Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al
Filing
1314
NOTICE by Samsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC(a Delaware limited liability company) re 1269 Order on Administrative Motion to File Under Seal,,, Order on Motion to Remove Incorrectly Filed Document, Order on Motion for Miscellaneous Relief, Unredacted Declaration of Mark Tung in Support of Samsung's Conditional Motion for Relief (Dkt. No. 953) (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 3, # 2 Exhibit 4, # 3 Exhibit 5, # 4 Exhibit 6, # 5 Exhibit 7, # 6 Exhibit 8, # 7 Exhibit 9, # 8 Exhibit 11, # 9 Exhibit 12, # 10 Exhibit 13, # 11 Exhibit 14, # 12 Exhibit 15)(Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 7/24/2012)
EXHIBIT 9
FILED UNDER SEAL
Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION
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APPLE INC., a California
corporation,
6
Plaintiff,
7
vs.
CASE NO.
11-cv-01846-LHK
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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., a Korean business
entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS
AMERICA,INC., a New York
corporation; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA,
LLC, a Delaware limited
liability company,
Defendants.
____________________________/
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H I G H L Y
C O N F I D E N T I A L
A T T O R N E Y S' E Y E S O N L Y
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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY JOHNSON, Ph.D.
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA
THURSDAY, April 26, 2012
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25
BY: ANDREA M. IGNACIO HOWARD, CSR, RPR, CCRR, CLR
CSR LICENSE NO. 9830
JOB NO. 49051
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MR. TUNG:
Mark Tung from Quinn Emanuel for
Samsung, and with me is Aileen Kim.
09:16
09:16
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4
JEFFREY JOHNSON,
5
having been sworn as a witness
6
by the Certified Shorthand Reporter,
7
testified as follows:
8
9
EXAMINATION BY MR. AHN
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MR. AHN:
11
THE WITNESS:
12
MR. AHN:
09:17
Good morning, Dr. Johnson.
09:17
Good morning.
09:17
We've already met off the record,
09:17
13
but I just want to introduce myself again.
14
Matthew Ahn.
15
representing Apple in this action.
16
ask you a few questions -- actually, probably more
09:17
17
than a few questions -- about the expert report that
09:17
18
you submitted for this case.
09:17
19
20
Q
My name is
09:17
I'm an attorney for Morrison & Foerster,
09:17
I'm just going to
09:17
I believe you were previously deposed in this
09:17
action approximately eight months ago; is that right?
09:17
21
A
In October.
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Q
In October.
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A
Uh-huh.
09:17
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Q
Okay.
09:17
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apply.
09:17
About six months ago?
09:17
So the same basic rules are going to
I'm going to ask you some questions.
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MR. AHN:
Q.
Did you discuss the contacts
10:33
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application for any specific device or just in
10:33
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general?
10:33
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A
Just in general.
10:33
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Q
Did you think it was necessary to discuss it
10:33
6
in the context of specific devices?
7
MR. TUNG:
8
THE WITNESS:
9
10
10:33
Objection; vague.
10:34
There were some questions about
10:34
what versions of the Android software corresponded to
10:34
what behaviors.
10:34
11
MR. AHN:
12
MR. TUNG:
13
THE WITNESS:
Q.
Can you expand on that.
Objection; vague.
10:34
10:34
Well, first of all, Mr. Kho
10:34
14
implemented the list functionality.
15
implementer of the contacts application.
The contacts
10:34
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application is built on the list control.
And so he
10:34
17
was the implementer of the list control that the
10:34
18
contact application uses.
10:34
19
He was not the
So he -- he could answer questions about how
10:34
10:35
20
the list functionality behaves but not about how --
10:35
21
there were -- there were specific questions about the
10:35
22
contact application itself that he was not able to
10:35
23
answer.
10:35
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25
MR. AHN:
Q.
What types of questions were
you asking him about the contacts application itself?
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MR. TUNG:
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THE WITNESS:
Objection; vague.
10:35
I was -- I was asking him
10:35
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functions about -- questions about the list
10:35
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functionality because that's what he implemented, and
10:35
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we were asking questions about the behavior of the
10:35
6
lists under certain -- you know, which -- which --
10:35
7
which versions of the software the list functionality
10:35
8
did exhibit certain behaviors.
10:35
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MR. AHN:
Q.
What were the specific issues
10:36
10
that you wanted to discuss with Mr. Kho?
11
the general operation of the contacts list, or were
10:36
12
there any specific cases or examples that you wanted
10:36
13
to discuss with him?
10:36
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MR. TUNG:
15
THE WITNESS:
Was it just
Objection; vague.
It was the general behavior,
10:36
10:36
10:36
16
the overall behavior of the list control that's used
10:36
17
in the contacts application.
10:36
18
There were also questions about the --
10:36
19
certain features, such as, for example, the -- the
10:36
20
blue glow and how that -- how that worked, and how the
10:36
21
implementation -- how -- how the implementation -- how
10:37
22
the implementation went or how -- how -- what -- what
10:37
23
it took in order to implement the blue glow, for
10:37
24
example.
10:37
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MR. AHN:
Q.
What is blue glow?
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A
Blue glow is a means of showing the -- the
10:37
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user that they've reached the end of the document
10:37
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that's an alternative to revealing the area beyond the
10:37
4
end of the document and then bouncing back.
10:37
5
blue glow is a -- is a blueish-shaded glow that
10:37
6
appears at the edge of the document that the user has
10:37
7
reached.
10:37
Q
10:38
8
9
So the
In your opinion, that's an alternative to
what I'm going to refer to as the '381's functionality
10:38
10
of showing an area beyond the edge and then snapping
10:38
11
back?
10:38
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A
Yes.
10:38
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Q
Do you think it's a good alternative?
10:38
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MR. TUNG:
10:38
15
THE WITNESS:
Objection; vague.
I think that it's -- I -- I
10:38
16
think that it's -- it's a workable alternative.
17
and with my user interface designer hat on, it's --
10:38
18
it's probably not as intuitive as the -- the bounce,
10:38
19
but it's certainly better than some other
10:38
20
alternatives.
10:38
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22
MR. AHN:
Q.
Why is it not as intuitive as
the bounce?
10:38
10:38
10:38
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MR. TUNG:
24
THE WITNESS:
25
I --
Objection; vague.
Well, because the user would
have to learn what the blue glow means.
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MR. AHN:
Dr. Balakrishnan referred to some
10:39
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user commentary that he had seen on the Internet
10:39
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regarding the blue glow functionality, and I believe
10:39
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he stated that many users were frustrated by it and
10:39
5
felt that it wasn't as good as the bounce or the snap
10:39
6
back functionality.
10:39
7
Q
Do you agree with Dr. Balakrishnan?
10:39
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A
Well, I haven't seen -- I didn't -- I -- I --
10:39
9
I guess I don't dis -- agree or disagree with his --
10:39
10
his conclusion because I haven't seen that Internet --
10:39
11
those Internet discussions.
10:39
12
discussions about the -- the device.
13
Q
I'm not aware of Internet
10:39
For the blue glow, you had mentioned that you
10:39
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had discussed with Mr. Kho the implementation of that
10:39
15
feature; is that correct?
10:40
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A
Yes.
10:40
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Q
Can you tell me what he told you in that
10:40
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regard.
19
how long it took him to develop that functionality?
Did he discuss just how it's implemented or
10:40
10:40
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A
He did discuss those things.
10:40
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Q
Okay.
10:40
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23
24
25
Let's take them in order.
Can you tell me about how it's implemented
inside of the contacts application.
A
What he said was that the -- that it
wasn't -- once they decided on what it -- what the
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behavior should -- sorry.
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Let me start over.
Once they decided what the behavior should
10:40
10:40
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be -- that is, the blue glow -- implementing it was
10:40
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not that difficult because what they decided to do was
10:40
5
to have the blue glow extend out from the edge the
10:40
6
same distance that the document would have pulled away
10:41
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from the edge.
10:41
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complex calculation, they didn't have to redo that
10:41
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calculation because it was already done.
10:41
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Q
And so although that calculation is a
Why is that a complex calculation?
10:41
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MR. TUNG:
10:41
12
THE WITNESS:
Objection; vague.
I don't actually know why it's
10:41
13
a complex calculation, but he said that it was a
10:41
14
complex calculation.
10:41
15
function that's related to the distance that the user
10:41
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has pulled his finger across the -- across the screen.
10:41
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And in order to -- the document doesn't -- doesn't
10:41
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follow necessarily the finger that -- that full --
10:42
19
that full distance.
10:42
20
He -- apparently, there's some
And so -- and so the blue glow -- similarly,
10:42
21
the amount that it -- that it extends out from the
10:42
22
edge of the document is based on this complex
10:42
23
function, but he didn't explain to me what the complex
10:42
24
function is.
10:42
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MR. AHN:
Q.
When you see the blue glow
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itself, is that something that's overlaid on top of
10:42
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the image?
10:42
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MR. TUNG:
4
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
10:42
5
MR. AHN:
How do you know that?
10:42
Objection; vague.
Q.
10:42
6
A
Because I saw it.
10:42
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Q
So it's not something that's, for lack of a
10:42
8
better way of describing it, becoming part of the
10:42
9
image, but it's just some type of layer that's over
10:42
the image?
10:42
10
11
MR. TUNG:
12
THE WITNESS:
Objection; vague.
Again, all I know is that the
10:42
10:42
13
blue glow appears in the image.
I don't know whether
10:43
14
it's implemented with layers because I didn't discuss
10:43
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that with Mr. Kho.
10:43
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17
MR. AHN:
Q.
Have you ever seen any source
code for the blue glow functionality?
10:43
10:43
18
A
No.
10:43
19
Q
You mentioned that the blue glow itself
10:43
20
appears from the edge of the photograph; is that
10:43
21
right?
Strike that.
10:43
You mentioned that the blue glow itself would
10:43
22
23
appear from the edge of, for example, the contacts
10:43
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list inside the contacts application; is that right?
10:43
25
MR. TUNG:
Objection; mischaracterizes
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testimony.
2
10:43
THE WITNESS:
It would -- it would -- it
10:43
3
would appear from either the top or the bottom of the
10:43
4
list, depending on which -- if you reached the top, it
10:43
5
would appear from the top edge.
10:43
6
bottom, it would appear from the bottom edge.
7
MR. AHN:
Q.
If you reached the
When you see the blue glow, are
10:44
10:44
8
you seeing something that's beyond the edge of the
10:44
9
contacts list?
10:44
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A
No.
10:44
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Q
What are you looking at, then?
10:44
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A
You're looking at the edge of the document or
10:44
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the edge of the contact list in this case, and you're
10:44
14
looking at a blue glow that is superimposed over
10:44
15
the -- the document edge.
10:44
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Q
You mentioned that Mr. Kho stated that it was
10:44
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not that difficult to implement the blue glow
10:44
18
functionality.
10:44
19
20
21
22
Did he give you a time frame for how long it
took them to design that functionality?
A
10:44
10:44
No, he did not give me a time frame.
10:44
What he said was that deciding -- given the
10:44
23
fact that there was a team of people working together
10:45
24
on -- on this, deciding what the behavior should be is
10:45
25
what took time.
10:45
And then once they decided,
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implementing it did not take much time at all.
10:45
2
Q
But he --
10:45
3
A
So there were difference -- there were
10:45
4
differences of opinion on the team as to what the
10:45
5
desired behavior should be.
10:45
6
7
Q
Did he tell you about any of those
10:45
differences of opinion?
10:45
8
A
No.
10:45
9
Q
And he didn't give you a specific time frame
10:45
10
for how long -- long it took to actually implement the
10:45
11
functionality; is that correct?
10:45
12
13
14
A
Correct.
He just said once they decided what
it should do, it was pretty easy to do.
Q
10:45
10:45
Do you agree with him on that?
10:45
15
MR. TUNG:
10:45
16
THE WITNESS:
Objection; vague.
I have no way of judging
10:45
17
whether he -- I just have to go by what he said.
18
don't -- I don't -- I didn't look at the source code.
10:46
19
I mean, he -- what he said was the blue glow extends
10:46
20
out the same distance that the document would have
10:46
21
pulled away from the edge.
10:46
22
sense that that wouldn't be difficult.
23
24
25
MR. AHN:
Q.
I
And so to me, it makes
Is there anything else that you
discussed with Mr. Kho?
A
Yes.
10:46
10:46
10:46
I remember asking him questions about
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whether there were any situations in which the
10:46
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contacts list moves in a two-dimensional way.
10:46
3
Q
What was his response?
10:46
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A
Well, he said several times during the course
10:46
5
of the conversation that he did not implement the
10:47
6
contacts application.
10:47
7
functionality, which has built into it a number of
10:47
8
different possible behaviors.
10:47
9
application doesn't make use of everything that the
10:47
list functionality can do.
10:47
10
He only implemented the list
But the contacts
11
One thing that we had noted before we talked
10:47
12
to him was that it is possible to take specific list
10:47
13
items -- in certain versions of the software, it's
10:47
14
possible to take specific list items and move them
10:47
15
left to right, but the list as a whole only moves up
10:47
16
and down.
10:47
17
So we were asking him about other possible
10:47
18
situations in which there could be two-dimensional
10:47
19
motion.
10:47
20
Q
Based on your own examination of the Samsung
10:47
21
products, were there any instances in which you could
10:47
22
have the contacts list move in two dimensions?
10:47
23
24
25
A
The list as a whole -- no.
10:48
As I said, we did notice situations in which
10:48
specific items could be moved left or right.
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person who is using the device to make that decision?
2
MR. TUNG:
10:57
Objection; mischaracterizes
10:57
3
testimony; beyond the scope; vague; incomplete
10:58
4
hypothetical.
10:58
5
6
THE WITNESS:
I think it would depend on
the designer of the application.
7
8
No.
MR. AHN:
Q.
10:58
10:58
Can you explain what you mean
by that.
10:58
9
10:58
MR. TUNG:
10
Same objections.
THE WITNESS:
10:58
The -- the -- the application
10:58
11
is designed so that -- so that its contents can be
10:58
12
organized in certain ways.
10:58
13
computer systems we have folders, and we can put
10:58
14
folders inside folders.
10:58
15
MR. AHN:
Q.
So, for example, in most
So let's try it this way:
If
10:58
16
you had a folder inside the gallery that said "photos
10:59
17
from college," and then there was another folder that
10:59
18
said "photos from law school," you would consider
10:59
19
those to be separate electronic documents; is that
10:59
20
correct?
10:59
21
MR. TUNG:
22
THE WITNESS:
Same -- same objections.
I would consider the folders to
10:59
10:59
23
be electronic documents, just as the photographs are
10:59
24
electronic documents.
10:59
25
MR. AHN:
Q.
And if you simply had an entire
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gallery full of images, and you looked at the first
10:59
2
column of that and said, "Well, the first column is
10:59
3
going to be my law school photographs; I consider that
10:59
4
to be a separate electronic document," would that make
10:59
5
sense to you?
10:59
6
7
8
9
MR. TUNG:
Objection; incomplete
hypothetical; beyond the scope; vague.
THE WITNESS:
Yeah, I -- I don't know.
10:59
10:59
10:59
That's a hard question to answer because -- because
10:59
10
regardless of what -- regardless of what the designer
10:59
11
does, sometimes the users have to make up -- they have
11:00
12
to use the device in such a way that allows them to do
11:00
13
things that the designer may not have thought of.
11:00
14
And so -- so, for example, I know from my own
11:00
15
case, when I'm putting together a slide show for my
11:00
16
friends, I'll make sure that I'll allot pictures for
11:00
17
certain -- certain subjects are first, and then other
11:00
18
ones follow.
11:00
19
So whether -- whether the photographs, let's
11:00
20
say, that describe the departure on my vacation are a
11:00
21
separate document from the photographs that describe
11:00
22
the -- that depict the return from my vacation are --
11:00
23
are separate documents, is sort of in the mind of me,
11:00
24
the user.
11:01
25
MR. AHN:
Q.
Did you discuss the blue glow
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functionality in the gallery with Mr. Nam?
A
Probably.
I'm not sure -- I'm not sure I
11:01
11:01
3
remember whether we discussed blue glow with Mr. Nam.
11:01
4
The main person I remember discussing it with
11:01
5
6
was Mr. Kho, but I'm not -- I'm not sure.
Q
Do you know if the blue glow is implemented
11:01
11:01
7
the same way in the contacts application as it is in
11:01
8
the gallery application?
11:01
9
A
I don't know.
11:01
10
Q
And you don't recall if you had that specific
11:01
11
discussion with Mr. Nam regarding blue glow and the
11:01
12
gallery; correct?
11:01
13
A
Correct.
11:01
14
Q
Was there anything else that you remember
11:01
15
discussing with Mr. Nam?
11:02
16
A
Hold still.
11:02
17
Q
What do you mean by that?
11:02
18
A
The behavior of the gallery in which, when
11:02
19
you drag an image -- when -- first of all, you have to
11:02
20
go into zoomed-in mode.
11:02
21
looking at a picture magnified.
22
So you're in zoomed-in mode,
11:02
And when you move your finger slowly and pan
11:02
23
the picture and the edge of the document is -- the
11:02
24
edge of the photograph is reached and you let go, it
11:02
25
does not bounce back necessarily to the -- so that
11:02
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the -- the area beyond the edge is -- is no longer
11:02
2
displayed.
It doesn't necessarily bounce back.
11:03
It -- if you are moving your finger slowly
11:03
3
4
enough and you let go, it just stays where -- exactly
11:03
5
where it is.
11:03
6
Q
You just said that it does not bounce back
7
necessarily.
8
instances it would and in some instances it wouldn't?
9
10
11
A
Does that mean in some instances --
You have to be moving your finger very slowly
and then let go for it not to bounce back.
11:03
11:03
11:03
11:03
What do you think of that functionality?
11:03
12
MR. TUNG:
11:03
13
MR. AHN:
14
Q
11:03
Objection; vague.
And by "that functionality," I'm
referring to the hold still functionality.
15
MR. TUNG:
16
THE WITNESS:
17
18
It's still -- still vague.
I -- what I thought of it was
that it -- let's see.
11:03
11:03
11:03
11:03
11:03
It's hard to -- it's hard to make it happen.
11:03
19
So my -- my feeling was that it would -- it has a
11:04
20
certain -- it has a certain purpose.
11:04
21
certain purpose behind it, but one would have to know
11:04
22
that purpose in order to -- to do it because if you
11:04
23
move your finger too fast, it does bounce back.
11:04
24
25
MR. AHN:
Q.
There's a
What is the purpose of having
that functionality?
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to the electronic document in order to be beyond its
13:39
2
edge.
13:39
3
4
MR. TUNG:
Objection; mischaracterizes
testimony.
5
13:39
13:39
THE WITNESS:
The -- the elements of Claim 1
13:39
6
of the patent say that in response to an edge of the
13:39
7
screen -- the edge of the document being reached, an
13:39
8
area beyond the edge of the document is displayed.
13:39
9
So what that means to me is at the time in
13:40
10
which some -- the area -- the edge of the document is
13:40
11
reached, something -- some software does something to
13:40
12
display something.
13:40
13
And what the software is doing is moving the
13:40
14
document aside and letting -- allowing the -- in the
13:40
15
Samsung phones, the -- the Samsung devices, it's
13:40
16
moving the -- the document aside and allowing the
13:40
17
background to be seen.
13:40
18
And that background was set up at the
13:40
19
beginning of the application, not in -- in response to
13:40
20
reaching the edge of the document.
13:40
21
22
23
MR. AHN:
Q.
Is the background being
displayed when you can't see it?
A
13:40
It's not being -- it's not being -- it's not
24
visible to the user.
25
not being displayed.
It's -- so in that sense, it's
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2
3
Q
Is there anything else you recall about your
discussion with Sun Young Kim from ThinkFree?
A
13:41
I think I just mentioned two things.
13:41
One is
13:41
4
that -- no.
5
remembered with my conversation with him is we just
13:41
6
discussed backgrounds.
13:41
Well, all I can remember -- all I
13:41
7
And the other thing that I remembered was
13:41
8
that I have seen source code for that -- for that
13:41
9
application, which I wasn't sure I had seen before.
13:41
10
11
12
Q
Is that listed in the materials considered in
your expert report?
A
13
13:41
13:41
Well, let's see.
Whoops.
Wrong document.
I don't see it listed here.
I think that it
13:41
13:42
14
mentions in -- in the report that I viewed source
13:42
15
code.
Let's see.
13:42
16
here.
Materials considered.
17
ThinkFree Office.
Let me just look
13:43
Right now, I'm not finding where it -- it
13:43
18
mentions in here that I considered some soft -- some
13:43
19
of the source code for ThinkFree Office.
13:43
20
Q
Okay.
Let me ask you a little bit more about
13:43
21
the blue glow design-around that we previously
13:43
22
discussed.
13:44
23
A
Uh-huh.
13:44
24
Q
Do you know when that functionality was
13:44
25
implemented in Samsung's devices?
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A
Well, based on my conversations with the
13:44
2
Samsung engineers, it was implemented sometime in -- I
13:44
3
believe they said it was sometime in 2011, but I --
13:44
4
I'm not -- I'm not really sure.
13:44
5
mention a specific date.
6
sort of time of the year.
7
I don't -- I'm not actually positive about that.
8
9
Q
I -- they didn't
They just talked about the
I think it was early 2011.
You yourself have not seen the source code
for that functionality; is that correct?
13:44
13:44
13:44
13:44
13:44
10
A
That's correct.
13:45
11
Q
You also offered the opinion that this is not
13:45
12
a particularly complicated design-around, that it was
13:45
13
fairly easy to implement; do you recall that?
13:45
14
A
Yes.
13:45
15
Q
Would implementing that type of functionality
13:45
16
be something that was well known by people in the
13:45
17
field?
13:45
18
MR. TUNG:
19
THE WITNESS:
20
MR. AHN:
21
Objection; vague.
People in what field?
In the field of user interfaces,
human/computer interaction.
22
MR. TUNG:
23
THE WITNESS:
13:45
13:45
13:45
13:45
Objection; vague.
Well, as I said, the Samsung
13:45
13:45
24
engineers told me that it took them a while to figure
13:45
25
out on -- among their team what the -- what the design
13:45
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should be.
2
that out, then they -- implementing it was not hard.
3
And then once they designed -- figured
I don't think there was any -- from that,
13:45
13:46
13:46
4
I -- I am saying that I am -- I'm getting that
13:46
5
there's -- there wasn't sort of a preconceived idea of
13:46
6
what the design should be.
13:46
7
experience before, I haven't seen that kind of a way
13:46
8
of indicating that you've reached the edge of a
13:46
9
document.
13:46
10
11
12
MR. AHN:
And certainly, in my
Let me turn now to the '381 patent
itself.
13:46
You previously testified that you had a
13:46
13
general understanding what the patent was about, and I
13:46
14
think you said that it offered visual feedback
13:46
15
regarding reaching the end of an electronic document;
13:46
16
is that accurate?
13:46
17
Q
13:46
A
Yes.
It's a patent about displaying -- yes.
13:46
18
It's giving users visual feedback when they reach the
13:47
19
edge of a -- edge of a document.
13:47
20
21
Q
Do you know what problem the '381 patent was
trying to solve?
13:47
13:47
22
MR. TUNG:
23
THE WITNESS:
Objection; vague.
Well, it says in the
13:47
13:47
24
specification it was trying to solve -- or in the --
13:47
25
in the -- in the beginning of the patent, in the
13:47
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introduction, it says that it's trying to solve the
13:47
2
problem of the user knowing that they received --
13:47
3
reached the end of the document.
13:47
4
5
MR. AHN:
Q.
Do you think that was an issue
prior to the '381 patent?
13:47
13:47
6
A
Yes.
13:47
7
Q
Why?
13:47
8
A
Because users would reach ends of documents
13:47
9
10
11
and need some feedback that they reached the end.
Q
Do you recall what types of feedback or lack
of feedback that existed prior to the '381 patent?
12
13
13:47
MR. TUNG:
13:47
Objection; vague and beyond the
13:47
scope.
14
13:47
13:47
THE WITNESS:
Well, prior to the '381 patent,
13:47
I mean, prior to bounce, there were --
13:48
15
I'm not sure.
16
there was -- there were user interfaces that did
13:48
17
nothing, that basically did a hard stop.
13:48
18
There -- I don't know what other -- you know,
13:48
19
typically in a word processor, let's say Microsoft
13:48
20
Word, when you reach the end of the document, it
13:48
21
stops.
13:48
22
But you weren't scrolling by dragging your
13:48
23
finger.
24
the side of the screen, and that was usually in the
13:48
25
opposite direction that the document was moving.
13:48
You were scrolling by pulling a scroll bar on
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13:48
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A
An edge that is at the extreme -- or a
16:00
2
scrollable edge is actually at the -- at the edge of
16:00
3
an electronic document in the -- that's -- I guess the
16:00
4
edge is perpendicular to the direction of movement of
16:00
5
the -- of the document, you know.
16:00
6
case, it's perpendicular to the edge.
7
is -- can move in an unconstrained way, then some of
16:00
8
the -- then all of the edges are scrollable edges,
16:00
9
really.
16:00
10
MR. AHN:
11
In the constrained
If the document
marked as Exhibit No. 4.
12
13
I'm going to hand you what I've
for identification.)
THE WITNESS:
15
MR. AHN:
16
No.
16:01
16:01
So are we through with this?
16:01
You can leave that open in
16:01
front of you.
16:01
17
THE WITNESS:
18
MR. AHN:
19
Exhibit 4 is just a screen capture from the
20
16:01
16:01
(Document marked J. Johnson Exhibit 4
14
16:00
Okay.
16:01
I'll come back to it.
New York Times homepage from yesterday.
16:01
16:01
16:01
21
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
16:01
22
MR. AHN:
Can you tell me in Exhibit 4
16:01
23
24
25
Q.
what you would consider to be the scrollable edges.
MR. TUNG:
16:01
So I'll object that this is a -- a
16:01
printout on a piece of paper, and you're asking about
16:01
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edges in the context of the '381 document --
16:01
2
'381 patent.
16:01
3
4
MR. AHN:
Q
Let me give you some context.
16:01
This is just a screen capture of Internet
16:01
5
Explorer showing the New York Times homepage.
6
curious as to, if you were looking at this on the
16:02
7
screen of a computer, what you would consider to be a
16:02
8
scrollable edge?
16:02
9
10
11
MR. TUNG:
And I'm
So I'll still make the same
objection.
16:01
16:02
16:02
THE WITNESS:
Yeah, it would be -- it would
16:02
12
be nicer if this picture had -- had the browser also
16:02
13
shown in it so that I could see something about
16:02
14
where -- you know, how the browser is.
16:02
15
But assuming that the browser is oriented
16:02
16
vertically on the page the same way that this is, then
16:02
17
I would consider scrollable edges to be the top and
16:02
18
the bottom because we are viewing the entire width of
16:02
19
the page.
16:02
20
And, therefore, the -- when -- the way the
16:02
21
browser operates is that it's constrained when you're
16:02
22
looking at the -- when you're zoomed out, to me.
16:02
23
24
25
And so the scrollable edges are the top and
the bottom.
MR. AHN:
16:02
16:02
And, in fact, if this were being
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displayed on one of the accused Samsung products with
16:03
2
blue glow in it, if you tried to go up and down, you
16:03
3
would actually see the blue glow appear from the top
16:03
4
or the bottom, depending on the direction of the
16:03
5
scroll; is that correct?
16:03
MR. TUNG:
Objection; incomplete
16:03
I'll just say same objections.
16:03
6
7
hypothetical.
8
9
THE WITNESS:
If you are scrolling the page
16:03
down and you reach the top, then the blue glow would
16:03
10
appear from the top edge.
If you're scrolling up and
16:03
11
you reach the bottom, then the blue glow would appear
16:03
12
from the bottom edge.
16:03
13
MR. AHN:
Q.
What about the photograph
14
towards the center of the page?
15
that an electronic document?
Would you consider
16:03
16:03
16:03
16
A
That's a document inside a document, yes.
16:03
17
Q
So in this example, would you consider the
16:03
18
overall New York Times page as the electronic
16:03
19
document, with other electronic documents embedded in
16:03
20
it?
16:03
21
A
Well, I -- I suppose so.
Yes, I would.
16:03
22
Balakrishnan has said in his statement that a photo --
16:04
23
photographs are electronic documents, so -- and I
16:04
24
agree with him.
16:04
25
Q
Would you consider the edges of the
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photograph to be scrollable edges in this example?
2
MR. TUNG:
3
THE WITNESS:
Same -- same objection.
Well, this sort of depends
16:04
16:04
16:04
4
on -- on the application because in some applications,
16:04
5
as we've seen, there is -- there is snap in between
16:04
6
documents in a -- an electronic -- in documents that
16:04
7
are contained in an electronic document; that is to
16:04
8
say, the subordinate documents.
16:04
9
between them, and in other applications there isn't
16:05
any such snap.
16:05
10
There is snap in
11
So, for example, in ThinkFree Office, if it's
16:05
12
in the vertical mode, there is no snap in between any
16:05
13
pages.
16:05
14
is snap in ThinkFree Office.
15
But if it's in the horizontal mode, then there
16:05
And similarly, in this browser, there --
16:05
16
there isn't -- there isn't -- there isn't snap between
16:05
17
the sub -- subdocuments of the main document.
16:05
18
Now, first of all, I will say that even if
16:05
19
there were snap between subordinate documents in a
16:05
20
browser, I wouldn't expect that snap to ever appear or
16:05
21
to be noticeable unless I were to zoom that -- that --
16:06
22
zoom the document display up such that the photograph
16:06
23
filled the entire display.
16:06
24
25
You know, I have seen other applications in
which if I -- if I zoomed up so the page was looking
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THE WITNESS:
2
shares some characteristics.
3
form factor is for the Apple phone.
4
Well, it -- like I said, it
I don't know what the
17:28
17:28
17:28
For example, the iPhone -- I don't know if
17:28
5
they're wider than this is, you know.
6
there's a certain aspect ratio here.
I don't know if
17:28
7
the iPhone is the same aspect ratio.
But it does
17:29
8
share some characteristics of an iPhone, yes.
9
MR. AHN:
In other words,
You can go ahead and power it on.
17:28
17:29
17:29
10
And if you want to go ahead and examine the build
17:29
11
information, that's fine.
17:29
12
THE WITNESS:
It is hardware version i500.04.
13
Mode No. SCH-i500.
14
2.1.
15
Kernel version 2.6.29, and Build No. SCH-i500.DJ20.
Update 1.
16
MR. AHN:
Formula Version Firmware Version
Baseband version S:I500.04K.DJ20.
Q.
I just want to direct your
17:29
17:29
17:29
17:30
17:30
17
attention to page 22 of your report.
18
the top, in row number 12, it states the Galaxy S
17:30
19
Showcase i500, and then it states Android Version
17:30
20
2.3.5; do you see that?
17:30
At the table at
17:30
21
A
I see that.
17:30
22
Q
That's a different version than the Galaxy S
17:30
23
Showcase that's been marked as Exhibit 8; correct?
17:30
24
A
Correct.
17:30
25
Q
The opinions that you've expressed about the
17:30
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Galaxy S Showcase that you examined are not
17:30
2
necessarily applicable to the Galaxy S Showcase that
17:31
3
is Exhibit 8; correct?
17:31
4
A
That's correct.
17:31
5
Q
Go ahead and open up the Gallery application
17:31
6
on that phone.
7
document around.
8
And go ahead and try moving the
17:31
17:31
Do you see the blue glow functionality?
17:31
9
A
No.
17:31
10
Q
Taking a look at your report again, on
17:31
11
page 22, the box that is checked is the fourth
17:31
12
non-infringement position, and looking at page 23 of
17:31
13
your report, the fourth non-infringement position is
17:31
14
blue glow; is that right?
17:32
15
A
Correct.
17:32
16
Q
So even if your opinion regarding
17:32
17
non-infringement on the Galaxy S Showcase phone that
17:32
18
you examined was based on the fact that it had the
17:32
19
blue glow functionality, that opinion does not apply
17:32
20
to the Galaxy S Showcase phone that is Exhibit 8;
17:32
21
correct?
17:32
22
A
Correct.
17:32
23
Q
You can go ahead and set that aside.
17:32
Why don't we take a quick break.
17:32
24
25
I think I'm
just about finished
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2
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
The time is 5:33 p.m., and
we are off the record.
17:32
3
(Recess taken.)
4
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
5
7
17:32
The time is 5:43 p.m., and
we are on the record.
6
MR. AHN:
Q.
17:32
17:42
17:42
Dr. Johnson, have you been
17:42
asked to testify at the trial of this case?
17:42
8
A
Not yet.
17:42
9
Q
Is it your understanding that you intend to
17:42
10
11
12
13
14
testify at trial in this case?
A
I don't know.
17:42
That -- I guess it's a
17:43
possibility, but I don't really know.
MR. AHN:
17:43
Thank you for your time today.
I
have no further questions.
17:43
15
17:43
16
17
17:43
EXAMINATION BY MR. TUNG
MR. TUNG:
17:43
So I have a couple of questions,
18
and if it's okay, I'll just proceed.
19
were on Exhibit 8.
So I think we
17:43
17:43
17:43
20
Can you mark this as Exhibit 9.
17:43
21
THE WITNESS:
It's the expert report.
17:43
22
(Document marked J. Johnson Exhibit 9
17:43
23
24
25
for identification.)
MR. TUNG:
17:43
And then mark this one as
Exhibit 10.
17:43
17:43
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877-702-9580
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