Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 278

Reply Declaration of Ravin Balakrishnan, Ph.D. in Support of #86 Apple's Motion for Preliminary Injunction filed by Apple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit A - Manual Filing Notification, #2 Exhibit B - Manual Filing Notification, #3 Exhibit C - Manual Filing Notification, #4 Exhibit D, #5 Exhibit E, #6 Exhibit F, #7 Exhibit G, #8 Exhibit H, #9 Exhibit I, #10 Exhibit J, #11 Exhibit K, #12 Exhibit L, #13 Exhibit M, #14 Exhibit N, #15 Exhibit O)(Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 9/30/2011) Modified on 10/3/2011 linking entry to document #86 EXHIBIT A, B AND C HAVE NOT BEEN MANUALLY SUBMITTED TO THE CLERK'S OFFICE FOR FILING (dhm, COURT STAFF).

EXHIBIT J

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION

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APPLE INC., A CALIFORNIA
CORPORATION,
PLAINTIFF,

:
:
:

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:
: CASE NO.
: 11-CV-01846-LHK
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS, CO.,
:
LTD., A KOREAN BUSINESS
:
ENTITY; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS :
AMERICA, INC., A NEW YORK
:
CORPORATION; SAMSUNG
:
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA, :
LLC, A DELAWARE LIMITED
:
LIABILITY COMPANY,
:
VS.

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DEFENDANTS
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DEPOSITION OF ANDRIES VAN DAM, an Expert
Witness in the above-entitled cause, taken on
behalf of the Plaintiff, before Barbara
Warner, RPR, Notary Public in and for the
State of Rhode Island, at the offices of
Allied Court Reporters, 115 Phenix Avenue,
Cranston, RI, on September 14, 2011
at 9:30 A.M.

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Job Number: 41901
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APPEARANCES:
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FOR THE PLAINTIFF APPLE INC.:
MORRISON & FOERSTER
BY: RICHARD S.J. HUNG, ESQ.
BY: DEOK KEUN MATTHEW AHN, ESQ.
425 MARKET STREET
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94105

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FOR THE DEFENDANTS SAMSUNG:
QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART OLIVER & HEDGES
BY: TODD M. BRIGGS, ESQ.
BY: AARON KAUFMAN, ESQ.
555 TWIN DOLPHIN DRIVE
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA 94065

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ALSO PRESENT:
MIKE HENRIQUES, VIDEOGRAPHER

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this paragraph you refer to a number of

2

materials, including the patent, the Bas

3

Ording patent, the prosecution file history,

4

the reexamination file history, and

5

references cited therein.

6

A. Yes, I do.

7

Q.

Do you see that?

When you refer to referring to the

8

prosecution history, how did you review it,

9

and by that, I mean what did you review?

10

A. I reviewed a file that had been sent to

11

me, which was the wrapper, in effect, the

12

complete fill history, and I went through

13

that.

14

Q.

15
16

Did you also review the reexam file history?
A. I did, in the same way.

Q.

There is a reference to the reference cited

17

therein, and that's the last clause of that

18

sentence in paragraph 19.

19

A. Yes, I see it.

20

Q.

I was slightly confused as to what that was

21

modifying.

Is that references cited therein

22

modifying the reexamination file history, the

23

prosecution file history, the patent, and/or

24

all three?

25

A. You are talking about a possible ambiguity

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2

in the materials cited?
Q.

I apologize.

In paragraph 19, the last

3

clause says, And the references cited

4

therein, at line 25.

5

A. To be more precise, I did not go through

6

the references cited by the patent examiner.

7

Q.

I am handing you what has been previously

8

marked as Ording Exhibit 71.

9

believe we both referred to as the Ording

10

patent, correct?

11

A. Yes.

12

This is what I

of our discussion today.

13

Q.

This is the '381, which is the basis

If you look at the first two pages of the

14

Ording patent, you will see that there are

15

a -- it is a long list of U.S. patent

16

documents, and also foreign patent documents,

17

and other publications.

18

A. I do.

19

Q.

Do you see that?

The references that were cited by the

20

examiner, I am assuming that by that you are

21

referring to the references that have an

22

asterisk next to them, correct?

23

A. Sorry, I'm having a little trouble reading

24

this because the print is so small.

25

file histories, I recall there are references

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are off the record.

2

(OFF THE RECORD)

3

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

4
5

11:24 a.m., we

are back on the record.
Q.

Professor van Dam, we asked if you could

6

demonstrate beginning from the start screen

7

on 1950 LaunchTile your participation for

8

Claim 1 with respect to this device.

9

A. I am about to start doing that with the

10

caveat that because I suffer from familial

11

tremor, and especially in my dominant hand,

12

it will be a little shaky because there are

13

very few pixels on the screen.

14

sensitive to a single pixel deviation, so it

15

may take me several tries to show you what I

16

want to show you.

17

It is very

In the overview screen, which is

18

the start screen for LaunchTile, we see an

19

array of 6 x 6 individual tiles.

20

in on those individual tiles, you can pick a

21

zone by pushing this blue chrome button that

22

lets you do that.

23

into one of the four tiles comprising the

24

zone by tapping on it.

25

And to come

Then you can further zoom

I have now zoomed on the mail

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file, and I can scroll this.

2

it is a little laggy in its response.

3

am doing now is to say that in the first

4

example, it is the mail file with all of the

5

headers and this constitutes the electric

6

document.

7

Q.

And you can see
What I

If I could interrupt you, if you could help

8

us by keeping it upright then the video

9

camera will be able to record it.

10

A. As you can see, the shaking will make that

11

hard, especially since I am now sitting in a

12

very awkward angle to it, which makes it hard

13

to manipulate.

14

So I am doing a scroll, and as you

15

can see, I have clearly reached the edge of

16

the document here because I have the solid

17

gray area, so I am establishing the document

18

does, in fact, have an edge and there is area

19

beyond the edge.

20

But for our example, we are going

21

to stop short of having completely scrolled

22

off.

23

particular start state, this is the first

24

portion of the document referred to in Claim

25

1.

And I am now going to say in this

And now I'm going to have the device

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detect, and I'm going to scroll in the

2

vertical direction upwards, and here I have a

3

different portion, which is the second

4

portion.

5

And now I'm going to scroll a

6

little more and there's even less of the mail

7

file showing.

8

Catherine Thompson, which is white and which

9

is differentiated from Catherine Thompson by

In fact, there is area below

10

a very thin, single pixel lines of

11

demarcation.

12

Q.

Could you hold that up?

Thank you.

13

A. Now, when I let go, it snaps back.

14

movement is subtle and I don't know whether

15

you caught it.

16

Q.

The

Do you want me to repeat it?

Please.

17

A. Okay.

18

starting position, the bottom edge of the

19

mail file.

20

so until I am just at Sarah Carlson, like so.

21

And now when I let go, it bounces back and I

22

see yet a different view of the mail file

23

where there is nothing showing beyond the

24

edge that I saw previously.

25

So I'm near the edge for my

I'm not going to scroll up like

I have the bottom of the mail file

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in its entirety and it is different from

2

first, second and third portions.

3

Q.

What if we exceed the threshold?

4

A. If we exceed the threshold, then we don't

5

get the bounce-back effect.

6

reversing of the direction or different

7

direction, which is all the claim calls for,

8

but bounce-back typically has this notion of

9

the opposite direction.

There is no

You are simply going

10

to scroll the file so that most of it and

11

eventually all of it becomes this gray no

12

man's land.

13

Q.

In which case there is no snap-back, correct?

14

A. There is no snap-back in any of the prior

15

art, or I believe the patent itself and its

16

specification if you go beyond a certain

17

threshold.

18

Q.

Looking at the blue button with the blue

19

bar --

20

A. That's the chrome I was referring to

21

earlier.

22

Q.

That chrome is adjustable on the 1950,

23

correct?

24

A. It is.

25

the E-mail application, I can move it up and

Some of it is.

In particular, in

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and in particular, I tried to be consistent

2

with how I saw Professor Balakrishnan and

3

Apple itself were interpreting the term,

4

using the term in their respective writings.

5

Q.

Putting aside any construction that you

6

understood or believed Apple to be applying,

7

or Dr. Balakrishnan to be applying, did you

8

personally adopt or arrive at any other

9

constructions besides those that you believed

10

Apple or Dr. Balakrishnan to be applying?

11

A. You mean besides the electronic document,

12

were there other terms used in '381?

13

Q.

Yes.

14

A. Sure.

There are plenty of terms that were

15

used.

16

without being rigorously defined.

17

example, even such a simple thing as

18

direction is not defined and one could spend

19

a lot of time talking about what is meant by

20

direction, and what does and does not

21

constitute the same direction.

I said it informally in the patent
For

22

There is a dependent claim which

23

talks about opposite direction, what is the

24

meaning of opposite.

25

meaning, or a looser one.

Is it a mathematical
That is an example

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of a term that I didn't struggle with because

2

I took it in its common-sense meaning.

3

Q.

If you could help to understand the

4

common-sense meaning with respect to

5

direction, what did you understand the

6

common-sense meaning of direction to be?

7

A. In the case of my examples, clearly I

8

thought in terms of the predominantly

9

horizontal movement in the case of the zones

10

example, and a vertical direction in the case

11

of scrolling, as exemplified by the mail

12

application.

13

Q.

When you are thinking about the vertical

14

direction in the case of scrolling for the

15

mail application, did you understand that to

16

cover a predominantly vertical movement?

17

A. I did.

18

Q.

I don't want to fixate on this, because I

19

understand that you have a tremor.

20

want to ask about the tremor.

21

A. You can, please.

22

Q.

I didn't

Meaning if you were drawing a line from point

23

A to point B, whether on the table right now

24

with a permanent marker, or on a piece of

25

paper, do you believe that you could draw a

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portions, but under the section panning

2

techniques and so on, there is talk about the

3

zoom space animates to a line, so there's a

4

lot of evidence in here about the fact that

5

there are alignment or snapping techniques

6

that are being used.

7

with all of the elements that we go through

8

for Claim 1 is not that explicit in here.

9

Q.

Particular sequence

When you prepared your declaration, you did

10

not rely on this reference as a anticipatory

11

reference, correct?

12

A. I didn't use the paper as a anticipatory

13

reference because I thought the code was a

14

much stronger antecedent.

15

Q.

As a person of skill in the art who is

16

opining on the anticipation of the '381

17

patent, do you agree that this reference,

18

Exhibit 134, the AppLens and LaunchTile tile

19

article, does not anticipate the claims of

20

the '381 patent?

21

MR. BRIGGS:

Object to the form.

22

Mischaracterizes prior testimony.

23

A. In each and every detail of the claim

24

language, it is not literally written out in

25

a step-by-step manner.

It doesn't talk about

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portions in particular.

2

here enough information to say, is that a

3

particular instance of behavior described in

4

here, absolutely, but I think the combination

5

of the code and the behavior that the code

6

implements, plus the paper, makes for the

7

complete case.

8
9

Q.

So one could find in

I'm specifically excluding the code and the
behavior that the code implements.

I'm only

10

talking about the paper.

As you sit here

11

today, as a person who reviewed this

12

reference and has made, offered, opinions on

13

the '381 patent claims thereof are

14

anticipated by LaunchTile and XNav, do you

15

believe that this reference before you,

16

Exhibit 134, anticipates the claims of the

17

Bas Ording '381 patent?

18

A. If you hand-simulate the entire panning

19

techniques paragraph, and you see that

20

there's always an attempt to snap to the

21

underlying grid, and you ask yourself the

22

question, what happens if we overscroll a

23

little, and we peak into the next zone after

24

having seen the gray border area, what would

25

happen, the answer unambiguously is it snaps

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of overshooting.

2

But LaunchTile also demonstrates

3

effectively the same behavior when you

4

undershoot.

5

wanted to say that to a person of ordinary

6

skill in the art, i.e., somebody familiar

7

with interaction techniques the notion of

8

gravity grids, alignment to grid lines is

9

absolutely bread and butter.

10

Q.

I'm sorry to be verbose, but I

Do you see each and every limitation of Claim

11

1 expressed expressly disclosed in this

12

reference?

13

A. No.

14

Claim 1 is very specific about these portions

15

and it makes distinctions about one being

16

smaller than the other and distinctions about

17

they cannot be the same.

18

is absent here.

19

system like LaunchTile, and you have a

20

gravity grid, an alignment grid and you think

21

about what has to happen during alignment,

22

and you then calculate what pixels are going

23

to be visible, I think it is all totally

24

deducible.

25

Q.

And the reason I don't is because

And that language

But, again, if you take a

That's what I am asking, that you exclude the

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LaunchTile system as implemented, the

2

LaunchTile code, the XNav code, I'm simply

3

asking if you look at this document, you

4

would agree, with me, wouldn't you, that this

5

document, 134 before you, does not expressly

6

disclose each and every limitation as recited

7

in Claim 1 of the Bas Ording '381 patent?

8

A. Because that language include statements

9

about portions of the electronic document and

10

this does not use that terminology, this does

11

not explicitly disclose.

12

my qualifier.

13

MR. HUNG:

14

Explicitly, that is

Why don't we go off the

record, because he needs to change the tape.

15

THE WITNESS:

16

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

17

That's fine.
3:15 p.m., we

are going off the record.

18

(OFF THE RECORD)

19

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

20
21

3:28 p.m., we

are back on the record.
Q.

Dr. van Dam, in reviewing the Bederson

22

declaration, attached to that declaration

23

were a couple of videos.

24

viewing those?

25

A. No, I do not.

Do you recall

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Q.

So I take it that you don't have an opinion

2

as to whether the videos that were attached

3

to his declaration independently anticipate

4

the claims of the '381 patent or not?

5

A. Correct.

6

Q.

In the last exhibit that was before you,

7

Exhibit A, that was, there's a reference to a

8

CHI, C-H-I, conference in Portland, Oregon.

9

Do you see that on the very first page?

10
11

A. Yes.
Q.

12
13

A. I did not.
Q.

14
15

Did you attend that conference?

Have you ever heard of the phrase on rails?
A. I have.

Q.

In connection with graphical user interface?

16

A. Until I started working on this case, I

17

hadn't recalled the use of that term.

18

Q.

When you saw that phrase in connection with,

19

I take it, your review of literature for this

20

case, what did you understand that phrase to

21

mean?

22

A. Aligned.

23

of having an underlying grid of some kind and

24

forcing the object that you are manipulating

25

to be aligned.

Again, the standard vocabulary

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reason to align an object to a grid is to

2

ensure that a user knows where they are in a

3

document?

4

A. It's one use of alignment.

5

alignment would be to build a composite and

6

you want to obey certain layout principles.

7

For example, you would use a Swiss grid,

8

which is a standard design technique for

9

layout used in newspapers and magazines.

Other use of

And

10

many of our ideas about user interfaces come

11

from the graphical design world.

12

Q.

Have you ever worked with technologies that

13

auto-center objects on a screen?

14

MR. BRIGGS:

Objection.

Vague.

15

A. As I understand you without your having

16

define what you mean by object, I will impose

17

my own interpretation and say that in the

18

earliest Word and Document and Hypertext

19

processing systems that I helped design, and

20

that my students implemented, we had the

21

notion of centering objects, such as titles,

22

headings, paragraphs.

23

within a hierarchical compound document.

24

I am answer in the affirmative.

25

Q.

Thank you.

Those are all objects
So

Let's focus on documents now, and

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documents as discussed in the '381 patent.

2

You would agree with me, wouldn't you, that

3

LaunchTile, when one is depicting the 2 x 2

4

zone, and when one moves off as to display a

5

portion other than the 2 x 2 zone, when you

6

release the 2 x 2 zone, it sends, correct?

7

A. Correct, by zone, and that design choice

8

is mentioned in here.

9

Q.

And, in fact, that is an express design

10

purpose for LaunchTile?

11

A. Correct.

12

Q.

And the functionality for the 2 x 2 zone, the

13

snap functional for 2 x 2 zone is auto center

14

on a zone?

15

A. Um-hum.

16

Q.

And we saw that same functionality not just

17

with the 2 x 2 zone example, your second

18

example in your declaration, but also with

19

the 2 x 4, correct?

20

A. The underlying alignment grid tries always

21

to make zones fit to that grid.

22

Q.

And, in fact, we see this with respect to the

23

overscrolling or overpanning situation in

24

LaunchTile or in XNav, correct?

25

A. Correct.

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row within the highlight displayed on the

2

device, correct?

3

MR. BRIGGS:

Objection.

4

Foundation.

5

A. Yeah, I don't think that that behavior

6

necessarily implies the existence, even of a

7

highlight.

8

useful feature for the reader of the mail

9

list is that you don't have half a row of

You could simply say that a

10

some header exhibited.

11

exhibit whole rows.

12

it is aesthetically more pleasing.

13

like to see things cut off, and most people

14

don't.

15

Q.

You always want to

You don't have to, but
I don't

Putting aside what you characterized as the

16

edge example in the E-mail list, I want to

17

exclude that.

18

occur with respect to the highlight, in which

19

a header row, upon release of the finger or

20

stylist device, then caused the header row to

21

snap or bounce into the highlight?

22

A. Um-hum.

23

Q.

When we saw the snap effect

A benefit of that functionality is to center

24

the header row within the highlight, correct?

25

A. I think that's a reasonable

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interpretation.

2

functionality could exist independent of any

3

highlighting.

4

highlighting, and it still would be useful to

5

show a list without any line being cut off in

6

the middle.

7

Q.

But I repeat myself, that

You could remove the

As we saw this morning, whenever the

8

snap-back effect occurred in a list, in the

9

E-mail list example, whether for XNav or

10

LaunchTile, it always caused the snap-back of

11

a header row into the highlight, correct?

12

A. We saw that, but I didn't focus on that,

13

and it's not mentioned in my declaration,

14

because I didn't do that analysis relative to

15

the selection bar.

16

edge to follow the patent claim language.

17

Q.

I did it relative to the

We discussed this morning that you did not

18

review the source code, or you don't have an

19

opinion on the source code as you sit here

20

today relating to a snap effect that may

21

occur with respect to the highlighted bar?

22

A. That's correct.

23

MR. HUNG:

We don't need to

24

videotape this, although let's mark it as an

25

exhibit, just so we know it was marked.

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marked as van Dam Exhibit 135 the Sony with

2

XNav product to which you and I discussed

3

this morning.

4

THE WITNESS:

5
6

You can take that.
Thank you.

(EXHIBIT 135 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION)
Q.

As I have handed it to you, you will see the

7

entire E-mail list is displayed on the page?

8

A. Um-hum.

9

Q.

10
11

With a white portion above the top E-mail?
A. Right.

Q.

And that the highlight bar has been

12

positioned at the very top of that page.

13

you see that?

14

A. Okay.

15

highlight bar, I will take your word for it.

16

It is not the border of that window.

17

the highlight part, you say, so it is not

18

highlighting any subject header at this

19

point.

20

Q.

Correct.

Do

If you tell me that is the

It is

When you scroll that list right

21

now, if you were to scroll the list, no

22

bounce effect occurs; isn't that right?

23

A. It just did.

24

opposite direction.

25

header that came into view under the

No, not a bounce in the
It did center the first

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2

highlight bar.
Q.

So to make sure I can verbally characterize

3

what you just saw, to start, what you were

4

seeing on the screen was an E-mail list with

5

a white, a blank white portion above the top

6

list E-mail?

7

A. Yes.

8

Q.

9

And a blue highlight at the very top of the
display, correct?

10

A. All I can say is that I am seeing a blue

11

bar.

12

fact that it is, in fact, the highlight bar.

13

Q.

I would have to take your word for the

And when you made small adjustments in the

14

pixel range, 1, 2, 3 pixel range of the list,

15

it did not bounce?

16

A. There was no snapping behavior.

17

able to move the list, and then when I got

18

close to the bar, it sucked in the full

19

header, so it did the alignment that you

20

talked about.

21

That is the symmetric attraction for

22

undershoot.

23

Q.

I was

But that's not a bounce-back.

The alignment in the example that you just

24

attempted, the action that you just

25

performed, the alignment was with respect to

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the blue highlight and not with respect to

2

the edge of the E-mail list as depicted,

3

correct?

4

A. I can't testify to that.

5

certainly did align with the blue bar, and if

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the blue bar aligns with the headers, then by

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definition, the header aligns to the blue

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bar.

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whether underlying the logic even cares about

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the blue bar, or whether it's simply saying I

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have the available display space.

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gridded.

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I'm aligning so that each other fits centered

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in its row.

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That's tautological.

I saw that it

But I don't know

It is

It has row upon row and row, and

You could have that logic and

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exactly the same behavior, but there is no

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attempt in the code to align it with the blue

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bar.

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effect, and I can't tell them apart by

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looking at the visual behavior.

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Q.

It's sort of confusing cause and

Without looking at the code?

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A. Without looking at the code, exactly.

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is absolutely centering headers in a row of

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the underlying grid.

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Q.

It

I want to make sure that I am understanding

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there are any number of ways to do it.
Q.

What about further down in the middle column

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where you see the phrase, New Day, New Rulers

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in Afghanistan; do you see that?

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A. Can you show me, it would be faster?

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Q.

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At the very bottom of the page right here.
A. Yes, those links.

Q.

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If one had positioned the A wall browser
window in this figure, figure 10 of the Lira

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PCT application, over that New Day, New

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Rulers in Afghanistan text, how would one

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know when they had moved the window beyond

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the edge of the column?

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A. One wouldn't know for sure, because it

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depends on the layout for this column.

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the fact that you have wrapping to the next

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line might give you a clue that you were

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about to go over the column boundary,

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particularly if you saw a solid, gray area on

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the right.

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Q.

But

Assuming --

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A. I'm sorry, but let me make a point that

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applies to all of your questions.

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clues, but it is mostly in the motion as you

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move around that you get a sense of where you

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are, and the snapping behavior helps with

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that.

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are queues.

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ants, or something, demarcation in these

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implementations that tells you that you are

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about to go off the edge.

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that prevents you from having that.

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these references are silent on that.

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Q.

The visual queues are just that, they
There is no definitive Marching

There is nothing
All of

What was the checkerboard exhibit to your

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right, what number was that?

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A. That was 133.

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Q.

For Exhibit 133, if we removed all of black

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from that page and simply had a bright red

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square --

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A. You mean this red square?

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Q.

Correct.

The entire page was covered with

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the red square, there were no visual

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indicators at all as to separate anything on

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that page in that square, could there be

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multiple documents on that page?

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A. In that particular case, that's kind of a

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reductural ad absurdum example, because it is

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a solid field of red.

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absolutely.

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have rows, so you could define, even on the

You could say,

You can have columns.

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follow-up, there is follow-up.

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appreciate your time, Dr. van Dam.

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are happy to close the deposition now.

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MR. BRIGGS:

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THE WITNESS:

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Great.

But I
And we

Thanks.

Very good.

Thank

you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

It is 6 p.m.,

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we are off the record.

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videotaped deposition of Andries van Dam on

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This concludes the

September 14, 2011.
(DEPOSITION CONCLUDED AT 6:00 P.M.)

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C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Barbara Warner, a Notary Public in
and for the State of Rhode Island, duly
commissioned and qualified to administer
oaths, do hereby certify that the foreging
Deposition of Andries van Dam, a Witness in
the above-entitled cause, was taken before me
on behalf of the Plaintiff, at the offices of
Allied Court Reporters, 115 Phenix Avenue,
Cranston, Rhode Island on September 14, 2011
at 9:30 A.M.; that previous to examination of
said witness, who was of lawful age, he was
first sworn by me and duly cautioned to
testify to the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, and that he thereupon
testified in the foregoing manner as set out
in the aforesaid transcript.
I further testify that the foregoing
Deposition was taken down by me in machine
shorthand and was later transcribed by
computer, and that the foregoing Deposition
is a true and accurate record of the
testimony of said witness.

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Pursuant to Rules 5(b) and 30(f) of the
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, original
transcripts shall not be filed in Court;
therefore, the original is delivered to and
retained by Plaintiff's attorney, Richard
S.J. Hung, Esquire.
Correction and signature pages were sent
to Plaintiff's Counsel, Todd M. Briggs.

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IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
my hand and seal this 15th day of September,
2011.

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__________________________________________
BARBARA WARNER, NOTARY PUBLIC/CERTIFIED
COURT REPORTER
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