Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 278

Reply Declaration of Ravin Balakrishnan, Ph.D. in Support of 86 Apple's Motion for Preliminary Injunction filed by Apple Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A - Manual Filing Notification, # 2 Exhibit B - Manual Filing Notification, # 3 Exhibit C - Manual Filing Notification, # 4 Exhibit D, # 5 Exhibit E, # 6 Exhibit F, # 7 Exhibit G, # 8 Exhibit H, # 9 Exhibit I, # 10 Exhibit J, # 11 Exhibit K, # 12 Exhibit L, # 13 Exhibit M, # 14 Exhibit N, # 15 Exhibit O)(Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 9/30/2011) Modified on 10/3/2011 linking entry to document #86 (dhm, COURT STAFF).

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EXHIBIT I Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SAN JOSE DIVISION 2 3 4 APPLE INC., a California corporation, 5 Case No. 11-cv-01846-LHK Plaintiff, 6 v. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD., a Korean business entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC., a New York corporation; SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware limited liability company, Defendants. C O N F I D E N T I A L A T T O R N E Y S' E Y E S O N L Y O U T S I D E C O U N S E L VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D. Washington, D.C. Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:30 a.m. 21 22 Job No. 41965 23 24 25 Reporter: Linda S. Kinkade, RDR, CRR, RMR, CSR Videographer: Conway Barker TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 The following is the videotaped deposition 6 of BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D. held at the offices 7 of: 8 9 10 Morrison & Foerster 11 2000 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. 12 Washington, DC 20005 13 14 15 16 Taken pursuant to applicable Rules of Civil 17 Procedure, before Linda S. Kinkade, Registered 18 Diplomate Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, 19 Registered Professional Reporter, Registered Merit 20 Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter (CA), and 21 Notary Public, in and for the District of Columbia. 22 23 24 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 3 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 4 On Behalf of Plaintiff APPLE INC., a California corporation: 5 MICHAEL A. JACOBS, ESQUIRE 6 DEOK KEUN AHN, ESQUIRE 7 Morrison & Foerster 8 425 Market Street 9 San Francisco, California 94105 10 11 12 13 14 15 On Behalf of Defendant SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.: 16 ERIC HUANG, ESQUIRE 17 AARON KAUFMAN, ESQUIRE 18 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan 19 51 Madison Avenue 20 22nd Floor 21 New York, New York 10010 22 23 24 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 29 1 me to explain what it does or how it does it? 2 Q. Let's start with what it does. 3 A. I believe that this finds the -- this 4 determines the bounds of an email header that 5 most overlaps with the specified cursor 6 rectangle, which is a -- in the application I 7 believe is a blue highlight. 8 9 Q. So let's -- these will be concepts I think we'll be using as we go through the rest 10 of the code, so let's make sure we understand 11 them clearly. 12 We're talking about the actual set of characters 13 that is associated with an email on a list of -- 14 on a list display of emails, correct? 15 16 A. We talk about an email header. Is it all right if I just describe what it does in my words? 17 Q. Sure. 18 A. So when you are zoomed into the email 19 tile application in X-node, one of the parts of 20 that display is a list of email headers where 21 each header is actually an image where the image 22 visually looks like the kind of information 23 commonly included in an email header, such as, I 24 believe, it includes who it's from and what the 25 subject is. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 30 1 So there is a list of these email headers 2 and there is also a partially transparent 3 highlight -- I'll just -- the code refers to it as a 4 cursor. 5 that's -- that highlight can be moved up and down 6 among the different email headers, and the email 7 headers can be moved up and down under the highlight 8 in interaction of this application tile. 9 I'll just call it a highlight. I think And so this code is given a particular 10 position of the list and a particular position of 11 the highlight. 12 rectangular bounds of a header that is the header 13 that is most under the highlight of which there is 14 only one. 15 Q. It determines the rectangle -- the And at this stage of the code all it's 16 going to do is answer that question, which 17 header is closest; it's not necessarily going to 18 take any action based on that decision. 19 Correct? 20 MR. HUANG: 21 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I don't believe that 22 this code has any what are sometimes called side 23 effects. 24 bounds, the calculated bounds. 25 BY MR. JACOBS: I believe all it does is return those TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 56 1 their finger beyond a certain number of pixels, 2 the email list will then follow the finger up 3 and down. 4 down, when the finger lets -- lifts off the 5 screen, the dragging will stop and specialized 6 method application specific method 7 SnapObjectToHighlight will be called. As they move their finger up and 8 Q. And SnapObjectToHighlight is where? 9 A. SnapObjectToHighlight is defined in 10 11 12 the class EmailAppNode. Q. So it's not in the code that we've reviewed so far. 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. Let me see if I can sum this up. We 15 have seen a determination made in this code, in 16 Exhibit 211, EmailListNode cs, we saw a 17 determination made of which header image is 18 closest to the cursor. 19 steps that early on in the code we saw, correct? That was one of the 20 MR. HUANG: 21 THE WITNESS: Objection to form. We found a mechanism to 22 determine -- well, to compute the bounds and to 23 determine which email header node -- the 24 language I would use would be most overlaps the 25 highlight cursor. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 57 1 BY MR. JACOBS: 2 Q. Most overlaps is the key there, right? 3 A. Yes. 4 MR. HUANG: 5 THE WITNESS: Objection. That's the actual 6 calculation that gets computed. 7 BY MR. JACOBS: 8 Q. 9 And then another function we saw was the function of determining whether the finger 10 or other input device has moved far enough such 11 that, depending on the constants that have been 12 input, the displayed item should itself move in 13 response to that input. 14 MR. HUANG: 15 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. Since -- that way you 16 said was long. 17 same thing in my words? 18 BY MR. JACOBS: 19 Q. Please. 20 A. When the user moves their finger, the Can I just try and restate the 21 email header list will follow their finger after 22 the finger has moved a certain definable number 23 of pixels. 24 25 Q. And then when the finger -- when the user lifts his finger, a function called TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 58 1 SnapObjectToHighlight is called. 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And that's defined in, I believe it's 4 defined in Email.cs, which is Exhibit 212, if 5 you want to take a quick look at 212. 6 you we'll get a break in a second. 7 8 MR. HUANG: I promise Objection to the form. Go ahead. 9 THE WITNESS: I think there was a 10 question that I was going to answer. 11 read back the question? 12 BY MR. JACOBS: 13 Q. 14 Yes. Sure. Can you SnapObjectToHighlight defined in Email.cs. 15 A. So to clarify, assuming that Exhibit 16 212 is -- represents the contents of the file 17 Email.cs and that this is the file that I gave 18 to my counsel -- 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. -- then, yes, that method is defined 21 inside of this source code. 22 this source code very briefly, I need to make 23 one further clarification to something I had 24 said. 25 And in looking at I said that EmailAppNode appears to be the TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 64 1 then. 2 SnapObjectToHighlight at the bottom of page 29 3 does? 4 Can you describe what public A. Yes. So this is the method that gets 5 called in the OnMouseUp method that I described 6 previously when the user lifts their finger off 7 the device after they finish dragging. 8 9 It takes two parameters, Node and Animate. The first parameter that is passed in from the 10 caller OnMouseUp is DraggedNode, which I believe is 11 the node that was being dragged up and down, which I 12 believe is slidingNode -- refers back to slidingNode 13 in the original code. 14 15 16 And the second parameter is called Animate, which is passed in as true. So Animate is true. So the definition of SnapObjectToHighlight 17 takes the overall email header list that is 18 displayed on the screen and moves it with animation 19 over time so that the email header object that most 20 overlaps the highlight cursor ends up completely 21 underneath the highlight cursor. 22 Q. Can you explain how that occurs? 23 A. Yes. The first line determines the 24 bounds of the highlight cursor in the 25 appropriate coordinate system. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 78 1 BY MR. JACOBS: 2 Q. And is it the very same code that 3 executes that functionality in the following two 4 conditions: 5 bar is between email header images in the list; 6 condition 2, the email header is in the white 7 display space underneath the last -- below the 8 last of the email headers in the list? 9 10 Condition 1, the cursor highlight MR. HUANG: Objection to the form of the question. 11 THE WITNESS: You used the word email 12 header where I think you meant highlight cursor. 13 BY MR. JACOBS: 14 Q. I think I did, yes. 15 again. 16 So let me ask it can do it more clearly. 17 Maybe now that I have stated it orally I There are two possibilities for the email 18 highlight cursor to be out of alignment with 19 email headers. 20 between email headers; the other possibility is 21 it's after the last of the email headers. 22 Correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Is it the exact same code that causes 25 One possibility is it's in the email header to snap into alignment with the TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 79 1 email cursor bar in either of those two cases? 2 MR. HUANG: 3 THE WITNESS: Same objection. So there is only one 4 code sequence of flow that performs snapping, 5 and that same sequence is used wherever the 6 email list is positioned vertically, including 7 when the bottom-most email header is above the 8 bottom of the screen. 9 BY MR. JACOBS: 10 Q. And the -- it is possible that, when 11 the user lifts -- in the case of the depiction 12 on page 6 of your declaration -- when the user 13 lifts his finger, that the blue cursor bar and 14 email header image are in alignment, correct? 15 MR. HUANG: 16 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. So at the time the user 17 lifts off, it's possible that one of the email 18 headers is already completely aligned underneath 19 the highlight cursor -- highlight cursor. 20 BY MR. JACOBS: 21 Q. That's my question. 22 A. Yes, that's possible. 23 Q. So I think you did this before, but if 24 you could just again point us to the code that 25 tests whether that condition has been met. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 80 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. Or, to state the obvious, or that the 3 condition has not been met and that the snap 4 functionality must be invoked in order to create 5 alignment. 6 MR. HUANG: 7 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. So I believe those -- 8 the code does not distinguish between those two 9 conditions and it does exactly the same thing in 10 the case where the email header is already 11 aligned with the highlight. 12 same animation over the same period of time, but 13 the calculated ydiff, the amount that it moves, 14 is zero. 15 it will do the animation, it will render many 16 times with several in-between states, and those 17 in between states will all be the same. 18 actually does do a kind of degenerate snapping. 19 BY MR. JACOBS: 20 Q. It performs the And so it will actually do the code, So it So the calculation that needs to be 21 done in order to decide whether it's -- in order 22 to decide whether there is any kind of visual 23 movement that has to occur is the calculation of 24 ydiff? 25 A. So ydiff calculates the amount of TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 81 1 movement. 2 executed is the same, but the user will 3 experience that nothing changes on the screen. 4 Q. If ydiff is zero, then the code Let's just go through again the 5 calculation of ydiff with that case in mind. 6 think that was on 212 at 28. 7 A. I On pages 28 and 29 there is the method 8 SnapPositionToObject, which we've already 9 discussed, and at the top on page 29, near the 10 top, it calculates ydiff to be 11 sourceRectangle.top minus Rectangle.Top. 12 So in this case where the top of the email 13 header is the same position as the top of the 14 highlight cursor, then these two top values will 15 be the same, whatever they are, and so when you 16 subtract one from the other, they will have the 17 value of zero. 18 zero. 19 OffsetY property of the Matrix variable gets 20 decreased by an amount whose value is ydiff. 21 ydiff is zero, then it won't be decreased. 22 Ydiff will then have a value of Three lines later Matrix -- sorry -- the If So then, when it does the actual animation 23 by calling Animate to Matrix and it passes in that 24 Matrix variable, if Matrix has not been changed from 25 its initial value, then the result of calling TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 82 1 Animate to Matrix will be that nothing on the screen 2 changes position. 3 Q. And then looking -- thinking about 4 this from the other end of the email list, 5 thinking about the top of the email list, is it 6 possible that the user ended his -- the user 7 experience with the blue bar -- by lifting the 8 finger at the point where the blue cursor bar is 9 above the first email header? 10 MR. HUANG: 11 THE WITNESS: 12 Q. I don't recall. BY MR. JACOBS: 13 Objection to the form. 14 that would stop that from happening? 15 16 Is there some -- is there something MR. HUANG: Same objection, objection to the form. 17 THE WITNESS: I haven't seen anything 18 in the code we looked at today that would stop 19 the highlight cursor from ending up above the 20 top-most email header. 21 BY MR. JACOBS: 22 Q. And if there is no obstacle to that 23 occurring, then the same SnapTo functionality 24 should cause the blue bar to go to the top email 25 header, correct? TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 84 1 Do you see that? 2 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. What's the reference to depending on 4 the degree of the over-pan? 5 MR. HUANG: 6 THE WITNESS: Objection, form. If in the example that's 7 described here with these images, for a concrete 8 example, if the user has dragged -- moves -- 9 touches the screen, drags their finger up so 10 they are moving the email list up, and the 11 bottom-most email header is above the bottom of 12 the screen, if -- so this is the over-pan 13 position -- if they have over-panned to a degree 14 such that that bottom email header is partially 15 overlapping with the highlight cursor, then it 16 will snap back so that the bottom-most email 17 header is aligned with the bottom of the screen 18 in this situation. 19 BY MR. JACOBS: 20 Q. And if -- so in order for the snap 21 back to occur, there must be some partial 22 overlap at the end -- when the user lifts his 23 finger? 24 MR. HUANG: 25 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. If the -- it depends on TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 85 1 how much the bottom email header is above the 2 bottom of the screen. 3 I said, depending on the degree of the over-pan, 4 if the degree is such that there is some 5 overlap, then it will snap back. 6 BY MR. JACOBS: 7 Q. 8 A. I believe then it does not snap back. Then I believe it just stays in that position. 11 12 And if the degree is such that there is no overlap, what happens? 9 10 So if it's -- that's why Q. And that's just a function of the state of the code as -- let me start over again. 13 That is because the code in its -- in the 14 state in which you've provided it to us doesn't 15 have a case for no overlap or beyond overlap; is 16 that correct? 17 A. Well, the code -- it does what it 18 does. 19 features and interactions, as we talked about, 20 and that's what it does. 21 I mean, it does a very specific set of Q. So -- Let me ask it this way. Point us 22 where in the code the test is set forth in a way 23 that such that that constraint, that there must 24 be some overlap is present. 25 A. So in Exhibit 212 -TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 86 1 Q. Email.cs. 2 A. -- Email.cs, pages 29 to 30, method 3 SnapObjectToHighlight, around the fifth line of 4 code it calls, GetIntersectingEmailItemBounds. 5 As we discussed earlier, this returns the 6 rectangle representing the bounds of the email 7 header that most overlaps the highlight cursor 8 implemented by that 9 GetIntersectingEmailItemBounds method. If we're 10 in this condition where there is no email header 11 that overlaps -- sorry. 12 condition where the bounds of every email header 13 does not overlap the bounds of the highlight 14 cursor, then this method will return a 15 sourceRectangle whose value is empty. 16 If we're in the The next line of code in 17 SnapObjectToHighlight says, if sourceRectangle is 18 not empty, then it calls SnapPositionToObject. 19 in the case we're talking about, sourceRectangle 20 would be empty and this SnapPositionToObject method 21 would not get called. 22 Q. So So I may not have been tracking your 23 description. 24 well, four lines up from the bottom, if you 25 include the brace, there is if sourceRectangle On the bottom of page 29, three -- TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 97 1 Microsoft in this time period. 2 Q. And Amy Karlson was with you at HCIL? 3 A. Correct, she was. 4 Q. Same for Aaron Clamage? 5 A. Correct, yes, he was. 6 Q. Now, if you turn to paragraph 8, it 7 says, attached as Exhibit F is an executable 8 version of LaunchTile -- line 18, 19, 20 -- 9 which is identical or substantially similar to 10 the version of LaunchTile that we demonstrated 11 in our video and discussed in our paper and 12 presentation at the CHI conference. 13 that? Do you see 14 A. I do. 15 Q. The reference to the possibility that 16 it is substantially similar, what are you -- why 17 did you -- why might it not be identical but 18 only substantially similar to the version that 19 you demonstrated? 20 MR. HUANG: 21 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. If you don't mind, I'm 22 just going to read this section of my 23 declaration to get the whole context. 24 BY MR. JACOBS: 25 Q. Sure. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 98 1 A. There is at least two reasons that I 2 said that. 3 development of LaunchTile after we submitted the 4 paper, and so -- and the -- we made the video at 5 the time that we submitted the paper. 6 made the video with the version of the code that 7 was available right at the time we submitted the 8 paper. 9 that time. One is that I recall that we stopped So we We stopped development just about after So I don't think there was any 10 further development. 11 executable version that I attached works in the 12 same way that the video does, and so there 13 was -- I couldn't see any difference between the 14 executable that we ran and the demonstration in 15 the video. 16 my memory that these were all done 17 contemporaneously. 18 19 20 Q. And then, in addition, the So it's further corroboration with But the reason for the qualification of substantially similar is what? A. That I don't have a precise time stamp 21 of that source code that correlates with the 22 video that shows that it was done exactly the 23 same day and that it was exactly the same code. 24 25 Q. The source code control system that we discussed earlier this morning could give you TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 103 1 THE WITNESS: Inasmuch as it refers to 2 snapping and over-panning and under-panning, 3 yes. 4 BY MR. JACOBS: 5 Q. Is there functionality in -- I need to 6 understand what that might exclude in your 7 declaration. 8 paragraphs 10 through 18, are there any 9 paragraphs that are describing LaunchTile that 10 11 12 So if you take a look at you're unsure of how they apply to XNav? A. I'm going to have to read those paragraphs. 13 So the features described in paragraphs 10 14 through 18 of my declaration LaunchTile and XNav 15 do in fact behave in identical or substantially 16 similar ways. 17 Q. So, again, that phrase "substantially 18 similar" comes up. 19 which they are not identical? Is there any respect in 20 A. I'm not aware of any. 21 Q. The phrase, "over-pan or under-pan 22 command," do you see that? 23 A. Where are you referring to? 24 Q. In paragraph 20. 25 A. Yes, I do. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 113 1 BY MR. JACOBS: 2 Q. Let me start over. Can you please 3 demonstrate the case where the highlighting bar 4 is above the email list because you've pulled 5 the email list down and there is no overlap 6 between the highlighting bar and the top-most 7 email header? 8 MR. HUANG: 9 THE WITNESS: Same objection. Okay. So I'm dragging 10 the email list down so that there is no overlap 11 between any of the email headers and the 12 highlight bar and then I let go. 13 MR. JACOBS: 14 VIDEOGRAPHER: 15 (Brief interruption.) 16 VIDEOGRAPHER: 17 Q. Off the record at 1:34. Back on the record at BY MR. JACOBS: 19 Thank you. 1:34:44. 18 Okay. Dr. Bederson, in your declaration you 20 refer to some other portions of code as 21 relevant, at paragraph 22 of your declaration. 22 I believe you have ShellForm in front of you, 23 yes, as Exhibit 213. 24 that you referred to at paragraph 22, that being 25 line 746, 760 and 764 at page 19. We have located the lines TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 113 1 BY MR. JACOBS: 2 Q. Let me start over. Can you please 3 demonstrate the case where the highlighting bar 4 is above the email list because you've pulled 5 the email list down and there is no overlap 6 between the highlighting bar and the top-most 7 email header? 8 MR. HUANG: 9 THE WITNESS: Same objection. Okay. So I'm dragging 10 the email list down so that there is no overlap 11 between any of the email headers and the 12 highlight bar and then I let go. 13 MR. JACOBS: 14 VIDEOGRAPHER: 15 (Brief interruption.) 16 VIDEOGRAPHER: 17 Q. Off the record at 1:34. Back on the record at BY MR. JACOBS: 19 Thank you. 1:34:44. 18 Okay. Dr. Bederson, in your declaration you 20 refer to some other portions of code as 21 relevant, at paragraph 22 of your declaration. 22 I believe you have ShellForm in front of you, 23 yes, as Exhibit 213. 24 that you referred to at paragraph 22, that being 25 line 746, 760 and 764 at page 19. We have located the lines TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 115 1 right near the second line from the bottom, and 2 those are the three lines that are referred to 3 in my declaration. 4 5 Q. Can you explain what the code is doing on page 20? 6 MR. HUANG: 7 MR. JACOBS: 8 Actually it was a good objection. 9 Objection to the form. BY MR. JACOBS: 10 11 Q. Can you explain what the code on page 20 is doing? 12 MR. HUANG: 13 THE WITNESS: Same objection. So the code on pages 19 14 through 21 are -- all implement a method called 15 OnMouseUp. 16 LaunchPointListener, which is a subclass of Ppan 17 EventHandler. 18 dragging and snapping in the Zone view. 19 method in question, OnMouseUp, gets called when 20 the user lifts their finger off the screen after 21 they have finished dragging. 22 OnMouseUp is part of a class called The class in general supports The And the particular part of the code we're 23 looking at examines what kind of dragging was 24 being done, in particular, there is a condition 25 around line 7 on page 20 that says: TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 116 1 If direction equals horizontal -- I'm just 2 paraphrasing this code to make it easier to 3 understand -- then it executes one body of code. 4 So this means, if the user was dragging 5 the zones horizontally, that is, left to right, 6 then there is another conditional that I 7 interpret as meaning, if the user has dragged 8 more than one-sixth of a screen width, then it 9 does one thing, and the thing that it does is it 10 will snap to the next Zone in the direction that 11 they were moving, and that is partially 12 displayed on the screen. 13 false, that is, if they dragged less or equal to 14 one-sixth of a screen width, then it would call 15 AdjustToCurrent, which I believe will end up 16 resulting in the Zone snapping back to the Zone 17 that the user started out in. 18 If that condition was I'm still answering this question. 19 was the case for if the user was dragging 20 That horizontally. 21 The next conditional is if the user was 22 dragging vertically, and it does parallel code for 23 snapping forward or backward. 24 condition if they were dragging neither horizontally 25 nor vertically, then it would snap back to the Zone TSG Reporting - Worldwide And then there is a (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 117 1 they started out at. 2 Q. Where is that last case coded? 3 A. It's the last three lines of page 20 4 where it says, else, open brace, 5 landscape.AdjustToCurrent (true) and then closed 6 brace. 7 Q. So that's if neither the width nor the 8 height condition are satisfied, then it leaves 9 that possibility; is that the way that works? 10 11 12 13 A. Right. If the user had dragged neither horizontally nor vertically. Q. So camera.ViewBounds.width or camera.ViewBounds.height, those are variables? 14 A. Not quite. 15 Q. What are they? 16 A. Those are compound statements. Camera 17 refers to a variable which represents the camera 18 of the system. 19 the camera sees and the width -- sorry. 20 see if I can say that more clearly. 21 ViewBounds is the bounds of what Let me ViewBounds is the bounds of the portion of 22 the abstract space that is displayed on the 23 screen. 24 25 Q. In the -- when you and I were discussing the email application of the snap TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 124 1 A. I believe that OnMouseUp gets called 2 for each -- not for each -- for many different 3 positions of the finger while the finger is 4 being dragged that include arbitrary positions 5 on the screen, so the finger -- it can report 6 positions or positioning includes an X and a Y 7 position that can be any position on the screen. 8 9 Q. And how does it -- can you explain how the code is treating the second phase of the 10 three-step interaction -- interaction 11 sequence -- that you discussed? 12 A. This code we're talking about is 13 OnMouseUp, so this actually refers to the third 14 part of the interaction sequence when the user 15 lets go of the mouse -- or lets go of the 16 screen. 17 Q. Excuse me. So the calculation of one-sixth of 18 this screen width I understood your testimony to 19 be that that's the -- I think I misunderstood 20 your testimony. 21 Now I see what's going on. This one-sixth of the screen width that's 22 being referred to is a comparison of one-sixth 23 of the screen width with the amount of the -- 24 the width of the tile, correct? 25 A. So in this long statement that we're TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 125 1 talking about on page 20, inside the horizontal 2 condition, if Math.Abs, 3 MousePressedCanvasPoint -- 4 5 THE REPORTER: If you would read slower. 6 THE WITNESS: Sorry. Let me restate 7 that. 8 in this statement that begins if Math.Abs 9 (MousePressedCanvasPoint.X minus Just to make sure we're -- to be clear, 10 e.CanvasPosition -- sorry -- CanvasPosition.X, 11 right parenthesis, greater-than sign, left 12 parenthesis, camera.ViewBounds.width/ 6, right 13 parenthesis, in this line that we're talking 14 about, that last part, 15 camera.ViewBounds.width/6, refers to one-sixth 16 of the total display of the width of the screen. 17 BY MR. JACOBS: 18 Q. And that -- and the comparison is of 19 one-sixth of the total display of the screen to 20 what? 21 A. So the other side of the condition is 22 the difference between the point the user 23 touched down on the screen and the current 24 point, which is at this point in the code 25 sequence is when the user lifted off on the TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 126 1 2 screen. So this is saying between the time the 3 user has touched down and the time the user has 4 lifted up, this looks at how much -- what the 5 difference is in horizontal position on the 6 screen of the finger's -- of the finger, and it 7 compares that to one-sixth of the width of the 8 screen. 9 Q. So this algorithm depends on the first 10 step and the last step of the interaction 11 sequence and not on the intermediate phase of 12 the interaction sequence, correct? 13 A. Not quite. And the reason is because 14 this condition only gets executed if the 15 direction is horizontal that was computed in a 16 previous step. 17 executed only for the particular user 18 interaction sequences where the application has 19 determined that they are moving horizontally. 20 Q. So this is -- this code gets If the -- step one of the interaction 21 sequence is finger is -- touches on the screen 22 at location X/Y and step -- and then in between, 23 in the middle phase of the interaction sequence, 24 the finger moves to the left and then back -- 25 right to X/Y, is the amount of movement that is TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 128 1 think I quite understood. 2 BY MR. JACOBS: 3 Q. So the landing position of the finger 4 and the finger-up position are identical, but in 5 between the user went back and forth diagonally. 6 MR. HUANG: 7 THE WITNESS: Same objection. So the code we're 8 talking about right now only executes if the 9 direction variable is horizontal. So we haven't 10 yet talked about how that might come to be. 11 the case that the direction is horizontal, if 12 they press -- the user touched down, they moved 13 in such a way that direction ended up being 14 horizontal, and then they also had some diagonal 15 or other movement and then came back to the 16 ending point, the direction was still 17 horizontal, then this calculation would still be 18 zero. 19 BY MR. JACOBS: 20 Q. 21 22 In So I may need to ask you how the horizontal condition is measured. A. All right. So I'm going to have to 23 refresh my recollection by looking at some code 24 to answer that question. 25 Okay. So going back to page 15 in this same TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 129 1 document, Exhibit 213, ShellForm.cs, we've been 2 talking about the class LaunchPointListener, which 3 is a subclass of PPanEventHandler. 4 described this code as generally supporting the 5 dragging and snapping features in the Zone view. 6 And I've already The second method in this class, at the 7 bottom of page 15, is a method called 8 ShouldStartDragInteraction. 9 gets called to determine when the user is at the I believe this method 10 beginning of the interaction sequence -- sorry -- 11 when the user has first started dragging during the 12 second part of the interaction sequence, whether the 13 visual display on the screen should start tracking, 14 should start dragging underneath the figure. 15 With the expectation -- the way this code is 16 written is that for the first few -- first some 17 number of pixels of finger movement it does not 18 follow the finger. 19 all. 20 number of pixels, has -- more than some threshold, 21 after which the dragging interaction starts -- the 22 dragging feature starts. 23 this ShouldStartDragInteraction. 24 particular constant, the number of pixels the finger 25 must move, is determined by this constant click It just -- nothing happens at And then after the finger has moved a certain So that's implemented in TSG Reporting - Worldwide And that (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 130 1 underscore threshold, which is defined elsewhere. 2 So until the finger has moved enough, that 3 dragging has started, until that point essentially 4 nothing happens on the screen. 5 there is a method starting on page 16 entitled 6 "Pan." 7 user is in the second phase of interaction and they 8 are dragging their screen and that threshold has 9 been reached, that is, they have moved their fingers 10 11 And, in particular, This Pan method gets called whenever the more than this threshold. So once the screen starts following the 12 user's finger, then Pan gets called. 13 thing Pan does is it looks at a variable called 14 Direction. 15 the beginning of the declaration of 16 LaunchPointListener class, around the middle of the 17 screen, to be equal to a constant called none, 18 meaning there was no direction initially specified. 19 The first Direction was initialized on page 15 in So going back to the Pan method on page 16, 20 the first thing this Pan method does is it says, if 21 direction is none, then it compares how much the 22 current position of the finger has moved in the Y 23 direction, that is, vertically, compared to how much 24 it has moved in the X direction, that is, 25 horizontal. If it has moved more vertically than TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 133 1 display of finger movement from the beginning to 2 the end of the interaction sequence, that 3 movement, what defines the end point of that 4 movement? 5 6 7 A. I'm sorry. I don't think I understand the question. Q. On page 20, if there is more 8 horizontal movement than one-sixth of the screen 9 width, then the additional movement occurs, 10 correct, beyond the movement that -- beyond the 11 movement that was in place when the finger was 12 lifted off the screen. 13 14 15 A. I'm sorry. I don't think -- what you said doesn't make sense to me. Q. So what happens on page 20 in the -- 16 with the horizontal condition being satisfied 17 and finger movement of greater than one-sixth of 18 the screen display size? 19 A. So if we've gone through this three 20 steps of interaction, the user has touched down, 21 they have dragged more than a threshold, this 22 system has determined that they have been 23 dragging in a more horizontal than vertical 24 direction, and then the user lifts their finger 25 off the screen, at the time the finger lifts off TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 134 1 the screen this OnMouseUp method is called. 2 it is determined that the amount that they have 3 moved their finger horizontally -- sorry -- if 4 the horizontal amount that they had moved their 5 finger in this drag sequence is greater than 6 one-sixth of the screen, then the contents of 7 this "if" condition will get executed. 8 Otherwise, the "else" condition will get 9 executed. 10 11 12 Q. If And when the "if" condition is executed, what happens? A. So in the case that it was positive, 13 so either has moved more than one-sixth of the 14 horizontal -- let me restate that. 15 has moved their finger horizontally more than 16 one-sixth of the screen width, then it looks to 17 see if the user had been -- dragged their finger 18 to the right of the starting point or to the 19 left of the starting point. If the user 20 In the case that they had dragged their 21 finger to the right of the starting point, it 22 calls the NavigateRight method. 23 dragged their finger to the left of the starting 24 point, it calls the NavigateLeft method. 25 Q. If they had Is the NavigateRight method present in TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 135 1 the ShellForm.cs code? 2 A. I don't believe so. 3 Q. What does the NavigateRight method do? 4 A. My recollection is that it will 5 Animate the screen to the next Zone to the right 6 if there is one. 7 Q. And when you say Zone, what is the -- 8 what is the Zone in the code? 9 beginning and end of a Zone in the code? 10 MR. HUANG: 11 THE WITNESS: What defines the Objection to the form. There is a 12 correspondence in the data structures of the 13 code between what we refer to in the user 14 experience as a Zone. 15 structure in the code that represents each of 16 the nine Zones. 17 BY MR. JACOBS: 18 Q. So there is a data In the case in which the finger 19 movement in the interaction sequence is less 20 than one-sixth of the screen dimension, whether 21 it's horizontal or vertical, what does the code 22 do? 23 MR. HUANG: 24 THE WITNESS: 25 Objection to the form. If you don't mind, I'm just going to answer for the horizontal just to TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 144 1 sets a callback method so that when the activity is 2 completed it calls a method called 3 PanToTileFinished. 4 ShowThumbs equals true and SlowInSlowOut should be 5 false. 6 It sets a property to say that This whole big, long conditional ends, and 7 the last four lines of this long method are 8 executed, which sets some values -- I don't know 9 what they mean -- ActiveQuad equals tile; ActiveApp 10 equals null, commented out line, and then another 11 method tile.XNav.AnimateToMode, and I do not know 12 what this line does. 13 After this method returns, this was the 14 activate method, and the whole calling sequence of 15 other methods that resulted in this getting called, 16 at that point this activity which had been scheduled 17 will start and the animation will occur on the 18 screen, and there will be the visual snapback that 19 I've referred to. 20 Q. In the case where the greater-than 21 one-sixth test has been met and it's a -- and 22 the horizontal-movement test has been met, and 23 so it's -- greater than one-sixth of the 24 horizontal-screen width has been met, and you 25 are -- but in the direction in which you have TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 145 1 moved there are no more tiles, what happens? 2 3 A. So do you mean from the user experience or from the code? 4 Q. Let's start from the user experience. 5 A. So just to clarify, if you -- I think 6 the situation you described cannot happen 7 actually. 8 9 10 Q. So you can't move past -- you can't pull an edge of a Zone -- probably better to create an example. 11 If you have a Zone on a screen and on the 12 right edge of the screen or the right edge of the 13 Zone there are no more tiles -- 14 15 16 17 A. Can we say Zones? There are no more Q. No more Zones, and, hence, no more Zones? tiles, right, because tiles fill a Zone? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So to the right -- to the right of the 20 Zone on the screen there is not another Zone, 21 and the finger movement is more than 20% in a 22 horizontal dimension of the screen width to the 23 left, the Zone image does not move. 24 25 MR. HUANG: Objection to the form of the question. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 146 1 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure -- I 2 understood everything you said except for the 3 20% part. 4 BY MR. JACOBS: 5 Q. Okay. Actually I think it's 6 regardless of whether it's 20%. 7 no -- if the Zone is filling the screen and to 8 the right of the Zone there is not another Zone 9 and the finger movement is to the left, does 10 the -- regardless of whether it's 20% of the 11 screen width or not, does the image of the Zone 12 move to the left with the finger? 13 If there is A. I believe in the set situation it will 15 Q. And what prevents that from happening? 16 A. In the code? 17 Q. Yes. 18 A. I do not know. 19 Q. So let's take a look back at 14 not. 20 ShellForm. 21 protected override void OnDrag. There is a functionality called 22 MR. HUANG: 23 MR. JACOBS: 24 25 Do you have a page? Yes. I believe it's page 17. THE WITNESS: I see the OnDrag method TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 148 1 2 panning or attempting to pan the screen. Q. And how does it -- what happens when 3 there is no, in our case, where there is no Zone 4 to the right? 5 A. I'm just going to look at this code 6 for a moment. 7 minute so that it will settle. I'll figure this out in another 8 Q. Not a problem. 9 A. To be honest, I'm having a little 10 trouble understanding exactly how this code 11 works. 12 consistent with how it behaved, so I'm likely 13 misunderstanding something here. 14 Q. My interpretation of the code is not Let me come at the topic this way. 15 is the case, as we discussed, that you can't 16 cause the Zone to move to the left when the 17 right-most boundary of the Zone does not have 18 adjacent to it on the right another Zone, 19 correct? 20 MR. HUANG: 21 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I think -- let me 22 just -- 23 BY MR. JACOBS: 24 Q. Say it your way. 25 A. There is a grid of 3x3 Zones that's TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 It Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 149 1 fixed in the code. 2 right-most column, that is, any of the three 3 right Zones, and you try and drag to the left, 4 you will not be able to drag to the left. 5 Q. Why? So if you were in the Why did you design it that way? 6 MR. HUANG: 7 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I don't recall our 8 thinking in that specific design decision. 9 BY MR. JACOBS: 10 Q. Was it a design decision? 11 MR. HUANG: 12 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. Or possibly a lack of a 13 design decision. 14 thinking was for that particular interaction 15 detail. 16 BY MR. JACOBS: 17 Q. 18 I don't remember what our The source code for LaunchTile, were you able to locate that? 19 A. No, I was not. 20 Q. Any idea what happened to it? 21 A. Well, I know that Amy Karlson was 22 primarily responsible for writing it. 23 she managed source code, and I don't think I 24 probably followed it in that much detail. 25 that's why I -- when I looked, I didn't have it, TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 I believe So Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 158 1 MR. HUANG: 2 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I wouldn't characterize 3 it that way, but LaunchTile runs on the pocket 4 PC platform. 5 devices from different manufacturers over the 6 years, so I don't remember which specific one we 7 showed on that day. 8 BY MR. JACOBS: 9 Q. And we had a number of different Paragraph 20 says, XNav was meant to 10 run on different mobile touchscreen devices and 11 on different operating systems than LaunchTile. 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes, I see that. 14 Q. So which operating system was 15 16 LaunchTile intended for? A. LaunchTile was intended for pocket PC, 17 and, I believe, and Windows mobile platforms, 18 and XNav was intended for the Windows XP and 19 desktop operating systems. 20 on Windows XP. 21 Q. I think we tested it Do you recall any specific 22 demonstrations that you did of LaunchTile at the 23 HCIL symposium in 2005 May? 24 25 A. Do you mean do I specifically have a recollection of me, sort of mind's eye, showing TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 159 1 it to an individual? 2 Q. Exactly. 3 A. No, I cannot think of a specific one. 4 Q. On paragraph 20 -- sorry -- on 5 paragraph 25 you -- the declaration says that 6 your team presented our work, which included 7 LaunchTile and its user interface features 8 including the snap and panning features 9 discussed above. Do you see that? 10 A. Yes, I do. 11 Q. And what do you recall specifically of 12 demonstrations or discussions of the snap and 13 panning features discussed above in your 14 declaration? 15 16 17 A. I think I -- I got confused in your question, if you don't mind repeating it. (Record read.) 18 THE WITNESS: So I recall in the 19 presentation we showed the video, and the video 20 included the panning features and at least some 21 of the snap features, and I recall generally 22 demonstrating the software -- I recall both me 23 and Amy generally demonstrating the software -- 24 at least me and Amy. 25 as well. There may have been others Aaron Clamage probably was there as TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 160 1 well demonstrating it. 2 BY MR. JACOBS: 3 Q. So that's what I recall. Were you demonstrating the software in 4 a live basis in conformance with what was 5 demonstrated on the video? 6 map what was on the video to your live 7 demonstration? 8 MR. HUANG: 9 THE WITNESS: Were you trying to Objection to the form. No. The video was a 10 short, you know, narrow summary, and when we 11 gave live demos it was much more casual. 12 would typically hand the device over to whoever 13 we were showing it to, let them do whatever they 14 want, ask us any questions. 15 seen the video, so they typically would want to 16 go beyond that. 17 BY MR. JACOBS: 18 Q. We They had already Do you recall anything specifically 19 being demonstrated in May 2005 that wasn't in 20 the video? 21 A. I don't recall the specific details of 22 what was or was not shown to any specific 23 individual. 24 25 Q. Let me show you an email that you produced to us. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 172 1 2 A. I don't recall having any disagreement with that. 3 (Exhibit No. 217 marked for 4 identification.) 5 BY MR. JACOBS: 6 Q. 217 is another email that may fall 7 into the category of a response, although it's 8 not in a string with John's email. 9 refresh your recollection. It may So 217 is an email 10 from you to John SanGiovanni dated August 25th, 11 2005, subject, LaunchTile source, and in this 12 email you give him a location from which he can 13 download the source code for LaunchTile for the 14 desktop. Do you see that? 15 A. Yes, I see that. 16 Q. And then you must have sent him an 17 email so that he could decrypt an encrypted 18 file, correct? 19 A. That's implied by this email. 20 Q. And the reason it was encrypted was 21 what? 22 MR. HUANG: 23 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I think I vaguely -- 24 well, I guess I can't remember. 25 specific recollection of why I would have TSG Reporting - Worldwide I don't have a (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 173 1 encrypted it. 2 BY MR. JACOBS: 3 Q. Do you have a general sense of why you 4 were encrypting files that you were maybe -- the 5 files in particular that you were sending to 6 Microsoft? 7 A. I guess the reason I hesitate is I 8 don't remember whether this was my request or 9 somebody else's request. If it was somebody 10 else's request, then it was because they 11 requested it, and if it was at my initiation, I 12 guess I thought it was a good idea at the time. 13 I just don't really remember why. 14 Q. You do recall Microsoft receiving the 15 code. 16 when I asked you what became of LaunchTile, that 17 at least you transmitted the code, I guess, 18 maybe to be precise about what you said. 19 Microsoft receive the code? 20 I think you said a few minutes ago that, A. Did I guess I assume they received the 21 code and there may have even been follow-up 22 emails or other communications. 23 specific recollection of them representing that 24 they received the code. 25 Q. I don't have a So to expand from that slightly, you TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 174 1 don't have a recollection of them saying, we got 2 the code, we tried it out, it works really well 3 here, we like it, something like that? 4 5 A. I don't have any specific recollection. 6 Q. How about a general -- any general 7 recollection of their reaction to the product 8 when you -- assuming you delivered it to them? 9 A. 10 with it. 11 had already come and gone. 12 the answer is, I guess, no. 13 14 Q. Well, they had already been familiar This was a year later. The conference So I wouldn't -- so Let me show you a couple more emails. This is going back in time again. 15 (Exhibit Nos. 218, 219 and 220 marked for 16 identification.) 17 BY MR. JACOBS: 18 Q. 19 REDACTED So 218 is September 22, 2004, right? The last date on the string. 20 A. September 22nd, 2004, is that what you 22 Q. Yes. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. It starts with an email from John 21 25 said? SanGiovanni to you, legal update, and I know TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 181 1 part of the thread so I can make more sense of 2 that? 3 Q. Sure. 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. Looking at John SanGiovanni's email to 6 you of May 17th, 2005, Re Enhanced LaunchTile 7 PowerPoint, he says, thanks, yes, making great 8 progress on the IP licensing front. 9 MSR -- I believe that's Microsoft Research, I convinced 10 correct? 11 A. Probably. 12 Q. -- to let me write up the LaunchTile 13 shell concepts together with some of Daniel 14 Robbins' ZoomZone claims into a patent. 15 anxious to see what the U.S. Patent Office 16 thinks. I'm 17 Do you see that? 18 A. I do. 19 Q. What information do you have beyond 20 21 22 23 this email on that patent application? MR. HUANG: Objection to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: I believe they had filed 24 an application that is on the -- I believe that 25 there is -- I believe Microsoft has filed an TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 182 1 application for some of the things related to 2 LaunchTile and this other project that was going 3 on at Microsoft at the time, ZoneZoom. 4 BY MR. JACOBS: 5 Q. And what was ZoneZoom? 6 A. My general recollection is that it 7 included the idea that you could break a 8 cellphone user interface into a 3x3 grid and map 9 it to the 3x3 grid of a typical 1 through 9 10 NumPad so that you could press one of the 11 numbers on the numerical keypad and have that 12 interact with the grid on the visual display. 13 14 MR. JACOBS: break. 15 16 17 Why don't we take a VIDEOGRAPHER: 4. This is the end of tape Off the record at 3:29. (Proceedings recessed.) 18 VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the beginning 19 of tape 5 in the deposition of Dr. Bederson. 20 the record at 3:47. 21 BY MR. JACOBS: 22 Q. 23 24 25 On Dr. Bederson, how are you being compensated for your work on this case? A. How? At an hourly basis, based on the number of -- the amount of time I have put into TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 183 1 work on this case. 2 Q. What is your hourly rate? 3 A. $450 an hour. 4 Q. And that is the rate that you have in 5 your understanding, your agreement, with Quinn 6 Emanuel on behalf of Samsung? 7 A. Yes, I believe it is. 8 Q. How many hours have you worked so far 9 on the case? 10 A. I don't recall exactly. 11 Q. Roughly? 12 A. Maybe 40 or 50. 13 Q. Your understanding is that your work 14 in this case is as a fact witness, correct? 15 A. That's my understanding. 16 Q. You haven't been asked to form any 17 expert opinions on the relationship between what 18 you did and Apple's patents, correct? 19 A. Correct, I have not. 20 Q. Have you looked at the Apple patent 21 that Samsung is asserting your work against? 22 A. I've reviewed it. 23 Q. But not formed any opinions at 24 Samsung's request on the relationship between 25 your work and the patent, correct? TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 189 1 dragging a Zone, does the blue dot move with the 2 Zone? 3 A. 4 of the screen. 5 Q. 6 No. The blue dot stays in the center And that's in fact, if we go back to the demonstration, we would see that, correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. So blue remains centered, the Zone 9 moves, and, as it says here in the article, each 10 Zone is depicted with an empty center hub during 11 dragging, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And then, upon thumb release, the zoom 14 space animates to align, I guess, leaving aside 15 the 20% issue, what it might have said is, upon 16 thumb release, the zoom space animates such that 17 the zoom space is aligned with blue, right? 18 Blue didn't move. 19 A. Correct. It doesn't actually say that 20 blue moves in this, but I agree that it is 21 written in a slightly awkward way. 22 zoom space animates, so it's pretty clear that 23 the zoom space is the thing that's animating and 24 it results in the zoom space being aligned with 25 blue, but the way it's written is to align with TSG Reporting - Worldwide It says the (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 190 1 blue, so it's just very -- perhaps slightly 2 awkward, but I think the meaning is pretty 3 clear. 4 Q. Okay. So what we are saying here is, 5 upon thumb release, the zoom space animates such 6 that the specified zone's empty hub is aligned 7 with blue, specified by the virtue of the 20% 8 rule. 9 10 A. Well, you said 20%. I think dividing by 6 -- 11 Q. Oh, you're right. 12 A. That's why I was confused. It's not 13 quite 20%. 14 terms of hubs. 15 as if we had said center the Zone on the screen 16 because of the fact that the blue dot is 17 centered on the screen and because of the empty 18 center hub is centered within the Zone. 19 described in a different way. 20 same. 21 Q. This described the interaction in The effect is exactly the same So it's The effect is the And the next sentence, the visual and 22 animated guidance ensures the user is never 23 caught between zones, what is that sentence 24 driving at? 25 A. Actually it says automated guidance, TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 198 1 Then at time 1:15 seconds the user again 2 touched the screen, dragged down, let go, which 3 resulted in snapping forward to the Zone above. 4 And that's the end of the video. 5 BY MR. JACOBS: 6 Q. In either of the videos did we see the 7 activity that's described in paragraph 14 of 8 your declaration? 9 10 11 12 13 A. Neither video showed the activity described in paragraph 14 of my declaration. Q. And that's what your declaration calls the under-panning case, correct? A. I don't think -- paragraph 14 doesn't 14 use that term, but I believe this describes the 15 concept that was described earlier as 16 under-panning. 17 Q. And to get back to the way the source 18 code works, that's the case where in the 19 three-stage interaction sequence where, after 20 landing on the screen, the finger is moved less 21 than 20% in the relevant direction -- sorry -- 22 yes, less than one-sixth in the relevant 23 direction such that there is what the 24 declaration describes as a snapback. 25 A. Correct. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 204 1 LaunchTile is motivated by the idea that, if 2 there are some places that are convenient for 3 the interface to go to, then you should make the 4 interface naturally take you to those places and 5 not let you get stuck in inconvenient places. 6 7 Q. So you published an article recently, "The Promise of Zoomable User Interfaces." 8 Mark this as the next in order. 9 (Exhibit No. 222 marked for 10 identification.) 11 BY MR. JACOBS: 12 Q. The Promise of Zoomable User 13 Interfaces by Benjamin B. Bederson, 2011, Taylor 14 & Francis. 15 16 A. What was this published in? This was published in a journal named Behaviour & Information Technology. 17 Q. In 2011? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. On page 4 you have a discussion of 20 Desert Fog citing Jul and Furnas. 21 labels a phenomena that you describe as allowing 22 users to fly through the space going absolutely 23 anywhere including deep into the spaces between 24 objects. 25 A. Desert Fog Do you see that? No, actually. Sorry. TSG Reporting - Worldwide Where are you? (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 205 1 Q. It's on the right-hand column of -- 2 it's such a vivid image I thought it might just 3 jump from the page. 4 page 4, second paragraph. The right-hand column of 5 A. Yes, I see this. 6 Q. So just to maybe start a little bit 7 earlier, different zoomable user interfaces have 8 also had various navigation mechanisms, which 9 are ways for users to move through the space. 10 Again, there is a trade-off between flexibility 11 and usability. 12 fly through the space going absolutely anywhere, 13 including deep into the spaces between objects, 14 resulting in some researchers labeling this 15 phenomenon Desert Fog, Jul and Furnas. 16 say, very few other applications let a user 17 navigate beyond the actual content. 18 19 Some interfaces allow users to Then you Can you explain the contrast you were drawing there between ZUIs and other applications? 20 MR. HUANG: 21 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. Sure. So if we continue 22 reading this paragraph, it describes this idea 23 of not letting you navigate between the actual 24 content. 25 document browser and editor limits navigation to I believe it says, almost every TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 206 1 the available content with the notable exception 2 of Microsoft Excel's scroll bar arrows, Apple 3 numbers, and Google -- I'm sorry -- with the 4 notable exception of Microsoft Excel's scroll 5 bar arrows. 6 spreadsheet, on the other hand, do limit 7 navigation. 8 allow you only to click on objects to zoom into 9 them and click on a zoom out button to zoom out, Apple numbers and Google On the other hand, some interfaces 10 making it impossible to get lost, but also 11 giving less control over exactly where you look. 12 So the point of this paragraph was to 13 describe that there are some applications that let 14 the user navigate in space possibly -- navigating 15 can be simple scrolling or it could be this kind of 16 zooming navigation, which is a little bit more 17 uncommon, or it could be 3-D navigation in a 3-D 18 world. 19 Sorry. I was describing that sometimes you 20 can navigate to a place where there is no content. 21 If there is no content, then you're kind of in a 22 place that essentially -- typically -- represented 23 with an empty screen. 24 because that would make a user feel disoriented 25 since there is nothing on the screen. And that was a concern TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 207 1 And I said that it was more common for 2 applications to stop a user from navigating to a 3 place where there was no content, although it 4 occurred, both in widespread applications like Excel 5 and in many ZUIs, in at least those. 6 Q. So the basic contrast you were drawing 7 was between those ZUIs that are flexible but 8 haven't addressed this problem of getting lost 9 in Desert Fog, and most applications which do 10 constrain you to the space that's filled by 11 content. 12 of your paragraph correctly? 13 14 Is that -- am I capturing the essence MR. HUANG: Objection to the form of the question. 15 THE WITNESS: The paragraph said -- 16 well, it didn't say "most." 17 few applications that let you move to a place 18 where there is no content, although I did 19 describe some, and many constrained you to 20 navigating only within available, visible 21 content. 22 BY MR. JACOBS: 23 Q. It said there were And that -- but you were describing 24 that, as of 2011, there remains this problem in 25 ZUIs of flying through the space going TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 213 1 BY MR. JACOBS: 2 Q. Just as you look at some of the 3 applications, the ZUIs that are listed on the 4 table, do you regard the Apple iPhone, year 5 2007, but the iPhone you're referring to, I 6 guess, is the 2010 version of it, do you regard 7 that as having resolved the problem of getting 8 lost in Desert Fog? 9 A. So in this particular -- in this table 10 I'm to read, the thing that comes closest to the 11 Desert Fog issue is the right-most column that 12 talks about navigation mechanism for zooming, 13 and for the Apple iPhone it says, tap to zoom 14 in, physical button to zoom out. 15 So I think it's probably referring to the 16 home screen application icons where you tap on one 17 of those application icons and it has a zooming 18 transition. 19 icon and you can press the hardware button at the 20 bottom of the device to zoom out. 21 It zooms in to launch the application So at least in that case it solves -- that 22 interface solves the Desert Fog problem as 23 described. 24 external knowledge, you could interpret this to 25 understand that, but it was not explicit in this -- So this is a case where, with some TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 214 1 not fully explicit in this table. 2 MR. JACOBS: Could you just give us 3 like three minutes to make sure -- oh, actually, 4 we need to go one more demo, right? 5 out how to move the blue highlighter in XNav. 6 And so if we can get you over by the video to 7 just demonstrate that mode, that would be great. 8 THE WITNESS: 9 VIDEOGRAPHER: We figured Okay. Off the record at 4:37. 10 (Brief interruption.) 11 VIDEOGRAPHER: 12 4:39. 13 BY MR. JACOBS: 14 Q. Back on the record at Dr. Bederson, we've given you again 15 the Sony Vaio with the XNav on it that we were 16 demonstrating earlier in the deposition, and 17 we've now learned how to move the blue 18 highlighter into the center of the screen and 19 illustrate the case where the blue highlighter 20 is between -- it ends up between email headers 21 when the stylus or the finger is lifted from the 22 screen; is that correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Can you demonstrate that for us? 25 A. Actually right now that highlight is TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 223 1 A. 2 3 Correct. MR. JACOBS: I think we're done. Thank you. 4 MR. HUANG: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you. Thank you. This concludes the 7 deposition of Dr. Bederson. 8 4:57 and it consists of five tapes. 9 Off the record at (Proceedings concluded.) 10 11 12 // (Signature having not been waived, the 13 deposition of BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D. 14 concluded at 4:57 p.m.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 224 1 CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 2 NOTARY PUBLIC 3 4 I, Linda S. Kinkade, RDR, CRR, RMR, CSR, 5 the notarial officer before whom the foregoing 6 proceedings were taken, do hereby certify that the 7 foregoing transcript is a true and correct record of 8 the proceedings; that said proceedings were taken by 9 me stenographically, to the best of my ability, and 10 thereafter reduced to typewriting; and that I am 11 neither counsel for or related to, nor employed by 12 any of the parties to this case and have no 13 interest, financial or otherwise, in its outcome. 14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 15 hand and affixed my notarial seal this 17th day of 16 September 2011. 17 18 19 _______________________________ Linda S. Kinkade 20 21 22 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 23 THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 24 My commission expires: July 14, 2012 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580

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