Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al
Filing
628
RESPONSE to re #623 Order on Administrative Motion to File Under Seal, Apple Inc.s Responsive Claim Construction Brief, Refiled by Court Order (D.N. 623) by Apple Inc.(a California corporation). (Attachments: #1 Declaration of Mark D. Selwyn in Support of Apple's Responsive Claim Construction Brief, #2 Exhibit A, #3 Exhibit B, #4 Exhibit C, #5 Exhibit D, #6 Exhibit E, #7 Exhibit F, #8 Exhibit G, #9 Exhibit H, #10 Exhibit I, #11 Exhibit J, #12 Exhibit K, #13 Exhibit L, #14 Exhibit M, #15 Exhibit N, #16 Exhibit O, #17 Exhibit P, #18 Exhibit Q, #19 Exhibit R, #20 Exhibit S)(Selwyn, Mark) (Filed on 1/13/2012)
EXHIBIT S
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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SAN JOSE DIVISION
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APPLE INC., a California
)
corporation,
)
)
Plaintiff,
)
)
vs.
)
)No. 11-CV-01846LHK
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
)
a Korean entity; SAMSUNG
)
ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC., a
)
New York corporation; SAMSUNG
)
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA, LLC, )
a Delaware limited liability
)
Company,
)
)
Defendants. )
---------------------------------x
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17
VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TONY GIVARGIS, PH.D.
18
Los Angeles, California
19
Tuesday, December 6, 2011
20
21
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
22
23
Reported by:
24
SUSAN A. SULLIVAN, CSR #3522, RPR, CRR
25
JOB NO. 44330
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A
2
the entire.
3
entire document but I'm not sure.
4
Q
I believe I -- what was provided to me was
I'm not sure.
It may have been the
When counsel provided you the entire file
5
history did they specify what you would need to read
6
or you read the whole thing?
7
A
I read the whole thing that was provided to
8
me and I believe it is Exhibit No. 2 in my
9
deposition, in my -- sorry, in my declaration, yes.
10
Q
Your declaration references a number of
11
what were called extrinsic evidence, dictionary
12
definitions and textbooks.
13
selecting those definitions and textbooks excerpts
14
on which you rely?
15
A
Yes.
How did you go about
A couple of principles are applied.
16
One was certainly those needed to be definitions or
17
writings that existed prior to 2005, August 30th,
18
and also tried to find textbooks or dictionary
19
definitions that were concise, to the point, and as
20
precise as possible rather than leaving definitions
21
open ended.
22
Q
23
24
25
Any other principles you used to select the
extrinsic evidence?
A
I also made sure that the sources were
credible; that they were either published by a
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publisher that I recognized or they were -- if they
2
were references on the website, that they were
3
credible and they were published in a place that I
4
would consider reasonable.
5
Q
Did counsel for Apple instruct you where to
6
search, what types of publications to search for
7
extrinsic evidence?
8
MR. SHAH:
9
Object to the extent it calls for
privileged communication, but you can answer it.
10
THE WITNESS:
11
MR. SHAH:
12
the communication.
13
Q
Not necessarily.
They told me --
Again, just a caution on substance of
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Let me help you out.
I
14
don't want to ask you what you spoke with them
15
about, my question is whether you were the one who
16
selected the extrinsic evidence in your declaration
17
or it was provided by counsel.
18
19
20
A
Absolutely, yes, I understand.
I selected
all of those.
Q
In your search for a definition of "applet"
21
in extrinsic sources have you come across any
22
definitions that did not support your opinion?
23
A
Yes, I did.
24
Q
Can you give me examples of those?
25
A
One example of those was Microsoft's
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control panel applet which is -- which was a very
2
sort of exceptional use of the term "applet," a very
3
limited in terms of how widely the term "applet" is
4
used and how Microsoft was using it in that context.
5
That was one example.
6
7
Q
term "applet" exceptional?
8
9
Why do you consider Microsoft's use of the
A
Yes.
Most applets are usually considered
to be Java applets and/or similar to Java, Java,
10
sort of Java-like applets in the sense that they are
11
interpreted, they are an application or an app
12
running within an application.
13
The Microsoft control panel applets are
14
executable codes, they're actually dynamically-
15
linked libraries that do not require interpretation,
16
they run directly on the processor.
17
Q
18
applets.
19
You said that most applets are Java
There are any applets that are not Java
ones?
20
A
Yes, a number of them.
21
Q
Can you list them, please?
22
A
Yes.
For example, there are Python
23
applets, there are AppleScript applets, there are
24
JavaScript applets, there are applets in the context
25
of Flash, the Flash programming environment.
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Q
So if a colleague came up to you and said
2
they're writing an applet you would not necessarily
3
know which one of those languages they were writing
4
it in?
5
A
6
MR. SHAH:
I would automatically assume -Just give me a second.
7
Objection; vague.
8
You can answer if you understand the
9
10
question.
THE WITNESS:
Yes, I would -- I would assume
11
Java applets because those are the most common types
12
of applets.
13
Q
14
BY MS. MAROULIS:
But they're not
exclusive, correct?
15
A
Correct.
16
Q
Besides the reason you stated about why
17
Microsoft was exceptional in use of applets, is
18
there any other reason why you did not pick the
19
Microsoft definition for your declaration?
20
MR. SHAH:
Object to form.
21
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
I felt that that represented
22
a very small percentage of all of the applets that
23
or all of the kinds of applets and it would not be
24
the usual or the common understanding of the term
25
"applet."
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Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Do you agree that at
2
least some people in the programming community when
3
they hear the word "applet" can think of a Microsoft
4
control panel applet?
5
A
Some, yes.
6
Q
And do you agree that was the case in 2005
7
as well?
8
A
Yes.
9
Q
Besides coming across the Microsoft control
10
panel applet, did you see any other definition of
11
"applets" in your research that diverged from the
12
one you picked for your declaration?
13
MR. SHAH:
14
THE WITNESS:
15
Q
16
17
18
19
Objection; vague.
No.
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Did you see any
definition of AppleScript applets?
A
I first came to -- to see AppleScript
applets when I read Mr. Cole's declaration.
Q
And upon reading Mr. Cole's declaration did
20
it remind you that there were in fact AppleScript
21
applets back in 2005?
22
A
Yes, that is correct.
23
Q
And in your research did you come across
24
25
the Python applets?
A
I was aware of Python applets but I did not
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2
3
necessarily come across a writing or a textbook.
Q
Is it correct that Python applets existed
in 2005?
4
A
Yes, that is correct.
5
Q
In your research did you come across Flash
6
7
program applets?
A
I was very well aware of Flash applets but
8
I did not find or obtain or look for documents
9
describing Flash applets.
10
11
Q
You are aware they existed in 2005 as well,
correct?
12
A
Yes.
13
Q
Are you familiar with Linux applets?
14
A
I am not.
15
Q
Let's turn to your declaration on Page 5.
16
What is the invention of the '711 patent?
17
MR. SHAH:
Objection; vague.
18
THE WITNESS:
I can summarize the '711 patent as
19
being a method or a teaching of how to accommodate
20
multitasking on a mobile device.
21
22
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Is there any reference to
Java in this patent?
23
A
May I take a look?
24
Q
Absolutely.
25
A
No.
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2
operating-system independent?
A
This passage does not make reference to
3
operating-system independent.
4
association between an applet and an application
5
module, together with the claim language and the
6
prosecution, the file history, does suggest to me
7
that the applet requires the application module as
8
a, sort of as a context, and that relationship is
9
what one would expect from Java applets or Java-like
10
11
However, the
applets, that interpreted.
Q
Setting aside the claim language and
12
prosecution history, is it correct that there's
13
nothing in this particular passage that indicates
14
operating-system independence?
15
16
17
18
A
Nothing in the passage mentions anything
about being operating-system independent, yes.
Q
Let's take a look at the claim language.
For example, Claim 1 in Column 7, do you see that?
19
A
Yes.
20
Q
The relevant limitation is "Generating a
21
music background play object, wherein the music
22
background play object includes an application
23
module including at least one applet."
24
25
Is there any mention of operating-system
independence here?
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A
No.
2
Q
Is there anything in this claim that you
3
see that supports your notion of operating-system
4
independence?
5
A
What I see in this sentence, passage, is,
6
again, the association between an applet running or
7
an applet that is within an application module and
8
that association to me suggests a Java-like
9
interpreted environment.
10
11
Q
Did you review the testimony of the
inventor of this patent?
12
A
Yes.
I reviewed a subset of it.
13
Q
Did you see that the inventor who was
14
developing this technology was working with system-
15
dependent applets?
16
A
That is correct, yes.
17
Q
Which system-dependent applets was he
18
19
20
21
working with, to your understanding?
MR. SHAH:
If you need to see any documents to
refresh your recollection, you can ask.
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
I think this one I can
22
answer without the document, but it was a Qualcomm
23
chipset.
24
25
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Do you disagree that the
technology he was working on is described by Claim
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1?
2
MR. SHAH:
Object to the extent it calls for a
3
legal conclusion.
4
THE WITNESS:
5
6
I have not formed that position
yet.
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Do you understand that he
7
was asked during deposition about the embodiments of
8
the patent?
9
10
MR. SHAH:
Same objection.
THE WITNESS:
11
Q
I'm not sure exactly what he
was asked.
12
Yes.
BY MS. MAROULIS:
If the technology that he
13
was working on embodies this claim would you agree
14
with me that the claim includes applets that are
15
also system dependent?
16
MR. SHAH:
Same objection.
17
THE WITNESS:
Based on -- I recognize that the
18
inventor was working with a system that was
19
OS-dependent, specifically the Qualcom chipset.
20
However, that use of the term "applet" within that
21
context was unusual or it was not consistent with
22
the common understanding of the term "applet" at the
23
time and the '711 patent does not make that
24
distinction clear.
25
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
If the '711 patent does
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not make a distinction clear between system
2
dependent and system independent, do you agree then
3
that includes both?
4
MR. SHAH:
5
THE WITNESS:
Objection to form.
It could include, it could be
6
both, but the common understanding again would be
7
that it is consistent with applets as being
8
OS-independent, as being the more likely case.
9
10
11
12
13
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
It is more likely but it
is not exclusively so, correct?
MR. SHAH:
Objection; mischaracterizes his
testimony.
THE WITNESS:
If I were to read this or if
14
somebody who would be familiar with the area were to
15
read this in 2005 it would be assumed or it would be
16
understood for an applet to be an OS-independent
17
applet.
18
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Would a person reading
19
this in 2005 be aware of applets in other language
20
environments?
21
A
22
MS. MAROULIS:
23
Yes.
Okay.
We can take a five-minute
break.
24
THE WITNESS:
Thank you.
25
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
The time is 9:54 a.m. and we
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are off the record.
2
(Recess)
3
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
4
are back on the record.
5
The time is 9:59 a.m. and we
BY MS. MAROULIS:
6
Q
Mr. Givargis, before the break we were
7
discussing the '711 patent.
Other than the
8
"specification," quote, we discussed and the coding
9
language, there's no other portion of the '711
10
patent that you are relying on in your declaration,
11
correct?
12
A
I believe so, yes.
13
MS. MAROULIS:
I would like to now switch to the
14
prosecution history which is Exhibit 5 and, for the
15
record, the document control numbers are
16
SAMNDCA00007840 through 8459.
17
18
19
Q
What is your understanding, sir, of what a
file history is?
A
Yes.
It has three components, some of it
20
are identifying information or titles of various
21
documents and so on.
22
which is sort of the examiner's rejections and a
23
description of why those rejections are followed by
24
a response to the office action which comes from the
25
applicant in response to the rejections.
Then it has another component
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the relevant passage you were relying on appears on
2
Page 7873 of Exhibit 5?
3
A
This appears to be a summary of the
4
interview that is consistent with the passage I have
5
been relying on, yes.
6
Q
7
interview?
8
A
No, I did not.
9
Q
So the only record of this interview you
10
Did you interview any participants of this
are relying on is this summary here, correct?
11
A
12
text, yes.
13
Q
And the --
14
A
Surrounding it.
15
Q
And the followup filings by the applicants.
16
A
Correct.
17
Q
Is there anything in this interview summary
18
This summary and some of the additional
that mentions Java?
19
A
No, there is not.
20
Q
And is there anything in this summary that
21
22
23
mentions applet being system independent?
MR. SHAH:
Objection.
The document speaks for
itself.
24
THE WITNESS:
25
Q
No, there is not.
BY MS. MAROULIS:
What in particular about
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this summary that leads you to believe that it
2
supports your opinion?
3
A
Yes.
The term "applet" and how it is used
4
as being an application module includes at least one
5
applet; that phrase, once again, that association
6
between an applet requiring an application module to
7
exist.
8
Q
9
Can both an applet and application module
exist even if applet is system dependent?
10
MR. SHAH:
11
THE WITNESS:
12
Objection; vague.
Yes.
You may have to tell me, elaborate a little
13
bit more on how this, how this applet is system
14
dependent.
15
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Do you agree that in
16
general you can have a system-dependent applet and
17
the application module to exist at the same, in the
18
same space?
19
A
You can have a system-dependent applet
20
separately from having an applet that is operating-
21
system independent that runs within an application
22
system module if that is the question, yes.
23
Q
In the context that the inventor of this
24
patent testified about where he was working with
25
Qualcom on this technology, isn't that correct that
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he had the application module and a system-dependent
2
applet?
3
MR. SHAH:
Objection; calls for speculation.
4
THE WITNESS:
Based on what I know it is not
5
clear to me if both of those existed in the same
6
system.
7
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Is there anything that
8
leads you to believe that the application module did
9
not exist in the system that Mr. Jeong was working
10
11
with?
A
Based on the very little I know about that
12
effort, it is not clear to me if there was an
13
application module in addition to the applet or
14
if -- if there was no application module in addition
15
to the applet.
16
Q
If the technology he was working with was
17
the embodiment of the claims of the '711 patent
18
would you agree that it would include both the
19
application module and the system-dependent applet?
20
MR. SHAH:
Object to the extent it calls for a
21
legal conclusion.
22
THE WITNESS:
I believe I'm not familiar enough
23
with the system he was building as I mentioned
24
earlier.
25
I do know it involved things that were called
I know it involved the Qualcom chipset and
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applets which were OS-dependent but to the extent of
2
what other application modules existed in this
3
system or what other software systems were executing
4
in the environment, I do not have enough information
5
about that to draw a conclusion, yes.
6
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Did you review his notes
7
relating to the system that he was building that was
8
part of the '711 patent?
9
10
A
I recall being provided some notes that
were in Korean which I was unable to understand.
11
In those notes there were certain English
12
phrases or words, including the word "applet," and
13
so I did come across those but I was unable to draw
14
any conclusions from that or to be able to
15
understand anything about the system.
16
17
Q
Did you ask counsel for an English
translation of the document?
18
A
19
MR. SHAH:
20
21
22
23
24
25
I may have indicated -I will just caution you not to reveal
the substance of the communications between us.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
Sorry to interrupt.
Could you bring your microphone a little
bit higher?
It is sliding.
THE WITNESS:
Thank you.
It is possible I may have asked
that a translation would help.
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2
3
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Did counsel provide you
with a translation?
A
I do not recall having reviewed the
4
translated versions.
5
MR. SHAH:
Just I would like to state for the
6
record we only received permission for Dr. Givargis
7
to review the declaration from Cole on Sunday night.
8
9
MS. MAROULIS:
I'm going to mark the next
exhibit, Exhibit 6, and this one bears a protective
10
order designation of "Highly Confidential -
11
Attorneys' Eyes Only."
12
SAMNDCA00139800.
It has production range
13
(Givargis Exhibit 6, a document, Bates No.
14
SAMNDCA00139800, marked for identification,
15
as of this date.)
16
17
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Dr. Givargis, have you
seen Exhibit 6 before?
18
A
Yes.
19
declaration.
20
Q
More recently as part of Mr. Cole's
Did you understand that this was the
21
working records of the inventor of the '711 patent
22
relating to conception reduction to practice?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
And this one is in English, correct?
25
A
That is correct, yes.
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Q
So the answer is no?
2
A
Yes.
3
Q
Let's turn to Exhibit 5 on Pages 7879
4
through 7885.
5
6
No.
MR. SHAH:
Take whatever time you need to review
the document.
7
THE WITNESS:
8
Q
9
10
Yes.
BY MS. MAROULIS:
The particular document
that I will be asking you about is called "Remarks/
Argument," do you see that?
11
A
Yes.
12
Q
Is that a paper that you relied on in your
13
report?
14
A
Let me just read through it one second.
15
Q
Take your time.
16
A
Yes.
17
MR. SHAH:
Let me just -- if you need to refer
18
to your report to answer your questions, you can do
19
so.
20
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
If it would help you, the
21
portion of your report that reviews the file history
22
starts with Page 8.
23
declaration you cite to the passage that starts on
24
Page 6 of the file history.
25
In Paragraph 37 of your
This passage does not discuss applet being
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system independent, correct?
2
A
That is correct, yes.
3
Q
What about this passage do you believe
4
5
supports your opinion?
A
This passage also refers to, includes an
6
application module including at least one applet so
7
there is this applet being included within an
8
application module property that is consistent with
9
the Java-like execution environment of applets which
10
11
I rely on for my definition of "applets."
Q
Can this notion of inclusion of the applet
12
within the application that you refer to exist
13
outside Java?
14
MR. SHAH:
Objection; form.
15
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
This notion of inclusion is
16
actually a very, very common design, sort of a
17
paradigm where one application serves as a host
18
interpreting another application or a set of
19
application on, if you will, on top.
20
the Java model of execution where the Java codes or
21
Java applications are interpreted by the host
22
application.
23
consistent with all interpreted language like Ruby
24
or PHP or even AppleScript and JavaScript.
25
Q
For example, a browser.
BY MS. MAROULIS:
And this is
It is also
In the context of the
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host application can an applet be still system
2
dependent or are you saying it is always system
3
independent?
4
A
5
Typically.
The purpose of this inclusion or this
6
framework that I just described is to make the
7
applet OS-independent.
8
example or an exceptional case or a scenario where
9
one would build an applet that bypasses that notion
I'm certain there is an
10
so -- it is not universally the case but commonly
11
the case.
12
Q
Can you give me an example of such a
13
situation where you would have a host application
14
and still have a system-dependent applet?
15
A
Well, one example could be an applet that
16
exploits certain weakness or error or shortcoming of
17
the host application to gain access to the
18
underneath operating system, so in that sense that
19
applet is certainly OS-dependent.
20
In another example, it could be that that
21
applet is designed to take advantage of certain
22
resources of Operating System A and those resources
23
may not be available on Operating System B and in
24
that case too that applet would be dependent on
25
Operating System A and not portable to Operating
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I do recognize that there are sometimes in
2
conversational computer science used
3
interchangeably.
4
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Do you agree these two
5
terms can be used interchangeably in the context of
6
the '711 patent?
7
MR. SHAH:
Objection; asked and answered.
8
THE WITNESS:
Yes, my answer would be the same.
9
I believe that it is important to recognize that an
10
application is more than just a program but that in
11
the field of computer science oftentimes a program
12
is used when an application would work equally as
13
well.
14
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Besides Paragraph 11, are
15
there any other portions of Mr. Cole's declaration
16
that you agree with?
17
MR. SHAH:
18
19
Take whatever time you need to review
the document.
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
If you don't mind, I will
20
quickly look at the exhibits.
Not the exhibits but
21
the description in the declaration.
22
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Please go ahead.
23
A
I believe we both agree that the '711
24
patent and the prosecution history does not define
25
the term "applet" adequately.
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2
Q
Do you believe Mr. Cole says that applet is
not adequately defined by the intrinsic record?
3
A
Mr. Cole mentions that there is limited
4
discussion in the specification and claims of the
5
'711 patent, as well as the prosecution history, as
6
to the definition of the term "applet."
7
consistent with my understanding of my view of
8
things that the term "applet" is not adequately
9
defined in the patent.
10
11
Q
That is
Mr. Cole himself does not use the word
"inadequate" or "not adequate," right?
12
A
That is correct, yes.
13
Q
So you agree with Mr. Cole that there is
14
limited intrinsic material in which to rely on.
15
A
That is correct, yes.
16
Q
Anything else that you and Mr. Cole agree
A
Yes.
17
18
on?
In the "Extrinsic Evidence" section I
19
do agree with many of the examples that are
20
presented; for example, AppleScript applets, Linux
21
applets, Ruby applets, as being the kinds of
22
applets, different, not necessarily Java applets.
23
However, all of these, or at least the ones I just
24
enumerated, do follow the Java-like interpreted
25
nature of applets.
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Q
And by that you mean AppleScript ones and
2
Ruby ones?
3
A
By that I mean AppleScript applets, Linux
4
applets, Ruby applets and the Flash and Visual Basic
5
applets.
6
language.
Those are all based on an interpreted
7
Q
Are any of these applets system dependent?
8
A
In my view what makes an applet system
9
independent is the fact that it can be transported
10
or transferred from one, one environment, one
11
operating system to another without the need of
12
reprogramming it or, you know, verbatim, in essence,
13
without having to redesign it.
14
interpreted -- the interpreted nature of these other
15
kinds of applets is consistent with that model.
16
Q
And these
So you are saying that, for example,
17
AppleScript applet is an operating-system
18
independent applet?
19
A
In my view AppleScript applets are
20
specifically or mostly found or maybe even entirely
21
found within the Mac OS operating-system
22
environment, but my definition of being operating-
23
system independent is not based on availability of
24
an applet or the fact that it is only popular or
25
used within a particular operating system, but it is
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1
the interpreted nature of it which makes it a very
2
high-level program easily portable to, in the sense
3
that it would not require reprogramming to another
4
operating system.
5
applets are scripts that can be executed on another
6
operating system.
7
Q
In that sense, yes, AppleScript
Does the definition of operating-system
8
independent that you just used appear anywhere in
9
your expert declaration?
10
A
I do not think so.
11
Q
When did you form this opinion about what
12
it means to be operating-system independent?
13
A
In the process of research and on this case
14
it was necessary to think and to try to formulate a
15
working definition so that I could actually do my
16
work.
17
18
19
20
Q
Is there any reason why you did not include
this definition in your declaration?
A
No particular reason other than I felt that
it is -- it is well understood in this case.
21
Q
22
strike that.
23
In your declaration you primarily define --
In your declaration you refer to operating-
24
system independence as equivalent to Java most of
25
the time, correct?
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2
3
MR. SHAH:
Objection.
The document speaks for
itself.
THE WITNESS:
In my document I use Java as a
4
very good example of an operating-system independent
5
environment in programming language paradigm, you
6
will say.
7
operating-system independent kind of applet for
8
language.
9
Q
But it certainly is not the only
BY MS. MAROULIS:
The definition of
10
operating-system independent you just used today is
11
broader than what you used in your declaration,
12
correct?
13
14
15
16
17
MR. SHAH:
Objection; mischaracterizes his
testimony.
THE WITNESS:
Can you refer me to the definition
I have used in the declaration?
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
I understand your
18
declaration to equate Java and operating-system
19
independence; is that right?
20
21
22
A
It is the case that Java is an operating-
system independent programming language.
Q
Nowhere in your declaration have you
23
actually stated the definition of the operating-
24
system independence that you used a few minutes ago
25
when I asked you a question; is that right?
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2
MR. SHAH:
Objection; the document speaks for
itself.
3
THE WITNESS:
4
Q
That is correct, yes.
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Now Mr. Cole considers
5
the applets you and I have been discussing systems,
6
operating-systems dependent, correct?
7
A
Mr. Cole lists these applets and in some
8
cases draws that conclusion.
For example, in the
9
case of AppleScript it says that AppleScript is a
10
system scripting language used for the Macintosh OS
11
operating system.
12
13
14
Q
Do you disagree with him with respect to
that?
A
I do not disagree with him but I'm not
15
certain if what Mr. Cole, for instance, says in 52
16
eliminates the possibility of AppleScript being
17
operating-system independent.
18
19
20
Q
Would you be able to run an AppleScript
applets on a Windows computer?
A
If I could obtain the specification for
21
AppleScript programming language, the scripting
22
language, and if I were to build an interpreter that
23
ran natively on Windows, then I could take an
24
AppleScript applet and, without modification, run it
25
or interpret it on the Windows environment.
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THE WITNESS:
2
Q
That is my understanding, yes.
BY MS. MAROULIS:
In reviewing the
3
extrinsic evidence sources that Mr. Cole cites did
4
you seen any sources that you have previously
5
encountered in your day-to-day job as a programming
6
professor, an expert?
7
MR. SHAH:
8
THE WITNESS:
9
Object to form.
The one that I would be most
familiar with is Python applets.
Python is -- has
10
become a popular language and it is used heavily in
11
universities for teaching.
12
13
14
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Do you agree with Mr.
Cole's description of Python applets?
A
I recognize that Python applets are used in
15
the context of Linux or Ubuntu, a particular
16
distribution of Linux.
17
written in the language Python which is an
18
interpreted language and Python is available for
19
Windows, Python is available for various flavors of
20
Linux, there is even a Python interpreter that would
21
run on a MAC OS, so I believe the conclusion that
22
these applets, these Python applets are specific on
23
Linux or Ubuntu is false.
24
25
Q
However, Python applets are
So you don't believe that Python apps --
pardon me, Python applets are systems dependent in
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the Linux program?
2
MR. SHAH:
3
THE WITNESS:
Objection; mischaracterizes.
Python is a programming language
4
independent of Linux and it is an interpreted
5
language and there exists interpreters on a number
6
of platforms that I know of including Windows, Mac
7
OS and Linux that would support executing a Python
8
applet on those other operating systems.
9
10
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
You would only be able
to -- strike that.
11
You would only be able to execute those
12
applets with a help of a translator or interpreter,
13
correct?
14
15
16
A
That is correct.
And it is applicable to
interpreted languages in general, yes.
Q
And the same is true of all the applets
17
listed in Mr. Cole's declaration on Paragraphs 14 --
18
strike that.
19
A
Paragraphs 51 through 58, correct?
That is not correct.
51 is a control panel
20
applet that Microsoft has, has used.
21
particular applet is -- is one that is OS-dependent
22
and does not follow the interpreted nature of some
23
of these other applets that we have been looking at.
24
25
Q
This
You are referring to Paragraph 51 that
describes the desktop applets, correct?
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A
That is correct, yes.
2
Q
So that's an example of an applet that is
3
strictly systems dependent, operating-systems
4
dependent?
5
A
Microsoft-controlled panel applets are
6
operating-system dependent.
7
Microsoft operating system.
8
9
10
Q
I think we've talked about AppleScript and
Linux applets before.
A
In particular, the
Yes.
What about the Ruby applet?
Ruby applets are also interpreted and
11
the Ruby language is an interpreted language.
12
Applets written in this language can be executed by
13
any translator or interpreter available on a
14
particular platform.
15
16
Q
And, again, without a translator it only
can run on the window-specific environment, correct?
17
MR. SHAH:
Objection; calls for speculation.
18
THE WITNESS:
Any Ruby program would just be a
19
file and unusable unless there is a translater
20
available to parse and interpret and translate
21
instructions to in this case Windows.
22
Q
BY MS. MAROULIS:
Are you familiar with the
23
Flash applets mentioned in Paragraph 57 of Mr.
24
Cole's declaration?
25
A
Yes, I'm familiar with Flash to the extent
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that I know there is a Flash language and there is a
2
Flash Plug In or player that is very, in common use,
3
and that it follows the same model of Ruby or Python
4
applets that we were discussing earlier but it has
5
an emphasis towards graphical display and video
6
streaming and multimedia in general.
7
Q
Is it systems dependent or independent?
8
A
Flash applets would require a Flash player.
9
10
11
Any system that supports the Flash player can
operate or run a Flash applet.
Q
So would you agree with me that Flash
12
applets are systems, operating-systems dependent
13
insofar as they need to have a Flash Plug In to
14
operate?
15
16
17
A
If you were to call the Flash Plug In an
operating system then yes.
Q
Can you please review the portion of Mr.
18
Cole's declaration that starts with Paragraph 59 and
19
is entitled "Applet Does Not Have to be Operating
20
System Independent" And let me know if there are any
21
portions that you agree with.
22
A
So in section, in Paragraph 59 I do agree
23
that applet, the term "applet" is an overloaded
24
term, it has been defined in many, many ways.
25
However, most, the common or the rule when it comes
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