Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 973

Declaration of Cyndi Wheeler in Support of #930 Administrative Motion to File Under Seal Samsung's Motion for Summary Judgment filed byApple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit 1, #2 Exhibit 2, #3 Exhibit 3, #4 Exhibit 4, #5 Exhibit 5, #6 Exhibit 6, #7 Exhibit 7, #8 Exhibit 8, #9 Exhibit 9, #10 Exhibit 10, #11 Exhibit 11, #12 Exhibit 12, #13 Exhibit 13, #14 Exhibit 14, #15 Exhibit 15, #16 Exhibit 16, #17 Exhibit 17, #18 Declaration Of Mark D. Selwyn In Support Of Samsungs Administrative Motion To File Documents Under Seal Re Samsungs Motion For Summary Judgment, #19 Proposed Order [Proposed] Order Granting Samsungs Administrative Motion To File Documents Under Seal Re Samsungs Motion For Summary Judgment)(Related document(s) #930 ) (Bartlett, Jason) (Filed on 5/24/2012)

Exhibit 13

EXHIBIT 18
FILED UNDER SEAL

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION
CASE NO. 11 CV 01846 LHK

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APPLE, INC, a California
corporation,

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Plaintiff,
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vs.
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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
a Korean business entity;
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.,
a New York corporation;
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA, LLC,
a Delaware limited liability company,

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Defendants.
_________________________________________/

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HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
DEPOSITION OF JOSHUA STRICKON, PH.D.
Miami, Florida
Thursday, October 20, 2011

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Reported by:
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DARLINE MARIE WEST, RPR, FRP, CLR
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Job No. 42680
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Q. Well, first of all, it's the 3D cameras are
those 3-dimensional cameras, the types of cameras
we've spoken about?
A. Yeah.
Q. Not a touchscreen?
A. No.
Q. How about Sony SmartScan? Is that a
touchscreen device?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacking
foundation.
THE WITNESS: It's a touch-sensing
device.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. What type of touch technology does it use?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation.
THE WITNESS: In reading the paper, it
appears that it uses mutual capacitance.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. In reading the paper, did it detect
multitouch?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacking
foundation, vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: Yes.

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BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Let's talk briefly about the Mitsubishi
DiamondTouch, you said?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. What is the Mitsubishi DiamondTouch device?
A. It's a tabletop large touchscreen that
enables multiple people to touch the screen at the
same time. And distinguish who is actually touching.
Q. So, then, it detects multitouch?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Vague and
ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: It detects a single touch
from multiple people.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. So I could have my hand on it and you can
have your hand on it and it will detect both of our
touches?
A. Yes.
Q. What if I had both of my hands on it?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation. Vague and ambiguous. Calls for
expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: My experience, using the
device, it actually -- since it uses
projection scan, it will actually give you

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four points because there's an ambiguity
between whether you're touching one wire or
the other wire.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. You actually use the Mitsubishi
DiamondTouch?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you use the Mitsubishi
DiamondTouch?
A. Probably at a conference, sometime before
then. Or during school when I visited their lab.
Q. Where's their lab located?
A. It's closed.
Q. Oh, where was their lab located?
A. Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Q. Was there a particular contact that you met
with?
A. Paul Dietz.
Q. Now, what type of technology did you say
that the DiamondTouch used?
A. It's projective capacitive -- it's
projection scan capacitive sensing.
Q. What do you mean by "projective scan
capacitive sensing"?
A. It's a technology in which you have rows

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and columns.
Q. Okay.
A. And you read the rows and then you read the
columns. So you have these lines that are projected
across the surface. So you end up with a profile of
the self-capacitance in a vertical, in a single X
axis and then a single Y axis. And from that you can
overlay the two sets of data to determine X and Y
locations of a point.
Q. I think you answered this. You said it
used self-capacitive technology and mutual
capacitance?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it -- strike that.
All right. Let's talk a little bit about
the Microsoft Surface product. I should back up.
You said you used the DiamondTouch product.
Have you ever used the SmartSkin product?
A. No.
Q. Now, the Microsoft Surface product, have
you ever used the Microsoft Surface product?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you use the Microsoft Surface product
before it became Microsoft Surface?
A. Yes.

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A. Because it says in here that it's -- they
talk about the -- the trace orient -- the trace
geometry, the layers stack up, as well as the fact
that this is self-capacitance, which is determined by
a language in the paper which states that sensor is
detecting change and a trace capacitance to free
space. That implies that it's self-capacitance.
Q. Where do you see that statement?
A. On page 30301 in the -- in the first
paragraph right there.
Q. The first paragraph -A. The first incomplete paragraph.
Q. On the second column?
A. On the second column. It says, "Because
the sensor is detecting change in a traces
capacitance to free space."
Q. Okay.
A. "Sensor can only detect objects that can
significantly add trace capacitance."
Q. Now, you previously testified that you're
familiar with the company Synaptics, correct?
A. Yeah.
Q. Have you ever met with Synaptics or anybody
at Synaptics?
A. No.

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Q. Not in the course of your work at Apple?
A. No.
Q. Were you familiar with the Clear Pad
device?
A. No.
Q. Do you know A. K. Leeper?
A. No.
(Strickon Deposition Exhibit 788, Document
entitled "SmartSkin: An Infrastructure for Freehand
Manipulation on Interactive Surfaces, was marked for
identification.)
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. I've marked as Exhibit 788 a document with
Bates number APLND C71287 to 71294. Does this
document look familiar to you?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you last see this document?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Instruct the
witness not to answer to the extent it would
involve the disclosure of attorney-client
communications or activity at the direction
of counsel, if any.
THE WITNESS: Outside of any privileged
session, the last time I saw this was at the
deposition that I gave in August.

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BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Now, you were familiar with the SmartSkin
product before you filed the patent application in
became the '607 patent, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation.
THE WITNESS: I was familiar with
SmartSkin. It wasn't a product, though.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. You were familiar with the Sony SmartSkin,
though, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Did you ever meet Rekimoto, who's the
author of this article?
A. No.
Q. You're -- you're aware and you know that
SmartSkin is a capacitive touch sensor, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation.
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. And you agree that SmartSkin is a

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mutual-capacitance, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation. Calls for expert opinion.
THE WITNESS: Yes. My understanding
and my experience with the sorts of devices
is that it is a mutual-capacitance.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Okay. Let's take a look at Figure 2, which
is on the page with Bates No. 71288, and this figure
is captioned "The SmartSkin Sensor Configuration," a
mesh-shaped grid is used to determine the hands
position and shape.
This shows a grid of electrodes, right?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Calls for
expert opinion.
THE WITNESS: From my familiarity with
the paper and what's described here, it
appears to -- to show a grid of electrodes.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Okay. And each array of electrodes is on a
different layer, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation. Vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: It doesn't show here
about the layers.

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the first not such a full paragraph in the second
column. It actually starts in the first column.
Would you read that paragraph, and let me
know when you're finished.
A. Okay.
Q. So the SmartSkin is able to recognize
multiple touches, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation. Calls for expert opinion
testimony. Vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: According to this
paragraph, it says that I can recognize
multiple objects; example, hands.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Did you ever discuss the SmartSkin product
with anybody at Sony?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation.
THE WITNESS: No.
(Strickon Deposition Exhibit 789, Patent,
was marked for identification.)
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Marked as Exhibit 789 a document with the
Bates numbers SAMNDCA 31524 to 31557. Have you seen
this patent before?

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MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Instruct the
witness not to disclose the contents of any
attorney-client communications or
discussions. Subject to that instruct, he
may answer.
THE WITNESS: Outside of any privileged
conversations, I saw this at my last
deposition.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Had you seen this patent before your last
deposition?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Are you familiar with a company
called Entrig?
A. I think I've heard of it before.
Q. What is your understanding of what Entrig
is?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation.
THE WITNESS: From looking at the
patent previously, I was under the
impression that they made potentially some
sort of capacitive sensor.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Okay. I'm going to direct you to take a

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look at Figure 2, which is on the page with Bates
number 31528, and I'd also like you to take a look at
the associated description of Figure 2, which is in
column 13 on the page with Bates number 31550
beginning at line 30.
Would you read that paragraph beginning at
line 30 in column 13 associated with Figure 2, and
then let me know when you're finished.
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. Now, looking at column 13, this
patent's describing a two-dimensional sensor matrix,
correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Calls for
expert opinion testimony. The document
speaks for itself.
THE WITNESS: I haven't looked at this
entire document. So I couldn't exactly say.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Did you read the paragraph in column 13
beginning at line 30?
A. Yeah.
Q. Okay. Does that paragraph disclose a -- a
two-dimensional sensor matrix?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Calls for
expert opinion testimony.

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THE WITNESS: This paragraph says a
two-dimensional sensor matrix 20 lies, and
transparent layer over an electronic display
device.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Now, do you see below it says, "At each
junction between two conductors a certain minimal
amount of capacitance exists," and it goes on to say
"A finger touches the sensor 20 at a certain position
and increases the capacitance between the first
conductor line 24 on the orthogonal conductor line,
which happens to be at or closest to the touch
position."
Do you agree that that's talking about
measuring the capacitance between two conductor
lines?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Calls for
expert opinion testimony.
THE WITNESS: This doesn't describe
about measuring. It just describes the
finger -- according to this document, that
increases -- increases the capacitance
between the first conductor and the
orthogonal conductor.

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BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Marked as Exhibit 790, this is provisional
application for a patent, Application 60/40662. Does
this look familiar to you?
A. I've never seen this.
Q. Okay. Would you turn to page 4 in this
document. You see where it says 4.2 sensor? Do you
see that?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Would you read that first paragraph and let
me know when you're finished.
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. Would you agree with me that this
talks about two different layers of traces?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Documents
speaks for itself. Lacks foundation.
THE WITNESS: It says right there the
grid is made of two layers.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Would you agree with me that each of those
two layers contains conductors that are parallel to
each other?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Vague and
ambiguous. Lacks foundation.
THE WITNESS: It says one of the layers

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contains a set of parallel conductors. The
other layer contains a set of parallel
conductor orthogonal to the set of the first
layer.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. So both layers contain a set of parallel
conductors, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. The document
speaks for itself.
THE WITNESS: I believe that's what the
document says.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Turn to the next page, to page 5. Take a
look at that first paragraph and read that to
yourself. Let me know when you're finished.
A. Okay.
Q. All right. So this document mentions that
ITO can be used as a conductive material, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Document
speaks for itself.
THE WITNESS: The document says that
"The present invention sensor can be
implemented on other transparent conductive
materials such as ITO."

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BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Take a look in the last paragraph on that
page 5. Starts out "In one embodiment, the
transparent sensor." Do you see that? Read that
paragraph and let me know had when you're finished.
I think it goes on to page 6.
A. Okay.
Q. Now, this paragraph is discussing building
a sensor using three layers, correct?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Lacks
foundation. Vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: Yes. It says in one
embodiment the transparent sensor is built
of three different layers.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Two of the layers are used for the
conductive grid lines, correct?
A. It says, two layers are used for the grid
of lines, one for X and one for Y.
Q. Do you think it's discussing something
other than conductive lines?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Calls for
speculation. Calls for expert opinion.
Lacks foundation.

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BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Feel free to read some of the paragraphs
around that, if you'd like to get some context. Take
your time.
A. I mean, this is the first time seeing this.
This is quite a bit of information in here.
Q. Understood.
A. It will take me some time to sort through
it and understand what's going on. I mean, they're
expert in what they're doing or have an experience in
what this is.
Q. Let me help direct you a little bit. We
previously read the first paragraph in the sensor
section where we discussed the grid being made of two
layers, each layer containing a set of parallel
conductors. Do remember that?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Form.
Misstates the testimony.
THE WITNESS: Which paragraph?
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. First paragraph under "4.2 Sensor."
A. Okay.
Q. Do you have any reason to believe that it's
talking about some other grid of lines other than
those conductor lines?

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A. Not specifically.
Q. But do you recall the SmartSkin paper?
A. Yes.
Q. Why do you recall the SmartSkin paper?
A. I recall it because we were in talks with
FingerWorks and potentially using their technology to
create a self-capacitance transparent
multitouchscreen, and I was never fully satisfied
with the -- that solution as it was -- seemed overly
complicated, expensive, and required numerous
components. So I was looking for a simpler way of
doing that.
Q. Why was the FingerWorks solution overly
complicated?
A. Essentially, instead of having a row and
column structure like we do in the '607 patent, it
required having essentially every intersection be
directly tied to an IO pin. So, rather -- so,
basically, squared the number of complexity of number
of chips that we would need.
Q. So the -- the FingerWorks solution was
self-capacitive, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And then the -- but the SmartSkin was
mutual-capacitive, correct?

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A. Yes.
Q. And the only thing that the SmartSkin
solution wasn't was transparent, right?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Vague and
ambiguous. Lacks foundation.
THE WITNESS: No. I mean, beyond what
they show as strictly from the hardware
standpoint, there was no information in that
with regard to the algorithms for detecting
the points and tracking the multiple points
from frame to frame and all the signal
processing that you would have to do to make
this work on a transparent screen.
Furthermore, it didn't talk about or
address some of the specific noises,
characteristics that would be specific to
the transparent screen. And also it didn't
discuss any of the optical problems that we
had to solve with regard to the transparent
screen.
And Apple also imposed on us additional
engineering requirements, design
requirements, such as the -- the black mask
that went around the border to hide the
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they wanted on the glass.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. You never met with any of the people at
Sony who worked on SmartSkin, right?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever try to set up a meeting with
them?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Calls for
speculation.
THE WITNESS: Mostly because they're in
Japan and they speak Japanese, and there
wasn't -- and it was actually an older paper
at the time, and I knew that this wasn't
something that they were actively continuing
to work on.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Do you know whether they created a
mutual-capacitive multitouch transparent touchscreen?
A. As far as I know, they didn't. They didn't
present that in any other form.
Q. So you haven't seen any sort of articles
that said they created it. But you don't know if
they actually created it in the lab, do you?

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MR. BARQUIST: Objection.
Argumentative. Lacks foundation. Asked and
answered.
THE WITNESS: I don't know what they've
done other than what they presented. The
SmartSkin paper came out of their research
labs, and generally everything in their
research labs is usually presented to the
public in some form.
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Do you think the engineers from Sony who
worked on SmartSkin had the knowledge and education
to create a multitouch mutual-capacitive transparent
touchscreen?
MR. BARQUIST: Objection. Calls for
speculation, and vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: I can't speculate as to
the what knowledge they had.
(Strickon Deposition Exhibit 792, E-mail,
was marked for identification.)
BY MS. DUCCA:
Q. Marked as Exhibit 792, a document with
Bates numbers -- well, one Bates number,
APLNDC 16600. Do you recognize this document?
A. Okay.

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