Weather Underground, Incorporated v. Navigation Catalyst Systems, Incorporated et al

Filing 189

MOTION for Partial Summary Judgment by Weather Underground, Incorporated. (Attachments: # 1 Index of Exhibits, # 2 Exhibit A, # 3 Exhibit B, # 4 Exhibit C, # 5 Exhibit D, # 6 Exhibit E, # 7 Exhibit F, # 8 Exhibit G, # 9 Exhibit H, # 10 Exhibit I, # 11 Exhibit N, # 12 Exhibit P, # 13 Exhibit Q, # 14 Exhibit R, # 15 Exhibit Y, # 16 Exhibit AA - Part 1, # 17 Exhibit AA - Part 2, # 18 Exhibit BB, # 19 Exhibit CC, # 20 Exhibit EE, # 21 Exhibit GG, # 22 Exhibit HH, # 23 [PLACED UNDER SEAL PURSUANT TO 192 ] Exhibit II, # 24 Exhibit JJ, # 25 Exhibit KK, # 26 Exhibit LL - Part 1, # 27 Exhibit LL - Part 2, # 28 Exhibit MM, # 29 Exhibit NN) (Schaefer, Enrico) Modified on 8/2/2011 (DWor).

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#1

08:24 AM

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Exclamation Verizon sues Navigation Catalyst Systems
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Verizon has sued Navigation Catalyst Systems:
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I've not downloaded the statement of claim yet, but if someone does, please post a link to it (no need for folks to
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#2

10:35 AM

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What are these companies:
Navigation Catalyst Systems, Inc. and Basic Fusion, Inc.
What kind of domains they own?

gamesway.com
titleforum.com
erbusiness.com
xxcnn.com
www.europavacations....
assassinator.info
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04-18-2008

#3

10:47 AM

http://www.navigationcatalyst.com/about/about.php
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They own a lot of typo domains, that were figured out by using the new.net plugin.

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04-18-2008

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#4

09:37 PM

subg

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They are in California.
I was told Basic fusion is a GoDaddy reseller account they own.
They are pretty much screwed. They own tons of hard core TM's. These days you can't do that in the US. Not good
press for avoiding the Snow bill.

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05-04-2008

#5

04:25 AM

I took a few minutes to download the docket in this case, and posted the relevant materials at:
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http://www.loffs.org/verizon-v-navcatsys-et-al/
Exhibit 7 is pretty amazing.

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05-04-2008

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#6

04:37 AM

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wow - and people wonder why the powers that be are gunning for domainers.

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05-04-2008

04:50 AM

#7

7/13/2011 9:14 AM

Verizon sues Navigation Catalyst Systems

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GeorgeK

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Does anyone know how many domains Navigation Catalyst Systems owns in total? I would think they are one of
the largest domain name registrants in the world.

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#8

04:57 AM

Originally posted by GeorgeK
I took a few minutes to download the docket in this case, and posted the relevant materials at:
http://www.loffs.org/verizon-v-navcatsys-et-al/

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Exhibit 7 is pretty amazing.
there is so much crap in there it's unbelievable. Notice no microsoft domains though

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05:07 AM

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Originally posted by subg
I was told Basic fusion is a GoDaddy reseller account they own.
Paragraph 8 of the complaint alleges that Basic Fusion is an ICANN-accredited registrar, and this appears to be
true given they appear at:
http://www.internic.net/registrars/registrar-813.html

Registrar Contact Information
Basic Fusion, Inc.
2101 Rosecrans Avenue Suite 2000 El Segundo, California 90245
United States
1-310-647-6000
[e-mail]
Although the WHOIS for basicfusion.com currently shows a NYC address:
http://whois.domaintools.com/basicfusion.com
and the IP address that the website is hosted on is 216.108.243.26, owned by Vendare Media Group, which
appears to have renamed itself to Connexus:
http://www.vendaregroup.com/
http://www.connexuscorp.com/
Some of Navigation Catalyst's generic domains can be seen at:
http://www.firstlook.com/domain-portfolio

Our large portfolio of highly targeted domains reaches over 60 million users each month, connecting them with
relevant information and providers. All of the traffic to our properties is organic; the vast majority coming from users
bypassing a search engine and typing the URL directly into the address bar.
With that much traffic, that's a lot of potential $$$$ that Verizon can go after if they are successful in their
lawsuit.
All the examples I checked used *.dnsnameserver.org nameservers, which according to www.dailychanges.com has
965,861 domains using those nameservers. It's unclear how many of those names are owned by Navigation
Catalyst Systems, though, since they apparently offer domain parking to others:
http://www.firstlook.com/domain-parking

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05-04-2008

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#10

05:12 AM

subg

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Thanks George.
Exhibit 7 is amazing.
Seems everyone else at their level has been cleaning up for the past year. What were they thinking.

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05:18 AM

#11

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Originally posted by Rob
there is so much crap in there it's unbelievable. Notice no microsoft domains though

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Scroll down to the letter "X", where XBOX typos are featured.
They're only giving one example per letter of the alphabet, as stated in paragraph 47 of the complaint (page 12):

Plaintiffs are informed and believe and on that basis allege that many of Defendants' Domain Names are confusingly
similar to famous or distinctive trademarks owned by others. ("Confusingly Similar Domain Names"). A list detailing
some of the Confusingly Similiar Domain Names is attached to this Complaint is attached to this Complaint as
Exhibit 5. Notwithstanding that Defendant has targeted nearly every single famous trademark in existence, for the
sake of brevity the list of Exhibit 7 details only one famous trademark for each letter of the alphabet.
(emphasis added) Note they mention Exhibit 5 by mistake, as they likely cut/pasted much of the text of this
complaint from other similar complaints, for example, paragraph 57 in the complaint of the recent Neiman Marcus
v. Ultra RPM case:
http://www.loffs.org/neimanmarcus-v-ultrarpm/
that got settled.

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#12

05:22 AM

Originally posted by GeorgeK
Exhibit 7 is pretty amazing.
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Your domains are never completely worthless. They can always be used as a bad example.

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05-04-2008

#13

05:28 AM

Thanks George - I should have read closer. It does look like curtains for this outfit.

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#14

05:54 AM

They should pray that they don't own any Vulcan Golf or Bo Jackson typos, given the aggressiveness in that case:
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http://www.domainstate.com/showthrea...threadid=78752

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#15

06:30 AM

With all those alleged Disney typos, one day Disney is going to wake up and go after a lot of people.
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What's funny is that with T.R.A.F.F.I.C. coming up in a few weeks:
http://www.targetedtraffic.com/orlando_show.html
Disney could personally serve some cybersquatters, if they attend the show, right in their hotel, which is owned by
Disney,
http://www.register123.com/event/pro...D=0x4852047160

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#16

08:53 AM

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Originally posted by GeorgeK
With all those alleged Disney typos, one day Disney is going to wake up and go after a lot of people.

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Monetary penalties are inadequate punishment for those intentionally sending traffic from Disney typos to adult
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09:11 AM

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Originally posted by InfoGuy
Monetary penalties are inadequate punishment for those intentionally sending traffic from Disney
typos to adult sites.
Agreed.
I expect some sort of special legislation to address this specific type of squatting in the next year.

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#18

10:50 AM

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Originally posted by GeorgeK
They own a lot of typo domains, that were figured out by using the new.net plugin.
What's the new.net plugin? Googling it, it looks like spyware?

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#19

11:24 AM

new.net was an attempt to add pseudo-TLDs at the top level, like .shop, .xxx, etc. without ICANN approval, see:
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http://new.net/
They partnered with some ISPs and also had a plug-in to enable domains like example.shop to work (they would
really be under example.shop.new.net for the rest of the internet not using the plug-in or using those ISPs).

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#20

12:01 PM

Thanks! But what does that have to do with figuring out typo domains?

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#21

12:46 PM

Originally posted by atlas
Thanks! But what does that have to do with figuring out typo domains?
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I think this is what he's refering to:
http://domainstate.com/showthread.ph...ation+Catalyst

Registry Wildcard Catalyst
Registry Wildcard Catalyst (RWC) provides fully customized, branded
solutions that enable top-level domain (TLD) zone administrators to assist,
and generate revenue from, Internet users who attempt to reach a nonexistent
domain name with their TLD zone. (The right-most label in a domain name, such
as .com or .net, is referred to as its TLD. Registry operators are
responsible for operating each TLD.)

7/13/2011 9:12 AM

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Instead of viewing "page not found" error messages, RWC delivers relevant,
content-rich, consistent search experiences to Internet users. TLD
administrators realize revenue through paid search results and other
revenue-generating opportunities that are displayed on navigation assistance
pages. Registry customers can also generate additional revenue from domain
name registrations initiated from these pages or any products or services a
registry may be interested in promoting. Like Domain Name Catalyst, NCS
offers its RWC solution, including development of fully customized pages, at
no upfront cost to registries.
ie typo interception via the New.Net plug in.

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#22

01:00 PM

Thanks! That makes it clear.

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#23

01:15 PM

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Originally posted by atlas
Thanks! But what does that have to do with figuring out typo domains?

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Back before domain tasting was rampant, it was hard to detect which domains would get traffic. new.net would be
able to see which domains were popular as their plug-in or the ISPs they worked with would see every attempt to
resolve a domain name. If a particular domain was profitable but unregistered, they'd be able to see this.

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01:53 PM

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Originally posted by GeorgeK
Back before domain tasting was rampant, it was hard to detect which domains would get traffic.
new.net would be able to see which domains were popular as their plug-in or the ISPs they worked
with would see every attempt to resolve a domain name. If a particular domain was profitable but
unregistered, they'd be able to see this.
Or put another way, domain tasting is the result of the individual, gains access to this data versus those who have
network infrastructure methods for monitoring such data.

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#25

11:46 PM

domain tasting is the result of the individual, gains access to this data versus those who have network infrastructure
methods for monitoring such data.
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...and then getting sued by a company which is in the business of monetizing error traffic at the ISP level.
These suits are simply jousting matches between two different gangs of pirates.

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#26

04:46 AM

Originally posted by jberryhill
...and then getting sued by a company which is in the business of monetizing error traffic at the ISP level.
ILikeInfo

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These suits are simply jousting matches between two different gangs of pirates.

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And then condemned by a third gang of pirates:
http://www.cadna.org/en/members.html

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10:47 PM

#27

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7/13/2011 9:12 AM

Verizon sues Navigation Catalyst Systems

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I just updated the page at:
http://www.loffs.org/verizon-v-navcatsys-et-al/
with the Answer and Counterclaim, filed on May 15th. Attorney Brett Lewis is representing Navigation Catalyst
Systems and Basic Fusion.

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05-26-2008

#28

11:01 PM

The counterclaim begins at the bottom of page 12, and involves Verizon's DNS wildcarding monetization, claiming
that they infringe upon the TMs that Navigation Catalyst Systems owns or licenses.

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#29

11:07 PM

Would be interesting to see this go to trial given the wildcrading claims against Verizon. I think New.net would be
pretty stuffed as far as Verizon's allegations go though. Only be the counterclaim that would be contentious in my
view.
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#30

11:16 PM

subg

Sep 2004
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There is a bull in the room and it seems NavCat is waving a red flag.
At best they have 100k x each Verizon name they need to settle. At worst Verizon could drop the case and refile
as a class action getting all the other victims on board. Thousands of names x 100k each. That wold probably put
NavCat under.
A quick search through google:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...talyst&spell=1
Shows they know better, so a judge would have no sympathy.

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#31

11:29 PM

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At best they have 100k x each Verizon name they need to settle. At worst Verizon could drop the case
and refile as a class action getting all the other victims on board. Thousands of names x 100k each.
That wold probably put NavCat under.

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Surely 100k per name is a worst case scenario for them rather than best case? I don't see why Verizon would
consider dropping a case only to refile it as something that is likely far more difficult to win, surely that would cost
Verizon a heap of money to do and embarass their lawyers? (in terms of wasting a whole lot of money on a
dropped case).

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#32

05:44 PM

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Originally posted by jberryhill
These suits are simply jousting matches between two different gangs of pirates.

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Or knights on horseback floating around in the ocean firing cannons at each other?

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#33

12:46 AM

Or knights on horseback floating around in the ocean firing cannons at each other?
Well, that metaphor mixing explains why I had to give up water polo after my horse drowned.

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At best they have 100k x each Verizon name they need to settle. At worst Verizon could drop the case
That's not an accurate worst/best situation here. Navigaton Catalyst has filed claims against Verizon for trafficking
in domain names that infringe NC's own marks.
Given that the Verizon wildcard system involves an exponentially larger number of domain typo's, the downside
for Verizon is a lot deeper than it is for NC.

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#34

10:21 AM

gwideas

Dec 2006
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are wildcard's equivalent to domains though?

Originally posted by jberryhill
Well, that metaphor mixing explains why I had to give up water polo after my horse drowned.

That's not an accurate worst/best situation here. Navigaton Catalyst has filed claims against Verizon
for trafficking in domain names that infringe NC's own marks.
Given that the Verizon wildcard system involves an exponentially larger number of domain typo's, the
downside for Verizon is a lot deeper than it is for NC.

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10:37 AM

#35

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7/13/2011 9:15 AM

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Originally posted by Chad
Dayum!
Ditto that. Exhibit 7 shows unbelievable stupidity.

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#36

10:56 AM

Originally posted by gwideas
are wildcard's equivalent to domains though?
ILikeInfo

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I think ISP Network Neutrality issues are making them the same.
ISP's are arguing it's "their private network" and so it's "their traffic" even though the traffic has been paid for on
both sides of their network.
In other words they have no responsiblity to be neutral, they admit to intentional interception and control of user
intent.
By zoning "privately" they are saying it's "their" traffic. By then monitizing a typo like a domain would I don't see
how they can possibly argue they are any different then a domain name.
It's very different that say Microsoft and their browser where Microsoft can claim it's a "feature" you accept by
using their software.
In the case of an ISP it's fundental manipulation of the technical standards by which networks are expected to
operate. In fact wildcard DNS is explicity forbidden in the specs. Yes I can see and ISP saying they do not have to
follow the standards, but then they admit to the intentional interception of the traffic for the purpose of
monitization - They can't have it both ways. You'd likely be able to take the stats of the exhibit 7 domains and
then scale then to the number of users Verizon has, and that would be low since there will be other typeins as
well.
I'd think the real key here is to force Verizon's monitizing logs, and relavent profits, to become public. Trademark
holders can then use those logs and profits numbers for any ISP by scalling for user count and know what
losses/damages to sue ISP's for.
Last edited by ILikeInfo; 05-29-2008 at 11:13 AM.

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#37

06:44 AM

are wildcard's equivalent to domains though?
Depends on what you mean by "equivalent".

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Bottom line:
I type in microosooft.com because I have a sticky "o" key. One of several things happens:
1. The domain name is registered by someone and I get a page of search links.
2. The domain name isn't registered by someone, I have a clean ISP, and a default MS explorer install, so I get a
page of search links.
3. Same as 2, but I have a default Mozilla install, so I get a page of search links.
4. Same as 2, but I have Yahoo toolbar, so I get a page of search links.
5. I have Verizon/Cox/AOL as an ISP, so I get a page of search links.
Now, if "I get a page of search links" is equivalent in your mind to "I get a page of search links", then these
Verizon lawsuits are just a load of crap.
No, it doesn't justify typosquatting, but I just don't get the freaking point.
I also don't get the freaking point of complaining about a tasted name that never got any traffic. If I take an old
t-shirt, write "Abercrombie" on it, put a price tag on it, and hang it in my basement for a week where nobody saw
it, then what have I done?

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05-30-2008
safesys

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#38

06:57 AM

Sep 2002
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If I take an old t-shirt, write "Abercrombie" on it, put a price tag on it, and hang it in my basement for a week where
nobody saw it, then what have I done?
Doesn't it come down to intent?
I'd think a better comparison would be if you put that shirt on a market stall with a price tag on it and it didn't sell
as the site is put up with the hope of making money from it.

7/13/2011 9:15 AM

Verizon sues Navigation Catalyst Systems

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When using google for counts - use double quotes for usage counts for multiword terms and set "match type" to
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05-30-2008

#39

07:27 AM

ILikeInfo

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Originally posted by jberryhill
I also don't get the freaking point of complaining about a tasted name that never got any traffic. If I
take an old t-shirt, write "Abercrombie" on it, put a price tag on it, and hang it in my basement for a
week where nobody saw it, then what have I done?

I'm Insane
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I'm looking forward to Verizon being forced to reveal it's "Basement monitization" logs.

Originally posted by safesys
Doesn't it come down to intent?
I'd think a better comparison would be if you put that shirt on a market stall with a price tag on it and
it didn't sell as the site is put up with the hope of making money from it.
Which is the same for wildcarding and monitization. However there is no "hope" involved, it's guarenteed profit.
Thus wildcarding ~= domain registration, but far better / guarenteed income if we're talking pure intent.

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06-04-2008

#40

10:47 PM

Doesn't it come down to intent?
Ideally, it should.

jberryhill

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So if someone is running a domain registration system that blindly takes in a feed of character strings from search
systems, ISP DNS logs, and other sources, and then proceeds to register domain names corresponding to character
strings, what is the intent?
And does that intent differ from wildcarding, which provides essentially the same result real time?
The intent in both cases is "monetize traffic". The practice, in both cases, ends up monetizing a lot of trademark
typo's, but that is not the specific intent.

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06-04-2008

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#41

10:56 PM

safesys

Sep 2002
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The intent in both cases is "monetize traffic". The practice, in both cases, ends up monetizing a lot of trademark
typo's, but that is not the specific intent.
I guess it's a bit like running a pawn shop and not bothering to check if goods that are brought in are stolen or not
- it can be solved (at least in large part) if there is a will to not profit from it.
As long as they can make at least a superficial defense argument - eg it'd be too complex to do anything that'd
tackle it all so they do nothing - then they get to make coin up to the point where they change policy to comply
with whatever ruling gets handed down or some other change in the marketplace.

And does that intent differ from wildcarding, which provides essentially the same result real time?
I'm certainly not arguing in support of wildcarding - to me that is even more all encompassing in terms of profiting
form trademarks and less upfront in terms of accountability.
It's even more mind-numbing when those engaged in it attack domainers as though they have the moral high
ground.

When using google for counts - use double quotes for usage counts for multiword terms and set "match type" to
"exact" for all search volume lookups. Click here for more info

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06-04-2008

#42

11:44 PM

It's even more mind-numbing when those engaged in it attack domainers as though they have the moral high
ground.
jberryhill

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That's the part that really slays me about the entire ball of issues.
Verizon has been a criminal operation for quite some time, and are still pulling hard for immunity from
prosecution.
And Dell....
http://www.cio.com/article/371313/Co...uilty_of_Fraud

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Dell was found guilty on Tuesday of fraud, false advertising, deceptive business practices and abusive debt collection
practices in a case brought by the New York attorney general.
When one criminal gang goes up against another, my interest in the outcome is not all that great.

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06-05-2008

#43

12:50 AM

I just checked PACER, and Verizon has filed their answer to the counterclaim:
GeorgeK

http://www.loffs.org/verizon-v-navcatsys-et-al/

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It's a typical "technical" answer, i.e. denying most things, etc. with nothing juicy per se, except maybe the 3rd
affirmative defense on page 10 (i.e. use of the Communication Decency Act), and maybe the 6th on the same page
(use of First Amendment).
They could have saved a few trees by not repeating the counterclaim point by point.
Now I suppose they'll start hammering out a private settlement, and leave us all in the dark.

George Kirikos - [phone]

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#44

11:02 AM

I just read:
http://domainstate.com/showthread.ph...threadid=90989
ILikeInfo

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And then this thread came to mind, and it hit me, there is actually presidence for what Verizon and ISPs are doing.
Cable companies regularly sell local advertisments that "overwrite" broadcast TV commercials. In effect I see a
dangerious similarity here .... Not to mention ISPs being able to provide local advertising placement with far
greater ganularity than ever before since they know EXACTLY where you live and they know *EXACLTY* how old
you are (account setup records, including SSN and having likely pulled a credit report) and when you are using the
service / are awake (better than Neilson ratings).
Last edited by ILikeInfo; 06-05-2008 at 11:12 AM.

She Who Measures

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06-05-2008

GeorgeK

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#45

04:33 PM

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Originally posted by ILikeInfo
Cable companies regularly sell local advertisments that "overwrite" broadcast TV commercials. In
effect I see a dangerious similarity here .... Not to mention ISPs being able to provide local advertising
placement with far greater ganularity than ever before since they know EXACTLY where you live and
they know *EXACLTY* how old you are (account setup records, including SSN and having likely pulled
a credit report) and when you are using the service / are awake (better than Neilson ratings).
Cable companies do that with the authorization of the channels they carry (i.e. they have specific agreements that
let them insert a certain number of minutes per hour). Most of the ads I've seen inserted by my cable company,
though, are for its own products/services.

George Kirikos - [phone]

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#46

10:07 PM

Diamond Sponsor

Latest decision on the dispute:
http://www.ilrweb.com/pfdocuments/il...navigation.pdf

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08-03-2008

Anyone reading Exhibit 7 (see first page of this thread) would not be surprised by this well-reasoned ruling. What's
surprising is that this has not been settled, and/or that more prospective plaintiffs haven't appeared.

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If this ever reaches a judges final decision, I look forward to seeing if there will be The Mother Of All Domain
Auctions to pay for the potential damages awarded to Verizon.

George Kirikos - [phone]

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transcash.com
sister.co
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rent-houses.net
jump-bikes.com

#48

01:25 AM

subg

Showcase Selection ?

#47

01:20 AM

I think they have blown their chance for a bargain.
__

Verizon says they don't want the names. So, I wonder how long after they are dropped someone from another
country will nab them.

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08-03-2008

#49

02:13 AM

GeorgeK

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Originally posted by subg
So, I wonder how long after they are dropped someone from another country will nab them.

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Or someone pretending to be from another country. I expect one day that the chickens will come home to roost for
people living in one country (e.g. the USA) but pretending via fake WHOIS to be from China or India or other hard
to reach jurisdictions. I think at some point the monetary incentives will exist for some plaintiff to take on the task
of going through registrar records (i.e. credit cards, login IP addresses and anything else they can subpoena) to go
after those who are really within their borders.

George Kirikos - [phone]

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