Schoolcraft v. The City Of New York et al

Filing 396

DECLARATION of NATHANIEL B. SMITH in Opposition re: 297 MOTION for Summary Judgment .. Document filed by Adrian Schoolcraft. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit POX 1, # 2 Exhibit POX 2, # 3 Exhibit POX 3, # 4 Exhibit POX 4, # 5 Exhibit POX 5, # 6 Exhibit POX 8, # 7 Exhibit POX 10)(Smith, Nathaniel)

Page 1
1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

2

---------------------------------------------X

3

ADRIAN SCHOOLCRAFT,
Plaintiff,

4

5

Case No:
-

6

against -

10

cv

06005

7

THE CITY OF NEW YORK, ET AL.,
8

Defendants.

9

10
11

---------------------------------------------X
111 Broadway
New York, New York

12
May 15, 2014
10:28 a.m.

13

14
15
16

DEPOSITION OF SALVATORE SANGENITI, pursuant to

17

Notice,

18

time, before DENISE ZIVKU,

19

within and for the State of New York.

taken at the above place,

date and

a Notary Public

20
21

22
23

24
25

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respond to your corner location.

3

Q.

What was your corner location?

4

A.

127th Street and 95th Avenue.

5

Q.

And you would just wait there

6

until you got a

call?

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

Do you recall getting the call

9

to respond to the Schoolcraft

10

A.

No,

11

Q.

-- residence?

12

A.

Sorry,

13

Q.

What do you recall about that

14

call or that

15

I

don't.

I

don't.

job or that assignment?
MR.

RADOMISLI:

16

have to narrow i t down.

17

Q.

You're going to

18
19
20
21

Do you recall going to

Schoolcraft's residence?

A.

I

remember going to

the

assignment.

Q.

When you went to the assignment,

22

what was your understanding about what the

23

assignment was about?

24
25

A.

Just that i t was an unknown

condition.
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S.

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SANGENITI

Did you ever have any

3

discussions with anybody at the scene about

4

Officer Schoolcraft carrying or not carrying

5

any weapons?

6

MS.

PUBLICKER METTBAM:

7

Objection.

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

Did you ever have any

10

discussions with anybody at the scene about

11

Officer Schoolcraft being an emotionally

12

disturbed person?

A.

14
15

I'm sorry,

Q.

13

Did you ever have any

can you

just rephrase

that?

16

discussions with anybody at the scene about

17

Officer Schoolcraft being an EDP or an

18

emotionally disturbed person?

19
20
21

A.

I

don't --

I

don't designate who

is an emotionally disturbed person.

Q.

I

understand that,

that question.

but I'm not

22

asking you

I'm asking you a

23

slightly different question which I

24

to restate i t

will try

just so i t ' s clear.

Did you have any conversations

25

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with anybody at any

time during this

3

or while you were at the

scene of

4

Schoolcraft's

either on

5

street or in his house,

6

you

7

emotionally disturbed person or an EDP?

residence,

scene

the

where somebody told

that Officer Schoolcraft was

an

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

Who

10

A.

Lieutenant Hanlon.

11

Q.

Lieutenant Hanlon told you that.

told you?

12

When did Lieutenant Hanlon tell you that

13

Officer Schoolcraft was

14

A.

15

she had with

16

Q.

17

with

after

the conversation

the officers.
After what conversation she had

the officers?

A.

18

I t was

an EDP?

At the

scene of the assignment

19

when an EMS officer is

20

go between for police department and the

21

fire

22
23

there,

they are

the

department.

Q.
tell you

My question is when did Hanlon
that Schoolcraft was an EDP?

24

A.

At the

25

Q.

When at the

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scene of the assignment.
time of

the

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scene of

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the assignment?

A.

I

would say maybe 21

-- 21

--

maybe 2 2 0 0 .
What were the circumstances or

Q.

6

what was

the situation at the time that

7

Lieutenant Hanlon told you that Officer

8

Schoolcraft was an EDP?
MR.

9

RADOMISLI:

Objection to

10

form.

You could answer.

11

A.

Just that he was acting

12

irrational and based on their evaluation,

13

that being Lieutenant Hanlon and the

14

officers on the scene of the assignment that

15

he is an emotionally disturbed person.

16

Q.

Did she make this

statement to

17

you that Officer Schoolcraft was an EDP to

18

you directly?

19

A.

She would have to.

20

Q.

No,

no.

I'm not asking you what

21

could have happened or should have happened

22

or what likely has happened.

23

you do you have a

24

telling you that Schoolcraft was

25

A.

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I

am asking

recollection of Hanlon
an EDP?

No.
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So when you told me a

3

while ago

4

Schoolcraft was an EDP,

you were testifying

5

about what you believe,

but you didn't have

6

any specific recollection of her telling you

7

that;

is

that she did tell you

little

that Officer

that correct?
MR.

8

RADOMISLI:

Objection to

form.

9

10

A.

Correct.

11

Q.

So I

will come back to

the

12

question that originally got us down

this

13

path.

14

either on the street or in the apartment or

15

in the bus or on the way

16

telling you

17

EDP or emotionally disturbed person?

Do you recall anyone at the scene,

to

the hospital,

that Officer Schoolcraft was an

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Who?

20

A.

Lieutenant Hanlon.

21

Q.

When did she tell you that?
MR.

22

23

answered.

RADOMISLI:

You can answer again.

24

THE WITNESS:

25

MR.

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Asked and_

RADOMISLI:

I'm sorry?
Asked and

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answered,

3

A.

22:00 hours approximately.

4

Q.

When she said that to you,

5

but you can answer again.

where

were you standing?

6

A.

In the apartment.

7

Q.

And where was she standing?

8

A.

In the apartment.

9

Q.

Were you in the same room?

10

A.

There is only one room there.

11

We were all

12

Q.

there.
So Hanlon told you while you and

13

she were standing in the room that Officer

14

Schoolcraft was EDP?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Is there something in the PCR,

17

which you were

18

relative to

19

about Hanlon telling you that Schoolcraft

20

was an EDP?

22

A.

24

As you know,

RADOMISLI:

Objection to

form.

23

which is

the inquiry I'm making to you

MR.

21

just looking at,

Just trying refresh my memory.
i t was quite a
MR.

25

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SMITH:

while ago.

For the record the

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witness was

3

SANGENITI

just perusing the PCR

report.

4

MR.

RADOMISLI:

5

MR.

SMITH:

Why?

Why should i t

6

reflect that,

7

can go beyond that,

8

choosing not to at this point.

9

Q.

10

A.

I

am not

Why do you believe that Hanlon

'Cause we were getting ready to

transport the patient.

13
14

but I

fact.

told you this at 2200?

11
12

because that's a

Q.

How many times were you in

Schoolcraft's apartment?

15

A.

Just once.

16

Q.

How many times was Hanlon in

17

Schoolcraft's apartment?

18

MS.

PUBLICKER METTHAM:

19

Objection.

20

A.

Once.

21

Q.

Other than Hanlon telling you

22

that Schoolcraft was

23

apartment,

24

thereafter tell you that Schoolcraft was an

25

EDP?

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an EDP in the

did anybody else at the scene or

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Just the officer told Lieutenant

3

Hanlon and Lieutenant Hanlon discussed i t

4

with me.

5

Q.

6

Hanlon?

7

A.

Blue shirt.

8

Q.

Are you telling me that an

9

What officer told Lieutenant

officer,

a

blue shirt in the apartment,

10

Han~on

11

told

told you he was an EDP?

Schoolcraft is an EDP and then Hanlon

12

MS.

13

Objection.

14

A.

I

PUBLICKER METTHAM:

don't know what conversation

15

they would have.

16

their conversation.

17

Q.

You

I

don't have privy to

just told me that an officer

18

told Hanlon that Schoolcraft was an EDP,

19

right?

20

Did you

A.

I

just tell me that?

told you the conversation the

21

officer had with Lieutenant Hanlon and then

22

i t was conveyed to me.

23

Q.

24

officer in a

25

Schoolcraft was an EDP,

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Did you

just tell me that an

blue shirt told Hanlon that
you

just told me

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that,

SANGENITI

right?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

And that's

5

A.

I t is.

6

Q.

Were you in the room when the

the truth,

right?

7

officer told Hanlon that Schoolcraft was an

8

EDP?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

What did this officer look like?

11

A.

I

12

Q.

I t was a

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Can you describe his ethnic

don't remember.
male?

15

background or his build or anything else

16

about him?

17

A.

No,

18

Q.

Can you describe the uniform

19

can't,

I'm sorry.

that the officer was wearing?

20
21

I

A.
uniform,

Police department issued
blue shirt.

Q.

Did the officer have any facial

24

A.

I

25

Q.

Did the officer say anything

22
23

hair?

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don't remember.

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else to Hanlon,

3

Schoolcraft was an EDP?

4

MS.

5

other than that Officer

Objection.
MR.

6
7

PUBLICKER METTHAM:

RADOMISLI:

That he was

able to hear?
MR.

8

SMITH:
I

Yes.

9

A.

No,

wasn't privy to that.

10

Q.

How much time elapsed between

11

the time that this blue shirt officer told

12

Hanlon that Officer Schoolcraft was an EDP

13

and Hanlon telling you that Officer

14

Schoolcraft was an EDP?

15

A.

I

16

Q.

But you were in the same room

really can't tell you.

17

when the officer had this conversation with

18

Hanlon?

19

A.

I

20

Q.

You heard the officer's words

21

was in the room,

spoken to Hanlon;

yes.

is that correct?

22

A.

No,

23

Q.

How do you know that the officer

24
25

I

didn't.

told Hanlon that Schoolcraft was an EDP?

A.

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'Cause she couldn't make that
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decision by herself.

Q.

All right.

Did you see an

4

officer speaking to Hanlon about

5

Schoolcraft?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

So when you told me that an

8

officer in a

9

Schoolcraft was an EDP,

blue shirt told Hanlon that

10

witness

11

A.

Correct.

12

Q.

You

you didn't actually

13
14
15
16

those statements?

just drew a

conclusion;

is

that correct?

A.

Based on Lieutenant Hanlon's

statement to myself,

Q.

yes.

What was Lieutenant Hanlon's

17

statement to you,

which led you

to

the

18

conclusion that i t was an officer wearing a

19

blue shirt who

20

an EDP?

21

A.

22

the officer.

23

Q.

told her that Schoolcraft was

Based on her conversation with

So Hanlon told you that

24

Schoolcraft is an EDP based on what the

25

police officer told her;

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is

that correct?

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MS.

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SANGENITI

PUBLICKER METTBAM:

Objection.
MR.

4

5

A.

Objection to

form.

6

RADOMISLI:

Based on Lieutenant Hanlon's

7

conversation with the officer,

8

Schoolcraft was

Officer

treated as such.

9

Q.

10

were to you?

11

A.

No,

12

Q.

Is i t fair

Can you tell me what her words

I

couldn't.
to say that the sum

13

and substance of what she told you was that

14

he is an EDP because the cop said so?

15

MS.

16

Objection.

17

A.

I

said.

19

to what was

conveyed to me.

21
22

Q.

I

can't speculate as

18

20

All

PUBLICKER METTBAM:

can tell you that what was

That's what I'm trying to get at

is what was conveyed to you?

A.

That he was an EDP,

23

wasn't treated like that.

24

but he

a medical patient.

25

Q.

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I

Be was

treated as

am respectfully very,
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very

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confused about what you're telling me.

3

Hanlon told you that Schoolcraft was an EDP,

4

right?

5

A.

Correct.

6

Q.

She told you that while you were

7

standing in Officer Schoolcraft's bedroom;

8

is

that correct?

9

A.

Correct.

10

Q.

And she told you that that

11

decision was based on her discussions with a

12

member of the police department;

13

correct?

is

that

14

A.

Correct.

15

Q.

And although you didn't hear the

16

conversation between Hanlon and the police

17

department,

18

with members of the police department;

19

that correct?

you saw her having conversations

20

A.

I

was in the same room,

21

Q.

is

yes.

And you saw Hanlon having

22

conversations with members of the police

23

department?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

And was based on the fact that

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she was having conversations with members of

3

the police department and that thereafter

4

she told you

5

drew the conclusion that i t was

6

who made the decision that he was an EDP;

7

that correct?

that he was an EDP

8

MR.

RADOMISLI:

9

MR.

SMITH:

that you
the officer
is

Read i t back.

You lawyer's asked

10

the court reporter to read back the

11

question

just so you have i t in mind.

(Record read.)

12
13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Other than Hanlon telling you

15

that Officer Schoolcraft was

an EDP,

16

anybody else in the world ever tell you at

17

any time that Officer Schoolcraft was an

18

EDP?
MR.

RADOMISLI:

21

MS.

PUBLICKER METTHAM:

22

Objection.

23

A.

24

Hanlon,

25

did

scene.

19
20

Objection to

form.

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My interactions with Lieutenant
she was

the only EMS officer on the

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MR.

2
3

Q.

SMITH:

I

will rephrase the

question.

4

SANGENITI

5

Other than Hanlon,

anybody else

tell you Schoolcraft was an EDP?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

Did you ever have any

8

discussions with anybody at the scene about

9

whether or not Schoolcraft was an EDP?

10

A.

No.
MR.

11

SMITH:

12

short break.

13

record.

All right,

I t ' s 11:39,

take a

going off the

Just five minutes;

okay.

14

(Whereupon,

a

15

MR.

Going back on the

16

record,

17

Q.

SMITH:

recess was

taken.)

i t ' s 11:51.
We were talking about the

18

conversation you had with Hanlon about

19

Schoolcraft being an EDP.

20

what the -- let me rephrase that.
When Hanlon told you that,

21
22

Can you tell me

was

Schoolcraft in the bedroom?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Was he sitting on the bed?

25

A.

Yes.

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officer tell you that you're suspended,

3

would that be the kind of thing that would

4

elevate somebody's blood pressure?

5

MR.

RADOMISLI:

6

MS.

PUBLICKER METTHAM:

7

Objection.

8

A.

9

I

Objection.

can't speculate on i t .

I'm

not that person.

10

Q.

11

that person,

12

of experience taking blood pressure

13

readings,

No,

I

understand that you're not

but you have an enormous •mount

don't you?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

As an EMT you have probably

16

taken tens

of thousands of blood pressure

17

readings over the past 25 years,

right?

18

A.

Correct.

19

Q.

Given that background,

can you

20

tell me whether or not a

21

by their superior officer that they're

22

suspended is

23

would lead to or could lead to an elevated

24

blood pres sure reading?

the kind of circumstance that

MS.

25

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person being told

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Objection.

3

MR.

SANGENITI

A.

4

RADOMISLI:

It could,

Objection.

but what happened is

5

that the officer told me that was his normal

6

blood pres sure.

7

Q.

I'm not trying argue with you.

8

A.

Nope,

9

Q.

I

10

not at all.

just want you to answer my

question.

11

A.

Okay.

12

Q.

All right.

I

will restate my

13

question

just so i t ' s clear.

I t ' s my

14

understanding that you

15

based on your experience,

16

told by his

17

being suspended that those are the kind of

18

facts

19

pressure;

just told me that
if somebody is

superior officer that they're

that could lead to an elevated blood
is

that correct?

20

MS.

21

Objection.

22

MR.

23

Substance.

24

Q.

Is

25

A.

Yes.

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PUBLICKER METTHAM:

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

that correct?

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Q.

Is

SANGENITI

that correct because a

3

person's emotional state is connected with

4

their blood pressure readings?

5

A.

I t ' s one of the factors,

6

Q.

What are the other factors?

7

A.

History,

8
9

10

individual is on,

Q.

Does

yes.

any medication that the

that's pretty much.
the respiration rate of 20

appear to be normal?

11

A.

12

number.

13

Q.

What about the pulse of 120,

14

first entry,

that appear to be normal?

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

How does

17

A.

Little high.

18

Q.

What's a

19

A.

80

20
21

Yes.

16 to 20 would be a

fair

the

that appear to you?

normal

range?

to probably --

80

to

90,

preferably below 80.

Q.

After taking the initial or

22

primary blood pressure reading from

23

Schoolcraft,

24

A.

25

what did you do?
Discussed with him that i t would

be in his best interest to go to

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the

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hospital.

3

go to

4

with a

5

jeopardizing his own health and i t would be

6

in his best interest and he agreed.

7
8
9

10
11
12
13

He was pretty adamant as

the hospital.

I

stated to him that

pressure that high,

Q.

to not

Did he have a

you know,

you're

right to refuse

medical attention?

A.
decisional

Q.

Sure.

As

long as he had

capacity.
And he did have decisional

capacity?

A.

Yes,

but you

try to discuss with

14

the individual that based on his medical

15

condition i t would be prudent to get i t seen

16

and take care of.

17

Q.

And your advice to him was

18

he have his medical

19

that

condition checked out,

right?

20

A.

Correct.

21

Q.

In what way did you believe that

22

he should be checked out medically?

23
24
25

MR.

A.

RADOMISLI:

Based on his blood pressure and

other conditions,

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Objection.

his underlying condition,

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i t would be prudent to go to the emergency

3

room.

Q.

4

5

emergency room to do?
MR.

6

A.

7

8

What would you expect the

I

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

can't -- they're going to

treat his blood pressure.

Q.

9

10

How are they going to treat it?
MR.

A.

11

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

They can give him Lasix,

12

are going to give him other drugs

13

they

assist in lowering his pressure.

14

Q.

Was

that can

Schoolcraft at risk of a

15

heart attack at this point?

16

MR.

19

Objection.

A.

Could he have a

Q.

17
18

RADOMISLI:

Anything's possible.

heart attack,

yes.
What I

20

want to know is given your experience,

21

Schoolcraft at risk of a

22

time you took this first blood pressure

23

reading?
MR.

24
25

A.

212-267-6868

was

heart attack at the

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

Sure.
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2

Q.

Why do you say that?

3

A.

A pulse rate of 120 he would go

4

into V-fib.

5

Q.

What is

6

A.

Where the heart actually pumps

7

so fast

8

irregularity and he could -- his heart could

9

stop.

10

that?

to where i t -- you have an

Q.

Is

there a

protocol

11

aware of that when you take a

12

reading and a

13

numbers

that you're

blood pressure

pulse reading that gives you

like these?
MR.

14

RADOMISLI:

Objection to

15

form.

I

16

A.

It there a

pulse?

17

Q.

Is

protocol,

18

there a

19

A.

No.

20

Q.

-- you normally follow in

21

don't understand the question.

there a

I

mean,

is

standard procedure that --

circumstances like this?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

Isn't i t advisable to tell

the

24

patient to s i t down or lie down and take the

25

blood pressure reading again?

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RADOMISLI:

Objection.

3

A.

Well,

he was sitting down.

4

Q.

You're not answering my

5

question.

6

ask a

7

reading that you consider to be elevated to

8

tell the person sit or lie down,

9

take the reading again in a

10

MR.

11

Isn't i t standard procedure to

patient who gives you a

RADOMISLI:

blood pressure

relax and

few minutes?
Objection.

Isn't that standard procedure?

Q.

MR.

12

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Why didn't you do that in this

15

case?

16

MS.

17

Objection.

18

A.

PUBLICKER METTBAM:

Probably because we were -- I
I

talked the individual to now go

19

wanted

20

to the hospital and I

21

from getting him to the hospital.

22

moved i t along.

didn't want to stray
So I

23

Q.

Why did you move i t along?

24

A.

I

25

wouldn't want the individual

to not get. care based on the situation.

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1

Q.

2

SANGENITI

Wasn't i t possible that your

3

blood pressure reading and your pulse

4

reading and your respiration readings were

5

incorrect?
MR.

6
7

A.

Anything's

possible.

8

RADOMISLI:

9

And not that -- he told me

i t ' s normal for him.

10

blood pressure.

11

I'm sorry,

Q.

12

I

that

That's his normal

'Cause when I

told him

didn't mean to interrupt you.
No,

that's okay.

He told you

13

that his blood pressure was normally that

14

high?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And did that suggest to you that

17

this was

not an emergency situation?

18

A.

19

that that's

20

doesn't not mean that other things are not

21

going on.

22

to evaluate and treat.

23

24
25

Q.

Just because an individual says
their normal blood pressure

I'm not a

doctor.

I'm just there

Did you offer him any

medication?

A.

212-267-6868

We don't carry any medication.
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After you took the blood

Q.

2

SANGENITI

3

pressure reading what happened next,

4

recollection?
A.

5

Had a

to your

conversation with him

6

discussing the importance of going to the

7

emergency room and after back and forth

8

conversations he had decided to go.

9

Q.

Then what happened?

10

A.

We exited the apartment.

11

walked down to

12

the back of the vehicle and when he found

13

out that he wasn't going to North Shore

14

Forest Hills,

15

went back into the apartment.

Q.

16

17

the vehicle.

We

He went into

he ran out of the vehicle and

How did he find out that he

wasn't going to North Shore Forest Hills?
I

A.

18

19

him.

20

closest 911

21

Q.

Which hospital was

22

A.

Jamaica Hospital.

23

Q.

How far was Forest Hills?

24

A.

I

25

I

probably discussed i t with

told him we needed to go to the
receiving hospital.
that?

don't really know exactly,

but

i t was further.

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3

Q.

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You have no idea how much

further?

A.

4

No.

Again,

we -- when we get an

5

assignment and hospital designation from

6

911,

7

tells you

8

speciality hospital,

9

that's designed and through the

10

Q.
hospital,
A.

13
14

mask.

That mask

the closest hospitals,

closest

the closest whatever
911

system.

It comes out through them.

11
12

i t comes up with a

When you mean the speciality
what do you mean?
Replant center,

burn center,

a

psychiatric hospital.

Q.

Forest Hills has a psychiatric

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

Jamaica does?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

So if the

15
16

unit?

to

911

the closest hospital

system says

send

21

us

22

psychiatric unit,

23

location would be the closest hospital;

24

that correct?
MR.

25

212-267-6868

that has a

Forest Hills at that

RADOMISLI:

is

Objection.

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2

A.

No,

3

Q.

I'm sorry,

i

Forest Hills doesn't.
I

misspoke.

I.
I
I

So if

4

the

911

system protocol says you're looking

5

for

a

6

closest hospital from the location that you

7

were at Schoolcraft's residence was

8

Hospital;

hospital

is

that has psych services,

Jamaica

that correct?
MR.

9

the

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

10

A.

Correct.

11

Q.

Putting aside the nature of the

12

services,

am I

13

Jamaica were

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Am I

16

roughly the

17

correct that Forest Hills and

911 receiving hospitals?

correct that they were

same distance from each other?
MR.

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

18

A.

Probably not.

19

Q.

Which one is closer?

20

A.

Jamaica.

21

Q.

By how much?

22

A.

Approximately two miles.

23

Q.

How did you measure

24

distance,

25

or how the crow flies

212-267-6868

is

that by GPS,

the

by driving mileage

or some other

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2

measurement?

3

A.

How i t ' s measured?

4

Q.

Yeah.

5

measured,

6
7

driving distance?

A.

I

would assume by blocks and

mileage.

Q.

8
9

Do you know how i t ' s

You're familiar with the

location where you were at,

right?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

You're familiar with where

12

Jamaica Hospital

is at,

right?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

You're familiar with where

15

Forest Hills

16

A.

I

17

Q.

Fair to

18

is

at?

am.
say you've been to both

locations many times?

19

A.

I

20

Q.

According to

21

at 82-60

88

22

Hospital was

23

this

would say,

yes.
the PCR,

Place and that drive
four miles.

you were
to Jamaica

Do you see

that on

PCR?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Are you

212-267-6868

telling me that the

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2

drive from 82-60 88th Place to Forest Hills

3

was six miles in your estimation?
MR.

4

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

5

A.

Four miles.

6

Q.

And how long was

7

the drive to

Forest Hills?
MR.

8

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

9

A.

Approximately seven miles.

10

Q.

You're sure about that?
MR.

11

A.

12
13

No,

I

am not.

Objection.
I t ' s all an

estimation.

14
15

RADOMISLI:

Q.

Did anybody else say anything to

Schoolcraft when he got into the ambulance?
A.

The first time or the second

18

Q.

The first time.

19

A.

No.

16
17

20
21

22
23

24
25

time?

At that time we were

just

sitting him on the stretcher and . . .

Q.

And you told him that he was

going to go to Jamaica,
A.

I

said we're going to take you

to the closest 911,

Q.

212-267-6868

right?

which is Jamaica.

And he said he wanted to go to
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3

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A.

SANGENITI

right?

Be goes

I'm not going,

4

of here and he got up,

5

I'm out

the apartment.

6

7
8
9

10

Q.

bolted and ran into

Did you say he bo,lted and ran

into the apartment?

A.

Be left.

Be left the vehicle

and proceeded to go back into the apartment.

Q.

There is big difference in my

11

mind between leaving the vehicle and

12

proceeding back to the apartment and bolting

13

and running back to

the apartment.

14

recognize

difference --

there's

a

Do you

15

A.

I

16

Q.

-- between those two things?

17

A.

Bad choice of words.

18

Q.

Sorry.

19

A.

Bad choice of words.

20

Q.

Well,

21

do.

which was

the bad choice

of words

22

A.

The bolted.

23

Q.

So he didn't bolt out of the

24

25

ambulance,

A.

212-267-6868

right?
No.

Be left -- he exited the

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3

SANGENITI

vehicle.

Q.

Be left the vehicle.

Did he run

4

to his apartment or did he walk to his

5

apartment?

6

A.

Be walked fast.

7

MR.

LEE:

8

MR.

SMITH:

9

Or something else?
I'm sorry,

what did

you say?
MR.

10

LEE:

I

said or something

11

else.

12

Q.

Be didn't fly,

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

Did he take a

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

Be used his feet,

17

A.

Yes.
MR.

18
19

did he?

motorcycle?

RADOMISLI:

right?

There's skipping

and hopping.
MR.

20

SMITH:

Fine.

Fair enough.

Be didn't skip or hop or gallop,

21

Q.

22

did he?

23

A.

No.

24

Q.

So he walked quickly,

25

what you said?

212-267-6868

Quick,

is

that

fast?

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2

A.

Brisk.

3

Q.

Thank you.

All right,

so he

4

briskly walked back to his apartment and you

5

saw him briskly walking back to his

6

apartment;

is

that right?

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

Did you see anybody briskly

9

walking behind him?

10

A.

The officers were following him.

11

Q.

Okay,

12

so you saw officers

following Schoolcraft into the apartment?

13

A.

Because at that point he was

14

officers were with us

15

vehicle.

16

Q.

Who was

17

A.

It was

in the back of the

in the vehicle with you?
Jessica Marquez,

you

18

know,

19

was waiting outside t i l l once we secured the

20

patient,

21

with us.

22

Officer Schoolcraft and an officer who

Q.

that's when the officer would come

Was i t normal procedure for an

23

officer to go to the hospital under these

24

circumstances?

25

A.

212-267-6868

They will when they're
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designated as

Q.

3

4

an EDP.

Well,

designated as

SANGENITI

had Schoolcraft been

an EDP at

that

5

A.

Sure.

6

Q.

By whom?

7

A.

The officers.

8

Q.

So a

time?

9

into

police officer was

the ambulance on

that f i r s t

10

a mb u 1 an c e ;

occasion

when Schoolcraft was getting into

11

i s

A.

12

the

that right?

Well,

the officer was

13
14

stretcher and you know,

outside

and we were waiting to put him in

Q.

15

getting

the

get him situated.

And i t was while you were

16

getting him situated that he got up and

17

left,

right?

18

A.

Correct.

19

Q.

How long was

20

ambulance

on

Schoolcraft in the

that first occasion?
Approximately

21

A.

Not long.

22

Q.

Five

23

A.

Five minutes,

24

Q.

What happened inside

25

ambulance,

212-267-6868

seconds,

ten
if

seconds?
that.

other than what you

the

told me,

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2

which is

that you told him you were going to

3

take him to the nearest 911

4

hospital

5

here.

Jamaica and he said I'm out of

What else happened?

A.

6

I'm not going to Jamaica.

7

going back in the house.

8

don't need your help and he

Q.

9

10

A.

I

just left.

Did he say I'm refusing medical

Be said he's refusing to go to

the hospital.

Q.

13
14

I'm going.

I'm

attention?

11
12

receiving

Did you do anything to

Schoolcraft while he was

in the ambulance?

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

Did Marquez do anything while he

17

18

19
20
21

was

in the ambulance?

A.

Just try to sit him on the

stretcher.

Q.

Did you try and force him onto

the stretcher?
MR.

22

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

23

A.

No.

24

Q.

Was he bound or handcuffed in

25

any way?

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2

A.

No.

3

Q.

Was he restrained in any way?

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

Was anybody holding his arm when

6

he was brought into the ambulance?

7

A.

Just the step up.

8

Q.

Just to help him to get up?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

Who did that?

11

A.

Myself.

12

Q.

Did anybody take his blood

13

pressure while he was in the ambulance?

14

A.

The first time or second time?

15

Q.

No,

no.

The first

time.

I'm

16

only talking about the first when he was

17

walking into the ambulance of his own free

18

will?

19

A.

No.

20

Q.

Did anybody do anything else to

21

assess him medically while he was in the

22

ambulance?
It was

too short of a

time.

23

A.

No.

24

Q.

So is there anything else that

25

happened in the ambulance on that first

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occasion?

3

A.

No.

4

Q.

Do you recall Lieutenant Hanlon

5

being at the scene at the time that

6

Schoolcraft went into the ambulance?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Do you recall her saying

9

10

11
12

13

anything?
A.

I'm sorry,

I

don't know exactly

what you're trying to --

Q.

I'm really just asking do you

recall her saying or doing anything?

14

MR.

15

ambulance?

16

MR.

RADOMISLI:

SMITH:

At the

Yeah.

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

After Schoolcraft left the

19
20
21

ambulance,
A.

did you see Hanlon do anything?
She said stay here and you know,

let PD handle i t .

22

Q.

Then what did she do?

23

A.

What did I

24

Q.

No,

25

A.

She stood there with me.

no.

do?

What did Hanlon do?
She

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wasn't go into the scene either.

3

Q.

Into what scene?

4

A.

Where they went back into the

5

apartment.

6

Q.

You stayed on the street,

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

And Marquez

9

street;

10

A.

Correct.

11

Q.

And Hanlon stayed on the street,

12

is

right?

stayed on the

that right?

right?

13

A.

Correct.

14

Q.

And a

15

whole bunch of the

officers went back into the apartment?

A.

16

They asked for

17

gave them the stair chair.

18

couldn't tell you.

19

five,

20

was in the chair,

21

you know,

22

the chair.

We

vehicle.

23

24
25

Timeframe I

It was approximately

ten minutes later Officer Schoolcraft

Q.

handcuffed and he was now,

getting ready to be put in my

And he was

then put in the

vehicle?

A.

212-267-6868

Yes.
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Q.

2
3

SANGENITI

And was he then handcuffed to

the stretcher?

4

A.

Be was.

5

Q.

Was his blood pressure taken

7

A.

Let's

8

Q.

We can read all

9

A.

Yeah,

10

Q.

6

then?
see -the documents

--

i t was.

t i l l we're blue in the face.

11

I

want to know whether or not you remember

12

his blood pressure being taken when he was

13

put in the ambulance on the second occasion?
MR.

14

RADOMISLI:

15

your question was.

16

what was done,

17

That wasn't what

The question was

records.

so he's

Fair enough.

18

MR.

SMITH:

19

MR.

RADOMISLI:

20

him what you recall
MR.

21

SMITH:

22

will ask him a

23

Q.

I

referring to the

If you're asking

-Yeah,

all right.

I

different question.

know what the document says

24

and so do you.

25

said before,

What I

want to know,

like I

is what do you remember about
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2

him having his blood pressure taken on that

3

second time he was in the ambulance,

4

time handcuffed to the gurney?
MR.

5
6

A.

Objection to

form.

7

RADOMISLI:

this

And again,

I

wouldn't be in the

8

rear of the vehicle.

9

shut the vehicle doors and take the person

10

11
12
13
14

15

16

At that point I

would

to the hospital.

Q.

So you didn't see him when he

was put in the vehicle,

A.

I

was there when we -- he was

put in the vehicle,

Q.

right?

sure.

You didn't see Marquez

blood pressure reading for a

take a

second time?

17

A.

Not for

18

Q.

Did you ever at any time see her

19

take a

the second time,

no.

second reading?

20

A.

No.

21

Q.

When you saw Schoolcraft coming

22

out of the apartment in the stair chair,

23

what was his demeanor?

24

A.

Agitated,

25

Q.

Anything else?

212-267-6868

yelling.

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i

2
3

4
5

6

!
I.

don't remove the handcuffs.

Q.

I

After he was cuffed to

stretcher or the gurney,

A.

I

the

what happened next?

We closed the door and proceeded

to go take him to

the hospital.

7

Q.

Who was

8

A.

I t would have to be --

9

speculate --

10

11
12

I

in the ambulance?

don't remember.

I

I

can't

know that

i t was an officer and Jessica Marquez.

Q.

So they were in the back of the

bus and you were driving;

is

that right?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Did you go with lights flashing

15

and sirens blaring?

16

A.

No.

17

Q.

Why not?

18

A.

New York State Department of

19

Health does

20

not let you.

21

Q.

not let you -- DMV actually does

I

thought you had a

potential

22

emergency situation.

23

me why you wouldn't be going back to

24

hospital under those circumstances?

25

A.

212-267-6868

So can you explain to
the

Based on his blood pressure and
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his

3

pressure,

4

SANGENITI

at that point.

5

statement that that was
he's

Q.

I

6

you were

7

somebody is

8

can't use

his

considered a

see.

So the

just referring to
considered a

normal blood

stable patient

regulations

that

state that if

stable patient you

lights and sirens?

9

A.

Correct.

10

Q.

So when Schoolcraft was put in

11

the ambulance he was considered a

12

patient?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

And he was

stable

15

considered a

stable

patient by you?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Was

there somebody who was

18

responsible for making the determination

19

whether or not the patient is

20

stable?

21

A.

22

authority on

23

Q.

And who was

24

A.

I t would be Lieutenant Hanlon.

25

She's a

212-267-6868

stable or not

I t would be the highest medical
the

scene.
that?

paramedic.
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Q.

2

Is

SANGENITI

there something on

3

that reflects

that he was

4

condition.at the

5

the PCR

ambulance?

6

MR.

7

he already

8

MR.

time he was put in

RADOMISLI:

Other

the

than what

testified to?
SMITH:

whatever else is

9

in stable

10

not sure that's

11

want to do

12

Q.

other than

in the PCR,

Is

clear.

but I

am

question.

13

Yeah,

that.

So maybe you

Let me rephrase

the

there anything in the PCR

14

that suggests

to you that Schoolcraft was

15

classified as

a

16

he was being taken
MR.

17
18

A.

to

the

time

Jamaica Hospital?

RADOMISLI:

Objection to

form.

19

stable patient at

Based on EMT Marquez'

20

on his

21

considered a

22

Q.

What is i t about her narrative

A.

Alert and oriented times

23
24
25

condition,

narrative

i t would warrant i t being

stable patient.

that

I'm sorry,

212-267-6868

not times

three.

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Alert and

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SANGENITI

2

oriented.

Be denied taking any medicines,

3

his vitals again,

4

any negative chest pain,

5

motor sensory.

6

stable patient.

were his normal,

he denied

he had good pulse,

That would be considered a

7

Q.

8

were normal?

9

A.

Vitals weren't normal.

10

Q.

Oh,

I

11

A.

No,

his vitals were normal for

12

him.

13

Where does i t say the vitals

thought you said

That was his statement.

Q.

Does i t make a

reference to his

14

statement that his vitals were normal for

15

him?

16

A.

No.

17

Q.

Other than the narrative,

Doesn't state i t in the PCR.
is

18

there some other indication or box or check

19

or a mark that suggests that Schoolcraft was

20

deemed to be in stable condition when he was

21

being taken to Jamaica?
MR.

22
23

A.

Objection to

form.

24

RADOMISLI:

25

Well,

patent airway,

breathing was normal,

212-267-6868

his

lung sounds were

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2

clear.

3

would be considered normal.

These vitals were posed to me they

So all of the indications on

Q.

4

5

page 1 of the PCR relating to airway,

6

breathing,

7

Glasgow.

8

he's

circulation,

pupils and the

Those are all indications

in stable condition,

9

A.
Q.

Is

right?

Yes.

10

that

there anything on the first

11

page that indicates that he is in anything

12

but a

stable condition?

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

What do the transportation

15

regulations

that you were referring to

16

earlier about when you're allowed and not

17

allowed to use the lights and sirens

18

return a

19

A.

patient to a
They

to

hospital?

New York State

20

actually New York City Fire Department has a

21

procedure out for patients that are in

22

stable condition as

23

sirens.

24

Q.

What is

25

A.

I t ' s the use of lights and

212-267-6868

to use of lights and

that regulation called?

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2

sirens in an emergency mode.

Q.

3

4

SANGENITI

And those regulations govern

your operation of the Jamaica bus?
MR.

5
6

A.

Objection to

form.

7

RADOMISLI:

8

know,

Of all ambulances within,

you

within New York City.

9

Q.

Including Jamaica ambulances?

10

A.

Everyone.

11

Q.

Are there other fire department

12

regulations

13

EMT conducts his or her duties as an EMT?

that govern the way a

MR.

14
15

A.

16

regulations

17

that needs

Q.

18

RADOMISLI:

Jamaica

Objection.

They have the rules and
that every voluntary hospital
to abide by.
And if I

want to get my hands on

19

those rules and regulations,

20

go?

21
22
23

A.

where would I

You would probably have to have

to go through the City Law Department.

Q.

Did you hear any of the

24

conversation,

25

ambulance between or among anybody in the

212-267-6868

if any,

that was had in the

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2
3

4

SANGENITI

ambulance during the ride to the hospital?

A.

No,

I

wouldn't be able to hear

anything.

5

Q.

You couldn't?

6

A.

Couldn't.

7

Q.

When you got to the destination,

There's a

partition.

8

did you hear any conversation that anybody

9

had pertaining to Schoolcraft?

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

So after you got to the

12
13

destination what did you do?

A.

Backed into the ER bay,

opened

14

the back and moved Officer Schoolcraft,

15

him over to the ER triage.

16

evaluated.

17

i t into the ambulance and prepared myself to

18

go home.

19

20

Q.

I

took

Bad him

took the stretcher back,

put

Was Schoolcraft in custody when

he was brought to the hospital?
MR.

21

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

22

A.

Be was.

23

Q.

And was he left in custody by

24

the police department when you left?
MR.

25

212-267-6868

RADOMISLI:

Objection.

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2

attention from the other room while you were

3

inside the bedroom?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Bad she been speaking with other

6

officers who were in that other room just

7

before she called out your name Sal,

8

MR.

KRETZ:

9

MR.

Sal?

Objection.

RADOMISLI objection.

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

What's your understanding of

12

why she was

13

that moment when you were taking or had just

14

taken his blood pressure?

trying to get your attention at

15

MR.

RADOMISLI:

16

MS.

PUBLICKER METTBAM:

17

Objection.

18

A.

I

20

Q.

Well,

you responded to that --

21

A.

Well,

I

Q.

I

19

22

don't know.

Objection.

I

wasn't privy to

that.

have because she was

my . . .

23

know.

What I

want to know is

24

I

want to understand what is i t that you

25

were conveying back to her when you said

212-267-6868

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2

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Not really.

3

on the tape that he had a

4

Whatever was

said

was wasn't feeling well.

Q.

5

6

headache and he

Did he tell you whether he had

taken any medication for his headaches?

7

A.

Just the Nyquil.

8

Q.

Did plaintiff ever tell you that

9

he had chest pains?

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

Did anyone from the NYPD ever

12

tell you that plaintiff complained of chest

13

pains?

14

A.

No.

15

Q.

Did plaintiff complain about any

16

sin us problems?

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

Did you believe plaintiff to be

19

a

danger to himself at any point?

20

A.

No.

21

Q.

Did you personally f i l l

22

paperwork as a

out any

result of this call?

23

A.

No.

24

Q.

Did you review any documents

25

prior to goinq to plaintiff's apartment on

212-267-6868

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