Windsor v. The United States Of America

Filing 57

FILING ERROR - ELECTRONIC FILING FOR NON-ECF DOCUMENT - DECLARATION of Dugan Exhibit C in Opposition re: 28 MOTION for Summary Judgment.. Document filed by Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group of the U.S. House of Representatives. (Kircher, Kerry) Modified on 8/2/2011 (db).

Exhibit C

Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.

July 8, 2011
Page 1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
-------------------------------------EDITH SCHLAIN WINDSOR, in her
capacity as Executor of the Estate
of CLARA SPYER,
Plaintiff,
-against-

10-CV-8435

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Defendant.
-------------------------------------(Caption continued on next page.)

DEPOSITION OF GARY MICHAEL SEGURA, Ph.D.

Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.

July 8, 2011
Page 2

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF CONNECTICUT
-------------------------------------JOANNE PEDERSEN & ANN MEITZEN,
GERALD V. PASSARO II,
LYNDA DEFORGE & RAQUEL ARDIN,
JANET GELLER & JOANNE MARQUIS,
SUZANNE & GERALDINE ARTIS,
BRADLEY KLEINERMAN & JAMES GEHRE, and
DAMON SAVOY & JOHN WEISS,
310 CV 1750
Plaintiffs,
(VLB)
v.
OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT,
TIMOTHY F. GEITHNER, in his official
capacity as the Secretary of the Treasury,
and HILDA L. SOLIS, in her official
capacity as the Secretary of Labor,
MICHAEL J. ASTRUE, in his official
capacity as the Commissioner of the
Social Security Administration,
UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE, JOHN
E. POTTER, in his official capacity as
The Postmaster General of the United
States of America,
DOUGLAS H. SHULMAN, in his official
capacity as the Commissioner of Internal
Revenue,
ERIC H. HOLDER, JR., in his official
capacity as United States Attorney General,
JOHN WALSH, in his official capacity as
Acting Comptroller of the Currency, and
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Defendants.
--------------------------------------

Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.

July 8, 2011
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DEPOSITION OF GARY MICHAEL SEGURA,

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Ph.D., an Expert Witness herein, taken by

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Defendant, pursuant to Agreement, at the

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offices of Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton &

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Garrison, LLP, 1285 Avenue of the Americas,

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New York, New York, on Friday, July 8, 2011,

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at 9:15 a.m., before Margaret Eustace, a

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Shorthand Reporter and notary public, within

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and for the State of New York.

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Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.

July 8, 2011
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G. Segura

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questions that attorneys might choose to ask

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me.

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with counsel.

And I had a preparation session yesterday

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MR. DUGAN:
answer?

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Can you read back that

(Record read.)
Q.

What was the question that was posed

to you for your affidavit?
A.

The question I was asked to address

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was the relative powerfulness or powerlessness

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of gays and lesbians in the political system.

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Q.

I want to ask about some of the

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terminology you use in your affidavit,

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throughout your affidavit you use the term gay

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men or gays.

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How do you define gay?
A.

I would define gay as an individual

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who has primarily the same sex sexual

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attraction and has adopted a public persona

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consistent with that sexual attraction.

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would distinguish it from homosexual or

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homosexual acts, which I think is a more

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complex undertaking.

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Q.

And I

What -- how do you define homosexual?

Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.

July 8, 2011
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G. Segura
A.

So there is a broad class of

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individuals who have same sex sexual

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attraction.

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sexual attraction alongside opposite sex

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sexual attraction and they are generally

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referred to as bisexual.

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Some individuals have same sex

But people who have primarily same
sex sexual attraction fall into a number of

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categories.

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attraction and never act on it for whatever

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reason, social convention, religious

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upbringing, et cetera.

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terms of orientation, homosexual, but they are

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not engaging in homosexual acts and I would

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not classify them as gay.

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Some have same sex sexual

They would be, in

The second category is the more

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technical one.

These are individuals who do

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act on their same sex sexual attraction, but,

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again, for whatever reason, choose not to

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socially identify as a person of that sort or

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that type.

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for example, when looking at STD transmission

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or HIV transmission, never refers to gay or

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homosexual.

The Centers for Disease Control,

They refer to men having sex with

Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.

July 8, 2011
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G. Segura

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men because that is the clinical activity that

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they are interested in, whether or not those

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individuals choose to identify publicly as a

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gay person or to identify themselves in that

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community.

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For gay and lesbian, I am talking

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about individuals who not only have same sex

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sexual attraction and act on it but choose to

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identify it as part of their life structure.

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Q.

I think you hinted at it there, but

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when you use the term lesbian, how do you

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define it?

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A.

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A woman with primarily same sex

sexual attraction.
Q.

Do you know what percentage of the

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American population is gay, lesbian or

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bisexual?

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MS. KAPLAN:
A.

Objection to form.

I do not know.
So the most recent report I have seen

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puts the number between 3 and a half and 4

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percent for gay men and lesbians.

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research I have read to prior to the most

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recent report suggests that the rate is uneven

The

Gary M. Segura, Ph. D.

July 8, 2011
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G. Segura

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for men and women, that it might be more

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common among men than women.

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And for bisexuals, I am less

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informed.

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bisexuals.

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Q.

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I don't know the percentage of

Have you written any articles on the

question of gay and lesbian political power?
A.

I have written articles on gay and

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lesbian issues, and in least in one instance

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it was specifically on electoral opportunities

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for gays and lesbians, so I guess that would

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yes, but not around and abstract notion of

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political power as that being the entire

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purpose of the study.

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Q.

Have you taught classes on gay and

lesbian political power?
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Yes.

So in the 1990s I taught a

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class called either Politics and Homosexuality

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or Gay and Lesbian Politics, the name was

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different at different institutions.

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And in that course, we considered in

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depth whether or not gays and lesbians possess

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sufficient political power to protect their

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basic interests, so this was a very live topic