I/P Engine, Inc. v. AOL, Inc. et al
Filing
766
NOTICE by AOL Inc., Gannett Company, Inc., Google Inc., IAC Search & Media, Inc., Target Corporation of Filing of Defendants Proffer Of Evidence Related To Laches (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit B, # 3 Exhibit C)(Noona, Stephen)
EXHIBIT
B
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 1
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2
EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
3
NORFOLK DIVISION
4
-------------------------x
I/P ENGINE, INC.,
5
Plaintiff,
6
v.
Civil Action No. 2:11-cv-512
7
GOOGLE INC., et al.,
8
Defendants.
9
-------------------------x
10
11
CONFIDENTIAL PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
12
13
Videotaped Deposition of DONALD M. KOSAK
14
Washington, D.C.
15
Thursday, May 31, 2012
16
9:04 a.m.
17
18
19
20
21
22
Reported by:
Amy E. Sikora, RPR, CRR, CSR-NY, CLR
23
24
25
Job No. CS397174
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 2
1
2
Deposition of DONALD M. KOSAK
held at the offices of:
3
Dickstein Shapiro LLP
4
1825 Eye Street, N.W.
5
Washington, D.C.
20006
6
7
Pursuant to notice, before Amy E. Sikora,
8
Registered Professional Reporter, Certified
9
Realtime Reporter, Certified Shorthand
10
Reporter (NY), Certified LiveNote Reporter, and
11
Notary Public for the District of Columbia.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 3
1
2
A P P E A R A N C E S
ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
3
DAWN RUDENKO ALBERT, ESQUIRE
4
Dickstein Shapiro LLP
5
1633 Broadway
6
New York, New York
7
212-277-6715
8
albertd@dicksteinshapiro.com
9
10019-6708
-and-
10
CHARLES J. MONTERIO, JR., ESQUIRE
11
1825 Eye Street, N.W.
12
Washington, D.C.
13
202-420-5167
14
monterioc@dicksteinshapiro.com
20006-5403
15
ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANTS GOOGLE, INC., IAC
16
SEARCH & MEDIA, INC., TARGET CORP., AND GANNETT
17
CO., INC.:
18
DAVID BILSKER, ESQUIRE
19
50 California Street
20
San Francisco, California
21
415-875-6432-5700
22
davidbilsker@quinnemanuel.com
94111
23
24
25
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 4
1
A P P E A R A N C E S
2
(Continued)
3
ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT AOL, INC.:
4
CORTNEY S. ALEXANDER, ESQUIRE
5
Finnegan Henderson Farabow Garrett & Dunner
6
LLP
7
3500 SunTrust Plaza
8
303 Peachtree Street, NE
9
Atlanta, Georgia
30308-3263
10
404-653-6400
11
cortney.alexander@finnegan.com
12
13
14
ALSO PRESENT:
15
David L. Cohen, Esquire (p.m.)
16
Innovate/Protect
17
Kim Johnson, Videographer
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 16
1
Q.
Sure.
2
A.
Google AdSense is what I had heard
3
about.
4
product names that are both advertising, I got
5
them confused.
6
7
The -- the two terms are -- you know, the
Q.
I'm sorry.
All right.
Well, with respect to
Google AdSense, you knew about it by 2005?
8
A.
Right.
9
Q.
And that was because you used it at
10
Lycos?
11
A.
Right, right.
12
Q.
Did you have an understanding of how
13
14
Google AdSense worked?
A.
I don't know how it worked internally.
15
We knew enough to put the required tags on the
16
page to call those ads, but what happens after
17
that, I don't know.
18
19
Q.
selected?
20
21
MS. ALBERT:
Q.
22
23
Did you have any idea how ads were
In Google AdSense?
MR. BILSKER:
Q.
Objection, vague.
Let me withdraw that.
Did you have any idea how ads were
24
selected in Google AdSense in the 2005 time
25
frame?
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 17
1
A.
No.
2
Q.
Did you do anything to try to
3
determine how ads were selected in the 2005 time
4
frame in Google AdSense?
5
A.
No.
6
Q.
Is there a reason that you didn't do
7
anything to try to identify how they were
8
selected?
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
What was that reason?
11
A.
There was no business reason for me to
12
spend time on analy -- analyzing something that
13
was, you know, wasn't a revenue stream for us.
14
Why -- why would I analyze it?
15
16
17
Q.
At that time in 2005, who owned the
two patents that are part of this case?
A.
In 2005, I'm not sure the ownership.
18
I -- I believe it was probably Dom Communications
19
Corporation.
20
Q.
Not Lycos?
21
A.
Well, Lycos was owned by Dom
22
Communication Corporation at the time.
Hence, my
23
uncertainty about the ownership, whether they
24
were owned by a subdivision or the parent company
25
or -- I don't know exactly who had the ownership
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 20
1
Q.
Yes.
2
A.
No, I -- I don't recall.
3
Q.
Were you doing anything to determine,
4
in 2005, whether anyone might be using the
5
patents that are part of this case?
6
7
8
9
A.
I don't think that I did anything in
2005.
Q.
When was the first time that you did
anything to make a determination as to whether
10
somebody was using the inventions that are
11
described in the patents in this case?
12
MS. ALBERT:
Objection.
13
A.
Could you repeat the question, please?
14
Q.
Sure.
15
A.
I'm sorry.
16
Q.
When was the first time that you did
17
anything to make a determination that someone was
18
using the inventions that are described in the
19
patents in this case?
20
21
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Objection.
I -- I did nothing to -- to do this.
22
As -- as a technologist, as an engineer, that
23
would be something that the legal department
24
would handle, not -- not myself.
25
action to determine infringement or -- or, you
So I took no
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 21
1
2
know, at any point as a technologist for Lycos.
Q.
So you never remember seeing any
3
system where you said, hey, they're using
4
collaborative filtering and content-based
5
filtering and that's what our patents claim; you
6
never remember any situation like that?
7
A.
Where I would take some initiative --
8
I'm clarifying the question.
9
some initiative to say, hey, these guys are
10
infringing?
11
Where I would take
that at Lycos.
12
13
Q.
I -- I don't believe that I ever did
Were you involved in any way in a case
between Lycos and Choice Stream or Netflix?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
And what was your involvement in that
16
case?
17
A.
18
Stream.
19
Netflix, so I'm clarifying my answer there.
20
21
I'm not familiar with the Choice
Q.
I don't recall that.
But I remember
What was your involvement in that
case?
22
A.
I was approached by our general
23
counsel and asked to collect documents pertaining
24
to the inventions that were mentioned in that
25
case.
I don't recall which inventions they were.
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 66
1
2
A.
Yeah.
I -- I don't know what we're --
you know, what I would think in 1998.
3
Q.
What would you think today?
4
A.
Well, today it's pretty obvious that
5
those systems, you know, work in a lot of
6
different contexts.
7
Q.
But is it a fair statement that a
8
system for scanning a network and a system for
9
searching a network, in your mind in '98, would
10
be different things?
11
12
MS. ALBERT:
Objection.
Vague.
Compound.
13
A.
I'm not sure in my mind in 1998 what I
14
would be thinking because that was a long time
15
ago.
16
So I -- I can't -- I don't know about that.
Q.
Well, how about in relation to your
17
inventions that are part of this case.
18
When they
mention scanning a network --
19
A.
Uh-huh.
20
Q.
-- what is it that you've got in mind
21
there?
22
MS. ALBERT:
23
24
25
A.
Objection.
Could you rephrase the question or --
or -Q.
Sure.
When your patents discuss
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 73
1
system.
2
wrote was called The Librarian.
3
Q.
The first major commercial one that I
All right.
Well, let's talk about a
4
search system that combined content-based- and
5
collaborative filtering.
6
MS. ALBERT:
7
A.
8
Q.
Objection.
constructed?
9
What was the first one?
10
The first one that I personally
All right.
What was the first one in
general?
11
MS. ALBERT:
Objection.
12
A.
I don't know.
13
Q.
What was the first one that you
14
participated in constructing?
15
16
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Objection.
What was the first one?
17
help me to understand the question?
18
Could you
mean by "one" in that?
19
Q.
What did you
What was the name of the first search
20
system you participated in creating that combined
21
content-based- and collaborative filtering?
22
MS. ALBERT:
23
A.
24
please?
25
Q.
Objection.
Could you repeat that question,
What was the name?
What was the first search system -Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 75
1
combined collaborative filtering and
2
content-based filtering.
3
A.
Could you repeat the question?
4
Q.
When was the first time that you had a
5
search system that combined content-based
6
filtering and collaborative filtering?
7
MS. ALBERT:
Objection.
8
A.
I don't recall.
9
Q.
What was name of the first system that
10
you had, working system that you had, that
11
combined content-based- and collaborative
12
filtering?
13
MS. ALBERT:
Objection.
14
A.
I don't recall.
15
Q.
What are the possibilities?
16
17
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Objection.
The possible names?
Well, there are a
18
lot of, you know, different project names, and
19
sometimes research projects had names or -- or,
20
you know, code names or like Greek letters or
21
project numbers.
22
different possibilities.
23
projects.
24
Q.
25
So, I mean, there's a lot of
I ran a lot of research
Are there any that -- that you recall?
MS. ALBERT:
Objection.
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 82
1
universities at the time hosting products like
2
Lycos, in '94 and '95, I believe was
3
Lycos.cmu.edu.
4
period of time between research and commercial
5
web properties.
6
Q.
So there's a fuzzy line in that
How did you become aware of other
7
collaborative filtering engines on the web such
8
as Firefly and GroupLens?
9
A.
Sometimes I would meet people doing
10
those research projects because I frequently
11
spoke at universities or -- or, you know, gave
12
lectures.
13
they would tell me about projects.
14
might find them in a research paper or on a
15
website.
16
17
18
Q.
So I would shake hands with people and
Other times I
So did you meet the guys from Firefly,
guys and girls?
A.
While I was doing this, I didn't.
But
19
I did have the opportunity to meet Dr. Patti Maes
20
some years after Lycos had acquired WiseWire.
21
Q.
So you say here, "one of the first
22
collaborative filtering engines on the web."
23
What made you different from -- different, if at
24
all, from the other collaborative filtering
25
engines that were on the web?
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 83
1
A.
I believe that we were the first that
2
combined content and collaborative filtering in
3
the mechanisms that we -- that we used.
4
Q.
So how come you didn't actually say
5
that?
6
collaborative filtering engine?
7
Why didn't you say first content and
A.
Well, if you notice the pattern that I
8
in my profile, my most recent entries tend to be
9
larger.
And as I go back, I used less and less
10
leans to describe it.
11
line to describe everything that I did over the
12
two years at WiseWire.
13
particular words, I don't know.
14
that space at the time, I guess.
15
Q.
So I only used a single
So why I chose the
Whatever fit in
Just seems a little curious to me that
16
you have, for example, the '799 patent up on a
17
plaque that you say is content based and
18
collaborative filtering, that you wouldn't have
19
described it as content-based- and collaborative
20
filtering.
21
why you didn't?
22
23
24
25
Can you think of any other reasons
MS. ALBERT:
Objection, asked and
answered.
A.
I -- I don't know why I chose
particular words when I typed that.
I probably
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 84
1
typed that years ago.
2
3
Q.
All right.
You started in November of
1995 at WiseWire; is that right?
4
A.
Correct.
5
Q.
Was it called WiseWire at the time?
6
A.
It was called Empirical Media at the
7
8
9
10
11
November 15th.
time.
Q.
And how is it that you came to be
involved with Empirical Media in November of
1995?
A.
Well, I had wrapped up a project for
12
the United States Senate, and that project
13
involved very early use of one of the very first
14
web browsers in late '94.
15
early technology possibly represented a huge
16
shift in the way that we used computers.
17
wanted very much to shift from doing these large
18
systems that I was working on to building systems
19
on the Internet.
20
And I felt that this
And I
So in 1994 I started poking around
21
people that I knew that were doing things on the
22
Internet, and I -- I'm not sure exactly who I
23
talked to at Carnegie Mellon, but somebody
24
eventually pointed me towards either Michael
25
Maulden or Ken Lang.
Dr. Maulden was a professor
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 88
1
that.
2
by "relation"?
3
4
Could you be more clear on what you mean
Q.
patent, what does "collaborative filtering" mean?
5
6
Well, in the context of the '799
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Objection.
I can talk to you about our invention,
7
but, you know, I haven't looked at the contents
8
of this patent in, you know, quite sometime.
9
Q.
All right.
Let's -- let's first take
10
a look at column 3, and then we'll talk about
11
your invention.
12
A.
Okay.
13
Q.
So take a look at column 3.
14
A.
I'm there.
15
Q.
At around line 3 or so.
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
"A rating server predicts a score, or
18
rating, based on the heuristic that people who
19
agreed in the past will probably agree again."
20
Do you see that?
21
A.
Mmm.
22
Q.
Was that a decent summary, a fair
23
summary of collaborative filtering?
24
25
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Yeah.
Objection.
I don't know if that -- that's
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 138
1
2
3
Q.
But there was a version two to
U-Media?
A.
Well, there was a version two to this
4
content and collaborative filtering system that
5
we were rolling out.
6
started out as U-Media and then the name changed
7
to WiseWire.
8
company to WiseWire, we also changed the name of
9
the product that we were building to WiseWire.
10
It -- version two may have
When we changed the name of our
We had several permutations of that.
11
Q.
Was U-Media a website that Empirical
12
Media hosted?
13
A.
I don't recall if it was a website or
14
if it was the name of the product on the
15
empiricalmedia.com website.
16
17
Q.
What about wisewire.com, that was a
website that you hosted; right?
18
A.
It was a website that the company
19
hosted, yes.
20
Q.
And that was or was not one of the
21
major iterations of the product?
22
MS. ALBERT:
23
A.
Yeah.
Objection.
I -- I don't know if -- if that
24
was -- like I said, there was a branding change
25
that happened then, but I don't remember if we
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 139
1
made a substantive change to the feature set of
2
the software at that point.
3
Q.
What was the -- what substantive
4
change to the features of the software occurred
5
as a result of going from the first iteration to
6
the second iteration?
7
A.
8
Well -MS. ALBERT:
9
A.
Objection.
Yeah, I mentioned that I don't
10
remember exactly which features fell within which
11
major release.
12
to do with kind of the architecture of the
13
platform and -- as did the functionality or user
14
experience.
15
Q.
These major numbers had as much
Do you know what the difference
16
between the second release and the third release
17
was?
18
19
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Objection.
There were a lot of -- in any major
20
revision -- typically, the way software works is,
21
you have a major revision followed by a number of
22
minor revisions.
23
filled with bugs, as to be expected of any
24
software.
25
fixes some of the bugs and you may add a few
So you get version 1.0 is
Then version 1.1 comes out and that
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 159
1
projects and talk with him.
2
I didn't see all the details, I just saw the
3
summaries of the -- of the projects.
4
Q.
So often I didn't --
Who was the manager of the research
5
project that was directed towards search
6
combining collaborative- and content-based
7
filtering?
8
9
MS. ALBERT:
A.
10
11
12
13
14
17
18
Sorry.
That particular project was something
that Ken and I worked on exclusively.
Q.
And did you document the research,
that research project, in a Word document?
15
16
That particular project -THE WITNESS:
A.
Objection.
MS. ALBERT:
Q.
Excuse me.
Objection.
In a word processing
document?
A.
I recall that we had at least one
19
spreadsheet, several documents.
20
the whiteboard as well for this -- for this
21
project.
22
Q.
We did a lot on
But any -- any documents that still
23
exist that evidence any of this work that you --
24
that you say you did on search combining content
25
and collaborative filtering?
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 160
1
MS. ALBERT:
2
A.
3
exists.
4
the materials that are available.
5
Yeah.
Objection.
I don't know if anything still
I haven't methodically gone through all
Q.
Well, was it part of the document
6
universe that you collected back in, I think you
7
said 2007, for the Netflix litigation?
8
A.
Yeah.
I collected a lot of documents
9
from research servers, from backups of machines.
10
I mean, I was pretty diligent in collecting what
11
materials Lycos had.
12
manager also help me pull tapes and stuff from --
13
from our backup systems to try to get as many
14
documents from that time period as possible.
15
I also took snapshots of the source code.
16
nonpublic facing source code was in that source
17
code repository, and there were directories in
18
that repository for the different research
19
projects.
20
I had the operations
And
Even
So is it possible that there are
21
things in that collection?
I think it's very
22
possible that there are things in that
23
collection.
24
I didn't -- I didn't go through as I was picking
25
the documents and review individual documents.
Do I know of particular documents?
I
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 164
1
think that I said that probably the earliest it
2
could have been would have been then that -- that
3
we first had an idea of -- of bringing some of
4
these components.
5
There were a lot of different ways to
6
integrate those components.
7
system.
8
idea.
9
later that resulted in these or in these patents
10
11
12
13
It was a complicated
So I don't know when we hit upon the
It could have been, you know, considerably
that we had looked at earlier.
Q.
Did you keep any notebooks of your
work?
A.
I used to have some notebooks at one
14
point, notebooks that had primarily
15
WiseWire/Lycos things, yeah.
16
had anything particularly from the WiseWire time
17
period.
18
at -- at Lycos at that time.
I left all of my notebooks that I had
19
MR. BILSKER:
20
little while.
21
break now.
22
23
I don't know if I
We've been going for a
We may as well take our lunch
That's fine.
MS. ALBERT:
I'm fine with that.
It's like one o'clock.
Oh, it is?
Time flies.
45 minutes?
24
MR. BILSKER:
Yeah.
25
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
This the end of
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 214
1
A.
In -- in general or --
2
Q.
Yeah.
3
A.
At my time at Lycos.
4
very broad.
5
what, 14 years?
And you're asking me if I ever
6
did something.
I don't know if I can answer that
7
in any other way than -- than, I don't know.
The question's
I mean, it covers the scope of,
8
Q.
All right.
So let's cabinet it in
9
time, then.
10
A.
Okay.
11
Q.
Prior to December 1998, did you ever
12
adapt any techniques from information filtering
13
to search systems that you were creating?
14
15
A.
We certainly used various techniques
in some of those research projects that we built.
16
Q.
And what techniques were those?
17
A.
Various ways of parsing documents.
18
Various ways of stemming -- stemming is a
19
technical term.
20
Just an entire litany of -- of techniques.
21
22
23
24
25
Q.
Different linguistic analysis.
Any techniques related to
collaborative filtering?
A.
Certainly some of the techniques had
something to do with collaborative filtering.
Q.
Do you remember which of the
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 215
1
techniques had to do with collaborative filtering
2
that you used in search --
3
A.
I don't know.
4
Q.
-- or adapted from the early
5
information filtering techniques?
6
MS. ALBERT:
7
A.
Objection.
It's difficult for me to answer
8
because we had a lot of different research
9
projects, and many of them were on around ways of
10
improving the search experience.
11
you know, 1998 that we're talking about.
12
recall exactly which experiments had which pieces
13
in it.
14
And this was,
I don't
You know, these are not things that I
15
spent hours every day on the experiments.
16
were things that I parceled off to people to run
17
tests and get results back to me.
18
possibly a few hours of experience on some of
19
them and, you know, maybe a day of experience on
20
another.
21
indelibly etched in my memory.
22
Q.
They
So I've got
They're not things that are going to be
See, now I'm confused because earlier
23
today you said that you and Mr. Lang were the
24
only ones that were working on the search part of
25
the project?
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 254
1
Q.
So the first time a user made a demand
2
search and there wasn't a wire for it, the
3
collaborative part of the algorithm did not kick
4
in?
5
6
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Objection.
Well, there -- there were instances
7
that we could use the information that we might
8
have on one of the results that came up to make a
9
determination as to whether, you know, the
10
ranking of that result should be moved up or
11
down.
12
Q.
So tell me how that worked.
13
A.
In our prototype system, when -- when
14
you had multiple queries coming through, the
15
queries didn't necessarily have to generate the
16
exact same result set.
17
document that's in common between those result
18
sets.
19
semi-related query (indicating) clicked on that
20
document, might make that document rise up
21
numerically its score higher.
22
behavior might influence other queries.
23
But there might be a
The fact that somebody at this
Q.
So that pattern of
How did you know that a query was
24
semi-related as opposed to -- if it wasn't
25
identical, how did you know that it was
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 255
1
semi-related?
2
A.
Well, in my example I'm talking about
3
a case where the same result or the same document
4
was shown in both queries.
5
conclusion that there was a relationship between
6
the queries because they returned an instance of
7
the same document.
8
a very finite example here.
9
Q.
So I'm drawing the
And I'm kind of talking about
And then when you used -- when you
10
used that information where somebody had clicked
11
on the same document that showed up in the two
12
queries, what happened next?
13
A.
I don't know.
I could speculate.
I
14
mean, this -- this prototype that we're talking
15
about is a collection of different things and
16
it's, what?
17
hundreds of different corner cases.
18
it did something for those corner cases.
19
remember every single corner case a decade after
20
it was done.
21
Q.
22
one.
23
12 years ago.
We could walk through
I know that
I can't
Well, let's not go for every single
Let's just talk about the ones you
remember.
24
A.
Well, okay.
25
On those corner cases, I
don't know.
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 256
1
Q.
What do you mean by "corner cases"?
2
A.
When you get down to the detail level
3
of how some particular co-occurrence of different
4
things by different users for different document
5
sets for hypothetical queries, I'm not going to
6
be able to answer questions like that 10 years
7
after, you know, this was done.
8
9
Again, to remind you, I didn't build
these prototypes.
I helped collaborate with the
10
design of these things with Ken Lang who directed
11
the building of these prototypes.
12
much more familiar with the prototypes than
13
myself.
14
Q.
He would be
So when the prototypes were built, did
15
the builders have any leeway on how they were
16
implementing things or were they told exactly
17
what to do?
18
A.
I don't know how Ken directed them.
19
did not attend any of Ken's staff meetings or,
20
you know, research group meetings.
21
know, busy.
22
and myself.
23
Q.
I
24
25
I was, you
The collaboration was between Ken
The people that were busy building the
system, what kind of backgrounds did they have?
A.
Are you talking about the people who
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 258
1
2
MS. ALBERT:
A.
Objection.
I think that Lycos in 1998 was one of
3
the major leaders in the field, and there were
4
only a handful of companies that were employing
5
the same caliber of people.
6
Q.
Now, on the prototype that was
7
developed that you're familiar with, was it the
8
content-based filter that combined the results
9
that came from the content filter and the
10
collaborative filter?
11
MS. ALBERT:
Objection.
12
Q.
Let me -- let me withdraw that.
13
A.
Go ahead.
14
Q.
Where was the combination done of
15
information that came from the content-based
16
filter and the collaborative filter?
17
18
19
20
21
A.
The question "where" doesn't make a
lot of sense to me.
Q.
I mean --
In what software module was the
combination carried out?
A.
I don't think that we had a module
22
called the combiner module or anything like that.
23
I -- I don't know how to answer the question.
24
25
Q.
So was there a content-based filter
system that did the combining?
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 259
1
2
A.
I think that I've answered that
question.
3
Q.
What's the answer?
4
A.
That I don't know.
5
Q.
Even in -- in the prototype you don't
6
7
know?
A.
I didn't go through the source code of
8
the prototype.
I looked at some of the results
9
and some of the test queries.
And, in fact, I
10
don't think that I actually used the live
11
prototype.
12
results we got, A.
13
got, B.
14
like these.
15
on or this turned off or these factors.
16
we're making progress.
17
the type of interaction I had with the system.
18
Q.
I think that I had, here's the search
Here's the search results we
Which do you think are better.
Well, I
Well, that was with the thing turned
All right.
Look,
Isn't this great.
That's
So I'm a little confused
19
again, because one of the things you said was
20
you're not intimately familiar with the patent,
21
but you're intimately familiar with your
22
invention and how it worked.
23
A.
Uh-huh.
24
Q.
And now I'm asking you about --
25
A.
You're asking me about code in a
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 260
1
prototype from 10 years ago, and I'm answering
2
you, I'm not sure exactly where in this code in a
3
prototype 10 years ago that I didn't write a
4
particular mathematical function happens.
5
Q.
So you don't know whether there was a
6
content-based filtering system that did the
7
combining of the content-based information in and
8
the collaborative-based information?
9
A.
10
I do not know.
(Kosak Exhibit No. 13, Kosak
11
PowerPoint presentation created for
12
WiseWire, bearing Bates Nos.~IPEL0000306
13
through IPEL0000314, marked for
14
identification as of this date.)
15
Q.
Do you recognize this document?
16
A.
I think this was a PowerPoint
17
18
19
20
presentation that I created for WiseWire.
Q.
What is agent mediated versus query
based on that first page?
A.
In the late '90s, agent mediated was a
21
buzz word in the industry, meaning that software
22
acted on your behalf.
23
equation versus query based, that's you're acting
24
on your own behalf entering a query and results
25
are coming out.
And the other side of that
That's how I interpret it today.
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Confidential Pursuant to Protective Order
Page 275
1
2
BY MR. BILSKER:
Q.
Mr. Kosak, when you were at Lycos, did
3
you fill out any kind of official form detailing
4
your invention before the '440 -- '420 or '664
5
were filed?
6
A.
I don't recall.
7
Q.
Were you involved in any way in the
8
prosecution, the back and forth between -- with
9
the patent office over the '420 or '664 patent?
10
A.
I was involved in about 50 or 60
11
patents with Lycos.
12
patents I handled particular pieces of inquiries
13
from the patent office.
14
that I'm a listed inventor that -- that I saw
15
them.
16
17
Q.
I don't recall exactly which
I'm assuming on the ones
Did you help in distinguishing any of
the prior art?
18
MS. ALBERT:
19
A.
Objection.
One of the difficulties I have in
20
answering this question is that the patent
21
numbers don't get assigned until years after the
22
fact.
23
on, I did research into prior art, and some of
24
the patents somebody else, one of the other named
25
inventors, did research in the prior art.
And in many of the patents that I worked
Veritext Corporate Services
800-567-8658
973-410-4040
Disclaimer: Justia Dockets & Filings provides public litigation records from the federal appellate and district courts. These filings and docket sheets should not be considered findings of fact or liability, nor do they necessarily reflect the view of Justia.
Why Is My Information Online?