Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 1180

Declaration of Hankil Kang in Support of #1140 Administrative Motion to File Under Seal filed bySamsung Electronics Co. Ltd.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit 1, #2 Exhibit 2)(Related document(s) #1140 ) (Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 7/3/2012)

Exhibit 13
(Submitted Under Seal)

HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION

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APPLE, INC., a California
corporation,

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CASE NO.
11cv01846-LHK

Plaintiff,
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v.
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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS, CO., LTD.,
a Korean business entity;
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
INC., a New York corporation;
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS
AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware limited
liability company,

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11
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Defendants.
________________________________

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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS, CO., LTD.,
a Korean business entity;
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
INC., a New York corporation;
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS
AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware limited
liability company,

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Counterclaim-Plaintiffs,

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v.
APPLE, INC., a California
corporation,
Counterclaim-Defendant.

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*** HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY ***

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VIDEOTAPED PERSONAL DEPOSITION OF:
MINHYOUK LEE

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March 2, 2012
Kim & Chang
Seoul, South Korea
9:03 A.M. - 3:47 P.M.
American Realtime Court Reporters / Asia
www.americanrealtime.com· [phone]

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We understand the court reporter is not
authorized to administer oaths in this venue.
Nevertheless we request that he administer the oath and we
stipulate that we waive any objection to the validity of
the deposition based on the oaths.
THE REPORTER:
Counsel, agreed?
MR. ZELLER: is.
It
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: court reporter, Mike
Our
Miller of American Realtime Court Reporters Asia, will now
swear in the interpreters and the witness, and we shall
proceed.
(Interpreters sworn.)
MINHYOUK LEE,
having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
EXAMINATION
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Good morning, sir. Could you please state your
name for the record?
A. My name is MinHyouk Lee.
LEAD INTERPRETER:
M-I-N-H-Y-O-U-K, L-E-E.
BY MR. STERN:
Q. By whom are you employed, Mr. Lee?
A. My employer?
Q. Yes.
A. Samsung Electronics Co. Is that what you're

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A. My current position, December 2010.
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Q. So do I understand correctly that since
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December 2010 you have been vice president of the Mobile
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Communications Team?
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A. That is correct.
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CHECK INTERPRETER:
"Yes."
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BY MR. STERN:
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Q. Has your title changed since December 2010?
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A. No.
(MH Lee Deposition Exhibit 2105 marked.)
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BY MR. STERN:
Q. I'm going to ask the court reporter to mark as 12
Exhibit 2105 a document, which I'll ask you to take a look 13
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at, Mr. Lee. It's a document which bears Bates number
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S-ITC-003006128.
Mr. Lee, do you see your name on Exhibit 2105? 16
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A. Yes.
Q. And does this document accurately reflect your 18
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current title and position within Samsung Electronics?
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A. Title and position, I believe are the same
thing, and this is a list of the team members I had that I 21
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led last year.
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CHECK INTERPRETER:
Excuse me. "Title and
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position I believe are the same, and this is the list of
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the team organizations I was a part of at last year."

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asking? I don't understand exactly when you say
"employer." Are you asking about the group or the
representative? I'm confused.
Q. By what particular entity of Samsung
Corporation are you employed?
A. Samsung Electronics Company.
Q. And what's your current title at Samsung
Electronics?
A. I am a vice president.
Q. Vice president of what, Mr. Lee?
A. Mobile Communications Division, Design Team.
I'm the vice president there, MinHyouk Lee.
Q. And in that position, you are currently a
member of the Design Group; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And within the Design Group, are you a member
of any other particular subgroup or organization?
A. Based on the design team, are you asking of a
department above that design team, or below that design
team? Could you clarify, please?
Q. I'm asking you what portion of the Design Group
are you a member of.
A. Oh, within the design team, I'm part of the
product design team.
Q. When did you assume your current position?
Page 9

Page 8

MR. STERN:
Understood.
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Mr. Lee, prior to December 2010, what was your
title at Samsung Electronics?
(A discussion was had off the record between
Lead Interpreter and Check Interpreter in Korean.)
A. Before December 2010, I was a principal.
CHECK INTERPRETER:
"Principal engineer."
LEAD INTERPRETER: stand by her rendition.
I
BY MR. STERN:
Q. And as principal engineer prior to
December 2010, what portion of the Design Group were you a
member of?
A. I think it's designer or principal designer.
I was a unit leader of the IDC.
CHECK INTERPRETER:
"Group."
BY MR. STERN:
Q. The IDC is the ID Cluster; is that correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. Exhibit 2105 lists you as director of
the ID Cluster. Do you see that?
A. Yes, I see that. It says "part leader." I
think there's a little bit of a confusion, but it's part
leader.
CHECK INTERPRETER: think there's a little
"I

American Realtime Court Reporters / Asia
www.americanrealtime.com· [phone]

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design alone.

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CHECK INTERPRETER:
"Yes, I find it vague
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myself. Design is not about only one aspect. The design
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has all different aspects involved, and all these come
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together to become a product. And there are design
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engineers who get involved, and maybe one find the design
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to be a part of it, so -- another one may not, so I don't
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think you can really make any decision or determination
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just based on that alone, and I found it vague."
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BY MR. STERN:
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Q. In the paragraph that we've been looking at,
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the third bullet point in the middle of page 10251327,
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Mr. Lee, do you see a reference to "emotion"?
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A. Yes.
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Q. When you were designing the Galaxy S, did you 15
try to create a product that would have emotional appeal
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for customers?
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A. Now, it says here in the paragraph "based on
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emotional CMF." That is what we're referring to here. If 19
you look at the back end, there's new technologies in
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regards with CMF that we're introducing. This is going to 21
bring about new emotions. Basically, CMF stands for
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color, material, finishing.
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Q. In general as a designer, do you believe it's 24
important to design products that will have an emotional
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that have emotional appeal for as many people as possible?
MR. ZELLER:
Assumes facts, vague, overbroad.
A. As I repetitively say, Samsung is a company
that mass produces, and we cannot just focus on emotional
appeal alone. Good manufacturing, that's a guideline for
design as well you see. So just one aspect, we talk about
did you design towards this or not, I cannot say.
CHECK INTERPRETER:
Interjection: "As I
repeatedly say, there are many different elements in the
design, and Samsung is a company that does mass
production, and designers cannot really focus in on
emotional appeal only. The mass production and thorough
guideline thereof is an important element, so you cannot
really make a judgment based on that alone."
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Directing your attention to page 6 of this
document, Mr. Lee, with the Bates sequence ending in 333,
you see here a number of products listed. Can you explain
to me, please, the relationship between these various
products?
MR. ZELLER: question is overbroad and
The
vague.
A. It's talking about the Galaxy S, yes. The
Galaxy S.
BY MR. STERN:

appeal to customers?
MR. ZELLER: question is vague, overbroad.
The
A. Yes, I also feel that is the case. To give you
an example, the first Ford T Model vehicle, whether it's
beautiful or not, we can't say; but it has historic
meaning, and that is because it was the first ever vehicle
to be mass produced.
When you evaluate design elements, you cannot
just focus on this one part or ask questions that are too
broad. With that alone, we could talk for several days
and sort of just focus on one aspect for it to be too
broad. I can't answer.
BY MR. STERN:
Q. I understand that different people may find the
same object beautiful or not beautiful. However, when you
design a cell phone product, how do you try to design it
so that it has emotional appeal for as many people as
possible?
MR. ZELLER:
Assumes facts, it's vague,
overbroad.
A. Your question was too long. I'm sorry, could
you ask it again?
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Sure.
How do you try to design cell phone products
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Q. Are all of the products listed on this page
variants of the Galaxy S design?
A. Yes, Galaxy S products.

MR. STERN:
Okay. Let me back up then.
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Once more, with respect to page ending 333,
Mr. Lee, am I correct that you and your team designed a
product called the Galaxy S?
A. My team and also another team was also there,

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yeah.

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Q. And was that Galaxy S design used to
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manufacture various cell phone products that were sold in
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various countries throughout the world?
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CHECK INTERPRETER:
Correction.
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(A discussion was had off the record between 6
Lead Interpreter and Check Interpreter in Korean.)
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MR. ZELLER: question is vague.
The
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A. It's hard for me to exactly understand your
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question regarding that.
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BY MR. STERN:
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Q. This page lists a number of different products 12
under various product names, such as Captivate, Fascinate, 13
Vibrant and so on. Are all the products listed on this
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page based on the Galaxy S design?
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A. It is based on the Galaxy S platform.
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CHECK INTERPRETER: think it's actually:
I
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"Rather, they are based on the Galaxy S platform."
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BY MR. STERN:
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Q. Directing your attention to Bates page ending 20
335, Mr. Lee, you see in the middle of the page, there is
a reference to an article from the Financial Times that
says, "Hopeful Samsung wheels out a would-be iPhone
killer."
A. Yes, I see that.

Q.
iPhone?
A.

Was the Galaxy S designed to compete with the

That is not the case.
(MH Lee Deposition Exhibit 2107 marked.)
BY MR. STERN:
Q. You've been handed a one-page document that's
marked as Exhibit 2107, Mr. Lee. It has Bates number
SAMNDCA10763590. What is this document, Mr. Lee?
A. It is a recommendation for 2010 iF Product
Design Awards.
Q. Do you see your name listed as one of the
designers on this document for the Galaxy S?
A. Yes.
Q. In the section that is labeled "Concept
Summary," about three-quarters of the way down the page,
please take a look at that section, if you would.
(Witness reviews document.)
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Could I ask you to please read the paragraph
that is next to the phrase "Concept Summary"?

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CHECK INTERPRETER: like to note that the
I'd
main interpreter was asked to provide a side translation
impromptu. As to the actual quality of the translation,
it will have to be -- undergo further proof work.
MR. STERN:
Sure.
BY MR. STERN:

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Q. Do you remember receiving this award, Mr. Lee?
A. Yes.
Q. And this document reflects the award that you
received?
MR. ZELLER: question is vague.
The
A. This is the recommendation template.
BY MR. STERN:
Q. But the template was submitted on behalf of
your design team to receive the award; is that correct?
A. This is not the team. I personally did this
design, so it's my design, you see. And working together,
there's other ancillary work that has to be taken care of
when doing this. That's why you see the name of another
designer.
CHECK INTERPRETER: one minor correction:
Just
"This is not for the team."
THE WITNESS: we been going on for an
Have
hour?
MR. STERN:
Sure. Should we take a break?
THE WITNESS: have to take a restroom break.
I

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to a massive production or they could not. Or sometimes
the creativity plays a bigger role with a designer or
sometime it doesn't.
"So when it comes to archetype design, in
overall design aspect of it, setting aside what is
presented here, archetype design encompasses many
different events and many different experiences for the
designers."
A. So archetype design should not be limited in
any way, you see? It could be designers traveling or
taking trips all over the world, for instance, Egypt,
Vietnam, France, the United Kingdom. That could be
archetype design, and it's basically having a new
experience, understanding cultures. That is a part of
design.
And also, for instance, technology could be
included. Regional characteristics are also a part of
that. In a sense design, all of the aspects in design in
general, overall, is what it is.
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Was the design for the Galaxy S based on any
particular archetype design at Samsung?
MR. ZELLER: question is vague as to
The
"archetype design."
A. Well, to talk about my experience, and not just

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BY MR. STERN:
Q. Are you able to identify for me a point in time
at which the design process for the Galaxy S began?

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A. So I cannot accurately recall, I don't remember
accurately, see, and the reason for that is because I do
several projects at the same time. And when I was working
on the Galaxy S, concurrently I was working on other
projects, and so exactly when I -- it was -- I was
involved, the exact date, I cannot really tell you.
BY MR. STERN:

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pertaining to the Galaxy S. I mean, I started to draw
when I was three years old, and in university, I majored
and studied in automotive design, product design. I've
been designing automobiles for five years, and now at
Samsung it's been ten years doing design work.
And that's just a part of my life, all of the
experiences that I have, that I have accumulated within
me, you know, that is what it is. Ten -- everything that
I've seen ten years ago, yesterday, based on my experience
is where it comes out, not some particular archetype
design.
CHECK INTERPRETER: it's difficult to say
"So
what it's based on. I think it's rather vague and
difficult to express it that way."
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Okay. Mr. Lee, were you the lead designer for
the Galaxy S?
A. Yes.
Q. How did the design process for the Galaxy S
begin?
MR. ZELLER: question is overbroad.
The
A. The beginning of the Galaxy S, it's hard to
really pinpoint that, where it started in terms of whether
it spurred out of design, hardware, product, planning, and
so forth. So it's really hard to pinpoint that.

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BY MR. STERN:
Q. What's the first concrete step that you
remember taking in regard to the design of the Galaxy S?
(A discussion was had off the record between
Lead Interpreter and Check Interpreter in Korean.)

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BY MR. STERN:
Q. Did someone else at Samsung instruct you to
begin work on designing the Galaxy S?
A. Someone else at Samsung?
Q. Yes. For example, one of your superiors.
A. Yes. At the design team, my superior told me

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A. Within the S Project, this is one of the design
drafts.
Q. In addition to Aries, can you recall any other
design drafts within the S Project that you haven't told
me about yet?
MR. ZELLER: question is grossly
The
misleading. You're suggesting that he's withheld
something, design drafts from you? There's no -- assumes
facts, argumentative, vague, lacks foundation.
MR. STERN: me clear this up.
Let
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Mr. Lee, within the S Project, in addition to
Aries, can you recall any other drafts or candidates by
their names as you sit here today?
A. Well, the Vesta, but in the S Project, there
are various design directions that we can take, and I
took -- I gave it to you through mock-ups or files, I
opened it. But to say how many there are, it's very
difficult and hard for me to really count that, because in
design, even the most minute changes we can call that a
different design, or we can call that the same design.
So there are a -- I remember that we talked
about a lot of different possibilities and talked a long
time about that.
CHECK INTERPRETER:
"Yes, the Vesta could be

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Q. Well, that's my question for you. Do you
recognize this document?
A. A document in this format, I have not seen
before.
Q. Do you recognize this as a document created by
Samsung to list design mock-up histories?
(A discussion was had off the record between
Lead Interpreter and Check Interpreter in Korean.)
A. Well, it appears to me that this has been
extracted from software or something like that and not
made. It's the first time for me as well to see this
format of a document. Maybe it's just because I didn't
print it out before, but yes, anyway...
CHECK INTERPRETER: seeing this type
"I'm
document for the first time."
BY MR. STERN:
Q. At row 74, do you see a reference to "Aries 4.0
Touch Phone"?
A. 74?
Q. Row 74, yes, on page ending 242.
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Is that the design that ultimately
became the Galaxy S?
A. It is a draft of the S Project.
Q. Are you able to tell me whether this draft was

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one of them. I'm not very good with memorializing or
remembering project names. But there are lots of
different design suggestions for the S Project, and I
believe I opened that through mock-ups and my files. But
trying to come up with how many there were, I cannot
really give you an exact answer to that, because even
however slight the modification or change might take
place, when it comes to design, we might consider that as
a different design proposal, or it may be considered the
same.
"So within the S Project, there were many
different discussions over a period of time."
(MH Lee Deposition Exhibit 2111 marked.)
BY MR. STERN:
Q. I'm going to ask the reporter to hand you
another document, Mr. Lee. This will be Exhibit 2111.
It's a multipage document running from SAMNDCA10144232
through 280, and it's entitled "Design Mock-Up History."
And I'd like to direct your attention to the page ending
in 242, particularly at row 74.
A. Can I look at the document first?
Q. Sure.
(Witness reviews document.)
A. This type of document, where was it made?
BY MR. STERN:

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the draft that ultimately became the Galaxy S?
A. Well, I cannot say exactly that it is this
draft, because before the release of the product, the
design constantly changes. This is one draft among the
many, and this design, like it takes off clothes and it
changes like that, and until the release, newly it's built
up, we build it up. And so I cannot say that this is
exactly the draft. The connection would be not big, to
say it like that.
(MH Lee Deposition Exhibit 2112 marked.)
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Okay. I have another document for you here,
Mr. Lee. This would be Exhibit 2112, correct, which bears
Bates numbers S-ITC-007754234 through 239. Do you
recognize this document, Mr. Lee?
A. This is the first time I am seeing this format
of a document. This is not something under my purview.
Q. Do you have any doubt that it was created by
Samsung?
MR. ZELLER: question lacks foundation.
The
A. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I
haven't seen this format of a document before, and
performing DIA and the sort is other work that is not
related to me, is what I'm saying.
BY MR. STERN:

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American Realtime Court Reporters / Asia
www.americanrealtime.com· [phone]

HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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Q.
A.

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What is DIA?
I don't know what exactly it is, DIA.
(MH Lee Deposition Exhibit 2113 marked.)
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Okay. I've got another document for you here,
Mr. Lee. It would be Exhibit 2113. It's a multipage
document extending from S-ITC-007849424 through 492.
MR. ZELLER: sorry, I have ending 493.
I'm
MR. STERN: sorry, you're right, 493.
I'm
A. I will look over it.
(Witness reviews document.)
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Do you see your name on the first page of
Exhibit 2113, Mr. Lee?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And you're identified as product designer,
correct?
A. That is correct.
Q. And the document is entitled "Aries (GT-I9000)
Global GSM Level 2." Are you able to tell me what this
document is, Mr. Lee?
A. Well, this was not prepared by the design team,
and I myself do not know well if it was made by product
planning or marketing. So I don't know what "Level 2"
refers to here.

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Q. But you believe it was created by the product
planning or the marketing department at Samsung; is that
correct?
A. Yes, well that is my guess. It is not -- it
could not be accurate, though, maybe.
Q. Have you seen a document like this in the past?
A. Well, yes, I have, although I did not look
through something like this in great detail. I cannot
remember all the sentences, but yes, I did.
Q. Do you have any doubt that it's a document
created internally in Samsung?
MR. ZELLER:
Lacks foundation, calls for
speculation.
A. Well, I cannot give you an exact answer, but it
looks like related content. I believe it is made by
Samsung.
CHECK INTERPRETER: think it is made by
"I
Samsung."
BY MR. STERN:
Q. Directing your attention to the page that ends
with 428 in this document, page entitled "Positioning Competition Map"?
A. Yes.
Q. And towards the left-hand side of the page you
see a reference to the iPhone 3GS?

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Mr. Lee, when you were designing the Galaxy S, 1
2
did you consider the Apple iPhone 3GS product in any
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regard?
4
MR. ZELLER:
First of all, the question is a
5
non sequitur as to this document, which he has already
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testified he hasn't seen before, so there's no foundation
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as to that. And the question is vague and ambiguous,
8
since it appears to be linking these up.
9
A. Looking at this positioning competition map,
this map, looking at this and asking that, I don't
10
understand the -- because the positioning meaning here or 11
12
the document meaning, I don't know.
13
CHECK INTERPRETER:
"Looking at this
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positioning competition map, I don't know why you're
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coming up with that document based on this mapping. I
don't understand as to the meaning, based on this
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mapping."
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BY MR. STERN:
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Q. Putting aside this document for a moment,
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you're familiar with the Apple iPhone 3GS, correct?
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A. Yes, I know it.
Q. When you were asked to begin work on designing 22
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the Galaxy S, did anybody say to you, "We need a product
to compete with the iPhone 3GS," or words to that effect? 24
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A. No, that was not the case. We needed a

smartphone, and we did not have in mind a particular model
in the design or development.
Q. Did anybody say to you when you undertook
design of the Galaxy S that you should design a product
that looked like the iPhone or words that effect?
A. No, that didn't -- that did not take place.
Q. Did anybody say to you, "Don't design a product
that looks like the iPhone," or words to that effect?
MR. ZELLER: question is argumentative,
The
vague.
A. Whether that was said or not, no, I've never
heard of that before, and as the leader of the project, I
just proceeded in the perspective of developing the
Galaxy S.
BY MR. STERN:
Q. What does that mean, "proceeded in the
perspective of developing the Galaxy S"?
A. We took the given hardware specs, the design
direction from the Haptic, the Jet, to the Galaxy S, and
afterwards, just took the perspective of that design and
concentrated only on that and did not refer to anything
that anybody else said.
Q. But you knew, didn't you, Mr. Lee, that the
smartphone that you were developing would compete with the
Apple iPhone 3GS, didn't you?

Page 61

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American Realtime Court Reporters / Asia
www.americanrealtime.com· [phone]

HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
94..97
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that, to list each one would be very difficult for you to
understand, so I just talked -- gave a simple one.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q. What you provided in your answers were examples
of ways that you sought to differentiate the Galaxy S?
MR. STERN:
Objection to the extent that it
purports to be a gloss or modification of his previous
answer. Also object as leading.
A. Differentiating the design, that is to have it
different from others and to have the exclusive Samsung
heritage, it starts from the inside of the design. And
there are hundreds of considerations and different types
that I have given, and I just gave you one single example,
an easy talk.
But in the design concept, there's various
other things, such as materials and weight, so forth.
Weight was also an important consideration, heavy, light,
how do I make it? I want it to be to consumers, "Wow,
this is the weight that -- it feels like what I've been
using." So I, in designing the Galaxy S, concentrated as
well on getting the right weight. I thought that if it
was the weight of a cup of coffee, it would come across as
friendly to consumers, what they're used to holding in the
morning, so I made it similar to that.
Some things that others do not think of, that
Page 96

(Counsel representing this witness should arrange for
reading and signing and thereafter distribute copies of
the signed Errata sheet to opposing counsel without
involvement of the court reporter.)

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C E R T I F I C A T E

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SEOUL

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SOUTH KOREA

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STYLE OF CASE:

Apple vs. Samsung (ND CAL)

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DEPOSITION OF:

MINHYOUK LEE

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TAKEN:

March 2, 2012

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is differentiation. And in terms of materials, deciding
what parts, deciding the size, those are all cases of
differentiation, like the cup of coffee.
Q. Do you believe that you were successful in
differentiating the Galaxy S in ways other than size?
A. Yes, of course. I think we succeeded and
differentiated in many ways.
MR. ZELLER: have nothing further. Thank
I
you.
MR. STERN: the record.
Off
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: time is 3:47. This is
The
the end of Tape 5. We are off the record.
(Off the record at 3:47 p.m.)

E R R A T A
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S H E E T

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)
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)

I, Michael E. Miller, Registered Diplomate
Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, do hereby certify
that the aforementioned witness was first duly sworn by me
pursuant to stipulation of counsel to testify to the
truth; that I was authorized to and did report said
deposition in stenotype; and that the foregoing pages are
a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes of
said deposition.

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Reason

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I further certify that said deposition was
taken at the time and place hereinabove set forth and that
the taking of said deposition was commenced and completed
as hereinabove set out.

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I hereby certify that I have read my deposition and that
it is true and correct subject to any changes in form or
substance entered here.

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________________
Date

_________________________
MINHYOUK LEE

I further certify that I am not attorney or
counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or
employee of any attorney or counsel of any party connected
with the action, nor am I financially interested in the
action.
The foregoing certification of this
transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same
by any means unless under the direct control and/or
direction of the certifying reporter.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
hand this March 4, 2012.

____________________________
MICHAEL E. MILLER
Certified Realtime Reporter
Registered Diplomate Reporter
Realtime Systems Administrator

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American Realtime Court Reporters / Asia
www.americanrealtime.com· [phone]