Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 1351

Unredacted Claim Construction Brief by Samsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC(a Delaware limited liability company) re 1256 Order on Administrative Motion to File Under Seal, re (Dkt. No. 1183) (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 2 to the Schmidt Declaration, # 2 Exhibit 4 to the Schmidt Declaration, # 3 Exhibit 9 to the Schmidt Declaration, # 4 Exhibit 10 to the Schmidt Declaration, # 5 Exhibit 11 to the Schmidt Declaration, # 6 Exhibit 12 to the Schmidt Declaration, # 7 Exhibit 13 to the Schmidt Declaration, # 8 Exhibit 14 to the Schmidt Declaration)(Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 7/26/2012) Modified text on 7/27/2012 (dhm, COURT STAFF).

EXHIBIT 9
FILED UNDER SEAL

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA, SAN JOSE DIVISION
_______________________________
APPLE INC., a California
)
corporation,
)
)
Plaintiff,
)
)
vs.
) Case No.
) 11-CV-01846-LHK
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
)
LTD., a Korean business
)
entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS )
AMERICA, INC., a New York
)
corporation; SAMSUNG
)
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA, )
LLC, a Delaware limited
)
liability company,
)
)
Defendants.
)
_______________________________

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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF KARAN SINGH, PH.D.
Redwood Shores, California
Thursday, April 26, 2012
Volume I

Reported by:
Danielle de Gracia
CSR No. 13650
Job No. 143641
PAGES 1 - 285

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THE WITNESS:

My definition of what --

2

the -- the -- sort of the plain English language

3

meaning of embedded to me means that something exists

4

inside something else.

5

BY MR. BRIGGS:

6

Q

Okay.

12:57:30
With that meaning, can a electronic

7

document have another electronic document embedded

8

within it?

9

MR. MONACH:

10

THE WITNESS:

Objection.

Vague.

Again, it depends on how you

12:57:45

11

define embedding because embedding, you can talk of

12

embedding at -- at a visual level, and you can talk

13

of embedding perhaps at a -- at a machine level.

14

it really needs to be -- it would be need to be

15

clarified.

16

BY MR. BRIGGS:

17

Q

So

12:58:08

So can an -- an electronic document have

18

another electronic document embedded within it at the

19

machine level?

20

MR. MONACH:

21

THE WITNESS:

Objection.

Vague.

12:58:22

At the machine level, if it

22

did, then the -- the overall document -- at the

23

machine level, I mean, you can take -- at the machine

24

level everything is -- is -- is a bunch of -- of

25

bits.

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You could take any -- any combination of

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bits and -- and put them inside another combination

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of bits, absolutely.

4

intelligible to the computer anymore is a different

5

question.

6

BY MR. BRIGGS:

7
8

Q

12:59:14

What's the difference between an electronic

document and a structured electronic document?

9
10

Whether that would be

MR. MONACH:

Object to the form of the

question.

11

12:59:25

THE WITNESS:

A structured electronic

12

document is an electronic document which when -- when

13

parsed and -- and displayed by the computer has

14

regions and structure that has some semantic meaning

15

to the human viewing it.

16

BY MR. BRIGGS:

17

Q

18

12:59:48

And how does that differ than an electronic

document?

19

MR. MONACH:

20

THE WITNESS:

21

a plain electronic document.

22

BY MR. BRIGGS:

23
24

Q

Object to the form.
The lack of structure in just

01:00:09

So is it your position that an electronic

document does not have structure in it?

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MR. MONACH:

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Objection.

Incom- --

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incomplete hypothetical.

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THE WITNESS:

No, I did not say that.

I

3

mean, a structured electronic document is also an

4

electronic document.

5

an electronic document cannot have structure in it.

6

BY MR. BRIGGS:

7
8

Q

So clearly you cannot say that
01:00:47

So is a structured electronic document a

subset of electronic document?

9

A

Yes, I believe so.

10

Q

So if we -- we were to draw a Venn diagram,

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the -- the big circle would have electronic document

12

in it, and there would be a smaller circle with

13

01:01:09

structured electronic document within it?

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15
16
17

A

It may not be a smaller circle, but it

certainly would not be a bigger circle.
Q

01:01:23

So are there electronic documents that are

not structured electronic documents?

18

MR. MONACH:

Object -- object to form.

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THE WITNESS:

That would depend on the

20

pers- -- say that again.

21

that?

22

BY MR. BRIGGS:

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24

Q

Sorry.

Can you repeat

01:01:44

Are there electronic documents that are not

structured electronic documents?

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MR. MONACH:

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Object to the form of the

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question.

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THE WITNESS:

3

patent, yes.

4

In the context of the '163

BY MR. BRIGGS:

5
6
7

Q

Why do you qualify your answer within the

01:02:13

context of the '163 patent?
A

Because the '163 patent deals with a

8

specific area of talking about -- about -- about

9

readability of structured electronic documents, and

10

so it sort of sets the context for the kind of

11

structure that -- that a person of ordinary skill in

12

the art would be -- would look for in such -- in such

13

documents under -- yes.

14

Q

01:02:48

Can -- can you, in the context of the '163

15

patent, could you give me an example of an electronic

16

document that's not a structured electronic document?

17

MR. MONACH:

01:03:12

Object to the form of the

18

question.

Incomplete hypothetical to the extent it

19

calls for a legal conclusion.

20

THE WITNESS:

In the context of the '163

21

patent, an electronic document that -- that -- that

22

does not necessarily have the -- the -- the -- have

23

the sort of -- the -- the structure that the -- that

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the '163 is talking about would -- would sort of

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be -- it would just be a default.

01:03:30

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Yeah, it would

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just be a -- a document, yeah, which -- which had --

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yeah, it was structureless, yes.

3

BY MR. BRIGGS:

4

Q

Can you give me any examples of electronic

5

documents that are not structured electronic

6

documents in the context of the '163 patent?

7

A

A music file.

8

Q

Any other examples?

9

A

Well, that's one.

01:04:36

A file containing

10

three-dimensional graphical objects, strictly

11

three-dimensional graphical data.

12

Q

Any others?

13

A

Well, at least those.

14

Q

At least those.

01:05:10

15

So why wouldn't a music

file be a structured electronic document?

16

MR. MONACH:

17

question.

18

01:05:28

Object to the form of the

Incomplete hypothetical.

BY MR. BRIGGS:

19

Q

In the context of the '163 patent.

20

A

In the context of the '163 patent.

21

Theoretically, there is nothing that precludes it.

22

However, a person of ordinary skill in the art

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would -- would typically not associate the -- the

24

sort of box-like structure that -- that is intended

25

in the '163 patent with something such as a -- a

01:05:38

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music file.

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not -- do not have that inherent, at least

3

inherently, have that -- have that structure

4

associated with them.

5

Typically, music files do not -- are

You could conceive of creating such a

6

situation, but that's -- that's -- that's something

7

that goes beyond what a person of ordinary skill in

8

01:06:49

art would understand.

9
10

Q

structured electronic document?

11
12

So a music file could conceivably be a

MR. MONACH:

Objection.

01:07:15
Incomplete

hypothetical.

13

THE WITNESS:

I -- I think a person of

14

ordinary skill in the art would say -- would say not

15

given the -- given the current understanding of music

16

files.

17

BY MR. BRIGGS:

18

Q

01:07:26

Now, why isn't a file containing strictly

19

three-dimensional data a structured electronic

20

document?

21
22

01:07:46

MR. MONACH:

Object to the form of the

question.

23

THE WITNESS:

Well, by strictly -- strictly

24

three-dimensional data, I mean, sort of the raw data

25

that -- that often is the result of -- of -- of

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three-dimensional acquisition techniques where you

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get a number of points.

3

a -- a big cloud of unstructured points which by

4

itself, to me, does not -- does not -- unless --

5

unless further worked on, it does not by itself

6

disclose any structure.

7

BY MR. BRIGGS:

8
9

Q

And by itself, it's just

01:08:27

Now, when you formulated your view

of what -- or your position of what a structured

10

electronic document means in the context of the '163

11

patent, did you review the inventor testimony?

12
13
14

A

01:08:50

If I did it would be cited in my report.

Maybe I can look for it.
Q

Rather than looking at the report -- I don't

15

remember seeing it in there either -- let me ask you

16

this question.

17

A

Okay.

18

Q

01:10:10

Richard Williamson is an inventor on the

19

'163 patent, correct?

20

A

Yes.

01:10:20

21

Q

During his deposition when he was asked what

22

is a structured electronic document, he stated, "A

23

structured document is something that has a visual

24

structure with structurally interesting components,

25

and there are many examples of a structured

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electronic document, whether it be a PDF document

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with an imposed structure or whether it be a Web page

3

with a structure, or an -- an .rtf document.

4

structured document is something that, you know, a

5

normal human can look at and identify areas of

6

interest."

7

So a

01:10:53

Do you agree with that definition?

8

A

By and large.

9

Q

Okay.

10

A

I would like to qualify that I think

11

Mr. Williamson was sort of assuming that -- that that

12

structure, not only was it -- it visually apparent to

13

the human, but in the examples that he gave, that

14

01:11:07

that structure existed in the document itself.

15

Q

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that?

17

A

Can -- can you describe what you mean by

Yes.

01:11:39

An example would be that -- would be

18

that Web pages have explicit HTML.

19

explicit tags such as a division that -- that allow

20

visually salient areas of content to be grouped

21

together, and that information is explicitly captured

22

in the document itself.

23

Q

Web pages have

01:12:04

So is it your position that the document has

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to have structural information that's not visible as

25

well as structural information that's visible?

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MR. MONACH:

Object to the form of the

2

question as vague and an incomplete hypothetical.

3

Calls for a legal conclusion.

4

THE WITNESS:

Yeah, I'm -- I -- I -- you'd

5

have to rephrase that question for me to answer it.

6

BY MR. BRIGGS:

7

Q

01:12:39

Well, in -- in the term "structured

8

electronic document," where is the structure?

9

something that a human can see or is it something

10

that a human cannot see?

11
12

Is it

MR. MONACH:
question.

13

Vague.

01:12:54

Object to the form of the
Incomplete hypothetical.

THE WITNESS:

Well, it could be either.

But

14

again, to -- to answer that question, clearly you --

15

you have to -- you have to qualify that with what the

16

human is seeing.

17

sort of the -- the machine representation of the

18

document or are they looking at the -- the visual

19

manifestation of that document once it has been

20

interpreted by a machine-readable -- a program?

21

So -- so which is it?

22

BY MR. BRIGGS:

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Q

01:13:08

Is the human seeing the -- the --

01:13:37

I was referring to a human seeing it on the

display of a touch screen, for example.
A

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Right.

So -- so the human is looking at --

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so -- so if I understand you correctly, the human is

2

looking at the machine-interpreted visual

3

manifestation of a structured electronic document.

4

Q

Correct.

5

A

Okay.

6

Q

So does the structured electronic document

Now, what's the question?

Sorry.

7

have to have structure that is visible to the human

8

on the screen as well as structure that's

9

01:14:06

understandable by the machine but not visible to the

10

human on the screen?

11
12

MR. MONACH:

15
16

Objection.

Vague.

Calls for a

legal conclusion.

13
14

01:14:27

THE WITNESS:

It could be either.

BY MR. BRIGGS:
Q

Now, did you see Dr. Gray's definition of

01:14:33

structured electronic document in his report?

17

A

In his invalidity report?

18

Q

Yes.

19

A

I believe I must have, but I don't --

20

Q

You don't recall offhand?

21

A

I don't recall offhand.

22

Q

Okay.

01:15:14

But you don't -- you don't recall

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whether you saw a definition by Dr. Gray and agreed

24

with it or disagreed with it?

25

A

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Well, if I disagreed with it, it would

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probably be in my validity report.
Q

If you had a structured electronic document

3

on a display and you enlarged the -- the structured

4

electronic document, you zoomed in on it for example,

5

and as you zoom in on it additional content is added.

6
7
8
9

01:16:09

Does that change the fact that the document
is a structured electronic document?
A

Okay.

I -- I think you -- can I have that

question read back to me?

10

(Record read.)

11

MR. MONACH:

12

THE WITNESS:

01:16:30

Objection.

Vague.

I would have to ask you

13

whether the additional content you referred to is

14

additional visual content or additional electron- --

15

additional electronic content.

16

BY MR. BRIGGS:

17
18

Q

It -- it --

01:17:13

Well, maybe you could answer under both of

those scenarios for me.

19

A

Okay.

20

Q

Sounds like your answer would be different.

21

A

Well, it -- I would need to know where this

22

additional content was coming from.

23

would have to -- I'd -- I actually need you to tell

24

me where this content was coming from.

25

content?

01:17:23

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And so -- so you

Which

This -- it's somewhat hypothetical, right?

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So in this hypothetical situation, you would have to

2

tell me where is this content coming from.

3

Q

Okay.

4

A

Uh-huh.

5

Q

And you zoomed in on that picture.

6

A

Uh-huh.

7

Q

And as you zoomed in on that picture,

8

Let's say we had a picture.

01:17:54

additional pixels were added.

9

A

Uh-huh.

10

Q

Would that change the fact that the

11

underlying electronic document is a structured

12

01:18:02

electronic document?

13
14

MR. MONACH:

Objection.

Vague.

Incomplete

hypothetical.

15

THE WITNESS:

In a scenario where a pixel --

16

an image was displayed as being somewhat small and

17

then the image was enlarged so that pixels that were

18

in the original document were not collapsed onto a

19

single pixel but were -- but -- but occupied -- but

20

occupied multiple pixels in that specific instance,

21

and the -- and it was essentially -- the data was

22

part of -- was part of the same original document,

23

that would be -- so in that scenario, what was the

24

question that you -- so I've -- I've -- I've -- I've

25

para- -- I've paraphrased the scenario, but now

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disagree with his defin- -- definition in this case?

2
3

MR. MONACH:

Objection.

Lack of foundation

and vague.

4

THE WITNESS:

I -- I would actually need --

5

I would need to know all the different parameters

6

under which he came to that conclusion to be able

7

to -- to say anything conclusively about this.

8

BY MR. BRIGGS:

9

Q

04:52:27

If he came to that conclusion with respect

10

to Launch Tile in the meaning of electronic document,

11

would you agree with that conclusion?

12
13

MR. MONACH:

Objection.

04:52:39

Lack of foundation

and vague.

14

THE WITNESS:

I would -- I would really need

15

to know all the different factors that -- that --

16

that led him to that conclusion.

17

questions that you have asked me have been quite out

18

of -- they -- they -- they have had -- they have been

19

sort of hypothetical to begin with and have had no

20

context either.

21

to --

22

BY MR. BRIGGS:

23

Q

04:52:53

What you -- the

So it would be impossible for me

04:53:12

Well, does electronic document have a

24

well-known meaning to one of ordinary skill in the

25

art in your field?

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MR. MONACH:

Objection.

Vague and

incomplete hypothetical.

3

THE WITNESS:

Yes.

Generally in -- in just

4

a general setting, an electronic document is -- is a

5

file in a, you know, in -- that is -- that is stored

6

on a computational device.

7

BY MR. BRIGGS:

8
9

Q

So your definition of electronic document is

a file stored on a computational device?

10
11

04:53:39

A

Well, stored on a -- on a computer storage

04:54:04

medium.

12

Q

Does it have to be a file?

13

A

Well, a file is usually some cohesive piece

14

of information.

15

it.

16

Yeah.
Q

17
18

So that's one way of talking about
04:54:25

Can it be anything other than a file?
MR. MONACH:

Objection.

Vague.

Incomplete

hypothetical.

19

THE WITNESS:

It could be as long as there

20

was enough evidence to -- to treat them as -- as a

21

cohesive, something that a person of ordinary skill

22

in the art would think of as a cohesive document.

23

BY MR. BRIGGS:

24
25

Q

Let's assume the court construed the term

structured electronic document to mean something that

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is visually represented on a display with a define

2

set of boundaries.

3

A

Visually represented on a display -- okay.

4

Q

In that case -- under that hypothetical

5

construction, would Launch Tile anticipate Claim 2 of

6

the '163 patent?

7
8

MR. MONACH:

Objection.

04:55:20

Incomplete

hypothetical.

9

THE WITNESS:

So the -- the hypothetical

10

construction of a structured electronic document that

11

you are giving me is just some piece of electronic

12

information that visually appears with some -- with

13

some understood boundaries.

14
15

04:55:39

Okay.

So and then the question is under that -under that --

04:56:05

16

Q

Construction.

17

A

Construction, does Launch Tile anticipate

18

Claim 2?

19

Q

Correct.

20

A

I don't believe so.

21

Q

Okay.

22

A

At least for the reason that -- at least for

04:56:16

Do you know why?

23

the reason that -- to begin with, the structure that

24

is disclosed by Launch Tile is independent of the

25

structure of any document.

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So what that means is

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I, the undersigned, a Certified Shorthand

2

Reporter of the State of California, do hereby

3

certify:

4

That the foregoing proceedings were taken

5

before me at the time and place herein set forth;

6

that any witnesses in the foregoing proceedings,

7

prior to testifying, were placed under oath; that a

8

verbatim record of the proceedings was made by me

9

using machine shorthand which was thereafter

10

transcribed under my direction; further, that the

11

foregoing transcript is an accurate transcription

12

thereof.

13

I further certify that I am neither

14

financially interested in the action nor a relative

15

or employee of any attorney or party to this action.

16
17

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date
subscribed my name.

18
19

Dated:

April 30, 2012

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21
22

________________________________
Danielle de Gracia

23

CSR No. 13650

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