Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 279

Reply Declaration of Peter W. Bressler in Support of #86 Apple's Motion for Preliminary Injunction filed by Apple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit 1, #2 Exhibit 2, #3 Exhibit 3, #4 Exhibit 4, #5 Exhibit 5, #6 Exhibit 6, #7 Exhibit 7, #8 Exhibit 8, #9 Exhibit 9, #10 Exhibit 10, #11 Exhibit 11, #12 Exhibit 12, #13 Exhibit 13, #14 Exhibit 14, #15 Exhibit 15, #16 Exhibit 16, #17 Exhibit 17, #18 Exhibit 18, #19 Exhibit 19, #20 Exhibit 20, #21 Exhibit 21, #22 Exhibit 22, #23 Exhibit 23, #24 Exhibit 24, #25 Exhibit 25, #26 Exhibit 26, #27 Exhibit 27, #28 Exhibit 28, #29 Exhibit 29, #30 Exhibit 30, #31 Exhibit 31)(Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 9/30/2011) Modified on 10/3/2011 linkine entry to document #86 (dhm, COURT STAFF).

BRESSLER EXHIBIT 2

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

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NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

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SAN JOSE DIVISION

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APPLE, INC., a California
corporation,

)
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)CASE NO.
Plaintiff,
)11-CV-01846-LHK
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vs.
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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS, CO., LTD.,)
A Korean business entity;
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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
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INC., a New York corporation; )
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS
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AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware
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limited liability company,
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Defendants.
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***ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY***

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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
ITAY SHERMAN
New York, New York
Thursday, September 15, 2011

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Reported by:
JOMANNA DeROSA, CSR
JOB NO. 41963
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A.

I have been involved in the design

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of multiple products, including cellular phones

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and some consumer electronic devices.

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Q.

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the design.

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You said you've been involved in

What does that mean?

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A.

Correct.

In -- the company I

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worked in, MODU, I was CTO of the company, and I

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had been supervising the work of the ID design

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team, plus external teams.

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Q.

Did you do any of the designing?

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A.

I've been consulting to them.

I

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have been proposing ideas.

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whether I was actually sketching the 3-D images on

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a 3-D CAD system, I was not the one actually doing

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the CAD.

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Q.

If the question is

And what steps did the team at MODU

go through to design the products?
A.

We would usually start with a

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general concept of what is the functionality, what

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is the target audience and target device we want

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to achieve.

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We would then start with what we

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call the mood boards, which basically go through

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defining what is the overall image that we're

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would say is the technical impossibility is

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something that cannot be done in -- something that

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cannot be done in any conceivable way.

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Q.

Was there any case where you were

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told -- actually, I'm going to come back to that

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point.

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Did you take any courses in
industrial design?

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A.

No, I did not.

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Q.

Have you taught courses in

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industrial design?

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A.

No, I did not.

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Q.

Have you ever taken courses where

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you studied minimalism?

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A.

No.

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Q.

Have you read any books on

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minimalism?

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A.

Not specifically on minimalism, no.

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Q.

You say "not specifically on

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minimalism."

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Have you read books related to

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minimalism?

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A.

I've read some books where the

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mention of minimalism was there, but they were not

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the main subject of these books.

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help him.

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noncompound question in the first place.

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Q.

It's your obligation to ask a

Are there multiple --

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MR. ZELLER:

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Q.

Please ask one.

Are there -- are there multiple

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designs of telephones with keypads that are

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minimalistic?

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A.
would say yes.

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For a telephone with keypads, I

Q.

Are there multiple designs of

telephones without keypads that are minimalistic?

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A.

In the case of devices -- and I'm

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answering specifically for devices that are

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dominated by the large screen -- generally, the

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form is mostly dictated by the fact that there is

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a display.

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dictated.

And so the general form is pretty much

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And if we stick to the fact that

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you -- that minimalistic is not adding anything

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beyond, then the answer would be that overall, it

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wouldn't be.

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Q.

I'm not asking about a large

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display screen.

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without keypads.

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I'm asking about telephones

So are there multiple designs of

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that display as the interaction, which is the

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predominant form for smartphones today, these are

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the designs I was referring to when saying that

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there is essentially only one minimalistic design

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of it because it's predominated by the display.

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Q.

So you believe that -- so there's

no other way to design those phones?

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A.

That's not what I said.

I said

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that there would be -- when asked whether there

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would be multiple minimalistic designs for that

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phone, then the answer would be that I don't think

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there would be because their general shape is

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predominantly due to the display itself.

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they could be designed in other ways, that's a

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different question.

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Q.

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But those other ways would be

non-minimalistic?

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Whether

Is that the distinction you're
making?
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You've asked me regarding

minimalistic.

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Q.

Yes.

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A.

Regarding minimalistic, I'm saying

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there would be, in that specific case of the

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mobile phone that has a large display, which is

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also the element through which you are interacting

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with the phone, since that screen is the dominant

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part, there would not be multiple minimalistic

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designs or that you would significantly

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distinguish -- there would not be multiple

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minimalistic designs.

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Q.

What about tablet computers; do you

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believe that there are multiple minimalistic

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designs for tablet computers?

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A.

So when we're talking about --

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also, tablet computers include multiple types of

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designs in terms of their functionality.

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So if you -- if you could clarify

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if you're referring to tablets that have large

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screens and are completely -- the interaction is

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completely via the display, or are you referring

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to the large -- to the other examples of tablets?

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Q.
examples.

I'm not aware of the other
Please tell me what's out there.

A.

There are other designs where they

have foldable keypads and so on.

So --

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Q.

Let's exclude those --

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A.

Okay.

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Q.

-- those other designs, and focus

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on what you described as tablets that have large

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screens.

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A.

So for --

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Q.

So the question is:

For those, is

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there only one minimalist design for that type of

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tablet computer?

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A.

For a tablet that has a large

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screen through which all the interaction is made,

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trying to create a minimalistic design would

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basically fall to the same issue as I mentioned on

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the handsets, and that is that it is predominantly

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controlled by the screen itself.

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This is the main element.

Since

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the displays are essentially square in nature, the

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overall design is going to be square.

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generally, you would not have multiple

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minimalistic designs that differ significantly in

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that case.

And so

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Q.

Are you familiar with Tadao Ando?

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A.

No, I have not.

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Q.

Have you heard of Dieter Rams?

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A.

No, I have not.

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Q.

What about Ludwig Mies van der

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

Who is he?

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Rohe?

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A.

No, I did not take classes in law.

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Q.

Have you ever studied patent law?

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A.

I have not studied in courses

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patent law.

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Q.

Did you otherwise study patent law?

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A.

I have been made familiar with it

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through my work at MODU through the interaction

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with patent lawyers.

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somebody who's submitted patents, but not as a

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But again, to the extent of

patent lawyer.

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Q.

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to your work at MODU.

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We'll come back briefly -- shortly

Did you take any marketing classes?

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A.

No, I did not take marketing

Q.

Have you ever done any surveys?

classes.

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MR. ZELLER:

MS. TAYLOR:

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Sorry.

Did you say

Surveys.

surveys?

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A.

Have I done personally surveys?

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Did I go and actually executed them?

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not.

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them, the answer would be yes.

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No, I did

Whether I reviewed them, helped in creating

Q.

What kind of surveys did you review

or help create?

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bottom of the MODU-1 design that you couldn't show

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to me because we don't have a picture of the

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bottom of the phone?

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MR. ZELLER:

I'm sorry.

Which

other phone?

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MS. TAYLOR:

The MODU-1.

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MR. ZELLER:

The -- the first one?

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MS. TAYLOR:

Yes.

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MR. ZELLER:

Thank you.

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A.

Again, in the sense that this is

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sort of an elongated shape, almost oval,

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basically, two straight lines ending with

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rounded -- slightly rounded corners, yes, it is.

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Whether that's exactly the same height, width,

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radiuses, I don't think they are.

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not sure.

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But again, I'm

I haven't measured it.
Q.

Why do they have slightly rounded

A.

Again, it's -- on this design

corners?

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specifically, and generally when you're dealing

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with creation of holes for earpiece or speaker,

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the shape is very much dictated by the shape of

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the component inside and the location inside the

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phone.

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So both in our case here and also

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dimension as the earpiece component?

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MR. ZELLER:

The question is vague.

Incomplete hypothetical.

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A.

Again, this is trying to sort of

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capture general terms.

If you will direct me to

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things that I am aware of or designed, I can

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answer.

But that's a very general question.

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Q.

Have you designed earpiece slots?

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A.

Correct.

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Q.

Where did you design earpiece

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A.

As part of the MODU design.

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Q.

And in the case of the MODU

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slots?

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earpiece slots, was the dimension exactly the same

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for the earpiece slot as the earpiece component?

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A.

So in the case of MODU, the

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components that we used basically came up with

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recommendation on what would be the minimal hole

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size to be used with these components.

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size itself was not identical.

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So the

However, there were very clear

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limitations on what size that should be.

It

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should not extend beyond the earpiece itself so

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air wouldn't sort of flow out.

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specific limitations on how small it should be.

But it had very

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dimensions matched up exactly with the speaker

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components in those phones.

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A.

Is that correct?

We did not observe these pieces as

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part of taking this apart simply because we didn't

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have an interest in that specific part.

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Q.

Have you ever looked into or made

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any effort to figure out what any other companies

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have done in terms of matching up speaker slot

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dimensions to -- I'm sorry -- earpiece slot

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dimensions to earpiece components?

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MR. ZELLER:

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A.

The question is vague.

Are you asking me again if I took

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the phone apart and looked into these

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measurements?

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Q.

Or talked to manufacturers -- other

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handset manufacturers; anything you've done to

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figure out what people are doing.

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A.

Again, as I mentioned, we as a

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manufacturer had the direct connection with the

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component vendors.

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directions actually not only from one, but at

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least two that we have been in contact with.

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And we got these type of

So I assume that is the practice of

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most or all of these vendors to actually provide

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that.

That is also very rational because

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otherwise, the air would not flow.

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Q.

But other than those directions you

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got from the component manufacturers, you don't

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have any other particular knowledge on this issue?

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MR. ZELLER:

Mischaracterizes the

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witness' testimony.

He's given you his basis

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previously with engineering.

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to mischaracterize his testimony.

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improper.

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A.

So you continue
This is

It's asked and answered.
Again, I will repeat my answer

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here.

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in designing mobile phones, that these components

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come up with guidance on the size of the hole that

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needs to be maintained in order for them to

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operate within spec.

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Q.

Did MODU sell any tablet computers?

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A.

MODU did not sell tablet computers.

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Q.

Did it design any tablet computers?

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A.

MODU did not design a tablet,

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per se, no.

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Q.

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I know, based on the work that I have done

Did you ever give any input on the

design of a tablet computer?

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A.

Again, did I provide inputs on

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tablets or computers?

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Q.

Design of tablet computers.

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CERTIFICATE
STATE OF NEW YORK )

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)ss:
COUNTY OF NEW YORK)

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I, JOMANNA DeROSA, a Certified

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Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public within

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and for the States of New York, New Jersey,

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California and Arizona, do hereby certify:

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That ITAY SHERMAN, the witness

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whose deposition is hereinbefore set forth, was

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duly sworn by me and that such deposition is a

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true record of the testimony given by such

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witness.

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I further certify that I am not

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related to any of the parties to this action

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by blood or marriage, and that I am in no

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way interested in the outcome of this

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matter.

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In witness whereof, I have hereunto
set my hand this 16th day of September, 2011.

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_____________________
JOMANNA DeROSA

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TSG Reporting 877-702-9580