Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 945

EXHIBITS re #943 Declaration in Support,, Exhibits to Arnold Declaration (Exhibit 29) filed bySamsung Electronics America, Inc., Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC. (Attachments: #1 Ex. 34, #2 Ex. 35, #3 Ex. 53, #4 Ex. 62, #5 Ex. 70, #6 Ex. 83)(Related document(s) #943 ) (Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 5/18/2012)

EXHIBIT 29

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

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APPLE, INC., a California
corporation,

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Plaintiff,
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vs.
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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
a Korean business entity;
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
INC., a New York corporation;
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS
AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware
limited liability company,

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Defendants.

)
)
)
)
)
) Case No.
) 11-CV-01846-LHK
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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ROGER F. FIDLER

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TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF

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SEPTEMBER 23, 2011

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(Starting time of the deposition:

9:32 a.m.)

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Job Number: 41966

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THE WITNESS:

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MR. ZELLER:

Uh-huh.
If you understand the

3

question, you can try and answer it, but I -- I think

4

the question is objectionable is all I'm saying.

5

A.

The tablet PCs that were introduced by

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Microsoft or encouraged by Microsoft and the

7

e-readers, none of them lived up to my original vision

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of what a tablet should be, and so I believe I

9

accurately described in that caption for that photo

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that in my view the iPad was the first device to

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accurately represent the vision that I had been

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talking about since 1981.

13

Q.

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that vision was?

15

A.

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17
18

A.

This is asked and answered.

An easy-to-use device that would be optimum

for reading newspapers, magazines, and books.
MS. TAYLOR:

All right.

I have no further

questions.

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22

And can you tell me what

To have an easy- -MR. ZELLER:

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20

(By Ms. Taylor)

EXAMINATION
QUESTIONS BY MR. ZELLER:

23

Q.

So I do have some questions for you.

24

A.

Okay.

25

Q.

And is this a comfortable position for you?

Okay.

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A.

Sure.

2

Q.

Or do I need to move?

3

A.

No.

4

Q.

Okay.

5

Fine.

Fine.

Directing your attention to

Exhibit 266 --

6

A.

Uh-huh.

7

Q.

-- which is the presentation that you

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created --

9

A.

Uh-huh.

10

Q.

-- and the slides that you created in 2010.

11

A.

Uh-huh.

12

Q.

First of all, are the dates that are

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reflected in here a true and correct chronology of

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events?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And you created this document, Exhibit

18

A.

Uh-huh.

19

Q.

-- prior to the time that you knew of any

17

20

266 --

dispute between Apple and Samsung?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

Directing your attention to the second page

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of this Exhibit 266.

24

A.

Uh-huh.

25

Q.

This is a -- a drawing, as you testified

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about before?

2

A.

Yes, it's a drawing.

3

Q.

Pen-and-ink drawing that you created in

A.

Right.

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1981?

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6

MS. TAYLOR:

7
8

A.

Objection, leading.

With paste-up of type taken from a -- a

page from the New York Times.

9

Q.

(By Mr. Zeller)

And if you could please

10

describe -- well, first of all, did the tablet that

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you were drawing here --

12

A.

Did I just say New York Times?

13

Q.

Yes.

14

A.

Miami Herald.

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Miami

Herald.

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17

Please correct me.

Q.

Did the tablet that you drew back in

1981 --

18

A.

Uh-huh.

19

Q.

-- have any kind of buttons on it, any

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physical buttons?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

And was it your understanding or your

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vision that the tablet depicted here --

24

A.

Uh-huh.

25

Q.

-- would be operated entirely by

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touchscreen buttons?

2

A.

Yes, only by touch.

3

Q.

And was the tablet that you drew here a

4

continuous flat surface on the front?

5

A.

That was my assumption.

6

Q.

And that that continuous flat surface on

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the front of the tablet ran from edge to edge?

8

A.

9

MS. TAYLOR:

10
11

Yes.

Q.

Objection, leading.

(By Mr. Zeller)

And this tablet as you

envisioned it in 1981 --

12

A.

Uh-huh.

13

Q.

-- did it have a thin form factor?

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15
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MS. TAYLOR:

Objection, vague.

Which

tablet?
A.

Well, I didn't draw anything to indicate

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the thickness, but certainly envisioning something was

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lightweight, easy to hold.

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20

Q.

So I would assume thin.

(By Mr. Zeller)

With respect to the

various tablets that you --

21

A.

Uh-huh.

22

Q.

-- either drew --

23

A.

Uh-huh.

24

Q.

-- or that you did mock-ups of --

25

A.

Uh-huh.

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Q.

-- at any time prior to 2004 did you have a

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certain vision or expectation as to whether or not

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those designs would be thin in profile or thick in

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profile?

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MS. TAYLOR:

Objection, vague and compound.

6

A.

So --

7

Q.

(By Mr. Zeller)

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You can go ahead and

answer.

9

A.

Thin.

10

Q.

Was there -- was there a practical reason

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for that?

12

A.

Convenience to -- for holding.

13

Q.

When you say convenience for holding, what

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do you mean by that?

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16
17

A.

Making it easy to hold, comfortable to

Q.

In the course of your work, have you done

hold.

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any research on the thickness of the form factor for

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tablets?

20

A.

In our laboratory, Knight-Ridder

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Information Design Lab in the 1990s we created

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different size thicknesses of devices.

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complete prototypes, but just plastic blocks of

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different thicknesses and then created the prototypes

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that we have by adding different weights to see what

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people felt comfortable with.

2

Q.

And did that research indicate to you that

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there was a certain thickness of the tablet form

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factor that bore on the comfort of the users?

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6

A.

below a half-inch in thickness.

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8

We found that the preference was anything

Q.

And when you say preference, why was it

according to the research --

9

A.

Uh-huh.

10

Q.

-- as you --

11

A.

Uh-huh.

12

Q.

-- understood it and the research that you

14

A.

Uh-huh.

15

Q.

-- why was it that the respondents

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did --

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preferred a form factor that was half-inch or less in

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profile?

18

A.

By holding objects at different thickness,

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they would tell us, you know, what felt the most

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comfortable for them.

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scientific analysis, but by the responses we received

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from people we brought in for focus groups it was

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apparent that thinner was better.

Certainly not a totally

24

Q.

And why was it better?

25

A.

Just felt more comfortable to them.

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2

Q.

And you said that the basis for your --

your testimony on this --

3

A.

Uh-huh.

4

Q.

-- includes focus groups?

5

A.

Yes.

6
7
8

We brought in people to give us their

opinion.
Q.

Was there other kind of research that you

did or are you basing it on -- on the focus groups?

9

A.

Only on focus groups.

10

Q.

So returning then to Exhibit 266, the

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second page that's entitled 1981.

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A.

Uh-huh.

13

Q.

Did the drawing --

14

A.

Uh-huh.

15

Q.

-- that -- that you created of this -- this

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1981 tablet --

17

A.

Uh-huh.

18

Q.

-- and that you created back in 1981 show

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20

an overall rectangular shape?
A.

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22
23

Yes.
MS. TAYLOR:

Wait.

Mischaracterizes his

testimony and it's vague.
Q.

(By Mr. Zeller)

And does the drawing that

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you did of the 1981 tablet back in 1981 show four

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evenly rounded corners?

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A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Does the drawing that you created in 1981

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that's depicted here on the second page of Exhibit 266

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show a flat, clear surface covering the front of the

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device?

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7

MS. TAYLOR:

A.

It could be assumed from the -- from the

drawing that it has a clear surface.

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11

The document

speaks for itself.

8
9

Objection.

Q.

(By Mr. Zeller)

And the device itself

setting aside the text --

12

A.

Uh-huh.

13

Q.

-- is substantially without ornamentation?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Does the 1981 drawing that you did of a

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tablet show a thin rim surrounding the front surface?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

If we could actually then look at your 1981

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three-dimensional mock-up.

20

A.

Uh-huh.

It actually came after 1981,

22

Q.

Right.

What we're calling the 1981 --

23

A.

Uh-huh.

24

Q.

-- three-dimensional mock-up.

25

A.

Uh-huh.

21

but --

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Q.

And to be clear, the -- what you have in

2

front of you, the physical three-dimensional

3

mock-up --

4

A.

Uh-huh.

5

Q.

-- the white one that's sometimes referred

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to is an exact copy of a mock-up that was in fact

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created in 1981?

8

A.

That's correct.

9

Q.

Now, does that 1981 mock-up show a

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substantially flat back panel?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

Does it show a thin form factor?

13

A.

Yes.

14

MS. TAYLOR:

Are you asking about the one

15

in front of him or the 1981 one?

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sure.

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MR. ZELLER:

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THE WITNESS:

19

MR. ZELLER:

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I just want to be

I'm asking about the 1981 one.
Uh-huh.
Which is identical to the one

he has in front of him as was just established.

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MS. TAYLOR:

Although you asked him in the

22

present tense and he says he doesn't have it anymore,

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so that's a little confusing.

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exists.

25

Q.

(By Mr. Zeller)

The 1981 one no longer

I'll rephrase it.

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the case that, and tell me if it is, that in 1981 --

2

A.

Uh-huh.

3

Q.

-- when you created the three-dimensional

4

mock-up --

5

A.

Uh-huh.

6

Q.

-- of a tablet --

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

-- that you envisioned, that it had a

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substantially flat back?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Did it have a thin form factor?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And also, if you could hold up the -- the

14

three-dimensional mock-up, this so-called white tablet

15

or 1981 tablet --

16

A.

Uh-huh.

17

Q.

-- and you testified earlier about there

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being buttons on it.

Do you recall that?

19

A.

That there are no buttons.

20

Q.

Well, even earlier in the day --

21

A.

Uh-huh.

22

Q.

-- you were asked questions about the

23

buttons that appear here?

24

A.

Oh, yes, okay.

25

Q.

And those, to be clear, are -- are shown

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here as touchscreen buttons, not physical buttons?
A.

Yes.

They're touchscreen buttons, soft

buttons.

4

Q.

There's no physical buttons --

5

A.

No physical buttons.

6

Q.

-- on the 1981 mock-up?

7

A.

Correct.

8

Q.

And it was always the case --

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

-- that there was no physical buttons?

11

And

can you please turn to Exhibit 266?

12

A.

The article?

13

Q.

It's the presentation.

14

A.

Uh-huh.

15

Q.

Exhibit 266.

16

A.

Uh-huh.

17

Q.

And then if you can turn to the page that

18

is headed up 1988 --

19

A.

Uh-huh.

Yes.

20

Q.

-- which is the fourth page on the

21

document.

22

these are also drawings?

I think you testified earlier, these are --

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

And what's depicted here are -- on the

25

right-hand side are drawings that you did in or about

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1988?

2

A.

Correct.

3

Q.

And did -- are they the same drawings that

4

you did back in 1981 that's depicted here on the

5

second page of Exhibit 266 or are those different

6

drawings?

7

A.

No, these are new drawings.

8

Q.

Including of the tablet form factor?

9

MS. TAYLOR:

10

A.

Mischaracterizes.

These drawings do not include the tablet.

11

These are just the pages that were put into the

12

tablet.

13

Q.

(By Mr. Zeller)

You'll see here that there

14

appears to be some kind of border around them.

15

that depicting?

16

A.

That's just the -- the border of the paper.

17

Q.

So this is not actually showing a tablet?

18

A.

It is not.

19

Q.

Actually, let's talk about the article that

20

What's

you did first.

21

A.

Which article?

22

Q.

I will give you an exhibit number in a

23

second.

So if you can please turn to Exhibit 248,

24

which is the "Portrait vs. Landscape:

25

users' preferences for screen orientation"?

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