Campbell et al v. Facebook Inc.

Filing 182

EXHIBITS re 181 Administrative Motion to Seal Documents Accompanying Class Certification Briefs and Evidentiary Objections filed by Facebook Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 11 (Unredacted), # 2 Exhibit 12 (Redacted), # 3 Exhibit 13 (Unredacted), # 4 Exhibit 14 (Redacted), # 5 Exhibit 15 (Unredacted), # 6 Exhibit 16 (Redacted), # 7 Exhibit 17 (Unredacted), # 8 Exhibit 18 (Redacted), # 9 Exhibit 19 (Unredacted), # 10 Exhibit 20 (Redacted), # 11 Exhibit 21 (Unredacted), # 12 Exhibit 22 (Redacted), # 13 Exhibit 23 (Unredacted), # 14 Exhibit 24 (Redacted), # 15 Exhibit 25 (Unredacted), # 16 Exhibit 26 (Redacted), # 17 Exhibit 27 (Unredacted), # 18 Exhibit 28 (Redacted))(Related document(s) 181 ) (Chorba, Christopher) (Filed on 3/28/2016) Modified on 3/29/2016 (kcS, COURT STAFF).

CONFIDENTIAL

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE

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NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

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MATTHEW CAMPBELL, MICHAEL

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HURLEY and DAVID SHADPOUR,

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Plaintiffs,

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VS.

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FACEBOOK, INC.,

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Case Number
C 13-05996 PJH

Defendant.

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CONFIDENTIAL

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DEPOSITION OF

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TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT

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ON AUGUST 11, 2015, BEGINNING AT 9:00 A.M.

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IN LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS

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Reported by:

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Cheryl D. Glenn, CSR, RPR

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A. Well, there's -- there's the networking in

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that, in career seeking and building expertise if you

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write or do any kind of scholarly activities, you can

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share it and get it out to the masses.

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-- as a practical matter in litigation, client

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information.

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relevant in actual discovery and finding out

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information about other people involved in -- in

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litigation, whether it's clients or judges or what

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And also as a

I mean, it's -- it's increasingly

have you.
Q. So, is it fair to say that Facebook can be

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beneficial to lawyers by increasing a lawyer's

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exposure to the general public?

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A. Yes, that would be a great way to state it.

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Q. Do you have an opinion about Facebook?

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MR. SLADE:

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THE WITNESS:

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19
20

Objection.

Object to form.

I use it, I see benefits in

using it both personal and professional.
Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

What are the personal

benefits you see?

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A. Keeping up with family that you don't have

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time to speak to on the phone, letting people come

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see all the pictures of your food and babies and

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whatnot if they want to.

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don't have to.

And if they don't, they

So, it's -- it's a way to keep in
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touch with a variety of circles in your -- in your

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life.

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Q. And how about the professional benefits?

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A. In a lot of the same ways, it allows you to

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bring multiple networks of people in your life,

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professionally speaking, together and to share

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information and kind of promote your own scholarship

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activities, opinions, commentaries to people that

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would find them relevant or helpful.

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11

Q. Do you think Facebook is a helpful
advertising tool?

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A. Yes, absolutely.

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Q. Do you consider Facebook's advertising a part

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of its service?

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A. Yes.

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Q. Can you briefly give me an overview of your

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previous jobs?
A. Professionally post-degrees, I've been at the

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Bowen School of Law in some capacity since 2005 and

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as -- as an employee.

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of a smattering of jobs, but this job in particular

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I've kind of went from a part-time student and staff

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member on up to professional level and -- and my --

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my current role as a faculty member.

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So, up until then it was kind

Q. And before you worked at the Bowen School of
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A. Blogs are content that you want to push out

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to, you know, numbers of people, and Facebook has

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just made the -- the platform a way that anybody can

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do it and they can share a variety of content.

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6
7

Q. What's your understanding of what service
Facebook provides to its users?
A. Things I've alluded to here, you know, at

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different times, professional networking, marketing,

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building business brand and getting content out but

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also personal use and keeping together diverse groups

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of people in your life, family, friends, personal

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networking, personal sharing of ideas, thoughts,

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personal experiences.

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15

Q. What's your understanding of Facebook's
business?

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MR. SLADE:

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Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

I mean, I know the CEO.

I've

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watched The Social Network, so I guess I'm -- as far

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as that is true, a true depiction, I know a little

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bit of how that started.

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it's the biggest among the social media outfits.

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Beyond that, nothing.

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

I know it's huge.

I know

What's your understanding of

how Facebook makes money?
A. Advertising generally.

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correct?

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A. Yeah.

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Q. You haven't read any other articles about the

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Yes.

technical aspects of Facebook social plug-ins?
A. Again, nothing that I recall specifically

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about that, but perhaps a little bit incidental to a

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larger story about Facebook use or -- or general

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privacy concerns on the internet for the, you know,

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society at large.

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11

Q. But you're well read in general about
Facebook?

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MR. SLADE:

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Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

I wouldn't say it that way.

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I would say I'm versed in social media use and -- and

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function but, no, I wouldn't say I'm knowledgeable

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about Facebook specifically because I know there are

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people with way more knowledge than me.

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you understand how the

Facebook like social plug-in works?

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MR. SLADE:

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Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

Only in that I know how to

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add it to a blog, I know the benefits of using it,

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but that's the extent.

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

And, again, the benefits are

related to increased exposure?
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A. Yes.

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Q. And you haven't viewed any Facebook guidance

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regarding Facebook like social plug-ins?

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A. Huh-uh.

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Q. What's your understanding of how the Facebook

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messages feature works?

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MR. SLADE:

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THE WITNESS:

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Object to form.
They -- they're akin to

e-mail in that they're a direct one-to-one

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communicate -- well, I guess they can be a group

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feature.

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one-to-one direct messages akin to e-mail.

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I don't use that one.

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

But typically a

How did you come to that

understanding?

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A. Just through my own use over time.

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Q. Do you recall reviewing any documents about

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Facebook message functionality?
A. I never read any in any detail.

I may have

had to agree to something, but I don't recall that.
Q. And you may have read news articles that talk
about Facebook messages at some point?
A. Only incidental to larger stories or -- or

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maybe the -- when the new version of messenger came

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out, maybe there was a blurb on that and I -- I read

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it, but nothing -- nothing specific, in detail.
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Q. Besides -- strike that.
Besides reading part of the complaint --

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A. Uh-huh.

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Q. -- when you first received the Subpoena?

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A. Yes.

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Q. Have you investigated the veracity of

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Plaintiffs' claims at all?
A. I didn't.

And I alluded to earlier, having

counsel and discussing it more precluded me from

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feeling the need to do a bunch of further sweeping.

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Q. And you continued to use Facebook after you

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learned about the suit?

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A. Yes.

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Q. And you continued to send Facebook messages

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after learning about the suit?
A. Possibly with URLs, but I'm not -- I don't
recall specifically, but my behavior did not change.

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Q. And why did your behavior not change?

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A. I saw no reason for it to, I guess.

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Q. Why did you see no reason for it to change?

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A. I -- I guess, based on prior use, my new

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understanding of the general nature of the litigation

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didn't force me into thinking I needed to change

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behavior based on the way I've always used it.

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Q. Do you know whether Facebook has stopped the
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conduct the Plaintiffs are challenging?

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MR. SLADE:

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calls for speculation.

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Objection to the extent it

THE WITNESS:

I don't.

I don't know the --

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the full extent.

I've alluded to I'm not aware of

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the full extent, so no.

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

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A. I do not know.

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Q. If Facebook hasn't stopped the conduct that

You don't know?

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Plaintiffs are challenging, would that affect whether

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you use Facebook or not?

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MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

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extent it calls for speculation.

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THE WITNESS:

It wouldn't, it hasn't since

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then.

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I fully know the extent of the claim to be able to

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completely answer that.

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behavior, so that -- that should show something.

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And, again, I would refer to that I don't feel

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

But it hasn't changed my

Do you understand that when

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you send a Facebook message, Facebook has electronic

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processes in place to process the message?

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MR. SLADE:

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THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
I don't know how the

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underpinnings work other than assume there's some

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kind of underpinning.
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story when I link something if that's what you're --

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yes.

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Q. It is.

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A. Yes.

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(Whereupon,

Deposition

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Exhibit 8 was marked for identification and made part

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of the record.)

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

the reporter

has handed you a document we've marked as Exhibit 8.

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I'll represent to you that this is not a document

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that has been produced in this case.

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generated what I just referenced is a URL preview,

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and this is a screen shot of a URL preview.

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15

My team and

Does this preview functionality look familiar to
you?

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A. Yes.

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Q. Do you recall seeing any URL previews when

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you have sent a Facebook message?
A. Yeah.

And I'll say I am aware of these in

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that I try to remove them, the -- the actual URL when

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I'm sharing something on my wall because the story is

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there, it can be linked to, it's -- it's unnecessary

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information.

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Q. So, you --

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A. I am aware of it because I have a fairly
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standard practice of taking that off when I'm sharing

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a link on my wall -- or timeline I mean.

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Q. So, you have a standard practice for removing

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the URL preview when you post a story on your

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Facebook timeline?

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A. If -- yeah, when I'm sharing a news story or

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a link on my timeline, if I see -- which I don't

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always see one nice like that.

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preview, it looks good, I remove the URL itself,

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12

But if I see a

because it's -- it's just repetitive information.
Q. Do you have a standard practice of removing
the URL preview when you send a Facebook message?

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A. I don't know that I apply that same -- I

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don't know that it matches up with -- I'm aware of it

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in the public sharing because of the way it looks to

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others.

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18
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Q. Do you specifically recall sending a message
and leaving a URL preview intact?
A. Yeah.

And I know I've done that on -- on

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several direct messages over time.

It's less of an

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issue.

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if I've noticed it, but it's -- it's something I do

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generally when sharing, and I realized, you know,

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it's different with a -- well, in direct messages

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it's not as big a deal because I'm not sharing it on

But I assume I've probably taken it off, too,

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my timeline.
Q. And you specifically recall removing a URL
preview when you sent a message?
A. I assume I probably have since I do that, you

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know, on my public timeline, I guess, anyway, but I

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know that I've sent several that I didn't do that

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because I -- you know, I wasn't worried with the way

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it looked.

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10

Q. Do you understand that Facebook has copies of
messages sent through Facebook on its servers?

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MR. SLADE:

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Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

I'm aware of my messages

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privy to this case, so, yes, you know, to that

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extent.

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you think it's helpful

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for you to have copies of your messages accessible to

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you when and if you need them?

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MR. SLADE:

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THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
I could see benefit, but it's

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not a -- a huge priority and honestly I guess people

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have different uses for archived messages.

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23

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Did you ever go back and

access your Facebook messages?

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A. Very rarely do I re-read old communications.

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Q. You have?
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A. Very rarely.

I have, I'm sure, at some

point, but very rarely do I backtrack.
Q. Are you aware that Facebook's developer page

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disclosed that the number of likes on a third-party

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page is derived in part from the number of Facebook

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messages containing a URL to that page?

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MR. SLADE:

8

THE WITNESS:

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Object to form.
I had no idea.

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you personally object to

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Facebook processing messages in order to increase the

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like count on a third-party website?

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MR. SLADE:

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Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

I don't have an opinion about

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it, and, honestly, to form one, I would want more

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information about it.

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enough to say.

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I don't feel I'm knowledgeable

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

If you knew that the like

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count on the third-party website was an aggregate and

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anonymous count, would you object to Facebook

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processing a message in order to increment that

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aggregate and anonymous like count?

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MR. SLADE:

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THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
I -- I can't say because I

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don't know the extent of the practices what pros and

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cons, you know, are -- are a part of each of the
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interests and things to some extent of what your

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other public profile would be, but they're totally

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different.

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putting yourself out there, to marketers, you know,

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businesses.

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there's certain expectations; you want retail

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merchandise.

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than calling the Wal-Mart and asking for something

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specific.

You're sharing one with everyone, you're

When you -- when you go into Wal-Mart,

I mean, it's -- it's a different animal

So, I -- I would just assume that the

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practices of -- would be different to represent the

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differences in the -- the user's expectations, I

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guess.

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14
15
16
17

Q. Do you personally object to Facebook
processing messages for any purpose?
MR. SLADE:

Object to form, and object to

the extent it's been asked and answered.
THE WITNESS:

Do I personally object to

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Facebook -- describe what you're asking.

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Processing --

20

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

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message for any reason?

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MR. SLADE:

23

THE WITNESS:

For Facebook to process that

Same objections.
Nothing -- my objections lie

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in the descriptions I've said before as far as user

25

expectations being projective in curbing illegality
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to some extent or the extent practical, only in -- I

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guess in those ways.

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expectation, though, should -- Facebook should take

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that into account.

5

The -- the realm of

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Okay.

So, do you think that

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Facebook should be able to process messages in order

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to deliver the message to an intended recipient?

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9

MR. SLADE:

Object to form and to the

extent it's been asked and answered.

10

THE WITNESS:

I guess process, I don't know

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if that means grabbing and passing along or keeping

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and reviewing or categorizing, organizing.

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know what process means in this -- in this context.

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

I don't

If Facebook has a series of

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steps that it takes electronically to deliver a

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message to an intended recipient, do you object to

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that?

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MR. SLADE:

19

THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
Beyond it being delivered as

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written to the intended target, if public -- if the

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way you treat this information, the timeline, is the

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same as you treat the -- the information not meant to

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be shared with anyone but one person, I -- I would

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have strong reservations in not differentiating the

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two.
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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

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A. The extent of my objections would be based on

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4

Okay.

knowing the policy completely.
Q. So, you say "beyond it being delivered as

5

written to the intended target".

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object to Facebook having a series of electronic

7

steps in order to deliver the message to the intended

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recipient?

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MR. SLADE:

So, you don't

Objection, mischaracterizes

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prior testimony, object to form, and object to the

11

extent it's been asked and answered.

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THE WITNESS:

13

delivery.

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entails.

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I -- I don't object with the

You say steps?

I don't know what that

don't know.

So, if step 2 is some -- you know, I -- I

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Okay.

17

A. If it takes three steps to do the one action

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I've described, then I guess in theory that could be

19

fine, but I don't know enough about the process to

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say --

21

Q. Okay.

22

A. -- one way or the other.

23

Q. So, do you personally object to Facebook

24

processing messages to -- to filter messages into

25

folders?
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MR. SLADE:
asked and answered.

3
4

Object to form, objection,

THE WITNESS:

I object to -- to processing

that goes beyond basic delivery functions.

5

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

6

A. On -- on private messages versus, you know,

7

public shares, I suppose.

8
9

Okay.

Q. So, that would include Facebook processing
messages in order to store them?

10

MR. SLADE:

11

Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

It's -- it's -- yes --

12

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Okay.

13

A. -- I would object to that.

Again, not

14

knowing what processing means or storing, I don't

15

completely know what that encompasses, whether it's

16

placing it there to never be seen again or to be

17

acted upon in some way.

18

opinion.

19

That would change my

Q. So, if Facebook were processing messages in

20

order to block malware, you would still object to

21

that?

22
23
24
25

MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

extent it's been asked and answered.
THE WITNESS:

User expectations should be

considered in any of those decisions.
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described, it was probably half and half that were or

2

were not, I would say 10 percent of the overall

3

probably based on that estimate.

4
5
6

Q. Do you recall the first time you saw a URL
preview in a Facebook message?
A. I don't recall or have any idea what the

7

actual date was.

I do remember vaguely it being

8

something that wasn't originally part of direct

9

messaging that later became part of it.

I -- I was

10

aware of it on my timeline and using it there before

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I ever thought to use it in that -- in that way.

12

it may have just been a -- a product of the time of

13

the rollout.

14

And

Q. We might have covered this, too, but do you

15

recall how many times you saw a URL preview in a

16

Facebook message?

17
18

A. Just on messages I've shared or links I've
shared or just --

19

Q. How about the messages you've shared?

20

A. I'd say -- I mean, that's hard to put a

21

number on.

22

shared, I would say a strong 75 to 90 percent of them

23

utilized the preview feature and delete the actual

24

written URL in the way I described earlier.

25

If I've -- of all the URLs or links I've

Q. Do you know if there's a way to go back and
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check to see if there was a URL preview generated for

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a particular message?

3

A. Not specifically.

I -- if -- if someone

4

tasked me with that, I would just kind of

5

chronologically scroll down to find examples of it.

6

I assume it remained in the same form that you posted

7

it as, is my assumption.

8
9
10
11

Q. And you testified earlier that you've seen
URL previews in a message and have deleted that
preview before sending the message.

Is that correct?

A. I think I might have misspoke.

I deleted the

12

URL link, the actual HTTP address.

13

the preview.

14

address when I'm sending that, because I know

15

clicking on the little, you know, aesthetically

16

pleasing button gets you to the same place and it

17

looks uncluttered.

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19

I didn't delete

I want the preview, not the actual web

Q. Understood.
So, when you deleted the URL --

20

A. Uh-huh.

21

Q. -- the actual preview which includes the

22

image was intact?

23

A. Yes.

24

Q. Is that correct?

25

A. That would have been my intention if I were
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deleting it, was to delete it and take out the extra

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information.

3
4
5

Q. And you have done that before; you've left
the URL preview intact before?
A. It's a standard practice on my timeline that

6

I mostly have incorporated on direct messages, too,

7

but to a far lesser extent.

8

Q. Do you know if there's a way to know for sure

9

whether you saw a URL preview in a message before you

10
11
12

sent it?
A. I -- when I share my timeline, I can say that
I always wait and expect it.

13

Q. Uh-huh.

14

A. But I'm aware -- because of some of the --

15

like if I write an article that's in PDF, that there

16

-- it doesn't provide that preview.

17

my timeline shares that there are differences.

18

the extent of the differences I don't know.

19

specifically PDFs won't generate the same thing

20

because I've tried that.

21

not share it at all or I'll -- you know, I'll do it

22

differently, but I'm aware that -- of the...

23

So, I do know on
Now,

I know

And in that case I might

Q. And, besides PDFs, do you recall any other

24

types of documents that will not generate a URL

25

preview?
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A. I know I've run into some over time, but I'm

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not aware of a particular type that never does or

3

something.

4

Q. So, in the instances where you saw a URL

5

preview in a message, what was your understanding of

6

how that was generated?

7

A. I would, you know, make the comparison to the

8

WordPress blogging, in that if I enter this series of

9

characters in this way, it'll generate a digital

10

product based on that.

11

process is -- is somewhat at play here.

12

I assume that same basic

Q. So, when you saw a URL preview in a message,

13

you assumed that there was some basic process at play

14

to generate it?

15

A. Some sort of automated type digital aspect

16

that I wasn't necessarily manipulating but that had

17

been structured in a way that would make it easy for

18

a user to do what I wanted to do.

19
20

Q. Do you consider that process of automatically
generating the URL preview to be scanning?

21

MR. SLADE:

22

Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

I really don't know.

That's

23

-- that's where my knowledge probably ends, is how

24

that happens.

25

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

And generating the URL
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preview occurs before you send the message.

2

MR. SLADE:

3

THE WITNESS:

Correct?

Object to form.
Yeah.

Because I'll wait

4

until I see it, make sure it's what I want, and then

5

delete, then send.

6

third or fourth step of the process, I guess.

7

So, the send would be like the

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

I believe you testified

8

earlier that you've used several different browsers

9

to access Facebook?

10

A. (Nods head).

11

Q. Is that right?

12

A. Uh-huh.

13

Q. And those browsers include Internet Explorer,

14

Yes.

Mozilla and Chrome --

15

A. Yes.

16

Q. -- am I correct?

17

A. Yes.

18

Q. Any others?

19

A. I guess the Safari iPhone app maybe, you

20

know, very infrequently if somehow I'm redirected to

21

a Facebook page off of something else, but usually

22

I'm in Facebook on my phone.

23

Chrome would probably make up 85, 95 percent of

24

Facebook use because the other two browsers are

25

work-specific for certain -- certain functions, so...

And I'll say the Google

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2

Q. Do you know if those different browsers had
JavaScript enabled?

3

A. I couldn't tell you one way or the other.

4

Q. Would you know how to check?

5

A. I could probably find out, but the answer is

6
7

no.
Q. Would you able to check to see if JavaScript

8

were enabled on all of the browsers you've used since

9

you signed up for Facebook?

10
11
12

MR. SLADE:

Objection, calls for

speculation.
THE WITNESS:

Yeah.

I'm -- I'm -- I'm not

13

familiar enough with JavaScript to really understand

14

what it is, how to search for it, how to know it's

15

there short of going specifically to look for it if I

16

were given a reason.

17

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

How many of the websites at

18

the URLs contained in your messages contained like

19

button social plug-ins?

20

MR. SLADE:

21

THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
My guess is the type of

22

information I share are -- are kind of, you know, a

23

lot of political news.

24

to be big commercial sites that almost entirely have

25

those type of features as part of it.

So, those type of sites seem

We've got CNN
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as the other example, but that would be a common link

2

for me.

3

commercial site that I'm sharing, so most would have

4

those type of...

5
6

Usually it's a -- a fairly well-known

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

like button social plug-in?

7

MR. SLADE:

8

THE WITNESS:

9

Would some not have had a

Object to form.
Perhaps some of the ones I

referred to that don't generate the preview.

I'm

10

thinking I can -- like I'm involved with American

11

Association of Law Libraries, things from their

12

website tend to not be able to be replicated, so that

13

could be one example of one of the ones I would know

14

that's probably not that I might share, you know,

15

somewhat frequently.

16

well-known and well-frequented websites that -- that

17

do have those functions.

18

But generally it's pretty

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you have an estimate of

19

the number of websites that have a like button social

20

plug-in versus those that did not have a like button

21

social plug-in?

22

A. That I've shared, at least three out of four

23

would have been from a commercial site with a button,

24

probably more.

25

Q. Do you know whether your sharing of a URL in
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sharing.

2

the sharing.

3

out loud here, it's -- some way there's a connection

4

in that it -- it generates a box asking you to share,

5

but I know out of practice that I cannot share it and

6

still have a like.

7

way around, too, that one doesn't necessarily trigger

8

the other even though they're interrelated.

9

You know, liking is a separate action than
I guess the way it's set up, thinking

So, I assume it works the other

Q. After you shared a URL in a Facebook message,

10

have you ever gone back to the website associated

11

with that URL and seen the like count go up based on

12

your sharing of that URL in a Facebook message?

13

MR. SLADE:

Object to form.

14

THE WITNESS:

Only if I actually went

15

through with that last step I described in the

16

previous answer and shared it.

17

then shared, two actions, and knew that the like

18

count was affected.

19

just shared a URL and had the like count affected or

20

-- or hit like and expected it to -- to also post a

21

status update to my timeline.

22

that way, but I could be wrong.

23

So, I've liked and

I've never, to my knowledge,

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

I don't think it works

You've never shared a URL in

24

a Facebook message and gone to the website associated

25

with that URL and seen your name associated with a
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like count on that website?

2

MR. SLADE:

Object to form.

3

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

4

A. No.

5

Q. -- URL in a Facebook message?

6

A. The only way I've seen that or would look for

7
8
9

If you only shared that --

that is if I had purposely liked it.
Q. Do you object to a like count on a
third-party website that's a anonymized and

10

aggregated meaning it only displays the number of

11

people who liked the page as opposed to the specific

12

names of individuals who liked the page?

13

MR. SLADE:

14

THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
On its face without any

15

question about the way that it's gathered, I don't

16

have necessarily a strong opinion either way, but I

17

-- I don't necessarily disagree with the practice.

18

do see benefit in knowing who liked it as -- as far

19

as the overall theme of sharing information with

20

people and, you know, shared -- people and -- and

21

businesses that you have a mutual interest with.

22

That's the -- the reason for that, I would think, to

23

identify people.

24

feelings about being anonymous besides the way it's

25

gathered.

But I don't have any negative

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Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

To summarize, you don't know

2

whether your sharing of a particular URL in a

3

Facebook message incremented the like count on a

4

third-party website.

5
6
7

Is that right?

A. That's -- I don't know, and my understanding
is they're two separate actions, so...
(Whereupon,

Deposition

8

Exhibit 9 was marked for identification and made part

9

of the record.)

10

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

the reporter

11

has handed you a document marked as Exhibit 9.

12

will represent to you that this document is Plaintiff

13

Matthew Campbell's Corrected Objections and Responses

14

to Defendant Facebook, Inc.'s, First Set of

15

Interrogatories in this case.

16

I

Do you recognize this document?

17

A. First time I've ever seen it.

18

Q. Please turn to Exhibit 1 of this exhibit

19

which is right after page 15.

20

using this for a little while so you'll just want to

21

keep this handy.

22

(Whereupon,

And we're going to be

Deposition

23

Exhibit 10 was marked for identification and made part

24

of the record.)

25

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

the reporter
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A. I don't know for sure.

I assume it does.

2

The fact it's in 2014, this group has been around, I

3

-- my assumption is that it does, but I really do not

4

know.

5

(Whereupon,

Deposition

6

Exhibit 11 was marked for identification and made part

7

of the record.)

8

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

I'll

9

represent to you that this is a printout of the

10

website associated with the URL you sent in the

11

message we're discussing.

12

printout?

13
14

Do you recognize this

A. The details of the story, you know, I'm -I'm a little foggy on them.

15
16
17
18

Q. And you see that this web page does have a
like button social plug-in.

Correct?

19

A. Yes, there at the top.

20

Q. Do you know if this like count increased on

21

this website after you sent your Facebook message to

22

Mr. Campbell?

23

MR. SLADE:

24

THE WITNESS:

25

Object to form.
Based on my previous answers,

my understanding is that the share -- whether it be
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on a timeline or in a direct message, the shared link

2

is an independent action of a pressed like button.

3

So, I may have liked it and shared it as two actions.

4

I very well may have shared it without liking it.

5

don't, however, think that the sharing triggered the

6

like if -- if it did.

7

been unbeknownst to me because that's not how I

8

understand that -- that to take place.

9
10

I

And if it did, that would have

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Understood.

So, to see if I understand your position

11

correctly, your understanding is that if you shared a

12

URL in a message, that the like count on a

13

third-party website would not go up --

14

A. Correct.

15

Q. -- based solely on the sharing of that URL in

16

a Facebook message?

17

A. Correct.

18

Q. Okay.

Do you know how you can check to see

19

if the like button on a third-party website went up

20

based on your sharing of a URL to that website in a

21

message?

22

MR. SLADE:

23

THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
If I had only shared it, not

24

liked it, I wouldn't be interested in finding out.

25

But the way I would have -- would go about it if
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asked were -- would be just to go back to original

2

page, look at the like button to see if users are

3

identified and see if I'm one of them.

4
5

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you see users identified

on this web page by the like button count?

6

A. No.

7

Q. Okay.

8

You can set that aside.

Going back to the chart, if you could take a look

9

at item number 329.

Do you see that?

10

A. Yes, ma'am.

11

Q. And can you refer in Campbell000052 to the

12

fourth full message down that correlates to that

13

item?

14

A. Yes.

15

Q. Do you see that?

16

A. Yes, I do.

17

Q. Now, this appears to be a message from you to

18

Matt Campbell on January 18th, 2014 at 9:08 p.m. CST.

19

Do you see that?

20

A. Yes.

21

Q. And there is a URL in that chart as well?

22

A. Yes.

23

Q. And do you see that same URL reflected in

24
25

Exhibit 10?
A. I do.
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2

Q. And you don't recall if you had JavaScript
enabled at that time?

3

A. No, I'm not aware.

4

Q. Now, for this site, do you recall if it --

5
6

strike that.
Do you know if this website had a Facebook like

7

button social plug-in?

8

A. I do not know.

9

And, yeah, it's -- I don't

know and I'll say that it appears to be a little

10

different than the way I was describing sites earlier

11

in that I -- it doesn't appear to be a big commercial

12

site or heavily frequented site.

13

something pretty targeted and specific.

14

(Whereupon,

It appears to be

Deposition

15

Exhibit 12 was marked for identification and made part

16

of the record.)

17

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

I'll

18

represent to you that Exhibit 12 is a printout of the

19

document available at the URL in message 329.

20

A. Okay.

21

Q. Do you see a like button social plug-in on

22

this document?

23

A. No.

24

Q. And when you refer back to the actual URL in

25

the message, you will see that the URL ends with a
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THE WITNESS:

I believe he probably didn't

2

consider it at the time and probably assumed, you

3

know, any -- any concerns were a part of the general

4

policy agreement he originally signed.

5

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

So, you don't know what

6

Mr. Campbell knew about Facebook's practices with

7

respect to possibly processing this message?

8
9

A. I can't tell you what he knew or didn't know
at the time.

I can refer back to the fact that his

10

subsequent behavior and previous doesn't seem to

11

change a lot, so, if there was a concern, it didn't

12

seem to affect the way he engaged others on here.

13

Q. Do you know if you saw a URL preview

14
15

associated with this particular message?
A. This is one that I -- I couldn't tell you.

16

You know, I had the PDF example to -- to lean on in

17

differentiating.

18

would have been generated or not.

19

Facebook photo, so I'm -- I'm not aware.

20

This one I'm not sure if a preview
It appears to be a

Q. Because you don't know if you saw a URL

21

preview, you wouldn't know if you had closed it or

22

left it intact before sending it.

23

Is that correct?

A. Based on the printouts here, I can't tell the

24

difference.

25

of it.

And my -- I don't have any recollection

And generally I don't know if these type of
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Q. And if the terms disclosed that Facebook was

2

processing messages, would you agree that you did

3

consent?

4

MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

5

extent it calls for speculation, object to the extent

6

it's been asked and answered, and object to the

7

extent it calls for a legal conclusion.

8
9
10

THE WITNESS:

Will you repeat the question?

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Sure.

And if Facebook's terms did disclose that Facebook

11

was processing messages, would you agree that you

12

consented to Facebook processing the message?

13

MR. SLADE:

14

Same objections.

THE WITNESS:

Under the context of my

15

signing or by clicking "agree", I am held by all of

16

the provisions laid -- laid there out.

17

understanding and fine reading of them, you know, is

18

beside the point to that extent.

19
20
21

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

My

Understood.

Now, do you know if Mr. Campbell consented to
Facebook processing the message?

22

MR. SLADE:

23

THE WITNESS:

Object to form.
I think the same as the

24

answers before and the ones immediately prior in that

25

he didn't consider it at the time, but he did agree
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to a general overall policy that may have contained

2

language pertaining to that specific point.

3

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Same question for

4

Mr. Campbell.

5

Facebook was processing messages at the time, do you

6

believe Mr. Campbell would have consented to Facebook

7

processing this message?

8
9

If Facebook's terms disclosed that

MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

extent it's been asked and answered, object to the

10

extent it calls for a legal conclusion, object to the

11

extent it calls for speculation.

12

THE WITNESS:

Trying to surmise what he

13

would have done if given that information, that's

14

beyond what I can do.

15

done given the information, but I can't answer that.

16

I can say what I might have

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you know what

17

understanding Mr. Campbell had at the time about what

18

Facebook was doing with messages?

19

MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

20

extent it calls for speculation.

21

THE WITNESS:

I don't think he was

22

considering where or what was being done with these

23

particular messages, so I -- I guess not.

24

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

25

A. No.

Do you know?

I mean, there was no discussion between
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he and I about the nature of where these messages

2

went or what happened to them beyond our just reading

3

them as they came in.

4
5

Q. Do you know if Mr. Campbell saw a URL preview
before sending this message to you?

6

MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

7

extent it calls for speculation.

8

THE WITNESS:

9

My recollection is that

Mr. Campbell is actually probably less concerned

10

about removing the URL and leaving the preview as I

11

am.

12

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Why is that?

13

A. It's just a quirky thing about me probably

14

more than anything.

15

that his standard practice wasn't like mine in that

16

he always deleted the URL or anything.

17

he did -- really thought about it either way.

18
19
20

I would -- my recollection is

Q. Are you positive for this particular URL
though?
A. No, not --

21

MR. SLADE:

22

THE WITNESS:

23

MR. SLADE:

24
25

I don't think

Object to form.
Sorry.
Sorry.

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

And you don't know what kind

of browser Mr. Campbell was using when he sent this
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somewhat illustrates the fact that whatever

2

reservations aren't precluding the particular action

3

you're asking about.

4

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

And for people you sent

5

messages to, you wouldn't be able to state whether --

6

strike that.

7

You don't know if the people you sent messages to

8

ever visited the Facebook developer page that said

9

that URL attachments and Facebook messages

10
11

incremented the like count on a third-party website?
MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

12

extent it calls for speculation.

13

THE WITNESS:

I'm unaware of any individual

14

user doing that or knowing that, and -- and in saying

15

that, there are a lot of lawyers and pretty educated

16

people in these circles and I would think even

17

amongst that type of population that it's the same as

18

it is in the general population.

19

crusaders that it's an important issue to, but

20

overall I don't think it's considered.

21

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

There may be a few

And you wouldn't be able to

22

say whether those individuals ever saw articles or

23

other press coverage regarding Facebook's processing

24

of messages?

25

MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the
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extent it calls for speculation.

2

THE WITNESS:

3

Not that I'm aware.

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

And without actually going

4

and accessing the URL included in a message you sent

5

to see if it had a like button social plug-in, there

6

wouldn't be any way for you to say for certain

7

whether that website had a like button social

8

plug-in.

9

Is that correct?

A. That's --

10

MR. SLADE:

11

Object to form.

THE WITNESS:

That's correct.

Even the

12

ones like I had mentioned with

13

the fact that it does generally, I mean, to know with

14

absolute certainty for an older story, I would have

15

to manually go and view it.

16

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

And to say for certain

17

whether a URL preview was associated with a

18

particular URL included in a message, you would have

19

to go back and actually access your physical Facebook

20

messages?

21

A. Yes.

22

MR. SLADE:

23

THE WITNESS:

24
25

Object to form.
Yes.

And then -- then view

it as on the -- the Facebook site itself.
Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Okay.

We're done with these
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to what you say you've learned today?

2

MR. SLADE:

3

THE WITNESS:

4
5

Object to form.
I can't speculate.

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you think you're going to

continue to use Facebook?

6

A. Yes.

7

Q. Do you think you're going to continue to use

8
9
10
11
12
13

Facebook messages?
A. Yes, but I have a new curiosity that probably
didn't exist before.
Q. Do you think you've been harmed by Facebook's
conduct challenged in this case?
MR. SLADE:

Object to form, object to the

14

extent it calls for speculation, and object to the

15

extent it calls for a legal conclusion.

16

THE WITNESS:

I'm not aware of a direct

17

negative impact front and center in my life.

18

However, if I knew about practices and -- I didn't

19

know every exchange with Matt Campbell had been made

20

subject to a litigation discovery process until this

21

was brought to my attention, so, you know, all of it

22

will make me think about it a little differently.

23

Maybe I don't want years of archived messages between

24

me and -- and certain people.

25

affect my future behavior.

You know, it may

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2

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you think you've suffered

any monetary harm?

3

MR. SLADE:

Object to the form of the

4

question, object to the extent it calls for

5

speculation, object to the extent it calls for a

6

legal conclusion.

7

THE WITNESS:

I can't quantify it here

8

today, but, you know, if -- if -- I could see how

9

people -- I could have been negatively impacted as

10

far as the practice engaged in towards me and -- and

11

people in my situation.

12

at a deposition, I mean, you could quantify that I

13

guess.

14

concerned about it shows that I haven't felt or

15

wasn't aware of any direct negative impact in my

16

day-to-day dealings.

17

Amendment, communications with local officials and

18

those things are a part of my life and will be in the

19

future, so more awareness and curiosity about these

20

issues could change my behavior because of the type

21

of people I do communicate with.

As far as, you know, hours

But my telling you I hadn't been previously

However, social media, First

22

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

And you said that you intend

23

to continue to use Facebook?

24

A. Yes.

25

Q. Do you think you'll suffer any harm from your
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A. I'm sorry.

2

Q. Do you believe that your Facebook messages

3

have monetary value?

4

MR. SLADE:

Object to the form of the

5

question, object to the extent it calls for

6

speculation, object to the extent it calls for a

7

legal conclusion.

8
9

THE WITNESS:

I'd like to say that some of

my higher-end posts have some, but, you know,

10

generally no, other than they promote -- help me

11

promote my career generally, but, no, not a direct

12

monetary gain.

13

Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

Do you have any information

14

of any kind that Facebook has targeted an ad to you

15

based on something you've put in a message?

16
17

MR. SLADE:

Object to the form, object to

the extent it calls for speculation.

18

THE WITNESS:

I don't spend much time

19

looking at ads.

I can say that over time I've

20

wondered why one was there and -- and -- you know,

21

and other times I see the same one that does kind of

22

fit.

23

the way that even works but I haven't thought about

24

it very much.

25

those particular ads other than just minor annoyance,

So, it's been a very surface-level glance of

I haven't been negatively impacted by

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2

I suppose.
Q. (By Ms. Rogers)

But have you ever seen an ad

3

specifically and believed that Facebook targeted it

4

to you based on something you put in a message?

5

A. I'll have to say I kind of described -- and

6

I'll repeat it again.

And I'll even, you know, bring

7

up G-mail again, in that when I browse the internet,

8

in my mind, that was a very different thing that

9

direct messaging, whether it be Facebook Messenger, a

10

direct message on Twitter, an e-mail.

My

11

understanding of those practices, those weren't the

12

marketing -- the information wasn't -- advertising

13

information wasn't garnered from that; it was

14

garnered from public internet use.

15

different, my understanding of it was, you know,

16

off-base.

17

been under the assumption that's was based solely on

18

public use, whether it was Facebook or Google.

19

Perhaps my Google ads are based on my G-mail use,

20

which I'm sure there's a theme between public

21

information shared and private to some extent.

22

Politics, law, education, I'm interested in that.

23

I'll be interested in direct messages, too, but at no

24

time did I ever think that was based on private

25

messages whether it was Facebook or any of the other

If that's

And by seeing targeted ads, I've always

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platforms.

2

Q. I want to discuss your reading habits a

3

little bit, although we've covered that to some

4

degree already.

5

Do you read any newspapers?

A. I wouldn't say I read any of them A to Z, but

6

I read constant news articles and pieces of

7

newspapers every day.

8

Q. Do you read the Los Angeles times?

9

A. Some.

10

It's a favorite link but not -- maybe

once a week.

11

Q. How about the New York Times?

12

A. More frequently.

13

I'd say three or four times

a week I read at least a story or two.

14

Q. How about the Wall Street Journal?

15

A. That's kind of odd that -- they have web

16

videos, an app I like.

17

Times, LA Times, they have little two-minute video

18

versions of their stories, and that's become a go-to

19

in the last several months.

20

featured on my thing for that.

21

it, I may see a story, then read it, or vice versa,

22

but all three of those publications.

23
24
25

Wall Street Journal, New York

All three of those are
So, if I don't read

Q. Understood.
I'm going to ask you about some other publications
online or otherwise.

Let me know if you read them or
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have ever read them.

2

Have you ever read Business

Insider?

3

A. A few stories but it's not a go-to source.

4

Q. How about Forbes.com?

5

A. I picked up a magazine in the airport and

6

read the whole thing a couple of weeks ago in Philly,

7

the Forbes, an issue, but generally no other than a

8

story link here or there.

9
10

Q. How about Huffington Post?
A. It's not a go-to either.

I tend to shy away

11

from the ultra partisan news these days, and I'll --

12

I'll definitely read or share or repost a really good

13

story or a link that I'm interested in, but it's not

14

a source I seek and then it's shared.

15

Q. I'm sensing a theme.

16

A. A lot of links.

17

Q. How about Huffington Post Tech?

18

A. Even less than the -- the mother ship there

19

on that one.

20

Q. How about CNet?

21

A. Less.

22

Only in links and stuff.

It's not one

of the go-tos either.

23

Q. But you have read it?

24

A. I'm aware of it.

25

Q. And you've read it?
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2
3

A. I've read -- it's online.

of it online at times, but sporadically.
Q. You mentioned you sometimes read the Wall

4

Street Journal.

5

Digits blog.

6
7

I've read stories

How about the Wall Street Journal

Ever read that?

A. I don't -- I've never -- I don't recall that
one right now.

8

Q. How about Mashable?

9

A. I'm aware of it, a link or two over time, but

10

not a source I usually --

11

Q. Wired?

12

A. I've heard of it but not -- not that familiar

13

with it.

14

Q. Tech Radar?

15

A. Not familiar with that one at all.

16

Q. The Next Web?

17

A. No.

18

Q. PC Mag?

19

A. No.

20

Q. Gizmodo?

21

A. No.

22

Q. CNN?

23

A. Frequently.

24

Q. The Guardian?

25

A. Linked stories sporadically.

Usually video.

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Q. Tech Spot?

2

A. No.

3

Q. The Wall?

4

A. Not familiar with that one.

5

Q. Daily Tech?

6

A. No.

7

Q. Stack Overflow?

8

A. Not familiar with that one.

9

Q. Inside Facebook?

10

A. Never heard of that one.

11

Q. Slate?

12

A. Occasional linked stories.

13

Q. CNN Tech?

14

A. I -- I frequent CNN sites a lot, its home

15

site and some of its subsites like CNN Monday, CNN

16

Tech, yeah.

17

Q. Consumerist?

18

A. Very rarely.

19

It's -- we have a print

subscription to that one, so occasionally.

20

Q. Julian Evans Blog?

21

A. No.

22

Q. Social Times?

23

A. No.

24

Q. The Verge?

25

A. No.
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Q. Web Pro News?

2

A. Not familiar.

3

Q. Motherboard?

4

A. No.

5

Q. BBC?

6

A. Occasionally.

7

Q. NPR?

8

A. I frequently listen to -- and -- and -- yeah,

9

and read the -- the online local website.

10

Q. Thank you.

11
12

Well read, just as I thought a librarian should
be.

13

A. How would I post all that stuff?

14

Q. I have no idea.

15
16
17

MS. ROGERS:

Those are all -- actually all

of the questions I have.
Do you have anything?

18

MR. SLADE:

19

MS. ROGERS:

I don't think so.
Okay.

Well, I want to thank

20

you for your time and for sitting for this deposition

21

and, of course, for your professionalism throughout

22

the process.

23

(Record concluded, 3:10 p.m.)

24
25
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CERTIFICATE

2
3

I, Cheryl D. Glenn, Certified Shorthand Reporter,

4

Registered Professional Reporter, certify that the

5

above-named witness was sworn, that the deposition was

6

taken in shorthand and thereafter transcribed; that it

7

is true and correct; and that it was taken on

8

August 11, 2015, in Little Rock, county of Pulaski,

9

state of Arkansas, pursuant to Subpoena and the

10

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and under the

11

stipulations set out, and that I am not an attorney

12

for nor relative of any of said parties or otherwise

13

interested in the event of said action.

14
15
16

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
and official seal this 24th day of August, 2015.

17
18
19
20
21
22

____________________________

23

CHERYL D. GLENN, CSR, RPR

24

Certificate No. 1448

25
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