VOTE FORWARD et al v. DEJOY et al

Filing 16

MOTION for Preliminary Injunction by AMY BOLAN, AARON CARREL, COLORADO ORGANIZATION FOR LATINA OPPORTUNITY AND REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, INDERBIR SINGH DATTA, DANTE FLORES-DEMARCHI, PAUL HUNTER, SEBASTIAN IMMONEN, KATHRYN MONTGOMERY, SEAN MORRISON, PADRES & JOVENES UNIDOS, LINDA ROBERSON, MARTHA THOMPSON, VOCES UNIDAS DE LAS MONTANAS, VOTE FORWARD, GARY YOUNG (Attachments: #1 Memorandum in Support, #2 Exhibit Index, #3 Exhibit USPS OIG Report (Aug. 2020), #4 Exhibit USPS, Postal Operations Manual (Excerpts), #5 Exhibit USPS OIG Report (May 2020), #6 Exhibit USPS, Mandatory Stand-Up Talk: All Employees, #7 Exhibit Leaked USPS Powerpoint, #8 Exhibit DeJoy Testimony - House Oversight Hearing (Aug. 24, 2020), #9 Exhibit DeJoy Testimony - Senate Hearing (Aug. 21, 2020), #10 Exhibit Statement of DeJoy - House Oversight Comm. (Aug. 24, 2020), #11 Declaration Professor Justin Grimmer, #12 Exhibit USPS, Congressional Briefing (Aug. 31, 2020), #13 Exhibit Chart of States Where Voters' Mail-In Ballots Are Impacted By Defendants' Delays, #14 Exhibit USPS Letter to Pa. (July 29, 2020), #15 Declaration Eitran D. Hersh, #16 Exhibit House Oversight Hearing on USPS Operations - Transcript (Aug. 24, 2020), #17 Exhibit Senate HSGAC Hearing on USPS Operations - Transcript (Aug. 21, 2020), #18 Declaration Aaron Carrel, #19 Declaration Martha Thompson, #20 Declaration Kathryn Montgomery, #21 Declaration Sebastian Immonen, #22 Declaration Amy Bolan, #23 Declaration Inderbir Singh Datta, #24 Declaration Scott J. Forman of Vote Forward, #25 Declaration Alex Sanchez of Voces Unidas De Las Montanas, #26 Text of Proposed Order)(Duraiswamy, Shankar)

EXHIBIT 6

Ms. Maloney (00:00:00):
...noise and feedback. Fifth, I will recognize members verbally, but members retain the right to seek
recognition verbally in regular order, members will be recognized in seniority order for questions. Lastly,
if you want to be recognized outside of regular order, you may identify that in several ways, you may
use the chat function to send a request. You may send an email to the majority staff, or you may
unmute your mic to seek recognition. Obviously we do not want people talking over each other, so my
preference is that members use the chat function or email to facilitate formal verbal recognition.
Committee staff will ensure that I am made aware of your request, and I will recognize you. We will
begin the hearing in just a moment, when they tell me they are ready to begin the live stream.
Speaker 1 (00:00:59):
Chair Maloney?
Ms. Maloney (00:01:01):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (00:01:01):
A point of order, you mentioned the mask, you don't have one on.
Ms. Maloney (00:01:07):
Well, I'm talking. If you're talking, you can have your mask off. [crosstalk 00:01:11]
Speaker 1 (00:01:12):
I thought you said during questions, you had to have it on.
Ms. Maloney (00:01:14):
Well, to come in the room you have to have the mask on, but as you talk, as you and I know it's very
hard to talk with the mask on, so it can be removed when you're asking questions or when [inaudible
00:01:26] [inaudible 00:01:44] The committee will come to order. Without objection the chair is
authorized to declare a recess of the committee at any time without objection. The gentlewoman from
North Carolina, Ms. Adams, as well as a gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Quigley will be permitted to join the
committee, and be recognized for questioning the witnesses. In addition, the gentlemen from North
Carolina, Mr. Walker will be recognized at the proper time to introduce his constituent. I now recognize
myself for an opening statement. Good morning. I would like to welcome Postmaster General Louis
DeJoy and the chairman of the Postal Board of Governors, Robert Duncan, to this oversight hearing.
Ms. Maloney (00:02:33):
And I thank you all for being here. In all of our districts, we are hearing from constituents about
significant delays in the delivery of mail, medicines, food, and other supplies. These delays are especially
concerning and potentially life threatening during the Coronavirus crisis. These are not isolated
complaints. They are widespread. Our offices have been receiving thousands of calls and emails about
the detrimental effects these delays are having on our veterans, seniors, small businesses and families
across the country. When we asked postal leaders about these delays, they downplayed them. They
dismissed them as temporary. They discounted them as minor unintended consequences of reforms
being put in place. But then we saw national headlines describing these delays in much more detail. I

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Welsh (03:45:07):
Right. And you contributed $1.2 million to president Trump's Trump victory fund, correct?
Welsh (03:45:16):
I would need to check that, but it sounds about right.
DeJoy (03:45:20):
Okay. And my understanding is that in November 2019, you were announced as the Chairman of the
Republican national convention fundraising committee for the convention that was to take place in
Charlotte. Is that correct?
Welsh (03:45:40):
Yes. That is a not-for-profit foundation that I was selected by the Charlotte hosts committee, which is
usually a bipartisan and conventions for the city.
Welsh (03:45:52):
Right. And you stayed on that position until June 12th 2020, shortly before you took over officially as the
Postmaster General, correct?
DeJoy (03:46:02):
I did, sir.
Welsh (03:46:04):
Right. And from January to April of this year, in the run up before you were selected as Postmaster
General, you provided 18 contributions in the amount of about $650,000 to various Republican
committees. Correct?
DeJoy (03:46:23):
You seem to have something in front of you. I don't know what you're looking at, but I give a lot of
money. Let this go for the record, I gave her a lot of money to Republicans.
Welsh (03:46:34):
Right. And let me just ask you an obvious question. You obviously support the Republicans. That's
obvious, it's totally within your right. You're a big supporter of president Trump, totally within your right.
How do you square being a major supporter of the president and Republican committees and other
members with the independence that's required of the Postmaster General? Can you really do both?
DeJoy (03:47:03):
Absolutely sir.
Welsh (03:47:07):
Well, you're aware of the fact, of course, that President Trump has made very hostile statements about
the postal service. He called the postal service a joke, I assume you disagree with that.

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DeJoy (03:47:20):
I do sir.
Welsh (03:47:22):
And he has also vehemently and repeatedly attacked mail in voting, saying, and I'll quote, "Mail in
ballots will lead to massive electoral fraud and a rigged 2020 election." Do you agree with that?
DeJoy (03:47:38):
I'm in charge of delivering ballots. I don't really want to comment on, that's not my responsibility to
elect, I'll leave that to the States.
Welsh (03:47:51):
It's not, but is it your view that if there is fraud, it will have nothing to do with the United States Postal
service.
DeJoy (03:47:59):
It is my view that if there is fraud, it's our intent not to have any fraud do with the United States postal
service, yes.
Welsh (03:48:13):
But if the mail is not delivered on time and Republicans and Democrats who do vote by mail, do not
have a timely delivery of that ballot to their County clerks that in fact will result in them being
disenfranchised. Is that not correct?
DeJoy (03:48:31):
The mail will be delivered on time, sir.
Welsh (03:48:35):
Well, we've heard that you have made significant reforms to try to improve postal service, but it's
resulted in significant delays. And those delays have coincided of course, with the run up to the election.
And you've apologized for that. It's not just the postal boxes, the blue boxes, the mail sorting machines,
but you heard from Congressman Cooper that the requirement about trucks...
Madam Chair (03:49:03):
The gentleman's time has expired. The gentleman's time has expired but the gentleman may answer the
question.
DeJoy (03:49:09):
Thank you, Congressman. Again I'll repeat, I had nothing to do with the collection boxes, the sorting
machines, the post office hours, or limiting over time. The change I made was asked the team to run the
transportation on time and mitigate extra trips based on a review of an OIG audit that was absolutely
astonishing in the amount of money we were spending and the number of late trips and extra trips we
were running. It was a plan that was rolled out with operations. And it was a very, very important aspect
of the network. People ask, why do trucks matter? Why do on-time trucks matter? They do matter.

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They're a fundamental premise of how the whole mail network is put together. If the trucks don't run on
time, the mail carriers can't leave on time. They are out there at night. They have to come back and get
more mail, collection processes or late, plant processes are distorted. I see several billion dollars in
potential savings in getting the system to just connect properly. And that's why we ran out and put a
plan together to really get this fundamental, basic principle, run your trucks on time. I would not know
how to reverse that now. Am I to say, "Don't run the trucks on time?" Is that the answer that we're
looking to get me to say here today?
Madam Chair (03:51:02):
The gentleman's time has expired. Now we recognize our Congressman, Keller, you are now recognized.
Keller (03:51:08):
Thank you Madam chair. And I would like to thank the Postmaster general DeJoy for being here today.
On July 29th 2020, the USPS general counsel sent a followup letter from may to 46 States, including
Pennsylvania expressing concern that the state's deadlines for requesting and casting ballots by mail do
not fit with the postal services delivery standards. Mr DeJoy, can you confirm that these letters and
outreach to state election offices is something USPS has done in the past under previous Postmasters
general?
DeJoy (03:51:42):
Yes. This has been done in the past. I looked at a letter about a week ago that was sent out before the
16 election also, but we have intensified the effort to work with the election boards and to
communicate with the election boards, to help them gain one knowledge on what our processes are. It's
really been amazing to me in this experience how many people in high places don't really understand
how we use a postmark.
Keller (03:52:18):
I would agree with that. Also, the Democrats have been making a lot of noise about these letters your
general counsel sent to state election boards. I'd like to clear this up, in the letters to the States, does
the USPS say that they will not deliver ballots this November?
DeJoy (03:52:35):
No, sir.
Keller (03:52:38):
Do the letters state that the USPS will not or cannot process ballots this November?
DeJoy (03:52:44):
No, sir, it doesn't.
Keller (03:52:46):
Do they say that the voters should not vote by mail?
DeJoy (03:52:50):

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processed that didn't make it on a truck would have gone on the next truck. If you looked at that chart,
you would see that as soon as we went into day plus one, we were backup into the 90 percentile. There
are other factors that are contributing to excessive delays throughout the country for these longer
delays.
Congresswoman Plaskett (04:45:37):
Yes, COVID...
DeJoy (04:45:38):
Yes, ma'am.
Congresswoman Plaskett (04:45:39):
... as well as others. And the fact that you would institute these impacts after that has happening to this
country. Really questions your logistics expertise.
Chairwoman Maloney (04:45:48):
The gentlelady's time has expired.
DeJoy (04:45:53):
We are working very, very hard across the whole country to get all the mail on the trucks, and we're
seeing rapid recovery. And we will... Once this is put back in balance, we will have a better system and a
much more cost effective system.
Chairwoman Maloney (04:46:12):
Okay. The Congresswoman's time has expired. Congress member Gomez, you are now recognized. Vice
Chair of the Committee, Congressman Gomez.
Congressman Gomez (04:46:21):
Thank you so much, Madam Chairs. I want to focus on the change that you take credit for, which is
making sure that the trucks have gone out on time. So I'm going to read a series of questions. Most of
them at the beginning are yes, no. You instituted a change to sharply reduce extra mail delivery trips by
"requiring trucks to run on time and on schedule," correct?
DeJoy (04:46:42):
Yes, sir.
Congressman Gomez (04:46:44):
And referring to this new delivery schedule, you told the Senate, "Our production processing within the
plants was not fully aligned with the established schedule, so we had some delays in mail." Correct?
DeJoy (04:46:55):
Yes, sir.
Congressman Gomez (04:46:57):

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Mr. DeJoy, when precisely did you implement the change of requiring the trucks to leave on time? The
date.
DeJoy (04:47:07):
It was the second week, I think, second week of July.
Congressman Gomez (04:47:10):
Second week of July. Thank you, sir. So you told the Senate that the US Postal Service did an analysis
showing these changes theoretically would mean "all late deliveries would have been improved." Then
you told Senator Rosen that didn't happen "for a variety of reasons." Then you continued, "The analysis
we did would show that we would improve service to every constituent." Can you briefly describe the
variety of reasons that that did not happen?
DeJoy (04:47:37):
You confused me.
Congressman Gomez (04:47:38):
Basically the fact that you said that this would actually improve by the delivery of mail on time, you said
that that would happen. And then later on, you said for a variety of reasons that did not happen. What
are those variety of reasons?
DeJoy (04:47:51):
Yeah, so the this will improve service and reduce cost substantially, and it will also be the fundamental
baseline of operation for postal services [crosstalk 04:48:08]...
Congressman Gomez (04:48:05):
Mr. DeJoy, I'm going to reclaim my time. I'm asking you specifically, because you said this in the
beginning of your testimony, you said for a variety of reasons...
DeJoy (04:48:14):
Specifically... One of the big... So variety of reasons has to do why mail delivery is down across the
nation. With regard to this specific change, the production schedules within the plants were not aligned
with the transportation schedules going out... going between the plants. There's about 10% of the mail
was not aligned. The production plants were getting done late, and the trucks were leaving. This was not
a mandate that every truck leaves on time. We still have a significant amount of trucks that run delay
and a significant amount of extra trips. Judgements were made at each individual plant that that did
not... that provided for transitional in doing it. We will get this back. We're working it very hard, and it
will be a successful endeavor for the United States Postal Service.
Congressman Gomez (04:49:03):
Well, that's what we're hoping. Mr. DeJoy, you couldn't make this commitment to the Senate on Friday,
so I'm going to ask you again. Do you commit providing the analysis that you use regarding the truck
schedules that would show that there will be lower late deliveries? Would you provide that to us by
Friday?

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DeJoy (04:49:20):
I will go back and see what I can...
Congressman Gomez (04:49:22):
I have it for you right here. This is what you said. I can read a quote for you.
DeJoy (04:49:26):
Okay, well I'll go back and look, too, and if it said that and I have something, I'll send it to you.
Congressman Gomez (04:49:31):
I kind of highly doubt that you're going to do that, butDeJoy (04:49:33):
Why would you doubt? Why would you do that?
Congressman Gomez (04:49:35):
Because you're not very forthcoming. You also told the Senate, "Our recovery process..."
DeJoy (04:49:39):
I'm here, sir.
Congressman Gomez (04:49:39):
... "should have been a few days and amounted to be a few weeks." Why have days turned into weeks?
DeJoy (04:49:47):
I'm trying to figure that out.
Congressman Gomez (04:49:50):
So what I find interesting is that you're supposed to be some logistics expert, right? That's what you've
been brought in. That's what people have said, that... and then all of a sudden, you said, "Okay, we're
going to get these trucks to leave on time," but you didn't focus on getting the mail to the people on
time, and that you said that that would actually improve, right? You were to reduce late deliveries, but
the opposite happened. And then you would say that it would take only a matter of days to fix, but that
didn't happen. Right?
DeJoy (04:50:17):
Mm-hm (affirmative).
Congressman Gomez (04:50:18):
I know people that work in operations, my wife works in operations, very good at it, and they're looking
at data all the time, all the time, and seeing what little operational changes can be done to change the
flow of whatever you're trying to accomplish. So that's what people are questioning your ability, right? I
actually talked to a lot of postal workers in Los Angeles. I represent Los Angeles. I was out there, and

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several days has moved the needle in a positive way. I'm not sure I can, but hopefully, the time
Republicans have spent talking about the real issues will provide momentum to lead to something
positive. Hopefully, the time Republicans have spent shining the light on partisan Democratic attacks
have helped Americans to understand the real situation. If the majority is serious about fixing the
longstanding financial and operational challenges, then we stand ready to work together. And to do
that, Congress needs to have a working relationship with the Postal Service.
Mr. Comer (05:44:18):
This week has been the opposite of a partnership and I fear has done longterm damage to the nation's
trust in one of its most esteemed, important, and citizen-serving federal entities. And I also fear the
Democrats' conspiracy theories have risked American's faith in the elections in a way that Russians and
Chinese could only dream of. There is no way the process we have followed can produce results that will
help the post office be better and serve all Americans. We can do better. And I hope to work with my
colleagues to assure the post office is around for decades and centuries to come. Thank you, Madam
Chairman. And I yield back.
Ms. Maloney (05:44:56):
Gentlemen, and in closing, I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony, and I want to commend all
of my colleagues for participating in this important conversation. With that, and without objection,
letters from organizations in support of the bipartisan legislation passed by the House on Saturday shall
be part of the hearing record, along with articles and letters from across the country depicting the
effects of the delays on veterans, the elderly, the chronically ill, small businesses, farmers, and ordinary
Americans who depend on the mail to be delivered. Without objection, all members will have five
legislative days within which to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the Chair, which
will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response, and I ask our witnesses to respond as promptly as
you are able. This hearing is adjourned. Thank you.
Mr. Comer (05:46:03):
Thank you.
PART 10 OF 10 ENDS [05:47:49]

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