Red Bend Software, Inc. et al v. Google

Filing 97

DECLARATION re 96 Brief by Jennifer C. Tempesta by Red Bend Software, Inc., Red Bend, Ltd.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1, # 2 Exhibit 2, part 1, # 3 Exhibit 2, part 2, # 4 Exhibit 3, # 5 Exhibit 4)(Tempesta, Jennifer)

Red Bend Software, Inc. et al v. Google

Doc. 97 Att. 4

EXHIBIT 3

Dockets.Justia.com

CONFIDENTIAL-ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY MARTIN G. WALKER, Ph.D.

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS EASTERN DIVISION R E D BEND LTD., and RED BEND S O F T W A R E INC., Plaintiffs, vs. G O O G L E INC., No. 09-cv-11813-DPW

Defendant. _________________________________/

*** CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY *** DEPOSITION OF MARTIN G. WALKER, Ph.D. March 9, 2010

R e p o r t e d by: N a t a l i e Y. Botelho C S R No. 9897

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CONFIDENTIAL-ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY MARTIN G. WALKER, Ph.D.

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t h e meaning in the context of this patent. Q. Okay. So let's just now talk for a moment Would a Windows

a b o u t Windows executable files.

e x e c u t a b l e file contain symbolic code? A. Let's see. To be -- I think you mean --

y o u ' r e referring to a Windows executable file -W i n d o w s PE executable file format -Q. A. Q. A. Yes. -- is that right? Yes. I haven't considered that before. Let

m e -- notes, my notes.

There is some parts of the

W i n d o w s PE file format that I actually -- that I d i d n ' t completely investigate, but of the parts that d i d , there's text and data and the resources and the r e l o c section that would not be symbolic. Q. A. Q. That would not be symbolic? Would not be symbolic. So there are portions of the Windows PE

f o r m a t , though, that would be symbolic? A. Q. I don't know. So on your notes on the next page, MW 3,

a t the bottom, there's a heading that says, "PE ( p o r t a b l e executable) file format." that? Do you see

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A. Q.

Yes. And about three lines later, four lines

l a t e r , there's something that says, "symbol table info." A. Can you explain what that is? Yeah, that was -- this is actually done a

l i t t l e bit before this previous page, but the p r e v i o u s page, the symbol table info had to do with t h i s reloc section, R-E-L-O-C section, that at the e n d of the day Courgette used to identify the -- all o f the absolute addresses. Q. Okay. So in your investigation of the

W i n d o w s portable executable file format, you d e t e r m i n e d that, in fact, there is a symbol table in t h a t file format, correct? A. It was more a list of addresses as opposed

t o a symbol table. Q. In your notes you call it a symbol table,

t h o u g h , correct? A. Yeah, that was -- that -- that was when I

w a s trying to figure out what it was, then the page 0 2 became sort of my bible for the PE file format. Q. So what do you mean by "symbolic code" in What are the characteristics of

y o u r declaration?

s y m b o l i c code as you use that term in your declaration?

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A.

Symbolic -- symbolic code, as I use the

t e r m , had to do with representation of the objects i n the program through the use of symbols, that t h e -- whereas the executable files referred to a d d r e s s e s or other -- whereas the executable files r e f e r r e d to addresses or used direct references, t h e r e is symbols used in level of indirection or a l a y e r of abstraction, or symbolic code would use a l a y e r of abstraction. Q. Well, ex -- so executable code also uses a

l a y e r of abstraction on occasion, correct? A. Q. I don't know what you mean by that. Well, let me ask you what you meant by

" r e p r e s e n t a t i o n of objects through the use of symbols." A. Can you give an example of that? So the representation of objects that

i n s t e a d of having a direct reference to something, a n executable -- an executable -- an executable o b j e c t doesn't -- has all of the references p r e s u m a b l y resolved, that is, that you don't -- that i t refers to an address. The instruction refers to

a n address as opposed to refers to go off to look s o m e t h i n g -- well, that's not quite right, but it b a s i c a l l y refers to -- directly refers to the a d d r e s s or as opposed to some more abstract

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representation. Q. Is a relative address, in your view, an

a d d r e s s or a more abstract representation? A. Relative address is part of an

i n s t r u c t i o n , so that's something that can be e x e c u t e d directly. Q. So --

So would a relative address be symbolic,

i n your view, or no? A. Q. No. What about the name of a register; would

t h a t be symbolic or an address? A. Well, the -- you know, these -- so the

n a m e of a register -- there's a one-to-one c o r r e s p o n d e n c e between the name to the register -n a m e of a register and the code that references that r e g i s t e r , the bits in the code that reference that register. So that's not symbolic then. That's just

replacement. Q. So in the Windows portable executable file

f o r m a t , what is the symbol table info that you're r e f e r r i n g to on MW 3? A. When I'm looking at this, my -- that it

w a s referring -- my memory is that it's referring o f f to the reloc table as a part of the -- as a part o f the sections.

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Q.

And sitting here today, do you have -- can

y o u say with certainty that the Windows portable e x e c u t a b l e file format does not include symbolic c o d e , as you use that term in your declaration? A. I can't say definitively. I mean, the

p a r t s of it that I looked at were not symbolic. T h e r e might be other parts that are. Q. A. c o u l d be. Q. If a Windows file -- Windows executable Sorry. Other parts that are?

I said there might be other parts that

f i l e did have symbolic code in it and that -- that f i l e could not be an old data table as that term is u s e d in the claims of the asserted patent; is that correct? A. Q. Can you try the question again? I --

If a Windows executable file did include

s y m b o l i c code in it, such a file could not be an old d a t a table as that term is used in the claims of the a s s e r t e d patent? A. Let's see. So the difficulty that I'm

h a v i n g is that there's a -- that the r e p r e s e n t a t i o n -- the question is, is it -- if it h a d some small insignificant component of symbolic i n f o r m a t i o n that was just treated as pure data, not

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t h e r e ' s a distinction -- let's see.

So there's --

h e refers to them -- he refers to object files d i f f e r e n t l y than object code, but for the purposes o f what's disclosed here, I don't see the relevance o f the distinction. MR. WILLIAMS: Q. Okay. Well, what does

h e disclose is in the content of an object file in t h e section that we're referring to now? A. "Object files contain a series of defined

r e c o r d s , each one containing specific items such as o b j e c t code for a routine, the name of a routine, e x t e r n a l reference from one routine to another, or comments." Q. Would such an object file as described

t h e r e be executable? A. This file would not be executable until a

l i n k e r touched it and loaded it into memory. Q. When you say "a linker touched it," what What would the linker do?

d o you mean? A.

Resolve -- one of the things, resolve I don't know what it would

t h e -- well, let's see.

d o in every case, but at least it would resolve some e x t e r n a l references. Q. A. All right. Address issues with relocatable code.

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