Viacom International, Inc. et al v. Youtube, Inc. et al
Filing
325
DECLARATION of William M. Hohengarten/ Additional Unsealed Exhibits to the Declaration of William M. Hohengarten in Support of Viacom's Motion for Partial Summary Judgment in Support in Support re: 176 MOTION for Partial Summary Judgment /Viacom's Notice of Motion for Partial Summary Judgment on Liability and Inapplicability of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act Safe Harbor Defense.. Document filed by Country Music Television, Inc., Paramount Pictures Corporation, Viacom International, Inc., Black Entertainment Television, LLC, Comedy Partners. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 322, # 2 Exhibit 323, # 3 Exhibit 338, # 4 Exhibit 374, # 5 Exhibit 376, # 6 Exhibit 377)(Hohengarten, William)
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
VIACOM INTERNATIONAL, INC., COMEDY PARTNERS, COUNTRY MUSIC. TELEVISION, INC., PARAMOUNT
PICTURES CORPORAT I ON, and BLACK
) )
) )
)
ENTERTAINMENT TELEVISION, LLC,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
YOUTUBE, INC., YOUTUBE, LLC i
and GOOGLE, INC.,
) )
)
) NO. 07-CV-2203
)
) )
Defendants.
) ) )
)
THE FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION PREMIER )
LEAGUE LIMITED, BOURNE CO., et al.,)
on behal f of themselves and all )
others similarly situated, )
vs.
YOU
Plaintiffs,
TUBE , INC., YOUTUBE, LLC, and
)
)
) NO. 07-CV-3582
) ) )
GOOGLE, INC.,
Defendants.
)
) )
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF CUONG DO SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2009
BY: ANDREA M. IGNACIO HOWARD, CSR, RPR, CCRR, CLR JOB NO. 16417
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FEBRUARY 13, 2009
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9:01 a.m.
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
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CUONG DO, SHEARMN & STERLING, LLP 525 Market
Street, San Francisco, California, pursuant to
notice, before ANDREA M. IGNACIO HOWARD, CLR,
CCRR, RPR, CSR License No. 9830.
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A P PEA RAN C E S:
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FOR THE PLAINTIFFS VIACOM INTERNATIONAL INC.:
JENNER & BLOCK, LLP
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By: MICHAEL DESANCTIS, Esq.
SARAH A. MAGUIRE, Esq.
1099 New York Avenue, NW, Sui te 900
Washington, D. C., 20001
(202) 637 -6357 mdesanctis@jenner. com
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smaguire@jenner. com
FOR THE LEAD PLAINTIFFS AND PROSPECTIVE CLASS:
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BERNSTEIN LITOWITZ BERGER & GROSSMAN, LLP
By: BENJAMIN GALDSTON, Esq.
12481 High Bluff Drive, Suite 300 San Diego, California 92130-3582
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(858) 720-3188 beng@blbglaw.com
FOR THE DEFENDANTS YOUTUBE, INC., YOUTUBE, LLC and
GOOGLE i INC.:
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MAYER BROWN, LLP
By:
BRIAN WILLEN, Esq.
1675 Broadway
New York, New York 10019
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(212) 506-2 i 46 bwillen@mayer. com
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A P PEA RAN C E S (Cont inued. )
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FOR THE DEFENDANTS YOUTUBE, INC., YOUTUBE, LLC and
GOOGLE, INC.:
WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
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By: MICHAEL H. RUBIN, Esq.
650 Page Mill Road
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Palo Alto, California 94304-1050
(650) 493-9300 mrubin@wsgr.com
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ALSO PRESENT:
Adam Barea, Google, Inc.
Kelly Truelove, Consultant
Lou Meadows, Videographer.
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---000---
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11
1
DO
2 09:09:21
A
They -- the -- my group of engineers were
3 09: 09: 25 responsible for implementing the features for the end
4 09:09:32 users of the YouTube site.
5 09:09:45
Q
And is that group of engineers that we're
6 09: 09: 47 talking about responsible for anything else other than
7 09: 09: 50 those duties on the YouTube site?
8 09:09:53
9 09:09:55
MR. WILLEN: Objection as to the form.
THE WITNESS: I mean, it's hard for me to
10 09:10:07 answer exactly, because that's a broad question.
11 09:10:09 12 09:10:10
Q
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
I'm just trying to get at, is it a team
that's dedicated to the YouTube site or do
13 09:10:12 that's
14 09:10:15 they also do other things at Google?
15 09:10:18
A
Just -- just -- well, just like any other --
16 09:10:23 just like any engineer at Google, they have a primary
17 09: 10: 26 responsibility, and they can, at their discretion, as
18 09: 10: 31 well as that of their manager, engage in side
19 09:10:35 projects.
20 09:10:36
Q
Okay. And those side proj ects migh t involve
21
22 23
24
09:10:39 YouTube or might involve something
09:10:42
A
Q
else at Google?
All of the above are possible.
Okay.
09:10:43
09:10:48
I understand from your prior
you began work
deposition that
at
YouTube
in
2005 ;
is
25
09:10:53
that correct?
12
1
DO
2 3
4
09:10:53
A
Q
Yes.
And you were
09:10:53
09:10:55
its fifth
employee?
A
Q
I
believe
I was
the fi fth.
5
09:10:56
Okay.
What was your
title
then, when you
6 09:11:01 started, if
7 09:11:05
A
if there were titles then?
The only ti tIe I've -- I heard or saw was an
8 09:11:11 offer letter, and I believe that was senior engineer.
9 09:11:13
Q
Okay. And what were your duties when you
10 09:11:15 started?
11 09:11:15
A
My duties were to -- primarily to ensure the
12 09: 11: 21 scaleabi li ty of the YouTube website -13 09:11:26
Q
Okay.
-- as well as do other -- any kind of
14 09:11:26
A
15 09: 11 :28 infrastructure work in general.
16 09:11:30
Q
Can you define what you mean by "ensure the
17 09:11:33 scaleability."
18
09:11:34 09:11:38
A
So
at that point the
you know, was
YouTube
was
site
was The
19
already
already growing.
20
21 22
09:11:42 numbers were
09:11:45
09:11:48 09:11:51
09:11:54 09:11:57
certainly very modest compared to the present day, but it was -- nonetheless, it was still growing percentage-wise quite a bit. So the -- the
23
24
25
that. So by "scaleabili ty, " I mean the ability to keep pace with the user demands on the site.
challenge
was
to keep
up with
13
1
DO
Q
2 09:11:59
Okay. Were there other engineers at YouTube
3 09:12:04 at that time?
4 09:12:06
A
There were -- there were some other
5 09:12:08 engineers, yes.
6 09:12:08
Q
So of the four other employees that were
7 09: 12: 11 there when you arrived -- first of all ( what were
8 09: 12: 15 their names?
909:12:17
10 09:12:20
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection; whose names?
MR. DESANCTIS:
I'm sorry. The witness
11 09: 12: 21 testified that he was the fi fth employee at YouTube,
12 09: 12: 24 and I'm wondering who the previous four were.
13 09:12:26
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THE WITNESS: Okay. So excluding the
09:12:28
cofounders,
they were
Brent Hurley, Christina
15
09:12:42 Brodbeck, Yu Pan, Mike Solomon, and
09:12:58 were four employees, I 09:12:58
MR.
Q
-- yeah, those
16
17 18
believe.
Okay.
DESANCTIS:
09:13:01 09:13:04
09:13:05 09:13:07
And
of those, are any of them software
19
engineers?
A
Q
20 21
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Two
Who
were software engineers. were those?
Solomon.
09:13:09
09:13:12
A
Q
They were Yu Pan and Mike
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Okay.
Did they have
distinct engineering
09:13:22
duties from yours?
A
25
09:13:35
No.
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1
DO
2 09:18:31
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay. Let me break it apart
3 09:18:33 then.
4
09:18:35
Q
What do you mean by "transcoding" ?
My
5
09:18:39 09:18:40 09:18:50 09:18:56
09:18:57
A
understanding of the definition of
computeri zed
6
7
"transcoding" is to the -- the -- the
another one.
Q
process of converting from one computer format to
8 9
Okay.
And
is there
a
single format that
we
10
11 12
09:19:17 YouTube
converts videos into?
Again, what time period are
Let i s
09:19:23 09:19:27 09:19:31 09:19:35
09:19:40
A
Q
referring to? say in that -- that early 2005 -2006
13 14 15
sorry -- late 2005, early
A
period.
It -format.
we
were converting to the
flash video
or
FLV
Q
16 09:19:42
Okay. Were any videos transcoded into a
MR. WILLEN: Objection; vague as to time.
Are we still talking about --
17 09:19:47 different format?
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MR. DESANCTIS: At that time. All this line
09:19:53
09:19:57 09:19:57
of questioning is going to be at that time.
THE WITNESS:
Not to my
Okay.
coding
recollection.
take place?
as to the form.
23 24
MR.
Q
DESANCTIS:
09:20:03
09:20:07
Why
did this
trans
25
MR. WILLEN:
Obj ection
Page 18
1
DO
THE WITNESS: The trans
09:20:09
09:20:17 09:20:22
09:20:30 09:20:32 09:20:40 09:20:52
2 3
coding took place to
provide - - so that the YouTube website could provide
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the video to its end users in a -- in a form that was,
you know i accessible to the greatest, you know,
percentage of our users.
MR. DESANCTIS: I see.
'7
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Q And when a file is transcoded, is the
original video that the user uploaded altered somehow?
09:21:00 09:21:07
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MR. WILLEN: Objection; vague.
THE WITNESS: In the process of transcoding
it, the system does not modify the original file.
09:21:09
09:21:14
09:21:19
09:21:20 09:21:25 09:21:27 09:21:29 09:21:32
09:21:34
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Q So is a copy made and - - and that copy is put
into whatever format YouTube wishes?
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MR. WILLEN: Objection as to the form.
THE WITNESS: Please clarify. I
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay. I i 11 break - - I 111
break it apart.
09:21:35
Q Is a copy made of the video - - of the
original video that is uploaded by the user?
09:21:39
09:21:45
09:21:53 09:21:58 09:22:08
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A A copy is made to - - I believe, originally
in in those days, a copy was made to another video
24 25
server.
Q So then the original video that i s uploaded by
DAVID FELDMA WORLDWIDE, INC.
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f-47fb.bb6e~c8d87815bf5
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1
DO
2 3
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09:22:11
the user,
if
I understand,
is
on one
server, and
a
09:22:15 copy
09:22:18
--
a
separate copy
was made
to another -- a
different server?
MR. WILLEN:
5
6 7
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09:22:19 09:22:21 09:22:22 the
Objection.
I'm
MR. DESANCTIS:
just trying to understand
was
testimony.
THE WITNESS:
09:22:26 09:22:28 09:22:29 09:22:36
Q
I
believe that
the case in
9
the
early days.
MR.
10
11 12
DESANCTIS:
Okay.
made and put on
And
the copy that is
the
was
09:22:39
other server, is that the one that's -- that
in
13 14 15
09:22:43 the
09:22:47 09:22:51
flash format that
MR. WILLEN:
THE WITNESS:
YouTube
Obj ection
desired?
as to the form.
on
The
flash video files were
on
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09:22:56 both machines, and the
09:22:59 machines.
original files were
I see.
Okay.
both
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09:23:01 09:23:09
Q
MR.
DESANCTIS:
I'm
still
a
Ii ttle bit unclear,
and I
20
09:23:12 apologize
if
I'm not
following well enough.
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Let's just talk about a single video that's
22
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09:23:18 uploaded by a
user
i.n
its original
and
format.
It's
is
made
09:23:26 stored on a
09:23:32 of
particular server,
and then a copy
on a
24 25
that in flash format
is that correct?
stored
different
09:23:35 server i
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1
DO
2 09:23:44
3 09:23:44 4 09:23:44
A
Q
No.
Okay.
It is converted into flash format and both
A
5 09: 23: 47 the original and the flash copy are retained on the
6 09:23:52 on the first server and replicated to a second server.
7 09:23:59
8 09:23:59
Q
I see.
Just so I know the terminology, when you say
9 09:24:11 "replicated to another server," does that mean an
10 09: 24: 15 addi tional copy is made?
11 09:24:18
MR. WILLEN: Objection.
THE WITNESS: A -- the -- the system makes
12 09:24:22
13 09: 24: 24 a -- a -- a copy of the files to the second machine.
14 09: 24: 28 MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
15 09:24:30
Q
So the -- I just want to make sure you and I
16 09: 24: 33 are using the same terminology. When we say
17 09:24:36 "replicate" or "copy," is that the same thing?
18 09:24:38
A
In a technical
in a technical scenario
19 09:24:45 like this, I
20 09:24:49
Q
I use them synonymously, so yes.
What do we
what do you caii the first
21 09:24:52 server where, as I understand it, the original and the
22 09:24:57 initial flash formatted version are kept?
23 09:25:00 24 09:25:06
MR. WILLEN: Objection as to the form.
THE WITNESS: I -- I typically would call
25 09: 25: 08 that machine the "upload server."
Page 25
1
DO
09:33:00
09:33:03
2
3
of either the original or the reformatted videos?
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection to the form and calls
for speculation.
09:33:05
09:33:06 09:33:23 09:33:32
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5
THE WITNESS: I don i t believe there were.
6 7 8
9
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Q
Now, when a user uploads a video in
in
09:33:40
09:33:45
whatever format he or she may upload it in, does the
user - - does the uploader direct you to transcode the
video into flash format?
09:33:50
09:33:55
10
11
12
13
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
09:33:57
09:34:04
THE WITNESS: What exactly do you mean by
direct us in this case?
09:34:05
14
MR. DESANCTIS: Q. i s there an opportuni ty
for the user to indicate, please recode this into
flash or please do not transcode this into flash?
09:34:07
09:34:11
09:34:16
15 16
17
18
A The system was not designed to provide that
option.
09:34:20 09:34:21 09:34:28
19
20
Q Okay. So it's a decision of YouTube to
transcode videos into flash, not the decision of the
user - - not the decision of the uploader?
09:34:31
09:34:35 09:34:36 09:34:37
21 22
23
MR. WILLEN: Objection; mischaracterizes the
testimony.
THE WITNESS: While it was not - - the system
did not provide the user the option, I believe it was
24
09:34:41
25
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f47fb-bbGe..c8d87815bf5
DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
Page 27
1
DO
09:36:30
2
3
Is it your testimony that the -- that a copy
of both the original video and the trans
09:36:42
coded video
09:36:49 09:36:55
09:36:55
4
5 6 7 8 9
was made and put on a second server?
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection.
MR. DESANCTIS: I - - I believe that's what
09:36:56 09:36:59
09:37:00 09:37:01 09:37:04 09:37:15
you had been testifying about, and I just want to go
back to something about that.
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
10
THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 12
13
Q
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Was that copy made at the request or the
09:37:21
09:37:24
direction of the user - - of the uploader i I should
14 15
16
say?
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
09:37:25
09:37:33
09:37:43
THE WITNESS: The system performed the
replication as a course of its normal operation,
un- - - you know i uninstructed by the user.
the
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09:37:48
09:37:56 09:38:00 09:38:02
09:38:03 09:38:08
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Q
20 21
So I think the answer to my question is
is
no?
MR. WILLEN; Objection; mischaracterizes the
22
23
testimony.
He didn't say no.
09:38:09
09:38:10
24 25
MR. DESANCTIS: All right. I i 11 take his
DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC 0
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f-47fb.bb6e..c8d87815bf5
36
1
DO
2 09:52:44 3 09:52:45
4
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
THE WITNESS: That we have a larger
09:52:50 thumbnail, as I 09:52:53 be 09:52:59
just mentioned, that
was supposed
to
5
-- that
that we
were for, I think
embedded player,
a brief
embedded
6
7
period, using for the
in the
09:53:04 YouTube 09:53:09
player to provide the users an idea what was
video before
8
they
started playing
the video.
9 09:53:15
So that one was used because it was bigger
10 09:53:18 than the other one, and it would -- you know,
11 09:53:20 originally, but then we switched away from it because
12 09: 53: 23 of bandwidth considerations.
13 09:53:26
The other three thumbnails were implemen- --
14 09:53:29 implemented before I joined YouTube.
15 09:54:18
MR. DESANCTIS: Q. Do you know whether the
16
17
09:54:19 four thumbnails
09:54:22 09:54:37
for
a
particular video are stored
can be
on
the
same
A
server?
That
18
is -- that
Do
answered
differently
sorry.
Let
19
20
09:54:43 depending on what you mean 09:54:45
Q
exactly.
Okay.
you know where
--
I'm
21 09:54:49 me back up.
22 09:54:50
You testified a moment ago that in 2000
23 09:54:53 late 2005, early 2006 there were four thumbnail images
24 09:54:58 extracted for each video, barring a bug or a corrupted
25 09:55:03 file.
1 DO
2 09:56:45 any machine has other things, operating system, for
3 09: 56: 49 example.
38
4 09:56:49 5 09:56:51
6
7 8
Q
Oh, sure.
Other than an operating system, was any other
09:56:53
09:56:57
data stored on it?
A
Q
No.
09:56:59
Okay.
Was
there -- did there
come a
time
9
09:57:16 when fewer than four thumbnails Were
09:57:20 each video
09:57:27
A
extracted for
10
in the ordinary course of business?
11
12
I do not know what happened
my
prior to
my
09:57:30
joining. After
times.
Q
joining,
I
--
I do not
recall
any
13
09:57:33 such
14 09:57:34
Okay. Then up to and including when you went
15 09:57:39 on leave, is it your understanding that still four
16 09: 57: 45 thumbnail images are extracted for every video?
17 09:57:53
MR. WILLEN: Objection; calls for
18 09:57:55 speculation.
19 09:57:55
THE WITNESS: The last I heard, which was
20
21 22
09:57:57 some number of months ago,
it
was
still
four.
Are you
09:58:00
09:58:08
MR. DESANCTIS:
MR.
Okay.
you want a break?
WILLEN:
Do
23
24
09:58:10 okay?
09:58:12
Are you okay?
MR.
MR.
DESANCTIS:
WILLEN:
Did you
25
09:58:14
I was
just seeing.
Go
ahead.
39
1
DO
2 09:58:16
3 09:58:21
Q
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Now, does the user who uploads a video
4 09: 58: 26 instruct YouTube whether or not to make the
5 09: 58: 29 thumbnail -- whether or not to extract the thumbnail
6 09:58:33 images?
7 09:58:34
MR. WILLEN: Objection; vague; calls for
8 09:58:36 speculation.
9 09:58:37
10
11
12
MR. DESANCTIS: Q. Do you understand the
09:58:38
09:58:42
question?
A
Q
What do you mean by
09:58:43
Okay.
I'm
"instruct"? wondering -- and -- and
me know.
you
tell
If
13 14
09:58:45 me
09:58:48
if you want to put this in it's still not clear, you let
di fferent terms.
15 09:58:50
I'm wondering whether the YouTube -- whether
16 09: 58: 55 YouTube automatically makes the thumbnail images of
17 09:59:02 videos that are uploaded or whether it does so only at
18 09:59:05 the specific structure -- instruction of the user who
19 09: 59: 09 uploads the video?
20 09:59:10 21 09:59:14
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection to the form.
THE WITNESS: The YouTube system
22 09: 59: 15 automatically creates the thumbnails.
23 09:59:25
24 09:59:28
It might be time for a little break.
MR. DESANCTIS: Yes. I should have said at
25 09: 59: 31 the outset, anytime you want a break, just speak up.
1 DO
2 11:50:31 employees then?
3
4 5
81
11:50:33 11:50:33
A
Q
Yes.
Okay.
Do
you know
--
and
--
and, again, I'm
11:50:44 not asking
11:50:47
Do
for names.
you know,
6
7
just trying to get a sense. let's say, at the time you left
I'm
11:50:50
for leave, what general departments or what types of
8 11:50:56 employees are given administrative -- access to the
9 11:51:00 admin?
10 11:51:03
11 11:51:07
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection to the form.
THE WITNESS: I don't -- I do not know what
12 11:51:09 the policies were.
13 11:51:10
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Q
14 11:51:23 15 11:51:31
16
17
18
If a -- or -- sorry. Strike that.
Through the admin website, can a YouTube
11:51:44 employee remove a video from being viewable
11:51:51 11:51:53 11:51:57 11:52:02
A
Q
to the
public
on
the YouTube site?
Obj ection;
MR. WILLEN:
MR.
vague as to time.
19
DESANCTIS:
Q.
At
-- at
any time.
20
21
It is -- it is possible.
Okay.
11:52:06
Well,
just to
be
clear,
when you
say,
22 11:52:13 "it is possible," do you mean, maybe, you don't know
23 11: 52: 18 or, yes, that is something that is possibly using the
24 11: 52: 23 admin tool?
25 11:52:25
A
I am saying that it is possible using the
1 DO
2 11: 52 :28 admin tool, should the user have the privilege to do
3 11: 52: 32 so.
82
4 11:52:33 5 11:52:34
Q
I see.
Do not all people with access to the admin
6 11: 52: 36 tool have the same bundle of rights, so to speak?
7
8
11:52:41
11: 52: 42
A
Q
It varies
Okay.
Do
from person to person.
you know who
decides what rights
a
9
11: 52 :50
particular
A
Q
admin user
will
be given?
10 11 12
13 14
11:52:56
11:52:57
No.
Okay.
Prior to your going
on
leave, did you
11:53:05 have 11:53:09 11:53:09 11:53:16 11:53:19 11:53:20 11:53:23
A
Q
access to the admin tool?
Yes.
Had you always had
access to the admin tool
15
since
A
Q
you began work
No.
at
YouTube?
16
17 18
Okay.
When
were you
first
granted access to
the admin tool?
A
19 11:53:27
It was some time in the couple of months
20 11:53:31 after I joined.
21 11:53:32
Q
Okay. I keep referring to the admin tool,
22 11:53:43 but, of course, you're more familiar with the
23 11:53:45 architecture than I am.
24 11:53:47
Is there one admin websi te or tools -- tool,
25 11: 53: 51 so to speak, or are there multiple admin websi tes and
1 DO
2 11:53:55 tools that various YouTube employees might access?
3 11:53:58 4 11:54:03
83
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
THE WITNESS: There is one site called the
5 11:54:07 "admin tool."
6 11:54:08
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Q
7 11:54:09
And -- and -- and what is that exactly? Is
8 11:54:12 that a database? Is it a website? Something else?
9 11:54:15
A
It is a system created by YouTube, and -- and
10 11: 54: 23 it provides a web-based interface for these
11 11:54:25 administrative tasks.
12 11:54:27
Q
I see.
13 11:54:30
And is the sys tem that you just described
14 11: 54: 55 distinct from logging into the YouTube site with an
15 11: 54: 58 admin account?
16
17 18
11:55:01
11:55:04
MR. WILLEN:
THE WITNESS:
Obj ection;
vague.
a
Yes,
there's
distinct
admin
11:55:20
11:55:22
site that's separate
MR.
Q
from the website.
Okay.
who
19
DESANCTIS:
20
21 22
11:55:49 11:55:51 11:56:04
And
for those
are authorized to remove
videos, for whatever reason, is that removal done
through the admin tool you just described?
A
Q
23 24 25
11:56:10 11:56:10
11:56:13
Yes.
Okay.
Is there any other
a
way
that
you know
of to -- to remove
video other than through the
1 DO
2 11:56:16 admin tool?
3
4
84
11:56:20 11:56:26 11:56:32
11:56:33 11:56:33
A
One
can remove a video
if
one has access
to
the account that uploaded the video.
Q
5
Oh,
to the user account?
6
7
A
Q
Yes.
Okay.
So a
user can remove the -- the video
who
8
11:56:36 he or she
11:56:41
11:56:42
posted, as could anyone else
has access
9
to that user's account?
A
Q
10
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
11
12
11:56:42 11:56:52
11: 56: 58
Separate and apart from the
the admin system you just described, I'm going to get
back to
13 14
11:57:00 11:57:04
that, are there admin accounts with which individuals can log on to the YouTube site?
MR.
15 16
17
WILLEN:
Obj ection
as to the form;
it's
11:57:09 ambiguous. 11:57:10
THE WITNESS:
It --
can you define what you
18
11:57:11 mean by "admin account"? 11:57:14 11:57:21 because
MR.
19
DESANCTIS:
Actually,
I
--
I
can't,
me
20
21
22
it's
something that I've
just seen in the
could help
11:57:24 documents, and I was hoping you
11:57:27
define
it.
Q
23 11:57:30
Is that a term you've -- you're unfamiliar
24 11:57:32 with?
25 11:57:36
A
It's a term that -- I mean, I guess there
Page 112
1
DO
13:34:38
13:34:42
2 3
number of views per day at the time that you went on
leave from YouTube?
A
13:34:43 13:34:48 13:34:50
13:34:53
13 : 34: 53
4
5 6 7 8 9
It was -- I believe it was around
one-and-a-half billion.
Q
One-and-a-half billion with a "B"?
A
Q
Yes.
Okay. And how from that one-and-a-half
13:34:56
13:35:04
billion are the particular videos chosen to be
10
displayed under the heading "Videos being watched
right now..."?
13:35:07
13:35:08 13:35:10 13:35:16 13:35:20 13:35:38
11
12 13
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
THE WITNESS: The system employed an
algorithm to which I I do not know the details.
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay. All right.
Q
14
15
16
17 18
Mr. Do, if you look above the videos being
13:35:41 13:35:49
13:35:52 13:35:56
watched row, there i s a long white box and after it is
a blue box in which it i S written the word "Search."
Is that where a user can input search terms
to search the YouTube website?
A
Q
19 20 21 22
23
13:35:59
13:36:00 13:36:08
13:36:13
Yes.
And if a user goes to www.youtube.com and is
presented with this Homepage, is -- is this what's
24
25
presented before any particular search is inputted by
the user?
113:36:18
805 Third Avenue! New York! New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26 d5-840f -4 7fb-b b6e -Oc8d87815 bf5
DAVID FELDMA WORLDWIDE, INC.
Page 113
1
DO
13:36:18
2
3
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection to the form¡ calls for
13:36:19 13:36:27
speculation.
THE WITNESS: Could you perhaps rephrase your
question, because I don't -- I don't know if I
4
5
13:36:29
13:36:30 13:36:31
6 7
8
understand it?
MR. DESANCTIS: Oh, sure.
Q It's just that, you know, perhaps it's -- I'm
trying to make too basic of a point.
The Homepage that we've been discussing i is
13:36:32
13 :3'6 :36
9
13:36:45 13:36:55 13:37:01
13:37:03 13:37:04
10
11
12
13
that presented to a user before he or she inputs any
search terms?
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
14 15 16 17
THE WITNESS: It depends.
MR. DESANCTIS: Q. What does it depend on?
13:37:08
13:37:12
A It depends on how the user entered the
YouTube site. We found that a lot of people don't
enter the si te through the Homepage.
13:37:15
13:37:20 13:37:21 13:37:23
is
19
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
20 21
22
23
Q If a user does enter the site through the
Homepage, are they presented with a Homepage like we
see here before entering any search terms of their
13:37:25 13:37:29 13:37:31
13:37:33
own? That i s
that's all I i masking.
24
25
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now, what would happen on the You
13:37:34
Tube
DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE i INC.
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26dS-840f-47fb-bb6e.oc8d87815bf5
Page 114
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13:37:42
2
3
Homepage if the user clicked with his or her mouse on
one of the videos in the row entitled "Videos being
watched right now..."?
13:37:49
13:37:53
4
5
13:37:54
13:37:56 13:37:58
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form; calls for
6 7
8
speculation.
THE WITNESS: The last time I used the
13:38:02 13:38:06
feature - - because I can i t speak for the present day,
the last time I used the feature, the - - the web
9
13:38:09
13:38:14
10
the user i s web browser would then request the - - the
page on the YouTube site on which the user can watch
that video.
11
12 13
14
13:38:17 13:38:18 13:38:18
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Q So is this in the -- is -- are the
pictures -- one, two, three, four -- five in a row,
13:38:21 13:38:27
13:38:29 13:38:34 13:38:36 13:38:36
15
16
these pictures under "Videos being watched right
17
18
now. . . ," are these examples of thumbnails that you and
I were discussing earlier today?
19
20 21 22
23 24
A Yes.
Q Okay. And ordinarily, barring some kind of
bug, by clicking on the thumbnail, the video itself is
then launched and the user can view it; correct?
13:38:41
13:38:46 13:38:51 13:38:52 13:38:55
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form. THE WITNESS: That is the general practice.
25
MR. DESANCTIS: Right.
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f-47fb.bb6e.(c8d87815bf5
DAVID FELDMA WORLDWIDE f INC.
Page iis
1
DO
13:39:00 13:39:02 13:39:06 13:39:10 13:39:11 13:39:21 13:39:25 13:39:35
2
3
Q I'd like you to look down, maybe a quarter of
the way down the page. On the left is in sort of bold
writing, "Featured Videos"; do you see that?
4
5 6
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay. What are "Featured videos"? A "Featured Videos" are those that have been
selected by YouTube editors, I think they're called,
or employees of YouTube and - - to show up on this
7
8
9
13:39:39
13:39:47
13:39:52 13:39:55 13:39:58 13:40:04 13:40:04 13:40:16
10 11 12 13
14 15 16
section.
Q Do you know the criteria that YouTube editors
use to select the featured videos that they select?
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection; vague as to time.
MR. DESANCTIS: At any time.
THE WITNESS: I don't know that.
MR. DESANCTI S : Okay.
17
18 19 20
Q Do you know who at YouTube, let's say early
days 2005 to 2006, was responsible for selecting
featured videos?
A
13:40:21 13:40:27 13:40:36
It
- -
to
the best
of
my recollection,
it
13:40:49
13:40:52 13:40:57 13:40:59 13:41:22
21
22 23 24
was
Q
Maryrose was one such person.
Anyone
A
Q
else that you're aware of? I don't know who else.
What's Maryrose' s
Okay.
last
name?
25
A
Dunton, spelled D-U-N-T-O-N.
805 Third Avenue, New Yorki New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840 f -47fb.bb6e -Oc8d B7815bf5
DAVID FELDMA WORLDWIDE i INC.
Page 116
1
DO
13,41,34
13:41:40
13:41:45
2
3
Q Now, you said that these featured videos are
selected by YouTube employees called "editors."
4
5
Does the user who upload the video get to
13,41:54
dictate whether theirs -- their video will be featured
or not, or is it really at the discretion of the
13,41:56
6 7 8 9
13,41:59
13,42:01
13: 42: 04
YouTube edi tors?
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection as to form.
THE WITNESS: It is at the editors i
13:42:07
13:42:08 13:42:14
10
discretion.
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
11
12 13
Q And do you know how it is determined the
order in which the various featured videos appear at
any given time?
13:42:16 13:42:21 13:42:21
13:42:28
13: 42: 30
14 15
MR. WILLEN: Objection; vague and ambiguous.
THE WITNESS: I don i t know the rules behind
16 17
18
that.
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
13:42:30 13:43:08 13:43:10
13: 43: 18
19 20
Q Do you know what happens, Mr. Do, if a user
were to click on the words "See More Featured Videos"?
21
22 23
24
A Yes.
Q What happens?
13:43:18
13: 43 : 22
A The user is then taken to a separate web page
on the YouTube site which displays other videos that
13:43:27
13:43:33
25
have been featured.
DAVID FELDMA WORLDWIDE i INC.
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705 - 8585
dccc26d5-840f47fb.bb6e..c8d87815bf5
Page 117
i
13:43:37
13:43:40
13: 43: 43
DO
Q
2
3
And would those other videos have been
selected at the discretion of the YouTube employees,
4
5 6
just like the ones we were discussing a moment ago?
13:43:47
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
13:43:49
13:43:49
13: 44: 11
THE WITNESS: I believe so.
7
8
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay. You know, can I just
see this for a minute?
Q
13 :44 :36
13: 44: 43 13 :44 :48 13: 44: 52
9
Okay. And, again, by clicking on - - do you
10 11 12
13
know what happens if a user who's shown this Homepage
checks on either a featured video thumbnail or on the
title of the video?
A
Q
13:44:57 13:44:57 13:45:00 13:45:04 13:45:06 13:45:15 13:45:23
Yes.
14
What happens?
The user is taken to the - - a page on the
15
16
A
YouTube site where they can watch the video.
Q
17
18
Okay. So just to be extra clear, at a very
high level, when a user logs onto www.youtube.com. if
they're not logged on with their own individual user
19 20 21
22 23
13:45:27
13: 45: 32
account, they'll be shown a Homepage like this and can
click on any of these videos if they choose to watch
them; is any of that incorrect?
A
Q
13:45:35
13:45:39
13:45:43
That's a general summary.
24 25
Okay. Yeah, let me see that.
Mr. Do, along with the "See More Featured
13:46:38
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f47fb.bb6e.oc8d87815bf5
DAVID FELDMA WORLDWIDE f INC.
Page 118
1
DO
13:46:47
13: 46: 54
2
3
Videos II text on this Homepage i there i s a but ton that
says "Most viewed." Do you know what "Most Viewed"
13:46:57
4
5 6
is?
13:46:59 13:46:59
13:47:01
A Yes.
Q What is it? Can you please explain.
7
8
A Videos that are - - a set of videos that have
been - - that have had playbacks initiated for them
13:47:14
13:47:18
9
within a certain period of time.
13:47:20
13:47:26
10
11 12 13
14
Q Okay. And what would happen if the user
clicked on the "Most Viewed" button from the
13:47:29 13:47:30
13:47:32 13:47:34 13:47:35 13:47:38
13:47:43
Homepage -MR. WILLEN: Objection; calls for --
MR. DESANCTIS: Q.
if you know?
15
16
MR. WILLEN: Calls for speculation.
THE WITNESS: It would - - the - - the user
17
18
would then be brought to another YouTube web page that
shows the videos that were most viewed within some
period of time, and I don i t know what that period of
time was.
MR. DESANCTI S : Okay.
13:47:52
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
13:47:57 13:47:57 13:48:29 13:48:31 13:48:31
13:48:33
(Document marked Do Exhibit 8
for identif ication. )
MR. DESANCTIS: Let me show you a document
that r S being marked as Do Exhibit 8.
DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE i INC.
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f-47fb-bb6e..c8d87815bf5
Page 121
1
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13:50:54
2 3
4 5 6 7
8
question, Andrea.
13:51:05 13:51:05
(Whereupon, record read by the Reporter as
follows:
"Question: Do you know why YouTube has a
"Most Viewed" page like this?")
13:49:46
13:49:48
13:51:07
13:51:09
MR. WILLEN: Go ahead and answer.
THE WITNESS: I -- I believe this page
actually predated my employment at YouTube.
13:51:16
13:51:19
13:51:24
9
10 11
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay. That doesn i t quite
answer the question.
Q Even if it predated your employment, do you
know why You
13:51:26
12 13
14
13:51:29
13:51:36
13:51:38 13:51:41
Tube has this "Most Viewed Today" page
available to users on its Homepage?
15 16
17
A i did not institute it, and I wasn't involved
on the decision making, so i
reason why it was put there.
I don't know the
13:51:43
13:51:44
18 19
Q Okay. Is "Most Viewed" seen within YouTube
as a measure of a video's popularity?
13:52:00
13:52:03 13:52:04
20
21
MR. WILLEN: Objection; calls for
speculation.
THE WITNESS: It has been used as such.
13:52:15 13:52:16
13:52:40 13:52:45
22 23
24
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Q Okay. Going back to what has been marked as
Do Exhibit 7, this was the Homepage, in the middle
25
DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f-47fb.bb6e-oc8d87815bf5
Page 122
1
DO
13:52:54
2
where we see the "Most Viewed" button, to the right of
that is "Most Discussed."
13:52:56
13:52:58
3
4
Do you know what "most discussed" means?
A
13:53:09
13:53:11 13:53:12
13:53:14
5 6
7 8
I knew at one point, but I don't know if I
know the current def ini tion.
Q
Okay. At what point did you know?
Roughly a year ago.
A
Q
13:53:17
13: 53: 20
9
What did it mean then?
10 11 12 13
14
A
What it meant then was that it was the videos
13:53:25
13:53:31
that had received the most comments by other users.
Q
Okay. And what does it mean to receive
13:53:34 13:53:38
comments by other users? I just don't -- I just want
to be clear about what that term is.
A
13:53:40
13:53:44
15
16
17
On the primary web page on the -- on the
YouTube site where one watches videos, there are
a
13:53:48
13:53:54
user has an option of leaving a comment, a set of words, letters, anything they want there, just
18 19
13:53:57 13:54:02 13:54:05 13:54:07 13:54:10 13:54:11
13:54:18
whatever you can type on your keyboard, and that will
20
21
be displayed somewhere below the video or maybe not if
the comment is too old and it doesn't fit in the
screen, you know, the --
22
23
24
Q Okay.
A -- news comment.
25
Q And next to that is a -- the -- the words
DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5-840f-47fb-bb6e-Oc8d87815bf5
Page 123
1
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13:54:21
2
"Top Favorited."
13:54:24
3
4
Do you know what "Top Favorited" means?
A
Q
13:54:28
Yes.
Wha t does it mean?
13:54:28
13:54:33 13:54:35 13:54:42 13:54:47 13:54:50
13:54:51 13:54:54
5 6
7 8
A
My understanding that
is that it is the
set of videos for which the greatest number of other
users have added it to their list of favorite videos.
Q
9
And what is
what is a list of favorite
10
11
videos?
A
List of favorite videos is a -- it's -- it's
12 13
14
a piece of functionality provided by the YouTube site
that allows a user to -- to, you know, if when they
see a video that -- that they particularly like, to
13:54:57 13:55:03 13:55:08 13:55:11 13:55:14
13:55:20 13:55:24
15 16
17
add it to a list that is stored on the YouTube systems
and then it can be retrieved later on and referred to.
Q
Okay. So is "Top Favorited" and "Most
18 19
Discussed" also ways that YouTube measures the
populari ty of a video?
13:55:26
13:55:27
20
21
MR. WILLEN: Objection; calls for
speculation.
MR. DESANCTIS: Again, that does not call for
speculation. How does that call for speculation?
13:55:29
13:55:31
22 23
24
13:55:33
13:55:34
MR. WILLEN: How does
there's no
25
foundation that he knows what YouTube thinks about the
805 Third Avenue, New York, New York 10022 (212) 705-8585
dccc26d5.840f-47fb.bb6e.Oc8d87815bf5
DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
136
1
DO
2 14:28:23
But as you look at it, this is a document
3 14: 28: 27 numbered GOOOOl-242242 through 242244. The top
4 14:28:42 e-mail, it's a chain of e-mails, the top of which is
5 14:28;46 dated June 15th, 2007.
6 14:29:43 7 14:29:45
A
Q
Okay.
Mr. Do, were you aware of a cor- --
8 14:29:48 correlation in June of 2007 between those videos that
9 14: 29; 55 are most heavily favori ted and whether a video is
10 14: 30: 00 copyrighted?
11
12 13 14
14:30:01
14:30:04
MR. WILLEN:
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
I was
not aware.
14:30;05
MR. DESANCTIS:
Q
Okay.
14:30:09
Let
me
direct
your
10
15
14:30:13 paragraph of 14;30:23 14:30:25 14:30:31 14:30;31
Exhibit
attention to the second under which -- first of all,
CCed on
16
17 18 19
just state for the record, you are e-mail chain, correct, up at the top?
me
A
Q
let
this
Yes.
Okay.
Let me
point
you down
Jack Mc-
to the second
"Jake McGuire
20 21
22
14:30:34 paragraph under
the heading
14:30:38 wrote:" ; and I'm going 14:30:41
A
to ask
a
you who
is Jake
McGuire?
Jake McGuire
is
co-worker
who works
at
23
24 25
14:30:45 YouTube as a software
14:30;50
Q
engineer.
Okay.
Was
he a software engineer
in June
14:30:52 2007?
137
J.
DO
2 14:31:06
3 14:31:06
A
Q
Yes.
I'll just read the whole thing so that a
4 14:31:10 complete version is in the record.
5 14:31:12
6
7
8
"We undeleted" -- this is from Jake
14:31:14 McGuire 14:31:18 time.
--
"We
undeleted --
we
undelete videos all the
R.ight now we queue up the
favorite deletion
14:31:21 when we take videos down, but the queue
is currently
I think
9
14:31:24 about a week behind and getting worse.
this
10 14:31:28 is partly due to generally increased site volume, but
11 14: 31: 31 also get the sense that the volume of copyrighted
12 14: 31: 33 takedowns has increased dramatically and copyrighted
13 14: 31: 36 videos tend to be more heavily favori ted. "
14 14:31:40
Do you know, Mr. Do, whether -- what he's
15 14: 31: 54 referring to when he says "We undelete videos all the
16 14:31:58 time"? Do you know what "undelete videos" means?
17 14:32:05
A
Tha t would be conj ecture on my part. I don't
18 14:32:07 know what he's referring to specifically.
19
14: 32: 08
Q
Okay.
And obviously you
can't get inside
20 21
22
14:32:11 Jake McGuire's head,
14:32:14
let
alone the text of an e-mail,
a
but is "undeleting videos"
term that you and others
14:32:17 use 14:32:19
at
A
Q
YouTube?
No.
23 24 25
14:32:20
Okay.
The
next sentence is "Right
deletion when we
now we
14:32:25 queue up the
favorite
take videos
172
1
DO
2 15:51:27
MR. WILLEN: Yeah, and I think the vagueness
3 15:51:28 is, at least in my own mind, is what the information
4 15:51:30 that we're talking about is, and maybe he understands,
5 15:51:37 but I'm not sure that I do.
6 15:51:38
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay. My -- the earlier
7 15: 51: 46 dialogue that I was having with the witness was about
8
15:51:51 how I could
find out the types of actions that are
9
15:51:59 logged
in the ut -user - action table, and I asked
if
one
10
11
15:52:08 could look
to source code, and you said, yes, but you
a
15:52:14 could
15:52:17
Q
also ask
And my
colleague.
12
question is, which colleague would you
13 15:52:19 ask?
14 15:52:23
A
I wouldn't know exactly, so I would talk to
15 15:52:25 Mike as a first attempt, Mike Solomon.
16 15:53:13
Q
Much earlier today, Mr. Do, you mentioned
17 15:53:23 private videos. What are private videos?
18 15:53:29 19 15:53:35
A
Q
What time frame are you referring to?
You can choose any time frame you like. I--
20 15:53:38 I'm just -- right now, I'm just talking -- I'm just
21 15:53:42 asking in a general sense how it -- how, in general,
22 15: 53: 45 is a private video different from a public video, and
23 15: 53: 48 then we can drill down on details?
24 15:53:51
A
Okay. Generally, private videos are videos
25 15:53:56 that at the time of -- of upload, the user specified
1 DO
2 15:54:02 as, you know, wanting to be private.
3 15:54:04
4
173
What that means is that the -- not every
15:54:10
15:54:14 15:54:17 15:54:21 15:54:25
single user
user
on
on
the
YouTube
site, not --
an
arbitrary
5 6
7
8
the YouTube
site
may
not be able to see the
video.
They can only see the video
if
they had a --
if
the uploader of the video chose to allow
it
Let
for
that user.
Q
9
15:54:26
15:54:45
Okay.
And how many
--
I'm
sorry.
me
--
10
let
me go
back for a second.
11 15:54:51
Did I -- what happened? Can you hear me now?
12 15: 55: 02 Do you want to go off the record for a minute?
13 15:55:04
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It's on.
14 15:55:05
15 15:55:09
Q
MR. DESANCTIS: You good now?
I just want to go back, you know, for a
16 15: 55: 12 minute to the -- what we were talking about in foreign
17 15:55:15 terms of could we look to the code or would you ask a
18 15: 55: 18 colleague for -- to determine what information or what
19 15: 55: 23 actions are logged in the fields we were discussing,
20 15: 55: 27 in the tables we were discussing wi thin the logging
21 15: 55: 30 database.
22 15: 55: 30
My question is, you stated that not all
23 15: 55: 36 changes are reflected in the code, and that i s why you
24 15:55:39 would -- could also go to a colleague -25 15:55:42
A
Yes.
1 DO
2 16:04:46 that a private video is different from a public video?
3
4
180
16:04:50 16:04:53 YouTube?
16:04:54
Let
me
start this
way:
Are they both on
5
MR. WILLEN:
THE WITNESS:
Obj ection
to the form.
6
7 8
16:04:58 16:05:00 16:05:00
Q
Yes.
Okay.
how
MR.
DESANCTIS:
And so how
--
is --
how
is
a
private
9
16:05:03 video
different
from a
public video?
only be
10 11
16:05:07
A
Private video can
watched by the
16:05:11 YouTube
users that the uploader of the video has
12
13
16:05:17
authorized to view
Q
it.
is
16:05:21
Okay.
And
it
true that a public video can
14
15
16:05:30 be viewed by anybody who
visits the
a
YouTube.com site?
16:05:45
16:05:45
A
Q
No.
16
17 18
Okay.
Who
can't see
video --
who
cannot
16:05:49 see a
16:05:59 16:06:05
A
Q
public video
on YouTube. com?
indicated as
If
--
a
video is
being racy --
19 20
Okay.
16:06:06
A
and the user does not
affirm that they are
21
22 23 24
16:06:09 above 16:06:12
Q
the legal age, they cannot watch the video.
Okay.
Any other scenarios?
video has
16:06:26 16:06:34
A
If the
been
-- if the playback -has prevented
if
the uploader of the video has not
25
16:06:42 or has
specified that
they only want
the video to be
1 DO
2 16:06:47 playable in certain countries, and you're not in
181
3 16:06:51 and the viewer is not in one of those countries, that
4 16:06:55 they will not be able to view the video.
5 6
7 8 9
16:06:57
Q
Okay.
By
contrast,
you
testified
a mo-
--
a
16:07:09 moment ago 16:07:12 the YouTube
that
a
private video can
only be watched by
users that the uploader of the video has
16:07:15
16: 07: 17
authorized to view
Is there
a
it.
10
16:07:20 16:07:25
16:07:30
11
12
limit on the number of users that the upload of the -- uploader of a video can authorize to view a private video?
A
Q
Yes.
What
13
14
16:07:30
16:07:38
is -why
what
is that limit,
we
and
if
dates
are relevant,
don't
say, you know, at the
-- at
15 16
17
16:07:41 the time you went on
leave from YouTube?
16:07:44
A
The
last
I
time I saw, and I
--
I did not check
16:07:46
16:07:48 16:07:48
it
right before
Q
-leave,
18
Sure.
19
A
Q
-25.
\oent on
was 25.
20
21 22
16:07:50
16:07:55
16:07:57
Are you aware of any time
in YouTube's
di fferent
history whether that
number was something
23
24
16:07:59 than 25 or has
16:08:08 16:08:12
A
Q
it
always been 25?
It
has not always been 25.
What
25
Okay.
else
do you
recall
it
being?
182
1
DO
2 16:08:17
A
I recall that earlier on there -- I don't
3 16: 08: 23 believe that there was a limit to the number of users.
4 5
16:08:30
Q
What time
period
was
there
no
limit to the
16:08:33 number of
users?
not remember the exact timing.
was no
6 7
8
16:08:35
16:08:37
A
Q
I do
If there
limit to the
be
number of
users,
16:08:41
in what Sense would
it
private?
9 16:08:44
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection to the form; calls for
10 16:08:46 speculation. I'm not sure it's even a question.
11 16:08:55
12
THE WITNESS: The -- it was still the case
16:09:01 16:09:04
that for the private videos that the user had to
specify
who
13
14
had access to the video.
So a
user that
16:09:08 was not on 16:09:12 watch
that
list
of
authorized users could not
15 16
17
18
the video.
MR.
16:09:13 16:09:41
16:09:48
Q
DESANCTIS:
I see.
I asked you what time
period
you
was
there
no
do
limit to the
number of
users, and
said, "I
not
19
16:09:51 remember the
16:09:53
exact timing. "
20
21 22
Do you remember approximately what the timing
16:09:55 was?
16:10:11
A
Q
Maybe in -- some time in 2007.
23 24
16:10:15
16:10:18
So from the -- are you saying that from
from the genesis of YouTube through some time
the
25 16:10:21 in 2007, there was no limit?
183
1
DO
2 16:10:24
3 16:10:25
A
Q
I'm not saying that.
Okay. What are you saying with respect to 4 16: 10: 29 your estimate of the time when there was no limit?
A
5 16:10:34
I'm saying that between the time that I first
the feature of private videos to some time,
6 16:10:36 saw the
7 16:10:42 I believe, in 2007, there was no limit-8
16:10:46 16:10:46
16:10:47 16:10:49 of
Q
Okay.
9
A
Q
to the users.
Do
10
11
you
recall
when you
first
saw
the feature
private videos?
A
Q
12
16:10:57 16:10:58
It
Do
was
--
I can't pinpoint
it
exactly.
13 14 15
16:11:00 videos was 16:11:03 or whether
recall whether the feature of private added after you became a YouTube employee
you
it
was
already
there when you became a
16
16:11:05 YouTube employee?
A
17 16:11:14
I believe it was there around the time I
18 16:11:16 started.
19
16:11:17
Q
Okay.
When a
user uploads
a
video, can he or
20 21
16:11:30 she 16:11:33 16:11:36
16:11:37
indicate at that time whether he wants the video
A
Q
to be public or private?
Yes.
Can he
22
23
24
or she -- and -- and -- and is that
16:11:47
action logged anywhere?
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
25 16:11:51
1 DO
2 16:46:24 point in time, or are you just saying not now,
3 16:46:26 obviously, because you're on leave?
4 16:46:28 A
Q
196
1'm saying prior to my becoming a manager.
Prior to you becoming a manager.
5 16:46:31
6 16:46:33
7 16:46:37
And when did you become a manager?
A
It was around the time frame of -- it was
8 16:46:43 around the time frame of the acquisition, late 2006,
9 16:46:46 early 2007, I think.
10 16:46:47
11 12
Q
Okay. And since
since then, have you
16;46:52
16:46:55
16:46:59
written any code or have frequently?
A
Q
you
just simply
done
it
less
13
14 15
I've written
Okay.
Do
some code.
16:47:00
I assume
correctly that
you
read
16:47;09 Python 16:47;11 16:47:11
A
Q
--
you
read and write Python?
16
17 18
Yes.
Okay.
And what
--
can you
just explain
what
16;47:14 Python
16: 47: 14
is.
Python
Okay.
19
A
Q
is
And
a computer programming
language.
20
21 22 23 24 25
16;47:20
16:47:24
maj ori ty
is that the language in which the of the code that runs the YouTube site is
16:47:27 wri tten in?
16:47:29
A
Q
Yes.
Okay.
16:47:29
16:47:40 / / /
1 DO
2 16:50:44 plaintiffs in this lawsuit?
3 16:50:45
A
199
I am not aware of what production has
4 16: 50: 46 occurred.
5 16:50:47
6
Q
Okay. Are you aware of any -- are -- are you
16:50:50 aware of anyone 16:50:56 16:50:59
16:51:00 16:51:04
else extracting source code for
not heard of
Let
me
7
8
production in this case?
A
Q
I have
it.
your
9
Okay.
direct
attention to page
Now,
10
11
three of what's
in
a
A
Q
been marked Exhibit 13.
this is
16:51:19
file
named
at the top
"search. py" ;
correct?
12 16:51:27
Yes.
Okay. And what is the function of the --
13 16:51:27
14 16:51:30 what -- what, in a very general sense, is the function
15 16:51:36 of the file entitled "search.py," if you -- if you
16 16: 51: 39 know?
17 16:51:40
A
The general function was, prior to YouTube
18 16: 51: 45 integrating with Google Search, to provide search
19 16: 51: 50 functional ities in response to user search queries.
20 16:51:54
21 22
Q
Okay. Did you write any of the code in
I may have
16:51:57
search.py file?
A
Q
16:52:02
written fragments of
me
it.
to page
23
24
16:52:04
16:52:08
Okay.
Let
direct your attention
sign
three.
In the middle of the page, approximately the
25
16:52:12 middle,
there's
a number
followed by the word
200
1
DO
216:52:17
3 16:52:20 that?
4 16:52:20 5 16:52:20
A
Q
and it continues; do you -- do you see
Yes.
Does the number sign indicate that this is a
6 16:52:23 comment or does it indicate something different?
7
8 9
16:52:26
16:52:27
A
Q
It indicates
Okay.
And
the comment.
the comment is
16:52:32 16:52:37
10 11 12
16:52:40
16:52:43
13
14
15
16:52:45
16:52:48 a
Mr. Do,
are you familiar with the concept of
in relation to the search function?
A
Q
16:52:54 16:52:55
16:52:57 what
I am
generally familiar.
Can you
16
17
18
Okay.
describe, in general terms,
it
A
means
-a
what a
-a
what a
is.
16:53:00 16:53:10 16:53:13
16:53:31
It is
Okay.
--
it is
19
20
21
22 23 24
Q
And
the comment continue
comment
well,
the
I
--
I
just read the
that is not
And
that is there in
some
16:53:35
the middle of page three.
Below
that begins
16:53:38 some
live
A
Q
code
a comment;
correct?
16:53:41
16:53:41
Yes.
Okay.
25
the
first line, is it correct that
201
1
DO
2
3
16:53:56 what the
first line is
doing
is indicating
that_
16:54:01
16:54:04 16:54:07 16:54:14 16:54:14
A
Q
4
5 6
7
8
No.
Okay.
16:54:16
16:54:22 16:54:27
A
is it doing? It is taking -What
9
10 11
12
16:54:30 16:54:33
16:54:37
16:54:37
A
Q
?
13
14
Yes.
Okay.
And what does
mean?
15
16:54:43 16:54:45 16:54:55
16:55:28
A
I need to look back I have what
at the code to
make
sure
16
17
18
that
Q
it
--
actually means.
Okay. Okay.
I
A
I see the
line of
code
that --
19
16:55:30
16:55:31
that calculates
Q
it.
So
20 21
22
Okay.
--
so what
is
an
16:55:34 what does a
16:55:36
16:55:42 16:55:47
A
A_is -- is
Olmy.
rating
mean?
a
-- is something that's
23 24 25
16:55:49
Q
202
1
DO
2
3 4
16:55:51
A
Q
And
I
it's
a
a
16:55:52 16:55:53
see.
So a
--
a
user
who
is other than the
?
5
16:55:55 uploader can watch a video, and when they watch a
6 16: 55: 58 video, they can
7
8
16:56:00
16:56:01 16:56:04
16:56:07
A
Q
Yes, they have the option.
Okay.
And what
13
this is referring to
on page
9
three of Exhibit
Yes.
is the
of a -- of a
10
particular video; correct?
A
Q
11 16:56:09 12 16:56:09
Okay. We talked about what happens if the
Then, we i re
13 16: 56: 15
14 16:56:19 told, are we not, that if the
15 16:56:21
16 16:56:27 17 16:56:29
A
Q
Yes.
Okay. I just want to make sure I'm reading
18 16:56:29
19 16:56:34 this correctly.
20 21
22 23
16:56:35 16:56:39 see,
16:56:44
Now, if you go down several lines, do you
? Do you see that line?
A
Q
16:56:51
16:56:51
Yes.
Okay.
Is -- iS that indicating that if the
24 25
16:56:56
1 DO
2 16:57:04 3 16:57:13 4 16:57:13
5 6
7
8
203
A
Q
Yes.
Okay. And if the video has been II
16:57:15 16:57:21 16:57:24 16:57:24
correct?
A
Q
Yes.
Is that an
?
?
Do
you know
if
9
16:57:33
16:57:34
those are
10
A It is
Q Okay. That's all I have on that; okay.
Can I take it?
11
12
16:57:39
16:58:27 16:58:28
13
14
15
MS. MAGUIRE: Yeah.
(Documen t mar ked Do Exhib i t 14
16:58:30 16:58:30 16:58:30
for identification.)
16
MR. DESANCTIS: Let me show you, Mr. Do, what
17 16: 58: 33 has been marked as Do Exhibit 14. Copies of this are
18 16: 58: 42 being given to counseL.
19 16:59:17
Q
This is a multi-page document numbered
20 16:59:19 G00001-2581772 through 2 -- 2581805.
21 16:59:39
And the first page is an e-mail from Mike
22 16:59:55 Solomon to Cuong Doi dated June 15th, 2007, and
23 16: 59: 59 attached to it is what appears to be a presentation of
24 17:00:04 slides.
25 17:00:04
Mr. Do, are -- are you familiar with this
1 DO
2 17: 18: 18 video servers i we, at some point later on, did not
215
3 17: 18: 25 copy the original file across both of the machines.
4 17: 18: 28 The -- the original file did not reside on both video
5 17:18:31 servers.
6 17:18:37
Q
I see.
7 17:18:37
8
So if I understand correctly, and I'm just
17:18:39
trying
to make
sure I do, at this
would be
later point in time,
a
9
17:18:45
17:18:53
17:18:57
there would -- there
trans coded
the original,
10 11
file,
and a copy of the transcoded
file,
for
a
A
Q
total of three; is that correct?
That was generally the case.
12 17:19:00
13 17:19:01
Okay. And what time period was that the
14 17: 19: 06 practice?
15
17:19:08
A
Q
I don't know when
Okay.
it started.
the practice
know,
16
17
17:19:10
17:19:12
Is
it still
was
it
still
A
the practice, as far as you
at the time
18
17:19:14 you went on leave?
I do not know what we did with the original
19 17:19:19
20 17:19:22 video files at that point.
21 17:19:23
Q
Okay. Was there a -- did there ever come a
22 17: 19: 35 time when additional transcoded copies were made, for
23 17:19:40 example, to H.264 or -- or other formats other than
24 17:19:50 flash?
25 17:19:51
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
216
1
DO
2 17:19:55
THE WITNESS: Later on, at some point, we
3 17:19:58 introduced, you know, H.264 video format.
4 17:20:04
5 17:20:04
Q
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
Did you introduce any other formats? "You"
6 17:20:07 meaning YouTube, not you personally.
7 17:20:14
8 17:20:14
A
Q
Yes.
Which? Can you identify them, please.
I believe that the system was modified to
9 17:20:15
A
10 17:20:18 support something called the "3GPP standard."
11 17:20:29
Q
Okay.
I think those were the three standards.
12 17:20:41
A
13 17:20:42 Q Okay. If initially you were -- YouTube was
14 17:20:45 transcoding all videos to a copy in flash format, why
15 17: 20: 54 did it -- why did YouTube begin making copies
16 17: 20: 58 trans
coded in these other formats as well, if you
17 17:21:01 know?
18 17:21:02
MR. WILLEN: Obj ection¡ lacks foundation.
19 17:21:03
THE WITNESS: I was not part of those
20 17: 21: 06 decisions.
21 17:21:07
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
22 17:21:10 Q Do you know what the copies -- what
23 17: 21: 12 applications copies in -- in these other formats
24 17:21:16 serve?
25 17:21:17
MR. WILLEN: Objection to the form.
217
1
DO
2 17:21:19
THE WITNESS: As far as I know, the 3GPP
3 17: 21: 25 standard was for some set of mobile phones.
4 17:21:29
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
THE WITNESS: And the H.264 format was served
5 17:21:30
6 17: 21: 35 primarily to -- I believe, to the Apple TV.
7 17:21:35
8 17:21:47
Q
MR. DESANCTIS: Okay.
So let's take a situation where a copy is
9 17:21:52 made from the original into H.264 format.
10 17:21:59
11 12 13
So, at that point, there's an original and
17:22:02
there's
a copy
in H.264 format.
an
Would YouTube
also
only
17:22:08 have made an
--
additional copy in flash format, or
17:22:14 were
there instances where
it
only
YouTube
14
15
17:22:17 made a copy
in H.264 format?
Obj ection
17:22:20
17:22:22 time.
MR. WILLEN:
to form; vague as to
16
17 18 19
17:22:23
17:22:27
THE WITNESS:
I don't know the answer
for
certain.
MR.
Q
17:22:30
17:22:30
DESANCTIS:
Okay.
new
20
What I'm
getting at is, were these
21 22 23
24 25
17:22:33 formats
additive or did they replace flash for certain
videos,
17:22:36 types of
17:22:38 17:22:39 17:22:45 of were
if
you know?
MR. WILLEN:
THE WITNESS:
Objection to the form.
Generally, the ones that I
know
-- supplemented the flash video file.
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