Schoolcraft v. The City Of New York et al

Filing 409

DECLARATION of Matthew J. Koster in Support re: 408 Reply Memorandum of Law in Support of Motion. Document filed by Lillian Aldana-Bernier. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit Exhibit B, # 3 Exhibit Exhibit C Part 1, # 4 Exhibit Exhibit C Part 2, # 5 Exhibit Exhibit C Part 3, # 6 Exhibit Exhibit C Part 4)(Koster, Matthew)

Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 1 of 100

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Page 201
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

MR. CALLAN:
Didn't she just say
MR. CALLAN: Didn't she just say

3
3

she didn't speak to Dr. Lamstein?
she didn't speak to Dr. Lamstein?

4

Objection.
Objection.

5

Q.
Q.

Did you ever tell Dr. Lamstein
ever tell Dr. Lamstein

6
6

that Mr. Schoolcraft did not need
that Mr. Schoolcraft
need

7
7

psychiatric care?
psychiatric care?

8
9

MR. CALLAN: Are you asking if
MR. CALLAN:
Are you asking if
she used telepathy since she didn't
she used telepathy since she didn't

10
10

speak to the doctor?
speak to the doctor?

11

Q.
Q.

Did you say that to -say that to

_

12
12

A.
A.

I haven't spoken to Dr.
I
spoken to Dr.

IN)

13
13

Lamstein.
Lamstein.

14
14

Q.
Q.

So if Dr. Lamstein said that
So if Dr. Lamstein said that

15
15

you told her that Mr.
not
you told her that Mr. Schoolcraft did not

16
16

need psychiatric care, she
need psychiatric care, she would not be

17
17

telling the truth; is that
telling the truth; is that what you're

18
18

saying?
saying?

19
19

MR. CALLAN:
Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the

20
20

form of the question.
of the question.

21

A.
A.

You are asking me if Dr.
You are
me if Dr.

22
22

Lamstein tells me
he
Lamstein tells me that he doesn't need

23
23

admission, am I going to change my mind?
admission,
I
to change
mind?

24
24
>

25
25

Q.
Q.

No.
No.

If Dr. Lamstein testified
If Dr. Lamstein testified

that you told Dr. Lamstein that Mr.
that you told Dr. Lamstein that Mr.

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 2 of 100

Page 202
Page 202
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

Schoolcraft did not need psychiatric
Schoolcraft did not need

3

admission, would she be lying?
admission,
she
lying?

4

MR. CALLAN: Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the

5

form of the question.
form of the question.

6

A.
A.

7
8
9
10
11
12

Y)

This is the first time I'm
This is the first time I'm

hearing about Dr. Lamstein.
hearing about Dr. Lamstein.
Q.
Q.

Did you ever hear the name Dr.
you ever hear the name Dr.

Lamstein before?
Lamstein before?
A.
A.

No, the first time I'm hearing
No, the first time I'm

about Lamstein.
about Lamstein.
Q.
Q.

you ever speak to anybody
Did you ever speak to anybody

13

from the internal affairs bureau of the
from the internal affairs
of the

14

police department?
police department?

15

A.
A.

me?
Excuse me?

16

Q.

ever speak to anybody
Did you ever speak to anybody

17

the internal affairs bureau of the
from the internal affairs bureau of the

18

police department?
police department?

19

A.
A.

No.
No.

20

Q.
Q.

Were you the admitting
Were you the admitting

21

physician for Mr. Schoolcraft to the
physician for Mr. Schoolcraft to the

22

psych emergency room?
psych
room?

23

In the
room, yes.
In the emergency room, yes.

24

)

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

Do you know the name of the
Do you know the name of the

25

person that
Mr. Schoolcraft in?
person that brought Mr. Schoolcraft in?

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Page 203
Page 203
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

A.
A.

No, I don't.
No, I don't.

3

Q.
Q.

any
Did you prescribe any

4

medication for Mr. Schoolcraft?
medication for Mr. Schoolcraft?

A.
A.

5

Risperdal, 0.5 milligrams.
Risperdal, 0.5 milligrams.

6

That was written by the resident, but I
That was written by the resident,
I

7

agreed; Risperdal 0.5 milligrams twice a
agreed; Risperdal 0.5 milligrams twice a

8

day.
day.

9

Q
Q.

What is that?
is that?

10

A
A.

That's
antipsychotic.
That's an antipsychotic.

11

Q
Q.

Antipsychotic?
Antipsychotic?

12

A.
A.

Paranoia, psychosis.
Paranoia, psychosis.

13

Q
Q.

What was the dosage?
was the dosage?

14

A.
A.

It's 0.5.
It's 0.5.

15

Q.
Q.

What was his weight?
was his weight?

16

A.
A.

Weight, 109 kilograms.
Weight, 109 kilograms.

17

Q.
Q.

the dosage that you
And the dosage that you

18

prescribed, is that
introductory dose?
prescribed, is that an introductory dose?

19

MR. LEE:
Objection to form.
MR. LEE: Objection to form.

20

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

21

Q.
Q.

So it's
really therapeutic
So it's not really therapeutic

22
23
24
25

at that level, correct?
at that level, correct?
A.
A.

It's twice a day.
It's twice a day.

It
be
It should be

therapeutic.
therapeutic.
Q.
Q.

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When you say "it should be
When you say "it should
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 4 of 100

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Page 204
Page 204

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2
3
4
5
6

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
therapeutic," what do you mean?
therapeutic," what do you mean?
A.
A.

milligrams twice a day, 1 milligram, yes.
milligrams twice a day, 1 milligram, yes
Q.
Q.

9
10

How long does it take before it
How long does it take before it

becomes effective to become therapeutic?
becomes effective to become therapeutic?

7
8

If you are getting 0.5
If you are getting 0.5

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN:
Objection.
Q.
Q.

At the dosage that you
At the dosage that

prescribed at the weight that Mr.
prescribed at the weight that Mr.
Schoolcraft was?
Schoolcraft was?

11

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

12

A.
A.

Most likely a week.
Most likely a week.

13

Q.
Q.

And when people come in and are
when people come in and are

14

dangerous, have you
dangerous, have you prescribed medication

15

that they have
to
that they have rejected and refused to

16

take?
Has that ever happened to you
take? Has that ever happened to you

17

where a patient refuses to take medicine
where a patient refuses to take

18

and you have
the
is a
and you have decided the patient is a

19

danger to themselves or others?
danger to themselves or others?

20

A.
A.

Before
start any medication,
Before we start any medication,

21

you describe it with the
which
you describe it with the patient which

22

you need
consent
you talk
you need informed consent and you talk

23

about the side effects, the consequences,
about the side effects, the consequences,

24

and the benefits of taking or not taking
and the benefits of taking or not taking

25

medication.
medication.

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 5 of 100

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Page
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1
2

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

Q.
Q.

Have you ever
a
Have you ever medicated a

3

patient against their will
they
patient against their will because they

4

were a danger to themselves or others?
were a danger to themselves or others?

5

A.
A.

They are
danger to
They are a danger to

6

themselves, if they are agitated, they
themselves, if they are agitated, they

7

are violent, yes, I
someone
are violent, yes, I medicated someone

8

against their will.
against their will.

9

Q.
Q.

How did
do that?
How did you do that?

10

A.
A.

If they are
-- if the
If they are becoming -- if the

11

emergency room is being
and the
emergency room is being chaotic and the

12

patient -- first you speak
the
patient -- first you speak with the

13

patient and you
to redirect the
patient and you try to redirect the

14

patient, try to calm him down. If he
If he
patient, try to calm him down.

15

doesn't agree or if he
listen to
doesn't agree or if he doesn't listen to

16

your redirection, then you start telling
your redirection, then you start telling

17

him that you are
to medicate him.
him that you are going to medicate him.

18

Q.
Q.

And physically, how do you do
And physically, how do you do

19

that, how do you medicate the
who
that, how do you medicate the person who

20

resists taking the medicine?
resists taking the medicine?

21

A.
A.

We give them intramuscular.
We give them intramuscular.

22

Q.
Q.

Someone will restrain them and
Someone will restrain them and

23

give them a shot, correct?
give them a shot, correct?

24

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

25

Q.
Q.

You did
have the opinion
You did not have the opinion

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 6 of 100

Page 206

/

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

that Mr. Schoolcraft needed to go through
that Mr. Schoolcraft
to go through

3

the process of being medicated against
the process of being medicated against

4

his will, correct?
his will, correct?

5

A.
A.

At the time in the ER, at that
At the time in the ER, at that

6

point in time when he was in the ER, he
point in time when he was in the ER, he

7

was not given
was not given any intramuscular
intramuscular

8

injection.
injection.

9

Q.
Q.

Mr. Schoolcraft refused to take
Mr. Schoolcraft refused to take

10

the medication that you prescribed,
the medication that you prescribed,

11

correct?
correct?

12

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

13

Q.
Q.

And
not go through this
And you did not go through this

14

process where you
through
him
process where you went through having him

15

restrained and giving
the shot,
restrained and giving him the shot, you

16

didn't go through that process with him,
didn't go through that process with him,

17

correct?
correct?

18

A.
A.

No, I didn't.
No, I didn't.

19

Q.
Q.

Because you didn't
it
Because you didn't deem it

20

necessary to do that to Mr. Schoolcraft,
necessary to do that to Mr. Schoolcraft,

21

correct?
correct?

22

A.
A.

At the point he was in the ER,
At the point he was in the ER,

23

he was not
so I
not have to
he was not agitated so I did not have to

24

give
an injection.
give him an injection.

25

Q.
Q.

212-267-6868

He wasn't such a threat to
He wasn't such a threat to
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 7 of 100

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1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

anybody that he was going to need that
anybody that he was going to need that

3
3

type of restraint and then injection,
type of restraint and then injection,

4

correct?
correct?

5
6
6
7
7
8

A.
A.

He was
at the time
He was not agitated at the time

so I didn't have to inject him.
so I didn't have to
him.
Q.
Q.

You indicated that you wanted a
You indicated that you
a

second opinion earlier, correct?
second opinion earlier, correct?

9

A.
A.

10
10

Q.
Q.

.

Yes.
Yes.

Did you write a request for a
you write
request for a

\
I

11

second opinion or a consult?
second opinion or a consult?

j

12
12

»fl)

13
13

associate chairman
to
the
associate chairman and present to him the

14
14

case, and I spoke with
he agreed
case, and I spoke with him and he agreed

15
15

with me.
with me.

16
16
17
17

A.
A.

Q.
Q.

No, I just have to call my
No, I just have to call my

Who is the
Who is the doctor that you
that you

called?
called?

18
18

A.
A.

chairman.
Associate chairman.

19
19

Q.
Q.

Who is the associate chairman
Who is the associate chairman

20
20

that you spoke with?
that you spoke with?

21

Dr. Dhar, D—H—A—R.
Dr. Dhar, D-H-A-R.

22
22

Q.
Q .

Dr. Dhar is a psychiatrist?
Dr. Dhar is a psychiatrist?

23
23

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

24
24

)

A.
A.

Q .
Q.

Dr.
is his associate
Dr. Dhar is his associate

25
25

chairman. What is that?
chairman.
What is that?

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 8 of 100

Page 208
208
1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2
2

A.
A.

Next to the chairman.
Next to the chairman.

3
3

Q.
Q.

Who is the chairman?
Who is the chairman?

4

A.
A.

Dr. Vivek.
Dr. Vivek.

5

Q.
4•

Can you spell that?
Can you spell that?

6
6

A.
A.

V-I-V-E-K.
V-I-V-E-K.

7
7

Q.
Q.

When you say you spoke to him,
When you say you spoke to him,

8

did you speak to him on the phone or
did you speak to him on the phone or you

9
9

don't recall?
don't recall?

10
10
11
12
12

)

A.
A.

Call
and I
Call him downstairs and I

presented the case to him.
presented the case to him.

Q.
Q.

When you say "you presented the
say "you
the
When

13
13

case to him," did you tell
about the
case to him," did you tell him about the

14
14

history that you took?
history that you took?

15
15

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

16
16

Q.
Q.

Do you remember actually
Do you remember actually having

17
17

this conversation, or is that your
this conversation, or is that your

18
8

standard practice that you described?
standard practice that you described?

19
19

A.
A.

When it's a decision, like,
decision, like,
When it's

20
20

when a decision has to be made wherein -—when a decision has to be made

21

I would say it's standard practice.
I would say it's standard practice.

22
22
23
23

Q.
Q.

You
recall actually
You don't recall actually

having the conversation?
having the conversation?

24
24
)

A.
A.

I recall that I spoke to him.
I recall that I spoke to him.

25
25

Q.
Q.

You recall in this case
You recall in this case

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Page 209
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1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
speaking to him?
speaking to him?

3

A.
A.

Speaking to him.
Speaking to him.

4

Q.
Q.

What time of day did you speak
did
speak
What time

5

to him?
to him?

6

A.
A.

That was the afternoon.
That was the afternoon.

7

Q.
Q.

is the associate chairman
And is the associate chairman

8

the person that you generally call to get
the person that you generally call to get

9

a second opinion for
the
a second opinion for admission under the

10

Mental Hygiene Law?
Mental Hygiene Law?

11

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

12

Q.
Q.

Why do you recall this
Why do you recall this

13

particular incident with regard to Mr.
particular incident with regard to Mr.

14

Schoolcraft when you got the second
Schoolcraft when you got the second

15

opinion:
Is there anything that brings
opinion: Is there anything that brings

16

it to
mind?
it to your mind?

17

A.
A.

I recall that
every
I recall that because every

18

police officer that comes to our
police officer that comes to our

19

hospital, I try to
second opinion.
hospital, I try to get second opinion.

20

Q.
Q.

When you say "every police
When you say "every

21

officer," how
have
had
officer," how often have you had police

22

officers brought to your hospital to the
officers brought to your hospital to the

23

ward?
emergency psych ward?

24

A.
A.

I
not recall
many.
I could not recall how many.

25

Q.
Q.

Hundreds?
Hundreds?

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)

Page 210
210
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

A.
A.

No.
No.

3
3

Q.

Dozens?
Dozens?

4

A.
A.

No.
That's why it came back in
No. That's why it came back in

5

memory because it's not 100, but I cannot
memory because it's not 100, but I

6
6

recall how many.
recall how many.

7
7

.
Q•

Q

More than ten?
More than ten?

8

A.
A.

I
remember.
I don't remember.

9
9

Q .
Q•

Less than 50?
Less than 50?

10
10

A.
A .

I
remember.
I would not remember.

11

Q .
Q.

On each of these occasions,
On each of these occasions,

12
12

were they brought in by other members of
were they brought in by other members of

13
13

the New York City Police Department?
the New York City Police Department?

14
14

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

15
15

MR.
MR. RADOMISLI: What?
RADOMISLI: What?

16
16

THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Yes.

17
17
18
18

Q.
Q.

On each of those occasions, did
On each of those occasions, did

you admit those patients to the
ER?
you admit those patients to the psych ER?

19
19

A.
A.

To the
ER, yes.
To the psych ER, yes.

20
20

Q.
Q.

On each of those occasions, did
On each of those occasions, did

21

the associate
agree with
the associate chairman agree with your

22
22

opinion to admit these police officers
opinion to admit these police officers

23
23

under the —under the --

24
24

J

25
25

MR. CALLAN:
Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the
question.
don't know that she said
question. II don't know that she said

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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

she consulted with the associate
she consulted with the

3
3

chairman on every case.
chairman on
case.

4
5
5

MR. SUCKLE: II will clarify.
MR. SUCKLE:
will clarify.
Q.
Q.

For each of those police
For each
those

6
6

officers that were admitted under the
officers that were
the

7
7

Mental Hygiene Law, did you consult with
Mental Hygiene Law,
consult with

8

a second opinion?
a second opinion?

9

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

10
10

Q.
Q.

In each of those police
In each of those

11
12
12

[N
VJ

officers, did the person, the doctor you
officers, did the person, the
consulted with, agree with your opinion
consulted with, agree
opinion

13
13

to admit under the Mental Hygiene Law?
to admit under the Mental
Law?

14
14

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

15
15

Q.
Q.

And these times when police
these times

16
16

officers were admitted under the Mental
officers were
under the Mental

17
17

Hygiene Law,
some of them occur
Hygiene Law, did some of them occur

18
18

before Mr. Schoolcraft's admission?
before Mr. Schoolcraft's admission? I
I

19
19

mean in the year
mean in the year or months beforehand.
months beforehand.

20
20

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

21

Q.
Q.

And did the police officers
the police officers

22
22
23
23

you were talking about: Did they come
you were talking about: Did they come

24
24
J

come from any particular precinct that
come from any particular precinct that

from the 81st Precinct, if you know?
the 81st Precinct, if you know?

25
25

A.
A.

212-267-6868

I would not know that.
I
that.
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2
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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

Do you know, did
Do you know, did you get to see
get to see

3
3

any of the police officers on a recurring
any of the police officers
a recurring

4

basis that would bring these police
basis that would
these police

5

officer in; in other words, the police
officer in; in other words, the

6
6

officers that would
the other
officers that would bring the other

7
7

police officer in for evaluation, did you
police officer in for evaluation, did you

8

see those police officers more than once?
see those police officers
than once?

9

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to

10
10

form.
form.

11

A.
A.

. 3

12
12

I

13
13

What do you mean more than
than
What do

once?
once?
Q.
Q.

Like in this case we know that
Like in this case we know that

14
14

Sergeant James
some role in Mr.
Sergeant James played some role in Mr.

15
15

Schoolcraft's history, correct?
Schoolcraft's history, correct?

16
16

MR . SHAFFER:
Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

17
17

A.
A.

That's in the record.
That's in the record.

18
18

Q.
Q.

Do
Do you know if Sergeant James
if Sergeant James

19
19

was involved in any of the other police
the other
was involved in any

20
20

officers who were admitted to Jamaica
officers who were admitted to Jamaica

21

Hospital who you admitted
Hospital who you admitted under the
the

22
22

Mental
Law?
Mental Hygiene Law?

23
23

24
24
9

25
25

A.
A.

I
how Mr. James look
I don't know how Mr. James look

like.
like.
Q.
Q.

212-267-6868

Were there any police officers,
Were there any police officers,
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1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

sergeants, lieutenants who you can
sergeants, lieutenants who you can

3

identify who would bring police officers
identify who would bring police officers

4

to Jamaica Hospital on a recurring basis?
to Jamaica Hospital on a recurring basis?

5
6

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI:
Objection to
form.
form.

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

7
8
9

Q.
Q.

That you know either by sight
That you
either by sight

or name?
or name?

10

A.
A.

No, I wouldn't.
No, I wouldn't.

11

Q.
Q.

When the
When the police officers are
officers are

12
13

New York City Police Department, do you
New York City Police Department, do

14

always have the same concerns that you
always have the same concerns that

15

describe for us about the police officer
describe for us about the police officer

16

T

brought in by the other members of the
brought in by the other members of the

having access to weapons?
having access to weapons?
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the

17
18

form of the question.
of the question.
She didn't say they were brought
She didn't say they were brought

19
20

in by other members of the New York
in by other members of the
York

21

City Police Department.
City Police Department.
MR. SUCKLE:
We've been told
MR. SUCKLE: We've been told

22
23
24
A

that she did.
that she did.
Q.
Q.

25
25

Does that concern that you
Does that concern that

Mr. Schoolcraft and the
expressed about Mr. Schoolcraft and the

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1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

access to weapons, did it apply to those
access to weapons,
it
to those

3

other police officers that you admitted
other police officers that
admitted

4

under the Mental Hygiene Law?
under the Mental Hygiene Law?

5

A.
A.

I think
to look at the
I think you have to look at the

6

case. It depends. Every case is
case.
It depends.
Every case is

7

different. You have to look at it
different.
You have to look at it

8

differently.
differently.

9
10

Q.
Q.

So some police officers have
So some police officers have

access to weapons
some don't?
access to weapons and some don't?

11

A.
A.

I wouldn't know.
That I wouldn't know.

12

Q.
Q.

You indicated one of your
You indicated one of your

13

concerns for Mr. Schoolcraft's safety was
concerns for Mr. Schoolcraft's safety was

14

that he had access to weapons.
that he had access to weapons.

15
16
17

A.
A.

In the notes he
why
In the notes he mentioned why

he cannot have access to his guns.
he cannot have access to his guns.

Q.
Q.

So were other
officers
So were other police officers

18

brought in who did
to weapons
brought in who did have access to weapons

19

that you are aware of?
that you are aware of?

20

A.
A.

I do not
that.
I do not remember that.

21

Q.
Q.

other
officers ever
Did other police officers ever

22

bring in another police officer to the
bring in another police officer to the

23

emergency room who you did
admit
emergency room who you did not admit

24

under the Mental Hygiene Law?
under the Mental Hygiene Law?

25

A.
A.

212-267-6868

That would be hard to remember
would be
to remember.
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\

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2

Q.
Q.

As
sit
today, you
As you sit here today, you

3

don't recall any such situations; am I
don't recall any such situations; am I

4

correct?
correct?

5

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

6

MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.
MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.

7

What situation: admitting or not?
What situation: admitting or not?
MR. SUCKLE: Not admitting.
MR. SUCKLE:
Not admitting.

8
9

Q.
Q.

As you sit here today, do you
As
sit
today, do you

10
11
11

being brought in
other
officers
being brought in by other police officers

12

,)

recall any occurrence of a
officer
recall any occurrence of a police officer

and you did not admit them under mental
and you did not admit
under mental

13

hygiene?
hygiene?
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

14
15

A.
A.

It
be
to remember.
It would be hard to remember.

16

Q.
Q.

So the answer is: As you sit
As you sit
So the answer is:

17

here, no, you don't remember?
here, no, you
remember?
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI:
Objection to

18
19

form.
form.

20

A.
A.

I do not remember.
I do
remember.

21

Q.
Q.

When is the last time
When is the last time you

22
23

Mental Hygiene Law into the psych
Mental Hygiene Law into the

24

)

admitted a police officer
the
admitted a police officer under the

emergency room?
emergency room?

25

A.
A.

212-267-6868

Do not remember.
Do
remember.
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Page 216
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1
2
2

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

Q.
Q.

Was Mr. Schoolcraft the last
Was Mr. Schoolcraft the last

3
3

police officer that you admitted under
police officer that you

4

the Mental Hygiene Law?
the Mental Hygiene Law?

5
6
6

A.
A.

I do
if he was the
I do not know if he was the

last one.
one.

7
7

MR. RADOMISLI: Read that back.
MR. RADOMISLI:
Read that back.

8

[The requested portion of the
[The requested portion of the

9
10
10
11
12
12
13
13
14
14

record was read.]
record was read.]

Q.
Q.

none come to
since
But none come to memory since

Mr Schoolcraft, correct?
Mr. Schoolcraft, correct?
A.
A.

I'm not sure.
not sure.

remember.
remember.
Q.
Q.

I don't
I don't

’
going to
3rd
And going to your November 3rd

15
15
16
16
_hi. .“

note where you fill out the mental status
note where you fill out the mental status
exam form, can we turn to that, please.
exam form, can we turn to that, please.

17
17

[Witness complying.]
[Witness complying.]

18
18

Q.
Q.

Look first at —Look first at --

19
19

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

20
20

Q.
Q.

--

that's stamped
the top
that's stamped at the top

21

"Emergency Admission Section 9.39 Mental
"Emergency Admission Section 9.39 Mental

22
22

Hygiene Law." At the bottom is your
Hygiene Law." At the bottom is your

23
23

signature?
signature?

24
24

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

25
25

Q.
Q.

Is that
we are all talking
Is that what we are all talking

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1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

about, is that what you have in front of
about, is that what you have in front of

3
3

you?
you?

4

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

5

Q.
Q.

Is this all of your
Is this all of

6
6

handwriting?
handwriting?

7
7

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

8

Q.
Q.

And
to the
that
And going to the part that

9
10
10
11

says, "record of admission," what did you
says, "record of admission,"
write there?
write there?
A.
A.

"Patient is a
to
"Patient is a danger to

N

12
12

himself.
Currently psychotic and
himself. Currently psychotic and

'MJ

13
13

paranoid. Would benefit from inpatient
paranoid.
Would benefit from inpatient

14
14

stabilization.
stabilization."

15
15
16
16
17
17

18
18
19
19
20
20

Q.
Q.

I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.

that?
that?
A.
A.

Would benefit from inpatient
from inpatient

stabilization.
stabilization.
Q.
Q.

I didn't hear
will
I didn't hear before will

benefit.
benefit.

21

[The requested
of the
[The requested portion of the

22
22

record was read.]
was read.]

23
23

Q.
Q.

24
24
8‘

I didn't
all of
I didn't get all of

25
25

When you say he would benefit
he
When you

from it, what do you mean?
it,
do you mean?
A.
A.

212-267-6868

Benefit from inpatient
inpatient
REPORTH\IG
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Page 218
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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
3

the inpatient unit, you will have a
the inpatient unit, you will have a

4

psychiatrist, a therapist, and
team
psychiatrist, a therapist, and a team

5

that will work with you.
that will work with you. There are
There are

6

groups in the inpatient unit and there
groups in the inpatient unit and there

7

are other modalities of the kind of
are other modalities of the kind

8

treatment in the inpatient unit that will
treatment in the inpatient unit that will

9
>

stabilization because when you go up to
stabilization because when
up to

be able to maybe
out
he
be able to maybe find out why he was

10

behaving the way he was behaving or why
behaving the way
was
or why

11

he was paranoid, and he will be able to
he was paranoid,
he will
able to

12

talk to a psychologist or the other
talk to a
or the other

13

therapist.
therapist

14

Q.
Q.

The stabilization, was that a
The stabilization, was that a

15

stabilization of his affect, his
stabilization of his affect, his

16

environment that
going to be
environment that was going to be

17

stabilized, what
you mean by that?
stabilized, what did you mean by that?

MR. CALLAN:
Objection to form.
MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.

18
19

A.
A.

Stabilization means
means

20

stabilization of his psychosis and
stabilization of his psychosis

21

stabilization of if there was any
stabilization of if there was any

22

emotional crisis that was he going on
emotional crisis that was he going on

23

[sic] or going through with the conflict
[sic] or going through with the conflict

24

that he was having with the supervisors.
that he was having with the supervisors.

25

Q.

212-267-6868

So some type of
of
So some type of resolution of
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L.

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2

that conflict would be part of the
that conflict would be
of the

3
3

stabilization?
stabilization?

4

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

5

Q.
Q.

that
have occurred
And that would have occurred

6
6

through the modalities that you just
through the modalities that you just

7
7

described earlier?
described earlier?

8

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

9

Q.
Q.

the stabilization
And would the stabilization

10
10

also include limiting his access to
also include
access to

11

weapons?
weapons?

[[

12
12

I’)

13
13

include, yes, because they
have to
include, yes, because they will have to

14
14

find out
is discharged to
find out before he is discharged to

15
15

ascertain he doesn't have any access to
ascertain he doesn't have any access to

16
16

weapons or....
weapons or....

17
17

A.
A.

Q.
Q.

Stabilization, that will
Stabilization, that will

Is that stabilization something
Is that stabilization something

18
18

that every police officer
that every police officer admitted under

19
19

the Mental Hygiene
needs to go
the Mental Hygiene Law needs to go

20
20

through:
making sure they don't have
through: making sure they don't have

21

access to weapons?
access to weapons?

22
22

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

23
23

MR. CALLAN: I join in the
MR. CALLAN: I join in the

24
24
)

objection.
objection.

25
25

A.
A.

212-267-6868

It's not only police officers
It's not only police officers
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i

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2
3

I
>

danger that we
they
access to
danger that we know they have access to

4

I

but everyone that comes in
are a
but everyone that comes in who are a

weapons, then we try as much as possible.
weapons, then we try as much as possible.

5

I
if you
about
I don't know if you know about

6

the New York SAFE Act
to
the New York SAFE Act wherein we have to

7

report everyone that has a weapon,
report everyone that has a weapon, we

8

have to make sure that they are
have to make sure that they are

9

discharged before....
discharged before....

10

Q.
Q.

have to report
Usually you have to report

11

everyone that has
weapon,
do you
everyone that has a weapon, who do you

12

have to report that to?
have to report that to?

13

A.
A.

The
of Health.
The Department of Health.

14

Q.

That's
the law for how
That's been the law for how

15

long?
long?

16

A.
A.

Maybe -- that's new, a new law.
Maybe -- that's new, a new law.

17

Q.
Q.

Was that in effect in 2009?
Was that in effect in 2009?

18

A.
A.

Not 2009.
What I was trying to
Not 2009. What I was trying to

19

say that anyone we
that is a danger
say that anyone we know that is a danger

20

to themselves, we try to
sure they
to themselves, we try to make sure they

21

don't have any access to weapons.
don't have any access to weapons.

22

Q.
Q.

at the date that you
Looking at the date that you

23
24
9

wrote in there -- we have gone through
gone through
wrote in there -this.
don't want to spend too much
this. II don't want to spend too much

25
25

time on it; but
you actually cross
time on it; but did you actually cross

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L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2
2

out the date of the
and then
out the date of the admission and then

3
3

rewrite it?
rewrite it?

4

A.
A.

I
to
11/1/2009.
I tried to put 11 / 1 /2009.

5

Q.
Q.

check a.m. or p.m. on
Did you check a.m. or p.m. on

6
6
7
7
8

this?
this?
A.
A.

No, I
not check it, but
No, I did not check it, but

23:03 is -23:03 is —-

9
9

Q.
Q.

Military time?
time?

10
10

A.
A.

-time, yes.
-- military time, yes.

11

Q.
Q.

the time of
note on
From the time of your note on

12
12

)

the 2nd at 3:10 until this note on the
the 2nd at 3:10 until this note on the

13
13

3rd at 1:20, was Mr. Schoolcraft free to
3rd at 1:20, was Mr. Schoolcraft free to

14
14

leave?
leave?

15
15

A.
A.

16
16
17
17
18
18

No,
was not.
No, he was not.
I made
on the day
I made my decision on the day

that I saw him.
that I saw him.
Q.
Q.

You made your decision on that
You made your decision on that

19
19

date and then turn to the
of
date and then turn to the Notice of

20
20

Status of Rights in
Status of Rights in Emergency Admission

21

which your counsel clearly decided to
to
which your counsel

22
22

throw in front of you before -throw in front of you before --

23
23

MR. CALLAN:
Are we allowed to
MR. CALLAN: Are we allowed to

24
24

look at it now because it's in the
look at it now because it's in the

25
25

record, Counsel?
record, Counsel?

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L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2
2

Q.
Q.

sign that form?
Did you sign that form?

3
3

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

4

Q.
Q.

On the 3rd, correct?
On the 3rd, correct?

5

A.
A.

On the 3rd, yes.
On the 3rd, yes.

6
6

Q.
Q.

sign that at the same
Did you sign that at the same

7
7

time that you
the
time that you signed the Emergency

8

Admission Section 9.39 Mental
Admission Section 9.39 Mental Hygiene

9

Law, that form?
Law, that form?

10
10

.

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

11
12
12
1,)

Yes.
Yes.
What did you do with this form
do with this form
What

once you signed it?
once you
it?

13 "
13

A.
A.

One
goes to the patient.
One copy goes to the patient.

14
14

Q.
Q.

So Mr. Schoolcraft was given
So Mr. Schoolcraft was given

15
15

this on the 3rd of November, 2009?
this on the 3rd of November, 2009?

16
16

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

17
17

Q.
Q.

sign it?
Did he sign it?

18
18

A.
A.

No.
am the one that signs
No. II am the one that signs

Q.
Q.

Mr. Schoolcraft ask you to
Did Mr. Schoolcraft ask you to

19
19

20
20

it.
it.

21

- did you have any contact with Mr.
-- did you have any contact
Mr.
-

22
22

Schoolcraft's father?
Schoolcraft's father?

23
23

J

No, I did not.
No, I did not.

24
24
\

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

Mr. Schoolcraft say, call
Did Mr. Schoolcraft say, call

25
25

my father
my father and tell him about this?
tell
this?

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1
2

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

A.
A.

No,
did not.
No, he did not.

I don't know.
I don't know.

3

I don't have any notes about
allowing
I don't have any notes about him allowing

4

me to speak to his father.
me to speak to his father.

5
6
7
8
9

Q.
Q.

Do
know if you spoke to his
Do you know if you spoke to his

father while he was in the hospital?
father while he was in the hospital?

A.
A.

the notes if I spoke
Regarding the notes if I spoke

to the father?
to the father?
Q.
Q.

Did you write on here that his
write on here that his

10

father should be designated as the person
father should be designated as the person

11

to be noticed of this admission?
to be noticed of this admission?

12

.)

13

A.
A.

No, I didn't write anything
No, I didn't write anything

here.
here.

14

Q.
Q.

Why not?
not?

15

A.
A.

this belongs to him.
Because this belongs to him.

16

Q.
Q.

When you say —say
When

17

A.
A.

This is the for the patient.
This is the for the patient.

18

Q.
Q.

This is for the patient?
This is for the patient?

19

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

20

Q.
Q.

Do
know why there are these
Do you know why there are these

21
22
23
24
25

lines indicating
copies should go?
lines indicating where copies should go?
A.
A.

It says, above patient has been
It says, above patient has been

given a copy of that notice.
given a copy of that notice.

Q.
Q.

that, what does it
Underneath that, what does it

say, it has
signature and underneath
say, it has your signature and underneath

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L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

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2

that, what does it say? Can you read
that, what does it say? Can you read

3
3

that into the record, please?
that into the record, please?

4
5
6
6
7
7

A.
A.

"Copies to persons
"Copies to persons designed by

patient to be
of admission."
patient to be informed of admission."
Q.
Q.

Continue.
Continue.

"If," there is a
"If," there is a

parenthesis there.
parenthesis there.

8

A.
A.

"If none type in none."
"If none type in none."

9
9

Q.
Q.

you type in none?
Did you type in none?

10

A.
A.

No, I
not.
No, I did not.

11
11

Q.
Q.

Did you write in none?
you
in none?

yn

12

A.
A.

No, I
not.
No, I did not.

'_)

13

Q.
Q.

you
in anybody's
Did you write in anybody's

14
14
15
15
16
16

17
17

name?
name?

A.
A.

It's there, "Schoolcraft,
It's there, "Schoolcraft,

Adrian."
Adrian."

Q.
Q.

you
anybody's name to
Did you write anybody's name to

18
18

be
the
to be
be designated by the patient to be

19
19

of his admission,
informed of his admission, did you write

20
20

names there?
any names there?

21

A.
A.

No, I didn't write any names.
No, I didn't write any names.

22
22

Q.
Q.

Do you have a recollection
Do you have a recollection as

23
23

24
24
>

you sit here today independent of the
you sit here today independent of the
record, do you recall actually giving
record, do you recall actually giving

25
25

this to Mr. Schoolcraft?
this to Mr. Schoolcraft?

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Page 225

/_

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

1
2

A.
A.

I do not
an independent
I do not have an independent

3

recollection.
recollection

4

it to him.
it to him.

5

Q.
Q.

6

The nurse could have given
The nurse could have given

So the
may have given it
So the nurse may have given it

to
to him?

7 I

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

8

Q.

Is this something that
Is this something that you

9
10

assigned the nurses to do from time to
assigned the nurses to do from time to

time?
time?
A.
A.

11

Either the nurse or
I do
Either the nurse or II do.
do. I do

12

not have a
if I gave it to
not have a recollection if I gave it to

13

him.
him.

14

I

I will not know.
I will not know.

Q.

is the person who write
Who is the person who write

15

none on it for people to
if
none on it for people to designated if

16

none is the appropriate answer: you, the
you, the
none is the appropriate answer:

17

nurse,
else?
nurse, something else?

18

A.
A.

I would.
I would.

19

Q.

The second page
that
The second page of that

20

emergency admission form -on one
emergency admission form -- hold on one

21

second.
Go back to that notice for the
second. Go back to that notice for the

22

second.
second.
the top of the notice there
At the top of the notice there

23
24

appears to be a date. Can you tell me
appears to be a date. Can you tell me

25

the date
there?
the date that you wrote there?

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Page
Page 226

.

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

A.
A.

11/1/09.
11/1/09.

3
3

Q.
Q.

What does the form say in that
say in that
What does the

4

box, what is the date of -box, what is the date of --

5

A.
A.

"Date of arrival at hospital."
"Date of arrival at hospital."

6
6

Q.
Q.

first
11/3 and
Did you first write 11/3 and

7
7

then cross it out
then cross it out and make it 1?
make it 1?

8
.

A.
A.

No, that's 11/1.
No, that's 11/1.

9

Q.
Q.

cross out that
Did you cross out that middle

10
10

number at all, the date?
number at all, the date?

11

)

No, I
1.
No, I put 1.

12
12
I

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

So there is no cross out or
So there is no cross out or

13
13

block out of that 1 where the 1 is now?
block out of that 1 where the 1 is now?

14
14

A.
A.

I
a 1 in there.
I put a 1 in there.

15
15

Q.
Q.

Again,
the 1 there
Again, you put the 1 there

16
16

because that's the
that you
because that's the date that you

17
17

understand him to arrive at the psych ER,
understand him to arrive at the psych ER,

18
18

right?
right?

19
19

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

20
20

Q.
Q.

As opposed to generally him
As opposed to generally him

21

arriving at the hospital, yes?
arriving at the hospital, yes?

22
22

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

23
23

Q.
Q.

Is
something that
do
Is that something that you do

24
24
D

when you fill out these forms when part
when you fill out these forms when part

25
25

of the form asked for date of arrival,
of the form asked for date of arrival,

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)

Page 227
Page 227

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

did you put in the date they arr ived at
did you put in the date they arrived at

3

the psych ER?
the psych ER?

4

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

5

Q.
Q.

As opposed to the date they
As opposed to the date they

6

actually arrive at the hospital itself?
actually arrive at the hospital itself?

7

A.
A.

,

You're right.
You're right.

8

Q.
Q.

Why do you do that?
do that?

9

A.
A.

We usually put the date of the
the dat e of the
We

10

arrival when they
to the em ergency
arrival when they come to the emergency

11

room.
room.

12

1)

Q.
Q.

I
that.
I understand that.
Why don't you put the date of
the date of

13
14

arrival at the hospital when tha t's what
arrival at the hospital when that's what

15

the form
for?
the form asked for?

16
17
18

A.
A.

We do not use this in the
We do not use this in the

medical ER. We use this in the psych ER.
medical ER. We use this in the psych ER.
Q.
Q.

any hand in
Did you have any hand in

E

19

creating this form as director?
creating this form as director?

20

No.
No.

21

Q.
Q.

This existed
to
This existed prior to you —-

22

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

23

Q.
Q.

-to you
-- prior to you being director?
director?

24
)

A.
A.

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

25
25

Q.
Q.

When did
stop bein 9
When did you stop being

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I ,3

Page 228
Page
1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

director?
director?

2
3

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

4

Q.
Q.

When did you stop?
stop?
When did

5

A.
A.

2013.
October 2013.

6

Q.

Was there a reason that you
Was there a reason that you

stopped being director?
stopped being director?

7
8
9
10

I

A.
A.

There was a change of
There was a change of

administration.
administration.
Q.
Q.

Has there been changes of
Has there been changes of

11
12

.5)

administration
any time in the ten
administration at any time in the ten
years that you were director?
director?
years that you

13

A.
A.

No.
No.

14

Q.
Q.

at the second page of
Looking at the second page of

15

the emergency admission form, is any of
the emergency admission form, is any of

16

this your handwriting?
this your handwriting?

17

A.
A.

That
to Dr. Isakov.
That belong to Dr. Isakov.

18

Q.

Dr.
make any notes in
Did Dr. Vivek make any notes in

19

the chart as to the associate chairman
the chart as to the associate chairman

20

that you spoke to?
that you spoke to?

21

MR. CALLAN: Vivek is the
MR. CALLAN: Vivek is the

22
23

Q.
Q.

24

J

chairman.
chairman.

chairman.
chairman.

25

A.
A.

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I thought you said
I thought you said associate

chairman is Dr.
Associate chairman is Dr. Dhar
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229
Page 229
L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

1
2

chairman and Dr. Vivek.
and chairman and Dr. Vivek.

3

4•
Q.

You spoke to Dr. Dhar?
You spoke to Dr. Dhar?

4

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

5

Q.
Q•

Dr.
fill out
of
Did Dr. Dhar fill out any of

6

these forms with regard to the mental
these forms with regard to the mental

7

hygiene admission?
hygiene admission?

8

A.
A.

No.
No.

9

Q.
Q.

So you just got a verbal on the
So you just got a verbal on the

10

phone by Dr. Dhar; is that
phone by Dr. Dhar; is that what you're

11

saying?
saying?
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

12
13

Q
Q.

Of your opinion?
Of your opinion?
MR. CALLAN:
Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the

14
15

form of the question.
form of the question.

16

Q.
Q.

17

you speak to Dr. Dhar on
Did you speak to Dr. Dhar on

the telephone?
the telephone?

18

A.
A.

He came down.
He came down.

19

Q.
Q.

He came down to the emergency
He came down to the emergency

20

room?
room?

21

A.
A.

[Indicating.]
[Indicating.]

22

Q.
Q.

When Dr. Dhar came down to the
came down to the
When Dr.

23

emergency room,
the case to
emergency room, you presented the case to

24

him, correct?
him, correct?

25

A.
A.

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Yes.
Yes.
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 30 of 100

Page 230
L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

1
2

Q.
Q.

And then what happened?
then what happened?

3

A.
A.

And he agreed to my decision of
he agreed to
decision of

4
5

admitting the patient.
admitting the patient.
Q.
Q.

Did he
the second
Did he become the second

6

physician under
Hygiene Law for
physician under Mental Hygiene Law for

7

admission?
admission?

8

A.
A.

9
10
11

You only the need one in an
You
the need one in an

emergency admission.
emergency admission.
Q.
Q.

But it needs to be confirmed
But it needs to be confirmed

eventually, correct?
eventually, correct?

12

A.
A.

That is after 48 hours.
That is after 48 hours.

13

Q.

So you
down just
So you called him down just

14

because you
a second opinion,
because you wanted a second opinion, not

15

to confirm for the purposes
48-hour
to confirm for the purposes of 48-hour

16

requirement, correct?
requirement, correct?

17

A.
A.

To discuss this case, yes.
To discuss this case, yes.

18

Q.

Was there something you were
Was there something you were

19

unsure of, is that
Dr.
unsure of, is that why you wanted Dr.

20

Dhar's opinion or something else?
Dhar's
or something else?

21

MR. CALLAN:
You went through
MR. CALLAN: You went through

22

this whole thing. Asked and answered,
this whole thing. Asked and answered,

23

objection.
objection.
MR. SUCKLE:
Then her answer
MR. SUCKLE: Then her answer

24
25

should be the same.
be the same.

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231
Page 233.

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

A.
A.

I give
the same answer.
I give you the same answer.

3

Q.
Q.

What is the same answer?
What is the same answer?

4

A.
A.

I made the
and I asked
I made the decision and I asked

5

for Dr. Dhar's
and Dr.
for Dr. Dhar's opinion and Dr. Dhar

6

agreed.
agreed.

7

Q.

Was there anything about Mr.
Was there anything about Mr.

8

Schoolcraft's presentation to you that
Schoolcraft's presentation to you that

9

made you unsure of your opinion?
opinion?
made you unsure of

10

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to

11

form; unsure.
form; unsure.

12

A.
A.

Once more I have to reiterate:
Once more I have to reiterate:

13

I was not only looking at that
when I
I was not only looking at that day when I

14

saw him, I was looking
the whole
saw him, I was looking at the whole

15

picture; the whole picture from the time
picture; the whole picture from the time

16

that he came in to the time that I
that he came in to the time that I made

17

the decision that he needs to be
the decision that he needs to be

18

admitted.
admitted.

19

Q.

Was there anything about that
Was there anything about that

20

whole picture as you say and the opinion
say and the opinion
whole picture as

21

you formed as a
of that
you formed as a result of that whole

22

picture of which
were unsure; that is
picture of which you were unsure; that is

23

the question?
the question?

24
25

A.
A.

That I was not, no. I made a
I made a
That I was not, no.

decision so I had to admit him.
decision so I
to admit him.

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Page 232
1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

And the second form, did
And the second form, did you

3

review this at
time while Mr.
review this at any time while Mr.

4

Schoolcraft was in the hospital or
Schoolcraft was in the hospital or were

5

you done with Mr. Schoolcraft's care and
you done with Mr. Schoolcraft's care and

6

treatment after that?
treatment after that?

7

A.
A.

I did not review that. I do
I do
I did not review that.

8

not go to the inpatient. I was not in
not go to the inpatient. I was not in

9

the inpatient.
the inpatient.

10

Q.
Q.

So this form was completed in
So this form was completed in

11

part by you in the emergency room, and
part by you in the
room, and

12

the rest was
for the inpatient
the rest was completed for the inpatient

13

the second confirming physician?
by the second confirming physician?

14

A.
A.

15
16

Yes.
Yes.
MR.
MR. SUCKLE: Mark this as
SUCKLE: Mark this as

Plaintiff's Exhibit 70.
Plaintiff's
70.
[The
was
[The document was hereby marked

17
18

as Plaintiff's Exhibit 70 for
as Plaintiff's
70 for

19

identification, as of this date.]
identification, as of this date.]

20

Q.
Q.

I show you what's
I show you what's been marked

21

Exhibit 70 for today's date and ask you
Exhibit 70 for today's date and ask you

22

what that is?
what
is?
MR. RADOMISLI: Do you have one
MR. RADOMISLI: Do you have one

23
24

at least?
least?
MR. SUCKLE: You produced it.
MR. SUCKLE:
You produced it.

25

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I

Page 233
Page 233

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

MR. CALLAN: What you are
MR. CALLAN: What you are

3
3

showing is Emergency Admission Status.
showing is Emergency Admission Status.

4

Q.
Q.

5
6
6

Do you know
that is?
Do you know what that is?

MR. CALLAN: Do you have a copy
MR. CALLAN:
Do you have a copy
machine?
machine?

7
7

MR. SMITH:
MR. SMITH:

8

MR. CALLAN:
Before the end of
MR. CALLAN: Before the end of

9

I do.
I do.

day?
day?

10
10

MR. SMITH: For sure.
MR. SMITH:
For sure.

11

MR. CALLAN: It's only three
MR. CALLAN:
It's only three

[

12
12

W)

13
13
14
14

pages.
pages.
MR. SMITH:
Everybody take a
MR. SMITH: Everybody take a
break.
break.

15
15
16
16

It's 4:34. We are taking a
It's 4:34. We are taking a

break.
break.

17
17
18
18

[Discussion
off the
[Discussion held off the
record.]
record.]

19
19

20
20

[Whereupon, at 4:34 p.m., a
[Whereupon, at 4:34 p.m., a

recess was taken.]
recess was taken.]

21
22
22

I'll make copies right now.
I'll make copies right now.

[Whereupon, at 4:49 p.m., the
[Whereupon, at 4:49 p.m., the
testimony continued.]
testimony continued.]

23
23

[The documents were
[The documents were hereby

24
24
>

marked as Plaintiff's
marked as Plaintiff's Exhibits 71
71

25
25

through 75 for identification, as of
through 75 for identification, as of

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,_

)

Page 234
234
1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2
2

this date.]
this date.]

3
3

Q.
Q.

4

Doctor,
have in front of
Doctor, you have in front of

you Exhibit 70 I believe.
you Exhibit 70 I believe.

5

A.
A.

Yeah.
Yeah.

6
6

Q.
Q.

Do you know what that is?
Do
know what that is?

7
7

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

8

Q.
Q.

What is it?
What is it?

9

A.
A.

It's
on
It's a policy on Emergency

10
10
11
12
12
I)

13
13

Admission Status.
Admission Status.
Q.
Q.

have any hand in
Did you have any hand in

creating this document?
creating this document?
A. '
A.

I do not remember. I just
I just
I do not remember.

14
14

probably would see it,
I
probably would see it, but I don't

15
15

remember crafting it or
all
remember crafting it or making all of

16
16

those policies.
those policies.

17
17

Q.
Q.

I realize it's long and I know
I realize it's long and I know

18
18

you're tired, I appreciate that,
you
you're tired, I appreciate that, but you

19
19

have to keep your voice up if you can.
have to keep your voice up if you can.

20
20

When you were the director of
When you were the director of

21

the emergency room,
have a
the emergency room, did you have a

22
22

supervisor
you
to?
supervisor that you answered to?

23
23

Yes.
Yes.

24
24
)

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

Who was that?
Who was that?

25
25

A.
A.

Dr.
and Dr. Vivek.
Dr. Dhar and Dr. Vivek.

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Page 235

55)
1
2
3

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

So the
and the
So the chairman and the

associate chairman?
associate chairman?

4

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

5

Q.
Q.

Did they have a hand in
they
a hand in

6

creating this form?
creating this form?

7

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

8

Q.
Q.

So who else was involved in the
So who else was involved in the

9
10
11

ii)

creation of this form? You said you sat
creation of this form? You said you sat
in maybe?
in maybe?
A.
A.

Yes.
It's all the
Yes. It's all the

12

administrative leaders of the department:
administrative leaders of the department:

13

the unit chief, Dr. Dhar, Dr. Vivek, and
the unit chief, Dr. Dhar, Dr. Vivek, and

14

the director of the nursing department.
the director of the nursing department.

15

Q.
Q.

Have you ever
time to time
Have you ever from time to time

16

had to reference this document for
had to reference this document for your

17

own information?
own information?

18

MR. RADOMISLI:
Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to

19

form.
form.

20

A.
A.

You mean go back
read?
You mean go back and read?

21

Q.
Q.

Yes, that's another way of
Yes, that's another way of

22

asking it.
asking it.

23

A.
A.

I see it every now and then if
I see it every now and then if

24

we have
we have administrative meetings, we have
meetings, we

25

to see it once again so I more or less
to see it once again so I more or less

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Page 236
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/

1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

[

2

will listen to what is being changed or
changed or
will listen to what is

3

being added.
added.
MR. CALLAN: Keep your voice up,
MR. CALLAN: Keep your voice up,

4
5

Doctor, louder.
Doctor, louder.

6

Q.
Q.

Doctor, I know that the last
Doctor, I know that the last

7

review was April of 2010. Was anything
review was April of 2010. Was anything

8

changed then?
changed then?
A.
A.

9
10

'

I
remember.
I would not remember.

Q.
Q.

appears that the
was
It appears that the policy was

11

reviewed every April from 1999 through
reviewed every April from 1999 through

12

2010.
What does the review entail, do
2010. What does the review entail, do

13

you know?
you know?

14

A.
A.

Going
to all of this if
Going back to all of this if

15

there is anything
that the
there is anything added that the

16

Department of Health
like to add.
Department of Health would like to add.

17

Q.
Q.

What is on here, what is the
What is on here, what is the

18

information on here,
you
information on here, how would you

19

that?
characterize that?

20

A.
A.

Well, it's giving us all the
us all the
Well, it's

21

reasons about when we
the patient.
reasons about when we admit the patient.

22

It's the 9.39.
It's the 9.39.

23
24
25

Q.
Q.

Do you
the vernacular,
Do you know the vernacular,

CPEP, do you
a CPEP is?
CPEP, do you know what a CPEP is?
A.
A.

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/a)
I

Page 237
Page 237

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1

2
3

Q.
Q.

Community psyche emergency
emergency

protocol?
protocol?

4

A.
A.

Where are you?
are you?

5

Q.
Q.

It's not on here.
It's
on here.

6
7

Do you know that vernacular, do
Do
that vernacular, do
you know what that stands for, CPEP?
you know what that stands for, CPEP?
MR. RADOMISLI: Did you say what
MR. RADOMISLI:
Did you say

8

9

you thought it stood for on the
you thought it stood for on the

10
11

l)

record? II don't think you got it
record?
don't think you got it
right.
right.

12

Q.
Q.

13

_

Do you know what CPEP stands
Do
what CPEP stands

for?
for?

14

A.
A.

to CPEP?
Referring to CPEP?

15

Q.
Q.

What is that?
What is that?

16

A.
A.

That is the holding a patient
That is the
a patient

17

in that department instead of sending the
in that department instead of sending the

18

I

patient to admission.
patient to admission.

19

Q.
Q.

Holding them in that -Holding them in that --

20

A.
A.

It's a different department of
It's a
of

21
22

you could admit the patient to the
you could
the
to the

23

inpatient.
inpatient.

24

}

wherein
can
ER wherein you can hold a patient before

Q.
Q.

25

That's the psych ER, the
That's the
ER, the

medical ER, or both?
medical ER, or both?

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Page 238
238
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

A.
A.

The
ER.
The psych ER.

3

Q.
Q.

And that wasn't done with Mr.
that
done with Mr.

4

Schoolcraft, correct?
Schoolcraft, correct?

A.
A.

5
6

did not
a CPEP
Because we did not have a CPEP

then.
then.

I

7

Q.
Q.

What does that stand for?
What does that stand for?

8

A.
A.

emergency
Community psychiatry emergency

9

-- I do not have the whole name, sorry.
-- I do not have the whole name, sorry.

Q.
Q.

But Jamaica Hospital has one
But Jamaica Hospital has one

12

A.
A.

has one, yes.
It has one, yes.

13

Q.
Q.

When looking at Exhibit 70, is
70, is
When looking at

10
11

now?
now?

r

14

it your understanding this sets out what
it your understanding this sets out what

15

is required
9.39 of the mental
is required under 9.39 of the mental

16

health law to
someone
the
health law to admit someone under the

17

mental health law?
law?
mental

18

MR. CALLAN:
Objection to form.
MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.

19

MR. LEE:
Objection to the form.
MR. LEE: Objection to the form.

A.
A.

21
22

I want you to rephrase that
I want you to rephrase that

Q.
Q

20

Sure.
Sure.

one.
one.

What is the standard set out in
What is the standard set out in

23
24

this document, if you know?
this document, if you know?
MR. CALLAN:
Do you want her to
MR. CALLAN: Do you want her to

25

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 39 of 100

Page 239
Page 239

1
1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
read the document, a summary?
read the document, a summary?
MR. SUCKLE:
want to know her
MR. SUCKLE: II want to know her

3
4

understanding of it.
understanding of it.

5

MR. CALLAN:
MR. CALLAN:

I object.
I object.

It's
It's a

6

three-page piece of paper. It speaks
It speaks
three-page piece of paper.

7

for itself.
for itself.
to the form of the
Objection to the form of the

8
9

question.
question.

10

Q.

Do you know what this is?
Do you
what this is?

11

A.
A.

Yes, it's
York Mental
Yes, it's a New York Mental

12

Hygiene Law, that's careful attention
Hygiene Law, that's careful attention

13

with preservation of their legal rights
with preservation of their legal rights

14

as well as their safety.
as well as their safety.

15

I

16

Q.
Q.

Is this the
of Jamaica
Is this the policy of Jamaica

Hospital?
Hospital?

17

A.
A.

To do a 9.39?
To do a 9.39?

18

Q.

Is this document a
of
Is this document a policy of

19
20
21
22
23

Jamaica Hospital?
Jamaica Hospital?
A.
A.

It's showing in here Jamaica
It's showing in here Jamaica

Hospital
Psychiatry Manual.
Hospital Department of Psychiatry Manual

Q.
Q.

Is
a
of Jamaica
Is it a policy of Jamaica

Hospital, a written policy?
Hospital, a
policy?

24

A.
A.

policy, yes.
A written policy, yes.

25

Q.
Q.

Do you endeavor to follow the
Do you
to follow the

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 40 of 100

Page 240
240
L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
policies of Jamaica Hospital, the written
policies of Jamaica Hospital, the written

ones?
ones?
A.
A.

The written, yes.
The written, yes.

Q.
Q.

In dealing with Mr.
In
with Mr.

Schoolcraft, did you
to follow
Schoolcraft, did you endeavor to follow
the policy set forth here as
70?
the policy set forth here as Exhibit 70?
MR. CALLAN:
Well, this says it
MR. CALLAN: Well, this says it

was
was revised 4/10.
4/10.
MR. SUCKLE:
asked her if she
MR. SUCKLE: II asked her if she

knew what knew
-MR. CALLAN: Well, we don't
MR. CALLAN: Well, we don't

know.
know.
MR. SUCKLE:
It doesn't say
MR. SUCKLE: It doesn't say
revised.
It says reviewed.
Please
revised. It says reviewed. Please

don't speak.
asked her about
don't speak. II asked her about —MR. CALLAN:
Are you making a
MR. CALLAN: Are you making a
this was the policy
representation this was the policy
that was in effect at the time that
that was in effect at the time that
Mr. Schoolcraft
seen?
Mr. Schoolcraft were seen?

MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE:

I'm
if she
I'm asking if she

this policy, endeavored to
followed this policy, endeavored to
this policy, whether it was in
follow this policy, whether it was in
not she can tell me.
effect or not she can tell me.
MR. LEE: Objection to form.
MR. LEE: Objection to form.

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-)

I

Page
Page 241

1
1
2
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L. ALDANA-BERNIER
A.
A.

It's saying in here, "Patient
It's saying in here, "Patient

3
3

alleged to have a mental illness for
alleged to have a mental illness for

4

which immediate observation, care, and
which immediate observation, care, and

5

treatment in a hospital is
treatment in a hospital is appropriate

6
6

which is
to result in serious
and which is likely to result in serious

7
7

harm to himself or others
admitted
harm to himself or others may be admitted

8

under this provision for a
of 15
under this provision for a period of 15

9

days."
days."

10
10

Q.
Q.

The question is: Did you
The question is: Did you

11

endeavor to
this
in your
endeavor to follow this policy in your

[_

12
12

care and
Mr. Schoolcraft?
care and treatment of Mr. Schoolcraft?

J)

13
13

A.
A.

At that point in 2009, I
At that
in 2009, I

14
14

thought -- I believe that he
a
thought -- I believe that he may be a

15
15

danger to others or to himself because of
danger to others or to himself because of

16
16

that point in time if you go back to the
that point in time if you go back to the

17
17

story where he was
to the
story where he was brought to the

18
18

hospital because
was acting
hospital because he was acting bizarre

19
19

and agitated and he was paranoid. I
I
and agitated and he was paranoid.

20
20

think he was a
to others or to
think he was a danger to others or to

21

himself.
himself.

22
22
23
23

Q.
Q.

Is your answer, yes,
tried
Is your answer, yes, you tried

to -to --

24
24
)

A.
A.

That's
I'm saying, yes.
That's what I'm saying, yes.

25
25

Q.
Q.

Under this policy, under number
Under this policy, under number

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 42 of 100

Page 242
1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2

1 is "a substantial risk of
harm
1 is "a substantial risk of physical harm

3

to himself as manifested by threats of or
to himself as
threats of or

4

attempts at suicide."
attempts at suicide."
he
threats or
Did he manifest threats or

5
6

attempts at suicide?
attempts at suicide?

7

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.

8

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

9
10

Q.
Q.

Mr. Schoolcraft
Did Mr. Schoolcraft manifest

threats or attempts at suicide?
threats or attempts at suicide?

11

A.
A.

You have to finish.
You have to finish.

12

Q.
Q.

We are going to break it down
We are going to break it down.

13

We are going to go one by one?
We are going to go one by one?

14

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

15

MR. SUCKLE: That's the
MR. SUCKLE:
That's the

16

question.
question.
MR. CALLAN:
Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the

17
18

form of the question.
form of the question.
MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE: Noted. She can
Noted.
She can

19
20

answer.
answer.
MR. CALLAN:
The doctor said you
MR. CALLAN: The doctor said you

21
22

left something out. You are reading
left something out. You are reading

23

incomplete sentences from a three-page
incomplete sentences from a three-page

24

document.
document.

MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE:

25

212-267-6868

I'm asking

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Page 243
ALDANA-BERNIER
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

1
2

questions.
In my horrific stumbling
questions. In my horrific stumbling

3

way, I'm
a question.
way, I'm asking a question.

4

Q.
Q.

Doctor, did you admit Mr.
Doctor, did you admit Mr.

5

Schoolcraft because he was a substantial
Schoolcraft because he was a substantial

6

risk of physical
to himself as
risk of physical harm to himself as

7

manifested by a threat or attempt at
manifested by a threat or attempt at

8

suicide?
suicide?

9

Sir -Sir --

10

Q.

or no.
Just yes or no.

11

A.

Sir,
have to complete the
Sir, you have to complete the

12

I

A.

statement.
statement.

13

Q.
Q.

14

You have to answer questions.
You have to answer questions.
MR. SHAFFER:
MR. SHAFFER:

15
16
17
18

I don't have to do anything.
I don't have to do anything.

A.
A.

Objection.
Objection.

"Or other conduct demonstrating
"Or other conduct demonstrating

he is a
to himself."
he is a danger to himself."
Q.
Q.

We're going to get there. I
I
We're going to get there.

19

know that part. I'm asking you a
know that part. I'm asking you a

20

question.
question.

21

A.
A.

That's
I
-That's what I based --

22

Q.
Q.

are going to get to what you
We are going to get to what you

23
24

)

based your opinion on. I'm asking you:
based your opinion on. I'm asking you:
you
it on that
was a
Did you base it on that he was a

25

substantial risk of physical harm to
substantial risk of
harm to

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 44 of 100

Page 244

/A)

1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2

himself as
by a threat of or
himself as manifested by a threat of or

3

attempt at suicide?
attempt at suicide?

4
5

MR. CALLAN:
Objection, asked
MR. CALLAN: Objection, asked
and answered.
and answered.

6

I

7

MR. SUCKLE:
Not answered yet.
MR. SUCKLE: Not answered yet.

Q
Q.

MR. CALLAN:
Objection, asked
MR. CALLAN: Objection, asked

8
9

Yes or no?
Yes or no?

and answered.
and answered.

10

Q.
Q.

Can
answer, please?
Can you answer, please?

11

A.
A.

risk, yes.
A potential risk, yes.

12

Q.
Q.

So you say he
a
So you say he manifest by a

13

threat or attempt at suicide; it that
threat or attempt at suicide; it that

14

E

what you're saying?
what you're saying?

15

A.
A.

risk.
A potential risk.

16

Q.
Q.

he
a threat of
Did he manifest by a threat of

17
18

suicide?
suicide?
A.
A.

It's the
that he came
It's the behavior that he came

19

in with to the emergency room. I saw he
I saw he
in with to the emergency room.

20

was a potential risk that he might hurt
was a potential risk that he might hurt

21

himself or hurt others. That's a
himself or hurt others. That's a

22

potential risk.
potential risk.

23

24

,)

25

Q.
Q.

So
risk was the
So potential risk was the

reason that you
him, correct?
reason that you held him, correct?
A.
A.

212-267-6868

That's the reason that I
That's the reason that I was
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,7

Page 245
L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

1
2
3
4 [

thinking that he needs admission.
thinking that he needs admission.

Q.

the potential of that risk
And the potential of that risk

you've
to us already today?
you've described to us already today?

5

A.
A.

I did, yes.
I did, yes.

6

Q.
Q.

this potential
a risk,
And this potential of a risk,

7

did the doctor who saw him within the
the doctor who saw him within the

8

48-hour period to
his admission
48-hour period to confirm his admission

9

also tell you that he was
also tell you that he was concerned about

10 ‘

the potential risk?
the potential risk?

11
12 q

)

MR. RADOMISLI:
Objection.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

MR. LEE: Objection to the form.
MR. LEE: Objection to the form

13

MR. CALLAN: II join in the
MR. CALLAN:
join in the

14

objection.
objection.

15

Q.
Q.

tell you he was
Did he tell you he was

16

concerned about the potential risk that
concerned about the potential risk that

17

you've
described?
you've just described?
5

18
19

MR. LEE: There's been no
MR. LEE: There's been no

she
talked to him.
testimony she ever talked to him.
MR. SUCKLE:
She can say that if
MR. SUCKLE: She can say that if

20
21

that's the answer.
that's the answer.

22

A.
A.

If
read the notes, I
If you read the notes, I wasn't

23
24
)

there for
to tell
that.
there for him to tell me that.

his notes, I
see
was a
his notes, I can see he was a potential

25

risk.
risk.

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As I read

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3

Page 246
Page
1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

This potential risk that you're
This potential risk that you're

3

talking about, did he have this potential
talking about, did he have this potential

4

risk when you last saw him?
risk when you last saw him?

5

A.
A.

I'm not basing it only to one
not
it only to one

6

day. I'm basing it from the beginning
day.
I'm basing it from the beginning

7

that he came into the hospital.
that he came into the hospital.

8
9

Q.
Q.

this potential risk, is
And this potential risk, is

there any other risk besides that
there any other risk besides that

10
11

)

potential risk that you just described as
potential risk that you just described as
the reason that you held him?
the reason that you
him?

12

A.
A.

What risk are you thinking of?
risk are
thinking of?

13

Q.
Q.

I'm not thinking of any.
not thinking of any.
MR. CALLAN: Do you want her to
MR. CALLAN:
Do you want her to

14
15

repeat herself again?
repeat
again?
MR. SUCKLE: No, I want to make
MR. SUCKLE:
No, I want to make

16
17

sure there are no other ones.
sure there are no other ones.

18

Q.
Q.

Is that potential risk that you
Is that potential risk that you

19

just described the only reason that you
just described the
that you

20

him?
held him?

21

A.
A.

The same reason I think when I
The same reason I think when I

22
23

danger to others, and I
the decision
danger to others, and I make the decision

24

)

see a patient, it is a potential risk and
see a patient, it is a potential risk and

I have to admit the patient.
I have to
the patient.

25

Q.
Q.

212-267-6868

And when you say "potential
say "potential
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Page 247
247
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

risk," can you quantify that for me at
risk," can you quantify that for me at

3

all what you mean by potential?
all what you mean
potential?

4

A.
A.

The patient comes in barricaded
The
comes in

5

himself, acting bizarre.
himself, acting bizarre. He was brought
He was brought

6

in from his house. It was a police
in from his house. It was a police

7

officer who may have access to weapons,
officer who may have access to weapons,

8

easy for him to have access to weapons.
easy for him to have access to weapons.

9

He is paranoid. I would think that maybe
He is paranoid. I would think that maybe

10

it would be safe if the patient will be
it would be safe if the
will

11

admitted.
admitted.

12

Q.

13

So your thought he might be
So your thought he

safe if he was admitted?
safe if he was admitted?

14

A.
A.

If he was admitted.
If he was admitted.

15

Q.
Q.

That's
you
talking
That's what you were talking

16

about when you say potential risk,
about when you say potential risk,

17

correct?
correct?
A.
A.

19
20

All of the above that I told
All of the above that I told

Q.
Q.

18

Can you quantify what you mean
Can you quantify

you.
you.

21

by potential risk as far as the
potential risk as far as the

22

likelihood of risk? This word
likelihood of risk? This word

23

"potential" that you have been using, can
"potential" that you have
using, can

24

you quantify that for me?
you quantify that for me?

25

A.
A.

212-267-6868

When
say "quantify,"
When you say "quantify," what
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Page 248
Page
1
2
3

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

do you mean?
do you mean?
Q.
Q.

4

Sure.
Sure.
Well, you used the word
the word
Well, you

5

"potential." I would like to know what
"potential."
I would like to know what

6

you mean by potential.
you mean by potential.

7

A.
A.

If you think of the navy yard
If you think of the navy

8

disaster, was he an officer
army man?
disaster, was he an officer or army man?

9

He was so quite, no one ever found out
He was so quite, no one ever found out

10

what was going on with him. So what
what was going on with him.
So what

11

happened then?
then?
Or if you look at all of those
Or if you look at all of those

12
13

-- the Range Rover. Who are all of these
-— the Range Rover. Who are all of these

14

people that caused that? They are all
people that caused that? They are all

15

police officers.
police officers.

16

So if I think then I have to
So if I think then I
to

17

make sure that when I see a patient in
when I see a
in
make sure

18

the ER, I have to think in the future
the ER, I have to think in the future

19

that there will be no disaster, there
that there will be no disaster, there

20

will be no destruction, or no one will
will be no destruction, or no one will

21

get
they were discharged from
get harmed when they were discharged from

22

the ER.
the ER.

23
24
25

Q.
Q.

I was asking about what you
I was

meant by potential.
meant by potential.

A.
A.

212-267-6868

That's the potential.
That's the potential.
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 49 of 100

Page 249
Page 249

1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

So if there is any potential at
So if there is any potential at

3

all, you want to
sure that the
all, you want to make sure that the

4

patient is safe, correct?
patient is safe, correct?

5

A.
A.

Correct.
Correct.

6

Q.
Q.

if there is any potential
And if there is any potential

7

at all, you want to make sure the
at all, you want to make sure the

8

community is safe, correct?
community is safe, correct?

9

A.
A.

That's correct.
That's correct.

10

Q.
Q.

And if there is any potential
if there is
potential

11

at all, you were
to
Mr.
at all, you were going to admit Mr.

12

Schoolcraft, correct?
Schoolcraft, correct?

MR. LEE: Objection to form.
MR. LEE: Objection to form.

13
14
15
16

A.
A.

With all of those reasons, yes,
those reasons, yes,
With all

I would have to admit him.
I would have to
him.
Q.
Q.

When you admitted him to the
to the
When

17

emergency room, there were certain rules
emergency room, there were certain rules

18

and regulations - _
and
--

19
20

MR. SUCKLE: Withdrawn.
MR. SUCKLE: Withdrawn.
Q.
Q.

When he was admitted to the
When he was admitted to the

21

psych floor, there were certain rules and
psych floor, there were certain rules and

22

regulations in the psych ward, correct,
regulations in the psych ward, correct,

23

about clothes they wear,
hours
about clothes they wear, what hours

24

visitors can come, correct?
visitors can come, correct?

25

A.
A.

212-267-6868

Yes.
Yes.
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 50 of 100

Page 250
Page 250

1
2

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

Q.
Q.

It's not like they are free to
It's
like they are free to

3

have anybody come and visit any time they
have anybody come
time they

4

want, correct; is that true?
want, correct; is that true?

5

A.
A.

That's correct.
That's correct.

6

Q.
Q.

I will show you what's been
I will show you what's

7

marked as
marked as Exhibit 71.
71.
Now, do you know what that is?
Now, do
know what that is?

8
9

A.
A.

[No response.]
[No response.]

10

Q.
Q.

Do you know what that is?
Do you
what that is?

11

A.
A.

It's the policy of visiting
It's the
of visiting

12

hours.
hours.

13

Q.
Q.

Were those the policies in
Were those the policies in

14

effect when Mr.
was on the
effect when Mr. Schoolcraft was on the

15

psychiatric floor at Jamaica Hospital in
psychiatric floor at Jamaica Hospital in

16

2009?
2009?

17
18
19

A.
A.

Okay, this
is for the
Okay, this policy is for the

inpatient unit.
inpatient unit.
Q.
Q.

During the time that Mr.
During the time that Mr.

20

Schoolcraft was at Jamaica Hospital, was
Schoolcraft was at Jamaica Hospital, was

21

he in the
unit?
he in the inpatient unit?

22
23
24

A.
A.

I did
work in the inpatient
I did not work in the inpatient

unit.
unit.
Q.
Q.

I understand.
I understand.

Was he in the inpatient unit?
Was he in the inpatient unit?

25

212-267-6868

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 51 of 100

Page 251
1
2
3
4

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
A.
A.

Yeah, he was in the inpatient
Yeah, he was in the inpatient

unit.
unit.
Q.
Q.

Were these
Were these documents created by
created by

5

Jamaica Hospital, the visiting hours, do
Jamaica Hospital, the
hours, do

6

you know about that?
you know
that?

B

7

i

It's in
[indicating].
It's in here [indicating].

8

I

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

Were
Were you sitting in on the
sitting in on the

9

committee that
that
too?
committee that created that document too?

10

A.
A.

I don't remember that.
I
remember that.

11

Q.
Q.

Do you agree that Mr.
Do you agree that Mr.

I
I

12
13

p.m. and 3 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. to 8 p.m
p.m. and 3 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. to 8 p.m.

14

1

Schoolcraft could have visitors from 2
Schoolcraft could have visitors from 2

only?
only?

15

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

16

I
‘E
I

MR. CALLAN:
Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

17

\

18

I

Q.
Q.

While he was on the floor, do
While he was on the floor, do

you agree with that?
you agree
that?

19

she
she is not involved with the
she said she is not involved with the

21

I

MR. CALLAN:
You know, Counsel,
MR. CALLAN: You know, Counsel,

20

I

inpatient.
inpatient.

22
23

)

painting the hospital. Maybe she
Maybe she
painting the hospital.

24

2
a

Maybe you can ask her
Maybe you can ask her about

might know something about that.
something about that.
might

25

Maybe she looked at it from her car
Maybe she looked at it from her car

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 52 of 100

Page 252
Page 252
1
l
2
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
when she drove by.
when she drove by.

3
3
4

MR. SUCKLE:
I'll ask her about
MR. SUCKLE: I'll ask her about

it next.
it next.

5

MR. SHAFFER: II will be leaving
MR. SHAFFER:
will be leaving

6
6

if that is a question that's asked.
if that is a question that's asked.

7
7

A.
A.

Can you ask the question again?
Can you
the
again?

8

Q.
Q.

the visiting hours on
What were the visiting hours on

9

the floor?
the floor?

10
10

A.
A.

Two to three, 6:30 to eight.
Two to three, 6:30 to eight.

11

Q.

So Mr. Schoolcraft if his
So Mr. Schoolcraft if his

12
12

father wanted to visit him at nine
father wanted to
at

13
13

o'clock in the morning,
be able
o'clock in the morning, would not be able

14
14

to do that, correct?
to do that, correct?

15
15

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN:
Objection.

16
16

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

17
17

MR. LEE: Objection to form.
MR. LEE: Objection to form.

18
18

19
19

A.
A.

I
not
the
I would not know what the

policy at the inpatient unit
be.
policy at the inpatient unit would be.

20
20

MR. SUCKLE:
Counsel wants me to
MR. SUCKLE: Counsel wants me to

21

ask about painting,
I'm not going
ask about painting, but I'm not going

22
22

to do that.
to do that.

23
23
24
24

MR. CALLAN: That's a relief.
MR. CALLAN: That's a relief.

Q
Q.

25
25

Let's look at
72.
Let's look at Exhibit 72.

MR. SMITH: Which is MR. SMITH: Which is —-

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 53 of 100

Page 253
Page 253

1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

Which is the restriction of
Which is the restriction of

I

3

visiting and communication and
visiting and communication and

4

I

correspondence, do you know about that,
correspondence, do you know about that,

5

what that document is?
what that
is?

6
7

A.
A.

This is also for the inpatient
This is also for the inpatient

unit.
unit.

8

Q.
Q.

9

So you don't know anything
So you
know anything

about it?
it?

10

A.
A.

I can read it to you.
I can read it to you.

11

Q.
Q.

Do you know anything about it?
Do you
anything about it?

12

A.
A.

No, it's for the inpatient
No, it's
the inpatient

13
14
15
16

unit.
unit.
Q.
Q.

So you
know about the
So you only know about the

room?
emergency room?
A.
A.

room.
Emergency room.
MR. CALLAN:
Aren't you doing
MR. CALLAN: Aren't you doing

17
18

Isakov tomorrow? Isn't he in the
Isakov tomorrow? Isn't he in the

19

room?
inpatient room?

20

Q.
Q.

showing you what's
I'm showing you what's been

21

marked Exhibit 74 today's date.
Do you
marked Exhibit 74 today's date. Do you

22

know what this is?
know what this is?

23
24
25

A.
A.

It's the rules
regulations
It's the rules and regulations

the patients have to comply with.
the patients have to comply with.
Q.
Q.

212-267-6868

At Jamaica Hospital in the
At Jamaica Hospital in the
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 54 of 100

Page 254
254
1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
psych unit?
psych unit?

3

A.
A.

Psych Unit 3, yes.
3, yes.

4

Q.

What is Psych Unit 3?
3?
What is Psych

5

A.
A.

That's -- it's a unit which
That's -- it's a unit which

6

patients are admitted; one is 2 and one
patients are admitted; one is 2 and one

7

is 3.
is 3.
Q.
Q.

8
9

What is the distinction, if
What is the distinction, if

any, in treatment?
any, in treatment?

10

A.
A.

None, it's the same.
None, it's the same.

11

Q.
Q.

Was Mr. Schoolcraft admitted to
Was Mr. Schoolcraft admitted to

12

Psych 3?
3?

13

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

14

Q.
Q.

So these rules
apply to
So these rules would apply to

A.
A.

Psych 3.
3.

15
16

him?
him?

17
18

MR. RADOMISLI: Mr. Suckle, is
MR. RADOMISLI: Mr. Suckle, is

this something we
to you?
this something we produced to you?

MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE:

19
20

I believe so.
I believe so.

I

don't know.
don't know.

21

MR. RADOMISLI: Do you know?
MR. RADOMISLI: Do you know?

22

MR. SUCKLE:
Off the top of my
MR. SUCKLE: Off the top of my

23

head, I don't remember but -- I
head, I don't remember but -- I don't

24

remember.
remember.
MR. RADOMISLI: Would there be a
MR. RADOMISLI: Would there be a

25

212-267-6868

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 55 of 100

/~)

Page 255
Page 255

I\

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
2

way for you to
way for you to get it in a fashion
it in a fashion

3
3

other than if we produced it?
other than if we
it?
MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE:

4

I didn't do
I
do

5

discovery in this case so you've got
discovery in this case so you've got

6
6

the wrong guy.
the
guy.
MR. RADOMISLI: Do you know
MR. RADOMISLI: Do you know

7
7
8

whether this was
whether this was produced to you by
to
by

9
9

us?

10
10

MR. SUCKLE: Off the top of my
MR. SUCKLE:
Off the top of my

11
12
12

I

13
13

your document response to discovery
your document response to discovery
inspection and this came out. I can
I can
inspection and this came out.

15
15

Q

I know it came out of, I hit print on
I know it came
of, I
on

14
14

[[

head, I would assume it was.
head, I would assume it was. In fact,
In fact,

tell you that.
tell you that.
MR. RADOMISLI: Fair enough.
MR. RADOMISLI: Fair enough.

16
16
17
17

Thank you.
Thank you.

18
18

MR. CALLAN: Or it could be
MR. CALLAN:
Or it could be

19
19

another hospital in Queens, who knows
another hospital in Queens,
knows.

20
20

Q.

21

This document was created by
This
was created

Jamaica Hospital, correct?
Jamaica Hospital, correct?

22
22

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

23
23

Correct.
Correct.

24
24
)

A.
A.
Q.

She already said yes.
She
said yes.

25
25

MR. CALLAN: Do you know if that
MR. CALLAN:
Do you know if that

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 56 of 100

/ "I

3

Page 256
Page
1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2

was created by Jamaica Hospital, do
was created by Jamaica Hospital, do

3

you have personal knowledge of that?
you have personal knowledge of that?

4
!~

5

35

THE WITNESS:
It says Unit 3
THE WITNESS: It says Unit 3
SO....
so.. .

-mm:

6
7

MR. CALLAN: I'm not asking you
MR. CALLAN:
I'm not asking you
what it says.
what it says.

8
9

1|nzm»-=vm~»:-m~n=l- -

10

.1If

11?,%

Do you have personal knowledge
Do you have personal knowledge

as to whether that document was
as to whether that document was

created by Jamaica Hospital?
created by
Hospital?

11

If you do, you can say yes, if
If you do, you can say yes, if

12

no, say no. Don't assume is all I'm
no, say no. Don't assume is all I'm

13

saying to you.
to you.

14

Do you know?
Do you know?

15

MR. SUCKLE:
Stop badgering your
MR. SUCKLE: Stop badgering your

16

I

E

own witness.
own witness.
THE WITNESS: I was just looking
THE WITNESS: I was just looking

17
18
19

Do you recognize this document?
Do you recognize this document?

A.
A.

Which one?
Which one?

21

§I

Q.
Q.

20

I
I

at the top
it.
at the top of it.

Q.
Q.

This one, have you seen it
This one, have you seen it

22
23
24
)

before?
before?
A.
A.

I have to —— I
think so
I have to -- I don't think so

because it's inpatient unit.
because it's inpatient unit.

MR. SMITH: You don't think so?
MR. SMITH:
You don't think so?

25
25

I

I

I
212-267-6868

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 57 of 100

Page 257
Page 257

1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2

THE WITNESS:
It's in the
THE WITNESS: It's in the

3

inpatient unit. I work in the ER.
inpatient unit. I work in the ER.

4

Q.
Q.

5

You work in the ER; am I
You work in the ER; am I

correct?
correct?

6

Yes.
Yes.

7
»
F

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

You
been
this for
You have been doing this for

8

how many years,
long
been
how many years, how long have you been

9

working in the ER?
working in the ER?

10

A.
A.

years.
Eighteen years.

11

Q.
Q-

For 18
come into
For 18 years people come into

12

the psychiatric ER, right, you
the psychiatric ER, right, you evaluate

13

them, correct?
them, correct?

14

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

15

Q.
Q.

you sign them in under
And you sign them in under

16

Mental Hygiene Law, they go upstairs,
Mental Hygiene Law, they go upstairs,

17

correct?
correct?

18

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

19

Q.
Q.

you never see them again;
And you never see them again;

20

is that true?
is that true?
MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

21
22

Q.
Q.

23

hospital?
hospital?
MR. CALLAN:
Does that have to
MR. CALLAN: Does that have to

24
25

While they were at the
they were at the

do with the
of paper?
do with the piece of paper?

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 58 of 100

Page 258
258

/, _.

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE:

2

I'm asking
I'm

3

questions about the paper because you
questions about the paper because

4

didn't like the paper.
didn't like the paper.

5

Q.
Q.

Is that true? When they go
Is that true? When they go

6

upstairs on the psychiatric ward, you
upstairs on the psychiatric ward, you

7

don't see them again, correct?
don't see them again, correct?

8
9

A.
A.

That depends if you follow the
That depends if
follow the

patient on the outside, then you see them
patient on the outside, then
see them

10

again.
again.

11

Q.
Q.

When you say "follow the
When you say "follow the

12

patient on the outside," do you follow
patient on the outside," do
follow

13

patients on the outside?
patients on the outside?

14

A.
A.

If they refer them to me, yes.
If they refer them to me, yes.

15

Q.
Q.

Who is they?
Who is they?

16

A.
A.

The inpatient
3.
The inpatient Unit 3.

17

Q.
Q.

So inpatient can refer a
So inpatient can
a

18

patient to you for private care?
patient to you for
care?

19

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

20

Q.
Q.

Do you do your own private
Do you do
own private

21

practice?
practice?

22

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

23

Q.
Q.

Do you have an office outside
Do
an office outside

24

J

25

of Jamaica Hospital?
of
Hospital?
A.
A.

212-267-6868

I do
I do.
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 59 of 100

[/a3

Page 259
Page 259

1
2
2
3
3

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

In this
practice, you
In this private practice, you

practice psychiatry I assume, correct?
practice psychiatry I assume, correct?

4

A.
A.

What
What else would I practice?
I practice?

5

Q.
Q.

I don't know.
I
know.

6
6

sure.
sure.

7
8

I'm just
I'm just making

How many days
do you
How many days a week do you

work in that private practice?
work in that private practice?

9

A.
A.

One.
One.

10
10

Q.
Q.

How many days a week
How many days a week did you

11

work at Jamaica Hospital in 2009?
work at Jamaica Hospital in 2009?

x

12
12

A.
A.

Five.
Five.

A)

13
13

Q.
Q.

And you also had private
also

14
14

practice back in 2009?
practice back in 2009?

15
15

A.
A.

That's —— yes, one, one day.
That's -- yes, one, one day.

16
16

Q.
Q.

So just to be clear: You were
You were
So just to be clear:

17
17

working six days a week back in 2009,
working six days a week back in 2009,

18
18

correct, five at Jamaica, one on
correct, five at Jamaica, one on your

19
19

own?
own?

20
20

A.
A.

I work
somebody.
I work with somebody.

21

Q.
Q.

So you are working six days a
So you are working six days a

22
22

week, five at Jamaica Hospital and one in
week, five at Jamaica Hospital and one in

23

private practice in 2009?
private practice in 2009?

24
24
25

25

A.
A.

Five
a week after I come
Five days a week after I come

-— after five o'clock on Friday.
-- after five o'clock on Friday.

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 60 of 100

/t)

Page 260
260
1
2
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

So five o'clock on Fridays you
So five o'clock on Fridays

3
3

see private patients in your own
see private patients in
own

4

practice; is that what you're saying?
practice; is that
saying?

5

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

6
6

Q.
Q.

How many hours do you usually
How
hours do
usually

7
7

do that?
do that?

8

A.
A.

Four hours.
Four hours.

9
9

Q.
Q.

Could you get referrals from
you
referrals from

10
10

11

v
F.

time to time from patients up on the
time to time from patients
on the
psych 3 unit?
psych 3 unit?

12
12

m
.)

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

13
13

Q.
Q.

Who refers them to you: the
Who refers them to you:
the

14
14

physicians up there, the nurses, anybody
physicians up there, the nurses, anybody

15
15

else?
else?

16
16

A.
A.

Social worker.
Social worker.

17
17

Q.
Q.

Social workers?
Social workers?

18
18

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

19
19

MR. CALLAN: Counsel, does this
MR. CALLAN: Counsel, does this

20
20

have anything remotely to do with Mr.
have
to do
Mr.

21

Schoolcraft?
Schoolcraft?

22
22

MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE:

I don't know yet.
I don't know yet.

23
23

MR. CALLAN: Has he told you he
MR. CALLAN: Has he told you he

24
24
)

was seeing Dr. Aldana-Bernier in her
was seeing Dr. Aldana-Bernier in her

25
25

office?
office?

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 61 of 100

/»-,

. I

Page
Page 261

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

MR. SUCKLE: Are you saying her
MR. SUCKLE:
Are you saying her

3
3

resume is not part of my questions?
resumé is not
of
questions?

4

MR. CALLAN: I'm just asking.
MR. CALLAN: I'm just asking.

5

You have been going for hours here and
You have been going for hours here

6
6

now we have gone down this road to
now we have gone
this road to

7
7

nowhere. II would kind of like to get
nowhere.
would kind of like to get

8

it back.
it back.

9
9

This all has to do with you
This all has to do with you

10
10

11

can smoke in the inpatient unit or not
can smoke in the inpatient unit or not

12
12

II

handing her a piece of
if they
handing her a piece of paper if they

which I will be willing to stipulate
which I will be willing to stipulate

13
13

by the way that no smoking is allowed.
by the way that no smoking is allowed.

14
14

I think it is Rule No. 1
I think it is
No. 1

15
15

assuming that's Psych
3 is
assuming that's Psych Unit 3 is

16
16

Jamaica Hospital.
Jamaica Hospital.

17
17

MR. SUCKLE:
Are you enjoying
MR. SUCKLE: Are you enjoying

18
18

our stay here?
extending our stay here?

19
19

Q.
Q.

20
20

So did you see Mr. Schoolcraft
So did you see Mr. Schoolcraft

in your private practice?
in your private practice?

21

A.
A.

No.
No.

22
22

Q.
Q.

see
officers in
Did you see police officers in

23
23

your private practice?
your
practice?

24
24

. ,)

A.
A.

No.
No.

25
25

Q.
Q.

a Captain
tell
Did a Captain Lauterborn tell

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 62 of 100

A)

Page 262
Page 262

1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2
2

you that from his observation of Mr.
you that from his observation of Mr.

3
3

Schoolcraft as he observed Mr.
Schoolcraft as he
Mr.

4

Schoolcraft on October 31st, 2009, that
Schoolcraft on October 31st, 2009, that

5

Mr. Schoolcraft was fit for duty?
Mr. Schoolcraft was fit for duty?

6
6

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.

7
7

Q.
Q.

Did he tell you that?
he tell you that?

8

A.
A.

I did not meet him.
I did not
him.

9

Q.
Q•

So
I correct that you got
So am I correct that you got

10
10

11

barricading him [sic] from some police
barricading
[sic] from some

12
12

officers, but you didn't get the
officers, but you
the

13
13

histories from other police officers like
histories from other police officers like

14
14

)

the history of Mr. Schoolcraft
the history of Mr. Schoolcraft

Captain Lauterborn;
I correct?
Captain Lauterborn; am I correct?

15
15

MR. CALLAN:
Objection to form.
MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.

16
16

MR. LEE: Objection to form.
MR. LEE:
Objection to form.

17
17

MR. RADOMISLI:
Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to

18
18

form.
form.

19
19

A.
A.

20
20
21

I
know the officer.
I don't know the officer.

haven't met him.
haven't met him.
Q.

Well, it was Mr. Schoolcraft's
Mr. Schoolcraft's
Well, it

22
22

captain.
Are you aware that Captain
captain. Are you aware that Captain

23
23

Lauterborn was his captain?
Lauterborn was his captain?

24
24
)

I

25
25

MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

A.
A.

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No.
No.
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4/s)

Page 263
Page 263

1
2
2

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

Q.

So you were not aware when you
So you

3
3

signed the form on November 3rd, to admit
signed the form on November 3rd, to admit

4

Mr. Schoolcraft to the hospital that his
Mr. Schoolcraft to the hospital that

5

captain said that he was fit for duty?
captain said that he was fit for duty?

6
6

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

7
7

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

8

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection.

9
9

Q.
Q

10
10

You
that?
You did not know that?

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

11

No, I didn't know that.
No, I
know that.

12
12

'I

A.
A.
Q.
Q.

Would you like to have known
like to have known

13
13

that information, would it have helped
that information,
it

14
14

you in your
of Mr.
you in your assessment of Mr.

15
15

Schoolcraft?
Schoolcraft?

16
16

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

17
17

MR. CALLAN:
I join in the
MR. CALLAN: I join in the

18
18

objection.
objection.

19
19

Q.
Q.

Would you have liked to know,
Would you have liked to know,

20
20

would that have
would that have helped you in your
in your

21

assessment of Mr. Schoolcraft?
assessment of Mr. Schoolcraft?

22
22

23
23

MR. CALLAN:
If it's true.
MR. CALLAN: If it's true.

A.
A.

I didn't even know when he came
I
when he came

24
24

J

to the hospital, I
see any
to the hospital, I didn't see any

25
25

officer. II don't remember if I seen an
officer.
don't remember if I seen an

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Page 264
Page 264

/4)
\

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
'2

officer at the time when I saw Mr.
officer at the time when I saw Mr.

3
3

Schoolcraft.
Schoolcraft.

4

MR. CALLAN: Doctor, he didn't
MR. CALLAN:
Doctor, he didn't

5

say he came to the hospital.
say he came to the hospital. I know
I know

6
6

it's getting late in the day.
it's getting late in the day. He is
He is

7
7

asking you to make an assumption about
asking you to make an assumption about

8

something. He asking you a question.
something.
He asking you a question.

9
9

He didn't say this person came to the
He didn't say this
came to the

10
10

hospital so just listen carefully to
hospital so just listen carefully to

11

the question.
the question.

12
12
'

13
13

MR. SUCKLE: Read that back.
MR. SUCKLE:
Read that back.

14
14

)

Go ahead, Counsel.
Go ahead, Counsel.

[The requested portion of the
[The requested portion of the

15
15

record was read.]
record was read.]

16
16

Q.
Q.

My question is: Would you have
My question is: Would you have

17
17

liked to know, would it have helped you
liked to know,
it have

18
18

in your assessment of Mr. Schoolcraft
in your assessment of Mr. Schoolcraft

19
19

that his captain said he was fit for duty
that his captain said he was fit for duty

20
20

on October 31st, 2009?
on October 31st, 2009?

21
22
22

MR. CALLAN: On October 31st?
MR. CALLAN:
On October 31st?

23
23

MR. SUCKLE: Yes.
MR. SUCKLE: Yes.

24
24
>

MR. KRETZ: Objection.
MR. KRETZ: Objection.

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN:
Objection.

25
25

A.
A.

212-267-6868

Yes, I would.
Yes, I would.
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 65 of 100

Page 265
L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
2

Q.
Q.

Would that have changed your
that
changed your

3
3

opinion regarding whether or not Mr.
opinion regarding whether or
Mr.

4

Schoolcraft needed to be admitted to the
Schoolcraft needed to be
to the

5

hospital if you had known that Captain
hospital if you
known that Captain

6
6

Lauterborn had said that Mr. Schoolcraft
Lauterborn had said that Mr. Schoolcraft

7
7

was fit for duty on October 31st, 2009?
was fit for duty on October 31st, 2009?
MR. RADOMISLI: Can you just
MR. RADOMISLI: Can you just

8
9
9

define when he said that?
define when he said that?
MR. SUCKLE: On that day,
MR. SUCKLE:
On that day,

10
10
11

October 31st, 2009.
October 31st, 2009.
MR. RADOMISLI: Before Mr.
MR. RADOMISLI: Before Mr.

12
12
13
13

Schoolcraft left?
left?

14
14

MR. SUCKLE: II just want to ask
MR. SUCKLE:
just want to ask

15
15

the question. You can narrow it down
the question. You can narrow it down

16
16

anyway you want when your turn comes.
anyway you
when your turn comes.
Let's have a question and an
Let's
question and an

17
17
18
18

answer.
answer.
MR. RADOMISLI: I would like a
MR. RADOMISLI: I would like a

19
19

20
20

time frame.
time frame.
MR. SUCKLE: I know what you
MR. SUCKLE:
I know what you

21
22
22

want.
want. II asked a question.
asked a question.
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to

23
23
24
24

form.
form.
MR. SHAFFER: I join in the
MR. SHAFFER:
I join in the

25
25

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 66 of 100

Page 266
Page 266
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

objection.
objection.

3
3

Q.
Q.

Would you have changed your
have changed your

4

opinion had you known on October 31st,
opinion had you known on October 31st,

5

2009, at 21:30 hours, Captain Lauterborn
2009, at 21:30 hours, Captain Lauterborn

6
6

said that Mr. Schoolcraft was fit for
said that Mr.
was fit for

7
7

duty, would that have changed your
duty, would that have changed your

8

opinion?
opinion?
MR. KRETZ: Objection.
MR. KRETZ: Objection.

9
10
10

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

11

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.

12
12

13
13

Q.

Would you have admitted him is
have admitted him is

the question?
the question?

14
14

A.
A.

Yes, I would have admitted him.
Yes, I
admitted him.

15
15

Q.
Q.

How would it have changed your
How
it
changed your

16
16

opinion. You said it would change your
opinion.
You said it would change your

17
17

opinion?
opinion?

18
18
19
19

MR. CALLAN: You asked if she
MR. CALLAN:
You asked if she
would have
would have liked to have known.
to
known.

20
20
21

MR. SUCKLE: I did ask her.
MR. SUCKLE:
I did ask her.
Q.
Q.

Would it change your opinion if
change your opinion if

22
22

you knew that Captain Lauterborn on
you knew
Captain Lauterborn on

23
23

October 31st, 2009, at 21:30 hours,
October 31st, 2009,
21:30 hours,

24
24

deemed Mr. Schoolcraft fit for duty?
deemed Mr. Schoolcraft fit for duty?

25
25

A.
A.

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It would not change my opinion
not change
opinion.
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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 67 of 100

Page 267
267

//I

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2

I would talk to maybe the captain, and I
I would talk to maybe the captain, and I

3

will tell him what is going on, and I
will tell him what is going on, and I

4

will make a decision together again with
will make a decision together again with

5

the chairman if he should be admitted or
the chairman if he
be admitted or

6

discharged.
discharged.

7

Q.
Q.

And you would talk to the
would talk to the

8

captain because you want to verify that
captain because you want to
that

9

information, correct?
information, correct?

10

MR. KRETZ: Objection.
MR. KRETZ: Objection.

11

MR. CALLAN: Same objection.
MR. CALLAN:
Same objection.

12
13

Q.
Q.

Is that why you would have
Is that
you

talked to the captain?
talked to the captain?

14

MR. CALLAN: Verify what
MR. CALLAN: Verify what

15

information, what information,
information, what information,

16

Counsel?
Counsel?
MR. SUCKLE: She said she would
MR. SUCKLE:
She said she would

17
18

talk to the captain.
talk to the captain.

19

Q.
Q.

20
21
22
23

Why would you have talked to
have talked to

the captain?
the captain?
A.
A.

To verify that he said he was
To
that he said
was

fit for duty.
for duty.
Q.
Q.

Did you speak to any officers
speak to
officers

24

J

to verify that he had barricaded himself
to verify that he

25

in his house?
in his house?

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-

_/
/

1

L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.
A.
A.

3
4

I get it from the information
I get it from the information

in the report.
the report.
Q.
Q.

5
6

Page 268
Page 268

speak to any
Did you speak to any police

officer to verify he was acting bizarre?
officer to verify he was acting bizarre?

7

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.

8

MR. CALLAN: Asked and answered.
MR. CALLAN:
Asked and answered.

9

Q.
Q.

Did you speak to any officers?
speak to any officers?

10

A.
A.

It's
reported and
It's been reported and written

11

down in the document.
down in the document.

12

MR. KRETZ: Read that back.
MR. KRETZ: Read that back.

13

[The requested portion of the
[The
of the

14

record was read.]
record was read.]

15

Q.
Q.

Seroquel, do you know what that
Seroquel, do you know what that

17

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

18

Q.
Q.'

What is it?
What is it?

19

A.
A.

second generation
A second generation

16

20

is?
is?

antipsychotic.
antipsychotic.

21

Q.
Q.

22

disorders?
disorders?

23

A.
A.

24

Is that also used for sleep
Is that also
for sleep

Sleep, depression, bipolar,
Sleep, depression, bipolar,

used for psychosis.
used for psychosis.
MR. SMITH:
We are going to take
MR. SMITH: We are going to take

25

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 69 of 100

Page 269
Page 269

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2

a short break to see what we have
a short break to see
we have

3

left.
left.
It's 5:24. We are going off the
It's 5:24.
We are going off the

4
5

record.
record.

6

MR. CALLAN: All right.
MR. CALLAN: All right.

7

[Discussion held off the
[Discussion
off the

8

record.]
record.]
[Whereupon, at 5:24 p.m , a
[Whereupon, at 5:24 p.m.,

9
10

recess was taken.]
recess was taken.]
[Whereupon, at 5:38 p.m
[Whereupon, at 5:38 p.m.,

11
12

14

the

testimony continued.]
testimony continued.]
MR. SMITH: Back on the record.
MR. SMITH:
Back on the record.

13

It is 5:38 p.m.
It is 5:38 p.m.
MR. RADOMISLI: Just before you
MR. RADOMISLI:
Just before you

15
16

start asking questions, I sent an
start
questions, I sent an

17

email to my associate at the office
email to
associate
the office

18

asking him to do a search in our
asking
to do a search in our

19

system to determine if we ever
system to determine if
ever

20

provided with you document Psych 3
provided with
Psych 3

21

Unit Rules, according to his search,
Unit Rules, according to his search,

22

there is nothing on our system
there is
on our system

23

we ever did.
indicating we ever did.

I ask you send us by within a
I ask
send us
a

24

)

H

25

week an explanation how
week an explanation how you obtained
obtained

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 70 of 100

Page 270
Page 270
1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

this document. I'm not saying we
this document. I'm not saying we

3

didn't give it to you, all I'm saying
didn't give it to you, all I'm saying

4

is according to
associate
on
is according to my associate based on

5

his search, there is no indication we
his search, there is no indication we

6

did.
did.
MR. SUCKLE: II will double-check
MR. SUCKLE:
will double-check

7
8

my records, but I'm fairly confident
my records, but I'm fairly

9

that it came from you.
that it came
you.
MR. CALLAN: It didn't come from
MR. CALLAN:
It didn't come from

10
11

me.
me.

I can tell you that.
I can tell
that.
MR. SUCKLE:
Maybe the house
MR. SUCKLE: Maybe the house

12
13

painter gave it.
painter gave it.

14

Q.
Q.

15

Doctor, I know it's late. We
Doctor, I know it's late.

are getting there.
are getting there.
Doctor, in your position as
Doctor, in
as

16
17

employee of the hospital, do
get a
employee of the hospital, do you get a

18

performance evaluation, do you
performance evaluation, do you get

19

evaluated in your performance?
evaluated in
performance?

20

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

21

Q.

Is that something done
Is that something done

22

annually, some other way?
annually, some
way?

23

A.
A.

Annually.
Annually.

24

Q.
Q.

Are they written evaluations?
Are they written evaluations?

25

A.
A.

Are they written, yes.
Are they written, yes.

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 71 of 100

"3

Page 271
1
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.

in their evaluations,
And in their evaluations,

3

without discussing
without discussing at this point what the
this
the

4

evaluations were, can you tell me what
evaluations were, can you tell me what

5

some of items are that are considered in
some of items are
are considered in

6

your evaluation?
your evaluation?

7

A.
A.

I don't have a copy so-it's
I
a copy so it's

8

hard for me to say. We talk about
hard for me to say. We talk about

9

performance. We talk about ability to
performance.
We talk about ability to

10

relate with other staff. We talk about
We talk about
relate with other staff.

11

clinical judgment. We talk about if we
clinical judgment. We talk about if we

12

have this sense of cooperativeness with
have this sense of cooperativeness with

13

the department. We also talk about our
the department. We also talk about our

14

knowledge of medicine or psychiatry.
knowledge of medicine or psychiatry.

15

That's all I can remember.
That's all I can remember.

16

Q.
Q.

In your
has
of
In your evaluation has any of

17

your evaluations
your clinical
your evaluations criticized your clinical

18

judgment?
judgment?
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection based
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection based

19
20

on the on the --

21

MR. CALLAN:
Yeah, objection.
MR. CALLAN: Yeah, objection.

22

MR. RADOMISLI:
-- and based on
MR. RADOMISLI: -- and based on

23

Education Law 6527.
Education
6527.
MR. CALLAN: I join in the
MR. CALLAN:
I join in the

24
25

objection, and
directed not to
objection, and you're directed not to

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 72 of 100

Page 272
Page 272

/w)

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
2

answer that question.
answer that question.

3
3

0Q.
2•

When you talk
When you talk about

4

performance, is there any relationship
performance, is there

5

between performance and the number of
between performance
the
of

6
6

patients seen in your evaluation?
patients seen in your evaluation?

7
7

8

MR. CALLAN: Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the
question.
question.

9

MR. SUCKLE: Just generally not
MR. SUCKLE:
Just generally not

10
10

only her.
only her.

11

Q.

Generally, is part of your
Generally, is
of your

n,

12
12

performance evaluation based on the
performance evaluation
on the

~M§

13
13

number of patients seen?
number of patients seen?
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection based
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection based

14
14
15
15

on privilege, but I can't direct her
on privilege, but I can't direct

16
16

not to answer.
not to answer.
MR. SUCKLE: I don't think
MR. SUCKLE:
I don't think

17
17
18
18

that's privileged. She just gave me
that's privileged. She just gave

19
19

generally categories of evaluations.
generally categories of evaluations.
MR. RADOMISLI: You're asking
MR. RADOMISLI: You're asking

20
20
2121

her?
her?
MR. SUCKLE: I'm asking
MR. SUCKLE: I'm asking

22
22
23
23

generally.
generally.
MR. LEE: Objection.
MR. LEE: Objection.

24
24
53

25
25

Q
Q.

Generally, in the category of
Generally, in the
of

‘J

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1
2
2

performance, does that include number of
performance, does
include
of

3
3

patients seen?
patients seen?

4

A.
A.

No.
No.

5

Q.
Q.

Do you know how many patients
Do

you saw last year at Jamaica Hospital?
you saw last year at Jamaica Hospital?

6
6
7
7

A.
A.

I would not remember that.
I
remember that.

8

Q.
Q.

Is there a way that you can
Is there
that you can

ascertain that kind of information?
ascertain that
of information?

9
9

A.
A.

10
10

I have to go to the financial
I have to go to the financial

11

department and see how many patients I
department and see
patients I

N

12
12

have seen.
have seen.

:.)

13
13
14
14

[

Q.
Q.

I don't know.
I
know.
That would be the same for
That
the same for

patients that you saw in 2009?
patients that you saw in 2009?
MR. CALLAN: You mean did she
MR. CALLAN:
You mean did she

15
15
16
16

see the exact number of patients?
see the exact number of patients?

17
17

Q.
Q.

In order to find out how many
In order to find out

18
18

you saw, you would have to go to the
you saw, you
have to go to the

19
19

financial department?
financial department?

20
20

A.
A.

Financial department because
Financial

21

they have to do the billing.
they have to do the billing. I don't
I don't

22
22

bill.
bill.

23
23

Q.
Q.

So in order to find out how
So in order to find out how

24
24
>

many patients you saw if
many patients you saw if you wanted, you
wanted, you

25
25

would have to go to the
would have to go to the billing or
or

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L . ALDANA-BERNIER
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financial department, correct?
financial department, correct?

3

MR. CALLAN: Do you know if they
MR. CALLAN: Do you know if they

4

can isolate it by doctor name or are
can isolate it by doctor name or are

5

you assuming?
you assuming?

_

6

THE WITNESS: I do not know how.
THE WITNESS: I do not know how.

7

MR. CALLAN: Just tell him that.
MR. CALLAN: Just tell him that.

8

MR. SMITH:
Let her speak.
MR. SMITH: Let her speak.

9
10

Don't interrupt. Let her answer the
Don't interrupt. Let her answer the

question for God's sake.
question for
sake.

‘

MR. CALLAN: Do you know for a
MR. CALLAN: Do you know for a

11
12

fact if they
the software or
fact if they have the software or

13

computer
to isolate it
computer program to isolate it by

14

doctor per patient, do you
that?
doctor per patient, do you know that?

15
16
17

THE WITNESS: No, I don't.
THE WITNESS: No, I don't.

Q.

Doctor, does Jamaica Hospital
Doctor, does Jamaica Hospital

have a
department?
have a billing department?

18

A.
A.

do.
They do.

19

Q.
Q.

When you see a patient, are you
see a patient, are you
When

20

required to fill out any
so
required to fill out any paperwork so

21

that the patient's insurance company will
that the patient's insurance company will

22

be
if there is an insurance
be billed if there is an insurance

23

company?
company?

24
25

A.
A.

I'm
the one that do the
I'm not the one that do the

billing.
billing.

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2
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

Do you fill out any forms or
Do you fill out any forms or

3
3

documents that go to billing so they can
documents that go to
so they can

4

bill the patient for your services?
bill the patient for your services?

5

A.
A.

Yes, I fill out a form.
Yes, I fill out a form.

6
6

Q.
Q.

What is the nature of that
What is the nature of that

7
7
8
9
9
10
10

form, what is it?
form, what is it?
A.
A.

It's a form that I sign that I
It's a form that I sign that I

saw the patient.
saw the patient.
Q.
Q.

Do patients who come in with
Do
who come in with

11

private insurance, do they get admitted,
private insurance, do they
admitted,

12
12

do you need approval from time to time
do you need approval
time to time

13
13

from private insurance before they get
from private insurance before they get

14
14

admitted; just generally we're talking
admitted; just generally we're talking

15
15

about?
about?

16
16

A
A.

Let me see.
Let me see.

17
17

Q
Q.

I'm talking generally.
talking generally.

18
18

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

19
19

Q
Q.

Not Mr. Schoolcraft.
Not Mr. Schoolcraft.

20
20

A
A.

Yes.
Yes.

21

Q.
Q.

What
What about for Medicare, do
for Medicare, do

22
22

they need approval before a patient is
they need approval before a
is

23
23

admitted?
admitted?

24
24

A.
A.

That depends if it's an HMO.
That depends if it's
HMO.

25
25

Q.
Q.

So some HMOs require approval
So some HMOs require approval

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L.

1
2

and some aren't HMOs.
some aren't HMOs.

3

And does the federal government
And does the federal

4

require prior approval on their Medicare?
require prior approval on their Medicare?

5
6
7
8

A.
A.

If they are not HMOs, you don't
If
are not HMOs, you don't

to ask for authorization.
to ask for authorization.
Q.
Q.

How about Medicaid, is prior
How
Medicaid, is

approval required before admission?
approval
before admission?

9

A.
A.

No.
No.

10

Q.
Q.

Just as a housekeeping thing:
Just as a housekeeping thing:

11

Are you paid for your overtime hours?
Are you paid for your overtime hours?

12

A.
A.

No.
No.

13

Q.
Q.

You have actually in front of
You have actually in
of

14

you, you know at some point IAB, internal
you, you know at some point IAB, internal

15

affairs from the New York City Police
affairs from the New York

16

Department did come to the hospital based
Department did come to the hospital

17

on the records in front of you, correct?
on the records in front of you, correct?
MR. CALLAN: Is that a question,
MR. CALLAN:
Is that a question,

18

does she know that?
does she
that?

19

MR. SUCKLE: Yes.
SUCKLE: Yes.
MR.

20
Q.
Q.

Based on the record in front of
on the record in front of

23

A.
A.

Yes, I know there is a note.
Yes, I
there is a note.

24

Q.
Q.

What is the date of that note?
What is the date of that note?

25

A.
A.

That's 11/2/2009, five o'clock
That's 11/2/2009, five o'clock

21
22

you?
you?

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1
2
2
3
3

in the afternoon.
in the afternoon.
Q.
Q.

So that note was in the chart
So that note was in the chart

4

before you signed your November 3rd,
before you signed your November 3rd,

5

mental hygiene admission form, correct?
mental hygiene admission form, correct?

6
6

A.
A.

That's correct.
That's correct.

7
7

Q.
Q.

So you know that internal
So you
that internal

8

affairs had come to the hospital before
affairs had come to the hospital

9
9

you decided to admit Mr. Schoolcraft to
you decided to
Mr. Schoolcraft to

10
10

the hospital?
the hospital?
MR. CALLAN:
CALLAN: Objection. She
MR.
Objection.
She

11
11
[[

12
12

testified earlier she made the
testified earlier she
the

[AD

13
13

decision to admit him on the 2nd not
decision to admit him on the 2nd not

14
14

on the 3rd. She filled out the form
on the 3rd. She filled out the form

15
15

on the 3rd. You're mischaracterizing
on the 3rd. You're mischaracterizing

16
16

testimony.
testimony.

17
17

Q.
Q.

Before you filled out the form
Before
filled out the form

18
18

to admit Mr. Schoolcraft under the Mental
to admit Mr. Schoolcraft under the Mental

19
19

Hygiene Law, you knew that IAB had come
Hygiene Law, you
that IAB
come

20
20

to the hospital, correct?
to the hospital, correct?
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.

21
22
22

A.
A.

The notes are here from 11/2.
The notes are
from 11/2.

23
23

Q.
Q.

So the answer is yes, you knew
So the answer is yes,
knew

24
24
8}
/

that IAB had come to the hospital before
that IAB had come to the hospital

25
25

you signed the admission forms on 11/3,
you signed the admission forms
11/3,

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2
2
3
3

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
correct?
correct?
A.
A.

I must have read the notes.
I must
read the notes.

4

MR. SMITH: What was the answer?
MR. SMITH:
What was the answer?

5

THE WITNESS: I must have read
THE WITNESS: I must have read

6
6

the note.
the note.

7
7

Q.

Did you speak to the officer
Did you speak to the officer

8

from IAB and ask them whether or not Mr.
from IAB and ask
whether or
Mr.

9

Schoolcraft had told them the story about
Schoolcraft had told them the story about

10
10

the problem with his supervisor that Mr.
the problem with his supervisor that Mr.

11

Schoolcraft told to you?
Schoolcraft
to you?

12
12

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

13
13

A.
A.

14
14

not there.
there.

15
15

there anymore [indicating].
there anymore [indicating].

16
16

Q.
Q.

It was at five o'clock.
It was at five o'clock.
It was at 9:30.
was
9:30.

I was
I was

I'm not
I'm not

In fact one of the officers
In
one of the officers

17
17

from IAB stapled -- gave his card and it
from IAB stapled -- gave his card and it

18
18

was taped to the chart, correct?
was taped to the chart, correct?
MR. CALLAN: She said she wasn't
MR. CALLAN:
She said she wasn't

19
19
20
20

there when they were there.
there when they
there.

21

Q.
Q.

22
22

The chart you have in front of
The chart you have in front of

you, correct?
you, correct?

23
23

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

24
24

Q.
Q.

Yes. And when you went to sign
Yes.
And when you went to sign

25
25

your admission under the Mental Hygiene
your admission under the Mental Hygiene

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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

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2

Law on November 3rd, that card was in the
Law on November 3rd, that
was in the

3
3

chart, correct?
chart, correct?

4
5

MR. CALLAN: How do we know when
MR. CALLAN: How do we know when
the card was stapled in?
the card was stapled in?
MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE: Let her answer.
Let her answer. If
If

6
6
7
7

she doesn't know, she'll tell me.
she doesn't know, she'll tell me.

8
9

MR. CALLAN: You're making these
MR. CALLAN: You're making these
things up in your question.
things up in
question.
MR. SUCKLE: I'm making up
MR. SUCKLE:
I'm making up

10
10
11

nothing. I'm -nothing.
I'm --

_

12
12

MR. CALLAN:
MR. CALLAN: You are. You said
You are.
You said

)

13
13

the IAB officer stapled the card into
the IAB officer
the card into

14
14

the card.
the card.

15
15

MR. SUCKLE: II didn't say that.
MR. SUCKLE:
didn't say that.

16
16

MR. CALLAN: Who stabled that
MR. CALLAN: Who stabled that

17
17

in?
in?

18
18
19
19
20
20

21
22
22
23
23

MR. SUCKLE: Nobody, it's taped.
MR. SUCKLE:
Nobody, it's taped.
Q.
Q.

Can we have an answer to the
Can we have an
to the

question, please?
question, please?
A.
A.

I don't remember. I do not
I do not
I don't remember.

remember seeing this card.
remember seeing this card.
Q.

If that card was in the chart,
If that card was in the chart,

24
24

mg.)

would you have
would you have called that officer from
that officer from

25
25

internal affairs to verify Mr.
internal affairs to
Mr.

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2
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L.
L. ALDANA-BERNIER

Schoolcraft's story?
Schoolcraft's story?

3
3

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN:
Objection.

4

MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

5

MR. SMITH: What was the answer?
MR. SMITH:
What was the answer?

6
6

THE REPORTER: I didn't get an
THE REPORTER:
I didn't get an

7
7

answer yet.
answer yet.

8

Q.
Q.

What's your answer.
answer.
What's

9
9

A.
A.

I
know because I don't
I wouldn't know because I don't

10
10
11

know if I saw the card or not.
know if I saw the
or not.
Q.
Q.

you seen the card
Had you seen the card before

g
5

12
12

you signed the mental
admission
you signed the mental hygiene admission

)

13
13

on the 3rd, would you have called
on the 3rd, would you have called

14
14

internal affairs?
internal affairs?

15
15

A.
A.

I did not see these cards
I did not see these cards

16
16

before so I don't
if I
before so I don't know if I would have

17
17

called internal affairs.
called internal affairs.

18
18

19
19
20
20
21

22
22
23
23

Q.
Q.

So
are saying you know
So now you are saying you know

you did not see the cards?
you did not see the cards?

A.
A.

_

I do not
if I saw these
I do not know if I saw these

cards.
don't remember seeing them.
cards. II don't remember seeing them.

Q.
Q.

you
remember if you
And you don't remember if you

would have called internal affairs?
would have called internal affairs?

24
24
D

A.
A.

I didn't see the card.
I didn't see the card.

25
25

Q.
Q.

You know
not see the
You know you did not see the

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L.

2

cards?
cards?

3

A.
A.

4
5

remember.
remember.
Q.
Q.

I do not know. I do not
I do not know. I do not
It was that 2009.
It was that 2009.
So the answer is, am I correct,
So the answer is, am I correct,

6

you don't know if you saw the cards and
you don't know if you saw the cards and

7

you don't know what you would have done
you don't know what you
done

8

if you did see the cards, am I correct,
if you did see the cards, am I correct,

9

is that the answer?
is that the answer?

10

MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

11

You can answer.
You
answer.

12

I

Q.
Q.
A.
A.

I do not know if I would have
I do
if I
have

13
14
15

called them.
called them.
Q.

Looking at the note of November
at the note of

2nd, 2009, at 9:30, do you see that note?
2nd, 2009, at 9:30, do you see that note?

16

A.
A.

P.m.?
P.m.?

17

Q.
Q.

Yes.
Yes.
Do
see that note?
Do you see that note?

18
19

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

20

Q.
Q.

And that is before your
that is
your

21

November 3rd, 1:20 note where you signed
November 3rd, 1:20 note where you signed

22

the form, the mental hygiene admission,
the form, the mental hygiene admission,

23

correct?
correct?

24

I

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

25

Q.

And did you read the chart
read the

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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

where it says, "Patient has
where it says, "Patient has been seen and
seen and

3
3

interviewed by Detective Steven P. Wacter
interviewed by
Steven P.

4
4

[phonetic] and Sergeant Scott from
[phonetic]
Scott from

5

Internal Affairs Bureau"?
Internal Affairs Bureau"?

6
6

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

7

Q•

Q.

Would you want to know what
you
to

8

internal affairs had to see about Mr.
internal affairs had to see about Mr.

9
9

Schoolcraft in coming to your opinion
Schoolcraft in
to
opinion

10

regarding whether or not he needed to be
regarding whether or
to

11
11

admitted to the hospital?
admitted to the hospital?

_

12
12

_I

MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection.

13
13

A.
A.

I was wondering why the
I was
why the

14
14

attending put this note and did not write
attending put this
and did not write

15
15

any note about what interaction happened
any note about what interaction

16
16

with internal affairs.
with internal affairs.

17
17
18
18

Q.
Q.

When you say you were wondering
When you say you were wondering

about it -it --

19
19

A.
A.

There's nothing.
There's nothing.

20
20

Q.
Q.

When were
When were you wondering about
wondering about

22
22

A.
A.

Now.
Now.

23
23

Q.
Q.

Why were you wondering about
were you wondering

A.
A.

Should have written a note.
Should have
a note.

21

24
24
)

25
25

it?
it?

it?
it?

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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

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2

Q.
Q.

When
When you say "should have
say "should have

3

written a note," what should
written a note," what should he have
have

4

written about?
written about?

5
6

A.
A.

His interaction with internal
His interaction
internal

affairs.
.affairs.
Q.
Q.

7

Would that have been helpful to
that
helpful to

8

you in your care and treatment with Mr.
you in your care
with Mr.

9

Schoolcraft?
Schoolcraft?
A.
A.

In deciding to admit him or
In
to admit him or

12

Q.
Q.

Yes.
Yes.

13

A.
A.‘

I already made my decision
I
decision

10
11

|

I

not?
not?

14

before that. On 11/1 I made the decision
before that. On 11/1 I made the decision

15

of admission.
of admission.

16
17
18
19
20
21
22

Q.
Q.

Was
Was your decision irreversible
decision irreversible

once you made it?
once you made it?
A.
A.

I think that he would benefit
I think that he would benefit

from inpatient admission.
from
admission.
Q.
Q.

When
When you say "he would
say "he

benefit," what do you mean?
benefit,"
do
mean?
A.
A.

I thought at the time in 2009
I thought
the time in 2009

23

that he would be a danger to himself or
that he would be
danger to
or

24

others.
others.

25

Q.
Q.

The question was: Would the
The question was: Would the

/,

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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L .

1
2

notes that you think would have been
notes that you think

3

helpful in coming to your decision as to
as to
helpful in coming to your

4

whether or not Mr.
needed to
whether or not Mr. Schoolcraft needed to

5

be admitted?
be admitte d?
MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI:
Objection to

6
7

form.
form.

8

MR. CALLAN: How would she know?
MR. CALLAN: How would she know?

9

MR. SUCKLE: She was the one
MR. SUCKLE:
She was the one

10

that said something should have been
should have been
that s aid

11

there.
there.

12

MR. CALLAN: You are the one
MR. CALLAN: You are the one

13

talking about cards stapled into a
into a
talkin g about cards

14

chart.
chart.
MR. SUCKLE: The record is what
MR. SUCKLE:
The record is what

15
16

the re cord is. You are just playing
the record is. You are just playing

17

games now.
games now.

18

MR. CALLAN: It's nonsense.
MR. CALLAN: It's nonsense.

19

MR. SUCKLE: It's nonsense?
MR. SUCKLE:
It's nonsense?

20

MR. CALLAN: Right.
MR. CALLAN: Right.

21

MR. SUCKLE: A doctor has a note
MR. SUCKLE:
A doctor has a note

22

in front of her and she signs a day
of
and she signs a day
in

23

later, you think it's nonsense.
later, you think it's nonsense.

24

MR. CALLAN: It is.
MR. CALLAN: It is.

25

MR. SUCKLE: Let's go.
MR. SUCKLE: Let's go.

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 85 of 100

Page 285

/~

I
5'

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
MR. CALLAN:
MR. CALLAN:

2
2

She's got one note
She's got one note

3
3

in the chart, it's only taken us six
in the chart, it's only taken us six

4

hours to question her so....
hours to question
so....
MR. SUCKLE: Maybe we should
MR. SUCKLE:
Maybe we should

5
6
6

have taken six hours to evaluate the
have taken six hours to evaluate the

7
7

patient.
patient.

8

Q.

5

9

The notes you said should have
The notes you said should

been there, would that have been helpful
been there, would that have been helpful

10
10

to you in your decision to admit Mr.
to you in your
to admit Mr.

11

Schoolcraft?
Schoolcraft?

N

12
12

MR. SHAFFER: Objection to form.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection to form.

.)

13
13

MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.
MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.

14
14

MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE:

15
15

It hasn't been
It

answered.
answered.

16
16

MR. RADOMISLI: It has actually.
MR. RADOMISLI: It has actually.

17
17

MR. CALLAN: Asked and answered,
MR. CALLAN: Asked and answered,

18
18

Counsel.
Counsel.
There is nothing in the note
There is
in the note

19
19

20
20

except that IAB was there.
that IAB was there.
MR. SUCKLE: The note she said
MR. SUCKLE:
The note she said

21
22
22

should have been there.
have been there.
MR. CALLAN: She is supposed to
MR. CALLAN:
She is supposed to

23
23
24
24
>

make up a note
make up a note now and answer a
and answer a

25
25

hypothetical?
hypothetical?

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Page 286
Page 286
L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1

MR. SUCKLE: She said a note
MR. SUCKLE:
She said a note

2
3

should be there. I'm asking about the
should be there. I'm asking about the

4

note that should have been there.
note that
have been there.

5

A.
A.

Not my note.
note.

6

Q.
Q.

I understand.
I understand.
The note that should have been
The note that should
been

7
8

there, would they have mattered in your
there, would they have
in your

9

decision to admit Mr. Schoolcraft?
decision to
Mr. Schoolcraft?

10

MR. SHAFFER: Objection to form.
MR. SHAFFER:
Objection to form.

11

MR. RADOMISLI: Objection to
MR. RADOMISLI:
Objection to

12

form, asked and answered.
form,
and answered.
MR. SUCKLE: II didn't get an
MR. SUCKLE:
didn't get an

13
14

answer.
answer.

I've asked it.
[I've asked it.

MR. SHAFFER: It's impossible to
MR. SHAFFER:
It's impossible to

15
16

answer the question. The information
answer the question. The information

17

doesn't exist.
doesn't exist.

18

answer.
answer.

It's impossible to
It's
to

Let's stop playing games and
Let's stop
games and

19
20

move this along. You cannot answer a
move this along. You cannot answer a

21

question about something that does not
question
something that does not

22

exist.
exist.

23

Q.
Q.

MR. CALLAN: Can you answer the
MR. CALLAN:
Can you answer the

24
25

Please answer the question?
Please answer the question?

question, Doctor?
question, Doctor?

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A)

Page 287
287
1
2
2
3
3

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
A.
A.

I already made my decision.
made
I
decision.

I

cannot answer the question.
cannot answer the question.

4

Q.
Q.

Once your made your decision?
Once your made
decision?

5

A.
A.

The patient needed admission.
The
admission.

6
6

I felt that at that point on 11/1 that
I felt that at that point on 11/1 that

7
7

the patient needed inpatient
the patient needed inpatient

8

stabilization.
stabilization.

9

Q.
Q.

So just so we are clear here:
So just so we are clear here:

10
10

No information from IAB would have
No information
IAB
have

11

changed your mind, correct, from internal
changed your mind, correct,
internal

12
12

affairs?
affairs?

13
13

MR. KRETZ: Objection.
MR. KRETZ:
Objection.

14
14

)

MR. CALLAN: Same objection.
MR. CALLAN: Same objection.

15
15
16
16
17
17

A.
A.

Then I would have to make the
Then I
have to
the

chairman make the decision.
chairman make the decision.
Q.
Q.

So if IAB
information,
So if IAB had information, you

18
18

would want the
would want the chairman to make the
to
the

19
19

decision?
decision?

20
20

21

MR. CALLAN: Objection. This is
Objection.
This is
MR. CALLAN:

ridiculous.
ridiculous.

22
22

MR. SMITH: Would you stop.
MR. SMITH:
Would you stop.

23
23

24
24
)

Would you please stop. I'm sick and
Would you please stop.
I'm sick and
tired of you interrupting this
tired of you interrupting this

25
25

examination. You've been doing this
examination.
You've been doing this

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I

Page 288
Page 288

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
2

all day.
all day.
MR. CALLAN: Are you involved in
MR. CALLAN:
Are you involved in

3
3
4

this?
this?
MR. SMITH: Yes, heavily and
MR. SMITH:
Yes, heavily and

5
6
6

you're going to become more involved
you're going to become more involved

7
7

in this with this kind of
in this with this

8

irresponsible behavior.
irresponsible behavior
MR. CALLAN: There is one
MR. CALLAN: There is one

9
9

10
10

attorney designated to represent the
the
attorney designated to

11

Plaintiff.
Plaintiff.

12
12

are just running the home movie
are just
the

13
13

camera.
camera.
MR. SMITH: Would you please
MR. SMITH:
Would you please

14
14
15
15

It's not you today.
It's not you today. You
You

stop interfering?
stop interfering?
MR. SUCKLE:
MR. SUCKLE: Excuse me.
Excuse me. No
No

16
16
17
17

matter how
matter how much you pontificate, we
pontificate, we

18
18

are not going home until we are done
are not going home until we are done.
I'm going to keep asking until I
to keep asking
I

19
19
20
20

get an answer. I'm going to keep
get an answer. I'm going to keep

21

asking.
asking.
MR. CALLAN: Try to ask a
MR. CALLAN: Try to ask a

22
22
23
23

relevant question.
relevant question.
MR. SUCKLE: II haven't been able
MR. SUCKLE:
haven't been able

24
24

25
25

to all day, that's why we're here.
to all day, that's
here.

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K»)

Page 289
Page 289
1
2
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
I'm trying.
I'm trying.

3
3

MR. CALLAN: Work harder at it.
MR. CALLAN:
Work harder at it.

4

MR. SUCKLE: Maybe you'll teach
MR. SUCKLE:
Maybe you'll teach

5

me one day.
me one day.

6
6

A.
A.

7
7

What do the think internal
What do the think internal

affairs would tell me?
affairs would tell me?

8

MR. CALLAN: Doctor, you have to
MR. CALLAN:
Doctor, you have to
wait for the question.
wait for the question.

9
9
10
10

Q.
Q.

There was nothing internal
There was
internal

11

affairs could have told you to change
affairs could have
you to change

[[

12
12

your mind, you already made your decision
your mind, you
decision

I.”

13
13

and whatever internal affairs had to say,
and whatever internal affairs had to say,

14
14

you were not going to change your mind,
you were not going to change your mind,

15
15

correct?
correct?

16
16

A.
A.

Is internal affairs reliable?
Is internal affairs reliable?

17
17

Q.
Q.

That's a good questions.
That's a good questions. Can
Can

18
18

you answer my question?
you answer my question?

19
19

20
20

A.
A.

reliable internal affairs is.
reliable internal affairs is.

21
22
22

Q.
Q.

D

25
25

How do you determine whether or
do
determine whether or

not internal affairs is reliable?
not internal affairs is reliable?

23
23
24
24

So I have to determine how
So I have to determine how

A.
A.

Because I have to assess them
I
to assess them

Q.
Q

In
them,
In assessing them, how would

too.
too.

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Page 290
290

/W)
\

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
2
3
3
4
5

you do that?
do that?
A.
A.

Collaborate what I have seen
I have seen

and what they tell me.
what they tell me.
Q.
Q.

So you would need to hear what
So you
to hear what

6
6

internal affairs has to say and evaluate
internal affairs has to say

7
7

whether or not you
whether or not you can believe them or
them or

8

not, correct?
not, correct?

9

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

10
10

Q.
Q.

Did you evaluate the police
you evaluate the

11

officer who reported that Mr. Schoolcraft
officer who reported that Mr. Schoolcraft

[N

12
12

had barricaded himself in his house, did
had barricaded himself in his house,

.§

13
13

you evaluate that person?
you evaluate
person?
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.
MR. SHAFFER: Objection.

14
14

15
15
16
16
17
17

I didn't see
I
see

A.
A.

He wasn't there.
He
there.

Q.
Q.

So but you accepted his
So but you
his

him.
him.

18
18

information as part of the basis of your
information as
of the basis of your

19
19

diagnosis, correct?
diagnosis, correct?

20
20

A.
A.

And the documentation.
the documentation.

21

Q.
Q.

Documentation somebody else
somebody else

22
22
23
23

wrote in a chart, correct?
wrote in a chart, correct?
A.
A.

That I saw Mr. Schoolcraft and
That I saw Mr. Schoolcraft and

24
24
9

I agreed to whatever the documentation of
I agreed to
the
of

25
25

the resident was.
the
was.

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 91 of 100

Page 293.
291
L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2

Q.
Q.

When you saw Mr. Schoolcraft,
you saw Mr. Schoolcraft,

3

you agreed he had barricaded himself in
you agreed he
himself in

4

his house?
his house?

5

A.
A.

That is the information given.
is the information given.

6

Q
Q.

Written in the chart?
in the chart?

7

A.
A.

Information given in the chart
given in the chart.

8

Q
Q.

By some police officer or
some
officer or

9
10
11
12

sergeant from the police department,
sergeant from the police department,
correct?
correct?
A.
A.

Hold on. Also have the
Hold on. Also have the

documentation from the EMS.
documentation from the EMS.

13

Q.
Q.

Did you speak to EMS?
speak to EMS?

14

A.
A.

Documentation is here.
is here.

15

Q.
Q.

Documentation meaning a note?
a note?

16

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

17

Q.
Q.

So EMS writes a note and you
So EMS writes a
and you

18

accept what they say because it's written
accept what they say
it's written

19

in the chart, correct?
in the chart, correct?

20
21
22

A.
A.

They were there. They went to
They were there. They went to

pick up the patient.
pick up the patient.
Q.
Q.

But you are not sure if you
are not sure if

23

would trust internal affairs; am I
would trust internal affairs; am I

24

correct?
correct?

25

A.
A.

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That's a big question.
That's a
question.
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//4)

Page 292
Page 292

\

1
2
2

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.
Q.
Q.

Do you have the duty as a
Do you
the duty as a

3
3

physician in accordance with
and
physician in accordance with good and

4

accepted medical practice to conduct your
accepted medical practice to

5

own evaluation of a patient?
own evaluation of a patient?

6
6

A.
A.

I do.
I do.

7
7

Q.
Q.

Do you as a physician have in
Do you as a
have in

8

accordance with good and accepted medical
accordance with good and accepted medical

9
9

practice have to do a complete evaluation
practice have to do a complete

10
10
11
11

of your patients?
of your patients?
A.
A.

I agree with the evaluation of
I agree with the evaluation

[

12
12

the resident.
the resident. I saw the patient.
I saw the patient. I
I

I Q

13
13

agree whatever evaluation of resident was
agree whatever evaluation of
was

14
14

and that's it. I have written in my
and that's it. I have written in my

15
15

notes -notes --

16
16

Q.

I understand.
I understand.

17
17

My question is not quite that.
My question is not quite that.

18
18

Do you have a duty, does good
Do you have a duty, does

19
19

and accepted medical practice require you
accepted medical practice require you

20
20

to do a complete evaluation of your
to do a complete
of your

21

patients; that's the question?
patients; that's the question?

22
22

A.
A.

23
23

)

resident.
resident.

24
24

Q.
Q.

I'm in agreement with the
I'm in
the

25
25

Yes or no, do you have a duty
Yes or no, do
a duty

within the bounds of good and accepted
within the bounds of
and accepted

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Page 293'
Page 293

/-A‘!

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

medical practice to
medical practice to do a complete
a complete

3

evaluation of your patient?
evaluation of your patient?

4
5

E

I
1

MR. CALLAN: Objection to form.
MR. CALLAN:
Objection to form.
MR. LEE: Objection.
MR. LEE: Objection.

I

6

Q.
Q.

Does good and accepted medical
Does good and
medical

7

practice require you to do
complete
practice require you to do a complete

8

evaluation of your patient?
evaluation of
patient?

9
10

A.
A.

I did evaluation.
I
evaluation.

I'm in
in

agreement with the resident.
agreement with the resident.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.
MR. CALLAN: Objection.

11
12

Q.
Q.

You can't answer that question?
You can't answer that question?

13

A.
A.

I consider that in agreement
I consider that in agreement

14
15

with my resident.
with my resident.
I'm not talking about conduct
not talking about conduct

Q.
Q.

16

here
here.

I'm talking about a standard of
I'm
about a standard of

17

practice.
The standard of practice is
practice. The standard of practice is

18

what we are
what we are talking about now.
about now.
The question is: Does good and
The question is: Does good and

19
20

accepted medical practice require you to
accepted medical practice require you to

21

do a complete evaluation; that's the
do a complete evaluation; that's the

22

question?
question?
MR. KRETZ: Objection.
MR. KRETZ: Objection.

23
24
25

A.
A.

I mention to you I did an
I mention to you I did an

evaluation and I agree with whatever
evaluation
I agree with

‘,/

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 94 of 100

Page 294
294

ii)

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
2
3
3

4

evaluation of the resident.
evaluation of the resident.
Q.

did in Mr. Schoolcraft's situation.
in Mr. Schoolcraft's situation.
I'm asking as a standard as a
I'm asking as a standard as a

5
6
6

I understand what you think you
I
think

physician what the standards are.
physician what the standards are.

7
7

My question is: Does good and
My question is: Does good and

8

accepted medical practice require you to
accepted medical practice
you to

9
9

do a complete evaluation of all of your
do a complete evaluation of all of

10
10
11

patients?
patients?
A.
A.

Okay. If you are saying in
Okay.
If you are saying in

12
12
,

13
13

of the residents, we usually say I agree
of the residents, we usually say I agree

14
14

I

general if we agree with the evaluation
general if we agree with the evaluation

with the above evaluation of the patient.
with the above evaluation of the patient.
Yes, we evaluate the patient.
Yes, we evaluate the patient.

15
15
16
16

If we agree with the assessment whatever
If we agree with the

17
17

the residents say, that's what we
the residents say, that's

18
18

document.
document.

19
19
20
20

Q.
Q.

Do you not understand my
Do
not understand

question?
question?

21

A.
A.

I understand your question.
I
your question.

22
22

Q.

But you are just refusing to
But
are just
to

23
23

answer?
answer?
MR. CALLAN: Next question.
MR. CALLAN: Next question.

24
24
\

I

25
25

Move on.
on.

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 95 of 100

Page 295
Page 295

/1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2

Q.
Q.

Doctor, does good and accepted
Doctor, does good
accepted

3

medical practice
medical practice require you to do an
you to do an

4

independent evaluation of your patient?
independent
of your patient?
MR. CALLAN: We have been down
MR. CALLAN: We have been down

5
6

that road, Counsel. She did an
that road, Counsel. She did an

7

independent. She read independent.
She read --

»

MR. SUCKLE: I'm asking about
MR. SUCKLE:
I'm asking about

8
9

standard in the field.
standard in the field. Maybe I
Maybe I

10

learned it, somewhere I must have
learned it,
I

11

stumbled in somewhere about the
stumbled in
about the

12

standard so I'm going to ask.
standard so I'm going to ask. I might
I might

13

be right.
be right.

14

Q.
Q.

Doctor, does good and accepted
Doctor, does
accepted

15

medical practice require you to do an
medical practice require you to do an

16

independent evaluation of all of your
independent
of all of your

17

patients?
patients?

18

A.
A.

I already answered you.
I already answered you. I said
I said

19

I assessed the patient. And if the
I assessed the patient. And if the

20

resident assessed also the patient, I
resident
also the patient, I

21

will say that I agree with the
will say that I agree with the assessment

22

of the patient.
of the patient.

23
24

I

25

Q.
Q.

Do you know what good and
Do you
and

accepted medical
means?
accepted medical practice means?
A.
A.

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I said I
assess the
I said I did assess the
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Page 296
L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
3

patient.
patient.
Q.
Q.

Do you know what medical
Do you
medical

4

standards are, standards of practice, do
standards are, standards of practice, do

5

you understand that?
you
that?

6

A.
A.

But you ---

7

Q.
Q.

I'm talking about general
I'm talking about general

8

standards of practice.
standards of practice. Do you
Do you

9

understand?
understand?

10

A.
A.

Yes, I'm saying -Yes, I'm saying

11

Q.
Q.

I'm not talking about what you
talking

12
13
14
15

did with Mr. Schoolcraft.
did with Mr. Schoolcraft.
A.
A.

I'm not referring only to Mr.
not referring only to Mr.

Schoolcraft.
Schoolcraft.
Q.
Q.

The question is: Do you have,
The question is: Do you have,

16

a simple yes or no, does good and
a simple yes or no, does
and

17

accepted medical practice require you to
accepted medical practice require
to

18

do your own independent evaluation of an
do your own
of an

19

a patient?
a patient?
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the

20
21

form.
form.

22

Q.

If it's no you can tell me no.
If it's no you can tell me no.
MR. CALLAN: What do you mean,
MR. CALLAN: What do you mean,

23
24

your own independent evaluation as
your own independent
as

25

opposed to speaking to a resident, as
to speaking to
resident, as

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/a)

Page 297
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\.

1

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2
2

opposed to calling people?
opposed to
people?

3
3

MR. SUCKLE: Yes.
SUCKLE: Yes.
MR.

4

MR. CALLAN: Then ask it that
MR. CALLAN:
Then ask it that

5

way.
way.

6
6

MR. SUCKLE: It's pretty clear.
MR. SUCKLE:
It's pretty clear.

7
7

MR. CALLAN: They way you're
MR. CALLAN:
They way you're

8

asking it is totally unclear.
asking it is totally unclear.

9
9

MR. SUCKLE: It's one of those
MR. SUCKLE:
It's one of those

10
10

things I have to learn from you again
things I have to learn
again.

11

Thanks for teaching me.
Thanks for
me.

W

12
12

Q.
Q.

i_§

13
13

question, Doctor? We are going to be
question, Doctor? We are going to be

14
14

here all night if you don't answer these
here all night if
don't answer these

15
15

few questions.
questions.

Can you please answer my
Can you
answer

16
16

MR. CALLAN: II can assure we are
MR. CALLAN:
can assure we are

17
17

not going to be here all night.
not going to be here all night. We're
We're

18
18

getting very close to you being
getting very
to

19
19

abusive.
abusive.

20
20

Q.

I'm entitled to be here.
I'm entitled to be here. We
We

21

will bring you back to answer this last
will bring you back to answer this last

22
22

few series of questions which go to
series
questions which go to

23
23

standard of care.
standard of care.

24
24
)

MR. CALLAN: Sure you will.
MR. CALLAN: Sure you will.

25
25

MR. SUCKLE: I absolutely will
MR. SUCKLE:
I absolutely will

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Page 298
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L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

2

bring her back if she can't answer
bring her back if she can't answer

3

standard of care questions.
standard of care questions. I will.
I will.

4

You might want to ask
to answer
You might want to ask her to answer

5

the questions. I will bring her back
the questions. I will bring her back

6

if she doesn't answer standard of care
if she doesn't answer standard of care

7

questions.
questions.

8

MR. RADOMISLI: Off the record.
MR. RADOMISLI: Off the record.

9

MR. SMITH: Off the record at
MR. SMITH:
Off the record at

10

6:05 p.m.
6:05 p.m.
[Discussion held off the
[Discussion held off the

11
12

record.]
record.]
[Whereupon, at 6:05 p.m., a
[Whereupon, at 6:05 p.m.,

13
14

recess was taken.]
recess was taken.]
[Whereupon, at 6:06 p.m., the
[Whereupon, at 6:06 p.m., the

15
16

testimony continued.]
testimony continued.]
[Discussion
off the
[Discussion held off the

17
18

record.]
record.]
MR. SMITH:
Back on the record
MR. SMITH: Back on the record

19
20

at 6:06.
at 6:06.

21

Q.
Q.

Doctor, I'm not talking about
Doctor, I'm not talking about

22

what you documented or didn't document.
or
document.
what you

23

I'm just talking about standard of care
I'm just talking about standard of care

24

as a physician.
as a physician.
The question is: Does good and
The question is: Does good and

25

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 99 of 100

Page 299
299

_

L. ALDANA-BERNIER
L.

1
2
2

accepted medical practice require you to
accepted medical practice require you to

3
3

do your own independent evaluation
do your own

4

regardless of how you document that
regardless of how you document that

5

evaluation?
evaluation?

6
6

MR. CALLAN: Objection to the
MR. CALLAN: Objection to the

7
7

form of the question.
form of the question.

8

You can answer.
You can answer.

9
9

A.
A.

When a resident sees the
When a resident sees the

10
10

patient, after the resident sees the
patient, after the
sees the

11

patient, I do go see the patient.
patient, I do go see the patient. If I
If I

12
12

can agree with the documentation, then I
can agree with the documentation, then I

13
13

write I agree with the documentation.
write I agree with the documentation.

14
14

Q.
Q.

I understand your procedure.
I
your procedure.

15
15' Thank for telling me your procedure.
Thank for telling me your procedure.
Does good and accepted medical
Does
medical

16
16
17
17

practice require you, forget what you do,
practice require you, forget what you do,

18
18

does it require you to do your own
does it require
to do your own

19
19

independent evaluation? That's a simple
independent evaluation? That's a simple,

20
20

straightforward question, not about what
straightforward question, not about what

21

other people do, about what you do.
other people do, about
do.

I

22
22
23
23

A.
A.

I have to see every patient,
I have to see every patient,

yes.
yes.

24
24

MR. SMITH: What was the answer.
MR. SMITH:
What was the answer.

25
25

[The requested portion of the
[The requested portion of the

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Case 1:10-cv-06005-RWS Document 380-3 Filed 02/11/15 Page 100 of 100

./'
>\

I

Page 300
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1

L.
'L. ALDANA-BERNIER

2

record was read.]
record was read.]

3

Q.
Q.

4
5

make your own independent
And make your own independent

evaluation, correct?
evaluation, correct?
A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

6

MR. SHAFFER:
Is that a yes?
MR. SHAFFER: Is that a yes?

7

MR. CALLAN:
MR. CALLAN:

8
9
10

Q.
Q.

It's a yes.
It's a yes.

Doctor, have you ever been
Doctor,
you ever been

involved in any
lawsuits besides
involved in any other lawsuits besides

this one?
this one?

11

Yes.
Yes.

12

Q.
Q.

The
was yes?
The answer was yes?

13

A.
A.

Yes.
Yes.

14

Q.
Q.

When you say yes, how many?
many?
When you say yes,

15

A.
A.

Two that I know of.
Two that I know of.

16

I

A.
A.

Q.
Q.

When you say that you know of,
When you say that you know of,

17

why do you answer that way?
that way?
why do you

18

A.
A.

That's
I know.
That's what I know.

19

Q.
Q.

Do
keep open there is a
Do you keep open there is a

20

possibility that there are lawsuits that
possibility that there are lawsuits that

21

you don't know about?
you don't
about?

22
23

me.
asking me.

24

I

A.
A.

Q.
Q.

25

That's what I know. You are
You are
That's what I know.

Do
know the names of those
Do you know the names of those

people that are suing you?
people that are suing you?

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