PA Advisors, LLC v. Google Inc. et al

Filing 426

Second MOTION in Limine Defendants' Motion in Limine No. 2 by Google Inc., Yahoo! Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit White Decl., #2 Exhibit 1, #3 Exhibit 2, #4 Exhibit 3, #5 Text of Proposed Order)(Perlson, David)

PA Advisors, LLC v. Google Inc. et al

Doc. 426 Att. 4

Exhibit 3

Dockets.Justia.com

Geller, Ilya [FINAL]
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Job No.: 212395 Deposition of ILYA GELLER, taken by and before JOYCE SILVER, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New York, and, PHILIP GLAUBERSON, Videographer, held at the office of STROOCK, STROOCK & LAVAN, 767 Third Avenue, New York, New York. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VS. GOOGLE INC., et al., Defendants. -------------DATE: TIME: UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS MARSHALL DIVISION ---------------------------: PA ADVISORS, LLC, Plaintiff, : : : : : : : : : : August 19, 2009 9:47 a.m. 15 14 13 NO.2:07-CV-480-DF 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

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WITNESS ILYA GELLER BY MR. CANNON BY MR. FENSTER

INDEX DIRECT CROSS 6 128

REDIRECT 154

RECROSS

EXHIBITS NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE Exhibit 16, Patent Purchase agreement, 101 Bates Nos. PA 0001210-22 Exhibit 17, Panel Summary No. 1 119 Exhibit 18, Letter, Bates Nos. Geller 137 031979-91 Exhibit 19, Letter, Bates No. Geller 139 033081 Exhibit 20, Letter, Bates Nos. Geller 140 033083 exhibit 21, Letter, Bates Nos. Geller 140 034109-10 Exhibit 22, Document entitled, "The New 141 Search Technology," Bates Nos. Geller 054521-28 Exhibit 23, E-mail dated 8/27/01, Bates 143 No. Brin 00000001 Exhibit 24, Letter dated 6/14/05 147 Exhibit 25, Documents Bates Nos. PA 152 0001419-1530

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HOWREY LLP 321 North Clark Street Chicago, Illinois 60654 BY: JASON C. WHITE, ESQ. ALSO PRESENT: Erich Spangenberg 1 A P P E A R A N C E S: Attorneys for Plaintiff RUSS AUGUST & KABAT 12424 Wilshire Boulevard Los Angeles, California 90025 BY: MARC A. FENSTER, ESQ. Attorneys for Defendant, Google Inc. QUINN, EMANUEL, URQUHART, OLIVER & HEDGES, LLP 555 Twin Dolphin Drive Suite 560 Redwood Shores, California 94065 BY: BRIAN C. CANNON, ESQ. And EUGENE NOVIKOV, ESQ. Attorneys for Defendant Yahoo 2 STIPULATIONS 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that the within examination may be signed and sworn to before any officer authorized to administer an oath or notary public, with the same force and effect as though signed and sworn to before the officer before whom the within deposition was taken. IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that all objections except as to the form of the question, shall be reserved to the time of the trial. IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between the attorneys for the respective parties hereto that filing and sealing be one and the same are hereby waived.

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PA Advisors v. Google

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Geller, Ilya [FINAL]
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. that? MR. FENSTER: No. Object to form. Q. A. ILYA GELLER After August '98. I came to the idea, but it's -- you see Yes, I came. Yes, I had after, 1 2 3 4 5 Q. And do you recall when it was you had 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Are you -- I'm sorry, I didn't mean to Did you finish? It's a process. Are you familiar with the phrase "the 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. do you need? Q. Just the best memory that you have of answered. A. (Speaks Russian.) You need an exact hour, minute? Or what A. Q. ILYA GELLER The patent is only one patent. Let's -- let's assume that the patent Did there come a time when

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the patent, yes? right.

includes one invention.

you conceived in a concrete fashion what that invention was? MR. FENSTER: Object to form. Asked and

No, it's impossible to say exactly It takes a long --

because it doesn't work this way. a long time.

You begin to think and some parts of

your idea are foolish, some parts of your idea are valid and finally you -- it's like a block of stone. You see if you want to make a sculpture, you take everything extra from the stone and finally you got the sculpture. It's the same with for -- so it took

when the process that you had described was complete. And you had in your mind a definite and firm idea of what this invention would be. MR. FENSTER: Object to form. I

a long -- took a long time before I came to the idea. So it wasn't just once like lightening. long process. Q. cut you off. A. Q. It was a

I'm sorry, but it's misunderstanding.

just don't understand what you're asking. it's created? THE INTERPRETER:

I don't --

(Speaks Russian.)

I don't know in which context you are It

speaking at because it depends on your context. depends -- listen, I am a philosopher. science.

I am -- I do

conception of an invention"? MR. FENSTER: Object to form.

And I understand your question in many

different aspects, but I need to know more about your

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. ILYA GELLER Foundation. A. (Speaks Russian.) I told you I got this conception -- I told you it's a process. Right? Q. It's really actually -- I just want to It's a process. Right? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Is 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 I don't -- I can't I don't see 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ILYA GELLER context, about the context in which you are asking. Q. saw -A. Q. A. too big. laconic. Q. I'm trying to establish, and if -- if Concept of the patent is no value. I'm sorry? It's too vague. It's too vague. It's Well, if I understand you correctly, you

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lay the foundation to see whether you're familiar with the term "the conception of an invention." that a term that has meaning to you? MR. FENSTER: MR. CANNON: Meaning in its legal sense? Well, let's just let the

I need you to point, to take, to be

you -- if you don't remember, that -- that's -- that is what it is -- if -- if there came a point where you had a definite and firm idea of the invention that would later become issued as this patent? MR. FENSTER: asked and answered. MR. CANNON: Marc, if you could limit Objection, vague, form,

witness answer the question. MR. FENSTER: Object to form.

(Speaks Russian.) It's too vague.

understand what you're talking about. the context.

You need to give me the context of your

your objections to objection, form, I would appreciate that because that's what the Texas rules require. MR. FENSTER: I know what the Texas rules

idea -- of your words. Q. Well, the context is the -- the -- your

patent, the 067 patent -A. Q. A. Q. Yes. -- claims various inventions. Various inventions. It's one invention? It's one invention.

require, Mr. Cannon, and you need to -- this is a special deposition and you need to ask simple questions. see fit. And I'm going to protect the record as I

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Geller, Ilya [FINAL]
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. question.) A. before you. Okay. You have this patent. It is ILYA GELLER MR. CANNON: Well, I'm doing the best 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 MR. FENSTER: Object to form. Of course 19 20 21 22 23 24 The -- the title of the patent uses the 25 A. Right? A. patent. A. Q. profiles? MR. FENSTER: Object to form. ILYA GELLER MR. FENSTER: Object to form.

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I -- the best I can, but I really think the record, you should limit yourself to what the rules require. MR. FENSTER: question, please? (The reporter read back the last Could you read back the

I believe yes. How does your invention relate to user

It's written in here, just read the Everything is written here -- in here. But

why should I say by myself if you can read the patent? Q. Well, I -- I'd like you to answer, if you

So finally of course I had this idea. Right? Before you. So

You have something here.

finally I came to the idea, but I don't remember when. year. I cannot say you exactly day, months or a It was somewhere in '99 or '98. I don't

can, if you can tell me how your invention relates to user profiles? MR. FENSTER: Form.

remember exactly. Q. Are there any documents that you can

I told you about opinions and knowledge. And I told you what this patent is -- is I

think of that would help you pin down the date more exactly?

about searching for both opinions and knowledge. didn't tell that, but now I am telling. combines both approaches. and for opinions.

This patent

It searches for knowledge

It's a pro- -- it's a process.

So I -- and to search for

it starts somewhere, but document, I don't remember. I -- I have -- I have no idea what kind of document it could be. you mean? Q. I have no idea. I don't know. What do

opinions, a program, a computer needs to know who is searching for information. searching for information. personalized. Who is -- who is So it must be

You see here generated personal -So you gave just a part

personalized user profiles.

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. ILYA GELLER phrase "user profiles." A. Q. Where? If you look at the patent Exhibit 6, the Do you see that? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Yes, I see it, but it was -- this patent 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 You -- I asked you 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. ILYA GELLER of a sentence, but the whole definition is personalized user profiles. Q. Do you believe you are the first person

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title is in the top left, "System and Method For Generating Personalized User Profiles," and then it goes on? A.

to come up with the idea of using personalized user profiles to search the Internet? MR. FENSTER: Object to form.

My experience at NIST TRC tells me, yes.

was written by my legal counsel and he -- it's his work. Right? This patent, I didn't -- I didn't He wrote everything.

National Institute of Standards and Technology Text Retrieval Conference. Q. What was the last -- could you tell me

write anything to this patent. Q. A.

So you didn't write this patent? Technically, he wrote the patent, my

again the -- the name of the conference you just referenced? A. National Institute of Standards and

legal counsel. Q. Are there mistakes in the patent? MR. FENSTER: Mistakes? Object to form.

Technology Text Retrieval Conference. Q. conference? A. Huge companies and universities like MIT And what is the significance of that

Grammatical?

Any kind of mistakes.

about the phrase "user profile" and you answered that -- that your attorney had written it. And I'm

and companies like Microsoft, IBM, from the whole world -- world, I mean Academy of China and everybody comes to this conference, and this the major event in the search world. Q. And how does that conference relate to

wondering why -- why did you answer in that fashion. A. Because -- what fashion? Because here he

wrote it user profile. Q. profiles? Does your invention have to do with user

your belief about personalized user profiles? MR. FENSTER: Object to form.

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