Bedrock Computer Technologies, LLC v. Softlayer Technologies, Inc. et al
REPLY to Response to Motion re #283 MOTION for Summary Judgment of Indefiniteness filed by AOL Inc, Amazon.com Inc., Google Inc., Match.Com LLC, MySpace Inc., Softlayer Technologies, Inc., Yahoo! Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Declaration of Antonio Sistos, #2 Exhibit A)(Sistos, Antonio)
Bedrock Computer Technologies, LLC v. Softlayer Technologies, Inc. et al
Doc. 311 Att. 2
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS TYLER DIVISION ************************************************** BEDROCK COMPUTER TECHNOLOGIES, LLC, Plaintiff, -vsCase No. 6:09-cv-0029
SOFTLAYER TECHNOLOGIES, INC., CITIWARE TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS, LLC, GOOGLE, INC., YAHOO! INC., MYSPACE, INC., AMAZON.COM INC., MATCH.COM, LLC and AOL LLC Defendants. ************************************************** RED HAT, INC, Plaintiff,
Case No. 6:09-cv-00549
BEDROCK COMPUTER TECHNOLOGIES, LLC Defendants. ************************************************** VIDEO DEPOSITION OF MARK T. JONES, Ph.D. 11:15 a.m. to 5:55 p.m. September 29, 2010 Blacksburg, Virginia Job No. 14183 REPORTED BY: Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR
2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY: McKOOL SMITH, P.C. 300 Crescent Court, Suite 1500 Dallas, Texas (214) 978-4207 email@example.com J. AUSTIN CURRY, ESQUIRE Counsel for Plaintiff BEDROCK COMPUTER TECHNOLOGIES, LLC 75201 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: Deposition of MARK T. JONES, Ph.D., taken and transcribed on behalf of the Defendants, by and before Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR, Notary Public in and for the Commonwealth of Virginia at large, pursuant to Rule 30 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, and by Notice to Take Depositions; commencing at 11:15 a.m., September 29, 2010, at Blacksburg, Virginia.
3 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL CONT'D: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY: KILPATRICK STOCKTON, LLP 1100 Peachtree Street, NE, Suite 2800 Atlanta, Georgia (404) 745-2552 firstname.lastname@example.org RUSSELL A. KORN, ESQUIRE Counsel for Defendants SOFTLAYER TECHNOLOGIES, INC. and AMAZON.COM, INC. 30309-4530 BY: McDERMOTT, WILL & EMERY 18191 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 500 Irvine, California (949) 757-7178 email@example.com CHRISTOPHER D. BRIGHT, ESQUIRE Counsel for Defendant YAHOO! INC. 92612-7108
4 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL CONT'D: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ALSO PRESENT: 25 BEN HERNANDEZ, VIDEOGRAPHER BY: QUINN, EMANUAL, URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP 555 Twin Dolphin Drive, 5th Floor Redwood Shores, California (650) 801-5000 firstname.lastname@example.org CLAUDE M. STERN, ESQUIRE Counsel for Defendants GOOGLE, INC. and MATCH.COM, LLC. 94065 BY: ALSTON & BIRD, LLP The Atlantic Building 950 F Street, NW Washington, D.C. (202) 239-3825 email@example.com DEEPA NAMA, ESQUIRE Appearing Via Telephone as Counsel for Defendants MYSPACE, INC. and AOL LLC 20004-1404
5 1 2 WITNESS: 3 MARK T. JONES, Ph.D. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 EXHIBITS 11 12 Defendants' Exhibit 17.................... 13 Curriculum Vitae of Mart T. Jones, Ph.D. with cover sheet titled "Exhibit B" 14 Defendants' Exhibit 18.................... 15 Declaration of Mark T. Jones, Ph.D. 16 17 18 ***** 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 13 Examination by Mr. Stern............ 9 INDEX
Examination by Mr. Bright........... 159 Examination by Mr. Korn............. 210
91 1 BY MR. STERN:: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. And so just so we're clear,
there's nothing extraneous and nothing needed in that area search table procedure from the word search table procedure to alternate version of search table procedure that would -- to render this a hash algorithm, right? A. I think we might be talking past one I would say it is
another on the extraneous part.
a hash algorithm if it has the features I mentioned earlier. This is a hash algorithm, and
part of that hash algorithm is the on the fly removal of expired records. I would still call
this a hash -- I mean, that's part of this hash algorithm, so I think we might be talking past one another on that part. Q. Professor, since you've testified under
oath several times now that every hash algorithm uses a particular hash function, would you please tell me which hash function is used by the hash algorithm described in the area you just identified? A. function. Q. I understand. I'm asking you can you I didn't say particular. I said a hash
92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 tell me which hash function is used by the hash algorithm you just identified. A. Q. A. Q. Is it modulo?
It's any hash function. Is it cryptographic? It's any hash function. So the number of functions that could
be used by this hash algorithm is infinite? A. number. I should know, but I don't know the I would assume the number of prime
numbers is infinite, so within the family of modulo, if the number of prime numbers is infinite, then I would say that the number of possible hash functions is infinite. Q. So in your view, the number of hash
algorithms that can be used in this patent in the means-plus-function claims is infinite? A. Q. No. Well, you said the hash algorithm would
use any one of an infinite number of hash functions, right? A. Q. Right. Okay. Just so we're clear, it's your
view that the hash algorithm that's identified would use any one or more of an infinite number of hash functions?
93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. Yes. Okay. And it's your testimony that the
area we just went through, the area, that part of that includes the search for the -- I'm sorry, the on the fly deletion or removal of records, right? A. Q. Yes. Can you tell me the section of the
pseudocode that does that? A. That's where -- there's a line that
begins, if P up arrow, and if the record contents, if that's expired, then it calls a procedure that will remove that from the link list. Q. A. Q. Where does that end? I'm sorry. Okay. It's those two lines.
And the phrase that starts else
begins, what does that do? A. There we are -- that's part of -- the
else begin is if it's not expired, then check to see if the contents match the -- the key that's being searched for. Q. Now, in table 3, what you previously
identified in table 3, the box that says hash search key -A. Q. Yes. Do you see that? The function that
94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 takes place in that box all precedes the search for and the deletion of the expired records, right? key? A. Q. Yes. The hash the search key according to Do you see where it says hash the search
figure 3 all takes place before the search for the identification and the removal of the expired records, right? A. It's part of that process. It's taking
it to the correct link list. search without that. Q.
You couldn't do the
Well, I understand that, but this is --
you testified this is a search procedure identified in Exhibit 3, right? A. Q. Yes. Let me see if I get this straight,
Professor, is it your sworn testimony that it's your view that the hash function operates not just within box 31 on figure 3 but operates all the way to stop on box 37? A. Q. No. Okay. The hash function operates
within box 31, right? A. That's correct.
95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Just so it's clear, the hash function
operates within box 31, right? A. Q. Yes. Now, in the area that you just
identified, the search table procedure, where does the hash function operate? What lines reflect the
operation of the search of the hash function operating on the search table procedure? A. It's the line after the word begin that
is indexed colon equals hash. Q. A. is called. Q. A. Q. And where does that end? It's the semicolon on that line. Okay. So just so we're clear, the hash Yes? That's the line where the hash function
function -- I want to make sure that we're absolutely clear about this. In the area called
search table procedure, the hash function is denoted by the language that reads begin, skip a line, index, full colon, equal, hash, paren, record underscore key, closed paren, semicolon? A. It's after the begin. It doesn't
include begin. Q. Okay.
But otherwise, that's correct. That's fine. So then the hash
96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 function is denoted in the pseudocode by the phrase index, full colon, equal sign, hash, paren, record, underscore key, semicolon, right? A. Q. Yeah. Okay. That is what denotes the hash
function, right? A. Q. Yes. You'll agree with me that that line
doesn't say anything about modulo arithmetic? A. Q. That's correct. It doesn't say anything about
cryptographic? A. Q. That's correct. That line doesn't describe what
particular hash function is being used, right? A. Q. That's correct. And then what other lines in this
particular -- in this area between search table procedure and until the alternative version of search table procedure, what other lines would represent what's taking place in the area corresponding to Figure 3 from the box 32 onward? A. Do you want me to go box by box, or
just give you a range? Q. Is it accurate to say that -- well, why
107 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 depo. MR. STERN: THE WITNESS: I'll ask the witness. I think if we did 45 Q. It refers to the fact that someone
would have to use a hash function but doesn't identify the code associated with that hash function, right? A. Q. That's correct. And you've testified that the hash
function that could be used for this particular algorithm could be one of any number of hash functions, correct? A. Q. That's correct. In fact, according to you, it could be
any number of -- well, it could be almost an infinite set of hash functions, right? A. Yes. MR. CURRY: stopping point? hungry is all. MR. STERN: Are we break for -- how Counsel, are you at a good I'm just getting a little
much time do you want to break for lunch? MR. CURRY: It's up to you. It's your
minutes, a half hour, however long it takes to eat downstairs.
158 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is (Break in proceedings.) the use of removing expired records dynamically based on the determination of a maximum number of records to be removed? A. This will remove all the records until
the search key is found in the list. Q. So is it accurate that neither the
search table procedure identified in Column 11 through 12 and the alternate version of search table procedure specifically address dynamically determining a maximum number of records to be removed in the access link list of records? A. That's correct. MR. STERN: catch a flight. colleagues here. MR. BRIGHT: Take a few minutes. The time is I'm done. I've got to
I'm going to yield to my
approximately 3:39 p.m., and we're off the record.
approximately 3:48 p.m., and we're back on the record.
159 1 2 3 BY MR. BRIGHT:: 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 BY MR. BRIGHT: 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Now, sir, do you agree that the Q. Bear with me, I will try to avoid any EXAMINATION
duplicative questioning, but I just wanted to note for the record there may be instances where I need to sort of establish a foundational question? MR. CURRY: I understand to a certain
point, but get into the same -- you know, style Q and A I'm going to be instructing.
means-plus-function elements in the claims in the '120 patent are implemented by a general purpose computer? A. I believe the structure includes a
general purpose computer, the structure that I identified. Q. Let me ask you this way: Do you agree
that the corresponding structures for the means-plus-function elements in the claims of the '120 patent are computer algorithms? A. Running on a general -- you know, part
of the structure identified is computer algorithm
160 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on a general purpose computer. Q. Okay. But at least a part of the
necessary structure for implementing the means-plus-function elements in the claims in the '120 patent is a computer algorithm? A. Q. Yes. And in forming your opinions about the
corresponding computer algorithms for the means-plus-function elements, did you reach an understanding of the recited functions in those claim elements? A. Q. Yes, I did. Now, I think you said in your
declaration that the specification must recite some structure corresponding to the claim to means. A. Do you recall that? Not those specific words, but I would
certainly agree that the specification needs to disclose a structure for the means-plus-function claim terms. Q. Now, if you could turn to your
declaration which has been marked as Defendants' Exhibit 18, and specifically to Page 3 at the top. A. Q. I'm there. Do you see where you've said I further
176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 BY MR. BRIGHT:: 25 Q. Well, let me try and get us on the same A. Q. I'm there. So do you agree that the word hashing
in this means-plus-function element is functional language? A. I'm not -- are you asking whether it's I guess I'm not quite sure
part of the function?
what you're saying by functional language. Q. I guess another way to ask it, the
hashing word in the hashing means element, does that hashing word convey any structure to you? A. It's identifying -- the hashing means
is what -- the name they're using for this means. Hashing itself -- the fact that they're using the word hashing there isn't conveying a particular structure. Q. So, again, the word hashing and the
hashing means is functional language, right? MR. CURRY: THE WITNESS: Objection to form. I guess I'm not quite --
I still don't -- the word functional language or phrase functional language, I'm not sure of the exact definition of that.
194 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 machine would execute, I'd have to read up -haven't seen it done and haven't done it myself, but I certainly know that it can be done. Q. And would there -- is it possible that
one of ordinary skill in the art would actually come up with another way of expressing the hashing algorithm mathematically that would also be correct? A. You mean hashing algorithm like, say, I
took the search table procedure and implementing the data structures and was able to express that mathematically might someone else do that differently? Q. A. certainly. Q. Besides different notation, would it be Yes. They could use different notation,
possible that one of ordinary skill in the art would come up with a different mathematical expression for the algorithm? A. I don't know, and I haven't thought
about it enough to -- I don't even know what my result would be. I know how to proceed, but I
don't know what my result would be, so I don't know if it would be the only one.
195 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 BY MR. BRIGHT:: 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. And when you say errors, Q. Just to close the loop on something you
testified about earlier, you mentioned that you were familiar with the -- I think the Knuth textbook, correct? A. Q. correct? A. Q. Yes. Did you see anything in that textbook Yes. And that's cited in the '120 patent,
with which you disagreed? MR. CURRY: THE WITNESS: Objection. Form.
I know there's certainly
errors in it because I know that it's its practice to pay people for corrections, but I didn't come across anything that jumped out at me.
typographical error as soon as are those the nature of the errors you're talking about? A. Oh, you might make an error in -- it
might be something more than typographical. Anytime you write -- this is one of a three-volume set that's a massive work, particularly in that
199 1 2 BY MR. BRIGHT:: 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 yes. Q. Now, if you would, turn to Claim 2 in Q. In your last answer when you say parts
of a hashing algorithm, which parts? A. I'll have to go specifically to my
report just to indicate which boxes, for example, in Figure 3, and then which lines in the search table procedure, in the alternative search table procedure as well as the lines and specification that indicate which parts I'm talking about. I
think the best ones to look at are Figures 3 in the search table procedure. Q. Okay. Is it fair to say that it's your
opinion that the corresponding structure for the record search means includes a hashing function? A. Includes the use of a hashing function,
the '120 patent. A. Q. I'm there. The means for dynamically determining
maximum number for the record search means to remove in the access link list of records is what I'm focused on now. A. Yes, I do. Do you see that?
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