WI-LAN Inc. v. Alcatel-Lucent USA Inc. et al

Filing 497

REPLY to Response to Motion re 481 MOTION for New Trial CONCERNING THE NON-INFRINGEMENT OF CERTAIN CLAIMS OF U.S. PATENT NOS. 6,088,326; 6,222,819; 6,195,327 AND 6,381,211 filed by WI-LAN Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit B, # 3 Exhibit C, # 4 Exhibit D)(Weaver, David)

EXHIBIT A

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
TYLER DIVISION

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WI-LAN, INC.

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DOCKET NO. 6:10cv521
-vs-

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Tyler, Texas
1:19 p.m.
July 8, 2013

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ALCATEL-LUCENT USA, INC.,
ET AL

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******************************************************

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WI-LAN, INC.

)

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DOCKET NO. 6:13cv252

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-vsHTC CORPORATION,
ET AL

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TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
AFTERNOON SESSION
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LEONARD DAVIS,
UNITED STATES CHIEF DISTRICT JUDGE, AND A JURY

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COURT REPORTERS:

MS. SHEA SLOAN
MS. JUDY WERLINGER
211 W. Ferguson
Tyler, Texas 75702
[e-mail]

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Proceedings taken by Machine Stenotype; transcript was
produced by a Computer.

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these channels?
A.

Because these are the same channels that we

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talked about before.

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didn't mean to -- we have the CPICH and we have the AICH

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channels that I talked about previously.

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Q.

There's, for example -- oops.

All right.

I

Now, does the overlay code need to

be separate from the orthogonal code?
A.

No, it doesn't.

an additional code.

The Court's construction was

The Court didn't give us a

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construction that it was a separate code.

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an example of what an orthogonal code and what an

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overlay code would look like.

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And this is

In fact, these are actual overlay --

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orthogonal codes 16 bits long, and then this is a

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256-bit overlay code.

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fact, the orthogonal code is part of the overlay code.

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Q.

You can see here that in actual

Can you give us, perhaps, a more concrete

example of how one code can be part of another code?
A.

Yes.

So one code can be part of another code.

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There's -- there's a -- one way of thinking about this

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is this phone number analogy that we talked about

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before.

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So if you think about the area code, area code

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903, that's Tyler and the districts around here.

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we -- we all understand what that means.

Now,

It's an area

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code.

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When you see 903, it stands alone in its own

right.

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But when they're generating the phone numbers,

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they take that area code and they subdivide it to create

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the telephone numbers in this area.

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telephone numbers such as this one here, Stanley's

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Famous Pit Bar-B-Q.

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understand that as a longer code that's been subdivided

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from that area code.

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And then you have

The phone number, 903-563-0331, we

And, of course, you can see here that one code
does, in fact, contain the other code.
Q.

Now, you were here when Mr. Arovas gave his

opening statement?

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A.

Yes, I was.

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Q.

And you heard him say that the Defendants

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don't have an overlay code, correct?

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A.

That's what I heard.

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Q.

All right.

Yes.

So what if for some reason or

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another the jury agrees that the overlay code needs to

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be separate from the orthogonal code?

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A.

Well, if the overlay code -- if you think the

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overlay code has to be separate from the orthogonal

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code, then there's still infringement under what's

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called deduction (sic) of equivalents.

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Q.

What do you understand the doctrine of

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equivalents to be, Dr. Wells?
A.

Well, I'm not a patent attorney, but my

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understanding is that if something is missing and it's

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still there through equivalence, there is still

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infringement.

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Q.

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All right.

Can you explain why this would be

something under the doctrine of equivalents?
A.

Yes.

Because using that 256-bit code, that

256-digit-long code that I just talked about is exactly

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the same as using a 16-bit code multiplied by another

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16-bit code.

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So you can see here -- I'll run through the

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math just to show that mathematically they are

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equivalent.

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Take the 16-bit code in the top left and then

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take a 16-bit overlay code.

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and you run through the math as to how it works, you

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multiply the orthogonal code by every bit within that

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overlay code.

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that was on the previous slide.

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Q.

And then if you go through

You end up with the same 256-bit code

All right.

So the results are the same, but

how do we get there?
A.

Okay.

So the results of these two are the

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same.

In fact, they're mathematically identical.

The

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16-bit code -- orthogonal code times the 16-bit overlay

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code gives you that 256-bit code.

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So what this means is generating, using that

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256-bit code is equivalent to generating a 16-bit

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orthogonal code and a 16-bit overlay code.

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the test is that they have to perform the same function,

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which they do, which is subdividing that orthogonal

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channel in the same way by further spreading the data in

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the orthogonal channel to achieve the same result, which

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is that subdivided orthogonal channel at 256.

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I understand

And I think one of ordinary skill in the art
would view these differences as insubstantial.
Q.

Now, we talked about the codes.

What about

the actual overlay code generator?
A.

Okay.

So there was the -- that was the --

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that was the generator.

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present to generate those overlay codes and support

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those channels that I talked about that I showed

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compliance for Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson.

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So the generator has to be

So, therefore, I can say that there's evidence

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or I found evidence that the overlay code generator is

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required by the HSDPA standard, and both Alcatel-Lucent

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and Ericsson both meet this element, this overlay code

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generator elements.

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Q.

All right.

What's the next element?

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A.

So the next element is for a second encoder.

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The second encoder has to be selected operable instead

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of the TDM encoder, to apply the overlay code, et

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cetera, et cetera.

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Q.

Doctor, let me stop you for just a second.

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want to go back to the overlay code generator for a

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moment.

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

I

I want to ask you, can you use the same

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hardware and software for the orthogonal code generator

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and the overlay code generator, or does it have to be

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separate?

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A.

You can use the same hardware or software for

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the overlay code generator and the orthogonal code

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generator, because the construction here is that they

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have to be -- something that generates overlay codes and

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something that generates orthogonal codes.

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It doesn't say that they have to be different

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hardware or software.

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hardware or software that, for example, for generating

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orthogonal codes, the 16-bit code, the generator could

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perhaps iterate through once to generate the 16 codes;

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but then the same piece of hardware or software could

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then go through a second time, a third time, a fourth

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time, a fifth time to generate that 256-bit code.

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So you could have the same

Now, in doing that, it's the same hardware or

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software but with something else.

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something else to instruct it to do that differently.

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So it may be the same hardware or software, but

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nevertheless, it still performs the function of an

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orthogonal code generator and an overlay code generator.

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Q.

Thank you, Doctor.

There has to be

And I'm sorry to take us

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back, but can we move on to the next element, the second

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encoder?

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A.

Okay.

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Q.

Can you summarize this for us, please?

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A.

Yes.

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bit as well.

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this highlighted claim element, the whereby.

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about whereby 'n' data items pertaining to different

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wireless links may be transmitted simultaneously within

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the same orthogonal channel.

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Second encoder.

So this one can be simplified a little

If you look at the -- the second half of
It talks

Now, going back to this code division multiple

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access slide, the orthogonal channels, that's the red

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line, the green line, and the blue line.

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saying that you have to send data items within those

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channels.

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we talked about before, upper Codes 14 and 15 at the top

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right-hand side of the screen.

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and we're sending something within that channel with the

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overlay code.

So this is

And that was, remember, the overlay code that

We've got that channel,

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screen, is this a figure in the HSDPA standard?
A.

Not exactly like this.

So this was a number

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of building blocks that were in the HSDPA standard.

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HSDPA standard gives us instructions how to put those

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together.

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instructions within the standard.

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The

I've put them together as per the

And I think one of ordinary skill in the art

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would have the ability to do -- to reproduce this

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picture.

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Q.

Okay.

Can you show us how this figure relates

to the second encoder in the claim?
A.

Yes.

So what I've done -- because by creating

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these two parts, the user data, the high-speed user data

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could, perhaps, go through this top path; and then the

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control data that's associated with it could go through

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this bottom path.

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So what that meant is through the user data at

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the top -- you recall I showed you the orthogonal code

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generator.

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at the bottom.

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orthogonal code generator and an overlay code generator.

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For the control data, there are longer codes
I showed previously that there was an

And so to apply that control data to the

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orthogonal code generator and the overlay code

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generator, there has to be a first encoder and a second

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encoder to apply that data.

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Q.

Now, do the -- does the second encoder have to

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use different hardware and software than the first

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encoder?

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A.

No.

Again, now this could be the same

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hardware or software, but, again, it's doing something

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differently each time, because it's applying -- with the

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overlay code, it's applying -- the encoder is applying

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an overlay code that's been generated.

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When it's a second encoder, it could be the

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same hardware or software; but it's doing something

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different, because it's applying, this time, the 256-bit

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code instead of a 16-bit code.

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Q.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

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A.

I was just going to say it may be the same

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hardware or software, but it's doing something

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different.

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limitations, the elements of the claim for a first

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encoder and for a second encoder.

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Q.

And, therefore, it's meeting the

And what do the claims tell us about whether

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we can use the same hardware and software as the first

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encoder and the second encoder?

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A.

Well, the claims allow that, as long as they

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perform the function of a first encoder and the function

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of a second encoder.

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Q.

All right.

And is this similar to the point

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you made earlier about equivalence?
A.

Yes.

Yes.

So I talked about the equivalence

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earlier, if you think that it was just the one

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generator.

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encoder, then there's the equivalent of using these two

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encoders together, because I showed before, the

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generating and encoding using a 256-bit code, that long

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code, is equivalent to generating and encoding using a

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16-bit orthogonal code and then a 16-bit overlay code.

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And they perform the same function,

So if you think there's just the one

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subdividing the orthogonal channel in the same way by

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further spreading the data in the orthogonal channel to

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achieve the same result, which is the subdivided

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orthogonal channel with this spreading factor of 256.

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And one of ordinary skill in the art would
view the difference as insubstantial.
Q.

All right.

Now, Dr. Wells, I believe the

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claim also said something about selectively operable,

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didn't it?

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A.

Yes, it did.

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Q.

Can you tell us how the HSDPA standard deals

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with that claim element?
A.

Yes.

It had in there, as well, that it was

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selectively operable.

And we can see that, for example,

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by going back to this radio timing picture that I put up

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before.

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You can see that some channels on here, for

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example the CPICH channel at the top here, you can see

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that that has the 10-millisecond timing on it.

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words, there's not TDM techniques applied to that.

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not divided up in time, or there are other channels like

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the high-speed data channels that we talked about

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previously, the HS-SCCH, the HS-PDSCH that have the time

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division multiplexing applied to them.

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Q.

In other
It's

And so where does that leave us with the

selectively operable under the HSDPA standard?
A.

So under the HSDPA standard, it means that

it's required by the HSDPA standard.
Q.

What about the Alcatel-Lucent base stations,

do they have a second encoder?
A.

Yes, they do.

So this is Alcatel-Lucent

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document -- Alcatel-Lucent Document PX 43, and this is

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the system specification for the HSDPA.

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And, again, this shows the code tree that I

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introduced previously -- oops.

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a number of channels, for example, here that have TDM

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techniques apply to them.

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channels that send the high-speed data down to your

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phone.

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This shows that there's

These are the high-speed data

And then it says that there's a number of