State of Washington, et al., v. Trump., et al
Filing
152
SECOND AMENDED COMPLAINT against defendants John Kelly, Donald J. Trump, U.S. Department of Homeland Security, United States of America, Rex Tillerson, filed by State of Oregon, State of New York, State of Washington, State of California, Commonwealth of Massachusetts, State of Maryland. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibits) (AD)
<![CDATA[
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 1
After Travel Ban, Interest in Trips to U.S. Declines - The New York Times
Page 1 of 4
https://nyti.ms/2lnWsrP
TRAVEL
|
UPDATE
After Travel Ban, Interest in Trips to U.S.
Declines
By SHIVANI VORA FEB. 20, 2017
The impact was immediate: Following President Trump’s Jan. 27 executive order
banning people from seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the
United States, the demand for travel to the United States took a nosedive, according
to data from several travel companies and research firms.
The airfare prediction app Hopper, for example, analyzed 303 million flight
searches between Jan. 26 and Feb. 1 and found that flight search demand from 122
international countries to the United States dropped 17 percent after the
implementation of the travel ban, compared with the first three weeks in January.
Demand bounced back slightly after the ban was temporarily lifted on Feb. 3 but
was still down by more than 10 percent as of Feb. 10, compared with the first three
weeks in January, said Hopper’s chief data scientist, Patrick Surry.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/travel/after-travel-ban-declining-interest-trips-to-united-stat... 3/12/2017
After Travel Ban, Interest in Trips to U.S. Declines - The New York Times
Page 2 of 4
The online travel site Cheapflights.com saw international searches for flights to
the United States drop following the ban; searches were down 38 percent from Jan.
27 to 29 compared with the previous weekend, and down 16 percent from Feb. 10 to
Feb. 14 compared with the average volume in January, said Emily Fisher, a
spokeswoman for the company.
“This drop was more than a seasonal swing,” she said. “It was most notable in
the days right after the ban was enacted.”
In addition, the Swedish travel search engine Flygresor.se analyzed 2.5 million
flight searches made on its website and app the weekend following the
announcement of the travel ban and found that searches to the United States
declined by 47 percent, compared with the same period the year before.
Flight bookings to the United States also declined following the ban, according
to ForwardKeys, a travel research company in Valencia, Spain. The company looked
at 16 million flight reservations a day between Jan. 28 and Feb. 4 and found that
international bookings to the United States were down 6.5 percent, compared with
the same period last year.
Some travel companies, too, saw a dip in requests and bookings for trips to the
United States.
Responsible Travel, a tour operator in Brighton, England, had a 22 percent
decrease in trip inquiries to the United States following the travel ban. In contrast,
the company’s overall business is up 30 percent this year, compared with the same
period last year, said its chief executive, Justin Francis.
“Prior to the ban, the U.S. was one of our best-selling destinations, but our
customers are now choosing to travel to other countries,” he said.
And from Jan. 27 to Feb. 16, the tour operator Intrepid Travel saw a 21 percent
decrease in sales for trips to the United States from travelers in Australia and a 30
percent decrease in sales from travelers in Britain. This is a stark contrast from early
January, when the company saw record booking numbers from travelers in these
countries, said Intrepid’s North American director, Leigh Barnes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/travel/after-travel-ban-declining-interest-trips-to-united-stat... 3/12/2017
After Travel Ban, Interest in Trips to U.S. Declines - The New York Times
Page 3 of 4
The short-term weaker demand for travel to the United States aside, the bigger
concern for travel analysts is the ban’s potential to damage the country’s lucrative
tourism industry in the coming years. Statistics from the Bureau of Economic
Analysis, part of the United States Department of Commerce, show that tourismrelated spending in the United States was $1.56 trillion in 2015; tourism created 7.6
million jobs in the United States that same year.
According to Adam Sacks, the president of Tourism Economics, part of the
economic research firm Oxford Economics, President Trump’s executive order is
part of a broader policy platform and “America first” rhetoric that is creating
international antipathy toward the United States and already affecting traveler
behavior.
Earlier this month, his group conducted a study of travel to Los Angeles County
and found that the county could suffer a potential three-year loss of 800,000
international visitors as a direct result of the ban, the equivalent of $736 million in
tourism spending.
“It doesn’t take a lot of uncertainty or adverse sentiment to affect travel
decisions,” Mr. Sacks said.
And Rummy Pandit, the executive director of the Lloyd D. Levenson Institute of
Gaming, Hospitality and Tourism at Stockton University in New Jersey, said that it’s
irrelevant that the ban has been lifted. “There’s now a perception that the U.S. is a
place of instability, and that view will impact visitation to this country,” he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/travel/after-travel-ban-declining-interest-trips-to-united-stat... 3/12/2017
After Travel Ban, Interest in Trips to U.S. Declines - The New York Times
Page 4 of 4
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/20/travel/after-travel-ban-declining-interest-trips-to-united-stat... 3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 2
UC statement and preliminary guidance on revised executive order
http://nhlrc.ucla.edu/institute/article/172916
Page 1 of 4
3/12/2017
UC statement and preliminary guidance on revised executive order
http://nhlrc.ucla.edu/institute/article/172916
Page 2 of 4
3/12/2017
UC statement and preliminary guidance on revised executive order
http://nhlrc.ucla.edu/institute/article/172916
Page 3 of 4
3/12/2017
UC statement and preliminary guidance on revised executive order
http://nhlrc.ucla.edu/institute/article/172916
Page 4 of 4
3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 3
Donald Trump says if you're from Syria and a Christian, you can't come to the U.S. as a r...
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A D V E R T I S E M E N T
"If you're from Syria and you're a Christian, you cannot come
into this country" as a refugee.
— Donald Trump on Saturday, July 11th, 2015 in a speech in Las
Vegas
Donald Trump says if you're from Syria
and a Christian, you can't come to the
U.S. as a refugee
By Louis Jacobson on Monday, July 20th, 2015 at 10:00 a.m.
About this statement:
Published: Monday, July 20th, 2015 at 10:00 a.m.
Researched by: Louis Jacobson
Edited by: Angie Drobnic Holan
Subjects: Foreign Policy, Immigration, Religion
Sources:
Donald Trump, excerpt from speech in Las Vegas,
July 11, 2015
CBN News, "Donald Trump Tells Brody File: As
President 'I will be the greatest representative of the
Christians they’ve had in a long time,’ " May 20,
2015
State Department, "Proposed Refugee Admissions
for Fiscal Year 2015," Sept. 18, 2014
A Syrian refugee carries a baby over the broken border fence into Turkey on June 14, 2015. ( AP/Lefteris
Pitarakis)
Republican presidential candidate
Donald Trump has been making many
bold statements recently, but one that
caught a PolitiFact reader’s eye
involved religion and the admittance of
refugees into the United States.
UNHCR, "Syria Crisis and Resettlement," accessed
July 17, 2015
White House, "Proposed Refugee Admissions for
Fiscal Year 2014: Report to the Congress," accessed
July 17, 2014
International Business Times, "Watch Live: Donald
Trump Speaks At FreedomFest In Las Vegas Live
Stream," July 11, 2015
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, "The
United States Refugee Admissions Program
(USRAP) Consultation & Worldwide Processing
Priorities," accessed July 17, 2015
"If you're from Syria and you're a
Christian, you cannot come into this
Refugee Council USA, "Security Screening of
Refugees Admitted to the United States: A Detailed,
Rigorous Process," accessed July 17, 2015
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/20/donald-trump/donald-trum... 3/12/2017
Donald Trump says if you're from Syria and a Christian, you can't come to the U.S. as a r...
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump
country, and they're the ones that are
speaks at FreedomFest in Las Vegas on July 11,
being decimated. If you are Islamic ...
2015. (AP/John Locher)
it's hard to believe, you can come in so
easily," Trump said in a speech in Las
Vegas on July 11, 2015. "In fact, it's one of our main groups of people that are
coming in. Now, not that we should discriminate against one or the other,
but if you are Christian, you cannot get into the country. You cannot get into
the country."
Page 2 of 5
CIA World Fact Book
Email interview with Jennifer Moore, law professor
at the University of Mexico, July 15, 2015
Email interview with Bill Frelick, refugee rights
program director for Human Rights Watch, July 15,
2015
Email interview with Susan Martin, a professor of
international migration at Georgetown University,
July 15, 2015
Email interview with Karen Jacobsen, professor at
Trump has made similar arguments before, such as in an interview with the
Christian Broadcasting Network in June. So we decided to see if Trump’s
claim was accurate. Neither Trump nor the White House responded to an
inquiry, but we did communicate with representatives of a range of refugeeassistance groups and scholars who study the issue.
Tufts University’s Fletcher School of Law &
Diplomacy, July 15, 2015
Email interview with Geoffrey Mock, Syrian country
specialist for Amnesty International USA, July 15,
2015
Email interview with Shaina Ward, associate
director of Refugee Council USA, July 15, 2015
The most that can be said for Trump’s claim is that there is a sizable
difference between the number of Muslims and the number of Christians
that have come into the United States as refugees so far.
Between Oct. 1, 2014, and July 17, 2015, according to federal data, 859 Sunni
Muslims, five Shiite Muslims and 42 people identified only as "Muslim"
arrived in the United States as refugees from Syria, for a total of 906.
Meanwhile, 28 Christians arrived from Syria. (Other arrivals included two
atheists, two of the Baha'i faith and one with no stated religion.)
How to contact us
Email comments and suggestions for fact-checks to
truthometer@politifact.com or find us on
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we'll assume you don't mind us publishing it unless
you tell us otherwise.)
Videos
So, on its face, Trump’s claim that you "cannot come into this country" if
you’re a Christian from Syria is wrong.
Still, this data finds that 96 percent of the refugee arrivals from Syria were
Muslim, compared to only about 3 percent who were Christian. However, it’s
important to keep in mind that the population of Syria is overwhelmingly
Muslim to start with. The CIA World Fact Book says Syria’s population is 87
percent Muslim and 10 percent Christian.
In other words, the refugee numbers are a bit more heavily Muslim and a bit
less Christian than the population at large, but not dramatically so.
"While there may be higher numbers of Muslims from Syria who have come
to the U.S. than Christians, this is not reflective of any policy making it easier
for Muslims and harder for Christians," said Shaina Ward, associate director
of Refugee Council USA.
More videos:
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Ward noted that the the United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees
does most of the initial screening of refugees seeking resettlement. UNHCR,
she said, "identifies and refers the most vulnerable, whoever they are," using
a variety of criteria in addition to religion
More importantly, there is no evidence whatsoever for the most explosive
element of Trump’s charge -- that the U.S. government is discriminating
against Christians as a matter of official policy.
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http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/20/donald-trump/donald-trum... 3/12/2017
Donald Trump says if you're from Syria and a Christian, you can't come to the U.S. as a r...
"The U.S. refugee resettlement program is open to Muslims and Christians,
as well as to members of other targeted religious groups," said Jennifer
Moore, a law professor at the University of New Mexico.
Page 3 of 5
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Karen Jacobsen, a professor at Tufts University’s Fletcher School of Law &
Diplomacy, agreed, calling Trump’s charge "completely untrue."
"The U.S. government does not discriminate on the basis of religion in
refugee admission or resettlement, and if you look at refugee admissions by
religion over the past 10 years, rather than just at the Syrian refugees in the
past few years, there are likely more Christians than Muslims," Jacobsen
said.
Representatives of three human-rights groups we contacted -- Amnesty
International, Human Rights Watch and the Refugee Council USA -- also
agreed that Trump’s accusation is off-base.
A D V E R T I S E M E N T
Geoffrey Mock, the Syrian country specialist for Amnesty International USA,
agreed, adding that he has "worked with Christians from Egypt and Syria, so
I know they are getting in."
Some experts argued that the biggest problem with the refugee flow from
Syria is not that it’s discriminatory against Christians, but that the trickle has
been so small.
In September 2014, the State Department wrote that "the refugee crisis
caused by the conflict in Syria is the worst the world has witnessed in a
generation, with more than 2.9 million refugees in the region. More than 9
million people need assistance, including 6.5 million displaced inside Syria."
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Yet the U.S. government, as noted before, has let in a tiny fraction of those
numbers -- less than 1,000 in the past nine months, and only about 2,500
prior to August 2014.
One reason for the small number of admittances is the long process facing
refugees. Once a case is referred from the UNHCR to the United States, a
refugee must undergo a security clearance check that could take several
rounds, an in-person interview, approval by the Department of Homeland
Security, medical screening, a match with a sponsor agency, "cultural
orientation" classes, and one final security clearance. The background checks
are often particularly complicated for refugees who were forced to flee their
homes without the opportunity to gather important paperwork.
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Given these requirements, Susan Martin, a professor of international
migration at Georgetown University, takes issue with the claim by Trump
that if you’re a Muslim, "you can come in so easily."
"I know from my own research and the literature on resettlement that no one
comes in 'easily,’ " she said. "The security checks are very comprehensive and
very time consuming. When I was looking at resettlement of Iraqi refugees in
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/20/donald-trump/donald-trum... 3/12/2017
Donald Trump says if you're from Syria and a Christian, you can't come to the U.S. as a r...
Page 4 of 5
Jordan a few years ago, I met with a number of families who had been
approved for admission to the United States by the Department of Homeland
Security but were awaiting their security checks. Most had been waiting for
months, including families with young children who were in need of
specialized medical care. I don't think any of them would have characterized
the process as easy.’ "
A final note: There is one step that the U.S. government could take if it
wished. It could give Christian refugees from Syria a leg up on resettlement
by granting them status as a "priority 2" or "P-2" class -- "groups of special
humanitarian concern identified by the U.S. refugee program," according to
the government.
P-2 groups have long included Jews, evangelical Christians, and Ukrainian
Catholic and Orthodox religious adherents from what used to be the Soviet
Union, as well as dissidents from Cuba and a variety of religious minorities in
Iran. It also included Vietnamese refugees until 2009 and Bosnian refugees
during the 1990s-era civil war. It now includes Iraqis who helped United
States military or diplomatic efforts after the Iraq War, as well as certain
Burmese, Bhutanese and Congolese refugees.
So far, no group from Syria, Christians or otherwise, has been granted this
status.
Our ruling
Trump said that "if you're from Syria and you're a Christian, you cannot
come into this country" as a refugee. This is wrong on its face -- a small
number of Syrian Christians been admitted as refugees over the past nine
months -- and also false in spirit, since there is nothing in the United States’
laws or regulations that discriminates against Christian refugees. We rate the
claim False.
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 4
Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration | Donald J Trump for Pre... Page 1 of 2
INSTAGRAM
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- DECEMBER 07, 2015 -
DONALD J. TRUMP STATEMENT ON
PREVENTING MUSLIM IMMIGRATION
FACEBOOK
VIEW ALL
STATEMENTS
(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and
complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's
representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among
others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim
population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data
showing "25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the
ANNOUNCEMENTS
ENDORSEMENTS
ADS
United States is justified as a part of the global jihad" and 51% of those polled, "agreed
that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to
Shariah." Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who
won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to
ARCHIVE
Americans, especially women.
Mr. Trump stated, "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody
the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will
have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and
the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous
NOVEMBER 2016
OCTOBER 2016
SEPTEMBER 2016
attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for
human life. If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great
AUGUST 2016
Again." - Donald J. Trump
JULY 2016
JUNE 2016
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3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 5
Donald Trump says he is not bothered by comparisons to Hitler - The Washington Post
Page 1 of 3
Post Politics
Donald Trump says he is
not bothered by
comparisons to Hitler
By Jenna Johnson December 8, 2015
Editor's note: This story is from 2015.
The comparison between Donald Trump and Hitler is being made more and more frequently -- including on
the cover of Tuesday's Philadelphia Daily News -- but the Republican front-runner said Tuesday that the
comparison doesn't bother him.
"You're increasingly being compared to Hitler," ABC News' George Stephanopoulos said during an interview
with Trump on "Good Morning America" Tuesday. "Does that give you any pause at all?"
"No," Trump responded, "because what I am doing is no different than what FDR -- FDR's solution for
Germans, Italians, Japanese, you know, many years ago."
Stephanopoulos jumped in as Trump kept talking: "So you're for internment camps?"
"This is a president who is highly respected by all," Trump said of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. "He did the
same thing -- if you look at what he was doing, it was far worse."
[ This is what happens when Donald Trump attacks a private citizen on Twitter]
Trump's answer was confusing and meandering but he seemed to be making the point that during times of
war, more extreme measures must be used.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/12/08/donald-trump-says-he... 3/12/2017
Donald Trump says he is not bothered by comparisons to Hitler - The Washington Post
Page 2 of 3
"We are now at war," Trump said. "We have a president that doesn't want to say that, but we are now at
war."
"I've got to press you on that, sir,"Stephanopoulos said. "So you're praising FDR there, I take it you're
praising the setting up of internment camps for Japanese during World War II?"
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"No, I'm not," Trump responded. "No, I'm not. No, I'm not."
Trump then rattled off the numbers of some of the presidential proclamations Roosevelt issued "having to
do with alien Germans, alien Italians, alien Japanese."
"They went through a whole list of things -- they couldn't go five miles from their homes, they weren't
allowed to use radios, flashlights," Trump said. "Take a look at what FDR did many years ago, and he's one
of the most highly respected presidents... They named highways after him."
Stephanopoulos responded: "You want to bring back policies like that?"
After a pause, Trump responded: "No, I don't to bring it back, George. At all. I don't like doing it at all. It's a
temporary measure until our representatives, many of whom are grossly incompetent, until our
representatives can figure out what's going on."
Jenna Johnson is a political reporter who covers the White House. She spent more than than a
year writing about Donald Trump's presidential campaign, traveling to 35 states to attend more
than 170 political rallies and interview hundreds of Trump supporters. Follow @wpjenna
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/12/08/donald-trump-says-he... 3/12/2017
Donald Trump says he is not bothered by comparisons to Hitler - The Washington Post
Page 3 of 3
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 6
Trump not bothered by comparisons to Hitler - POLITICO
Page 1 of 7
POLITICO
Donald Trump has come under fire for calling for temporarily banning all Muslims from entering the U.S.
Trump not bothered by comparisons to Hitler
The billionaire businessman refuses to back off his proposal to temporarily ban all
Muslims from entering the U.S.
By NICK GASS 112/08/15 07:51 AM EST
Donald Trump went on a series of rhetorical rants on Tuesday morning, saying he does not
mind comparisons to Adolf Hitler and tussling with morning show anchors about his
proposal to temporarily ban all Muslims from entering the United States, calling his
approach more akin to what Hitler's American contemporary did during World War II.
"You're increasingly being compared to Hitler. Doesn't that give you any pause at all?" ABC
News' George Stephanopoulos asked the Republican poll leader on "Good Morning
http://www.politico.com/trump-muslims-shutdown-hitler-comparison
3/12/2017
Trump not bothered by comparisons to Hitler - POLITICO
Page 2 of 7
America," displaying an image of the Philadelphia Daily News' punning Tuesday front-page
headline "The New Furor."
In response, Trump said no, invoking what he termed President Franklin D. Roosevelt's
"solution for Germans, Italians, Japanese many years ago" during World War II. "This was a
president that was highly respected by all," Trump said, remarking upon the Democratic
president's actions during the war. "If you look at what he was doing, it was far worse."
Pressed whether he would then advocate the establishment of internment camps for
Muslims, for example, Trump forcefully denied that notion. "No, I'm not. No, I'm not. No,
I'm not," he said, remarking that European cities like Paris and London no longer look like
they once did.
"I hope it will go quickly. I hope we can figure it out," Trump said. "We will have many,
many more World Trade Centers as sure as you're sitting there, our country will never be the
same."
Ryan repudiates Trump over Muslim ban
By JAKE SHERMAN
Trump, no stranger to dropping rhetorical bombs since he announced his presidential run
in June, still managed to stun with his proposal emailed late Monday with the simple title:
"Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration."
In it, Trump used research from the Center for Security Policy, which has been called an
extremist group, to back his claim that an alarming number of Muslims want to unleash
violence in the United States. "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to
anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension," Trump said in his statement, which many in
the media believed might have been a hoax when it landed. "Where this hatred comes from
and why we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this
problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous
attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for
human life."
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3/12/2017
Trump not bothered by comparisons to Hitler - POLITICO
Page 3 of 7
inRead invented by Teads
The proposal came less than a week after a married Muslim couple killed 14 people and
wounded 21in a shooting attack that is apparently the most deadly terrorist act on U.S. soil
since 9 /11. Trump's statement, which he promoted at a Pearl Harbor Day rally in South
Carolina on Monday night, played into Americans' fears stoked by the attack and also gave
Trump a chance to draw attention back to him after a poll released earlier in the day showed
Ted Cruz zooming past him in Iowa.
Many of his rivals quickly condemned the comments, with Jeb Bush calling Trump
"unhinged," Chris Christie calling it "a ridiculous view," and Marco Rubio saying, "His habit
of making offensive and outlandish statements will not bring Americans together."
But the outcry only further threw attention Trump's way, and the billionaire businessman
did not let up on Tuesday morning.
He continued trying to justify his proposal in interviews on CNN's "New Day" and MSNBC's
"Morning Joe," the latter of which suspended its interview with Trump only minutes into the
segment after co-host Joe Scarborough complained that the candidate was not allowing him
to ask any questions. The show returned with a full panel of questions, and the entire
segment ran more than a half-hour.
J.K. Rowling: Trump is worse than Voldemort
By NICK GASS
During his questioning on MSNBC, Trump was grilled on what the customs process would
look like for a Muslim non-citizen attempting to enter the U.S.
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"That would be probably — they would say, are you Muslim?" Trump told contributor Willie
Geist.
"And if they said yes, they would not be allowed in the country," Geist volunteered. "That's
correct," Trump responded.
In the same interview, Trump also claimed that the Muslim community is not doing enough
to self-report suspicious activity in light of last Wednesday's attack in California. Asked by
co-host Mika Brzezinski whether he would want to engage the Muslim community, the
Manhattan mogul said he would not, "but the Muslim community has to help us, Mika.
They're not helping us."
"The Muslim community is not reporting what's going on. They should be reporting that
their next-door neighbor is making pipe bombs and they've got them all over the place. The
mother's in the apartment, other people, his friend was buying him rifles. Nobody was
reporting that," he said of the San Bernardino case. "The Muslim community has to help us,
because without the Muslim community, we would have to get very tough and much
tougher, and I don't want to do that. But the Muslim community is not a one-way street. The
Muslim community knew that this guy, what he was doing, and his wife, his very heavily
radicalized wife, they knew what they were doing was wrong. Nobody called the police.
Nobody said this is what happened."
At the start of the interview on ABC, Trump forcefully defended his statement, citing
"tremendous support" and the "thousands and thousands of people you saw last night" at
his rally in South Carolina. "We were on a ship. There were thousands of people there, there
were thousands of people outside that couldn't get in. And frankly, it was a standing ovation
that wouldn't stop," he remarked.
"I mean, people went and interviewed the people that were at my speech last night, and they
just want to see something happening. We had the World Trade Center, we had the preWorld Trade Center," he said, referring to both the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks that destroyed the
twin towers as well as the Feb. 26,1993, bombing.
"You know, remember, a lot of people forget now — they tried to blow it up twice. We had so
many other incidents, and we had now the last incident in California. Now it turns out that
$28,000 was deposited in this punk's savings account probably given by some people that
we are fighting," he speculated, following reports Monday that more than $28,000 had been
deposited into the account of San Bernardino co-attacker Syed Rizwan Farook. "Something
has to be done," he added.
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Joe Scarborough cuts off Trump:'You can't just talk'
By NICK GASs
_
_._
Trump, who on MSNBC declared himself to be more specific than any other candidate in the.
race, had a parting message for Muslims: "We love you, we want to work with you, we want
you to turn in the bad ones, we want you to practice vigilance, we know that if you know a
lot, in many cases, we want you to turn in the bad ones. We all want to get along. We want to
get back to a normal, peaceful life."
On how he would get it done, Trump, offered no specifics other than to again lambaste
President Barack Obama's Sunday night speech on defeating ISIL and to repeat his Monday
statement.
"What I'm doing is I'm calling very simply for a shutdown of Muslims entering the United
States — and here's a key — until our country's representatives can figure out what is going
on. They don't know. Our president, I watched him make a fool of himself the other night
with a speech that nobody still knows — I tweeted out, is that all there is? He didn't say
anything. He doesn't know what's going on. And we have people in this country that want
to blow up our country. You know it, and so do I," he said on "Good Morning America."
"The polls have come out, and various polls that I've quoted, with 25 percent of those polls
agreed the violence against the Americans in the United States is justified. And they're
looking at the jihad. They want a global jihad. George, we can't take it sitting back. You will
have many more World Trade Centers. It will only get worse," Trump warned. "You look at
Paris, you know, and I'm not talking about the horrible carnage that took place. Paris is no
longer the same city."
American Muslim citizens would be able to come back to the U.S., Trump said, adding, "but
we have to figure things out."
Many legal scholars came out against the proposal, saying such a religious test would
violate the U.S. Constitution. And the spectrum of blowback stretched wide and far. Former
Vice President Dick Cheney said on Hugh Hewitt's radio show, "Well I think this whole
notion that somehow we need to say no more Muslims and just ban a whole religion goes
against everything we stand for and believe in. I mean religious freedom's been a very
important part of our, our history."
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Huma Abedin, the vice chairwoman of Hillary Clinton's campaign, sent an email to
supporters saying, "I'm a proud Muslim — but you don't have to share my faith" to know
"my disgust."
After Obama aides spoke out on Monday evening, White House communications director
Jen Psaki said at a POLITICO Playbook breakfast on Tuesday morning that Trump is not the
only Republican making irresponsible comments, but she said the real estate mogul's
statement are especially dangerous.
"So the reason it's dangerous ... is that this is kind of sending a message that the American
people, that our values are different from what they once were. Sending the message that
we want to be in competition or we want to be, you know, thwarting the Muslim community
instead of working with the Muslim community as a partner," Psaki said.
On the Republican side, Sen. Lindsey Graham re-upped his criticism, speaking on both CNN
and MSNBC on Tuesday morning to call out his presidential rival. "He is a wrecking ball for
the Republican Party. He is a xenophobic, race-baiting, religious bigot, and I think that's
who they're supporting. Time will tell how long this goes."
The heads of state Republican parties in the early voting states of Iowa, New Hampshire and
South Carolina also expressed public disapproval of Trump's proposal. "There are some
issues that transcend politics. While my position [as party chairwoman] is certainly
political, I am an American first," said New Hampshire GOP Chairwoman Jennifer Horn,
who has been a Trump critic, according to WMUR. "There should never be a day in the
United States of America when people are excluded based solely on their race or religion. It
is un-Republican. It is unconstitutional. And it is un-American."
In response, Trump told Stephanopoulos, "Well, first of all, George, she's a Bush person.
And she wants to see Bush, and Bush has crashed like nobody else has ever seen anyone
crash before."
The United Nations' refugee settlement agency said Tuesday that campaign rhetoric from
the United States is doing real harm.
"What the candidate you are speaking of was speaking of was an entire population, but this
also impacts the refugee program," Melissa Fleming, a spokeswoman for the United Nations
High Commission on Refugees, told reporters in Geneva, according to Reuters. "Because our
refugee program is religion-blind. Our resettlement program selects the people who are the
most in need."
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Republican Candidates Debate in North Charleston, South Carolina
January 14, 2016
PARTICIPANTS:
Former Governor Jeb Bush (FL);
Ben Carson;
Governor Chris Christie (NJ);
Senator Ted Cruz (TX);
Governor John Kasich (OH);
Senator Marco Rubio (FL);
Location:
Donald Trump;
MODERATORS:
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Neil Cavuto (Fox Business Network)
CAVUTO: It is 9:00 p.m. here at the North Charleston Coliseum and Performing Arts Center in
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South Carolina. Welcome to the sixth Republican presidential of the 2016 campaign, here on the
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BARTIROMO: Tonight we are working with Facebook to ask the candidates the questions voters
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CAVUTO: Now, the seven candidates on the stage tonight were selected based on their standing in
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Businessman Donald Trump. [applause]
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BARTIROMO: Tonight's rules are simple: up to 90 seconds for each answer, one minute for each follow-up response.
And if a candidate goes over the allotted time, you'll hear this. [bell rings] So let's get started. Candidates, jobs and growth
— two of the biggest issues facing the country right now. In his State of the Union address earlier this week, the president
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The president said that anyone who claims America's economy is in decline is peddling fiction. Senator Cruz, what do you
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CRUZ: Well, Maria, thank you for that question, and let me say thank you to the state of South Carolina for welcoming
us.
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Let me start — I want to get to the substance of the question on jobs, but I want to start with something. Today, many of
us picked up our newspapers, and we were horrified to see the sight of 10 American sailors on their knees, with their
hands on their heads.
In that State of the Union, President Obama didn't so much as mention the 10 sailors that had been captured by Iran.
President Obama's preparing to send $100 billion or more to the Ayatollah Khamenei. And I'll tell you, it was
heartbreaking.
But the good news is the next commander-in-chief is standing on this stage. [applause] And I give you my word, if I am
elected president, no service man or service woman will be forced to be on their knees, and any nation that captures our
fighting men will feel the full force and fury of the United States of America. [applause]
Now, on to your substantive question. The president tried to paint a rosy picture of jobs. And you know, he's right. If
you're a Washington lobbyist, if you make your money in and around Washington, things are doing great. The millionaires
and billionaires are doing great under Obama. But we have the lowest percentage of Americans working today of any year
since 1977. Median wages have stagnated. And the Obama-Clinton economy has left behind the working men and women
of this country.
The reason all of us are here is we believe we should be fighting for the working men and women of this country, and not
Washington, D.C.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. [applause]
CAVUTO: Governor Kasich, we are not even two weeks into this stock trading year, but [inaudible] investors already lost
$1.6 trillion in market value. That makes it the worst start to a new year ever. Many worry that things will get even worse,
and that banks and financial stocks are particularly vulnerable.
Now, if this escalates, like it did back when Barack Obama first assumed the presidency, what actions would you take if
this same thing happens all over again just as, in this example, you are taking over the presidency?
KASICH: Look, it takes three things basically to grow jobs. And I've done it when I was in Washington when we had a
balanced budget; had four years of balanced budgets; paid down a half-trillion of debt. And our economy was growing like
crazy. It's the same thing that I did in Ohio. It's a simple formula: common sense regulations, which is why I think we
should freeze all federal regulations for one year, except for health and safety. It requires tax cuts, because that sends a
message to the job creators that things are headed the right way. And if you tax cuts — if you cut taxes for corporations,
and you cut taxes for individuals, you're going to make things move, particularly the corporate tax, which is the highest, of
course, in the — in the world.
But in addition to that, we have to have fiscal discipline. We have to show that we can march to a balanced budget. And
when you do that, when you're in a position of managing regulations; when you reduce taxes; and when you have fiscal
discipline, you see the job creators begin to get very comfortable with the fact that they can invest.
Right now, you don't have the — you have taxes that are too high. You have regulations — I mean, come on, they're
affecting everybody here, particularly our small businesses. They are — they're in a position where they're smothering
people. And I mean, are you kidding me? We're nowhere close to a balanced budget or fiscal discipline.
Those three things put together are going to give confidence to job creators and you will begin to see wages rise. You will
begin to see jobs created in a robust economy. And how do I know it? Because I've done it. I did it as the chairman of the
Budget Committee, working with Senator Domenici. And I've done it in the state of Ohio as the chief executive.
Our wages are growing faster than the national average. We're running surpluses. And we can take that message and that
formula to Washington to lift every single American to a better life. [applause]
BARTIROMO: We know that recent global events have many people worried — Iran detaining American sailors, forcing
them to apologize; North Korea and its nuclear ambitions; an aggressive China; and a Middle East that continues to
deteriorate, not to mention ISIS is getting stronger.
Governor Christie, sometimes it seems the world is on fire. Where and when should a president use military action to
restore order?
CHRISTIE: Well, Maria, I'm glad to have heard from you in the summary of that question about what's going on in the
world. Because Tuesday night, I watched story time with Barack Obama. And I've got to tell you, it sounded like
everything in the world was going amazing, you know? [applause]
The fact is, there's a number of things that the next president is going to have to do to clean up this mess. The first thing is
we have to strengthen our alliances around the world. And the best way to do that is to start talking to our allies again and
having them be able to count on our word.
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Lots of people will say lots of different things about me in this campaign and others, but the one thing they've never said
about me is that I'm misunderstood. And so when we talk to our allies and we give them our word, in a Christie
administration, they know we're going to keep it.
Next, we have to talk to our adversaries, and we have to make sure they understand the limits of our patience. And this
president, given what Ted said right at the beginning, he's absolutely right. It's a — it's absolutely disgraceful that
Secretary Kerry and others said in their response to what's going on in Iran that this was a good thing; it showed how the
relationship was getting better.
The president doesn't understand — and by the way, neither does Secretary Clinton — and here's my warning to
everybody out in the audience tonight. If you're worried about the world being on fire, you're worried about how we're
going to use our military, you're worried about strengthening our military and you're worried most of all about keeping
your homes and your families safe and secure, you cannot give Hillary Clinton a third term of Barack Obama's leadership.
I will not do that. If I'm the nominee, she won't get within 10 miles of the White House. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Just to be clear Governor, where and when would you use military action?
CHRISTIE: MIlitary action, Maria, would be used when it was absolutely necessary to protect American lives and protect
American interests around the world. We are not the world's policeman, but we need to stand up and be ready.
And the problem, Maria, is that the military is not ready, either. We need to rebuild our military, and this president has let
it diminish to a point where tinpot dictators like the mullahs in Iran are taking our Navy ships. It is disgraceful, and in a
Christie administration, they would know much, much better than to do that. [applause]
CAVUTO: Governor Bush, the president just told the nation two nights ago that America is back and that the idea that
our enemies are getting stronger or that this country is getting weaker, well, it's just rhetoric and hot air. Now other
Democrats go even further, sir, saying Republicans even suggesting such comments actually embolden our enemies. I
guess they would include you. What do you say?
BUSH: Well first of all, the idea that somehow we're better off today than the day that Barack Obama was inaugurated
president of the United States is totally an alternative universe. The simple fact is that the world has been torn asunder.
Think about it. With grandiose language, the president talks about red lines and nothing to follow it up; talks about ISIS
being the JV team, they form a caliphate the size of Indiana with 35 (thousand) to 40,000 battle-tested terrorists. He's
missing the whole point, that America's leadership in the world is required for peace and stability.
In the crowd today is Major General James Livingston, who's the co-chairman of my campaign here in South Carolina, a
Medal of Honor recipient. [applause]
I've learned from him that what we need to achieve is peace through strength, which means we need to rebuild the
military. In this administration, every weapon system has been gutted, in this administration, the force levels are going
down to a level where we can't even project force. Our friends no longer think we have their back and our enemies no
longer fear us, and we're in a much difficult — we're in a much different position than we should be.
And for the life of me, I have no understanding why the president thinks that everything is going well. Terrorism is on the
run, China, Russia is advancing their agenda at warp speed, and we pull back.
As president of the United States, I will be a commander in chief that will have the back of the military. We will rebuild the
military to make sure that it is a solid force, not to be the world's policeman, but to make sure that in a peaceful world,
people know that the United States is there to take care of our own national interests and take care of our allies.
[applause]
CAVUTO: So I take it from that you do not agree with the president.
BUSH: No. And worse — worse yet, to be honest with you, Hillary Clinton would be a national security disaster.
Think about it. She wants to continue down the path of Iran, Benghazi, the Russian reset, Dodd-Frank, all the things that
have — that have gone wrong in this country, she would be a national security mess. And that is wrong.
And you know what? Here's the problem. If she gets elected, she's under investigation with the FBI right now. If she gets
elected, her first 100 days, instead of setting an agenda, she might be going back and forth between the White House and
the courthouse. We need to stop that. [laughter and applause]
CAVUTO: Senator Rubio, the president says that ISIS doesn't threaten our national existence like a Germany or a Japan
back in World War II, that the terror group is nothing more than twisted souls plotting attacks in their garages.
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But House Homeland Security Committee recently said that over 1,000 ongoing investigations of homegrown extremism
in 50 states. So how do you define the threat? Germany then or dangerous nut cases now?
RUBIO: Yeah, I would go, first of all, one step further in this description of Hillary Clinton. She wouldn't just be a
disaster, Hillary Clinton is disqualified from being commander in chief of the United States. [applause]
Someone who cannot handle intelligence information appropriately cannot be commander in chief and someone who lies
to the families of those four victims in Benghazi can never be president of the United States. Ever. [applause]
On the issue of Barack Obama, Barack Obama does not believe that America is a great global power. Barack Obama
believes that America is a arrogant global power that needs to be cut down to size. And that's how you get a foreign policy
where we cut deals with our enemies like Iran and we betray our allies like Israel and we gut our military and we go
around the world like he has done on 10 separate occasions and apologized for America.
He doesn't understand the threat in ISIS. He consistently underestimates it but I do not. There is a war against ISIS, not
just against ISIS but against radical jihadists terrorists, and it is a war that they win or we win.
When I'm president of the United States, we are going to win this war on ISIS. The most powerful intelligence agency in
the world is going to tell us where we are, the most powerful military in the world is going to destroy them. And if we
capture any of them alive, they are getting a one-way ticket to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and we are going to find out
everything they know. [applause]
CAVUTO: Thank you, Senator.
BARTIROMO: Dr. Carson, the president says he does not want to treat ISIS as a foreign army, but ISIS is neither a
country nor a government. How do you attack a network that does not respect national borders?
CARSON: Well, I'm very happy to get a question this early on. I was going to ask you to wake me up when that time
came. [laughter]
You know, I find it really quite fascinating some of the president's proclamations. The fact of the matter is he doesn't
realize that we now live in the 21st century, and that war is very different than it used to be before. Not armies massively
marching on each other and air forces, but now we have dirty bombs and we have cyber attacks and we have people who
will be attacking our electrical grid. And, you know, we have a whole variety of things that they can do and they can do
these things simultaneously. And we have enemies who are obtaining nuclear weapons that they can explode in our
exoatmosphere and destroy our electric grid.
I mean, just think about a scenario like that. They explode the bomb, we have an electromagnetic pulse. They hit us with a
cyberattack simultaneously and dirty bombs. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue at that point? He needs to
recognize that those kinds of things are in fact an existential threat to us.
But here's the real key. We have the world's best military, even though he's done everything he can to diminish it. And the
fact of the matter is if we give them a mission and we don't tie their hands behind their back, they can get it accomplished.
[applause]
CAVUTO: Mr. Trump, at the State of the Union, the president pointed to a guest who was a Syrian refugee you might
recall whose wife and daughter and other family members were killed in an air attack. Now he fled that country seeking
asylum here, ultimately ended up in Detroit where he's now trying to start a new life.
The president says that that doctor is the real face of these refugees and not the one that you and some of your colleagues
on this stage are painting; that you prefer the face of fear and terror and that you would refuse to let in anyone into this
country seeking legitimate asylum. How do you answer that?
TRUMP: It's not fear and terror, it's reality. You just have to look today at Indonesia, bombings all over. [applause]
You look at California, you look, frankly, at Paris where there's a — the strictest no-gun policy of any city anywhere in the
world, and you see what happens: 130 people dead with many to follow. They're very, very badly wounded. They will —
some will follow. And you look around, and you see what's happening, and this is not the case when he introduced the
doctor — very nice, everything perfect but that is not representative of what you have in that line of migration.
That could be the great Trojan Horse. It could be people that are going to do great, great destruction. When I look at the
migration, I looked at the line, I said it actually on your show recently, where are the women? It looked like very few
women. Very few children. Strong, powerful men, young and people are looking at that and they're saying what's going
on?
You look at the kind of damage that two people that two people that got married, they were radicalized — they got
married, they killed 15 people in actually 15 — going to be probably 16 but you look at that and you take a look — a good
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strong look and that's what we have. We are nineteen trillion dollars — our country's a mess and we can't let all these
people come into our country and break our borders. We can't do it. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Senator Cruz, the New York Times is reporting that you failed to properly disclose a million dollars in
loans from Goldman Sachs and CitiBank. During your senate race, your campaign said, "it was inadvertent." A million
dollars is inadvertent?
CRUZ: Well Maria, thank you for passing on that hit piece in the front page of the New York Times. You know the nice
thing about the mainstream media, they don't hide their views. The New York Times a few weeks back had a columnist
who wrote a column saying, "Anybody But Cruz." Had that actually — that same columnist wrote a column comparing me
to an evil demonic spirit from the move, "It Follows" that jumps apparently from body to body possessing people.
So you know the New York Times and I don't have exactly have the warmest of relationships. Now in terms of their really
stunning hit piece, what they mentioned is when I was running for senate — unlike Hillary Clinton, I don't have masses of
money in the bank, hundreds of millions of dollars. When I was running for senate just about every lobbyist, just about all
of the establishment opposed me in the senate race in Texas and my opponent in that race was worth over 200 million
dollars. He put a 25 million dollar check up from his own pocket to fund that campaign and my wife Heidi and I, we ended
up investing everything we owned.
We took a loan against our assets to invest it in that campaign to defend ourselves against those attacks. And the entire
New York times attack — is that I disclosed that loan on one filing with the United States Senate, that was a public filing.
But it was not on a second filing with FDIC and yes, I made a paperwork error disclosing it on one piece of paper instead
of the other. But if that's the best the New York Times has got, they better go back to the well.
BARTIROMO: Thank you.
[commercial break]
CAVUTO: All right. Welcome back to the Republican presidential , right here in North Charleston, South Carolina. Let's
get right back to the questions. And I'll start with you, Senator Cruz.
Now you are, of course, a strict constitutionalist — no one would doubt that. And as you know, the U.S. Constitution says
only natural-born citizens are eligible for the office of president of the United States. Stop me if you've heard this before.
Now, you were born...[laughter]... you were born in Canada to an American mother. So you were and are considered an
American citizen. But that fellow next to you, Donald Trump — and others — have said that being born in Canada means
you are not natural-born, and that has raised questions about your eligibility.
Do you want to try to close this topic once and for all tonight?
CRUZ: Well, Neil, I'm glad we're focusing on the important topics of the evening. [laughter and applause]
You know, back in September, my friend Donald said that he had had his lawyers look at this from every which way, and
there was no issue there. There was nothing to this birther issue. [laughter]
Now, since September, the Constitution hasn't changed. [laughter]
But the poll numbers have. [applause]
And I recognize — I recognize that Donald is dismayed that his poll numbers are falling in Iowa. But the facts and the law
here are really quite clear. Under longstanding U.S. law, the child of a U.S. citizen born abroad is a natural-born citizen.
If a soldier has a child abroad, that child is a natural-born citizen. That's why John McCain, even though he was born in
Panama, was eligible to run for president.
If an American missionary has a child abroad, that child is a natural-born citizen. That's why George Romney, Mitt's dad,
was eligible to run for president, even though he was born in Mexico.
At the end of the day, the legal issue is quite straightforward, but I would note that the birther theories that Donald has
been relying on — some of the more extreme ones insist that you must not only be born on U.S. soil, but have two parents
born on U.S. soil.
Under that theory, not only would I be disqualified, Marco Rubio would be disqualified, Bobby Jindal would be
disqualified and, interestingly enough, Donald J. Trump would be disqualified. [applause]
UNKNOWN: Not me.
CRUZ: Because — because Donald's mother was born in Scotland. She was naturalized. Now, Donald...
TRUMP: But I was born here.
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CRUZ: ... on the issue — on the issue of citizenship, Donald...
TRUMP: [inaudible]. Big difference.
CRUZ: ... on the issue of citizenship, Donald, I'm not going to use your mother's birth against you.
TRUMP: OK, good. Because it wouldn't work.
CRUZ: You're an American, as is everybody else on this stage, and I would suggest we focus on who's best prepared to be
commander- in-chief, because that's the most important question facing the country. [applause]
CAVUTO: Mr. Trump...[crosstalk]...that you raised it because of his rising poll numbers.
TRUMP: ... first of all, let me just tell you something — and you know, because you just saw the numbers yourself — NBC
Wall Street Journal just came out with a poll — headline: Trump way up, Cruz going down. I mean, so don't — so you can't
— you can't...[booing]...they don't like the Wall Street Journal. They don't like NBC, but I like the poll. [laughter]
And frankly, it just came out, and in Iowa now, as you know, Ted, in the last three polls, I'm beating you. So — you know,
you shouldn't misrepresent how well you're doing with the polls. [applause]
You don't have to say that. In fact, I was all for you until you started doing that, because that's a misrepresentation,
number one.
Number two, this isn't me saying it. I don't care. I think I'm going to win fair and square [inaudible] to win this way.
Thank you.
Lawrence Tribe and [inaudible] from Harvard — of Harvard, said that there is a serious question as to whether or not Ted
can do this. OK? There are other attorneys that feel, and very, very fine constitutional attorneys, that feel that because he
was not born on the land, he cannot run for office.
Here's the problem. We're running. We're running. He does great. I win. I choose him as my vice presidential candidate,
and the Democrats sue because we can't take him along for the ride. I don't like that. OK? [laughter]
The fact is — and if for some reason he beats the rest of the field, he beats the rest of the field [inaudible]. See, they don't
like that. They don't like that. [audience booing]
No, they don't like he beats the rest of the field, because they want me. [laughter]
But — if for some reason, Neil, he beats the rest of the field, I already know the Democrats are going to be bringing a suit.
You have a big lawsuit over your head while you're running. And if you become the nominee, who the hell knows if you
can even serve in office? So you should go out, get a declaratory judgment, let the courts decide. And you shouldn't have
mentioned the polls because I would have been much...[crosstalk]
CAVUTO: Why are you saying this now — right now? Why are you raising this issue now?
TRUMP: Because now he's going a little bit better. No, I didn't care [inaudible]. It's true. No, it's true. Hey look, he never
had a chance. Now, he's doing better. He's got probably a four or five percent chance. [laughter]
[crosstalk]
CRUZ: Neil... [crosstalk]
TRUMP: The fact is, there is a big overhang. There's a big question mark on your head. And you can't do that to the
party. You really can't. You can't do that to the party. You have to have certainty. Even if it was a one percent chance, and
it's far greater than one percent because [inaudible].
I mean, you have great constitutional lawyers that say you can't run. If there was a — and you know I'm not bringing a
suit. I promise. But the Democrats are going to bring a lawsuit, and you have to have certainty. You can't have a question.
I can agree with you or not, but you can't have a question over your head.
CAVUTO: Senator, do you want to respond?
CRUZ: Well, listen, I've spent my entire life defending the Constitution before the U.S. Supreme Court. And I'll tell you,
I'm not going to be taking legal advice from Donald Trump.
TRUMP: You don't have to. Take it from Lawrence Tribe. [applause] [crosstalk]
Take it from your professors...[crosstalk]
CRUZ: The chances of any litigation proceeding and succeeding on this are zero. And Mr. Trump is very focused...
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TRUMP: He's wrong. He's wrong.
CRUZ: ... on Larry Tribe. Let me tell you who Larry Tribe is. He's a left-wing judicial activist, Harvard Law professor who
was Al Gore's lawyer in Bush versus Gore. He's a major Hillary Clinton supporter. And there's a reason why Hillary's
supporters are echoing Donald's attacks on me, because Hillary...
TRUMP: He is not the only one.
CRUZ: ... wants to face Donald Trump in the general election.
TRUMP: There are many lawyers.
CRUZ: And I'll tell you what, Donald, you — you very kindly just a moment ago offered me the V.P. slot. [laughter]
I'll tell you what. If this all works out, I'm happy to consider naming you as V.P. So if you happen to be right, you could get
the top job at the end of the day.
TRUMP: No — no...[laughter]... I think if it doesn't... [applause] I like that. I like it. I'd consider it. But I think I'll go
back to building buildings if it doesn't work out.
CRUZ: Actually, I'd love to get you to build a wall.
[crosstalk]
TRUMP: I have a feeling it's going to work out, actually.
[crosstalk]
RUBIO: Let me [inaudible]. I was invoked in that question, so let me just say — in that answer — let me say, the real
question here, I hate to interrupt this episode of Court TV. [laughter]
But the real — but I think we have to get back to what this election has to be about. OK? Listen, we — this is the greatest
country in the history of mankind. But in 2008, we elected a president that didn't want to fix America. He wants to change
America. We elected a president that doesn't believe in the Constitution. He undermines it. We elected a president that is
weakening America on the global stage. We elected a president that doesn't believe in the free enterprise system.
This election has to be about reversing all of that damage. That's why I'm running for office because when I become
president of the United States, on my first day in office we are going to repeal every single one of his unconstitutional
executive orders. When I'm president of the United States we are getting rid of Obamacare and we are rebuilding our
military. And when I'm president, we're not just going to have a president that gives a State of the Union and says America
is the greatest country in the world. When I'm president, we're going to have a president that acts like it.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, senator.
Mr. Trump, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley in her response to the State of the Union address...
[applause]...appeared to choose sides within the party, saying Republicans should resist, quote, "the siren call of the
angriest voices". She confirmed, she was referring to you among others. Was she out of line? And, how would a President
Trump unite the party?
TRUMP: Okay. First of all, Nikki this afternoon said I'm a friend of hers. Actually a close friend. And wherever you are
sitting Nikki, I'm a friend. We're friends. That's good. [laughter] But she did say there was anger. And I could say, oh, I'm
not angry. I'm very angry because our country is being run horribly and I will gladly accept the mantle of anger. Our
military is a disaster. [applause]
Our healthcare is a horror show. Obamacare, we're going to repeal it and replace it. We have no borders. Our vets are
being treated horribly. Illegal immigration is beyond belief. Our country is being run by incompetent people. And yes, I
am angry. [applause] And I won't be angry when we fix it, but until we fix it, I'm very, very angry. And I say that to Nikki.
So when Nikki said that, I wasn't offended. She said the truth.
One of your colleagues interviewed me. And said, well, she said you were angry and I said to myself, huh, she's right. I'm
not fighting that. I didn't find it offensive at all. I'm angry because our country is a mess. [applause]
BARTIROMO: But what are you going to do about it?
CAVUTO: Marco Rubio. I'm sorry, it's the time constraints. You and Governor Christie have been exchanging some fairly
nasty words of late, and I will allow the governor to respond as well.
The governor went so far to say, you won't be able to slime your way to the White House. He's referring to a series of ads
done by a PAC, speaking on your behalf, that say quote,"One high tax, Common Core, liberal, energy-loving, Obamacare,
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Medicaid-expanding president is enough. You think you went too far on that and do you want to apologize to the
governor?
RUBIO: You know, as I said already twice in this , we have a very serious problem in this country. [applause] We have a
president of the United States that is undermining this country's security and expanding the role of...
CAVUTO: That is not my question.
RUBIO: Well, I am going to answer your question, Neil. He is — this president is undermining the constitutional basis of
this government. This president is undermining our military. He is undermining our standing in the world. I like Chris
Christie, but we can not afford to have a president of the United States that supports Common Core. [applause]
We can not afford to have a president of the United States that supports gun control. This president, this president is more
interested in funding — less interested in funding the military, than he is in funding planned — he's more interested in
funding Planned Parenthood than he is in funding the military.
Chris Christie wrote a check to Planned Parenthood. All I'm saying is our next president has to be someone that undoes
the damage Barack Obama has done to this country. It can not be someone that agrees with his agenda.
Because the damage he has done to America is extraordinary. Let me tell you, if we don't get this election right, there may
be no turning back for America. We're on the verge of being the first generation of Americans that leave our children
worse off than ourselves.
So I just truly, with all my heart belief, I like everybody on the stage. No one is a socialist. No one here is under FBI
investigation. So we have a good group of people.
CAVUTO: Is he a liberal?
RUBIO: Our next president...
CAVUTO: Is he a liberal?
RUBIO: Unfortunately, Governor Christie has endorsed many of the ideas that Barack Obama supports, whether it is
Common Core or gun control or the appointment of Sonia Sotomayor or the donation he made to Planned Parenthood.
Our next president, and our Republican nominee can not be someone who supports those positions.
CAVUTO: Governor? [applause]
CHRISTIE: I stood on the stage and watched Marco in rather indignantly, look at Governor Bush and say, someone told
you that because we're running for the same office, that criticizing me will get you to that office.
It appears that the same someone who has been whispering in old Marco's ear too. [laughter]
So the indignation that you carry on, some of the stuff, you have to also own then. So let's set the facts straight. First of all,
I didn't support Sonia Sotomayor. Secondly, I never wrote a check to Planned Parenthood.
Third, if you look at my record as governor of New Jersey, I have vetoed a 50-caliber rifle ban. I have vetoed a reduction
this clip size. I vetoed a statewide I.D. system for gun owners and I pardoned, six out-of-state folks who came through our
state and were arrested for owning a gun legally in another state so they never have to face charges.
And on Common Core, Common Core has been eliminated in New Jersey. So listen, this is the difference between being a
governor and a senator. See when you're a senator, what you get to do is just talk and talk and talk. And you talk so much
that nobody can ever keep up with what you're saying is accurate or not.
When you're a governor, you're held accountable for everything you do. And the people of New Jersey, I've seen it.
[applause]
CHRISTIE: And the last piece is this. I like Marco too, and two years ago, he called me a conservative reformer that New
Jersey needed. That was before he was running against me. Now that he is, he's changed his tune.
I'm never going to change my tune. I like Marco Rubio. He's a good guy, a smart guy, and he would be a heck of a lot
better president than Hillary Rodham Clinton would ever be. [applause]
BUSH: Neil, my name was mentioned here. Neil, my name was mentioned as well.
Here's the deal, Chris is totally right. He's been a good governor, and he's a heck of a lot better than his predecessor that
would have bankrupted New Jersey.
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Everybody on this stage is better than Hillary Clinton. And I think the focus ought to be on making sure that we leave this
nomination process, as wild and woolly as it's going to be — this is not being bad.
These attack ads are going to be part of life. Everybody just needs to get used to it. Everybody's record's going to be
scrutinized, and at the end of the day we need to unite behind the winner so we can defeat Hillary Clinton, because she is a
disaster. [applause]
Our country rise up again, but we need to have a compelling conservative agenda that we present to the American people
in a way that doesn't disparage people, that unites us around our common purpose.
And so everybody needs to discount some of the things you're going to hear in these ads, and discount the — the backand-forth here, because every person here is better than Hillary Clinton.
CARSON: Neil, I was mentioned too.
CAVUTO: You were?
CARSON: Yeah, he said everybody. [laughter]
And — and I just want to take this opportunity to say, you know, in the 2012 election, you know, we — and when I say we,
Republicans — tore themselves apart.
You know, we have to stop this because, you know, if we manage to damage ourselves, and we lose the next election, and a
progressive gets in there and they get two or three Supreme Court picks, this nation is over as we know it. And we got to
look at the big picture here.
BARTIROMO: Governor Kasich...[applause]... Governor Kasich, Hillary Clinton is getting some serious competition
from Senator Bernie Sanders. He's now at 41 percent in the latest CBS/New York Times poll. Vice President Biden sang
his praises, saying Bernie is speaking to a yearning that is deep and real, and he has credibility on it.
So what does it say about our country that a candidate who is a self-avowed socialist and who doesn't think a 90 percent
tax rate is too high could be the Democratic nominee?
KASICH: Well, if that's the case, we're going to win every state, if Bernie Sanders is the nominee. That's not even an
issue. But look...[applause]...and I know Bernie, and I can promise you he's not going to be president of the United States.
So here's this — the situation, I think, Maria.
And this is what we have to — I — I've got to tell you, when wages don't rise — and they haven't for a lot of families for a
number of years — it's very, very difficult for them.
Part of the reason why it hasn't risen because sometimes we're not giving people the skills they need. Sometimes it's
because the Federal Reserve kept interest rates so low that the wealthy were able to invest in — in strong assets like the
stock market when everybody else was left behind.
People are upset about it. I'll tell you what else they're upset about: you're 50 or 51 years old, and some kid walks in and
tells you you're out of work, and you don't know where to go and where to turn. Do we have answer for that? We do. There
are ways to retrain the 50 and 51-year-olds, because they've got great value.
I'll tell you what else people are concerned about. Their kids come out of college, they have high debt and they can't get a
good job. We got to do a lot about the high cost of high — higher education, but we've got to make sure we're training
people for jobs that exist, that are good jobs that can pay. [applause]
Let me tell you that, in this country — in this country, people are concerned about their economic future. They're very
concerned about it. And they wonder whether somebody is getting something to — keeping them from getting it.
That's not the America that I've ever known. My father used to say, "Johnny, we never — we don't hate the rich. We just
want to be the rich." And we just got to make sure that every American has the tools, in K-through-12 and in vocational
education, in higher education.
And we got to fight like crazy so people can think the American dream still exists, because it does, with rising wages, with
full employment and with everybody in America — and I mean everybody in America — having an opportunity to realize
the American dream of having a better life than their mother and their father.
I'm president — look, I've done it once. I've done it once in Washington, with great jobs and lower taxes. The economy was
really booming.
And now in Ohio, with the same formula, wages higher than the — than the national average. A growth of 385,000 jobs.
[bell rings]
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It's not that hard. Just know where you want to go, stick to your guts. Get it done, because our — our children and
grandchildren are counting on us to get it done. And, folks, we will. You count on it.
BARTIROMO: Dr. Carson, one of the other candidates on this stage has brought Bill Clinton's past indiscretions. Is that
a legitimate topic in this election? And what do you think of the notion that Hillary Clinton is an enabler of sexual
misconduct?
CARSON: Well, there's not question that we should be able to look at past president whether they're married to
somebody who's running for president or not in terms of their past behavior and what it means. But you know, here's the
real issue, is this America anymore? Do we still have standards? Do we still have values and principles?
You know, you look at what's going on, you see all the divisiveness and the hatred that goes on in our society. You know,
we have a war on virtual everything — race wars, gender wars, income wars, religious wars, age wars. Every war you can
imaging, we have people at each other's throat and our strength is actually in our unity.
You know, you go to the internet, you start reading an article and you go to the comments section — you cannot go five
comments down before people are calling each all manner of names. Where did that spirit come from in America? It did
not come from our Judeo-Christian roots, I can tell you that. And wherever it came from we need to start once again
recognizing that there is such a thing as right and wrong. And let's not let the secular progressives drive that out of us.
The majority of people in American actually have values and principles and they believe in the very things that made
America great. They've been beaten into submission. It's time for us to stand up for what we believe in. [applause]
CAVUTO: Well, we are not done. Coming up, one of the top things people are talking about on Facebook, guns. And you
can join us live us on this stage in the conversation during this commercial break right from home. You can go to
Facebook.com/[inaudible]. We will be streaming live and talking about how we think the is going so far.
We're back in a moment in Charleston, South Carolina.
[commercial break]
BARTIROMO: Welcome back to the Republican presidential debates, right here in North Charleston. Let's get right back
to the questions.
Governor Bush, gun rights, one of the top issues seen on Facebook with close to 3 million people talking about it in the
past month. Right here in Charleston, Dylann Roof, who has been accused of killing nine people in a nearby church,
reportedly had not passed his background check when he got his gun. What is the harm in tightening standards for not
only who buys guns, but those who sell them?
BUSH: First of all, I'd like to recognize Governor Haley for her incredible leadership in the aftermath of the — [applause]
— the Emanuel AME church killings. And I also want to recognize the people in that church that showed the grace of God
and the grace of forgiveness and the mercy that they showed. [applause] I don't know if any of us could have done what
they did, one after another, within 48 hours of that tragedy taking place. Look, here's the deal, in this particular case, the
FBI made a mistake. The law itself requires a background check, but that didn't fulfill their part of the bargain within the
time that they were supposed to do.
We don't need to add new rules, we need to make sure the FBI does its job. Because that person should not have gotten a
gun, should not — would not have passed a background check. The first impulse of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton is
to take rights away from law- abiding citizens.
That's what they do, whether it's the San Bernardino attack or if it's these tragedies that take place, I think we need to
focus on what the bigger issue is. It isn't law-abiding gun owners.
Look, I have an A plus rating in the NRA and we also have a reduction in gun violence because in Florida, if you commit a
crime with a gun, you're going away. You're going away for a long, long while.
And that's what we should focus on is the violence in our communities. Target the efforts for people that are committing
crimes with guns, and if you do that, and get it right, you're going to be much better off than creating a political argument
where there's a big divide.
The other issue is mental health. That's a serious issue that we could work on. Republicans and Democrats alike believe
this. [applause] The president's first impulse is do this by executive order, power he doesn't have. Why not go to Congress
and in a bipartisan way, begin to deal with the process of mental health issues so that people that are spiraling out of
control because of mental health challenges don't have access to guns. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Trump, are there any circumstances that you think we should be limiting gun sales of any kind in America?
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TRUMP: No. I am a 2nd amendment person. If we had guns in California on the other side where the bullets went in the
different direction, you wouldn't have 14 or 15 people dead right now.
If even in Paris, if they had guns on the other side, going in the opposite direction, you wouldn't have 130 people plus
dead. So the answer is no and what Jeb said is absolutely correct.
We have a huge mental health problem in this country. We're closing hospitals, we're closing wards, we're closing so many
because the states want to save money. We have to get back into looking at what's causing it. The guns don't pull the
trigger. It's the people that pull the trigger and we have to find out what is going on. [applause]
We have to protect our 2nd amendment and you cannot do this and certainly what Barack Obama was doing with the
executive order. He doesn't want to get people together, the old-fashioned way, where you get Congress. You get the
Congress, you get the Senate, you get together, you do legislation. He just writes out an executive order. Not supposed to
happen that way. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Thank you sir.
TRUMP: You get the Congress. You get the Senate. You get together. You do legislation. He just writes out an order,
executive order. It's not supposed to happen that way. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. [applause]
CAVUTO: Senator Rubio, you said that President Obama wants to take people's guns away. Yet under his presidency,
gun sales have more than doubled. That doesn't sound like a White House unfriendly to gun owners.
RUBIO: That sounds like people are afraid the president's going to take their guns away. [applause]
Look, the Second Amendment is not an option. It is not a suggestion. It is a constitutional right of every American to be
able to protect themselves and their families. I am convinced that if this president could confiscate every gun in America,
he would. I am convinced that this president, if he could get rid of the Second Amendment, he would. I am convinced
because I see how he works with his attorney general, not to defend the Second Amendment, but to figure out ways to
undermine it.
I have seen him appoint people to our courts not to defend the Second Amendment, but to figure out ways to undermine
it.
Here's my second problem. None of these instances that the president points to as the reason why he's doing these things
would have been preventive. You know why? Because criminals don't buy their guns from a gun show. They don't buy
their guns from a collector. And they don't buy their guns from a gun store. They get — they steal them. They get them on
the black market.
And let me tell you, ISIS and terrorists do not get their guns from a gun show. These...[laughter and applause]... his
answer — you name it. If there's an act of violence in America, his immediate answer before he even knows the facts is gun
control. Here's a fact. We are in a war against ISIS. They are trying to attack us here in America. They attacked us in
Philadelphia last week. They attacked us in San Bernardino two weeks ago. And the last line standing between them and
our families might be us and a gun.
When I'm president of the United States, we are defending the Second Amendment, not undermining it the way Barack
Obama does. [applause]
CAVUTO: But what fact can you point to, Senator — what fact can you point to that the president would take away
everyone's gun? You don't think that's [inaudible]?
RUBIO: About every two weeks, he holds a press conference talking about how he can't wait to restrict people's access to
guns. He has never defended...[crosstalk]...I'll give you a fact. Well, let me tell you this. Do you remember when he ran for
president of the United States, and he was a candidate, and he went and said, "These Americans with traditional values,
they are bitter people, and they cling to their guns and to their religion." That tells you right away where he was headed on
all of this.
This president every chance he has ever gotten has tried to undermine the Second Amendment. [applause]
He doesn't meet — here's the difference. When he meets with the attorney general in the White House, it's not "how can
we protect the Second Amendment rights of Americans." It's "give me options on how I can make it harder for law-abiding
people to buy guns." That will never happen when I am president of the United States. [applause]
CAVUTO: Governor Christie, you, too, have criticized the president's recent executive action on gun control, saying it's
unconstitutional, another step to bypass Congress. But hasn't your own position on guns evolved, sir? The New Jersey
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Star-Ledger reports that you signed several laws to regulate the possession of firearms, and that you argued back in
August 2013, and I quote, "These common sense measures will strengthen New Jersey's already tough gun laws."
So isn't that kind of what the president wants to do now?
CHRISTIE: No, absolutely not. The president wants to do things without working with his Congress, without working
with the legislature, and without getting the consent of the American people. And the fact is that that's not a democracy.
That's a dictatorship. And we need to very, very concerned about that.
See, here's the thing. I don't think the founders put the Second Amendment as number two by accident. I don't think they
dropped all the amendments into a hat and picked them out of a hat. I think they made the Second Amendment the
second amendment because they thought it was just that important.
The fact is in New Jersey, what we have done is to make it easier now to get a conceal and carry permit. We have made it
easier to do that, not harder. And the way we've done it properly through regulatory action, not by signing
unconstitutional executive orders. This guy is a petulant child. That's what he is. I mean, you know...[applause]... the fact
is, Neil, let's think about — let's think about — and I want to maybe — I hope the president is watching tonight, because
here's what I'd like to tell him.
Mr. President, we're not against you. We're against your policies. When you became president, you had a Democratic
Congress and a filibuster-proof Democratic Senate. You had only 21 Republican governors in this country. And now after
seven years of your policies, we have the biggest majority we've had since the 1920s in the House; a Republican majority
in the Senate; and 31 out of 50 Republican governors.
The American people have rejected your agenda and now you're trying to go around it. That's not right. It's not
constitutional. And we are going to kick your rear end out of the White House come this fall. [applause]
BARTIROMO: So what is the answer, Senator Cruz, to stop mass shootings and violent crime, up in 30 cities across the
country?
CRUZ: The answer is simple. Your prosecute criminals. You target the bad guys. You know, a minute ago, Neil asked:
What has President Obama do — done to illustrate that he wants to go after guns?
Well, he appointed Eric Holder as attorney general. Eric Holder said he viewed his mission as brainwashing the American
people against guns. He appointed Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court, someone who has been a radical against the
Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.
He launched Fast and Furious, illegally selling guns to Mexican drug lords that were then used to shoot law enforcement
officials. And I'll tell you what Hillary Clinton has said: Hillary Clinton says she agrees with the dissenters — the Supreme
Court dissenters in the Heller case.
There were four dissenters, and they said that they believe the Second Amendment protects no individual right to keep
and bear arms whatsoever, which means, if their view prevailed and the next president's going to get one, two, three,
maybe four Supreme Court justices, the court will rule that not a single person in this room has any right under the
Second Amendment and the government could confiscate your guns.
And I'll note that California senator — Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein said, if she could say to Mr. America and
Mrs. America, "give me your guns, I'm rounding them up," she would.
And let me make a final point on this. Listen, in any Republican primary, everyone is going to say they support the Second
Amendment. Unless you are clinically insane...[laughter]...that's what you say in a primary. But the voters are savvier
than that. They recognize that people's actions don't always match their words. I've got a proven record fighting to defend
the Second Amendment.
There's a reason Gun Owners of America has endorsed me in this race. There's a reason the NRA gave me their Carter
Knight Freedom Fund award...[bell rings]...and there's a reason, when Barack Obama and Chuck Schumer came after our
right to keep and bear arms, that I led the opposition, along with millions of Americans — we defeated that gun control
legislation.
And I would note the other individuals on this stage were nowhere to be found in that fight.
BARTIROMO: Senator...[applause]... let me follow up and switch gears. Senator Cruz, you suggested Mr. Trump, quote,
"embodies New York values." Could you explain what you mean by that?
CRUZ: You know, I think most people know exactly what New York values are. [laughter]
BARTIROMO: I am from New York. I don't.
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CRUZ: What — what — you're from New York? So you might not. [laughter]
But I promise you, in the state of South Carolina, they do. [applause]
And listen, there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the state of New York. But everyone
understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro- gay-marriage, focus around
money and the media.
And — and I would note indeed, the reason I said that is I was asked — my friend Donald has taken to it as advance
playing Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA", and I was asked what I thought of that.
And I said, "well, if he wanted to play a song, maybe he could play, 'New York, New York'?" And — and — you know, the
concept of New York values is not that complicated to figure out.
Not too many years ago, Donald did a long interview with Tim Russert. And in that interview, he explained his views on a
whole host of issues that were very, very different from the views he's describing now.
And his explanation — he said, "look, I'm from New York, that's what we believe in New York. Those aren't Iowa values,
but this is what we believe in New York." And so that was his explanation.
And — and I guess I can — can frame it another way. Not a lot of conservatives come out of Manhattan. I'm just saying.
[laughter]
BARTIROMO: Are you sure about that?
CAVUTO: Maria...
TRUMP: So conservatives actually do come out of Manhattan, including William F. Buckley and others, just so you
understand. [applause]
And just so — if I could, because he insulted a lot of people. I've had more calls on that statement that Ted made — New
York is a great place. It's got great people, it's got loving people, wonderful people.
When the World Trade Center came down, I saw something that no place on Earth could have handled more beautifully,
more humanely than New York. You had two one hundred...[applause] ...you had two 110-story buildings come crashing
down. I saw them come down. Thousands of people killed, and the cleanup started the next day, and it was the most
horrific cleanup, probably in the history of doing this, and in construction. I was down there, and I've never seen anything
like it.
And the people in New York fought and fought and fought, and we saw more death, and even the smell of death — nobody
understood it. And it was with us for months, the smell, the air.
And we rebuilt downtown Manhattan, and everybody in the world watched and everybody in the world loved New York
and loved New Yorkers. And I have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that Ted made. [applause]
CAVUTO: Governor bush, for the third time in as many months, the Iranians have provoked us, detaining us, as we've
been discussing, with these 10 Navy sailors Tehran had said strayed into their waters. The sailors were released, but only
after shown on video apologizing for the incident. This occurring only weeks after Iran fired multiple rockets within 1,500
yards of a U.S. aircraft carrier and then continued to test medium range missiles.
Now you've claimed that such actions indicate Tehran has little to fear from a President Obama. I wonder, sir, what would
change if they continued doing this sort of thing under a President Jeb Bush?
BUSH: Well, first of all, under President Jeb Bush, we would restore the strength of the military. Last week, Secretary
Carter announced that the Navy's going to be cut again. It's now half the size of what it was prior to Operation Desert
Storm.
The deployments are too high for the military personnel. We don't have procurement being done for refreshing the
equipment. The B-52 is still operational as the long range bomber; it was inaugurated in the age of Harry Truman. The
planes are older than the pilots. We're gutting our military, and so the Iranians and the Chinese and the Russians and
many other countries look at the United States not as serious as we once were.
We have to eliminate the sequester, rebuild our military in a way that makes it clear that we're back in the game.
Secondly, as it relates to Iran, we need to confront their ambitions across the board. We should reimpose sanctions,
they've already violated sanctions after this agreement was signed by testing medium-range missiles.
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Thirdly, we need to move our embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to send a serious signal that we're back in the game
with Israel...[applause]...and sign an agreement that makes sure that the world knows that they will have technological
superiority.
We need to get back in the game as it relates to our Arab nations. The rest of the world is moving away from us towards
other alliances because we are weak. This president and John Kerry and Hillary Clinton all have made it harder for the
next president to act, but he must act to confront the ambitions of Iran. We can get back in the game to restore order and
security for our own country. [applause]
CAVUTO: Thank you, Governor. Governor Kasich, while everyone has been focusing on Iran's provocations, I'm
wondering what you make of what Saudi Arabia has been doing and its recent moves in the region, including its execution
of a well-known Shi'ite cleric and its move to dramatically increase oil production, some say in an effort to drive down oil
prices and force a lot of U.S. oil producers out of business.
Sure enough, oil prices have tumbled. One brokerage house is predicting a third or more of American oil producers and
those heavily invested in fracking will go bankrupt, and soon Saudi Arabia and OPEC will be back in the driver's seat. U.S.
energy player Harold Hamrie similarly told me with friends like these, who needs enemies? Do you agree?
KASICH: Well, let me — let me first of all talk a little bit about my experience. I served on the Defense Committee for 18
years, and by the way, one of the members of that committee was Senator Strom Thurmond from South Carolina. Let em
also tell you...[applause]...that after the 9/11 attacks, Secretary Rumsfeld invited me to the Pentagon with a meeting of the
former secretaries of Defense. And in that meeting, I suggested we had a problem with technology, and that I wanted to
take people from Silicon Valley into the Pentagon to solve our most significant problems. So I not only had the
opportunity to go through the Cold War struggles in Central America, and even after 9/11 to be involved.
With Saudi Arabia and oil production, first of all, it's so critical for us to be energy independent, and we're getting there
because of fracking and we ought to explore because, see, energy independence gives us leverage and flexibility, and
secondly, if you want to bring jobs back to the United States of America in industry, low prices make the difference.
We're seeing it in my state and we'll see it in this country. And that's why we must make sure we continue to frack.
In terms of Saudi Arabia, look, my biggest problem with them is they're funding radical clerics through their madrasses.
That is a bad deal and an evil situation, and presidents have looked the other way. And I was going to tell you, whether I'm
president or not, we better make it clear to the Saudis that we're going to support you, we're in relation with you just like
we were in the first Gulf War, but you've got to knock off the funding and teaching of radical clerics who are the very
people who try to destroy us and will turn around and destroy them. [applause]
So look, in foreign policy — in foreign policy, it's strength, but you've got to be cool. You've got to have a clear vision of
where you want to go. And I'm going to tell you, that it — I'm going to suggest to you here tonight, that you can't do on the
job training.
I've seen so much of it – a Soviet Union, the coming down of a wall, the issues that we saw around the world in Central
America, the potential spread of communism, and 9/11 and Gulf War. You see what the Saudi's — deliver them a strong
message but at the end of the day we have to keep our cool because most of the time they're going right with us. And they
must be part of our coalition to destroy ISIS and I believe we can get that done.
Thank you.
CAVUTO: Thank you John.
BARTIROMO: There's much more ahead including the fight against ISIS. More from Charleston, South Carolina when
we come right back.
[commercial break]
BARTIROMO: We welcome back to the Republican Presidential , right back to the questions.
Candidates, the man who made fighting ISIS the cornerstone of his campaign, South Carolina Senator, Lindsey Graham is
out the race but he joins us tonight in the audience. [applause]
He says, "the air-strike now in their 16th month have been ineffective." Dr. Carson ...
CARSON: Wait a minute, who in their 16th month?
BARTIROMO: The air-strikes.
CARSON: OK.
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BARTIROMO: Now in their 16th month are ineffective. Dr. Carson, do you think Senator Graham is right in wanting to
send 20,000 troops — ground troops to Iraq and Syria to take out ISIS?
CARSON: Well, there's no question that ISIS is a very serious problem, and I don't believe that this administration
recognizes how serious it is.
I think we need to do a lot more than we're doing. Recognize that the caliphate is what gives them the legitimacy to go out
on a jihadist mission, so we need to take that away from them.
The way to take that away from them is to talk to our military officials and ask them, "what do you need in order to
accomplish this goal?"
Our decision is, then, do we give them what we need. I say, yes, not only do we give them what they need, but we don't tie
their hands behind their backs so that they can go ahead and get the job done.
In addition to that...[applause]...in addition to that, we go ahead and we take the oil from them, their source of revenue.
You know, some of these — these engagement rules that the administration has — "we're not going to bomb a tanker that's
coming out of there because there might be a person in it" — give me a break.
Just tell them that, you put people in there, we're going to bomb them. So don't put people in there if you don't want them
bombed. You know, that's so simple. [applause]
And then we need to shut down — we need to shut down their mechanisms of funding and attack their command-andcontrol centers. Why should we let their people be sitting there smoking their cigars, sitting in their comfortable chairs in
Raqqa?
We know to go ahead and shut off the supply routes, and send in our special ops at 2:00 a.m. and attack them everywhere
they go. They should be running all the time, then they won't have time to plan attacks against us. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. Senator Graham has also said that the U.S. will find Arab support for its coalition if it
removes Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. And I quote, "The now king of Saudi Arabia told us, 'you can have our army,
you just got to deal with Assad.'
"The emir of Qatar said, 'I'll pay for the operation, but they are not going to fight ISIS and let Damascus fall into the hands
of the Iranians. Assad has to go.'"
Governor Christie, how important is it to remove Assad from power and how would you do it?
CHRISTIE: Maria, you look at what this president and his secretary of state, Secretary of State Clinton, has done to get
us in this spot. You think about it — this is the president who said, along with his secretary of state — drew a red line in
Syria, said, if Assad uses chemical weapons against his people, that we're going to attack.
He used chemical weapons, he's killed, now, over a quarter of a million of his own people, and this president has done
nothing. In fact, he's done worse than nothing.
This president — and, by the way, Secretary Clinton, who called Assad a reformer — she called Assad a reformer. Now, the
fact is, what this president has done is invited Russia to play an even bigger role, bring in Vladimir Putin to negotiate
getting those chemical weapons back from Assad, yet what do we have today?
We have the Russians and the Iranians working together, not to fight ISIS, but to prop up Assad. The fact of the matter is
we're not going to have peace — we are not going to have peace in Syria. We're not going to be able to rebuild it unless we
put a no-fly zone there, make it safe for those folks so we don't have to be talking about Syrian refugees anymore.
The Syrians should stay in Syria. They shouldn't be going to Europe. And here's the last piece...[applause]...you're not
going to have peace in Syria with Assad in charge. You're simply not. And so Senator Graham is right about this.
And if we want to try to rebuild the coalition, as Governor Kasich was saying before, then what we better do is to get to the
Arab countries that believe that ISIS is a threat, not only to them, but to us and to world peace, and bring them together.
And believe me, Assad is not worth it. And if you're going to leave this to Hillary Clinton, the person who gave us this
foreign policy, the architect of it, and you're going to give her another four years, that's why I'm speaking out as strongly as
I am about that.
Hillary Clinton cannot be president. It will lead to even greater war in this world. And remember this, after Hillary Clinton
and Barack Obama have had nearly 8 years, we have fewer democracies in the world than we had when they started.
That makes the world less peaceful, less safe. In my administration, we will help to make sure we bring people together in
the Middle East, and we will fight ISIS and defeat them.
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BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. [applause]
Mr. Trump — Mr. Trump, your comments about banning Muslims from entering the country created a firestorm.
According to Facebook, it was the most-talked-about moment online of your entire campaign, with more than 10 million
people talking about the issue.
Is there anything you've heard that makes you want to rethink this position?
TRUMP: No. [laughter] No. [applause]
Look, we have to stop with political correctness. We have to get down to creating a country that's not going to have the
kind of problems that we've had with people flying planes into the World Trade Centers, with the — with the shootings in
California, with all the problems all over the world.
I just left Indonesia — bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb.
We have to find out what's going on. I said temporarily. I didn't say permanently. I said temporarily. And I have many
great Muslim friends. And some of them, I will say, not all, have called me and said, "Donald, thank you very much; you're
exposing an unbelievable problem and we have to get to the bottom of it."
And unlike President Obama, where he refuses even to use the term of what's going on, he can't use the term for whatever
reason. And if you can't use the term, you're never going to solve the problem. My Muslim friends, some, said, "thank you
very much; we'll get to the bottom of it."
But we have a serious problem. And we can't be the stupid country any more. We're laughed at all over the world.
[applause]
BUSH: Donald, Donald — can I — I hope you reconsider this, because this policy is a policy that makes it impossible to
build the coalition necessary to take out ISIS. The Kurds are our strongest allies. They're Muslim. You're not going to even
allow them to come to our country?
The other Arab countries have a role to play in this. We cannot be the world's policeman. We can't do this unilaterally. We
have to do this in unison with the Arab world. And sending that signal makes it impossible for us to be serious about
taking out ISIS and restoring democracy in Syria. [applause]
So I hope you'll reconsider. I hope you'll reconsider. The better way of dealing with this — the better way of dealing with
this is recognizing that there are people in, you know, the — Islamic terrorists inside, embedded in refugee populations.
What we ought to do is tighten up our efforts to deal with the entry visa program so that a citizen from Europe, it's harder
if they've been traveling to Syria or traveling to these other places where there is Islamic terrorism, make it harder — make
the screening take place.
We don't have to have refugees come to our country, but all Muslims, seriously? What kind of signal does that send to the
rest of the world that the United States is a serious player in creating peace and security?
CAVUTO: But you said — you said that he made those comments and they represented him being unhinged after he
made them.
BUSH: Yeah, they are unhinged.
CAVUTO: Well — well, after he made them...[applause]...his poll numbers went up eight points in South Carolina. Now
— now, wait...
TRUMP: Eleven points, to be exact.
CAVUTO: Are you — are you saying — are you saying that all those people who agree with Mr. Trump are unhinged?
BUSH: No, not at all, absolutely not. I can see why people are angry and scared, because this president has created a
condition where our national security has weakened dramatically. I totally get that. But we're running for the presidency
of the United States here. This isn't — this isn't, you know, a different kind of job. You have to lead. You cannot make rash
statements and expect the rest of the world to respond as though, well, it's just politics.
Every time we send signals like this, we send a signal of weakness, not strength. And so it was [inaudible] his statement,
which is why I'm asking him to consider changing his views. [applause]
TRUMP: I want security for this country. OK? [applause]
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I want security. I'm tired of seeing what's going on, between the border where the people flow over; people come in; they
live; they shoot. I want security for this country. We have a serious problem with, as you know, with radical Islam. We
have a tremendous problem. It's not only a problem here. It's a problem all over the world.
I want to find out why those two young people — those two horrible young people in California when they shot the 14
people, killed them — people they knew, people that held the wedding reception for them. I want to find out — many
people saw pipe bombs and all sorts of things all over their apartment. Why weren't they vigilant? Why didn't they call?
Why didn't they call the police?
And by the way, the police are the most mistreated people in this country. I will tell you that. [applause]
The most mistreated people. In fact, we need to — wait a minute — we need vigilance. We have to find out — many people
knew about what was going on. Why didn't they turn those two people in so that you wouldn't have had all the death?
There's something going on and it's bad. And I'm saying we have to get to the bottom of it. That's all I'm saying. We need
security.
BARTIROMO: We — we want to hear from all of you on this. According to Pew Research, the U.S. admits more than
100,000 Muslim immigrants every single year on a permanent lifetime basis. I want to ask the rest of you to comment on
this. Do you agree that we should pause Muslim immigration until we get a better handle on our homeland security
situation, as Mr. Trump has said?
Beginning with you, Governor Kasich.
KASICH: I — I've been for pausing on admitting the Syrian refugees. And the reasons why I've done is I don't believe we
have a good process of being able to vet them. But you know, we don't want to put everybody in the same category.
And I'll go back to something that had been mentioned just a few minutes ago. If we're going to have a coalition, we're
going to have to have a coalition not just of people in the western part of the world, our European allies, but we need the
Saudis, we need the Egyptians, we need the Jordanians, we need the Gulf states. We need Jordan.
We need all of them to be part of exactly what the first George Bush put together in the first Gulf War.
[bell rings]
It was a coalition made up of Arabs and Americans and westerners and we're going to need it again. And if we try to put
everybody in the same — call everybody the same thing, we can't do it. And that's just not acceptable.
But I think a pause on Syrian refugees has been exactly right for all the governors that have called for it, and also, of
course, for me as the governor of Ohio.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir, we want to hear from the rest of you,
Governor Christie, your take.
CHRISTIE: Now Maria, listen. I said right from the beginning that we should take no Syrian refugees of any kind. And
the reason I said that is because the FBI director told the American people, told Congress, that he could not guarantee he
could vet them and it would be safe. That's the end of the conversation.
I can tell you, after spending seven years as a former federal prosecutor, right after 9/11, dealing with this issue. Here's the
way you need to deal with it. You can't just ban all Muslims. You have to ban radical Islamic jihadists. You have to ban the
people who are trying to hurt us.
The only way to figure that out is to go back to getting the intelligence community the funding and the tools that it needs
to be able to keep America safe.
[bell rings]
And this summer, we didn't do that. We took it away from the NSA, it was a bad decision by the president. Bad by those in
the Senate who voted for it and if I'm president, we'll make our intelligence community strong, and won't have to keep
everybody out, we're just going to keep the bad folk out and make sure they don't harm us.
BARTIROMO: Senator Rubio, where do you stand?
RUBIO: Well, first of all, let's understand why we are even having this and why Donald tapped in to some of that anger
that's out there about this whole issue. Because this president has consistently underestimated the threat of ISIS.
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If you listen to the State of the Union the other night, he described them as a bunch of guys with long beards on the back
of a pickup truck. They are much more than that. This is a group of people that enslaves women and sells them, sells them
as brides.
This is a group of people that burns people in cages, that is conducting genocide against Christians and Yazidis and others
in the region. This is not some small scale group.
They are radicalizing people in the United States, they are conducting attacks around the world. So you know what needs
to happen, it's a very simple equation, and it's going to happen when I'm president. If we do not know who you are, and
we do not know why you are coming when I am president, you are not getting into the United States of America.
[applause]
BARTIROMO: Senator Cruz, where do you stand? Senator Cruz?
CRUZ: You know I understand why Donald made the comments he did and I understand why Americans are feeling
frustrated and scared and angry when we have a president who refuses to acknowledge the threat we face and even worse,
who acts as an apologist for radical Islamic terrorism.
I think what we need is a commander in chief who is focused like a laser on keeping this country safe and on defeating
radical Islamic terrorism. What should we do? First, we should pass the Expatriate Terrorist Act, legislation I've
introduced that says if an American goes and joins ISIS and wages jihad against America, that you forfeit your citizenship
and you can not come in on a passport. [applause]
And secondly, we should pass the legislation that I've introduced...[bell rings]...that suspends all refugees from nations
that ISIS or Al Qaida controls significant territory. Just last week, we see saw two Iraqi refugees vetted using the same
process the president says will work, that were arrested for being alleged ISIS terrorists.
If I'm elected president, we will not let in refugees from countries controlled by ISIS or Al Qaida. When it comes to ISIS,
we will not weaken them, we will not degrade them, we will utterly and completely destroy ISIS [applause].
BARTIROMO: Dr. Carson, where do you stand? Do you agree with Mr. Trump?
CARSON: Well, first of all, recognize it is a substantial problem. But like all of our problems, there isn't a single one that
can't be solved with common sense if you remove the ego and the politics. And clearly, what we need to do is get a group of
experts together, including people from other countries, some of our friends from Israel, who have had experience
screening these people and come up with new guidelines for immigration, and for visas, for people who are coming into
this country.
That is the thing that obviously makes sense, we can do that. And as far as the Syrians are concerned, Al-Hasakah
province, perfect place. They have infrastructure. All we need to do is protect them, they will be in their own country.
And that is what they told me when I was in Jordan in November. Let's listen to them and let's not listen to our politicians.
BARTIROMO: So, to be clear, the both of you do not agree with Mr. Trump?
BUSH: So, are we going to ban Muslims from India, from Indonesia, from countries that are strong allies — that we need
to build better relationships with? Of course not. What we need to do is destroy ISIS.
I laid out a plan at the Citadel to do just that and it starts with creating a "No Fly Zone" and "Safe Zones" to make sure
refugees are there. We need to lead a force, a Sunni led force inside of Syria. We need to embed with — with the Iraqi
military. We need to arm the Kurds the directly. We need to re-establish the relationships with the Sunnis.
We need the lawyers off the back of the war fighters. That's how you solve the problem. You don't solve it by big talk where
you're banning all Muslims and making it harder for us to build the kind of coalition for us to be successful.
BARTIROMO: Thank you governor.
CAVUTO: Mr. Trump, sometimes maybe in the heat of the campaign, you say things and you have to dial them back. Last
week, the New York Times editorial board quoted as saying that you would oppose, "up to 45 percent tariff on Chinese
goods."
TRUMP: That's wrong. They were wrong. It's the New York Times, they are always wrong.
CAVUTO: Well...
TRUMP: They were wrong.
CAVUTO: You never said because they provided that...
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TRUMP: No, I said, " I would use — " they were asking me what to do about North Korea. China, they don't like to tell us
but they have total control — just about, of North Korea. They can solve the problem of North Korea if they wanted to but
they taunt us.
They say, " well, we don't really have control." Without China, North Korea doesn't even eat. China is ripping us on trade.
They're devaluing their currency and they're killing our companies. Thousands of thousands — you look at the number of
companies and the number in terms of manufacturing of plans that we've lost — 50,000 because of China.
[crosstalk]
CAVUTO: So they've never said to put a tariff on their...
TRUMP: We've lost anywhere between four and seven million jobs because of China. What I said then was, "we have very
unfair trade with China. We're going to have a trade deficit of 505 billion dollars this year with China." A lot of that is
because they devalue their currency.
What I said to the New York Times, is that, "we have great power, economic power over China and if we wanted to use
that and the amount — where the 45 percent comes in, that would be the amount they saw their devaluations that we
should get." That we should get.
What I'm saying is this, I'm saying that we do it but if they don't start treating us fairly and stop devaluing and let their
currency rise so that our companies can compete and we don't lose all of these millions of jobs that we're losing, I would
certainly start taxing goods that come in from China. Who the hell has to lose 505 billion dollars a year?
CAVUTO: I'm sorry, you lost me.
TRUMP: It's not that complicated actually.
CAVUTO: Then I apologize. Then I want to understand, if you don't want a 45 percent tariff, say that wasn't the figure,
would you be open — are you open to slapping a higher tariff on Chinese goods of any sort to go back at them?
TRUMP: OK, just so you understand — I know so much about trading about with China. Carl Icahn today as you know
endorsed. Many businessmen want to endorse me.
CAVUTO: I know...
TRUMP: Carl said, "no, no — " but he's somebody — these are the kind of people that we should use to negotiate and not
the China people that we have who are political hacks who don't know what they're doing and we have problems like this.
If these are the kinds of people — we should use our best and our finest.
Now, on that tariff — here's what I'm saying, China — they send their goods and we don't tax it — they do whatever they
want to do. They do whatever what they do, OK. When we do business with China, they tax us. You don't know it, they tax
us.
I have many friends that deal with China. They can't — when they order the product and when they finally get the product
it is taxed. If you looking at what happened with Boeing and if you look at what happened with so many companies that
deal — so we don't have an equal playing field. I'm saying, absolutely, we don't have to continue to lose 505 billion dollars
as a trade deficit for the privilege of dealing with China.
I'm a free trader. I believe in it but we have to be smart and we have to use smart people to negotiate. I have the largest
bank in the world as a tenant of mine. I sell tens' of millions of [inaudible].
I love China. I love the Chinese people but they laugh themselves, they can't believe how stupid the American leadership
is.
CAVUTO: So you're open to a tariff?
TRUMP: I'm totally open to a tariff. If they don't treat us fairly, hey, their whole trade is tariffed. You can't deal in China
without tariffs. They do it to us, we don't it. It's not fair trade.
KASICH: Neil, Neil — can I say one thing about this. I'm a free trader. I support NAFTA. I believe in the PTT because it's
important those countries in Asia are interfacing against China. And we do need China — Donald's right about North
Korea.
I mean the fact is, is that they need to put the pressure on and frankly we need to intercepts ships coming out of North
Korea so they don't proliferate all these dangerous materials. But what he's touching — talking about, I think has got
merit. And I'll allow putting that tariff or whatever he's saying here...
TRUMP: I'm happy to have him tonight...[laughter]
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KASICH: For too long — no, for too long, what happens is somebody dumps their product in our country and take our
people's jobs, and then we go to an international court and it takes them like a year or two to figure out whether they were
cheating us. And guess what? The worker's out of a job.
So when they — be found against that country that's selling products in here lower than the cost of what it takes to
produce them, then what do we tell the worker? Oh, well, you know, it just didn't work out for you.
I think we should be for free trade but I think fair trade. And when countries violate trade agreements or dump product in
this country, we need — we need to stand up against those countries that do that without making them into an enemy.
And I want to just suggest to you. How do I know this? Because so many people in my family worked in steel mills, and
they didn't work with a white collar, they worked in a blue collar. And the fact is those jobs are critical, they're hard
working members of the middle class and they need to be paid attention to because they're Americans and they carry the
load. So let's demand open trade but fair trade in this country. That's what I think we need to do. [applause]
CAVUTO: All right.
RUBIO: But on this point, if I may add something on this point. We are all frustrated with what China is doing. I think
we need to be very careful with tariffs, and here's why.
China doesn't pay the tariff, the buyer pays the tariff. If you send a tie or a shirt made in China into the United States and
an American goes to buy it at the store and there's a tariff on it, it gets passed on in the price to price to the consumer.
So I think the better approach, the best thing we can do to protect ourselves against China economically is to make our
economy stronger, which means reversing course from all the damage Barack Obama is doing to this economy.
It begins with tax reform. Let's not have the most expensive business tax rate in the world. Let's allow companies to
immediately expense. [applause]
It continues with regulatory reform. Regulations in this country are out of control, especially the Employment Prevention
Agency, the EPA, and all of the rules they continue to impose on our economy and hurting us.
How about Obamacare, a certified job killer? It needs to be repealed and replaced. And we need to bring our debt under
control, make our economy stronger. That is the way to deal with China at the end of the day.
TRUMP: Neil, the problem...
BARTIROMO: We're getting...
TRUMP: ... with what Marco is saying is that it takes too long, they're sucking us dry and it takes too long. It would just
— you absolutely have to get involved with China, they are taking so much of what we have in terms of jobs in terms of
money. We just can't do it any longer.
CAVUTO: He is right. If you put a tariff on a good, it's Americans who pay.
BUSH: Absolutely.
TRUMP: You looking at me?
BUSH: Yeah.
BARTIROMO: Prices go higher for...
TRUMP: Can I tell you what? It will never happen because they'll let their currency go up. They're never going to let it
happen.
Japan, the same thing. They are devaluing — it's so impossible for — you look at Caterpillar Tractor and what's happening
with Caterpillar and Kamatsu. Kamatsu is a tractor company in Japan. Friends of mine are ordering Kamatsu tractors
now because they've de-valued the yen to such an extent that you can't buy a Caterpillar tractor. And we're letting them
get away with it and we can't let them get away with it.
And that's why we have to use Carl and we have to use our great businesspeople and not political hacks to negotiate with
these guys. [applause]
BUSH: Here's — apart from the — apart from the higher prices on consumers and people are living paycheck to
paycheck, apart from that, there will be retaliation.
BARTIROMO: Yeah.
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BUSH: So they soybean sales from Iowa, entire soybean production goes — the equivalent of it goes to China. Or how
about Boeing right here within a mile? Do you think that the Chinese, if they had a 45 percent tariff imposed on all their
imports wouldn't retaliate and start buying Airbus? Of course, they would. This would be devastating for the economy. We
need someone with a steady hand being president of the United States.
BARTIROMO: Real quick, Senator — go ahead, Senator Cruz. [applause]
And then we have to get to tax reform.
TRUMP: And we don't need a weak person being president of the United State, OK? Because that's what we'd get if it
were Jeb — I tell you what, we don't need that.
AUDIENCE: Boo.
TRUMP: We don't need that. That's essentially what we have now, and we don't need that. And that's why we're in the
trouble that we're in now. And by the way, Jeb you mentioned Boeing, take a look. They order planes, they make Boeing
build their plant in China. They don't want them made here. They want those planes made in China.
BUSH: They're a mile away from here.
TRUMP: That's not the way the game is supposed to be played.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Governor Bush. Thank you, Mr. Trump. Very briefly.
BUSH: My name was mentioned. My name was mentioned here. The simple fact is that the plane that's being build here
is being sold to China. You can — if you — you flew in with your 767, didn't you? Right there, right next to the plant.
TRUMP: No, the new planes. I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about in the future they're building massive plants in
China because China does not want Boeing building their planes here, they want them built in China, because China
happens to be smart the way they do it, not the way we do it.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Mr. Trump.
BUSH: When you head back to airport tonight, go check and see what the...
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Mr. Trmup. Thank you, Governor.
TRUMP: I'll check for you.
BUSH: Check it out. [laughter]
BARTIROMO: Senator briefly.
CRUZ: Thanks for coming back to me, Maria. Both Donald and Jeb have good points, and there is a middle ground.
Donald is right that China is running over President Obama like he is a child, President Obama is not protecting American
workers and we are getting hammered.
You know, I sat down with the senior leadership of John Deere. They discussed how — how hard it is to sell tractors in
China, because all the regulatory barriers. They're protectionist.
But Jeb is also right that, if we just impose a tariff, they'll put reciprocal tariffs, which will hurt Iowa farmers and South
Carolina producers and 20 percent of the American jobs that depend on exports.
So the way you do it is you pass a tax plan like the tax plan I've introduced: a simple flat tax, 10 percent for individuals,
and a 16 percent business flat tax, you abolish the IRS...[applause]...and here's the critical point, Maria — the business flat
tax enables us to abolish the corporate income tax, the death tax, the Obamacare taxes, the payroll taxes, and they're
border-adjustable, so every export pays no taxes whatsoever.
It's tax-free — a huge advantage for our farmers and ranchers and manufacturers — and every import pays the 16 percent
business flat tax. It's like a tariff, but here's the difference: if we impose a tariff, China responds.
The business flat tax, they already impose their taxes on us, so there's no reciprocal...[bell rings]...tariffs that come against
us. It puts us on a level, even playing field, which brings jobs here at home...
UNKNOWN: Maria...
CRUZ: ... and as president, I'm going to fight for the working men and women.
[crosstalk]
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BARTIROMO: We've got to get to tax reform, gentlemen. We've got to get to tax reform, and we've got to get to the...
UNKNOWN: Yeah, but I want to talk about taxes.
BARTIROMO: ... we've got to get to the national debt as well. Coming up next, the growing national debt, the war on
crime, tax reform. More from North Charleston, South Carolina, when we come right back.
[commercial break]
BARTIROMO: Welcome back to the Republican presidential here in North Charleston. Right back to the questions.
[applause]
Governor Christie, we have spoken much about cutting spending, given the $19 trillion debt. But according to one report,
America needs $3.6 trillion in infrastructure spending by 2020.
Here in South Carolina, 11 percent of bridges are considered structurally deficient, costing drivers a billion dollars a year
in auto repairs. What is your plan to fix the ailing roads and bridges without breaking the bank?
CHRISTIE: Well, I'm glad you asked that, Maria. Here's — here's our plan. We've all been talking about tax reforms
tonight, and paying for infrastructure is caught right up in tax reform.
If you reform the corporate tax system in this country, which, as was mentioned before, is the highest rate in the world —
and we double tax, as you know.
And what that's led to over $2 trillion of American companies' monies that are being kept offshore, because they don't
want to pay the second tax. And who can blame them? They pay tax once overseas. They don't want to pay 35 percent tax
on the way back.
So beside reforming that tax code, bringing it down to 25 percent and eliminating those special-interest loopholes that the
lobbyists and the lawyers and the accountants have given — bring that rate down to 25 percent, but also, a one-time
repatriation of that money.
Bring the money — the $2 trillion — back to the United States. We'll tax it, that one time, at 8.75 percent, because 35
percent of zero is zero, but 8.75 percent of $2 trillion is a lot of money. And I would then dedicate that money to
rebuilding infrastructure here in this country.
It would not necessitate us raising any taxes. It would bring the money back into the United States to help build jobs by
American companies and get our economy moving again, and growing as a higher rate, and it would rebuild those roads
and bridges and tunnels that you were talking about. And — and — and the last piece of this, Maria, is this. You know, the
fact is that this president has penalized corporations in America. He's penalized — and doesn't understand. In fact, what
that hurts is hurt hardworking taxpayers.
You've seen middle-class wages go backwards $3,700 during the Obama administration. That's wrong for hardworking
taxpayers in this country. We'd rebuild infrastructure that would also create jobs in this country, and we'd work with the
states to do it the right way, to do it more efficiently and more effectively.
And remember this — I'm credible on this for this reason: Americans for Tax Reform says that I've vetoed more tax
increases than any governor in American history. We don't need to raise taxes to get this done.
We need to make the government run smarter and better, and reform this corporate tax system, bring that money back to
the United States to build jobs and rebuild our infrastructure, and we need to use it also to protect our grid from
terrorists.
All of those things are important, and all those things would happen in a Christie administration.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir. Dr. Carson...[applause]...it is true U.S. companies have $2 trillion in cash sitting overseas
right now. That could be used for investment and jobs in America.
Also, several companies right now are pursuing mergers to move their corporate headquarters abroad, and take advantage
of much lower taxes. What will you do to stop the flow of companies building cash away from America, and those leaving
America altogether?
CARSON: Well, I would suggest a fair tax system, and that's what we have proposed. A flat tax for everybody — no
exemptions, no deductions, no shelters, because some people have a better capability of taking advantage of those than
others.
You know, and then the other thing we have to do is stop spending so much money. You know, I — my — my mother
taught me this. You know, she only had a third-grade education, but — you know, she knew how to stretch a dollar.
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I mean, she would drive a car until it wouldn't make a sound, and then gather up all her coins and buy a new car. In fact, if
my mother were secretary of treasury, we would not be in a deficit situation. But...[laughter]... you know, the — the — the
fact of the matter is — you know, if we fix the taxation system, make it absolutely fair, and get rid of the incredible
regulations — because every regulation is a tax, it's a — on goods and services. And it's the most regressive tax there is.
You know, when you go into the store and buy a box of laundry detergent, and the price has up — you know, 50 cents
because of regulations, a poor person notices that. A rich person does not. Middle class may notice it when they get to the
cash register.
And everything is costing more money, and we are killing our — our — our people like this. And Bernie Sanders and
Hillary Clinton will say it's those evil rich people.
It's not the evil rich people. It's the evil government that is — that is putting all these regulations on us so that we can't
survive. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Thank you, sir.
Senator Rubio...
TRUMP: Maria — Maria, what you were talking about just now is called corporate inversion. It's one of the biggest
problems our country has. Right now, corporations, by the thousands, are thinking of leaving our country with the jobs —
leave them behind.
They're leaving because of taxes, but they are also leaving because they can't get their money back and everybody agrees,
Democrats and Republicans, that is should come back in. But they can't get along. They can't even make a deal.
Here is the case, they both agree, they can't make a deal. We have to do something. Corporate inversion is one of the
biggest problems we have. So many companies are going to leave our country.
BARTIROMO: Which is why we raised it.
Senator Rubio?
Thank you, Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: Thank you.
BARTIROMO: One of the biggest fiscal challenges is our entitlement programs, particularly Social Security and
Medicare. What policies will you put forward to make sure these programs are more financially secure?
RUBIO: Well, first let me address the tax issue because it's related to the entitlement issue and I want to thank you for
holding a substantive debates where we can have debates about these key issues on taxes. [applause]
Here is the one thing I'm not going to do. I'm not going to have something that Ted described in his tax plan. It's called the
value added tax. And it's a tax you find in many companies in Europe.
Where basically, businesses now will have to pay a tax, both on the money they make, but they also have to pay taxes on
the money that they pay their employees.
And that's why they have it in Europe, because it is a way to blindfolded the people, that's what Ronald Reagan said.
Ronald Regan opposed the value tax because he said it was a way to blindfold the people, so the true cost of government
was not there there for them.
Now, you can support one now that's very low. But what is to prevent a future liberal president or a liberal Congress from
coming back and not just raising the income tax, but also raising that VAT tax, and that vat tax is really bad for seniors.
Because seniors, if they are retired, are no longer earning an income from a job. And therefore, they don't get the income
tax break, but their prices are going to be higher, because the vat tax is embedded in both the prices that business that are
charging and in the wages they pay their employees.
When I am president of the United States, I'm going to side with Ronald Regan on this and not Nancy Pelosi and we are
not having a vat tax. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Thank you senator.
CRUZ: Maria, I assume that I can respond to that.
BARTIROMO: Senator Cruz, yes. You were meant to. Yes, of course.
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CRUZ: Well, Marco has been floating this attack for a few weeks now, but the problem is, the business flat tax in my
proposal is not a vat. A vat is imposed as a sales tax when you buy a good.
This is a business flat tax. It is imposed on business and a critical piece that Marco seems to be missing is that this 16
percent business flat tax enables us to eliminate the corporate income tax. It goes away. It enables us to eliminate the
death tax.
If you're a farmer, if you're a rancher, if you are small business owner, the death tax is gone. We eliminate the payroll tax,
we eliminate the Obamacare taxes. And listen, there is a real difference between Marco's tax plan and mine.
Mine gives every American a simple, flat tax of 10 percent. Marco's top tax rate is 35 percent. My tax plan enables you to
fill out your taxes on a postcard so we can abolish the IRS. Marco leaves the IRS code in with all of the complexity. We
need to break the Washington cartel, and the only way to do it is to end all the subsidies and all...[bell rings]...the
mandates and have a simple flat tax. The final observation, invoked Ronald Reagan. I would note that Art Laffer, Ronald
Reagan's chief economic adviser, has written publicly, that my simple flat tax is the best tax plan of any of the individuals
on this stage cause it produces economic growth, it raises wages and it helps everyone from the very poorest to the very
richest.
BARTIROMO: Thank you senator. [applause]
RUBIO: But that's not an accurate description of the plan. Because, first of all, you may rename the IRS but you are not
going to abolishes the IRS, because there has to be some agency that's going to collect your vat tax. Someone's going to be
collecting this tax.
In fact, Ronald Reagan's treasury, when Ronald Reagan's treasury looked at the vat tax, you know what they found? That
they were going to have to hire 20,000 new IRS agencies to collect it.
The second point, it does not eliminate the corporate tax or the payroll tax. Businesses will now have to pay 16 percent on
the money they make. They will also have to pay 16 percent on the money they pay their employees.
So there are people watching tonight in business. If you are now hit on a 60 percent tax on both your income and on the
wages you pay your employees, where are you going to get that money from? You're going to get it by paying your
employees less and charging your customers more, that is a tax, the difference is, you don't see it on the bill.
And that's why Ronald Reagan said that it was a blindfold. You blindfold the American people so that they cannot see the
true cost of government. Now 16 percent is what the rate Ted wants it at. But what happens if, God forbid, the next Barack
Obama takes over, and the next Nancy Pelosi, and the next Harry Reid...[bell rings]...and they decide, we're going to raise
it to 30 percent, plus we're going to raise the income tax to 30 percent. Now, you've got Europe.
[crosstalk]
BARTIROMO: Thank you senator. I have to get to a question for Mr. Trump.
CRUZ: Maria...
BARTIROMO: Yes.
CRUZ: Maria, I'd just like to say...[crosstalk]
CHRISTIE: Maria, I'd like to interrupt this on the floor of the Senate to actually answer the question you asked, which
was on entitlements. Do you remember that, everybody? This was a question on entitlements.
And the reason — and the reason...[crosstalk]...no, you already had your chance, Marco, and you blew it. Here's the thing.
[crosstalk] The fact is, the reason why...
RUBIO: If you'll answer the [inaudible] core question.
CHRISTIE: ... the fact is — the fact is the reason why that no one wants to answer entitlements up here is because it's
hard. It's a hard problem. And I'm the only one up on this stage who back in April put forward a detailed entitlement
reform plan that will save over $1 trillion, save Social Security, save Medicare, and avoid this — avoid what Hillary
Rodham Clinton will do to you.
Because what she will do is come in and she will raise Social Security taxes. Bernie Sanders has already said it. And she is
just one or two more poll drops down from even moving further left than she's moved already to get to the left of Bernie
on this.
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We have seniors out there who are scared to death because this Congress — this one that we have right now, just stole
$150 billion from the Social Security retirement fund to give it to the Social Security disability fund. A Republican
Congress did that.
And the fact is it was wrong. And they consorted with Barack Obama to steal from Social Security. We need to reform
Social Security. Mine is the only plan that saves over $1 trillion and that's why I'm answering your question.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Governor. Thank you, Governor. [applause]
CARSON: Can I just add one very quick thing? And I just want to say, you know, last week we released our tax plan. And
multiple reputable journals, including The Wall Street Journal, said ours is the best. Just want to get that out there, just
saying.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Dr. Carson.
Coming up, how would the candidates protect America, and another terror attack, if we were to see it. But first, you can
join us live on stage during the commercial break right from home. Go to facebook.com/foxbusiness. We'll be streaming
live and answering your questions during this break next.
More from South Carolina coming up. Stay with us.
[commercial break]
BARTIROMO: Mr. Trump, your net worth is in the multi-billions of dollars and have an ongoing thriving hotel and real
estate business. Are you planning on putting your assets in a blind trust should you become president? With such vast
wealth, how difficult will it be for you to disentangle yourself from your business and your money and prioritize America's
interest first?
TRUMP: Well, it's an interesting question because I'm very proud of my company. As you too know, I know I built a very
great company. But if I become president, I couldn't care less about my company. It's peanuts.
I want to use that same up here, whatever it may be to make America rich again and to make America great again. I have
Ivanka, and Eric and Don sitting there. Run the company kids, have a good time. I'm going to do it for America.
So I would — I would be willing to do that.
BARTIROMO: So you'll put your assets in a blind trust?
TRUMP: I would put it in a blind trust. Well, I don't know if it's a blind trust if Ivanka, Don and Eric run it. If that's a
blind trust, I don't know. But I would probably have my children run it with my executives and I wouldn't ever be involved
because I wouldn't care about anything but our country, anything.
BARTIROMO: Thank you sir.
TRUMP: Thank you.
CAVUTO: Governor Christie, going back to your U.S. Attorney days, you had been praised by both parties as certainly a
tough law and order guy. So I wonder what you make of recent statistics that showed violent crimes that have been
spiking sometimes by double digit ratings in 30 cities across the country. Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn said, "most
local law enforcement officials feel abandoned by Washington." Former NYC Police Chief Ray Kelly, says that, "police are
being less proactive because they're being overly scrutinized and second guessed and they're afraid of being sued or
thrown in jail."
What would you do as president to address this?
CHRISTIE: Well, first off, let's face it, the FBI director James Comey was a friend of mine who I worked with as U.S.
Attorney of New Jersey. He was the U.S. Attorney in Manhattan. He said, "there's a chill wind blowing through law
enforcement in this country." Here's why, the president of the United States and both his attorney's general, they give the
benefit of the doubt to the criminal, not to the police officers.
That's the truth of the matter and you see it every time with this president. Every time he's got a chance, going all the way
back to — remember that Great Beer Summit he had after he messed up that time. This is a guy who just believes that law
enforcement are the bad guys.
Now, I for seven years was the U.S. Attorney of New Jersey. I worked hard with not only federal agents but with police
officers and here's the problem, sanctuary cities is part of the problem in this country. That's where crime is happening in
these cities where they don't enforce the immigration laws. And this president turns his back — this president doesn't
enforce the marijuana laws in this country because he doesn't agree with them.
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And he allows states to go ahead and do whatever they want on a substance that's illegal. This president allows
lawlessness throughout this country. Here's what I would do Neil, I would appoint an Attorney General and I would have
one very brief conversation with that Attorney General. I'd say, "General, enforce the law against everyone justly, fairly,
and aggressively. Make our streets safe again. Make our police officers proud of what they do but more important than
that, let them know how proud we are of them."
We do that, this country would be safe and secure again not only from criminals but from the terrorist who threaten us as
well. I'm the only person on this stage who's done that and we will get it done as President of the United States.
CAVUTO: Thank you governor.
Governor Kasich, as someone has to deal with controversial police shootings in your own state, what do you make of
Chicago's move recently to sort of retrain police? Maybe make them not so quick to use their guns?
KASICH: Well, I created a task force well over a year ago and the purpose was to bring law enforcement, community
people, clergy and the person that I named as one of the co-chair was a lady by the name of Nina Turner, a former State
Senator, a liberal Democrat. She actually ran against one of my friends and our head of public safety.
And they say down as a group trying to make sure that we can begin to heal some of these problems that we see between
community and police.
And they came back with 23 recommendations. One of them is a statewide use of deadly force. And it is now being put
into place everyplace across the state of Ohio. Secondly, a policy on recruiting and hiring, and then more resources for —
for training.
But let me also tell you, one of the issues has got to be the integration of both community and police. Community has to
understand that that police officer wants to get home at night, and not — not to lose their life. Their family is waiting for
them.
At the same time, law enforcement understands there are people in the community who not only think that the system
doesn't work for them, but works against them.
See, in Ohio, we've had some controversial decisions. But the leaders have come forward to realize that protest is fine, but
violence is wrong. And it has been a remarkable situation in our state. And as president of the United States, it's all about
communication, folks. It's all about getting people to listen to one another's problems.
And when you do that, you will be amazed at how much progress you can make, and how much healing we can have.
Because, folks, at the end of the day, the country needs healed. I've heard a lot of hot rhetoric here tonight, but I've got to
tell you, as somebody that actually passed a budget; that paid down a half-a-trillion dollars of our national debt, you can't
do it alone. You've got to bring people together. You've got to give people hope.
And together, we can solve these problems that hurt us and heal America. And that is what's so critical for our
neighborhoods, our families, our children, and our grandchildren. [applause]
CAVUTO: Thank you, Governor.
BARTIROMO: Senator Rubio? [applause]
Under current law, the U.S. is on track to issue more new permanent immigrants on green cards over the next five years
than the entire population of South Carolina. The CBO says your 2013 immigration bill would have increased green
cardholders by another 10 million over 10 years.
Why are you so interested in opening up borders to foreigners when American workers have a hard enough time finding
work?
RUBIO: Well, first of all, this is an issue that's been debated now for 30 years. And for 30 years, the issue of immigration
has been about someone who's in this country, maybe they're here illegally, but they're looking for a job. This issue is not
about that anymore.
First and foremost, this issue has to be now more than anything else about keeping America safe. And here's why. There is
a radical jihadist group that is manipulating our immigration system. And not just green cards. They're looking — they're
recruiting people that enter this country as doctors and engineers and even fiances. They understand the vulnerabilities
we have on the southern border.
They're looking — they're looking to manipulate our — the visa waiver countries to get people into the United States. So
our number one priority must now become ensuring that ISIS cannot get killers into the United States. So whether it's
green cards or any other form of entry into America, when I'm president if we do not know who you are or why you are
coming, you are not going to get into the United States of America.
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BARTIROMO: So your thinking has changed?
RUBIO: The issue is a dramatically different issue than it was 24 months ago. Twenty-four months ago, 36 months ago,
you did not have a group of radical crazies named ISIS who were burning people in cages and recruiting people to enter
our country legally. They have a sophisticated understanding of our legal immigration system and we now have an
obligation to ensure that they are not able to use that system against us.
The entire system of legal immigration must now be reexamined for security first and foremost, with an eye on ISIS.
Because they're recruiting people to enter this country as engineers, posing as doctors, posing as refugees. We know this
for a fact. They've contacted the trafficking networks in the Western Hemisphere to get people in through the southern
border. And they got a killer in San Bernardino in posing as a fiance.
This issue now has to be about stopping ISIS entering the United States, and when I'm president we will.
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Senator. [applause]
CRUZ: But Maria, radical Islamic terrorism was not invented 24 months ago; 24 months ago, we had Al Qaida. We had
Boko Haram. We had Hamas. We had Hezbollah. We had Iran putting operatives in South America and Central America.
It's the reason why I stood with Jeff Sessions and Steve King and led the fight to stop the Gang of Eight amnesty bill,
because it was clear then, like it's clear now, that border security is national security. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Thank you, Senator.
CRUZ: It is also the case that that Rubio-Schumer amnesty bill, one of the things it did is it expanded Barack Obama's
power to let in Syrian refugees. It enabled him — the president to certify them en masse without mandating meaningful
background checks.
I think that's a mistake. That's why I've been leading the fight to stop it. And I would note the Senate just a few weeks ago
voted to suspend refugees from Middle Eastern countries. I voted yes to suspend that. Marco voted on the other side. So
you don't get to say we need to secure the borders, and at the same time try to give Barack Obama more authority to allow
Middle Eastern refugees coming in, when the head of the FBI tells us they cannot vet them to determine if they are ISIS
terrorists.
RUBIO: Maria, let me clear something up here. This is an interesting point when you talk about immigration. Ted Cruz,
you used to say you supported doubling the number of green cards, now you say that you're against it. You used to support
a 500 percent increase in the number of guest workers, now you say that you're against it. You used to support legalizing
people that were here illegally, now you say you're against it. You used to say that you were in favor of birthright
citizenship, now you say that you are against it.
And by the way, it's not just on immigration, you used to support TPA, now you say you're against it. I saw you on the
Senate floor flip your vote on crop insurance because they told you it would help you in Iowa, and last week, we all saw
you flip your vote on ethanol in Iowa for the same reason. [applause]
That is not consistent conservatism, that is political calculation. When I am president, I will work consistently every single
day to keep this country safe, not call Edward Snowden, as you did, a great public servant. Edward Snowden is a traitor.
And if I am president and we get our hands on him, he is standing trial for treason. [applause]
And one more point, one more point. Every single time that there has been a Defense bill in the Senate, three people team
up to vote against it. Bernie Sanders, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. In fact, the only budget you have ever voted for, Ted, in
your entire time in the Senate is a budget from Rand Paul that brags about how it cuts defense.
Here's the bottom line, and I'll close with this. If I'm president of the United States and Congress tries to cut the military, I
will veto that in a millisecond. [applause]
BUSH: There's — look, there's —
CAVUTO: Gentlemen, gentlemen —
CRUZ: I'm going to get a response to that, Neil. There's no way he launches 11 attack —
CAVUTO: Very quick, very quick.
CRUZ: I'm going to — he had no fewer than 11 attacks there. I appreciate your dumping your [inaudible] research folder
on the stage.
RUBIO: No, it's your record.
CRUZ: But I will say —
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CAVUTO: Do you think they like each other?
CRUZ: — at least half of the things Marco said are flat-out false. They're absolutely false.
AUDIENCE: Boo.
CRUZ: So let's start — let's start with immigration. Let's start with immigration and have a little bit of clarity. Marco
stood with Chuck Schumer and Barack Obama on amnesty. I stood with Jeff Sessions and Steve King. Marco stood today,
standing on this stage Marco supports legalization and citizenship for 12 million illegals. I opposed and oppose
legalization and citizenship.
And by the way, the attack he keeps throwing out on the military budget, Marco knows full well I voted for his amendment
to increase military spending to $697 billion. What he said, and he said it in the last, it's simply not true. And as president,
I will rebuild the military and keep this country safe.
CAVUTO: All right, gentlemen, we've got to stop. I know you are very passionate about that. [applause]
Governor Bush, fears have gripped this country obviously, and you touched on it earlier since the San Bernardino attacks.
Since our last , the national conversation has changed, according to Facebook data as well.
Now this first graphic shows the issues that were most talked about right before those attacks and now after: the issues of
Islam, homeland security and ISIS now loom very large. The FBI says Islamic radicals are using social media to
communicate and that it needs better access to communication. Now the CEO of Apple, Governor, Tim Cook said unless
served with a warrant private communication is private, period. Do you agree, or would you try to convince him
otherwise?
BUSH: I would try to convince him otherwise, but this last back and forth between two senators — back bench senators,
you know, explains why we have the mess in Washington, D.C. We need a president that will fix our immigration laws and
stick with it, not bend with the wind.
The simple fact is one of the ways, Maria, to solve the problem you described is narrow the number of people coming by
family petitioning to what every other country has so that we have the best and the brightest that come to our country. We
need to control the border, we need to do all of this in a comprehensive way, not just going back and forth and talking
about stuff —
CAVUTO: Would you answer this question?
BUSH: Oh, I'll talk about that, too. But you haven't asked me a question in a while, Neil, so I thought I'd get that off my
chest if you don't mind. [laughter]
CAVUTO: Fair enough. So Tim Cook — so Tim Cook says he's going to keep it private.
BUSH: I got that. And the problem today is there's no confidence in Washington, D.C. There needs to be more than one
meeting, there needs to complete dialogue with the large technology companies. They understand that there's a national
security risk. We ought to give them a little bit of a liability release so that they share data amongst themselves and share
data with the federal government, they're not fearful of a lawsuit.
We need to make sure that we keep the country safe. This is the first priority. The cybersecurity challenges that we face,
this administration failed us completely, completely. Not just the hacking of OPM, but that is — that is just shameful. 23
million files in the hands of the Chinese? So it's not just the government — the private sector companies, it's also our own
government that needs to raise the level of our game.
We should put the NSA in charge of the civilian side of this as well. That expertise needs to spread all across the
government and there needs to be much more cooperation with our private sector.
CAVUTO: But if Tim cook is telling you no, Mr. President.
BUSH: You've got to keep asking. You've got to keep asking because this is a hugely important issue. If you can encrypt
messages, ISIS can, over these platforms, and we have no ability to have a cooperative relationship —
CAVUTO: Do you ask or do you order?
BUSH: Well, if the law would change, yeah. But I think there has to be recognition that if we — if we are too punitive,
then you'll go to other — other technology companies outside the United States. And what we want to do is to control this.
We also want to dominate this from a commercial side. So there's a lot of balanced interests. But the president leads in
this regard. That's what we need. We need leadership, someone who has a backbone and sticks with things, rather than
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just talks about them as though anything matters when you're talking about amendments that don't even actually are part
of a bill that ever passed.
CAVUTO: Governor, thank you. [applause]
BARTIROMO: When we come right back, closing statements. Stay with us.
[commercial break]
BARTIROMO: Welcome back.
Candidates, it is time for your closing statements. You get 60 seconds each.
Governor John Kasich, we begin with you.
KASICH: You know, in our country, there are a lot of people who feel as though they just don't have the power. You
know, they feel like if they don't have a lobbyist, if they're not wealthy, that somehow they don't get to play.
But all of my career, you know, having been raised in — by a mailman father whose father was a coal miner, who died of
black lung and was losing his eyesight; or a mother whose mother could barely speak English. You see, all of my career,
I've fought about giving voice to the people that I grew up with and voice to the people that elected me.
Whether it's welfare reform and getting something back for the hard-earned taxpayers; whether it's engaging in Pentagon
reform and taking on the big contractors that were charging thousands of dollars for hammers and screw drivers and
ripping us off; or whether it's taking on the special interests in the nursing home industry in Ohio, so that mom and dad
can have the ability to stay in their own home, rather than being forced into a nursing home.
Look, that's who I stand up for. That's who's in my mind...[bell rings]...And if you really want to believe that you can get
your voice back, I will tell you, as I have all my career, I will continue to fight for you, because you're the ones that built
this country, and will carry it into the future. Thank you. [applause]
CAVUTO: Governor Bush?
BUSH: Who can you count on to keep us safer, stronger and freer? Results count, and as governor, I pushed Florida up to
the top in terms of jobs, income and small business growth.
Detailed plans count, and I believe that the plan I've laid out to destroy ISIS before the tragedies of San Bernardino and
Paris are the right ones.
Credibility counts. There'll be people here that will talk about what they're going to do. I've done it. I ask for your support
to build, together, a safer and stronger America. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Governor Chris Christie?
CHRISTIE: Maria, Neil, thank you for a great tonight.
When I think about the folks who are out there at home tonight watching, and I think about what they had to watch this
week — the spectacle they had to watch on the floor of the House of Representatives, with the president of the United
States, who talked a fantasy land about the way they're feeling.
They know that this country is not respected around the world anymore. They know that this country is pushing the
middle class, the hardworking taxpayers, backwards, and they saw a president who doesn't understand their pain, and
doesn't have any plan for getting away from it.
I love this country. It's the most exceptional country the world has ever known. We need someone to fight for the people.
We need a fighter for this country again.
I've lived my whole life fighting — fighting for things that I believe in, fighting for justice and to protect people from crime
and terrorism, fighting to stand up for folks who have not had enough and need an opportunity to get more, and to stand
up and fight against the special interests.
But here's the best way that we're going to make America much more exceptional: it is to make sure we put someone on
that stage in September who will fight Hillary Clinton and make sure she never, ever gets in the White House again.
I am the man who can bring us together to do that, and I ask for your vote. [applause]
CAVUTO: Dr. Ben Carson?
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CARSON: You know, in recent travels around this country, I've encountered so many Americans who are discouraged
and angry as they watch our freedom, our security and the American dream slipping away under an unresponsive
government that is populated by bureaucrats and special interest groups.
We're not going to solve this problem with traditional politics. The only way we're going to solve this problem is with we,
the people. And I ask you to join me in truth and honesty and integrity. Bencarson.com — we will heal, inspire and revive
America for our children. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Senator Marco Rubio?
RUBIO: You know, 200 years ago, America was founded on this powerful principle that our rights don't come from
government. Our rights come from God.
That's why we embraced free enterprise, and it made us the most prosperous people in the history of the world. That's
why we embraced individual liberty, and we became the freest people ever, and the result was the American miracle.
But now as I travel the country, people say what I feel. This country is changing. It feels different. We feel like we're being
left behind and left out.
And the reason is simple: because in 2008, we elected as president someone who wasn't interested in fixing America. We
elected someone as president who wants to change America, who wants to make it more like the rest of the world.
And so he undermines the Constitution, and he undermines free enterprise by expanding government, and he betrays our
allies and cuts deals with our enemies and guts our military. And that's why 2016 is a turning point in our history. If we
elect Hillary Clinton, the next four years will be worse than the last eight, and our children will be the first Americans ever
to inherit a diminished country.
But if we elect the right person — if you elect me — we will turn this country around, we will reclaim the American dream
and this nation will be stronger and greater than it has ever been. [applause]
CAVUTO: Senator Ted Cruz?
CRUZ: "13 Hours" — tomorrow morning, a new movie will debut about the incredible bravery of the men fighting for
their lives in Benghazi and the politicians that abandoned them. I want to speak to all our fighting men and women.
I want to speak to all the moms and dads whose sons and daughters are fighting for this country, and the incredible sense
of betrayal when you have a commander-in-chief who will not even speak the name of our enemy, radical Islamic
terrorism, when you have a commander-in- chief who sends $150 billion to the Ayatollah Khamenei, who's responsible for
murdering hundreds of our servicemen and women.
I want to speak to all of those maddened by political correctness, where Hillary Clinton apologizes for saying all lives
matter. This will end. It will end on January 2017.
And if I am elected president, to every soldier and sailor and airman and marine, and to every police officer and firefighter
and first responder who risk their lives to keep us safe, I will have your back. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Mr. Donald Trump?
TRUMP: I stood yesterday with 75 construction workers. They're tough, they're strong, they're great people. Half of them
had tears pouring down their face. They were watching the humiliation of our young ten sailors, sitting on the floor with
their knees in a begging position, their hands up.
And Iranian wise guys having guns to their heads. It was a terrible sight. A terrible sight. And the only reason we got them
back is because we owed them with a stupid deal, $150 billion. If I'm president, there won't be stupid deals anymore.
We will make America great again. We will win on everything we do. Thank you. [applause]
BARTIROMO: Candidates, thank you.
CAVUTO: Gentlemen, thank you all. All of you. That wraps up our debate. We went a little bit over here. But we wanted
to make sure everyone was able to say their due. He's upset. All right. Thank you for joining us. Much more to come in the
Spin Room ahead.
NOTE: The criteria for appearing in the main debate is explained as, "Candidates must either: 1) Place in the top six nationally, based on an
average of the five most recent national polls recognized by FOX News; OR 2) Place in the top five in Iowa, based on an average of the five
most recent Iowa state polls recognized by FOX News; OR 3) Place in the top five in New Hampshire, based on an average of the five most
recent New Hampshire state polls recognized by FOX News."
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Citation: Presidential Candidates Debates: "Republican Candidates Debate in North Charleston, South Carolina," January 14, 2016. Online by
Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=111395.
Home
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© 1999-2017 - Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley - The American Presidency Project
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 8
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 9
CNN.com - Transcripts
Page 1 of 34
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Exclusive Interview with Donald Trump. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 9, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY
MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST, OUTFRONT: Thanks so much for watching live from Miami. We will
be back here tomorrow night. AC 360 starts now.
[20:00:24] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening from Miami- Dade College. We are
now just an hour away from tonight's Univision Democratic debate seen right here on CNN. Bernie
Sanders and Hillary Clinton are going to take the stage shortly. She, of course, coming off a win in
Mississippi, which was expected. What wasn't expected was his win in Michigan. There is no
overstatement to call it a shocker especially considering he was down by about 20 points in the polls
going in. So what happens on the debate stage behind me tonight has taken on a completely new level of
importance in a race that's gone to a new level.
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BREAKING NEWS
First though, the Republicans who are going to be taking part in tomorrow's CNN
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show livedebate at a nearby
he madeHome
headlines. He said that he expects a softer tone tomorrow night at the debate. However, he is
still calling his leading rival lying Ted. We will bring you the interview in depth right after Sara Murray
sets the Republican stage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was watching the news in one of the rooms,
and every single advertisement was about me. And it was during my tournament. I'm turning my
tournament. I go from tournament to horrible land. Every -- the most vicious.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (voice-over): In the face of an onslaught of attacks,
Donald Trump is triumphing, notching three more victims Tuesday night and nudging the party to rally
behind him.
TRUMP: The bottom line is we have something going that's so good. We should grab each other and we
should unify the party and nobody is going to beat us, OK.
MURRAY: The billionaire businessman celebrating with a surreal election night event, responding to a
drum beat of criticism about his failed ventures with an evening designed to showcase Trump branded
products.
TRUMP: And we have Trump steaks. And by the way, if you want to take one, we'll charge you about
what, 50 bucks a steak, Donald. MURRAY: According to news reports, Sharper Image no longer sells
Trump steaks.
TRUMP: You'll love Trump steaks.
MURRAY: And Busch brothers provides steaks to Trump hotels and golf clubs. So it's unclear where the
slab of meat Trump touted came from.
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BREAKING NEWS
Now reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the two-man race, Ted Cruz
NCAAthat the fight for the nomination is looking more like a selection show live isn't letting up.
Home
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't have any steaks to sell you. I don't have
any wine. I don't have any cleaning products.
MURRAY: The Texas senator emerging with a victory in Idaho Tuesday and today getting another boos
with an endorsement from former presidential hopeful Carly Fiorina.
CRUZ: Carly's being with us today is just one more manifestation of what we have been seeing playing
out over the last several weeks, which is Republicans uniting, coming together behind our campaign.
MURRAY: But for Marco Rubio, a brutal night. Another winless evening and even steeper odds as he
pins all his hopes on Florida.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You believed in me once. I am asking you
to believe again. We can win this election, and we will. I need your help next Tuesday because we are
not just going to win the Florida primary. We are going to win Florida in November.
MURRAY: Today John Kasich is still holding on. Outperforming Rubio last night and fighting for
victory in his home state of Ohio next Tuesday.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And with those states that have not yet
selected a delegate, basically, the three, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz and I, are dead even going into the last
half of this whole match. So don't be thinking it's over yet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Sara Murray joins us from the University of Miami which is the site of tomorrow night's CNN
Republican debate.
What can we expect from the GOP candidates at that debate?
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MURRAY: Well, Anderson, there is no doubt that Ted Cruz wants to turn this into a two-man race with
BREAKING NEWS
Donald Trump. But as Donald Trump said to you, he want kinder, softer, gentler
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch thea selection show live debate and I think tha
Home
stage where they were comparing hand size among other things.
And I think for Marco Rubio and for John Kasich, the stakes could not be higher. These two candidates
need to prove to voters that casting a ballot for them is not a waste. Both of their states coming up March
15th. And it is pretty much do or die for both candidates, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Sara Murray, thanks very much.
And the debate is one of the things I talked to Donald Trump about today.
Coming up right now, the wide-ranging conversation with Trump. How he sizes up his competition. His
thoughts heading into tomorrow night and next week's winner take all Florida primary. I pressed him on
specifics on his promise to reverse what he sees as this country's weaken position in the world as well as
his evolving positions so it says on fighting terrorism that some military and legal analysts say could
amount to war crimes. We spoke earlier today at his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Huge night last night. Do you have any idea that you were going to win as big as you did?
[20:05:02] TRUMP: Well, I felt good. I mean, Mississippi, I was in three or four times and it was like a
love fest. And so, I felt very good about it. Michigan has been great. It has been great for me for a long
time. I have so many friends there. I had no idea it would be that big.
COOPER: Do you think it's the message on trade in particular in Michigan that was effective? Sanders
winning as well there. You have a very similar message.
TRUMP: I think they want strength. I think they want military. I think they want to take care of vets. I
think they hate Obamacare. But I would say ultimately it's about jobs and the economy. And you know,
Michigan has been stripped. You look at those empty factories all over the place. And nobody hits that's
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message better than me. I'm going to take care of it. I'm going to stop it. I'm going to stop the craziness
BREAKING NEWS
that is going on. If you look at what's happening, how -- even today, I mean, we're
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live just shipping company
stopped.Home
COOPER: Two new polls out today. Quinnipiac, also a CNN one both showing essentially the same
thing. You are way ahead here in Florida. Almost I think 2-1 against Rubio. And even in Ohio leading
Kasich with six points and seven points in each poll. If you win Florida and Ohio, is it over?
TRUMP: I think so. I think if I win those two, I think it's over. I thought Kasich said after Michigan he
was going to drop out, to be honest with you. He was saying that he will win Michigan, he will win it
easily. And he -COOPER: He is now saying Ohio. If he doesn't win Ohio -- TRUMP: And I was saying Ohio. But no, he
said Michigan. He was
said, you know, it's his neighbor. And he said he is going to win Michigan, and he was pretty confident
of Michigan. And I thought he said he was going to drop out if he lost Michigan. I guess he's not going t
do that. So I think we are going to do very well in Ohio. I know Ohio very well. I have many, many
friends.
COOPER: You think you'll win there?
TRUMP: Well, even Paul O'Neill of the Yankees endorsed me. He is from Ohio. Great guy. And he
endorsed me last night at the press conference. I think I'll win Ohio, yes. And I think - I mean, we just
have better policies. The country is sick and tired of what they are seeing. The country is sick and tired o
these politicians that's talk and to all talk, no action. And they are all tired of it, Anderson.
COOPER: So if Kasich drops - if you win Ohio, Kasich drops out and out you win Florida and Rubio is
gone and it's just you and Cruz, if you don't get all of the delegates needed to win by the convention -TRUMP: Well, I think if I win Ohio and if I win Florida, pretty much, you're going to be pretty much
assured of doing that.
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BREAKING NEWS
COOPER: You think you'll get all the delegates?
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
TRUMP: I think so, yes. I really think so. I don't see the convention going that route. I see probably
getting the delegates. You know, it is like the fighters. That's the ultimate way of doing it. You knock
them out. If you knock them out, nothing can happen.
COOPER: You want to go for knockout?
TRUMP: I would rather go for a knockout.
COOPER: If you get to the convention, though, and you don't have the delegates, is any kind of a deal
acceptable to you other than you getting the nomination?
TRUMP: Well, then you have to fight it out. But, you know, it is really unfair. Let's say you get there an
are a few short but you have 1200, let's say, and somebody else had 500 or 600. Because I'm way ahead
and in all fairness to Ted, he is the only one who beats me, but he doesn't say I beat him two or three
times for every time he wins one. And we won the important ones. We won the big ones and we won las
night. I mean, last night was a romp.
So, look. Ted, the problem with Ted is he walks in with the viable, hauls up the viable. You know, I call
him lying Ted.
COOPER: I have heard that.
TRUMP: Puts down the bible and then he lies. I have never seen a man lie this much. But even --.
COOPER: You think for a guy who says he is very religious, you are surprise?
TRUMP: No, Ted. I call him lying Ted. He is lying Ted. And you know, that's his name. And I think
frankly that name has stuck because the evangelicals are on my side. They don't like liars. Evangelicals
do not like liars.
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COOPER: So if it goes to convention, you don't have -- you are a couple short or couple hundred short,
BREAKING NEWS
for you, that doesn't matter. It's got to be you as the nominee? No other deal is acceptable?
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
TRUMP: I think this. If you go to the convention and because of some artificial number that they said, if
you go to the convention and you are leading by a lot of delegates, I think you should get the nomination
And that will be me. I'll have far more delegates. Now, whether I get to that artificial number, I don't
know, but I think I will.
COOPER: You've had a lot of money thrown against you in just these last couple of weeks.
TRUMP: This never been anything like it.
COOPER: This whole never Trump movement, is it dead do you think?
TRUMP: Well, I think it's mortally wounded. I do think it is mortally wounded. Marco had a very rough
night. He had no delegates. He got nothing. And that was a very, very bad night. And, you know, when
people have hit me, if you watch, and it's been the story of my life, (INAUDIBLE), but everybody that's
hit me has gone down. They all came at me. Perry came at me. I can go through Lindsey Graham came a
me. Bush came at me. Every one of them came at me. And every one of them that's come at me has gone
down. And wouldn't it be nice to have that happen with our country where we can very simply win
again?
COOPER: So what do you think was Rubio's demise?
TRUMP: I think he tried to be Don Rickles, frankly. He wanted to be Don Rickles and he's not Don
Rickles. And it took me by surprise. I mean, I'm standing at one of the debates and all of a sudden, he go
nasty. He was very nasty.
[20:10:05] COOPER: Did he get under your skin?
TRUMP: No, he didn't. Nobody gets under my skin. I mean, you have to handle it. But he was really
rude. And, in fact, for a while, I wasn't even sure if what I was seeing was right. Then he had a horrible
debate with Chris Christie where he folded. I mean, he totally choked. And you know the expression.
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Once a choker, always a choker.
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
off his message?
TRUMP: I think so. He wasn't only joking. I mean, he was insulting and, you know, made up insults, a
nasty insults. COOPER: And it weakened him do you think in a long term?
TRUMP: It turned out to. I didn't know it would. I mean, I think I hit him very hard. I probably hit him
much harder. But maybe for me it's more natural. It wasn't natural for him. And took him off his game.
Amazing, I've never seen anything like it. And he went from being, you know, from doing pretty good to
now he is at the bottom of the pack.
COOPER: I want to ask you about Cruz in a minute. But just in a big picture, have you given much
thought to how you want to define the GOP? I mean, you will be not only the nominee, you will be
standard bearer for the Republican Party. How do you want to redefine the GOP?
TRUMP: OK. Well, I think the biggest story in all of politics, all over the world right now -- I've been on
the cover of "Time" magazine four times in the last short number of months - I mean, because of what's
happening. There's a movement. And it's millions and millions of people that are disgusted with the
incompetence of our politicians and our leaders, if you want to call them that. I don't even call them that.
I hate to use it.
COOPER: Republicans and Democrats?
TRUMP: Republicans and Democrats. And I'll get to the Republicans in a second because they are
blown a great opportunity. So you have primaries. And millions of people more are going to the
primaries and voting. And in all fairness, it's because of me. I'm not going to joke. It's not because of Ted
Cruz who nobody cares about. Millions of people are going to the polls. More people than did four years
ago and did ever. By the way, ever. You report on it. Millions of people, it's the biggest story. And
people come up to me, Mr. Trump, when I'm signing autographs or shaking hands. Mr. Trump, 50 years
old, 60 years old, I've never voted before, but I'm so proud to be voting.
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COOPER: So you want a more populist GOP?
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
they sayHome -- Jeb Bush used to say he is not a conservative, OK. He is not a conservative. I say,
he is not
what difference does it make? I mean, who cares? I have very conservative views. But one view that
probably isn't considered conservative, but is it smart trade. I want smart trade.
COOPER: Your position is actually similar to Bernie Sanders in some way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: His response to that and to critics who say he's destroying the GOP brand and perhaps even
the party itself.
Plus, he talks about his victory speech which as you saw in Sara Murray's report, turned into sort of
infomercial for all things Trump. Some of which are not actually products still sold by Trump. That and
more as we count down to the Democratic debate at the top of the hour and after hour the debate analysis
later tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:56] COOPER: As we count down to the Univision Democratic debate which you can watch right
here on CNN tonight and tomorrow's CNN Republican debate, not far from here.
More with my conversation with the front-runner of the Republican Party, Donald Trump. In part two,
his trade plan and his answers to critics who say it will boost prices of the things that Americans buy.
Also his answers, the comparison I grove between him and Bernie Sanders.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Your position is actually similar to Bernie Sanders in some way. I mean, you are both -TRUMP: Except I can do something about it. The difference between Sanders and I, I watched him
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recently. And he is right about one thing. The world is ripping us off on trade. It has been a horrible
thing. reveals 68-team horrible experiment. I have the selection show live
NCAA It has been horrible, tournament field. Watchbeen against it for years. You know, if you look
BREAKING NEWS
like 15, Home ago. And I was saying the same thing, a little bit different nations like Japan who is
17 years
really ripping us off.
COOPER: But your position is pretty un-Republican. I mean, Larry Kudlow who, you know, is positive
about your corporate tax policy, he's critical of you on trade. He says that essentially it's going to be
raising prices for people on consumer goods, on electronics, on cars and other items. And it's essentially
a tax on people who can't afford it.
TRUMP: No, I have heard Larry. And let me tell you what's going to happen from a practical standpoint
from a negotiating standpoint. The world is ripping us off because of manipulation, monetary
manipulation, devaluations, OK. They are great. The greatest player of them all is China. Nobody has
ever played the valuation game with their currency better. It's currency devaluation, than China. China is
a grand master. Japan is doing very well. But some of these countries are just absolute masters at it.
When we start getting tough, and they think that we're serious, and I'm totally serious. I would put a tax
on it in two seconds.
COOPER: You talk about a 45 percent tax -TRUMP: I've talked about different taxes. I have also said - I didn't say I was going to put. I said use it a
a negotiating tool, and I would if we couldn't make the right deal.
COOPER: But that would raise prices for consumer goods. TRUMP: China just devalued their currency
recently more than they
have at any time in more than two decades. This was like shocking. And the only reason they did it is
because we're weak and have no leadership. It makes it impossible for our companies to compete with
Chinese companies and China generally, OK. It makes it absolutely impossible. The threat of me doing
this, for instance, the threat of doing it against Japan or China, tell Japan, by the way, when your cars
come in you are going to have to pay a 35 percent tax. I sued 35 percent. I only used 45 if somebody is
really egregious and, of course, now you have many people that are really egregious.
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BREAKING NEWS
COOPER: So 68-team tournament field. Watch the
NCAA revealsyou are seeing this as a negotiation tactic? selection show live
Home
TRUMP: Absolutely. And you know what is going to happen? When they see that we are not playing
games, that we are really do because I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love to do it. When they see
that we are not playing games, they are going to stop playing with their currencies and they are going to
stop taking our jobs to the extent that they are taking them right now.
COOPER: You do worry a lot of people, obviously, in the Republican establishment, though. You know
this better than anybody and I know you don't like the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll. Anew one just
came out today and saying the majority of the American voters, six in ten, saying you are harming the
GOP's image. Two-thirds have a negative impression of you. How do you go about bringing the GOP
back together?
[20:20:06] TRUMP: Look, first of all, millions of people now are voting more as we just said, more than
they were four year ago, eight years ago, 16 years ago. Millions and millions of people. They would
never see anything like it. I was in South Carolina and a woman came up who was at the polling. She
said, you know, Mr. Trump, I've done this for 24 years. I've never seen anything like it.
COOPER: There's a lot of higher voter turnouts. So you are saying that's bringing new people in and -TRUMP: But many more people are coming in. You know where they're coming from? They are
Democrats and they are independents and they are people that never voted before. And don't kid
yourself. The people that never voted before, that's a huge part of it. They are coming in in tremendous
numbers.
So many people have told me that, Anderson. They said I have never voted before. I mean, these are
people that are 60 years old. I'm not talking about somebody that's 18. They never voted before and they
are coming in. And I have had hundreds of people telling me that just walking down the line shaking
hands.
COOPER: So when Lindsey Graham said choosing between you and Cruz would be like choosing
between being shot or poisoned. He is now saying that he will go for Cruz.
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BREAKING NEWS
TRUMP: Yes, 68-team Look. Let me field. Watch the hard on him. He was very nasty. They were
NCAA reveals that is OK. tournament explain. I was very selection show live
percent. Home the race and he attacked me. And Lindsey Graham went home at zero, at zero. Lindsey
I got into
Graham in South Carolina where he is a senator was at one when I was at 40 and I won South Carolina.
Just so you understand. And I watch this guy who ran for president and he left in disgrace. He was a fool
He left in disgrace, OK, in disgrace. He made a fool out of himself. I don't think he could be elected
again in South Carolina because he ran so badly. OK, no way.
Then I see him on television like nothing happened talking about Donald Trump. Donald Trump is this.
Donald Trump is that. I destroyed him in the sense of we were competing. We were combatants. Then I
hear him talking about the war. I have been doing this for ten years. You know why we have been doing
it for ten years? Because, of guys like him. He wants to attack Syria and ISIS at the same time, OK? Now
for what reason? I want to knock out ISIS. You do one at a time.
COOPER: So how does the GOP differ under Donald Trump than under President Bush, than under --?
TRUMP: It would be smarter. It would save money. It would have balanced budgets. It would have
many more products made in the United States. It would have smart trade, not free trade. I'm a free
trader. The problem with free trade, and it's a very big problem. We need smart leadership. To have free
trade successfully, you have to have a really smart group of people at the top and person. We don't have
that. We have people that are grossly incompetent.
We are dealing against China. I've made a lot of money dealing against China. I have buildings. I own
the bank of America building. A big chunk of it in San Francisco. I owned 1290 Avenue of America. I
got it by competing against China. I didn't get it because of China. I competed against them. I won and I
have these assets, these great assets.
You know, I have told you before, I have the biggest bank in the world is a tenant of mine in Manhattan.
I sell condos to the Chinese. I get along great with the Chinese. I have no problem with the Chinese. I
wish we could do it. In fact, I respect China. They gotten away with murder. The single greatest theft in
the history of the world what China has done for the United States. We have rebuilt China with what they
have taken out of our country.
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BREAKING NEWS
I want to ask you about Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz says flexibility selection show live
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the is Washington code word for he is getting
Home
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, as you might expect, he had a lot to say about Senator Cruz, his tough rival in the polls
of right, at the right. More of our conversation with Trump just ahead.
Plus what to watch for in tonight's Democratic debate right here which starts at the top of the hour.
Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders facing off in the wake of his own unexpected win in Michigan that is
just days from Florida's important primary.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:55] COOPER: We're a little more than a half hour away from the Democratic presidential debate
here in Miami. Univision is hosting it. CNN is bringing it to you live. You can watch it right here on
CNN at the top of the hours.
Tomorrow, though, Republicans will be debating that the University of Miami. That's also on CNN.
Florida's primary is on Tuesday. And tonight Donald Trump is riding a new wave of momentum after
winning big in Michigan and Mississippi last night. He also won the Hawaii caucuses. When I sat down
with him earlier today, we talked about his rival Ted Cruz who also had a big win last night in Idaho and
today, got a ringing endorsement from their former mutual opponent Carly Fiorina.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: I want to ask you about Ted Cruz. You talked about the importance, you know, you and I
talked about the importance of being flexible.
TRUMP: He's totally inflexible.
COOPER: Cruz says flexibility is Washington code word for he is getting ready to stick it to the voters.
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What is flexibility to you? On what can you work?
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
COOPER: So you can work with Democrats?
TRUMP: Hey, I wrote "the art of the deal." OK.
COOPER: How important is unlocking gridlock in Washington?
TRUMP: Very important. We have total gridlock. Nobody can do anything. We have corporate -- you
take a look at corporate inversions which, by the way, the senators, they don't even know what it is. We
have companies leaving our country. They are leaving for two reasons. Because the taxes are too high
and I cut taxes very substantially and Larry Kudlow, by the way, loves my tax plan.
Taxes are too high and because they can't get their money back. They have money. You know,
Anderson, they have money outside of this country. Billions and billions `of dollars, big corporations lik
Pfizer. That is leaving now moving to Ireland. So they have money out there.
Every Democrat agrees we should let it come back. Every Republican agrees we should -- they all agree
that we should let it come back. Who wouldn't? In other words, let the money come into the United
States. They have agreed for four years they can't make a deal. You know why? There's no leader. I
could sit these guys down in a room and within 20 minutes we would have a deal. COOPER: So Donald
Trump as president reaches out to Democrats and
Republicans?
TRUMP: Well, that's the way it was set up, Anderson.
COOPER: Because there are some conservatives who say look, it's more important to stand on principle
than it is compromise.
TRUMP: I watched Ted Cruz make a fool of himself. I watched Ted Cruz filibuster.
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BREAKING NEWS
[20:30:00] For 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
NCAA reveals how long did he do it? For two days or something?
Home
I also watched 99 senators sitting back and laughing at him and saying, "Hey, when do we get back to
work?"
Now, they don't get along and everything so getting back to work doesn't help either. His filibuster did
nothing. What did they do? He wasted a day and half while he sat there and told stories about Alice in
Wonderland.
COOPER: What do you want to make deals with Democrats on? Where do you see room for a
compromise?
TRUMP: OK. Well first of all, I'd start with corporate inversion, because I can that one on about two
seconds. The money has to come back in them. They have $2.5 trillion, probably $5 trillion. But the
government says $2.5 trillion that companies want to bring into the country. Right. They can't bring it in
Some countries --some companies are leaving to get their money. Not just the taxes. They are leaving
because they can't bring their money back in. I could solve that problem in 10 minutes. OK. But there are
many things. We have to make a better health care deal. We have to work on education. We have
horrible education. We're number 30 in the world in education and yet number one per pupil in cost.
COOPER: So those are all things you can make compromises on with Democrats to get something done?
TRUMP: Of course you can. Of course you can. You can't be inflexible. Look, if somebody wants to sel
this house and they want a billion dollars. I want a billion dollars. You have to negotiate a little bit. OK.
COOPER: So the other knock that, you know, because some conservatives make, certainly to make on
President Obama. They say he is sort of an imperial president. Its one of the things Cruz is saying about
you. Even these are the pledge that you are having people make at rallies. He says that you're-- they're
treating your supporters like subjects to a king. The implication being as president you would be ...
TRUMP: It's just words. Look, its just words. Ted, it's just words with Ted. Ted is a guy who's somebody
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he's a very inflexible guy who never -- he'll never make a deal. You talk about gridlock now. If Ted Cruz
BREAKING NEWS
became president you wouldn't have anything Watch Washington would be a total
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field.done and the selection show live piece of stone. You
Home
constitution was set up with senators and congressmen and you are supposed to work and make deals.
COOPER: Do you see the constitution ...
TRUMP: And two parties. And it could be more than two parties but two parties.
COOPER: Do you see the constitution as a living breathing document that -- or do you see that
something set in stone from long ago? Those are sort of ...
TRUMP: I see the constitution as set in stone. I see it as one of the great documents of all time. I also see
it as something that says you're going to sit down and make deals. I mean look, if Ted wants something,
health care and he won't negotiate, the other side is not going to negotiate either. There is going to be a
little bit of movement. And that's wrong.
COOPER: And that's key to you to end gridlock in transition?
TRUMP: Yeah, but I'm going to make a better deal on the other side.
COOPER: All right.
TRUMP: I'm going to make a better deal.
COOPER: On foreign policy. Is there -- and maybe you've been running a campaign. Have you started
thinking about a -- sort of a Trump doctrine when for using foreign power overseas. What criteria do you
look that?
TRUMP: First of all, there can be no doctrine because everything is different. Every situation is
different. And I didn't want to go into Iraq and I'll say it 100 times. I didn't want to go , you know, there
is way you were on Howard Stern's show years. You know, before it ever happened. And if he asked me
that question and he's a friend of mine. He's a good guy actually, much different than you see on radio.
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Believe me.
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
TRUMP: H is a great guy. But Howard asked me and I said, "Well, I don't know." That's was the first
time it was ever asked. But don't forget I'm an entrepreneur. They don't ask me about me simply going
into Iraq at that time? And this was long before we went in. And you could see that I was very hesitant.
That's was like I wish I go in. Look ...
COOPER: What criteria would you use for sending troops somewhere?
TRUMP: Let me just tell you. Going into Iraq, my opinion, was one of the worst mistakes in the history
of this country. It was one of the worst decisions ever made in the history of this country. It started
everything that's happening today in the Middle East is because of that one decision to go into Iraq, OK?
It was a horrible decision, including the migration. Everything that, you know, it's a mess.
Now if Saddam Hussein was there, would we be better off? Absolutely. You know, hey, this was not a
nice man. This wasn't great guy, but Saddam Hussein did one thing. He killed terrorists. He was a
professional killer of terrorists.
Now you want to be a terrorist? You go to Iraq. That's called the Harvard of terrorism. Look, whether it's
Gaddafi, so terrible decision, Hillary Clinton. Whether it's Saddam Hussein, we were a lot better off
before.
COOPER: Do you think your ...
TRUMP: And besides that. Iraq did not knock down the world trade center. Just in case you had any
questions.
COOPER: Do you think Islam is at war with the west?
TRUIMP: I think Islam hates us. There is something -- there is something there that is a tremendous
hatred there. There's a tremendous hatred. We have to get to the bottom of it. There's an unbelievable
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hatred of us.
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
TRUMP: You're going to have to figure that out. OK. You'll get another Pulitzer, right? But you'll have
to figure that out. But there's a tremendous hatred. And we have to be very vigilant. We have to be very
careful. And we can't allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States.
COOPER: I guess the question is ...
TRUMP: And of people that are not Muslim.
[20:35:01] COOPER: I guess the question is, is there a war between the west and radical Islam or
between the west and Islam itself?
TRUMP: Well, it's radical but it's very hard to define. It's very hard to separate because you don't know
who is who.
Look, these two young people that got married, she supposedly radicalized him. Who knows what
happened?
COOPER: The San Bernardino killer?
TRUMP: The bottom line is they killed 14 people. They gave them baby showers. I mean, they were
friends of theirs and they walked in and they killed them. There's unbelievable hatred.
You look at Paris, 138 people killed. Many, many people are going to die in the hospital. Mortally
wounded, horribly wounded, horribly wounded. And they walk into a room and boom, boom, boom.
There's a sickness going on that's unbelievable. And honestly, you have to get to the bottom of it.
COOPER: You talked about going after the families of terrorists. You now reversed that essentially ...
TRUMP: I didn't reverse anything.
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BREAKING NEWS
COOPER: You would still want to go after the families of terrorists?
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
TRUMP: No, no, no. I didn't reverse anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Donald Trump had a lot more to say about what tactics he would try to use against terrorists.
How far he's actually willing to go and what he thinks about waterboarding. What we talked about today
some were calling his -- and we also talked about what some were calling, it's a real victory speech last
night.
Let's go ask our political panel what they are expecting to see at the Univision Democratic Debate which
starts at the top of the hour now just a minutes away. We're going to bring it you live, starting at 9:00
p.m. Eastern.
Stick around.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Looking in the two podiums here in Miami tonight. We're less than 20 minutes from now and
Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will be facing off in Democratic debate. CNN's bringing the
Univision Debate to you live.
Now earlier today, I interviewed Republican frontrunner Donald Trump fresh off his big wins yesterday
and his pretty surreal victory speech which was we've said, he used to showcase something Trump
products which aren't actually products that are available.
[20:40:10] Steaks, some are calling it a QVC moment filled by Mitt Romney's recent remarks. I asked
Trump about that. You'll hear his response in a moment. But, first let's pick up the interview where we
left off before the break. Where does Trump stand now on his comments about going after the families o
terrorists?
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
TRUMP: No, no, I didn't reverse anything. I clarified very simply we have laws. We have to obey the
laws. Now there must have to be one what
COOPER: During the candidate of church would be against the law.
TRUMP: I didn't say kill. We have to go after them. The family knows would have terrorists in that
COOPER: What does that mean? Kidnapping them?
TRUMP: You have a terrorist you have we going to do something and it's the only way you going to stop
it. You know, I tell the story of General Pershing and take a look at General Pershing in 1990 in the
Philippines, how he stopped terrorism. OK. You'll take a look at it. It's too long a story to tell on the tape
It will take the whole thing but it's one of the very interesting and very powerful stories.
Look, we're going to have to be a lot tougher. We are playing with a different set of rules. ISIS chops off
people heads. ISIS drowns people in steel cages and pulls up the cage an hour later. Everyone is gone,
40, 50, 60 people at a time.
COOPER: Were you said the other day we have to play the game, you said we got to play the game the
way they play the game.
TRUMP: We have to play the game at a much tougher level that were plan.
COOPER: What does that mean though?
TRUMP: We have to expand those laws.
COOPER: Does that mean cutting off heads?
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TRUMP: No, it doesn't mean that but we have to expand the laws luck.
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
TRUMP: Anderson, lets me explain something we are playing at this level and they don't care. They
have no rules. And we have these rules that are very onerous. I mean our military is got brought in
because ...
COOPER: Geneva Conventions on war. There's ways -- there's rules in a battle.
TRUMP: I know that, but, you know what, it's funny. It's very interesting what's happens with the
Geneva Convention. Everybody believes in the Geneva Convention until they start losing and then they
say oh, let's take out the bomb. OK. When they start losing. We have to play with a tougher set of rules.
We have laws. We don't allow water boarding.
Think of this ISIS is -- these are smart people. These are people that know the internet better than we do
and we're the ones that's, you know, came up with it. ISIS is sitting around. They just chopped off 20
heads of Christians and others. They just drowned 40 people. And they are sitting around watching us
arguing about water boarding.
COOPER: When you say increase the laws and do more than water boarding, what is that specifically?
TRUMP: I'll work it with the generals. I'll work wit the generals. COOPER: I talked to General Michael
Hayden.
TRUMP: For sure he says it's terrible that we talk that way. And, you know, what that's why he's been
fighting this war for many years. OK.
COOPER: He is the Four-Star General Former CIA. Fomer Head of the CIA., he says sharing foreign
policy ideas are frightening.
TRUMP: Oh, yeah I know well, his, he frightens me because we've been fighting ISIS for many years
and this shouldn't have taken -- this should have been over with quickly. So that's the problem we have
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these people that are frightened because I'm protecting chaos.
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
they are?
TRUMP: We're not fighting it strongly enough. We have to end it and get become to rebuilding our
country. Our infrastructure is falling apart. Our country is falling apart. Our country is falling apart. Our
bridges are falling down.
You know, 60 percent of our bridges are in dangerous condition? And we're spending trillions, trillions
of dollars in the Middle East. We have to fight it viciously and swiftly and we have to knock out ISIS.
Now I didn't want to go into Iraq. But the problem now is the way Obama got us out was a disaster.
And if you remember, when we got out -- and I said it on your show two or three years ago. I said take
the oil. Did I say take the oil?
COOPER: Yeah, you did.
TRUMP: OK.
COOPER: So when you say so are you still in support of water boarding and more?
TRUMP: I'm in total support of water boarding. It going to be within the law but I have to expand the
law because a lot of people think it's not within the law now because of this administration. So they are
allow to chop off heads and we aren't allowed to water board. Somehow we're at a big disadvantage. I
will tell you that right now.
COOPER: On a -- yeah.
TRUMP: And, again I was going to give you the analogy. So they are sitting around having dinner. They
believe it or not, even though they chop off heads and even though do they drown people, and they are
talking. Can you imagine the conversation when they are talking about how weak and soft and pathetic
we are and they go out and chop off people's heads? OK. They can't believe it. They can believe it.
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BREAKING NEWS
COOPER: I asked about ...
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
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TRUMP: The fact is, just in a nutshell, we have to be much tougher. If we're going to beat ISIS, we have
to be much tougher than we are. When you have General Hayden saying, "Oh, that's so terrible the way
Trump is talking," that's why we're losing.
COOPER: I got to ask you. I watched the press conference you gave last night. The victory speech.
Obviously huge night for you. Just a couple factual things. The steaks you showed, those aren't Trump
steaks, right?
TRUMP: Oh, no they are Trump. No I buy them. I'm not going to kill the cow.
COOPER: No but they aren't sold those are because ...
TRUMP: No, no, we sell excuse me.
COOPER: For showing this thing was to fight back in Flint and Mitt Romney said about ...
TRUMP: No, no just I understand Trump steaks.
[20:45:00] We sell the steaks through my clubs. I have many clubs and hotels. So we sell this cow ...
COOPER: But they aren't sold at sharper image. They are not
TRUMP: Oh no, they are sold differently.
COOPER: That business is gone.
TRUMP: No, no it's the same thing. It's an offshoot of it. I mean it's the same thing. We have, we do a
tremendous steak business.
COOPER: Because those steaks weren't bought locally from a meat supplier?
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BREAKING NEWS
TRUMP: No, no. We buy tournament field. Watch the selection show live
NCAA reveals 68-team a lot of steaks from different places. I don't want to but if I'm in California, I
Home
COOPER: So those steaks you sell ...
TRUMP: ...we sale the steaks, and largely, to our hotels and our clubs and things like that. You know, it'
a small business..
COOPER: And the magazine, you showed up, that's not the Trump magazine that Mitt Romney was
talking out?
TRUMP: I've had many magazines. Every time I open a business, I'll sometimes open a magazine for a
period of a year and get the business started and then close it.
COOPER: If people were pointing out today saying, "Oh, look, the items you were showing last night, in
order to push back against Mitt Romney, you know, the implication was those are Trump steaks
available nationwide somewhere they're not." TRUMP: ...where they are available nation wide. You can
buy them at different places that I own. I own many, many places.
COOPER: You can buy them if you eat in your restaurant here somewhere?
TRUMP: Yeah.
COOPER: You can't go on the internet and buy them.
TRUMP: The magazine, that magazine has been with me for a long time and you've morphed it in.
COOPER: But that's not the Trump magazine that Romney was talking about.
TRUMP: ...many magazines when I start a business, and I keep it open for a year or two until the
business gets going.
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Page 25 of 34
And after the building, if business gets going, you close it up. It's like a lost leader, because frankly, you
BREAKING NEWS
don't reveals money with these magazines.
NCAAmake any 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
COOPER: Finally, the debate tomorrow night, do you expect that the tone, the tenor to be different than
the last?
Last one was tough and then you had people on both sides come after you?
TRUMP: It's such an interesting question. I think it's going to be much different. I must tell you, last
time, I was leading.
And by the way, I don't know how you feel about it, but every single poll said that I won the last debate,
every -- Drudge said it, Time Magazine said it. You know, they do those online poll. With hundreds of
thousands of people calling in, but, I was in the '60s and '70s percentile.
Now, when I went into that, I said, this is going to be an interesting evening. I will tell you. It's going to
be a tough evening.
Many people said, "Oh, boy, I wouldn't want to be you tonight." That was going to be a tough evening. I
mean, they were like wounded. They were really wounded.
I think this is going to be much different. Now, I may be wrong, but I am now far and away the frontrunner. I think -- here's the thing, the Republican Party is sitting on something that's so bright. They are
sitting on millions and millions and millions of people that want to be part of it.
The worst thing they can do is knock me out. If I get knocked out, if I don't make it, every one of those ..
COOPER: Do you think they'll going to start to coalesce around you?
TRUMP: ... every one of those, I'm the only one can beat Hillary and I'll beat her easily.
I'll bring in Michigan, I may bring in New York. You know, we always talk about the path. You know,
the path is much tougher for a Republican, you do understand that structurally.
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BREAKING NEWS
Because if they lose Ohio, it's over, If they lose Pennsylvania, they loose Florida, it's
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live over.
Home
But I'll bring in states along the other. First of all, I'll win in Florida.
COOPER: Will you debate Cruz if it's one on one?
TRUMP: Yeah, that's fine.
COOPER: You would do a debate with Cruz ....
TRUMP: I don't think he's a good debater. I think he's -- frankly, the way I look at Ted, I think it's very
phony. I think Ted is actually a bad talker, pretty good debater, bad talker, can't talk.
I don't mind debating him at all. The problem is when I debate somebody, then people say, I'm not a nice
person. But they say you won the debate.
COOPER: So, bottom line, tomorrow night you're expecting a different tone, but you'll be ready for
anything?
TRUMP: ... be softer, but I'll be ready. I mean, you know, I think that Marco is going to be a different
person. Marco has been, you know, mortally wounded. You know, question is, will Marco even be there
I hope he makes the right decision. I'm not going to make the decision for him.
But Marco has been, you know, pretty, badly wounded. It will be interesting to see what happens. Kasich
is interesting, because he said he's going to win Michigan and he lost. He said he's going to win, I mean,
he said it to you. I think I watched him on your show.
COOPER: He never came out and said he'd win. But, he said, he thought he would do very well.
TRUMP: ...said, he would Michigan. He didn't even come in second. OK.
So, you know, I mean, I was of the impression if he didn't win Michigan -- I'm not talking about Ohio,
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I'm talking about Michigan.
BREAKING NEWS
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show live
Home
So, it'll be interesting to see what he says. And Ted is Ted. I mean, we've been playing the game now for
a long time.
These debates to me are getting very boring, if you want to know the truth. COOPER: Mr. Trump, thank
you.
TRUMP: Have a good time.
COOPER: Appreciate it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
A lot to talk about in that interview. Just ahead, we'll have some reaction to what Donald Trump said.
Steaks and all, we'll also talk about what is at stake tonight for the Democrat, Bernie Sanders, Hillary
Clinton about to take the debate stage in about 10 minutes. Stay with us, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:53:14] COOPER: Well, the Univision Democratic Debate will be starting here on CNN just a few
minutes from now you can watch right here just stake around for that. There's a lot of excitement in this
hall. We're also looking forward to our CNN Republican Debate over the University of Miami tomorrow
night. It's a very busy week for us in light of my conversation with the GOP front-runner, I want start
offer panel discussion on Donald Trump and then will switch the Democrats his victory speech last night
his opponents and also his path going to forward.
Joining us right now with CNN "Inside Politics" Anchor John King and Chief Political Analyst Gloria
Borger. You know, it's interesting to hear Trump. He is clearly you and I we're talking about this. He's
aware of the moment he is in right now.
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BREAKING NEWS
JOHN KING, 68-team tournament POLITICS": the selection whole live
NCAA revealsCNN ANCHOR, "INSIDEfield. Watch Yeah. I take the show interview globally.
his usedHome trade. Six weeks ago, Donald Trump would not have let you finish that sentence. He
in China
would have jumped and attacked Larry Kudlow. He would made a solution on steaks. He would have
been more combative.
He understands you heard a bit debate last night before he got into the infomercial two where he said its
time to let keep the Republican Senate, keep the Republican Congress. He understands the moment that
he's very close to being the presumptive nominee and trying to see more measured, trying to see more
frankly, in a word, presidential.
COOPER: He can't stop himself from like going back to what Mitt Romney said about his failed
businesses showing steaks which are not steaks that are -- they aren't Trump steaks. They are bought
from a local meat seller in West Palm Beach Florida called Bush brothers that still sold
KING: Irony there? That was witness.
COOPER: It's a minor ridiculous point but the fact that he was sort of fibbing about it in a nationally,
you know, broadcast press conference is kind of surreal. GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL
ANALYST: You know, he can only exhibit a certain amount of self-control to a point, I think, and I
thought he was trying to do so with you today because, clearly, people have gotten to him and said, OK,
you need to act presidential. But then when you ask him a question, he turns into sort of Donald Trump
who has to go on the attack, attack, attack.
[20:55:00] KING: He got most of the way through. Ted Cruz doesn't get under my skin, doesn't get
under my skin, roar.
COOPER: I want to bring Alicia Menendez, on Fusion. This is the Network Univision. Thank you so
much joining us its pleasure to be here. What are you looking on the stage now? I mean, it comes at a
critical time. We do a debate on Sunday night with the democrats for the states now. I mean, a lot has
changed just since then.
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ALICIA MENENDEZ, FUSION CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and listen, I think the candidates
BREAKING NEWS
understand that they're speaking tonight field. Watch the but also very specifically to a Latino
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament to a broad audience,selection show live
Home
So, top of mind for that audience economic issues, one and three Latino voters say that's what's top of
mind for them but, immigration, of course, a deeply personal issue to this community.
I saw a study that said one in every three Latino voters actually has someone in their family who is
undocumented. When you think about that, that's an issue not only that, you know, you might say to a
pollster, yes, it's important to me. It's an issue that actually gets you out on the door on Election Day,
especially the candidate like Donald Trump.
COOPER: And also, Alicia, I've seen polls based where they show Donald Trump very unpopular among
Latino voters in a general election.
I'm curious to see how much they sort of try to define the GOP as Donald Trump's party and how much
they try to talk about Donald Trump.
MENENDEZ: I think they would be insane not to. I think Democrats see that there's an opportunity for
them to pivot to the general election to use Trump as an example of what the GOP stands for.
And yet, even though you see a vast majority of Latino voters saying that they find Trump's remarks on
immigration abhorrent. You also see that only a small percentage thinks it's reflective of the Republican
Party overall.
So the question is, if it's someone other than Trump namely, if it is Cruz, can he get out from under the
damage that Trump has done?
BORGER: And, you know, tonight, you'll see Hillary Clinton hug President Obama to a certain degree
on the executive orders on immigration. But on the question of deportation ...
MENENDEZ: Yeah. BORGER: ... and the number of illegal immigrants who have been deported, it's a
very big issue in the Latino community. And we'll see how she deals with that.
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BREAKING NEWS
KING: I think 68-team questions, who are Watch the selection show live
NCAA revealsit fascinatestournament field.they talking to? They have a national audience, but
because Homenewcomer, because he's from the state of Vermont.
he's a
So, is he want to focus there or does he want to focus on Ohio or Illinois next week, because he has a
national audience, even though he's at a Univision debate.
Also on the trade issue, does he want to talk like he talks to the Rust Belt about, you know, you're getting
screwed by these deals, we need to be tougher, we need to take them away.
Well, in Florida and among the Latino community, a lot of the small businesses do a lot of business
throughout the hemisphere.
They have family relationships, they have cultural relationship, they have historical relationships.
So, the tough on trade argument that you can sell in Michigan, Ohio and Illinois is a little bit different
here when you get to Florida.
COOPER: And does Hillary Clinton start to -- I mean, did she learn some lesson from what happened in
Michigan and start to pivot that, you know, famous word of politics which you can interpret in a
multitude of different ways?
MENENDEZ: I saw a statistic that should perhaps, make the Clinton campaign nervous, which is that
about 18 percent of the early voting that's been done in the state by democratic voters are from voters
who did not vote in the last two elections.
So, those are voters that are more likely to come out and vote for an outsider candidate, which is what
Sanders is trying to position himself as.
So, I think you have the possibility of seeing the type of spike we saw in Michigan that pollsters missed,
actually happen on Election Day.
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BORGER: It's such a diverse state, though, right? And I think that, you know, somebody who can win
BREAKING NEWS
Florida in either party can say, I have an field. to a broad coalition because, you know, this is in many
NCAA reveals 68-team tournament appealWatch the selection show live
Home
And so, you know, either one of them would want to win this state.
COOPER: And just in terms of delegate count. I mean, that you have that floating around in your head a
all times. I mean, Bernie Sanders had, I mean, amazing win in Michigan, surprised a lot of people,
certainly in the pundit world. The path forward, though, is tough. KING: And yet, she stretched her lead
last night in the delegate race.
So, you have two campaigns going on. Her campaign says it's OK. Yeah, we took a punch. We didn't
want to lose Michigan, it's embarrassing. But, we stress our lead in the delegate debate for the
psychology of the race is now in Sanders camp.
And the question is one win is not enough, but, if he can take in Ohio and in Illinois, or at least, one of
them, if he can have a stronger showing in Florida than people expect. Last night was an opening, it was
not a game-changer. It was an opening to a game-changer.
Next Tuesday could be a game changer if he wins again. If he understands the pressure up there tonight,
she wants to put him back in his place, if he will make him more of a message candidate.
So, they both have reasons to escalate the attacks because of the stakes in the campaign, but there are
huge risks if you do that, too. That's what I'm fascinated by, the chess.
COOPER: Right, how aggressive is it going to get tonight? I mean, we saw a lot of tension on the stage
on Sunday ...
BORGER: Yeah.
COOPER: ... of the debate over the issues of NAFTA and trade. But, are they going to be coming out
from the get-go ready to go?
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BORGER: I think they might. It's hard to say, but so much is at stake, particularly for Bernie Sanders
BREAKING NEWS
right reveals can't imagine that he would back off. He was very aggressive live
NCAAnow that I 68-team tournament field. Watch the selection show from the last debate. I
Home
COOPER: Yeah, well, I want to thank John King and Gloria Borger, Alicia Menendez, it's great to have
you. Thank you for joining us.
We will see all of our panelists after the debate. It's about 10 seconds way now.
[21:00:00] Time now for the main event and we'll be on live right afterward. Here it is.
Search CNN...
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 10
Orlando Shooting: Read Donald Trump's Speech | Time.com
Page 1 of 9
DONALD TRUMP
Read Donald Trump's Speech on the
Orlando Shooting
Ryan Teague Beckwith
Updated: Jun 13, 2016 8:36 PM Pacific
Donald Trump addressed the shooting at a gay club in Orlando in a prepared
speech Monday, calling for suspending immigration from countries with a
history of terrorism.
Here is a full transcript of his remarks, as given.
TRUMP: (OFF-MIKE) This was going to be a speech on Hillary Clinton and all of the bad things
and we all know what's going on, and especially how poor she'd do as president in these very, very
troubled times of radical Islamic terrorism.
TRUMP: Even her former Secret Service agent, who's seen her under pressure and in times of
stress, has stated that she lacks the temperament and integrity to be our president. There will be
plenty of opportunity to discuss these important issues at a later time, and I will deliver that
speech very, very soon.
But today, there's only one thing to discuss, the growing threat of terrorism inside of our borders.
The attack on the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Florida, was the worst terror strike on our soil since
September 11th, and the worst mass shooting in our country's history.
So many people -- it's just hard to believe, but just so many people dead, so many people gravely
injured, so much carnage, such a disgrace. The horror is beyond description. The families of these
wonderful people are totally devastated, and they will be forever. Likewise, our whole nation and
indeed the whole world is devastated.
We express our deepest sympathies to the victims, the wounded, and their families. We mourn as
one people for our nation's loss, and pledge our support to any and all who need it. I would like to
ask now that we all observe a moment of silence for the victims of this attack.
Thank you. Our nation stands together in solidarity with the members of Orlando's LGBT
community. They have been through something that nobody could ever experience. This is a very
dark moment in America's history. A radical Islamic terrorist targeted the nightclub, not only
because he wanted to kill Americans, but in order to execute gay and lesbian citizens, because of
their sexual orientation.
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It's a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation. It's an assault on the ability of free
people to live their lives, love who they want, and express their identity. It's an attack on the right
of every single American to live in peace and safety in their own country.
We need to respond to this attack on America as one united people, with force, purpose, and
determination. But the current politically correct response cripples our ability to talk and to think
and act clearly. We're not acting clearly, we're not talking clearly, we've got problems.
If we don't get tough, and if we don't get smart, and fast, we're not going to have our country
anymore. There will be nothing, absolutely nothing, left. The killer, whose name I will not use, or
ever say, was born in Afghan, of Afghan parents, who immigrated to the United States.
His father published support for the Afghan Taliban, a regime which murders those who don't
share its radical views, and they murdered plenty. The father even said he was running for
president of Afghanistan. The bottom line is that the only reason the killer was in America in the
first place, was because we allowed his family to come here.
That is a fact, and it's a fact we need to talk about. We have a dysfunctional immigration system,
which does not permit us to know who we let into our country, and it does not permit us to
protect our citizens properly. We have an incompetent administration.
And if I'm elected president, that will not change, I will tell you, that will not change over the next
four years. We have an administration that will not change. But if I get in there, it's going to
change, and it's going to change quickly. We're going from totally incompetent to just the
opposite, believe me.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Thank you.
With 50 people dead and perhaps more ultimately and dozens more wounded, we cannot afford to
talk around issues anymore. We have to address these issues head-on. I called for a ban after San
Bernardino and was met with great scorn and anger but now many years and I have to say many
years but many are saying that I was right to do so. And although the pause is temporary we must
find out what is going on. We have to do it.
It will be lifted -- this ban -- when and as a nation we're in a position to properly and perfectly
screen these people coming into our country. They're pouring in and we don't know what we're
doing. The immigration laws of the United States give the president powers to suspend entry into
the country of any class of persons. Now, any class -- it really is determined and to be determined
by the president for the interests of the United States. And it's as he or she deems appropriate.
Hopefully it's he in this case.
(APPLAUSE)
Thank you. I will use this power to protect the American people. When I'm elected I will suspend
immigration from areas of the world where there's a proven history of terrorism against the
United States, Europe or our allies until we fully understand how to end these threats. After a
full ...
(APPLAUSE)
Thank you.
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Page 3 of 9
And by the way we have no choice. After a full and partial and long -- really long overdue security
assessment we will develop a responsible immigration policy that serves the interests and values
of America.
(APPLAUSE)
We cannot continue to allow thousands upon thousands of people to pour into our country many
of whom have the same thought process as this savage killer. Many of the principles of radical
Islam are incompatible with Western values and institutions.
(APPLAUSE) Remember this, radical Islam is anti-woman, anti-gay and anti- American.
(APPLAUSE)
I refuse to allow America to become a place where gay people, Christian people, Jewish people are
targets of persecution and intimation by radical Islamic preachers of hate and violence.
(APPLAUSE)
This is not just a national security issue. It's a quality of life issue. If we want to protect the quality
of life for all Americans -- women and children, gay and straight, Jews and Christians and all
people then we need to tell the truth about radical Islam and we need to do it now.
(APPLAUSE)
We need to tell the truth also about how radical Islam is coming to our shores. And it's coming ...
(APPLAUSE)
With these people, folks, it's coming. We're importing radical Islamic terrorism into the West
through a failed immigration system and through an intelligence community held back by our
president. Even our own FBI director has admitted that we cannot effectively check the
backgrounds of people we're letting into America. All of the September 11th hijackists were issued
visas. Large numbers of Somali refugees in Minnesota have tried to join ISIS.
The Boston bombers came here through political asylum. The male shooter in San Bernardino
again whose name I will not mention was the child of immigrants from Pakistan and he brought
his wife, the other terrorist from Saudi Arabia through another one of our easily exploited visa
programs.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Immigration from Afghanistan into the United States has increased nearly five fold -five fold in just one year. According to Pew Research, 99 percent of the people in Afghanistan
support oppressive sharia law. We admit many more, and that's just the way it is. We admit many
more from other countries in the region.
And I'll tell you what: They share these oppressive views and values. We want to remain a free and
open society. Then, and if we do, then we have to control our borders. We have to control, and we
have to control them now, not later. Right now.
(APPLAUSE)
Thank you.
Yet Hillary Clinton, for months, and despite so many attacks, repeatedly refused to even say the
words radical Islam until I challenged her yesterday. And, guess what, she will probably say them.
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Page 4 of 9
She sort of has said them, but let's see what happens. She really has no choice, but she doesn't
want to.
However, she's really been forced, and she has been forced to say these words. She supports, and
the reason is, she supports so much of what is wrong, and what is wrong with this country, and
what's going wrong with our country and our borders. She has no clue, in my opinion, what radical
Islam is and she won't speak honestly about it if she does, in fact, know. She's in total denial, and
her continuing reluctance to ever name the enemy broadcasts weakness across the entire world -true weakness.
I don't know if you know this, but just a few weeks before San Bernardino, the slaughter, that's all
it was was a slaughter, Hillary Clinton explained her refusal to say the words "radical Islam." Here
is what she said, exact quote, "Muslims are peaceful and tolerant people, and have nothing
whatsoever to do with terrorism." That is Hillary Clinton.
So, she says the solution is to ban guns. They tried that in France which has among the toughest
gun laws anywhere in the world, and 130 people were brutally murdered by Islamic terrorists in
cold blood. Her plan is to disarm law abiding Americans, abolishing the Second Amendment, and
leaving only the bad guys and terrorists with guns. No good. Not going to happen, folks. Not going
to happen. Not going to happen. (APPLAUSE)
Thank you.
She wants to take away American's guns and then admit the very people who want to slaughter us.
Let them come into the country, we don't have guns. Let them come in, let them have all the fun
they want.
I will be meeting with the NRA, which has given me their earliest endorsement in a presidential
race, to discuss how to ensure Americans have the means to protect themselves in this age of
terror. I will be always defending the Second Amendment.
(APPLAUSE)
Thank you. Thank you.
The bottom line is that Hillary supports policies that bring the threat of radical Islam into
American and allow it to grow oversees, and it is growing. In fact, Hillary Clinton's catastrophic
immigration plan will bring vastly more radical Islamic immigration into this country, threatening
not only our society but our entire way of life. When it comes to radical Islamic terrorism,
ignorance is not bliss. It's deadly -- totally deadly.
The Obama administration, with the support of Hillary Clinton and others, has also damaged our
security by restraining our intelligence gathering and we have, just, no intelligence gathering
information. We need this information so badly, and he stopped it. We don't have the support. We
don't have the support of the law enforcement system because Obama is not letting them do their
job. They are not being allowed to do their job. And, they can do it well -- better than anybody.
We need a new leader. We need a new leader fast.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Thank you.
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They have put political correctness above common sense, above your safety, and above all else. I
refuse to be politically correct.
(APPLAUSE)
I want to do the right thing. I want to straighten things out and I want to make America great
again.
(APPLAUSE)
The days of deadly ignorance will end, and they will end soon if I'm elected. As president I will
give our intelligence community, law enforcement and military the tools they need to prevent
terrorist attacks. They don't have those tools now.
(APPLAUSE)
We need an intelligence gathering system second to none. Second to none. That includes better
cooperation between state, local and federal officials, and with our allies, very importantly. I will
have an Attorney General, a Director of National Intelligence and a Secretary of Defense who'll
know how to fight a war on radical Islamic terrorism.
(APPLAUSE)
And they will have the support that they need to get the job done right, not like it is right now. It's
not right.
(APPLAUSE)
We also must ensure the American people are provided the information they need to understand
the threat. The Senate subcommittee on Immigration has already identified hundreds of
immigrants charged with terrorist activities inside the United States since September 11th. Nearly
a year ago, the Senate Subcommittee asked President Obama's Department of Justice, State and
Homeland Security to provide the immigration history of all terrorists inside the United States.
These Departments refused to comply. Nobody even knows why. They refused to comply.
President Obama must release the full and complete immigration histories of all individuals
implicated in terrorist activities of any kind since September 11th. So important. The public has a
right to know how these people got here, how they came on to this great land, why are they here?
(APPLAUSE)
We have to screen applicants to know whether they are affiliated with or supporting radical
groups and beliefs, very simple. We have to control the amount of future immigration into this
country and we have to prevent large pockets of radicalization from forming inside America. Not
complicated.
(APPLAUSE)
Every - and just think of this. Take a look. Every single event, even a single individual can be
devastating, and all you have to do is take a look at what happened in Orlando and what happened
in other cases. Just a single event. And just one person. Can you imagine what they'll do in large
groups, which we're allowing now to come here.
Truly our President doesn't know what he's doing. He's failed us and he's failed us badly. Under his
leadership this situation will not get any better, it will only get worse. And I've been saying that
for a long time. Each year the United States permanently admits 100,000 immigrants from the
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Middle East and many more from Muslim countries outside of the Middle East. Our government
has been admitting ever- growing numbers, year after year, without any effective plan for our own
security.
In fact, Clinton's State Department was in charge of admissions and the admissions process for
people applying to enter from overseas. Having learned nothing from these attacks, she now plans
to massively increase admissions without a screening plan including a 500 percent increase in
Syrian refugees coming into our country. Tell me, tell me - how stupid is that?
This could be a better, bigger, more horrible version than the legendary Trojan Horse ever was.
Altogether, under the Clinton plan, you'd be admitting hundreds of thousands of refugees from
the Middle East with no system to vet them, or to prevent the radicalization of the children and
their children. Not only their children, by the way, they're trying to take over our children and
convince them how wonderful ISIS is and how wonderful Islam is and we don't know what's
happening.
TRUMP: The burden is on Hillary Clinton to tell us why she believes immigration from these
dangerous countries should be increased without any effective system to really to screen. We're
not screening people.
So why don't we have an effective screening system? We don't. We're being laughed at all over the
world. The burden is on Hillary Clinton to tell us why we should admit anyone into our country
who supports violence of any kind against gay and lesbian Americans. The burden is on Hillary
Clinton to tell us how she will pay for it, her plan will cost hundreds of billions of dollars long
term.
Wouldn't this be money better spent rebuilding America for our current population including the
many poor people already living here. We have cities, we have inner cities...
(APPLAUSE)
We have poverty all over and this is how we're spending billions of dollars. We have to stop the
tremendous flow of Syrian refugees into the United States. We don't know who they are, they have
no documentation and we don't know what they're planning and we won't unless we have proper
supervisor and proper leadership in which case they're out of here. What I want...
(APPLAUSE)
What I want is common sense. I want a mainstream immigration policy that promotes American
values. That's a choice I put before the American people. A mainstream immigration policy
designed to benefit America or Hillary Clinton's radical immigration policy designed to benefit
politically correct special interests. That's all it is. We've got to get smart and tough and vigilant
and we've got to do it now because later is too late -- going to be too late for our country.
The media talks about home grown terrorism but Islamic radicalism and that's a very, very
important term -- a term that the president refuses to use and the networks that nurture it are
imports from overseas whether you like it or whether you don't like it. Yes, there are many
radicalized people already inside our country as a result of poor policies of the past.
But the whole point is that we will be much, much and it will be easier to deal with our current
problem if we don't keep on bringing people who add to the problem. And that's what they're
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doing. We're letting all of these people -- hundreds of thousands of people come in and all they're
doing is adding to this incredible problem we have.
For instance, the controversial mosque attended by the Boston bombers had at its founder and as
its founder an immigrant from overseas charged in an assassination plot. This shooter and
amazingly in Orlando was the child of an immigrant father who supported one of the most
repressive regimes on earth. Why would we admit people who support violent hatred?
Hillary Clinton can never claim to be a friend of the gay community as long as she continues to
support immigration policies that bring Islamic extremists to our country and who suppress
women, gays and anyone who doesn't share their views or values.
(APPLAUSE)
She can't have it both ways. She can't claim to be supportive of these communities while trying to
increase the number of people coming in who want to oppress these same communities. How does
this kind of immigration make our lives better? How does this kind of immigration make our
country better? Why does Hillary Clinton want to bring people in in vast numbers who reject our
values? Why? Explain.
Ask yourself who is really the friend of women and the LGBT community, Donald Trump with
actions or Hillary Clinton with her words?
TRUMP: I will tell you who the better friend is and some day I believe that will be proven out bigly
(ph).
(APPLAUSE)
And by the way the LGBT community is just -- what's happened to them is just so sad and to be
thinking about where their policies are currently with this administration is a disgrace to that
community, I will tell you right now.
Clinton wants to allow radical Islamic terrorists to pour into our country. They enslave women,
and they murder gays. I don't want them in our country.
(APPLAUSE)
Immigration is a privilege, and we should not let anyone into this country who doesn't support
our communities. All of our communities, every single one of them. Americans already admitted
four times more immigrants than any country on Earth, anybody in the world. Four times more. At
least, because we don't even know who's coming in. And we continue to admit millions more with
no real checks or scrutiny.
Not surprisingly, wages for our workers haven't budged. In almost 20 years. You wonder why we
get the crowds, you wonder why we get this tremendous support, you wonder why I've gotten
more votes than any Republican in any primary in the history of the Republican Party? Take a look
at that. Take a look at your security, take a look at the wages. For 18 years they've been stagnant,
they've even gone down.
So whether it's a matter of national security, or financial security, we can't afford to keep on going
like this. Cannot afford it. We owe $19 trillion in debt. And no longer have any options. Our
communities from all backgrounds are ready for some relief. This is not an act of offense against
anyone. It's really an act of defense. I want us all, all of us, to work together. We have to form a
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partnership, with our Muslim communities. We have Muslim communities in this country that are
great, and we have to form that partnership.
Now, the Muslim community, so important. They have to work with us. They have to cooperate
with law enforcement and turn in the people who they know are bad. They know it. And they have
to do it, and they have to do it forthwith. I want to fix our schools. I want to fix our bridges. And
our jobs market, we're going to have it rocket again, we're going to make great trade deals. But I
want every American to succeed including Muslims.
But the Muslims have to work with us. They have to work with us. They know what's going on.
They know that he was bad. They knew the people in San Bernardino were bad. But you know
what? They didn't turn them in. And you know what? We had death, and destruction.
Hillary Clinton wants to empty out the Treasury to bring people into the country that include
individuals who preach hate against our citizens. I want to protect our citizens, all of our citizens.
The terrorist attack on Pulse nightclub demands a full and complete investigation into every
single aspect of the assault. In San Bernardino, as an example, people who knew what was going
on, they knew exactly, but they used the excuse of racial profiling for not reporting it. They said
oh, "We thought so but we didn't want to use racial profiling." Which was probably an excuse
given to them by their lawyer, so they don't get in trouble.
We need to know what the killer discussed with his relatives, parents, friends and associates. We
need to know if he was affiliated with any radical mosques or radical activists and what, if any, is
their immigration status. We have to know, and we have to know fast. We need to know if he
traveled anywhere and who he traveled with. We need to know, and we need to make sure, every
single last person involved in this plan, including anyone who knew something but didn't tell us,
is brought to justice, so when people know what's going on and they don't tell us, and we have an
attack, and people die, these people have to have consequences. Big consequences.
(APPLAUSE)
America must do more -- much more -- to protect its citizens, especially people who are potential
victims of crimes based on their backgrounds or sexual orientation, as you just saw in Orlando.
TRUMP: It also means we must change our foreign policy. The decision to overthrow the regime in
Libya, then pushing for the overthrow of the regime in Syria, among other things, without plans
for the day after, have created space for ISIS to expand and grow like nobody has ever seen before.
These actions, along with our disastrous Iran deal, have also reduced our ability to work in
partnership with our Muslim allies in the region. That is why our new goal must be to defeat
Islamic terrorism not nation building. No more nation building. It's never going to work.
And by the way we've spent almost $5 trillion over the years on trying to nation build in the
Middle East and it has been complete and total disaster. We're further away now than we were 15
years ago. For instance, the last major NATO mission was Hillary Clinton's war in Libya. That
mission helped to unleash ISIS on a new continent.
I've said NATO need to change its focus and stop terrorism. We have to focus on terrorism and we
have to stop terrorism. Since I've raised that criticism and it's OK. I've gotten no credit for it but
these are minor details -- NATO has since announced a new initiative -- front page of the Wall
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Street Journal four days ago focused on just that. America must unite the whole civilized world in
the fight against Islamic terrorism.
(APPLAUSE)
Pretty much like we did with communism during the Cold War. We tried it President Obama's way,
doesn't work. He gave the world his apology tour. We got ISIS and many other problems in return.
That's what we got. Remember the famous apology tour. We're sorry for everything.
I'd like to conclude my remarks today by again expressing our solitarily with the people of Orlando
who have come under this horrific attack. When I'm president I pledge to protect and defend all
Americans who live inside our borders. Wherever they come from, wherever they were born, I
don't care. All Americans living here and following our laws not other laws will be protected.
(APPLAUSE)
Thank you. Thank you. We're going to be tough and we're going to be smart and we're going to do
it right. America will be a tolerant and open society. America will also be a safe society. We will
protect our borders at home. We will defeat ISIS overseas. We have no choice. We will ensure
every parent can raise their children in peace and safety. We will make America rich again. We will
make America safe again. We will make America great again. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
(APPLAUSE)
Thank you. Thank you very much, everybody. Appreciate it. Thank you.
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The following is a script from "The Republican Ticket" which aired on July 17, 2016. Lesley
Stahl is the correspondent. Richard Bonin and Ruth Streeter, producers.
Voices of
The Republican National Convention that begins tomorrow in Cleveland will star Donald
Trump and his chosen running mate the governor of Indiana, Mike Pence.
The Republican leadership has praised Pence as a good choice to unite the party. He's
known as a reliable conservative with close ties to the religious right and he also has good
relations with Republicans in Congress, having served six terms in the House of
Representatives.
60 MINUTES OVERTIME
What kind of vice president
would Mike Pence be?
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Le Pen
Taking on
Eiger
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The Alzhe
Laborato
But there are significant areas in terms of values and policy where he has differed with Mr.
Trump in the past.
We had the chance to ask the two of them about that in their first and only interview
together, yesterday afternoon in New York, in Trump's three-story penthouse apartment in
the Trump Tower.
Lesley Stahl: First of all, Governor Pence, congratulations.
Mike Pence: Thank you.
"It's very, very humbling and I couldn't be more honored
to have the opportunity to run with, and serve with, the
next president of the United States."
Lesley Stahl: This has probably come as a huge, life-changing moment for you.
Mike Pence: It has. It's very, very humbling and I couldn't be more honored to have the
opportunity to run with, and serve with, the next president of the United States.
Lesley Stahl: Before we actually talk about the politics, you know, there've been so many
major world events very recently, in the last week. I don't know if you can remember the last
time we have seen a world this much in chaos. You even said, "It's spinning apart." Are you
ready for this world that we are facing today?
60 MINUTES OVERTIME
Mike Pence on waging war
against radical Islam
Donald Trump: We're both ready. I've no doubt. We need toughness. We need strength.
Obama's weak, Hillary's weak. And part of it is that, a big part of it. We need law and order.
We need strong borders.
Lesley Stahl: But all reactions to what's been going on aren't muscular. For example, look
what happened in Turkey. There was a military coup in a democratic country; a NATO ally.
How would you respond to that?
Donald Trump: Well, as a president, I'm going to be-- you know, they've been an ally and I
stay with our allies. They have been an ally. But that was a quick coup. I was actually
surprised to see how well it was handled. And you know who really handled it? The people.
So, I mean, we can say what we want, but the people handled it. When they surrounded the
army tanks and without the people, you would've never had it. The military would've taken
over.
"We're both ready. I've no doubt. We need toughness. We
need strength. Obama's weak, Hillary's weak."
Mike Pence: But I truly do believe that the larger issue here is declining American power in
the world. I truly do believe that history teaches that weakness arouses evil and whether it
be the horrific attack in France, the inspired attacks here in the United States, the instability
in Turkey that led to a coup. I think that is all a result of a foreign policy of Hillary Clinton
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and Barack Obama that has led from behind and that has sent an inexact, unclear message
about American resolve. One of the reasons why I said yes in a heartbeat to run with this
man, is because he embodies American strength, and I know that he will provide that kind of
broad-shouldered American strength on the global stage as well.
Lesley Stahl: Let's talk about what happened in Nice, horrendous, carnage, horrible-Donald Trump: Horrible.
Lesley Stahl: Horrible. You said you would declare war against ISIS. What exactly do you
have-Donald Trump: It is war. By the way, it is war.
Lesley Stahl: No, but does that-- when you say, "Declare war," do you want to send American
troops in there? Is that what you mean?
Donald Trump: Look, we have people that hate us. We have people that want to wipe us out.
We're gonna declare war against ISIS. We have to wipe out ISIS. These are people that--
60 MINUTES OVERTIME
Did Trump consider his
daughter for vice president?
Lesley Stahl: With troops on the ground?
Donald Trump: I am going to have very few troops on the ground. We're going to have
unbelievable intelligence, which we need; which, right now, we don't have. We don't have the
people over there. We are going to use-Lesley Stahl: You want to send Americans-Donald Trump: Excuse me-- and we're going to have surrounding states and, very
importantly, get NATO involved because we support NATO far more than we should,
frankly, because you have a lot of countries that aren't doing what they're supposed to be
doing. And we have to wipe out ISIS. And speaking of Turkey, Turkey is an ally. Turkey can
do it by themselves. But they have to be incentivized. For whatever reason, they're not. So we
have no choice.
Lesley Stahl: But I still don't know if you're going to send troops over-Donald Trump: Very little. I'm gonna-Lesley Stahl: But declare war-Donald Trump: --get neighboring states and I'm going to get-- we are going to get NATO;
we're going to wipe 'em out. We're gonna-Lesley Stahl: But declare war?
Mike Pence: Lesley-Lesley Stahl: What does that mean-Mike Pence: This is-- this is the kind-- this is the kind of leadership that America needs and
it-Lesley Stahl: But what-Mike Pence: -and it begins with deciding to destroy the enemies of our freedom.
Lesley Stahl: How?
Mike Pence: And how we do that? I have every confidence. You-- you remember I served on
the Foreign Affairs Committee. And I'm very confident that when Donald Trump becomes
president of the United States, he'll give a directive to our military commanders, bring
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together other nations, and we will use the enormous resources of the United States to
destroy that enemy.
60 MINUTES OVERTIME
Trump and Pence's shared
values
Donald Trump: Now look, we are going to get rid of ISIS, big league. And we're going to get rid
of 'em fast. And we're going to use surrounding states. We're going to use NATO, probably.
And we're going to declare war. It is war. When the World Trade Center comes tumbling
down, with thousands of people being killed, people are still-- I have friends that are still-Lesley Stahl: But we did go to war, if you remember. We went to Iraq.
Donald Trump: Yeah, you went to Iraq, but that was handled so badly. And that was a war-by the way, that was a war that we shouldn't have entered because Iraq did not knock down-excuse me
Lesley Stahl: Your running mate-Donald Trump: Iraq did not-Lesley Stahl: --voted for it.
Donald Trump: I don't care.
Lesley Stahl: What do you mean you don't care that he voted for?
Donald Trump: It's a long time ago. And he voted that way and they were also misled. A lot of
information was given to people.
Lesley Stahl: But you've harped on this.
Donald Trump: But I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning.
Lesley Stahl: Yeah, but you've used that vote of Hillary's that was the same as Governor
Pence as the example of her bad judgment.
for Iraq war, but not Clinton's
Donald Trump: Many people have, and frankly, I'm one of the few that was right on Iraq.
Lesley Stahl: Yeah, but what about he-Donald Trump: He's entitled to make a mistake every once in a while.
Lesley Stahl: But she's not? OK, come on-Donald Trump: But she's not-Lesley Stahl: She's not?
Donald Trump: No. She's not.
Lesley Stahl: Got it.
Lesley Stahl: I have to move on or we're never gonna find out why he chose you. Why did
you pick him? You had other candidates-60 MINUTES ALL ACCESS
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Donald Trump: OK, I did. I had a lot of people that wanted it; a lot more people than
anybody-Lesley Stahl: That came to you and begged you for it?
Donald Trump: That called me and came to me and wanted it badly. And you know, the
press didn't report that. The press said, "Well, maybe he's having hard time picking--"
Lesley Stahl: Well, what about the governor? Did he want it like that?
Donald Trump: I actually brought it up to him.
Lesley Stahl: OK.
Donald Trump: I got to know him during the-- when I was in Indiana during the primaries,
and I did very well in Indiana, like I did just about everywhere else in all fairness. But-- I got
to know him very well and I gained great respect for him. And I looked at the numbers,
meaning the financials, which we would say in business. But I looked at the numbers.
Unemployment? What a great job he did. Jobs? What a great job he did. Triple-A rating on
his bonds.
Lesley Stahl: --but you went to him and said-Donald Trump: I did-Lesley Stahl: Would you want to be considered-Donald Trump: I broached it.
Lesley Stahl: He didn't -- And then he said, "I-- I really want it." So why did you pick him?
Donald Trump: I would say that he thought about it a little bit. And about two seconds later,
he called me, with his incredible wife, and said-Lesley Stahl: That I'd like to be-- but what-Donald Trump: Like many others.
Lesley Stahl: How does he help you? How does he help you win in terms of groups of people?
And what is your weakness that he compensates for and so forth-Donald Trump: Well, I went for the quality individual rather than I'm gonna win a state,
because I'm doing very well in Indiana, and I guess I'm a lot up. And I think I'm gonna win
Indiana. I have a great relationship and Bobby Knight helped me so much with Indiana.
Indiana's a great place; great state.
Lesley Stahl: Why didn't you pick him? No, I'm joking -- moving on.
Donald Trump: He would've been very good. But he's a terrific guy. But-- but I really like him
as an individual.
Lesley Stahl: So you must've considered, obviously, by the reaction to your choice, a lot of
the conservatives are very happy.
Donald Trump: Very happy.
Lesley Stahl: Was that part of the-Donald Trump: Yes, it was party unity. I'm an outsider. I am a person that used to be
establishment when I'd give them hundreds of thousands of dollars. But when I decided to
run, I became very anti-establishment because I understand the system-Lesley Stahl: Is he establishment?
Donald Trump: --than anybody else. He's very establishment, in many ways, and that's not a
bad thing. But I will tell you-Lesley Stahl: That's kind of interesting -60 MINUTES ALL ACCESS
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Donald Trump: --I have seen more people that, frankly, did not like me so much, and now
they're saying, "What a great pick." You see the kinda reaction. He has helped bring the party
together. I understand. Look, I got more votes than anybody, but I also understand there's a
faction-Lesley Stahl: Is it already unified, do you think?
Donald Trump: I think it's very close to unified. And I will say-Lesley Stahl: Just because of this pick?
Donald Trump: No. I think it's be-- I think it was much more unified than people thought.
You saw that with the recent vote where we won in a landslide. You saw that with the big
vote, the primary vote. I think it's far more unified than the press lets on. But having
Governor Mike Pence has really-- people that I wasn't necessarily liking or getting along are
loving this pick, because they have such respect for him.
Lesley Stahl: And that was-Donald Trump: And the party unity is OK. You know, I think it's OK to say I picked
somebody, because I-- as one of the things. But I really believe the main reason I picked him
is the incredible job he's done. Just look at the economics of Indiana-Lesley Stahl: Indiana-Donald Trump: --and what's going on.
Lesley Stahl: But what about the chemistry between you two? You don't really know each
other that well. You're -- at least I've read, a very low-key, very religious, you're a brash New
Yorker-Donald Trump: Religious.
Lesley Stahl: Religious?
Donald Trump: Religious-Lesley Stahl: Are you?
Donald Trump: Yea, religious.
Lesley Stahl: --you wouldn't-Donald Trump: Hey, I won the evangelicals. The evangelicals-Lesley Stahl: That doesn't-Mike Pence: You know, nobody thought-Donald Trump: --well, I think it means a lot. I don't think they think I'm perfect, and they
would get up and they would say, "You know, he's not perfect," but-Lesley Stahl: They'd point to the -Donald Trump: --they like me-Lesley Stahl: --divorces-Donald Trump: --but I won-- I won states with evangelicals that nobody thought I'd even
come close to-Lesley Stahl: Well, that's true-Donald Trump:-and I won-Lesley Stahl: --so you didn't (UNINTEL)-Donald Trump: --with landslides-Lesley Stahl: --need him for the evangelicals?
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Donald Trump: I think it helps. But I don't think I needed him, no, because--I won with
evangelicals.
Mike Pence: But I think we have more in common-Lesley Stahl: Yeah, tell me-Mike Pence: --than-Lesley Stahl: --what you think you have in common.
Donald Trump: --what might be immediately obvious.
Lesley Stahl: Besides issues. Values and things like that.
Donald Trump: I think we will have very, very good chemistry. I feel that. And I can feel that
pretty early on. I don't think you need to be with somebody for two years to find that out. My
feeling isLesley Stahl: Your gut feeling.
Donald Trump: I knew him during the primaries, during many trips to Indiana, I'd be with
him. I think we have a great chemistry.
Lesley Stahl: I want to ask you though about something you've said about negative
campaigning.
Donald Trump: Yeah.
Lesley Stahl: You said negative campaigning is wrong, and a campaign ought to demonstrate
the basic decency of the candidate.
Mike Pence: Right.
Lesley Stahl: With that in mind, what do you think about your running mate's campaign and
the tone and the negativity of it?
Mike Pence: I think this is a good man who's been talking about the issues the American
people care about.
Lesley Stahl: But name-calling?
Mike Pence: In that-Lesley Stahl: "Lyin' Ted?"
Mike Pence: --in the essay that I wrote a long time ago, I said campaigns oughta be about
something more important than just one candidate's election. And-- and this campaign and
Donald Trump's candidacy has been about the issues the American people care about.
Lesley Stahl: --but what about-Donald Trump: Lesley, Lesley-Lesley Stahl: --the negative side? He apologized for being a negative-Donald Trump: We're different people. I understand that. I'll give you an example. Hillary
Clinton is a liar. Hillary Clinton-- that was just proven-Lesley Stahl: That's-Donald Trump: --last week.
Lesley Stahl: --that's negative-Donald Trump: Hillary Clinton-Lesley Stahl: By the way -Donald Trump: --you better believe it. Hillary Clinton is a crook.
Lesley Stahl: That's negative--
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Donald Trump: I call her "Crooked Hillary." She's crooked Hillary. He won't-- I-- I don't-- I
didn't ask him to do it, but I don't think he should do it because it's different for him.
Lesley Stahl: But-- he-Donald Trump: He's not that kind of a-Lesley Stahl: He probably-Donald Trump: --person. We're different people-Lesley Stahl: --don't you think he-Donald Trump: --to me she's-Lesley Stahl: --thinks that's-Donald Trump: --Crooked Hillary.
Lesley Stahl: --wrong?
Donald Trump: I don't think he should use that term. I've never said one way or the other.
But to him, I don't think it would sound right, but he will say how dishonest she is by going
over the facts.
Lesley Stahl: But would you go to him-- let's say you won, you're the vice president, your
office is, I assume, down the hall, and you go in and you say, "You know, you shouldn't be
saying-- name-calling." Would you do that? Would you go in and say, "You crossed the line, I
think you should apologize?" Would you do something like that?
Mike Pence: Look, I-Lesley Stahl: He's laughing.
Mike Pence: --it's probably-- it's-- it's probably-Lesley Stahl: It's OK.
Mike Pence: --obvious to people that our styles are different. But I promise you, our vision is
exactly the same.
Lesley Stahl: No, but would you-Mike Pence: And let me be-Lesley Stahl: --will-Mike Pence: --clear-Lesley Stahl: --will you answer that? Would you go in -Mike Pence: Well the-- one of the things I found out about this man is he appreciates candor.
And-Lesley Stahl: So you would go in-Mike Pence: --I-- I-Donald Trump: I'd like him to if he thinks I was doing something wrong-Lesley Stahl: Would you listen-Donald Trump: --just say-Lesley Stahl: --to him-Mike Pence: Yeah.
Lesley Stahl: --if he said you-Donald Trump: Absolutely-Lesley Stahl: --crossed the line.
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Donald Trump: --absolutely. I might not apologize. You know, you said apologize, but-Lesley Stahl: I did say apologize.
Donald Trump: But I might not do that, but I would absolutely want him to come in-- if he
thinks I'm doing something wrong, Mike, I would want him to come in and say, really, you're
doing, you gotta-- and that's OK. I accept that from my consultants and my people and if
Mike came in and told me, you know, "I think you should do this or that-Lesley Stahl: Back off that.
Donald Trump: I would listen and very likely listen to him.
Lesley Stahl: Do you think John McCain is not a hero because he was captured?
Mike Pence: I have a great deal of respect for John McCain, and-Lesley Stahl: Do you think he went too far?
Donald Trump: You could say yes. I-- that's OK.
Donald Trump: That one, you could say yes, I mean, you're not--it's fine - hey, look, I like
John McCain. But we have to take care of our vets.
Lesley Stahl: No, but I wanna know if-Donald Trump: OK, but I'm just-Lesley Stahl:-Mr. Pence would go in and-Donald Trump:-I'm just saying, that's-Lesley Stahl: --say to you-Donald Trump: --why not that many people are that upset-Lesley Stahl: What are you -- what did you say? You know, would you do something like that?
Mike Pence: I promise you that when the circumstances arise where I have a difference on
policy or on presentation, I have-- I can tell you in my heart, I know-- I would have no
hesitation, were I privileged to be vice president, to walk into the president's office, close the
door, and share my heart. And I also know this good man would listen, and has the
leadership qualities to draw from the people around him.
Lesley Stahl: Let's talk about-- some of the issues. Because there seems to be some daylight
between you two, and we can just tick-- go quickly through these. Immigration. Mr. Trump,
you have called for a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States. Do you agree
with that?
Mike Pence: I do. In fact, in Indiana we suspended the Syrian refugee program in the wake of
the terrorist attack. We have no higher priority than the safety and security of the people of
this country, and Donald Trump-Lesley Stahl: Now-Mike Pence: --is right to-Lesley Stahl: --in December-Mike Pence: --articulate that view.
Lesley Stahl: --in December you tweeted, and I quote you, "Calls to ban Muslims from
entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional."
Donald Trump: So you call it territories. OK? We're gonna do territories. We're gonna not let
people come in from Syria that nobody knows who they are. Hillary Clinton wants 550
percent more people to come in than Obama-Lesley Stahl: So you-Donald Trump: --who doesn't know what he's--
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Lesley Stahl: --so you're changing-Donald Trump: --so we're going to-Lesley Stahl: --your position.
Donald Trump: --no, I-- call it whatever you want. We'll call it territories, OK?
Lesley Stahl: So not Muslims?
Donald Trump: You know-- the Constitution -- there's nothing like it. But it doesn't
necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, as a country, OK? And I'll tell you this. Call it
whatever you want, change territories, but there are territories and terror states and terror
nations that we're not gonna allow the people to come into our country. And we're gonna
have a thing called "Extreme vetting." And if people wanna come in, there's gonna be
extreme vetting. We're gonna have extreme vetting. They're gonna come in and we're gonna
know where they came from and who they are.
Mike Pence: You just asked me--if I'm comfortable with that-Mike Pence: --and I am. What-- what Donald-Lesley Stahl: You're on the same-Mike Pence: Which-Lesley Stahl: --page on that?
Mike Pence: --clearly-- clearly this man is not a politician. He doesn't speak like a politician-Lesley Stahl: He's done pretty well.
Mike Pence: --he-- he speaks from his-Mike Pence: --heart-Donald Trump: Is that a good thing? I think that's a good thing.
Mike Pence: --he speaks from his heart. And-Lesley Stahl: Well, I-Donald Trump: Well, I-- I speak from my heart and my brain. Just so we understand.
Mike Pence: Right.
Donald Trump: This is (points to head) maybe more important.
Lesley Stahl: Let's go to trade. You have voted for every trade agreement when you were in
Congress-Mike Pence: I have.
Lesley Stahl: --that came before you. You're supporting the Trans-Pacific partnership that
Mr. Trump says would rape this country. Now, are you gonna be able to go out and
campaign in support of his protectionist positions?
Mike Pence: I support free trade, and so does Donald Trump.
Lesley Stahl: Not really-Donald Trump: I do. I'm free trade, but I wanna make good deals. No, no, I'm all for free-Lesley Stahl: You've talked
Donald Trump: --trade. You-Lesley Stahl: --about-Donald Trump: --know I'm not an isolationist. A lot of people think because I wanna make
good deals--
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Lesley Stahl: You wanna undo-Donald Trump: --these are stupid people-Lesley Stahl: --these-Donald Trump: --wait a minute Lesley, these are stupid people that think that. I wanna make
great deals for our country. We have deals like the deal signed by Bill Clinton, NAFTA, one of
the worst things that ever happened to this country in terms of trade, in terms of economics.
Lesley Stahl: What do you think about NAFTA?
Mike Pence: You're absolutely right. I've supported free trade throughout my career. But-Lesley Stahl: OK.
Mike Pence: --the truth of the matter is NAFTA has provisions in that law that call for it to be
reviewed, that have never been-- never been-- initiated. What-- what I hear Donald Trump
saying is let's-- let's look at these trade agreements and reconsider them and renegotiate
them. And-Lesley Stahl: And you're OK with-Mike Pence: --with regard to-Lesley Stahl: --that?
Mike Pence: --and with regard to other trade agreements, we've talked about this. I-- I really
do believe when the American people elect one of the best negotiators in the world as
president of the United States, we would do well-Donald Trump: We're gonna bring back jobs-Mike Pence: --to negotiate individually with countries.
Donald Trump: We're gonna bring back our jobs, we're gonna bring back our wealth, we're
gonna take care of our people. Very simple.
Lesley Stahl: OK. More issues. Waterboarding. Mr. Trump wants to bring back
waterboarding, and quote, "A hell of a lot more." Are you comfortable with bringing back
waterboarding?
Mike Pence: I don't think we should ever tell our enemy what our tactics are.
Lesley Stahl: But what about that? What-Mike Pence: I don't-Lesley Stahl: --about-- he's publicly-Donald Trump: I like that answer.
Lesley Stahl: --said that-Mike Pence: I don't think we should-- I-- I think-Lesley Stahl: But are you OK with the idea of-Mike Pence: --I think-Lesley Stahl: --waterboarding?
Mike Pence: --I think enhanced interrogation saved lives.
Lesley Stahl: And you're OK with-Mike Pence: I-Lesley Stahl: --that?
Mike Pence: --what I'm OK with-- what I'm OK with is protecting the American people. What
I'm OK with is when people have the intent to come to this country and take American lives,
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that-- that we are-- that we are prepared to do what's necessary to gain the information to
protect the people of this country-Donald Trump: But Lesley, let's step further. We have an enemy, ISIS and others, who chop
off heads, who drown people in steel cages and we can't do waterboarding-Lesley Stahl: OK, but, but why-Donald Trump: OK, they're not playing-Lesley Stahl: --would you use their-Donald Trump: --under -- because you know-Lesley Stahl: --techniques?
Donald Trump: --what, those techniques get information. I don't care what anyone says.
Lesley Stahl: Are you agreeing with him?
Mike Pence: I am-Donald Trump: And get information-Mike Pence: --what I-Donald Trump: --using those things.
Mike Pence: --what I can tell you is enhanced information gleaned information that saved
American lives and, I was informed, prevented incoming terrorist attacks on this country
from being successful. The American people expect the president of the United States to be
prepared to support action to protect the people of this nation, and I know Donald Trump
will.
Lesley Stahl: Have you answered me?
Mike Pence: I have.
Lesley Stahl: Let's talk about the convention. You're a showman. What are you going to do to
keep it from being a snooze-o-rama, as some have happened.
Donald Trump: Well, I think we're gonna have an exciting time. We've got some wonderful
speakers. We have some very talented people. My family's gonna speak.
Lesley Stahl: Worried about violence outside? This is an open-carry state. People can carry
guns. There'll be demonstrators. They've already said they're going to carry assault rifles.
Are you worried? And would you call on people not to carry their guns?
Donald Trump: I have great faith in law enforcement. If they don't want to take their guns, I
think that's fantastic. But I have great confidence in law enforcement. The police like Donald
Trump. It's law and order. And I have great confidence that they will do a great job.
Lesley Stahl: There's no question in anybody's mind that you want to win this election. I
don't think anyone would doubt that. But what about being president? Do you really want to
be president of the United States?
Donald Trump: I want to make America great again. Honestly. I want to make Am-- I'm not
doing this because-- I'm sacrificing tremendous things. I could be doing other things. It's
lovely to sit down with you and be grilled. That's okay. But I could be doing other things right
now. And I have some of the greatest properties in the world. I could be out there-Lesley Stahl: Would you rather be out there?
Donald Trump: I tell you what. I've really enjoyed this process. I've gotten to know the people
of this country. I've gotten to know places that I didn't know, that I read about, but I didn't
know. I've also gotten to see the problems. And it's a movement.
Donald Trump: Now, when you ask me the question, do I wanna be?
Lesley Stahl: Yeah.
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Donald Trump: I wanna be for one reason. I wanna make America safe again, and I wanna
make America great again. That's why I'm doing this. And I love it.
Lesley Stahl: And you wanna govern? I mean it-Donald Trump: I do wanna govern.
Lesley Stahl: It is different-Donald Trump: I do-Lesley Stahl: --building a movement-Donald Trump: I govern my-- I-Lesley Stahl: -and than-- going in there with the nitty gritty and-Lesley Stahl: --all that tough decision making.
Donald Trump: Sure. No, no I wanna govern
Lesley Stahl: OK, this is my absolute final question.
Donald Trump: OK.
Lesley Stahl: You're not known to be a humble man. But I wonder-Donald Trump: I think I am, actually humble. I think I'm much more humble than you would
understand.
Lesley Stahl: As you think about-- prospect of running this country in these tough times
where the world is spinning apart-- are you awed? Are you intimidated? Are you humbled by
the enormity of this?
Donald Trump: You just said it best.
Mike Pence: Mmm.
Donald Trump: In a world that's spinning apart. That's what I'm thinking of. I'm not thinking
of, "Oh gee, isn't this wonderful? Isn't this great what I've done?" I've had people that said, "It
doesn't matter if you win or lose, what you've done has never been done before. You're
gonna go down in the history books." You know what I say to 'em?" I say, "You're wrong." I
will consider it, 'cause I funded my own primaries, I'm funding now a lot of this campaign.
I'm putting in, you know-- I've spent $55 million in the primaries. I'm spending a fortunate
now. I'll tell you, it is spinning. Our world is spinning out of control. Our country's spinning
out of control. That's what I think about. And I'll stop that.
Lesley Stahl: Not-- humbled or-- awe.
Mike Pence: I can say to 'ya-- what-Lesley Stahl: Go ahead.
Mike Pence: Talking with him in private settings, I love the words you used because this man
is awed with the American people, and he is not intimidated by the world. And Donald
Trump, this good man, I believe, will be a great president of the United States.
Donald Trump: I love what he just said.
© 2016 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Lesley Stahl
One of America's most recognized and experienced broadcast journalists, Lesley Stahl
has been a 60 Minutes correspondent since 1991.
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ALBO LANGSAL July 30, 2016 3:3PM
We learned three things from Stahl's supine "interview" with Trump.
(1) -- CBS is not the BBC -- it is driven by need for ratings and not the pursuit of objective truth.
(2) -- '60 Minutes" -- a mere shadow of its former self --is no match for hard investigative programs like
"BBC Panorama" or "BBC NewsHour"
and ... (3) -- Lesley Stahl probably induces convulsions in the corpses of past 60-Minutes greats such as
Mike Wallace, Ed Bradley, and Bob Simon.
She needs to take a week off to watch all reporting by Christiane Amanpour -- well-prepared, incisive,
and tenacious.
At the very least Stahl should google "Trump Iraq War" for her next interview with Drumpf.
---1 LIKE /
REPLY
AGIBSON95 July 25, 2016 7:7PM
Why isn't 60 minutes covering Gary Johnson and Bill Weld? You have the Democratic and Republican
Ticket, but no Libertarian ticket. People dislike Trump and Clinton so much, but the media is acting like
they will be the only 2 choices on every ballot. Please take the lead and start covering Gary and Bill like
you do the other candidates.
LIKE /
REPLY
Recommended
MOL3898 July 24, 2016 7:7AM
Lesley Stahl could not stop herself from asking the same question 20 difference ways!! Just like a
parrot! Boots on the Ground? Boots on the Ground?? Just like George bush, just like George bush, she
said!! At first I was upset that Trump did not call all her out on this. But after I watch this a second
time. Trump really ran the board and come out with new ideas and answers to the old
mainstream media on how they treat the GOP. He did very well against her. Stayed on target and made
her look so bias, which she is!
LIKE /
REPLY
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-trump-pence-republican-ticket/
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The Republican Ticket: Trump and Pence - CBS News
SUNNYDAYSAM July 27, 2016 5:5AM
@mol3898 Trump avoided the questions
1 LIKE /
REPLY
Page 15 of 16
Murder charge after funeral home staffe
something unusual, call police
"Brightest Flashlight Ever" is Selling Lik
x700 Tactical Flashlight
WILLKX November 11, 2016 1:1PM
@mol3898 Exactly.
LIKE /
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Chicago man who beat murder case kil
leaving jail
RADHA.MA July 22, 2016 11:11AM
Leslie Stahl is amazing in that she held a straight face through the interview! These guys are
unbelievable, and it is hard to believe America even takes these guys seriously - they are utter
buffoonery. I'm afraid for America and these guys leading the world into WW III. Praying for the world,
and grateful to be living above the 49th.
2 LIKE /
REPLY
RADHA.MA July 24, 2016 3:3PM
Would 60 minutes please investigate Trump's rape cases?
http://fusion.net/story/328522/donald-trump-accused-rape-sexual-assault/
LIKE /
REPLY
CAITLIN SLATER July 20, 2016 11:11PM
I am 20 years old. A female. A college student. This is my first election I will get the opportunity to vote.
This interview makes me proud to say that I will vote for Donald Trump and Mike Pence. If only people
would be more optimistic while watching interviews like this. If only our country could be more positive
when watching, hearing and seeing how the media portrays Trump and Pence then maybe our nation
would really come together. Open-mindedness creates space for unity. Close-mindedness creates
separation. God Bless.
1 LIKE /
REPLY
MOL3898 July 24, 2016 7:7AM
@Caitlin Slater We need more people like you!
LIKE /
REPLY
WILLKX November 11, 2016 1:1PM
@Caitlin Slater How do you you get through class and still be able to think? Good job.
LIKE /
REPLY
MADAGASCANLEMUR July 20, 2016 0:12AM
Lesley Stahl should never engage in challenging interviews. This was complete off-the-rails train wreck.
She asked nothing. Trump only blew his own horn but doesn't have any idea of what he's doing. Mike
Pence is supposed to be an experienced politician, having served both in the U.S. House and as governor
of Indiana. But he seems only to have nodded blankly and kissed Trump's a$$.
LIKE /
REPLY
AUGUSTINAPRIEL July 20, 2016 1:1AM
@madagascanlemur Interesting - by the way, this system will not allow me to type other than
all caps, so I'm not shouting - I watched and thought Lesley did a very good job. Mike made
clear his positions, and both he and trump made their plans and positions clear. I find it
interesting that we got different impressions. That's what makes horse races and elections.
LIKE /
REPLY
RALYNS July 19, 2016 9:9PM
I think we are totally screwed - we have evil vs evil yet again and it seems to get worse every election
year... Time to get rid of the death grip that the GOP and Dems have on our country before they totally
destroy our country and freedom. Tyrant vs tyrant with Trump only being a little less evil is not a
choice that should be forced on us... but, they have it all rigged so that only the GOP or Dems can win.
God help us all...
LIKE /
REPLY
60 MINUTES ALL ACCESS
ATOM4 July 19, 2016 0:12PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-trump-pence-republican-ticket/
3/12/2017
The Republican Ticket: Trump and Pence - CBS News
Page 16 of 16
I think we just got a demonstration of how little Trump is analyzing the world, the prospects of another
war, the effects of his attacks on EU and NATO, very little to nothing on american economy, and all
through the interview: How his personality may do the job on a building site, board room or on a tv
screen in the late hours - as on a stage. But how can this man be able to walk the walk with all the real
tigers in politics, abroad and in USA? He wouldn't fit in their shoes.
Of course Putin wants this man, as he says when he tells he likes him. He can be so easily handled. That
is what this interview shows.
1 LIKE /
REPLY
DONT-POKE-THE-BEAR July 19, 2016 5:5AM
They make an excellent team.... I love the fact that Trump is NOT political correct, and Pence is very
fluent in the political correctness, they speak both spectrums of the languages but on the same track.
They present the same message. I believe the chemistry will work successfully, since they both project
Americans first. It's clear that The people are very paranoid to choose who will be our next POTUS. I am
confident Trump will do a great job... His reasoning on his VP pick is truly profound, not even superficial
on his VP pick. Pence took Indiana to a new level of success.... he impressed me after reading all he did
for Indiana state. This will work.
1 LIKE /
REPLY
ALBO LANGSAL July 30, 2016 3:3PM
@Dont-poke-the-Bear
Are we looking at the same reality?
LIKE /
REPLY
SALLYINCHICAGO July 19, 2016 5:5AM
Every potential voter should be mandated to watch this interview.
4 LIKE /
REPLY
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60 MINUTES ALL ACCESS
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3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 12
nbcnews.com
Page 1 of 29
MEET THE PRESS JUL 24 2016, 11:47 AM ET
Meet the Press - July 24, 2016
Meet the Press - July 24, 2016
CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, the Democratic National Convention gets underway here in Philadelphia, after a raucous and unpredictable Republican
convention. That ended with the nomination of Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP:
I am with you, I will fight for you, and I will win for you.
CHUCK TODD:
This morning, my sit-down with Donald Trump on his convention speech.
DONALD TRUMP:
The only negative reviews were a little dark.
CHUCK TODD:
On whether he's backing off on his Muslim band.
DONALD TRUMP:
I actually don't think it's a pull-back. In fact, you could say it's an expansion.
CHUCK TODD:
And on Hillary Clinton's choice of Tim Kaine.
DONALD TRUMP:
Tim Kaine was a slap in the face to Bernie Sanders.
CHUCK TODD:
Plus Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine hit the road in Florida.
HILLARY CLINTON:
Tim Kaine is everything Donald Trump and Mike Pence are not.
CHUCK TODD:
But some Bernie Sanders supporters are criticizing the Kaine pick as a sellout to moderates. I'll talk to Sanders and get his reaction to
that and to the DNC Wikileaks e-mail release. Joining me for insight and analysis are MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, former chairman of
the RNC, Michael Steele, NBC News Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent, Andrea Mitchell, and host of Hardball and Philadelphia
hometown boy, Chris Matthews. Trump, Sanders and reactions to the new Democratic ticket. Welcome to Sunday, in a special edition
of Meet the Press at the Democratic National Convention.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. We are at the Wells Fargo Center here in South Philadelphia, home of the NBA 76ers and the NHL Broad
Street Bullies, the Fliers. Democrats have begun to arrive, along with a pretty bad heat wave. And beginning tomorrow, they will gather
to officially nominate Hillary Clinton as their presidential candidate.
http://www.nbcnews.com/pages/print
3/12/2017
nbcnews.com
Page 2 of 29
Yesterday in Miami, Clinton was joined by her new running mate, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, in an upbeat event that was notable
simply by the contrast to the disorganized rollout of Donald Trump's running mate a week earlier, Mike Pence.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEN. TIM KAINE:
Hillary Clinton, she doesn't insult people, she listens to them. What a novel concept, right? She doesn't trash our allies, she respects
them. And she'll always have our backs, that is something I am rock solid sure of.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
We will get to reaction to the new Democratic ticket later in the show, including my interview with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont
in a moment. But first, we're going to talk also about Sanders, about those Wikileaks emails and what they may say about DNC
favoritism towards Hillary Clinton. But we begin with the man who has now taken control of the Republican Party. It's nominee Donald
Trump.
I traveled to Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, sort of his weekend getaway, last night for a face-to-face interview
since dropping the word "presumptive," it's his first one, from the nominee title. We touched on so much: Tim Kaine, Trump's tax
returns, his proposed restrictions on Muslim immigration and why he says he alone can fix the country's problems. But I began by
asking him how it feels to be the Republican nominee for president of the United States.
(BEGIN TAPE)
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, it really feels great. And we really have a very unified party, other than a very small group of people that, frankly, lost. And we
have a very unified party. You saw that the other night with the love in the room, and the enthusiasm in the room. The enthusiasm,
there are people that say they have never seen anything like what was going on in that room, especially Thursday night.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me tell you, you bring up Thursday night, I've got to ask you about your entrance. Before we get serious here. That Monday night
entrance was something else. I know you've gotten a lot of feedback on it. How'd you come up with it?
DONALD TRUMP:
I think I'm a little bit lucky, and a couple of people had that idea and I went along with the idea. And everything just worked right. And it
was so good that they wanted to do it on Thursday night. I said, "Never in a million years, because you'll never get it that way again."
CHUCK TODD:
I don't think I've seen that even on WWE.
DONALD TRUMP:
Yeah, I know. Well, Vince is a good friend of mine. He called me, he said, "That was a very, very good entrance." But I didn't want to
do it a second time, because, you know, it never works out the second time.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let's go into the speech. I want to put some meat on the bones. But first, let's talk about, you've seen some of the positive
reviews, some of the negative reviews. Some of the negative has been that it was a little dark-DONALD TRUMP:
That's the only thing that--
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CHUCK TODD:
--that there wasn't enough optimism in it. What would you say? It's not Morning in America.
DONALD TRUMP:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
What would you say to that?
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I think the only negativity, and, you know, the hate, I call them the haters, and that's fine. But the only negative reviews were, "A
little dark." And the following day, they had another attack, and then today you see what happened in Afghanistan with many, many
people killed.
They have no idea how many, so many killed. Yesterday it was Munich. And you know, I know they're saying, "Maybe it wasn't
terrorism. Maybe it was just a crazy guy." But in the meantime he's screaming, "Allahu Akbar," as he's shooting people, so, you know,
we'll see how that turns out. And all of a sudden people are saying, "Maybe it wasn't dark at all." But the only thing that some people
said, "It was a little dark. It was a little bit tough."
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think it was a little dark?
DONALD TRUMP:
No, oh, I thought it was very optimistic. To me, it was an optimistic speech, because-CHUCK TODD:
What makes it optimistic in your view?
DONALD TRUMP:
Because we're going to stop the problems. We're going to stop the problems. In other words, sure, I talk about the problems, but we're
going to solve the problems.
CHUCK TODD:
One of the phrases you used, "I alone can fix it." And to some people, that sounded almost too strong-mannish for them. Do you
understand that criticism and what do you make of it?
DONALD TRUMP:
I'll tell you, part of it was I'm comparing myself to Hillary. And we know Hillary, and we look at her record. Her record has been a
disaster. And I am running against Hillary. It's not like I'm running against the rest of the world. I know people that are very, very
capable that could do a very good job, but they could never get elected.
I can tell you right now. I can give you ten names of people that would do an extraordinary job, but there's no way they could ever get
elected. They wouldn't know where to begin. It wouldn't be for them. But for governing, they would be good. I'm running and, you
know, against one person.
CHUCK TODD:
You said there would be consequences for any company that tried to move a factory out. What-DONALD TRUMP:
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Absolutely, so simple-CHUCK TODD:
--what is the consequence? Let's start with, you bring up Carrier a lot.
DONALD TRUMP:
It's so simple-(OVERTALK)
CHUCK TODD:
Right, I understand that. But explain the consequences-DONALD TRUMP:
Okay, here's the consequence-CHUCK TODD:
What would it be?
DONALD TRUMP:
So Carrier comes in, they announce they're moving to Mexico, they fire all their people in Indiana, and they say, "Hi, well, here we are
in Mexico, you know, enjoy your plant, enjoy the rest of your life," and you hire people from Mexico, okay? Now they make their
product and they put it into the United States.
Well, we will have a very strong border, by the way, but they put it into the United States and we don't charge them tax. There will be a
tax to be paid. If they're going to fire all their people, move their plant to Mexico, build air conditioners, and think they're going to sell
those air conditioners to the United States, there's going to be a tax.
CHUCK TODD:
What kind of tax are you thinking?
DONALD TRUMP:
It could be 25 percent. It could be 35 percent. It could be 15 percent. I haven't determined. And it could be different for different
companies. We have been working on trying to stop this government, because we don't know what we're doing. And not only Obama,
they've been trying to stop this from before Obama. But they don't know. You know, they've done, they've tried lower interest loans,
they've tried zero interest loans, these guys-CHUCK TODD:
Well, some of these things aren't going to get through the World Trade Organization. There's-DONALD TRUMP:
It doesn't matter. Then we're going to renegotiate or we're going to pull out. These trade deals are a disaster, Chuck. World Trade
Organization is a disaster.
CHUCK TODD:
You know the concern on some of this-DONALD TRUMP:
NAFTA is a disaster--
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CHUCK TODD:
-- is that it would rattle the world economy. Look what Brexit did to the world economy. Investors got rattled.
DONALD TRUMP:
What did it do? What did it do?
CHUCK TODD:
Now you-DONALD TRUMP:
The stock market's higher now than it was when it happened. And by the way, I'm the only one of all of these people at the higher level
of the wonderful world of politics, I'm the only one that said, "Brexit's going to happen." Remember, I was asked the question. I said,
"Yeah, I think they're going to approve it. I think they want independence. I don't think they want people pouring into their country." And
I was-CHUCK TODD:
You're not worried about, you think a fractured Europe is good for America?
DONALD TRUMP:
No, no. But we're spending a lot of money on Europe. Don't forget, Europe got together, why, primarily did they get together? So that
they could beat the United States when it comes to making money, in other words, foreign trade-CHUCK TODD:
Economic-DONALD TRUMP:
Okay? And now we talk about Europe like it's so wonderful. Hey, I love Europe, I have property in Europe. I'm just saying, the reason
that it got together was like a consortium so that it could compete with the United States-CHUCK TODD:
So what you're saying is all this stuff is good for America, even if it's not good for Europe?
DONALD TRUMP:
Look, you take a look at Airbus. They make more planes now than Boeing, okay? They got together, all of these countries got together
so that they could beat the United States. Okay, so we're in competition. So you know, we're in competition in one way, we're helping
them in another way. It is so messed up.
CHUCK TODD:
The Muslim ban. I think you've pulled back from it, but you tell me.
(BEGIN TAPE)
DONALD TRUMP:
We must immediately suspend immigration from any nation that has been compromised by terrorism until such time as proven vetting
mechanisms have been put in place.
(END TAPE)
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This feels like a slight rollback-DONALD TRUMP:
I don't think that's-CHUCK TODD:
Should it be interpreted-DONALD TRUMP:
I don't think so. I actually don't think it's a rollback. In fact, you could say it's an expansion. I'm looking now at territories. People were
so upset when I used the word Muslim. Oh, you can't use the word Muslim. Remember this. And I'm okay with that, because I'm
talking territory instead of Muslim.
But just remember this: Our Constitution is great. But it doesn't necessarily give us the right to commit suicide, okay? Now, we have a
religious, you know, everybody wants to be protected. And that's great. And that's the wonderful part of our Constitution. I view it
differently.
Why are we committing suicide? Why are we doing that? But you know what? I live with our Constitution. I love our Constitution. I
cherish our Constitution. We're making it territorial. We have nations and we'll come out, I'm going to be coming out over the next few
weeks with a number of the places. And it's very complex-CHUCK TODD:
Well I was just going to say-DONALD TRUMP:
--we have problems in Germany and we have problems with France-CHUCK TODD:
I was just going to ask that. Will this limitt-DONALD TRUMP:
You know, so it's not just the countries with-CHUCK TODD:
--would this limit immigration from France?
DONALD TRUMP:
What we're going to have is a thing called-CHUCK TODD:
They've been compromised by terrorism.
DONALD TRUMP:
They have totally been. And you know why? It's their own fault. Because they allowed people to come into their territory-CHUCK TODD:
So you would toughen up. You're basically saying, "Hey, if the French want to come over here, you've got to go through an extra
check."
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DONALD TRUMP:
It's their own fault, because they've allowed people over years to come into their territory. And that's why Brexit happened, okay?
Because the U.K. is saying, "We're tired of this stuff, what's going on, we're tired of." But listen to this-CHUCK TODD:
You could get to the point where you're not allowing a lot of people to come into this country from a lot of places.
DONALD TRUMP:
Maybe we get to that point. Chuck, look what's happening. Look at what just took place in Afghanistan, where they blow up a whole
shopping center with people, they have no idea how many people were even killed. Happened today. So we have to be smart and we
have to be vigilant and we have to be strong. We can't be the stupid people-CHUCK TODD:
So France, Germany, Spain-DONALD TRUMP:
Here's my plan-CHUCK TODD:
--places that have been compromised?
DONALD TRUMP:
--here is what I want: Extreme vetting. Tough word. Extreme vetting.
CHUCK TODD:
What does that look like?
DONALD TRUMP:
Tough. We're going to have tough standards. And if a person can't prove-CHUCK TODD:
Give me one.
DONALD TRUMP:
--that they're from an area, and if a person can't prove what they have to be able to prove, they're not coming into this country. And I
would stop the Syrian migration and the Syrian from coming into this country in two seconds. Hillary Clinton wants to take 550 percent
more people coming in from that area than Barack Obama. I think she's crazy. I think she's crazy. We have no idea who these people
are for the most part, and you know, because I've seen them on different shows-CHUCK TODD:
All right.
DONALD TRUMP:
--but more importantly, I've read about it. I study it. There is no way that you can vet some of these people. There is no way. Law
enforcement officials, I've had them in my office. I've talked to them.
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You realize some of these folks have nowhere to go? They're truly victims of this civil war, what do you do with them?
DONALD TRUMP:
We will help them and we will build safe havens over in Syria, and we will get Gulf States-CHUCK TODD:
We, the United States are going to build these safe havens?
DONALD TRUMP:
We, the United States, we'll get Gulf States to pay for it, because we right now, we're going to have $21 trillion very soon, trillion, in
debt. We will do safe havens and safe zones in Syria and we will get nations that are so wealthy that are not doing anything. They're
not doing much. They have nothing but money. And you know who I'm talking about, the Gulf States. And we will get them to pay for it.
We would lead it. I don't want to pay because our country is going down the tubes. We owe too much money.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Let me move to something with NATO. Mitch McConnell said this about your NATO remarks in the New York Times. He said
it was a rookie mistake, and that once you, let me finish the comment here. "It's a rookie mistake, and it proves that Trump needs
people like us around to help steer him in the right direction on some basic things."
DONALD TRUMP:
He's 100 percent wrong. Okay? He's 100 percent wrong if he said that. I didn't hear he said that-CHUCK TODD:
He did say it.
DONALD TRUMP:
Okay, fine, fine-CHUCK TODD:
New York Times-DONALD TRUMP:
If he said that, he's 100 percent wrong. And frankly it's sad. We have NATO, and we have many countries that aren't paying for what
they're supposed to be paying, which is already too little, but they're not paying anyway. And we're giving them a free ride or giving
them a ride where they owe us tremendous amounts of money. And they have the money. But they're not paying it. You know why?
Because they think we're stupid-CHUCK TODD:
So Estonia is paying, and if they get invaded by Russia, you're there?
DONALD TRUMP:
I feel differently. I feel very differently-CHUCK TODD:
But if a country's not doing -- Britain hasn't done the two percent.
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We have countries that aren't paying. Now, this goes beyond NATO, because we take care of-- we take care of Japan, we take care of
Germany, we take care of South Korea, we take care of Saudi Arabia, and we lose on everything. We lose on everything. If Mitch
McConnell says that, then he's wrong.
So all I'm saying is they have to pay. Now, a country gets invaded, they haven't paid, everyone says, "Oh, but we have a treaty." Well,
they have a treaty too. They're supposed to be paying. We have countries within NATO that are taking advantage of us. With me, I
believe they're going to pay. And when they pay, I'm a big believer in NATO.
But if they don't pay, we don't have, you know, Chuck, this isn't 40 years ago. This isn't 50 years ago. It's not 30 years ago. We're a
different country today. We're much weaker, our military is depleted, we owe tremendous amounts of money. We have to be
reimbursed. We can no longer be the stupid country.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, what Donald Trump says about David Duke, Bernie Sanders, and whether he really plans to spend millions for
the sole purpose of defeating Ted Cruz and John Kasich. Sanders about Trump and about his reaction to Tim Kaine becoming Hillary
Clinton's running mate. We're in Philadelphia, site of the Democratic National Convention. Stay with us.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Such a beautiful city here. Welcome back. More now of my interview with Donald Trump at The Trump National Golf Club in
Bedminster, New Jersey. And since we had a limited amount of time, I ended up speeding things up by asking Trump for some quick
reaction to simply some very prominent names in the news.
(BEGIN TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
I'm just going to literally throw out a name and you'll know the question I'm asking. Bernie Sanders.
DONALD TRUMP:
Great respect for what he's done. He is being taken advantage of, and frankly, the system was rigged, and I'm the first one to say it
was rigged against him. And by the way-CHUCK TODD:
You took after him. You took after him. You said for supporting Hillary Clinton, you think he needs to-DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I'm not a fan of Bernie Sanders. But I am a fan of one thing that he talks about: Trade. He is the only one on that side that
understands trade. Now, he can't do anything about it because that's not his thing. But he has been gamed. He has been, it's a rigged
system against him. And what happened with the choice of Tim Kaine was a slap in the face to Bernie Sanders and everybody. I was
shocked. I love it from my standpoint, I love-CHUCK TODD:
Why do you love the Kaine pick?
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, first of all, he took over $160,000 of gifts. And they said, "Well, they weren't really gifts, they were suits and trips and lots of
different things," all for 160-CHUCK TODD:
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Legal, legal in the state of Virginia.
DONALD TRUMP:
Bob McDonnell-- I believe it was Bob McDonnell, in the meantime, he had to go to the United States Supreme Court to get out of going
to jail-CHUCK TODD:
Well, they proved to quid pro quo-DONALD TRUMP:
--for taking a fraction of what-CHUCK TODD:
They proved quid pro quo on that one.
DONALD TRUMP:
Excuse me, Bob McDonnell took a fraction of what Kaine took. And I think, to me, it's a big problem. Now, how do you take all these
gifts? Hundreds of thousands of dollars. The other thing about him, he's bought and owned by the banks. And the third thing, he's in
favor of TPP and every other trade deal that he's ever looked at. And that means he wants people not to work.
Now, he's going to change his tune. And I understand he's now going to say, "I'm against TPP." Hillary Clinton was totally in favor of
TPP, which is the job killer, right? So was he. When she watched me on your show and other shows, all of a sudden she changed,
because she knows she can't win that in a debate.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Ted Cruz, I'm going to amend it, are you really going to fund a super PAC to help defeat him-DONALD TRUMP:
Well, it's not the number one thing on my mind. Look, what's on my mind is beating Hillary Clinton. What's on my mind is winning for
the Republican Party. With that being said, yeah, I'll probably do a super PAC, you know, when they run against Kasich, for $10 million
to $20 million, against Ted Cruz. And maybe one other person that I'm thinking about-CHUCK TODD:
Who's that other one person?
DONALD TRUMP:
--but I won't tell you that. I mean, he's actually such a small person, I hate to give him the publicity. But yes, I will probably do that at
the appropriate at time. But I'm not going to do that until-CHUCK TODD:
Oh, give me the small person here.
DONALD TRUMP:
No, no, don't worry about it. We'll give it to you another time.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let me ask you about this one. David Duke announced his Senate candidacy claiming your agenda for his own, or essentially
saying, "Glad that you spoke out."
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DONALD TRUMP:
Are you ready, before you ask the question?
CHUCK TODD:
Newt Gingrich said, "Every Republican should repudiate this guy no matter what it takes"-DONALD TRUMP:
I did. And I do. Are you ready? I want-CHUCK TODD:
Would you support a Democrat over David Duke if that was what was necessary to defeat him?
DONALD TRUMP:
I guess, depending on who the Democrat, but the answer would be yes. Look, the answer is, as quick as you can say it. In fact, I went
to answer you before you-DONALD TRUMP:
Because last time with another person in your position, I did it very quickly. And they said, "He didn't do it fast enough." Rebuked. Is
that okay? Rebuked, done-CHUCK TODD:
Rebuked, done. Okay. Tax returns. A lot of conspiracy theories are being out there about why-- what's in your tax returns. You would
get rid of all these conspiracy theories tomorrow-DONALD TRUMP:
Let me tell you-CHUCK TODD:
Probably make people look silly-DONALD TRUMP:
Let me tell you. Let me give you a little lesson on tax returns. First of all, you don't learn very much from a tax return. I put in to the
federal elections group 100 and some-odd pages of my financials. It showed, as you know, that I'm much wealthier than anybody even
understood, okay? Tremendous cash, tremendous assets, tremendous all that stuff. Okay, that's it. I'm going through a routine audit.
Just a routine audit, and I've had it for I think 14 years, 13 years-CHUCK TODD:
Why?
DONALD TRUMP:
Every year they audit me. It's routine government. I would never give my tax returns until the audit's finished. But remember this: Mitt
Romney, four years ago, was under tremendous pressure to give his tax returns. And he held it and held it and held it, and he fought it,
and he, you know, he didn't do too well, okay? But he didn't do anything wrong on his taxes. When he gave his tax returns, people
forget, not now. He gave them in September, before the election-CHUCK TODD:
So you still might release them--
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DONALD TRUMP:
No, wait a minute, wait a minute. When he did, and his tax returns are a tiny peanut compared to mine, they went through his tax
returns. And they found one little sentence, another little-- there was nothing wrong. And they made him look bad. In fact I think he lost
his election because of that.
CHUCK TODD:
Because of the tax returns?
DONALD TRUMP:
I think he lost. And I'll tell you why: He didn't do anything wrong. Mitt Romney did nothing wrong. But they would take out of, his
weren't too big. Have you ever seen mine with the picture, they're like this high?
CHUCK TODD:
I have seen that picture, yes.
DONALD TRUMP:
Okay, so they took his tax return and they found a couple of little things. Nothing wrong, just standard. And they made him look very
bad, very unfair. But with all that said, I'd love to give them, but I'm under audit. When the audit's finished I'll give them.
CHUCK TODD:
Finally, Roger Ailes. Is he helping you? Is he advising you?
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I don't want to comment. But he's been a friend of mine for a long time, and I can tell you that some of the women that are
complaining, I know how much he's helped them. And even recently, and when they write books that are fairly recently released, and
they say wonderful things about him.
And now all of a sudden they're saying these horrible things about him. It's very sad. Because he's a very good person. I've always
found him to be just a very, very good person. And by the way, a very, very talented person. Look what he's done. So I feel very badly.
But a lot of people are thinking he's going to run my campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, well-DONALD TRUMP:
My campaign's doing pretty well.
CHUCK TODD:
Mr. Trump, until we meet again.
DONALD TRUMP:
Thank you very much-CHUCK TODD:
Thank you for your time, sir, appreciate it.
(END TAPE)
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Up next, the man who had hoped to be the candidate being nominated by Democrats right here in Philadelphia this week, Senator
Bernie Sanders of Vermont. What does he think of those leaked DNC e-mails? We'll get his first comments since it happened. We're
going to be right back in just a minute.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
(BEGIN TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Tremendous shots there of a beautiful city. Welcome back. It's not the kind of thing you want happening days before your convention.
This weekend, Wikileaks released nearly 20,000 emails sent and received by members of the Democratic National Committee, some
of which seem to confirm what a lot of people had suspected, that the DNC was playing favorites with Hillary Clinton over Bernie
Sanders.
It appears Wikileaks either stole these emails or got them from a source. Remember, the DNC was hacked a few months ago. Among
the emails was one from the DNC's Chief Financial Officer Brad Marshall that was looking ahead to the contests in Kentucky and West
Virginia in early May. While not mentioning Sanders specifically by name, the email appeared to question Sanders' faith.
He wrote this, quote: "Does he believe in a god? I think I read he is an atheist. This could make several points difference with my
peeps. My Southern Baptist peeps would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist." Well, Sanders has long believed that
DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz was in Clinton's corner the whole campaign. Well, he joins me now. Senator Sanders,
welcome back to Meet the Press.
And I should note that you talked about your belief in God last fall in an interview, I think, with your hometown paper there, so want to
get that out of the way. So let me start with this question questioning your faith. Brad Marshall apologized on Facebook. Has anyone
apologized to you personally? And what is your response to this entire discussion?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, no, nobody has apologized to me. And as you just mentioned, this really does not come as a shock to me or my supporters.
There is no question but the DNC was on Secretary Clinton's side from day one. We all know that. And I think, as I have said a long
time ago, that the time is now for Debbie Wasserman Schultz to step aside, not only for these issues.
We need a Democratic Party that is open, that's going to bring young people and working people into it, that is going to stand up and
take on the big money interests and fight for working families. I don't think Debbie has been that type of leader. So I would hope, and I
said this many months ago, that she would-CHUCK TODD:
Right.
BERNIE SANDERS:
--step aside, we would have new leadership.
CHUCK TODD:
And do you think it needs to happen now, today, before the start of the convention?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well-CHUCK TODD:
Would that help calm some of your supporters down?
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Well, I think what is already happening is that it's clear she is not going to be speaking to the convention. That is the right thing. I think
right now what we have got to focus on as Democrats is defeating perhaps the worst Republican candidate that I have seen in my
lifetime. Donald Trump would be a disaster for this country. He must be defeated.
We've got to elect Secretary Clinton on every single issue: fighting for the middle class on health care, on climate change, is a far, far
superior candidate to Trump. That's where I think the focus has got to be.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe that the DNC's apparent favoritism cost you this race?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I think you-- there are a lot of reasons why one loses. We started off 50 points behind Secretary Clinton. We had the opposition
of virtually the entire Democratic leadership in every state in this country. And by the way, in terms of media, we did not get the kind of
media attention that somebody like a Donald Trump got, because media is not necessarily interested in the issues facing the middle
class, more interested in attacks in personality. So I think there were a lot of reasons.
But I will tell you this, Chuck, from the bottom of my heart, I am extraordinarily proud of the campaign that we ran. The issues that we
raised, the fact that we got 13 million Americans to vote for a political revolution. People who know the economy is rigged in favor of
big money, people who know that our middle class continues to decline and we have to go outside of establishment politics and
economics, people who know that we need to reform a broken criminal justice system and we need comprehensive immigration
reform.
The people-- what we did in our campaign is bring people together to say, "You know what? This country, our government, belongs to
all of us and not just a few." So I am very proud of the campaign we ran and the supporters that came on board.
CHUCK TODD:
So just to sum up here, these leaks, these emails, it hasn't given you any pause about your support for Hillary Clinton?
BERNIE SANDERS:
No, no, no. We are going to do everything that we can to protect working families in this country. And again, Chuck, I know media is
not necessarily focused on these things. But what a campaign is about is not Hillary Clinton, it's not Donald Trump. It is the people of
this country, people who are working longer hours for lower wages, people who do not have health care or are underinsured.
Hillary Clinton and I have worked together on a higher education proposal which will guarantee free tuition in public colleges and
universities for every family in this country making $125,000 a year or less. We're going to fight for paid family and medical leave.
Those are the issues that the American people want to hear discussed, and I'm going to go around the country discussing them and
making sure that Hillary Clinton is elected president.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, The Green Party presumptive nominee, Jill Stein, put out a release yesterday about the emails. And she said this:
"Democratic Party elites have been caught red-handed, sabotaging a grassroots campaign that tried to bring huge numbers of young
people, independents and non-voters into their party. Instead, they have shown exactly why America needs a new major party, a truly
democratic party for the people." Are you going to urge your supporters not to support Jill Stein and try to thwart her efforts to recruit
your supporters?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, you know, let me just say this. As the longest serving Independent in the history of the United States Congress, as somebody
who came into office by defeating an incumbent Democratic mayor in Burlington, Vermont, I know something about third party politics.
And I respect Jill.
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But right now, the focus, to my mind, is to make sure that Donald Trump does not become president of the United States. I think by
temperament he is unqualified to be president. I think his views-- you have a guy who's running for president who rejects science,
doesn't even believe climate change is real, let alone wants to do something about it, wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax
breaks to the top two-tenths of one percent.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you-BERNIE SANDERS:
So my job right now is to see that Donald Trump is defeated, Hillary Clinton is elected.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, he makes a big deal out of the fact that you and he agree on one big issue, and that is trade deals, that these trade deals
have been bad for the country. And he basically says that Clinton and Kaine, as a ticket, aren't-- that their opposition, for instance, the
TPP as sort of Johnny-come-lately, that it can't be trusted, and that Sanders supporters should support Trump if they care about trade.
What do you say to that?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I think in terms of who can be trusted, I think the evidence is clear that there has been no candidate that I have ever seen who
lies more often than does Donald Trump. I mean and that's just not me saying it, that's what any independent media analysis has
shown. So in terms of trust, you really can't trust a word, I think, that Mr. Trump has to say.
In terms of the TPP, it is no secret. I think our trade policies, for many, many years, have been a disaster. They have benefited
corporate America at the expense of working people. Secretary Clinton has come out in opposition to the TPP, does not want to see itCHUCK TODD:
Right.
BERNIE SANDERS:
--appear in the lame duck Congress. That's my view, as well.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, some of your supporters are disappointed in the pick of Tim Kaine, that he's not progressive enough. I know Tim Kaine
called you after he was picked. Do you consider Tim Kaine a progressive? And are you happy with this pick?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, you know, the pick is Secretary Clinton's. I've known Tim Kaine for a number of years. We've served in the Senate together,
obviously. Tim is a very, very smart guy. He's a very nice guy. His political views are not my political views. He is more conservative
than I am. Would I have preferred to see somebody like an Elizabeth Warren selected by Secretary Clinton? Yes, I would have.
CHUCK TODD:
And then finally, do you feel as if, that you, when you got Glass-Steagall, I wanted to ask about this, because it looks like the one thing
that both parties may agree on in their platforms is putting-- is being in favor of reinstating Glass-Steagall. Does this mean we will see
that happen in the next Congress?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I'm going to do everything that I can to make it happen. You know, when we talk about our campaign, one of the things that we
have been able to do, Chuck, is create the most progressive Democratic platform in the history of the Democratic Party, and that
includes breaking up the large Wall Street banks and reestablishing Glass-Steagall.
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I think the American people understand that we cannot continue to have a handful of reckless, irresponsible banks often acting
illegally, that something has to happen. They have to be broken up.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, Senator Bernie Sanders. The big speech is tomorrow night. We'll be waiting for you here in a very, very hot Philadelphia, over
100 degrees.
BERNIE SANDERS:
Okay.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Sanders, thanks for coming on. Good to see you, sir.
BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you very much.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, reaction to Hillary Clinton's choice of Tim Kaine as a running mate, who showed why he might have appeal,
unique appeal, to a very important voting bloc.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEN. TIM KAINE:
Aprendilo valores de mi pueblo--faith, familia, y trabajo.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD
And we'll be back in a moment from Philadelphia with this great panel. Rachel Maddow, Michael Steele, Andrea Mitchell, and Chris
Matthews. Stay tuned.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
And we'll be back in a moment from Philadelphia with this great panel, Rachel Maddow, Michael Steele, Andrea Mitchell, and Chris
Matthews. Stay tuned.
***COMMERCIAL TAPE***
CHUCK TODD:
We are back. So much to talk about already. Our panel is here, Rachel Maddow, host of The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC,
former chairman of the Republican National Committee, Michael Steele, he's sort of the fish out of water here in Philadelphia. Andrea
Mitchell, NBC News, Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent, host, of course, of Andrea Mitchell Reports on MSNBC. And a Philadelphia
native himself, Mr. Brotherly Love Chris Matthews, host of Hardball-RACHEL MADDOW:
Mr. Brotherly Love?
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
And sisterly affection.
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CHUCK TODD:
--Sisterly affection here for the Penn grad.
CHUCK TODD:
And-- this morning by the way we have new pictures of Tim Kaine walking into church this morning in Richmond, Virginia. He now
realizes, and now his parish is realizing, what it's like to have Secret Service following around a member of the parish there. All right.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Know what his Secret Service name is going to be yet?
CHUCK TODD:
What do we think the code name should be?
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But we're not sure-RACHEL MADDOW:
Well, the big joke was that if you're boring enough, your Secret Service name is Tim Kaine.
CHUCK TODD:
Ooh.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Right? That-CHUCK TODD:
Those are old Johnny Carson and Jay Leno, Al Gore jokes-CHUCK TODD:
All right, you guys are having already too much fun.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Sorry, sorry.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me just throw it out here. We heard what Bernie Sanders said about Tim Kaine. It was, that was tougher than I expected.
RACHEL MADDOW:
"His politics are not my politics."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
That's really -RACHEL MADDOW:
"He does not share my political views." That's an aggressive take from Bernie. I'm not surprised. Bernie's an aggressive politician. And
I think when Senator Sanders speaks at the DNC, I think everybody's going to be on the edge of their seat. I think that he is not going
to pull a Ted Cruz because he's already made an endorsement.
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CHUCK TODD:
Well, he said, "I'm for Hillary," and he was tough on Trump.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah. And but he doesn't relish going after Trump. He likes going after the Democratic Party to try to move the Democratic Party.
That's his target, always has been.
MICHAEL STEELE:
It's still obvious, he's not 'Feeling the Bern' for Hillary. And that was very obvious. And when you asked about the trust question, he
didn't say he trusted Hillary Clinton. He said he didn't trust Donald Trump. So the reality of it is there's still some tension there that
Bernie is reflecting among his supporters. And it was evident there. I mean-RACHEL MADDOW:
He's got a mission that's bigger than one election. He always has.
MICHAEL STEELE:
That's true.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And in fact, he could quiet the march that is planned to go from the center of Center City, and Rittenhouse Square all the way down at
Independence Hall. This march is going to disrupt the city today, no matter how peaceful, because this is a city, in 100-degree heat,
that is planning for a convention. And it's going to be a very large outpouring. He also said-CHUCK TODD:
And by the way, the hotter it is, the crankier people will be.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Yeah. And he also says that Tim Kaine doesn't share his politics, not only that, but that he would have preferred Elizabeth Warren. He
made it very clear; Tim Kaine is a nice guy, but he's not endorsing or embracing someone who Hillary Clinton -CHUCK TODD:
There's a painful look in your face, Chris.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
--called Tim Kaine a progressive.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
He didn't get to pick. Hillary Clinton did. And I've watched Hillary Clinton. I've watched a lot of politicians over the years. You can tell
when they're actually happy, not when they fake the laugh or anything else. She looked delighted during his speech yesterday. And I
haven't seen her that delighted in a long time. She had found her guy to be her running mate. I think she loved it.
And I think one thing we're getting all excited about, I understand why the progressives are upset. But one thing historically we all
know is the selection of a vice president is a poor predictor of the direction of that administration.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
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FDR picked John Nance Garner-RACHEL MADDOW:
It's not a policy pick.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Kennedy picked another conservative from the south, Lyndon Johnson, relatively conservative. And then we got the New Deal out of
that and we got the Great Society we got the New Frontier. It's a poor predictor. Now, if this is about spoils, they've got an argument.
They wanted a piece of the action. But there's differences between spoils and direction.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to throw out the one thing that Trump's trying to hit Kaine on, well, two things. But the one big one is the gifts in Virginia.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
I only throw it out there is that I heard Ed Rendell ask to defend it. And he struggled, Andrea. He said, "Well, it's illegal in
Pennsylvania."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Virginia-CHUCK TODD:
Okay. And it's legal in Virginia. That wasn't exactly a resounding defense.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Yeah. Virginia has a very strange, let's face it, strange gift law. The difference with Bob McDonnell, who was convicted, and then the
Supreme Court overturned it, is there was no quid pro quo. He declared it. That was the main thing. He declared everything, put it
down, in fact, computed higher numbers to staying in friends' houses. He put everything down. He was meticulous about it.
So they don't think there's a big ethics thing. Just on his progressivity or lack of it, he has this civil rights background. I mean I was in
the room. And what you saw on T.V. yesterday in Miami, in that largely Hispanic campus, that wonderful campus in Miami, it was
extraordinary. The enthusiasm for him and the affection. And having watched her all of these years, you're absolutely right, Chris-CHUCK TODD:
You know-ANDREA MITCHELL:
--she found her guy. She was a happy camper.
RACHEL MADDOW:
He's not a progressive, but they will tell a very progressive story about his history. The party has moved to the left while he sort of
always been a solid liberal.
CHUCK TODD:
Both of them are trying to-ANDREA MITCHELL:
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Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
I feel like both Clinton and Kaine are trying to catch up to the party's movement.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
That's so true.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, on guns he was always there. He was heroic in Virginia on gun laws.
CHUCK TODD:
That they're moving-- and Michael, let me ask you this. The Trump camping says, "We love the Kaine pick." And here's their
reasoning. They love the Kaine pick because it reinforces that they're the political professionals, that here's Tim Kaine, and all he's
done in life, is been in office for the last 25 years.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
And the whole point of Trump is Trump's Mr. "I'm the total outsider." If they want to double down on that, fine, go ahead. What do you
say?
RACHEL MADDOW:
Except Mike Pence
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right, right, right.
CHUCK TODD:
They pay no attention to that. I brought that brought to them. I said, "What about Pence?" And they're like, "Well, it's the top of the
ticket."
MICHAEL STEELE:
"Ignore that man behind the curtain."
CHUCK TODD:
What do you say to that? Did they have a point or not?
MICHAEL STEELE:
Well, they'll have a-- I think the broader point, is an interesting one. Because what he's comparing himself-- he's comparing himself,
Trump, to Kaine-CHUCK TODD:
Right.
MICHAEL STEELE:
--and Clinton. So it's me and against them.
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CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Pence is not a part of that equation, necessarily.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
MICHAEL STEELE:
So when he's talking about the maverick, the outsider, he's-- he's assuming his ticket is total that.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, Pence wasn't even a part of his own rollout.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
If you remember. And that was-RACHEL MADDOW:
He couldn't get a word in edgewise.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Hillary Clinton spoke about Tim Kaine-MICHAEL STEELE:
I think their strength, Chuck, is gonna be on the argument-- this notion that Tim Kaine is progressive is just not believable. And for a
whole host of reasons. I think that's an opening for a lot of folks on Trump's side.
RACHEL MADDOW:
You can, there are element of his record that are not progressive, but on balance, I would argue that he is.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
I would argue that too.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
But one thing, the guy's two doors from you, if you're president. Look at the structure of the West Wing now. It's not some guy that
goes back to Maine like Lincoln's first vice president. He or she is right with you.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
You want a good person two doors for you, somebody who has values. And it's not just smart politics. I think what Hillary Clinton's
going to love having is a guy who's a true blue good guy. And I think he is a progressive on all the moral issues--
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CHUCK TODD:
Let's sneak in a break here. When we come back, I want to get into the DNC e-mail situation. And I also want to get your guys'
reaction to some interesting comments from Donald Trump. Yeah, you know that guy that was at the start of the show. We'll be right
back.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back, panelists here. Before we jump to Trump, the DNC email leaks, Cleveland, we expected rowdiness, Never Trumpsters,
and all that stuff. We expect order here. But I wonder, Rachel, if-- look, I'm hearing from the Bernie bros. I'm in one of the emails just-I'm the complaint department here sometimes at NBC. Somebody was complaining about coverage. And I said, "Okay, let's talk on the
phone," or whatever. But we didn't do anything about it, because I get complaints about coverage every hour, every day.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
But I think Bernie supporters may like this place, at least outside. They may be upset, and they may do something about it.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah. I mean and, you know, there will be that big protest that Andrea was talking about today, to start things off. And there will be a
lot, there will be hundreds of Bernie delegates insides the room. Now honestly, from the top, down, he said, "We've got to elect Hillary
Clinton." He's been unequivocal about that, that's the most important thing.
It'll be interesting to see whether the rules fights and the platform fights end up, in the end, when there's need to get nailed down with
those votes, there is some dissent and chaos there. There might be.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
One thing is-CHUCK TODD:
Do you think Debbie Wasserman Schultz needs to get out now?
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Well, look-CHUCK TODD:
Not even gavel it in?
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
This is not a mystery story. This isn't Colombo.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
We knew from the beginning, watching the debate schedule, put together by the DNC-CHUCK TODD:
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Sure.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
--that they were tilting the scales to Hillary Clinton. Middle of the night debates, Sunday morning -- it was an absurd debate schedule.
And it just said, "We're for Hillary, we don't want the new guy to get all the attention."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And what Bernie said to you is that she's not going to be giving a speech. When does the party chair not give a speech at the
convention? And apparently that is the case.
CHUCK TODD:
And then right now, though, they will gavel in.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Thank god we haven't-- her quitting right now before -- I mean, the DNC's gonna be running a big part of the ground game for the
whole-CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah.
RACHEL MADDOW:
You know, you don't-CHUCK TODD:
But I tell you, this-RACHEL MADDOW:
It would be suicide for the chair to jump out now-CHUCK TODD:
This doesn't help her own fight for reelection, which I still think she's going to be okay.
RACHEL MADDOW:
No, but-CHUCK TODD:
It's a district that she knows very well. But-ANDREA MITCHELL:
But Bernie endorsed her opponent.
RACHEL MADDOW:
But her reelection fight is in her district.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Right.
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It's not to be the chair of the DNC, that's next year.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Michael Steele, what'd you hear from Donald Trump? Did it make you feel better or worse about his chances?
MICHAEL STEELE:
Well, I think Donald Trump did a couple of things he needed to do. One was, and you could see it in the room that night, people began
to say, "Okay, I can get there." The speech that he gave, when you read it, seemed a lot darker and harsher than when he delivered it.
He delivered it in a way-RACHEL MADDOW:
I thought the opposite.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Yeah, yeah.
RACHEL MADDOW:
When reading it, I wasn't freaked out.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Yeah.
RACHEL MADDOW:
And then, when I saw him give it, I pulled the covers up.
MICHAEL STEELE:
No, for me, it was the reverse. Because the reaction. I'm sitting in the room and I'm getting the reaction from the crowd.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Mmm.
MICHAEL STEELE:
And the reaction from the crowd was, "This guy is going to be a fighter." And I think that's a strong message for him coming out of this
convention.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Rachel, you have never pulled the covers up.
RACHEL MADDOW:Oh no, I meant proverbially
CHUCK TODD:There's a lot of personal information here. Woah, it's Sunday morning, guys.
MICHAEL STEELE:
I thought he did what he needed to do, Chuck. I do.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Standing under those 15-foot-tall letters with Trump, and then his head comes up there. And then he spent 76 minutes screaming, red
faced, about terrorism and death and destruction and "I'm the only one who can fix it"--
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CHRIS MATTHEWS:
I think that was technical. I don't think he knew how to read a script like that. I don't think he had the ability to-- his daughter knew how
to do it. It's tough to read a script in a conversational manner. So you end up doing this sort of scream thing.
RACHEL MADDOW:
But it takes an ego to turn a 30 minute script into a 78 minute rant.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But he said that he was the person who would fix everything. And they're focusing on that. But, you know, Kaine was focusing on that.
You know, it is the "we" not the I. They're comparing him to a dictator.
MICHAEL STEELE:
But the-ANDREA MITCHELL:
It is the language and the delivery, Michael-MICHAEL STEELE:
Don't lose sight of the fact that a lot of Americans out there are saying it is the "we" who screwed us up to this point.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah.
MICHAEL STEELE:
It is the we who've gotten us into this mess.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
It's a different way of defining democracy, Michael.
MICHAEL STEELE:
So they're looking for the I, someone who's going to step forward as a leader, to get us through this mess. This is the bifurcation of the
of the population, the voting population right now. And it's going to be interesting to see which one of these arguments win-RACHEL MADDOW:
Is this about the hunger for a strong man, is that what you're talking about?
MICHAEL STEELE:Yeah no, there really is Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW:We've seen this around the world, it's not supposed to be us.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
I've heard Bernie make your point.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Yes!
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
It's that we have to reach outside the establishment to get the solution to these really bad economic problems affecting the working
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people of this country.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Same message. Different sides.
MICHAEL STEELE:Same message.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Same message. The question is whether or not one man is supposed to deliver salvation for the country. We're not supposed to be
that kind of country.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to throw one more. He seemed, at least in the interview with me, he goes after Mitch McConnell, goes after Ted Cruz, goes
after John Kasich.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
He is fearless in that regard.
CHUCK TODD:He really is.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
He is not going to moderate himself.
RACHEL MADDOW:
You didn't even ask about Kasich. And he's bringing it up
CHUCK TODD:
No, exactly. He brought Kasich up himself.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And another player to be named player, who, you know, remain -- could be one of the senators like Jeff Flake. Look, the fact is that he
is not playing by anybody's ground rules except Donald Trump's. What he said about N.A.T.O. was extraordinary because he doubled
down on that. And the whole system of collect your security in Europe, if you're in Poland today, you are not reassured-CHUCK TODD:
What's amazing is the Trump campaign tried to walk it back all last week on the N.A.T.O. stuff. And he's basically saying, "Don't walk it
back."
RACHEL MADDOW:
Even beyond N.A.T.O. to talk about Europe as a threat to America is what's good for Europe is bad for America and we have an
interest in Europe being weak and divided, they only got together to screw us? Like, hold on a second.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah, it'll play in Scranton. It'll play up there in the Eerie, Pennsylvania it'll play.
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The European Union-- came out of the way to try to not have World War III.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Because people think we're being shoved around and exploited and he's saying, "I'm going to shove back."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They are our markets-- markets, allies-CHUCK TODD:
You guys great. I'm going to try to get another half hour. But let me sneak in this. We'll be back in a moment with our-- we'll call it
halftime segment. No, it's Endgame Segment. And we'll look at Hillary Clinton's popularity compared to other Democratic nominees on
the eve of their conventions.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
The panel never stops interacting here. Seriously we just went to a commercial break-RACHEL MADDOW:
--wants more with France!
CHUCK TODD:
It's endgame time. Look, I want to show you here very quickly some numbers, because it will help us judge whether this is a successful
convention for Hillary Clinton. These are favorable ratings, personal favorable ratings, whether you're right side up or upside down,
from our NBC Wall Street Journal poll, for every Democrat going back to '92. And as you can see, Hillary Clinton in the worst shape of
any presumptive nominee going into their convention.
Now, let me show you what everybody else came through after their convention. So successful convention for Bill Clinton, successful
one for Al Gore. Flat for John Kerry, successful, Barack Obama. Obviously, we'll find out, for Hillary Clinton, what does she need to-ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, what they are going to do is they're going to have gauzy films, the same kind of films you saw in 1992, the same producers-CHUCK TODD:
And JFK?
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They're going to have all of these films, biography, résumé. They know that her résumé is not resonating with millennials. People know
what she did, they don't know-- they know the list of what she was. They don't know what she actually did, what she accomplished.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They're going to do all of that. The balance is going to be very different.
RACHEL MADDOW:
--because T.V. networks don't always take the movies anymore--
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ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, they're going to have to validators.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They're going to have people on that podium behind it who are going to talk about things she has done for them. And it's going to be
very much all about her and much less about taking down Trump
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
I think the magic moment in this convention's going to be Thursday night. And a lot of women, and a lot of men, too, are going to see
Hillary Clinton as the first party nominee, who's probably going to be like the president. She has the advantage right now. And there
are going to be misty eyes all across the country.
And any men at that moment who make a wisecrack are going to be guaranteeing another vote for Hillary Clinton. I think it's a very
emotional moment for people. They've haven't quite got to it because of all is mishegas that's gone on this year. I think it's going to be
magical. And if Hillary Clinton just stands there with a little emotion, this is an amazing historic moment.
CHUCK TODD:
Michael was the Republican convention too anti-Clinton and not enough pro-Trump?
MICHAEL STEELE:
No. The Republican convention had to go anti-Clinton-CHUCK TODD:
Had to do that?
MICHAEL STEELE:
--because of the Trump issues.
CHUCK TODD:
What about this one?
MICHAEL STEELE:
This one? I was thinking, as you guys were talking about Barack Obama and talking about Hillary Clinton being likable enough, this is
going to be a convention in which they're going to showcase her so you can like her. Because people, those numbers show, don't like
her. So it's going to be everything you just said, Chris, plus more. The problem is what happens afterwards. And that's where Hillary
Clinton's going to have to contine .
CHUCK TODD:
Here's an out question for all of you. Besides Hillary Clinton's speech, what will be the other buzziest speech or speaker when we walk
away from this convention?
RACHEL MADDOW:
We're going to have a huge one on night one. Bernie is a big deal.
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Bernie.
RACHEL MADDOW:
The Democratic Party is going through a transformation. Liberals are having their moment. And this convention has to reflect it.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Every Democratic convention I can remember, going back to, God, '64, the best speech was never given by the nominee, whether it's
Bobby Kennedy or it's Jesse Jackson, or it's Mario Cuomo.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
The candidates never have been able to deliver the best speech. So I would bet on Bernie.
RACHEL MADDOW:
It was Trump Jr. last week.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Bernie or President Obama.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Michelle Obama and Barack Obama on day two.
CHUCK TODD:
I think it's Barack Obama on Wednesday night. I think it's going to be to Hillary Clinton what Bill Clinton was to Barack Obama four
years ago. All right. That's all for this Sunday morning.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
We agree.
CHUCK TODD:
I'll be hosting a special edition of Meet the Press Daily tonight at 5:00 Eastern on MSNBC. I know that's what everybody on this table
will be watching. And then, throughout the week, I'll be joined by my colleagues Lester Holt and Savannah Guthrie right here at The
Wells Fargo Center for convention coverage on the network beginning at 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. If you missed it last week, you
should be regretting it. Watch us this week. And of course we'll be back next Sunday. Because if it is Sunday, Meet the Press.
* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *
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Presidential Debate at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri
October 9, 2016
PARTICIPANTS:
Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (D) and
Businessman Donald Trump (R)
MODERATORS:
Anderson Cooper (CNN) and
Martha Raddatz (ABC News)
Location:
RADDATZ: Ladies and gentlemen the Republican nominee for president, Donald J. Trump, and
the Democratic nominee for president, Hillary Clinton. [applause]
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COOPER: Thank you very much for being here. We're going to begin with a question from one of
the members in our town hall. Each of you will have two minutes to respond to this question.
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Secretary Clinton, you won the coin toss, so you'll go first. Our first question comes from Patrice
Brock. Patrice?
QUESTION: Thank you, and good evening. The last debate could have been rated as MA, mature
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CLINTON: Well, thank you. Are you a teacher? Yes, I think that that's a very good question,
because I've heard from lots of teachers and parents about some of their concerns about some of the
things that are being said and done in this campaign.
And I think it is very important for us to make clear to our children that our country really is great
because we're good. And we are going to respect one another, lift each other up. We are going to be
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If we set those goals and we go together to try to achieve them, there's nothing in my opinion that America can't do. So
that's why I hope that we will come together in this campaign. Obviously, I'm hoping to earn your vote, I'm hoping to be
elected in November, and I can promise you, I will work with every American.
I want to be the president for all Americans, regardless of your political beliefs, where you come from, what you look like,
your religion. I want us to heal our country and bring it together because that's, I think, the best way for us to get the
future that our children and our grandchildren deserve.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, thank you. Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.
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TRUMP: Well, I actually agree with that. I agree with everything she said. I began this campaign because I was so tired of
seeing such foolish things happen to our country. This is a great country. This is a great land. I've gotten to know the
people of the country over the last year-and-a-half that I've been doing this as a politician. I cannot believe I'm saying that
about myself, but I guess I have been a politician.
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And my whole concept was to make America great again. When I watch the deals being made, when I watch what's
happening with some horrible things like Obamacare, where your health insurance and health care is going up by
numbers that are astronomical, 68 percent, 59 percent, 71 percent, when I look at the Iran deal and how bad a deal it is for
us, it's a one-sided transaction where we're giving back $150 billion to a terrorist state, really, the number one terror state,
we've made them a strong country from really a very weak country just three years ago.
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When I look at all of the things that I see and all of the potential that our country has, we have such tremendous potential,
whether it's in business and trade, where we're doing so badly. Last year, we had almost $800 billion trade deficit. In
other words, trading with other countries. We had an $800 billion deficit. It's hard to believe. Inconceivable.
You say who's making these deals? We're going the make great deals. We're going to have a strong border. We're going to
bring back law and order. Just today, policemen was shot, two killed. And this is happening on a weekly basis. We have to
bring back respect to law enforcement. At the same time, we have to take care of people on all sides. We need justice.
But I want to do things that haven't been done, including fixing and making our inner cities better for the AfricanAmerican citizens that are so great, and for the Latinos, Hispanics, and I look forward to doing it. It's called make America
great again.
COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump. The question from Patrice was about are you both modeling positive and appropriate
behavior for today's youth? We received a lot of questions online, Mr. Trump, about the tape that was released on Friday,
as you can imagine. You called what you said locker room banter. You described kissing women without consent, grabbing
their genitals. That is sexual assault. You bragged that you have sexually assaulted women. Do you understand that?
TRUMP: No, I didn't say that at all. I don't think you understood what was—this was locker room talk. I'm not proud of
it. I apologize to my family. I apologize to the American people. Certainly I'm not proud of it. But this is locker room talk.
You know, when we have a world where you have ISIS chopping off heads, where you have—and, frankly, drowning
people in steel cages, where you have wars and horrible, horrible sights all over, where you have so many bad things
happening, this is like medieval times. We haven't seen anything like this, the carnage all over the world.
And they look and they see. Can you imagine the people that are, frankly, doing so well against us with ISIS? And they
look at our country and they see what's going on.
Yes, I'm very embarrassed by it. I hate it. But it's locker room talk, and it's one of those things. I will knock the hell out of
ISIS. We're going to defeat ISIS. ISIS happened a number of years ago in a vacuum that was left because of bad judgment.
And I will tell you, I will take care of ISIS.
COOPER: So, Mr. Trump...
TRUMP: And we should get on to much more important things and much bigger things.
COOPER: Just for the record, though, are you saying that what you said on that bus 11 years ago that you did not actually
kiss women without consent or grope women without consent?
TRUMP: I have great respect for women. Nobody has more respect for women than I do.
COOPER: So, for the record, you're saying you never did that?
TRUMP: I've said things that, frankly, you hear these things I said. And I was embarrassed by it. But I have tremendous
respect for women.
COOPER: Have you ever done those things?
TRUMP: And women have respect for me. And I will tell you: No, I have not. And I will tell you that I'm going to make
our country safe. We're going to have borders in our country, which we don't have now. People are pouring into our
country, and they're coming in from the Middle East and other places.
We're going to make America safe again. We're going to make America great again, but we're going to make America safe
again. And we're going to make America wealthy again, because if you don't do that, it just—it sounds harsh to say, but we
have to build up the wealth of our nation.
COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: Right now, other nations are taking our jobs and they're taking our wealth.
COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: And that's what I want to talk about.
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COOPER: Secretary Clinton, do you want to respond?
CLINTON: Well, like everyone else, I've spent a lot of time thinking over the last 48 hours about what we heard and saw.
You know, with prior Republican nominees for president, I disagreed with them on politics, policies, principles, but I
never questioned their fitness to serve.
Donald Trump is different. I said starting back in June that he was not fit to be president and commander-in-chief. And
many Republicans and independents have said the same thing. What we all saw and heard on Friday was Donald talking
about women, what he thinks about women, what he does to women. And he has said that the video doesn't represent who
he is.
But I think it's clear to anyone who heard it that it represents exactly who he is. Because we've seen this throughout the
campaign. We have seen him insult women. We've seen him rate women on their appearance, ranking them from one to
ten. We've seen him embarrass women on TV and on Twitter. We saw him after the first debate spend nearly a week
denigrating a former Miss Universe in the harshest, most personal terms.
So, yes, this is who Donald Trump is. But it's not only women, and it's not only this video that raises questions about his
fitness to be our president, because he has also targeted immigrants, African- Americans, Latinos, people with disabilities,
POWs, Muslims, and so many others.
So this is who Donald Trump is. And the question for us, the question our country must answer is that this is not who we
are. That's why—to go back to your question—I want to send a message—we all should—to every boy and girl and, indeed,
to the entire world that America already is great, but we are great because we are good, and we will respect one another,
and we will work with one another, and we will celebrate our diversity.
These are very important values to me, because this is the America that I know and love. And I can pledge to you tonight
that this is the America that I will serve if I'm so fortunate enough to become your president.
RADDATZ: And we want to get to some questions from online...
TRUMP: Am I allowed to respond to that? I assume I am.
RADDATZ: Yes, you can respond to that.
TRUMP: It's just words, folks. It's just words. Those words, I've been hearing them for many years. I heard them when
they were running for the Senate in New York, where Hillary was going to bring back jobs to upstate New York and she
failed.
I've heard them where Hillary is constantly talking about the inner cities of our country, which are a disaster educationwise, jobwise, safety-wise, in every way possible. I'm going to help the African-Americans. I'm going to help the Latinos,
Hispanics. I am going to help the inner cities.
She's done a terrible job for the African-Americans. She wants their vote, and she does nothing, and then she comes back
four years later. We saw that firsthand when she was United States senator. She campaigned where the primary part of
her campaign...
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump—I want to get to audience questions and online questions.
TRUMP: So, she's allowed to do that, but I'm not allowed to respond?
RADDATZ: You're going to have—you're going to get to respond right now.
TRUMP: Sounds fair.
RADDATZ: This tape is generating intense interest. In just 48 hours, it's become the single most talked about story of
the entire 2016 election on Facebook, with millions and millions of people discussing it on the social network. As we said a
moment ago, we do want to bring in questions from voters around country via social media, and our first stays on this
topic. Jeff from Ohio asks on Facebook, "Trump says the campaign has changed him. When did that happen?" So, Mr.
Trump, let me add to that. When you walked off that bus at age 59, were you a different man or did that behavior continue
until just recently? And you have two minutes for this.
TRUMP: It was locker room talk, as I told you. That was locker room talk. I'm not proud of it. I am a person who has
great respect for people, for my family, for the people of this country. And certainly, I'm not proud of it. But that was
something that happened.
If you look at Bill Clinton, far worse. Mine are words, and his was action. His was what he's done to women. There's never
been anybody in the history politics in this nation that's been so abusive to women. So you can say any way you want to
say it, but Bill Clinton was abusive to women.
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Hillary Clinton attacked those same women and attacked them viciously. Four of them here tonight. One of the women,
who is a wonderful woman, at 12 years old, was raped at 12. Her client she represented got him off, and she's seen
laughing on two separate occasions, laughing at the girl who was raped. Kathy Shelton, that young woman is here with us
tonight.
So don't tell me about words. I am absolutely—I apologize for those words. But it is things that people say. But what
President Clinton did, he was impeached, he lost his license to practice law. He had to pay an $850,000 fine to one of the
women. Paula Jones, who's also here tonight.
And I will tell you that when Hillary brings up a point like that and she talks about words that I said 11 years ago, I think
it's disgraceful, and I think she should be ashamed of herself, if you want to know the truth. [applause]
RADDATZ: Can we please hold the applause? Secretary Clinton, you have two minutes.
CLINTON: Well, first, let me start by saying that so much of what he's just said is not right, but he gets to run his
campaign any way he chooses. He gets to decide what he wants to talk about. Instead of answering people's questions,
talking about our agenda, laying out the plans that we have that we think can make a better life and a better country, that's
his choice.
When I hear something like that, I am reminded of what my friend, Michelle Obama, advised us all: When they go low,
you go high. [applause]
And, look, if this were just about one video, maybe what he's saying tonight would be understandable, but everyone can
draw their own conclusions at this point about whether or not the man in the video or the man on the stage respects
women. But he never apologizes for anything to anyone.
He never apologized to Mr. and Mrs. Khan, the Gold Star family whose son, Captain Khan, died in the line of duty in Iraq.
And Donald insulted and attacked them for weeks over their religion.
He never apologized to the distinguished federal judge who was born in Indiana, but Donald said he couldn't be trusted to
be a judge because his parents were, quote, "Mexican."
He never apologized to the reporter that he mimicked and mocked on national television and our children were watching.
And he never apologized for the racist lie that President Obama was not born in the United States of America. He owes the
president an apology, he owes our country an apology, and he needs to take responsibility for his actions and his words.
TRUMP: Well, you owe the president an apology, because as you know very well, your campaign, Sidney
Blumenthal—he's another real winner that you have—and he's the one that got this started, along with your campaign
manager, and they were on television just two weeks ago, she was, saying exactly that. So you really owe him an apology.
You're the one that sent the pictures around your campaign, sent the pictures around with President Obama in a certain
garb. That was long before I was ever involved, so you actually owe an apology.
Number two, Michelle Obama. I've gotten to see the commercials that they did on you. And I've gotten to see some of the
most vicious commercials I've ever seen of Michelle Obama talking about you, Hillary.
So, you talk about friend? Go back and take a look at those commercials, a race where you lost fair and square, unlike the
Bernie Sanders race, where you won, but not fair and square, in my opinion. And all you have to do is take a look at
WikiLeaks and just see what they say about Bernie Sanders and see what Deborah Wasserman Schultz had in mind,
because Bernie Sanders, between super-delegates and Deborah Wasserman Schultz, he never had a chance. And I was so
surprised to see him sign on with the devil.
But when you talk about apology, I think the one that you should really be apologizing for and the thing that you should be
apologizing for are the 33,000 e-mails that you deleted, and that you acid washed, and then the two boxes of e-mails and
other things last week that were taken from an office and are now missing.
And I'll tell you what. I didn't think I'd say this, but I'm going to say it, and I hate to say it. But if I win, I am going to
instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to look into your situation, because there has never been so many
lies, so much deception. There has never been anything like it, and we're going to have a special prosecutor.
When I speak, I go out and speak, the people of this country are furious. In my opinion, the people that have been longterm workers at the FBI are furious. There has never been anything like this, where e-mails—and you get a subpoena, you
get a subpoena, and after getting the subpoena, you delete 33,000 e-mails, and then you acid wash them or bleach them,
as you would say, very expensive process.
So we're going to get a special prosecutor, and we're going to look into it, because you know what? People have
been—their lives have been destroyed for doing one-fifth of what you've done. And it's a disgrace. And honestly, you ought
to be ashamed of yourself.
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RADDATZ: Secretary Clinton, I want to follow up on that.
[crosstalk]
RADDATZ: I'm going to let you talk about e-mails.
CLINTON: ... because everything he just said is absolutely false, but I'm not surprised.
TRUMP: Oh, really?
CLINTON: In the first debate...[laughter]
RADDATZ: And really, the audience needs to calm down here.
CLINTON: ... I told people that it would be impossible to be fact-checking Donald all the time. I'd never get to talk about
anything I want to do and how we're going to really make lives better for people.
So, once again, go to HillaryClinton.com. We have literally Trump—you can fact check him in real time. Last time at the
first debate, we had millions of people fact checking, so I expect we'll have millions more fact checking, because, you
know, it is—it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of Donald Trump is not in charge of the law in our
country.
TRUMP: Because you'd be in jail. [applause]
RADDATZ: Secretary Clinton...
COOPER: We want to remind the audience to please not talk out loud. Please do not applaud. You're just wasting time.
RADDATZ: And, Secretary Clinton, I do want to follow up on e- mails. You've said your handing of your e-mails was a
mistake. You disagreed with FBI Director James Comey, calling your handling of classified information, quote, "extremely
careless." The FBI said that there were 110 classified e-mails that were exchanged, eight of which were top secret, and that
it was possible hostile actors did gain access to those e-mails. You don't call that extremely careless?
CLINTON: Well, Martha, first, let me say—and I've said before, but I'll repeat it, because I want everyone to hear it—that
was a mistake, and I take responsibility for using a personal e-mail account. Obviously, if I were to do it over again, I
would not. I'm not making any excuses. It was a mistake. And I am very sorry about that.
But I think it's also important to point out where there are some misleading accusations from critics and others. After a
year-long investigation, there is no evidence that anyone hacked the server I was using and there is no evidence that
anyone can point to at all—anyone who says otherwise has no basis—that any classified material ended up in the wrong
hands.
I take classified materials very seriously and always have. When I was on the Senate Armed Services Committee, I was
privy to a lot of classified material. Obviously, as secretary of state, I had some of the most important secrets that we
possess, such as going after bin Laden. So I am very committed to taking classified information seriously. And as I said,
there is no evidence that any classified information ended up in the wrong hands.
RADDATZ: OK, we're going to move on.
TRUMP: And yet she didn't know the word—the letter C on a document. Right? She didn't even know what that
word—what that letter meant.
You know, it's amazing. I'm watching Hillary go over facts. And she's going after fact after fact, and she's lying again,
because she said she—you know, what she did with the e-mail was fine. You think it was fine to delete 33,000 e-mails? I
don't think so.
She said the 33,000 e-mails had to do with her daughter's wedding, number one, and a yoga class. Well, maybe we'll give
three or three or four or five or something. 33,000 e-mails deleted, and now she's saying there wasn't anything wrong.
And more importantly, that was after getting a subpoena. That wasn't before. That was after. She got it from the United
States Congress. And I'll be honest, I am so disappointed in congressmen, including Republicans, for allowing this to
happen.
Our Justice Department, where our husband goes on to the back of a airplane for 39 minutes, talks to the attorney general
days before a ruling is going to be made on her case. But for you to say that there was nothing wrong with you deleting
39,000 e-mails, again, you should be ashamed of yourself. What you did—and this is after getting a subpoena from the
United States Congress.
COOPER: We have to move on.
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TRUMP: You did that. Wait a minute. One second.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, you can respond, and then we got to move on.
RADDATZ: We want to give the audience a chance.
TRUMP: If you did that in the private sector, you'd be put in jail, let alone after getting a subpoena from the United
States Congress.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, you can respond. Then we have to move on to an audience question.
CLINTON: Look, it's just not true. And so please, go to...
TRUMP: Oh, you didn't delete them?
COOPER: Allow her to respond, please.
CLINTON: It was personal e-mails, not official.
TRUMP: Oh, 33,000? Yeah.
CLINTON: Not—well, we turned over 35,000, so...
TRUMP: Oh, yeah. What about the other 15,000?
COOPER: Please allow her to respond. She didn't talk while you talked.
CLINTON: Yes, that's true, I didn't.
TRUMP: Because you have nothing to say.
CLINTON: I didn't in the first debate, and I'm going to try not to in this debate, because I'd like to get to the questions
that the people have brought here tonight to talk to us about.
TRUMP: Get off this question.
CLINTON: OK, Donald. I know you're into big diversion tonight, anything to avoid talking about your campaign and the
way it's exploding and the way Republicans are leaving you. But let's at least focus...
TRUMP: Let's see what happens...[crosstalk]
COOPER: Allow her to respond.
CLINTON: ... on some of the issues that people care about tonight. Let's get to their questions.
COOPER: We have a question here from Ken Karpowicz. He has a question about health care. Ken?
TRUMP: I'd like to know, Anderson, why aren't you bringing up the e-mails? I'd like to know. Why aren't you bringing...
COOPER: We brought up the e-mails.
TRUMP: No, it hasn't. It hasn't. And it hasn't been finished at all.
COOPER: Ken Karpowicz has a question.
TRUMP: It's nice to—one on three.
QUESTION: Thank you. Affordable Care Act, known as Obamacare, it is not affordable. Premiums have gone up.
Deductibles have gone up. Copays have gone up. Prescriptions have gone up. And the coverage has gone down. What will
you do to bring the cost down and make coverage better?
COOPER: That first one goes to Secretary Clinton, because you started out the last one to the audience.
CLINTON: If he wants to start, he can start. No, go ahead, Donald.
TRUMP: No, I'm a gentlemen, Hillary. Go ahead. [laughter]
COOPER: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well, I think Donald was about to say he's going to solve it by repealing it and getting rid of the Affordable
Care Act. And I'm going to fix it, because I agree with you. Premiums have gotten too high. Copays, deductibles,
prescription drug costs, and I've laid out a series of actions that we can take to try to get those costs down.
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But here's what I don't want people to forget when we're talking about reining in the costs, which has to be the highest
priority of the next president, when the Affordable Care Act passed, it wasn't just that 20 million got insurance who didn't
have it before. But that in and of itself was a good thing. I meet these people all the time, and they tell me what a
difference having that insurance meant to them and their families.
But everybody else, the 170 million of us who get health insurance through our employees got big benefits. Number one,
insurance companies can't deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Number two, no lifetime limits, which is
a big deal if you have serious health problems.
Number three, women can't be charged more than men for our health insurance, which is the way it used to be before the
Affordable Care Act. Number four, if you're under 26, and your parents have a policy, you can be on that policy until the
age of 26, something that didn't happen before.
So I want very much to save what works and is good about the Affordable Care Act. But we've got to get costs down. We've
got to provide additional help to small businesses so that they can afford to provide health insurance. But if we repeal it,
as Donald has proposed, and start over again, all of those benefits I just mentioned are lost to everybody, not just people
who get their health insurance on the exchange. And then we would have to start all over again.
Right now, we are at 90 percent health insurance coverage. That's the highest we've ever been in our country.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, your time is up.
CLINTON: So I want us to get to 100 percent, but get costs down and keep quality up.
COOPER: Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.
TRUMP: It is such a great question and it's maybe the question I get almost more than anything else, outside of defense.
Obamacare is a disaster. You know it. We all know it. It's going up at numbers that nobody's ever seen worldwide.
Nobody's ever seen numbers like this for health care.
It's only getting worse. In '17, it implodes by itself. Their method of fixing it is to go back and ask Congress for more
money, more and more money. We have right now almost $20 trillion in debt.
Obamacare will never work. It's very bad, very bad health insurance. Far too expensive. And not only expensive for the
person that has it, unbelievably expensive for our country. It's going to be one of the biggest line items very shortly.
We have to repeal it and replace it with something absolutely much less expensive and something that works, where your
plan can actually be tailored. We have to get rid of the lines around the state, artificial lines, where we stop insurance
companies from coming in and competing, because they want—and President Obama and whoever was working on
it—they want to leave those lines, because that gives the insurance companies essentially monopolies. We want
competition.
You will have the finest health care plan there is. She wants to go to a single-payer plan, which would be a disaster,
somewhat similar to Canada. And if you haven't noticed the Canadians, when they need a big operation, when something
happens, they come into the United States in many cases because their system is so slow. It's catastrophic in certain ways.
But she wants to go to single payer, which means the government basically rules everything. Hillary Clinton has been after
this for years. Obamacare was the first step. Obamacare is a total disaster. And not only are your rates going up by
numbers that nobody's ever believed, but your deductibles are going up, so that unless you get hit by a truck, you're never
going to be able to use it.
COOPER: Mr. Trump, your time...
TRUMP: It is a disastrous plan, and it has to be repealed and replaced.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, let me follow up with you. Your husband called Obamacare, quote, "the craziest thing in the
world," saying that small-business owners are getting killed as premiums double, coverage is cut in half. Was he mistaken
or was the mistake simply telling the truth?
CLINTON: No, I mean, he clarified what he meant. And it's very clear. Look, we are in a situation in our country where if
we were to start all over again, we might come up with a different system. But we have an employer-based system. That's
where the vast majority of people get their health care.
And the Affordable Care Act was meant to try to fill the gap between people who were too poor and couldn't put together
any resources to afford health care, namely people on Medicaid. Obviously, Medicare, which is a single-payer system,
which takes care of our elderly and does a great job doing it, by the way, and then all of the people who were employed,
but people who were working but didn't have the money to afford insurance and didn't have anybody, an employer or
anybody else, to help them.
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That was the slot that the Obamacare approach was to take. And like I say, 20 million people now have health insurance.
So if we just rip it up and throw it away, what Donald's not telling you is we just turn it back to the insurance companies
the way it used to be, and that means the insurance companies...
COOPER: Secretary Clinton...
CLINTON: ... get to do pretty much whatever they want, including saying, look, I'm sorry, you've got diabetes, you had
cancer, your child has asthma...
COOPER: Your time is up.
CLINTON: ... you may not be able to have insurance because you can't afford it. So let's fix what's broken about it, but
let's not throw it away and give it all back to the insurance companies and the drug companies. That's not going to work.
COOPER: Mr. Trump, let me follow up on this.
TRUMP: Well, I just want—just one thing. First of all, Hillary, everything's broken about it. Everything. Number two,
Bernie Sanders said that Hillary Clinton has very bad judgment. This is a perfect example of it, trying to save Obamacare,
which is a disaster.
COOPER: You've said you want to end Obamacare...
TRUMP: By the way...
COOPER: You've said you want to end Obamacare. You've also said you want to make coverage accessible for people
with pre-existing conditions. How do you force insurance companies to do that if you're no longer mandating that every
American get insurance?
TRUMP: We're going to be able to. You're going to have plans...
COOPER: What does that mean?
TRUMP: Well, I'll tell you what it means. You're going to have plans that are so good, because we're going to have so
much competition in the insurance industry. Once we break out—once we break out the lines and allow the competition to
come...
COOPER: Are you going—are you going to have a mandate that Americans have to have health insurance?
TRUMP: President Obama—Anderson, excuse me. President Obama, by keeping those lines, the boundary lines around
each state, it was almost gone until just very toward the end of the passage of Obamacare, which, by the way, was a fraud.
You know that, because Jonathan Gruber, the architect of Obamacare, was said—he said it was a great lie, it was a big lie.
President Obama said you keep your doctor, you keep your plan. The whole thing was a fraud, and it doesn't work.
But when we get rid of those lines, you will have competition, and we will be able to keep pre-existing, we'll also be able to
help people that can't get—don't have money because we are going to have people protected.
And Republicans feel this way, believe it or not, and strongly this way. We're going to block grant into the states. We're
going to block grant into Medicaid into the states...
COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: ... so that we will be able to take care of people without the necessary funds to take care of themselves.
COOPER: Thank you, Mr. Trump.
RADDATZ: We now go to Gorbah Hamed with a question for both candidates.
QUESTION: Hi. There are 3.3 million Muslims in the United States, and I'm one of them. You've mentioned working
with Muslim nations, but with Islamophobia on the rise, how will you help people like me deal with the consequences of
being labeled as a threat to the country after the election is over?
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump, you're first.
TRUMP: Well, you're right about Islamophobia, and that's a shame. But one thing we have to do is we have to make sure
that—because there is a problem. I mean, whether we like it or not, and we could be very politically correct, but whether
we like it or not, there is a problem. And we have to be sure that Muslims come in and report when they see something
going on. When they see hatred going on, they have to report it.
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As an example, in San Bernardino, many people saw the bombs all over the apartment of the two people that killed 14 and
wounded many, many people. Horribly wounded. They'll never be the same. Muslims have to report the problems when
they see them.
And, you know, there's always a reason for everything. If they don't do that, it's a very difficult situation for our country,
because you look at Orlando and you look at San Bernardino and you look at the World Trade Center. Go outside. Look at
Paris. Look at that horrible—these are radical Islamic terrorists.
And she won't even mention the word and nor will President Obama. He won't use the term "radical Islamic terrorism."
Now, to solve a problem, you have to be able to state what the problem is or at least say the name. She won't say the name
and President Obama won't say the name. But the name is there. It's radical Islamic terror. And before you solve it, you
have to say the name.
RADDATZ: Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Well, thank you for asking your question. And I've heard this question from a lot of Muslim-Americans across
our country, because, unfortunately, there's been a lot of very divisive, dark things said about Muslims. And even someone
like Captain Khan, the young man who sacrificed himself defending our country in the United States Army, has been
subject to attack by Donald.
I want to say just a couple of things. First, we've had Muslims in America since George Washington. And we've had many
successful Muslims. We just lost a particular well-known one with Muhammad Ali.
My vision of America is an America where everyone has a place, if you're willing to work hard, you do your part, you
contribute to the community. That's what America is. That's what we want America to be for our children and our
grandchildren.
It's also very short-sighted and even dangerous to be engaging in the kind of demagogic rhetoric that Donald has about
Muslims. We need American Muslims to be part of our eyes and ears on our front lines. I've worked with a lot of different
Muslim groups around America. I've met with a lot of them, and I've heard how important it is for them to feel that they
are wanted and included and part of our country, part of our homeland security, and that's what I want to see.
It's also important I intend to defeat ISIS, to do so in a coalition with majority Muslim nations. Right now, a lot of those
nations are hearing what Donald says and wondering, why should we cooperate with the Americans? And this is a gift to
ISIS and the terrorists, violent jihadist terrorists.
We are not at war with Islam. And it is a mistake and it plays into the hands of the terrorists to act as though we are. So I
want a country where citizens like you and your family are just as welcome as anyone else.
RADDATZ: Thank you, Secretary Clinton.
Mr. Trump, in December, you said this. "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims
entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. We have no choice.
We have no choice." Your running mate said this week that the Muslim ban is no longer your position. Is that correct? And
if it is, was it a mistake to have a religious test?
TRUMP: First of all, Captain Khan is an American hero, and if I were president at that time, he would be alive today,
because unlike her, who voted for the war without knowing what she was doing, I would not have had our people in Iraq.
Iraq was disaster. So he would have been alive today.
The Muslim ban is something that in some form has morphed into a extreme vetting from certain areas of the world.
Hillary Clinton wants to allow hundreds of thousands—excuse me. Excuse me..
RADDATZ: And why did it morph into that? No, did you—no, answer the question. Do you still believe...
TRUMP: Why don't you interrupt her? You interrupt me all the time.
RADDATZ: I do.
TRUMP: Why don't you interrupt her?
RADDATZ: Would you please explain whether or not the Muslim ban still stands?
TRUMP: It's called extreme vetting. We are going to areas like Syria where they're coming in by the tens of thousands
because of Barack Obama. And Hillary Clinton wants to allow a 550 percent increase over Obama. People are coming into
our country like we have no idea who they are, where they are from, what their feelings about our country is, and she
wants 550 percent more. This is going to be the great Trojan horse of all time.
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We have enough problems in this country. I believe in building safe zones. I believe in having other people pay for them,
as an example, the Gulf states, who are not carrying their weight, but they have nothing but money, and take care of
people. But I don't want to have, with all the problems this country has and all of the problems that you see going on,
hundreds of thousands of people coming in from Syria when we know nothing about them. We know nothing about their
values and we know nothing about their love for our country.
RADDATZ: And, Secretary Clinton, let me ask you about that, because you have asked for an increase from 10,000 to
65,000 Syrian refugees. We know you want tougher vetting. That's not a perfect system. So why take the risk of having
those refugees come into the country?
CLINTON: Well, first of all, I will not let anyone into our country that I think poses a risk to us. But there are a lot of
refugees, women and children—think of that picture we all saw of that 4-year-old boy with the blood on his forehead
because he'd been bombed by the Russian and Syrian air forces.
There are children suffering in this catastrophic war, largely, I believe, because of Russian aggression. And we need to do
our part. We by no means are carrying anywhere near the load that Europe and others are. But we will have vetting that is
as tough as it needs to be from our professionals, our intelligence experts and others.
But it is important for us as a policy, you know, not to say, as Donald has said, we're going to ban people based on a
religion. How do you do that? We are a country founded on religious freedom and liberty. How do we do what he has
advocated without causing great distress within our own county? Are we going to have religious tests when people fly into
our country? And how do we expect to be able to implement those?
So I thought that what he said was extremely unwise and even dangerous. And indeed, you can look at the propaganda on
a lot of the terrorists sites, and what Donald Trump says about Muslims is used to recruit fighters, because they want to
create a war between us.
And the final thing I would say, this is the 10th or 12th time that he's denied being for the war in Iraq. We have it on tape.
The entire press corps has looked at it. It's been debunked, but it never stops him from saying whatever he wants to say.
TRUMP: That's not been debunked.
CLINTON: So, please...
TRUMP: That has not been debunked.
CLINTON: ... go to HillaryClinton.com and you can see it.
TRUMP: I was against—I was against the war in Iraq. Has not been debunked. And you voted for it. And you shouldn't
have. Well, I just want to say...
RADDATZ: There's been lots of fact-checking on that. I'd like to move on to an online question...
TRUMP: Excuse me. She just went about 25 seconds over her time.
RADDATZ: She did not.
TRUMP: Could I just respond to this, please?
RADDATZ: Very quickly, please.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton, in terms of having people come into our country, we have many criminal illegal aliens. When
we want to send them back to their country, their country says we don't want them. In some cases, they're murderers,
drug lords, drug problems. And they don't want them.
And Hillary Clinton, when she was secretary of state, said that's OK, we can't force it into their country. Let me tell you,
I'm going to force them right back into their country. They're murderers and some very bad people.
And I will tell you very strongly, when Bernie Sanders said she had bad judgment, she has really bad judgment, because
we are letting people into this country that are going to cause problems and crime like you've never seen. We're also
letting drugs pour through our southern border at a record clip. At a record clip. And it shouldn't be allowed to happen.
ICE just endorsed me. They've never endorsed a presidential candidate. The Border Patrol agents, 16,500, just recently
endorsed me, and they endorsed me because I understand the border. She doesn't. She wants amnesty for everybody.
Come right in. Come right over. It's a horrible thing she's doing. She's got bad judgment, and honestly, so bad that she
should never be president of the United States. That I can tell you.
RADDATZ: Thank you, Mr. Trump. I want to move on. This next question from the public through the Bipartisan Open
Debate Coalition's online forum, where Americans submitted questions that generated millions of votes. This question
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involves WikiLeaks release of purported excerpts of Secretary Clinton's paid speeches, which she has refused to release,
and one line in particular, in which you, Secretary Clinton, purportedly say you need both a public and private position on
certain issues. So, Tu, from Virginia asks, is it OK for politicians to be two-faced? Is it acceptable for a politician to have a
private stance on issues? Secretary Clinton, your two minutes.
CLINTON: Well, right. As I recall, that was something I said about Abraham Lincoln after having seen the wonderful
Steven Spielberg movie called "Lincoln." It was a master class watching President Lincoln get the Congress to approve the
13th Amendment. It was principled, and it was strategic.
And I was making the point that it is hard sometimes to get the Congress to do what you want to do and you have to keep
working at it. And, yes, President Lincoln was trying to convince some people, he used some arguments, convincing other
people, he used other arguments. That was a great—I thought a great display of presidential leadership.
But, you know, let's talk about what's really going on here, Martha, because our intelligence community just came out and
said in the last few days that the Kremlin, meaning Putin and the Russian government, are directing the attacks, the
hacking on American accounts to influence our election. And WikiLeaks is part of that, as are other sites where the
Russians hack information, we don't even know if it's accurate information, and then they put it out.
We have never in the history of our country been in a situation where an adversary, a foreign power, is working so hard to
influence the outcome of the election. And believe me, they're not doing it to get me elected. They're doing it to try to
influence the election for Donald Trump.
Now, maybe because he has praised Putin, maybe because he says he agrees with a lot of what Putin wants to do, maybe
because he wants to do business in Moscow, I don't know the reasons. But we deserve answers. And we should demand
that Donald release all of his tax returns so that people can see what are the entanglements and the financial relationships
that he has...
RADDATZ: We're going to get to that later. Secretary Clinton, you're out of time.
CLINTON: ... with the Russians and other foreign powers.
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: Well, I think I should respond, because—so ridiculous. Look, now she's blaming—she got caught in a total lie.
Her papers went out to all her friends at the banks, Goldman Sachs and everybody else, and she said things—WikiLeaks
that just came out. And she lied. Now she's blaming the lie on the late, great Abraham Lincoln. That's one that I haven't...
[laughter]
OK, Honest Abe, Honest Abe never lied. That's the good thing. That's the big difference between Abraham Lincoln and
you. That's a big, big difference. We're talking about some difference.
But as far as other elements of what she was saying, I don't know Putin. I think it would be great if we got along with
Russia because we could fight ISIS together, as an example. But I don't know Putin.
But I notice, anytime anything wrong happens, they like to say the Russians are—she doesn't know if it's the Russians
doing the hacking. Maybe there is no hacking. But they always blame Russia. And the reason they blame Russia because
they think they're trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know nothing about Russia. I know—I know about Russia, but I
know nothing about the inner workings of Russia. I don't deal there. I have no businesses there. I have no loans from
Russia.
I have a very, very great balance sheet, so great that when I did the Old Post Office on Pennsylvania Avenue, the United
States government, because of my balance sheet, which they actually know very well, chose me to do the Old Post Office,
between the White House and Congress, chose me to do the Old Post Office. One of the primary area things, in fact,
perhaps the primary thing was balance sheet. But I have no loans with Russia. You could go to the United States
government, and they would probably tell you that, because they know my sheet very well in order to get that
development I had to have.
Now, the taxes are a very simple thing. As soon as I have—first of all, I pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. Many
of her friends took bigger deductions. Warren Buffett took a massive deduction. Soros, who's a friend of hers, took a
massive deduction. Many of the people that are giving her all this money that she can do many more commercials than me
gave her—took massive deductions.
I pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. But—but as soon as my routine audit is finished, I'll release my returns. I'll
be very proud to. They're actually quite great.
RADDATZ: Thank you, Mr. Trump.
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COOPER: We want to turn, actually, to the topic of taxes. We have a question from Spencer Maass. Spencer?
QUESTION: Good evening. My question is, what specific tax provisions will you change to ensure the wealthiest
Americans pay their fair share in taxes?
COOPER: Mr. Trump, you have two minutes.
TRUMP: Well, one thing I'd do is get rid of carried interest. One of the greatest provisions for people like me, to be
honest with you, I give up a lot when I run, because I knock out the tax code. And she could have done this years ago, by
the way. She's a United States—she was a United States senator.
She complains that Donald Trump took advantage of the tax code. Well, why didn't she change it? Why didn't you change
it when you were a senator? The reason you didn't is that all your friends take the same advantage that I do. And I do. You
have provisions in the tax code that, frankly, we could change. But you wouldn't change it, because all of these people gave
you the money so you can take negative ads on Donald Trump.
But—and I say that about a lot of things. You know, I've heard Hillary complaining about so many different things over
the years. "I wish you would have done this." But she's been there for 30 years she's been doing this stuff. She never
changed. And she never will change. She never will change.
We're getting rid of carried interest provisions. I'm lowering taxes actually, because I think it's so important for
corporations, because we have corporations leaving—massive corporations and little ones, little ones can't form. We're
getting rid of regulations which goes hand in hand with the lowering of the taxes.
But we're bringing the tax rate down from 35 percent to 15 percent. We're cutting taxes for the middle class. And I will tell
you, we are cutting them big league for the middle class.
And I will tell you, Hillary Clinton is raising your taxes, folks. You can look at me. She's raising your taxes really high. And
what that's going to do is a disaster for the country. But she is raising your taxes and I'm lowering your taxes. That in itself
is a big difference. We are going to be thriving again. We have no growth in this country. There's no growth. If China has a
GDP of 7 percent, it's like a national catastrophe. We're down at 1 percent. And that's, like, no growth. And we're going
lower, in my opinion. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that our taxes are so high, just about the highest in the world.
And I'm bringing them down to one of the lower in the world. And I think it's so important—one of the most important
things we can do. But she is raising everybody's taxes massively.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, you have two minutes. The question was, what specific tax provisions will you change to
ensure the wealthiest Americans pay their fair share of taxes?
CLINTON: Well, everything you've heard just now from Donald is not true. I'm sorry I have to keep saying this, but he
lives in an alternative reality. And it is sort of amusing to hear somebody who hasn't paid federal income taxes in maybe
20 years talking about what he's going to do.
But I'll tell you what he's going to do. His plan will give the wealthy and corporations the biggest tax cuts they've ever had,
more than the Bush tax cuts by at least a factor of two. Donald always takes care of Donald and people like Donald, and
this would be a massive gift. And, indeed, the way that he talks about his tax cuts would end up raising taxes on middleclass families, millions of middle-class families.
Now, here's what I want to do. I have said nobody who makes less than $250,000 a year—and that's the vast majority of
Americans as you know—will have their taxes raised, because I think we've got to go where the money is. And the money is
with people who have taken advantage of every single break in the tax code.
And, yes, when I was a senator, I did vote to close corporate loopholes. I voted to close, I think, one of the loopholes he
took advantage of when he claimed a billion-dollar loss that enabled him to avoid paying taxes.
I want to have a tax on people who are making a million dollars. It's called the Buffett rule. Yes, Warren Buffett is the one
who's gone out and said somebody like him should not be paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. I want to have a
surcharge on incomes above $5 million.
We have to make up for lost times, because I want to invest in you. I want to invest in hard-working families. And I think
it's been unfortunate, but it's happened, that since the Great Recession, the gains have all gone to the top. And we need to
reverse that.
People like Donald, who paid zero in taxes, zero for our vets, zero for our military, zero for health and education, that is
wrong.
COOPER: Thank you, Secretary.
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CLINTON: And we're going to make sure that nobody, no corporation, and no individual can get away without paying his
fair share to support our country.
COOPER: Thank you. I want to give you—Mr. Trump, I want to give you the chance to respond. I just wanted to tell our
viewers what she's referring to. In the last month, taxes were the number-one issue on Facebook for the first time in the
campaign. The New York Times published three pages of your 1995 tax returns. They show you claimed a $916 million
loss, which means you could have avoided paying personal federal income taxes for years. You've said you pay state taxes,
employee taxes, real estate taxes, property taxes. You have not answered, though, a simple question. Did you use that
$916 million loss to avoid paying personal federal income taxes for years?
TRUMP: Of course I do. Of course I do. And so do all of her donors, or most of her donors. I know many of her donors.
Her donors took massive tax write-offs.
COOPER: So have you paid personal federal income tax?
TRUMP: A lot of my—excuse me, Anderson—a lot of my write- off was depreciation and other things that Hillary as a
senator allowed. And she'll always allow it, because the people that give her all this money, they want it. That's why.
See, I understand the tax code better than anybody that's ever run for president. Hillary Clinton—and it's extremely
complex—Hillary Clinton has friends that want all of these provisions, including they want the carried interest provision,
which is very important to Wall Street people. But they really want the carried interest provision, which I believe Hillary's
leaving. Very interesting why she's leaving carried interest.
But I will tell you that, number one, I pay tremendous numbers of taxes. I absolutely used it. And so did Warren Buffett
and so did George Soros and so did many of the other people that Hillary is getting money from. Now, I won't mention
their names, because they're rich, but they're not famous. So we won't make them famous.
COOPER: So can you—can you say how many years you have avoided paying personal federal income taxes?
TRUMP: No, but I pay tax, and I pay federal tax, too. But I have a write-off, a lot of it's depreciation, which is a wonderful
charge. I love depreciation. You know, she's given it to us.
Hey, if she had a problem—for 30 years she's been doing this, Anderson. I say it all the time. She talks about health care.
Why didn't she do something about it? She talks about taxes. Why didn't she do something about it? She doesn't do
anything about anything other than talk. With her, it's all talk and no action.
COOPER: In the past...
TRUMP: And, again, Bernie Sanders, it's really bad judgment. She has made bad judgment not only on taxes. She's made
bad judgments on Libya, on Syria, on Iraq. I mean, her and Obama, whether you like it or not, the way they got out of
Iraq, the vacuum they've left, that's why ISIS formed in the first place. They started from that little area, and now they're
in 32 different nations, Hillary. Congratulations. Great job.
COOPER: Secretary—I want you to be able to respond, Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Well, here we go again. I've been in favor of getting rid of carried interest for years, starting when I was a
senator from New York. But that's not the point here.
TRUMP: Why didn't you do it? Why didn't you do it?
COOPER: Allow her to respond.
CLINTON: Because I was a senator with a Republican president.
TRUMP: Oh, really?
CLINTON: I will be the president and we will get it done. That's exactly right.
TRUMP: You could have done it, if you were an effective—if you were an effective senator, you could have done it. If you
were an effective senator, you could have done it. But you were not an effective senator.
COOPER: Please allow her to respond. She didn't interrupt you.
CLINTON: You know, under our Constitution, presidents have something called veto power. Look, he has now said
repeatedly, "30 years this and 30 years that." So let me talk about my 30 years in public service. I'm very glad to do so.
Eight million kids every year have health insurance, because when I was first lady I worked with Democrats and
Republicans to create the Children's Health Insurance Program. Hundreds of thousands of kids now have a chance to be
adopted because I worked to change our adoption and foster care system. After 9/11, I went to work with Republican
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mayor, governor and president to rebuild New York and to get health care for our first responders who were suffering
because they had run toward danger and gotten sickened by it. Hundreds of thousands of National Guard and Reserve
members have health care because of work that I did, and children have safer medicines because I was able to pass a law
that required the dosing to be more carefully done.
When I was secretary of state, I went around the world advocating for our country, but also advocating for women's rights,
to make sure that women had a decent chance to have a better life and negotiated a treaty with Russia to lower nuclear
weapons. Four hundred pieces of legislation have my name on it as a sponsor or cosponsor when I was a senator for eight
years.
I worked very hard and was very proud to be re-elected in New York by an even bigger margin than I had been elected the
first time. And as president, I will take that work, that bipartisan work, that finding common ground, because you have to
be able to get along with people to get things done in Washington.
COOPER: Thank you, secretary.
CLINTON: I've proven that I can, and for 30 years, I've produced results for people.
COOPER: Thank you, secretary.
RADDATZ: We're going to move on to Syria. Both of you have mentioned that.
TRUMP: She said a lot of things that were false. I mean, I think we should be allowed to maybe...
RADDATZ: No, we can—no, Mr. Trump, we're going to go on. This is about the audience.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Because she has been a disaster as a senator. A disaster.
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump, we're going to move on. The heart-breaking video of a 5-year-old Syrian boy named Omran
sitting in an ambulance after being pulled from the rubble after an air strike in Aleppo focused the world's attention on the
horrors of the war in Syria, with 136 million views on Facebook alone.
But there are much worse images coming out of Aleppo every day now, where in the past few weeks alone, 400 people
have been killed, at least 100 of them children. Just days ago, the State Department called for a war crimes investigation
of the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad and its ally, Russia, for their bombardment of Aleppo.
So this next question comes through social media through Facebook. Diane from Pennsylvania asks, if you were president,
what would you do about Syria and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo? Isn't it a lot like the Holocaust when the U.S.
waited too long before we helped? Secretary Clinton, we will begin with your two minutes.
CLINTON: Well, the situation in Syria is catastrophic. And every day that goes by, we see the results of the regime by
Assad in partnership with the Iranians on the ground, the Russians in the air, bombarding places, in particular Aleppo,
where there are hundreds of thousands of people, probably about 250,000 still left. And there is a determined effort by
the Russian air force to destroy Aleppo in order to eliminate the last of the Syrian rebels who are really holding out against
the Assad regime.
Russia hasn't paid any attention to ISIS. They're interested in keeping Assad in power. So I, when I was secretary of state,
advocated and I advocate today a no-fly zone and safe zones. We need some leverage with the Russians, because they are
not going to come to the negotiating table for a diplomatic resolution, unless there is some leverage over them. And we
have to work more closely with our partners and allies on the ground.
But I want to emphasize that what is at stake here is the ambitions and the aggressiveness of Russia. Russia has decided
that it's all in, in Syria. And they've also decided who they want to see become president of the United States, too, and it's
not me. I've stood up to Russia. I've taken on Putin and others, and I would do that as president.
I think wherever we can cooperate with Russia, that's fine. And I did as secretary of state. That's how we got a treaty
reducing nuclear weapons. It's how we got the sanctions on Iran that put a lid on the Iranian nuclear program without
firing a single shot. So I would go to the negotiating table with more leverage than we have now. But I do support the
effort to investigate for crimes, war crimes committed by the Syrians and the Russians and try to hold them accountable.
RADDATZ: Thank you, Secretary Clinton. Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: First of all, she was there as secretary of state with the so-called line in the sand, which...
CLINTON: No, I wasn't. I was gone. I hate to interrupt you, but at some point...
TRUMP: OK. But you were in contact—excuse me. You were...
CLINTON: At some point, we need to do some fact-checking here.
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TRUMP: You were in total contact with the White House, and perhaps, sadly, Obama probably still listened to you. I
don't think he would be listening to you very much anymore.
Obama draws the line in the sand. It was laughed at all over the world what happened.
Now, with that being said, she talks tough against Russia. But our nuclear program has fallen way behind, and they've
gone wild with their nuclear program. Not good. Our government shouldn't have allowed that to happen. Russia is new in
terms of nuclear. We are old. We're tired. We're exhausted in terms of nuclear. A very bad thing.
Now, she talks tough, she talks really tough against Putin and against Assad. She talks in favor of the rebels. She doesn't
even know who the rebels are. You know, every time we take rebels, whether it's in Iraq or anywhere else, we're arming
people. And you know what happens? They end up being worse than the people.
Look at what she did in Libya with Gadhafi. Gadhafi's out. It's a mess. And, by the way, ISIS has a good chunk of their oil.
I'm sure you probably have heard that. It was a disaster. Because the fact is, almost everything she's done in foreign policy
has been a mistake and it's been a disaster.
But if you look at Russia, just take a look at Russia, and look at what they did this week, where I agree, she wasn't there,
but possibly she's consulted. We sign a peace treaty. Everyone's all excited. Well, what Russia did with Assad and, by the
way, with Iran, who you made very powerful with the dumbest deal perhaps I've ever seen in the history of deal-making,
the Iran deal, with the $150 billion, with the $1.7 billion in cash, which is enough to fill up this room.
But look at that deal. Iran now and Russia are now against us. So she wants to fight. She wants to fight for rebels. There's
only one problem. You don't even know who the rebels are. So what's the purpose?
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, your two minutes is up.
TRUMP: And one thing I have to say.
RADDATZ: Your two minutes is up.
TRUMP: I don't like Assad at all, but Assad is killing ISIS. Russia is killing ISIS. And Iran is killing ISIS. And those three
have now lined up because of our weak foreign policy.
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump, let me repeat the question. If you were president...[laughter]...what would you do about Syria
and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo? And I want to remind you what your running mate said. He said provocations by
Russia need to be met with American strength and that if Russia continues to be involved in air strikes along with the
Syrian government forces of Assad, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike the
military targets of the Assad regime.
TRUMP: OK. He and I haven't spoken, and I disagree. I disagree.
RADDATZ: You disagree with your running mate?
TRUMP: I think you have to knock out ISIS. Right now, Syria is fighting ISIS. We have people that want to fight both at
the same time. But Syria is no longer Syria. Syria is Russia and it's Iran, who she made strong and Kerry and Obama made
into a very powerful nation and a very rich nation, very, very quickly, very, very quickly.
I believe we have to get ISIS. We have to worry about ISIS before we can get too much more involved. She had a chance to
do something with Syria. They had a chance. And that was the line. And she didn't.
RADDATZ: What do you think will happen if Aleppo falls?
TRUMP: I think Aleppo is a disaster, humanitarian-wise.
RADDATZ: What do you think will happen if it falls?
TRUMP: I think that it basically has fallen. OK? It basically has fallen. Let me tell you something. You take a look at
Mosul. The biggest problem I have with the stupidity of our foreign policy, we have Mosul. They think a lot of the ISIS
leaders are in Mosul. So we have announcements coming out of Washington and coming out of Iraq, we will be attacking
Mosul in three weeks or four weeks.
Well, all of these bad leaders from ISIS are leaving Mosul. Why can't they do it quietly? Why can't they do the attack, make
it a sneak attack, and after the attack is made, inform the American public that we've knocked out the leaders, we've had a
tremendous success? People leave. Why do they have to say we're going to be attacking Mosul within the next four to six
weeks, which is what they're saying? How stupid is our country?
RADDATZ: There are sometimes reasons the military does that. Psychological warfare.
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TRUMP: I can't think of any. I can't think of any. And I'm pretty good at it.
RADDATZ: It might be to help get civilians out.
TRUMP: And we have General Flynn. And we have—look, I have 200 generals and admirals who endorsed me. I have 21
Congressional Medal of Honor recipients who endorsed me. We talk about it all the time. They understand, why can't they
do something secretively, where they go in and they knock out the leadership? How—why would these people stay there?
I've been reading now...
RADDATZ: Tell me what your strategy is.
TRUMP: ... for weeks—I've been reading now for weeks about Mosul, that it's the harbor of where—you know, between
Raqqa and Mosul, this is where they think the ISIS leaders are. Why would they be saying—they're not staying there
anymore. They're gone. Because everybody's talking about how Iraq, which is us with our leadership, goes in to fight
Mosul.
Now, with these 200 admirals and generals, they can't believe it. All I say is this. General George Patton, General Douglas
MacArthur are spinning in their grave at the stupidity of what we're doing in the Middle East.
RADDATZ: I'm going to go to Secretary Clinton. Secretary Clinton, you want Assad to go. You advocated arming rebels,
but it looks like that may be too late for Aleppo. You talk about diplomatic efforts. Those have failed. Cease-fires have
failed. Would you introduce the threat of U.S. military force beyond a no-fly zone against the Assad regime to back up
diplomacy?
CLINTON: I would not use American ground forces in Syria. I think that would be a very serious mistake. I don't think
American troops should be holding territory, which is what they would have to do as an occupying force. I don't think that
is a smart strategy.
I do think the use of special forces, which we're using, the use of enablers and trainers in Iraq, which has had some
positive effects, are very much in our interests, and so I do support what is happening, but let me just...
RADDATZ: But what would you do differently than President Obama is doing?
CLINTON: Well, Martha, I hope that by the time I—if I'm fortunate...
TRUMP: Everything.
CLINTON: I hope by the time I am president that we will have pushed ISIS out of Iraq. I do think that there is a good
chance that we can take Mosul. And, you know, Donald says he knows more about ISIS than the generals. No, he doesn't.
There are a lot of very important planning going on, and some of it is to signal to the Sunnis in the area, as well as Kurdish
Peshmerga fighters, that we all need to be in this. And that takes a lot of planning and preparation.
I would go after Baghdadi. I would specifically target Baghdadi, because I think our targeting of Al Qaida leaders—and I
was involved in a lot of those operations, highly classified ones—made a difference. So I think that could help.
I would also consider arming the Kurds. The Kurds have been our best partners in Syria, as well as Iraq. And I know
there's a lot of concern about that in some circles, but I think they should have the equipment they need so that Kurdish
and Arab fighters on the ground are the principal way that we take Raqqa after pushing ISIS out of Iraq.
RADDATZ: Thank you very much. We're going to move on...
TRUMP: You know what's funny? She went over a minute over, and you don't stop her. When I go one second over, it's
like a big deal.
RADDATZ: You had many answers.
TRUMP: It's really—it's really very interesting.
COOPER: We've got a question over here from James Carter. Mr. Carter?
QUESTION: My question is, do you believe you can be a devoted president to all the people in the United States?
COOPER: That question begins for Mr. Trump.
TRUMP: Absolutely. I mean, she calls our people deplorable, a large group, and irredeemable. I will be a president for all
of our people. And I'll be a president that will turn our inner cities around and will give strength to people and will give
economics to people and will bring jobs back.
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Because NAFTA, signed by her husband, is perhaps the greatest disaster trade deal in the history of the world. Not in this
country. It stripped us of manufacturing jobs. We lost our jobs. We lost our money. We lost our plants. It is a disaster. And
now she wants to sign TPP, even though she says now she's for it. She called it the gold standard. And by the way, at the
last debate, she lied, because it turned out that she did say the gold standard and she said she didn't say it. They actually
said that she lied. OK? And she lied. But she's lied about a lot of things.
I would be a president for all of the people, African-Americans, the inner cities. Devastating what's happening to our inner
cities. She's been talking about it for years. As usual, she talks about it, nothing happens. She doesn't get it done.
Same with the Latino Americans, the Hispanic Americans. The same exact thing. They talk, they don't get it done. You go
into the inner cities and—you see it's 45 percent poverty. African- Americans now 45 percent poverty in the inner cities.
The education is a disaster. Jobs are essentially nonexistent.
I mean, it's—you know, and I've been saying at big speeches where I have 20,000 and 30,000 people, what do you have to
lose? It can't get any worse. And she's been talking about the inner cities for 25 years. Nothing's going to ever happen.
Let me tell you, if she's president of the United States, nothing's going to happen. It's just going to be talk. And all of her
friends, the taxes we were talking about, and I would just get it by osmosis. She's not doing any me favors. But by doing all
the others' favors, she's doing me favors.
COOPER: Mr. Trump, thank you.
TRUMP: But I will tell you, she's all talk. It doesn't get done. All you have to do is take a look at her Senate run. Take a
look at upstate New York.
COOPER: Your two minutes is up. Secretary Clinton, two minutes?
TRUMP: It turned out to be a disaster.
COOPER: You have two minutes, Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Well, 67 percent of the people voted to re-elect me when I ran for my second term, and I was very proud and
very humbled by that.
Mr. Carter, I have tried my entire life to do what I can to support children and families. You know, right out of law school,
I went to work for the Children's Defense Fund. And Donald talks a lot about, you know, the 30 years I've been in public
service. I'm proud of that. You know, I started off as a young lawyer working against discrimination against AfricanAmerican children in schools and in the criminal justice system. I worked to make sure that kids with disabilities could get
a public education, something that I care very much about. I have worked with Latinos—one of my first jobs in politics
was down in south Texas registering Latino citizens to be able to vote. So I have a deep devotion, to use your absolutely
correct word, to making sure that an every American feels like he or she has a place in our country.
And I think when you look at the letters that I get, a lot of people are worried that maybe they wouldn't have a place in
Donald Trump's America. They write me, and one woman wrote me about her son, Felix. She adopted him from Ethiopia
when he was a toddler. He's 10 years old now. This is the only one country he's ever known. And he listens to Donald on
TV and he said to his mother one day, will he send me back to Ethiopia if he gets elected?
You know, children listen to what is being said. To go back to the very, very first question. And there's a lot of fear—in fact,
teachers and parents are calling it the Trump effect. Bullying is up. A lot of people are feeling, you know, uneasy. A lot of
kids are expressing their concerns.
So, first and foremost, I will do everything I can to reach out to everybody.
COOPER: Your time, Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Democrats, Republicans, independents, people across our country. If you don't vote for me, I still want to be
your president.
COOPER: Your two minutes is up.
CLINTON: I want to be the best president I can be for every American.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, your two minutes is up. I want to follow up on something that Donald Trump actually said
to you, a comment you made last month. You said that half of Donald Trump's supporters are, quote, "deplorables, racist,
sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic." You later said you regretted saying half. You didn't express regret for
using the term "deplorables." To Mr. Carter's question, how can you unite a country if you've written off tens of millions of
Americans?
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CLINTON: Well, within hours I said that I was sorry about the way I talked about that, because my argument is not with
his supporters. It's with him and with the hateful and divisive campaign that he has run, and the inciting of violence at his
rallies, and the very brutal kinds of comments about not just women, but all Americans, all kinds of Americans.
And what he has said about African-Americans and Latinos, about Muslims, about POWs, about immigrants, about
people with disabilities, he's never apologized for. And so I do think that a lot of the tone and tenor that he has said—I'm
proud of the campaign that Bernie Sanders and I ran. We ran a campaign based on issues, not insults. And he is
supporting me 100 percent.
COOPER: Thank you.
CLINTON: Because we talked about what we wanted to do. We might have had some differences, and we had a lot of
debates...
COOPER: Thank you, Secretary.
TRUMP: ... but we believed that we could make the country better. And I was proud of that.
COOPER: I want to give you a minute to respond.
TRUMP: We have a divided nation. We have a very divided nation. You look at Charlotte. You look at Baltimore. You
look at the violence that's taking place in the inner cities, Chicago, you take a look at Washington, D.C.
We have an increase in murder within our cities, the biggest in 45 years. We have a divided nation, because people like
her—and believe me, she has tremendous hate in her heart. And when she said deplorables, she meant it. And when she
said irredeemable, they're irredeemable, you didn't mention that, but when she said they're irredeemable, to me that
might have been even worse.
COOPER: She said some of them are irredeemable.
TRUMP: She's got tremendous—she's got tremendous hatred. And this country cannot take another four years of Barack
Obama, and that's what you're getting with her.
COOPER: Mr. Trump, let me follow up with you. In 2008, you wrote in one of your books that the most important
characteristic of a good leader is discipline. You said, if a leader doesn't have it, quote, "he or she won't be one for very
long." In the days after the first debate, you sent out a series of tweets from 3 a.m. to 5 a.m., including one that told people
to check out a sex tape. Is that the discipline of a good leader?
TRUMP: No, there wasn't check out a sex tape. It was just take a look at the person that she built up to be this wonderful
Girl Scout who was no Girl Scout.
COOPER: You mentioned sex tape.
TRUMP: By the way, just so you understand, when she said 3 o'clock in the morning, take a look at Benghazi. She said
who is going to answer the call at 3 o'clock in the morning? Guess what? She didn't answer it, because when Ambassador
Stevens...
COOPER: The question is, is that the discipline of a good leader?
TRUMP: ... 600—wait a minute, Anderson, 600 times. Well, she said she was awake at 3 o'clock in the morning, and she
also sent a tweet out at 3 o'clock in the morning, but I won't even mention that. But she said she'll be awake. Who's
going—the famous thing, we're going to answer our call at 3 o'clock in the morning. Guess what happened? Ambassador
Stevens—Ambassador Stevens sent 600 requests for help. And the only one she talked to was Sidney Blumenthal, who's
her friend and not a good guy, by the way. So, you know, she shouldn't be talking about that.
Now, tweeting happens to be a modern day form of communication. I mean, you can like it or not like it. I have, between
Facebook and Twitter, I have almost 25 million people. It's a very effective way of communication. So you can put it down,
but it is a very effective form of communication. I'm not un-proud of it, to be honest with you.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, does Mr. Trump have the discipline to be a good leader?
CLINTON: No.
TRUMP: I'm shocked to hear that. [laughter]
CLINTON: Well, it's not only my opinion. It's the opinion of many others, national security experts, Republicans, former
Republican members of Congress. But it's in part because those of us who have had the great privilege of seeing this job up
close and know how difficult it is, and it's not just because I watched my husband take a $300 billion deficit and turn it
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into a $200 billion surplus, and 23 million new jobs were created, and incomes went up for everybody. Everybody.
African-American incomes went up 33 percent.
And it's not just because I worked with George W. Bush after 9/11, and I was very proud that when I told him what the city
needed, what we needed to recover, he said you've got it, and he never wavered. He stuck with me.
And I have worked and I admire President Obama. He inherited the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. That
was a terrible time for our country.
COOPER: We have to move along.
CLINTON: Nine million people lost their jobs.
RADDATZ: Secretary Clinton, we have to...
CLINTON: Five million homes were lost.
RADDATZ: Secretary Clinton, we're moving.
CLINTON: And $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out. We are back on the right track. He would send us back into
recession with his tax plans that benefit the wealthiest of Americans.
RADDATZ: Secretary Clinton, we are moving to an audience question. We're almost out of time. We have another...
TRUMP: We have the slowest growth since 1929.
RADDATZ: We're moving to an audience question.
TRUMP: It is—our country has the slowest growth and jobs are a disaster.
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump, Secretary Clinton, we want to get to the audience. Thank you very much both of you. [laughter]
We have another audience question. Beth Miller has a question for both candidates.
QUESTION: Good evening. Perhaps the most important aspect of this election is the Supreme Court justice. What would
you prioritize as the most important aspect of selecting a Supreme Court justice?
RADDATZ: We begin with your two minutes, Secretary Clinton.
CLINTON: Thank you. Well, you're right. This is one of the most important issues in this election. I want to appoint
Supreme Court justices who understand the way the world really works, who have real-life experience, who have not just
been in a big law firm and maybe clerked for a judge and then gotten on the bench, but, you know, maybe they tried some
more cases, they actually understand what people are up against.
Because I think the current court has gone in the wrong direction. And so I would want to see the Supreme Court reverse
Citizens United and get dark, unaccountable money out of our politics. Donald doesn't agree with that.
I would like the Supreme Court to understand that voting rights are still a big problem in many parts of our country, that
we don't always do everything we can to make it possible for people of color and older people and young people to be able
to exercise their franchise. I want a Supreme Court that will stick with Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to choose, and I
want a Supreme Court that will stick with marriage equality.
Now, Donald has put forth the names of some people that he would consider. And among the ones that he has suggested
are people who would reverse Roe v. Wade and reverse marriage equality. I think that would be a terrible mistake and
would take us backwards.
I want a Supreme Court that doesn't always side with corporate interests. I want a Supreme Court that understands
because you're wealthy and you can give more money to something doesn't mean you have any more rights or should have
any more rights than anybody else.
So I have very clear views about what I want to see to kind of change the balance on the Supreme Court. And I regret
deeply that the Senate has not done its job and they have not permitted a vote on the person that President Obama, a
highly qualified person, they've not given him a vote to be able to be have the full complement of nine Supreme Court
justices. I think that was a dereliction of duty.
I hope that they will see their way to doing it, but if I am so fortunate enough as to be president, I will immediately move
to make sure that we fill that, we have nine justices that get to work on behalf of our people.
RADDATZ: Thank you, Secretary Clinton. Thank you. You're out of time. Mr. Trump?
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TRUMP: Justice Scalia, great judge, died recently. And we have a vacancy. I am looking to appoint judges very much in
the mold of Justice Scalia. I'm looking for judges—and I've actually picked 20 of them so that people would see, highly
respected, highly thought of, and actually very beautifully reviewed by just about everybody.
But people that will respect the Constitution of the United States. And I think that this is so important. Also, the Second
Amendment, which is totally under siege by people like Hillary Clinton. They'll respect the Second Amendment and what
it stands for, what it represents. So important to me.
Now, Hillary mentioned something about contributions just so you understand. So I will have in my race more than $100
million put in—of my money, meaning I'm not taking all of this big money from all of these different corporations like
she's doing. What I ask is this.
So I'm putting in more than—by the time it's finished, I'll have more than $100 million invested. Pretty much self-funding
money. We're raising money for the Republican Party, and we're doing tremendously on the small donations, $61 average
or so.
I ask Hillary, why doesn't—she made $250 million by being in office. She used the power of her office to make a lot of
money. Why isn't she funding, not for $100 million, but why don't you put $10 million or $20 million or $25 million or
$30 million into your own campaign?
It's $30 million less for special interests that will tell you exactly what to do and it would really, I think, be a nice sign to
the American public. Why aren't you putting some money in? You have a lot of it. You've made a lot of it because of the
fact that you've been in office. Made a lot of it while you were secretary of state, actually. So why aren't you putting money
into your own campaign? I'm just curious.
CLINTON: Well...[crosstalk]
RADDATZ: Thank you very much. We're going to get on to one more question.
CLINTON: The question was about the Supreme Court. And I just want to quickly say, I respect the Second Amendment.
But I believe there should be comprehensive background checks, and we should close the gun show loophole, and close
the online loophole.
COOPER: Thank you.
RADDATZ: We have—we have one more question, Mrs. Clinton.
CLINTON: We have to save as many lives as we possibly can.
COOPER: We have one more question from Ken Bone about energy policy. Ken?
QUESTION: What steps will your energy policy take to meet our energy needs, while at the same time remaining
environmentally friendly and minimizing job loss for fossil power plant workers?
COOPER: Mr. Trump, two minutes?
TRUMP: Absolutely. I think it's such a great question, because energy is under siege by the Obama administration.
Under absolutely siege. The EPA, Environmental Protection Agency, is killing these energy companies. And foreign
companies are now coming in buying our—buying so many of our different plants and then re-jiggering the plant so that
they can take care of their oil.
We are killing—absolutely killing our energy business in this country. Now, I'm all for alternative forms of energy,
including wind, including solar, et cetera. But we need much more than wind and solar.
And you look at our miners. Hillary Clinton wants to put all the miners out of business. There is a thing called clean coal.
Coal will last for 1,000 years in this country. Now we have natural gas and so many other things because of technology.
We have unbelievable—we have found over the last seven years, we have found tremendous wealth right under our feet.
So good. Especially when you have $20 trillion in debt.
I will bring our energy companies back. They'll be able to compete. They'll make money. They'll pay off our national debt.
They'll pay off our tremendous budget deficits, which are tremendous. But we are putting our energy companies out of
business. We have to bring back our workers.
You take a look at what's happening to steel and the cost of steel and China dumping vast amounts of steel all over the
United States, which essentially is killing our steelworkers and our steel companies. We have to guard our energy
companies. We have to make it possible.
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The EPA is so restrictive that they are putting our energy companies out of business. And all you have to do is go to a great
place like West Virginia or places like Ohio, which is phenomenal, or places like Pennsylvania and you see what they're
doing to the people, miners and others in the energy business. It's a disgrace.
COOPER: Your time is up. Thank you.
TRUMP: It's an absolute disgrace.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, two minutes.
CLINTON: And actually—well, that was very interesting. First of all, China is illegally dumping steel in the United States
and Donald Trump is buying it to build his buildings, putting steelworkers and American steel plants out of business.
That's something that I fought against as a senator and that I would have a trade prosecutor to make sure that we don't get
taken advantage of by China on steel or anything else.
You know, because it sounds like you're in the business or you're aware of people in the business—you know that we are
now for the first time ever energy-independent. We are not dependent upon the Middle East. But the Middle East still
controls a lot of the prices. So the price of oil has been way down. And that has had a damaging effect on a lot of the oil
companies, right? We are, however, producing a lot of natural gas, which serves as a bridge to more renewable fuels. And I
think that's an important transition.
We've got to remain energy-independent. It gives us much more power and freedom than to be worried about what goes
on in the Middle East. We have enough worries over there without having to worry about that.
So I have a comprehensive energy policy, but it really does include fighting climate change, because I think that is a
serious problem. And I support moving toward more clean, renewable energy as quickly as we can, because I think we can
be the 21st century clean energy superpower and create millions of new jobs and businesses.
But I also want to be sure that we don't leave people behind. That's why I'm the only candidate from the very beginning of
this campaign who had a plan to help us revitalize coal country, because those coal miners and their fathers and their
grandfathers, they dug that coal out. A lot of them lost their lives. They were injured, but they turned the lights on and
they powered their factories. I don't want to walk away from them. So we've got to do something for them.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton...
CLINTON: But the price of coal is down worldwide. So we have to look at this comprehensively.
COOPER: Your time is up.
CLINTON: And that's exactly what I have proposed. I hope you will go to HillaryClinton.com and look at my entire
policy.
COOPER: Time is up. We have time for one more...
RADDATZ: We have...
COOPER: One more audience question.
RADDATZ: We've sneaked in one more question, and it comes from Karl Becker.
QUESTION: Good evening. My question to both of you is, regardless of the current rhetoric, would either of you name
one positive thing that you respect in one another? [applause]
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump, would you like to go first?
CLINTON: Well, I certainly will, because I think that's a very fair and important question. Look, I respect his children.
His children are incredibly able and devoted, and I think that says a lot about Donald. I don't agree with nearly anything
else he says or does, but I do respect that. And I think that is something that as a mother and a grandmother is very
important to me.
So I believe that this election has become in part so—so conflict-oriented, so intense because there's a lot at stake. This is
not an ordinary time, and this is not an ordinary election. We are going to be choosing a president who will set policy for
not just four or eight years, but because of some of the important decisions we have to make here at home and around the
world, from the Supreme Court to energy and so much else, and so there is a lot at stake. It's one of the most
consequential elections that we've had.
And that's why I've tried to put forth specific policies and plans, trying to get it off of the personal and put it on to what it
is I want to do as president. And that's why I hope people will check on that for themselves so that they can see that, yes,
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=119038
3/12/2017
Presidential Candidates Debates: Presidential Debate at Washington University in St. L... Page 22 of 22
I've spent 30 years, actually maybe a little more, working to help kids and families. And I want to take all that experience
to the White House and do that every single day.
RADDATZ: Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: Well, I consider her statement about my children to be a very nice compliment. I don't know if it was meant to
be a compliment, but it is a great—I'm very proud of my children. And they've done a wonderful job, and they've been
wonderful, wonderful kids. So I consider that a compliment.
I will say this about Hillary. She doesn't quit. She doesn't give up. I respect that. I tell it like it is. She's a fighter. I disagree
with much of what she's fighting for. I do disagree with her judgment in many cases. But she does fight hard, and she
doesn't quit, and she doesn't give up. And I consider that to be a very good trait.
RADDATZ: Thanks to both of you.
COOPER: We want to thank both the candidates. We want to thank the university here. This concludes the town hall
meeting. Our thanks to the candidates, the commission, Washington University, and to everybody who watched.
RADDATZ: Please tune in on October 19th for the final presidential debate that will take place at the University of
Nevada, Las Vegas. Good night, everyone.
Citation: Presidential Candidates Debates: "Presidential Debate at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri," October 9, 2016. Online by Gerhard
Peters and John T. Woolley, The American Presidency Project. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=119038.
Home
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© 1999-2017 - Gerhard Peters and John T. Woolley - The American Presidency Project
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 15
On Wednesday, Jan. 25, 2017, ABC News "World News Tonight" anchor David Muir interviewed
President Donald Trump in the White House. The following is a transcript of the interview:
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, it's an honor to be here at the White House.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Thank you very much, David.
DAVID MUIR: Let me ask you, has the magnitude of this job hit you yet?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: It has periodically hit me. And it is a tremendous magnitude. And where
you really see it is when you're talking to the generals about problems in the world. And we do
have problems in the world. Big problems. The business also hits because the ‐‐ the size of it.
The size.
I was with the Ford yesterday. And with General Motors yesterday. The top representatives,
great people. And they're gonna do some tremendous work in the United States. They're gonna
build plants back in the United States. But when you see the size, even as a businessman, the
size of the investment that these big companies are gonna make, it hits you even in that regard.
But we're gonna bring jobs back to America, like I promised on the campaign trail.
DAVID MUIR: And we're gonna get to it all right here.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Good.
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, I want to start ‐‐ we're five days in. And your campaign promises. I
know today you plan on signing the order to build the wall.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Correct.
DAVID MUIR: Are you going to direct U.S. funds to pay for this wall? Will American taxpayers
pay for the wall?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Ultimately it'll come out of what's happening with Mexico. We're gonna be
starting those negotiations relatively soon. And we will be in a form reimbursed by Mexico
which I will say ...
DAVID MUIR: So, they'll pay us back?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Yeah, absolutely, 100 percent.
DAVID MUIR: So, the American taxpayer will pay for the wall at first?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: All it is, is we'll be reimbursed at a later date from whatever transaction we
make from Mexico. Now, I could wait a year and I could hold off the wall. But I wanna build the
wall. We have to build the wall. We have to stop drugs from pouring in. We have to stop people
from just pouring into our country. We have no idea where they're from. And I campaigned on
the wall. And it's very important. But that wall will cost us nothing.
DAVID MUIR: But you talked ‐‐ often about Mexico paying for the wall. And you, again, say
they'll pay us back. Mexico's president said in recent days that Mexico absolutely will not pay,
adding that, "It goes against our dignity as a country and our dignity as Mexicans." He says ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: David, he has to say that. He has to say that. But I'm just telling you there
will be a payment. It will be in a form, perhaps a complicated form. And you have to understand
what I'm doing is good for the United States. It's also going to be good for Mexico.
We wanna have a very stable, very solid Mexico. Even more solid than it is right now. And they
need it also. Lots of things are coming across Mexico that they don't want. I think it's going to
be a good thing for both countries. And I think the relationship will be better than ever before.
You know, when we had a prisoner in Mexico, as you know, two years ago, that we were trying
to get out. And Mexico was not helping us, I will tell you, those days are over. I think we're
gonna end up with a much better relationship with Mexico. We will have the wall and in a very
serious form Mexico will pay for the wall.
DAVID MUIR: What are you gonna say to some of your supporters who might say, "Wait a
minute, I thought Mexico was going to pay for this right at the start."
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I'd say very simply that they are going to pay for it. I never said
they're gonna pay from the start. I said Mexico will pay for the wall. But what I will tell my
supporters is, "Would you like me to wait two years or three years before I make this deal?"
Because we have to make a deal on NAFTA. We have to make a new trade deal with Mexico
because we're getting clobbered.
We have a $60‐billion trade deficit. So, if you want, I can wait two years and then we can do it
nice and easily. I wanna start the wall immediately. Every supporter I have ‐‐ I have had so many
people calling and tweeting and ‐‐ and writing letters saying they're so happy about it. I wanna
start the wall. We will be reimbursed for the wall.
DAVID MUIR: When does construction begin?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: As soon as we can. As soon as we can physically do it. We're ...
DAVID MUIR: Within months?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I would say in months. Yeah, I would say in months. Certainly planning is
starting immediately.
DAVID MUIR: People feel ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We'll be having some really good, really solid plans within a short period of
time.
DAVID MUIR: When people learn of the news of this wall today there are gonna be a lot of
people listening to this. And I wanna ask about undocumented immigrants who are here ‐‐ in
this country. Right now they're protected as so‐called dreamers ‐‐ the children who were
brought here, as you know, by their parents. Should they be worried ‐‐ that they could be
deported? And is there anything you can say to assure them right now that they'll be allowed to
stay?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: They shouldn't be very worried. They are here illegally. They shouldn't be
very worried. I do have a big heart. We're going to take care of everybody. We're going to have
a very strong border. We're gonna have a very solid border. Where you have great people that
are here that have done a good job, they should be far less worried. We'll be coming out with
policy on that over the next period of four weeks.
DAVID MUIR: But Mr. President, will they be allowed to stay?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm gonna tell you over the next four weeks. But I will tell you, we're
looking at this, the whole immigration situation, we're looking at it with great heart. Now we
have criminals that are here. We have really bad people that are here. Those people have to be
worried 'cause they're getting out. We're gonna get them out. We're gonna get 'em out fast.
General Kelly is ‐‐ I've given that as his number one priority.
DAVID MUIR: Senator Jeff Sessions, your pick for attorney general, as you know during his
confirmation hearing said that ending DACA, this is President Obama's policy protecting the
dreamers ‐‐ that, "Ending it certainly would be constitutional." That you could end the
protection of these dreamers. Is that a possibility?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We're gonna be talking with ‐‐ attorney general. He will soon be the
attorney general. He's done fantastically well. We're all very proud of him. I thought he was
treated very, very unfairly. He's a brilliant man and he's a very good man. He'll do a fantastic
job. I'll be speaking to him as soon as he's affirmed.
DAVID MUIR: So, it's a possibility.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We will be talking to the attorney general.
DAVID MUIR: I wanna ask you about something you said this week right here at the White
House. You brought in congressional leaders to the White House. You spoke at length about the
presidential election with them ‐‐ telling them that you lost the popular vote because of
millions of illegal votes, 3 to 5 million illegal votes. That would be the biggest electoral fraud in
American history. Where is the evidence of that?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: So, let me tell you first of all, it was so misrepresented. That was supposed
to be a confidential meeting. And you weren't supposed to go out and talk to the press as soon
as you ‐‐ but the Democrats viewed it not as a confidential meeting.
DAVID MUIR: But you have tweeted ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: ... about the millions of illegals ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Sure. And I do ‐‐ and I'm very ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... and I mean it. But just so you ‐‐ it was supposed to be a confidential
meeting. They turned it into not a con... Number two, the conversation lasted for about a
minute. They made it ‐‐ somebody said it was, like, 25 percent of the ... It wasn't. It was hardly
even discussed.
I said it. And I said it strongly because what's going on with voter fraud is horrible. That's
number one. Number two, I would've won the popular vote if I was campaigning for the
popular vote. I would've gone to California where I didn't go at all. I would've gone to New York
where I didn't campaign at all.
I would've gone to a couple of places that I didn't go to. And I would've won that much easier
than winning the electoral college. But as you know, the electoral college is all that matters. It
doesn't make any difference. So, I would've won very, very easily. But it's a different form of
winning. You would campaign much differently. You would have a totally different campaign.
So, but ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... you're just asking a question. I would've easily won the popular vote,
much easier, in my opinion, than winning the electoral college. I ended up going to 19 different
states. I went to the state of Maine four times for one. I needed one.
I went to M‐‐ I got it, by the way. But it turned out I didn't need it because we ended up winning
by a massive amount, 306. I needed 270. We got 306. You and everybody said, "There's no way
you get to 270." I mean, your network said and almost everybody said, "There's no way you can
get to ..." So, I went to Maine four times. I went to various places. And that's the beauty of the
electoral college. With that being said, if you look at voter registration, you look at the dead
people that are registered to vote who vote, you look at people that are registered in two
states, you look at all of these different things that are happening with registration. You take a
look at those registration for ‐‐ you're gonna s‐‐ find ‐‐ and we're gonna do an investigation on
it.
DAVID MUIR: But 3 to 5 million illegal votes?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, we're gonna find out. But it could very well be that much. Absolutely.
DAVID MUIR: But ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: But we're gonna find out.
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: In fact, I heard one of the other side, they were saying it's not 3 to 5. It's
not 3 to 5. I said, "Well, Mr. Trump is talking about registration, tell‐‐" He said, "You know we
don't wanna talk about registration." They don't wanna talk about registration.
You have people that are registered who are dead, who are illegals, who are in two states. You
have people registered in two states. They're registered in a New York and a New Jersey. They
vote twice. There are millions of votes, in my opinion. Now ...
DAVID MUIR: But again ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm doing an ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... investigation. David, David, David ...
DAVID MUIR: You’re now, you’re now president of the United States when you say ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Of course, and I want the voting process to be legitimate.
DAVID MUIR: But what I'm asking ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: The people that ...
DAVID MUIR: ... what I'm asking that ‐‐ when you say in your opinion millions of illegal votes,
that is something that is extremely fundamental to our functioning democracy, a fair and free
election.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Sure. Sure. Sure.
DAVID MUIR: You say you're gonna launch an investigation.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Sure, done.
DAVID MUIR: What you have presented so far has been debunked. It's been called ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: ... false.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, it hasn't. Take a look at the Pew reports.
DAVID MUIR: I called the author of the Pew report last night. And he told me that they found
no evidence of voter ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: ... fraud.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Really? Then why did he write the report?
DAVID MUIR: He said no evidence of voter fraud.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Excuse me, then why did he write the report?
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: According to Pew report, then he's ‐‐ then he's groveling again. You know, I
always talk about the reporters that grovel when they wanna write something that you wanna
hear but not necessarily millions of people wanna hear or have to hear.
DAVID MUIR: So, you’ve launched an investigation?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We're gonna launch an investigation to find out. And then the next time ‐‐
and I will say this, of those votes cast, none of 'em come to me. None of 'em come to me. They
would all be for the other side. None of 'em come to me. But when you look at the people that
are registered: dead, illegal and two states and some cases maybe three states ‐‐ we have a lot
to look into.
DAVID MUIR: House Speaker Paul Ryan has said, "I have seen no evidence. I have made this
very, very clear." Senator Lindsey Graham saying, "It's the most inappropriate thing for a
president to say without proof. He seems obsessed with the idea that he could not have
possibly lost the popular vote without cheating and fraud." I wanna ask you about something
bigger here. Does it matter more now ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: There's nothing bigger. There's nothing bigger.
DAVID MUIR: But it is important because ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Let me just tell you, you know what's important, millions of people agree
with me when I say that if you would’ve looked on one of the other networks and all of the
people that were calling in they're saying, "We agree with Mr. Trump. We agree." They're very
smart people.
The people that voted for me ‐‐ lots of people are saying they saw things happen. I heard
stories also. But you're not talking about millions. But it's a small little segment. I will tell you,
it's a good thing that we're doing because at the end we're gonna have an idea as to what's
going on. Now, you're telling me Pew report has all of a sudden changed. But you have other
reports and you have other statements. You take a look at the registrations, how many dead
people are there? Take a look at the registrations as to the other things that I already
presented.
DAVID MUIR: And you're saying ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: And you're gonna find ...
DAVID MUIR: ... those people who are on the rolls voted, that there are millions of illegal votes?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I didn't say there are millions. But I think there could very well be millions
of people. That's right.
DAVID MUIR: You tweeted though ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: And I also say this ...
DAVID MUIR: ... you tweeted, "If you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally, I won
the popular vote."
PRESIDENT TRUMP: David, and I also say this, if I was going for the popular vote I would've won
easily. But I would've been in California and New York. I wouldn't have been in Maine. I
wouldn't have been in Iowa. I wouldn't have been in Nebraska and all of those states that I had
to win in order to win this. I would've been in New York, I would've been in California. I never
even went there.
DAVID MUIR: Let me just ask you, you did win. You're the president. You're sitting ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: That’s true.
DAVID MUIR: ... across from me right now.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: That's true.
DAVID MUIR: Do you think that your words matter more now?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Yes, very much.
DAVID MUIR: Do you think that that talking about millions of illegal votes is dangerous to this
country without presenting the evidence?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, not at all.
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Not at all because many people feel the same way that I do. And ...
DAVID MUIR: You don't think it undermines your credibility if there’s no evidence?
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, not at all because they didn't come to me. Believe me. Those were
Hillary votes. And if you look at it they all voted for Hillary. They all voted for Hillary. They didn't
vote for me. I don't believe I got one. Okay, these are people that voted for Hillary Clinton. And
if they didn't vote, it would've been different in the popular.
Now, you have to understand I ‐‐ I focused on those four or five states that I had to win. Maybe
she didn't. She should've gone to Michigan. She thought she had it in the bag. She should've
gone to Wisconsin, she thought she had it because you're talking about 38 years of, you know,
Democrat wins. But they didn't. I went to Michigan, I went to Wisconsin. I went to Pennsylvania
all the time. I went to all of the states that are ‐‐ Florida and North Carolina. That's all I focused
on.
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, it does strike me though that we're relitigating the presidential
campaign, the election ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, no. We're looking at it for the next time. No, no, you have to
understand, I had a tremendous victory, one of the great victories ever. In terms of counties I
think the most ever or just about the most ever. When you look at a map it's all red. Red
meaning us, Republicans.
One of the greatest victories ever. But, again, I ran for the electoral college. I didn't run for the
popular vote. What I'm saying is if there are these problems that many people agree with me
that there might be. Look, Barack Obama ‐‐ if you look back ‐‐ eight years ago when he first
ran ‐‐ he was running for office in Chicago for we needed Chicago vote.
And he was laughing at the system because he knew all of those votes were going to him. You
look at Philadelphia, you look at what's going on in Philadelphia. But take a look at the tape of
Barack Obama who wrote me, by the way, a very beautiful letter in the drawer of the desk.
Very beautiful. And I appreciate it. But look at what he said, it's on tape. Look at what he said
about voting in Chicago eight years ago. It's not changed. It hasn't changed, believe me.
Chicago, look what's going on in Chicago. It's only gotten worse.
But he was smiling and laughing about the vote in Chicago. Now, once he became president he
didn't do that. All of a sudden it became this is the foundation of our country. So, here's the
point, you have a lot of stuff going on possibly. I say probably. But possibly. We're gonna get to
the bottom of it.
And then we're gonna make sure it doesn't happen again. If people are registered wrongly, if
illegals are registered to vote, which they are, if dead people are registered to vote and voting,
which they do. There are some. I don't know how many. We're gonna try finding that out and
the other categories that we talk about, double states where they're ‐‐ registered in two states,
we're gonna get to the bottom of it because we have to stop it. Because I agree, so important.
But the other side is trying to downplay this. Now, I'll say this ‐‐ I think that if that didn't
happen, first of all, would ‐‐ would be a great thing if it didn't happen. But I believe it did
happen. And I believe a part of the vote would've been much different.
DAVID MUIR: And you believe millions of illegal votes ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, we're gonna find out.
DAVID MUIR: Let me ask you this ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We're gonna find out. And ‐‐ and, by the way, when I say you're gonna find
out. You can never really find, you know, there are gonna be ‐‐ no matter what numbers we
come up with there are gonna be lots of people that did things that we're not going to find out
about. But we will find out because we need a better system where that can't happen.
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, I just have one more question on this. And it's ‐‐ it's bigger picture.
You took some heat after your visit to the CIA in front of that hallowed wall, 117 stars ‐‐ of
those lost at the CIA. You talked about other things. But you also talked about crowd size at the
inauguration, about the size of your rallies, about covers on Time magazine. And I just wanna
ask you when does all of that matter just a little less? When do you let it roll off your back now
that you're the president?
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: OK, so I'm glad you asked. So, I went to the CIA, my first step. I have great
respect for the people in intelligence and CIA. I'm ‐‐ I don't have a lot of respect for, in particular
one of the leaders. But that's okay. But I have a lot of respect for the people in the CIA.
That speech was a home run. That speech, if you look at Fox, OK, I'll mention you ‐‐ we see
what Fox said. They said it was one of the great speeches. They showed the people applauding
and screaming and ‐‐ and they were all CIA. There was ‐‐ somebody was asking Sean ‐‐ "Well,
were they Trump people that were put‐‐" we don't have Trump people. They were CIA people.
That location was given to me. Mike Pence went up before me, paid great homage to the wall. I
then went up, paid great homage to the wall. I then spoke to the crowd. I got a standing
ovation. In fact, they said it was the biggest standing ovation since Peyton Manning had won
the Super Bowl and they said it was equal. I got a standing ovation. It lasted for a long period of
time. What you do is take ‐‐ take out your tape ‐‐ you probably ran it live. I know when I do
good speeches. I know when I do bad speeches. That speech was a total home run. They loved
it. I could've ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... gotten ...
DAVID MUIR: You would give the same speech if you went back ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Absolutely.
DAVID MUIR: ... in front of that wall?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: People loved it. They loved it. They gave me a standing ovation for a long
period of time. They never even sat down, most of them, during the speech. There was love in
the room. You and other networks covered it very inaccurately. I hate to say this to you and you
probably won't put it on but turn on Fox and see how it was covered. And see how people
respond to that speech.
That speech was a good speech. And you and a couple of other networks tried to downplay that
speech. And it was very, very unfortunate that you did. The people of the CIA loved the speech.
If I was going to take a vote in that room, there were, like, 300, 350 people, over 1,000 wanted
to be there but they couldn't. They were all CIA people. I would say I would've gotten 350 to
nothing in that room. That's what the vote would've been. That speech was a big hit, a big
success ‐‐ success. And then I came back and I watched you on television and a couple of
others.
DAVID MUIR: Not me personally.
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: And they tried to demean. Excuse me?
DAVID MUIR: Not me personally.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Not you personally but your network ‐‐ and they tried to demean the
speech. And I know when things are good or bad. A poll just came out on my inauguration
speech which was extraordinary that people loved it. Loved and liked. And it was an
extraordinary poll.
DAVID MUIR: I guess that's what I'm getting at. You talked about the poll, the people loving
your inaugural speech and the size of your ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, because you bring it up.
DAVID MUIR: I'm asking, well, on day one you ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, you just brought it up. I didn't bring it up. I didn't wanna ‐‐ talk about
the inauguration speech. But I think I did a very good job and people really liked it. You saw the
poll. Just came out this morning. You bring it up. I didn't bring it up.
DAVID MUIR: So, polls and crowd size and covers on Time, those still matter now that you're
here as president.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, you keep bringing it up. I had a massive amount of people here. They
were showing pictures that were very unflattering, as unflattering ‐‐ from certain angles ‐‐ that
were taken early and lots of other things. I'll show you a picture later if you’d like of a massive
crowd.
In terms of a total audience including television and everything else that you have we had
supposedly the biggest crowd in history. The audience watching the show. And I think you
would even agree to that. They say I had the biggest crowd in the history of inaugural speeches.
I'm honored by that. But I didn't bring it up. You just brought it up.
DAVID MUIR: See, I ‐‐ I'm not interested in the inaugural crowd size. I think the American
people can look at images side by side and decide for themselves. I am curious about the first
full day here at the White House, choosing to send the press secretary out into the briefing
room, summoning reporters to talk about the inaugural crowd size. Does that send a message
to the American people that that's ‐‐ that's more important than some of the very pressing
issues?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Part of my whole victory was that the men and women of this country who
have been forgotten will never be forgotten again. Part of that is when they try and demean me
unfairly 'cause we had a massive crowd of people. We had a crowd ‐‐ I looked over that sea of
people and I said to myself, "Wow."
And I've seen crowds before. Big, big crowds. That was some crowd. When I looked at the
numbers that happened to come in from all of the various sources, we had the biggest
audience in the history of inaugural speeches. I said the men and women that I was talking to
who came out and voted will never be forgotten again. Therefore I won't allow you or other
people like you to demean that crowd and to demean the people that came to Washington,
D.C., from faraway places because they like me. But more importantly they like what I'm saying.
DAVID MUIR: I just wanna say I didn't demean anyone who was in that crowd. We did coverage
for hours ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, I think you’re demeaning by talking the way you're talking. I think
you're demeaning. And that's why I think a lot of people turned on you and turned on a lot of
other people. And that's why you have a 17 percent approval rating, which is pretty bad.
DAVID MUIR: Mr. Trump, let's talk about many of the things that have happened this week.
Chicago. Last night you tweeted about the murder rate in Chicago saying, "If Chicago doesn't fix
the horrible carnage going on I will send in the feds."
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Right.
DAVID MUIR: You will send in the feds? What do you mean by that?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: It's carnage. You know, in my speech I got tremendous ‐‐ from certain
people the word carnage. It is carnage. It's horrible carnage. This is Afghanistan ‐‐ is not like
what's happening in Chicago. People are being shot left and right. Thousands of people over a
period ‐‐ over a short period of time.
This year, which has just started, is worse than last year, which was a catastrophe. They're not
doing the job. Now if they want help, I would love to help them. I will send in what we have to
send in. Maybe they're not gonna have to be so politically correct. Maybe they're being overly
political correct. Maybe there's something going on. But you can't have those killings going on
in Chicago. Chicago is like a war zone. Chicago is worse than some of the people that you report
in some of the places that you report about every night ...
DAVID MUIR: So, I will send ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... in the Middle East.
DAVID MUIR: ... you mentioned federal assistance. There's federal assistance and then there's
sending in the feds. I'm just curious would you take action on your own?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I want them to fix the problem. You can't have thousands of people being
shot in a city, in a country that I happen to be president of. Maybe it's okay if somebody else is
president. I want them to fix the problem. They have a problem that's very easily fixable.
They're gonna have to get tougher and stronger and smarter. But they gotta fix the problem. I
don't want to have thousands of people shot in a city where essentially I'm the president. I love
Chicago. I know Chicago. And Chicago is a great city, can be a great city.
DAVID MUIR: And if they’re unable to fix it?
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: It can't be a great city. Excuse me. It can't be a great city if people are shot
walking down the street for a loaf of bread. Can't be a great city.
DAVID MUIR: And if they are unable to fix it, that's when you would send in the feds?
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, so far they have been unable. It’s been going on for years. And I
wasn't president. So, look, when President Obama was there two weeks ago making a speech,
very nice speech. Two people were shot and killed during his speech. You can't have that.
DAVID MUIR: Let me ask ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: They weren't shot at the speech. But they were shot in the city of Chicago
during his speech. What ‐‐ what's going on? So, all I'm saying is to the mayor who came up to
my office recently ‐‐ I say, "You have to smarten up and you have to toughen up because you
can't let that happen. That's a war zone."
DAVID MUIR: So, this is an "or else." This is a warning?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I want them to straighten out the problem. It's a big problem.
DAVID MUIR: Let me ask you about a new report that you were poised to lift a ban on so‐called
CIA black sites of prisons around the world that have been used in the past. Is that true?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I'll be talking about that in about two hours. So, you'll be there and
you'll be able to see it for yourself.
DAVID MUIR: Are you gonna lift the ban?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You're gonna see in about two hours.
DAVID MUIR: The last president, President Obama, said the U.S. does not torture. Will you say
that?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I have a general who I have great respect for, General Mattis, who
said ‐‐ I was a little surprised ‐‐ who said he's not a believer in torture. As you know, Mr.
Pompeo was just approved, affirmed by the Senate. He's a fantastic guy, he's gonna be the
head of the CIA.
And you have somebody fabulous as opposed to the character that just got out who didn't ‐‐
was not fabulous at all. And he will I think do a great job. And he is ‐‐ you know, I haven't gone
into great detail. But I will tell you I have spoken to others in intelligence. And they are big
believers in, as an example, waterboarding.
DAVID MUIR: You did tell me ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Because they say it does work. It does work.
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, you ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, you told me during one of the debates that you would bring back
waterboarding and a hell of a lot worse.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I would do ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I would do ‐‐ I wanna keep our country safe. I wanna keep our country safe.
DAVID MUIR: What does that mean?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: When they're shooting ‐‐ when they're chopping off the heads of our
people and other people, when they're chopping off the heads of people because they happen
to be a Christian in the Middle East, when ISIS is doing things that nobody has ever heard of
since Medieval times, would I feel strongly about waterboarding?
As far as I'm concerned we have to fight fire with fire. Now, with that being said I'm going with
General Mattis. I'm going with my secretary because I think Pompeo's gonna be phenomenal.
I'm gonna go with what they say. But I have spoken as recently as 24 hours ago with people at
the highest level of intelligence. And I asked them the question, "Does it work? Does torture
work?" And the answer was, "Yes, absolutely."
DAVID MUIR: You're now the president. Do you want waterboarding?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I don't want people to chop off the citizens or anybody's heads in the
Middle East. Okay? Because they're Christian or Muslim or anything else. I don't want ‐‐ look,
you are old enough to have seen a time that was much different. You never saw heads chopped
off until a few years ago.
Now they chop 'em off and they put 'em on camera and they send 'em all over the world. So we
have that and we're not allowed to do anything. We're not playing on an even field. I will say
this, I will rely on Pompeo and Mattis and my group. And if they don't wanna do, that's fine. If
they do wanna do, then I will work for that end.
I wanna do everything within the bounds of what you're allowed to do legally. But do I feel it
works? Absolutely I feel it works. Have I spoken to people at the top levels and people that
have seen it work? I haven't seen it work. But I think it works. Have I spoken to people that feel
strongly about it? Absolutely.
DAVID MUIR: So, you'd be okay with it as ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I wanna keep ...
DAVID MUIR: ... president?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... no, I wanna ‐‐ I will rely on General Mattis. And I'm gonna rely on those
two people and others. And if they don't wanna do it, it's 100 percent okay with me. Do I think
it works? Absolutely.
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, I wanna ask you about refugees. You're about to sign a sweeping
executive action to suspend immigration to this country.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Right.
DAVID MUIR: Who are we talking about? Is this the Muslim ban?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We're talking about ‐‐ no it's not the Muslim ban. But it's countries that
have tremendous terror. It's countries that we're going to be spelling out in a little while in the
same speech. And it's countries that people are going to come in and cause us tremendous
problems. Our country has enough problems without allowing people to come in who, in many
cases or in some cases, are looking to do tremendous destruction.
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You look at what's happening ...
DAVID MUIR: Which countries are we talking about?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... you'll be hearing about it in two hours because I have a whole list. You'll
be very thrilled. You're looking at people that come in, in many cases, in some cases with evil
intentions. I don't want that. They're ISIS. They're coming under false pretense. I don't want
that.
I'm gonna be the president of a safe country. We have enough problems. Now I'll absolutely do
safe zones in Syria for the people. I think that Europe has made a tremendous mistake by
allowing these millions of people to go into Germany and various other countries. And all you
have to do is take a look. It's ‐‐ it's a disaster what's happening over there.
I don't want that to happen here. Now with that being said, President Obama and Hillary
Clinton have, and Kerry have allowed tens of thousands of people into our country. The FBI is
now investigating more people than ever before having to do with terror. They ‐‐ and it's from
the group of people that came in. So look, look, our country has a lot of problems. Believe me. I
know what the problems are even better than you do. They're deep problems, they're serious
problems. We don't need more.
DAVID MUIR: Let me ask you about some of the countries that won't be on the list, Afghanistan,
Pakistan, Saudi Arabia. Why are we going to allow people to come into this country ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You're going to see ‐‐ you're going to see. We're going to have extreme
vetting in all cases. And I mean extreme. And we're not letting people in if we think there's even
a little chance of some problem.
DAVID MUIR: Are you at all ...
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We are excluding certain countries. But for other countries we're gonna
have extreme vetting. It's going to be very hard to come in. Right now it's very easy to come in.
It's gonna be very, very hard. I don't want terror in this country. You look at what happened in
San Bernardino. You look at what happened all over. You look at what happened in the World
Trade Center. Okay, I mean, take that as an example.
DAVID MUIR: Are you at all ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: ... concerned ‐‐ are you at all concerned it's going to cause more anger among
Muslims ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Anger?
DAVID MUIR: ... the world?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: There's plenty of anger right now. How can you have more?
DAVID MUIR: You don't think it'll ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Look, David ...
DAVID MUIR: ... exacerbate the problem?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... David, I mean, I know you're a sophisticated guy. The world is a mess.
The world is as angry as it gets. What? You think this is gonna cause a little more anger? The
world is an angry place. All of this has happened. We went into Iraq. We shouldn't have gone
into Iraq. We shouldn't have gotten out the way we got out.
The world is a total mess. Take a look at what's happening with Aleppo. Take a look what's
happening in Mosul. Take a look what's going on in the Middle East. And people are fleeing and
they're going into Europe and all over the place. The world is a mess, David.
DAVID MUIR: You brought up Iraq and something you said that could affect American troops in
recent days. You said, "We should've kept the oil but okay maybe we'll have another chance."
What did you mean by that?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, we should've kept the oil when we got out. And, you know, it's very
interesting, had we taken the oil, you wouldn't have ISIS because they fuel themselves with the
oil. That's where they got the money. They got the money from leaving ‐‐ when we left, we left
Iraq, which wasn't a government. It's not a government now.
And by the way, and I said something else, if we go in and do this. You have two nations, Iraq
and Iran. And they were essentially the same military strength. And they'd fight for decades and
decades. They'd fight forever. And they'd keep fighting and it would go ‐‐ it was just a way of
life. We got in, we decapitated one of those nations, Iraq. I said, "Iran is taking over Iraq." That's
essentially what happened.
DAVID MUIR: So, you believe we can go in and take the oil.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We should have taken the oil. You wouldn't have ISIS if we took the oil.
Now I wasn't talking about it from the standpoint of ISIS because the way we got out was
horrible. We created a vacuum and ISIS formed. But had we taken the oil something else
would've very good happened. They would not have been able to fuel their rather unbelievable
drive to destroy large portions of the world.
DAVID MUIR: You've heard the critics who say that would break all international law, taking the
oil. But I wanna get to the words ...
(OVERTALK)
DAVID MUIR: ... that you ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Wait, wait, can you believe that? Who are the critics who say that? Fools.
DAVID MUIR: Let, let me ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I don't call them critics. I call them fools.
DAVID MUIR: ... let me talk about your words ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We should've kept ‐‐ excuse me. We should've taken the oil. And if we took
the oil you wouldn't have ISIS. And we would have had wealth. We have spent right now $6
trillion in the Middle East. And our country is falling apart.
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Our roads ‐‐ excuse me. Our roads, our bridges, our schools, it's falling
apart. We have spent as of one month ago $6 trillion in the Middle East. And in our country we
can't afford to build a school in Brooklyn or we can't afford to build a school in Los Angeles. And
we can't afford to fix up our inner cities. We can't afford to do anything. Look, it's time. It's
been our longest war. We've been in there for 15, 16 years. Nobody even knows what the date
is because they don't really know when did we start. But it's time. It's time.
DAVID MUIR: What got my attention, Mr. President, was when you said, "Maybe we'll have
another chance."
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, don't let it get your attention too much because we'll see what
happens. I mean, we're gonna see what happens. You know, I told you and I told everybody
else that wants to talk when it comes to the military I don't wanna discuss things.
I wanna let ‐‐ I wanna let the action take place before the talk takes place. I watched in Mosul
when a number of months ago generals and politicians would get up and say, "We're going into
Mosul in four months." Then they'd say, "We're going in in three months, two months, one
month. We're going in next week."
Okay, and I kept saying to myself, "Gee, why do they have to keep talking about going in?" All
right, so now they go in and it is tough because they're giving the enemy all this time to
prepare. I don't wanna do a lot of talking on the military. I wanna talk after it's finished, not
before it starts.
DAVID MUIR: Let me ask you, Mr. President, about another promise involving Obamacare to
repeal it. And you told The Washington Post that your plan to replace Obamacare will include
insurance for everybody. That sounds an awful lot like universal coverage.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: It's going to be ‐‐ what my plan is is that I wanna take care of everybody.
I'm not gonna leave the lower 20 percent that can't afford insurance. Just so you understand
people talk about Obamacare. And I told the Republicans this, the best thing we could do is
nothing for two years, let it explode. And then we'll go in and we'll do a new plan and ‐‐ and the
Democrats will vote for it. Believe me.
Because this year you'll have 150 percent increases. Last year in Arizona 116 perecent increase,
Minnesota 60 some‐odd percent increase. And I told them, except for one problem, I wanna get
it fixed. The best thing I could do as the leader of this country‐‐ but as wanting to get something
approved with support of the Democrats, if I didn't do anything for two years they'd be begging
me to do something. But I don't wanna do that. So just so you unders‐‐ Obamacare is a disaster.
It's too expensive. It's horrible health care. It doesn't cover what you have to cover. It's a
disaster. You know it and I know it. And I said to the Republican folks‐‐ and they're terrific folks,
Mitch and Paul Ryan, I said, "Look, if you go fast ‐‐ and I'm okay in doing it because it's the right
thing to do. We wanna get good coverage at much less cost." I said, "If you go fast we then own
Obamacare. They're gonna put it on us. And Obamacare is a disaster waiting to explode. If you
sit back and let it explode it's gonna be much easier." That's the thing to do. But the right thing
to do is to get something done now.
DAVID MUIR: But you ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: So I wanna make sure that nobody's dying on the streets when I'm
president. Nobody's gonna be dying on the streets. We will unleash something that's gonna be
terrific. And remember this, before Obamacare you had a lot of people that were very, very
happy with their health care.
And now those people in many cases don't even have health care. They don't even have
anything that's acceptable to them. Remember this, keep your doctor, keep your plan, 100
percent. Remember the $5 billion website? Remember the website fiasco. I mean, you do admit
that I think, right? The website fiasco.
Obamacare is a disaster. We are going to come up with a new plan ideally not an amended plan
because right now if you look at the pages they're this high. We're gonna come up with a new
plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost.
DAVID MUIR: Last question because I know you're gonna show me around the White House.
Last question on this. You've seen the estimate that 18 million Americans could lose their
health insurance if Obamacare is repealed and there is no replacement. Can you assure those
Americans watching this right now that they will not lose their health insurance or end up with
anything less?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: So nobody ever deducts all the people that have already lost their health
insurance that liked it. You had millions of people that liked their health insurance and their
health care and their doctor and where they went. You had millions of people that now aren't
insured anymore.
DAVID MUIR: I'm just asking about the people ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: No, no.
DAVID MUIR: ... who are nervous and watching ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We ...
DAVID MUIR: ... you for reassurance.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... here's what I can assure you, we are going to have a better plan, much
better health care, much better service treatment, a plan where you can have access to the
doctor that you want and the plan that you want. We're gonna have a much better health care
plan at much less money.
And remember Obamacare is ready to explode. And you interviewed me a couple of years ago.
I said '17 ‐‐ right now, this year, "'17 is going to be a disaster." I'm very good at this stuff. "'17 is
going to be a disaster cost‐wise for Obamacare. It's going to explode in '17."
And why not? Obama's a smart guy. So let it all come do because that's what's happening. It's
all coming do in '17. We're gonna have an explosion. And to do it right, sit back, let it explode
and let the Democrats come begging us to help them because it's on them. But I don't wanna
do that. I wanna give great health care at a much lower cost.
DAVID MUIR: So, no one who has this health insurance through Obamacare will lose it or end
up ...
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You know, when you ...
DAVID MUIR: ... with anything less?
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: ... say no one I think no one. Ideally, in the real world, you’re talking about
millions of people. Will no one. And then, you know, knowing ABC, you'll have this one person
on television saying how they were hurt. Okay. We want no one. We want the answer to be no
one.
But I will say millions of people will be happy. Right now you have millions and millions and
millions of people that are unhappy. It's too expensive and it's no good. And the governor of
Minnesota who unfortunately had a very, very sad incident yesterday 'cause he's a very nice
guy but ‐‐ a couple of months ago he said that the Affordable Care Act is no longer affordable.
He's a staunch Democrat. Very strong Democrat. He said it's no longer affordable. He made that
statement. And Bill Clinton on the campaign trail ‐‐ and he probably had a bad night that night
when he went home ‐‐ but he said, "Obamacare is crazy. It's crazy." And you know what, they
were both right.
DAVID MUIR: Mr. President, thank you.
(OVERTALK)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *
Pasted from <http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/transcript‐abc‐news‐anchor‐david‐muir‐interviews‐president/story?id=
45047602>
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 16
Brody File Exclusive: President Trump Says Persecuted Christians Will Be Given Priority...
blogs
thebrodyfile
Brody File Exclusive: President Trump Says Persecuted Christians
Will Be Given Priority As Refugees
01-27-2017
David Brody
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In an exclusive interview with The Brody File, President Donald Trump says persecuted
Christians will be given priority when it comes to applying for refugee status in the United States.
“We are going to help them,” President Trump tells CBN News. “They’ve been horribly treated.
Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough to get into the
United States? If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost
impossible and the reason that was so unfair, everybody was persecuted in all fairness, but they
were chopping off the heads of everybody but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very,
very unfair.”
The Brody File conducted the interview Friday morning in the Blue Room at The White House.
More newsworthy clips are coming soon. The entire interview can be seen this Sunday at 11pm
on Freeform (cable TV, formerly ABC Family Channel) during our special CBN News show.
This is just the third interview President Trump has done from The White House and it will be the
only interview that will air in its’ entirety this weekend.
MANDATORY VIDEO AND COURTESY: CBN NEWS/THE BRODY FILE
DAVID BRODY: “Persecuted Christians, we’ve talked about this, the refugees overseas. The
refugee program, or the refugee changes you’re looking to make. As it relates to persecuted
Christians, do you see them as kind of a priority here?”
PRESIDENT TRUMP: “Yes.”
DAVID BRODY: “You do?”
PRESIDENT TRUMP: “They’ve been horribly treated. Do you know if you were a Christian in
Syria it was impossible, at least very tough to get into the United States? If you were a Muslim
you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible and the reason that was
so unfair, everybody was persecuted in all fairness, but they were chopping off the heads of
http://www1.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2017/01/27/brody-file-exclusive-president-trum... 3/12/2017
Brody File Exclusive: President Trump Says Persecuted Christians Will Be Given Priority...
everybody but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to
help them.”
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+126
http://www1.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2017/01/27/brody-file-exclusive-president-trum... 3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 17
Trump signs order limiting refugee entry, says he will prioritize Christian refugees - The ...
Page 1 of 4
Acts of Faith
Trump signs order
limiting refugee entry,
says he will prioritize
Christian refugees
By Sarah Pulliam Bailey January 27
President Trump signed an executive order Friday instituting “extreme vetting” of refugees, aimed at
keeping out “radical Islamic terrorists.”
“I’m establishing a new vetting measure to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the United States of
America,” Trump said during his signing of the order. “We don’t want them here. We want to make sure we
are not admitting into our country the very threats our soldiers are fighting overseas.”
According to drafts of the executive action, the order bars people from the Muslim-majority countries of
Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia or Yemen from entering the United States for 30 days and suspends
the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program for 120 days. The program will be reinstated “only for nationals of
countries for whom” members are vetted by Trump’s administration.
In an interview Friday with the Christian Broadcast Network, Trump said he plans to help persecuted
Christians.
“Do you know if you were a Christian in Syria it was impossible, at least very tough, to get into the United
States?” Trump said. “If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost
impossible and the reason that was so unfair, everybody was persecuted in all fairness, but they were
chopping off the heads of everybody but more so the Christians. And I thought it was very, very unfair.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/01/27/we-dont-want-them-th... 3/12/2017
Trump signs order limiting refugee entry, says he will prioritize Christian refugees - The ...
Page 2 of 4
In a statement, the American Civil Liberties Union declared Trump’s action “just a euphemism for
discrimination against Muslims.”
ADVERTISING
From both legal and historical perspectives, the plan to ban refugees from specific countries is within the
powers granted to the president under current law and historical precedent, according to Charles Haynes,
vice president of the Newseum Institute’s Religious Freedom Center. However, whether the president can
limit the ban to one religious group is another question.
Many Muslims, especially Shiites, are among the religious minorities under attack, Haynes said. This “raises
moral and humanitarian concerns about excluding them from entrance to the U.S. while permitting people
of other faiths,” he said. “Whether this policy rises to the level of a constitutional violation is uncertain and
will be debated by constitutional scholars in the coming weeks.”
Issues related to the Constitution and religion are usually associated with matters of sex, such as
contraceptives and LGBT discrimination, but some observers said they expect Trump’s actions on
immigration to raise new challenges for religious freedom, according to Chelsea Langston Bombino of the
Institutional Religious Freedom Alliance at the Center for Public Justice. Several organizations, she noted,
are speaking out against orders that “will hurt the very people that their organizations were established, out
of a religious calling, to serve,” she said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/01/27/we-dont-want-them-th... 3/12/2017
Trump signs order limiting refugee entry, says he will prioritize Christian refugees - The ...
Page 3 of 4
Trump’s actions have been decried by several religious groups this week. “The expected cutbacks to U.S.
refugee programs and funding will compromise our ability to do this work and the infrastructure needed to
serve refugees in the years to come,” evangelical ministry World Relief said in a statement.
Acts of Faith newsletter
Conversations about faith and values.
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And in a strongly worded statement, Rabbi Jack Moline, the Interfaith Alliance president, noted that
this decision was announced on International Holocaust Remembrance Day.
“For decades, the United States has prided itself as a safe bastion for refugees around the globe escaping
war and persecution,” he said. “President Trump is poised to trample upon that great legacy with a de facto
Muslim ban.”
The Council on American-Islamic Relations will on Monday announce a federal lawsuit on behalf of more
than 20 people challenging the constitutionality of the executive order.
“There is no evidence that refugees – the most thoroughly vetted of all people entering our nation – are a
threat to national security,” said CAIR national litigation director Lena F. Masri. “This is an order that is
based on bigotry, not reality.”
This post has been updated.
Sarah Pulliam Bailey is a religion reporter, covering how faith intersects with politics, culture
and...everything. Follow @spulliam
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 18
United States Department of State
Deputy Assistant Secretcuy
for Visa Services
Washington, D. C. 20520
January 27, 2017
Upon request of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and pursuant to
sections 212(±) and 221(i) of the Immigration and Nationality Act and 22 CFR
41.122 and 42.82, and in implementation of'section 3(c) of the Executive Order on
Protecting the Nation from Terrorist Attacks by Foreign Nationals, I hereby
provisionally revoke all valid nonimmigrant and immigrant visas of nationals of
Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen, subject to the exceptions
discussed below.
'
The revocation does not apply to visas in the following nonimmigrant
classifications: A-1, A-2, G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO, C-2, or certain diplomatic
visas.
The revocation also does not apply to any visa exempted on the basis of a
determination made by the Secretaries of State and Homeland Secmity pursuant to
section 3(g) of the Executive Order on a case-by-case basis, and when in the
national interest.
This document is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit,
substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the
United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or
agents, or any other person.
~~a:
=-----Edward J. Ramotowski
Deputy Assistant Secretary
Bureau of Consular Affairs
Department of State
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 19
Urgent Notice: Executive Order on Protecting the Nation from Terrorist Attacks by Forei...
travel.state.gov
U.S. Passports &
International Travel
Students Abroad
U.S. Visa
Intercountry Adoption
International Parental
Child Abduction
|
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travel.state.gov > Visas > Visa Newsroom > Urgent Notice: Executive Order on Protecting the Nation from Terrorist Attacks by Foreign
Nationals
Print
Email
Newsroom
Urgent Notice: Executive Order on Protecting the Nation from Terrorist Attacks by
Foreign Nationals
JANUARY 27, 2017
Urgent Notice
Per the Executive Order on Protecting the Nation from Terrorist Attacks by Foreign Nationals signed on January 27, 2017, visa
issuance to nationals of the countries of Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen has been suspended effective
immediately until further notification. If you are a citizen of one of these countries, please do not schedule a visa appointment or
pay any visa fees at this time. If you already have an appointment scheduled, please DO NOT ATTEND. You will not be permitted
entry to the Embassy/Consulate. We will announce any other changes affecting travelers to the United States as soon as that
information is available.
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https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/news/executive-order-on-protecting-the-nation-from... 2/1/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 20
2017 Statements and Press Releases | Baghdad, Iraq - Embassy of the United States
Page 1 of 1
Baghdad, Iraq - Embassy of the United States
2 017 ST ATEMENT S AND PRES S RELEASES
Executive Order Affecting Visa Travel to the United States
January 28, 2017
President Trump signed an Executive Order on January 27th temporarily suspending
entry into the United States of foreign nationals from seven countries under section
212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. The Executive Order imposes on
nationals of certain designated countries a 90-day bar on entry into the United
States. This bar also includes a 90-day prohibition on visa issuance. These
countries, as designated by Congress or the Secretary of Homeland Security, are:
Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Iran, Somalia, Libya, and Yemen. We will announce
any other changes affecting travelers to the United States as soon as that
information is available.
Beginning January 27, 2017, travelers who have nationality or dual nationality of
one of these countries will not be permitted for 90 days to enter the United States
or be issued an immigrant or nonimmigrant visa. Those nationals or dual nationals
holding valid immigrant or nonimmigrant visas will not be permitted to enter the
United States during this period.
The Executive Order does not apply to U.S. citizens. U.S. citizens, although they
might also have another nationality, are required to use their U.S. passport when
entering and departing the United States.
Visa interviews will generally not be scheduled for nationals of these countries
during this period. If you are a national, or dual national, of one of these countries,
please do not schedule a visa appointment or pay any visa fees at this time. If you
already have an appointment scheduled, please DO NOT ATTEND your appointment
as we will not be able to proceed with your visa interview. Please note that certain
travel for official governmental purposes, related to official business at or on behalf
of designated international organizations, on behalf of the North Atlantic Treaty
Organization, or by certain officials is not subject to this suspension.
Please continue to monitor the Embassy Baghdad website
https://iraq.usembassy.gov/ andwww.travel.state.gov for further updates.
https://iraq.usembassy.gov/pr_012817.html
2/1/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 21
Green card holders will need additional screening: White House | Reuters
Page 1 of 4
EDITION: UNITED STATES
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WORLD NEWS | Sun Jan 29, 2017 | 2:39pm EST
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U.S. green card holders will require additional screening before they can return to the
United States, the White House said on Saturday.
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Earlier, a Department of Homeland Security official said people holding green cards,
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"It will bar green card holders," Gillian Christensen, acting Department of Homeland
Security spokeswoman, said in an email.
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A senior White House official later sought to clarify the situation, saying green card
holders who had left the United States and wanted to return would have to visit a U.S.
embassy or consulate to undergo additional screening.
"You will be allowed to re-enter the United States pending a routine rescreening," the
official said.
(Reporting by Doina Chiacu; Editing by Alan Crosby and Paul Tait)
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX
3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 22
Statement By Secretary John Kelly On The Entry Of Lawful Permanent Residents Into Th... Page 1 of 2
Official website of the Department of Homeland
Contact Us
Quick Links
Site Map
A-Z Index
Security
Archived Content
In an effort to keep DHS.gov current, the archive
contains content from a previous administration or is
otherwise outdated.
Statement By
Secretary John Kelly
On The Entry Of
Lawful Permanent
Residents Into The
United States
Release Date: January 29, 2017
On March 6, 2017 President Trump issued a new
Executive Order on Executive Order Protecting The
Nation From Foreign Terrorist Entry Into The United
States that rescinded the Executive Order that was
issued on January 27, 2017. Click here for more
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/statement-secretary-john-kelly-entry-lawful-perma...
3/12/2017
Statement By Secretary John Kelly On The Entry Of Lawful Permanent Residents Into Th... Page 2 of 2
information (/executive-orders-protecting-homeland) .
----For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
Contact: 202-282-8010
WASHINGTON – In applying the provisions of the
president's executive order, I hereby deem the entry of
lawful permanent residents to be in the national interest.
Accordingly, absent the receipt of significant derogatory
information indicating a serious threat to public safety
and welfare, lawful permanent resident status will be a
dispositive factor in our case-by-case determinations.
###
Topics: International (/topics/international)
Keywords: international (/keywords/international) , Legal Permanent
Residents (/keywords/legal-permanent-residents)
Last Published Date: January 29, 2017
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/01/29/statement-secretary-john-kelly-entry-lawful-perma...
3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 23
Executive Orders on Protecting the Homeland | Homeland Security
Official website of the Department of Homeland
Contact Us
Page 1 of 2
Quick Links
Site Map
A-Z Index
Security
Executive Orders on
Protecting the
Homeland
What DHS is Doing
In January 2017, the president announced a series of
Executive Orders that provide the Department with
additional resources, tools and personnel to carry out
the critical work of securing our borders, enforcing our
immigration laws, and ensuring that individuals who
pose a threat to national security or public safety cannot
enter or remain in our country. Protecting the American
people is the highest priority of our government and this
Department.
Expand All Sections (#)
Executive Orders (#)
Presidential Memos (#)
https://www.dhs.gov/executive-orders-protecting-homeland
3/12/2017
Executive Orders on Protecting the Homeland | Homeland Security
Page 2 of 2
Implementation Memos
(#)
Fact Sheets (#)
Press Releases (#)
Additional Information /
Links (#)
Last Published Date: March 6, 2017
Was this page helpful?
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https://www.dhs.gov/executive-orders-protecting-homeland
3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 24
https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states
1/2
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U.S. Customs and
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Official website of the Department of Homeland Security
2/1/2017
https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-states
2/2
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2/1/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 25
President Donald J. Trump Statement Regarding Recent Executive Order Concerning Ext... Page 1 of 2
the WHITE HOUSE
PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP
From the Press Office
Speeches & Remarks
Press Briefings
Statements & Releases
Presidential Actions
Legislation
Nominations & Appointments
Disclosures
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
January 29, 2017
President Donald J. Trump
Statement Regarding Recent
Executive Order Concerning
Extreme Vetting
“America is a proud nation of immigrants and we will continue to show compassion
to those fleeing oppression, but we will do so while protecting our own citizens and
border. America has always been the land of the free and home of the brave. We
will keep it free and keep it safe, as the media knows, but refuses to say. My policy
is similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/29/president-donald-j-trump-statem...
3/12/2017
President Donald J. Trump Statement Regarding Recent Executive Order Concerning Ext... Page 2 of 2
from Iraq for six months. The seven countries named in the Executive Order are the
same countries previously identified by the Obama administration as sources of
terror. To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting. This is
not about religion - this is about terror and keeping our country safe. There are over
40 different countries worldwide that are majority Muslim that are not affected by
this order. We will again be issuing visas to all countries once we are sure we have
reviewed and implemented the most secure policies over the next 90 days. I have
tremendous feeling for the people involved in this horrific humanitarian crisis in
Syria. My first priority will always be to protect and serve our country, but as
President I will find ways to help all those who are suffering.”
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/29/president-donald-j-trump-statem...
3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 26
Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘leg... Page 1 of 6
The Fix
Trump asked for a
‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani
says — and ordered a
commission to do it
‘legally’
By Amy B Wang January 29
Former New York mayor Rudy W. Giuliani said President Trump wanted a “Muslim ban” and requested he
assemble a commission to show him “the right way to do it legally.”
Giuliani, an early Trump supporter who once had been rumored for a Cabinet position in the new
administration, appeared on Fox News late Saturday night to describe how Trump's executive order
temporarily banning refugees came together.
Trump signed orders on Friday not only to suspend admission of all refugees into the United States for 120
days but also to implement “new vetting measures” to screen out “radical Islamic terrorists.” Refugee entry
from Syria, however, would be suspended indefinitely, and all travel from Syria and six other nations
— Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen — is suspended for 90 days. Trump also said he would give
priority to Christian refugees over those of other religions, according to the Christian Broadcasting
Network.
Fox News host Jeanine Pirro asked Giuliani whether the ban had anything to do with religion.
“How did the president decide the seven countries?” she asked. “Okay, talk to me.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-... 3/12/2017
Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘leg... Page 2 of 6
“I'll tell you the whole history of it,” Giuliani responded eagerly. “So when [Trump] first announced it, he
said, 'Muslim ban.' He called me up. He said, 'Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it
legally.' "
Giuliani said he assembled a “whole group of other very expert lawyers on this,” including former U.S.
attorney general Michael Mukasey, Rep. Mike McCaul (R-Tex.) and Rep. Peter T. King (R-N.Y.).
“And what we did was, we focused on, instead of religion, danger — the areas of the world that create
danger for us,” Giuliani told Pirro. “Which is a factual basis, not a religious basis. Perfectly legal, perfectly
sensible. And that's what the ban is based on. It's not based on religion. It's based on places where there are
substantial evidence that people are sending terrorists into our country.”
It was unclear when the phone call Giuliani took place and when the commission began working. An email
to the White House press office was not immediately returned Sunday.
Clips of the exchange between Giuliani and Pirro quickly went viral Saturday night, with some claiming that
Giuliani's statement amounted to admitting Trump's intent had been to institute a ban based on religion.
Others, including Trump senior adviser Kellyanne Conway and White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus,
have insisted it is not a ban on Muslims, but rather one based on countries from which travel was already
restricted under Barack Obama's administration.
Priebus appeared on CBS's “Face the Nation” Sunday morning to say it was possible Trump would expand
the list of countries included in the travel ban.
“You can point to other countries that have similar problems, like Pakistan and others,” Priebus told host
John Dickerson. “Perhaps we need to take it further.”
Priebus also said there had been weeks of work and “plenty of communication” between the White House,
the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security regarding the ban.
“We didn't just type this thing up in an office and sign up,” he told Dickerson.
Later on the same program, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) called out Giuliani's interview with Pirro from the
night before.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-... 3/12/2017
Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘leg... Page 3 of 6
“They can't deny that this is a Muslim ban,” Ellison told Dickerson. “On the campaign trail, [Trump] said he
wanted a Muslim ban. ... Rudolph W. Giuliani who helped him write it said that they started out with the
intention of a Muslim ban and then they sort of 'languaged' it up so to try to avoid that label, but it is a
religiously based ban.”
Senate Democrats vowed to draft legislation to block the travel ban.
“We’re demanding the president reverse these executive orders that go against what we are, everything we
have always stood for,” Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said in a news conference
Sunday morning, noting later that his middle name, Ellis, was originally inspired by Ellis Island.
“It was implemented in a way that created chaos and confusion across the country, and it will only serve to
embolden and inspire those around the globe those that will do us harm,” Schumer added of the ban. “It
must be reversed immediately.”
Trump's executive order sparked massive protests at airports around the country Friday and Saturday, as
reports surfaced that dozens of travelers from the affected countries, including green-card holders, were
being detained.
The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit Saturday morning challenging Trump’s order after two
Iraqi men with immigrant visas were barred from entering the United States at New York's John F.
Kennedy International Airport.
As Giuliani was speaking, Fox News simultaneously aired an alert that noted federal judge Ann M.
Donnelly had issued a stay to stop the deportations nationwide.
Donnelly wrote that there was a strong likelihood the order had violated the petitioners' rights to due
process and equal protection by the Constitution.
“There is imminent danger that, absent the stay of removal, there will be substantial and irreparable injury
to refugees, visa-holders, and other individuals from nations subject to the January 27, 2017 Executive
Order,” Donnelly wrote.
The ACLU hailed the victory.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-... 3/12/2017
Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘leg... Page 4 of 6
“Clearly the judge understood the possibility for irreparable harm to hundreds of immigrants and lawful
visitors to this country,” ACLU executive director Anthony D. Romero said in a statement. “Our courts today
worked as they should as bulwarks against government abuse or unconstitutional policies and orders. On
week one, Donald Trump suffered his first loss in court.”
On Sunday, the Department of Homeland Security issued a statement saying it did not plan to back off
enforcing Trump's orders.
“President Trump’s Executive Orders remain in place — prohibited travel will remain prohibited, and the
U.S. government retains its right to revoke visas at any time if required for national security or public
safety,” the statement read. “President Trump’s Executive Order affects a minor portion of international
travelers, and is a first step towards reestablishing control over America's borders and national security.”
The department said that less than 1 percent of daily international air travelers to the United States had
been “inconvenienced” on Saturday.
Matthew Kolken, an immigration attorney based in Buffalo said there has been “a systemic bias against
individuals from Muslim countries in the U.S. immigration departments” for years, including under the
Obama administration.
“This isn't unprecedented,” Kolken told The Washington Post by phone Sunday. “The unfortunate reality is
the executive branch does have vast discretionary authority to determine who they are going to [allow in or
not].”
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Still, Kolken said, he believes “Trump has gone a step further without a doubt” in including even people who
are lawful permanent residents and suspending all immigration applications from people from the seven
countries on the banned list.
If there was evidence of disparate treatment of individuals from the same country — if there were anecdotal
evidence of, for example, a Syrian family of one religious background allowed to enter over that of another
religious background — then that is where lawsuits could come into play, he said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-... 3/12/2017
Trump asked for a ‘Muslim ban,’ Giuliani says — and ordered a commission to do it ‘leg... Page 5 of 6
“The question becomes whether they're trying to do an end-around by couching the ban as a countryspecific ban based on a security-related issues when in reality it's a religious ban,” Kolken said.
Read more:
Fact Checker: What you need to know about terror threat from foreigners and Trump’s executive order
‘I am heartbroken’: Malala criticizes Trump for ‘closing the door on children’ fleeing violence
A ship full of refugees fleeing the Nazis once begged the U.S. for entry. They were turned back.
Trump’s travel ban could make Rex Tillerson’s potential job harder, a former defense secretary says
Amy B Wang is a general assignment reporter for The Washington Post.
Follow @amybwang
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Second Amended
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AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
Page 1 of 13
(/)
AP Exclusive:
DHS report
disputes threat
from banned
nations
By VIVIAN SALAMA (/journalist/viviansalama) and ALICIA A. CALDWELL
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(/content/alicia-caldwell)
Feb. 24, 2017 6:36 PM EST
(http://bigstory.ap.org/article/white-house-strainsanswer-if-trump-target-probe)
(http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/b89a121c72794bcfbfcc
fact-check-claims-presidents-defenders-wiretaps)
AP FACT CHECK: Claims of
(MAILTO:?SUBJECT=AP BIG STORY: AP EXCLUSIVE: DHS REPORT DISPUTES THR
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NATIONS&BODY=FROM AP, %0D%0A %0D%0AAP EXCLUSIVE: DHS REPORT DISPU
%0D%0A %0D%0AWASHINGTON (AP) — ANALYSTS AT THE HOMELAND SECURITY DE
FOUND INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE THAT CITIZENS OF SEVEN MUSLIM-MAJORITY COUN
(http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/b89a121c72794bcfbfcc
DONALD TRUMP'S TRAVEL BAN POSE A TERROR THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES. %
fact-check-claims-presidents-defenders-wiretaps)
(http://bigstory.ap.org/article/46be2a4a4b5645059350fbb46
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AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
1 photo
Page 2 of 13
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FILE - In this June 5, 2015 file
photo, a view of the Homeland
Security Department headquarters
in... Read more
WASHINGTON (AP) — Analysts at the
Homeland Security Department's
intelligence arm found insufficient
evidence that citizens of seven Muslimmajority countries included in President
Donald Trump's travel ban pose a
terror threat to the United States.
A draft document obtained by The
Associated Press concludes that
citizenship is an "unlikely indicator" of
terrorism threats to the United States
and that few people from the countries
Trump listed in his travel ban have
carried out attacks or been involved in
terrorism-related activities in the U.S.
since Syria's civil war started in 2011.
Trump cited terrorism concerns as the
primary reason he signed the sweeping
temporary travel ban in late January,
which also halted the U.S. refugee
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http://bigstory.ap.org/article/39f1f8e4ceed4a30a4570f693291c866/dhs-intel-report-dispute... 3/12/2017
AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
program. A federal judge in Washington
state blocked the government from
carrying out the order earlier this
month. Trump said Friday a new edict
would be announced soon. The
administration has been working on a
new version that could withstand legal
challenges.
Homeland Security spokeswoman
Gillian Christensen on Friday did not
dispute the report's authenticity, but
said it was not a final comprehensive
review of the government's intelligence.
"While DHS was asked to draft a
comprehensive report on this issue, the
document you're referencing was
commentary from a single intelligence
source versus an official, robust
document with thorough interagency
sourcing," Christensen said. "The ...
report does not include data from other
intelligence community sources. It is
incomplete."
The Homeland Security report is based
on unclassified information from Justice
Department press releases on
terrorism-related convictions and
attackers killed in the act, State
Department visa statistics, the 2016
Worldwide Threat Assessment from the
U.S. intelligence community and the
State Department Country Reports on
Terrorism 2015.
The three-page report challenges
Trump's core claims. It said that of 82
people the government determined
Page 3 of 13
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http://bigstory.ap.org/article/39f1f8e4ceed4a30a4570f693291c866/dhs-intel-report-dispute... 3/12/2017
AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
were inspired by a foreign terrorist
group to carry out or try to carry out an
attack in the United States, just over
half were U.S. citizens born in the
United States. The others were from 26
countries, led by Pakistan, Somalia,
Bangladesh, Cuba, Ethiopia, Iraq and
Uzbekistan. Of these, only Somalia and
Iraq were among the seven nations
included in the ban.
Of the other five nations, one person
each from Iran, Sudan and Yemen was
also involved in those terrorism cases,
but none from Syria. It did not say if any
were Libyan.
The report also found that terrorist
organizations in Iran, Libya, Somalia
and Sudan are regionally focused,
while groups in Iraq, Syria and Yemen
do pose a threat to the U.S.
Page 4 of 13
Barack Obama (/tags/barack-obama),
Middle East (/tags/middle-east),
Yemen (/tags/yemen),
War and unrest (/tags/war-and-unrest),
Government regulations (/tags/governmen
Somalia (/tags/somalia),
East Africa (/tags/east-africa),
Religious issues (/tags/religious-issues),
Religion (/tags/religion),
Travel (/tags/travel),
National governments (/tags/national-gove
Iraq (/tags/iraq), Iran (/tags/iran),
U.S. Department of State (/tags/us-departm
North Africa (/tags/north-africa),
Religion and politics (/tags/religion-and-po
Syria (/tags/syria),
National courts (/tags/national-courts),
Courts (/tags/courts),
Judiciary (/tags/judiciary),
Military and defense (/tags/military-and-de
Sudan (/tags/sudan),
Terrorism (/tags/terrorism),
National security (/tags/national-security),
Travel laws and regulations (/tags/travel-la
U.S. Department of Homeland Security (/ta
European Mass Migration Crisis (/tags/eur
Advertisement
The seven countries were included in a
law President Barack Obama signed in
2015 that updated visa requirements
for foreigners who had traveled to those
countries.
Christensen said the countries were
also selected in part because they
lacked the ability to properly vet their
citizens and don't cooperate with U.S.
efforts to screen people hoping to come
to the U.S.
The report was prepared as part of an
internal review Trump requested after
his executive order was blocked by the
9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. It was
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/39f1f8e4ceed4a30a4570f693291c866/dhs-intel-report-dispute... 3/12/2017
AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
Page 5 of 13
drafted by staff of the Homeland
Security Department's Intelligence and
Analysis branch at the direction of its
acting leader, David Glawe.
White House spokesman Michael Short
said this was not the full report that
Trump had requested. He said he
believes "the intel community is
combining resources to put together a
comprehensive report using all
available sources, not just open
sources, and which is driven by data,
not politics."
The intelligence document was
circulated beyond Homeland Security.
The draft document reflects the
tensions between the president's
political appointees and the civil
servants tasked with carrying out
Trump's ambitious and aggressive
agenda. Trump has repeatedly
complained about leaks meant to
undercut his policies and suggested he
does not trust holdovers from the
Obama administration.
Trump originally said the ban was
necessary to overhaul the vetting
system for both refugees and would-be
foreign visitors, saying that terrorists
may try to exploit weaknesses to gain
access to the United States. The order
sparked chaos, outrage and
widespread protests, with travelers
detained at airports and panicked
families searching for relatives.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/39f1f8e4ceed4a30a4570f693291c866/dhs-intel-report-dispute... 3/12/2017
AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
Page 6 of 13
But several courts quickly intervened
and the 9th Circuit ultimately upheld a
ruling blocking the ban and challenged
the administration's claim that it was
motivated by terrorism fears.
Trump's ban temporarily barred citizens
from the seven countries from coming
to the United States for three months.
The order also temporarily shut down
the U.S. refugee program for four
months and indefinitely banned anyone
from Syria.
A senior administration official told the
AP on Sunday that a draft of the
revised order will target those same
seven countries. The official would not
be named discussing the document
before it is made public.
In a speech to the Conservative
Political Action Committee Friday,
Trump reiterated his claims on
terrorism.
"We are going to keep radical Islamic
terrorists the hell out of our country,"
Trump said.
He said he singled out the seven
countries because they had already
been deemed a security concern by the
Obama administration.
___
Intelligence document available at
http://apne.ws/2lSKNUo
(http://apne.ws/2lSKNUo)
___
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/39f1f8e4ceed4a30a4570f693291c866/dhs-intel-report-dispute... 3/12/2017
AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
Page 7 of 13
Contact Alicia A. Caldwell on Twitter at
www.twitter.com/acaldwellap
(http://www.twitter.com/acaldwellap)
and Vivian Salama at
www.twitter.com/vmsalama
(http://www.twitter.com/vmsalama)
or https://www.ap.org/tips
(https://www.ap.org/tips)
Discuss this story on
Twitter or Facebook
@AP on Twitter
(https://twitter.com/AP)
AP on Facebook
(https://www.facebook.com/APNews/)
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AP Exclusive: DHS report disputes threat from banned nations
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 29
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 30
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 31
Little National Security Benefit to Trump’s Executive Order on Immigration | Cato @ Lib... Page 1 of 3
CATO AT LIBERTY
JANUARY 25, 2017 3:31PM
Little National Security Benefit
to Trump’s Executive Order on
Immigration
By ALEX NOWRASTEH
Tomorrow, President Trump is expected to sign an executive order enacting a 30-day
suspension of all visas for nationals from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and
Yemen. Foreigners from those seven nations have killed zero Americans in terrorist
attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and the end of 2015. Six Iranians, six Sudanese, two
Somalis, two Iraqis, and one Yemini have been convicted of attempting or carrying out
terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Zero Libyans or Syrians have been convicted of planning
a terrorist attack on U.S. soil during that time period.
Many other foreigners have been convicted of terrorism-related offenses that did not
include planning a terrorist attack on U.S. soil. One list released by Senator Jeff Sessions (R-AL) details 580 terror-related convictions since 9/11. This incomplete list
probably influenced which countries are temporarily banned, and likely provided justification for another section of Trump’s executive order, which directs the Department
of Homeland Security (DHS) to release all information on foreign-born terrorists going forward, and requires additional DHS reports to study foreign-born terrorism.
https://www.cato.org/blog/little-national-security-benefit-trumps-executive-order-immigrat... 3/12/2017
Little National Security Benefit to Trump’s Executive Order on Immigration | Cato @ Lib... Page 2 of 3
I exhaustively evaluated Senator Sessions’ list of convictions based on publicly available data and discovered some startling details.
First, 241 of the convictions (42 percent) were not for terrorism offenses. Senator Sessions puffed his numbers by including “terrorism-related convictions,” a nebulous category that includes investigations that begin due to a terrorism tip but then end in
non-terrorism convictions. My favorite examples of this are the convictions of Nasser
Abuali, Hussein Abuali, and Rabi Ahmed. An informant told the FBI that the trio tried
to purchase a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, but the FBI found no evidence supporting the accusation. The three individuals were instead convicted of receiving two
truckloads of stolen cereal. That is a crime but it is not terrorism.
Second, only 40 of the 580 convictions (6.9 percent) were for foreigners planning a
terrorist attack on U.S. soil. Seeking to join a foreign terrorist group overseas, material support for a foreign terrorist, and seeking to commit an act of terror on foreign soil
account for 180 of the 580 convictions (31 percent). Terrorism on foreign soil is a
crime, should be a crime, and those convicted of these offenses should be punished severely but the government cannot claim that these convictions made America safe
again because these folks were not targeting U.S. soil.
Third, 92 of the 580 convictions (16 percent) were for U.S. born citizens. No change in
immigration law, visa limitations, or more rigorous security checks would have
stopped them.
The executive order includes national security exemptions to be made on a case-bycase basis. The President reserves the option to ban the entry of nationals from additional countries in the future based on a national security risk report written by DHS.
Furthermore, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security can recommend visa
bans for nationals from additional countries at any time.
In addition to the visa restrictions above, Trump’s executive order further cuts the refugee program to 50,000 annually, indefinitely blocks all refugees from Syria, and suspends all refugee admissions for 120 days. This is a response to a phantom menace.
From 1975 to the end of 2015, 20 refugees have been convicted of attempting or committing terrorism on U.S. soil, and only three Americans have been killed in attacks
https://www.cato.org/blog/little-national-security-benefit-trumps-executive-order-immigrat... 3/12/2017
Little National Security Benefit to Trump’s Executive Order on Immigration | Cato @ Lib... Page 3 of 3
committed by refugees—all in the 1970s. Zero Americans have been killed by Syrian
refugees in a terrorist attack on U.S. soil. The annual chance of an American dying in a
terrorist attack committed by a refugee is one in 3.6 billion. The other 17 convictions
have mainly been for aiding or attempting to join foreign terrorists.
President Trump tweeted earlier this week that executive orders were intended to improve national security by reducing the terrorist threat. However, a rational evaluation of national security threats is not the basis for Trump’s orders, as the risk is fairly
small but the cost is great. The measures taken here will have virtually no effect on improving U.S. national security.
Topics: International Economics, Development & Immigration
Tags: Trump, executive order, terrorism, immigration, immigrants, ban, Muslim, refugees
This work by Cato Institute is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercialShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Printed From Cato.org
https://www.cato.org/blog/little-national-security-benefit-trumps-executive-order-immigrat... 3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 32
Immigration Ban Is Unlikely to Reduce Terrorist Threat, Experts Say - The New York Times
Page 1 of 6
https://nyti.ms/2jBTm40
POLITICS
|
NEWS ANALYSIS
Immigration Ban Is Unlikely to Reduce
Terrorist Threat, Experts Say
By SCOTT SHANE JAN. 28, 2017
Rarely does an executive order announce a more straightforward and laudable
purpose than the one President Trump signed on Friday: “Protecting the Nation
From Foreign Terrorist Entry Into the United States.” But the president’s directive is
unlikely to significantly reduce the terrorist threat in the United States, which has
been a minuscule part of the overall toll of violence since 2001.
Many experts believe the order’s unintended consequences will make the threat
worse.
While the order requires the Department of Homeland Security to issue a report
within 180 days providing detailed statistics on foreign nationals who commit acts of
violence, terrorism researchers have already produced rich and revealing data. For
instance, since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, no one has been killed in the
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/politics/a-sweeping-order-unlikely-to-reduce-terrorist-thr... 3/12/2017
Immigration Ban Is Unlikely to Reduce Terrorist Threat, Experts Say - The New York Times
Page 2 of 6
United States in a terrorist attack by anyone who emigrated from or whose parents
emigrated from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, the seven
countries targeted in the order’s 90-day visa ban, according to Charles Kurzman, a
sociology professor at the University of North Carolina.
Of Muslim Americans involved in violent extremism of any kind — for instance,
charged with plotting terrorism or supporting a terrorist group — only 23 percent
had family backgrounds in those countries, said Mr. Kurzman, who just published
the latest of his annual studies of Muslim Americans and terrorism.
The larger point of experts is that jihadist attacks garner news attention that far
outstrips their prevalence in the United States, and the president’s order appears to
address not a rational calculation of risks but the visceral fears that terrorists set out
to inflame.
There was a random quality to the list of countries: It excluded Saudi Arabia and
Egypt, where the founders of Al Qaeda and many other jihadist groups have
originated. Also excluded are Pakistan and Afghanistan, where persistent extremism
and decades of war have produced militants who have occasionally reached the
United States. Notably, perhaps, the list avoided Muslim countries where Mr. Trump
has major business ventures.
Nor did the list include the European countries where disenfranchised Muslim
communities have become hotbeds of militancy, leading to major attacks in Paris
and Brussels in the name of the Islamic State. Because no visas are required for
travel by most European citizens to the United States, and because of the volume of
tourism and business, restricting travel from Europe would have been far more
difficult and consequential than banning it from only the seven countries named.
By Mr. Kurzman’s count, 123 people have been killed in the United States by
Muslim terrorists since the 2001 attacks — out of a total of more than 230,000
killings, by gang members, drug dealers, angry spouses, white supremacists,
psychopaths, drunks and people of every description. So the order addresses, at
most, one-1,870th of the problem of lethal violence in America. If the toll of Sept. 11
is included, jihadists still account for just over 1 percent of killings.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/politics/a-sweeping-order-unlikely-to-reduce-terrorist-thr... 3/12/2017
Immigration Ban Is Unlikely to Reduce Terrorist Threat, Experts Say - The New York Times
Page 3 of 6
“My advice to the new administration would be to declare victory,” Mr.
Kurzman said. For the average American, he added, “your odds of being victimized
by a terrorist attack are infinitesimal.”
But terrorists — the root of the word means “to cause to tremble” — do not
operate in the realm of dry facts and statistics. Their purpose is to terrify, and they
use random and spectacular violence to do it, with an invaluable assist from the
saturation coverage on cable television and news websites that such outrages
inevitably draw.
To the rational calculations of Mr. Kurzman, one might simply reply with the list
of American cities where horrific jihadist attacks have occurred in recent years:
Boston; San Bernardino, Calif.; and Orlando, Fla. — place names that conjure up
images of ghastly wounds, bullet-ridden bodies and frightened people running for
cover. In Gallup polls, the number of Americans “very worried” or “somewhat
worried” about such attacks generally hovers between 30 and 50 percent, with
understandable spikes after new attacks.
In the political realm, where emotions and symbols hold sway, Mr. Trump’s
order may reassure some Americans that they are safer from terrorism, and more
generally, from concerns that Muslim immigrants may bring an alien culture. (While
ostensibly addressing terrorism, it also says that the United States should be
protected against those with “hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles”
or those “who do not support the Constitution.”)
The trouble with such reassurance, even if it is effective, is that it comes at a
high cost, in the view of many experts on terrorism. That cost will be counted not
just domestically but also abroad, where the United States relies on allies, including
Muslim countries, for intelligence and other help against terrorism.
“In my opinion, this is just a huge mistake in terms of counterterrorism
cooperation,” said Daniel Benjamin, formerly the State Department’s top
counterterrorism official and now a scholar at Dartmouth. “For the life of me, I don’t
see why we would want to alienate the Iraqis when they are the ground force against
ISIS.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/politics/a-sweeping-order-unlikely-to-reduce-terrorist-thr... 3/12/2017
Immigration Ban Is Unlikely to Reduce Terrorist Threat, Experts Say - The New York Times
Page 4 of 6
At home as well, Mr. Benjamin said, the president’s order is likely to prove
counterproductive. The jihadist threat in the United States has turned out to be
largely homegrown, he said, and the order will encourage precisely the resentments
and anxieties on the part of Muslims that fuel, in rare cases, support for the ideology
of the Islamic State or Al Qaeda.
“It sends an unmistakable message to the American Muslim community that
they are facing discrimination and isolation,” Mr. Benjamin said. That, he said, will
“feed the jihadist narrative” that the United States is at war with Islam, potentially
encouraging a few more Muslims to plot violence.
For an action aimed at terrorism, the order appeared to garner little or no
support among experts and former officials of every political stripe with experience
in the field. Jonathan Schanzer, the vice president for research at the conservative
Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, said that if the temporary visa ban was
used to review and improve immigration vetting procedures, it might be justified.
But he added that he knew of no obvious problems with those procedures, and
no specific plans to address such issues during the temporary restrictions on visitors
and refugees. “The order appears to be based mainly on a campaign promise,” he
said.
Mr. Schanzer said he was frustrated that during the Obama administration,
there had been inadequate attention to the ultimate driver of refugee flows and
jihadist terrorism in the United States and elsewhere. “We have several bloody,
complex and interlocking conflicts in the Middle East,” he said. “It’s the job of the
new administration to come up with policies that address those conflicts.
Admittedly, that is not easy.”
Much easier, clearly, is issuing an executive order with political appeal and a
title that seems to smack of common sense. But as the Trump administration is
finding out, such pronouncements from an American president have many
consequences, not all of them intended, anticipated or desired.
Correction: January 31, 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/politics/a-sweeping-order-unlikely-to-reduce-terrorist-thr... 3/12/2017
Immigration Ban Is Unlikely to Reduce Terrorist Threat, Experts Say - The New York Times
Page 5 of 6
A news analysis article on Sunday about the unlikelihood that President Trump’s
executive order on immigration would reduce the terrorist threat misstated the length of
the order’s ban on all visitors from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.
It is 90 days, not 120 days. (All refugees — including from those seven countries — are
subject to the 120-day ban.)
Follow Scott Shane on Twitter @ScottShaneNYT.
A version of this news analysis appears in print on January 29, 2017, on Page A1 of the New York edition
with the headline: Visceral Fear, Dubious Cure.
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 33
A week after President Donald Trump signed an executive order temporarily limiting travel and immigration to
the United States from seven countries, around 60,000 visas have been revoked as a result, according to
State Department officials.
On Jan. 27, the day the order was signed, an internal State Department notice ordered the provisional
revocation of visas from the affected countries: Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen.
The visas cannot be used for travel during the 90-day review period established by the order, but may again
become valid depending upon the outcome of the review.
13 Legal Actions Challenging Trump's Immigration Executive Order
Protesters Caused 'Only Disruption' Surrounding Immigration Order: White House Adviser
The number of revoked visas includes those belonging to thousands of people already in the country in
addition to those seeking to travel. As the visas expire, holders will be expected to leave the U.S. They would
not be eligible to return until the review period ends, assuming the administration reopens immigration from
these countries. Typically visa holders in the U.S. would be allowed to leave and return if the expiration date
had not been reached.
Asked at today’s White House press briefing whether the government will actively attempt to locate and
deport expired visa holders from the seven countries, Press Secretary Sean Spicer did not provide an
answer, saying he needed additional detail.
Earlier in the day, at a court hearing over a challenge to the executive order in Virginia, a Department of
Justice attorney reported that 100,000 visas had been rescinded since the order's signing.
However the State Department later had corrected that number, placing it a 60,000.
A spokesman for the attorney confirmed that greater number had been presented in court. The Justice
Department did not immediately provide an explanation for the discrepancy or how the lawyer arrived at
100,000. A State Department official noted that the agency is the custodian of visa records and stood by its
calculation of 60,000.
“We are not going to speak for DOJ, but our data crunchers are firm on this number,” said the official.
In 2015, the most recent year for which full data was available, the U.S. issued 531,000 immigrant visas and
nearly 11 million non-immigrant visas.
In a statement Friday evening, the Department of Homeland Security said that "pause" instituted by the
immigration order "does not apply to Lawful Permanent Residents, dual citizens with passports from a
country other than the seven listed, or those traveling on diplomatic, NATO or UN visas.
"Special Immigrant Visa holders who are nationals of these seven countries may board U.S.-bound planes,
and apply for and receive a national interest exception to the pause upon arrival," the statement said.
ABC News’ Pierre Thomas and James Hill contributed to this report.
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 34
Donald Trump’s combative, grievance-filled news conference, annota
The Fix
○
Page 1 of 40
Analysis
Donald Trump’s
combative, grievancefilled news conference,
annotated
By Aaron Blake February 16
A solemn President Trump turned his Thursday afternoon announcement of a new labor secretary
nominee into a screed against the media and large-scale defense of his first four weeks as president.
It was remarkable. Trump hit all the usual points: the polls, the electoral college, the media, etc. He even
said that he inherited a “mess” four separate times. There were grievances galore.
Below is the transcript, which we'll update as it comes in, along with our analysis and annotations.
TRUMP: Thank you very much.
I just wanted to begin by mentioning that the nominee for secretary of the Department of Labor will be Mr.
Alex Acosta. He has a law degree from Harvard Law School, was a great student; former clerk for Justice
Samuel Alito. And he has had a tremendous career. He's a member and has been a member of the National
Labor Relations Board, and has been through Senate confirmation three times, confirmed; did very, very
well.
And so Alex, I've wished him the best. We just spoke. And he's going to be — I think he'll be a tremendous
secretary of Labor.
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Donald Trump’s combative, grievance-filled news conference, annota
Page 2 of 40
And also as you probably heard just a little while ago, Mick Mulvaney, former congressman, has just been
approved, weeks late, I have to say that, weeks, weeks late, Office of Management and Budget. And he will
be I think a fantastic addition.
Paul Singer just left. As you know, Paul was very much involved with the anti-Trump or as they say, “never
Trump.” And Paul just left, and he's given us his total support. And it's all about unification. We're unifying
the party, and hopefully we're going to be able to unify the country. It's very important to me. I've been
talking about that for a long time. It's very, very important to me.
So I want to thank Paul Singer for being here and for coming up to the office. He was a very strong
opponent, and now he's a very strong ally. And I appreciate that.
I think I'll say a few words, and then we'll take some questions. And I had this time. We've been negotiating
a lot of different transactions to save money on contracts that were terrible, including airplane contracts
that were out of control and late and terrible; just absolutely catastrophic in terms of what was happening.
And we've done some really good work. We're very proud of that.
CONTENT FROM BANK OF AMERICA
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And then right after that, you prepare yourselves, we'll do some questions, unless you have enough
questions. That's always a possibility.
I'm here today to update the American people on the incredible progress that has been made in the last four
weeks since my inauguration. We have made incredible progress. I don't think there's ever been a president
elected who in this short period of time has done what we've done.
A new Rasmussen poll, in fact — because the people get it — much of the media doesn't get it. They actually
get it, but they don't write it. Let's put it that way. But a new Rasmussen poll just came out just a very short
while ago, and it has our approval rating at 55 percent and going up. The stock market has hit record
numbers, as you know. And there has been a tremendous surge of optimism in the business world, which is
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Donald Trump’s combative, grievance-filled news conference, annota
Page 3 of 40
— to me means something much different than it used to. It used to mean, “Oh, that's good.” Now it means,
“That's good for jobs.” Very different.
Plants and factories are already starting to move back into the United States, and big league — Ford,
General Motors, so many of them. I'm making this presentation directly to the American people, with the
media present, which is an honor to have you. This morning, because many of our nation's reporters and
folks will not tell you the truth, and will not treat the wonderful people of our country with the respect that
they deserve. And I hope going forward we can be a little bit — a little bit different, and maybe get along a
little bit better, if that's possible. Maybe it's not, and that's okay, too.
Unfortunately, much of the media in Washington, D.C., along with New York, Los Angeles, in particular,
speaks not for the people, but for the special interests and for those profiting off a very, very obviously
broken system. The press has become so dishonest that if we don't talk about it, we are doing a tremendous
disservice to the American people. Tremendous disservice. We have to talk about it, to find out what's going
on, because the press honestly is out of control. The level of dishonesty is out of control.
I ran for president to represent the citizens of our country. I am here to change the broken system so it
serves their families and their communities well. I am talking — and really talking on this very entrenched
power structure, and what we're doing is we're talking about the power structure; we're talking about its
entrenchment. As a result, the media is going through what they have to go through too often times distort
— not all the time — and some of the media is fantastic, I have to say — they're honest and fantastic.
But much of it is not a — the distortion — and we'll talk about it, you'll be able to ask me questions about it.
But we're not going to let it happen, because I'm here again, to take my message straight to the people. As
you know, our administration inherited many problems across the government and across the economy. To
be honest, I inherited a mess. It's a mess. At home and abroad, a mess. Jobs are pouring out of the country;
you see what's going on with all of the companies leaving our country, going to Mexico and other places, low
pay, low wages, mass instability overseas, no matter where you look. The Middle East is a disaster. North
Korea — we'll take care of it folks; we're going to take care of it all. I just want to let you know, I inherited a
mess.
Beginning on day one, our administration went to work to tackle these challenges. On foreign affairs, we've
already begun enormously productive talks with many foreign leaders, much of it you've covered, to move
forward toward stability, security and peace in the most troubled regions of the world, which there are
many. We have had great conversations with the United Kingdom, and meetings. Israel, Mexico, Japan,
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Donald Trump’s combative, grievance-filled news conference, annota
Page 4 of 40
China and Canada, really, really productive conversations. I would say far more productive than you would
understand.
We've even developed a new council with Canada to promote women's business leaders and entrepreneurs.
It's very important to me, very important to my daughter Ivanka. I have directed our defense community
headed by our great general, now Secretary [James] Mattis. He's over there now working very hard to
submit a plan for the defeat of ISIS [another name for the Islamic State], a group that celebrates the murder
and torture of innocent people in large sections of the world. It used to be a small group, now it's in large
sections of the world.
They've spread like cancer. ISIS has spread like cancer — another mess I inherited. And we have imposed
new sanctions on the nation of Iran, who has totally taken advantage of our previous administration, and
they're the world's top sponsor of terrorism, and we're not going to stop until that problem is properly
solved. And it's not properly solved now, it's one of the worst agreements I've ever seen drawn by anybody.
I've ordered plans to begin for the massive rebuilding of the United States military. Had great support from
the Senate, I've had great support from Congress, generally.
We've pursued this rebuilding in the hopes that we will never have to use this military, and I will tell you
that is my — I would be so happy if we never had to use it. But our country will never have had a military
like the military we're about to build and rebuild. We have the greatest people on Earth in our military, but
they don't have the right equipment and their equipment is old. I used it; I talked about it at every stop.
Depleted, it's depleted — it won't be depleted for long. And I think one of the reason I'm standing here
instead of other people is that frankly, I talked about we have to have a strong military.
We have to have a strong law enforcement also. So we do not go abroad in search of war, we really are
searching for peace, but it's peace through strength. At home, we have begun the monumental task of
returning the government back to the people on a scale not seen in many, many years. In each of these
actions, I'm keeping my promises to the American people. These are campaign promises.
Some people are so surprised that we're having strong borders. Well, that's what I've been talking about for
a year and a half, strong borders. They're so surprised, oh, he having strong borders, well that's what I've
been talking about to the press and to everybody else. One promise after another, after years of politicians
lying to you to get elected. They lied to the American people in order to get elected. Some of the things I'm
doing probably aren't popular but they're necessary for security and for other reasons.
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Donald Trump’s combative, grievance-filled news conference, annota
Page 5 of 40
And then coming to Washington and pursuing their own interests which is more important to many
politicians. I'm here following through on what I pledged to do. That's all I'm doing. I put it out before the
American people, got 306 electoral college votes. I wasn't supposed to get 222. They said there's no way to
get 222, 230 is impossible.
270 which you need, that was laughable. We got 306 because people came out and voted like they've never
[done] before, so that's the way it goes. I guess it was the biggest electoral college win since Ronald Reagan.
In other words, the media's trying to attack our administration because they know we are following through
on pledges that we made, and they're not happy about it for whatever reason.
And — but a lot of people are happy about it. In fact, I'll be in Melbourne, Florida, five o'clock on Saturday
and I heard — just heard that the crowds are massive that want to be there. I turn on the TV, open the
newspapers, and I see stories of chaos. Chaos. Yet, it is the exact opposite. This administration is running
like a fine-tuned machine, despite the fact that I can't get my Cabinet approved.
And they're outstanding people like Sen. Dan Coats who's there, one of the most respected men of the
Senate. He can't get approved [for director of National Intelligence]. How do you not approve him? He's
been a colleague — highly respected. Brilliant guy, great guy, everybody knows it. We're waiting for
approval. So we have a wonderful group of people that's working very hard, that's being very much
misrepresented about, and we can't let that happen.
So, if the Democrats who have — all you have to do is look at where they are right now. The only thing they
can do is delay because they screwed things up royally, believe me. Let me list to you some of the things that
we've done in just a short period of time. I just got here. And I got here with no Cabinet. Again, each of these
actions is a promise I made to the American people.
I'll go over just some of them, and we have a lot happening next week and in the weeks — in the weeks
coming. We've withdrawn from the job-killing disaster known as Trans Pacific Partnership. We're going to
make trade deals but we're going to have one-on-one deals, bilateral. We're going to have one-on-one deals.
We've directed the elimination of regulations that undermine manufacturing and call for expedited approval
of the permits needed for America and American infrastructure and that means plant, equipment, roads,
bridges, factories. People take 10, 15, 20 years to get disapproved for a factory. They go in for a permit, it's
many, many years. And then at the end of the process — they spend tens of millions of dollars on nonsense
and at the end of the process, they get rejected.
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Now, they may be rejected with me, but it's going to be a quick rejection. Not going to take years. But mostly
it's going to be an acceptance. We want plants built, and we want factories built, and we want the jobs. We
don't want the jobs going to other countries. We've imposed a hiring freeze on nonessential federal workers.
We've imposed a temporary moratorium on new federal regulations.
We've issued a game-changing new rule that says for each one new regulation, two old regulations must be
eliminated. Makes sense. Nobody's ever seen regulations like we have. You go to other countries and you
look at indexes they have, and you say “let me see your regulations,” and they're fraction, just a tiny fraction
of what we have. And I want regulations because I want safety, I want environmental — all environmental
situations to be taken properly care of. It's very important to me. But you don't need four or five or six
regulations to take care of the same thing.
We've stood up for the men and women of law enforcement, directing federal agencies to ensure they are
protected from crimes of violence. We've directed the creation of a task force for reducing violent crime in
America, including the horrendous situation — take a look at Chicago and others, taking place right now in
our inner cities. Horrible.
We've ordered the Department of Homeland Security and Justice to coordinate on a plan to destroy
criminal cartels coming into the United States with drugs. We're becoming a drug infested nation. Drugs are
becoming cheaper than candy bars. We are not going to let it happen any longer.
We've undertaken the most substantial border security measures in a generation to keep our nation and our
tax dollars safe. And are now in the process of beginning to build a promised wall on the southern border,
met with general — now [Homeland Security] Secretary [John] Kelly yesterday, and we're starting that
process. And the wall is going to be a great wall, and it's going to be a wall negotiated by me. The price is
going to come down just like it has on everything else I've negotiated for the government. And we are going
to have a wall that works, not gonna have a wall like they have now which is either nonexistent or a joke.
We've ordered a crackdown on sanctuary cities that refuse to comply with federal law and that harbor
criminal aliens, and we have ordered an end to the policy of catch and release on the border. No more
release. No matter who you are, release. We have begun a nationwide effort to remove criminal aliens, gang
members, drug dealers and others who pose a threat to public safety. We are saving American lives every
single day.
The court system has not made it easy for us. And are even creating a new office in Homeland Security
dedicated to the forgotten American victims of illegal immigrant violence, of which there are many. We have
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taken decisive action to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of our country. No parts [that] are necessary and
constitutional actions were blocked by judges, in my opinion, incorrect, and unsafe ruling. Our
administration is working night and day to keep you safe, including reporters safe. And is vigorously
defending this lawful order.
I will not back down from defending our country. I got elected on defense of our country. I keep my
campaign promises, and our citizens will be very happy when they see the result. They already are, I can tell
you that. Extreme vetting will be put in place, and it already is in place in many places.
In fact, we had to go quicker than we thought because of the bad decision we received from a circuit [court]
that has been overturned at a record number. I have heard 80 percent, I find that hard to believe, that is just
a number I heard, that they are overturned 80 percent of the time. I think that circuit is — that circuit is in
chaos and that circuit is frankly in turmoil. But we are appealing that, and we are going further.
We're issuing a new executive action next week that will comprehensively protect our country. So we'll be
going along the one path and hopefully winning that, at the same time we will be issuing a new and very
comprehensive order to protect our people. That will be done sometime next week, toward the beginning or
middle at the latest part.
We have also taken steps to begin construction of the Keystone Pipeline and Dakota Access Pipeline.
Thousands and thousands of jobs, and put new American measures in place to require American steel for
American pipelines. In other words, they build a pipeline in this country, and we use the powers of
government to make that pipeline happen, we want them to use American steel. And they are willing to do
that, but nobody ever asked before I came along. Even this order was drawn, and they didn't say that. And
I'm reading the order, I'm saying, why aren't we using American steel? And they said, that's a good idea, we
put it in.
To drain the swamp of corruption in Washington, D.C., I've started by imposing a five-year lobbying ban on
White House officials and a lifetime ban on lobbying for a foreign government.
We've begun preparing to repeal and replace Obamacare. Obamacare is a disaster, folks. It it's disaster. I
know you can say, oh, Obamacare. I mean, they fill up our alleys with people that you wonder how they get
there, but they are not the Republican people that our representatives are representing.
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So we've begun preparing to repeal and replace Obamacare and are deep in the midst of negotiations on a
very historic tax reform to bring our jobs back, to bring our jobs back to this country. Big league. It's already
happening. But big league.
I've also worked to install a Cabinet over the delays and obstruction of Senate Democrats. You've seen what
they've done over the last long number of years. That will be one of the great Cabinets ever assembled in
American history.
You look at [Secretary of State] Rex Tillerson. He's out there negotiating right now. General Mattis I
mentioned before, General Kelly. We have great, great people. Mick is with us now. We have great people.
Among their responsibilities will be ending the bleeding of jobs from our country and negotiating fair trade
deals for our citizens.
Now look, fair trade. Not free, fair. If a country is taking advantage of us, not going to let that happen
anymore. Every country takes advantage of us almost. I may be able to find a couple that don't. But for the
most part, that would be a very tough job for me to do.
Jobs have already started to surge. Since my election, Ford announced it will abandon its plans to build a
new factory in Mexico, and will instead invest $700 million in Michigan, creating many, many jobs.
Fiat Chrysler announced it will invest $1 billion in Ohio and Michigan, creating 2,000 new American jobs.
They were with me a week ago. You know you were here.
General Motors, likewise, committed to invest billions of dollars in its American manufacturing operation,
keeping many jobs here that were going to leave. And if I didn't get elected, believe me, they would have left.
And these jobs and these things that I'm announcing would never have come here.
Intel just announced that it will move ahead with a new plant in Arizona that [they] probably were never
going to move ahead with. And that will result in at least 10,000 American jobs.
Walmart announced it will create 10,000 jobs in the United States just this year because of our various
plans and initiatives. There will be many, many more, many more, these are a few that we're naming.
Other countries have been taking advantage of us for decades — decades, and decades, and decades, folks.
And we're not going to let that happen anymore. Not going to let it happen.
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And one more thing, I have kept my promise to the American people by nominating a justice of the United
States Supreme Court, Judge Neil Gorsuch, who is from my list of 20, and who will be a true defender of our
laws and our Constitution, highly respected, should get the votes from the Democrats. You may not see that.
But he'll get there one way or the other. But he should get there the old-fashioned way, and he should get
those votes.
This last month has represented an unprecedented degree of action on behalf of the great citizens of our
country. Again, I say it. There has never been a presidency that's done so much in such a short period of
time. And we have not even started the big work yet. That starts early next week.
Some very big things are going to be announced next week. So we are just getting started. We will be giving
a speech, as I said, in Melbourne, Florida, at 5 p.m. I hope to see you there.
And with that, I just say, God bless America, and let's take some questions.
Mara, Mara, go ahead. You were cut off pretty violently at our last news conference.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
TRUMP: Mike Flynn is a fine person, and I asked for his resignation. He respectfully gave it. He is a man
who there was a certain amount of information given to Vice President Pence, who is with us today. And I
was not happy with the way that information was given.
He didn't have to do that, because what he did wasn't wrong — what he did in terms of the information he
saw. What was wrong was the way that other people, including yourselves in this room, were given that
information, because that was classified information that was given illegally. That's the real problem.
And, you know, you can talk all you want about Russia, which was all a, you know, fake news, fabricated
deal, to try and make up for the loss of the Democrats and the press plays right into it. In fact, I saw a couple
of the people that were supposedly involved with all of this — that they know nothing about it; they weren't
in Russia; they never made a phone call to Russia; they never received a phone call.
It's all fake news. It's all fake news. The nice thing is, I see it starting to turn, where people are now looking
at the illegal — I think it's very important — the illegal, giving out classified information. It was — and let me
just tell you, it was given out like so much.
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I'll give you an example. I called, as you know, Mexico. It was a very, very confidential, classified call. But I
called Mexico. And in calling Mexico, I figured, oh, well that's — I spoke to the president of Mexico; I had a
good call. All of a sudden, it's out there for the world to see. It's supposed to be secret. It's supposed to be
either confidential or classified, in that case.
Same thing with Australia. All of a sudden, people are finding out exactly what took place. The same thing
happened with respect to General Flynn. Everybody saw this. And I'm saying — the first thing I thought of
when I heard about it is: How does the press get this information that's classified? How do they do it?
You know why? Because it's an illegal process, and the press should be ashamed of themselves. But more
importantly, the people that gave out the information to the press should be ashamed of themselves, really
ashamed.
Yes, go ahead.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
TRUMP: Because when I looked at the information, I said, “I don't think he did anything wrong; if anything,
he did something right.” He was coming into office. He looked at the information. He said, “Huh, that's
fine.” That's what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to — he didn't just call Russia. He called and
spoke to both ways, I think there were 30-some-odd countries. He's doing the job.
You know, he was doing his job. The thing is, he didn't tell our vice president properly, and then he said he
didn't remember. So either way, it wasn't very satisfactory to me. And I have somebody that I think will be
outstanding for the position. And that also helps, I think, in the making of my decision.
But he didn't tell the vice president of the United States the facts. And then he didn't remember. And that
just wasn't acceptable to me.
Yes?
QUESTION: (inaudible) clarification here. During your campaign, did anyone from your team (inaudible)
Russian government or Russian intelligence? And if so, what was the nature of those conversations
(inaudible)?
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TRUMP: The failing New York Times wrote a big, long front-page story yesterday. And it was very much
discredited, as you know. It was — it's a joke. And the people mentioned in the story, I notice they were on
television today saying they never even spoke to Russia. They weren't even a part, really — I mean, they
were such a minor part. They — I hadn't spoken to them.
I think the one person — I don't think I've ever spoken to him. I don't think I've ever met him. And he
actually said he was a very low-level member of, I think, a committee for a short period of time. I don't think
I ever met him. Now, it's possible that I walked into a room, and he was sitting there, but I don't think I ever
met him. I didn't talk to him ever. And he thought it was a joke.
The other person said he never spoke to Russia; never received a call. Look at his phone records, et cetera,
et cetera. And the other person, people knew that he represented various countries, but I don't think he
represented Russia, but knew that he represented various countries. That's what he does. I mean, people
know that.
That's Mr. [Paul] Manafort, who's — by the way, who's by the way a respected man. He's a respected man.
But I think he represented the Ukraine or Ukraine government or somebody, but everybody — people knew
that. Everybody knew that.
So, these people — and he said that he has absolutely nothing to do and never has with Russia. And he said
that very forcefully. I saw his statement. He said it very forcefully. Most of the papers don't print it because
that's not good for their stories.
So the three people that they talked about all totally deny it. And I can tell you, speaking for myself, I own
nothing in Russia. I have no loans in Russia. I don't have any deals in Russia. President [Vladimir] Putin
called me up very nicely to congratulate me on the win of the election.
He then, called me up extremely nicely to congratulate me on the inauguration, which was terrific. But so
did many other leaders, almost all other leaders from almost all of the countries. So that's the extent.
Russia is fake news. Russia — this is fake news put out by the media. The real news is the fact that people,
probably from the Obama administration because they're there, because we have our new people going in
place, right now.
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As you know, Mike Pompeo has — has now taken control of the CIA, James Comey at FBI, Dan Coats is
waiting to be approved, I mean he is a senator and a highly respected one, and he's still waiting to be
approved. But our new people are going in.
And just while you're at it, because you mentioned this, Wall Street Journal did a story today that was
almost as disgraceful as the failing New York Times' story, yesterday. And it talked about — these are front
page.
So director of national intelligence just put out, acting a statement, any suggestion that the United States
intelligence community, this was just given to us, is withholding information and not providing the best
possible intelligence to the president and his national security team is not true.
So they took this front page story out of the Wall Street Journal top, and they just wrote the story that is not
true. And I'll tell you something, I'll be honest, because I sort of enjoy this back and forth that I guess I have
all my life but I've never seen more dishonest media than frankly, the political media. I thought the financial
media was much better, much more honest.
But I will say that, I never get phone calls from the media. How did they write a story like that in the Wall
Street Journal without asking me or how did they write a story in the New York Times, put it on front page?
That was like the story they wrote about the women and me, front page, big massive story. And it was nasty
and then they called, they said we never said that, we like Mr. Trump. They called up my office, we like Mr.
Trump, we never said that.
And it was totally — they totally misrepresented those very wonderful women, I have to tell you, totally
misrepresented. I said give us the retraction. They never gave us a retraction and frankly, I then went on to
other things.
Okay, go ahead.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) said today that you have big intellectual margins (inaudible) 300 or more, or 350
electoral votes. President Obama about 365 (OFF-MIKE).
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yeah.
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QUESTION: Obama (OFF-MIKE) 426 on (OFF-MIKE). So why should Americans …
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: … I'm skipping that information, I don't know, I was just given, we had a very, very big margin.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) why should Americans trust you (OFF-MIKE) the information (OFF-MIKE)?
TRUMP: Well, I don't know, I was given that information. I was given — I actually, I've seen that
information around. But it was a very substantial victory, do you agree with that? Okay, thank you, that's …
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead, sir, yes?
QUESTION: Can you tell us in determining that Lieutenant General Flynn did — whether there was no
wrongdoing in your mind, what evidence was weighed? Did you ask for transcripts of these telephone
intercepts with Russian officials, particularly the [Russian] Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, who he was
communicating with?
What — what evidence did you weigh to determine that there was no wrongdoing? Further to that, sir, you
said on a couple of occasions this morning, you are going to aggressively pursue the source of these leaks.
TRUMP: We are.
QUESTION: Can we ask what you're going to do and also, we've heard about a — a review of the intelligence
community headed up by Steven Feinberg, what can you tell us about that?
TRUMP: Well, first of all about that, we now have Dan Coats, hopefully soon, Mike Pompeo and James
Comey, and they're in position, so I hope that we'll be able to straighten that out without using anybody
else.
The gentleman you mentioned is a very talented man, very successful man, and he's offered his services, and
you know, it's something we may take advantage of. But I don't think we will need that at all because of the
fact that you know, I think that we are gonna be able to straighten it out very easily on its own.
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As far as the general's concerned, when I first heard about it, I said huh, that doesn't sound wrong. My
counsel came, Don McGahn, White House Counsel, and he told me, and I asked him, he can speak very well
for himself. He said he doesn't think anything is wrong, you know, really didn't think.
It was really, what happened after that, but he didn't think anything was done wrong. I didn't either because
I waited a period of time, and I started to think about it, I said “well I don't see" -- to me, he was doing the
job.
The information was provided by — who I don't know, Sally Yates. And I was a little surprised because I said
“doesn't sound like he did anything wrong there.” But he did something wrong with respect to the vice
president, and I thought that was not acceptable. As far as — as far as the actual making the call, fact I've
watched various programs, and I've read various articles where he was just doing his job.
That was very normal. You know, first everybody got excited because they thought he did something wrong.
After they thought about it, it turned out he was just doing his job. So — and I do. And by the way, with all of
that being said, I do think he's a fine man.
QUESTION: Sir, if I could, on the leaks — on the leaks, sir …
TRUMP: … Go ahead. Finish off then I'll get you.
QUESTION: I'm sorry. What will you do on the leaks? You've said twice today …
TRUMP: … Yes, we're looking at them very — very, very serious. I've gone to all of the folks in charge of the
various agencies, and we're — I've actually called the Justice Department to look into the leaks. Those are
criminal leaks. They're put out by people either in agencies — I think you'll see it stopping because now we
have our people in. You know, again, we don't have our people in because we can't get them approved by the
Senate.
We just had Jeff Sessions approved. In Justice, as an example. So, we are looking into that very seriously.
It's a criminal act. You know what I say, when I — when I was called out on Mexico, I was shocked because
all this equipment, all this incredible phone equipment — when I was called out on Mexico, I was —
honestly, I was really, really surprised.
But I said 'you know, it doesn't make sense. That won't happen,' but that wasn't that important a call, it was
fine, I could show it to the world, and he could show it to the world, the president who's a very fine man, by
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the way. Same thing with Australia. I said “that's terrible that it was leaked,” but it wasn't that important.
But then I said to myself “what happens when I'm dealing with the problem of North Korea?”
What happens when I'm dealing with the problems in the Middle East? Are you folks going to be reporting
all of that very, very confidential information, very important, very — you know, I mean at the highest level?
Are you going to be reporting about that, too? So, I don't want classified information getting out to the
public, and in a way that was almost a test.
So I'm dealing with Mexico, I'm dealing with Argentina, we were dealing on this case with Mike Flynn. All
this information gets put into The Washington Post and gets put into the New York Times, and I'm saying
'what's going to happen when I'm dealing on the Middle East? What's going to happen when I'm dealing
with really, really important subjects like North Korea?'
We got to stop it. That's why it's a criminal penalty.
QUESTION: I just want to get you to clarify this very important point. Can you say definitively that nobody
on your campaign had any contacts with the Russians during the campaign? And on the leaks, is it fake
news or are these real leaks?
TRUMP: Well the leaks are real. You're the one that wrote about them and reported them, I mean the leaks
are real. You know what they said, you saw it, and the leaks are absolutely real. The news is fake because so
much of the news is fake. So one thing that I felt it was very important to do — and I hope we can correct it.
Because there's nobody I have more respect for — well, maybe a little bit but the reporters, good reporters.
It's very important to me and especially in this position. It's very important. I don't mind bad stories. I can
handle a bad story better than anybody as long as it's true and, you know, over a course of time, I'll make
mistakes, and you'll write badly and I'm okay with that. But I'm not okay when it is fake. I mean, I watch
CNN, it's so much anger and hatred and just the hatred.
I don't watch it any more because it's very good — he's saying no. It's okay, Jim. It's okay, Jim, you'll have
your chance. But I watch others, too. You're not the only one so don't feel badly. But I think it should be
straight. I think it should be — I think it would be frankly more interesting. I know how good everybody's
ratings are right now but I think that actually — I think that'd actually be better.
People — I mean, you have a lower approval rate than Congress. I think that's right. I don't know, Peter, is
that one, right? Because you know I think they have lower — I heard lower than Congress. But honestly, the
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public would appreciate it, I'd appreciate it — again, I don't mind bad stories when it's true, but we have an
administration where the Democrats are making it very difficult.
I think we're setting a record or close to a record in the time of approval of a Cabinet. I mean, the numbers
are crazy. When I'm looking, some of them had them approved immediately.
I'm going forever, and I still have a lot of people that we're waiting for. And that's all they're doing, is
delaying. And you look at [Senate Minority Leader Chuck] Schumer and the mess that he's got over there,
and they have nothing going. The only thing they can do is delay. And, you know, I think that they'd be
better served by, you know, approving and making sure that they're happy, and everybody's good.
And sometimes — I mean, I know President [Barack] Obama lost three or four, and you lose them on the
way, and that's okay. That's fine. But I think it would — I think they would be much better served, John, if
they just went through the process quickly. This is pure delay tactics.
And they say it, and everybody understands it. Yeah, go ahead, Jimmy.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
TRUMP: Well, I had nothing to do with it. I have nothing to do with Russia. I told you, I have no deals
there, I have no anything. Now, when WikiLeaks, which I had nothing to do with, comes out and happens to
give, they're not giving classified information. They're giving stuff — what was said at an office about Hillary
[Clinton] cheating on the debates.
Which, by the way, nobody mentions. Nobody mentions that Hillary received the questions to the debates.
Can you imagine — seriously — can you imagine if I received the questions? It would be the electric chair.
Okay, he should be put in the electric — you would even call for the reinstitution of the death penalty, okay.
Maybe not you, John. Yes? We'll do you next, Jim, I do you next.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) clarify —
TRUMP: Yes, yes, sure
QUESTION: Did you direct Mike Flynn to discuss sanctions with the Russian ambassador —
TRUMP: No, I didn't.
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QUESTION: — prior to your — TRUMP: No, I didn't.
QUESTION: — inauguration.
TRUMP: No, I didn't.
QUESTION: And then fired him —
TRUMP: Excuse me.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
TRUMP: No, I fired him because of what he said to Mike Pence. Very simple. Mike was doing his job. He
was calling countries and his counterparts. So, it certainly would have been okay with me if he did it. I
would have directed him to do it if I thought he wasn't doing it.
I didn't direct him, but I would have directed him because that's his job. And it came out that way — and in
all fairness, I watched Dr. Charles Krauthammer the other night say he was doing his job, and I agreed with
him. And since then, I've watched many other people say that.
No, I didn't direct him, but I would have directed him if he didn't do it. Okay? Jim?
QUESTION: Thank you very much, and just for the record, we don't hate you. I don't hate you.
TRUMP: Okay.
QUESTION: So, pass that along —
TRUMP: Ask — ask Jeff Zucker how he got his job. Okay?
QUESTION: If I may follow up on some of the questions that have taken place so far here, sir —
TRUMP: Well, that's — well, you know, we do have other people. You do have other people, and your ratings
aren't as good as some of the other people that are waiting.
QUESTION: It's pretty good right now, actually.
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TRUMP: Okay, go ahead, John.
QUESTION: If I may ask, sir, you said earlier that WikiLeaks was revealing information about the Hillary
Clinton campaign during the election cycle. You welcomed that. At one time —
TRUMP: I was okay with it.
QUESTION: -- you said — you said that you loved WikiLeaks. At another campaign news conference you
called on the Russians to find the missing 30,000 emails. I'm wondering, sir, if you —
TRUMP: Well, she was actually missing 33 and then that got extended with a pile after that.
QUESTION: Then …, your … numbers … were off, too.
TRUMP: No — no, but I did say 30. But it was actually higher than that.
QUESTION: If — if I may ask you, sir, it — it sounds as though you do not have much credibility here when
it comes to leaking if that is something that you encouraged during the campaign —
TRUMP: Okay, fair question. Ready?
QUESTION: Well, if I may ask you that —
TRUMP: No — no, but let me do one at a time.
QUESTION: If I may as a follow up?
TRUMP: Do you mind?
QUESTION: Yes, sir.
TRUMP: All right. So, in one case, you're talking about highly classified information. In the other case,
you're talking about John Podesta saying bad things about the boss. I will say this, if John Podesta said that
about me, and he was working for me, I would have fired him so fast, your head would have spun.
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He said terrible things about her. But it wasn't classified information. But in one case, you're talking about
classified — regardless, if you look at the RNC, we had a very strong — at my suggestion — and I give Reince
[Preibus] great credit for this — at my suggestion, because I know something about this world, I said I want
a very strong defensive mechanism.
I don't want to be hacked. And we did that. And you have seen that they tried to hack us, and they failed.
The DNC did not do that. And if they did it, they could not have been hacked. But they were hacked, and
terrible things came in. And, you know, the only thing that I do think is unfair is some of the things were so
— they were — when I heard some of those things I picked up the papers the next morning and said, oh, this
is going to be front page, it wasn't even in the papers.
Again, if I had that happen to me, it would be the biggest story in the history of publishing or the head of
newspapers. I would have been headline in every newspaper. I mean, think of it. They gave her the
questions to a debate, and she — and she should have reported herself.
Why did Hillary Clinton announce that, “I'm sorry, but I have been given the questions to a debate or a town
hall, and I feel that it's inappropriate, and I want to turn in CNN for not doing a good job.”
QUESTION: And if I may follow up on that, just something that Jonathan Karl was asking you about. You
said that the leaks are real, but the news is fake. I guess I don't understand. It seems that there's a
disconnect there. If the information coming from those leaks is real, then how can the stories be fake?
TRUMP: The reporting is fake. Look, look …
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: You know what it is? Here's the thing. The public isn't — you know, they read newspapers, they see
television, they watch. They don't know if it's true or false because they're not involved. I'm involved. I've
been involved with this stuff all my life. But I'm involved. So I know when you're telling the truth or when
you're not. I just see many, many untruthful things.
And I'll tell you what else I see. I see tone. You know the word “tone.” The tone is such hatred. I'm really not
a bad person, by the way. No, but the tone is such — I do get good ratings, you have to admit that — the tone
is such hatred.
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I watched this morning a couple of the networks. And I have to say, Fox & Friends in the morning, they're
very honorable people. They're very — not because they're good, because they hit me also when I do
something wrong. But they have the most honest morning show. That's all I can say. It's the most honest.
But the tone, Jim. If you look — the hatred. The, I mean, sometimes — sometimes somebody gets …
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Well, you look at your show that goes on at 10 o'clock in the evening. You just take a look at that
show. That is a constant hit. The panel is almost always exclusive anti-Trump. The good news is he doesn't
have good ratings. But the panel is almost exclusive anti-Trump. And the hatred and venom coming from
his mouth; the hatred coming from other people on your network.
Now, I will say this. I watch it. I see it. I'm amazed by it. And I just think you'd be a lot better off, I honestly
do. The public gets it, you know. Look, when I go to rallies, they turn around, they start screaming at CNN.
They want to throw their placards at CNN. You know.
I — I think you would do much better by being different. But you just take a look. Take a look at some of
your shows in the morning and the evening. If a guest comes out and says something positive about me, it's
— it's brutal.
Now, they'll take this news conference — I'm actually having a very good time, okay? But they'll take this
news conference — don't forget, that's the way I won. Remember, I used to give you a news conference every
time I made a speech, which was like every day. Okay?
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, that's how I won. I won with news conferences and probably speeches. I certainly didn't win
by people listening to you people. That's for sure. But I'm having a good time.
Tomorrow, they will say, “Donald Trump rants and raves at the press.” I'm not ranting and raving. I'm just
telling you. You know, you're dishonest people. But — but I'm not ranting and raving. I love this. I'm having
a good time doing it.
But tomorrow, the headlines are going to be, “Donald Trump rants and raves.” I'm not ranting and raving.
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Go ahead.
QUESTION: If I may, just one more follow-up …
TRUMP: Should I let him have a little bit more? What do you think, Peter? Peter, should I have — let him
have a little bit more?
Sit down. Sit down. We'll …
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: Just because of the attack of fake news and attacking our network, I just want to ask you, sir …
TRUMP: I'm changing it from fake news, though.
QUESTION: Doesn't that under …
TRUMP: Very fake news.
QUESTION: … I know, but aren't you …
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Go ahead.
QUESTION: Real news, Mr. President, real news.
TRUMP: And you're not related to our new …
QUESTION: I am not related, sir. No. I do like the sound of Secretary [Alex] Acosta, I must say.
TRUMP: I looked — you know, I looked at that name. I said, wait a minute, is there any relation there? Alex
Acosta.
QUESTION: I'm sure you checked that out, sir.
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TRUMP: Okay. Now I checked it — I said — they said, “No, sir.” I said, “Do me a favor, go back and check
the family tree.”
QUESTION: But aren't you — aren't you concerned, sir, that you are undermining the people's faith in the
First Amendment, freedom of the press, the press in this country, when you call stories you don't like “fake
news”? Why not just say it's a story I don't like.
TRUMP: I do that.
QUESTION: When you call it “fake news,” you're undermining confidence in our news media (inaudible)
important.
TRUMP: No, no. I do that. Here's the thing. Okay. I understand what you're — and you're right about that,
except this. See, I know when I should get good and when I should get bad. And sometimes I'll say, “Wow,
that's going to be a great story.” And I'll get killed.
I know what's good and bad. I'd be a pretty good reporter, not as good as you. But I know what's good. I
know what's bad. And when they change it and make it really bad, something that should be positive —
sometimes something that should be very positive, they'll make okay. They'll even make it negative.
So I understand it. So, because I'm there. I know what was said. I know who's saying it. I'm there. So it's
very important to me.
Look, I want to see an honest press. When I started off today by saying that it's so important to the public to
get an honest press. The press — the public doesn't believe you people anymore. Now, maybe I had
something to do with that. I don't know. But they don't believe you. If you were straight and really told it
like it is, as Howard Cosell used to say, right?
Of course, he had some questions also. But if you were straight, I would be your biggest booster. I would be
your biggest fan in the world, including bad stories about me. But if you go — as an example, you're CNN, I
mean it's story after story after story is bad. I won. I won. And the other thing, chaos because zero chaos. We
are running — this is a fine-tuned machine, and Reince happens to be doing a good job but half of his job is
putting out lies by the press.
You know, I said to him yesterday this whole Russia scam that you guys are building so that you don't talk
about the real subject which is illegal leaks, but I watched him yesterday working so hard to try and get that
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story proper. And I'm saying “here's my chief of staff,” a really good guy, did a phenomenal job at RNC. I
mean, he won the election, right?
We won the presidency. We got some senators, we got some — all over the country, you take a look, he's
done a great job. And I said to myself, you know — and I said to somebody that was in the room, I said “you
take a look at Reince, he's working so hard just putting out fires that are fake fires.” I mean, they're fake.
They're not true. And isn't that a shame because he'd rather be working on health care, he'd rather be
working on tax reform, Jim.
I mean that. I would be your biggest fan in the world if you treated me right. I sort of understand there's a
certain bias maybe by Jeff or somebody, you know — you know, whatever reason. But — and I understand
that. But you've got to be at least a little bit fair and that's why the public sees it. They see it. They see it's not
fair. You take a look at some of your shows and you see the bias and the hatred.
And the public is smart, they understand it. Go ahead.
QUESTION: (inaudible) … for those who believe that there is something to it, is there anything that you
have learned over the last few weeks that you might be able to reveal that might ease their concerns that this
isn't fake news? And second …
TRUMP: … I think they don't believe it. I don't think the public — that's why the Rasmussen poll just has me
through the roof. I don't think they believe it. Well, I guess one of the reasons I'm here today is to tell you
the whole Russian thing, that's a ruse. That's a ruse. And by the way, it would be great if we could get along
with Russia, just so you understand that.
Now tomorrow, you'll say “Donald Trump wants to get along with Russia, this is terrible.” It's not terrible.
It's good. We had Hillary Clinton try and do a reset. We had Hillary Clinton give Russia 20 percent of the
uranium in our country. You know what uranium is, right? This thing called nuclear weapons like lots of
things are done with uranium including some bad things.
Nobody talks about that. I didn't do anything for Russia. I've done nothing for Russia. Hillary Clinton gave
them 20 percent of our uranium. Hillary Clinton did a reset, remember? With the stupid plastic button that
made us all look like a bunch of jerks. Here, take a look. He looked at her like, what the hell is she doing
with that cheap plastic button?
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Hillary Clinton — that was the reset, remember it said reset? Now if I do that, oh, I'm a bad guy. If we could
get along with Russia, that's a positive thing. We have a very talented man, Rex Tillerson, who's going to be
meeting with them shortly and I told him. I said “I know politically it's probably not good for me.” The
greatest thing I could do is shoot that ship that's 30 miles off shore right out of the water.
Everyone in this country's going to say “oh, it's so great.” That's not great. That's not great. I would love to
be able to get along with Russia. Now, you've had a lot of presidents that haven't taken that tack. Look
where we are now. Look where we are now. So, if I can — now, I love to negotiate things, I do it really well,
and all that stuff. But — but it's possible I won't be able to get along with Putin.
Maybe it is. But I want to just tell you, the false reporting by the media, by you people, the false, horrible,
fake reporting makes it much harder to make a deal with Russia. And probably Putin said 'you know.' He's
sitting behind his desk, and he's saying 'you know, I see what's going on in the United States, I follow it
closely. It's going to be impossible for President Trump to ever get along with Russia because of all the
pressure he's got with this fake story.' Okay?
And that's a shame because if we could get along with Russia — and by the way, China and Japan and
everyone. If we could get along, it would be a positive thing, not a negative thing.
QUESTION: Is tax reform on the line?
QUESTION: Mr. President? Mr. President? Mr. President, since you …
TRUMP: Tax reform is going to happen fairly quickly. We're doing Obamacare. We're in final stages. We
should be submitting the initial plan in March, early March, I would say. And we have to, as you know,
statutorily and for reasons of budget, we have to go first. It's not like, frankly, the tax would be easier, in my
opinion, but for statutory reasons and for budgetary reasons, we have to submit the health care sooner.
So we'll be submitting health care sometime in early March, mid- March. And after that, we're going to
come up, and we're doing very well on tax reform.
Yes?
QUESTION: Mr. President, you mentioned Russia. Let's talk about some serious issues that have come up
in the last week that you have had to deal with as president of the United States.
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TRUMP: Okay.
QUESTION: You mentioned the vessel — the spy vessel off the coast of the United States.
TRUMP: Not good.
QUESTION: There was a ballistic missile test that many interpret as a violation of an agreement between
the two countries; and a Russian plane buzzed a U.S. destroyer.
TRUMP: Not good.
QUESTION: I listened to you during the campaign …
TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me. When did it happen? It happened when, if you were Putin right now, you
would say, 'Hey, we're back to the old games with the United States; there's no way Trump can ever do a
deal with us.' Because the — you have to understand. If I was just brutal on Russia right now, just brutal,
people would say, you would say, 'Oh, isn't that wonderful.' But I know you well enough.
Then you would say, 'Oh, he was too tough; he shouldn't have done that.' Look, all of the …
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: I'm just trying to find out your orientation to those …
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Wait a minute. Wait, wait. Excuse me just one second.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: All of those things that you mentioned are very recent, because probably Putin assumes that he's
not going to be able to make a deal with me because it's politically not popular for me to make a deal. So
Hillary Clinton tries a reset. It failed. They all tried. But I'm different than those people.
Go ahead.
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QUESTION: How are you interpreting those moves? And what do you intend to do about them? Have you
given Rex Tillerson any advice or counsel on how to deal?
TRUMP: I have. I have. And I'm so beautifully represented. I'm so honored that the Senate approved him.
He's going to be fantastic.
Yes, I think that I've already …
QUESTION: Is Putin testing you, do you believe, sir?
TRUMP: No, I don't think so. I think Putin probably assumes that he can't make a deal with me anymore
because politically it would be unpopular for a politician to make a deal. I can't believe I'm saying I'm a
politician, but I guess that's what I am now.
Because, look, it would be much easier for me to be tough on Russia, but then we're not going to make a
deal.
Now, I don't know that we're going to make a deal. I don't know. We might. We might not. But it would be
much easier for me to be so tough — the tougher I am on Russia, the better. But you know what? I want to
do the right thing for the American people. And to be honest, secondarily, I want to do the right thing for
the world.
If Russia and the United States actually got together and got along — and don't forget, we're a very powerful
nuclear country and so are they. There's no upside. We're a very powerful nuclear country and so are they. I
have been briefed. And I can tell you one thing about a briefing that we're allowed to say because anybody
that ever read the most basic book can say it, nuclear holocaust would be like no other.
They're a very powerful nuclear country and so are we. If we have a good relationship with Russia, believe
me, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
QUESTION: So when you say they're not good, do you mean that they are …
TRUMP: Who did I say is not good?
QUESTION: No, I read off the three things that have recently happened. Each one of them you said they're
not good.
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(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: No, it's not good, but they happened.
QUESTION: But do they damage the relationship? Do they undermine …
TRUMP: They all happened recently.
No …
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: … this country's ability to work with Russia?
TRUMP: They all happened recently. And I understand what they're doing because they're doing the same
thing.
Now, again, maybe I'm not going to be able to do a deal with Russia, but at least I will have tried. And if I
don't, does anybody really think that Hillary Clinton would be tougher on Russia than Donald Trump? Does
anybody in this room really believe that? Okay?
But I tell you one thing, she tried to make a deal. She had the reset. She gave all that valuable uranium away.
She did other things. You know, they say I'm close to Russia. Hillary Clinton gave away 20 percent of the
uranium in the United States. She's close to Russia.
QUESTION: Can we …
TRUMP: I gave — you know what I gave to Russia? You know what I gave? Nothing.
QUESTION: Can we conclude there will be no response to these particular provocations?
TRUMP: I'm not going to tell you anything about what response I do. I don't talk about military response. I
don't say I'm going into Mosul in four months. 'We are going to attack Mosul in four months.' Then three
months later, 'We are going to attack Mosul in one month.' 'Next week, we are going to attack Mosul.'
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In the meantime, Mosul is very, very difficult. Do you know why? Because I don't talk about military, and I
don't talk about certain other things, you're going to be surprised to hear that. And by the way, my whole
campaign, I'd say that. So I don't have to tell you. I don't want to be one of these guys that say, 'Yes, here's
what we're going to do.' I don't have to do that. I don't have to tell you what I'm going to do in North Korea.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Wait a minute. I don't have to tell you what I'm going to do in North Korea. And I don't have to tell
you what I'm going to do with Iran. You know why? Because they shouldn't know. And eventually, you guys
are going to get tired of asking that question.
TRUMP: So when you ask me what am I going to do with a ship, the Russian ship as an example, I'm not
going to tell you. But hopefully, I won't have to do anything, but I'm not going to tell you.
Okay.
QUESTION: Could I just ask you — thank you very much, Mr. President. The trouble …
TRUMP: Where are you from?
QUESTION: BBC.
TRUMP: Here's another beauty.
QUESTION: That's a good line. Impartial, free and fair.
TRUMP: Yeah. Sure.
QUESTION: Mr. President …
TRUMP: Just like CNN right?
QUESTION: On the travel ban — we could banter back and forth. On the travel ban would you accept that
that was a good example of the smooth running of government …
TRUMP: Yeah, I do. I do. Let me tell you about this government …
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QUESTION: Were there any mistakes …
TRUMP: Wait. Wait. I know who you are. Just wait.
Let me tell you about the travel ban. We had a very smooth rollout of the travel ban. But we had a bad court.
Got a bad decision. We had a court that's been overturned. Again, may be wrong. But I think it's 80 percent
of the time, a lot.
We had a bad decision. We're going to keep going with that decision. We're going to put in a new executive
order next week some time. But we had a bad decision.
That's the other thing that was wrong with the travel ban. You had Delta with a massive problem with their
computer system at the airports. You had some people that were put out there, brought by very nice buses,
and they were put out at various locations.
Despite that the only problem that we had is we had a bad court. We had a court that gave us what I
consider to be, with great respect, a very bad decision. Very bad for the safety and security of our country.
The rollout was perfect.
Now, what I wanted to do was do the exact same executive order, but said one thing. I said this to my
people. Give them a one-month period of time. But General Kelly, now Secretary Kelly, said if you do that,
all these people will come in and (inaudible) the bad ones.
You do agree there are bad people out there, right? That not everybody that's like you. You have some bad
people out there.
So Kelly said you can't do that. And he was right. As soon as he said it I said 'wow, never thought of it.' I said
'how about one week?' He said no good. You got to do it immediately because if you do it immediately they
don't have time to come in.
Now nobody ever reports that. But that's why we did it quickly.
Now, if I would've done it a month, everything would've been perfect. The problem is we would've wasted a
lot of time, and maybe a lot of lives because a lot of bad people would've come into our country.
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Now in the meantime, we're vetting very, very strongly. Very, very strongly. But we need help. And we need
help by getting that executive order passed.
QUESTION: Just a brief follow-up. But if it's so urgent, why not introduce …
TRUMP: Yes? Go ahead.
QUESTION: Thank you. I was just hoping that we could get a yes or no answer on one of these questions
involving Russia. Can you say whether you are aware that anyone who advised your campaign had contacts
with Russia during the course of the election?
TRUMP: Well I told you, Gen. Flynn obviously was dealing. So that's one person. But he was dealing, as he
should have been.
QUESTION: During the election?
TRUMP: No. Nobody that I know of. Nobody …
QUESTION: So you're not aware of any contact during the course.
TRUMP: Look, look, look …
QUESTION: … of the election?
TRUMP: How many times do I have to answer this question?
QUESTION: Can you just say yes or no?
TRUMP: Russia is a ruse.
I know you have to get up and ask a question. It's so important.
Russia is a ruse. I have nothing to do with Russia. Haven't made a phone call to Russia in years. Don't speak
to people from Russia. Not that I wouldn't. I just have nobody to speak to.
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I spoke to Putin twice. He called me on the election. I told you this. And he called me on the inauguration, a
few days ago.
We had a very good talk, especially the second one, lasted for a pretty long period of time. I'm sure you
probably get it because it was classified. So I'm sure everybody in this room perhaps has it. But we had a
very, very good talk.
I have nothing to do with Russia. To the best of my knowledge no person that I deal with does.
Now, Manafort has totally denied it. He denied it. Now people knew that he was a consultant over in that
part of the world for a while, but not for Russia. I think he represented Ukraine or people having to do with
Ukraine, or people that — whoever. But people knew that. Everybody knew that.
QUESTION: But in his capacity as your campaign manager, was he in touch with Russian officials during
the election?
TRUMP: You know what? He said no. I could only tell you what he — now he was replaced long before the
election. You know that, right?
He was replaced long before the election. When all of this stuff started coming out, it came out during the
election. But Paul Manafort, who's a good man also by the way, Paul Manafort was replaced long before the
election took place. He was only there for a short period of time.
QUESTION: Mr. President …
TRUMP: How much longer should we stay here, folks?
QUESTION: Mr. President …
TRUMP: Five more minutes. Is that okay? Five?
QUESTION: Mr. President, on national …
TRUMP: Wait. Let's see. Who's — I want to find a friendly reporter.
QUESTION: Mr. …
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TRUMP: Are you a friendly reporter? Watch how friendly he is. Wait. Wait. Watch how friendly he is. Go
ahead.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) …
TRUMP: Go ahead.
QUESTION: So first of all, my name is (Inaudible) from (Inaudible) magazine. I (inaudible). I haven't seen
anybody in my community, including yourself or any of the — anyone on your staff of being (OFF-MIKE).
Because (OFF-MIKE). However, what we've already heard about and what we (OFF-MIKE) is (OFF-MIKE)
so you're general forecast like 48 (OFF-MIKE). There are people who are everything … happens through
their packs … is one of the (OFF-MIKE) …
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: … he said he was gonna ask a very simple, easy question. And it's not, it's not, not — not a simple
question, not a fair question. Okay, sit down, I understand the rest of your question.
So here's the story, folks. No. 1, I am the least anti- Semitic person that you've ever seen in your entire life.
No. 2, racism, the least racist person. In fact, we did very well relative to other people running as a
Republican — quiet, quiet, quiet.
See, he lied about — he was gonna get up and ask a very straight, simple question, so you know, welcome to
the world of the media. But let me just tell you something, that I hate the charge, I find it repulsive.
I hate even the question because people that know me and you heard the [Israeli] prime minister, you heard
Ben Netanyahu yesterday, did you hear him, Bibi? He said, I've known Donald Trump for a long time and
then he said, forget it.
So you should take that instead of having to get up and ask a very insulting question like that.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.
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QUESTION: Thank you, I'm Lisa … from the …
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: See, it just shows you about the press, but that's the way the press is.
QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President. Lisa Desjardins from the PBS News Hour. On national security and
immigration, can you give us more details on the executive order you plan for next week? Even its broad
outlines?
TRUMP: Yeah.
QUESTION: Will it be focused on specific …
TRUMP: It's a very fair question.
QUESTION: … countries? And in addition, on the DACA program for immigration.
TRUMP: Right.
QUESTION: What is your plan, do you plan to continue that program or to end it?
TRUMP: We're gonna show great heart, DACA is a very, very difficult subject for me, I will tell you. To me,
it's one of the most difficult subjects I have because you have these incredible kids.
In many cases, not in all cases. And some of the cases, having DACA, and they're gang members, and they're
drug dealers, too. But you have some absolutely, incredible kids, I would say mostly. They were brought
here in such a way — it's a very — it's a very, very tough subject.
We're gonna deal with DACA with heart. I have to deal with a lot of politicians, don't forget, and I have to
convince them that what I'm saying is — is right. And I appreciate your understanding on that.
But the DACA situation is a very, very — it's a very difficult thing for me because you know, I love these kids,
I love kids, I have kids and grandkids. And I find it very, very hard doing what the law says exactly to do,
and you know, the law is rough.
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I'm not talking about new laws, I'm talking the existing law, is very rough, it's very, very rough. As far as the
new order, the new order is going to be very much tailored to the what I consider to be a very bad decision.
But we can tailor the order to that decision and get just about everything, in some ways, more. But we're
tailoring it now to the decision, we have some of the best lawyers in the country working on it.
And the new executive order, is being tailored to the decision we got down from the court. Okay?
QUESTION: Mr. President …
(CROSSTALK) QUESTION: … reopening of the White House Visitors Office?
TRUMP: Yes.
QUESTION: And she does a lot of great work for the country as well. Can you talk a little bit about what's
first for Melania Trump does for the country and (inaudible) so opening White House Visitors Office, what
does that mean …
TRUMP: Now, that's what I call a nice question. That is very — who are you with?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
TRUMP: Good, I'm gonna start watching, all right? Thank you very much. Melania's terrific, she was here
last night, we had dinner with Sen. [Marco] Rubio and his wife who is by the way, lovely.
And we had a really good discussion about Cuba because we have very similar views on Cuba. And Cuba was
very good to me in the Florida election, as you know the Cuban Americans. And I think that Melania's
gonna be outstanding, that's right, she just opened up the visitors center, in other words, touring of the
White House.
She, like others that she's working with, feel very, very strongly about women's issue, women's difficulties.
Very, very strongly, she's a very, very strong advocate. I think she's a great representative for this country.
And a funny thing happens, because she gets — she gets so unfairly — Melania, the things they say. I've
known her for a long time, she was a very successful person, she was a very successful model. She did really
well.
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She would go home at night and didn't even want to go out with people. She was a very private person. She
was always the highest quality that you'll ever find. And the things they say — I've known her for a long time
— the things they say are so unfair. And actually, she's been apologized to, as you know, by various media
because they said things that were lies.
I'll just tell you this. I think she's going to be a fantastic first lady. She's going to be a tremendous
representative of women and of the people. And helping her and working with her will be Ivanka, who is a
fabulous person and a fabulous, fabulous woman. And they're not doing this for money.
They're not doing this for pay, they're doing this because they feel it; both of them. And Melania goes back
and forth and after Barron finishes school — because it's hard to take a child out of school with a few
months left — she and Barron will be moving over to the White House. Okay, thank you, that's a very nice
question.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead.
QUESTION: Mr. Trump?
TRUMP: Yes, oh, this is going to be a bad question, but that's okay.
QUESTION: It doesn't have to be a bad question.
TRUMP: Good, because I enjoy watching you on television. Go ahead.
QUESTION: Well, thank you so much. Mr. President, I need to find out from you, you said something as it
relates to inner cities. That was one of your platforms during your campaign. Now you're —
TRUMP: Fix the inner cities.
QUESTION: -- president. Fixing the inner cities.
TRUMP: Yep.
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QUESTION: What will be that fix and your urban agenda as well as your HBCU Executive Order that's
coming out this afternoon? See, it wasn't bad, was it?
TRUMP: That was very professional and very good.
QUESTION: I'm very professional.
TRUMP: We'll be announcing the order in a little while, and I'd rather let the order speak for itself. But it
could be something that I think that will be very good for everybody concerned. But we'll talk to you about
that after we do the announcement. As far as the inner cities, as you know, I was very strong on the inner
cities during the campaign.
I think it's probably what got me a much higher percentage of the African American vote than a lot of people
thought I was going to get. We did, you know, much higher than people thought I was going to get. And I
was honored by that, including the Hispanic vote, which was also much higher.
And by the way, if I might add, including the women's vote, which was much higher than people thought I
was going to get. So, we are going to be working very hard on the inner cities, having to do with education,
having to do with crime. We're going to try and fix as quickly as possible — you know, it takes a long time.
It's taken more than a hundred years and more for some of these places to evolve, and they evolved, many of
them, very badly. But we're going to be working very hard on health and health care, very, very hard on
education, and also we're going to be working in a stringent way, in a very good way, on crime.
You go to some of these inner city places, and it's so sad when you look at the crime. You have people — and
I've seen this, and I've sort of witnessed it — in fact, in two cases I have actually witnessed it. They lock
themselves into apartments, petrified to even leave, in the middle of the day.
They're living in hell. We can't let that happen. So, we're going to be very, very strong. That's a great
question and — and it's a — it's a very difficult situation because it's been many, many years. It's been
festering for many, many years. But we have places in this country that we have to fix.
We have to help African American people that, for the most part, are stuck there. Hispanic American
people. We have Hispanic American people that are in the inner cities and they are living in hell. I mean,
you look at the numbers in Chicago. There are two Chicagos, as you know.
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There's one Chicago that's incredible, luxurious and all — and safe. There's another Chicago that's worse
than almost any of the places in the Middle East that we talk, and that you talk about, every night on the
newscasts. So, we're going to do a lot of work on the inner cities.
I have great people lined up to help with the inner cities. Okay?
QUESTION: Well, when you say the inner cities, are you going — are you going to include the CBC, Mr.
President, in your conversations with your — your urban agenda, your inner city agenda, as well as —
TRUMP: Am I going to include who?
QUESTION: Are you going to include the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional —
TRUMP: Well, I would. I tell you what, do you want to set up the meeting?
QUESTION: — Hispanic Caucus —
TRUMP: Do you want to set up the meeting?
QUESTION: No — no — no. I'm not —
TRUMP: Are they friends of yours?
QUESTION: I'm just a reporter.
TRUMP: Well, then, set up the meeting.
QUESTION: I know some of them, but I'm sure they're watching right now.
TRUMP: Let's go set up a meeting. I would love to meet with the Black Caucus. I think it's great, the
Congressional Black Caucus. I think it's great. I actually thought I had a meeting with Congressman [Elijah]
Cummings, and he was all excited. And then he said, well, I can't move, it might be bad for me politically. I
can't have that meeting.
I was all set to have the meeting. You know, we called him and called him. And he was all set. I spoke to him
on the phone, very nice guy.
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QUESTION: I hear he wanted that meeting with you as well.
TRUMP: He wanted it, but we called, called, called and can't make a meeting with him. Every day I walk
and say I would like to meet with him because I do want to solve the problem. But he probably was told by
Schumer or somebody like that, some other lightweight. He was probably told — he was probably told “don't
meet with Trump. It's bad politics.”
And that's part of the problem in this country. Okay, one more.
QUESTION: (inaudible)
TRUMP: No, no, one question. Two we can't handle. This room can't handle two. Go ahead, give me the
better of your two.
QUESTION: (inaudible) … not about your personality or your beliefs, talking about (inaudible), some of it
by supporters in your name. What do you …
TRUMP: … And some of it — can I be honest with you? And this has to do with racism and horrible things
that are put up. Some of it written by our opponents. You do know that. Do you understand that? You don't
think anybody would do a thing like that. Some of the signs you'll see are not put up by the people that love
or like Donald Trump, they're put up by the other side, and you think it's like playing it straight?
No. But you have some of those signs and some of that anger is caused by the other side. They'll do signs,
and they'll do drawings that are inappropriate. It won't be my people. It will be the people on the other side
to anger people like you. Okay.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead, go ahead.
QUESTION: You're the president now. What are you going to do about it?
TRUMP: Who is that? Where is that?
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QUESTION: What are you going to do about — what are you going to do about (inaudible).
TRUMP: Oh, I'm working on it. I'm working on it very — no, no, look. Hey, just so you understand, we had a
totally divided country for eight years and long before that. In all fairness to President Obama, long before
President Obama we have had a very divided — I didn't come along and divide this country. This country
was seriously divided before I got here.
We're going to work on it very hard. One of the questions I was asked, I thought it was a very good question
was about the inner cities. I mean, that's part of it. But we're going to work on education, we're going to
work on — you know, we're going to stop — we're going to try and stop the crime. We have great law
enforcement officials, we're going to try and stop crime.
We're not going to try and stop, we're going to stop crime. But it's very important to me — but this isn't
Donald Trump that divided a nation. We went eight years with President Obama and we went many years
before President Obama. We lived in a divided nation. And I am going to try — I will do everything within
my power to fix that. I want to thank everybody very much.
It's a great honor to be with you. Thank you. Thank you very much, thanks.
Aaron Blake is senior political reporter for The Fix. Follow @aaronblake
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FIRST 100 DAYS
Miller: New order will be responsive to the judicial ruling;
Rep. Ron DeSantis: Congress has gotten off to a slow start
Published February 21, 2017
FoxNews.com
This is a rush transcript from "The First 100 Days," February 21, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be
updated.
MARTHA MCCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Breaking tonight, we are live in
Jacksonville, Florida for a special immigration town hall, on the same day that
President Trump's Department of Homeland Security issued two very important
memos designed to crack down on illegal immigrants on our southern border.
Welcome to day 33 everybody of "The First 100." I'm Martha MacCallum and
this was President Trump just days here in Jacksonville before the election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The border crisis is the worst it's ever
been. It's a national emergency. They get caught again, they go to jail for five
years, guess what's going to happen? They're not coming back, folks. Now,
our people don't want to do it. Our weak, weak politicians don't want to do it.
A Trump administration will cancel all federal funding to sanctuary cities. We will end illegal immigration. We are going to
stop drugs from pouring into your communities and poisoning our youths and everybody else. And we will deport all
criminal aliens, quickly from our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCCALLUM: States like Florida, cities like Jacksonville, part of a movement behind the president's victory, drawn to him
by a host of issues, not the least of which was talk like that just days before the November election when, as you
remember, nobody thought he was going to win, but those ideas resonated in a big way and we are here tonight to speak
to people who helped to elect Mr. Trump and we'll ask them how they think it's going so far in the first 100 days and their
expectations that were set on immigration policy, its impact on jobs, on safety, on terrorism, and on the culture of the
communities that we all live in across this country.
The November exit polling from Florida helps to tell the story of why we are here tonight. Among 10 percent who said
immigration was the most important issue for them on Election Day, 69 percent of those voted for Donald Trump. Among
the 23 percent who said that most important issue to them was illegal immigrants working in the U.S. have to be deported
to their home country, 92 percent of those individuals voted for Donald Trump. We're going to get to all of that in moments
with a town hall meeting that includes lawmakers, law enforcement, and lots of average voters who've gathered here
tonight to have their voices heard.
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But, first, we go to the White House and Senior Advisor to the President, Stephen Miller, who helped to craft the
president's controversial executive order calling for more rigorous vetting of immigrants from seven Middle Eastern
countries. Mr. Miller, welcome. Good to have you here tonight.
STEPHEN MILLER, ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you.
MCCALLUM: So, everybody is anticipating the next rollout of the next executive order, which is supposed to clarify some
of the issues that were perhaps wrong with the first one and then got too caught up in the courts. So how is it going to be
different this time?
MILLER: Well, nothing was wrong with the first executive order. However, there was a flawed judicial ruling that was
erroneous. The president recently read to the statute from the Immigration and Nationality Act, which clearly states, he
has the power as president to impose any restrictions he deems necessary when it's in the national interest.
However, because of the exigency of the situation and the need to protect our country, and to protect our citizens, the
president is going to be issuing a new executive action based off of the judicial ruling, flawed though it may be, to protect
our country and to keep our people safe, and that is going to be coming very soon.
MCCALLUM: All right. (Inaudible) is 18-year-old, but he wants to know specifically how the second-order is going to be
different.
MILLER: Well, one of the big differences that you're going to see in the executive order is that it's going to be responsive
to the judicial ruling, which didn't exist previously. And so these are mostly minor technical differences. Fundamentally,
you're still going to have the same basic policy outcome for the country, but you're going to be responsive to a lot of very
technical issues that were brought up by the court and those will be addressed. But in terms of protecting the country,
those basic policies are still going to be in effect.
I want to try and broaden the conversation here and not get lost in all this technical minutia. Here's the reality. The United
States admits more people than any other country on the face of the earth. We've got a serious problem in our country of
terrorism, radicalization, and serious problems of people joining ISIS, joining terror groups, joining Al-Qaeda, and
committing or attempting to commit acts of crime and terror against our nation. We have seen a huge synapses between
this -MCCALLUM: Let me jump in on you there for a moment.
MILLER: Yeah.
MCCALLUM: Let me note that -- because here's one of the problems. Now, I know that you think the order was fine the
way it was issued initially. But courts disagree. In fact, 48 courts took issued with it and that's why it's halted right now as a
result of that process that happens in this country.
So, now you're about to issue another order and one of the things that would need to be addressed, it sounds like, is
proving that the seven countries that you have targeted are indeed the right ones to target and that you have merit and
reason for targeting those specific ones, rather than, let say, Saudi Arabia, right?
MILLER: Well, the reality is these seven countries were designated by President Obama and by Congress in 2015 and
2016. The reality is that the seven countries -- look at Yemen, look at Libya, look Syria, look at the conditions in these
countries. This is an assessment based on the threat that these countries pose today and going into the future. We've
had dozens and dozens of terrorism cases from these seven countries, case after case after case.
But more fundamentally, it's the position of our intelligence community that these countries today pose a threat to our
country moving forward and the president is acting decisively to protect our country from these threats. And the rulings
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from those courts were flawed, erroneous, and false. The president's actions were clearly legal and constitutional and
consistent with the long-standing traditions of presidents in the past to exercise the authority in the Immigration and
Nationality Act to suspend immigration when it poses a threat to our security. And that's what the president will do. In the
next few days, we will roll out the details of what that action will be.
MCCALLUM: And we understand -- I'm sorry. I think we have a little bit of a delay, so I don't mean to be stepping on you.
But I do understand that that's your perspective and that's the White House's argument and we'll see how that next
(inaudible).
One more question to you from one of our viewers for tonight if you will. Jack Capra who is a veteran in our audience this
evening, says how far is the administration willing to go to secure the southern border? Will the administration deploy the
U.S. military to do so?
MILLER: Well, right now we have 20,000 fantastic border patrol agents who are doing a great job. But, Martha, I really
want to try and broaden this conversation and get to the core of the issues here.
Whether we're talking about the new executive action and in the next few days we will be able to share the details what
that will be and how it's responsive to the court's ruling. Whether we're talking about the southern border, whether we're
talking about our guest worker programs, here's the core issue. It is the job of the president and the job of our government
to protect the hard-working people of this country, to protect their jobs, to protect their wages, to protect their communities,
to keep them safe from terrorism, and crime, and drugs, and wage depression.
Uncontrolled migration over many years has undermined wages, working prospects for people of all backgrounds, and all
walks of life and it's made us less safe. Proper controls will raise wages, improve employment, help migrant workers enter
the middle-class who are already living here, and keep us safe from threats of terror. And this president, and this
administration is fully committed to doing what is necessary, lawful, just, decent, and right, to take care of and to defend
hard-working, patriotic citizens and their communities.
MCCALLUM: All right. Well, we look very much forward to that second executive order and we'll watch the path and see if
it makes it through the courts and that, you know, the executive branch, the judicial branch, can find their way to put this
together. Thank you very much, Stephen Miller, for joining us from the White House tonight.
MILLER: Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thanks.
MCCALLUM: Good to have you with us. Thank you.
So let's bring in Jacksonville native and Florida congressman Ron DeSantis who is one of the first to stand by President
Trump's original order. Good to have you here tonight, Congressman.
REP. RON DESANTIS, R-FLORIDA: Thanks for coming down to Florida.
MCCALLUM: It's great to be here. Thank you for having us. So, one of the interesting comments from General Kelly
when he spoke about this the other day was that, you know, he wanted the second executive order to take place in a way
that we would not find people backed up in our airports. So he was acknowledging that there was some issue in this
rollout. What are your thoughts on that?
DESANTIS: Well, I think that's right. I mean, you have examples of, like a grandmother who is a green card holder
coming back from one of these countries, that's not where the threat is. The threats are with people who are unvetted.
These are countries that are either state sponsors of terrorism, or overrun in large degree by terrorist groups. And if you
look-- since 9/11, the biggest change in the terrorist threat has been how much it's expanded in different countries. You
have Somalia, other parts of Africa --
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MCCALLUM: So you think more than those seven should be on the list?
DESANTIS: Well, I think that -- if you read the executive order, that's a 90-day period. They are also going to be talking
with other countries. So people mentioned Saudi Arabia, so maybe Saudi Arabia doesn't have procedures that were -- that
are acceptable but -- so maybe there will be changes there. But I think we have to err on the side of caution. And my view
is we have immigration system, but that immigration system shouldn't make the American people assume risk for their
safety by us bringing in people we don't know.
MCCALLUM: Let's bring in some of our great audience that we have with us tonight. Let me start by going to Jack Capra,
who is with us tonight. You know, you listened to this conversation, Jack, and you're a veteran, so we thank you for your
service.
JACK CAPRA, WOUNDED VETERAN AND FLORIDA RESIDENT: Thank you. I actually used to work with
Congressman. Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCALLUM: -- so you're paying attention.
CAPRA: Yeah. I used to work with the congressman in Guantanamo few years ago. We both had duty there, so.
MCCALLUM: Well, welcome. It's great to have the two of you here together tonight and good to talk to you about these
serious issues. You listen to Stephen Miller from the White House. What did you think about what he had to say?
CAPRA: Well, I think his main argument was right on point and I agree with that. I think this is, you know, securing our
borders as a national security issue. It's not just -- of course, it's also about economics, but it is a national security issue
and it's the federal government's job to keep our people safe, keep our citizens safe from external and internal threats.
And so I think immigration is a big contributor to that.
MCCALLUM: Yeah. You know, obviously, the rollout of it didn't go quite as planned. You know, it brings me sort of a
general question that I want to put to all of you as we get going tonight. As you look at so far the first 100 days, we're on
day 33 right now. So I'm going to ask you to raise your hand for three different answers, OK.
So the first one would be, so far, are you, A -- no, you don't raise your hand yet because I want you to know all the options.
You can either be, A, thrilled. I'm really happy with how it's going. Or, B, you know, it's OK, but I think there's room for
improvement. And, C, I am a little disappointed. OK.
So raise your hand if you would say that you are thrilled with how it's going so far. Wow, that's a lot of folks. Look at that.
OK, what about choice B, which is I'm glad, but, you know, I'd like to see a little bit of improvement around the edges. OK.
So how many of you are disappointed, not happy with how it is going so far? A couple up here, one in the back there, one
back there. OK, all right. We're going to get around to you and hear some of your reasons for all of that. You know, what
do you think about that?
DESANTIS: Well, look, I think that Congress is -MCCALLUM: Which category do you fit in, first of all?
DESANTIS: Well, I think Congress has gotten off to a slow start.
MCCALLUM: Yeah.
DESANTIS: I think the president has done much better than we have. He's following through with what he said he would
do and we are kind of --
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MCCALLUM: Wow.
DESANTIS: We in the Congress were kind of getting to what we said we do, but we haven't quite gotten of it. I think we
will, but I think they've done a better start. It's also important to say, they're not confirming his nominees. He doesn't have
guy -- he's got like a fraction of a government in place because the Democrats in the Senate are basically trying to stall as
many people as possible.
MCCALLUM: So, let me go to somebody over here. Kris Koproski, who is the mother of three and you think that we need
to put a pause on emigration. So, are you -- how do you feel about the president so far and do you think Congress -- do
you agree with Congressman DeSantis that they're not pulling their weight?
KRIS KOPROSKI, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I am thrilled with what President Trump is doing. Congress, you know, they
need to get on board and specifically, the Democrats. He needs his cabinet, his full cabinet. And they're just seemed to
be stopping him at every turn. There's got to be a discussion open. They've got to be willing to give a little bit.
MCCALLUM: So you're nodding your head there. Who -- is anybody in particular in Congress that you're, you know,
disappointed in so far? And, you know, would you like to give them a message tonight?
CLAIRE FRANK, FLORIDA RESIDENT: How much time do you have?
MCCALLUM: I got about 48 minutes. Go ahead.
FRANK: I would say we finally have someone in office who is doing something probably not even -- the last president I
can think has done anything like this was Abraham Lincoln, who is trying to reunite the country. And that's what we voted
for him to do. And that's what he is doing.
Congress isn't getting behind us. I say, term limits. That way you can clean house, just like he's doing draining the
swamp. There's too many in there right now that, you know, are not doing their job. Stop voting -- McCain is a pain.
DESANTIS: I am the leader of the term limits movement in the House, so we do need to do that.
MCCALLUM: All right. So you're on your third term. So how many terms should he get? How many terms?
DESANTIS: Well, our amendment is three terms in the House and two terms in the Senate.
MCCALLUM: OK.
DESANTIS: The same on Trump endorsed during the campaign. So, let's get a vote and let see what we can do.
MCCALLUM: All right. We're just getting rolling here. Great job opening this conversation up here. So, coming to the
next moment, just today, the Trump administration ordered more border agents, 5,000 more, also, 10,000 more ICE agents
and plans to move ahead with the controversial wall plan on our southern border, so the fallout and the debate from the
floor here coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCCALLUM: Breaking tonight, just hours before the doors opened on our town hall meeting here in Jacksonville, Florida,
the Department of Homeland Security announced the brand-new priorities when it comes to their plan to deport illegal
immigrants.
The two memos from DHS Secretary John Kelly today say impart that his agency is going to use public safety to guide
their decisions, while the White House made a point of saying that there will be no longer special exceptions to the rules.
Watch.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: For so long, the people at ICE and CBP had their handcuffed
behind them when they were going to deal with the mission of their job. The last administration had so many carve outs
for who could be and who couldn't be adjudicated that it made it very difficult for the customs and enforcement people to
do their job and enforce the laws of this country. But, right now, what we've done is to make sure that they have the ability
and the guidance and the resources to do what they -- what their mission is. And that's it, plain and simple.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCCALLUM: Joining me now, Sarah Saldana. She was the Immigration and Customs Enforcement, better known as ICE,
director under President Obama. And Francisco Hernandez is an Immigration Attorney. Welcome. It's great to have both
of you with us tonight.
SARAH SALDANA, FORMER ICE DIRECTOR, 2014-2017: Thank you.
FRANCISCO HERNANDEZ, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Thank you for having me.
MCCALLUM: Sarah, he was calling you out a bit there.
SALDANA: Yes. I guess he was. But let me tell you something that is maybe not clearly known. I have been a law
enforcement officer. I was a prosecutor in Dallas. I was the United States Attorney in Dallas. And I think -- significantly, I
think that's one of the reasons that I was selected to be the director of ICE, because I believe in law enforcement. I believe
in rational law enforcement. So, that is my focus while I was director and I think we went about it in a good way, given the
fact that we had resources that were not unlimited.
MCCALLUM: All right. So, he's -- Sean Spicer was saying that under your direction and others, border enforcement
officials under the Obama administration that people weren't allowed to do their jobs. That the agents felt that they were
handcuffed, that they couldn't deport, that they couldn't detain to the extent that they wanted to. Is that fair?
SALDANA: The law is the law. So, with respect to detention and all of those things, we were guided by the law. We were
not guided by people's emotions or feelings or thoughts. We were guided by the law. We had priorities, just like this
executive order has priorities. We didn't exempt people. I guess one could look at it that way, but one could say that
about the executive order, as well.
We focused on serious criminals. And, in fact, our numbers went substantially up with respect to the portion of people that
we were removing or putting in removal proceedings, being convicted criminals or people who are not in the country legally
and there's a reason to remove them. Again, I am weighing as a manager, resources versus the threat to public safety.
MCCALLUM: So when you say resources, would you love to have had the 10,000 additional agents that John Kelly is now
going to get?
SALDANA: It would have been -- we certainly could have responded to Congressman DeSantis, wherever he is, when he
drove me on the hill about why we weren't departing more people. It certainly would have helped in that regard.
The important thing to me is not volume. Ask any law enforcement officer, the important thing to me is substance. Are we
protecting the American public by focusing on people who have no business being here, committing additional crimes, and
working against the interest of the American people?
MCCALLUM: Francisco, today, you know, just going through the headlines and looking at different web sites, you know,
the administration -- Trump administration cracks down. Illegal immigrants are scared. They're nervous about what they're
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hearing today and yet he also said that DACA would stay in place. That children who came here with their parents at a
young age would not be affected by this. So what's your reaction to these two memos today?
HERNANDEZ: Well, first of all, I can't argue with Ms. Saldana on qualifications. I feel like a thorn between two roses, OK.
But, quite frankly, President Trump has written a blank check that he can't cash. Just like the congressman said, he's
going to have to get the money from somewhere. You can't just say we're going to hire 20,000 agents (inaudible) Ms.
Saldana. You got to have the people.
No one is going to argue about whether you should deport people that commit repeated felonies, you're just barking up the
wrong tree. But quite frankly, you've got to do something to get that money and we don't have the money. So we do have
to focus, as Director Saldana said on the important things.
The deferred actions, yes, dreamers, Gob bless. Let's go and give them a green card, something to work towards,
something to earn that were brought into no fault of their own, no one can argue about that. So they're in limbo, but you
know what, we have -MCCALLUM: But he didn't pay them about (ph). He said that's off the table.
HERNANDEZ: That's off the table -MCCALLUM: Unless they have a criminal record.
HERNANDEZ: And the interesting thing is, you know, if President Trump argued that President Obama did not have the
executive or constitutional power to issue that executive order, well then, neither does he have the executive. So what's
good for the goose is good for the gander. So, that's our fear. If we're going to go with those executive orders for
President Trump, we've got to fund them. It costs money.
MCCALLUM: Let's get some questions from our group here. Hatice Iaconangelo. I'm sure I got that wrong. So what do
you think about what you're hearing here tonight?
HATICE IANCONANGELO, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I am horrified. I'm horrified. This is not the country I emigrated to.
Sure, when I first emigrated 26 years ago -MCCALLUM: From?
IANCONANGELO: From Germany. I am a native Berliner. I grew up with a wall. I know what the wall does to families. I
witnessed people getting shot crossing over the wall. And I see us as a nation going towards that again. It's horrifying.
Little by little, we are getting there. Berlin didn't start out just with a wall coming up instantly, the Russians shooting,
everybody. It starts gradually. And it gets worse and worse.
I want us to come together as a nation and have compassion for people. Don't just shut yourself off from that what you
don't understand, what you don't know. Why don't each one of you who are against immigration may be get to know a
refugee? Get to know an immigrant and see where they have come from and what they have gone through in life.
MCCALLUM: All right. Let me get a response from Bill Korach who is -- you're shaking your head pretty hard there, sir.
Why?
BILL KORACH, ST. JOHNS COUNTY COP CHAIRMAN: I was in Berlin when the wall was up. And the wall was meant to
keep people in, because the communist system was so horrible. This wall is being designed to protect our borders. We're
a sovereign nation. We should have sovereign borders. We are a nation of laws. If we don't have the rule of law, we don't
have sovereignty.
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IANCONANGELO: I am not against protecting the people here, absolutely not. But you don't realize, America is already so
safe. This is the safest place I feel on earth. I travel overseas every year. The law enforcement does a great job. The
customs office -MCCALLUM: Let me get an answer from Elvira and then we're going to go, so quickly
ELVIRA SALAZAR, MEGA T.V. ANCHOR: Good to see you. I think the greatness of a nation is measured not by the size
of its guns, but how we treat the most vulnerable members of society, and in this case, illegals or the undocumented. I
think that maybe we should take a look at immigration issue in a different way.
We should go to the root of the problem. And the root of the problem is very simple. It's called Honduras, El Salvador, and
Guatemala. President Trump has an outstanding opportunity. He is a businessman. He knows how to build coalitions.
He knows cultural sensitivities from other countries. He can go to those three countries that are exporting the majority of
the people that are knocking on our borders and help them put their house in order.
Then, we could avoid or save the money that we're going to be investing on the 20 million -- $20 billion that will cost to
build a wall along the Mexican border. And we could earmark those $280 million that we're giving to those three countries.
Earmarked that for what Nicaragua did. No one really talks about why Nicaraguans are not coming and knocking on our
border, because the -- and I'm not a friends of the Nicaraguan government, but they knew how to do it. And they could
help us solve the problem. That's another angle.
MCCALLUM: All right, thank you very much. So, officials in Miami-Dade, Florida got national attention when they decided
to stand against becoming a so-called sanctuary city. We will speak to the man behind that very controversial decision
here in Florida coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARTHA MACCALLUM, THE FIRST 100 DAYS HOST: So a point of hot contention in the immigration debate involves
so-called sanctuary cities scattered throughout the country. These are cities and towns which offer protections to illegal
immigrants by limiting cooperation with federal authorities. I want to start with our audience panel, and I'll ask you all a
question first which is a broad question in terms of priorities. It goes to what we're talking about earlier. So I will give you
three options and I want you to pick the one that you think should be the GOP priority right now, or the government's
priority, or for the whole country priority, regardless of your background. So choice number one will be immigration and the
wall, choice number two would be tax reform, and choice number three would be Obamacare repeal and replace. So this
goes to what we're talking about over here before in terms of what they're doing first. So if you want them to address
immigration and the wall first, raise your hand. Maybe a third, maybe less. Tax reform. Maybe half. All right, Obamacare,
repeal and replace. So, I'd say, closer to a third of third but I would say tax reform was the winner. So you want tax reform
to be a priority for the folks on Capitol Hill. So maybe they're listening to what you're saying here tonight. So, in terms of
immigration, I want to bring our guest, Diane Scheriff, and her daughter, Savannah. You were originally from San
Francisco, you live in this area now, right?
DIANE SCHERIFF: Right.
MACCALLUM: But you believe that it's not true that the jobs that are being done by illegal immigrants are jobs that
Americans don't want to do.
SCHERIFF: Yes and no. I mean, I think when I lived in California, I had a nanny at first that didn't have a green card. I
didn't know that. She was a very hard worker. But, there again, I think there are jobs that are open-- that would be open to
Americans, that are taken by illegal immigrants. And I just feel strongly that that is a huge deal in our country, especially
Florida, since we have such an influx of illegal immigrants.
MACCALLUM: Savannah, what about the issues of sanctuary cities?
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SAVANNAH SCHRIFF: Well, you know.
MACCALLUM: Having grown up in San Francisco, you know, I know you lived in a city that is a sanctuary city. Don't be
nervous. Particularly understandable, I scared you. Put that mic in front of your face. It's quite all right. I know the
feeling.
SCHERIFF: Sanctuary cities, you know, maybe I'll sound like a bad person here, but I'm frustrated that we even have
them. Because, I mean, honestly.
(APPLAUSE)
MACCALLUM: That's what Savannah was going to say.
SCHERIFF: It doesn't make sense to me. And the fact that they're growing now, not going away come. And again, I'm a
Californian, I live there. But San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, it doesn't make any sense to not work with local law
enforcement when it comes to immigrants and criminals.
MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. I'm joined now by the mayor of Miami- Dade, Mayor Gimenez, and Laura
Wilkenson. We've spoken before Laura. And Laura has a tough personal story. You lost your son to a person who was
here illegally. And I know you have stood next to President Trump many times as he has talked about Angel Moms. So
you took a tough stance and said we are not going to be a sanctuary city anymore in Miami. Has there been a backlash
against that in your area?
CARLOS GIMENEZ, MAYOR MIAMI-DADE: Yes, there has been. And we have very vocal opposition to what we did.
But, you know, what I say to people that tell me that, hey, I really like what you did, I tell them that, you know, I really did a
lot less than what you thought I did. And the people that are vocally against it, I say, you know, I did a lot less than what
you thought I did. Really, all we did is we labeled a sanctuary city by the Obama administration and the justice department
because we were requesting reimbursement from the federal government for detainer requests. And what I did is I said,
we know longer need to have that voucher from the federal government saying that they're going to pay us for our costs for
detaining these people of interest to immigration. That's all we did. And by doing that, it basically took us off the list of
being a sanctuary city. Miami- Dade County has never thought of itself as a sanctuary city. Even when we pass that
resolution back in 2014, we didn't think that that would place us as a sanctuary city. So, basically, taking that off, basically
now -- and now my.
MACCALLUM: The financial decision.
GIMENEZ: Yes, obviously, because we were being threatened with millions of dollars in federal funding that we need to
provide services for the 2.7 million people of Miami-Dade County.
MACCALLUM: Laura, the president said that he is not going -- he is going to respect DACA. How did you feel about that?
LAURA WILKENSON: Well, I believe there is going to be a process no matter how you do it. Somebody is going to be
inconvenienced. This law -- I mean, without the immigration laws being enforced, this country has run amok. At any way
that he doesn't, there is going to be an inconvenience to people. But, for myself, I think if you're not bearing your child in
the ground and turning around and walking away, it is not an inconvenience that you can't deal with.
(APPLAUSE)
MACCALLUM: In terms of your son and your situation, that young man was brought here by his parents.
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WILKENSON: Yes. He was a dreamer, brought here when he was ten from Belize. He had been charged with the crime
of harassment but not convicted. And then, he murdered Joshua while he was out on bond for that. He should never have
gotten a bond at the very least. They're a flight risk. And you don't want to wait until they murder your kid, until you say,
OK, time-out, now you are in trouble. It's ridiculous. Nobody gets sanctuary from the law. There is nothing I could do and
be given sanctuary from it, and there is no reason for anybody else to have that, as well.
(APPLAUSE)
MACCALLUM: Do you believe that you're getting somewhere with your cause?
WILKENSON: Absolutely, yes. Mr. Trump had said he would put a crime victim in -- a program in place. It's called Voice,
I believe. And it's to help victims like myself, the real victims. And this gentleman earlier talked about getting some of the
money, you know, if you can defund sanctuary cities, there comes the money. He can also take the money away from the
325 agencies in this country that help illegal aliens -- I mean, help them navigate the system. There is not one place or
one program in place to help myself.
(APPLAUSE)
MACCALLUM: Thank you, Laura. Good to have you both here tonight. So we're coming to you tonight from a state
where there are many jobs that go to legal and illegal immigrants. And when we come back, we are going to hear from our
audience about the president's pledge to put America first. How do they think that's going? We'll ask them right after this.
(APPLAUSE)
MACCALLUM: So when President Trump campaigned on the slogan of America first, a lot of that message was about
bringing jobs back to American workers. But are they prepared to take the low wage jobs taken by illegal and legal
immigrants? Joining us now, Javier Palomerez, he's president of the U.S.-Hispanic chamber of commerce, and on
President Trump's diversity coalition. Although, he was a Hillary Clinton fan at the beginning, and Cindy Nava, a dreamer
and Democratic national committee fellow. Welcome to both of you. Good to have you here today. So, Javier, first of all,
you're a Hillary Clinton supporter. What made you change your tune?
JAVIER PALOMAREZ, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.-HISPANIC CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Well, you know, the reality of
it is that -- back then, when we were convinced that our side was going to win, we asked of Donald Trump that he honored
the will of the people and that he respect the results of this election. The reality of it is, he won, he is now the 45th
president of the United States of America, and I'm going to do everything I can to live up to the exact same thing we asked
of him. I'm going to honor the will of the people. I'm going to honor the results of this election.
(APPLAUSE)
PALOMAREZ: And me and my association, a 4.1 million Hispanic-owned firms in this country that contribute over $668
billion to the American economy are going to do everything we can to help this administration move our country forward.
At a time that I think we need to collaborate to move in the right direction.
MACCALLUM: Cindy, you're a dreamer.
CINDY NAVA, DREAMER: I am.
MACCALLUM: So, what do you think about what happened today, and the exemption for DACA children, like yourself?
And do you believe that there is -- you're talking about common ground. Is there common ground? And do you think that
this administration wants to find it? And do you think the resistors and the never Trumpers also want to?
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NAVA: You know, Martha, I really think that this is a first step towards what really needs to happen, which is to address
comprehensive immigration reform. And this is truly surprising I think for many of us that President Trump decided to keep
DACA intact. And that's great and that's good. But, right now, there's a lot to fear out in the communities. There's actually
some dreamers that have been targeted. And we have families. So what's happening to our families, you know, that's
always a concern. So just because we may be feeling a little bit sick here, does not mean that the community is throughout
the country are. And DACA comes with many benefits such as a ban on parole, which many people are not familiar with.
But advance parole is something that we can request through humanitarian clause, educational, or other -- you know,
there's three clauses, and I was able to get that because my grandmother was ill in Mexico, and she was dying. And I was
able to spend the five last days of her life with her.
MACCALLUM: I want to get a couple of our friends up here. And, again, Earline Shipper, so she's talking about families
and keeping people together, what do you say?
EARLINE SHIPPER, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I think it's a wonderful idea that we keep families together. I'm happy that this
particular decision was made. But I still think that immigration is a very serious situation that has to be controlled and we
have to take care of illegals coming into the country that are going to cause harm and we should send them back.
MACCALLUM: Eric, what do you think?
(APPLAUSE)
ERIC WEST, FLORIDA RESIDENT: The amount of people that have come into the country that are taking welfare and
other government benefits is way too much. We don't need any more welfare recipients in this country. We need people
that are going to bring jobs and doctors and things to this country to help our economy. When 91 percent of the Syrian
refugees or refugees that comes to this country get welfare, something is wrong. We're committing financial suicide.
(APPLAUSE)
MACCALLUM: Pablo Manriquez.
PABLO MANRIQUEZ, FORMER DNC OFFICIAL: Well, I think the thing to keep in mind here is that Donald Trump did
inherit a mess when it comes to immigration. I was one of the people who raised my hand earlier that I am disgusted with
how this presidency is going. But I was disgusted with how President Obama's presidency went on this topic, as well. I
knocked on thousands of Hispanic doors in particular in 2008, telling people that President Obama was going to offer -Senator Obama at the time was going to offer them some form of relief. He betrayed us. He betrayed us to the tune of 2.8
million deportations. And the reality is that the communities that Cindy is talking about right now do live in fear. And that
fear keeps them from working with the police. For example, if a wife is being battered and she is worried that by going to
the police she is going to be detained for her immigration status, that's just going to create more battered women. So.
(BOOS)
MANRIQUEZ: It's true. It's true. I think the point here is that immigrants have already been betrayed by one presidency.
And what Donald Trump did today by offering DACA kids hope was a good thing, a very good thing. And I applaud him
for it.
MACCALLUM: I mean, the people that they're targeting are either criminals or they have final deportation orders, which
means that they were notified sometimes ago. And they have been told for quite some time in many cases. They have left
and come back against those orders. So those are the people who are being targeted first by the directive that we've got
today. So we've got more to come back to after this quick break. So stay with us. But coming up, how do those who have
come to America from abroad feel about the moves that have been taken by this administration? We're going to talk to two
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people from this community touched personally by this issue when we come back. Stay with us live in Jacksonville,
Florida.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So as we wait, President Trump's revised order calling for more vigorous vetting of immigrants from seven
Middle Eastern countries. We wanted to talk to a couple of local residents in the Jacksonville area for whom this is a large
issue, very near and dear to their hearts. Joanne Farhire is an immigration attorney and legal immigrants and now a
citizen of the United States. And Hajdary Mohammad is a recent immigrant to Jacksonville from Afghanistan. He spent
nine years helping our U.S. troops in his home country. And we thank you for that.
(APPLAUSE)
MACCALLUM: That is a special category of people that I know you -- I would assume feel in the initial order really got
short thrift. Tell me.
HAJDARY MOHAMMAD, REFUGEE FROM AFGHANISTAN: What was the.
MACCALLUM: In terms of people who helped our troops, like you did. In the initial executive order, they were very
concerned about their families that they wouldn't be able to get the men, and feel that you have given a great deal to this
country, right?
MOHAMMAD: Yeah. Actually, I worked like nine years with the U.S. army in Afghanistan. So like four years for the U.S.
army, and five years with the U.S. Special Forces in Afghanistan. So, I mean, because of my work, and my face, and my
name, will become known. I am one of those people that they tried to kill. And so, you know, I applied for immigration to
come to the United States. I wanted to restart my life, basically from zero to the United States. And I still got some more
friends that are there right now working with the special ops in Afghanistan. And they are hoping to come to the United
States for a better life.
MACCALLUM: OK. Joanne, tell us what you think about this new directive and whether or not you're optimistic about
them, and whether or not people like Hajdary and the other colleagues who he works with will be protected.
JOANNE FARHIRE, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: You know I am optimistic. I am hoping that President Trump does
realize that there is an issue with immigration, that the immigration system needs to be worked on. But, you know, the way
he implemented the executive order before, it did impact victims, you know, the refugees that were coming in, these are
people who have already been victimized. They're fleeing their countries because they've been persecuted where they
have a well-founded fear of persecution.
I understand and I totally support the need for strong borders and security of United States. You know, I am a Republican.
I supported the Republican president. However, I don't support the weight that this immigration ban was handled. You
have to understand that these are people that are fleeing and they are in fear of their life. So to bring them into this
country, they land in an airport, and then they're detained again where they spent.
MACCALLUM: And they're going to try to get that right this time. I want to get a quick thought from Ron Stafford, pastor.
You're listening to all of this. We're talking about compassion and we're talking about security. What do you think?
RON STAFFORD, PASTOR AND FLORIDA RESIDENT: I think the compassion comes with the security. The president,
he's working very hard to secure our borders. But yet, those who have green cards and have already been vetted, I think
the compassion comes in when you can allow those people to come in.
And if they need anything else that needs to be done, then they can finish the investigation. But you must have some
compassion for those who put their lives on the line for our country. Those who are here and working, we must begin to
work to help them to become citizens.
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MACCALLUM: Thank you, pastor. A quick break, we will be right back live from Jacksonville.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: That has been a very eye-opening conversation here tonight in Jacksonville, Florida. I want to thank all of
our guests and our panelist for taking the time to discuss these hot button issues that are very much in all of our minds
right now, dealing with immigration in America. We would love to hear from you at home, too. Go to
facebook.com/marthamaccallum, you can leave me a message or send me a tweet @marthamaccallum, #first100.
Thanks for watching it, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow night. Thank you.
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 36
Press Briefing by Press Secretary Sean Spicer, 2/27/2017, #17 | whitehouse.gov
the WHITE HOUSE
Page 1 of 34
PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP
From the Press Office
Speeches & Remarks
Press Briefings
Statements & Releases
Presidential Actions
Legislation
Nominations & Appointments
Disclosures
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
February 27, 2017
Press Briefing by Press
Secretary Sean Spicer,
2/27/2017, #17
James S. Brady Briefing Room
1:43 P.M. EST
MR. SPICER: Wow, that's a crowd. I hope everyone had a great weekend. Good
afternoon. Before I begin, I wanted to introduce the Director of the Office of
Management and Budget, Mick Mulvaney, to talk to you a bit about the President's
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budget. When Director Mulvaney is finished, we will allow him to take a few
questions and then resume the briefing and all the fun that goes with it.
So without any further ado, Director Mulvaney.
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: Thanks very much. I want to talk for a few minutes
about the budget blueprint that most of you know the President started speaking about
this morning with the governors. I'll talk a little bit about what it is and what it isn't,
and then talk about where we are in the budget process and what it looks like from
here.
First of all, what this isn't: This is not a full-blown budget. That will not come until
May. So you're not going to see anything in here that has to do with mandatory
spending, entitlement reforms, tax policies, revenue projections, or the infrastructure
plan. This blueprint was never going to be that, as I made clear during my Senate
confirmation. It is a topline number only.
As for what it is, these are the President's policies, as reflected in topline discretionary
spending. To that end, it is a true America-first budget. It will show the President is
keeping his promises and doing exactly what he said he was going to do when he ran
for office. It prioritizes rebuilding the military, including restoring our nuclear
capabilities; protecting the nation and securing the border; enforcing the laws currently
on the books; taking care of vets; and increasing school choice. And it does all of that
without adding to the currently projected FY 2018 deficit.
The top line defense discretionary number is $603 billion. That's a $54-billion
increase -- it's one of the largest increases in history. It's also the number that allows
the President to keep his promise to undo the military sequester. The topline
nondefense number will be $462 billion. That's a $54-billion savings. It's the largestproposed reduction since the early years of the Reagan administration.
The reductions in nondefense spending follow the same model -- it's the President
keeping his promises and doing exactly what he said he was going to do. It reduces
money that we give to other nations, it reduces duplicative programs, and it eliminates
programs that simply don't work.
The bottom line is this: The President is going to protect the country and do so in
exactly the same way that every American family has had to do over the last couple
years, and that's prioritize spending.
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The schedule from here -- these numbers will go out to the agencies today in a process
that we describe as passback. Review from agencies are due back to OMB over the
course of the next couple days, and we'll spend the next week or so working on a final
budget blueprint. We expect to have that number to Congress by March 16th. That
puts us on schedule for a full budget -- including all the things I mentioned, this one
does not include -- with all the larger policy issues in the first part of May.
So with that, I'll take a couple questions.
Yes, sir.
Q Mr. Director, in order to get to your topline on the rest of the nondiscretionary -or rest of the discretionary budget, if you're not going to touch veterans benefits, you
need to slice about 12 percent off of the rest of government. Can't you do that without
affecting the services the government provides for -DIRECTOR MULVANEY: And that's part of what this process is this week. The
numbers go out, and the numbers -- each agency will get its topline number along with
recommendations from OMB as to how we think they can hit that number. And they
may come back to us and say, yeah, we think that's a good way to reach that number,
or they may come back to us with other suggestions. That's what this process is.
I think it's fairly unusual for us to be coming to you this early in the process, but we
wanted to let everybody know exactly where we were.
Q But we're not talking about 2 or 3 percent -- we're talking about double-digit
reductions, and that's a lot.
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: There's going to be a lot of programs that -- again, you
can expect to see exactly what the President said he was going to do. Foreign aid, for
example -- the President said we're going to spend less money overseas and spend
more of it here. That's going to be reflected in the number we send to the State
Department.
Q Thank you very much. One quick follow on foreign aid. That accounts for less
than 1 percent of overall spending. And I just spoke with an analyst who said even if
you zero that out, it wouldn't pay for one year of the budget increases that are being
proposed right now. So how do you square that amount? So why not tackle
entitlements, which are the biggest driver, especially when a lot of Republicans over
the years have said that they need to be taxed?
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DIRECTOR MULVANEY: Sure. On your foreign aid, it's the same answer I just
gave, which is, yes, it's a fairly part of the discretionary budget, but it's still consistent
with what the President said. When you see these reductions, you'll be able to tie it
back to a speech the President gave or something the President has said previously.
He's simply going to -- we are taking his words and turning them into policies and
dollars. So we will be spending less overseas and spending more back home. I forgot
your second question.
Q On entitlements, why not address entitlements, which is the biggest driver of
spending?
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: It's very unusual to -- this is a budget blueprint -- what
some folks used to call a skinny budget -- and it would not be at all unusual for larger
policy decisions, including tax reform, revenue projections not to be included in this
budget. That will come in -Q
Down the line?
Q
Sir --
Q Hold on. So down the line, could we see some type of budget that deals with
entitlements?
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: The full budget will contain the entire spectrum of the
President's proposed policy changes.
Q Director, on rebuilding the military, can you talk a little bit about more of the
breakdown of that? Can you go into a little bit more detail?
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: No, I can't -- because, again, where we are in this process
is that the numbers going to the DOD today and over the course of the next 10 days to
two weeks, we'll be coming up with those types of details.
I've got time for one more.
Q Will you be asking the military -- you're going to increase the military budget, but
are you going to at least ask the people in the Defense Department to take a look at
their budget and say, hey, where can we at least cut or at least look and make sure that
we're spending the right amount of money? Is part of that is going to be part of the
process?
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DIRECTOR MULVANEY: Well, absolutely. That's part of what Secretary Mattis
and I have already talked. He's interested in driving more efficiencies into the Defense
Department. OMB is also going to be involved with him on the procurement process.
All of that will be incorporated in our larger budget in May.
Q So it's not just like a blanket -- "Here, we're going to throw money at you, do what
you want"?
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: No, sir. No, sir.
Last one.
Q Does this account for spending for the President's wall, either in the $30 billion
we've heard you're going to request for this year or the $54 billion increase? Does that
include money for the wall, how to pay for the wall?
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: It would be more likely -- excuse me, a little bit of both.
We do expect to include some money in a future supplemental for 2017 for the wall,
and a 2018 budget will also contain some longer-term dollars for that.
Q
So it will be split up between the two.
DIRECTOR MULVANEY: I believe that to be the case.
Thank you all very much.
MR. SPICER: Thank you, Director.
So let me get back to -- I'll be right there in a second, April.
This morning, the President dropped by the National Governors Association meeting,
where 49 governors from both states and territories joined Cabinet members and
senior White House staff to discuss where they can work together to rebuild the
country and restart the economy.
While at the meeting, the President delivered a statement on his forthcoming budget
proposal, which he'll submit March 16th, as you just heard the Director mention. The
President's budget will, first and foremost, keep Americans safe. That means investing
in both our nation's physical and financial security. We will rebuild the nation's
military. An increase in defense spending, including increased funding for our
veterans and our border, will be matched by equal reductions in nondefense programs.
The savings in our budget will come from looking at outdated and duplicative
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programs. The reductions spending will be sensible and rational, but they will also be
tough.
With our nation's debt spiraling out of control, we simply must take a look at the way
we're spending taxpayers' dollars. Families across the country are being forced to
make difficult choices, because for too long the federal government has not treated
their money with the respect they deserve. The national debt exploded under the last
administration from $10.6 billion [trillion] on January 20th, 2009 to $19.9 trillion the
day before -- sorry, those are both trillions -- the day before the President's -- President
Trump's inaugural. Every child born in America this year will inherit an average of
over $60,000 in debt. And that, frankly, is too much.
Our budget will restore respect for taxpayers' dollars while funding all the necessary
programs to keep our country safe and prospering. This meeting with the governors
was a continuation of a weekend of engagement and discussion between the governors
and the administration. The President and the First Lady welcomed the governors last
night to the White House for the Annual Governors Ball. And yesterday, the Vice
President had a very productive meeting with several governors.
The administration is proud to be working with the governors on rebuilding our
nation's infrastructure, reforming our healthcare system, and putting Americans back
to work. I know that Obamacare, in particular, was put into place without a lot of
input from governors. We're committed to consulting and including them on this and
so many other subjects as we solve the nation's biggest issues together.
Later this morning, the President had a listening session with some of our country's
leading healthcare insurance companies. Interestingly, on yesterday's ABC "This
Week," Minority Leader Pelosi actually laid out a great outline of how to judge
Obamacare's success based on what it was supposed to achieve. She said, "It had three
goals: One, to lower the cost, the other to expand benefits, and the third to improve
and increase access."
So let's go through her criteria. Lowering costs: While this year all four tiers of
Obamacare insurance plans are facing double-digit increases in average premiums.
Just to take a look at one set of premiums, for standard silver plans in the states, 63
percent increase in Tennessee, 69 percent increase in Oklahoma, and a staggering 116
percent increase in Arizona.
On expanding benefits: In reality, the new law’s mandates have led to max
cancellations of coverage, soaring out-of-pocket costs, and declining enrollment
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figures. Millions are choosing to pay a tax over buying the government-mandate
insurance.
Increased access: With insurance fleeing the marketplace, Americans are facing a
dwindling number of insurance choices with 17 percent of Americans left with only
one insurer option available in their exchange. Insurers will be indispensable partners
in the transition period out of Obamacare into the Patients First plan the President will
be working with Congress to put in its place. The President’s plan will encourage
innovation, modernize our healthcare system, and provide immediate relief, and ensure
access to quality, truly affordable care.
This afternoon, the President had lunch with Vice President Pence and Ambassador
Haley. Afterwards, he’s having a meeting with Speaker Ryan and Majority Leader
McConnell. And then following that, he’s going to be meeting with Secretary of State
Tillerson. The Secretary is coming off a very successful trip to Mexico that -- he was
joined by Secretary of Homeland Security Kelly. I’m sure the President is looking
forward to discussing that trip with the Secretary.
Also this afternoon, the Vice President will be speaking to an extraordinary group of
60 presidents of Historically Black Colleges and Universities. There will be a pool
spray at the top of the event, and the Vice President’s office will release his remarks
and photos following the event. We can also expect a meeting with the President with
them as well.
This evening, the President will have dinner with regional press affiliates that are
going to be in town for the joint session of Congress. While it’s tradition for
representatives from the networks to meet with the President before his joint address,
this is the first time, to my knowledge at least, that the opportunity has been expanded
to include representation from 18 regional outlets from around the country.
Tomorrow, the President will also have the traditional lunch with the network anchors.
Beyond the so-called "big five" networks, we’ve also opened it up and invited outlets
including Telemundo, Univision, CBN, EWTN, OANN, PBS, C-SPAN, and TV1.
Tonight, the President looks forward to seeing his nominee for the Secretary of
Commerce, Wilbur Ross, confirmed by the Senate. Secretary-designate Ross has been
an important champion for U.S.-struggling industries in the private sectors. And
pending his confirmation this evening, he’ll now do in the same post on behalf of the
American people what he has done in private sector. Assuming everything goes
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according to the plan in the Senate tonight, we expect to have his swearing-in
tomorrow here at the White House.
Also tomorrow, the President will deliver his first address to both houses of Congress.
In his speech, the President will lay out an optimistic vision for the country, crossing
traditional lines of party, race, socioeconomic status. As I said before, the theme will
be the renewal of the American spirit. He will invite Americans of all backgrounds to
come together in the service of a stronger and brighter future for our nation.
In addition to laying out the concrete steps the President has already taken to make the
American Dream possible for all of our people, he will talk about the bold agenda -he wants to work with Congress. This includes tax and regulatory reform to provide
relief to hardworking Americans and their businesses, making the workplace better for
working parents, ensuring the families who have suffered under Obamacare’s
skyrocketing rates see it replaced with a patient-centered alternative, making sure
every child in America has access to a good education, a rebuilding of our military and
fulfilling of our commitments to veterans to whom we obviously owe a great deal of
gratitude.
You can expect to see a speech grounded firmly in solving real problems for every
American -- how can we make sure that every American who needs a better job get
one, how can we get kids who are trapped in failing schools into better ones, how we
can keep gangs and drug violence out of our neighborhoods and communities. The
President will address the Americans who have been waiting for help from their
leaders for too long, and let them know that help is finally on the way.
With respect to the speech, we will be having a background briefing sometime this
evening here in the briefing room. We will provide additional details later in the
afternoon.
As you might already know, the Department of Defense presented its preliminary plan
to the White House today to defeat ISIS. This plan has been delivered by Secretary
Mattis, who is currently briefing the principals on the option presented today in
seeking their input and feedback.
Finally, I wanted to note the President continues to be deeply disappointed and
concerned by the reports of further vandalism at Jewish community -- Jewish
cemeteries, rather. The cowardly destruction in Philadelphia this weekend comes on
top of similar accounts from Missouri and threats made to Jewish community centers
around the country. The President continues to condemn these and any other form of
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anti-Semitic and hateful acts in the strongest terms. From our country’s founding,
we’ve been dedicated to protecting the freedom of our citizens' rights to worship. No
one in America should feel afraid to follow the religion of their choosing freely and
openly. The President is dedicated to preserving this originating principle of our
nation.
And while we’re at it, I don’t want to get ahead of the law enforcement, but I was
asked the other day about the story in Kansas -- the shooting in Kansas. And while the
story is evolving, early reports out of Kansas are equally disturbing.
So with that, I’ll be glad to take your questions. Jon.
Q Sean, there’s a report this morning that you reached out directly to CIA Director
Pompeo. Did you directly contact Director Pompeo and ask him to knock down the
New York Times story on the Russia connection?
MR. SPICER: Thanks, Jon. Let me kind of, if I may, walk through the entire
timeline. I think it’s important.
As I mentioned I think a week ago, the New York Times published a story about what
they called “contacts” between members of the Trump campaign and Russian officials.
The FBI deputy director was at a meeting here at the White House that morning.
After the meeting concluded, he asked the chief of staff to stand back a second, he
wanted to tell him that the report in the New York Times was “BS.” For viewers at
home, I think you can pretty much figure what that means, but I’ll leave it at that.
At that time, the chief of staff said, thank you for sharing that with me, can we let
other people know that the story is not accurate. Throughout the day, they went back
and forth to see what they thought was appropriate. Finally, came to the conclusion
that they did not want to get in the process of knocking down every story that they had
issues with.
They then -- we then were informed that other people had come to the same
conclusions, including -- at that time, Chairman Devin Nunes had told us, hey, I’ve
been knocking this down, telling reporters. We shared a number with him of a
reporter that had contacted us. And again, when the reporters contact us and we said,
no, that’s not -- to the best of our knowledge that’s not true, they were asking us, can
you point to -anybody else that can substantiate this? And I think we did a good job of
saying, sure, we will share with reporters other people who have come to the same
conclusion.
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So I won't go into the specifics. I will say that I think we did our job very effectively
by making sure that reporters who had had questions about the accuracy and the
claims made in The New York Times, that we were pointing them to subject-matter
experts who understood whether or not that story was accurate or not. And I think just
to continue to be very, very clear on this -- it was about the accuracy of the reporting
and the claims that were made in there, plain and simple -- about whether or not a
story that appeared in The New York Times was accurate. And individual after
individual continued to say that, as far as they knew, they weren’t.
I think most of you probably saw Chairman Nunes's comments this morning. He was
very clear, number one, that he reached out to us to say, I've been telling people,
reporters, that these allegations and descriptions in The New York Times are not
accurate. And then we shared that information with him. But he came to us to share
that he equally had that issue brought up to him, he was briefed and saw "no evidence"
that the story was accurate.
So the answer is, we have continued to give reporters information and sources that
went to the accuracy, or lack thereof, of a report that was in a newspaper. And I think
Chairman Nunes also equally said it's interesting how we literally were engaging with
the press, saying, if you have a question about the sourcing on this -- obviously, when
brought to our attention, we said, it's not accurate as we know, but then most of you
and your colleagues who had inquired would say, well, that's great, I'm sure you're
saying this, but who else can corroborate this? So our job was to continue to -- when
informed -- share sources who had equally come to the same conclusion that the Times
story was not accurate.
Q You don’t think there's something strange about -- something odd about the White
House Press Secretary getting the CIA director on the phone to knock down a story
about an investigation?
MR. SPICER: No, no, but see, respectfully, you're using words like "knock down."
There was a story in a newspaper -Q
Was it disputed?
MR. SPICER: Hold on. No, no -- there was reporters coming to us saying, there is a
story out there, what's your take on it? And our answer was, we don’t believe it's
accurate, we don’t* [do] believe it's false. But obviously that's our take on it. And
reporters were saying to us, well, is there anybody that you can point to to substantiate
this claim?
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Now, remember, this all started with the FBI coming to us, bringing to our attention,
saying that the story in the Times was not accurate -- in fact, it was BS -- and all we
did was simply say, that's great, could you tell other reporters the same thing you're
telling us? And I would think that other reporters, yourself included, would think that
that would be a helpful thing to get the story straight. All we sought to do was to
actually get an accurate report out. And again, I think Chairman Nunes this morning,
over and over and over and over again, made it very clear that no evidence that has
been brought to his attention suggests that that reporting was accurate.
So, respectfully, I think it's interesting that I'm being asked what's appropriate when
what we're doing is actually urging reporters to engage with subject-matter experts
who can corroborate whether or not something is accurate or not.
Q Should there be a special prosecutor? Darrell Issa has called for a special
prosecutor to look into this.
MR. SPICER: And I guess my question would be, a special prosecutor for what?
Q
To look into the whole Russia connection, the whole Russia influencing --
MR. SPICER: And here's my -- right. And I guess my -Q I mean, he was part of the campaign, so -- I mean, Sessions was part of the
campaign, the Attorney General.
MR. SPICER: I understand. But here's my question, Jonathan: We have now for six
months heard story after story come out about unnamed sources say the same thing
over and over again, and nothing has come of it, right? We've heard the same people,
the same anecdotes, and we've heard reports over and over again. And as Chairman
Nunes made very clear today, he has seen nothing that corroborates that. So at what
point -- you got to ask yourself, what are you investigating?
Q
Well, Russian interference -- I mean, beyond the context.
MR. SPICER: No, and I think that both the House and the Senate have looked at it.
You know as well as I do that the intelligence community has looked at it as well.
There's a big difference. I think that Russia's involvement in activity has been
investigated up and down. So the question becomes at some point, if there's nothing to
further investigate, what are you asking people to investigate?
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I mean, Chairman Nunes spoke very clearly today when asked over and over and over
again about all of this, and said that he has seen nothing that leads him to believe that
there's there. The President has spoken forcefully time and time again that he has no
interests in Russia, he hasn’t talked to people in Russia in years, and yet you keep
asking -- and when I say "you," collectively -- to try to find something that seemingly,
at least the reporting that I'm seeing in different organizations, suggests that there's
nothing new that's being reported. It's the same stuff over and over again that we've
heard for literally six months. And so the question becomes at some point, what do
you need to further investigate if there is nothing that has come out?
Q Can you not categorically deny there were no contacts between the Russians and
anybody on the campaign?
MR. SPICER: I can't deny -- I can't -- I guess my question is -Q
That's what the investigation would look at.
MR. SPICER: Right. And I guess my point is, is that you've had the intelligence
community look at Russia's involvement in the election. You had the House and
Senate both do the same. And so what I'm trying to ascertain is that at what point -how many people have to say that there's nothing there before you realize there's
nothing there? I can't say unequivocally -- all I'm saying is, the people who have done
the investigating about Russia overall and its activities in the United States,
specifically now with respect to our election, haven’t provided anything that leads me
to believe or should lead you to believe -- and I continue to see reports coming from -there were media sources saying when they checked in with law enforcement, or
intelligence community sources, there's nothing more than has been previously
reported over and over again.
So, at some point, you do have to ask yourself, what are you actually looking for?
How many times do you have to come to the same conclusion before you take the
answer? And that's where I -- Mara.
Q Just to be clear, did you -- just to follow up on that, did you personally reach out
to Pompeo?
MR. SPICER: I'm not going to discuss what we did internally. I'm just going to say
that when we shared -- we did our job about making sure that when people had -reporters had questions, we let them know what subject-matter experts were available
to discuss the accuracy of the newspaper story.
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Mara.
Q Yeah, I'm sure people will come back to this, but I actually have a budget
question, which is: During the campaign, the President said he was not going to touch
Medicare or Social Security. His Treasury Secretary repeated that. It sounded like the
OMB Director was leaving that as an open question, TBD. I'm just wondering, what's
the state of the promise? That we won't touch it for current retirees -MR. SPICER: What the OMB Director made clear is how it works. The budget is
dealing with the topline discretionary numbers. Policy decisions are not part of the
budget. That was what he was being asked and what he -- so I just want to be clear in
terms of what it was. And again, I think -Q
-- the state of the promise. In other words what is the promise.
MR. SPICER: Right. And I think the state of the promise is clear. And I think, as
you point out, he had made the promise, he stands by the promise. The Treasury
Secretary -Q But what is the promise? Current retirees? People near retirement? Anybody
paying into -MR. SPICER: I will follow up specifically on that. But I think the President has
made very clear that it's not his intent to do -- he wants to focus on the discretionary
side; that entitlement reform is not -- that, with respect to those programs that he
mentioned, he stands by his word.
Fred.
Q I wanted to ask a couple issues. An executive order on religious freedom had
previously been in the works. Will that still come? And if it does, will it extend
beyond religious freedom?
MR. SPICER: I'm sorry, Fred, what?
Q
Will it extend beyond the Johnson Amendment?
MR. SPICER: I think we've discussed executive orders in the past, and for the most
part we're not going to get into discussing what may or may not come until we're ready
to announce it. So I'm sure as we move forward we'll have something.
Olivier.
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Thanks, Sean.
Q I'm sorry, just one more. The issue of types of reforms. Will there be -- how
committed is the administration to a border adjustment tax? And is there any concern
that there won't be enough conservative support for that; that it could block any
meaningful tax reform long-term?
MR. SPICER: Well, I'm not going to get into the specifics of tax reform today. The
President has made clear that we'll have an outline of the plan very soon. But what I
will say is that I think he has talked about the concerns that he has with current
regulatory and tax policy that benefit people from moving out of the country and
shipping jobs -- or products back in while shedding American workers. He will
continue to fight for policies that promote manufacturing and job creation in the
United States, and supports American workers.
So I don’t want to get ahead of the exact nature of the policy. He has been seeking a
lot of input. As I mentioned earlier, he's going to talk today with Speaker Ryan and
Senator McConnell. I know that both the joint session, the status of repeal and
replace, and I'm sure some discussion of tax reform will probably come up. But
there's a lot -- we're continuing to move forward and work with them.
Olivier.
Q
Thanks. A couple on the ISIS strategy. Can you just get to the timetable from
now, now that you received it -- what happens? And there's a report that you're asking
for $30 billion in emergency defense spending on top of the $54 [billion] in the
budget. Is that true? Does that cover the new ISIS strategy? Can you explain what's
different between the two?
MR. SPICER: Thank you. Right now, literally, that principals meeting -- or
principals meeting that I mentioned at the beginning is happening as we speak. So
Secretary Mattis was coming over to brief the principals as far as the ISIS plan. And
again, part of it was to make sure that he fully discusses the recommendations that he's
making and seek the input and feedback of the other principals downstairs. That can
help guide where we go from here, how we go. With respect to the funding, I think
Director Mulvaney noted that there will be a supplemental at some point. Right now
the focus is on the budget, and then we'll go from there.
John Gizzi.
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Q Thank you, Sean. Two brief questions. First, I read your statement at the
Thursday briefing to Governor Malloy of Connecticut during the NGA meeting. And
he responded -- and I quote -- "Sean didn’t read a thing that I said." He said that he -in Connecticut, they are already working to get criminals who are in the country
illegally out. His objection was to going into warming centers or schools where
officials might frighten children. Your response to the Governor on that?
MR. SPICER: Well, again, I was asked specifically what his stance -- what the
comments were with respect to sanctuary cities. And again, I would reiterate, with all
due respect to the Governor, I'm not here to pick a fight with the Governor. I enjoyed
my time going to school in the state of Connecticut. I have a kind affection of the
Nutmeg State. But the reality is, I think that there's a difference. Whether or not what
he wants to do is state funds, maybe -- without knowing the exact nature of how he's
funding, what he's funding, it's difficult. The question I was asked at the time was on
how we would be handling it. And I think the answer, whether it's Connecticut or
California, is that the President's executive order and the President's commitment is to
make sure that tax dollars are not used to support programs that are helping people
who are not in the country legally and who are not citizens entitled to them.
Q
One more question, Sean.
MR. SPICER: Okay. Starting early. (Laughter.)
Q For 58 years, when Presidents have gone to Rome, they've always met the Pope,
going back to when President Eisenhower met Pope John XXIII. Now, one year ago
this week, candidate Trump had a disagreement with this Pope and an exchange of
words. When he goes to Rome in May for his first European trip, will he meet with
this Pope?
MR. SPICER: That's a great question. Obviously, I would be a huge fan of that. But
I'm not going to -- I don’t think we're at that place in the planning process to make an
announcement on any visits with the Pope.
Blake.
Q Sean, thank you. Two budget questions, if you don’t mind. Mr. Mulvaney, I
believe, just said that what the administration plans on putting forward doesn’t add to
the current deficit projection, which the CBO says is about $560 billion. But he didn't
say that it would significantly draw from that either. So my first question is, is the
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administration comfortable putting something forward that might rack up deficits of
potentially hundreds of billions of dollars?
MR. SPICER: Well, I think -- I'm trying to understand the question a little, if you can
help me with this. Because he -Q
He said it wasn’t going to add to it.
MR. SPICER: Right.
Q So my question is, he didn't necessarily say it was going to cut from it, either. If it
doesn't cut from it, potentially it could be hundreds of billions in deficit. And I'm
curious -MR. SPICER: Right, no, but I think -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I mean, he basically
made it very clear it doesn't add to the projected baseline deficit. So that continues to
be the goal. And I think as we continue to work through this process, the passback,
you know, it can work both ways. We could identify further savings and reductions
through working with the agencies and departments, but we're going to make sure that
the topline number we maintain is as close to that as possible.
And as we go through this -- I mean, this is the beginning of the process as the director
noted. We send the number to the department or the agency, give them some ideas,
how we came up with this, and then they come back to us and either justify why a
particular program or office, or what have you, needs to stay in existence or why
maybe not the reduction that is offered. But it's a back-and-forth process that will
occur over the next few weeks. So to get ahead of it is the problem.
Q Let me ask you what Nancy Pelosi -- to just get a quick reaction to Nancy Pelosi.
She put out a statement and said the following: "Five weeks into his administration,
President Trump has not introduced a single jobs bill." Your reaction to that would be
what?
MR. SPICER: He's created a lot of jobs. I think that's -- he's continuing to work with
Congress on both repealing and replacing Obamacare, tax reform. And,
fundamentally, both of those two items alone I think can help spur a lot of economic
growth. The meetings that we've had with the CEOs, the health insurers -- there are so
many things that are both job-killing and that can be done to help promote a better
regulatory and tax climate that lead to job creation.
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I think that's one of the biggest problems right now is that people in Washington aren't
necessarily talking to job creators and saying, what is the impediment that you have to
hiring more American workers? What are the impediments that you have to
manufacturing more, to building here?
The meetings and the actions that the President has taken on both regulatory and other
matters have helped spur job creation. You've heard these companies come in over
and over again -- the automakers, airlines, Sprint -- I mean, the list goes on and on and
on of people saying to the President, because of your agenda, because of your vision,
we're willing to commit to hiring additional people to manufacturing more. That's
how jobs are created -- it's not through the government. And too often, it's the
government regulations that stifle and prevent job creation. And I think the President,
as a businessman, fully appreciates and understands how this works and what some of
those impediments do to creating jobs and to growing the economy.
And so I would just say that you haven't seen anything yet. It's going to continue to be
the case.
Trey.
Q Thanks, Sean. Is there concern in the administration that a large-scale military
buildup will appear threatening to other countries around the world and lead to some
sort of arms race with other countries?
MR. SPICER: No, I think when you look at the state of some of the infrastructure in
our military, whether it's the age of our ships or our planes or some of the other
hardware that exists, you recognize that we need to rebuild a lot of these things. The
size of our Navy has gone down significantly. And there are new needs and new -and when you look at the commitment that you have to make not just in one year but
in several years, for a lot of these programs -- ships and tanks, even weapons systems
-- they don't get built in a month or a day. You have to make a commitment early on
to make the investment because of the time that it takes to procure them, to build them,
the research and development that goes into it.
And so I would just suggest to you that this is the first step in making sure we make
the commitment to a military that through, especially through the sequester the last
few years, has not gotten the funding it needs to get off life support. There are a lot of
things that are being taken care of for the military where they're just continuing to -they're not putting the systems and the projects in place to allow the military to keep
up with the times, and that's a problem.
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Major.
Q Sean, one investigation question and one budget question. As you may be aware,
Bill Owens, the father of William "Ryan" Owens, gave an interview with the Miami
Herald over the weekend and he said, "The government owes my son an
investigation." On behalf of the President of the United States, is the President open to
an investigation to the raid in Yemen? And the father of Ryan Owens called that a
"stupid" mission. Is there something that you'd like to communicate to him about that
mission that might persuade him otherwise?
MR. SPICER: Yeah, thank you. That's multi-part, so let me kind of walk through it
slowly.
First of all, I can't possibly imagine what he's going through in terms of the loss of his
son. I can tell him that on behalf of the President, his son died a hero and the
information that he was able to help obtain through that raid, as I've said before, is
going to safe American lives. It's going to protect our country more.
So he made a sacrifice to this country. He was on his 12th deployment. And I know
that his wife, when she spoke to the President, knows that he did this because he loved
it, he cared about our nation. And the mission was successful in helping prevent a
future attack or attacks on this nation. It obtained a lot of information that will help us
keep safe.
With respect to his request, it is standard operating procedure for the Department of
Defense to undergo what they call a 15-6 review. That review, in this case, is threepronged. Because there was a fatality and a loss of life, there's that. Because there
were civilians involved, that's another. And then third is because there was hardware
-- a helicopter that was damaged. That is a separate. So, in fact, there will be three
reviews done by the Department of Defense because of the nature of this.
But, again, I can't stress enough that on behalf of the President, on behalf of this
nation, we express our condolences, extend our prayers to him during this time.
Q As you said, that is standard procedure. Is there anything the President is
particularly curious about with this mission, in that it was brought to him, he
authorized it quickly? Does he believe in the main it was carried out well and there's
nothing that he's particularly curious about in the way either the helicopter was
damaged, fatality, the civilian casualties -- anything of the like?
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MR. SPICER: Well, number one, I've walked through the timetable previously in
terms of how long this had been planned for, dating well back into the previous
administration. And as you know, their recommendation at the time was to wait for a
moonless night. That night wasn't going to occur during President Obama's
administration. And so when General Mattis got into the Department of Defense, he
was briefed up on the status of the thing, made aware of when the next time was go.
We went through the process to ensure that we continued to believe that the mission -the way it was going to be conducted and the results of the mission would be worthy
of action.
The conclusion continued to be, as it was prior, that we should move forward. As I
mentioned before, I think you can't ever say that, when there's most importantly loss of
life and people injured, that it's 100 percent successful. But I think when you look at
what the stated goal of that mission was -- it was an information- and intelligencegathering mission. And it achieved its objectives.
So, again, I would express our thoughts and our prayers and our condolences to all of
the people in Chief Owens's family and his friends, his shipmates. But it's something
that, as a SEAL and as somebody who deployed 12 times, he knew that this was part
of the job and he knew what he was doing. And so we're very comfortable with how
the mission was executed, and we'll let the Department of Defense go through that
review process and then see where that leads us.
But I think to get ahead of the three separate reviews that are being done by the
Department of Defense would be probably a little irresponsible at this time.
Q
Sean --
MR. SPICER: Major gets two, too.
Q Just real quick on the budget. As you're aware, to undo the defense sequester, you
have to get 60 votes in the Senate because you have a separate domestic sequester
number and defense. Are you confident with these numbers and with this kind of
heavy discretionary spending cut proposed, you can get the 60 votes to change the
law? Because without that change in law, the proposal is just that -- it doesn't become
operational.
MR. SPICER: I think that when it comes to our nation's security, specifically our
nation's military, I don't think that it's a partisan issue. I think that senators from
across the country -- whether you're talking about Florida or whether you've got an
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Army installation or a Navy base, you understand the state of repair that many of our
planes, ships and other hardware is in. And I think that there is a bipartisan
commitment to give the military and its members the equipment and the tools it needs
to succeed and protect this country. So I do feel confident.
April.
Q Sean, I have a couple of budgetary questions for you. One, at the press
conference, President Trump talked about the fix for inner cities. What is the
investment in this budget when it comes to a fix for inner cities?
MR. SPICER: It's a good try. I think the Director was very clear -Q
That's one --
MR. SPICER: I mean, part of the process today was to start that passback process that
he talked about, where we're going to the various departments, whether it's HUD or
DOT, and giving them that topline number and then hearing back. So I don't want to
get into a specific number with you before we get too far down the process. I think
that's a conversation that we're going to have with the agencies and then we will have
subsequently with Congress when they start drafting their resolutions.
Q Okay, a follow-up on this, but I do have a question on HBCUs. See, he talked
about healthcare. He talked about education and he talked about crime. He needs to
talk about Chicago and law enforcement. So you don't have any kind of budgetary
numbers when it comes to it? And healthcare is a piece that is one of the line items for
this budget.
MR. SPICER: That's right. And I'm not saying that we don't have numbers. I'm
saying that we're not giving them out. That's a big difference.
Q
(Inaudible.)
MR. SPICER: I know. (Laughter.) You're going to do a good job trying. (Laughter.)
But as the Director noted on this, that they have come up with topline numbers based
on their going through each of these agencies’ budget, and saying, hey, there’s a
duplicative program here. In some cases, maybe they give them more, maybe they
give them less. Part of it is to begin that conversation, that process, with the
departments and agencies to figure out what those investments are. Maybe it’s
repurposing existing funds in a different way.
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So it’s not necessarily a zero-sum game. There is a way that a department can
reallocate money to a program that might end up benefitting because there is a
duplicative or out-of-date program or office that that savings could be applied to
something. But I don’t want to get ahead of the process right now, only to say that we
are at the very beginning of it.
Q
And one on HBCUs.
MR. SPICER: Yes.
Q The President is going to see the 80-plus presence of HBCUs with the Vice
President today. Some of them are very concerned as to what this executive order
looks like, and they are waiting to hear the commitment before they say, "I’m all in."
What is the commitment that this President is trying to make when it comes to
HBCUs to ensure, I guess, their future, or deal with funding for research projects, what
have you, or moving it out of the Department of Education to the purview of the White
House? What is the commitment that he’s going to give to them?
MR. SPICER: So, look, I don’t generally speak about executive orders until they’re
finalized. I will just say that one of the things that I think there’s commitment from
this White House to do is to look at the various resources throughout the federal
government that support HBCUs.
So, for example, the Department of Defense has ROTC and NROTC programs. Are
they being properly -- is that funding being properly executed and spent. There’s
programs within each of the departments -- the Department of Education, the
Department of Housing and Urban Development -- that affect grants or programs or
direct funding that go to HBCUs for various different things, whether it’s construction
projects, or teaching programs, or mentorship programs. Whatever it is, they span
throughout the entire government.
And I think that what we are committed to doing is ensuring that there is a high level
of understanding and commitment, that goes straight to the President, of how we
harness those resource within the government, and make sure that they’re doing what
they’re supposed to be doing.
So it’s one thing to have them, right, spread throughout the different departments. It’s
another thing to make sure that there’s a direct pipeline to the President of the United
States that those programs are being executed in a way that’s benefitting the future of
HBCUs and the various projects and teaching that goes on there.
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Q And so what are you saying -- there’s going to be a piece that is going to basically
go throughout all the agencies to make sure that there is some kind of commitment to
HBCUs and contract of like, let's say engineering for some schools, or in research for
other schools?
MR. SPICER: Yeah, I would say -- I think I’m going to stick to waiting until we
announce it to get out a lot more.
Q
Is that today or tomorrow?
MR. SPICER: I anticipate it very soon. How is that? I want to give myself a little
wiggle room.
Phil Rucker.
Q Yeah, Sean, thanks. A budget-related question, but on infrastructure. The
President has repeatedly, including today, again, called for a major infrastructure plan
to the tune a trillion dollars -- roads, bridges, tunnels, you name it. Can you explain
where that money is going to come from, how it fits into the budget that's under
review right now, and what the timeline for that project would be?
MR. SPICER: So I think that would be part of a longer-term discussion that we’re
having with Congress. As you know, the President got in office 30-some-odd days
ago. The idea of getting a budget is -- you know, it’s commonly referred to as a
skinny budget -- is to get the government to continue to be funding and it will be
something that we’ll work with Congress.
I understand your point. The President continues to talk about the status -Q
-- a priority for him.
MR. SPICER: It is. Absolutely. But I think that we’ve got to make sure that it’s done
right and that we work with Congress. I think, as you correctly mention, there’s
obviously a funding mechanism to this. And we’ve already talked about things like
comprehensive tax reform that could add to that discussion.
And so I just -- I understand what you’re asking in terms of how this would be funded
and when it will be coming, and the pay-fors, but we’re working with Congress to
have that discussion. I think that comes probably outside of the budget discussion.
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Q And so how does he square that with the need to tighten the belt, which he also
talked about today -- we’ve been spending too much as a government and we need to
cut our spending?
MR. SPICER: Right, but I think -- but in the same manner that we’re presenting the
budget. So we’re talking about adding $54 million -- $54 trillion, rather -- a billion
dollars to -- thank you. Appreciate the help here. (Laughter.)
But we’re looking to add that to defense. And so what it means is that we have to look
through other programs to find reductions in savings. I think that same kind of
discussion would happen with respect to infrastructure, not necessarily the savings
piece, but the funding piece; that there’s several ways -- and I know that there’s a lot
of discussion, private-public partnerships that he is started to have a discussion with in
terms of the funding mechanism.
And so all I’m trying to get at is that there are various ways to do this funding without
just relying on the American taxpayer in terms of additional taxes. There are spending
reductions, there are other funding mechanisms, and I think, in due course, we will get
around to that discussion.
Q And just related to that, he mentioned in his remarks about infrastructure today
that as he drives through the Queens-Midtown tunnel and the Lincoln tunnel, he
worries about ceiling tiles falling. Is there a specific incident he was talking about
where people have been injured, or is that just a fear of his?
MR. SPICER: I don’t know. I’ll ask. (Laughter.) But I’m sure Secret Service will
take care of the -- alleviating the medium concerns.
Hold on. Alexis.
Q Sean, I have two questions. First, one on healthcare. Because the OMB director
was signaling that the complete budget would be made ready early May, and the
President today described how complicated he had discovered that the healthcare
repeal and replace has become, can you describe when it is that the President would
present his framework for an overhaul of healthcare? Is it going to be included in the
budget so we would see it before May?
MR. SPICER: I don’t think you’re going to see it in the budget, no. That’s not the
appropriate vehicle for it. I think I’ve mentioned it before. I think you would drive -or at least the leading option, before I get locked into something, is to add Obamacare
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to the FY17 budget process and put it through reconciliation. So that would happen
outside of the current budget structure.
But I think he has also been very clear that he wants this outline within a matter of
weeks, and that we continue to have these discussions with House and Senate
leadership, with Ways and Means, and Energy and Commerce, and then similar on
Senate finance on the Senate side.
So when he talks to Speaker Ryan and Leader McConnell today, I’m sure that
conversation will continue.
Q Just to follow up on healthcare, because not every ingredient in the Affordable
Care Act can be handled in reconciliation. That’s why I was asking about the
elements of it that we see in the budget.
MR. SPICER: That’s right.
Q
So we will see some of those?
MR. SPICER: Well, there’s several pieces of Obamacare. Some can be done by
executive order, some get done with 50 votes, some have to be done specifically in
reconciliation. I think counter to Major’s point on a previous question, that there are
certain things that have to be done in certain ways legislatively, and to create a
comprehensive and holistic approach to both repealing it and replacing it. And we’re
aware of that. We’re working with the House and the Senate to make that happen.
Q
And my second topic.
MR. SPICER: Of course.
Q All right. The immigration executive order, the travel ban -- is the President
going to address the American people and Congress in his speech tomorrow night and
specifically describe and defend the immigration ban? And when will we see the
revised executive order?
MR. SPICER: So we’re not going to -- I would not anticipate the speech being a
defense of legislation and executive orders. I don’t think many previous Presidents
have gotten through and used that as a legislative walkthrough.
But you will hear about his commitment to immigration and his desire for border
security, and what it means not just about keeping the nation safe, but what impact it’s
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having on the economy. So you will hear a lot about immigration tomorrow night, and
he will talk about why it matters and the goal that we have and why we should come
together on areas like this.
Q
Can I follow up on that, Sean?
MR. SPICER: Hold on. Katelyn.
Q
Where’s the next order?
MR. SPICER: Oh, I’m sorry. The next order I think we should have it out probably
middle of this week. Looking towards the middle of the week. And we’ll have further
updates as we get through the schedule. I think obviously our priority right now today
was the really get the budget process kicked off, and then continue to prepare for the
joint session.
Katelyn.
Q
Thank you.
Q
Sean, can I follow on that?
MR. SPICER: You will in a second.
Q
An internal report in 2015 identified $125 billion in wasteful Pentagon spending.
So how can you justify adding $54 billion to the defense budget? Is that going to go
to hiring soldiers or bureaucrats or contractors? And is the President concerned with
wasteful spending at the DOD?
MR. SPICER: Of course he’s concerned. He’s concerned with wasteful spending
throughout the government. But I think there’s also a big difference between rooting
out waste and fraud in various programs and offices, and understanding that when
you’re talking about adding to the fleet or increasing airplane costs, that that can’t be
driven just through those. And the commitment that you have to make to purchase
some of those very-needed upgrades to our infrastructure and to our arsenal and to
planes and ships doesn’t just come through that. Because even if you could start to
really identify, you really wouldn’t be able to make the financial commitment that
needs to be done to rebuild some of the ships and planes in particular that need a
substantial investment on the front end.
John.
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Q If I could just follow on Alexis’s question. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has
just denied your request to suspend proceedings in regard to the initial executive order.
That order came out just within the last few minutes. So do you plan to continue
defending your first executive order in court? And what’s the purpose of doing that as
opposed to simply rescinding it and then rendering that case moot?
MR. SPICER: Well, I haven’t been able to read my phone while this has happened.
So I -Q
That's why I read --
MR. SPICER: (Laughter.) Thank you, I appreciate it. So with all due respect, I
would ask that I be able to get back to you tomorrow on that after we consult with the
Counsel’s Office and go through the briefing and the -- excuse me, the reading of what
the court has said. But give me a little time, let me get off the podium -Q
I mean, the rescinding it question still stands, regardless of the --
MR. SPICER: I understand that, and I think that the President has made a
commitment right now to continue to defend what we did.
Q
For what reason?
MR. SPICER: Hold on. Because this is the strategy that -- he believes that we have
the authority vested in U.S. code. I’ve talked about this extensively in the past. And I
think that if you’ll allow me, once we get done with the briefing, I will follow up with
the Counsel’s Office.
Q But the point that some of us are trying to understand is, if you have a new
executive order that you believe addresses the concerns of the many courts who have
weighed in on this, why continue to defend an executive order that -MR. SPICER: Because he’s -- I mean, because we were right the first time. And I
think that -Q
Are you trying to prove a point?
MR. SPICER: Hold on -- no, but I think that it’s not a question of proving a point.
It’s that the manner in which it was done in the first place was what we believe and
continue to believe was the right way to address this problem.
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And while the second executive order attempts to address the court’s concerns that
they made, the goal is obviously to maintain the way that we did it the first time
because we believe that the law is very clear about giving the President the authority
that he needs to protect the country.
So just dropping that is not necessarily the most prudent thing. And I think part of it is
for us to recoup right now, figure out what the court has said, and then reassess the
strategy. But I don't want to get ahead, as you point out, you're reading it to me now -I would like the opportunity to maybe go read it and actually have a lawyer read it -since that won’t do very much.
Go ahead.
Q Sean, thank you. On anti-Semitism, that was a good, strong statement. Is there
anything that the federal government can do to protect Jewish institutions? Are there
any leads who is doing this? And also on sequester, when can sequester be lifted?
MR. SPICER: When can it be lifted?
Q
Yes.
MR. SPICER: I think we've got to go through the process to lift the sequester, and so
we’ll deal with that.
With respect to some of the activity that we've seen at Jewish cemeteries in particular
-- look, I think we have to work with law enforcement at a local and state level. I’ll
leave it to the Department of Justice to comment further on what additional steps can
be made. But I think -- as has been pointed out multiple times, I think one of the
things that we can do is speak from this podium, in particular, and other places to
make sure that every American understands what our values are, and that that kind of
behavior and activity is wrong and won’t be tolerated, and the highest levels of
government denounce it.
So I think it starts at that. And then I think there’s a law enforcement component that I
would ask you to touch base with.
Q
Sean, two on the budget.
MR. SPICER: Yes.
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Q I understand this is a blueprint. I understand the President has previously said he
doesn't want to touch entitlements. But why does he think it’s the right move to break
with years of Republican orthodoxy, House Speaker Paul Ryan, who have said that
any sensible long-term budget needs to include entitlement reform?
MR. SPICER: Look, I’m just going to -- I think the President understands the
commitment that was made to seniors in particular and that it's a sacred bond and a
trust.
And I think -- look, Mara asked this earlier -- I think let me get back to you on the
specifics. But I think he made a commitment to the American people. And one of the
things that I think the President continues to get high marks on is that regardless of
whether you voted for him or not, or you agree with his policies, he’s a man of his
word. And he has followed up on the promises that he made to the American people.
And I think that's important.
Now, again, I think that we will continue to work with Congress. But the President
understands that we have commitments that we've made on the entitlement side, in
particular, and especially on the senior side with respect to Social Security that need to
be maintained. And so he’s going to keep this word to the American people.
Q But if you talk to some economic analysts, they say Social Security, Medicare
won’t be there in a number of years if we don't address the fundamental problems.
MR. SPICER: And I think that -- right. And so for right now, I think the budget that
we're laying out deals on the discretionary side. You've heard the President’s
priorities and commitment, especially when it comes to protecting this country. And if
we have anything further, I’ll let you know.
Q
And one more -- Sean, one more. Is there an internal leak inquiry right now?
MR. SPICER: Not that I’m aware of.
Q Thank you very much, Sean. I have two questions on U.S.-China relationship, if I
may.
MR. SPICER: You may.
Q
Thank you.
MR. SPICER: Everyone else gets two.
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Q First of all, since President Trump took office, China sends it very first senior
official, State Counselor Yang Jiechi, to visit Washington, D.C. today. Will there will
be a meeting with in the White House, and what’s the White House’s expectation of
his visit?
MR. SPICER: So the State Counselor, and for those of you not schooled in the
Chinese government, is basically the equivalent of our NSA Director -- NSC Director,
correct?
Q
Yes.
MR. SPICER: So the Ambassador and the State Counselor came today. They had a
meeting with H.R. McMaster, Jared Kushner, and I think some others sat in on the
meeting. They had a delegation of six people here. After the meeting ended, I believe
the State Counselor was taken and had an opportunity to say hi to the President before
he left. This is an opportunity to begin that conversation and talk to them on shared
interests of national security.
Q
Sean --
MR. SPICER: Sorry, hold on. He gets one more. Everybody else did.
Q
Can I have a follow up?
MR. SPICER: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me just -- everybody else got two.
Q Yes, just this morning, President Trump mentioned about his pick for ambassador
to China, Governor -MR. SPICER: Branstad.
Q
Branstad. Governor Branstad apparently has a really positive view on China.
MR. SPICER: Yeah.
Q So how confident the President is on the Governor’s confirmation to get all the
support in the Senate?
MR. SPICER: Oh, I think he’ll receive tremendous support -- bipartisan support.
Governor Branstad has been -- is a true -- he has huge ties on both sides. I think he’s
one of the longest serving governors ever, definitely in Iowa. And I think that he has
tremendous respect from both sides of the aisle not just for how he’s handled himself
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as a governor in Iowa, but his deep understanding and ties to China and to China’s
economy and to Chinese officials. And I think he’s going to do a phenomenal job
representing our nation.
He starts with a deep understanding of the Chinese economy, the Chinese government,
and that is going to really serve our nation well.
Mara.
Q Can I just have a follow-up on China? Thank you. Because I know I got one
before.
MR. SPICER: You did.
Q I appreciate that. A lot of people voted for Donald Trump because they felt -they agreed with him that the U.S. was getting ripped off by China. And after the
election, he made the call to Taiwan, which he was praised for. Then he told Fox
News -- he said, "I don't know why we have to be bound by a one-China policy unless
we make a deal with China having to do with other things, including trade." Then he
reaffirmed the one-China policy. So what did he get in return from China for doing
that?
MR. SPICER: Well, he had a conversation with President Xi. I’m not going to get
into the details of it. But at the President’s -- President Xi’s request and after a
discussion, the President reaffirmed the one-China policy. The President is not one to
discuss his negotiating tactics. So I -Q
But did he get something? Can he assure the American people he got something?
MR. SPICER: The President always gets something. Ryan.
Q
Well, what was it? What was it?
Q Sean, two quick follow-ups. First of all, I noticed earlier today there were a lot of
Republican governors out here but not very many Democratic governors. Is this
administration actively attempting to reach out to the other side of the aisle for
compromise?
MR. SPICER: Yeah. I think if you saw the remarks during this pool opportunity, the
President talked about some of the conversations he had with Governor McAuliffe in
Virginia in particular. But they were here last night, they had dinner with their wives
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and husbands. It was an opportunity to really talk to the Cabinet and get to know each
other and talk about priorities.
I will say that -- it’s interesting, I mentioned Obamacare. When one of the things that
was brought up by the governors -- and I’ve got to be honest, I wasn’t picking which
governors and thinking of party -- but it came up over and over again that they actually
-- several of them commented on how appreciative they have been in terms of seeking
their input on not just healthcare but infrastructure and Medicaid, in particular, and
other areas that fall into their thing -- to their wheelhouse.
So I think -- just so we’re clear, the dialogue that exists between this administration
and this President and governors I think is a very refreshing move forward.
Q And then my point -- a follow-up, a quick follow-up. I want to clarify a little bit
of something that happened Thursday and Friday about the “public enemy” statement.
Are you saying that all of the press is the public enemy? People who didn’t vote for
the President? Just the people in this room, or -- is it just Bill Maher and maybe
Warren Beatty? Can you clarify what we’re talking about?
MR. SPICER: I think the President made clear in his tweet that he was referring to the
fake news and people who ascribe to pushing fake stories is where his target was.
Q Thanks a lot, Sean. As you know, more than 60 Democrats either boycotted or
skipped the President’s inauguration. What kind of reception do you think the
President will get tomorrow evening from Democrats in the House and Senate when
he gives his joint address?
MR. SPICER: Well, I hope a very robust and applause-filled reception. The speech,
as I mentioned, breaks down a lot of barriers that have traditionally been political
barriers in terms of areas where I think we should find agreement that reaffirm the
President’s desire to unite the country and unite our parties in areas of shared common
ground.
And I think the things that he’s talking about -- increasing the support to our military,
our veterans; helping children get an education -- those are things that hopefully we
can all come together and think are shared American values, regardless of party. I
hope that we see a tremendous amount of support for the President and his policies and
his vision tomorrow night. He recognizes the problems that our nation faces, but he
also charts a vision forward. And I think it’s one that if people are honest, that they
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will agree that it really isn’t a political agenda as much as an agenda for this country
and one to move us forward.
So I think that we’ll have to wait and see, but I can tell you that I think it will be a
positive move forward.
Zeke.
Q Thanks, Sean. Couple follow-ups to Olivier’s question earlier about the ISIS
review. It’s day 30. The memorandum the President signed 30 days ago said that he
was supposed to be briefed. Can you give us a more -- a timeline on when specifically
President Trump will be involved -- I know you mentioned there’s a principals
meeting earlier today -- what the timeline of the review is? And then separately, you
mentioned that Secretary Mattis was the one who’s presenting it to the principals
committee. The memorandum included things other than just the military; it included
public diplomacy efforts to cut off financial ties to ISIS. What were the other Cabinet
secretaries involved? What is sort of -- what got us here and where do we go from
here?
MR. SPICER: Thank you. Let me, if I may, get briefed on who and what occurred in
the principals meeting to the extent that it’s available, and I’d be glad to get back to
you tomorrow on that. I just don’t have that information available.
Gabi.
Q Thanks, Sean. Palm Beach County has said that it’s costing $60,000 a day in
overtime pay every time the President comes to visit West Palm Beach. He’s slated to
go there again this weekend according to some reports. Is the President taking any
steps to ensure that taxpayers aren’t saddled with tremendous costs in his travel habits,
considering he was so critical of his predecessor on that matter?
MR. SPICER: Well, Gabi, the security for the President and the First Family is set by
the Secret Service. As you know, they determine the security measures that need to be
taken to protect the President -- frankly, any President. So I’m going to leave it up to
the Secret Service to decide what security measures and steps are taken to protect the
President.
And, as you know, I mean, this -- depending on -- it transcends administrations.
Wherever the President goes, they need to make sure that the President and the First
Family is safe. That’s something that I think -- we rely on the Secret Service to make
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those determinations. They continue to do a phenomenal job making sure that the
First Family and the President and the Vice President are protected, and we have full
confidence in the decisions that they make.
So thank you guys very much. We’ll have a briefing tomorrow -- later today on the
state.
Q
Approximate time?
MR. SPICER: What’s that?
Q
Approximate time?
MR. SPICER: I would look in the 6 o'clock hour.
Q
Here?
MR. SPICER: Yes, here.
Q
After 6:00?
MR. SPICER: I get to see you here again. I would plan on around 6:00. We’ll have
further guidance. And I don’t anticipate it being long. I think we’re just going to walk
through the -- off camera. We’ll walk through the themes of the speech, take any
questions, and then try to get some additional information, depending on where the
President is in his read-through.
Q
No briefing tomorrow, right?
MR. SPICER: No briefing tomorrow. If you don’t want one, you don’t have to have
one.
Q
You said you’d get back to us on a couple of issues tomorrow.
MR. SPICER: Well, I’m -- it’s April that brought up no briefing. If you guys want to
vote -Q
No, no, no, but tradition is there’s no briefing on -- that’s why I’m asking.
MR. SPICER: I know. We will do something for you, I promise. We will make sure
we get back -Q
Is it going to be a gaggle like last Friday, or is it going to be --
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MR. SPICER: No, no, we will get back to you. I’m sure you’ll see my face here
tomorrow. Thank you very much. I’ll see you guys tomorrow.
END
2:46 P.M. EST
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Q&A: Protecting the Nation From Foreign Terrorist Entry To The United States | Homela... Page 1 of 20
Official website of the Department of Homeland
Contact Us
Quick Links
Site Map
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Security
Q&A: Protecting the
Nation From Foreign
Terrorist Entry To
The United States
Release Date: March 6, 2017
March 6, 2017 11:30 a.m. EST
Office of Public Affairs
Contact: 202-282-8010
Q1. Who is subject to the
suspension of entry under
the Executive Order?
Per the Executive Order, foreign nationals from Sudan,
Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen, who are outside
the United States and who did not have a valid visa at 5
p.m. Eastern Standard Time on January 27, 2017, and do
not have a valid visa on the effective date of this order
are not eligible to enter the United States while the
temporary suspension remains in effect. Thus any
individual who had a valid visa either on January 27,
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2017 (prior to 5:00 PM) or holds a valid visa on the
effective date of the Executive Order is not barred from
seeking entry.
Q2. Will “in-transit”
travelers within the scope of
the Executive Order be
denied entry into the United
States and returned to their
country of origin?
Those individuals who are traveling on valid visas and
arrive at a U.S. port of entry will still be permitted to seek
entry into the United States. All foreign nationals
traveling with a visa must continue to satisfy all
requirements for entry, including demonstrating that
they are admissible. Additional information on applying
for admission to the United States is available on
CBP.gov. (https://www.cbp.gov/travel/internationalvisitors/applying-admission-united-states)
Q3. I am a national from one
of the six affected countries
currently overseas and in
possession of a valid visa,
but I have no prior travel to
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the United States. Can I
travel to the United States?
Per the Executive Order, foreign nationals from Sudan,
Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen who have valid
visas will not be affected by this Executive Order. No
visas will be revoked solely based on this Executive
Order.
Q4. I am presently in the
United States in possession
of a valid single entry visa
but I am a national of one of
the six impacted countries.
Can I travel abroad and
return to the United States?
Regardless of the Executive Order, your visa is not valid
for multiple entries into the Unites States. While the
Executive Order does not apply to those within the
United States and your travel abroad is not limited, a
valid visa or other document permitting you to travel to
and seek admission to the United States is still required
for any subsequent entry to the United States.
Q5. I am presently in the
United States in possession
of a valid multiple entry visa
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but am a national of one of
the six affected countries,
can I travel abroad and
return to the United States?
Yes. Individuals within the United States with valid
multiple entry visas on the effective date of the order are
eligible for travel to and from the United States, provided
the visa remains valid and the traveler is otherwise
admissible. All foreign nationals traveling with a visa
must satisfy all admissibility requirements for entry.
Additional information on applying for admission to the
United States is available on CBP.gov.
(https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/applyingadmission-united-states)
Q6. I am from one of the six
countries, currently in the
United States in possession
of a valid visa and have
planned overseas travel. My
visa will expire while I am
overseas, can I return to the
United States?
Travelers must have a valid visa to travel to the United
States, regardless of the Executive Order. Travelers who
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do not have a valid visa due to its expiration while
abroad must obtain a new valid visa prior to returning to
the United States.
Q7. Will the Department of
Homeland Security (DHS)
and the Department of State
(DOS) be revoking the visas
of persons ineligible to
travel under the revised
Executive Order?
Visas will not be revoked solely as a result of the
Executive Order. The Department of State has broad
authority under Section 221(i) of the Immigration and
Nationality Act to revoke visas.
Q8. What is the process for
overseas travelers affected
by the Executive Order to
request a waiver?
Waivers for overseas travelers without a valid U.S. visa
will be adjudicated by the Department of State in
conjunction with a visa application.
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Q9. How are returning
refugees and asylees
affected by the Executive
Order?
Returning refugees and asylees, i.e., individuals who
have already been granted asylum or refugee status in
the United States, are explicitly excepted from this
Executive Order. As such, they may continue to travel
consistent with existing requirements.
Q10. Are first-time arrival
refugees with valid /travel
documents allowed to travel
to the United States?
Yes, but only refugees, regardless of nationality, whose
travel was already formally scheduled by the
Department of State, are permitted to travel to the
United States and seek admission. The Department of
State will have additional information.
Q11. Will unaccompanied
minors within the scope of
the Executive Order be
denied boarding and or
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denied entry into the United
States?
The Executive Order applies to those who do not have
valid visas. Any individuals, including children, who seek
entry to the United States must have a valid visa (or
other approved travel document) before travel to the
United States. The Secretary of State may issue a waiver
on a case-by-case basis when in the national interest of
the United States. With such a waiver, a visa may be
issued.
Q12. Is DHS complying with
all court orders?
DHS is complying, and will continue to comply, with all
court orders in effect.
Q13. When will the Executive
Order be implemented?
The Executive Order is effective at 12:01 A.M., Eastern
Standard Time, on March 16, 2017.
Q14. Will the Executive
Order impact Trusted
Traveler Program
membership?
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No. Currently, CBP does not have reciprocal agreements
for a Trusted Traveler Program with any of the countries
designated in the Executive Order.
Q15. When will CBP issue
guidance to both the field
and airlines regarding the
Executive Order?
CBP will issue guidance and contact stakeholders to
ensure timely implementation consistent with the terms
of the Executive Order.
Q16. Will first-time arrivals
with valid immigrant visas
be allowed to travel to the
U.S.?
Yes. Individuals holding valid visas on the effective date
of the Executive Order or on January 27, 2017 prior to
5:00 PM do not fall within the scope of the Order.
Q17. Does this affect
travelers at all ports of
entry?
Yes, this Executive Order applies to travelers who are
applying for entry into the United States at any port of
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entry—air, land, or sea—and includes preclearance
locations.
Q18. What does granting a
waiver to the Executive
Order mean? How are
waivers applied to individual
cases?
Per the Executive Order, the Departments of Homeland
Security and State can review individual cases and grant
waivers on a case-by-case basis if a foreign national
demonstrates that his or her entry into the United States
is in the national interest, will not pose a threat to
national security, and that denying entry during the
suspension period will cause undue hardship.
Q19. Does “from one of the
six countries” mean citizen,
national, or born in?
The Executive Order applies to both nationals and
citizens of the six countries.
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Q20. How does the
lawsuit/stay affect DHS
operations in implementing
this Executive Order?
Questions regarding the application of specific federal
court orders should be directed to the Department of
Justice.
Q21. Will nationals of the six
countries with valid green
cards (lawful permanent
residents of the United
States) be allowed to return
to the United States?
Per the Executive Order, the suspension of entry does
not apply to lawful permanent residents of the United
States.
Q22. Can a dual national
who holds nationality with
one of the six designated
countries traveling with a
passport from an
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unrestricted country travel
to the United States?
The Executive Order exempts from its scope any dual
national of one of the six countries when the individual is
traveling on a passport issued by a different nondesignated country.
Q23. Can a dual national
who holds nationality with
one of the six designated
countries and is currently
overseas, apply for an
immigrant or nonimmigrant
visa to the United States?
Please contact the Department of State for information
about how the Executive Order applies to visa
applicants.
Q24. Are international
students, exchange visitors,
and their dependents from
the six countries (such as F,
M, or J visa holders)
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included in the Executive
Order? What kind of
guidance is being given to
foreign students from these
countries legally in the
United States?
The Executive Order does not apply to individuals who
are within the United States on the effective date of the
Order or to those individuals who hold a valid visa. Visas
which were provisionally revoked solely as a result of the
enforcement of Executive Order 13769 are valid for
purposes of administering this Executive Order.
Individuals holding valid F, M, or J visas may continue to
travel to the United States on those visas if they are
otherwise valid.
Please contact the State Department for information
about how the Executive Order applies to visa
applicants.
Q25. What happens to
international students,
exchange visitors or their
dependents from the six
countries, such as F, M or J
visa holders if their visa
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expires while the Executive
Order is in place and they
have to depart the country?
The Executive Order does not affect F, M, or J visa
holders if they currently have a valid visa on the effective
date or held a valid visa on January 27, 2017 prior to the
issuance of the Executive Order. With that said, travelers
must have a valid visa to travel to the United States,
regardless of the Executive Order. Travelers whose visa
expires after the effective date of the Executive Order
must obtain a new, valid visa to return to the United
States.
Q26. Can U.S. Citizenship
and Immigration Services
(USCIS) continue refugee
interviews?
The Departments of Homeland Security and State will
conduct interviews as appropriate and consistent with
the Executive Order. However, the Executive Order
suspends decisions on applications for refugee status,
unless the Secretary of Homeland Security and the
Secretary of State jointly determine, on a case-by-case
basis, that the entry of an individual as a refugee is in the
national interest and would not pose a threat to the
security or welfare of the United States.
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Q27. Can the exception for
refugee admission be used
for Refugee/Asylee Relative
Petitions (Form I-730) cases
where a family member is
requesting a beneficiary
follow to join?
No. Individuals who already have valid visas or travel
documents that permit them to travel to the United
States are exempt from the Executive Order. To the
extent that an individual does not yet have such
documents, please contact the Department of State.
Q28. Does the Executive
Order apply to those
currently being adjudicated
for naturalization or
adjustment of status?
USCIS will continue to adjudicate Applications for
Naturalization (Form N-400) and Applications to Register
Permanent Residence or Adjust Status (Form I-485) and
grant citizenship consistent with existing practices.
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Q29. Will landed immigrants
of Canada affected by the
Executive Order be eligible
for entry to the United
States?
Landed immigrants of Canada who hold passports from
one of the six countries are eligible to apply for a visa,
and coordinate a waiver, at a location within Canada.
Q30. Has CBP issued clear
guidance to CBP officers at
ports of entry regarding the
Executive Order?
CBP has and will continue to issue any needed guidance
to the field with respect to this Executive Order.
Q31. What coordination is
being done between CBP and
the carriers?
CBP has been and will remain in continuous
communication with the airlines through CBP regional
carrier liaisons. In addition, CBP will hold executive level
calls with airlines in order to provide guidance, answer
questions, and address concerns.
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Q32. What additional
screening will nationals of
restricted countries (as well
as any visa applications)
undergo as a result of the
Executive Order?
In making admission and visa eligibility determinations,
DHS and DOS will continue to apply all appropriate
security vetting procedures.
Q33. Why is a temporary
suspension warranted?
The Executive Order signed on March 6, 2017, allows for
the proper review and establishment of standards to
prevent terrorist or criminal infiltration by foreign
nationals. The Executive Order protects the United
States from countries compromised by terrorism and
ensures a more rigorous vetting process. Protecting the
American people is the highest priority of our
Government and this Department.
Congress and the Obama Administration designated
these six countries as countries of concern due to the
national security risks associated with their instability
and the prevalence of terrorist fighters in their
territories.The conditions in the six designated countries
present a recognized threat, warranting additional
scrutiny of their nationals seeking to travel to and enter
the United States. In order to ensure that the U.S.
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Government can conduct a thorough and
comprehensive analysis of the national security risks, the
Executive Order imposes a 90-day suspension on entry to
the United States of nationals of those countries.
Based on commitments from the Government of Iraq,
the suspension of entry in this Executive Order will not
apply to nationals of Iraq. Iraq has taken steps to
increase their cooperation with the United States in the
vetting of Iraqi nationals and as such it was determined
that a temporary suspension is not warranted.
DHS will faithfully execute the immigration laws and the
President’s Executive Order, and will treat all of those we
encounter humanely and with professionalism.
Q34. Why is a suspension of
the refugee program
warranted?
Some of those who have entered the United States as
refugees have also proved to be threats to our national
security. For example, in October 2014, an individual
admitted to the United States as a refugee from Somalia,
and who later became a naturalized U.S. citizen was
sentenced to 30 years in prison for attempting to use a
weapon of mass destruction in connection with a plot to
set off a bomb at a Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in
Portland, Oregon. The Federal Bureau of Investigation
has reported that approximately 300 persons who
entered the United States as refugees are currently the
subjects of counterterrorism investigations.
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Q35. How were the six
countries designated in the
Executive Order selected?
The six countries, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and
Yemen, had already been identified as presenting
concerns about terrorism and travel to the United
States.Specifically, the suspension applies to countries
referred to in, or designated under—except Iraq—section
217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. § 1187(a)(12).In that
provision Congress restricted use of the Visa Waiver
Program by dual nationals of, and aliens recently
present in, (A) Syria and Iraq, (B) any country designated
by the Secretary of State as a state sponsor of terrorism
(currently Iran, Syria, and Sudan), and (C) any other
country designated as a country of concern by the
Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the
Secretary of State and the Director of National
Intelligence.In 2016, the former Secretary of Homeland
Security designated Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as
additional countries of concern regarding aliens recently
present in those countries.
For the purposes of this Executive Order, although Iraq
has been previously identified, based on commitments
from the Government of Iraq, the suspension of entry in
this Executive Order will not apply to nationals of Iraq.
However, those who are dual nationals of Iraq and aliens
recently present in Iraq continue to have restricted use of
the Visa Waiver Program.
On the basis of negotiations that have taken place
between the Government of Iraq and the U.S.
Department of State in the last month, Iraq will increase
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cooperation with the U.S. Government on the vetting of
its citizens applying for a visa to travel to the United
States.As such it was determined that a temporary
suspension with respect to nationals of Iraq is not
warranted at this time.
Q36. Why was Iraq treated
differently in this Executive
Order?
The close cooperative relationship between the United
States and the democratically-elected Iraqi government,
the strong U.S. diplomatic presence in Iraq, the
significant presence of U.S. forces in Iraq, and Iraq’s
commitment to combat ISIS justify different treatment.In
particular, those Iraqi government forces that have
fought to regain more than half of the territory
previously dominated by ISIS have earned special
status.In addition, since Executive Order 13769 was
issued, the Iraqi government has expressly undertaken
steps to provide additional information about its citizens
for purposes of our immigration decisions.Accordingly, it
is no longer necessary to include Iraq in the temporary
suspension applicable to the other six countries, but visa
applications and applications for admission to the
United States by Iraqi nationals will be subjected to
additional scrutiny to determine if they have
connections with ISIS or other terrorist organizations.
Q37. Are Iraqi nationals
subject to the Executive
Order? Will they require a
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waiver to travel to the
United States?
This Executive Order does not presently suspend the
entry of nationals of Iraq. However, all travelers must
have a valid travel document in order to travel to the
United States. Admissibility will be determined by a CBP
officer upon arrival at a Port of Entry. Please contact the
Department of State for information related to visa
eligibility and application.
Topics: Border Security (/topics/border-security) , Homeland Security
Enterprise (/topics/homeland-security-enterprise) , Immigration
Enforcement (/topics/immigration-enforcement)
Keywords: immigration (/keywords/immigration) , immigration
enforcement (/keywords/immigration-enforcement)
Last Published Date: March 6, 2017
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/03/06/qa-protecting-nation-foreign-terrorist-entry-united-... 3/12/2017
Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 38
Memorandum for the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Secretary of Homeland... Page 1 of 5
the WHITE HOUSE
PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP
From the Press Office
Speeches & Remarks
Press Briefings
Statements & Releases
Presidential Actions
Executive Orders
Presidential Memoranda
Proclamations
Related OMB Material
Legislation
Nominations & Appointments
Disclosures
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
March 06, 2017
Memorandum for the Secretary
of State, the Attorney General,
the Secretary of Homeland
Security
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MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF STATE
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY
SUBJECT: Implementing Immediate Heightened Screening and Vetting of
Applications for Visas and Other Immigration Benefits, Ensuring Enforcement of All
Laws for Entry into the United States, and Increasing Transparency among
Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government and for the American People
By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the
United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8
U.S.C. 1101 et seq., and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, I hereby direct the
following:
Section 1. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to keep its citizens safe from
terrorist attacks, including those committed by foreign nationals. To avert the
entry into the United States of foreign nationals who may aid, support, or commit
violent, criminal, or terrorist acts, it is critical that the executive branch enhance
the screening and vetting protocols and procedures for granting visas, admission to
the United States, or other benefits under the INA. For that reason, in the executive
order entitled, "Protecting the Nation from Foreign Terrorist Entry into the United
States," and issued today, I directed the Secretary of Homeland Security, in
consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, to
conduct a review to "identify whether, and if so what, additional information will be
needed from each foreign country to adjudicate an application by a national of that
country for a visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in
order to determine that the individual is not a security or public-safety threat."
While that comprehensive review is ongoing, however, this Nation cannot delay the
immediate implementation of additional heightened screening and vetting
protocols and procedures for issuing visas to ensure that we strengthen the safety
and security of our country.
Moreover, because it is my constitutional duty to "take Care that the Laws be
faithfully executed," the executive branch is committed to ensuring that all laws
related to entry into the United States are enforced rigorously and consistently.
Sec. 2. Enhanced Vetting Protocols and Procedures for Visas and Other
Immigration Benefits. The Secretary of State and the Secretary of Homeland
Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall, as permitted by law,
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implement protocols and procedures as soon as practicable that in their judgment
will enhance the screening and vetting of applications for visas and all other
immigration benefits, so as to increase the safety and security of the American
people. These additional protocols and procedures should focus on:
(a) preventing the entry into the United States of foreign nationals who may aid,
support, or commit violent, criminal, or terrorist acts; and
(b) ensuring the proper collection of all information necessary to rigorously
evaluate all grounds of inadmissibility or deportability, or grounds for the denial of
other immigration benefits.
Sec. 3. Enforcement of All Laws for Entry into the United States. I direct the
Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and
the heads of all other relevant executive departments and agencies (as identified
by the Secretary of Homeland Security) to rigorously enforce all existing grounds of
inadmissibility and to ensure subsequent compliance with related laws after
admission. The heads of all relevant executive departments and agencies shall
issue new rules, regulations, or guidance (collectively, rules), as appropriate, to
enforce laws relating to such grounds of inadmissibility and subsequent
compliance. To the extent that the Secretary of Homeland Security issues such
new rules, the heads of all other relevant executive departments and agencies
shall, as necessary and appropriate, issue new rules that conform to them. Such
new rules shall supersede any previous rules to the extent of any conflict.
Sec. 4. Transparency and Data Collection. (a) To ensure that the American people
have more regular access to information, and to ensure that the executive branch
shares information among its departments and agencies, the Secretary of State and
Secretary of Homeland Security shall, consistent with applicable law and national
security, issue regular reports regarding visas and adjustments of immigration
status, written in non-technical language for broad public use and understanding.
In addition to any other information released by the Secretary of State, the
Attorney General, or the Secretary of Homeland Security:
(i) Beginning on April 28, 2017, and by the last day of every month thereafter,
the Secretary of State shall publish the following information about actions
taken during the preceding calendar month:
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(A) the number of visas that have been issued from each consular office
within each country during the reporting period, disaggregated by
detailed visa category and country of issuance; and
(B) any other information the Secretary of State considers appropriate,
including information that the Attorney General or Secretary of
Homeland Security may request be published.
(ii) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall issue reports detailing the
number of adjustments of immigration status that have been made during
the reporting period, disaggregated by type of adjustment, type and detailed
class of admission, and country of nationality. The first report shall be issued
within 90 days of the date of this memorandum, and subsequent reports shall
be issued every 90 days thereafter. The first report shall address data from
the date of this memorandum until the report is issued, and each subsequent
report shall address new data since the last report was issued.
(b) To further ensure transparency for the American people regarding the efficiency
and effectiveness of our immigration programs in serving the national interest, the
Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Health and Human
Services, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and the Director of the Office of
Management and Budget, shall, within 180 days of the date of this memorandum,
submit to me a report detailing the estimated long-term costs of the United States
Refugee Admissions Program at the Federal, State, and local levels, along with
recommendations about how to curtail those costs.
(c) The Secretary of State, in consultation with the Director of the Office of
Management and Budget, shall, within 180 days of the date of this memorandum,
produce a report estimating how many refugees are being supported in countries of
first asylum (near their home countries) for the same long-term cost as supporting
refugees in the United States, taking into account the full lifetime cost of Federal,
State, and local benefits, and the comparable cost of providing similar benefits
elsewhere.
Sec. 5. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to
impair or otherwise affect:
(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the
head thereof; or
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(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget
relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and
subject to the availability of appropriations.
(c) All actions taken pursuant to this memorandum shall be consistent with
requirements and authorities to protect intelligence and law enforcement sources
and methods, personally identifiable information, and the confidentiality of visa
records. Nothing in this memorandum shall be interpreted to supersede measures
established under authority of law to protect the security and integrity of specific
activities and associations that are in direct support of intelligence and law
enforcement operations.
(d) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit,
substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the
United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or
agents, or any other person.
(e) The Secretary of State is hereby authorized and directed to publish this
memorandum in the Federal Register.
DONALD J. TRUMP
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 39
Revised executive order bans travelers from six Muslim-majority countries from getting n... Page 1 of 7
National Security
Revised executive order
bans travelers from six
Muslim-majority
countries from getting
new visas
By Matt Zapotosky, David Nakamura and Abigail Hauslohner March 6
President Trump signed a new travel ban Monday that administration officials said they hope will end legal
challenges over the matter by imposing a 90-day ban on the issuance of new visas for citizens of six
majority-Muslim nations.
In addition, the nation’s refugee program will be suspended for 120 days, and the United States will not
accept more than 50,000 refugees in a year, down from the 110,000 cap set by the Obama administration.
The new guidelines mark a dramatic departure from Trump’s original ban, issued in January and
immediately met by massive protests and then ordered frozen by the courts. The new ban lays out a far
more specific national security basis for the order, blocks the issuance only of new visas, and names just six
of the seven countries included in the first executive order, omitting Iraq.
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Trump signed the new ban out of public view, according to White House officials. The order will take effect
March 16.
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“This executive order responsibly provides a needed pause so we can carefully review how we scrutinize
people coming here from these countries of concern,” Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in announcing
that the order had been signed.
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The order also details specific sets of people who would be able to apply for case-by-case waivers to the
order, including those previously admitted to the United States for “a continuous period of work, study, or
other long-term activity”; those with “significant business or professional obligations”; and those seeking to
visit or live with family.
Trump’s campaign, meanwhile, sent out an email asking people to sign a petition in support of the new
order.
“As your President, I made a solemn promise to keep America safe,” the email signed by Trump said. “And I
will NEVER stop fighting until we implement the policies you — and millions of Americans like you — voted
for.”
Democrats and civil liberties groups said Monday that the new order was legally tainted in the same way as
the first one: It was a thinly disguised Muslim ban. Trump, in his email, used the phrase “radical Islamic
terrorism” to describe his concern with the countries whose citizens would be blocked from acquiring visas.
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That seems to portend more litigation — though how soon remains unclear. The attorney general of
Washington state, Bob Ferguson, who successfully sued to have the first ban blocked, said he was still
reviewing what to do.
The new order, Ferguson said, represented a “significant victory” for Washington state because the
administration had “capitulated on numerous key provisions that we contested in court.” But he said state
lawyers would need two or three days to see what action they would take in the court case.
“We’re reviewing it carefully, and still have concerns with the new order,” Ferguson said.
The Justice Department argued in a court filing that even if the litigation were to move forward, it should do
so at a slower pace, and with the new ban in place. The government noted that visa applicants typically have
to wait months and asserted there was “no imminent harm” from the president’s temporary suspension of
the issuance of new visas to certain people.
That assertion, though, did little to assuage the concerns of Democrats and civil liberties groups, who said
the new ban was just like the old.
Karen Tumlin, the legal director of the National Immigration Law Center, predicted that federal judges who
ordered a restraining order on the earlier ban are likely to do so again, and that pending lawsuits filed by
her organization and others will not need to be filed anew. “From our vantage point, that litigation lives on,”
she said.
New York Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman (D), who joined the legal fight against the first ban, said,
“While the White House may have made changes to the ban, the intent to discriminate against Muslims
remains clear.”
Omar Jadwat, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Immigrants’ Rights Project, said, “The only
way to actually fix the Muslim ban is not to have a Muslim ban. Instead, President Trump has recommitted
himself to religious discrimination, and he can expect continued disapproval from both the courts and the
people.”
The revised travel ban also came under quick fire from refugee advocates, who said it unfairly penalizes
refugees without improving U.S. security.
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“President Trump still seems to believe you can determine who’s a terrorist by knowing which country a
man, woman or child is from,” said Grace Meng, an immigration researcher with Human Rights Watch.
“Putting this executive order into effect will only create a false sense of security that genuine steps are being
taken to protect Americans from attack, while undermining the standing of the U.S. as a refuge for those at
greatest risk.”
Officials from the State, Homeland Security and Justice departments defended the new order as a necessary
measure to improve public safety. They said the countries named — Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Libya, Syria and
Yemen — were either state sponsors of terrorism, or their territories were so compromised that they were
effectively havens for terrorist groups. Iraq was omitted, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said, because it is
an “important ally in the fight to defeat ISIS” — the Islamic State militant organization — and Iraq’s leaders
had agreed to implement new, unspecified security measures.
The ban is among several measures the administration has introduced in the name of border security. Also
Monday, Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly said he was “considering” separating undocumented
immigrant parents from their children to deter people from trying to enter the country. Those people, he
said, are often moved to the United States by a “terribly dangerous network” that originates in Central
America.
Civil rights advocates said Monday that the new ban’s sudden exclusion of Iraq, as well as the omission of
other countries with active terrorist groups — such as Colombia, Venezuela, Pakistan and the Philippines —
underscored the ban’s arbitrariness as a national security measure.
The new order provides other exceptions not contained explicitly in previous versions: for travelers from
those countries who are legal permanent residents of the United States, dual nationals who use a passport
from another country, and those who have been granted asylum or refugee status. It removes an exception
to the refugee ban for members of religious minority groups — which critics had pointed to as evidence the
first ban was meant to discriminate against Muslims — and it no longer imposes an indefinite prohibition
on travelers from Syria.
Anyone who holds a visa now should be able to get into the country without any problems, although those
whose visas expire will have to reapply, officials said.
The order claims that since 2001, hundreds of people born abroad have been convicted of terrorism-related
crimes in the United States. It cites two specific examples: Two Iraqi nationals who came to the United
States as refugees in 2009, it says, were convicted of terrorism-related offenses, and in October 2014, a
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Somali native brought to the country as a child refugee was sentenced to 30 years in prison for plotting to
detonate a bomb at a Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in Oregon. That man became a naturalized U.S.
citizen.
“We cannot risk the prospect of malevolent actors using our immigration system to take American lives,”
Homeland Security Secretary John F. Kelly said.
The new ban also says that more than 300 people who entered the country as refugees were the subject of
active counterterrorism investigations. U.S. officials declined to specify the countries of origin of those
being investigated, their immigration status, or whether they had been charged with crimes.
Charles Kurzman, a sociology professor who studies violent extremism at the University of North Carolina
at Chapel Hill, said that since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, there have been no fatalities caused by
Muslim extremists with family backgrounds in the six countries covered by the new ban. A Department of
Homeland Security report assessing the terrorist threat posed by people from the seven countries covered
by the president’s original travel ban had cast doubt on the necessity of the executive order, concluding that
citizenship was an “unreliable” threat indicator and that people from the affected countries had rarely been
implicated in U.S.-based terrorism.
The Department of Homeland Security official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, criticized the report
as being incomplete and not vetted with other agencies, and he said the administration should not be
pressed by the judiciary to unveil sensitive national security details to justify the ban.
The order represents an attempt by the Trump administration to tighten security requirements for travelers
from nations that officials said represent a terrorism threat. A more sweeping attempt in January provoked
mass protests across the country as travelers en route to the United States were detained at airports after
the surprise order was announced. The State Department had provisionally revoked tens of thousands of
visas all at once.
Officials sought to dismiss the idea that there would be any confusion surrounding the implementation of
the new order. They said they delayed implementation so the government could go through the appropriate
legal processes and ensure that no government employee would face “legal jeopardy” for enforcing the
order.
The revisions to the order will make it more defensible in court — limiting the number of people with
standing to sue — but the changes might not allay all the concerns raised by judges across the country. The
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three-judge panel with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, for example, said that exempting greencard and current visa holders from the ban would not address the court’s concern about U.S. citizens with
an interest in noncitizens’ travel.
The administration, too, will have to wrestle with comments by the president and top adviser Rudolph W.
Giuliani that seemed to indicate the intent of the order was to ban Muslims from entering the United States,
which could run afoul of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
On the campaign trail, Trump called for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United
States.” After the election, Giuliani, a former New York City mayor, said: “So when [Trump] first announced
it, he said, ‘Muslim ban.’ He called me up. He said, ‘Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do
it legally.’ ”
A federal judge in Virginia referenced those comments in ordering the ban frozen with respect to Virginia
residents and institutions, calling it “unrebutted evidence” that Trump’s directive might violate the First
Amendment.
Carol Morello, Matea Gold, Missy Ryan, Mark Berman and Rachel Weiner contributed to this report.
Matt Zapotosky covers the Justice Department for the Washington Post's National Security team.
Follow @mattzap
David Nakamura covers the White House. He has previously covered sports, education and city
government and reported from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Japan. Follow @davidnakamura
Abigail Hauslohner is a national reporter who covers Islam, Arab affairs and America. Before coming
to Washington in 2015, she spent seven years covering war, politics and religion in the Middle East,
and served as the Post’s Cairo bureau chief. She has also covered District politics and government.
Follow @ahauslohner
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 40
Press Briefing by Press Secretary Sean Spicer, 3/7/2017, #18 | whitehouse.gov
the WHITE HOUSE
Page 1 of 40
PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP
From the Press Office
Speeches & Remarks
Press Briefings
Statements & Releases
Presidential Actions
Legislation
Nominations & Appointments
Disclosures
The White House
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
March 07, 2017
Press Briefing by Press
Secretary Sean Spicer, 3/7/2017,
#18
James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
1:36 P.M. EST
MR. SPICER: Hey, guys. I brought a guest. Good afternoon. First off, at the top, I
want to acknowledge that there’s been an additional wave of threats to Jewish
community centers and Anti-Defamation League offices. According to some
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reports, there have been over a hundred bomb threats phoned in to Jewish
institutions since the start of this year alone.
As the President said at the beginning of his joint address, “We're a country that
stands united in condemning hate and evil in all of its forms. We denounce these
latest anti-Semitic and hateful threats in the strongest terms.”
It is incredibly saddening that I have to continue to share these disturbing reports
with you, and I share the President’s thoughts that he fervently hopes that we don't
continue to have to share these reports with you. But as long as they will -- as long
as they do continue, we'll continue to condemn them and look at ways in which we
can stop them.
Now, on to news of the day. You saw President Trump yesterday continue to
deliver on two of his most significant campaign promises: protecting the country
against radical Islamic terrorism, and repealing and replacing Obamacare with a
patient-centric alternative.
We talked a lot about the executive order protecting the nation from foreign
terrorists entering the United States yesterday. And so, on to Obamacare. I'd like
to introduce the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Tom Price, to come
up and talk to you a little bit about the plan to repeal and replace Obamacare.
Dr. Price.
SECRETARY PRICE: Thanks, Sean. Good afternoon. First, let me just share with you
what an honor it is to serve as the Secretary of Health and Human Services. I'm the
third physician out of 23 individuals who’ve had the privilege of serving as the
Secretary of Health and Human Services. And the mission at our department is to
improve the health and safety and well-being of the American people. And we take
that mission very, very seriously.
And for many Americans, right now, their ability to gain healthcare or health
coverage is a real challenge. For most Americans, they receive their health
coverage through their employer. It's about 175 million folks. Those individuals
will see no significant change other than there won't be a penalty for not
purchasing coverage. For the folks in the Medicare system, there will be no changes
at all in the current law. But we're talking about those people in the individual and
small-group market, the moms and pops, the folks who run the corner grocery
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store, the corner cleaners. Those individuals out there are having huge challenges
gaining care and gaining coverage.
And then Medicaid is a program that by and large has decreased the ability for folks
to gain access to care, and we want to make certain that we address that.
This is about patients. This is not about money. This is not about something else.
This is about patients. And sadly, the costs are going up for those folks in the
individual and small-group market. The access is going down, and it's only getting
worse. You know the stories. Premiums increased 25 percent over the last year, on
average. Arizona had an increase of 116 percent. Deductibles are going up for
many, many folks. If you're a mom or a dad out there and you make $40,000,
$50,000, $60,000, your deductible in this market, in that individual and small-group
market, oftentimes is $8,000, $10,000, $12,000 a year.
What that means is you’ve got an insurance card but you don't get care because
you can't afford the deductible. And we know that this is happening by talking to
the folks who are out there trying to provide the care.
A third of the counties in the United States -- one-third of the counties in the United
States have only one insurer offering coverage on the exchange. Five states only
have one insurer offering coverage on the exchange. One insurer is not a choice. So
we need to make certain that we correct that.
In Tennessee this morning, it was announced that there are a number of counties
that have no insurer offering coverage on the exchange. Insurers are leaving the
market on the exchange. Last year there were 232 insurers that were providing
coverage -- that were offering coverage on the exchange; now there are 167. That's
a loss of about 30 percent in one year alone. And all of this means that patients are
not getting the care that they need.
Now, the principles that we have as our guiding star are affordability, we want a
system that’s affordable for everybody. Accessibility, we need a system that’s
accessible for everybody. A system that’s of the highest quality, a system that
incentivizes innovation in the healthcare system, and a system that empowers
patients through both transparency and accountability.
The President spoke last week, last Tuesday to a joint session of Congress, and he
laid out his principles. First, wanted to make certain that those with preexisting
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illness and injury were not priced out of the market. Nobody ought to lose their
coverage because they get a bad diagnosis.
In terms of affordability, health savings accounts -- growing choices for patients is
incredibly important. Tax credits that allow individuals to be able to purchase the
kind of coverage that they want, not that the government forces them to buy.
We’ve always talked about -- in terms of what kinds of reforms need to be put in
place, that we need to equalize the tax treatment for the purchase of coverage.
Those, again, in the employer-sponsored market, they get a tax benefit for buying
health coverage. Those folks that are out there in the individual and small-group
market, no tax benefit. And that’s what this plan would do.
State flexibility. It’s incredibly important that we allow the states to be the ones
that are defining what health coverage is, have the flexibility, especially in the
Medicaid program, to be able to respond to their vulnerable population.
Lawsuit abuse. The President mentioned, and it’s incredibly important, that -- the
practice of defensive medicine wastes billions and billions of dollars every single
year, and we need to make certain that we’re addressing that as well. The
President also talked about a glide path, an appropriate transition to this new
phase for healthcare for our country, and that’s important as well so that nobody
falls through the cracks.
Buying across state lines, buying insurance across state lines. The President talked
about this on the campaign over and over. The American people understand the
commonsense nature of purchasing across state lines, and it increases
competition. And we need to make certain that that happens, and then addressing
the incredible increase in drug prices.
There are three phases of this plan. One is the bill that was introduced last evening
in the House of Representatives. That’s the start of all of this. Second are the all
the regulatory modifications and changes that can be put into place. As you all well
know, the previous administration used regulations to a fare-thee-well -- in fact,
there were 192 specific rules that were put out as they relate to Obamacare, over
5,000 letters of guidance and the like. And we are going to go through every single
one of those and make certain that if they help patients, then we need to continue
them. If they harm patients or increase costs, then obviously they need to be
addressed. And then there’s other legislation that will need to be addressed that
can’t be done through the reconciliation process.
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So the goal of all of this is patient-centered healthcare, where patients and families
and doctors are making medical decisions, and not the federal government. We
commend the House for the introduction of the bill yesterday and we look forward
to working with all individuals in this process.
And I look forward to a few questions. Yes, sir.
Q Mr. Secretary, you’re familiar from your time in the House with the clout that
conservative groups like the Club for Growth and Heritage Action have with rankand-file members. What does it say about this legislation that these groups are
already out with opposition to it?
SECRETARY PRICE: Well, I think that this is the beginning of the process. And we
look forward to working with them and others to make certain that, again, we come
up with that process that aligns with the principles that we’ve defined that they
actually adhere to or agree with as well, and that is that we need a system that’s
affordable for folks, a system that’s accessible for individuals, that’s of the highest
quality, that incentivizes innovation, and that empowers patients.
And so we look forward to working with them through this process.
Q Secretary, Congressman Chaffetz said today that Americans may need to forgo
a new iPhone to pay for healthcare, and they’ll have to kind of make these choices.
Does the administration agree with that? Will Americans under this plan -- will they
need to maybe sacrifice other goods to pay for their healthcare?
SECRETARY PRICE: This is an important question, because what’s happening right
now is that the American people are having to sacrifice in order to purchase
coverage. And, as I mentioned, many individuals can’t afford the kind of coverage
that they have right now. So they’ve got that insurance card but they don’t have
care.
What our desire is, is to drive down the healthcare costs for everybody. And the
way that you do that is to increase choices for folks, increase competition, return
the regulation of healthcare where it ought to be, which is at the state level, not at
the federal level. All of these things that, taken in their aggregate, will in fact
decrease the costs of healthcare and health coverage, and that will allow folks to
be able to purchase the coverage that they want.
Yes, sir.
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Q Thank you, Dr. Price. I have two questions for you. First has to do with
guarantees that you can make as the administration’s point person on this
legislation. Can you guarantee that whatever legislation emerges and makes it to
the President’s desk will allow individuals, if they like their doctor they can keep
their doctor? And the second guarantee is, can you also guarantee that healthcare
premiums for individuals will come down with this new legislation?
SECRETARY PRICE: Again, a remarkably important question because, as you’ll
recall, the promise from the last administration was if you like your doctor you can
keep your doctor, if you like your plan you can keep your plan. Both of those
promises turned out to be not true.
We think it’s incredibly important for the American people to be able to select the
physician and the place where they’re treated themselves, that the government
ought not be involved in that process. And so our goal is absolutely to make certain
that individuals have the opportunity to select their physician.
In terms of premiums, we believe strongly that through this whole process and as it
takes effect, that we’ll see a decrease in not only the premiums that individuals will
see, but a decrease in the cost of healthcare for folks. Remember, that was another
promise that the previous administration made, that you’d see a decrease in $2,500
on average for families across this land; in fact, what they’ve seen is an increase of
$2,500 or $3,000.
So we’re going to go in the other direction. We’re going to go in a direction that
empowers patients and holds down costs.
Yes.
Q Mr. Secretary, you are quite a distance away from conservatives with this plan in
the central part of it, which is tax credits, which they see as yet another
entitlement, very similar to the entitlement of Obamacare but different in form.
How do you convince them, since it’s going to take tax credits to make this work,
that they need to swallow this and move forward with the bill? I mean, you’re
getting an awful lot of opposition on the central tenet of this whole thing.
SECRETARY PRICE: This is all about patients. And in order to provide that
transition and in order to make it so that nobody falls through the cracks. We've
got to have a system that allows for individuals to gain the kind of coverage that
they want.
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And we, conservatives and others, have said for a long, long time that we believe
it's important to equalize the tax treatment for those purchasing coverage, gaining
coverage through their employer, and those not. And the tax credit is the
opportunity to be able to equalize that tax treatment. Folks have talked about this
for many, many years, actually, so that there's not a distortion in the tax code for
who's able to gain a benefit for being able to purchase coverage and not.
Q Sir, Mr. Secretary, you were talking about making sure people don't fall through
the cracks. The last administration, with Obamacare, focused in on making sure
the underserved were part of the equation. What is the safety net or the safeguard
that you have to make sure -- to ensure people don't fall through the cracks beyond
the tax incentives, but also for the underserved, who are now part of -- many are
now part of the program that weren't before, prior to Obamacare.
SECRETARY PRICE: Yes, this is extremely important as well. And the current
system, as you likely know, for those vulnerable in our population, especially in the
Medicaid population, this is a system that's broken. You've got a third of the
physicians in this country -- one-third of the doctors in this country that would be
eligible to see Medicaid patients who aren't seeing Medicaid patients right now.
And it's not because they've forgotten how to take care of patients, it's because of
the rules that are in place that make it too onerous or too difficult for them to see
Medicaid patients.
So we believe that it's important to allow states to have that flexibility to fashion
the program for their vulnerable population that actually responds to that
population in a way that gives them the authority, them the choices, them the
opportunity to gain coverage and the care that they believe most appropriate.
Q What if you find out that that is not happening when you give it to the states? Is
there some type of punishment or some type of piece that you're going to put in
place to make sure that that happens, that they follow through on your intent?
SECRETARY PRICE: Yes, absolutely. There's accountability throughout the plan
that we have that would allow for the Secretary and the Department to be certain
that the individuals that we believe need to be cared for are being cared for in the
state at the appropriate level. But we believe this is a partnership. This is about
patients and partnership.
The previous administration tended to make it about government. We believe it's
about patients and partnership, and we want to partner with every single person in
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this land who wants to make certain that we allow the kind of choices and quality
to exist.
Q The President tweeted earlier today. He described this bill as "our wonderful
new healthcare bill." There's been a little bit of confusion. Does this represent the
administration's bill? And is there anything in this bill that the administration
cannot support?
SECRETARY PRICE: This has been a work in progress. As you know, this has been
going on for over a year. The work that I had the privilege of participating in when I
served in the House of Representatives in the last Congress was open and
transparent and we invited folks in to give their ideas. And tens, if not hundreds, of
people had input into that process.
This grew out of that, and over the past number of weeks, we've been having
conversations with folks on the Hill, in the House and in the Senate, and other
stakeholders. And so this is a work product that is a result of all of that process.
The President and the administration support this step in the right -- what we
believe is in the right direction, a step that repeals Obamacare and gets us moving
in the direction of those principles that I outlined.
Q Do you support everything that’s in that bill that's sitting on the table, sir? Do
you support everything that's in the bill sitting on the table, sir?
SECRETARY PRICE: This is a work in progress and we'll work with the House and the
Senate in this process. As you know, it's a legislative process that occurs. I'm glad
you pointed out the bill is on the table there. As you'll see, this bill right here was
the bill that was introduced in 2009 and '10 by the previous administration. Notice
how thick that is. Some of you will recall that I actually turned the pages and went
through that piece of legislation in a YouTube. The pile on the right is the current
bill.
And what it means is that we are making certain that the process, that the decisions
that are going to be made are not going to be made by the federal government.
They're going to be made by patients and families and doctors.
One last --
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Q Mr. Secretary, given the opposition that John and others have brought up here
today, does this plan already need to be salvaged in your view? And how do you do
it?
SECRETARY PRICE: Oh, no. You know what happens with these things. You start at
a starting point, people engage and they get involved in the process, sometimes to
a greater degree. Nothing focuses the mind like a bill that's currently on the table
and that has a -- as a work in progress -- or in process. And we’ll work through it.
Q So this is a starting point here?
SECRETARY PRICE: This is an important process to be had. The American people
have said to their elected leaders that the Obamacare process for them gaining
coverage and care is not working. That's what they've said. And so we believe it’s
important to respond to the American people and provide a healthcare system that
allows for them to purchase the kind of coverage and care that they desire.
Yes.
Q You said in your letter to the House chairman that necessary technical and
appropriate changes might need to be made for this bill to reach the President’s
desk. So what specific changes is the White House and the administration looking
for in this bill?
SECRETARY PRICE: Well, as I mentioned, there are three different phases to this
process. One is this bill, this legislation that's working through under the rules of
reconciliation, which is a fancy term to mean that there are only certain things that
you can do from a budgetary standpoint has to affect either spending or revenue.
There are things that you can't do in this bill, and those we plan on doing across
the horizon in phase two, which is the regulatory portion, and then in phase three,
which is another piece of legislation that would be going through the House and
the Senate with a majority -- supermajority in the Senate.
That process will incorporate all of the kinds of things that we believe are
absolutely necessary to reconstitute that individual and small-group market and to
get us in a position, again, where patients and families and docs are making these
decisions.
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Q Mr. Secretary, bearing in mind that the CBO score isn’t back yet, can you
guarantee that this plan will not have a markedly negative impact on deficit or
result in millions of Americans losing health insurance?
SECRETARY PRICE: What I can say is that the goal and the desire I know of the
individuals on the Hill is to make certain that this does not increase the cost to the
federal government.
Q Mr. Secretary, two elements of the bill. I have questions about how they control
costs and how they help with access. The Medicaid per-capita block grant through
the states, how is that sort of fundamentally different from the Obamacare regime
on Medicaid in terms of expanding access?
And then the second point, why doesn't this bill do away with the cost-sharing
community ratings regime that Obamacare had?
SECRETARY PRICE: So the per-capita cap, Medicaid, again, is a system that doesn't
work for patients. You’ve got folks out there who need care, who need to see
particular physicians who aren’t able to see them. All Americans should be
saddened by the situation that we have when there are patients out there that can't
get the care that they need. We believe one of the keys to providing appropriate
care in the Medicaid population is allowing the states to have the flexibility to
address that Medicaid population.
Remember, Medicaid population is four different demographic groups. It’s those
who are disabled, it’s those who are seniors, it’s healthy moms and kids, by and
large. Those are the four main demographic groups. And we, the federal
government, force states, mostly, to take care of those individuals in exactly the
same way. If you describe that to the folks back home on Main Street, they say,
that doesn't make any sense at all. You need a program that's different for the
healthy moms and kids to respond to their needs that's different than folks who are
disabled and seniors.
And so what we believe is appropriate is to say to the states, you know your
population best. You know best how to care for your vulnerable population. We're
going to watch you and make certain that you do so, but you know how to do that.
And that will decrease costs markedly in the Medicaid program. We're wasting
significant amounts of money -- not that folks are getting too much care, we're
wasting it because it’s inefficient and there’s significant abuse in the system.
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So in terms of the cost-sharing, I think that the cost-sharing measures are being
addressed. It's important that we run through that process. This is the process
where we felt the previous administration was spending money that they didn't
have the authority to spend, and Congress is working through that to make certain
that the rightful holders of the authority to spend money in this nation, which is the
Congress of the United States, exercises that authority.
Q How does the White House and you feel about the label “Trumpcare”?
SECRETARY PRICE: I'll let others provide a description for it. I prefer to call it
patient care. This is about patients at the end of the day. This isn't about
politicians. This isn't about insurance companies. This is about patients. And
patients in this nation, especially those in the individual and small-group market,
these are the folks.
I had the privilege of going to Cincinnati last week with the Vice President to a
small-business roundtable. And one of the business owners, one of the smallbusiness owners there, said he had 18 employees last year at this time. This year,
he has 15 employees -- not because he doesn't have the work, but because of the
cost of health coverage for those individuals forced him -- forced him -- to let three
people go.
Now, they're being forced to let three people go because the federal government
has put in place rules and regulations that make it virtually impossible for folks in
the individual and small-group market to provide coverage for their employees.
This is a system that's not working for people. So if we focus on the patients -- I'll
call it patient care. If you focus on the patients, we'll get to the right answer.
Q Mr. Secretary, a major complaint -- sorry -- a major complaint of conservatives
with phase one of the Obamacare repeal-and-replace is that it is missing a measure
that would allow healthcare to be sold across state lines. Now, the President said
this morning that that would be in either phase two or phase three. Is that
something that you believe the President could do through executive action, and
then you yourself could do? Or is that something that you believe has to be
addressed legislatively?
SECRETARY PRICE: There are different aspects to the purchase across state lines
that will allow individuals to gain, again, the kind of choices that they want. Some
of this might be able to be done from a regulatory or a rules standpoint. Some of it
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will require legislation, and that's where we're going to need the assistance of our
friends on the other side of the aisle.
The American people have demanded that they be able to purchase coverage
across state lines, purchase coverage that they want for themselves. So whether
it's through association health plans, which allows individuals who are in smallbusiness groups, like the fellow that I just mentioned, to pool together nationally to
be able to purchase coverage, or whether it's mom and dad, who don't gain
coverage through their employer through something called individual health pools
that allows folks to pool together solely for the purpose of purchasing coverage,
even though they're not otherwise economically aligned. That allows people -there are 18 million folks in that individual and small-group market. That would
allow those individuals to be able to purchase coverage and get the purchasing
power of millions. That's huge power and authority that we want to put in the
hands of people, that we want to put in the hands of patients. And some of that
may, in fact, require legislation.
Yes, sir.
Q Mr. Secretary, thank you. Two questions but first, Congressman John Faso of
New York has said that the issue of denying federal funds to Planned Parenthood
should be separate from whatever healthcare bill finally emerges from Congress
and is signed into law by the President. Is that the administration's position as
well?
And my second question is this. You mentioned earlier the people who had their
healthcare plans cancelled when they thought they could keep it. I believe in your
state of Georgia, more than a million people had that experience. Will some of the
plans that were cancelled be able to come back under the new healthcare plan?
SECRETARY PRICE: Yeah, in terms of Planned Parenthood, we think it's important
that the legislature work its will on this process. It's incredibly important that we
not violate anybody's conscience. We want to protect the conscience provisions
that exist. It's also important to appreciate that through community health
centers, the bill that's being proposed right now would allow greater access for
women to healthcare in greater numbers of facilities across this land. And they've
actually proposed more money for women's healthcare than currently exists. So I
think that they're working their best to address that issue.
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In terms of whether or not old plans that were available before might be available,
absolutely. And we believe that the opportunity to provide a robust market, robust
choices for individuals across this land will be secured. And, again, that's one of the
keys to bringing down the premium costs, of bringing down the cost for health
coverage. So we're excited about that and look forward to that coming to pass.
Q If the new plan calls for repealing the revenue-generating taxes and penalties
but keeping the entitlements, how is that sustainable?
SECRETARY PRICE: That's the work that somebody mentioned over here -- the
Congressional Budget Office score, and once the Congress receives that score, then
they'll be working through that to make certain that in fact it is fiscally responsible.
Imagine, if you would, however, a system where the incentives within the system
are all to drive down costs, to provide greater choices and competition for folks,
and respond to the specific needs of patients. And in so doing, what you do is
actually get a much more efficient system for the provision and the delivery of
healthcare. It's a system we don't have right now because the previous
administration felt that the government -- the federal government ought to do all of
this. And we've seen what came about when the federal government does all of
that -- that it’s increasing premiums, increasing deductibles, decreasing choices.
You've got a card that says you've got insurance, and you walk in, and you can't
afford what it is that's trying to -- for the doctor that's trying to take care of you.
So this is not a system that's working for folks in that individual and small-group
market and in the exchanges.
Q Mr. Secretary, many have complained that Obamacare resulted in higher wait
times in the emergency room. Will this new bill cause that? Have you have any idea
on that?
SECRETARY PRICE: One of the things that the previous administration said was that
they were going to be able to drive folks away from one of the most expensive areas
for the provision of healthcare, and that is the emergency rooms. In fact, they did
just the opposite. And much of that is because of, again, the rules and the
regulations that they put in place.
So from our perspective, we believe that if individuals are able to purchase the kind
of coverage that they want, then they'll have access to the kind of doctors and
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other providers that they desire, and won't need to be able to be seen in the
emergency room. They'll already have the care. Emergency rooms ought to be for
emergencies, not for the standard care that individuals tend to receive right now.
So we believe that if you put in place the right system, then emergency rooms and
emergency physicians will be able to have the opportunity to care for those
individuals that appropriately present to their department.
Q Mr. Secretary, I'm interested in following up on your comment that it's
important that no one vote on anything that violates their conscience. Federal
funding already can't be used for abortions, but are you saying that the
administration has a position on provision of birth control at these community
health centers? And secondly, is the administration looking to actively withhold
funding to Planned Parenthood if they continue to provide abortions, as has been
reported?
SECRETARY PRICE: We're working through all of those issues. As you know, many
of those were through the rule-making process and we're working through that. So
that's not a part of this piece of legislation right here.
Q But you don’t have a view on provision of birth control and access to it? When
you're talking about women's healthcare, which you brought up, and saying you
wanted to expand more community funding.
SECRETARY PRICE: Yeah, what we're doing, as I say, is working through the rules
and the regulations to see where the previous administration was, see how they did
it, and whether or not it needs to be addressed. With the understanding that what
we believe is important when we look at the rules and regulations is to define
whether or not that rule or regulation actually helps patients and decreases costs,
or harms patients and increases costs. If it does the latter, then we need to do
away it. If it does the former, then we ought to accentuate it.
Q What was the issue of conscience you were talking about? What was the issue
of conscience you were talking about then?
SECRETARY PRICE: To make certain that individuals in the market are not forced to
do things that violate their conscience.
Yes, sir.
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Q Secretary, thank you, sir. Common people and the small businesses have been
waiting for this new bill under President Trump. So any message, sir, for them?
SECRETARY PRICE: Well, I think that this is the culmination of years of work. It's
the culmination of years of concern and frustration by the American people. They
knew at the time that the previous bill -- the previous law passed that it wasn't
going to help them. They knew that costs were going to go up. In fact, we
predicted at the time that costs would go up and that access would go down. And
so this is the culmination of years of hard work by the electorate, by the citizens of
this country to say that we want a system, again, that respects patients and
families and doctors in these decisions.
One more.
Q Thank you, Mr. Secretary. The President tweeted out earlier today that he
believes that he’s working on a plan to have drug prices come down by spurring
competition. Can you tell us a little bit about what that plan is going to be, when it
might be rolled out? Is it part of these phases? And then the second question, the
bill also includes a tax break for insurance executives that make more than
$500,000. You said this is about patients. Why is that tax break important for this
legislation?
SECRETARY PRICE: To the latter, I'm not aware of that. I'll look into that.
Drug pricing is really important. So many individuals are now having significant
difficulty being able to afford the medications that they’ve been prescribed. And
it's not able to be addressed specifically in this phase one because it's not a
revenue or spending issue for the federal government. So it can't be in this phase
one.
But in phase two and three -- which may be concurrent along with this phase one -but in phase two and three, then we look forward to bringing solutions, to solve the
remarkable challenge that patients have across this line with the increase in pricing
of drugs.
I've got to run. You’ve got a guy right here who is going to answer all the rest of the
questions. Thank you so much. God bless you.
MR. SPICER: Thank you, Dr. Price.
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Let me just kind of continue on. The bottom line I think that the Secretary was
making is that Obamacare sought to cover 20 million people and in the process it
drove up costs for everybody, whether or not you were in the exchange or not.
Most people get their insurance through their employers. Older populations get
their healthcare through Medicare. Low-income populations get their healthcare
through Medicaid. And veterans get their insurance through TRICARE. So what
we're talking about here is a very defined amount of individuals that we’re trying to
address and not affect the entire system.
Obamacare turned our healthcare system on its head to address the pool of
individuals who don't fall into any of the buckets that I mentioned. Our plan that
we're talking about today with the House will ensure that those individuals receive
the care that they need if they want an affordable cost while not sending rates
skyrocketing.
Obamacare was an overcomplicated bill that served the special interests and not
the American people. These over 974 pages that were passed and then we were
told we had to read them are filled with carve-outs by over $1 billion of healthcarerelated lobbying that were spent on the year that Obamacare was crafted.
Our plan, in far fewer pages, 123 -- much smaller, much bigger -- so far we're at 57
for the repeal plan and 66 pages for the replacement portion. We'll undo this. And
remember, half of it, 57 of those pages, are the repeal part. So when you really get
down to it, our plan is 66 pages long, half of what we actually even have there.
We'll undo the massive disaster and replace it with a plan to return healthcare
back to the patient.
As the President outlined in his joint address, he expects five core principles to
guide Congress through this healthcare process. First, ensure that the American
people with preexisting conditions have access to coverage. Second, ensure a
stable transition for Americans currently enrolled in the exchanges. Third, provide
more equitable tax treatment through tax credits for people who already don't
receive tax-advantage healthcare from their employer. And I know -- something
that Secretary Price was talking about -- for the vast number of people who get
their insurance through their employer, they’re getting it tax free. They are not
taxed on that benefit, which is something that is not afforded to people who are in
the individual market who either run a small business or are sole proprietors.
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Fourth, we should expand the power of health savings accounts to return control to
Americans over their healthcare dollar and decisions. They should be able to
choose the plan they want, not the plan that's forced on them by government. And
finally, we should give our state governors the resources and flexibility they need
with Medicare to make sure that no one is left out.
This is the Obamacare replacement plan that everyone has been asking for, the
plan that the President ran on, and the plan that will ultimately save the system.
It's also a culmination of years of dedicated work and careful thought by
Republicans to find a replacement that will best undo the damage that's been
caused by Obamacare while ensuring that all Americans have peace of mind during
this stable transition period.
These are the principles for which conservatives have been fighting for for years.
President Trump looks forward to continuing the dialogue between the
administration and the Hill on saving the healthcare system.
What’s important to remember is that we’re not going to be able to do all of this on
one bill. As the Secretary mentioned, there are two other steps as well that allow us
to get more of the President's plan accomplished after we pass this first important,
major step.
The second piece is already underway, and that's what Secretary Price can do
through executive action. He has already rolled out a handful of important actions,
including the major marketplace stabilization regulation, to help bring stability to
the collapsing insurance market. He’ll continue to enact a number of policy
changes in the regulatory and administration space -- administrative space to
achieve what the first step cannot because of the nature of reconciliation.
The third piece of executing the President's healthcare plan is on -- requires 60
votes in legislation, maybe more depending on what we can do and when. That's
how we'll move forward on the policies of purchasing across state lines, lowering
drug prices -- that just came up -- and repealing any of Obamacare's premiumspiking insurance market distortions that can't be done through this current bill.
Also, yesterday, in addition to speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, the
President also had separate calls with Prime Minister of Japan, Abe, and South
Korea’s Acting President Hwang. During both of these calls the President reiterated
the United States’ ironclad commitment to stand with Japan and South Korea in
the face of the serious threat posed by North Korea.
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He also emphasized that the administration is taking steps to further enhance our
ability to deter and defend against North Korea’s ballistic missiles using a full range
of the United States’ military capabilities.
Moving on to today’s schedule. This morning, the President had a call with
President Kenyatta of Kenya. We’ll have a readout for that call soon, if it’s not
already out. The President and First Lady also announced the official reopening of
public tours here at the White House. You may have seen the President stop by to
surprise greet some of the first visitors on their tour. We’re looking forward to
welcoming the people back to -- the American people back what is affectionately
referred to as the “People’s House.”
We are the world’s only executive residence and office of head of state that also
serves as a museum free to the people. Visiting the White House is obviously an
experience that’s uniquely American, and we encourage guests of all ages to come
visit the White House, their house.
Also this morning, the Secretary of Commerce, Wilbur Ross, held a press conference
announcing that Chinese ZTE Corporation has agreed to a record-high, combined
criminal and civil penalty of $1.19 billion after the company illegally shipped
telecommunications equipment to Iran and North Korea in violation of sanctions.
This civil penalty is the largest ever imposed by the Commerce Department’s
Bureau of Industry and Security and, pending approval from a federal judge, the
combined penalties between the Commerce Department, the Department of
Justice, and the Department of Treasury would be the largest fine and forfeiture
ever levied by the U.S. government in such a case.
This settlement tells the world that the days of flouting the U.S. sanctions regime or
violating U.S. trade laws are over.
President Trump is committed to ending the disrespect of American laws and
American workers.
So back to the schedule for a second. This morning the President also received his
daily intelligence briefing. He had lunch with Senator Lindsey Graham of South
Carolina, who will continue to be an important partner as the President’s nominee
for Supreme Court, Judge Gorsuch, begins the confirmation process in the next
couple weeks.
At this moment, the President is leading a discussion on immigration with Senator
Cotton and Senator Perdue and members of White House senior staff. The
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President and the senators are expected to discuss the merit-based immigration
reforms that the President mentioned at last week’s joint address.
Later this afternoon, the President will lead a meeting with the House Deputy Whip
Team focused on repeal and replace of Obamacare. There will be a pool spray at
the top of that meeting. The gather time is 3:20 p.m. The President will also meet
with Richard Trumka, President of the AFL-CIO. They’re expected to discuss the
importance of investing in our country’s infrastructure and renegotiating trade
agreements like NAFTA. There will also be a pool spray at the top of that meeting,
and we’ll have further details on it.
This evening, the President will visit with a group of Boy Scouts who are in
Washington to participate in a near-century-old tradition of sharing scouting’s
achievement with key government officials. Looking ahead, I want to let you know
that the President will be welcoming at least two foreign leaders in the coming
weeks, and I expect additional announcements of additional leaders later. But first,
next week, Chancellor Merkel of Germany will visit the White House. And the
following week, the President will welcome Prime Minister al-Abadi of Iraq.
With that, I’ll kick it off with your questions. Jonathan Karl.
Q Sean, it’s been a full -MR. SPICER: Jonathan.
Q Thank you. (Laughter.) Sean, it’s been a full -MR. SPICER: You’re out of practice.
Q I know. (Laughter.) It’s been a full three days since the President said that
President Obama had his wires tapped, his phones tapped at Trump Tower. In
those three days, has the White House come up with any evidence whatsoever to
prove that allegation?
MR. SPICER: I addressed this multiple times yesterday. I think the President -- we
put out a statement on Sunday saying that we would have no further comment and
we were asking the House and the Senate intelligence committees to look into this
concern and report back.
Q Can’t the President just ask the FBI director if this happened? Has he asked
him?
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MR. SPICER: Look, I think -- no, the President has not. And I think that we’ve gone
back and forth with you guys -- I think there is clearly a role that Congress can play
in its oversight capabilities. They’ve made it very clear that they have the staff, the
resources and the process. I think that’s the appropriate place for this to handle. I
think if we were to start to get involved you would then write stories about how we
were getting involved.
So it’s a no-win situation. I think the smartest and most deliberative way to
address this situation is to ask the House and Senate intelligence committees who
are already in the process of looking into this to look into this and other leaks of
classified information that are troubling to our nation’s national security.
So, as the President said in the statement on Sunday, we believe that that
investigation, as well as the investigation of other classified leaks and other
important information that threatens our national security, be looked into by the
House and Senate intelligence committees, and then we encourage them to report
back.
Q Do you believe that President Obama ordered something like this?
MR. SPICER: I get that that’s a cute question to ask. My job is to represent the
President and to talk about what he’s doing and what he wants. And he has made
very clear what his goal is, what he would like to have happen. And so I’ll just leave
it at that. I think we’ve tried to play this game before. I’m not here to speak for
myself, I’m here to speak for the President of the United States and our
government.
Zeke.
Q Sean, one follow-up on what Secretary Price said earlier. I think he was asked
by John about whether the administration was willing to make a -- for the American
people right now who like their doctor or like their health insurance plan, is the
White House willing to make a commitment then today that when this replacement
bill is passed, if it passes, that they will at the end of that be able to keep their
doctor and keep their healthcare plan?
And secondly, just changing gears radically onto -- China overnight issued some
strong rhetoric promising consequences for the deployment of the THAAD missile
system to South Korea. If you could respond to that.
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MR. SPICER: So on the first piece, I think -- look, one of the things that’s important
to understand about this process that’s very different from when the Democrats did
it -- you’ll recall then-Speaker Pelosi said you’re going to have to read the bill to
know what’s in it. I think there’s a big difference.
This is the bill. It’s right here. It’s on the website. We’re going through regular
order. If you go to the House of Representatives website, Speaker Paul Ryan’s
website, it’s listed. Everybody can read it, and it’s going to go through what they
call regular order. We’re not jamming this down anybody’s throat. It’s going to go
through a committee process. All parties involved, all representatives in the House
will be able to have input into it.
I think that’s the way to conduct this process, is to do it to allow people to watch
the process happen in the committees, allow members of Congress to have their
input in it, to make amendments, to see that we get the best bill that achieves the
goal for the American people.
When it was done the last time, it was jammed down people’s throat, and look what
happened. You had 974 pages that people struggled to read afterwards and figure
out what had just gotten passed, and the consequences were, frankly, devastating.
So to your point about keeping your doctor, in a lot of cases you’ve lost your doctor
for a couple of reasons. One, they may not participate in the plan. They may not
take insurance at all anymore. Two, they may not take Medicaid -- or three, they
may not take Medicaid. And the list goes on and on about why they might not be
there -- or your plan, the plan that you got is no longer accessible.
As the Secretary mentioned, one-third of all counties in the United States no longer
take Medicaid -- or, excuse me, have only one plan that you can choose from. So
it’s a fact right now that you -- in most cases, you have no choice. In many cases,
you’ve lost that ability.
Our goal is to actually add more choice and more competition. Right now, the
government tells you, you must have this plan or you will pay a penalty, and within
this plan, here’s what you have to have. We’ve lost the element of choice and
competition in healthcare, and by bringing all of that back, I think there’s a higher
degree of likelihood that you’re going to get the plan that you want and you’re
going to get the doctor you want. Because it will be your choice, not the
government’s choice.
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And that’s a big, big difference. This plan was jammed down everybody’s throat,
and the consequences took their plans away, it took their doctors away, and it
drove up costs. This plan allows more competition, more people to enter it, and
the American people and patients to make a decision on what plan they want. If
they have a plan and a doctor they like, then they’re going to choose a plan that
allows them to continue with that doctor. But there’s going to be more
competition and more choice, not less. And that’s, frankly, what you have now.
With respect to China, I think I addressed this yesterday. We stand shoulder to
shoulder with Japan and South Korea in doing what we can to protect that region
in particular from an attack from North Korea. We understand the situation and we
continue to work with them. As I’ve mentioned, the President spoke to both
leaders yesterday. We provided a readout of those calls. But we obviously
understand the concerns of China, but -- this is a national security issue for them.
Hunter.
Q Thank you, Sean. How concerned is the President with the situation between
North Korea and Malaysia right now?
MR. SPICER: Well, as I said, I think we're very well aware of the -- what’s going on in
the region. The President obviously had a conversation with, in particular, the
leader -- the acting President of South Korea last night with respect to what’s going
on there. And again, I’ll refer that to the National Security Committee to give you
further -- Cheryl Bolen.
Q Thanks, Sean.
MR. SPICER: Cheryl. I know, sorry, I forgot you yesterday.
Q I appreciate it. So two questions. One on healthcare. If the CBO scores this bill
and it does not provide the amount of coverage that the Affordable Care Act did,
will the President still support it?
MR. SPICER: Well, I’m not going to get ahead -- Secretary Price mentioned this -let’s not get ahead of the CBO going through this. But I think, as I mentioned to
Zeke, one of the things that's important to understand there’s -- this is -- this bill
has to be done in the phases that it has to to address the repeal part of it, and the
replace part of it.
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There are only certain things that we can do through reconciliation. I know there’s
the regulatory piece that we can do through actions that the Secretary is
empowered to do, frankly, under Obamacare. And then third is an additional piece
of legislation that addresses things.
But there are cost-saving measures that -- and competition aspects of this that
have to be included in phase two or three because they're not allowed in the
reconciliation bill because of the nature of how reconciliation works on Capitol Hill.
So I think that one of the things that we have to understand is that how that score
comes out from the Congressional Budget Office will depend on whether they look
at it specifically with just a phase one or whether they look at it in its totality. But
I’m confident that if you look at what’s going on right now, Cheryl, it’s
unsustainable. Premiums in state after state, as Dr. Price mentioned, they're up 25
percent on average. Arizona is 116 percent. I think Oklahoma is the 50s. Minnesota
is in the 40s. This is unsustainable for a family to continue to pay the premiums
that they have and for individuals, small-business owners, et cetera.
So the question is, can we allow people to go on this trajectory where more and
more of their paycheck is getting eaten up in a plan that's, frankly, not giving them
choice, doctors, or plans that they want. This plan I think clearly achieves those
goals a lot better. It gets the price -- cost containment down. It gets price control
under it. And it allows doctors and plans to reengage in the marketplace, as they
were prior to this. And I think that is a major aspect of it.
Hold on. Cheryl waited.
Q Thank you. From yesterday, I had a nominations question. Is there something
that's preventing the White House from submitting the nominations of Sonny
Perdue for Agriculture and Alex Acosta for Labor?
MR. SPICER: I believe Alex Acosta was sent up to the Hill earlier today. We should
have an announcement officially out. So sometimes there’s a little bit of a lag. I
apologize between my office and -- but that one is up, and I’ll check on Sonny
Perdue. I think some of it is just in coordination with the Senate, so pardon my
time.
Q Thanks, Sean. I have two questions for you. First, will the President offer a
correction to his tweet this morning that states that 122 prisoners were released
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from Gitmo by the Obama administration and then returned to the battlefield? Can
you take that first?
MR. SPICER: Yes, I mean, obviously the President meant in totality the number that
had been released on the battlefield -- that have been released from Gitmo since -individuals have been released. So that is correct.
Q Then my second question. Is the White House concerned about this new
information that came out in WikiLeaks today that U.S. intelligence agencies are
potentially, purposely providing vulnerabilities to tech products here in the United
States?
MR. SPICER: I’m not going to comment on that. I think obviously that's something
that has not been fully evaluated, and if it was, I would not comment from here on
that.
Kevin.
Q Yes, Sean, I was going to ask about branding. The President in the past put his
name on buildings and different products. When it comes to healthcare, does the
White House feel that the bill presented today should be known as “Trumpcare”
from here on out? I know it was asked of the Secretary. And at what point do you
think that the transition should go away from Obamacare to the new
administration?
MR. SPICER: Well, as soon as it’s repealed we can get rid of that. I think that will
happen quickly.
And as Secretary Price mentioned, I think we're less concerned with labels right
now and more in terms of action and results. And I think that's what our focus has
been is getting that cost down, getting that choice back that we mentioned. Yeah.
Q Sean, DHS is reportedly considering separating families that cross the border
illegally. How does the President feel about that?
MR. SPICER: I’m going to -- that's a DHS matter. We don't get involved in either
Customs or ICE enforcement. So I think that's a question better reserved to both
DHS and ICE specifically.
Jim.
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Q Oh, thanks, Sean. On the Obamacare question, one of the criticisms on this is
that there is still a de facto individual mandate because it allows insurance
companies to increase premiums up to 30 percent of people -- if there’s a gap in
coverage. And I have one more.
MR. SPICER: Well, that's not -- the difference is under the current bill that's here, if
you don't buy insurance, you pay a fine. Under the current bill you don't have -there’s nothing that mandates you to buy insurance. That's up to an individual. So
by its very definition, it is not -- can't be considered that.
What’s your second one?
Q Well, you don't think it’s a de facto mandate in the sense of there’s a penalty -MR. SPICER: It can't be.
Q -- in place as there is now? Not by the government, but is by the insurance
companies.
MR. SPICER: Right. But there’s no -- I think you answered your own question on
that one.
Q I have one more.
MR. SPICER: Okay.
Q Another topic. The President has blamed the Democrats in the Senate for
blocking the Cabinet. Last Thursday, the Republicans actually called a recess early
-- adjourned on Thursday early. Previously they called a recess the week before.
Does the President have any plans to call for the Senate to remain in session and
the Congress to stay in session until they approve the nominees and maybe even
also repeal Obamacare?
MR. SPICER: This isn’t a Republican issue. I mean it’s not Republicans that are
playing beat the clock on a lot of these nominees. And we've discussed this since
the transition time. There were several nominees that, frankly, weren’t even
considered controversial by the standards of Senate Democratic leadership, and
yet have been held up over and over again. I don't think -- that's a very different
scenario than going back and being with constituents, which was on the Senate
schedule. So I don't think -- that's a synonymous thing.
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Do we have Michael Medved ready to go for a Skype question? Michael?
Q Yes, hello. Sean, thank you very much. Obviously, today there was a big
emphasis on Obamacare, which is profoundly important to the American people.
But it seems that too often in the last several weeks, the administration has gotten
distracted and media have gotten distracted by talk of wiretapping at Trump
Tower, or the President calling his predecessor a “bad” and “sick guy” or criticizing
the ratings of “Celebrity Apprentice.” Do you think the White House could do a
better job of focusing on the issues that really matter, the reforms that matter to
the American people rather than getting distracted to these subsidiary conflicts as
we move forward into the coming months?
MR. SPICER: Thanks, Michael. Respectfully, I would say that we have been focused.
We're here talking about Obamacare and the need to drive down the cost and
access for healthcare for every American. I think that's a pretty significant thing to
be focused on.
Yesterday, we were talking about the President’s effort to continue to keep the
nation safe, to make sure that people aren’t coming into the country who aren’t
here for peaceful purposes. The President has talked to almost 50 world leaders.
He’s had 30-plus executive actions on all sorts of stuff from regulatory aspects to
things that will create more jobs. I think that's a fairly focused effort.
That being said, I think, look, whether it was Candidate Trump, President-elect
Trump, or now President Trump, the President has always made it very clear -- or
not he made it clear, but I think the voters made it clear that one of the things that
they appreciate about him is his ability to be authentic and to speak very forcefully
and very directly with the American people. And that's an aspect that I think was
central to why he was elected, is because he’s not a canned politician that's going
to give the same staid answers over and over again.
Sara.
Q Going back to Fred’s question, conservatives have started to call this
“Obamacare Lite.” But President Trump has promised to fully repeal Obamacare,
but this bill leaves a lot of the structure of Obamacare intact. If this is the policy
that passes, is President Trump confident in the future he can say that he fully
repealed Obamacare?
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MR. SPICER: Yeah, absolutely. As I mentioned, the first half of the bill that we put
forward repeals it. There are three things, I mean -- each phase that we've talked
about, phase one, phase two, and phase three, there’s a repeal-and-replace aspect
in each one. But Republicans and conservatives have been talking about adding
competition and driving costs down for decades now, selling across state lines,
small-business pooling. All of those things have been part of conservative plans for
a long time. And I think instilling that competition in it, allowing more access -- I
think there is a big difference.
There is no -- we have for the longest time -- if you're a conservative, you think
about this right now that you have -- anyone who has an employer-based -- their
job comes from an employer that gives them healthcare, they're getting a subsidy.
They're getting a credit. They don't pay taxes on their healthcare, and their
employer doesn't either. That's a huge disadvantage to anyone who is a sole
proprietor or owns a small business.
And so, frankly, to allow the playing field to be leveled and allow small businesses,
which are, frankly, the job creators in this country, to allow entrepreneurs and selfstarters to get the same tax treatment that a Fortune 500 company gets you is a
very conservative principle.
And again, look, one of the things that's important, Sara, is for all of the people who
have concerns about this -- especially on the right -- look at the size. This is the
Democrats, this is us. You can't get any clearer in terms of this is government, this
is not.
And I think that part of the reason the visual is important is that when you actually
look at the difference, you realize this is what big government does. It crowds out
competition. It drives up prices. It stifles entrepreneurship and innovation.
Doctors leaving the markets. More and more people not taking Medicaid or
TRICARE. That should concern people. When you've got veterans that can't -because most of the time, Medicaid and TRICARE are tied together. So when you
have those systems not accepted by doctors, that means the lowest of our -- people
on the low-income scale and people who have served our country have fewer and
fewer choices. That alone should be a problem and concerning for many people.
But the premium spikes are another problem. Because again, even if you're in the
exchange, now you're seeing over and over again that happen. You're also seeing
young people decide that they’d rather just pay a penalty because the cost of those
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basic programs is out of reach for a lot of young people who are just entering the
job market.
But again, I think the greatest illustration of the differences in the approaches is
that size. Our bill, which is a tenth of the size, does repeal and replace in what their
bill just did in massive government bureaucracy. And that is a big difference.
Jim.
Q Just want to ask you -- I mean you had the Health and Human Services
Secretary out here, you just talked about this is the Republican bill, this is the
Democrat bill. Is that the President’s bill? Is that his healthcare bill?
Q That is a bill that we have worked with with Congress. We feel very good about
where it is. We are looking forward -- as I mentioned earlier, the President is
meeting with the Whip Team to encourage them to support it and to build it out. I
don't think -- and I'm not trying to be cute here -- but I think it's not his bill or their
bill. It's a bill that we have worked on with them together. We're very proud of
where it stands now.
The big difference, Jim, is that, unlike before, as I mentioned, when the Democrats
jammed it down people’s throat and said -- waited to get that 60th vote, with
Senator Kennedy still around, and then basically said, literally, you will have to wait
and see what it looks like before we passed it -- we not only posted it out there for
everybody to look at, but by sending it through regular order, not just putting it up
for a House vote, but sending it through the committee process, allows
Republicans, Democrats, and independents alike to offer up amendments and
suggestions. And the House will work its will.
Now, we will continue to give guidance and thoughts and suggestions. But I think
the President’s core principles are what’s going to guide us as we head through the
Hill and then -- the House and then to the Senate.
Q And just one quick follow-up on Jonathan Karl’s question, because the
President made a very serious allegation over the weekend, and I think we would
all be remiss if we went through this briefing and not tried to get you on camera to
at least offer us some evidence. Where is the evidence, where is the proof that
President Obama bugged President Trump?
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MR. SPICER: Well, I answered this question yesterday on camera on your air. So
just so we're clear -- I know this is now -- it will be twice. But I think I made it clear
yesterday -Q But since yesterday, since yesterday -MR. SPICER: Nothing has changed.
Q -- is there any new proof -MR. SPICER: No. And it's not a question of new proof or less proof, or whatever.
The answer is the same, which is that I think that there is a concern about what
happened in the 2016 election. The House and Senate intelligence committees
have the staff and the capabilities and the processes in place to look at this in a way
that's objective. And that's where it should be done. And, frankly, if you’ve seen
the response from -- especially on the House side, but as well as the Senate, they
welcome this.
And so let’s let the Senate do their job and the House -- excuse me -- intelligence
committees, and then report back to the American people.
Q Will the President withdraw the accusation? Does he have any -MR. SPICER: Why would he withdraw it until it's adjudicated? That's what we're
asking, is for them to look at this and see if there is -Q No regrets with him about raising this accusation?
MR. SPICER: No. Absolutely not. And I think that what he wants them to do is to
look into wiretapping, other surveillance, and again, as I mentioned before, the
other leaks that are threatening our national security. You're seeing the leaks
happen over and over again that come out throughout the administration,
throughout government, and undermine national security. And I think the
appropriate thing to do is to ask the House and the Senate to look into it.
Glenn Thrush.
Q To follow up on a follow-up, in terms of -- you were given the opportunity on air
to say whether or not the President still supported Director Comey. Does the
President support Director Comey? And I have a quick follow-up.
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MR. SPICER: I have no reason to believe he doesn’t. He has not suggested that to
me. So now to the non-follow-up to the -Q Have you seen any evidence yourself? Has the evidence been shared with you
or other senior members of the President’s staff as to why he made this particular
accusation?
MR. SPICER: As far as me, no. I'm not in a position that that would be regularly part
of my daily duties for the President to sit down and go through that. That's
probably a level above my pay grade. But as I’ve mentioned, I think the President
believes that the appropriate place for this to be adjudicated is for the House and
Senate intelligence committees who have the clearances, the staff, the processes,
to go through this, look at it and report back.
Q Did he share it with -MR. SPICER: I'm not going to get in -- as the President made very clear, Glenn -Q -- with his National Security Advisor?
MR. SPICER: As the President said in the statement that he issued on Sunday, we're
not going to have further comment on this until this matter is resolved.
Yes.
Q Two quick questions. So just to follow up on the follow-up. So does the White
House feel that it's appropriate -- you say that you want it to be adjudicated by the
congressional committees, but the President made declarative statements on
Twitter.
MR. SPICER: Right.
Q So I guess, is the White House position that the President can make declarative
statements about a former President basically committing a crime and then the
congressional committees should look into that and basically prove it? I mean,
how does that exactly -MR. SPICER: I take issue with -- it's not a question of “prove it.” I think as I said,
now, five times to a follow-up to a follow-up, that it's not a question of “prove it.”
It's that they have the resources and the clearances and the staff to fully and
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thoroughly and comprehensively investigate this and then issue a report as to what
their findings are.
Q But President Trump’s Twitter statement shouldn’t be taken at face value about
what -MR. SPICER: Sure it should. Of course, it -- I mean, why
-- no. There’s nothing -- as I mentioned to Jim, it's not that he’s walking anything
back or regretting. He’s just saying that they have the appropriate venue and
capabilities to review this.
Margaret. I'm sorry.
Q So on the Obamacare replacement, so you said that it will be in phases and that
you're going to need additional legislation. So just to clarify, are the cost savings
that you guys are projecting, is that dependent on phase three of the national
competition plan? Because if that’s the case then --
MR. SPICER: Yeah, well, it's not dependent. I think that in order to see it fully come
to fruition, yeah, you have to see all parts of it. But the way that it was passed
doesn't allow for -- the way that it was passed is almost the same way that we're
going through this now, which is they pass certain things, then the Secretary of
Health and Human Services, at the time, was granted significant regulatory
authority that allowed her to do certain things at the time to implement pieces of
Obamacare that we now have to act backwards and go almost in the same steps to
do what they did to lay it out. We've got to repeal it, and then we've got to replace
it with the plan that's going to do the same.
Certain things can be done in the same way and certain things can't. It just -- it
literally depends on how that was done.
John Frederick.
Q Sean, in the replacement plan, it says that the states that accepted the
Medicare expansion money would continue to be funded. So what is the message
you have to Republican state legislators that thought they were fiscally responsible
in rejecting Medicaid expansion in their states and now they didn't get the federal
dollars on either end? What is your response to them?
MR. SPICER: I think what we need to do is to make sure, as the President said in his
statements, as Secretary Price did, we've got to make sure that we continue to
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protect people through this transition process. Let the bill work its way. But this is
the first time -- as we address the Medicaid portion of this, this is probably the first
time that we've really addressed an entitlement aspect of something in almost 30
years. So I think we've got to let this piece of it work its way through the House.
But there is -- remember, one of the things that happened through the Medicaid
expansion was the goal has always been about Medicaid to help people who were
disabled or poor or met a specific number of criteria. For the first time in
Obamacare, we expanded Obamacare -- or the Obama administration did, rather -to able-bodied individuals that -- in a way that had never been done before, and it
was not a specific class. That's led largely to the ballooning cost.
I think a lot of the reforms that will be contained in this bill will address that, but I
think we've got to let it work its will through the process.
Alexis.
Q Sean, I want to ask you two communications questions on two topics. Because
the President gave himself a middling grade on communication, let me ask you
about the experience that the previous administration had when Obamacare was
going through its own phases. The President -- President Obama said that the
opposition to the legislation was able to seize the opportunity while it was being
legislated to create public perceptions about what was in the legislation. So my
question is on ACA. What is the President going to do to improve his
communications, to be out there, explaining what is in the bill, to work with
lawmakers? That's the first question. And then I'll ask you the next one.
MR. SPICER: Okay, thank you. So on the first one, as I’ve mentioned, he’s had and
continues to have significant outreach to members of Congress. He's talked to
health insurers. I mean, I think we've read out a lot of the activities of the last
couple weeks. And literally, in just -- within an hour, he's going to sit down with the
House Deputy Whip Team to talk about the legislative piece of this in the House.
So this is going to be a very aggressive, laser-like focus of this administration over
the next month or two to get this thing through the House and then moved over to
the Senate. But there's a big difference, Alexis. What we're doing is vastly different.
They were expanding government, promising people something. And I think
what's happened is there was a lot of difference with how they approach it.
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Right now, the American people, no matter where you are, you understand the
state of your healthcare, the costs that you're seeing and the lack of choice that
you've now been presented with. And in many cases, you realize that when you go
in to see the doctor or a loved one is going to see a doctor that they're not getting -they're not either able to get in, they're not taking the Medicare or the exchange
insurance that they got, the costs are going out of control.
And I think it's really interesting -- I mean, one of the things that Dr. Price
mentioned that is so apropos of this is, having a card does not mean you have
insurance. It's like handing someone a blank check -- it doesn't mean that you have
money, it means you have a check. And I think what we've seen over the last few
years with Obamacare is you can have an insurance card, but that doesn't mean
someone is going to take it, and it sure doesn't mean that it's going to be
affordable. And there's a big difference between having a card and having
healthcare that's affordable. And that's the difference that we're trying to solve
right now.
So when it comes to communication, I think one of the things that's really helpful is
that part of the sell is done for us. The American people understand the state of
their healthcare. They understand how much they're paying for. They've gone to
see a doctor or gone to a hospital or had a notice from their carrier saying we are no
longer part of this, or their employer says, hey, whatever your particular carrier is, is
no longer available, we're switching you into this.
And so for so many Americans, healthcare is a very, very real part of their daily
experience because they're caring for themselves, they're dealing with an ailment,
or dealing with children or a loved one or someone else in their family where
they're seeing, firsthand, the devastation and disaster that Obamacare has caused
them in their personal life.
So I think there's a welcoming of this effort and I think it's a lot easier for us to go in
-- because we don't have to explain the problem. People are living it. And I think
for them to understand what we're giving you is more choice, greater competition.
We're incentivizing more people to be part of the process, and we're going to be
driving down the cost of those premiums.
You had a second.
Q My second question on communications has to do with the President's
assertion about the wiretapping. Because the White House wants this now to be
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handled by the legislative branch, and in confidence and in classification, can we
count on the President to, himself, while this investigation is going on, to cease and
desist using Twitter or any other public venue to make accusations that are in
public but he will not respond to in public?
MR. SPICER: With respect to this particular situation? I'll ask that and I'll get back
to you on that.
John Gizzi.
Q Thank you, Sean. Just getting back to the question about if one likes his or her
healthcare, they can keep it. In 2013, Congressman Fred Upton, then Chairman of
the House Energy Committee, offered legislation that put precisely those words
into law and it received the votes of every Republican member in the House and
between 40 and 50 Democrats, and then it died in the Senate. Would the
administration support a revival of the Upton Amendment? In other words, putting
the right to keep one's healthcare plan and doctor if he or she liked it, today?
MR. SPICER: I mean, I think that's the goal. I don't want to start talking about what
we're going to -- as we go through the process. We've now put our stamp on this
and sent it to the House. It will work its will as amendments come up through
regular order. Our team will weigh in on those with their staff and, again, the
President is meeting with the Whip Team today.
I don't want to start saying we're going to support this amendment or that
amendment now, but I think generally speaking, obviously the goal is to make sure
that people get a plan that they like that's affordable, that meets what they need to
have met, that they shouldn't have to have a one-size-fits-all, government-instilled
healthcare system that doesn't offer any choice or, frankly, isn't tailored to the
needs that they have. I think that's an important thing.
John.
Q Sean, right now you're two votes short of passing repeal-and-replace in the
Senate because you've got four Republican senators who are saying they can't
support the bill because of rolling back the Medicaid expansion. What do you say
to those senators who are very concerned that people will lose coverage that this
does not provide enough stability for those people who rely on Medicaid for their
healthcare?
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MR. SPICER: Well, there's two things, John. One is, we're at day one. We're going
to go through the House first, so we've got a little bit of time. And I think as we go
through that process, these senators -- and not just the additional two but I think
and hope that we'll get additional ones -- they recognize that those people, as I've
said over and over again here -- if we do nothing, they're going to be in a very, very
worse scenario than they are now.
More and more people -- if you're on Medicaid, which serves so many low-income
Americans, as I mentioned, they have a card. And that card does not allow them to
go to doctor after doctor who are saying, we're not going to take Medicaid or
TRICARE anymore.
So I would ask those senators, what are you doing to help us work on a bill that will
get them insured again? Because for too many Americans, they've got a card, but
they don't have insurance. And I think that's a very, very big thing to -- a distinction
to make.
They're the ones who have the problem right now. They've got a Medicaid card and
nowhere to go. And what we need to do is to make sure that low-income
Americans, veterans, small business owners, individuals who desperately need
healthcare have options and affordability.
Q One other piece of this. You could bring down the cost of the insurance itself
through efficiencies in the system, selling across state lines. But the biggest driver
of the increase in health insurance cost is the skyrocketing cost of medicine. What
in this overall plan do you propose to do to either cap the rise or even bring it
down?
MR. SPICER: Well, I think you -- the Secretary mentioned this, but I mean, the cost
of prescription drugs is --
Q That's one small --
MR. SPICER: No, it's not. It's a big factor. I think that --
Q But when you're paying $50,000 out of pocket to get a stent? I mean, it's --
MR. SPICER: Again, what is the biggest thing missing --
Q -- but it's getting out of control.
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MR. SPICER: Fair enough, but --
Q Fair enough, drugs is one part of it but -- huge other part of it.
MR. SPICER: Okay, when you talk about procedures or drugs, the biggest thing
that's missing in this whole equation is competition. I mean, we're down to one
plan in many places. There's nothing for these places to compete --
Q There’s plenty of competition between hospitals.
MR. SPICER: No, there's -- I mean, that's fine, but if they know they're going to get
the same reimbursement rate, if they know that there's no other options, that plans
aren't trying to get people -- then that's a big difference. Right now, there's a lack
of competition in the industry.
And I think one of the President's -- I get it may be one part of that, but you're right,
that all-over medicine -- procedures and such -- there's a reason he met with drug
executives and talked about getting those costs down; that there's a multi-faceted
approach, and how do we instill competition, how do we drive down costs?
But you're right, we've got to do more to get the cost of that down, of the
procedures to allow additional options. Everything that is -- it's the same way that,
again -- think about your insurance. One of the things that was driving up cost in
the past was people were exercising the option of going to an emergency room over
and over again for their primary care. And what happened is that you saw all of
these "clinics" pop up from around and insurance carriers actually made it cheaper
in terms of co-pays to go see that than an emergency room, driving people to
somewhere that didn't continue to drive up cost, clog insurance. That competition
alone starts saving the plans money and helping to keep cost down. We've got to
instill more aspects of competition in medicine.
Jennifer.
Q Sean, can you give us an update on the effort to roll back regulations? Have the
taskforce -- regulatory reform taskforces identified any regulations to roll back?
And have any actually been repealed?
MR. SPICER: I think that they have had their work cut out for them. They’ve started
as they -- the President has met with different industries and companies,
corporations, associations. That is a constant subject of discussion, which is those
regulatory aspects of our economy that are keeping companies from growing,
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expanding and hiring. And so I know that the domestic policy team and others
have been working on that. And if I can get further updates on specific legislation
or, excuse me, specific regulatory action, I'll get back to you.
Hallie.
Q Thanks, Sean. Two topics for you. I'm trying to get some clarity on something
that my colleagues have tried to follow up on as well. You've said that the
President stands by his tweets Saturday morning that President Obama ordered
this wiretap. You've also said that the administration wants Congress -- let me just
be clear -- he found out this information. You've also said that the President wants
Congress to investigate. Some members of Congress, by the way, have asked the
White House and asked the President to come forward with that information. So
bottom line, why would the President want Congress to investigate for information
he already has?
MR. SPICER: I think there's a separation-of-powers aspect here as I mentioned to
Jonathan that we think it's --
Q Talk about resources and time -- why waste that?
MR. SPICER: Well, it's not a question of waste it. It's a question of appropriateness.
Q But if the President has the info, Sean -- and I guess that's what I'm trying to get
to -- if he's sitting on this information that he found out, he's now directing or
asking or recommending that the intelligence committees look into this. And you
talked about they have resources and staff, which they do, but why expend those
resources and staff if the President found out this information and has it?
MR. SPICER: I think there's a difference between directing the Department of
Justice, which may be involved in an ongoing investigation, and asking Congress as
a separate body to look into something and add credibility to the look -- adds an
element that wouldn't necessarily be there if we were directing the Department of
Justice, for example. But again, I think we've made it very clear how he wants this
done and where we go from there.
Q Second question then. Millions of Americans are working on their tax returns
right now. Will the President commit to releasing his tax returns for this year and is
he still under audit for his past returns?
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MR. SPICER: My understanding is he's still under audit and I'll follow up on the
question.
Q Question and quick follow-up. How do you understand what we've seen on the
growing number of cases at the Canadian border of Canadians born and raised in
Canada with valid passports being stopped at the border and told just to go back?
They won't let them come in and -- in the U.S.
MR. SPICER: I'm not aware of that. I think that's something that probably should
be addressed to the Department of Homeland Security.
Q Do you think there might be a misunderstanding of the messages sent on the
immigration -MR. SPICER: I don't know. I think it's a good question that is probably best directed
towards the Department of Homeland Security.
Dr. Swan.
Q Thank you. Is the White House going to keep its promise to withdraw from the
Paris climate agreement? And our understanding is that there is some divisions of
opinion -- Rex Tillerson wants to stay in; Steve Bannon wants to get out. What’s
going on? Will you keep the promise? If not, why not?
MR. SPICER: I think that's something I'd be glad to follow up with you and
everyone. I don't have anything on that right now. I'm aware of the discussion of it,
so let me -- if I can, I'll get back to you
Mike.
Q I have an unrelated question, but I also want to follow up on something -MR. SPICER: Unrelated questions are my favorite. (Laughter.)
Q You talked about the communications strategy. Will the President play a public
role in selling this bill? Will he speak to the public about it? Will he answer
questions about it?
MR. SPICER: That's a good question. I think that we are going to have a very
comprehensive strategy. As I mentioned, just a few minutes from now the
President is going to engage with members of the House Whip Team to talk to
them.
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Q -- talking to members of Congress.
MR. SPICER: I understand that, but -- and I understand that. This is step one.
There’s a lot of time -- as I mentioned, we expect to be dealing with this for the next
several weeks. There will be plenty of opportunities for the President to speak
about that, to engage with the public. But it's going to be a comprehensive plan
that we will discuss.
We had I can't even begin to tell you how many administration folks, members of
Congress flooding the broadcast and radio airwaves today, both nationally and in
local markets. We were very, very active throughout the country getting out the
word on what we're doing and why we're doing it, from national broadcast shows
to cable to -- I mean, to radio. We had a very, very aggressive start to this effort.
We're working with the House, in particular. We’re continuing to start really
engaging with the Senate.
But this is going to be a comprehensive effort, working with the House and the
Senate, to get this thing done, and other partners -- doctors and outside groups
that share this concern. As I mentioned earlier to one of the other folks, there’s a
need by companies and corporations who are feeling the weight of additional cost
to join us in this effort. And I just want -- this is obviously something that needs to
get dealt with. The escalating costs are having a significant impact not just on our
economy, but on the ability of people to get hired, or, frankly, people who are hired
leave their job because the cost of healthcare is not allowing especially people in
the small- and medium-sized businesses to keep up with those costs.
With that, thank you guys very much. I look forward to seeing you -Q -- meeting tomorrow -- congressmen coming to the meeting with the President.
MR. SPICER: We'll have a readout -Q Sean, I have that unrelated question, which was -MR. SPICER: I’m sorry. That's not fair. Mike gets his unrelated question.
Q And answer mine after that, please.
Q Will the Trump administration continue the Obama administration’s practice of
releasing publicly the visitor logs?
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MR. SPICER: We're currently evaluating our procedures on that and we'll have
some -- and when we have an announcement I'll let you know.
And, April, I'll have a readout on our schedule for tomorrow later.
Q He’s meeting tomorrow with -MR. SPICER: Once it's confirmed, I will let you know first, and then everybody else.
Thank you, guys. Have a great day.
END
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Second Amended
Complaint Exhibit 41
March 10, 2017
The Honorable Donald J. Trump
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, D.C. 20050
Dear Mr. President,
We have worked for years, under both Democratic and Republican administrations, to protect America’s
national security. We are deeply concerned that the March 6, 2017 executive order halting refugee
resettlement and suspending visa issuance and travel from six Muslim-majority countries will, like the
prior version, weaken U.S. national security and undermine U.S. global leadership. The United States
faces serious threats from terrorist networks and must take all prudent and effective steps to combat
them, including the appropriate vetting of travelers to the United States. But the recent order suffers
from the same core substantive defects as the previous version.
The revised executive order will jeopardize our relationships with allies and partners on whom we rely
for vital counterterrorism cooperation and information-sharing. To Muslims— including those victimized
by or fighting against ISIS—it will send a message that reinforces the propaganda of ISIS and other
extremist groups, that falsely claim the United States is at war with Islam. Welcoming Muslim refugees
and travelers, by contrast, exposes the lies of terrorists and counters their warped vision.
We must remain vigilant to keep our nation safe from terrorists, whether foreign or homegrown. At the
same time, we must remain true to our ideals. These are not mutually exclusive goals. In fact,
resettlement initiatives advance U.S. national security interests by protecting the stability of U.S. allies
and partners struggling to host large numbers of refugees.
Following the 9/11 attacks, the United States developed a rigorous system of security vetting for
travelers to our homeland, leveraging the full capabilities of the intelligence and law enforcement
communities. Since then, the U.S. has added enhanced vetting procedures for travelers and has revised
them continuously. Our government applies this process to travelers not once, but multiple times.
Refugees are vetted more intensively than any other category of traveler. They are screened by national
intelligence agencies and INTERPOL, their fingerprints and other biometric data are checked against
terrorist and criminal databases, and they are interviewed several times. These processes undergo
review on an ongoing basis to ensure that the most updated and rigorous measures are applied, and any
additional enhancements can be added without halting refugee resettlement or banning people from
certain countries.
We welcome the removal of Iraq from the 90-day travel ban, but we remain concerned that the Iraqis
who risked their lives to work with the U.S. military, U.S. government and other U.S. organizations will
be left in harm’s way for even longer due to the order’s 120-day suspension of the U.S. Refugee
Admissions Program and overall reduction in refugee admissions. These individuals were given priority
access to U.S. resettlement under the Refugee Crisis in Iraq Act, but their resettlement, like that of many
Page 1 of 8
other vetted refugees, will now likely be delayed as security clearances and other approvals expire,
adding many more months onto their processing. The United States has a moral obligation to protect
these allies.
Bans like those included in this order are harmful to U.S. national security and beneath the dignity of our
great nation. Further, the order’s drastic reduction in the number of refugees to be resettled in this
fiscal year after the 120-day moratorium weakens this country’s ability to provide global leadership and
jeopardizes our national security interests by failing to support the stability of our allies that are
struggling to host large numbers of refugees. America’s much-admired compassion and openness are
sources not of weakness but strength. These qualities accord with the ideals on which our nation was
founded, and on which our greatness rests.
The revised executive order is damaging to the strategic and national security interests of the United
States. We urge that, in moving forward, the United States: ensure any vetting enhancements are
necessary, non-discriminatory and otherwise consistent with the U.S. Constitution; implement any
necessary enhancements without a counterproductive ban or suspension on entry of nationals of
particular countries or religions; and immediately restart a strong non-discriminatory refugee
resettlement initiative, which will in turn advance U.S. global leadership and national security
interests.
We firmly believe that these steps will strengthen U.S. national security and appreciate your attention to
the concerns we raise in this letter.
Sincerely,
(names in alphabetical order)
Wally Adeyemo
Former Deputy Assistant to the President and
Deputy National Security Advisor for International
Economics
Christopher Le Mon
Former Special Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
Dr. Madeleine K. Albright
Former Secretary of State
Marcel Lettre
Former Under Secretary of Defense for
Intelligence
Steven L. Arnold
Lieutenant General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
George Little
Former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public
Affairs
Alyssa Ayres
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
South Asia
Albert J. Madora
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Jeremy Bash
Former Chief of Staff,
Department of Defense
Kelly Magsamen
Former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of
Defense for Asian and Pacific Security Affairs
Page 2 of 8
Rand Beers
Former Acting Secretary of the Department of
Homeland Security
Thomas Malinowski
Former Assistant Secretary of State for
Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
Daniel Benjamin
Former Coordinator for Counterterrorism,
Department of State
Robert Malley
Former Special Assistant to the President and
White House Coordinator for the Middle East,
North Africa, and the Persian Gulf Region
Rob Berschinski
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
Brian McKeon
Former Acting Under Secretary of Defense for
Policy
Nisha Biswal
Former Assistant Secretary of State for South and
Central Asian Affairs
Pete McCloskey, Jr.
U.S. Congressman, 1967-1983
11th, 17th, and 12th Congressional Districts of CA
Jarrett Blanc
Former Deputy Special Representative to
Afghanistan and Pakistan
John McLaughlin
Former Deputy Director and Acting Director of
Central Intelligence Agency
Charles Blanchard
Former General Counsel
U.S. Air Force
Philip McNamara
Former Assistant Secretary for Partnerships and
Engagement, Department of Homeland Security
Antony Blinken
Former Deputy Secretary of State
Bernadette Meehan
Former Special Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
Max Boot
Jeane J. Kirkpatrick Senior Fellow in National
Security Studies
Council on Foreign Relations
Sarah Mendelson
Former Ambassador to the Economic and Social
Council, United Nations
David M. Brahms
Brigadier General
U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.)
James Miller
Former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy
Michael Breen
Retired United States Army Officer
Lisa Monaco
Former Assistant to President for Homeland
Security and Counterterrorism and Deputy
National Security Advisor
Page 3 of 8
Rosa Brooks
Former Counselor to Under Secretary of Defense
for Policy
Alberto Mora
Former General Counsel, Department of the Navy
Ambassador (ret.) Nicholas Burns
Former Under Secretary of State for Political
Affairs, Ambassador to NATO and to Greece
Janet Napolitano
Former Secretary of the Department of
Homeland Security
Ambassador William J. Burns
Former Deputy Secretary of State
William L. Nash
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Luis C.deBaca
Former Ambassador at Large to Monitor and
Combat Trafficking in Persons
Thomas Nides
Former Deputy Secretary of State for
Management and Resources
Michael Carpenter
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Russia, Ukraine, Eurasia
Michael P. Noonan
U.S. Army Veteran
Director of Research, Foreign Policy Research
Institute
Derek Chollet
Former Assistant Secretary of Defense for
International Security Affairs
Suzanne Nossel
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
International Organizations Affairs
Richard Clarke
Former National Coordinator for Security,
Infrastructure Protection and Counterterrorism
for the U.S.
James C. O’Brien
Former Special Envoy for Hostage Recovery
David Cohen
Former Deputy Director, Central Intelligence
Agency
Matthew Olsen
Former Director of the National Counterterrorism
Center
Bathsheba Crocker
Former Assistant Secretary of State for
International Organization Affairs
Rick Olson
Former Special Representative for Afghanistan
and Pakistan
Ryan C. Crocker
Former U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon, Kuwait,
Syria, Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan
Charles Otstott
Lieutenant General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
James P. Cullen
Brigadier General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Eric Pelofsky
Former Special Assistant to the President and
Senior Director for North Africa and Yemen
Page 4 of 8
Mary DeRosa
Former Deputy Counsel to the President for
National Security Affairs
Gale Pollock
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Daniel Drezner
Professor
Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy
Amy Pope
Former Deputy Homeland Security Advisor and
Deputy Assistant to the President for National
Security Affairs
Paul D. Eaton
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Michael Posner
Former Assistant Secretary of State for
Democracy, Human Rights and Labor
Mari K. Eder
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Samantha Power
Former United States Ambassador to the United
Nations
Brian Egan
Former Legal Adviser
U.S. State Department
Jeffrey Prescott
Former Senior Director for Iran, Iraq, Syria, and
the Gulf States, National Security Council
Evelyn Farkas
Former Executive Director, Commission on the
Prevention of WMD Proliferation and Terrorism
Ned Price
Former Special Assistant to the President and
National Security Council Spokesperson
Daniel Feldman
Former Special Representative for Afghanistan
and Pakistan
Dafna Rand
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
Steve Feldstein
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
William D. Razz Waff
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Jose W. Fernandez
Former Assistant Secretary of State for Economic,
Energy, and Business Affairs
Susan Rice
Former National Security Advisor to the President
of the U.S.
Jonathan Finer
Former Director of Policy Planning, Department of
State
Bill Richardson
Former Governor of New Mexico and United
States Ambassador to the United Nations
Michele Flournoy
Former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy
Leon Rodriguez
Former Director, U.S. Citizenship and
Immigration Services
Page 5 of 8
Eugene Fox
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Laura Rosenberger
Former Chief of Staff to the Deputy Secretary of
State
Danielle Garbe
Former Director for Lebanon and Jordan, National
Security Council
Tommy Ross
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Security Cooperation
Dennis P. Geoghan
Brigadier General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Murray G. Sagsveen
Brigadier General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Suzy George
Former Deputy Assistant to the President, Chief of
Staff and Executive Secretary, National Security
Council
Eric Schwartz
Former Assistant Secretary of State for
Population, Refugees, and Migration
F. Stephen Glass
Rear Admiral, JAGC
U.S. Navy (Ret.)
Norman R. Seip
Lieutenant General
U.S. Air Force (Ret.)
Rachel Goldbrenner
Former Senior Policy Advisor to the U.S.
Ambassador to the United Nations
Wendy Sherman
Former Under Secretary of State for Political
Affairs
Mary Beth Goodman
Former Special Assistant to the President for
Development and Democracy
Vikram Singh
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
South and Southeast Asia
Philip Gordon
Former Special Assistant to the President and
White House Coordinator for the Middle East,
North Africa, and the Persian Gulf Region
Elissa Slotkin
Former Acting Assistant Secretary of Defense for
International Security Affairs
Wilton Scott Gorske
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Jeff Smith
Former General Counsel, Central Intelligence
Agency
Donald J. Guter
Rear Admiral, JACG
U.S. Navy (Ret.)
Julianne “Julie” Smith
Former Deputy National Security Advisor to the
Vice President of the United States
Ziad Haider
Former Special Representative for Commercial
and Business Affairs, U.S. Department of State
Tara Sonenshine
Former Under Secretary of State for Public
Diplomacy and Public Affairs
Page 6 of 8
Irv Halter
Major General
U.S. Air Force (Ret.)
Matthew Spence
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Middle East Policy
Lee H. Hamilton
U.S. Congressman, 1965-1999
9th Congressional District of IN
James Steinberg
Former Deputy Secretary of State
Keith Harper
Former Ambassador to the United Nations Human
Rights Council
Nik Steinberg
Former Counselor to the U.S. Permanent
Representative to the United Nations
Luke Hartig
Former Senior Director for Counterterrorism
National Security Council
Seth M.M. Stodder
Former Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security
for Border, Immigration & Trade Policy
Caitlin Hayden
Former National Security Council Spokesperson
Jake Sullivan
Former National Security Advisor to the Vice
President of the U.S.
Leif H. Hendrickson
Brigadier General
U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.)
Timothy S. Sullivan
Rear Admiral
U.S. Coast Guard (Ret.)
Heather Higginbottom
Former Deputy Secretary of State for
Management and Resources
Antonio M. Taguba
Major General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
John D. Hutson
Rear Admiral, JACG
U.S. Navy (Ret.)
Jim Townsend
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
European and NATO Policy
David. R. Irvine
Brigadier General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Michael G. Vickers
Former Under Secretary of Defense for
Intelligence
John H. Johns
Brigadier General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
David Wade
Former Chief of Staff,
Department of State
Colin Kahl
Former National Security Advisor to the Vice
President of the United States
William Wechsler
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for
Counterterrorism and Special Operations
Page 7 of 8
Gil Kerlikowske
Former Commissioner, United States Customs and
Border Protection
Moira Whelan
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
Public Affairs
John Kerry
Former Secretary of State
Catherine Wiesner
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State,
Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration
Jeremy Konyndyk
Former Director, Office of U.S. Foreign Disaster
Assistance, USAID
Douglas Wilson
Former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public
Affairs
Charles Kupchan
Former Special Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
Tamara Cofman Wittes
Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
Near Eastern Affairs
Mark P. Lagon
Former U.S. Ambassador-at-Large to Combat
Trafficking in Persons
Jon Brook Wolfsthal
Former Special Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
Jonathan Lee
Former Deputy Chief of Staff,
Department of Homeland Security
Lee Wolosky
Former Special Envoy for Guantanamo Closure
Michael R. Lehnert
Major General
U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.)
Tom Wyler
Former Counselor to the Secretary of Commerce
and Senior Advisor for International Economics
Paul N. Lekas
Former Deputy General Counsel for Legal Counsel,
Department of Defense
Stephen N. Xenakis
Brigadier General
U.S. Army (Ret.)
CC:
The Honorable Rex W. Tillerson, Secretary of State
The Honorable James N. Mattis, Secretary of Defense
The Honorable Jefferson B. Sessions, Attorney General of the United States
The Honorable John F. Kelly, Secretary of Homeland Security
The Honorable Michael P. Dempsey, Acting Director of National Intelligence
Page 8 of 8
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