Apple, Inc. v. Motorola, Inc. et al

Filing 109

Declaration of Carlos A. Rodriguez filed by Defendants Motorola Mobility, Inc., Motorola, Inc. re: 95 Motion Requesting Claims Construction by Defendants. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1 - Excerpts from Patent No. 6,275,983 Prosecution History, # 2 Exhibit 2 - Excerpts from Patent No. 6,212,575 Prosecution History, # 3 Exhibit 4 - July 4, 1011 Correspondence from Erwine to Haskett, # 4 Exhibit 5 - Excerpts from Patent No. 6,175,559 Prosecution History, # 5 Exhibit 6 - Excerpts from July 13, 2011 Deposition of Leonard Cimini, Ph.D., # 6 Exhibit 7 - Excerpts from American Heritage College Dictionary) (Hansen, Scott) Modified on 7/18/2011 (llj).

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EXHIBIT 6 071311cimini (3).txt 1 1 21 UNEDITED DRAFT TRANSCRIPT (REPORTER'S NOTE: Since this deposition has been real-timed and is in rough draft form, please be aware that there is a discrepancy regarding page and line numbers when comparing the real-time screen, the rough draft, rough ASCII, and the final document. Also please be aware that the real-time screen and the unedited, uncertified rough draft transcript/ASCII may contain untranslated steno, an occasional reporter's note, a misspelled proper name, and/or nonsensical English word combinations. All such entries will be corrected on the final, certified transcript. We, the party working with real-time, understand that if we choose to use the real-time rough draft screen, ASCII or printout, that we are doing so with the understanding the rough draft is an uncertified copy. 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We, the party working with real-time, further warrant and represent that we have obtained the proper licenses for individual real-time feeds in order to be fully compliant with any potential Engate patents, and protecting the reporter from any and all liability. 22 (In Re: 23 (Testimony of: 24 (Taken on: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Apple, Inc. vs. Motorola, Inc) Leonard Cimini, Ph.D.) July 13, 2011) 2 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 2 videotaped deposition of Dr. Leonard Cimini, 3 taken by the defendant in the matter of Apple, 4 Inc., and NeXT Software, Inc., a/k/a NeXT Page 1 5 071311cimini (3).txt Computer, Inc., plaintiffs and counterclaim 6 defendants, versus Motorola Inc. and 7 MotorolaMobility, Inc., defendants and 8 counterclaim plaintiffs, in and for the United 9 States District Court for the Western District of 10 Wisconsin, case number 10-CV-662. 11 This deposition is being held at 12 Morris Nichols Arsht & Tunnell, Wilmington, 13 Delaware. 14 2011, at approximately 11 a.m. We're going on the record on July 13, 15 The court reporter is Juli LaBadia 16 from the firm of Wilcox & Fetzer, Wilmington, 17 Delaware. 18 videotape specialist of Discovery Video Services, 19 in association with Wilcox & Fetzer. My name is Lindsay DuPhily, I'm the 20 Counsel will now introduce 21 themselves and then the court reporter will swear 22 in the witness. 23 24 MR. WEINSTEIN: I'm Marc Weinstein of Quinn Emmanuel, representing Motorola. 3 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 2 MR. HASLAM: Bob Haslam, Covington & Burling, representing Apple Inc. and NeXT. 3 LEONARD CIMINI, Ph.D. 4 The witness herein, having first been 5 duly sworn on oath, was examined and 6 testified as follows: 7 8 9 10 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. WEINSTEIN: Q. Okay. Thank you for coming this morning. Could you just give me your full name and the Page 2 071311cimini (3).txt 11 spelling. 12 A. Leonard Cimini. 13 Q. And just confirm that you understand 14 Last name C-i-m-i-n-i. you're under oath? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. That this is no different than testifying 17 in front of the judge in a court? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And just to confirm, also, there's no 20 reason that you are impaired in any way this 21 morning in giving your testimony? 22 medication or anything that -- 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. There's no Have you been deposed before? 6 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 things that you have researched, and worked on. 2 First, can you just tell me a little bit about 3 your Ph.D.? 4 A. What was the focus of that? My Ph.D. was on -- in the broad sense, 5 detection and estimation theory. And it was 6 specifically on robust detection and estimation. 7 So, the gist of that is that you try to -- when 8 you design a system, you don't actually know what 9 the environment is like. You make a guess. And 10 if you design your system based on your guess, 11 you're often quite wrong. 12 degrades rapidly. 13 14 And the system So, you design it based on sort of a class of guesses. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. And that's what my -- it was mainly on the Page 3 17 071311cimini (3).txt title, it doesn't sound like that. It's sum 18 results and quantization in filtering and 19 detection. 20 21 Q. And your first job after getting your Ph.D. was with AT&T? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And please tell me the things you, in your 24 initial role there, what are the things you 7 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 2 worked on? A. My -- I worked in a group that did 3 cellular systems engineering. 4 This is before there were cellular systems. 5 Q. And the timing of that was? 6 A. April, 1982. 7 Q. Okay. 8 9 And what did you do for cellular systems engineering? A. My -- my job, I worked in a 10 forward-looking radio group. 11 wireless. We didn't call it It was radio then. 12 Q. Uh-huh. 13 A. And my job was next generation cellular. 14 So we didn't have a first, but mine was the next, 15 which would be digital cellular. 16 to determine what modulation techniques should be 17 used. 18 and proposed that for the next generation. And my job was So I worked on a technology called OFDM, 19 Q. Can you explain OFDM. 20 A. So, OFDM is what's used in Wi-fi in 802.11 21 22 today. Q. Uh-huh. Page 4 23 A. 071311cimini (3).txt And in many systems. 24 Q. What other systems is it used in? 8 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 A. WiMax. WiMax is sort of a smaller 2 distance cellular type system that's popular 3 especially in Korea. 4 for broadband. It's called WiBro there, 5 Q. Uh-huh. 6 A. And the main problem with transmitting at 7 higher bit rates is the fact that the signal gets 8 to the destination by multiple paths. 9 arrives, it has spread your pulse, because they 10 So when it arrive at different times, these different paths. 11 Q. Uh-huh. 12 A. And so, what happens is your pulse spreads 13 into the next pulse. 14 interference. 15 transmitting at higher bit rates. 16 This is called inner symbol And that's the main limitation in So, what OFDM does, is it's 17 essentially the same as saying if I have a wire 18 that allows me to transmit one megabit per 19 second. 20 Q. Uh-huh. 21 A. If I want to transmit 10 megabits per 22 second, I take 10 wires and I put them together. 23 And that's what OFDM is. 24 not wires. Except the wires are They're frequencies. They're 9 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 frequency bands. So OFDM stands for orthogonal 2 frequency division and multiplexing. 3 it couldn't be built, even at very low rates. Page 5 And in 1982 071311cimini (3).txt 4 And so, we -- we gave up on that 5 technology. Until the late '80s and early '90s, 6 when DSP technology progressed enough that we 7 could build it. 8 Q. And that's digital signal processing? 9 A. Yes. 10 11 1982 digital signal processors were very, very new. Q. Okay. And so, this was done in 12 development throughout the early, mid, and late 13 '80s? 14 A. That was from 1982 to 1985. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. And then in 1985, I moved to the research 17 area at Bell Labs, and worked on fiberoptic 18 communications for five years. 19 And then in 1990, I went back to 20 working on radio wireless systems. Both 21 cellular -- at that point, it would be 3G 22 systems. 23 Q. Uh-huh. 24 A. Although they weren't called that then, 10 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 either. And in building systems, you know, 2 wi-fi, 802.11 type systems. 3 2002 when AT&T downsized, and I came to the 4 University of Delaware. And I did that until 5 Q. And in the U.S., what systems use OFDM? 6 A. 80 -- the initial one was 802.11A. But 7 802.11, the current version, 802.11G, 802.11N, 8 and the newer systems, which will come out later, 9 802.11AC. They all use OFDM and WiMax, which is Page 6 071311cimini (3).txt 10 802.16. 802.16. I don't know how many WiMax 11 systems are deployed in the United States. 12 Q. And is OFDM used for any other? 13 A. OFDM is part of the third -- 14 Q. That's what -- 15 A. -- generation cellular systems. 16 for the down link. 17 the mobile units. 18 19 Q. Okay. But only So, from the base station to And only in some forms of it. And then you've now been at Delaware since '92 as a professor? 20 A. 2002. 21 Q. 2002. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Is and what other topics that you teach? 24 A. Mostly communications. So I teach a 11 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 graduate course in digital communications. I 2 teach an undergraduate course, senior level, in 3 communication systems. 4 level course that's called signals and systems. 5 It's the basic -- what are called linear time and 6 variance systems. And I teach a sophomore 7 Q. I'm familiar with that course. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. It's a required course. 11 Q. Yes. 12 Everyone has to take that course. Okay. Is there any cellular system around the world that uses OFDM? 13 A. Not at the present time. 14 Q. Okay. 15 I'd like to introduce as Cimini Exhibit Number 2, this is -- sorry. Page 7 071311cimini (3).txt 16 17 (Cimini Exhibit 2 marked for identification) 18 19 MR. HASLAM: thanks. 20 21 22 I've got a copy, MR. WEINSTEIN: Okay. You bet. BY MR. WEINSTEIN: Q. This is Dr. Cimini's declaration that was 23 submitted as part of Apple's opening claim 24 construction brief. Okay. If you would turn to 12 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 page 2. 2 A. Yup. 3 Q. In paragraph 9, you said in preparing this 4 declaration, I have extensively reviewed various 5 materials, including the '559 patent and its file 6 history. 7 that you referred to? 8 9 A. Can you tell me what other materials For this dec -- for making this declaration? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. Just the '559 patent and its file history. 12 Q. So if the -- any statement that you've 13 made in the declaration, if it was not from the 14 '559 patent or the file history, was it just 15 based on your general knowledge? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. So there were no other technical papers or 18 books or documents that you? 19 A. Not in writing this declaration. 20 Q. Were there any discussions you had with 21 other professors or engineers in helping to Page 8 071311cimini (3).txt 22 prepare the dec? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Did you, in fact, write the declaration 13 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 2 3 4 yourself? A. The Covington attorneys and I wrote the patent -- wrote the declaration together. Q. Okay. In paragraph 10, you say the '559 5 patent is directed to the field of wireless 6 telecommunication systems, and that addresses the 7 problem of multiple cellular telephones trying to 8 communicate with the same base station in the 9 cellular network at the same time. 10 11 12 13 On what basis do you make that statement? A. From the description and specification of the patent. 14 Q. And could you point -- oh. 15 A. I don't have -- 16 Q. Before we do that. 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. Let me introduce as Cimini Exhibit Number Yes. 19 3, this is U.S. patent number 6,175,559. 20 Tyler Brown. 21 To (Cimini Exhibit 3 marked for 22 identification) 23 BY MR. WEINSTEIN: 24 A. Yeah. Thank you. Were you waiting for my 14 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 answer? Page 9 071311cimini (3).txt 2 Q. Yes. 3 A. Okay. 4 Sorry. So, in -- in column 1, around line 15 -- 5 Q. Uh-huh? 6 A. Because multiple mobile stations may be 7 8 9 10 trying to access the channel simultaneously. Q. Okay. And just to step back a bit. In preparing for today, did you review the 559 patent again? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And when did you do that? 13 A. Yesterday, and Sunday. 14 Q. And were there any other materials that 15 16 17 you used in preparing? A. Yes. I looked at -- I looked at several of the other patents that I had. 18 Q. Several other patents? 19 A. I can't remember all the numbers. 20 Q. Several other patents related to this 21 patent? 22 A. Related to this one. 23 Q. Anything else? 24 Any other technical documents? 15 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you refer to any -- 3 A. Oh, wait. 4 5 6 7 Yes. The 3GPP. Some of the 3GPP documents. Q. Did that include the -- I'm sorry. TS25.213 standard? A. Yes. Page 10 A 3GPP 8 9 Q. Okay. 071311cimini (3).txt So, and the next line in paragraph 10, it says, "When a new cellular telephone 10 enters a cell, it must notify the base station of 11 its presence so that it can begin to send and 12 receive data on the network. 13 telephone transmits a choice signal called a 14 preamble to allow the base station to detect its 15 presence." 16 The new cellular So from the time that a cell phone 17 enters a cell to the time that it actually 18 transmits the preamble sequence, can you explain 19 what steps take place? 20 21 A. Not exactly. So I can tell you in general terms. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. So when you're -- when you have your cell 24 phone and you're in a -- in an area, you're in 16 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 Wilmington. 2 Q. Uh-huh. 3 A. You turn your phone on. Your phone 4 immediately makes contact with the cellular 5 system, trying to find the nearest base station. 6 So that's all part of the initial process. 7 knowing where you are, first of all. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Just But the process where now you have 10 something to send is slightly different than -- 11 this is more about the mobile station initiating, 12 you know, communications with the base station. 13 Q. Such as making a phone call? Page 11 14 15 A. 071311cimini (3).txt Such as making a phone call, a text, anything. 16 Q. Right. 17 A. And so, what you need is you need some 18 information that needs to be exchanged with the 19 base station, that one, allows the base station 20 to know you're there, and to do synchronization. 21 And that's what this short preamble is for. 22 So this would happen almost 23 immediately when you have something to send. 24 general terms. In I can't tell you exactly how -17 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. -- 3G operates or even a 2G system. 3 Q. Okay. So before the preamble is actually 4 sent, are there steps, are there any other 5 communications that occur between the mobile 6 station and the base station? 7 A. I don't know how each system operates, but 8 in the older cellular systems, so if we go back 9 to the 2G, what happened is as soon as you 10 were -- your phone is turned on, with nothing to 11 transmit, there's essentially something that 12 would be -- you can call a beacon, that allows 13 the station to -- to know where you are, within 14 which cell you are. 15 16 17 Q. So the beacon is from -- from which to which? A. From the mobile station to -It would be from the base station to the 18 mobile. Setting up sort of a handshaking, to say 19 yes, I know you're there. Page 12 071311cimini (3).txt But in the newer systems, that might 20 21 22 23 24 not be necessary. Q. I'm not sure. So in the newer system -- I'm sorry. So for 3G it might not -A. It might not be necessary. But I can't 18 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 2 say. Q. Okay. Then the last line is that the base 3 station then transmits to the new cellular 4 telephone a unique identifying value that the new 5 cellular telephone uses in future transmissions. 6 Can you explain, what is the unique identifying 7 value? 8 9 A. So, the unique identifying value depends on the system, all right. 10 it's a CDMA system. 11 So let's assume that So either -- either 2G or the newer 3G. 12 Q. Uh-huh. 13 A. So what the base station would have to 14 tell the cell -- the cell phone is how that -- 15 how to communicate so that the base station can 16 distinguish it from other users, and the mobile 17 station is transmitting to the correct base 18 station. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. So this identifying value could be a code, 21 if it's a CDMA system. 22 would operate for CDMA. 23 24 Q. Okay. And that's how 2G and 3G And the code, is the code actually sent from the base station to the mobile station? 19 Unedited, uncertified rough draft Page 13 071311cimini (3).txt 1 A. The code is actually sent from the -- 2 okay. 3 actual code is sent. 4 station sends to the mobile station an index, so 5 the mobile station has a table where the code -- 6 say index 7 means this code. So I should back up. 7 I'm not sure if the It could be that the base Or it could be, actually send, if 8 it's being done by some circuitry that's 9 generating the code, it can tell it the -- the 10 weights on the -- on the shift register. 11 I don't know how it's actually done. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. In the newer systems. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. Because many new cellular telephones often Let's move on to paragraph 11. 17 enter a cell at the same time, multiple new 18 cellular telephones may try to transmit preambles 19 to the base station at the same time. 20 was the basis for that statement? 21 A. And what So, let me see if I can find the line. 22 Right. So, this comes from -- you can go the 23 same line we read before, because multiple mobile 24 stations may be trying to access the channel 20 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 simultaneously. 2 to many users -- multiple new cellular telephones 3 might try to transmit the preamble to the base 4 station at the same time. 5 simultaneously. 6 Q. Uh-huh. All right. So that corresponds So that comes from And then the following statement, Page 14 071311cimini (3).txt 7 the base station must be able to distinguish the 8 different preambles. 9 A. Right. So this -- this comes from reading 10 the patent, but basically, also general 11 knowledge, right? 12 have multiple users all trying to access the 13 channel at the same time, you need a way to 14 separate them. So if you need to -- if you 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. Otherwise they just look like one blob of 17 noise to the base station. 18 needs to be able to separate these. 19 20 Q. Okay. So the base station And the '559 patent, you're saying, is directed to CDMA? 21 A. Yeah. That's what it says. 22 Q. Okay. And is it -- is the '559 patent 23 also applicable to other forms of cellular 24 systems? 21 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 A. No. 2 Q. Okay. In paragraph 12, you get into doing 3 some background on CDMA systems. The second 4 sentence, CDMA allows multiple cellular 5 telephones to use the same physical communication 6 channel. 7 A. Can you explain what that means? So, the -- you need to separate users in 8 some way. And so, you can separate them in time 9 or frequency. So that means users use different 10 times, so you get a turn and I get a turn. Or 11 use different frequencies, which is the way the 12 oldest systems operated. Or there's another way, Page 15 071311cimini (3).txt 13 where you can use the same time and the same 14 frequency, but each user is assigned a different 15 code. 16 And ideally, these codes are 17 orthogonal. So that at the destination, at the 18 base station, each user has a different code. 19 The base station correlates with each of these 20 codes, and separates the users. 21 allowed to use the same frequency channel at the 22 same time. 23 (Phone beeps) 24 MR. WEINSTEIN: So they're Excuse me. 22 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 Q. In the last clause, it says "Without 2 significant interference by encoding transmitted 3 data, using a code that is unique to that 4 cellular telephone, and that can be distinguished 5 from the codes of all cellular -- all other 6 cellular telephones." 7 code you were talking about before? 8 9 10 11 12 13 A. Yes. Is that the same unique I -- in the previous explanation, I actually answered, you know, explained the next sentence. Q. Okay. So that's after the preamble has been sent? A. Well, it's a combination, right? So 14 there's two -- there's two features to a 15 communication system, right? 16 synchronization access, and then there's actual 17 transmission of data. 18 Q. Okay. Page 16 There's the 071311cimini (3).txt 19 20 A. So the code would be used in -- a code would be used in both cases. 21 Q. Okay? 22 A. But it's in a -- in the preamble part, 23 you're going to separate users to start access to 24 the channel. In the -- once you have access, 23 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 then the actual data communication occurs, 2 potentially with a different code. 3 how the system is designed. 4 5 6 7 Q. Okay. It depends on And in the CDMA, is that the same code or different codes? A. CDMA -- stands for code division multiple access. 8 Q. Right. 9 A. It simply means that each user has a 10 different code. 11 Q. That would be -- 12 A. In order to access the channel. 13 14 In order to transmit data. Q. Right. The code used for the preamble, 15 and then the code used for later messaging, is 16 that the same code or different code in CDMA? 17 18 A. It could be either. In the simplest case, it would be the same. 19 Q. All right. 20 A. But -- 21 Q. Can you explain to me, I know if you give 22 me some background on it, but what are the 23 primary differences between CDMA and OFDM/FDMA? 24 A. Okay. So -Page 17 071311cimini (3).txt 24 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 MR. HASLAM: I'm going to let him 2 answer that, but I'm going to object on the 3 relevance of that. 4 discussed in his declaration, and that's what 5 we're here to talk about. 6 It's not a topic that's MR. WEINSTEIN: 7 Q. Please answer. 8 A. Okay. Well -- okay. 9 So, FDMA means I separate users by different -- each user uses a different 10 frequency. 11 for example, which was analog, called amps, used 12 a separate frequency. 13 frequency, and you kept it forever. 14 frequency channel was yours. 15 your -- when you pick up a wired telephone. 16 get that wire, and that wire is yours and no one 17 else uses it. 18 So the very first cellular system is, So you were given a That That's similar to You In -- in TDMA, we all use the same 19 wire, but we share it. 20 then you use it. 21 all use it at the same time, but we all use a 22 different code. 23 24 So I use it first, and In CDMA, we all use the wire, OFDM is not the same class. not an access technology. It's OFDM is a modulation 25 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 technique that permits you to transmit at higher 2 bit rates. 3 And it could apply to all three systems. 4 TDMA or FDMA. So it applies to one user at a time. Page 18 CDMA, 5 Q. Okay. 6 in CDMA? 7 A. 071311cimini (3).txt So, I'm sorry. So OFDM can be used Yeah, it can. There remember plenty of 8 technologies that are called multi carrier CDMA, 9 that look very much like OFDM. 10 Q. And those are used in the U.S.? 11 A. I don't know. The 3G technologies, some 12 of the original 3G proposals were multi carrier 13 CDMA, but I don't know how much of it is actually 14 being -- going to be deployed, or even considered 15 in the future. 16 Q. Okay. I'd like to enter as -- this is now 17 Cimini Exhibit Number 4. 18 of Dr. Cimini's publications. 19 And this is just a list (Cimini Exhibit 4 marked for 20 identification) 21 BY MR. WEINSTEIN: 22 Q. And this is a publication list that comes 23 from the University of Delaware's website that's 24 linked to your bio. 26 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 A. Okay. Yeah. 2 Q. And this and lists your journal articles. 3 Also conference papers, your patents, and your 4 books. Books is on -- I guess it's page 6. 5 A. Page 6. 6 Q. No, I'm sorry. 7 It's not there. and on the very last page. Page 8. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. They're just book chapters. Page 19 I'm sorry 11 Q. 071311cimini (3).txt Those are just book chapters? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And do any of those book chapters relate 14 to CDMA? 15 A. No. 16 Q. And in this, there are 50 journal articles 17 listed. 18 OFDM. 19 A. 20 I guess the majority are relating to Do any of them relate to CDMA? I'm sorry, I'm trying -- I'm looking through it -- 21 Q. Sure. 22 A. -- to see if there are. 23 24 No. I don't -- I don't believe so. Q. Okay. And is that also the case for 27 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 the -- the conference papers? 2 A. I would think so. 3 Q. There's quite a few more. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And just also to confirm, also, for your 6 patents? 7 A. No. 8 Q. So, in -- in providing the overview of 9 10 11 No CDMA. CDMA, how -- on what basis do you -- are you able to discuss it? A. CDMA is a well-known technology, and 12 it's -- it's well developed already in textbooks. 13 And I've worked in cellular, and wi-fi for almost 14 30 years, so I've developed a background where I 15 understand these. 16 short courses that covered CDMA. And I've taught courses and Page 20 17 Q. Okay. 071311cimini (3).txt And returning to your declaration, 18 in paragraph 13, you said the basic unit of 19 information transmitted over CDMA is called a 20 chip. 21 A. Can you explain the meaning of a chip? In the -- in the fundamental principle of 22 CDMA that allows it to -- to work, is that what 23 you do is you take a given user or information 24 symbols from the user, information from the user, _____________________________________________________________________ 88 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 code, what do you mean that it's used to perform 2 signal separation? 3 4 5 A. That's to determine which base station -- you know, which base station you're talking to. Q. So this is -- when you mean signal 6 separation, you mean that the base station knows 7 it's supposed to receive it or it's -- 8 9 A. No. This doesn't have anything to do with whether it's supposed to receive it or not. It 10 just has a code that's -- that identifies the -- 11 that particular base station. 12 for -- you're a base station. So it knows it's 13 Q. Right. 14 A. You know this is for you, as opposed to 15 16 17 for another base station. Q. Right. That's what I intended to say, is that -- 18 A. Oh, okay. 19 Q. So the base station knows when it's 20 receiving a signal from a mobile station -- the? 21 A. That's for itself. 22 Q. It knows it's for the base station? Page 21 071311cimini (3).txt 23 A. Yes. Yes. 24 Q. To put it again, so to tell the base 89 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 station that is signal is indeed intended for it? 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. Okay. 4 5 identify. A. And the inner code to uniquely What's the -- can you explain that? Each mobile station then would have its 6 own -- the each mobile station within that base 7 station's cell area would have its own 8 identifying code. 9 Q. And in choosing that code, is that based 10 on information it receives from the base station? 11 The inner code. 12 A. The inner code is chosen based on -- this 13 again gets back to that other question we talked 14 about. 15 codes assigned in some way to mobile stations, or 16 are they given to the mobile stations when they 17 make this handshaking. 18 19 Q. Is the -- the other issue. Right. Are these And that's just something you're not sure about? 20 A. Something I'm not sure about. 21 Q. Okay. So, I know you're unsure, but 22 it's -- we were saying it's possible, then, that 23 the base station sends information to tell a 24 mobile station use this particular outer code, or 90 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 one of these particular outer codes, and then 2 also use one of these particular inner codes? Page 22 3 A. So wait. 071311cimini (3).txt That's different from the 4 question you just asked me a minute ago. 5 minute ago you asked about the inner code. 6 Q. Yes. 7 A. Right. A 8 So the inner code is specific for each mobile. 9 Q. Right. 10 A. So in that case, somehow the mobile must 11 know what its code is. 12 in the mobile unit itself, or it's sent by the 13 base station. 14 So, it either is embedded The outer code is something 15 different. The outer code is something which is 16 common to everybody in the cell. 17 station, you know, is -- is broadcasting this all 18 the time, for example. So the base 19 Q. Uh-huh. 20 A. And everybody's just listening to what it 21 is, and then it feeds it back if it hears it. 22 Right? It's -- it's like an identifier. 23 Q. Right. 24 A. -- of that base station. 91 Unedited, uncertified rough draft _____________________________________________________________________ 100 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 and the codes didn't match, you wouldn't be able 2 to decode it. 3 I'm -- if I had the correct one, I would decode 4 my -- I would be able to detect my -- if I had 5 the one that's for me, and I know it's for me, 6 then all of the others, I don't decode those, but Page 23 So what that means is that I -- if 071311cimini (3).txt 7 they become zero -- you know, like zero 8 background noise to me. 9 intended to mean. That's what this is 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Flipped it the other way, it means I only 12 can detect the one that's using the correct outer 13 code. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. That makes a better -- maybe a better way 16 17 18 That makes sense. to say this. Q. Right. It -- the I think that sentence just kind of takes the next step leap, without -- 19 A. It's okay. 20 Q. -- making it's clear that it's -- 21 A. I understand. 22 Q. It states it's not correlating it, because 23 it's not correlating it, it can't decode it 24 correctly. 101 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 A. Right. 2 Q. The next line the '559 patent suggests to 3 use gold and Kasami codes to form the outer code. 4 How does the -- well, start with the example of 5 using a common one, where each -- where there's 6 only one outer code for the base station. 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. How does -- or let me -- what is in the 9 mobile station that enables it to generate the 10 same code as all the other mobile stations in 11 the -- in that cell? 12 A. I can't tell you exactly how it's Page 24 071311cimini (3).txt 13 happening in 3GPP. 14 Gold code, for example, or a Kasami, because 15 these come from actual shift -- actual length 16 shift register sequences. 17 register to generate it. 18 information you really need to transmit is how 19 long the code is or how many shift register -- 20 shift registers you need. 21 usually sort of a generator that tells them how 22 to make the connections. 23 the Gold code in one transmission. 24 Q. But what I would do with a So you use the shift You tell the -- only And there's also And that would generate What do you mean by a generator to make 102 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 the connections? 2 A. It -- a shift register. 3 Q. Uh-huh. 4 A. Okay? 5 So a shift register has a bunch of boxes which are essentially delays. 6 Q. Right. 7 A. And then there are connections, there are 8 feedback connections, and feed forward 9 connections. 10 Q. Uh-huh. 11 A. And it tells them how to make these 12 connections. Which ones are connected. 13 there's four boxes, do you add the output of 1 14 and 2 or do you add the output of 1 and 3 or do 15 you add the output of 1, 2, and 3. 16 connections are part of what's called the 17 generator equation for this. 18 generates the code. Page 25 So if Those And that's what 071311cimini (3).txt 19 This is true for all pseudo random 20 sequences. There's a standard diagram, and these 21 connections are specified. 22 specify the connections, and how many of these 23 shift registers there are, you can generate any 24 pseudo random sequence. So if you simply Any M sequence. 133 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 A. Under the way you just defined it, no. 2 Q. So -- 3 A. Let me -- can I repeat it because I'm not 4 sure I understood. 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. So, a symbol is defined as 8 chips. 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. And you want the outer code to be 9 chips 9 long. 10 Q. Repeating at 9 chips, rather than 8 chips. 11 A. Right. So then you asked -- okay. The 12 relationship between -- so it's not an integer 13 number of symbols. 14 Q. Okay. Yes. In that situation, would an outer code of 15 9 chips fall within the scope of claim 1, but not 16 within the scope of claim 2? 17 A. Yes. If claim 1 is meant to be anything, 18 it doesn't have to have that particular period. 19 Yes. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. They would be different. 22 23 24 MR. HASLAM: I have no further questions. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Page 26 This deposition 071311cimini (3).txt 134 Unedited, uncertified rough draft 1 2 sending at approximately 1:47 p.m. (Deposition concluded at 1:47 p.m.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Page 27

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