United States of America v. State of California et al

Filing 171

REPLY by United States of America to RESPONSE to 2 Motion for Preliminary Injunction. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit B, # 3 Exhibit C, # 4 Exhibit D, # 5 Exhibit E, # 6 Exhibit F, # 7 Exhibit G, # 8 Exhibit H, # 9 Exhibit I, # 10 Exhibit J, # 11 Exhibit K, # 12 Exhibit L, # 13 Exhibit M, # 14 Exhibit N, # 15 Exhibit O, # 16 Exhibit P, # 17 Exhibit Q, # 18 Exhibit R, # 19 Exhibit S, # 20 Exhibit T, # 21 Exhibit U, # 22 Exhibit V, # 23 Exhibit W, # 24 Exhibit X, # 25 Exhibit Y)(Reuveni, Erez)

EXHIBIT P

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE

2

EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

3

__________________________________

4

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

5

Plaintiff,

6

vs.

No. 2:18-cv-00490-JAM-KJN

7

THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA; EDMUND

8

GERALD BROWN, JR., Governor of

9

California, in his Official Capacity;

10

and XAVIER BECERRA, Attorney General

11

of California, in his Official Capacity,

12
13

Defendants.
__________________________________

14
15
16

DEPOSITION OF JOE DOMINIC

17

Sacramento, California

18

Friday, June 1, 2018

19
20
21

Reported By:

22

JENNIFER SCHUMACHER

23

CSR No. 9763

24

Job No. 2930424

25

PAGES 1 - 115
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE

2

EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

3

__________________________________

4

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

5

Plaintiff,

6

vs.

No. 2:18-cv-00490-JAM-KJN

7

THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA; EDMUND

8

GERALD BROWN, JR., Governor of

9

California, in his Official Capacity;

10

and XAVIER BECERRA, Attorney General

11

of California, in his Official Capacity,

12
13
14

Defendants.
__________________________________
Deposition of JOE DOMINIC, taken on behalf of

15

Plaintiff, at United States Attorney's Office, 501 I

16

Street, Sacramento, California, beginning at 11:21

17

a.m. and ending at 3:14 p.m. on Friday, June 1, 2018,

18

before JENNIFER SCHUMACHER, Certified Shorthand

19

Reporter No. 9763.

20
21
22
23
24
25
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APPEARANCES:

2

For the Plaintiffs:

3

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

4

BY: EREZ REUVENI, Esq.

5

LAUREN C. BINGHAM, Esq.

6

450 5th Street, N.W.

7

Washington, DC 20530

8

[phone]

9

[e-mail]

10

[e-mail]

11
12

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

13

DHS-ICE, Office of the Principal Legal Advisor

14

BY:

15

500 12th Street, S.W.

16

Washington, DC 20536

JULIE LAUGHLIN, Esq.

17
18

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

19

BY:

20

501 I Street, Suite 10-100

21

Sacramento, California 95814

22

[phone]

DAVID T. SHELLEDY, Esq.

23
24
25
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APPEARANCES (CONT.):

2

For the Defendants:

3

STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

4

BY: JAY C. RUSSELL, Esq.

5

455 Golden Gate Avenue, Suite 11000

6

San Francisco, California 94102

7

[phone]

8

[e-mail]

9
10

STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

11

BY:

12

300 S. Spring Street

13

Los Angles, California 90013

14

[phone]

15

[e-mail]

LEE I. SHERMAN, Esq.

16
17
18

Also Present:
John McDonnell, Videographer

19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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2

INDEX
WITNESS

EXAMINATION

3
JOE DOMINIC
4
5

By Mr. Reuveni

7

6
7

---o0o---

8
9
10

EXHIBITS
Plaintiff's

Description

Page

11
12

Exhibit

D

Declaration of Joe Dominic

13

Exhibit

E

Senate Bill No. 54

13

14

Exhibit

F

CLETS Policies, Practices and

71

15
16

Procedures
Exhibit

G

17
18

21

CLETS Employee/Volunteer

Exhibit

H

California Legislative

76

Information
Exhibit

I

Information Bulletin No.
18-02-CJIS

22
23
24

74

Statement

19
20

9

---o0o---

25
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90

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so access to the criminal offender record information is

2

accessible to immigration authorities.

3

BY MR. REUVENI:

4
5

Q.

Regardless of whether their law enforcement

purpose is criminal or civil?

6

A.

Correct.

7

Q.

So you mentioned 54 databases in this

8

paragraph.

9

an individual's release date and time?

10

A.

Can you tell me which ones have an entry for

So our automated criminal history system has

11

custody release.

12

information for release into supervision, parole or

13

probation, and our CSAR system also has similar release

14

information.

15
16

Q.

Our supervised release file has

So just those three would have that

information, in your view?

17

A.

That's what I'm currently aware of.

18

Q.

Okay.

And what databases would have

19

information concerning an individual's address, home or

20

work?

21

A.

Automated criminal history system has an

22

address field, our supervised release file has address

23

information, and our sex and arson registry system,

24

CSAR, also has address information.

25

Q.

What databases of those 54 have other -- other
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THE WITNESS:

2

read that.

3

Yes.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

I

BY MR. REUVENI:

4
5
6

Q.

I'm sorry.

What is an interaction with the criminal

justice system?
A.

Means that they were booked with an arrest

7

print coming in via our fingerprint system and/or going

8

into CDCR being released, or providing information to

9

our supervised release file, or if there's a registry

10

for California Sex and Arson Registry system, they would

11

put that information as well.

12

interaction, if there's information has changed with

13

address, that information potentially could be updated

14

at that time.

15

Q.

So every time there's

So is it fair to say that an arrest begins,

16

quote, interaction with the criminal justice system, and

17

anything that follows would be an interaction with the

18

criminal justice system?

19
20
21

A.

In that particular point, the beginning, yeah,

would be the arrest print coming in.
Q.

Okay.

So you list a number of examples here

22

that are in the SRF.

Down there at the bottom, line 28,

23

you say it has information about active parolees,

24

probationers, sex and arson registrants, violent

25

offenders and career criminals.
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Active parolees, let's start with them.

So is

2

an active parolee someone who has been convicted of a

3

crime and released from state as opposed to local

4

custody?

5

A.

That's my understanding.

6

Q.

So they have been in DOC custody; is that

7

right?

8

at a DOC facility?

They were detained by DOC or imprisoned by DOC

9

MR. RUSSELL:

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous.

10

THE WITNESS:

I'm sorry.

In this case are you

11

referring to our --

12

BY MR. REUVENI:

13

Q.

State Department of Corrections.

14

A.

Corrections, right.

15

Q.

So if they are an active parolee, they have

16

been paroled from the State Department of Corrections?

17

A.

Correct.

18

Q.

Okay.

And then probationers.

Probationers,

19

are these individuals who have been convicted of a

20

crime?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

And they have just been -- instead of going --

23
24
25

serving time, they have been released on probation?
A.

Uh-huh, correct.
MR. RUSSELL:

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous.

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Lacks foundation.

2

BY MR. REUVENI:

3
4
5
6

Q.

So they have been convicted of a crime, though,

correct?
A.

If they are put on probation, they have

committed some crime.

7

Q.

Crime.

And they have been convicted of that

8

crime.

9

probation?

10

A.

(Witness nodded head.)

11

Q.

Okay.

And then in lieu of jail time they are on

And the sex and arson registrants, all

12

those individuals have been convicted of a crime as

13

well, right?

14

A.

My understanding.

15

Q.

In order to be -- because you mention it in

16

paragraph 7, when you refer to sex and arson registrants

17

here, are you referring to the same individuals that

18

would be in the California Sex and Arson Registry?

19

A.

They are different systems.

20

Q.

Okay.

21
22
23
24
25

So tell me about the sex and arson

registrants in paragraph 6.
A.

What is that system?

This is for anyone who is getting released who

is a sex and arson registrant.
Q.

Okay.

I see.

So my question is different.

If

someone is a sex and arson registrant, i.e., they had to
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register as a sex offender or an arson offender, would

2

they also be in the California sex arson registry?

3
4
5
6

A.

They would have to -- law enforcement would be

entering that in as a registrant when they get released.
Q.

And then they would be also be in CSAR, the

California Sex and Arson Registry?

7

A.

That they have been released.

8

Q.

Okay.

9
10

crime, right?

Violent offenders, also convicted of a
Not just someone who has been arrested or

suspected of, but they have been convicted of a crime?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

And last, career criminals, same deal, they

13

have been convicted of several crimes, presumably,

14

that's what makes them a career?

15

A.

(Witness nodded head.)

16

Q.

Okay.

So everyone in this example that you

17

have just -- we've just been discussing, the SRF file,

18

has been convicted of a crime?

19

A.

Correct.

20

Q.

None of them have been arrested for a crime and

21
22
23
24
25

not convicted?
A.

Right, it's a supervised release file system,

so they are being released from custody.
Q.

So I gave you the SB 54 statute a minute ago.

So let's go back to the definition of California law
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THE WITNESS:

Yeah, I'm having a -- again, I

2

understand these systems at a very high level, so I'm

3

trying to understand your question, what you're saying.

4

BY MR. REUVENI:

5

Q.

I'm not asking you about the systems.

I'm

6

asking you about your declaration.

And I'm asking you

7

about where you referred to probationers in paragraph 6.

8

A.

Uh-huh.

9

Q.

So perhaps we should talk about probationers

10

again for a minute.

11

this to include individuals who have not been detained

12

by the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation?

13

A.

Probationers, do you understand

So supervised release file gets information

14

from multiple entities and one is county probation and

15

CDCR.

16

Q.

Okay.

So it's your understanding that a

17

probationer could include both someone who was in the

18

custody of CDCR and someone who was released from county

19

custody?

20

A.

I'm not clear about that, but potentially.

21

Q.

Potentially.

Okay.

And a sex and arson

22

registrant, they would have been in the custody of CDCR

23

because they have been convicted of a sex or arson

24

crime?

25

A.

Yes.
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Q.

Same with violent offenders?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And same with career offenders?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Okay.

So let me refer you now to a different

6

section of SB 54, which you did tell us you were

7

familiar with.

8

exceptions.

9

about halfway down page 3 it starts section 2, section

10

I am looking for the part with the

Here we are.

So if you look at page 3,

7282.5 of the Government Code.

Do you see that?

11

A.

Yeah.

12

Q.

So this provision here lists various crimes

13

individuals have been convicted for that are not subject

14

to SB 54's limitations.

15

do you know if they would be subject to SB 4's [sic]

16

exceptions?

17
18

MR. RUSSELL:

So sex and arson registrants,

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous.

Lacks foundation.

19

THE WITNESS:

20

again?

21

Can you please ask that question

BY MR. REUVENI:

22

Q.

So someone who has been convicted of a sex or

23

arson crime, do you know if they are covered by this

24

provision, 7282.5, meaning they are excepted from the

25

limitations that SB 54 places on local law enforcement?
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Q.

So could someone put that message in there?

2

A.

I believe it's an open field, there's no

3
4
5
6

restrictions on what can be put into that field.
Q.

Do you know if anyone is required by law or by

policy to actually input data into the SRF?
A.

To the best of my understanding, CDCR is

7

required to send data to us.

But maybe -- but from a

8

mandatory standpoint, statutory requirement, probation,

9

others, I believe are not.

10

Q.

So only CDCR, to the best of your knowledge?

11

A.

To the best of my knowledge.

12

Q.

And again, CDCR would be -- have the custody of

13

people who have been convicted of crimes?

14

A.

Correct.

15

Q.

So do you know if the other agencies that input

16
17

information to the system, in fact, do it?
A.

I've been -- my staff have told me that

18

other -- yes, they are inputting information.

19

don't have the details as to how many are doing it.

20

yes, they are using the system.

21
22

Q.

I just
But

So could you say with 100 percent certainty

that everyone is filling out the information?

23

A.

No, I cannot.

24

Q.

Okay.

25

You say in your paragraph 6 towards the

end there, "The SRF," this is the third line on page 2,
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"The SRF also contains mandatory fields for the start

2

date of supervision."

3

Is that what you just were referring to?

4

A.

No.

What does that mean, mandatory?

I'm referring to if there's a release, the

5

start date of supervision, they need to put that date in

6

there, the start date of supervision.

7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17

Q.

That's mandatory.

Are there any civil or criminal penalties for

failing to do so?
A.

I'm not aware of that.

about that.
Q.

I don't have knowledge

My staff would know that.

Do you know with 100 percent certainty that

this mandatory field is always filled out?
A.

My understanding is if it's a mandatory field,

it has to be filled out.
Q.

But you don't know if it's actually always

filled out?
A.

Correct.

But it's mandatory, meaning that for

18

them to be able to put into the system, the system would

19

require that data field to be updated.

20
21
22

Q.

Oh, the system itself would prompt you to fill

that out?
A.

Well, no, I'm saying it's a mandatory field.

23

I'm not sure if the system require -- I mean, it's

24

mandatory.

25

understanding -- knowledge of whether or not the system

I just don't -- I can't -- I don't have the

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2

requires it, but it's mandatory.
Q.

Okay.

So when you don't refer to any of the

3

other fields that you discuss in that paragraph as

4

mandatory, does that mean they are not mandatory?

5
6

A.

Again, some data fields are mandatory and some

are optional.

This is a mandatory field.

7

Q.

So the address field is optional?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

So the only field in SRF that is mandatory, as

10
11

you've stated here, is the start date of supervision?
A.

12

That's not -MR. RUSSELL:

13

Vague and ambiguous.

Misstates testimony.

14

Objection.

BY MR. REUVENI:

15
16

Q.

Are there any other mandatory fields other than

start date of supervision?

17

A.

Yes, there is.

18

Q.

What are those?

19

A.

I don't have those on the top of my head.

20
21
22
23
24
25

My

staff would know that, but -Q.

But it doesn't include an address field,

correct?
A.

Yes, it does include address field, name and

other data, PI information.
Q.

I'm sorry.

You earlier said the address field

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is not mandatory.

2

A.

Right.

3

Q.

Are you saying it is mandatory?

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

Okay.

6

A.

It's not.

7

It's not.
But I'm saying there's other data

fields within SRF.

8

Q.

Okay.

9

A.

I believe the attorneys gave you a document

10

that breaks down some more information about SRF.

11

Q.

They did.

12

A.

Okay.

13

Q.

So in that last sentence there, "Under some

14

circumstances this would correlate with the date that a

15

person is scheduled to be released from custody," do you

16

see that, the last sentence in paragraph 6?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

Now, does the start date of supervision, is

19

that just a date, like January 1st?

20

A.

Yes, that's just a date.

21

Q.

So it doesn't include a time?

22

A.

I believe it doesn't include a time but a date.

23

Q.

No time, just a date?

24

A.

Correct.

25

Q.

And when you say "in some circumstances this
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putting the date into the system.

2

Q.

You don't know how often that would happen?

3

A.

Correct.

4

Q.

Okay.

Do you guys, your office, does it issue

5

any guidance or points of practice, best practices how

6

to enter this type of information, when to enter this

7

type of information?

8
9

A.

So we have the handbook, and there's also -- we

do training to the various areas within the criminal

10

justice community in usage of the system and updating

11

the system.

12

Q.

Does that guidance or training include guidance

13

or training on when it is appropriate to enter a start

14

date of supervision into the system?

15

A.

I'm not clear about the details about what's

16

involved and what might be in the training or in the

17

guidebook fully.

18

Q.

So --

19

A.

As to that question.

20

Q.

Okay.

21

A.

I don't know.

22

Q.

And I think earlier you mentioned the ACHS

So you don't know?

23

database, the criminal history database, and you

24

mentioned addresses can appear in that database.

25

know if entering an address in that database is
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mandatory?

2

A.

It's not mandatory.

3

Q.

Do you know if you do enter a database -- I'm

4

sorry -- if you do enter an address, it must be the

5

actual house address?

6

8

the law enforcement agency time of booking is putting in

9

as address.

10

Q.

I guess what I'm asking you is the field in

11

which you would input the address, if someone were to,

12

say, input simply Sacramento County as the address,

13

there would be no prompt to also enter, what about the

14

house address, what about the street, so someone could

15

enter just the county?

16

A.

I am not sure about that, so I don't know.

17

Q.

Okay.

So you don't know if one has to enter a

18

specific home address into that field if they are going

19

to enter anything into that field?

20

A.

It's an address field in the data specification

21

sheet that all LEAs have, so that's the field.

22

have an address, they would put that in that field, and

23

we accept what that would come in, in the address field.

24
25

Q.

Right.

If they

So you would accept if it just listed

the county, or you would accept if it listed the house
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A.

Yes.

2

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to immigration authorities, and they do have access and

2

the PP&Ps describe how to get access to our system.

3

BY MR. REUVENI:

4

Q.

Earlier when I asked you a similar question,

5

you mentioned some guidance that is not yet complete.

6

Do you remember that?

7

A.

I'm sorry?

8

Q.

Earlier before the break you referred to

9

guidance that your office hadn't yet put out.

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

What guidance were you referring to?

12

A.

SB 54 model policies that are required to be

13
14
15

implemented by October 1st.
Q.

So let's go to the exhibit, I think it's A,

it's the SB 54 statute I gave you.

16

A.

Which page?

17

Q.

Go towards the end.

It's 7484.8.

18

if I can actually find my copy here.

19

copy?

20

Let me see

Do you have a

Great.
Yeah, page 10 at the bottom, subhead (b), where

21

it says, "For any databases operated by state and local

22

law enforcement," do you see that?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Is the guidance you're referring to guidance

25

that is required to be issued under that provision?
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"Attorney General shall, by October 1st, 2018, in

2

consultation," da da da da da da da, "issue guidance

3

aimed at ensuring that those databases are governed in a

4

manner that limits the availability of information

5

therein to the fullest extent"?

6

A.

That's the guidance.

7

Q.

Okay.

8

specifically to immigration enforcement, correct?

9
10

So this is guidance referring

MR. RUSSELL:

Objection.

Misstates testimony.

Lacks foundation.

11

THE WITNESS:

So these are the model policies

12

that CJIS is currently working with DOJ counsel in

13

interpreting the bill.

14

BY MR. REUVENI:

15

Q.

Right.

16

A.

To help us develop.

17
18
19
20

I can't speak to anything

beyond that.
Q.

Will these policies change anything about the

access that DHS currently has to CLETS?
A.

So as I stated, access to criminal offender

21

record information is accessible to immigration

22

enforcement authorities, and that's not -- that's in

23

place.

24

with state and federal law, practical and consistent

25

with federal and state law.

And also SB 54 states that it's in accordance

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Q.

I'm sorry.

Is that a yes or a no?

2

A.

I'm just explaining that we have not published

3

the guidance, and I'm working with my legal counsel into

4

helping produce that document, and it will be within

5

federal, state law.

6
7
8
9

Q.

That's my --

So will the guidance change anything about

DHS's current access to CLETS?
A.

I don't know.

That's what I just said before

is what we're going to be doing with regards to

10

publishing the guidance.

11

federal laws.

12

Q.

And again, within state and

So where it says here at the bottom, and I'll

13

just read it to you, "published guidance, audit criteria

14

and training recommendation aimed at ensuring that those

15

databases are governed in a manner that limits the

16

availability of information therein to the fullest

17

extent practicable and consistent with federal and state

18

law to anyone or any entity for the purpose of

19

immigration enforcement."

20

directed at immigration enforcement?

21
22

MR. RUSSELL:
Lacks foundation.

23
24
25

So that language is not

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous.

Calls for a legal conclusion.

THE WITNESS:

Yes.

I did not say that.

BY MR. REUVENI:
Q.

So the guidance you will be issuing will impact
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2

immigration enforcement?
A.

I can't answer that.

It needs to be determined

3

based on what I just explained about what we're doing

4

with working on the guidance document.

5

counsel is helping CJIS in putting that together with

6

the understanding that it's consistent with federal and

7

state law.

8

Q.

9

As I stated, DOJ

And you don't know if it will change DHS's

access to CLETS?

10

A.

That's for the -- for our counsel to determine.

11

Q.

So it could or it could not, you don't know?

12

A.

First of all, as I explained, access to

13

criminal offender record information to immigration

14

authorities will continue to be accessible.

15
16

Q.

When you say that, do you mean ACHS, is that

what you're referring to?

17

A.

I'm sorry?

18

Q.

When you say criminal record --

19

A.

Criminal offender record information.

20

Q.

All right.

21
22

So the database we discussed

earlier, ACHS, is that what you're referring to?
A.

For example, that would be automated criminal

23

history system, supervised released file, and CSAR, for

24

example.

25

Q.

Those are some of them.
So access to those databases will not change?
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2

MR. RUSSELL:

Objection.

Lacks foundation.

Asked and answered.

3

THE WITNESS:

4

question before.

5

I believe I answered that

BY MR. REUVENI:

6
7
8

Q.

Just remind me what your answer was.

Was it a

yes or a no?
A.

We have not published the guidance, but access

9

to the criminal offender record information, criminal

10

history information will be accessible to immigration

11

authorities.

12
13
14
15
16

Q.

Are there any databases that will not be

accessible?
A.

Again, I cannot answer that because the

guidance documents have not been published.
Q.

So if guidance is issued that does preclude

17

access to certain databases, would your statement in

18

paragraph 9 that, quote, federal agencies may access

19

CLETS in the same manner as state and local law

20

enforcement officers, need to be amended?

21
22
23

MR. RUSSELL:
Lacks foundation.

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

THE WITNESS:

Can you repeat that question?

24

I'm trying to -- what your question is --

25

BY MR. REUVENI:
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Q.

You have a statement here in paragraph --

2

A.

Can look at the document?

3

(Interruption by the reporter.)

4

THE WITNESS:

5

I'd like to look at

the document.

6

I'm sorry.

BY MR. REUVENI:

7

Q.

Should be one of the documents in front of you,

8

paragraph 9, third sentence starting, "Officers with

9

federal agencies may access CLETS in the same manner as

10

state and local law enforcement officers," lines 22 and

11

23.

12

Can you say, as you sit here, with certainty

13

that that will still be correct after this guidance is

14

issued?

15
16

MR. RUSSELL:
Calls for speculation.

17

THE WITNESS:

18

since I've read this.

19

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous.

You can respond.

BY MR. REUVENI:

20

Q.

Repeat the question one more time
Sorry.

So you say here, "Federal agencies may access

21

CLETS in the same manner as state and local law

22

enforcement officers."

23

say that will still -- with certainty that will still be

24

the case after the guidance you referred to is issued?

25

A.

Yes.

As you sit here today, can you

Criminal justice purposes.
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3

Q.

Okay.

So that -- again, that's the criminal

history, SRF and CSAR that you referred to earlier?
A.

No.

Officers of federal agencies may access

4

CLETS in the same manner as state and local law

5

enforcement officers.

6

Q.

Right.

So my question is, is that still going

7

to be correct once this guidance is issued that you

8

referred to earlier?

9
10

MR. RUSSELL:

Objection.

Vague and ambiguous.

Calls for speculation.

11

THE WITNESS:

The statement that I made here is

12

accurate in my declaration.

13

BY MR. REUVENI:

14

Q.

As of the date you made it?

15

A.

It's accurate.

16

Q.

As of today, as of the date you made it, when

17

do you mean?

18

A.

As the date I made it is accurate.

19

Q.

Okay.

So I'm asking you once this guidance is

20

issued, to the best of your knowledge, will that

21

statement still be accurate?

22
23
24
25

A.

Again, I'm working with my legal counsel at DOJ

to create the guidance documents.
Q.

So you don't know?

Is it fair to say you don't

know if that will still be accurate?

It may be

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accurate, it may not be, you just don't know?

2

A.

I don't know.

3

Q.

Okay.

If someone were to contact a local law

4

enforcement officer with access to CLETS and say to

5

them, I would like you to access the CLETS database for

6

me, I need information, I'm going to go enforce civil

7

immigration law with the information you give me, could

8

the law enforcement officer respond to that query?

9
10
11

A.

Would you repeat that again?

I'm sorry.

It

was long.
Q.

Certainly.

So if someone were to contact a law

12

enforcement agency who has access to CLETS, so they are

13

not looking at CLETS themselves, they are contacting an

14

officer of a local law enforcement agency who does have

15

access to CLETS, and they ask, I need you to give me

16

some information from CLETS, I am going to use it for

17

civil immigration law enforcement purposes, would that

18

be an acceptable use of CLETS if you were to respond?

19

A.

Again, in my declaration I say that access to

20

criminal offender record information is accessible to

21

immigration authorities.

22
23
24
25

Q.

Even if they are going to use it for civil

immigration enforcement purposes?
A.

That is my understanding, for criminal

offender -- yes, if they are using criminal offender
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issuing the guidance, working with DOJ counsel, and it

2

will be in compliance with state and federal laws is

3

what I said.

4

Q.

Right.

5

A.

So I don't know.

6

Q.

I think you said CSAR, criminal history and the

7

SRF, they would continue to have access to that, those

8

three databases?

9

A.

Who?

10

Q.

DHS would continue to have access to SRF, CSAR

11

I'm sorry.

and criminal history file after October 1st, 2018?

12

A.

They have access now.

13

Q.

And I believe you said earlier they will

14

continue to have access regardless of what the content

15

of this guidance you referred to is?

16

A.

That is my understanding.

17

Q.

So the other 51 databases, they could lose

18
19
20
21

access to those databases in some way?
MR. RUSSELL:

Objection.

Lacks foundation.

Calls for speculation.
THE WITNESS:

So I'm going to go back to what I

22

said earlier, we're in the process of doing the guidance

23

documents with DOJ counsel, and so -- and again, we're

24

going to be within, you know, the state and federal laws

25

will be the parameters.
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BY MR. REUVENI:

2

Q.

3

certainty?

4

A.

5
6
7

I don't know, to answer that question.

I mean,

as far as beyond what I just said.
Q.

All right.

I think we're close to done.

Let's

take another break real quick, and then I'll wrap it up.

8
9

So it's possible, you can't rule it out with

VIDEO OPERATOR:

Okay.

We're off the record.

Okay.

We're back on the

It's 3:05.

10

(Break.)

11

VIDEO OPERATOR:

12

record it's 1:13.

13

THE REPORTER:

14

VIDEO OPERATOR:

15
16

3:13.
3:13.

BY MR. REUVENI:
Q.

We're almost done.

Just a couple just

17

housekeeping type questions.

18

the testimony you gave us today is inaccurate or

19

problematic?

20
21
22
23

A.

Is there any reason why

I provided the answers to the best of my

ability with what I understand.
Q.

Nothing impaired your ability to give testimony

today that you're aware of?

24

A.

No, absolutely not.

25

Q.

And with respect to this declaration, so your
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United States Of America v. State Of California Et Al

2
3

Joe Dominic
INSTRUCTIONS TO THE WITNESS

4

Please read your deposition over

5

carefully and make any necessary corrections.

6

You should state the reason in the

7

appropriate space on the errata sheet for any

8

corrections that are made.

9
10

After doing so, please sign the errata
sheet and date it.

11

You are signing same subject to the

12

changes you have noted on the errata sheet,

13

which will be attached to your deposition.

14

It is imperative that you return the

15

original errata sheet to the deposing

16

attorney within thirty (30) days of receipt

17

of the deposition transcript by you.

18

fail to do so, the deposition transcript may

19

be deemed to be accurate and may be used in

20

court.

If you

21
22
23
24
25

2930424
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