Apple Computer Inc. v. Burst.com, Inc.

Filing 75

EXHIBITS re 74 Declaration in Support, filed byApple Computer Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit C Part 1# 2 Exhibit C Part 2# 3 Exhibit C Part 3# 4 Exhibit C Part 4# 5 Exhibit D Part 1# 6 Exhibit D Part 2# 7 Exhibit E# 8 Exhibit F# 9 Exhibit G# 10 Exhibit H# 11 Exhibit I# 12 Exhibit J# 13 Exhibit K)(Related document(s) 74 ) (Brown, Nicholas) (Filed on 12/9/2006)

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he gets to the next piece, it's arrived, correct? A: Yes. [41 Q: All right. Now, suppose he presses [SI "rewind"on the video and he wants, after he's [SI watched section number 3, he wants to go back and m watch section number 2. 11 8 A: So now you're assuming that this is [9] being stored. [io] Q: Well, let's suppose that only one of [I 11 those pieces is stored at a time and that when [14 he's finished watching, it's replaced by the next [is] piece. [id] A: When he's finished watching it, the [ I ~ next piece already has to be there so I [IS] Q: Right.This might not be - we're [iq running low on time.This might not be worth it. [it31 I'm going to make one more effort to do this. [I91 Suppose you've got two buffers on p o l the client side. Does that make sense? pi1 A: Okay. [221 Q : You fill one buffer in one second 1231 and it takes ten seconds to play it back, okay? 1241 A: Okay. Q : Before that ten seconds has elapsed, 1251
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A: I have no idea what this is talking about in that the Burst patents describe this stop 1 watch starting and stopping, as I described, sort 1 51 of the burst time period you can, the amount of 51 time required to transmit the information is r] substantially less than the viewing time. 31 That discussion, in everything that 31 I have read, pertains to transmitting not in what 3 we say, in real time, this delineation that is 1 11 given over Haskell, for example, on the previous 21 page. Reading this to me makes - I 31 41 understand the "however"sentence. "System 51 designers did not recognize that time compressed 61 representations could be sent in a burst time 71 period that is shorter than the time period needed 8 for real-time viewing by a receiver." 1 Q: Well, let's stop there. If you 91 01 understand that sentence, can you tell me what you 11 understand that sentence to mean? 121 A: I understand that sentence to mean `31 that at the time of these patents, people were '41 focused on real-time delivery of digital '51 audio/video source information, what we would
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you have to fill the next buffer so you can 131 continue to watch continuously, right? [41 A: Okay. Q : In that situation where you've only [SI [SI got two buffers and you've got only 20 seconds m worth of video storage on the client side, if 181 somebody presses "pause"or "rewind," you're going [91to have to - and wants to go back to a section [io] that's more than 20 seconds away from where they [I 11 are, you're going to have to send data all over [I 21 again, right? ~131 A: In the interpretation of what is [MI written here that you have given me [is] Q: Yes. A: - the statement that you just ended [IS] [iq with - what did you just end with - you would [it31 have to [I~I Q: Send the same data again? [201 A: Yes. I, I believe you have made an pi1 accurate statement. [221 Q: Okay.With that in mind, please [ a ] reread this paragraph beginning with "however"and [a] me if you think that's what it's talking tell [251 about.

today call "streaming." There was not a recognition of what 141 we could call perhaps the fast download or the [SI fast dump where the entire - rather than simply [SI broadcasting in real time, that one could actually m do a fast download. I think I discuss this in my report [e] [g] so, which is probably written in a more eloquent 101 fashion with better verbs. Q: You may be referring to the section 111 121 where you describe the Burst concept at the end of 131 the section 2, which is pages 25 through 26. 141 A: I think, yes, 24 through 26. 151 Q: Oh, I'm sorry. 24. 161 A: Yes.And the Burst patents did not 171 do this "streaming,'' use a word from today, to to it31 describe what's going on. So I agree with that 191 "However" sentence. The next sentence, "Sendingtime 201 211 compressed representations to a receiver can add a 221 new variable consumption rate to the equation 231 which indicates the maximum number of clients the ~241system can service." Now, the first time I read this [251

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sentence, I said I have absolutely no idea what PI this is talking about and my reaction to the 141 following sentence was similar in that pause or 1 1 rewind, unless information may need to be sent, 5 161 this, this already suggests two-way communication m which is not described in what's going on. [a] Q: Given the hour and my heretofore [91failed attempt to explain to you what that meant, [io] I think it's time to move on. If you don't [I 11 understand it sitting here today, I don't want to [121 spend more time on it. [I~I I do want to talk about the section [MI in your report that you just referred to about the [IS] Burst concept.And it appears to me that the [I~I first part of that two or three-page section [I~I titled "The Burst Concept," where you actually [181 describe what you understand the Burst concept to 1191 be is on page 26 where you say, "The idea of a [201 'burst transmission'- one in which an entire [211 program or portion thereof was quickly delivered [221 to a user" A: Sorry.You said - oh, I'm sorry. [ai WII was on the wrong page.Yes, okay. Q: 0kay.You say there, "The idea of a [Z~I
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earlier on in the reports saying this is a claim construction issue, I'm just going to talk about 41 this thing generically. 51 Q: Sure. A: So this is not meant to suggest,for 61 71 example, that TDMA could be used to deliver a 131 program in real time with a portion thereof.This SI is simply meant to generically refer to whatever 0 program may be run. 1 Q: Understood. Let's focus on, just on 11 21 that for a few minutes and then I want to come 31 back to this because I want to get clearer your 41 position on what has to be transmitted. 51 I believe, and I think it's actually 61 on the next page, that the construction you're 71 advancing requires that what is, that the 131 audiohideo source information be an audio and/or SI video work, correct? !1 0 A: Yes. Q: What does "work"mean? !I] A: So first, I'llrefer you to what I !21 BI wrote on the next page and then I can provide more u] detail if you would like. Sorry.Where did I q quote?
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'burst transmission."'Do you see that sentence? A: Yes. Q: And you say that idea wherein an PI 1 1 entire program or a portion thereof was quickly 5 [61 delivered to a user "was a significant departure m from continuous delivery." [e1 Do you see that? [SI A: Yes. [IO] Q: And then in the final sentence, you [I 11 say, "The Burst patents were the first to realize [121 that the increasing,the increasing availability 1131 of large memories could be used to enable a new [i41 paradigm in transmission of audiohideo source [IS] information,i.e., 'burst' transmission." [I~I Do you see that? [17j A: Yes. Q: Is that what your understanding of [I 131 [I~I what the Burst concept is? A: This is my understanding of the [201 ~211Burst concept. I would like to clarify that when I [221 [ Z ~ Isay "entireprogram or portion thereof," here I am p41 referring to the fact that the parties disagree on [ Z ~ Iwhat constitutes a program and I made a disclaimer

(Pause) A: I'm sorry. So we have at the top of [41 page 151 Q: Twenty-eight. [SI A: Twenty-eight where, and I guess the m paragraph starts at the bottom of page 27. "The [a] information has creative meaning; for example, the 1 1 video is described as movies or television 9 101 programs, rather than" some type of, for example, 111 "videofrom a security system camera.Webster's 121 dictionary defiition of 'work' 'something is 131 produced by the exercise of creative talent or 141 expenditure of creative effort."' Q: Does - I'm sorry.Were you 151 161 finished? A: No, go ahead. I was finished. 171 Q : Does the word "work"appear in the 1131 191 Burst patents? A: If it appears, it certainly doesn't 201 211 appear in the context of the Webster's definition 221 which I have. I don't know if the word actually 231 appears or not. Q: Right.The word the patents use to 241 `251 describe what is transmitted is "program,"right?

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A: "Program"with a long descriptive term, a long descriptive associated with it [41 Q : Well,let's A: - which I think I refer to. [5] [6] Actually,also on page 28 in the first f l ul m paragraph.
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about five lines down. Q: So you refer there to lines 20 ~121through 24 in column 1 of the '839 patent. Is [ I ~ Ithat right? [141 A: Yes. Let us hope that is the actual [I51 correct numbers. [I61 Q: Let's go look at that. [iq A: And that is a direct quote as well. [181 Q : So they say there, "The term [ig] 'program'encompasses movies and other types of pol audio" - "of video and/or audio materials whether [211 broadcast from a TV station or another source." [221 A: Yes. Q: Do you understand the term "program" [231 [XI to include, for example, a 5 minute clip of a 30 [25] minute TV show?
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While it has been stored at some ~41point in its existence, at no point does it exist [SI in the memory in its entirety. [SI Q: Okay. m A: And that would be a possibility. Q : All right. So that's what I'm 51 91 trying to c l a m . Do you believe - suppose that the 01 11 audio/video source information is your 5 minute 21 clip of a 30 minute program, okay? 3 1 A: Uh-huh. 4 1 Q: In claim 1,it says, "Storingsaid 51 time compressed representation of the received 61 audio/video source information," right? Can that element be satisfied if no 71 e1 more than 1 minute of the 5 minute clip is ever 9 stored at a single time? 1 A: Can the elements be satisfied? 11 0 Q: In other words, are you storing said 91 !21 time compressed representation if at no point you !3] ever store more than 1/5th of it? A: Well, we would like to edit the !4] !5] thing as in claim 2 and clearly we can't edit
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audio/video source information in the claims of [SI the Burst patents include, for example, a 5 minute [6] clip of a 30 minute T V show? m A: I think it does. I think that [e] it's - as opposed to the entire 30 minute [9] television show that one could select sections. [IO] Q: Okay. If you look at the '839 [ill patent, claim 1which is column 13 (121 A: Yes. [ I ~ I Q: - we've, as we've discussed before, [MI what is transmitted at the end is the stored time [IS] compressed representation, right? [IS] A: Yes. Q: So I think we agreed that the time [iq 1181 compressed representation, at some point, had to [ig] be stored in its entirety, correct? A: Well, if we start our pointer - if [201 [211 we have limited memory, right - remember, our 1221 pointers just have to catch up at the end so it's p31 possible that once we've sent this stuff, we can [XI reuse this section of the memory in which case, [25] obviously we're rewriting in memory the entire FINK & CARNEY(800)NYC-FINK

something that isn't there, So from the operation of the device, I think it certainly sounds like we 141 do want the whole thing to be in memory. [SI Q: Would you also agree that you are [6] not storing the time compressed representation if m you're only storing 1/5th of it at a time? [e] A: If you're only storing - well, you [9] are storing 101 Q : At that point, you're storing a I portion of the time compressed representation, not 11 121 said time compressed representation, correct? A: If - yes, I think we can say that. 131 Q : So to satisfy that storing element, 141 151 you have to store the representation of the entire i61 audio/video source information? A: Whatever the entire information is. 171 181 Q: Right.And it's certainlyyourview 191 that the audiohideo source information doesn't 201 have to be an entire 30 minute television program ~211 or an entire two hour movie, right? ~221 A: Yes. Q: It could be a 5 minute clip? [23] [ Z ~ I A: Yes. Q: But whatever it is, that entire p51

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thing needs to be stored in the storing step. Is pi that right? [41 A: I think - that thing sits in memory [q 13,which is what the storing step pertains to. 11 6 Q: So the answer is "yes"? m A: Yes. [SI Q: Okay. Let's go back to page 26. [91 A: Yes. [io] Q: I think we can now replace your [I 1 phrase here, "an entire program or a portion 1 [i21 thereof with the concept of the audio/video [i31 source information, right? A: Whatever that may be, yes. [i41 Q: Whatever that may be. [i51 1161 A: Yes. Q: So is it true that your [i71 [IS] understanding of the Burst concept is that it is a [I~Itransmission in which the audiobideo source 1201 information is - well, I think the last sentence [2i1 is actually a better sentence. [n] You wrote here, "The Burst patents [ Z ~ Iwere the fist to realize that the increasing [ Z ~ Iavailability of large memories could be used to [ZI enable a new paradigm in transmission of
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hard disk is full. Q : Right. So in order to transmit the [41entire audio/video source information faster than [SI real time and then view it in real time, you have [SI to store it in its entirety on the user's end? m A: Because it's going to come in faster [SI than you eat it, yes. [91 Q : So the answer is "yes,"you need [IO] sufficient storage to store the complete audio or [i 11 at least the complete time compressed [iz] representation on the user's end, correct? A: The complete time representation. [i31 [i41 The receiving unit must be able to store what it [is] is transmitted. Q : And it's your view that the Burst [16] concept or that the - let me just use the actual [I SI language. [I~I It'syour view that the Burst pol patents were the fist to realize that the [211 increasing availability of large memories enabled [221 one to do faster than real-time transmission of a [z3] complete piece of audio/video source information? [ Z ~ I A: Yes. Q : Now, you understand that there is [XI
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audiohideo source information, Le., 'burst' PI transmission,"right? 141 A: Yes. [si Q: And that's because when you had [SI memories big enough to store the complete m audio/video source information on the receiving [SI end, you could send the entire thing that you're PI transmitting faster than real time, right? A I think I would say "onthe [io] [I 11 transmitting end," but it depends on your use of [i21 "receiving," whether you're talking about received [is] from an input or - yes. In order to transmit the [id] thing very speedily, the thing has to exist. Q: And in order for that to be [is] [i61 worthwhile on the user's end, you have to be able [in to watch it, right? [IS] A: Yes. [igi Q: So if you transmitted it ten times [201 faster than real time and you can only store pi1 l/lOth of it, you couldn't watch it, could you? [221 A If the memory at the receiving end [a]was not sufficiently large to accept what was [ a ] coming in, clearly that person would only get [zq whatever's in the memory, like when one'sTiVo
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cited prior art which is discussed in the file [31 history, Haskell being an example, which discloses 1 1 sending pieces of a larger program, where each 4 [ q piece is sent faster than real time but the entire [61program is only sent in real time, correct? m A: Yes, the Haskell transmission is [SI characterized in the fie histories as real time. 191 We were just opened to that page. Q: And you understand that Haskell [io] [I 11 sends pieces of the program faster than real time, [izi right? Let's go back to Haskell. If you 1131 [id] don't remember that, we ought to c l a m it. I [iq believe it's Exhibit 81. [i6] Do you have it? [in A: I do. Q : Let's make sure that we get this [IS] [I91 right. Do you see in the "Summaryof the [201 p i 1 Invention" section where it describes a scan line 1221 with a predetermined time duration? [Z~I A: Can you give me a line number? [XI Q: Sure.Line 13. [ Z ~ I A: Yes.
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Q: And then it says, "The signal

processor compresses in time the duration of each scan line of the video signal." [5] A: Yes. [SI Q: And then it says that that happens m by a predetermined compression factor. [a] A: Yes. 191 Q: And then later on down at the bottom [io] of the summary,it says that there's a receiver [I 11 where the compressed signal is expanded and the [iz] "expandedvideo signal is extracted from [13] therefrom." Do you see that? [4 I1 A: Yes. Q: So what Haskell is describing is [iq [IS] compressing the amount of time it takes to send an [IA individual scan line, right? [la] A: Yes. Q: Which is only a very small portion [19] p o l of a video program, right? 1211 A: It is. Q: So a portion of a single frame of a [221 1z31 video program, right? [24] A: Yes. [Z~I Q: So Haskell describes sending
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small analog signal. Q : Right. If we go back to the '839 [SI [41patent, claim l ? [SI A: Yes. Q : Under your interpretation of time 11 6 m compressed representation, that's a [a] data-compressed version of the audio/video source [g] information, correct? [io] A: Yes. [iii Q: And you explained that compressing [i21 an audiohide0 signal was known to a person of [iq ordinary skill in 1988,right? [i41 A: Yes. [iq Q: And certainly storing a compressed [E] file was known to a person of ordinary skill in [in the art in 1988,right? [iei A: Yes. [iq Q: And we haven't discussed this but I poi believe you'd agree that receiving audio/video [211 source information was known to a person of [ZZI ordinary skill in the art in 1988, right? [Z~I A: Yes. Q: So in your view, is it true that the p41 [XI novelty that the part of the Burst patent, claim .
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individual scan lines faster than they need to be 131 displayed,right? 11 4 A: The time it takes to mnsmit a scan [SI line is less than the time for the CRT to sweep [SI the scan line. m Q : But because the only thing that's [a] being sent faster than real time is one scan line 191 as opposed to a complete program, the transmission [io] is still happening in real time, right? [I 11 A: I'm sorry. Can you repeat the [i21 question? 1131 Q: Sure. One thing - the thing that's [id] being sent faster than real time in Haskell is a [iq scan line, right? [IS] A: Yes. [in Q: That's being sent faster than the [ia] amount of time it takes to display the scan line? [I91 A: Yes. [ZOI Q: So Haskell doesn't send the entire [211 program in a time compressed form; it sends IZZI portions of the program in a time compressed form, [zq right? 14 21 A: I'm not even sure I would call the [ Z ~ I scan line a portion but yes, an infinitesimally FINK & CARNEY (800)NYC-FINK

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of the Burst patent that was new as of 1988 is in [SI the transmitting step? [41 MR. PAYNE: Objection. [SI Nick, are you getting into [SI areas outside of claim construction at m this point? [a] MR. BROWN: I'm trying to 1 1 understand what she said the Burst 9 [io] concept was. I think we're almost [ii] done and I think she's already said ~121this. [i31 MR.PAYNE: I just want to [id] make clear that, you know, she's being [iq tendered today as a claim construction [is] expert and I don't think it's [in appropriate to get into patentability fie] or validity issues so I'm not sure [I91 what you're asking her. MR. BROWN: Sure.What I want [201 pi1 to ask her about is the Burst concept [221 that she described in her claim [z31 construction expert report. 14 21 MR. PAYNE: That's fair game. p51 Q: And maybe I'llput it this way.

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Do you agree that the Burst concept PI is not about the specifics of receiving the [41 audiohide0 information, compressing it or storing [SI it? 161 MR. PAYNE: Objection. Form. A: The, this is sort of a wholistic m [ai thing. [QI Without the data compression, we 1101 have, we have discussed that the file shes are [ill exorbitantly 1arge.Thatpoint is also made in [121 the specifications.AndI also mention in my [is] report that these uncompressed files were (141 extremely large and certainly in the case of [is] video. Q : Do you agree that the Burst concept [is] [in is the concept of faster than real-time [iai transmission of audiohide0 data? 1191 MR. PAYNE: Objection. Form. A: I believe that the Burst concept [zo] [211 involves faster than real-time transmission of [221 audio/video data but also requires some other [231 it must be - there must be things that occur to [241 enable this, right? I would like to jump off the [XI Empire State Building and land safely.Clearly,I
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MR. BROWN: You think what's a typo? "About"or the "200"? 41 MR. PAYNE: I think the 51 "bytes"might be a typo but I'm not 61 sure. 71 MR. BROWN: Okay. Q: Well, in any event, the text there a1 91 says, "about 200 megabytes per second," correct? 0 1 A: Yes. Q: And that is 1/5th of a gigabyte per 11 21 second, right? A: Or 1.6 gigabits per second. 31 Q : Let's go to column 5 of the '995 41 51 patent. It says in column 5 at line 21 - or 61 71 20 and 21 that if no data compression is used, "it a1 would take approximately 51.03 gigabytes to store 91 a 2 hour movie." Do you see that? !OI A: Yes. Q : If you're transmitting at .2 !I] !21 gigabytes per second, it's going to take you much ai less than two hours to transmit that 51 gigabytes, U I correct? A: And that's a giant "if" because in !51
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need a parachute. PI Q: Right.Well, let's talk about the [41 concept of whether the data compression is [SI required for the faster than real-time 161 transmission. m Why don't you look at the '839 [SI patent at - I don't have it highlighted. [QI Do you have the '995 patent? A: I do. I have both. [io] Q : Why don't you look at that at column 1111 [121 7.And do you have column 7? 1131 A: Ido. Q : And at line 55, it describes the [i41 [15] fiber optic line. Do you see that? [i61 A: I do. 1171 Q: And it describes the speed of the [iai fiber optic line as 200 megabytes per second, 1191 correct? A: Yes, about 200 megabytes per second. [201 Q: So that is about 1/5th of a gigabyte 1211 ~221 per second, correct? [a] MR. PAYNE: I'm going to [a]object to form there because I think [251 that's a typo.
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the context of this invention, we wouldn't be able to store the 51 gigabytes.This 51 gigabytes is [41 described as precisely in the context of [si presenting the compression, to motivate and 161 explain why data compression is part of the m invention. [SI Q : So in your view, data compression is [q needed to store the 51 gigabytes,is that right? 101 A: In order to store it in a reasonable 111 unit,yes. 121 Q : And that's,in fact, what the 131 implication of the sentence here, which says that 141 by using the compression, it's estimated that 151 memory will require only 250 megabytes, right? 161 A: Yes. 171 Q: So here they expressly l n the use ik IS] of data compression to reducing the memory 191 requirement? 201 A: That is right. Q: But it's also true that the :211 ,221 transmission rate that's described for the fiber p31 optic line that's described in the '995patent p41 would transmit the uncompressed movie faster than [zq real time, right?

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[q store the movie prior to, I'm sorry, prior to

transmission.And if we can't store it - as you [si pointed out, if we don't have enough memory to 161 store or, say, on the receiving end to receive the m whole thing, we're just not going to be able to [ai transmit the audio/video source information [91 because we don't, we can't keep it all. [io] Q : But you do agree that the disclosed [iii fiber optic line can transmit the uncompressed [121 movie faster than real time, right? 1131 A: If we divide the numbers. If we ask [i41 how long it takes to transmit a 51 gigabyte file [is] over a l n of approximately,or sorry, about 200 ik [i6] megabytes per second and if we were told that that 1171 51 gigabyte file represented something that had a [is] two hour duration, certainly we would conclude [igi that that number is smaller than two hours, but in ~201the context of these patents, that number is not ~211meaningful. Q: Let's go to page 12 of your expert [221 p31 report. [ Z ~ I A: Yes. Q : In the second paragraph under "Audio [Z~I
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MP3 or there are many MP3 compression pi algorithms but they all involve data compression, [41 correct? [SI A: Yes. Q: So now we have a compressed MP3. 161 m That MP3 also has an associated time period, which [e] is the length of the song, right? pi A: With respect to what we're calling [io] associated time periods with the patents, yes. That MP3 file represents audio [I 11 [VI content, which when played back at a normal, at [ i q its normal rate, whatever that may be, is three [I41 minutes. [is] Q : Right. So by compressing the file [i6] into an MP3, you aren't changing the time period [ijlassociated with it, right? [le1 A: Yes. [is] Q : The time period associated with the [201 song is still the playback length of the song, p i ] right? A: Because it is still the [221 ~231 representation of the content in the abstract p41 form, the song. 1251 Q: Right. So the time period that is
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Sources,"in the third line you state pi that, "An audio signal in its entirety has an [41 associated 'length."'Do you see that? [51 A: Yes. Q: And you say that length represents [SI m "the time required to play the signal from a [ai recording or to listen to it," right? pi A: Yes.The implicit assumption being [io] there that we're not going to chipmunk it, yes. [ii] Q : You said "we'renot going to [izi chipmunk it"? [i31 A: Yes. Q: By "chipmunk it," do you mean, for [MI [is] example, playing a 33 RPM LP record at 45? [i61 A: Yes. [in Q: But you - let's take the example of [i81 a three minute s0ng.A three minute song has [igi A: An audio, an audio song? [ZOI Q: Correct, a three minute audio song, [zi] right?That audio song has an associated time [221 period of three minutes, right? [ Z ~ I A: Yes. Q: Okay. Now, let's suppose that we psi compress that song into an MP3 fie, okay?And

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associated with a compressed MP3 song is the length of the song, right? pi A: If we are talking about how long the [q song is, the answer to that question does not [e] change whether we MP3 it, whether we DPCM it, m whether we do something horrible to it such that [e] we can't play it back, then it was a three minute [q song. [io] Q : But if you have a, a representation [i of the song, doesn't that imply that something 11 [121 horrible wasn't done to it and you're going to be 1131 able to recreate the song? [id] A: You would hope. Q : I understand we may not have [is] [i61 discussed this expressly but it, do you agree that [IT] a person of ordinary skill in the art when seeing [ie] the word "representation"in the context of the [ig] Burst patents, the representation of an pol audio/video source information,would understand [211 that that representation could be converted back [221 into something that had meaning? [23] A: Yes. Q: And if not a perfect representation [Z~I [2q of the original audiohideo source information, at

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least it would be a highly-correlated representation. Is that right? A: Good en0ugh.Yes.Agood enough [41 [SI representation. Q: 0kay.And because of that, it's [SI m fair to say that when you compress the song, [e] you're not changing the length of time associated [91 with the song, right? POI MR. PAYNE: Objection. Form. A: You're not changing the length of [I II [121 time in which you would play back the song.With [iq respect to the length of time associated with the [ I ~ Isong, the patent uses, the patents use burst time 1151 periods, they use time periods associated with the [IS] real-time representation and I think that there's [in another association which was discussed yesterday. [181 So it's a little loose. Q: Let's shift gears for a second and [igi [201 can you get out the Gitlin reference, Exhibit 84, [211 and go to page 609? [2 21 A: 609,okay. Q: Do you have page 609? [ai PI A: I do. [ Z ~ I Q : And do you recall that you testified
131

There's a time period that is [SI depicted in that figure for both of those signals, 1 1 correct? 4 151 A: Yes. Q: And it's hard to be exact but it [SI m seems that the figure on the right has a time [e] period that is about half of the time period of [91 the signal on the left. Is that right? 101 A: I would say that the expanse of the i11 X-axis on the right, yes, appears to be about half 1 1 of the expanse of the X-axis on the left. 2 131 Q : And you said before that the one on 141 the right is a time compressed version of the one [I~I on the left, right? A: In the context of time-compression [IS] [ ; multiplexing,which is described here on page 609, 11 [lei which is a technique for f l duplex ul [ig] communication, which means that both parties are [ 0 communicating simultaneously,this block diagram 21 [211 pertains to time-compressionmultiplexing. [221 What we see at the top is simply a p31 graphic representing clocking bits out at a faster , 4 rate than they were originally put in. 21 251 Q: Or in other words, clocking the same
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earlier about the top portion of the figure on PI page 609? [41 A: Yes. Q: And I believe you said that the [SI [SI horizontal axis in those depictions represents m time, right? [SI A: Yes. 191 Q: And you said that the signal - if pol you look at the left half of that picture, there [I 11 are two images in the top portion, right?And one [in1 of them is a representation of the other that has [ I ~ Ia shorter time scale, correct? 1141 A: Yes. [ I ~ I Q: So the one on the right, the, the [IS] time that's associated with that representation [IA looks to be about halfthe time that's associated [lei with the other representation, right? [ I ~ I A: Well, I don't want to use [ 0 "associated with the representation in your 21 [211 question to correspond to the same "associated" [zzi when we were talking about the three minute with [ Z ~ I respect to the audio. Q : Fair enough. Let's use different [XI [ Z ~ Ilanguage.

bits out in a shorter time period? [31 A: I think that's more eloquent. [41 MR. PAYNE: Nick, I haven't 1 1 been keeping track of the exact time. 5 [SI I don't know where we a r e h e you m MR. BROWN: I don't know [e] either.Why don't we do this? Let me [91 ask a couple more questions.Then [IO] we'll take a break and add up the [illtime. How's that? [121 MR. PAYNE: Sounds good. MR. BROWN: Can you read back [is] [I~I the last question and answer? 1151 (Record read as follows: [I~I "Question:Andyou said [iq before that the one on the right is a [re] time compressed version of the one on [ 91 the left, right? I [201 "Answer:In the context of [211 time-compressionmultiplexing,which p21 is described here on page 609, which [ Z ~ Iis a technique for full duplex [ Z ~ I communication,which means that both [zq parties are communicating

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simultaneously,this block diagram pertains to the time-compression [41multiplexing. "Whatwe see at the top is [SI [SI simply a graphic representing clocking m bits out at a faster rate than they [si were originally put in. [91 "Question:Or in other words, [io] clocking the same bits out in a [I 11 shorter time period? [i21 "Answer:I think that's more [is] eloquent." Q: Is it true that the graphic at the [MI (151 top of the figure shows reading the same bits out [is] in a shorter time period? [iil A: Yes. [is] Q: Which is another way of saying that [igi they were read out at a higher rate? ~201 A: Yes. pi1 Q: And the text describes that process 1221 of reading the same bits out in a shorter time ~231 period as time compression, correct? [241 A: That I'm not sure. Let me read the [ZSI text.
[SI

okay, those little square waves. If we clock the rate at which the pi 1 1 bits are produced in the digitized voice band 4 [SI signal,the rate at which those bits are clocked [SI onto the channel is a higher rate than the rate at m which they were produced. [a] Q : And that's accomplished using a [g] buffer and reading the bits out of the buffer [io] faster than they're read in, right? A: In this diagram, that is what is [II] p21 done, yes.We have a buffer and then the buffer [ i q leads into the box which says burst transmission. MR. BROWN: Okay. Let's go [id] [I51 off the record to check the time. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is [is] [iq now 5:15. Off the record. [I a] (Recess taken) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is [IS] [201 now 5:19. On the record.
[211
p21

BY MR. BROWN: Q: Let's look at the heki reference,

Exhibit 88. A: I had it handy and then - here it psi is. I have it.
[zq
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Q: Okay.

11 3
11 4
[SI

(Pause)
A: So the text does not use those

Q: Okay. SpecificallyI'd like to have 1 1 you look at Figure 1.Do you see that? 3
[41
[SI

A: Yes.

words.The text describes that this technique [SI alternates fast transmission bursts in each m direction saving up data submitted to each 1 1 transmitter at a lower rate in buffers so that 8 191 each of the end terminals has the illusion of a [io] continuously available channel. [ill Q: Okay. So the data that was read out [izi at a faster rate is referred to in the text as the [i31 fast transmission burst, right? [id] A: I think the transmission of the data [IS] that was read out is the fast transmission burst. [is] Q: 0kay.And the length of time that [i71that fast transmission burst occupies is smaller [tal than the length of time of the, occupied by the ]S I[ incoming signal? A: If we clocked the data rate as in pol [211 the rate at which data was being produced and we p21 do not see the production mechanism here but this [zq is described with respect to voice band [ Z ~ Icommunication, so it's reasonable to assume that [zq this is either a modem signal or digitized voice,

Q: And you remember there's a comment

[si in your expert report about the premastering unit? m A: Yes. Q: And you see that that's at the [a]
[IO]

I

bottom right of that figure? A: Ido. Q : Do you also see in the figure pi] [iz] display and keyboard, which are marked as 49 and [I31 50? [MI A: Yes. Q: And do you see how they have a [iq [IS] dotted line around them? [iq A: Ido. Q: Does that indicate to you that those [is] [ig] are separate from the interface they're connected [ZO] to? [211 A: It does not. p21 Q : Why not? A: Because I actually looked at that [zq p41 patent with respect to exactly that question and I [E] concluded that the dashed line did not indicate
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that it was separate although that was my initial [31 hypothesis.That'swhy I read the patent in that [4] light. Q: 0kay.Are you familiar with the [SI [SI term "console"? m A: Yes. Q: And what does a console mean to you? [ai A: Well, we have the term of furniture [91 [io1 which, which we'll discount. A console is a large unit - that [I II [121 makes a lot of sense. It's a mechanism by which [mi equipment can be housed together. [MI Q: I've heard the term "console"used [i51 in the context of mainframe computing to refer to [I~I the device which is used to connect to the 1171 mainframe. Have you heard the term used in that [lei [i way? 91 A: No, I haven't used it - I have not [201 1211 heard it used in that way. Q: You'veheard "terminal"used in that [zz] [231 way, correct? [XI A: I have. Q: So in your mind "console"and SI
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console being something which houses things 31 together, would you agree that console 48 houses 41 the display and the keyboard? 51 A: Yes. Q: And that indicates that that group, 61 71 that console 48 is separate from the remainder of e1 the device, correct, at least physically separate 9 from the remainder of the device? 1 01 A: I don't think I would understand it 11 that way, again, because I read this in the 2 context of attempting to understand what the 1 31 dashed lines meant and I concluded that the dashed 41 lines were not separate physical entities. 51 Perhaps you can suggest - show me 61 where the console 71 Q: Sure. So the console is at page 2. 81 I'm sorry, column 2, line 65 is the first place 91 where I noticed console. !01 A: Okay. Q: Do you see that? !I] !1 2 A: Okay. I do. Q: And so it says there that the !SI ! 1 console includes a display unit and a keyboard, 4
21

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"terminal"are not the same thing? PI A: They are not. 11 4 Q: What's the difference? [SI A: Well, a console is - what was my [SIprevious definition?It was a m Q: Something about a large unit. A: Yes, and there was housing. Is it [a1 PI possible to Q: We can go back, sure. [io] [I 11 (Record read) A: So I would say a console is a unit [121 [13] which allows one to house equipment in a common [MI housing. Q: Okay. So if you look at Figure 1 [IS] [ I ~ Ido you have Figure l? [I~I A: Yes. Q: Forty-eight I will represent to you [lei [igi is described as a console. Do you see 48? [201 A: Okay. Q: And 48 is pointing to the dashed pi1 [221 line that surrounds the display and the keyboard. Do you see that? [241 A: Okay. Q: So given what you just said about a [251

A: It does.

Q: Which is exactly what's pictured in figure? [SI A: Yes. Q: And then it talks about, in the [SI m sentence that spans column 2 and 3, it says, "The [a] inputted instructions and character data are [91transferred from the console 48 to the system io] bus," right? 111 A: Yes. Q: Which suggests that that data is 121 131 moved out of the console and into the system,
[31

[41the

right? MR. PAYNE: Objection to form. [I~I A: Well, the data is - I don't know if [iq we would say it is moved. It certainly travels
141

151

[ie]

[ig]

via the interface to the system bus. Q: But certainly that portion of the [201 specification of beki suggests that, that console [211 48 is separate physically from the remainder of ~221the system, correct? [a] A: I don't think I read it that way. 1241 Again, I just - that is not consistent with my psi understanding of console especially in the context

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of editing apparatus. Q: Well, let's look at the other PI example of the dotted line. Do you see the other 151 example of the dotted line in Figure l? [SI A: Yes. m Q: And that's identified as 55? [ai A: Yes. [91 Q: And 55 is identified as a [IO] reproduction device. Do you see that? [iii A: Yes. [VI Q: And that device has a number of [i31 components, correct? [id] A: It does. Q: Don't you - or do you agree that [IS] [IS] the fact that that is referred to as a [iq reproduction device which has its own CPU and RAM [la] shows that it is a separate device? [is] A: Separate from what? Q: From the remainder of the system. [201 ~211 A: I MR. PAYNE: Objection to the [221 g31 form. A: I still don't understand, "separate ~251from the rest of the system."
pi pi
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Q: 0kay.And you agree that the dotted

55 is referred to as a reproduction device, correct? A: It is referred to as a reproduction [SI 1 1 device. 6 m Q: And that's the same word, "device," [e1 that was later used to refer to something that was PI physically separate from the components of the io] system, right? 111 A: Yes. Q: And you agree the reproduction 121 131 device has inside it its own CPU and its own RAM 141 and it's own data bus, right? 151 A: It does have those units. 161 Q: And the remainder of the system in iq Figure 1 has a CPU and RAM and a system bus,
[ai line that is referenced by number
[41

la] right?
191 201

well, let me - we'll throw in one more. Do you see that there's a box 231 labeled 102 that says "video repro"? 241 A: Yes. Q: I'll remesent to YOU that that is, 251
211

A: It does. Q: So taking those things together -

221

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Q: Well, sure. Let's A: It is something that is in the left

Hemami

column of units that is hanging off of the system bus. Q: Right.What I mean is - let's look [SI m at another example of the word "device." 181 Look at column 3.We were just 191 looking at this earlier. It says, "An image 1101 pickup device not shown, such as a television [ill camera." Do you see that? [iz] A: Yes. Q: 0kay.The camera is not shown in [i31 [MI Figure 1,right? [w A: Yes. Q: And that is an image pickup device [IS] [iq which is physically separate from the system shown [le] in Figure 1, right? A: I would say it is physically [I~I p o l separate. Q: So at least in that instance, heki pi] [221 is using the term "device"to refer to a device, a 1231 thing that is physically separate from the core of [241 the system, right? A: In that sentence, yes. [25i
[41
[SI

means "video reproduction." In the patent that's [31 described that way. And do you see there's an audio [41 [SI repro number 106? [SI A: Yes. m Q: That's audio reproduction. [a] A: Yes. Q: Taking all that together, including 191 101 the fact that it's shrouded by a dotted line, I would you agree that that shows that the 11 121 reproduction device 55 is physically separate from 131 the remainder of the system? 141 A: NO, wouldn't. I 151 Q: Why not? A: This could be a board that one would 161 i q plug in.And in the context of this patent, 181 again, I, I read this specifically to try and 191 understand that and I reached the conclusion that 201 it was not necessarily an external device, that 211 this could just as easily be something internal 221 that sits within the entire editing apparatus 2 1 Unit. 3 241 Q: How do you explain the presence of 251 the dotted line around the reproduction device and

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the console but not the other components in Figure
1?

[3]

A: I think that the dotted line is there to very clearly delineate what item 55 is [61 and what item 48 is in the description. Everything else here is a m [a] singleton, right? Sometimes we see in patents pi that something is generally referred to as a [IO] single number and it has multiple components and [111 it's not boxed off.These are boxed off as [ i q what's the word I want - composite components. [MI MR. PAYNE: It's been over ten [MI minutes. [I~I MR. BROWN: Then why don't we [I61 Stop. [in MR. PAYNE: Let me - I've got [ia] a couple of follow-up questions. [iq MR. BROWN: Oh, go ahead.
[41
[SI
[201

PI1 1221

EXAMINATION BY MR. PAYNE:

p31
[XI

[zq

Q: Dr. Hemami, as you know, my name is Les Payne and I represent Burst. Can you turn to your report marked as Exhibit 78, please, specifically page 26,
Page 317

your report, please? A: Okay. Q : Do you recall earlier today that pi [SI Apple's counsel asked you about the descriptions [GI 1 , 2 , 3 and 4 on pages 42 and 43? m A: Yes. [ai Q: And what do those descriptions [91pertain to? 101 A: So as stated in the prior paragraph, 111 these are descriptions of various operations for 1 4 which the term "time compression" was used to 131 describe. The phrasing there is not very good 141 151 but these were, these were operations that were : i q called "time compression" in the 1988 time frame. Q: What is the first sentence after the :in pel fourth category on page 43? A: So after presenting these four [is] [201 descriptions, I state that none of these [211 definitions is applicable to the Burst patents. [ZZ] Q : So do you have an opinion as to [ Z ~ I whether those four definitions pertain, as to the [ Z ~ Burst patents, to the area of digital I [z5] communication of audio/video source information?
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A: As that information is communicated

[z] please? PI A: Okay.

Q : Section 3 of your report deals with [q "The Level of Ordinary Skill in the Art," correct? [SI A: Yes. m Q : You say, "In general, a person of [a] ordinary skill in the art would work in the area [q of digital communication of audiobide0 source [I 01 information, correct? [111 A: Yes. [iz] MR. BROWN: Les,you're (131 leading.I don't mind if you're [id] getting to the point, but it's not 1151 MR. PAYNE: I'm just laying a [IS] foundation. [in MR. BROWN: But let's not do [it31 that too much more. [iq MR. PAYNE: I hear you. pol MR. BROWN: Thanks. [211 Q: And earlier today, you recall that [221 Apple's counsel asked you about that area, [ a ] correct? [XI A: Yes. Q: Can you turn to pages 42 and 43 of [zq
[41
"

131 in the Burst patents, neither
[41descriptions is

- none of those

relevant. ten minutes of tape

[SI

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Excuse me,

[SI Counsel.You have

m left.
A: And none of those descriptions is applicable. [io] MR. PAYNE: Pass the witness. [i Do you want to follow up? 11 [iz] MR. BROWN: I was thinking 1131 about that, Les. [I41 MR. PAYNE: Sorry. PSI (Pause) MR. BROWN: I do not. We're [IS] [17j done. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is [19 [ig] now 5:34.This marks the ending of [ZOI tape number five. Off the record. [211 Whereupon, at 5 3 4 p.m., the [221 deposition was concluded.)
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11 3 [4]

[I1 11 2

EXHIBITS Exhibit Description Page 3

I DO SOLEMNLY DECLARE UNDER

11 3
[4] For Ident. [5] 101

[5] PENALTY OF PERJURYTHAT THE FOREGOING [SI I MY DEPOSITION UNDER OATH; THAT S

m THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS ASKED OF ME
[a] AND MY ANSWERS THERETO; THAT I HAVE 1 1 READ SAME AND HAVE MADE THE NECESSARY 9 [io] CORRECTIONS, ADDITIONS, OR CHANGES TO (111 MY ANSWERSTHAT I DEEM NECESSARY. [I21 (141

US. Patent No. 4,963,995 with file history bearing Bates Nos. APBUOOOOOOl through 125

[SI

m
[e]

102

US. Patent No. 5,057,932 with file history bearing Bates Nos. APBU00000126 through 269
US. Patent No. 5,164,839 with

3

IN WITNESSTHEREOF, I HEREBY DAY OF ,2006.

[I31 SUBSCRIBE MY NAME THIS
[I 5 1

1 1 103 9

3

file history bearing Bates Nos.
IO]
I I ] 104

[I 6 1
[I 71

APBU00000270through 390 U.S. Patent No. 5,995,705 with file history bearing Bates Nos. APBU00000391through 688 REQUESTS Page 3

[I 81
[I 91

SHEILA HEMAMI, Ph. D.

121
I3 1

POI
PI
~31 1241 [251

I41

Is] Description

161 Dr. Hemami's expert report in the Forgent 23

case

171

Page 321
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18 1

Mr. Halpern's expert reports in prior cases 23
191

PI
[3] Witness:

INDEX Page 4

201 211 221

[4] Sheila S. Hemami, Ph.D. [51

EXHIBITS

[el

21 3

m
PI

Exhibit For Ident.

Description

Page

241 251

Documentsbearing Bates Nos. [9] APBU00159385 through 393 [io] 80 Documents bearing Bates Nos. APBU00414957 through 959
[I 11

79

44
58

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PI
[41

CERTIFICATE

[3] STATE OF NEW YORK [5] COUNTY OF NEW YORK )

1
) ss.

81
[iz]

Document bearing Bates Nos.

165

APBU00000763through 769 [I31 82 Document entitled 'Time Compression 165 Mutliplexingfor Loop Transmission of
[I41

PI

I, Charleane M. Headlng, a
Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New York, do hereby certify that the foregoing Deposition, of the witness, SHEllA S. HEMAMI. Ph. D., taken at the time and place aforesaid, is a true and correct transcription of my shorthand notes.

m
I81 [91
101

Speech Signals" [i5] 83 Document entitled 'The UK 172 D-MACPACKET Standard for D B S by
[I61

Paul Gardiner [in 84 Document bearing Bates Nos. APBU00414882through 945
[I 8 1

111 121

182

13 1
341

Document bearing Bates Nos. [ig] APBU00000807 through 813 [zo] 86 Document bearing Bates Nos. APBU00000726through 730
PI1

85

199 199

:5 I 1
161

I further certify that I am
neither counsel for nor related to any party to said action, nor in any wise interested in the resutl or outcome thereof. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 20th day of November, 2006. Charleane M. Heading, RPR

:I 7
:I81

:I 91
87 Document bearing Bates Nos. 200 227
?Ol
?I1

[22]

APBU00001613through 1628 [23] 88 Document bearing Bates Nos. APBU00001613 through 1628
~41 1251

[22] [231 ~41

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