Oracle America, Inc. v. Google Inc.
Filing
497
Declaration of DANIEL PURCELL in Support of #496 MOTION in Limine No. 5, #494 MOTION in Limine No. 3, #492 MOTION in Limine No. 1, #493 MOTION in Limine NO. 2, #495 MOTION in Limine No. 4 filed byGoogle Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit 1, #2 Exhibit 2, #3 Exhibit 3, #4 Exhibit 4, #5 Exhibit 5, #6 Exhibit 6, #7 Exhibit 7, #8 Exhibit 8, #9 Exhibit 9, #10 Exhibit 10, #11 Exhibit 11, #12 Exhibit 12, #13 Exhibit 13, #14 Exhibit 14, #15 Exhibit 15, #16 Exhibit 16, #17 Exhibit 17, #18 Exhibit 18, #19 Exhibit 19, #20 Exhibit 20, #21 Exhibit 21, #22 Exhibit 22, #23 Exhibit 23, #24 Exhibit 24, #25 Exhibit 25, #26 Exhibit 26, #27 Exhibit 27, #28 Exhibit 28, #29 Exhibit 29, #30 Exhibit 30, #31 Exhibit 31, #32 Exhibit 32, #33 Exhibit 33, #34 Exhibit 34, #35 Exhibit 35, #36 Exhibit 36, #37 Exhibit 37, #38 Exhibit 38, #39 Exhibit 39, #40 Exhibit 40)(Related document(s) #496 , #494 , #492 , #493 , #495 ) (Kamber, Matthias) (Filed on 10/7/2011)
EXHIBIT 6
Attorneys' Eyes Only
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION
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ORACLE AMERICA, INC.,
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Plaintiff,
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vs.
) No. CV 10-03561 WHA
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GOOGLE, INC.,
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Defendant.
)
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ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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Videotaped Deposition of EREZ LANDAU,
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taken at 42 Chauncy Street, Boston,
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Massachusetts, commencing at 9:50 a.m.,
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Wednesday, September 14, 2011, before
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Jill Shepherd, RPR, MA-CSR No. 148608,
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NH-CSR No. 128, CA-CSR No. 13275, CLR,
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Notary Public.
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PAGES 1 - 113
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used the skeleton. It was one of them, but
I don't remember which one. It was just for
form to fill out my stuff to give it the
same format.
Q. You didn't review the content of
Mr. Vandette or Mr. Poore's reports?
A. Not technically.
Q. Is Oracle paying you anything in addition to
your regular salary for working on this
case?
A. No.
Q. Approximately how many hours or days have
you spent on this case?
A. Hours, it's about 100 or 200. Not including
this week. This week jump it up.
Q. Is your involvement in this case officially
part of your job responsibilities?
A. It's approved by my manager, but it's not
part of my job responsibility.
Q. Have you in the past performed any work for
other litigations -A. No.
Q. -- involving Oracle or Sun?
A. No.
Q. Do you have any patents on Java-related
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Q. 35,000 shekels a month?
A. Yes.
Q. It is about 3.7 shekels per dollar
approximately; is that correct?
A. That's 3.5 and 3.7 depending on the day of
the week.
Q. Do you own any Oracle stock or options?
A. A few.
Q. Do you know approximately how much?
A. Around $2,000 worth.
Q. What kind of phone do you use?
A. iPhone.
Is it possible to get some more water?
(Pause.)
(Exhibit 488 marked.)
Q. To make things official, have you seen this
notice before?
A. (Witness reviewing document).
No.
Q. Okay. Exhibit 488 is just a notice of your
deposition.
Have you been informed that you are
here today to testify as an employee of
Oracle regarding matters in this case?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
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technology?
A. Yes.
Q. How many?
A. Well, I submitted four. I think only one is
finished on the line, on the way, fully
approved, but four submitted.
Q. One patent issued and -A. Four patents issued, one of them was
approved. They are in process still. It
takes several years.
Q. What are those patents generally about?
A. Most of them are related to memory usage and
class loading and fast startup. The same
area -- very close area to the '720 patent.
Q. Do you get any bonus or award for submitting
patent applications?
A. Yes.
Q. How much?
A. $2,000 per patent.
Q. Do you have any financial interest in the
outcome of this litigation?
A. No.
Q. What is your salary?
A. 35,000 dollars -- shekels. Shekels, it's
Israeli currency.
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A. Yes.
(Exhibit 489 marked.)
Q. Exhibit 489 is a copy of U.S. patent number
7,426,720, which I will refer to as the '720
patent.
Have you reviewed the '720 patent
before?
A. Partially.
Q. What do you mean by "partially"?
A. I did not read it start to end, only
specific.
Q. What specific portions did you review?
A. The abstracts, and then part of the claims,
especially claim number one.
Q. You did not -- let me rephrase.
Did you review the figures in the
patent?
A. No.
Q. Did you review -A. I would look at them. I'm familiar with
them. That's why I did not bother to...
Q. Did you read through the specification of
the patent, the general discussion?
A. Not in this form. I was reviewing it when
it was submitted, sometime after it's been
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submitted. But in the final form? No.
It's not always the same.
Q. Do you mean you were reviewing a draft of
this patent?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know which claims of this patent are
asserted in this case?
A. I was told. I don't remember by heart.
Q. Did you review Oracle's infringement
contentions for this patent?
A. No. I think I was asked about it.
Q. What is this patent about?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. It's about the usage of copy-on-write
mechanism cloning for the benefit of fast
and efficient memory class loading and other
stuff.
Q. What functionality in Android is accused of
infringing this patent?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Zygote.
Q. How do you know what functionality was
accused in this case?
A. I looked into zygote code and I can find the
code that relate to this. I am very
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being duplicated via the process of the page
table, TBL, and after that point in the
process is created in the schedule, and that
the entire page table is identical.
Page table is what translates from virtual
addressing into physical addressing, and the
result of it is you have two processes with
the exact same identity, the same thought,
same recollection, same memory, same state
exactly.
And after this point, they are going
their own separate ways, but the cloning is
same state, not just the application. Once
they start to go their own ways, there is
the technique, all the memory they are
referencing is -- the read-only, and when
they try to touch it, modify it, they get an
exception automatically. This page has been
copied, and you get your own private copy of
it.
This is why it's also called
copy-on-write. Copy-on-write is just a
nickname for the entire process of cloning
via fork. This is the phenomenon and this
technique is used for fast saving and faster
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familiar with Sun's special implementation
of this patent and I was looking for
something similar.
Q. Did you perform that analysis independently
of Oracle's attorneys?
A. Attorneys? Yes. I was consulting with
John Mitchell. I was consulting with him.
Q. Did he tell you what to look at?
A. We agreed upon -- what we agreed upon is
that copy-on-write is an essential part of
this patent and must be disabled in order to
disable this patent, and also we agreed that
once we disable copy-on-write, all the other
parts are disabled, so it's efficient to
disable this entire patent by disabling
copy-on-write. So disable this entire
patent by disabling of copy-on-write. So
disable of copy-on-write is a must and
sufficient.
Q. What is copy-on-write?
A. The long version is two days, the short
version is one hour. I will try to do it.
It's pretty complicated.
Copy-on-write starts with fork in
which the entire image of an application is
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startup and memory saving in general, but
there is much more.
Q. When was this technique developed?
A. 1980 plus once a year [sic]. 1979 or to
1981, but I think it's 1980, plus one -plus/minus one year.
Q. Was it implemented in operating systems like
UNIX?
A. It was implemented only in UNIX, not "like."
Q. Is it in Linux?
A. Everything from Unix is in Linux as well.
Q. Were there virtual machines that used it?
A. Yes. CVM, but CVM was the first one, and
then Android was the only one.
Q. Are you familiar with the Perl virtual
machine?
A. Which?
Q. Perl.
A. No.
Q. Which Oracle products use it? Let me
rephrase.
Which Oracle products use
copy-on-write?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. I told you, CVM.
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Q. Turning to page four, paragraph 18, you say,
"We selected a single production phone."
Who is "we"?
A. I would say me and Seeon, and also
John Mitchell.
Q. And you tested two Nexus One phones; is that
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. You had two separate phones; is that
correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Did Oracle send those phones to you in
Israel to test?
A. I had them before.
Q. Paragraph 19, you say, "Memory consumption
is not expected to vary between phones" and
"startup time is expected to stay
proportional to other timing on the phone";
is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do all phones have the same amount of
memory?
A. No.
Q. Do you know how Android manages memory?
A. It's very -- it's too open a question.
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A. To the best of my knowledge; and it's not my
expertise, no.
Q. To the best of your knowledge, some phones
may have a faster processor than other
phones; is that correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Yes.
Q. Would it make sense that faster processors
can result in a faster startup time?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. There is a general trend in the market to
use faster and stronger and more powerful
and more memory capacity devices, and on the
other end to use more and more software,
demands more performance, more memory, and
more stuff to do at startup, so your device
is always too slow and you never have enough
memory.
Q. But if you are using the same software -MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
Q. -- would a faster processor run that
software faster?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. As a customer of phones, I will use the
cheapest phone that can run my set of
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Q. Do you understand that if a phone has less
memory, Android may have to be more
aggressive in clearing out memory to make
space available -A. Yes.
Q. -- for new applications?
A. Sorry. It will clear application that's not
in use if it's scarce on memory.
Q. And if an Android-based device has more
memory, it has the flexibility to leave more
data and code in memory; is that correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. More data and code? I cannot relate to this
definition. It's somewhat wrong
technically.
Q. What I'm asking is if there's more memory on
an Android-based device, it may consume
memory differently than on an Android-based
device that has less memory; is that
correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. It's hard to say yes or no. It depends.
Q. Do all Android-based devices have the same
processor?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
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software. I won't waste money to make it
faster if I can use a cheaper one, but...
Q. When was the Nexus One phone released?
A. I don't remember.
Q. If I told you it was released in
January 2010, would that make sense?
A. I don't know. I didn't follow the initial
declaration of it.
Q. Why did you test the Nexus One phone?
A. Available.
Q. In other words, you were able to get the
phone to test?
A. Yes.
Q. Was the Nexus S phone enabled?
A. To me, this one was available. It was a
good enough representative and Google can
try it on any other phone they like.
Q. When you say "available," do you mean
available to you in Israel?
A. Yes.
Q. Is the Nexus S phone available in Israel?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Maybe. I didn't check. I'm not an Android
fan. You can ask me about my iPhone. I
will know better.
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and it's a big advantage. When you are
doing the implicit sharing, you have to do a
lot of preparation, a lot of work. It's a
very difficult technique, very complex to
implement it, and it can be done on a very
specific location and very specific way.
You have to develop extra technique, which I
describe in my patent. So to do just simply
this way, it's not simple at all. It's one
of the most complicated patents I was
working on.
Q. How long has shared memory been a computer
technique?
A. Since for Fordtran in '64, I think, '65.
Q. Shared memory has been around for a while
then?
A. It is a different shared memory than what
you are thinking about today, shared memory.
It's way different. It's almost like saying
that television is around for the last
50 years. It's not the same.
Q. In paragraph 28, you say, "All workspaces
were compiled and loaded to the device"; is
that correct?
A. Yes.
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will do it. But this is why you get help.
(Exhibit 491 marked.)
Q. Exhibit 491 is a printout from the Android
Web site.
Have you ever seen this before?
A. I think it's a reference that I was giving.
I'm in our -- it looks like it. I'm not
sure. You have to be more precise. Let me
see. (Witness reviewing document).
It looks similar. I cannot say for
sure. If you tell me it's the same
reference that I have given, then it's okay.
But I'm not sure.
Q. It is.
A. So, okay. So it's the
source.android.com/source/initilizing.html.
It's this.
Q. Did you use a Linux machine or a Mac machine
to test the phones?
A. Linux.
Q. Which version of Linux?
A. Ubuntu.
Q. Which version of Ubuntu?
A. Not sure.
Q. Did you install the JDK onto Linux?
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Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Did you do that yourself?
No.
Who did that?
Seeon. I supervised him.
What do you mean you supervised him?
In most cases I was standing next to him.
Why did he do it?
He's more familiar with the Android SDK
techniques. If I would do it, it would take
me four times the time than it is taking
him. Sometimes he is just more familiar
with the issues. And besides, his time is
less valuable.
Q. We'll be sure to ask him if he has the same
opinion.
A. He got less salary. And, normally, I was
supervising for the first time he was doing
it, and the second and third and fourth time
he was doing it, he was doing it alone, and
I was just making sure it was okay. There
was many, many executions so I was just
supervising the first time making sure it's
correct. Then he can repeat the process
again and again. He can repeat the process
again and again. If it was just one time, I
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A. I installed the JDK onto Linux, but not for
this testing that was done. It was done by
Seeon. And it was easy installation. I was
doing installation separately.
Q. What installation did he -- of JDK did he
put on?
A. It's written over here in the instructions.
We took the entire repo. It's page six, the
beginning. For the instructions, page six.
Q. I understand that. But I want to understand
the build environment that you created to
build Android. So you indicated that you
put on the Ubuntu version of Linux.
Did you put on the Oracle JDK or open
JDK onto Linux?
A. Yes, as instructed.
Q. Do you know which version of JDK?
A. Six. What was available then. It's not so
important.
Q. JDK6?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you do this before you downloaded the
Android code?
A. I don't remember. It's not important. If
you do it after or before, it's the same
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result.
Q. Did you install all the packages that this
Web site says to install on Linux?
A. I think -- I'm not sure.
Q. You see on the bottom towards the bottom of
the page, it has an S-U-D-O, sudo
add-apt-get, then a list of a whole bunch of
packages.
Are you saying you are not sure if
these were installed?
A. Well, I'm sure what was written here was
installed. I am not sure those composed of
everything. I'm sure this was written and
this is what was done, but you are asking me
a different question.
Q. Your report doesn't say -- only says that
you downloaded the Android source code.
I'm -MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
Q. Is that correct?
A. It's ambiguous.
Q. What's ambiguous?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Saying just the Android itself -- what is
written over here is correct [indicating],
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(Exhibit 492 marked.)
Q. Exhibit 492 is another Web page from the
Android Web site that discusses downloading
the Android source code; is that correct?
A. This is the title.
Q. Do you recall seeing this page before?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Not off the top of my head. Maybe, yes.
Maybe, no. I'm not sure.
Q. On the top of page two, it has in green a
repo command to download Froyo source code,
and that is the same as the command that you
listed in paragraph 25 of your report; is
that correct?
A. It is the same.
Q. Do you know what gets downloaded to your
computer when you run this command?
A. Most of that SDK. This is SDK. There is
multiple layers of downloading it. This is
the initial one. There are additions to it
to make it functional.
I want to correct myself. I did not
see this key before. There is a key on the
end of page two that you have to copy. I
did not see it before. So I am sure I did
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and it's full of detailed instructions and
long ones and...
Q. Paragraph 28, you say, "All workspaces were
compiled and loaded to the device following
the directions described at Google's Web
site."
A. Yes.
Q. You testified that Seeon was the one who
actually did that; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And I'm asking if whoever did it followed
the specific directions on Android's
Web site or not.
A. Correct.
Q. So I am asking you if all these packages
that it says should be installed were
installed on Linux?
A. All the packages that was cited should be
installed were installed.
Q. Are you sure?
A. I'm sure that everything in it to build the
system was installed. So this is what I am
sure of. It was working. Since I did not
do it by hand, I cannot be sure. But it
makes sense.
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not see this page before.
Q. This appears to be the Web page that
explains how to download the Android source
code and verify that it was downloaded
correctly; is that correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Maybe. I did not see it before. We've been
using this [indicating]. This was
sufficient for us.
Q. You are referring to Exhibit 491?
A. I am referring to 491, yes.
Q. Does 491 provide the repo address that you
reference in paragraph 25 of your report?
A. (Witness reviewing document).
I don't see it. Let me see. (Witness
reviewing document.)
No. This is why it was explicitly
stated in my report.
Q. Where did you get that cite instruction
from?
A. This one [indicating]?
Q. Yes.
A. Seeon did it before me. I don't know where
he get it from.
Q. How do you know that this is the correct
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Q. But if copy-on-write is disabled, it would
just be a waste of memory to load these into
preloader?
A. Yes.
Q. And it might be more sensible to simply
launch the specific classes that are needed
when an application that needs them is
loaded into memory; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. So, for example, if you had a text messaging
application and it needed 15 of these
classes to run, it would make sense to just
launch the text messaging application, load
just those 15 classes into memory; is that
correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Not exact.
Q. What do you mean?
A. You don't need to load anything if you don't
have anything for it. You just load it on
demand when you need it. It loads
automatically. You don't have to give a
list of anything. If you don't have any
kind of -- something is preloading into your
system, there's no need for you to preload
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work that way?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. What for?
Q. Well, you wrote an application that loaded
all of these classes, but with copy-on-write
disabled; is that correct?
A. To show the difference.
Q. But would it make sense for Android to
actually implement it this way?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Doesn't matter. It was not the purpose
to show -- to demonstrate the way -- to
demonstrate the value that can be given from
copy-on-write if you are using more of the
library loaded. When you find out if you
have point one seconds per application
currently, because I don't use much -Q. Right.
A. -- and I want to show what happens if an
application will use much more. I take the
position that if use everything, which is
the maximum, when you use everything listed
now, in the future it might be a larger list
that can utilize much more time saving.
It's valid. And I just want to demonstrate
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it.
Q. But it doesn't make sense to preload it
ahead of time unless you are using
copy-on-write; is that correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. The preloading is effective with the
copy-on-write.
Q. So without copy-on-write, it would make more
sense to preload on demand?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Without copy-on-write, correct.
Q. And within my example of the text messaging
application, if it used some classes only in
certain instances, you may not even need to
load those classes until they were actually
needed by the text messaging application?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Correct.
Q. So if Android were to implement the code to
not use copy-on-write, it might make sense
to simply load class files on demand; is
that correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you try an implementation that would
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the potential. I want to say this is
typical, or this is the potential for saving
application. The application becomes more
complex and will save more. The application
become more complex, it would save more.
Those applications are very -- and the
saving is not significant, .1 second per
application. It's nice. It's not
significant. It can reach a few seconds per
application, and then it's very significant.
Q. So in short, your performance test is just
to show the difference with and without
copy-on-write?
A. Yes. To show the potential of saving.
Q. But if Android was implemented without
copy-on-write, they certainly wouldn't do it
this way because it would be more efficient
to simply load the classes on demand; is
that correct?
MR. PETERS: Objection. Form.
A. I will refer you -- I will repeat what I was
saying before. I wanted to show what will
happen when application when used more -not much more of this. Now, technically,
they can use everything. That's the maximum
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Attorneys' Eyes Only
1
CERTIFICATE
2
3 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
4 MIDDLESEX, SS.
5
I, Jill Shepherd, Notary Public, in
6 and for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,
7 do hereby certify that:
EREZ LANDAU, the witness whose
8 deposition taken on September 14th, 2011 is
9 hereinbefore set forth, was satisfactorily
identified by means of driver's license, and
10 was duly sworn by me, and that the foregoing
11 transcript is a true and accurate record of
the testimony given by such witness and such
12 testimony is a true and accurate
13 transcription of my stenotype notes to the
best of my knowledge, skill, and ability.
14
I further certify that I am not
15 related to any of the parties in this matter
by blood or marriage and that I am in no way
16 interested in the outcome of this matter.
17
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
18 set my hand and notarial seal this 14th day
19 of September, 2011.
20
21
22
__________________
23
Jill Shepherd, RPR
24
Notary Public
25 My Commission expires: April 18, 2014
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INDEX
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 2011
WITNESS
PAGE
EREZ LANDAU
Examination by Mr. Francis
5
Examination by Mr. Peters
106
DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
NUMBER
DESCRIPTION
Exhibit 488 Notice
20
Exhibit 489 US Patent No. 7,426,720
21
Exhibit 490 Summary and Report of Erez
28
Landau
Exhibit 491 Open Source Project
60
Exhibit 492 Open Source Project
64
Exhibit 493 Open Source Code
67
Exhibit 494 Open Source Project
71
Exhibit 495 Android Copy-on-write
76
Statistics
Exhibit 496 MtaskClassLoading.java
83
Exhibit 497 MtaskClassLoadingActivity.java 83
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I declare under penalty of perjury
2 under the laws that the foregoing is
3 true and correct.
4
5
Executed on _________________ , 20___,
6 at _____________, ___________________________.
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_____________________________
11
EREZ LANDAU
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PAGE
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DEPOSITION EXHIBITS (CONTINUING)
NUMBER
DESCRIPTION
PAGE
Exhibit 498 Source Code
93
Exhibit 499 Source Code
93
Exhibit 500 Supplemental Summary and
Report of Erez Landau
Page 111
102
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