Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 1057

Declaration of Cyndi Wheeler in Support of #999 Administrative Motion to File Under Seal , #1007 Administrative Motion to File Under Seal Samsung's Opposition to Apple's Motion for Summary Judgment and Documents in Support Thereto , Samsung's Oppotiion to Apple's Motion to Strike, and Samsung's Opposition to Motion to Exclude filed byApple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Proposed Order, #2 Exhibit A, #3 Exhibit B, #4 Exhibit C, #5 Exhibit D, #6 Exhibit E, #7 Exhibit F, #8 Exhibit G, #9 Exhibit H, #10 Exhibit I, #11 Exhibit J, #12 Exhibit K)(Related document(s) #999 , #1007 ) (Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 6/7/2012)

Exhibit E

EXHIBIT 13
FILED UNDER SEAL

Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only

Page 1
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION

2
3
4
5

APPLE INC., a California
corporation,

6

Plaintiff,
7

8

9

10

11

vs.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., a Korean business
entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS
AMERICA, INC., a New York
corporation; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA,
LLC, a Delaware limited
liability company,

12

13

Defendants.
----------------------------

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) NO. 11-CV-01846-LHK
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***
CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
***

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18
19
20

VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF MATTHEW ROHRBACH
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
MONDAY, OCTOBER 24, 2011

21
22
23
24

25

Reported By:
Yvonne Fennelly, CCRR, CSR No. 5495
JOB NO. 43006
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MATTHEW ROHRBACH,

2

having been first duly sworn was

3

examined and testified as follows:

4

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

5
6

You may proceed.

EXAMINATION
BY MR. ZELLER:

7

Q.

Good morning.

8

A.

Good morning.

9

Q.

Please state and spell your full name

10

for the record.

11
12

A.

R-O-H-R-B-A-C-H.

13
14

Matthew Rohrbach, M-A-T-T-H-E-W,

Q.

And have you ever gone by any other

name?

15

A.

No.

16

Q.

You're currently an Apple employee?

17

A.

Yes.

18

Q.

You're an industrial designer?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

How long have you been working as an

21

industrial designer for Apple?

22

A.

For Apple, 13 years.

23

Q.

So that's approximately the 1988 time

24

period?

25

A.

'98, yeah.
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A.

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11

Q.

Let me show you what's previously

12

marked as Exhibit 8, which is United States

13

Design Patent 504,889.

14

I take it, at some point, you became

15

aware that there was a dispute between Samsung

16

and Apple?

17
18

MS. TAYLOR:
question.

19
20
21

It's a yes-or-no

THE WITNESS:

Yes.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

At any time prior to the time you

22

became aware that there was a dispute between

23

Apple and Samsung, in other words, litigation in

24

court that was going on, had you seen the '889

25

design patent?
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A.

I don't recall.

2

Q.

You are listed as a named inventor

3

here.

4

You see that?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

What about the design that's shown

7

here in Exhibit 889 was new or original or

8

different from the prior art?

9

MS. TAYLOR:

Objection; lacks

10

foundation, calls for speculation, also appears

11

to be seeking a legal conclusion, and it's vague

12

and ambiguous.

13
14
15

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Was this design that is shown here in

16

Exhibit 8 different from tablet designs that

17

were already in existence?

18
19

MS. TAYLOR:

for speculation, it's vague and ambiguous.

20
21
22
23

Lacks foundation, calls

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Well, you're named as an inventor;

right?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Well, what did you and the other
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inventors named here invent that's shown here in

2

Exhibit 8, the '889 patent?

3
4

MS. TAYLOR:

Objection; it calls for

a legal conclusion and lacks foundation.

5

THE WITNESS:

6

design.

7

We did the industrial

BY MR. ZELLER:

8

Q.

9

Well, what was inventive about it?

10

MS. TAYLOR:

Objection; that calls

for a legal conclusion, and lacks foundation.

11

THE WITNESS:

12

know exactly.

13

The shape.

I don't

BY MR. ZELLER:

14

Q.

Design elements.

Do you know generally?

15

MS. TAYLOR:

16

THE WITNESS:

17

I don't recall.

I

don't know.

18

Asked and answered.

BY MR. ZELLER:

19

Q.

What about the shape of the design

20

that's shown here in the '889 design patent, in

21

your view, was inventive?

22

MS. TAYLOR:

Objection; it calls for

23

a legal conclusion, it's vague and ambiguous,

24

and it lacks foundation, calls for speculation.

25

THE WITNESS:

I don't know what the

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document is trying to get across.

2

BY MR. ZELLER:

3

Q.

And when you say "the document,"

4

you're talking about the drawings and the other

5

information here in the '889 design patent?

6

A.

Correct.

7

Q.

Is that saying because you don't have

8
9

an understanding of what's being shown here?
A.

I was familiar with the design at the

10

time, but I don't know what the document is

11

trying to communicate.

12

Q.

Well, as you sit here now, based on

13

everything that you know, do you have any

14

knowledge or understanding as to what, if

15

anything, was inventive about the design shown

16

here in the '889 design patent?

17

MS. TAYLOR:

Calls for a legal

18

conclusion, and lacks foundation, and it calls

19

for speculation.

20

THE WITNESS:

No, I don't know what

21

the document is trying to communicate.

22

BY MR. ZELLER:

23

Q.

Based on all the information that you

24

have available to you, was there anything about

25

the shape that you consider to be new or
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inventive as of the time that this invention was

2

created?

3
4

MS. TAYLOR:

a legal conclusion, and lacks foundation.

5
6
7

Objection; it calls for

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Directing your attention to Figure 1

8

of the '889 design patent, you'll see that this

9

is an angled front view of the design.

10

Do you see that?

11

A.

I think so.

12

Q.

And you'll see that there is an

13

Figure 1.

interior rectangular shape on the front surface.

14

Do you see that?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Are those dotted lines or dash lines?

17
18

MS. TAYLOR:

itself, and it lacks foundation.

19
20
21

The document speaks for

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Does that set of rectangular lines

22

that runs on the interior of the front depict

23

anything?

24

MS. TAYLOR:

25

and calls for a legal conclusion.

Calls for speculation,

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2

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:

3

Q.

Does that interior rectangular line

4

indicate the difference between the active area

5

of the display screen and the nonactive area?

6
7

MS. TAYLOR:

and it calls for a legal conclusion.

8
9

Calls for speculation,

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:

10

Q.

Do you have any knowledge or

11

information as to what that interior rectangular

12

line depicts?

13

MS. TAYLOR:

14

THE WITNESS:

15

Same objections.
I would be guessing.

BY MR. ZELLER:

16

Q.

And why is it you can't ascertain

17

that?

18

drawings here to tell you?

19
20
21

Is there not enough information in the

A.

I don't understand the language of

the patent drawing.
Q.

Well, I'm not asking you to

22

understand -- I'm not asking about the language

23

of patent drawings.

24

inventor, your understanding of this design

25

patent.

I'm asking you as an

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2
3

Do you understand that?
A.

Do I understand that you're asking me

as an inventor listed on this document?

4

Q.

Right.

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

Directing your attention to Figure 1,

7

you'll see that in certain parts of the

8

perimeter, of the front, there is a darker line

9

that runs on that perimeter.

10

Do you see that?

11

A.

I think so.

12

Q.

And so that there's no doubt about

13

this, you can see it most clearly as it runs on

14

this bottom portion of the drawing.

15

Do you see that part right there?

16

A.

Okay.

17

Q.

And this is Figure 1 we're talking

18

about.

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

Do you know what that darker line

21

depicts?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

Do you have any knowledge or

24
25

information as to what that darker line depicts?
MS. TAYLOR:

Calls for speculation,

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lacks foundation.

2
3

THE WITNESS:

No.

BY MR. ZELLER:

4

Q.

Does that darker area depict the

5

ventilation area that we talked about earlier

6

for the tablet?

7

MS. TAYLOR:

Same objections.

8

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

9

BY MR. ZELLER:

10
11

Q.

one way or another?

12
13

It might, might not, you don't know

MS. TAYLOR:

Mischaracterizes his

testimony.

14

THE WITNESS:

15

line depicts.

16

I don't know what that

BY MR. ZELLER:

17

Q.

Right.

18

So it might depict the ventilation

19

area, it might not, you don't know, you don't

20

have an understanding; right?

21
22

MS. TAYLOR:

Mischaracterizes his

testimony, asked and answered.

23

THE WITNESS:

24

that line depicts.

25

Yeah, I don't know what

///
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BY MR. ZELLER:

2

Q.

Well, is it the ventilation area?

3

MS. TAYLOR:

4

calls for speculation.

5
6

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:

7
8

Asked and answered,

Q.

Are you denying that that's the

ventilation area?

9

MS. TAYLOR:

Mischaracterizes his

10

testimony, and unduly argumentative.

11

for a legal conclusion.

12

THE WITNESS:

13

I don't know what that

line depicts.

14

Also calls

BY MR. ZELLER:

15
16

Q.

You don't know one way or another;

right?

17

MS. TAYLOR:

18

now you're harassing the witness.

19

THE WITNESS:

20

I don't know what it

depicts.

21

Asked and answered, and

BY MR. ZELLER:

22

Q.

Can you tell me one way or another

23

whether it depicts the ventilation area?

24

no?

25

MS. TAYLOR:

Yes or

Asked and answered,

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calls for speculation, and you're being

2

harassing.

3
4

THE WITNESS:

I don't know what that

line depicts.

5

MR. ZELLER:

6

Can you read back my question?

7

I ask that you focus on the

All right.

8

particular question I have asked you and answer

9

that question, please.

10

(Record read.)

11

MS. TAYLOR:

12

objections, too, please?

13
14

Can you read the

(Record read.)
BY MR. ZELLER:

15

Q.

So please answer my question.

16

MS. TAYLOR:

17

THE WITNESS:

18

Which question?
Can you read the

question one more time, please?

19

(Record read.)

20

MS. TAYLOR:

Asked and answered,

21

calls for speculation, calls for a legal

22

conclusion.

23

THE WITNESS:

24

or the other.

25

No, I can't say one way

///
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2

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Directing your attention to Figure 2.

3

You'll see on the interior of the drawing there,

4

there are those three sets of diagonal lines.

5

Do you see that?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

What do those represent or depict?

8
9

MS. TAYLOR:

conclusion, and speculation, lacks foundation.

10
11
12

THE WITNESS:

Q.

Do you have any understanding?
MS. TAYLOR:

14

THE WITNESS:

16

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:

13

15

Calls for a legal

Same objections.
No.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

17

All right.
Directing your attention to Figure 4

18

of the '889 design patent, you'll see that the

19

diagonal lines don't appear on the interior of

20

Figure 4.

21

Do you see that?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

All right.

24
25

And do you have any explanation or
understanding as to why those diagonal lines
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appear on Figure 2 but not on Figure 4?

2
3

MS. TAYLOR:

conclusion, and speculation, lacks foundation.

4
5
6

Calls for a legal

THE WITNESS:

No.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Is the back surface of the tablet

7

design that's being depicted here on the '889

8

design patent showing a substantially flat back?

9

MS. TAYLOR:

Calls for speculation,

10

calls for a legal conclusion, and lacks

11

foundation.

12
13
14

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Does the design that's being depicted

15

here in the '889 design patent show a flat,

16

clear front surface?

17
18

MS. TAYLOR:

conclusion, speculation, and lacks foundation.

19
20
21

Calls for a legal

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Directing your attention to Figure 9

22

of the '889 design patent, you'll see that the

23

portion of the device that is the top of the

24

device as being held by the person in the

25

outline here and is to the furthest right of the
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drawing, when you look at it, you'll see there

2

is kind of a wedge shape there on the side.

3

MS. TAYLOR:

A web shape, what?

4

MR. ZELLER:

A wedge shape,

MS. TAYLOR:

I couldn't hear the

5

W-E-D-G-E.

6
7

word.

Thank you.

8
9
10

THE WITNESS:

Okay.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Do you know if that's the design for

11

the tablet that is being depicted here on the

12

'889 design patent has a side that is wedged

13

shaped?

14
15

MS. TAYLOR:

for a legal conclusion, and speculation.

16
17

Lacks foundation, calls

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:

18

Q.

19

that regard?

20

A.

No.

21

Q.

Directing your attention to Figure 6.

You don't have any understanding in

22

You'll see that there is what's generally

23

depicted as a hole there on the right side.

24
25

A.

Okay.
I see I think what you're indicating.
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Q.

2
3

MS. TAYLOR:

6

THE WITNESS:

Q.

depicted here in the '889 design patent?
MS. TAYLOR:

13
14

THE WITNESS:

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

Do you know why that, that hole

doesn't show up in Figure 9?

15

MS. TAYLOR:

16

THE WITNESS:

17

Legal conclusion, calls

for speculation, and lacks foundation.

11
12

All right.
Is that part of the design that is

9
10

I don't know.

BY MR. ZELLER:

7
8

Calls for a legal

conclusion, and speculation, lacks foundation.

4
5

What is that?

Calls for speculation.
No.

BY MR. ZELLER:

18

Q.

19

explanation?

20
21

MS. TAYLOR:

24
25

Calls for speculation,

asked and answered.

22
23

Do you have any understanding or

THE WITNESS:

No.

BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.

You'll see, generally speaking, that

these figures depict what we roughly call a
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connector port, sometimes people call it a

2

30-pin connector if you specifically look at

3

Figure 8?

4
5

MS. TAYLOR:

Which figure?

BY MR. ZELLER:

6

Q.

Do you see that?

7

A.

The rectangles in Figure 8?

8

Q.

Right.

9

Do you see that?

10

A.

I see those rectangles, yeah.

11

Q.

Do you know what they are?

12
13

MS. TAYLOR:
conclusion.

14
15
16
17

THE WITNESS:

Q.

Do you have any knowledge or

understanding as to what they are?
MS. TAYLOR:

Same, and lacks

foundation.

20
21

No.

BY MR. ZELLER:

18
19

Calls for a legal

THE WITNESS:

No.

BY MR. ZELLER:

22

Q.

23

Exhibit 841.

24
25

If we could go back for a moment to

You'll agree with me that the mockup
that's depicted here shows a port on one side,
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it's in the shape, generally, of a hole as well

2

as something people call a connector or 30-pin

3

connector; right?

4

MS. TAYLOR:

5

a particular page?

6

Are you directing him to

BY MR. ZELLER:

7

Q.

Well, it is shown in various

8

perspectives, but you could look at 18780 and

9

18781.

10

Do you see what I'm referring to?

11

A.

I see those pages.

12

Q.

Well, let's break it down, then.

13
14

Do you see here on 18780 there is
that darker smaller rectangular region?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Is it your understanding, generally

17

speaking, that that is a connector, something

18

sometimes people call a 30-pin connector?

19
20

MS. TAYLOR:

Objection; it's vague

and ambiguous, lacks foundation.

21

THE WITNESS:

As best as I can tell

22

in this photograph, that's what I would guess

23

that it is.

24

BY MR. ZELLER:

25

Q.

It's your best understanding based on
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