Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al
Filing
1057
Declaration of Cyndi Wheeler in Support of #999 Administrative Motion to File Under Seal , #1007 Administrative Motion to File Under Seal Samsung's Opposition to Apple's Motion for Summary Judgment and Documents in Support Thereto , Samsung's Oppotiion to Apple's Motion to Strike, and Samsung's Opposition to Motion to Exclude filed byApple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Proposed Order, #2 Exhibit A, #3 Exhibit B, #4 Exhibit C, #5 Exhibit D, #6 Exhibit E, #7 Exhibit F, #8 Exhibit G, #9 Exhibit H, #10 Exhibit I, #11 Exhibit J, #12 Exhibit K)(Related document(s) #999 , #1007 ) (Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 6/7/2012)
Exhibit E
EXHIBIT 13
FILED UNDER SEAL
Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION
2
3
4
5
APPLE INC., a California
corporation,
6
Plaintiff,
7
8
9
10
11
vs.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., a Korean business
entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS
AMERICA, INC., a New York
corporation; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA,
LLC, a Delaware limited
liability company,
12
13
Defendants.
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) NO. 11-CV-01846-LHK
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***
CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
***
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20
VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF MATTHEW ROHRBACH
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
MONDAY, OCTOBER 24, 2011
21
22
23
24
25
Reported By:
Yvonne Fennelly, CCRR, CSR No. 5495
JOB NO. 43006
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MATTHEW ROHRBACH,
2
having been first duly sworn was
3
examined and testified as follows:
4
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
5
6
You may proceed.
EXAMINATION
BY MR. ZELLER:
7
Q.
Good morning.
8
A.
Good morning.
9
Q.
Please state and spell your full name
10
for the record.
11
12
A.
R-O-H-R-B-A-C-H.
13
14
Matthew Rohrbach, M-A-T-T-H-E-W,
Q.
And have you ever gone by any other
name?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
You're currently an Apple employee?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
You're an industrial designer?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
How long have you been working as an
21
industrial designer for Apple?
22
A.
For Apple, 13 years.
23
Q.
So that's approximately the 1988 time
24
period?
25
A.
'98, yeah.
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A.
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11
Q.
Let me show you what's previously
12
marked as Exhibit 8, which is United States
13
Design Patent 504,889.
14
I take it, at some point, you became
15
aware that there was a dispute between Samsung
16
and Apple?
17
18
MS. TAYLOR:
question.
19
20
21
It's a yes-or-no
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
At any time prior to the time you
22
became aware that there was a dispute between
23
Apple and Samsung, in other words, litigation in
24
court that was going on, had you seen the '889
25
design patent?
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A.
I don't recall.
2
Q.
You are listed as a named inventor
3
here.
4
You see that?
5
A.
Yes.
6
Q.
What about the design that's shown
7
here in Exhibit 889 was new or original or
8
different from the prior art?
9
MS. TAYLOR:
Objection; lacks
10
foundation, calls for speculation, also appears
11
to be seeking a legal conclusion, and it's vague
12
and ambiguous.
13
14
15
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Was this design that is shown here in
16
Exhibit 8 different from tablet designs that
17
were already in existence?
18
19
MS. TAYLOR:
for speculation, it's vague and ambiguous.
20
21
22
23
Lacks foundation, calls
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Well, you're named as an inventor;
right?
24
A.
Yes.
25
Q.
Well, what did you and the other
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inventors named here invent that's shown here in
2
Exhibit 8, the '889 patent?
3
4
MS. TAYLOR:
Objection; it calls for
a legal conclusion and lacks foundation.
5
THE WITNESS:
6
design.
7
We did the industrial
BY MR. ZELLER:
8
Q.
9
Well, what was inventive about it?
10
MS. TAYLOR:
Objection; that calls
for a legal conclusion, and lacks foundation.
11
THE WITNESS:
12
know exactly.
13
The shape.
I don't
BY MR. ZELLER:
14
Q.
Design elements.
Do you know generally?
15
MS. TAYLOR:
16
THE WITNESS:
17
I don't recall.
I
don't know.
18
Asked and answered.
BY MR. ZELLER:
19
Q.
What about the shape of the design
20
that's shown here in the '889 design patent, in
21
your view, was inventive?
22
MS. TAYLOR:
Objection; it calls for
23
a legal conclusion, it's vague and ambiguous,
24
and it lacks foundation, calls for speculation.
25
THE WITNESS:
I don't know what the
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document is trying to get across.
2
BY MR. ZELLER:
3
Q.
And when you say "the document,"
4
you're talking about the drawings and the other
5
information here in the '889 design patent?
6
A.
Correct.
7
Q.
Is that saying because you don't have
8
9
an understanding of what's being shown here?
A.
I was familiar with the design at the
10
time, but I don't know what the document is
11
trying to communicate.
12
Q.
Well, as you sit here now, based on
13
everything that you know, do you have any
14
knowledge or understanding as to what, if
15
anything, was inventive about the design shown
16
here in the '889 design patent?
17
MS. TAYLOR:
Calls for a legal
18
conclusion, and lacks foundation, and it calls
19
for speculation.
20
THE WITNESS:
No, I don't know what
21
the document is trying to communicate.
22
BY MR. ZELLER:
23
Q.
Based on all the information that you
24
have available to you, was there anything about
25
the shape that you consider to be new or
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inventive as of the time that this invention was
2
created?
3
4
MS. TAYLOR:
a legal conclusion, and lacks foundation.
5
6
7
Objection; it calls for
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Directing your attention to Figure 1
8
of the '889 design patent, you'll see that this
9
is an angled front view of the design.
10
Do you see that?
11
A.
I think so.
12
Q.
And you'll see that there is an
13
Figure 1.
interior rectangular shape on the front surface.
14
Do you see that?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Are those dotted lines or dash lines?
17
18
MS. TAYLOR:
itself, and it lacks foundation.
19
20
21
The document speaks for
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Does that set of rectangular lines
22
that runs on the interior of the front depict
23
anything?
24
MS. TAYLOR:
25
and calls for a legal conclusion.
Calls for speculation,
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2
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
3
Q.
Does that interior rectangular line
4
indicate the difference between the active area
5
of the display screen and the nonactive area?
6
7
MS. TAYLOR:
and it calls for a legal conclusion.
8
9
Calls for speculation,
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
10
Q.
Do you have any knowledge or
11
information as to what that interior rectangular
12
line depicts?
13
MS. TAYLOR:
14
THE WITNESS:
15
Same objections.
I would be guessing.
BY MR. ZELLER:
16
Q.
And why is it you can't ascertain
17
that?
18
drawings here to tell you?
19
20
21
Is there not enough information in the
A.
I don't understand the language of
the patent drawing.
Q.
Well, I'm not asking you to
22
understand -- I'm not asking about the language
23
of patent drawings.
24
inventor, your understanding of this design
25
patent.
I'm asking you as an
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2
3
Do you understand that?
A.
Do I understand that you're asking me
as an inventor listed on this document?
4
Q.
Right.
5
A.
Yes.
6
Q.
Directing your attention to Figure 1,
7
you'll see that in certain parts of the
8
perimeter, of the front, there is a darker line
9
that runs on that perimeter.
10
Do you see that?
11
A.
I think so.
12
Q.
And so that there's no doubt about
13
this, you can see it most clearly as it runs on
14
this bottom portion of the drawing.
15
Do you see that part right there?
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
And this is Figure 1 we're talking
18
about.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Do you know what that darker line
21
depicts?
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
Do you have any knowledge or
24
25
information as to what that darker line depicts?
MS. TAYLOR:
Calls for speculation,
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lacks foundation.
2
3
THE WITNESS:
No.
BY MR. ZELLER:
4
Q.
Does that darker area depict the
5
ventilation area that we talked about earlier
6
for the tablet?
7
MS. TAYLOR:
Same objections.
8
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
9
BY MR. ZELLER:
10
11
Q.
one way or another?
12
13
It might, might not, you don't know
MS. TAYLOR:
Mischaracterizes his
testimony.
14
THE WITNESS:
15
line depicts.
16
I don't know what that
BY MR. ZELLER:
17
Q.
Right.
18
So it might depict the ventilation
19
area, it might not, you don't know, you don't
20
have an understanding; right?
21
22
MS. TAYLOR:
Mischaracterizes his
testimony, asked and answered.
23
THE WITNESS:
24
that line depicts.
25
Yeah, I don't know what
///
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BY MR. ZELLER:
2
Q.
Well, is it the ventilation area?
3
MS. TAYLOR:
4
calls for speculation.
5
6
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
7
8
Asked and answered,
Q.
Are you denying that that's the
ventilation area?
9
MS. TAYLOR:
Mischaracterizes his
10
testimony, and unduly argumentative.
11
for a legal conclusion.
12
THE WITNESS:
13
I don't know what that
line depicts.
14
Also calls
BY MR. ZELLER:
15
16
Q.
You don't know one way or another;
right?
17
MS. TAYLOR:
18
now you're harassing the witness.
19
THE WITNESS:
20
I don't know what it
depicts.
21
Asked and answered, and
BY MR. ZELLER:
22
Q.
Can you tell me one way or another
23
whether it depicts the ventilation area?
24
no?
25
MS. TAYLOR:
Yes or
Asked and answered,
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calls for speculation, and you're being
2
harassing.
3
4
THE WITNESS:
I don't know what that
line depicts.
5
MR. ZELLER:
6
Can you read back my question?
7
I ask that you focus on the
All right.
8
particular question I have asked you and answer
9
that question, please.
10
(Record read.)
11
MS. TAYLOR:
12
objections, too, please?
13
14
Can you read the
(Record read.)
BY MR. ZELLER:
15
Q.
So please answer my question.
16
MS. TAYLOR:
17
THE WITNESS:
18
Which question?
Can you read the
question one more time, please?
19
(Record read.)
20
MS. TAYLOR:
Asked and answered,
21
calls for speculation, calls for a legal
22
conclusion.
23
THE WITNESS:
24
or the other.
25
No, I can't say one way
///
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2
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Directing your attention to Figure 2.
3
You'll see on the interior of the drawing there,
4
there are those three sets of diagonal lines.
5
Do you see that?
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
What do those represent or depict?
8
9
MS. TAYLOR:
conclusion, and speculation, lacks foundation.
10
11
12
THE WITNESS:
Q.
Do you have any understanding?
MS. TAYLOR:
14
THE WITNESS:
16
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
13
15
Calls for a legal
Same objections.
No.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
17
All right.
Directing your attention to Figure 4
18
of the '889 design patent, you'll see that the
19
diagonal lines don't appear on the interior of
20
Figure 4.
21
Do you see that?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
All right.
24
25
And do you have any explanation or
understanding as to why those diagonal lines
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appear on Figure 2 but not on Figure 4?
2
3
MS. TAYLOR:
conclusion, and speculation, lacks foundation.
4
5
6
Calls for a legal
THE WITNESS:
No.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Is the back surface of the tablet
7
design that's being depicted here on the '889
8
design patent showing a substantially flat back?
9
MS. TAYLOR:
Calls for speculation,
10
calls for a legal conclusion, and lacks
11
foundation.
12
13
14
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Does the design that's being depicted
15
here in the '889 design patent show a flat,
16
clear front surface?
17
18
MS. TAYLOR:
conclusion, speculation, and lacks foundation.
19
20
21
Calls for a legal
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Directing your attention to Figure 9
22
of the '889 design patent, you'll see that the
23
portion of the device that is the top of the
24
device as being held by the person in the
25
outline here and is to the furthest right of the
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drawing, when you look at it, you'll see there
2
is kind of a wedge shape there on the side.
3
MS. TAYLOR:
A web shape, what?
4
MR. ZELLER:
A wedge shape,
MS. TAYLOR:
I couldn't hear the
5
W-E-D-G-E.
6
7
word.
Thank you.
8
9
10
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Do you know if that's the design for
11
the tablet that is being depicted here on the
12
'889 design patent has a side that is wedged
13
shaped?
14
15
MS. TAYLOR:
for a legal conclusion, and speculation.
16
17
Lacks foundation, calls
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
18
Q.
19
that regard?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Directing your attention to Figure 6.
You don't have any understanding in
22
You'll see that there is what's generally
23
depicted as a hole there on the right side.
24
25
A.
Okay.
I see I think what you're indicating.
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Q.
2
3
MS. TAYLOR:
6
THE WITNESS:
Q.
depicted here in the '889 design patent?
MS. TAYLOR:
13
14
THE WITNESS:
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Do you know why that, that hole
doesn't show up in Figure 9?
15
MS. TAYLOR:
16
THE WITNESS:
17
Legal conclusion, calls
for speculation, and lacks foundation.
11
12
All right.
Is that part of the design that is
9
10
I don't know.
BY MR. ZELLER:
7
8
Calls for a legal
conclusion, and speculation, lacks foundation.
4
5
What is that?
Calls for speculation.
No.
BY MR. ZELLER:
18
Q.
19
explanation?
20
21
MS. TAYLOR:
24
25
Calls for speculation,
asked and answered.
22
23
Do you have any understanding or
THE WITNESS:
No.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
You'll see, generally speaking, that
these figures depict what we roughly call a
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connector port, sometimes people call it a
2
30-pin connector if you specifically look at
3
Figure 8?
4
5
MS. TAYLOR:
Which figure?
BY MR. ZELLER:
6
Q.
Do you see that?
7
A.
The rectangles in Figure 8?
8
Q.
Right.
9
Do you see that?
10
A.
I see those rectangles, yeah.
11
Q.
Do you know what they are?
12
13
MS. TAYLOR:
conclusion.
14
15
16
17
THE WITNESS:
Q.
Do you have any knowledge or
understanding as to what they are?
MS. TAYLOR:
Same, and lacks
foundation.
20
21
No.
BY MR. ZELLER:
18
19
Calls for a legal
THE WITNESS:
No.
BY MR. ZELLER:
22
Q.
23
Exhibit 841.
24
25
If we could go back for a moment to
You'll agree with me that the mockup
that's depicted here shows a port on one side,
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it's in the shape, generally, of a hole as well
2
as something people call a connector or 30-pin
3
connector; right?
4
MS. TAYLOR:
5
a particular page?
6
Are you directing him to
BY MR. ZELLER:
7
Q.
Well, it is shown in various
8
perspectives, but you could look at 18780 and
9
18781.
10
Do you see what I'm referring to?
11
A.
I see those pages.
12
Q.
Well, let's break it down, then.
13
14
Do you see here on 18780 there is
that darker smaller rectangular region?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Is it your understanding, generally
17
speaking, that that is a connector, something
18
sometimes people call a 30-pin connector?
19
20
MS. TAYLOR:
Objection; it's vague
and ambiguous, lacks foundation.
21
THE WITNESS:
As best as I can tell
22
in this photograph, that's what I would guess
23
that it is.
24
BY MR. ZELLER:
25
Q.
It's your best understanding based on
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