Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 430

Declaration of Francis Ho in Support of #424 Apple's Reply in Support of its Motion for a Preliminary Injunction, filed by Apple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit A, #2 Exhibit B, #3 Exhibit C, #4 Exhibit D, #5 Exhibit E, #6 Exhibit F-1, #7 Exhibit F-2, #8 Exhibit G, #9 Exhibit H, #10 Exhibit I, #11 Exhibit J-1, #12 Exhibit J-2, #13 Exhibit K, #14 Exhibit L-1, #15 Exhibit L-2, #16 Exhibit M, #17 Exhibit N, #18 Exhibit O, #19 Exhibit P, #20 Exhibit Q, #21 Exhibit R, #22 Exhibit S, #23 Exhibit T, #24 Exhibit U, #25 Exhibit V, #26 Exhibit W, #27 Exhibit X, #28 Exhibit Y, #29 Exhibit Z, #30 Exhibit AA, #31 Exhibit BB, #32 Exhibit CC, #33 Exhibit DD, #34 Exhibit EE, #35 Exhibit FF, #36 Exhibit GG, #37 Exhibit HH, #38 Exhibit II, #39 Exhibit JJ, #40 Exhibit KK, #41 Exhibit LL)(Related document(s) #424 ) (Bartlett, Jason) (Filed on 11/29/2011) Modified text on 11/30/2011 (dhm, COURT STAFF).

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Exhibit T Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SAN JOSE DIVISION 2 3 4 APPLE INC., a California corporation, 5 Case No. 11-cv-01846-LHK Plaintiff, 6 v. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD., a Korean business entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC., a New York corporation; SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware limited liability company, Defendants. C O N F I D E N T I A L A T T O R N E Y S' E Y E S O N L Y O U T S I D E C O U N S E L VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D. Washington, D.C. Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:30 a.m. 21 22 Job No. 41965 23 24 25 Reporter: Linda S. Kinkade, RDR, CRR, RMR, CSR Videographer: Conway Barker TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 2 1 2 3 4 5 The following is the videotaped deposition 6 of BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D. held at the offices 7 of: 8 9 10 Morrison & Foerster 11 2000 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. 12 Washington, DC 20005 13 14 15 16 Taken pursuant to applicable Rules of Civil 17 Procedure, before Linda S. Kinkade, Registered 18 Diplomate Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, 19 Registered Professional Reporter, Registered Merit 20 Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter (CA), and 21 Notary Public, in and for the District of Columbia. 22 23 24 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 3 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 4 On Behalf of Plaintiff APPLE INC., a California corporation: 5 MICHAEL A. JACOBS, ESQUIRE 6 DEOK KEUN AHN, ESQUIRE 7 Morrison & Foerster 8 425 Market Street 9 San Francisco, California 94105 10 11 12 13 14 15 On Behalf of Defendant SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.: 16 ERIC HUANG, ESQUIRE 17 AARON KAUFMAN, ESQUIRE 18 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan 19 51 Madison Avenue 20 22nd Floor 21 New York, New York 10010 22 23 24 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 78 1 BY MR. JACOBS: 2 Q. And is it the very same code that 3 executes that functionality in the following two 4 conditions: 5 bar is between email header images in the list; 6 condition 2, the email header is in the white 7 display space underneath the last -- below the 8 last of the email headers in the list? 9 10 Condition 1, the cursor highlight MR. HUANG: Objection to the form of the question. 11 THE WITNESS: You used the word email 12 header where I think you meant highlight cursor. 13 BY MR. JACOBS: 14 Q. I think I did, yes. 15 again. 16 So let me ask it can do it more clearly. 17 Maybe now that I have stated it orally I There are two possibilities for the email 18 highlight cursor to be out of alignment with 19 email headers. 20 between email headers; the other possibility is 21 it's after the last of the email headers. 22 Correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Is it the exact same code that causes 25 One possibility is it's in the email header to snap into alignment with the TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 79 1 email cursor bar in either of those two cases? 2 MR. HUANG: 3 THE WITNESS: Same objection. So there is only one 4 code sequence of flow that performs snapping, 5 and that same sequence is used wherever the 6 email list is positioned vertically, including 7 when the bottom-most email header is above the 8 bottom of the screen. 9 BY MR. JACOBS: 10 Q. And the -- it is possible that, when 11 the user lifts -- in the case of the depiction 12 on page 6 of your declaration -- when the user 13 lifts his finger, that the blue cursor bar and 14 email header image are in alignment, correct? 15 MR. HUANG: 16 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. So at the time the user 17 lifts off, it's possible that one of the email 18 headers is already completely aligned underneath 19 the highlight cursor -- highlight cursor. 20 BY MR. JACOBS: 21 Q. That's my question. 22 A. Yes, that's possible. 23 Q. So I think you did this before, but if 24 you could just again point us to the code that 25 tests whether that condition has been met. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 84 1 Do you see that? 2 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. What's the reference to depending on 4 the degree of the over-pan? 5 MR. HUANG: 6 THE WITNESS: Objection, form. If in the example that's 7 described here with these images, for a concrete 8 example, if the user has dragged -- moves -- 9 touches the screen, drags their finger up so 10 they are moving the email list up, and the 11 bottom-most email header is above the bottom of 12 the screen, if -- so this is the over-pan 13 position -- if they have over-panned to a degree 14 such that that bottom email header is partially 15 overlapping with the highlight cursor, then it 16 will snap back so that the bottom-most email 17 header is aligned with the bottom of the screen 18 in this situation. 19 BY MR. JACOBS: 20 Q. And if -- so in order for the snap 21 back to occur, there must be some partial 22 overlap at the end -- when the user lifts his 23 finger? 24 MR. HUANG: 25 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. If the -- it depends on TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 85 1 how much the bottom email header is above the 2 bottom of the screen. 3 I said, depending on the degree of the over-pan, 4 if the degree is such that there is some 5 overlap, then it will snap back. 6 BY MR. JACOBS: 7 Q. 8 A. I believe then it does not snap back. Then I believe it just stays in that position. 11 12 And if the degree is such that there is no overlap, what happens? 9 10 So if it's -- that's why Q. And that's just a function of the state of the code as -- let me start over again. 13 That is because the code in its -- in the 14 state in which you've provided it to us doesn't 15 have a case for no overlap or beyond overlap; is 16 that correct? 17 A. Well, the code -- it does what it 18 does. 19 features and interactions, as we talked about, 20 and that's what it does. 21 I mean, it does a very specific set of Q. So -- Let me ask it this way. Point us 22 where in the code the test is set forth in a way 23 that such that that constraint, that there must 24 be some overlap is present. 25 A. So in Exhibit 212 -TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 86 1 Q. Email.cs. 2 A. -- Email.cs, pages 29 to 30, method 3 SnapObjectToHighlight, around the fifth line of 4 code it calls, GetIntersectingEmailItemBounds. 5 As we discussed earlier, this returns the 6 rectangle representing the bounds of the email 7 header that most overlaps the highlight cursor 8 implemented by that 9 GetIntersectingEmailItemBounds method. If we're 10 in this condition where there is no email header 11 that overlaps -- sorry. 12 condition where the bounds of every email header 13 does not overlap the bounds of the highlight 14 cursor, then this method will return a 15 sourceRectangle whose value is empty. 16 If we're in the The next line of code in 17 SnapObjectToHighlight says, if sourceRectangle is 18 not empty, then it calls SnapPositionToObject. 19 in the case we're talking about, sourceRectangle 20 would be empty and this SnapPositionToObject method 21 would not get called. 22 Q. So So I may not have been tracking your 23 description. 24 well, four lines up from the bottom, if you 25 include the brace, there is if sourceRectangle On the bottom of page 29, three -- TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 148 1 2 panning or attempting to pan the screen. Q. And how does it -- what happens when 3 there is no, in our case, where there is no Zone 4 to the right? 5 A. I'm just going to look at this code 6 for a moment. 7 minute so that it will settle. I'll figure this out in another 8 Q. Not a problem. 9 A. To be honest, I'm having a little 10 trouble understanding exactly how this code 11 works. 12 consistent with how it behaved, so I'm likely 13 misunderstanding something here. 14 Q. My interpretation of the code is not Let me come at the topic this way. 15 is the case, as we discussed, that you can't 16 cause the Zone to move to the left when the 17 right-most boundary of the Zone does not have 18 adjacent to it on the right another Zone, 19 correct? 20 MR. HUANG: 21 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I think -- let me 22 just -- 23 BY MR. JACOBS: 24 Q. Say it your way. 25 A. There is a grid of 3x3 Zones that's TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 It Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 149 1 fixed in the code. 2 right-most column, that is, any of the three 3 right Zones, and you try and drag to the left, 4 you will not be able to drag to the left. 5 Q. Why? So if you were in the Why did you design it that way? 6 MR. HUANG: 7 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I don't recall our 8 thinking in that specific design decision. 9 BY MR. JACOBS: 10 Q. Was it a design decision? 11 MR. HUANG: 12 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. Or possibly a lack of a 13 design decision. 14 thinking was for that particular interaction 15 detail. 16 BY MR. JACOBS: 17 Q. 18 I don't remember what our The source code for LaunchTile, were you able to locate that? 19 A. No, I was not. 20 Q. Any idea what happened to it? 21 A. Well, I know that Amy Karlson was 22 primarily responsible for writing it. 23 she managed source code, and I don't think I 24 probably followed it in that much detail. 25 that's why I -- when I looked, I didn't have it, TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 I believe So Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 160 1 well demonstrating it. 2 BY MR. JACOBS: 3 Q. So that's what I recall. Were you demonstrating the software in 4 a live basis in conformance with what was 5 demonstrated on the video? 6 map what was on the video to your live 7 demonstration? 8 MR. HUANG: 9 THE WITNESS: Were you trying to Objection to the form. No. The video was a 10 short, you know, narrow summary, and when we 11 gave live demos it was much more casual. 12 would typically hand the device over to whoever 13 we were showing it to, let them do whatever they 14 want, ask us any questions. 15 seen the video, so they typically would want to 16 go beyond that. 17 BY MR. JACOBS: 18 Q. We They had already Do you recall anything specifically 19 being demonstrated in May 2005 that wasn't in 20 the video? 21 A. I don't recall the specific details of 22 what was or was not shown to any specific 23 individual. 24 25 Q. Let me show you an email that you produced to us. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 198 1 Then at time 1:15 seconds the user again 2 touched the screen, dragged down, let go, which 3 resulted in snapping forward to the Zone above. 4 And that's the end of the video. 5 BY MR. JACOBS: 6 Q. In either of the videos did we see the 7 activity that's described in paragraph 14 of 8 your declaration? 9 10 11 12 13 A. Neither video showed the activity described in paragraph 14 of my declaration. Q. And that's what your declaration calls the under-panning case, correct? A. I don't think -- paragraph 14 doesn't 14 use that term, but I believe this describes the 15 concept that was described earlier as 16 under-panning. 17 Q. And to get back to the way the source 18 code works, that's the case where in the 19 three-stage interaction sequence where, after 20 landing on the screen, the finger is moved less 21 than 20% in the relevant direction -- sorry -- 22 yes, less than one-sixth in the relevant 23 direction such that there is what the 24 declaration describes as a snapback. 25 A. Correct. TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 204 1 LaunchTile is motivated by the idea that, if 2 there are some places that are convenient for 3 the interface to go to, then you should make the 4 interface naturally take you to those places and 5 not let you get stuck in inconvenient places. 6 7 Q. So you published an article recently, "The Promise of Zoomable User Interfaces." 8 Mark this as the next in order. 9 (Exhibit No. 222 marked for 10 identification.) 11 BY MR. JACOBS: 12 Q. The Promise of Zoomable User 13 Interfaces by Benjamin B. Bederson, 2011, Taylor 14 & Francis. 15 16 A. What was this published in? This was published in a journal named Behaviour & Information Technology. 17 Q. In 2011? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. On page 4 you have a discussion of 20 Desert Fog citing Jul and Furnas. 21 labels a phenomena that you describe as allowing 22 users to fly through the space going absolutely 23 anywhere including deep into the spaces between 24 objects. 25 A. Desert Fog Do you see that? No, actually. Sorry. TSG Reporting - Worldwide Where are you? (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 205 1 Q. It's on the right-hand column of -- 2 it's such a vivid image I thought it might just 3 jump from the page. 4 page 4, second paragraph. The right-hand column of 5 A. Yes, I see this. 6 Q. So just to maybe start a little bit 7 earlier, different zoomable user interfaces have 8 also had various navigation mechanisms, which 9 are ways for users to move through the space. 10 Again, there is a trade-off between flexibility 11 and usability. 12 fly through the space going absolutely anywhere, 13 including deep into the spaces between objects, 14 resulting in some researchers labeling this 15 phenomenon Desert Fog, Jul and Furnas. 16 say, very few other applications let a user 17 navigate beyond the actual content. 18 19 Some interfaces allow users to Then you Can you explain the contrast you were drawing there between ZUIs and other applications? 20 MR. HUANG: 21 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. Sure. So if we continue 22 reading this paragraph, it describes this idea 23 of not letting you navigate between the actual 24 content. 25 document browser and editor limits navigation to I believe it says, almost every TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 206 1 the available content with the notable exception 2 of Microsoft Excel's scroll bar arrows, Apple 3 numbers, and Google -- I'm sorry -- with the 4 notable exception of Microsoft Excel's scroll 5 bar arrows. 6 spreadsheet, on the other hand, do limit 7 navigation. 8 allow you only to click on objects to zoom into 9 them and click on a zoom out button to zoom out, Apple numbers and Google On the other hand, some interfaces 10 making it impossible to get lost, but also 11 giving less control over exactly where you look. 12 So the point of this paragraph was to 13 describe that there are some applications that let 14 the user navigate in space possibly -- navigating 15 can be simple scrolling or it could be this kind of 16 zooming navigation, which is a little bit more 17 uncommon, or it could be 3-D navigation in a 3-D 18 world. 19 Sorry. I was describing that sometimes you 20 can navigate to a place where there is no content. 21 If there is no content, then you're kind of in a 22 place that essentially -- typically -- represented 23 with an empty screen. 24 because that would make a user feel disoriented 25 since there is nothing on the screen. And that was a concern TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 207 1 And I said that it was more common for 2 applications to stop a user from navigating to a 3 place where there was no content, although it 4 occurred, both in widespread applications like Excel 5 and in many ZUIs, in at least those. 6 Q. So the basic contrast you were drawing 7 was between those ZUIs that are flexible but 8 haven't addressed this problem of getting lost 9 in Desert Fog, and most applications which do 10 constrain you to the space that's filled by 11 content. 12 of your paragraph correctly? 13 14 Is that -- am I capturing the essence MR. HUANG: Objection to the form of the question. 15 THE WITNESS: The paragraph said -- 16 well, it didn't say "most." 17 few applications that let you move to a place 18 where there is no content, although I did 19 describe some, and many constrained you to 20 navigating only within available, visible 21 content. 22 BY MR. JACOBS: 23 Q. It said there were And that -- but you were describing 24 that, as of 2011, there remains this problem in 25 ZUIs of flying through the space going TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 216 1 underline the point, if one were to click on or 2 otherwise seek to get the underlying text of the 3 email on this device, the device does not have 4 the full email underneath the header, correct? 5 6 MR. HUANG: Objection to the form of the question. 7 THE WITNESS: If you tap on one of 8 these email, I believe -- so, I guess, if you 9 press this button, it opens up a special kind of 10 menu, and, if you press the plus button, then it 11 will open up a representation of an email. 12 BY MR. JACOBS: 13 Q. 14 Is that the same email for every header? 15 A. Yes, it is. 16 Q. So it's kind of a -- this is really a 17 prototype of what it could -- what this device 18 could do if you figured out how to get an email 19 client to create images for each header, store 20 them in the database, and link them to the 21 underlying message, correct? 22 A. I think you just proposed a possible 23 architecture for implementing an email system. 24 So what I would say is this is a prototype that 25 demonstrates how email can work in this TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 217 1 environment. 2 Q. With a prepopulated database of images 3 representing email headers and a single email 4 text, correct? 5 MR. HUANG: 6 THE WITNESS: Objection to the form. I would say with a 7 hard-coded set of email headers and a single 8 content of email. 9 BY MR. JACOBS: 10 Q. 11 12 Thank you. MR. JACOBS: Let's go off the record again. 13 VIDEOGRAPHER: 14 Off the record at 4:43. (Proceedings recessed.) 15 VIDEOGRAPHER: 16 4:45. 17 BY MR. JACOBS: 18 Q. Back on the record at So a couple other devices were given 19 to us by Quinn Emanuel, counsel for Samsung, and 20 I want to just check with you if you know 21 anything about the providence of those devices 22 and the appearance that one sees when one opens 23 them up. 24 25 So we have this iPAQ here that we received, and we've taken a picture of the TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 223 1 A. 2 3 Correct. MR. JACOBS: I think we're done. Thank you. 4 MR. HUANG: 5 THE WITNESS: 6 VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you. Thank you. This concludes the 7 deposition of Dr. Bederson. 8 4:57 and it consists of five tapes. 9 Off the record at (Proceedings concluded.) 10 11 12 // (Signature having not been waived, the 13 deposition of BENJAMIN B. BEDERSON, Ph.D. 14 concluded at 4:57 p.m.) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580 Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only Outside Counsel Page 224 1 CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER 2 NOTARY PUBLIC 3 4 I, Linda S. Kinkade, RDR, CRR, RMR, CSR, 5 the notarial officer before whom the foregoing 6 proceedings were taken, do hereby certify that the 7 foregoing transcript is a true and correct record of 8 the proceedings; that said proceedings were taken by 9 me stenographically, to the best of my ability, and 10 thereafter reduced to typewriting; and that I am 11 neither counsel for or related to, nor employed by 12 any of the parties to this case and have no 13 interest, financial or otherwise, in its outcome. 14 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 15 hand and affixed my notarial seal this 17th day of 16 September 2011. 17 18 19 _______________________________ Linda S. Kinkade 20 21 22 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 23 THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 24 My commission expires: July 14, 2012 25 TSG Reporting - Worldwide (877)-702-9580

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