City of St. Clair Shores General Employees Retirement System v. Lender Processing Services, Inc. et al

Filing 41

AMENDED COMPLAINT against Jeffrey S. Carbiener, Francis K. Chan, Lee A. Kennedy, Lender Processing Services, Inc., Michelle Kersch with Jury Demand filed by Baltimore County Employees Retirement System. (Attachments: # 1 Appendix Index of Exhibits, # 2 Exhibit A, # 3 Exhibit B, # 4 Exhibit C, # 5 Exhibit D, # 6 Exhibit E, # 7 Exhibit F, # 8 Exhibit G, # 9 Exhibit H, # 10 Exhibit I, # 11 Exhibit J, # 12 Exhibit K, # 13 Exhibit L, # 14 Exhibit M)(Reise, Jack)

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EXHIBIT J I ,, IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE NINTH JUICIAL CIRCUIT IN AN FOR ORAGE COUNTY, FLORIDA WELLS FARGO BANK, N.A., AS TRUSTEE FOR OPTION ONE MORTGAGE LOAN TRUST 2007-4 ASSET-BACKE CERTIFICATES, SERIES 2007-4, . Plaintiffs, vs. Case No. : 2009-CA-007640-0 STANLEY W. MAISKOVIC, JR., ET AL, Defendants. / Deposition of CHERYL DENISE THOMAS, held on March 23, 2011, at 1755 North Brown Road, Lawrenceville, Georgia, commencing at 9: 53 a.m., before Mary Ann Hanham, Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Georgia. 10 C. THOMAS 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. And I also have my tax forms for 3 '98 and I i m sorry, i 09 , , 10 , and, I 4 believe, '08. 5 Q. okay. May :i see those documents; 6 please? A. 7 8 Sure. MS . SUMACEWSKI: Again, I obj ect to 9 the relevancy of these documents. Thank you. 10 MR. BLEVINS: 11 I don't know if we need to - - can 12 we make copies to put as part of the 13 exhibits, if I ask her questions about those 14 things? . 15 THE COURT REPORTER: (Nodding head.) BLEVINS : 16 BY-MR. 17 Q. Okay. MS. Thomas, you - - you stated 18 before that you were wo:rking fo:r DOCX and 19 then for LPS, whenever they took ove:r for 20 DOCX, when it be came LPS , co:rre ct ? 21 A. Correct. 22 23 Q. your Okay. What was your position or and your duties as far as when you 24 were wo:rking for DOCX? 25 A. Well, I I held -- positions. I 11 c. THOMAS 1 did a lot of different departments. They 2 did a lot of lateral moves for me. The 3 last thing that I was doing was in the 4 reject department, when it was upon closing, 5 that was the last job title that I held, but 6 I held different ones. 7 Q. What is the reject department? 8 A. That's when a document might go out 9 10 and it has an er:ror on it. would send it back. And the company . And we correct the 11 error and send it back out again. 12 Q. What kind of documents are we 13 talking about? 14 15 A. Any kind of loan documents. could be, like, a modification. It It could be 16 an assignment, just the loan number, the 17 amount could be wrong, the spelling of the 18 name and address could be wrong, something to 19 that nature. 20 21 Q. And when you say "loan documents, II a:re we talking about the or modification 22 documents, are we talking about the actual 23 new mortgages and notes or are we talking 24 about something different? 25 A. There were mortgages that came. .. 23 1 c. THOMAS about? I mean, do you have any idea of how 2 many people were working at DOCX during that 3 time? 4 5 A. See, when I started, it was probably about 30. By the time we ended, it was 6 probably a good 100, 150, maybe. 7 Q. And when did when is the date 8 that you refer to as the ending date? 9 A. April 1st or April 2nd was the 10 actual due date, but they let us go April 11 the 1st. 12 Q. Of what year? 13 A. 2009. 14 Q. Okay. So were were you also 15 employed at DOCX and LPS as a notary? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. Did you notarize different 18 documents? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How many about how many documents 21 would you notarize on any given at any 22 given time? 23 A. That i s flexible. It could be 24 anywhere from one to a thousand documents in 25 one day. 26 C. THOMAS And, of course, we questioned it. 1 2 Because it's like, well, why can't I be in 3 there? 4 need to see it. 5 told. 6 Q. If they're signing their name, I WeIli just do what you i re And so you did what you were told. Now, that i s kind of what I Okay. 7 want to get at is, when you say you 8 questioned it, what do you mean by 9 "questioned it"? A. 10 Questioned it in terms of if 11 somebody' s name is on the document and I'm a 12 notary, I have to see that person sign the 13 document. And so when I when I say 14 that, I've said it a number of times, you 15 know, to my supervisors. 16 like, well, you 17 do. And they were, you got your own work to And you go in there, you know all of 18 those people are already in the room signing i 19 you just go in there and sign when it's your 20 time, stuff like that. So it depends on 21 what day. 22 Q. Okay. So if I understand your 23 testimony correctly then, either_ 24 _ or Renee Gaglione, whoever it may be, 25 actually instructed you not to be in the 27 C. THOMAS 1 room, in some circumstances, when these 2 things were being signed? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. So there were times that you would 5 notarize something where you didn i tactually 6 physically watch the person sign the 7 document? 8 A. 9 Q. Correct. DO you have any idea you may 10 not, but do you have any idea of how many 11 of those documents you would have notarized 12 without actually seeing the person sign? I really couldn't sayan idea. I 14 really couldn't say a number to be accurate. 15 i couldn't even say close to a number. It A. 13 it could be a thousand documents. 16 17 I I it could be more or it could be less. I 19 just know there was a lot of times that we 18 I really couldn't give an exact number. 20 didn't. 21 22 23 We knew the person was in there, but we didn't physically see them sign. SO the setup of, I guess, your Q. offices is that there is a room ~erè t\ese i*'ople " are signing these documents? A. Correct. ... ."" 24 25 31 c. THOMAS 1 see a person sign a document, you know what 2 was on the document, so that when you 3 notarize it, it i S an accurate signature. 4 Q. Okay. Now, when you would notarize 5 these documents, whether you would watch them 6 sign it or not, some of these people signed 7 as corporate officers i correct, vice 8 presidents, secretaries, stuff like that? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. Were you ever provided any 11 information regarding their authori ty to sign 12 in those capacities? 13 14 A. NO, that is another question that wei of cou-rse I. have., o.f.. course, aroused 15 many times. 16 When you say you raised that issue i Q. 17 can you describe how that situation went? 18 19 THE WITNESS: Relevancy. MS. SUMACEWSKI : Again, you do what 20 you're told. 21 have legal documentation. You just it i S covered. We It i S covered. 22 That i s really all you would get from them. 23 Q. Okay. So when these people would 24 sign as these corporate officers i they never 25 producedi to you, anything that shows that I 32 c. THOMAS 1 am this officer, whatever that position may 2 be? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. And when you raised this 5 issue with them, they just told you to do 6 what you were required to do? 7 8 A. legal. Yeah, we got it covered. You can do it. We're That i s fine, just 9 notarize it. 10 Q. Now, you said that Tywanna is your 11 daughter? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. DO you have any information or know 14 any information about her being a corporate 15 officer? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Are you currently a notary? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Okay. Did you just not reinstate 20 your license or what happened? 21 22 A. Once I moved the So once I because we company was in Fulton County. 23 moved, I addressed that with Renee, which was 24 such a blessing for me. 25 Gwinnett. And 11m in So Ilm like, I'm no more. And 33 C. THOMAS 1 that's when they well, upon us leaving 2 anyway, they took up our notary stamps and 3 everything and destroyed them. But I was 4 relieved of my duties once I moved to 5 Gwinnett County. 6 7 Q. that? A. 8 9 them. who Who I i m sorry, did I miss Who destroyed those documents? I can't say exactly who destroyed All i know is that Jeffrey .- 11 the supervisor in the signing room at that time, he picked up everyone 's stamp, the 12 notaries i stamps. 10 13 Q. He 14 A. He 15 took your stamps? took our stamps. And and they were destroying them. 16 Q. How were they destroying them? 17 A. I don i t know how. He just said 18 they were picking up all of the stamps i all 19 of the notary stamps. And they were going 20 to destroy them, because the company was 21 closing. And they were only supposed to be 22 used for that company. 23 Q. DO you know the names of any of the 24 other notaries that were there at the time? 25 A. Wow. I can't say, because, at that 42 c. THOMAS 1 I would like to show you another Q. 2 document. 3 Exhibit-c. We're going to call it Defense Actually, what we'll do is we'll 4 call this Composite Exhibit-C, because there's 5 going to be multiple documents here. 6 (Whereupon, Exhibit-c through C-10 7 were marked for identification.) 8 MS . SUMACEWSKI : Objection to 9 relevancy, authenticity to these documents. 10 BY-MR.BLEVINS: 11 Q. Ms. Thomas, is this another familiar 12 type of form that you witnessed while you 13 were working at DOCX? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. This is another Assignment of 16 Mortgage, correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. Okay. Now, this one is from 19 Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems as 20 the nominee for American Home Mortgage 21 Acceptance, Incorporated, correct? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. Do you know the people who signed 24 this document? 25 A. Yes. 43 C. 'lHOMA Do you have any independent knowledge Q. 1 2 as to whether or not you were in the room 3 when this dooument was oreated or when you 4 signed it? 5 A. I was. 6 Q. Okay. Were you actually in the 7 room? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And how do you know tha t you were 10 actually in the room? 11 A. Because I actually signed. 12 Q. Okay. And you signed in what 13 capacity? 14 A. As a vice president. 15 Q. Are you or do you have any documents 16 to show that you are, in fact, a vice 17 president of any oompany? 18 A. 19 raised. 20 Q. Again, another question that we No, not at all. Okay. So as to your knowledge, 21 you're neither a vice president for Mortgage 22 Electronic Registration Systems, Incorporated? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Or for American Home Mortgage 25 Acceptance, Incorporated? 45 c. THOMAS Q. 1 Was she in the room when you all 2 signed this document? I 3 A. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. ' - - hoiiestbY'". 6 Q. I really couldn i t say -- And just for clarification, this is 7 the Assignment of Mortg'age~' 'beb.wte.en Jason 8 Cross, signed by Ma:rtgage Electronic 9 Registration Systems as nominee for American 10 Home Mortgage Acceptance, Incorporated. 11 MS . SUMACEWSKI : Objection as to 12 reI evancy . 13 Q. Okay. Now, the remainder of the 14 documents, Ms. Thomas, are other Assignments 15 of Mo:rtgages, if you want to take an 16 opportunity just to look through those real 17 quick. 18 These all look fairly familiar to 19 you? A. The different names and the people, 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I 20 ii yes. 24 i do know that some the. sig.natures are changing. And I 25 truthfully say it's. because they have some of I can 46 1 surrogate signers. 2 3 Q. Okay. to you about. C. THOMAS That's what I want to talk Let's start from the first 4 Assignment of Mortgage, which is another 5 Assignment of Mortgage from Jason Cross, from 6 Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems as 7 nominee for American Home Mortgage Acceptance, 8 Incorporated, which is compos! te C and we 1 II 9 call this 2. 10 MS. SUMACEWSKI: Objection to 11 relevancy; authenticity. 12 Q. Now, these people who signed this 13 document, you didn 1 t notarize this one, .14 correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Okay. But do you recognize the 17 signatures of those who did sign the 18 document? 19 20 A. I kind of recognize them, yes, from again, you sign so many documents. But 21 to my knowledge, that i s kind of their 22 signature, yes. 23 24 Q. Okay. And the one I want you to pay potential attention to or particular 2S attention to is Tywanna Thomas r s signature. 47 C. THOMAS 1 Is that her signature? A. 2 Once again, they change so much, but 3 i do know that she was one of the ones that 4 had a surrogate signer -5 Q. 6 A. 7 Q. 8 A. Okay. so.. . So If I if I look through these 9 documents, I can see that her signature has 10 changed a lot. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. So I don't know which one is a 13 surrogate and which one... 14 Q. Well, what I want to ask you, 15 though, is, I'm going to need you to tell me 16 definitively whether or not this one on -17 on C-2 is Tywanna Thomas's signature. 18 A. C-2? . 19 Q. Yes, this document :right here, yes .20 (indicating) . A. 21 To my knowledge, that's the way she 22 signs, yes. 23 Q. Okay. Now, turn to the next 24 Assignment of Mortgage, which we will call 25 C-3. This Assignment of Mortgage also has 48 C. THOMS 1 Tywanna Thomas's signature on it, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. Is that her signature? 4 A. That's also close. MS. SUMACEWSKI: 5 I will say yes. Obj ection to form; 6 relevancy; and authenticity. 7 MR. BLEVINS: DO you want to make .8 that standing, because I'm going to ask the 9 same question for all of them? 10 MS. SUMACEWSK:i : Yeah, fo:r all of 11 these assignments as to authenticity, 12 relevancy, and form. 13 BY-MR.BLEVINS: 14 Q. Okay. Now, Ms. Thomas, I want to 15 talk to you about C-4, which you're looking 16 at right now. Is that do you see that 17 Tywanna Thomas signed this assignment as 18 well? 19 A. I would say that's different. 20 that would probably be a surrogate. 21 Q. That's a surrogate? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Are you sure? 24 A. I said that would probably be a 25 surrogate. I would think so, yes. I 49 C. THOMAS 1 2 Q. Okay. And, als.o, she, at this time, signed as an assistant vice president. Now, 3 you've said before, though, that you don't 4 believe that you i ve ever seen any 5 documentation showing that she actually is an 6 assi.stant vice president? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. But on the very first document, she 9 signed as an assistant secretary. Are you 10 aware of any documentation or anything that 11 would have occurred that changed her 12 position? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. I want to talk to you about, 15 what we'll call, C-5. 16 should be Leticia S. 17 signed this Assignment of Mortgage? A. That looks like a surrogate signer. Okay. And why do you say that? Q. A. Her name is more fuller, the first name would be more fuller. And she don't her T is not like that. 18 19 20 21 22 23 The borrower's name Okay. Tywanna Thomas Q. Okay. Now, when you we '11 come 24 back to that. 25 i would like you to turn to C- 6. 50 C. THOMAS 1 Do you recognize these signatures? A. 2 3 I'm not familiar with Veronica that Veronica - _? is I'm not familiar with 4 that, but the other two, Chris Pendley and 5 Lisa and Christina, yes. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. To my knowledge, yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 10 II Are those their signatures? I would like you to turn to The bor:rower' s name should be Dillon C-7. Campbell. A. Do you recognize these signatures? That Tywanna is a little shady, but 12 it could have been one of those times she 13 was probably moving through the documents. 14 So I wouldn't say yes or no to that one. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. I wouldn't -- .'yeah, I wouldn't say So you don't know? 17 yes or no to that, because it's 18 close. But I it '8 I wouldn i t say yes or no 19 to that, whether it was a su:r:rogate signer 20 on tha t one or not. 21 Q. And, again, this time she's signing 22 as an assistant vice president? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Okay. 25 turn to C-8. Now i I would i ike you to The borrower's name should be 1 Steven 51 C. THOMAS Do you recognize these lEt. 2 signatures? 3 A. Tywanl1a,iflPin, is is that IS a 4 surrogate signer. And Linda Green, tha.t' s a S surrogate signer. .6 Q. And how do you know that? 7 A. How do I know she had a surrogate 8 signer? 9 Q. Yes, malam. 10 A. It was several people in the office 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 that had surrogate signers, that I do know. I know that because of notary purposes. Q. Okay. A. It's Q. Okay. questions that came up when Linda Green didn't look like Linda Green and you asked me to notarize it. one of the And we'll call this one C-9. 18 Do you recognize these signatures for the 19 Assignment of Mortgage and the borrower's 20 name is Brenda ? 21 A. I recognize those signatures, yes. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Let's turn to C-10. the borrower's name is Jack This is 7 . 24 This one doesn't have Tywanna Thomas's 25 signature on it, correct? 52 C. THOMAS 1 A. correct. 2 Q. Would that have been a problem for 3 you all as far as notarizing these documents 4 if that doc- if that signature was 5 missing? 6 MS . SUMACEWSKI : 7 THE WITNESS: Obj ect to form. Let's just say it it would have came back to 8 would have 9 bite us more than it would them. But with 10 the process, like I say, the way they have 11 us doing work, they 12 out the door. 13 room later. 14 they're getting stuff They want you to go in the And if you miss a signature or or you miss something or it's it just 15 comes back to bite you in the butt later, 16 but they they're rushing stuff out the 17 door, because there's always a timetable. 18 There's always a time limit, I should say. 19 Q. Now, when you say come back to bite 20 us versus them, whö -is us and who is them? 21 A. Us in terms of notaries. 22 Q. And them? 23 A. Them would be the managers. 24 Q. So you think - - 25 A. We would take the fall for it before 53 c. THOMAS 1 they would. 2 Q. You would take the fall? 3 A. We 4 we wouldn't have a choice but to take the fall for it. Because they would 5 be like, well, you should have paid 6 attention, but you're constantly rushing stuff 7 out the door. . you know, you're You're 8 you're constantly running us here and there and saying do this and do that. So 10 sometimes you get there, you just sign it 9 11 and you keep on going. I've Sometimes 12 I've known of 13 incidents of some notaries that probably 14 would have been in the room and signed, so 15 16 17 they could go do what they had to do. it i s just It i s it jus t depends on the manager and what day she how she was 18 feeling that day. 19 Q. Okay. Now, I want to go back to 20 something you touched on here in a second, 21 but I would like to ask you, and if you 22 want to take a minute and flip through it, 23 that's fine, but do you have any knowledge 24 of these documents being signed without the 25 presence of a notary? 54 c. THOMAS A. 1 2 I can i t say. I I can't say yes or no. knowledge of it. 3 Q. Okay. I don It hàve any But these would have been the 4 type of documents that would have been 5 potentially notarized without one of you 6 notaries being in the room? 7 MS. SUMACEWSKI: 8 Form. THE WITNESS: 9 10 Q. Okay. Possibly. Now, the surrogate signers, how did that work? How did the surrogate 11 signing situation occur? 12 A. I can1t say how it -occurred. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. When it was brought to my attention, 15 it was a particular day, I can't say what 16 day it was, but we were all in the room and 17 we were informed that we were going to have 18 surrogate signers. Because some of the 19 people that were on the documents had a lot 20 of work to do, so they brought in different 21 temps to sign for them. And they let us 22 they told us that it was legal and it was 23 okay. And they even had a form that 24 let's just say Tywanna, for instance, it 25 would be a it was a form that we would 55 C. 'lROMAS 1 see and Tywanna would sign her name the way 2 she signs her name. And if John . was 3 her surrogate signer, he would sign Tywanna' s 4 name the way he signs Tywanna r S name. 5 Sometimes it was close. Sometimes it wasn't. 6 But they told us that it was legal 7 documentation, that it was okay for Joe 8 to si.gn Tywanna' s name this way, because of 9 the form that they had, so... 10 Q. Can you can you describe the form 11 for me? 12 13 A. time. I really can r t. It's been a long And it was just that one time. 14 never seen the form after that. 15 Q. I've And what was your understanding of 16 what the form was? 17 A. That it was a legal fo:rm that 18 Tywanna Thomas would sign her name a certain 19 way and Joe £ 20 however - - however he signs it. 7 would sign it close or And. it was 21 legal for him to do that, because Tywanna 22 had a lot more work to do. And she didn't 23 have time to sign the documents. 24 So, in othe:r words, we would have 25 had to wait on Tywanna to come in, in which 56 C. THOMAS 1 - - Tywanna wasn't the only one that had a 2 surrogate signe:r, but we would have..,'it.o wait 3 for Tywanna to come in before we could 4 So they had, like, finish out the document. 5 four or five different surrogate signers. 6 Now, when you say they told you that Q. 7 this was legal or they told you to fill out 8 this form, who is "they"? 9 10 The managers, Renee Gaglione again, Jeffrey . . also, and Shelly. Shelly A. 11 Scheffey was also one of the supervisors. 12 She informed us. She was in there during 13 that conversation. 14 manager. Kim French, she was a She was also in there. And I 15 want to say that the HR person was in there, 16 Carol 17 in ii £1. I want to say she was also in the room at that tìme. That 18 that's basically it, I think, for supervisors 19 that were iop thlè room, that I can remember 20 21 that I can recalL. more. I just There could have been it was mainly people in 22 the room, more like notaries and, you know, 23 some of the people's names that' were actually 24 on the documents. 25 Q. Okay. 57 C. THOMAS A. 1 It was, like, maybe 30 to 40 people 2 in the room, so... 3 Q. And the process that you i re 4 describing or. the procedures you J re 5 describing, that occurred at DOCX? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Did it also occur at LPS? 8 A. It -- it was still going on during 9 10 LPS, yes, and it more towards th~ end. and then it tapered off You know, they kind 11 of got rid of all of the surrogate signers 12 towards the end. ' 13 Q. When you say you guys - - and you 14 mentioned this before, that you raised an 15 issue about this, what was the explanation 16 that was gi veli to you as to why this was 17 okay? A. 18 They just said legal documents. Well, 19 it was mainly Renee. I shouldn J t say they. 20 It was mainly Renee. She would just say 21 this is a legal document, you know. We 22 we have authorization to do it this way, you 23 know. 24 just do it, just sign your name. We know what we're doing, just We got to 25 get this out the door, just do what you're 58 1 told. 2 Q. c. THOMAS Did you ever notarize any documents 3 that you knew a surrogate had signed? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What happened to these documents 6 after you aii signed it or notarized these 7 documents? 8 A. They were shipped out. 9 Q. Were you asked to keep track of 10 different state jurisdictions, county 11 jurisdictions as far as what was required on 12 these documents? 13 A. As 14 Q. For example, if you were given an as what? 15 Assignment of Mortgage from Florida, would 16 you handle that differently than if you were 17 handed an Assignment of Mortgage from, say, 18 Georgia? 19 A. I wouldn't personally, no, I wasn't 20 given anything pertaining to that. 21 there was different jurisdictions, but it I know 22 wasn't something that I had memorized or had 23 any knowledge of. That would be data entry 24 that would, you know, do something upon that. 25 Q. Do you know what goes into or what i s 64 C. THOMAS 1 2 A. Looking at that signature there, that that could have very well been one of 3 Tywanna' s surrogates on that one (indicating). 4 5 You would have made sure that the Q. surrogate was was there, though? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And did anybody keep you from the 8 room saying that you're not allowed to go in 9 the room, that it's none of your business 10 who's in the room? 11 A. Renee would say that from time to 12 time, yes. 13 But you Q. you personally checked 14 yourself? 15 A. Sometimes when you know, unless 16 you're going to have a run-in with her and, 17 you know, there i s your job, you just kind of 18 did what you were told 19 20 Was that Q. A. stay out of the room, you know. 21 When it i s time for you to go in, they 'll 22 call you. 23 Q. Was that for expediency purposes, 24 though? 25 A. Yes, but, yet again, it i s it 77 C. THOMAS When you said you would come in and i 2 identify the people in the room, you said 3 something about there is her surrogate, 4 talking about Tywanna Thomas. Do you know 5 6 A. Or whoeve:r . 7 Q. Okay. Do 8 Or whoever. you know specifically who Tywanna 12 surrogate was? A. I believe she had a couple. Again, like I said, when - - when they hired a lot of the temps, they - - they hired them mainly 13 for that purpose. 9 10 11 Thomas's Some -- for that purpose. 14 And, like, they hired some for notaries as 15 well. 16 that purpose. But they hired a lot of temps for At that time, her surrogate 17 was 2 a . 18 Q. ,- ? 19 A. Uh-huh. 20 Q. What's - - do you have a last name? 21 A. 22 Q. .., like 7 II 23 A. Correct. 24 don't want I don't want to mess up her 25 last name, (phonetic), something like ... ? At one time, 7 t. I

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