Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President and Fellows of Harvard College et al

Filing 569

Opposition re 547 MOTION in Limine filed by Students for Fair Admissions, Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1, # 2 Exhibit 2, # 3 Exhibit 3, # 4 Exhibit 4, # 5 Exhibit 5, # 6 Exhibit 6, # 7 Exhibit 7, # 8 Exhibit 8, # 9 Exhibit 9, # 10 Exhibit 10, # 11 Exhibit 11, # 12 Exhibit 12, # 13 Exhibit 13, # 14 Exhibit 14, # 15 Exhibit 15, # 16 Exhibit 16)(Mortara, Adam) (Attachment 6 replaced on 10/1/2018) (McDonagh, Christina). (Additional attachment(s) added on 10/2/2018: # 17 Unredacted Memorandum in Opposition (FILED UNDER SEAL), # 18 Exhibit 4 (Filed Under Seal)) (McDonagh, Christina).

Exhibit 15

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS
BOSTON DIVISION

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STUDENTS FOR FAIR ADMISSIONS,
INC.,

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Plaintiff,
Civil Action No.
1:14-cv-14176

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vs.

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PRESIDENT AND FELLOWS OF HARVARD
COLLEGE (HARVARD CORPORATION);
and THE HONORABLE AND REVEREND
THE BOARD OF OVERSEERS,

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Defendants.
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- HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY 13
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DEPOSITION OF CATHERINE DREW

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GILPIN FAUST, a witness called by the

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Plaintiff, taken pursuant to the

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applicable provisions of the Federal

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Rules of Civil Procedure, before James A.

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Scally, RMR, CRR, a Notary Public in and

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for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at

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Harvard University, Massachusetts Hall,

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Cambridge, Massachusetts, on Friday,

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March 10, 2017, commencing at 8:52 a.m.

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dispositive factor in admissions?
A.

It prevents any single characteristic from

being dispositive.

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Q.

Do you know --

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A.

They are all seen in a broad context.

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Q.

Do you know how -- do you know that -- what

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do you know about the origin of Harvard's holistic

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admissions process?

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A.

I know it's been around for a long time.

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Q.

Are you familiar with the work of Jerome

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Karabel?

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

Are you familiar with his book The Chosen?

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A.

I am.

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Q.

Are you -- are you generally aware that the

I have not read it.

I know of it.

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holistic admissions process was used for a time in

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the 20th century to discriminate against Jewish

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applicants?

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MS. ELLSWORTH:

Objection.

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object to the entire line of

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questioning.

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MR. STRAWBRIDGE:

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The objection's

noted.
Q.

Do you know whether that's true?

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A.

I'm a historian.

I would not rely on the

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interpretation of a single historian unchallenged.

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have not done that historical work myself, and

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therefore I would not presume to make judgment about

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its accuracy.

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Q.

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Do you know whether Harvard has ever

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acknowledged that its holistic admissions process was

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used to discriminate against Jewish applicants in the

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early 20th century?

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MS. ELLSWORTH:

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A.

I do not know.

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Q.

Okay.

Objection.

Do you know whether prior Harvard

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presidents have acknowledged that the use of a

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holistic admissions process was inappropriate with

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respect to Jewish applicants during the 20th century?

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MS. ELLSWORTH:

Objection.

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A.

I do not know.

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Q.

Do you agree that it would be inappropriate

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to use a holistic admissions process to discriminate

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against Jewish applicants, for example?

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MS. ELLSWORTH:
A.

Objection.

I believe that the holistic admissions

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process is one that, by looking at the whole student

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and the variety of dimensions that make up a class,

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is the best way to give full consideration to

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students of all backgrounds.

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Q.

process could be abused?

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Is it possible that a holistic admissions

MS. ELLSWORTH:
A.

Objection.

You're asking me to comment on abstractions

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and hypothetical situations.

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world of hypotheticals.

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has happened, what is happening.

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Q.

I don't live in the

I live in the world of what

Well, but you don't know what happened with

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respect to the holistic admissions process of Jewish

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applicants in the 20th century?

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MS. ELLSWORTH:
A.

Objection.

I would argue that the entire context in the

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1920s is so different from our own time, it would be

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very -- you'd have to be very careful in making

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direct comparisons between how admissions worked and

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how Harvard worked and drawing a line of analogy

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between those two times.

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were to make such an argument, I would want to dig

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deeply into the entire history and operation.

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don't believe that has been done.

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want to draw conclusions from it.

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Q.

I'd want to dig in -- if I

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And so I don't

To your knowledge, Harvard has never dug into

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the history of how Jewish applicants were treated in

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the 20th century?

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A.

Not to my knowledge.

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MS. ELLSWORTH:

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Q.

I'm sorry.

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A.

Not to my knowledge.

Objection.

Can you just repeat your answer?
I would say not to my

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knowledge with the kind of depth and rigor that I

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would want to see.

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Q.

Do you think Harvard should look into that?

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MS. ELLSWORTH:
A.

Objection.

I'd be perfectly happy to have Harvard look

into it.
Q.

Has anyone ever asked Harvard to look into

that in your time as president?
A.

I have -- they have not asked me, to my

recollection.
Q.

Do you think it's important for Harvard to

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understand its history and how it treated certain

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groups?

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A.

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I do think -MS. ELLSWORTH:

A.

Objection.

I do think it's important for Harvard to

understand its history.
Q.

Is that a commitment that should come from

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COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS

SUFFOLK, SS.

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I, JAMES A. SCALLY, RMR, CRR, a
Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public duly
commissioned and qualified in and for the
Commonwealth of Massachusetts, do hereby certify that
there came before me on the 10th day of March, 2017,
at 8:52 a.m., the person hereinbefore named,
CATHERINE DREW GILPIN FAUST, who provided
satisfactory evidence of identification as prescribed
by Executive Order 455 (03-13) issued by the Governor
of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, was by me duly
sworn to testify to the truth and nothing but the
truth of her knowledge concerning the matters in
controversy in this cause; that she was thereupon
examined upon her oath, and her examination reduced
to typewriting under my direction; and that this is a
true record of the testimony given by the witness to
the best of my ability.
I further certify that I am neither
attorney or counsel for, nor related to or employed
by, any of the parties to the action in which this
deposition is taken, and further, that I am not a
relative or employee of any attorney or counsel
employed by the parties hereto or financially
interested in the action.

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My Commission Expires:

April 8, 2022

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_________________________
James A. Scally, RMR, CRR
CSR/Notary Public