Timebase Pty Ltd v. Thomson Corporation, The

Filing 247

Declaration of Jenna J. Bayer in Support of 246 Memorandum in Support of Motion filed by Timebase Pty Ltd. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit(s) A - Part 1, # 2 Exhibit(s) A - Part 2, # 3 Exhibit(s) B, # 4 Exhibit(s) C, # 5 Exhibit(s) D - Part 1, # 6 Exhibit(s) D - Part 2, # 7 Placeholder for Exhibit E, # 8 Exhibit(s) F, # 9 Exhibit(s) G, # 10 Exhibit(s) H, # 11 Exhibit(s) I, # 12 Exhibit(s) J, # 13 Exhibit(s) K, # 14 Exhibit(s) L, # 15 Appendix A, # 16 Appendix B, # 17 Appendix C, # 18 Appendix D - Part 1, # 19 Appendix D - Part 2, # 20 Appendix D - Part 3, # 21 Appendix E - Part 1, # 22 Appendix E - Part 2, # 23 Appendix F - Part 1, # 24 Appendix F - Part 2, # 25 Appendix F - Part 3, # 26 Appendix F - Part 4, # 27 Appendix F - Part 5, # 28 Appendix F - Part 6, # 29 Appendix F - Part 7, # 30 Appendix F - Part 8, # 31 Appendix F - Part 9, # 32 Appendix F - Part 10, # 33 Appendix F - Part 11, # 34 Appendix F - Part 12, # 35 Appendix F - Part 13, # 36 Appendix F - Part 14, # 37 Appendix F - Part 15, # 38 Appendix F - Part 16, # 39 Appendix G - Part 1, # 40 Appendix G - Part 2)(Hosteny, Joseph)

Download PDF
Exhibit K (Selected Pages of Deposition of Timothy Arnold‐ Moore, with Deposition Exhibits 1 and 8) to TimeBase’s Memorandum in Support of Its Motion for Summary Judgment of No Invalidity TIMOTHY ARNOLD-MOORE, Ph.D. Timebase v. Thompson Corporation 6/22/2010 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA ---------------------------------- ) TIMEBASE PTY LTD., ) Plaintiff, v. ) File Number ) 07-CV-1687 THE THOMSON CORPORATION, WEST ) PUBLISHING CORPORATION, AND WEST ) SERVICES, INC., ) Defendants. ) ---------------------------------- ) Washington, D.C. Tuesday, June 22, 2010 Videotaped Deposition of: TIMOTHY J. ARNOLD-MOORE, Ph.D., a witness called in the above-entitled action, before BESS A. AVERY, RMR, CLR, a notary public in and for the District of Columbia, taken at Morgan, Lewis, & Bockius, 1111 Pennsylvania Avenue, Northwest, Washington, D.C., commencing at 9:35 a.m., when were present: Olender Reporting, Inc. Washington, D.C. (888) 445-3376 Baltimore, MD WORLDWIDE Florida TIMOTHY ARNOLD-MOORE, Ph.D. Timebase v. Thompson Corporation 6/22/2010 122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 124 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 1 MR. HOSTENY: Let's take a break. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Are we concluded? 3 MR. LITSEY: No. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the 5 record at 12:19 p.m. 6 (A luncheon recess was taken.) 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the 8 beginning of Videotape Number 4 in the deposition of 9 Dr. Timothy J. Arnold-Moore. The time is 13:10 10 hours. 11 EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 12 BY MR. HOSTENY: 13 Q Dr. Arnold-Moore, am I correct that when 14 you use the word "consolidation" you are referring 15 to an act with one or more amendments applied to it? 16 A That's correct, yes. 17 Q Okay. And that would be consistent, I 18 think, with if you take a look at your Exhibit 19 Number 3, page Roman numeral 5. 20 A Yes. 21 Q Okay. So the consolidation will represent 22 in a broader sense of any legislative document. As I explained before, in Australian all the distinction between regulations and primary legislation or acts of parliment or acts of the legislature is not as stark as it is here in the United States, the separation of powers is not as clear-cut. So what I say about acts typically applies to regulations in those jurisdictions. But typically by act I mean an act of parliament. Q Okay. Something passed by a legislative body? A Something passed by a legislative body, exactly. Q Okay. And you used a term in your direct examination to refer to the equivalent of regulations. I don't recall what it was. A Well, there are a number of terms: Subsidiary legislation or subordinate legislation, statutory rules is another, another phrase I think that's used in some of the papers. Q Okay. In those instances would those also be things enacted or passed by a legislative body? 123 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 another version of an act with all of the intervening amendments applied? A That's correct, yes. Q Do you sometimes call the change a delta? A I certainly in some of my papers talk about the difference between two documents as being a delta, yes. Q Okay. Would the delta represent the actual change of text whether it's an addition or a deletion? A That's correct, yes. Q So a delta would be, for example, if it were a deletion, it would be some lined out text or some text to be removed? A That's usually how it's represented, yes. Q And if it were an addition then you would have some sort of insertion to be made to what the section was? A That's correct, yes. Q When you say "act" what do you mean? A An act of parliment, typically. In some of my papers when I use the term "act" I'm using it 125 MR. LITSEY: Objection, lacks foundation. 1 A They are typically not actually passed by 2 3 a legislative body but made under a power granted by 4 an act so they are made by an executive branch, 5 ministry or department, and under the authority of 6 one or more acts of parliament. 7 BY MR. HOSTENY: 8 Q Okay. If you would take a look at 9 Exhibit 1 for a moment, please. And I noted down at 10 the bottom right, well, there's a URL reference down 11 at the bottom right. Do you see that? A Yes. 12 13 14 15 Q Do you also see the date down at the bottom right, June 22, 2010? A Yes, I do. 16 17 18 Q Do you know where this document comes from? A I believe it's from a web page. 19 20 21 22 Q Do you know who printed it? A No, I don't actually. Q Do you know when it was printed? A I presume, from that date, on June 22, 32 (Pages 122 to 125) Olender Reporting, Inc. Washington, D.C. (888) 445-3376 Baltimore, MD WORLDWIDE Florida TIMOTHY ARNOLD-MOORE, Ph.D. Timebase v. Thompson Corporation 126 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2010, but I don't know. Q Okay. You mentioned that this was a, reflected a presentation that you participated in in September of 1996 as reflected at the third page of the document? A Yes, that's correct. Q Okay. Were you able to find a paper copy of the presentation as given on September 25, 1996? A No, I was not. Q You mentioned that there was a booth at this same event? A That's correct, yes. Q Were you able to find any record of the visitors to the booth? A I didn't maintain a record of visitors to the booth, no. Q Do you know if there is any record of persons to whom -- let me back up a bit. I think you mentioned a one-page handout? A My memory is that there was a one-page handout. Q Were you able to find that one-page 128 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Tasmania? A As it was originally created, yes. Q And a single jurisdiction, that jurisdiction being Tasmania? A That's correct, yes. Q And you could, as part of EnAct, explore how legislation varied over time? A That's correct, yes. Q Okay. Give me a minute here while I thumb. A Sure. Q If I understand -- you want to flip to Exhibit 8. Exhibit 8 is a presentation given at some time in 1999 concerning EnAct? A That's correct, yes. Q And EnAct came online in 1998 or 1997? A I believe -MR. ROTH: Objection. A I believe it was 1997. BY MR. HOSTENY: Q Okay. Let me direct your attention to -- 127 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 handout? A No, I don't believe we kept a copy of that handout. Q And do you recall if there was any record of persons to whom the handout was provided? A It was sitting on the table, so anybody could have taken a copy without us taking a record of who had. Q Okay. A I could provide -- I could provide a partial list of people who I know visited the booth, but it would be from my own memory. I don't believe there's any written record. There may be a written record of attendees to the conference itself that Allette Systems had that ran the conference. Allette Systems is a company based in Sidney that ran this particular conference. Q Okay. I want to ask you a few questions about EnAct. EnAct dealt with legislation. Correct? A That's correct, yes. Q And in particular the legislation of 6/22/2010 129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A Actually, by online you mean in production in the Tasmanian Government, or do you mean the website was available to the public? Q Well, let's split it up. According to -take a look, if you would, at Exhibit Number 15, the Legislative System Project Newsletter. A Yes. Q It says that the implementation of the EnAct legislation system went, "into the office of Parliamentary Counsel on 1 December 1997." You see the upper left paragraph under the production? A Yes, mm-hmm. Q So was it available as of December 1, 1997? A It went into production on the first of December 1997 in the Office of Parliamentary Counsel. They were using the system in system testing well before that. Q Okay. How long before, do you know? A At least six months and possibly up to a year. 33 (Pages 126 to 129) Olender Reporting, Inc. Washington, D.C. (888) 445-3376 Baltimore, MD WORLDWIDE Florida TIMOTHY ARNOLD-MOORE, Ph.D. Timebase v. Thompson Corporation 130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q Take a look back at Exhibit Number 8, if you would, the second page. A Second page, yes. Q Look at the abstract there. A Mm-hmm. Q See where it says, I'm not quoting, but it says the point-in-time capability allows users to search and browse, et cetera, as it was at any time since 1 February 1997? A Mm-hmm. Q Okay. So if I looked at it at 1 February, 1997, I would not be able to access any legislation prior to that date, would I? MR. LITSEY: Objection, lack of foundation. A The -- that particular date was chosen as a date before which Tasmania would not prepare all the versions of the document, but, in fact, if you search for legislation before that date, there was some legislation that was actually in force, at earlier dates of the complete collection. BY MR. HOSTENY: 132 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q That's an example of a, that Figure 1 is an example of a paper Markup of -- let me back up. That Figure 1 is an example of a paper Markup to achieve a consolidation? A That's correct, yes. Q Okay. A In fact, I think that particular image was actually scanned from one of the paper documents that was being used in the Tasmanian Drafting Office before the EnAct system went live. Q Okay. In any of the exhibits that you've seen today is there any discussion of examining or -- let me rephrase that. Is there any discussion of studying legislation in variations other than time, if you follow what I'm saying? MR. LITSEY: Object as vague and lacks foundation. A Well, I think I talk about other aspects of legislation in some of those papers; for instance, the regular structure, the fact that it involves cross-reference. I made quite a tight 131 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q When was EnAct online, available to any user who wished to consult it? MR. ROTH: Objection. MR. LITSEY: Objection, lacks foundation, vague. BY MR. HOSTENY: Q Let's back up. Was it ever online? MR. ROTH: Object. A There was a website that was built from the EnAct system that was made available in 1998 that was available -- which made Tasmanian legislation and the contents of the EnAct database available to the public in 1998, but it depends what you mean by "online." BY MR. HOSTENY: Q I mean available to anyone who wished to determine the content of Tasmanian legislation electronically? A As a website it was available in 1998. Q Okay. Page -- look at Figure 1, if you would. It's several pages into Exhibit number 8. A Mm-hmm. 6/22/2010 133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 reference of cross-reference links. So time is one of the aspects that's relevant, but in some of the papers I discuss other aspects of legislation that make it different from other document types. BY MR. HOSTENY: Q Okay. Let me find that. I want to ask you about that figure, while I'm at it. Give me a moment. What I'm looking for is the document that had the figures in it that you were describing to Mr. Litsey. A The screenshots? Q Yes, that's it. A That would be Exhibit 8. Q Is that 8? Okay. Let's go back to that one. I think you are probably right. A Is it the AustLII paper? No, it was the digital libraries paper. 7, my mistake. Q Seven. Okay. By the way, what is Themis? A The EnAct system was originally called Themis while we were working on it as a project. There were some trademark issues with using that name so the name was switched to EnAct. 34 (Pages 130 to 133) Olender Reporting, Inc. Washington, D.C. (888) 445-3376 Baltimore, MD WORLDWIDE Florida TIMOTHY ARNOLD-MOORE, Ph.D. Timebase v. Thompson Corporation 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A Of Themis, yes. It then became EnAct. Q When I say it's new, did you ever become aware of any system that was available prior to Themis that did that? MR. LITSEY: Object as lacking foundation. A The prior search which is a research system, I think from Carnegie Mellon, I couldn't be sure, does some similar things. It doesn't necessarily -- it's not focused on SGML but it does break up hypertext documents into nodes which roughly correspond with elements in an SGML document. So there was some -- there were some systems that did actually store documents in pieces and had hypertext links between them before EnAct. So would I say it was new in the sense that nobody had ever done it before, probably exactly the way we did it, no, but certainly the concept of breaking a document up to store it in a hypertext system, that wasn't novel. BY MR. HOSTENY: Q Okay. How many years did you and your 144 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q What's the difference between a delta and a chained delta? A Well, version control systems at the time use the concept of delta to describe an encoding of a description of the changes between two versions of a document. So a delta was, effectively, something that you could apply to one document to get the next version. And the idea of chain deltas is that, well, if there's multiple versions between the version you are interested in and the version that you had, you would apply a chain of those deltas to get the final version you're interested in. Or, in fact, typically, in versions for old systems, it was the other way around, you kept the most recent version and chained back to the old versions. Q Why are you mentioning deltas and chained deltas in here? A Because that was the language that was being used by the Version Control Systems at the time, and there were some parallels between Version Control Systems and what we were trying to achieve 143 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 colleague spend working on Themis and EnAct? A I believe the project started in, it was either late '94 or early '95. We started -- we were awarded the tender. The final system was delivered in December, I think, first of December '97, one of the exhibits said that was when the system went live. Complete versions of it had been delivered before that but there was system testing and fixes and so on before that, so probably a period of two years, roughly. Q Was it your belief based on your work on Themis to the effect that there was not an available system that could accomplish the same thing that Themis could accomplish? A There certainly wasn't an off-the-shelf solution that could do all the things that Themis or EnAct could do. Q Yeah. Okay. Now, you mentioned at page 179 the use of delta operations. A Yeah. Q And chained delta operations. A Mm-hmm. 6/22/2010 145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 with EnAct. Q Did you use what you would call an inverted file index in Themis? A Yes, the Structured Information Manager, as it was called then, or TeraText database at the moment, it uses an inverted file index to index all the words that appear in a record that's indexed. Q Did Themis use an inverted file index? A It did. It made use of that. Q Does EnAct still use an invert -A It still does, yes. Q Is an inverted file index an index of individual words appearing in a document? A That's correct, yes. Q And SIM, that's the Structured Information Manager? A Yes. Q Did that become TeraText? A That's correct, yes. Q And TeraText was a product of InQuirion, if I pronounced that correctly? A Yeah, well, the Structured Information 37 (Pages 142 to 145) Olender Reporting, Inc. Washington, D.C. (888) 445-3376 Baltimore, MD WORLDWIDE Florida

Disclaimer: Justia Dockets & Filings provides public litigation records from the federal appellate and district courts. These filings and docket sheets should not be considered findings of fact or liability, nor do they necessarily reflect the view of Justia.

Why Is My Information Online?