Polaris IP, LLC v. Google Inc. et al

Filing 275

RESPONSE to 253 Claim Construction Brief by AOL, LLC., America Online, Inc., Google Inc., Yahoo!, Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Affidavit of Todd Kennedy, # 2 Exhibit 1, # 3 Exhibit 2, # 4 Exhibit 3, # 5 Exhibit 4, # 6 Exhibit 5, part 1, # 7 Exhibit 5, part 2, # 8 Exhibit 5, part 3, # 9 Exhibit 5, part 4, # 10 Exhibit 6, # 11 Exhibit 7, # 12 Exhibit 8, part 1, # 13 Exhibit 8, part 2, # 14 Exhibit 9, # 15 Exhibit 10)(Perlson, David)

Polaris IP, LLC v. Google Inc. et al

Doc. 275 Att. 4

EX HIBIT 3

Dockets.Justia.com

Page 1
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS MARSHALL DIVISION 2:07-CV-371--CE

BRIGHT RESPONSE, L.L.C.,

VS.

VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RICHARD GREGSON

GOGGLE, INC., et al.

Defendants. :

T R A N S C R I P T of the stenographic notes of LISA FORLANO, CCR, CRR, RMR, Certified LiveNote,Reporter and Notary Public, taken at the offices of Veritext Pennsylvania, 1801 Market Street, 18th Floor, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19103, on Friday, July 10, 2009, commencing at 9:15 a.m.

Job No.. 206497

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case -based search to obtain the best case match.

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Certainly it's an interactive message based with the two together.
Q Okay, any other differences?

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A

Consequently, the system would not

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provide satisfactory results if the input to, the system was an electronic message and no user interaction was provided.
Q And so this seems like it's getting to

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the interactive, not the interactive message we talked about before?

A

Right.

It would be the way to

distinguish this piece of prior art from it.
Q When you receive a message in the

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system claimed in the '947 patent, how do you know up front whether it's interactive or not interactive? MR. RAFILSON: THE WITNESS: Objection to form. The way S ---- the way I

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understood this would be that there's no interaction going back and forth. It receives the message and it processes it without further input. BY MR. WHITE:

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Q

So when you get a message, though, if

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BY MR. WHITE Q Honestly, that's what I'm struggling

with, too, is how do you define a non-interactive
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message from an interactive message? What about the message makes it not interactive? I understand the system may not ask for follow up, but I'm trying to understand in a message, when you're looking at a collection of data, how do you say this collection of data is an interactive message or it's a non-interactive message? me on that? A I'm not sure what would be within -- if Does that -- do you follow

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it's been addressed in this spec or.trying to keep it broad or more broadly than the general concept of you're going to get it all at once in one direction from the sender to the system as opposed to having it come in pieces and probably require even something from the system going back to get additional information in some fashion.

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Q

Okay, so that's the best you can do

with the non-interactive message?
A Q Sitting here today, yes. Okay. Are you familiar with the Yahoo web page, home page search engine?

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A

I've been to the Yahoo web page, yes.

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Q

How about the Google web page, do you

ever use Google? A I've used Google. When you type in a search string which

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Q.

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could be even just a couple of characters, is that a non-interactive message?
MR. RAFILSON: Objection, form.

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THE WITNESS: I'd have -- I don't have an opinion as to -- I could see arguments either way, yeah. BY MR. WHITE: Q What are the arguments against it not

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being an interactive message? MR. RAFILSON: THE WITNESS: Objection, form.,_ It depends on hoer --

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again, tell me -- give me the full definition' of what are all those elements that I talked about that are defined what that message is as per the spec and the claims. Does it have specific sender and receiver and that kind of stuff and is that packaged up within the html packet which is sent from the web page to, you know, with the IP addresses and the like. I don't know if that would fit. You've got to

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give me what is the legal definition as interpreted in the claims and all the file history and all the stuff. BY MR. WHITE:

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Q

And that's where we're hoping you can

help us out because you prosecuted it.
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A

I -- I don't have -- you know, I -- the

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embodiment that's described -- the exemplary embodiment is an e-mail. Whether or not the fact

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that it was -- the claim says message thinking something broader than that I would certainly as a prosecuting attorney would try to say yes, it's something broader. We were never c^lallenged, as I

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recall, on this as to what the parameters of that would be, as to whethe.r,or not a.search query packaged inside in each e-mail packet sent qualifies as a message.

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Q A

Okay.

And that's what we were hoping.

That's a legal definition that is for

this case to decide, not for me. Q other?
A Q I will not, no. You understand in the Yahoo system and

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Okay.

So you can't say one way or the

in the Google system, after you type a search query,

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you get a whole possible selection of results that the user has to go on and select to actually get to an end.page, correct?

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A

Yeah, you get a web page back with a

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bunch of links to other things. Q That the user then can click on and

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select to sort of get to the end page, right?
A Q Right. Is that interaction, does that take it

out of the context of a non-interactive message? MR. RAFILSON: THE WITNESS: Objection, form. It depends on whether the

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claim is trying -- saying the response is the ultimate end page or whether it is the search results is-.what is meant by t,-ie re,sponse,, you know, that the system as this tends to-receive something and then sends something back. The response, the response is the search results, you know. You can clearly argue that that set

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of search results is the response. BY MR. WHITE: Q Do you know whether or not that's

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predetermined as the claim requires, Claim 26? MR. RAFILSON: THE WITNESS: Objection, form. No, I don't.

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BY MR. WHITE:

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Q

And just one last question on this

line, can you give us the sort of parameters as to what a non-interactive message is based upon everything that we've talked about? Sort of give us those parameters, a non-interactive message has these attributes, these qualities,.this is what it means?
MR. RAFILSON: Objection, form. No. I need to stop, so I'm

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s

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THE WITNESS: MR. WHITE:

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going to have no further questions for you at this point. I don't know if David has -I just have a couple. Do you want to just go off

MR. PERLSON: MR. WHITE:

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the record real quick and we'll switch.. VIDEO OPERATOR: We're going off the

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record. The time is 11:31 a.m. (Brief recess.)
VIDEO OPERATOR: The time is 11:36 a.m.

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We're going back on the record. BY MR. PERLSON:

Q

Mr. Gregson, my name is David Perlson.

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I'm attorney for Google and AOL in this case.
^^P^^N wn6l.:iddrx^H:.hcf,K.r.^ nonon4d^.^A.wpm.A'"Ci^^tata",,.=.su,.'a...u.auatw_..3

nmra a eG S:a^.wnmmxo . ^.mav.« ^Mofi

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prosecution history for the '947 patent and go to BR625, please.

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A

Okay. And if you look to the middle of the

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page, it refers to the term case base has a meaning that is well-defined in the art and Outlook does not
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have any features that fall within such meaning and then it goes on to say a case-based reasoning system is described in the present specification as one which compares an incoming set of facts (a problem with a stored set.of exemplar cases) and -- now,. you would agree that that's the same language we just read in the -A Q Yes. Let me finish. In the 1947 patent in

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column 2, right? A Yes, there's more -- I mean I don't

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want ro be picky, but there's more in here on the tri-gram character matching and whatever, but yes, there's a problem and an exemplar is making.the comparison.

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Q

Right, so during the prosecution in

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trying to explain what case-based reasoning was, the applicants pointed back to this provision in the specification to provide a definition of what it

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was, right?
A Page -MR. RAFILSON: THE WITNESS: Objection to form. I mean there's a cite

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here, which is to the one that's in here. I'm assuming it's the same -- page 3, line 19 to 20. BY MR. PERLSON:

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Q

Actually, why don't you look -- if you

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look at BR551, which is in the same thing. A Q
A to that.

Okay. It's actually the application.
It is the same . Okay, they're pointing

Q A

Right.

And so you're --

In this amendment, they are pointing to

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that definition, yeah.
Q reasoning. A Right. Yes? Yes. As a definition for case-based

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Q

All right.
MR. PERLSON:

And then -I have no further

questions. VIDEO OPERATOR: any? Are you going to ask

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CERTIFICATION

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I.
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LISA FORLANO, a Certified Realtime

Reporter, Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public, do hereby certify that I reported the deposition in the above-captioned matter, that the said witness was duly sworn by me; that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the stenographic notes of testimony taken by me in the above-captioned matters. I further certify that I am not an

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attorney or counsel for any of the parties, not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor financially interested in the action.,

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LISA FORLANO, CCR, CRR, RMR

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DATED:

July 22, 2009

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