Eolas Technologies Incorporated v. Adobe Systems Incorporated et al

Filing 1341

PLEASE IGNORE. FILED IN ERROR. CORRECTED DOCUMENT REFILED AT DE 1342. PLEASE IGNORE. TRIAL BRIEF DEFENDANTS' OFFER OF PROOF REGARDING TIME LIMITATION FOR INVALIDITY TRIAL by Adobe Systems Incorporated, Amazon.com Inc., CDW Corporation, Google Inc., J.C. Penney Corporation, Inc., Staples, Inc., The Go Daddy Group, Inc., Yahoo! Inc., YouTube, LLC. (Attachments: # 1 Declaration of Jennifer H. Doan, # 2 Declaration of Andrew L. Perito, # 3 Exhibit Exhibit A, # 4 Exhibit Exhibit B, # 5 Exhibit Exhibit C, # 6 Exhibit Exhibit D, # 7 Exhibit Exhibit E, # 8 Exhibit Exhibit F, # 9 Exhibit Exhibit G, # 10 Exhibit Exhibit H, # 11 Exhibit Exhibit I, # 12 Exhibit Exhibit J, # 13 Exhibit Exhibit K, # 14 Exhibit Exhibit L)(Doan, Jennifer) Modified on 2/9/2012 (leh, ).

EXHIBIT J

McRae_Chris

McRae, Christopher (Vol. 01) - 09/19/2011

1 CLIP (RUNNING 00:11:03.662)

McRae_Defendants
CM01

34 SEGMENTS (RUNNING 00:11:03.662)

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Q.

Good morning, Mr. McRae.

We meet off the

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A.

Have you ever been deposed before?
No.

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Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Do you recognize what's been
marked as Exhibit 26?
A.
Yes.
Q.
What is it?
A.
It seems to be an e-mail from me to David
Martin.
Q.
From September 8th, 1993?
A.
Yes. That's what it says.
Q.
You state in this message, "I know I have
seen this page before, but I don't know if you have.
At any rate, take a look at" -- and it provides a URL.
Then it continues, "In particular, see the MediaView
notes."
Does this refresh your recollection about
ever looking at the MediaView system?

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THE DEPONENT: I don't recall ever seeing the
MediaView system. Apparently, I did.

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Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Do you have any reason -- do
you know why you would have told Mr. Martin to go look
at the MediaView system?

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THE DEPONENT: I saw it as part of my job.
Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Why was it part of your job?
A.
I -- we were crafting information systems for
the library, and I often found things that I thought
were of interest and shared them with David or others.
Q.
And why would MediaView have been of
interest?
A.
Well, I can only respond from what I have
seen today, that it was an information system, and
that's why it would have been of interest.
Q.
It would have been of interest for particular
projects you were working at at UCSF?
A.
I say, "In particular." Apparently, so.

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Q.
And so you would have come across this link
at least by September 8th, 1993, but in this message
you say that you have seen this page before.
A.
Yes.
page 1

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Q.
Do you know how far before?
A.
I have no way of knowing when it was
published, but I did scan through the CERN Website when
I first discovered the WWW software.
Q.
And what was the purpose of scanning through
the CERN Website?
A.
To educate myself and discover whether
there's anything useful.

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Q.
Did you attend the WorldWideWeb Wizards
Workshop in July in Cambridge in 1993?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Did you see the Viola system at that
conference?
A.
Yes, I think.

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Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Okay. What is your
understanding of the Viola system?
A.
It's a Web browser.
Q.
And what did it do?
A.
It displayed Web pages.
Q.
What kind of Web pages?
A.
HTML Web pages.

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Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Was it interesting to you to
see the Viola system?
A.
Yes.
Q.
What was interesting about it?
A.
I -- let me correct myself, actually. I'm
not sure that I actually saw a demo. I did get
explanations or a description of what it does from Pei
Wei.
Q.
Anyone else?
A.
Possibly.
Q.
Who else would have been there that could
have described it to you?
A.
Scott Silvi.
Q.
Anyone else?
A.
Yes. I'm sure others were aware of it, and I
spoke to quite a few people.
Q.
Did you meet Dale Dougherty there?
A.
Yes.

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Q.
Okay. Was he also explaining the Viola
system?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
Were there a lot of people getting
explanations about the Viola system while you were
standing around it?

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THE DEPONENT: That was the purpose of the
conference.
Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) To demonstrate Viola?
A.
Demonstrate WorldWideWeb tools or discuss
WorldWideWeb-related technologies, including Viola.
Q.
Did you get a technical description of how
Viola operated at the conference?

page 2

McRae_Chris
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THE DEPONENT:
discussions.

There were technical

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Q.
Had you used Mosaic at the time you attended
the conference?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Was there anything different about Mosaic
versus Viola?

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THE DEPONENT: Yes. There are differences.
Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Like what?
A.
I believe Viola had a broader range of image
types that it supported as inlined embedded images.
Q.
What kind of image types?
A.
At that time I believe Mosaic still only
displayed GIF format images inline, whereas Viola had a
broader range of image types that it understood or
supported.

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Q.
Viola?

Do you recall a drawing widget or object with

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THE DEPONENT: Yes.
Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) What did that do?
A.
Let you scribble.
Q.
What do you mean, it let you scribble?
A.
Pick a pen, pick a color. Drag your mouse
across the screen and you see a line where you dragged
the mouse pointer.
Q.
Was it inline with the Web page that you were
viewing?

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THE DEPONENT: It was in the browser window.
Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) It wasn't in a separate
window apart from the browser window?

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Q.
widget?
A.
saw it.

THE DEPONENT: No, I don't think so.
(By Mr. Wolff) Did you ever use the drawing
I don't recall whether I used it myself.

I

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CONFIDENTIAL

Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Do you know whether before
March -- sorry -- before April of 1993 the community
had discussed embedding video in Web pages?
A.
Yes, I do know -Q.
And what -A.
-- that it did.
Q.
And why was that?
A.
Well, I think there's more than one example,
but the README file for XMosaic, I think released in
March, specifically mentions their intention to do
that.

page 3

McRae_Chris
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Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) So what was exactly that idea
that you communicated to Mr. Doyle?
A.
The idea of using external application -using the browser as a front end for external
applications with bidirectional communication between
the two programs.
Q.
And you didn't think that that's disclosed in
any of the prior discussions about XMosaic and
incorporating Xv and Ghostscript functionality?
A.
On the contrary, actually. I -- I took
inspiration from these discussions. And, you know, I
mentioned earlier that I was skeptical of the patent or
the claim of patentability in that first conversation
with Mike Doyle because I knew where -- you know, where
I was coming from.
But at the same time I felt that I had, you
know, a unique twist that I had put on it. But I
didn't -- I guess maybe I was naive. I didn't believe
that was patentable, and honestly I have been
surprised, you know, at the history.

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Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) Well, you just testified that
you were surprised that Mr. Doyle thought it was
patentable and you expressed your skepticism about
that, right?
A.
That's right.
Q.
And what was it that you told him why it
wasn't patentable?

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THE DEPONENT: At the time, I think I said
there was prior art.
Q.
(By Mr. Wolff) And what prior art would that
be?
A.
I was thinking of -- well the X Window
system, the ideal Window manager, which is essentially
the role that the browser takes in the invention, and
the description of the EMBED tag and the other
discussions here.
Q.
The discussions about Xv?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And discussions about embedding video?

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THE DEPONENT:

Yes.

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Q.
And you were skeptical back in 1993 when
Mr. Doyle told you that he thought that this was
patentable.
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you were skeptical because you had
basically built on the ideas of others who had done
similar things or proposed similar ideas.
A.
I was skeptical --

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CONFIDENTIAL

THE DEPONENT:
what was novel.

-- because I didn't understand

page 4

McRae_Chris
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Q.
And, Mr. McRae, you worked at the University
of California San Francisco; is that correct?
A.
Yes, I did.
Q.
And you were there from February 1993 to
December of 1993; is that correct?
A.
Yes, it is.

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Q.
(By Mr. Budwin) And Mr. Wolff also asked you
questions about Viola and a drawing widget.
Do you recall that?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Needless to say, you don't recall Mr. Wei or
anyone else demonstrating Viola with a drawing widget
at the Wizards Conference in July of 1993, do you?
A.
Actually, I do -- I believe that is what I
saw, is that part of the demo or that's what I became
aware of. I saw that -- Viola do that.

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Q.
(By Mr. Budwin) Sitting here today, you have
no specific recollection of discussing Viola with
anybody in your group at UCSF before you left UCSF in
December of 1993, right?

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THE DEPONENT: On the contrary, I know that I
did discuss Viola with them.
Q.
(By Mr. Budwin) Okay. Who did you talk
about it with?
A.
I'm not sure about Mike Doyle, but certainly
David Martin, Cheong Ang and Marc Solomon.

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Q.
And do you have a specific recollection of
telling Martin, Ang, or anyone else at UCSF, about the
drawing area widget in Viola?
A.
I believe I -- I have recollection of telling
David Martin about -- about that.

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Q.
Was it before or after you left UCSF?
A.
During my time at UCSF I would have told him.
Q.
What specifically did you tell him?
A.
"Hey, Viola can do this."
Q.
Well, did you tell him they could do it in
the browser? outside the browser?
A.
It would have been in the browser.
Q.
And so you remember specifically having this
discussion with David Martin.
A.
Yes.

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Q.
While you were at UCSF, do you recall using
the drawing area widget in Viola?
A.
Yes.

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Q.
Now, Mr. Budwin also asked you questions
about what you actually saw when you were at the
Wizards or the Web Conference, for example, in
Cambridge.
page 5

McRae_Chris
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A.
Q.

Do you recall that?
In July 1993, yes.
Correct.
And do you -- you did attend the conference,

correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And you do recall that Viola was shown at the
conference, correct?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And was it -- was Viola a secret at the
conference?
A.
No.

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CONFIDENTIAL

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