Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 1312

Declaration of Mark Tung in Support of 1269 ORDER by Judge Lucy H. Kohi> filed bySamsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC(a Delaware limited liability company). (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 3, # 2 Exhibit 4, # 3 Exhibit 5, # 4 Exhibit 6, # 5 Exhibit 7, # 6 Exhibit 8, # 7 Exhibit 9, # 8 Exhibit 11, # 9 Exhibit 12, # 10 Exhibit 13, # 11 Exhibit 14, # 12 Exhibit 15)(Related document(s) 1296 ) (Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 7/24/2012) Modified on 7/25/2012 (fff, COURT STAFF).

EXHIBIT 9
FILED UNDER SEAL

Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION

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APPLE INC., a California
corporation,

6

Plaintiff,
7

vs.

CASE NO.

11-cv-01846-LHK

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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., a Korean business
entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS
AMERICA,INC., a New York
corporation; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA,
LLC, a Delaware limited
liability company,
Defendants.
____________________________/

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H I G H L Y
C O N F I D E N T I A L
A T T O R N E Y S' E Y E S O N L Y

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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY JOHNSON, Ph.D.
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA
THURSDAY, April 26, 2012

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23
24
25

BY: ANDREA M. IGNACIO HOWARD, CSR, RPR, CCRR, CLR
CSR LICENSE NO. 9830
JOB NO. 49051
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MR. TUNG:

Mark Tung from Quinn Emanuel for

Samsung, and with me is Aileen Kim.

09:16
09:16

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4

JEFFREY JOHNSON,

5

having been sworn as a witness

6

by the Certified Shorthand Reporter,

7

testified as follows:

8
9

EXAMINATION BY MR. AHN

10

MR. AHN:

11

THE WITNESS:

12

MR. AHN:

09:17

Good morning, Dr. Johnson.

09:17

Good morning.

09:17

We've already met off the record,

09:17

13

but I just want to introduce myself again.

14

Matthew Ahn.

15

representing Apple in this action.

16

ask you a few questions -- actually, probably more

09:17

17

than a few questions -- about the expert report that

09:17

18

you submitted for this case.

09:17

19
20

Q

My name is

09:17

I'm an attorney for Morrison & Foerster,

09:17

I'm just going to

09:17

I believe you were previously deposed in this

09:17

action approximately eight months ago; is that right?

09:17

21

A

In October.

22

Q

In October.

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A

Uh-huh.

09:17

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Q

Okay.

09:17

25

apply.

09:17
About six months ago?

09:17

So the same basic rules are going to

I'm going to ask you some questions.

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MR. AHN:

Q.

Did you discuss the contacts

10:33

2

application for any specific device or just in

10:33

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general?

10:33

4

A

Just in general.

10:33

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Q

Did you think it was necessary to discuss it

10:33

6

in the context of specific devices?

7

MR. TUNG:

8

THE WITNESS:

9
10

10:33

Objection; vague.

10:34

There were some questions about

10:34

what versions of the Android software corresponded to

10:34

what behaviors.

10:34

11

MR. AHN:

12

MR. TUNG:

13

THE WITNESS:

Q.

Can you expand on that.

Objection; vague.

10:34
10:34

Well, first of all, Mr. Kho

10:34

14

implemented the list functionality.

15

implementer of the contacts application.

The contacts

10:34

16

application is built on the list control.

And so he

10:34

17

was the implementer of the list control that the

10:34

18

contact application uses.

10:34

19

He was not the

So he -- he could answer questions about how

10:34

10:35

20

the list functionality behaves but not about how --

10:35

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there were -- there were specific questions about the

10:35

22

contact application itself that he was not able to

10:35

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answer.

10:35

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25

MR. AHN:

Q.

What types of questions were

you asking him about the contacts application itself?

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MR. TUNG:

2

THE WITNESS:

Objection; vague.

10:35

I was -- I was asking him

10:35

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functions about -- questions about the list

10:35

4

functionality because that's what he implemented, and

10:35

5

we were asking questions about the behavior of the

10:35

6

lists under certain -- you know, which -- which --

10:35

7

which versions of the software the list functionality

10:35

8

did exhibit certain behaviors.

10:35

9

MR. AHN:

Q.

What were the specific issues

10:36

10

that you wanted to discuss with Mr. Kho?

11

the general operation of the contacts list, or were

10:36

12

there any specific cases or examples that you wanted

10:36

13

to discuss with him?

10:36

14

MR. TUNG:

15

THE WITNESS:

Was it just

Objection; vague.
It was the general behavior,

10:36

10:36
10:36

16

the overall behavior of the list control that's used

10:36

17

in the contacts application.

10:36

18

There were also questions about the --

10:36

19

certain features, such as, for example, the -- the

10:36

20

blue glow and how that -- how that worked, and how the

10:36

21

implementation -- how -- how the implementation -- how

10:37

22

the implementation went or how -- how -- what -- what

10:37

23

it took in order to implement the blue glow, for

10:37

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example.

10:37

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MR. AHN:

Q.

What is blue glow?

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A

Blue glow is a means of showing the -- the

10:37

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user that they've reached the end of the document

10:37

3

that's an alternative to revealing the area beyond the

10:37

4

end of the document and then bouncing back.

10:37

5

blue glow is a -- is a blueish-shaded glow that

10:37

6

appears at the edge of the document that the user has

10:37

7

reached.

10:37

Q

10:38

8
9

So the

In your opinion, that's an alternative to

what I'm going to refer to as the '381's functionality

10:38

10

of showing an area beyond the edge and then snapping

10:38

11

back?

10:38

12

A

Yes.

10:38

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Q

Do you think it's a good alternative?

10:38

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MR. TUNG:

10:38

15

THE WITNESS:

Objection; vague.
I think that it's -- I -- I

10:38

16

think that it's -- it's a workable alternative.

17

and with my user interface designer hat on, it's --

10:38

18

it's probably not as intuitive as the -- the bounce,

10:38

19

but it's certainly better than some other

10:38

20

alternatives.

10:38

21
22

MR. AHN:

Q.

Why is it not as intuitive as

the bounce?

10:38

10:38
10:38

23

MR. TUNG:

24

THE WITNESS:

25

I --

Objection; vague.
Well, because the user would

have to learn what the blue glow means.

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MR. AHN:

Dr. Balakrishnan referred to some

10:39

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user commentary that he had seen on the Internet

10:39

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regarding the blue glow functionality, and I believe

10:39

4

he stated that many users were frustrated by it and

10:39

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felt that it wasn't as good as the bounce or the snap

10:39

6

back functionality.

10:39

7

Q

Do you agree with Dr. Balakrishnan?

10:39

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A

Well, I haven't seen -- I didn't -- I -- I --

10:39

9

I guess I don't dis -- agree or disagree with his --

10:39

10

his conclusion because I haven't seen that Internet --

10:39

11

those Internet discussions.

10:39

12

discussions about the -- the device.

13

Q

I'm not aware of Internet

10:39

For the blue glow, you had mentioned that you

10:39

14

had discussed with Mr. Kho the implementation of that

10:39

15

feature; is that correct?

10:40

16

A

Yes.

10:40

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Q

Can you tell me what he told you in that

10:40

18

regard.

19

how long it took him to develop that functionality?

Did he discuss just how it's implemented or

10:40
10:40

20

A

He did discuss those things.

10:40

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Q

Okay.

10:40

22
23
24
25

Let's take them in order.

Can you tell me about how it's implemented
inside of the contacts application.
A

What he said was that the -- that it

wasn't -- once they decided on what it -- what the

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behavior should -- sorry.

2

Let me start over.

Once they decided what the behavior should

10:40
10:40

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be -- that is, the blue glow -- implementing it was

10:40

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not that difficult because what they decided to do was

10:40

5

to have the blue glow extend out from the edge the

10:40

6

same distance that the document would have pulled away

10:41

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from the edge.

10:41

8

complex calculation, they didn't have to redo that

10:41

9

calculation because it was already done.

10:41

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Q

And so although that calculation is a

Why is that a complex calculation?

10:41

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MR. TUNG:

10:41

12

THE WITNESS:

Objection; vague.
I don't actually know why it's

10:41

13

a complex calculation, but he said that it was a

10:41

14

complex calculation.

10:41

15

function that's related to the distance that the user

10:41

16

has pulled his finger across the -- across the screen.

10:41

17

And in order to -- the document doesn't -- doesn't

10:41

18

follow necessarily the finger that -- that full --

10:42

19

that full distance.

10:42

20

He -- apparently, there's some

And so -- and so the blue glow -- similarly,

10:42

21

the amount that it -- that it extends out from the

10:42

22

edge of the document is based on this complex

10:42

23

function, but he didn't explain to me what the complex

10:42

24

function is.

10:42

25

MR. AHN:

Q.

When you see the blue glow

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itself, is that something that's overlaid on top of

10:42

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the image?

10:42

3

MR. TUNG:

4

THE WITNESS:

Yes.

10:42

5

MR. AHN:

How do you know that?

10:42

Objection; vague.

Q.

10:42

6

A

Because I saw it.

10:42

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Q

So it's not something that's, for lack of a

10:42

8

better way of describing it, becoming part of the

10:42

9

image, but it's just some type of layer that's over

10:42

the image?

10:42

10
11

MR. TUNG:

12

THE WITNESS:

Objection; vague.
Again, all I know is that the

10:42
10:42

13

blue glow appears in the image.

I don't know whether

10:43

14

it's implemented with layers because I didn't discuss

10:43

15

that with Mr. Kho.

10:43

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17

MR. AHN:

Q.

Have you ever seen any source

code for the blue glow functionality?

10:43
10:43

18

A

No.

10:43

19

Q

You mentioned that the blue glow itself

10:43

20

appears from the edge of the photograph; is that

10:43

21

right?

Strike that.

10:43

You mentioned that the blue glow itself would

10:43

22
23

appear from the edge of, for example, the contacts

10:43

24

list inside the contacts application; is that right?

10:43

25

MR. TUNG:

Objection; mischaracterizes

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testimony.

2

10:43

THE WITNESS:

It would -- it would -- it

10:43

3

would appear from either the top or the bottom of the

10:43

4

list, depending on which -- if you reached the top, it

10:43

5

would appear from the top edge.

10:43

6

bottom, it would appear from the bottom edge.

7

MR. AHN:

Q.

If you reached the

When you see the blue glow, are

10:44
10:44

8

you seeing something that's beyond the edge of the

10:44

9

contacts list?

10:44

10

A

No.

10:44

11

Q

What are you looking at, then?

10:44

12

A

You're looking at the edge of the document or

10:44

13

the edge of the contact list in this case, and you're

10:44

14

looking at a blue glow that is superimposed over

10:44

15

the -- the document edge.

10:44

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Q

You mentioned that Mr. Kho stated that it was

10:44

17

not that difficult to implement the blue glow

10:44

18

functionality.

10:44

19
20
21
22

Did he give you a time frame for how long it
took them to design that functionality?
A

10:44
10:44

No, he did not give me a time frame.

10:44

What he said was that deciding -- given the

10:44

23

fact that there was a team of people working together

10:45

24

on -- on this, deciding what the behavior should be is

10:45

25

what took time.

10:45

And then once they decided,

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implementing it did not take much time at all.

10:45

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Q

But he --

10:45

3

A

So there were difference -- there were

10:45

4

differences of opinion on the team as to what the

10:45

5

desired behavior should be.

10:45

6
7

Q

Did he tell you about any of those

10:45

differences of opinion?

10:45

8

A

No.

10:45

9

Q

And he didn't give you a specific time frame

10:45

10

for how long -- long it took to actually implement the

10:45

11

functionality; is that correct?

10:45

12
13
14

A

Correct.

He just said once they decided what

it should do, it was pretty easy to do.
Q

10:45
10:45

Do you agree with him on that?

10:45

15

MR. TUNG:

10:45

16

THE WITNESS:

Objection; vague.
I have no way of judging

10:45

17

whether he -- I just have to go by what he said.

18

don't -- I don't -- I didn't look at the source code.

10:46

19

I mean, he -- what he said was the blue glow extends

10:46

20

out the same distance that the document would have

10:46

21

pulled away from the edge.

10:46

22

sense that that wouldn't be difficult.

23
24
25

MR. AHN:

Q.

I

And so to me, it makes

Is there anything else that you

discussed with Mr. Kho?
A

Yes.

10:46
10:46
10:46

I remember asking him questions about

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whether there were any situations in which the

10:46

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contacts list moves in a two-dimensional way.

10:46

3

Q

What was his response?

10:46

4

A

Well, he said several times during the course

10:46

5

of the conversation that he did not implement the

10:47

6

contacts application.

10:47

7

functionality, which has built into it a number of

10:47

8

different possible behaviors.

10:47

9

application doesn't make use of everything that the

10:47

list functionality can do.

10:47

10

He only implemented the list

But the contacts

11

One thing that we had noted before we talked

10:47

12

to him was that it is possible to take specific list

10:47

13

items -- in certain versions of the software, it's

10:47

14

possible to take specific list items and move them

10:47

15

left to right, but the list as a whole only moves up

10:47

16

and down.

10:47

17

So we were asking him about other possible

10:47

18

situations in which there could be two-dimensional

10:47

19

motion.

10:47

20

Q

Based on your own examination of the Samsung

10:47

21

products, were there any instances in which you could

10:47

22

have the contacts list move in two dimensions?

10:47

23
24
25

A

The list as a whole -- no.

10:48

As I said, we did notice situations in which

10:48

specific items could be moved left or right.

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person who is using the device to make that decision?

2

MR. TUNG:

10:57

Objection; mischaracterizes

10:57

3

testimony; beyond the scope; vague; incomplete

10:58

4

hypothetical.

10:58

5
6

THE WITNESS:

I think it would depend on

the designer of the application.

7
8

No.

MR. AHN:

Q.

10:58
10:58

Can you explain what you mean

by that.

10:58

9

10:58
MR. TUNG:

10

Same objections.

THE WITNESS:

10:58

The -- the -- the application

10:58

11

is designed so that -- so that its contents can be

10:58

12

organized in certain ways.

10:58

13

computer systems we have folders, and we can put

10:58

14

folders inside folders.

10:58

15

MR. AHN:

Q.

So, for example, in most

So let's try it this way:

If

10:58

16

you had a folder inside the gallery that said "photos

10:59

17

from college," and then there was another folder that

10:59

18

said "photos from law school," you would consider

10:59

19

those to be separate electronic documents; is that

10:59

20

correct?

10:59

21

MR. TUNG:

22

THE WITNESS:

Same -- same objections.
I would consider the folders to

10:59
10:59

23

be electronic documents, just as the photographs are

10:59

24

electronic documents.

10:59

25

MR. AHN:

Q.

And if you simply had an entire

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gallery full of images, and you looked at the first

10:59

2

column of that and said, "Well, the first column is

10:59

3

going to be my law school photographs; I consider that

10:59

4

to be a separate electronic document," would that make

10:59

5

sense to you?

10:59

6
7
8
9

MR. TUNG:

Objection; incomplete

hypothetical; beyond the scope; vague.
THE WITNESS:

Yeah, I -- I don't know.

10:59
10:59
10:59

That's a hard question to answer because -- because

10:59

10

regardless of what -- regardless of what the designer

10:59

11

does, sometimes the users have to make up -- they have

11:00

12

to use the device in such a way that allows them to do

11:00

13

things that the designer may not have thought of.

11:00

14

And so -- so, for example, I know from my own

11:00

15

case, when I'm putting together a slide show for my

11:00

16

friends, I'll make sure that I'll allot pictures for

11:00

17

certain -- certain subjects are first, and then other

11:00

18

ones follow.

11:00

19

So whether -- whether the photographs, let's

11:00

20

say, that describe the departure on my vacation are a

11:00

21

separate document from the photographs that describe

11:00

22

the -- that depict the return from my vacation are --

11:00

23

are separate documents, is sort of in the mind of me,

11:00

24

the user.

11:01

25

MR. AHN:

Q.

Did you discuss the blue glow

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functionality in the gallery with Mr. Nam?
A

Probably.

I'm not sure -- I'm not sure I

11:01
11:01

3

remember whether we discussed blue glow with Mr. Nam.

11:01

4

The main person I remember discussing it with

11:01

5
6

was Mr. Kho, but I'm not -- I'm not sure.
Q

Do you know if the blue glow is implemented

11:01
11:01

7

the same way in the contacts application as it is in

11:01

8

the gallery application?

11:01

9

A

I don't know.

11:01

10

Q

And you don't recall if you had that specific

11:01

11

discussion with Mr. Nam regarding blue glow and the

11:01

12

gallery; correct?

11:01

13

A

Correct.

11:01

14

Q

Was there anything else that you remember

11:01

15

discussing with Mr. Nam?

11:02

16

A

Hold still.

11:02

17

Q

What do you mean by that?

11:02

18

A

The behavior of the gallery in which, when

11:02

19

you drag an image -- when -- first of all, you have to

11:02

20

go into zoomed-in mode.

11:02

21

looking at a picture magnified.

22

So you're in zoomed-in mode,

11:02

And when you move your finger slowly and pan

11:02

23

the picture and the edge of the document is -- the

11:02

24

edge of the photograph is reached and you let go, it

11:02

25

does not bounce back necessarily to the -- so that

11:02

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the -- the area beyond the edge is -- is no longer

11:02

2

displayed.

It doesn't necessarily bounce back.

11:03

It -- if you are moving your finger slowly

11:03

3
4

enough and you let go, it just stays where -- exactly

11:03

5

where it is.

11:03

6

Q

You just said that it does not bounce back

7

necessarily.

8

instances it would and in some instances it wouldn't?

9
10
11

A

Does that mean in some instances --

You have to be moving your finger very slowly

and then let go for it not to bounce back.

11:03
11:03
11:03
11:03

What do you think of that functionality?

11:03

12

MR. TUNG:

11:03

13

MR. AHN:

14

Q

11:03

Objection; vague.
And by "that functionality," I'm

referring to the hold still functionality.

15

MR. TUNG:

16

THE WITNESS:

17
18

It's still -- still vague.
I -- what I thought of it was

that it -- let's see.

11:03
11:03
11:03
11:03
11:03

It's hard to -- it's hard to make it happen.

11:03

19

So my -- my feeling was that it would -- it has a

11:04

20

certain -- it has a certain purpose.

11:04

21

certain purpose behind it, but one would have to know

11:04

22

that purpose in order to -- to do it because if you

11:04

23

move your finger too fast, it does bounce back.

11:04

24
25

MR. AHN:

Q.

There's a

What is the purpose of having

that functionality?

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to the electronic document in order to be beyond its

13:39

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edge.

13:39

3
4

MR. TUNG:

Objection; mischaracterizes

testimony.

5

13:39
13:39

THE WITNESS:

The -- the elements of Claim 1

13:39

6

of the patent say that in response to an edge of the

13:39

7

screen -- the edge of the document being reached, an

13:39

8

area beyond the edge of the document is displayed.

13:39

9

So what that means to me is at the time in

13:40

10

which some -- the area -- the edge of the document is

13:40

11

reached, something -- some software does something to

13:40

12

display something.

13:40

13

And what the software is doing is moving the

13:40

14

document aside and letting -- allowing the -- in the

13:40

15

Samsung phones, the -- the Samsung devices, it's

13:40

16

moving the -- the document aside and allowing the

13:40

17

background to be seen.

13:40

18

And that background was set up at the

13:40

19

beginning of the application, not in -- in response to

13:40

20

reaching the edge of the document.

13:40

21
22
23

MR. AHN:

Q.

Is the background being

displayed when you can't see it?
A

13:40

It's not being -- it's not being -- it's not

24

visible to the user.

25

not being displayed.

It's -- so in that sense, it's

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2
3

Q

Is there anything else you recall about your

discussion with Sun Young Kim from ThinkFree?
A

13:41

I think I just mentioned two things.

13:41
One is

13:41

4

that -- no.

5

remembered with my conversation with him is we just

13:41

6

discussed backgrounds.

13:41

Well, all I can remember -- all I

13:41

7

And the other thing that I remembered was

13:41

8

that I have seen source code for that -- for that

13:41

9

application, which I wasn't sure I had seen before.

13:41

10
11
12

Q

Is that listed in the materials considered in

your expert report?
A

13

13:41
13:41

Well, let's see.

Whoops.

Wrong document.

I don't see it listed here.

I think that it

13:41
13:42

14

mentions in -- in the report that I viewed source

13:42

15

code.

Let's see.

13:42

16

here.

Materials considered.

17

ThinkFree Office.

Let me just look

13:43

Right now, I'm not finding where it -- it

13:43

18

mentions in here that I considered some soft -- some

13:43

19

of the source code for ThinkFree Office.

13:43

20

Q

Okay.

Let me ask you a little bit more about

13:43

21

the blue glow design-around that we previously

13:43

22

discussed.

13:44

23

A

Uh-huh.

13:44

24

Q

Do you know when that functionality was

13:44

25

implemented in Samsung's devices?

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A

Well, based on my conversations with the

13:44

2

Samsung engineers, it was implemented sometime in -- I

13:44

3

believe they said it was sometime in 2011, but I --

13:44

4

I'm not -- I'm not really sure.

13:44

5

mention a specific date.

6

sort of time of the year.

7

I don't -- I'm not actually positive about that.

8
9

Q

I -- they didn't

They just talked about the
I think it was early 2011.

You yourself have not seen the source code

for that functionality; is that correct?

13:44
13:44
13:44
13:44
13:44

10

A

That's correct.

13:45

11

Q

You also offered the opinion that this is not

13:45

12

a particularly complicated design-around, that it was

13:45

13

fairly easy to implement; do you recall that?

13:45

14

A

Yes.

13:45

15

Q

Would implementing that type of functionality

13:45

16

be something that was well known by people in the

13:45

17

field?

13:45

18

MR. TUNG:

19

THE WITNESS:

20

MR. AHN:

21

Objection; vague.
People in what field?

In the field of user interfaces,

human/computer interaction.

22

MR. TUNG:

23

THE WITNESS:

13:45
13:45
13:45
13:45

Objection; vague.
Well, as I said, the Samsung

13:45
13:45

24

engineers told me that it took them a while to figure

13:45

25

out on -- among their team what the -- what the design

13:45

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should be.

2

that out, then they -- implementing it was not hard.

3

And then once they designed -- figured

I don't think there was any -- from that,

13:45
13:46
13:46

4

I -- I am saying that I am -- I'm getting that

13:46

5

there's -- there wasn't sort of a preconceived idea of

13:46

6

what the design should be.

13:46

7

experience before, I haven't seen that kind of a way

13:46

8

of indicating that you've reached the edge of a

13:46

9

document.

13:46

10
11
12

MR. AHN:

And certainly, in my

Let me turn now to the '381 patent

itself.

13:46
You previously testified that you had a

13:46

13

general understanding what the patent was about, and I

13:46

14

think you said that it offered visual feedback

13:46

15

regarding reaching the end of an electronic document;

13:46

16

is that accurate?

13:46

17

Q

13:46

A

Yes.

It's a patent about displaying -- yes.

13:46

18

It's giving users visual feedback when they reach the

13:47

19

edge of a -- edge of a document.

13:47

20
21

Q

Do you know what problem the '381 patent was

trying to solve?

13:47
13:47

22

MR. TUNG:

23

THE WITNESS:

Objection; vague.
Well, it says in the

13:47
13:47

24

specification it was trying to solve -- or in the --

13:47

25

in the -- in the beginning of the patent, in the

13:47

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introduction, it says that it's trying to solve the

13:47

2

problem of the user knowing that they received --

13:47

3

reached the end of the document.

13:47

4
5

MR. AHN:

Q.

Do you think that was an issue

prior to the '381 patent?

13:47
13:47

6

A

Yes.

13:47

7

Q

Why?

13:47

8

A

Because users would reach ends of documents

13:47

9
10
11

and need some feedback that they reached the end.
Q

Do you recall what types of feedback or lack

of feedback that existed prior to the '381 patent?

12
13

13:47

MR. TUNG:

13:47

Objection; vague and beyond the

13:47

scope.

14

13:47

13:47
THE WITNESS:

Well, prior to the '381 patent,

13:47

I mean, prior to bounce, there were --

13:48

15

I'm not sure.

16

there was -- there were user interfaces that did

13:48

17

nothing, that basically did a hard stop.

13:48

18

There -- I don't know what other -- you know,

13:48

19

typically in a word processor, let's say Microsoft

13:48

20

Word, when you reach the end of the document, it

13:48

21

stops.

13:48

22

But you weren't scrolling by dragging your

13:48

23

finger.

24

the side of the screen, and that was usually in the

13:48

25

opposite direction that the document was moving.

13:48

You were scrolling by pulling a scroll bar on

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A

An edge that is at the extreme -- or a

16:00

2

scrollable edge is actually at the -- at the edge of

16:00

3

an electronic document in the -- that's -- I guess the

16:00

4

edge is perpendicular to the direction of movement of

16:00

5

the -- of the document, you know.

16:00

6

case, it's perpendicular to the edge.

7

is -- can move in an unconstrained way, then some of

16:00

8

the -- then all of the edges are scrollable edges,

16:00

9

really.

16:00

10

MR. AHN:

11

In the constrained
If the document

marked as Exhibit No. 4.

12
13

I'm going to hand you what I've

for identification.)
THE WITNESS:

15

MR. AHN:

16

No.

16:01
16:01

So are we through with this?

16:01

You can leave that open in

16:01

front of you.

16:01

17

THE WITNESS:

18

MR. AHN:

19

Exhibit 4 is just a screen capture from the

20

16:01
16:01

(Document marked J. Johnson Exhibit 4

14

16:00

Okay.

16:01

I'll come back to it.

New York Times homepage from yesterday.

16:01
16:01
16:01

21

THE WITNESS:

Okay.

16:01

22

MR. AHN:

Can you tell me in Exhibit 4

16:01

23
24
25

Q.

what you would consider to be the scrollable edges.
MR. TUNG:

16:01

So I'll object that this is a -- a

16:01

printout on a piece of paper, and you're asking about

16:01

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edges in the context of the '381 document --

16:01

2

'381 patent.

16:01

3
4

MR. AHN:
Q

Let me give you some context.

16:01

This is just a screen capture of Internet

16:01

5

Explorer showing the New York Times homepage.

6

curious as to, if you were looking at this on the

16:02

7

screen of a computer, what you would consider to be a

16:02

8

scrollable edge?

16:02

9
10
11

MR. TUNG:

And I'm

So I'll still make the same

objection.

16:01

16:02
16:02

THE WITNESS:

Yeah, it would be -- it would

16:02

12

be nicer if this picture had -- had the browser also

16:02

13

shown in it so that I could see something about

16:02

14

where -- you know, how the browser is.

16:02

15

But assuming that the browser is oriented

16:02

16

vertically on the page the same way that this is, then

16:02

17

I would consider scrollable edges to be the top and

16:02

18

the bottom because we are viewing the entire width of

16:02

19

the page.

16:02

20

And, therefore, the -- when -- the way the

16:02

21

browser operates is that it's constrained when you're

16:02

22

looking at the -- when you're zoomed out, to me.

16:02

23
24
25

And so the scrollable edges are the top and
the bottom.
MR. AHN:

16:02
16:02

And, in fact, if this were being

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displayed on one of the accused Samsung products with

16:03

2

blue glow in it, if you tried to go up and down, you

16:03

3

would actually see the blue glow appear from the top

16:03

4

or the bottom, depending on the direction of the

16:03

5

scroll; is that correct?

16:03

MR. TUNG:

Objection; incomplete

16:03

I'll just say same objections.

16:03

6
7

hypothetical.

8
9

THE WITNESS:

If you are scrolling the page

16:03

down and you reach the top, then the blue glow would

16:03

10

appear from the top edge.

If you're scrolling up and

16:03

11

you reach the bottom, then the blue glow would appear

16:03

12

from the bottom edge.

16:03

13

MR. AHN:

Q.

What about the photograph

14

towards the center of the page?

15

that an electronic document?

Would you consider

16:03
16:03
16:03

16

A

That's a document inside a document, yes.

16:03

17

Q

So in this example, would you consider the

16:03

18

overall New York Times page as the electronic

16:03

19

document, with other electronic documents embedded in

16:03

20

it?

16:03

21

A

Well, I -- I suppose so.

Yes, I would.

16:03

22

Balakrishnan has said in his statement that a photo --

16:04

23

photographs are electronic documents, so -- and I

16:04

24

agree with him.

16:04

25

Q

Would you consider the edges of the

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photograph to be scrollable edges in this example?

2

MR. TUNG:

3

THE WITNESS:

Same -- same objection.
Well, this sort of depends

16:04
16:04
16:04

4

on -- on the application because in some applications,

16:04

5

as we've seen, there is -- there is snap in between

16:04

6

documents in a -- an electronic -- in documents that

16:04

7

are contained in an electronic document; that is to

16:04

8

say, the subordinate documents.

16:04

9

between them, and in other applications there isn't

16:05

any such snap.

16:05

10

There is snap in

11

So, for example, in ThinkFree Office, if it's

16:05

12

in the vertical mode, there is no snap in between any

16:05

13

pages.

16:05

14

is snap in ThinkFree Office.

15

But if it's in the horizontal mode, then there

16:05

And similarly, in this browser, there --

16:05

16

there isn't -- there isn't -- there isn't snap between

16:05

17

the sub -- subdocuments of the main document.

16:05

18

Now, first of all, I will say that even if

16:05

19

there were snap between subordinate documents in a

16:05

20

browser, I wouldn't expect that snap to ever appear or

16:05

21

to be noticeable unless I were to zoom that -- that --

16:06

22

zoom the document display up such that the photograph

16:06

23

filled the entire display.

16:06

24
25

You know, I have seen other applications in
which if I -- if I zoomed up so the page was looking

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THE WITNESS:

2

shares some characteristics.

3

form factor is for the Apple phone.

4

Well, it -- like I said, it
I don't know what the

17:28
17:28
17:28

For example, the iPhone -- I don't know if

17:28

5

they're wider than this is, you know.

6

there's a certain aspect ratio here.

I don't know if

17:28

7

the iPhone is the same aspect ratio.

But it does

17:29

8

share some characteristics of an iPhone, yes.

9

MR. AHN:

In other words,

You can go ahead and power it on.

17:28

17:29
17:29

10

And if you want to go ahead and examine the build

17:29

11

information, that's fine.

17:29

12

THE WITNESS:

It is hardware version i500.04.

13

Mode No. SCH-i500.

14

2.1.

15

Kernel version 2.6.29, and Build No. SCH-i500.DJ20.

Update 1.

16

MR. AHN:

Formula Version Firmware Version

Baseband version S:I500.04K.DJ20.

Q.

I just want to direct your

17:29
17:29
17:29
17:30
17:30

17

attention to page 22 of your report.

18

the top, in row number 12, it states the Galaxy S

17:30

19

Showcase i500, and then it states Android Version

17:30

20

2.3.5; do you see that?

17:30

At the table at

17:30

21

A

I see that.

17:30

22

Q

That's a different version than the Galaxy S

17:30

23

Showcase that's been marked as Exhibit 8; correct?

17:30

24

A

Correct.

17:30

25

Q

The opinions that you've expressed about the

17:30

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Galaxy S Showcase that you examined are not

17:30

2

necessarily applicable to the Galaxy S Showcase that

17:31

3

is Exhibit 8; correct?

17:31

4

A

That's correct.

17:31

5

Q

Go ahead and open up the Gallery application

17:31

6

on that phone.

7

document around.

8

And go ahead and try moving the

17:31
17:31

Do you see the blue glow functionality?

17:31

9

A

No.

17:31

10

Q

Taking a look at your report again, on

17:31

11

page 22, the box that is checked is the fourth

17:31

12

non-infringement position, and looking at page 23 of

17:31

13

your report, the fourth non-infringement position is

17:31

14

blue glow; is that right?

17:32

15

A

Correct.

17:32

16

Q

So even if your opinion regarding

17:32

17

non-infringement on the Galaxy S Showcase phone that

17:32

18

you examined was based on the fact that it had the

17:32

19

blue glow functionality, that opinion does not apply

17:32

20

to the Galaxy S Showcase phone that is Exhibit 8;

17:32

21

correct?

17:32

22

A

Correct.

17:32

23

Q

You can go ahead and set that aside.

17:32

Why don't we take a quick break.

17:32

24
25

I think I'm

just about finished

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2

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

The time is 5:33 p.m., and

we are off the record.

17:32

3

(Recess taken.)

4

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

5

7

17:32
The time is 5:43 p.m., and

we are on the record.

6

MR. AHN:

Q.

17:32

17:42
17:42

Dr. Johnson, have you been

17:42

asked to testify at the trial of this case?

17:42

8

A

Not yet.

17:42

9

Q

Is it your understanding that you intend to

17:42

10
11
12
13
14

testify at trial in this case?
A

I don't know.

17:42

That -- I guess it's a

17:43

possibility, but I don't really know.
MR. AHN:

17:43

Thank you for your time today.

I

have no further questions.

17:43

15

17:43

16
17

17:43

EXAMINATION BY MR. TUNG
MR. TUNG:

17:43

So I have a couple of questions,

18

and if it's okay, I'll just proceed.

19

were on Exhibit 8.

So I think we

17:43
17:43
17:43

20

Can you mark this as Exhibit 9.

17:43

21

THE WITNESS:

It's the expert report.

17:43

22

(Document marked J. Johnson Exhibit 9

17:43

23
24
25

for identification.)
MR. TUNG:

17:43

And then mark this one as

Exhibit 10.

17:43
17:43

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