Weather Underground, Incorporated v. Navigation Catalyst Systems, Incorporated et al

Filing 201

DECLARATION by William A. Delgado re 193 Response to Motion filed by Connexus Corporation, Firstlook, Incorporated, Navigation Catalyst Systems, Incorporated (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit K, # 2 Exhibit L, # 3 Exhibit M, # 4 Exhibit N, # 5 Exhibit O, # 6 Exhibit P, # 7 Exhibit Q, # 8 Exhibit R, # 9 Exhibit S, # 10 Exhibit T, # 11 Exhibit U, # 12 Exhibit V, # 13 Exhibit W) (Delgado, William)

A Westlaw Deposition Services transcript, reported by LiveNote Certified
Partner: Network Deposition Services

United States District Court
Eastern District of Michigan
**Confidential**
Deposition

Of

Mavi Llamas

September 27,2010

The Weather Underground, Inc.

v.
Navigation Catalyst Systems, Inc., et al.

Llamas, Mavi
Confidential

1

2
3

4

Q

9/27/2010

And what job responsibilities or duties did

you have as domain name administrator?
A

I was hired to review the domain list for

pur- -- prior to purchasing.
And by reviewing it,

5

I

would look at the

6

actual list of domains,

7

if they matched any trademarks that

8

and filter those out, also filter out adult terms.

9

And then

10

Q

I

was aware of

would submit the domain list for

purchase.

11

I

would review them to see

I

12
13

Are you aware if anyone else was performing

review of the domains at that time?
A

At that time, during my first few months,

14

there was a training period.

15

reported to also reviewed the list after

So the person I
I

would.

16

Q

And who was that person?

17

A

That was Jerry Araujo.

18

Q

And how long was that training period?

19

A

I

20

Q

Had you had any training prior to beginning

21

don't remember.

your employment?

22

Put another way, during the time when you

23

were a temp to the time that you received this

24

employment offer, had you received any training?

25

A

Yes.

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Q

And what kind of training did you receive?

2

A

It was verbal training! the tools that we

3

9/27/2010

used.
It was basically:

4

"This is where you

5

receive the list.

6

in the list.

7

things you don't want to register."
Q

8

9

This is what you're looking for

These are the examples of types of

And when you say things you were looking

for! what were you looking for?
A

10

I was looking at the domains and looking

11

for trademarks that I recognized and filtering those

12

out.

13

Q

When you say trademarks you recognized --

14

A

That was

15

Q

-- what do you mean by that?

16

A

Anything that I would have known that was

17

clearly not something we would want to purchase like

18

Bank of America or, you know, some -- a big

19

trademark that you would just easily recognize.
Q

Were you provided a list of trademarks

22

A

No.

23

Q

And did you receive any training about what

20
21

24

25

to

a trademark was?
A

No.

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2
3

A

9/27/2010

I don't remember the exact times.

I

--

I

would say maybe a year and a half, maybe two years.
Q

And this document says "The Vendare Group,"

4

and you told me earlier that you work for Epic

5

Media; is that correct?

6
7

A
company.

That's the company that purchased our
It's -- we've had several different names.

8

Q

And what were those names?

9

A

I started with the company -- when I was a

10

temp, it was called NewDotNet.

11

Q

And when was that?

12

A

That was August 2004.

13

Then we were acquired by the Vendare Group,

14

and then after the Vendare Group it became

15

NetBlue -- well, Vendare NetB1ue.

16
17

Q

Do you know about when it become Vendare

NetB1ue?

18

A

No.

19

Q

Okay.

20

A

And now we are the Epic Media Group.

21

Q

Isn't there another organization known as

22
23
24
25

Then what happened?

the Connexus Corporation?
A

Yes, correct.

Yes.

That was another name change.

It was after

the Vendare NetBlue merger.

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912712010

this kind of work; correct?

2

A

Yes.

3

Q

And were you overseeing that work?

4

A

Yes.

5

Q

Now, 1S this work that you originally, back

6

1n 2004 when you were brought on, had performed?

7

A

No.

8

Q

How does it -- how did it differ?

9

A

I did not categorize domain names.

10

Q

Okay.

11

12

Did you perform domain compliance

and trademark review?
A

That is what I was hired to do, to review

13

the domain list for potential trademark

14

infringement.

15

16
17

Q

Now, when you say the domain list, can you

tell me what you're referring to.
A

We purchased domain -- we used to purchase

18

domain names daily, and we had a list of domain

19

names that we were considering purchasing.

20

That is the domain list.

21

Q

And in what format would you see that list?

22

A

In an Excel spreadsheet.

23

Q

And how often would you see that Excel

24

25

spreadsheet?
A

Every day.

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me -- the categorization tool.

2

MR. HALL:

3

(Plaintiff's Exhibit 137 was marked

4

for identification by the deposition

5

reporter and is attached hereto.)

6

Let's mark this Exhibit 137.

BY MR. HALL:
Q

7

And I'll represent to you that your counsel

8

provided some 22,000 pages of e-mails and related

9

documentation to us last week.

I obviously reserve

10

the right to further this deposition after review of

11

those.

12

This being said, one of the documents that

13

we were able to identify is the one that I've marked

14

as Exhibit 137.

15
16

Is this the attachments you just referred
to?

17

A

Yes.

18

Q

And what is this document we're looking at?

19

A

This is an early version of our -- of our

20

trademark list and our domain list along with a

21

trademark fil- -- not filtration -- I'm using the

22

wrong words -- but a fuzzy matching system.

23

24

25

Q

When you say early list, what time frame

are we talking about here?
A

I would say this would be either late

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2004 -- excuse me -- or early 2005.
MR. DELGADO:

2

And for the record, this list

3

would have been attached to an e-mail with a date on

4

it.
THE WITNESS:

5

6
7

BY MR. HALL:
Q

10
11

Now let's look at each of these columns.
And just so I'm clear, since it was

8

9

Yes.

attached to one of your e-mails, was it sent to you,
or did you send it to someone else?
A

12

I actually don't know.

I don't remember.

I didn't review every e-mail that I

13

provided.

14

Q

15

Is it safe to say you would have reviewed

this document?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

So if we're looking at the columns, the

18

first column shows walmartdistributioncenter.com; is

19

that correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

what would that be -- what would that

22

domain name be in the column for?

23

A

24

This is actually an example of our domain

list.

25

So the first column would be a domain.

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2004 -- excuse me -- or early 2005.

MR. DELGADO:

2

And for the record r this list

3

would have been attached to an e-mail with a date on

4

it.
THE WITNESS:

5

6
7

BY MR. HALL:
Q

8
9

10
11

Yes.

Now let's look at each of these columns.
And just so I'm clear r since it was

attached to one of your e-mails r was it sent to

YOUr

or did you send it to someone else?
A

12

I actually don't know.

I don't remember.

I didn't review every e-mail that I

13

provided.

14

Q

15

Is it safe to say you would have reviewed

this document?

16

A

Yes.

17

Q

So if we're looking at the columns r the

18

first column shows walmartdistributioncenter.com; is

19

that correct?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

What would that be -- what would that

22

domain name be in the column for?

23

A

24

This is actually an example of our domain

list.

25

So the first column would be a domain.

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9/27/2010

I don't know what the second[ third[

2

fourth[ fifth[ or sixth column represents because it

3

was 2004[ 2005.
But the last column is trademark hits that

4

5

we ran against.

6

list of trademarks [ and these are the fuzzy matching

7

hits.

8

Q

9

Okay.

We ran the domain name against a

So you have no idea what the second[

third[ fourth [ fifth[ or sixth columns are?

10

A

I'm sure I knew then[ but I don't remember.

11

Q

How long did you -- strike that.
You said this was from around 2004, 2005?

12
13

A

Yes.

14

Q

When did you stop performing your job that

15

included looking at this domain list on a daily

16

basis?
A

That would have been after Lily was hired

19

Q

Was that 2005?

20

A

Again [ I don't remember the exact dates.

17
18

21
22

23

on.

We've gone over that.
Q

So when was the last time you would have

reviewed a document like this?

24

A

I don't remember.

25

Q

So you're telling me here today you have no

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2

9/27/2010

BY MR. HALL:
Q

WeIll let me ask you this:

In two -- this

3

type of spreadsheet is the same spreadsheet that's

4

been used since 2004i.is that right?

5

A

I don't think so.

6

Q

How has it changed?

7

A

In two -- in the beginning of 2004

8

didn't have this spreadsheet when

9

1

we

It was just a list of domain names.

I

first started.

10

Q

Nothing else besides domain names?

11

A

Nothing else.

12

Q

So you had no guidance as to what

13

trademarks--

14

A

No.

15

Q

-- pertained to that?

16

A

No.

17

Q

And you didn't have any of these other

18

columns that
No.

19

A

20

Q

21

they are?

22

A

No.

23

Q

Okay.

24

25

you're telling me you don't know what

When was additional columns added to

the spreadsheet?
A

I don't know the exact dates.

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Q

Can you give me an estimate?

2

A

I estimate late 2004 or early 2005.

3

Q

And what would have been added at that

4

time?

5

A

9/27/2010

6
7

8

All of these columns, everything after the

domain name.
Q

Okay.

And is this still the same process

that's followed today?

9

A

I don't know what the process is today.

10

Q

When was the last time that you performed

11

this process?

12

A

I think it was in 2007, but I'm not sure.

13

Q

If we looked at the second domain,

14

allanbrothersteaks.com, the right-hand column has a

15

star or an asterisk symbol and then "landry."

16
17

Do you know what that asterisk symbol
means?

18

A

Yes.

19

Q

What does it mean?

20

A

That would have been something that we

21

termed a higher-priority potential trademark because

22

we may have been contacted by a company with that

23

name or that mark.

24
25

Q

So how does "landry" related to

allanbrotherssteaks.com?

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Llamas.

2

We are going book on the record.

3

The time is 11:14 a.m.

4

MR. DELGADO:

And r Counselrjust for the

5

record r Exhibit 138 is an attachment to an e-mail

6

that was dated November 1st r 2005.

7

BY MR. HALL:

8

9

10

Q

Okay.

So November 1st r 2005 r would that

have been a time that you were reviewing these
sheets?

11

A

I don't remember.

12

Q

You told me earlier that columns were added

13
14

over time to this?
A

The original list was just one column of

15

domain names r and then the following columns were

16

added when we learned to do fuzzy matching.

17
18

Q

So clearly it would have been added no

later than November 2005?

19

A

That is correct.

20

Q

Are you aware of any changes to this

21
22

23
24

25

spreadsheet since November 2005?
A

Yes r there were changes because the way we

were reviewing the domain list changed.
The people who managed this partr this
process r the fuzzy matching of the trademark hits r

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were no longer with the company.

2

I believe that Donnie Misino was building a

3

different trademark tool.

4

changes, yes.
Q

5
6

So I believe there were

Would it be accurate to say that a list

like this is still produced every single day?
A

7

I don't know.
Exhibit 139.

8

MR. HALL:

9

(Plaintiff's Exhibit 139 was marked

10

for identification by the deposition

11

reporter and is attached hereto.}

12

BY MR. HALL:

13

Q

Do you know what this document is?

14

A

No.

It looks like an e-mail.

15
Q

18

19
20

Do you know who would have sent that to

A

16
17

I'm reading it.

Not without seeing

you?

MR. DELGADO:

Why don't you give her the

first page.

21

MR. HALL:

22

THE WITNESS:

23

MR. HALL:

24

didn't grab the first page.

25

Simply because I don't have it.

Of the 22,000 pages, I guess I

MR. DELGADO:

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I don't know.

The most of which, by the

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Q

9/27/2010

And that process that was used for Idealab

2

and some of the other partners, was that same

3

process used for Navigation Catalyst Systems?

4

A

I don't know.

5

Q

Why don't you know?

6

A

Because Navigation Catalyst Systems existed

7

before I was hired.

8

Q

Do you know who would know?

9

A

No.

10

Q

Let's look at Exhibit 106.

11
12

Are you a member of the Firstlook board of
directors?

13

A

No.

14

Q

Have you ever sat in on a meeting of the

15

board of directors?

16

A

No.

17

Q

Have you ever prepared a document to be

18

presented to the board of directors?

19

A

No.

20

Q

This was a document that was produced in

21

discovery.

22

And if you look at the second page, it

23

mentions "2008 - A Year of Change."

24

Do you see that?

25

A

Yes.

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Q

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No.1 says:
"Elimination of domain tasting

2
3

In June 2008."

4

Do you know what domain tasting is?

5

A

Yes.

6

Q

What

7

A

It is the process where a domain name is

lS

it?

8

registered and then kept for five days

9

tasting period is what they call it -- before -- I

a five-day

10

believe it was the fifth -- or I'm not sure if it's

11

the sixth -- day where you would actually have to

12

pay for it if you kept it.

13

If you deleted the domain name prior to

14

that time, you did not have to pay for the domain

15

name.

16

Q

17

And is domain tasting something that

Navigation Catalyst Systems did?

18

A

Firstlook did that, yes.

19

Q

NOW, when Firstlook was doing that, what

20
21

was your job?
A

Reviewing the domain list for the

22

purchase -- the domain names that had been purchased

23

after the fifth day so that we could determine what

24

we were going to keep.

25

Q

Would you get a spreadsheet similar to the

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9127/2010

If it has been reviewed and our

2

categorizers looked at this and were not able to

3

figure anything out on it, then nothing would be

4

added.

5

Q

Now, if you chose to add keywords to a

6

particular page such as the one we're looking at,

7

where would those keywords appear?

8

9

10

A

They would appear at the top, the top three

above "Top Searches."
Q

If we look back at Exhibit 144, would it

11

look like where it says "Related Searches - Local

12

Weather, Weather Forecast, Weather Underground"?

13

A

No.

14

Q

How would it be different?

15

A

It would look like this template.

16

would be three keywords above.

17

There

more than three.

There would not be

Would all the other content still appear on

18

Q

19

the page?

20

A

Yes.

21

Q

And you said before that you could go back

22

and look and determine whether or not a particular

23

domain name had keywords associated with it.

24

A

Yes ..

25

Q

How do you do that?

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them to the blacklist.
Q

So in 2004 and 2005 when you were domain

manager, this blacklist existed?
A

In 2004, 2005, the blacklist, as you're

5

as we're looking at it in this sheet, no, it did not

6

exist.

7

I had a spreadsheet that I was using for

8

myself to try to track the contact that had been

9

made with me and follow up on that -- that contact

10

and also track the marks that were listed in the --

11

In the initial contact, the cease and desist letter,

12

so that I

13

anything.

14

Q

15

would not -- so that I

would not register

I would try to filter those out.
So in 2004, 2005, was there anybody else

performing the same job as you?

16

A

No.

17

Q

When Lily Stevenson was hired, was she the

18

only one performing that job?

19

A

Yes.

20

Q

Did she use the blacklist that you had

21
22
23
24

25

created in her role as domain manager?
A

She may have used the same spreadsheet.
I would have turned it over and said, "This

is where I left off for you to continue.
She may have changed it.

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walmartdistributionce
nter.com

3

5 ok

ok

predistribution :: action center :: smart centers :: actioncenter :: alarm center ::
alpha center :: heart center :: smart button :: smart center :: adhd center :: apis
center :: asia center :: auto center:: beta center :: bilo center :: call center ::
dibi center:: diet center:: distri best:: doit center:: gear center:: hult center::
loma center :: math center :: nail center :: rent center:: slim center :: smart
cents :: smart strip :: soft center :: star center :: stud center :: tour center ::
town center :: true center :: wang center :: will center :: wish center :: zone
center :: art center :: omnicenter:: smart but :: td center :: al dente.:: njcenter ::
oncenter:: opcenter:: smart io :: twist ti :: wal mart:: koncent :: srhart e ::
smart r:: smart u :: tieonce :: tiocent:: walkart:: walmart:: wanmart:: admart
:: al mar :: almark :: aridis :: art is :: artdio :: arteis :: arthis :: asmart :: balmar ::
calmar :: incent :: ionfen :: kalmar :: martis :: niente :: oscent :: salmar :: twistr
:: valmar:: walmac:: walmer:: wilmar:: admar:: alcar:: alkar:: allar:: almac::
almag :: almar:: almas:: almax:: almay :: alnar:: aloar:: an mar :: armdi :: art
e :: artis :: atmar :: balma :: calma :: elmar :: falma :: kalma :: ncert :: nvent ::
onyen :: palma :: radis :: rtist:: rudis :: tiopc :: tri e :: wajma :: warma :: wilma ::
118 alma:: rtdi

~

CONFIDENTIAL

13t'

EXHIBIT

i 13r

j

NCS083966

Llamas, Mavi
Confidential

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STATE OF CALIFORNIA

2

9/27/2010

COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

ss:
3

4

1/ JUDY SAMSON, do hereby certify:

5

That I am a duly qualified Certified Shorthand

6

Reporter/ in and for the State of California/ holder of

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certificate number 6916, which is in full force and

8

effect and that I am authorized to administer oaths and

9

affirmations;

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That the foregoing deposition testimony of the

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herein named witness was taken before me at the time and

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place herein set forth;

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That prior to being examined/ the witness named

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in the foregoing deposition/ was duly sworn or affirmed

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by me/ to testify the truth/ the whole truth, and

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nothing but the truth;

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That the testimony of the witness and all

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objections made at the time of the examination were

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recorded stenographically by me, and were thereafter

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transcribed under my direction and supervision;

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That the foregoing pages contain a full, true

22

and accurate record of the proceedings and testimony to

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the best of my skill and ability;

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That prior to the completion of the foregoing
deposition, review of the transcript was requested.

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Confidential - Under Seal

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I further certify that I am not a relative or

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employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties,

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nor am I a relative or employee'of such attorney or

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counsel, nor am I financially interested in the outcome

5

of this action.

6
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed my name

7

8

this 7th

day of October

, 2010.

9

10
11

G
12

JUDY SAMSON, CSR No. 6316

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