Bourne Co. v. Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation et al

Filing 34

DECLARATION of Paul M. Fakler in Support re: 28 MOTION for Summary Judgment.. Document filed by Bourne Co.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit Exhibit B, # 3 Exhibit Exhibit C, # 4 Exhibit Exhibit D, # 5 Exhibit Exhibits E-G, # 6 Exhibit Exhibit H, # 7 Exhibit Exhibit I, # 8 Exhibit Exhibits J-K, # 9 Exhibit Exhibits L-M, # 10 Exhibit Exhibits N-O)(Fakler, Paul)

EXHIBIT D

SETH MACFARLANE

i
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

BOUR CO.,

Plaintiff,
vs.
TWNTIETH CENTURY FOX FILM
CORPORATION, FOX BROADCASTING
No. 07 CIV. 8580 (DAB)

COMPAN, TWNTIETH CENTURY FOX
TELEVISION, INC., TWNTIETH
CENTURY FOX HOME ENTERTAINMNT,
INC., FUZZY DOOR PRODUCTIONS,
INC., THE CARTOON NE TWORK, INC.,)

SETH MAC FAR, WALTER MUPHY,)
Defendan ts .

DEPOSITION OF

SE TH MACFAR
TAKN ON
MONDAY, MACH 10, 2008

Reported by:
Daryl Baucum, RPR, CRR, CBC, CSR No. 10356

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SETH MACFARLANE

9

1 answer or if at any time you feel you need to clarify 2 anything you said before, feel free right in the moment

3 to go and do that. We are really interested in just
4 getting a fair and honest accounts of your recollections

5 here today.

6 Do you understand that?
7 8

A.
Q.

I do.

What companies are involved in the production

9 of "Family Guy"?
10

A.

20th Century Fox. There are various post

11 houses and, you know, mixing houses, but that's as far

12 as the actual production, 20th Century Fox.
13
14

Q.

And how about Fuzzy Door?

A.

Fuzzy Door is a label for my production

15

company.
Q.
Does Fuzzy Door have any business relationship

16

17 wi th Fox in connection with the show?
18

A.
Q.

Excuse me?

19

Sure.
Yes.
And what is that relationship?
Fuzzy Door is again.

20 21 22 23

A.
Q.

A.

It's the production label
It's just what we

for my company. There's no staff.

24 call it. So Fuzzy Door is linked with Fox in that

25 regard.
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SETH MACFARLANE

ge 10
1

Q.

Just so I understand your relationship to Fuzzy

2 Door, does Fuzzy Door -- is Fuzzy Door a corporation?
3
4

A.
Q.

Yes.
Does Fuzzy Door have any employees?

5
6 7 8

A.
Q.

No.
Are you saying essentially are you Fuzzy Door?

A.
Q.

Yes.
And Fuzzy Door is just for the purposes of your

9 relationship with Fox and in connection with the "Family

10 Guy"?
11

A.
Q.

Yes.
Does Fuzzy Door do any other work other than

12

13 "Family Guy"?
14

A.
Q.

Yes.
What other things does Fuzzy Door do?
We did a series of Internet animated shorts.

15
6

A.

17 "American Dad," there is a script deal for a feature and 18 to the best of my knowledge, that's it.
19

Q.

Are you aware that the plaintiff and whom I

20 represent in this case requested documents from Fuzzy

21 Door?
22

A.
Q.

No.
Are you aware that the plaintiff requested

23

24 documents from you?
25

A.

Yes.
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ETH MACFARLAN

Pag 14
A. I don't recall if it was the whole staff.

Q. Do you remember any people in particular who

were involved?
A. Yes.
Q. Who were they?
6
7

A.

Rickey Bli tt, David Zuckerman. Anything else
And is this an accurate description of what the

would be hazy memory to guess work.
Q.

8

9 story consisted of at that point?
o

A.

Yes.

Q. Was there a title at this pitch stage yet?
A. I recall that there was.
13

Q.

Would you have any idea why it wasn't reflected

14 in this document?
s

A.
Q.

No.
And what was the title?
I can't say for certain.

16

A.

I believe it was when

8 you wish upon a Weinstein.
9

Q.

What was the inspiration -- what was the

o inspiration for the story idea?
L~
') C

A.

One of my Jewish friends pointed out to me at

22 one point that I was calling him every time I went to
3 make a purchase, whether it be a car or a fax machine,

24 whatnot. And it occurred to me that I had in fact been
2 bringing a Jewish person with me whenever I went to make
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SETH MACFARLANE

P 15 Ii
a purchase of any magnitude and I thought what a funny

2 idea for, you know, a -- you know, for Peter that he has

3 this in a sense reverse bigotry that he sort of turns 4 the Archie Bunker thing on its ear and that he would in

5 fact view a Jewish person as something he just can't

6 live without.
Q. And so that was the theme of the episode?

8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Now, after this -- and I take this was for a
10 pitch? It wasn't yet decided whether or not this was a
1 s tory you were going to run wi th?
2

A.

This was -- I believe it was -- I don't know

1 precisely what the document -- you know, what the

14 document is from, but this is the initial pitch that we
1 S pi tched to the studio and the network.
16

Q.

And did they have -- what role did they have in

1 selecting whether or not this story would go forward at

18 that point?
19

A.

They to a limited extent have -- well, I mean

20 technically, they have yeah or nay power, but generally,

2 they don't exercise it if it's something that we are

22 you know, that we are interested in doing, but every

23 s tory has to be pi tched to them.
24

Q.

And at the top here where it says this story

5 will be written by Ricky Blitt, did you decide that the
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SETH MACFARLANE

Pa 24
1 would -- you know, he would do it on his own. We would
2 talk beforehand and decide what we thought were, you
3 know, the funniest jokes and whatnot and then we would

4 call them.
5

Q.

What was Fox i s reaction after you submitted the

6 first version of the script to standards and practices

7 for the Weinstein episode?
8 9

A.

Extreme anxiety, I suppose would be the

response.
Q.

10
11 12

And what were they anxious about?

A.
Q.

The con ten t .
What parts of the content -- what were their

13 main objections?
14

A.

They were worried that some of the comedy would

15 be viewed as offensive.
16
17

Q.

Which parts of the comedy? Usually, it's most of the show, but in this

A.

18 instance, they were particularly concerned about the

19 elements relating to the Jewish story.
20 21 22 23
24

Q.

And which elements?

A.

The fact that Max Weinstein was being portrayed

as God-like and somehow different from the average

person.
Q.

Did they request any changes?

25

A.

Yes.
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SETH MACFARLANE

25
1

Q.

What kinds of changes did they request?

2

A.

Generally, it was to make it more acceptable

3 for broadcast on a network.
4

Q.

And which ways - - what sorts of things did they

5 feel would make it more acceptable?
6

A.

They were looking for ways to make it less

7 sensitive to the Jewish community.
8

Q.

Do you rememer any of the ways that they

9 proposed making it more sensi ti ve?
o

A.

That would have been on one of their memos

1 specifically. No, I don't rememer.
12

Q.

Was the approval process with standards and

13 practices for the Weinstein episode, did that take
14 longer than typical for a "Family Guy" episode?
15

A.
Q.

Yes.
And would you say that the approval process was

16

17 more difficult than the typical process?
18

A.
Q.

Yes.
For the "Family Guy"?

19

20
21
22 anti

A.
Q.

Yes.
Do you believe the message of the episode is

semi tic?

23
24

A.
Q.

No.
And therefore, it wasn't intended to be

25 antisemi tic?
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SETH MACFARLANE

Pa 26
1

A.
Q.

It was not intended to be antisemitic.

2

And does the message have an overall message or

3 theme?
4

A.

At the end, Peter learns the lesson that

5 6
7

everyone is more or less the same and no group of people
is better or worse than any other.
Q.

In going back and forth with standards and

8 practices, did you give Linda any particular
9 justifications for the content that they were objecting

10 to?
11

MR. ZAVIN: Objection; only I think he

12 testified that David Zuckerman is the one who had the

13 contact with Linda.
14 When you say "you," do you mean him personally?
15 BY MR. FAKER:
16
7

Q.

Did you ever have any contact with Linda?

A.
Q.

Yes.
So and you also discussed -- I believe you

18

19 testified earlier that you and David discussed any of 20 the discussions that he would have with Linda based on

21 her comments; isn't that correct?
22

A.

As I recall, that was something we did for the

23 most part, not for every episode, but for the most part.
24

Q.

So are you aware of any justifications that you

25 or David gave to Linda for these items elements that she
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SETH MACFARLANE

27
was objecting to?

A. I don't recall specifically, only generally.
3
4

Q.

Wha t were they generally?

A.

That it's satire, it's -- you know, a spoof on

5 certain less enlightened cultural views.
6

Q.

So was the point of it to, you know, hold up

bigotry and antisemitism to ridicule?
8 9

Is that a fair characterization?

A.

Yes.

10 11
1

REDACTED

14

15

16

n
8

19

20
21

22 23
24
L
')

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SETH MACFARLANE

ge 39

Q. Well, the first run through -- the season two,

2 during season two.
3

A.
Q.

Ul timately, they declined to air the episode.

4

And when were you first told that it wasn't

5 going to be aired?

6 A. I don't rememer exactly, but I believe it
7 was I believe it was before we finished production,
8 but I don't rememer for sure.
9

Q.

And do you rememer who -- whether it was --

10 who was notified?

11 Was it you, personally, from Fox?
12

A.
Q.

I don't rememer.
Was the lyric "even though they killed my Lord"

13

14 ever changed during the production of the episode?
1

A.
Q.

There was an al terna te created.
And when did you decide to do that?
I don't remember.

16
17

A.
Q.

18

And which - - why did you create the al terna te

19 version?
20

A.

I don't rememer, exactly.

I believe it was to

1 find a way to preserve the song so that -- so that there
22

might be a chance that they would air the episode.

I

3 have some recollection of that.
24

Q.

Did a time come when the Weinstein episode was

25 first aired?
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SETH MACFARLANE

ge 41
shown on TBS and on CW in the syndication package since

2 then.
3 BY MR. FAKER:
4

Q.

Do you know roughly how many times it's been

5 shown by TBS, Cartoon Network?
6

A.
Q.

No idea.
Did Fox ever broadcast the episode?

7
8

A.
Q.

Yes.
When did that happen? It was sometime in the couple years between the

9

10

A.

11 show's cancellation and the order for new episodes.
12

Q.

Was it after Cartoon Network showed it?

13
14

A.
Q.

Yes.
Do you know why Fox changed their mind about

15 airing the episode?
16
17

A.
Q.

I don't know their exact reasons.

You never had any discussions with them about

18 that?
19

A.

I didn't.

I mean the show was suddenly

20 becoming successful in reruns and on DVO, and that was

21 the only episode that they had immediate access to that
22 had not aired on their network.
23

Q.

When did Fox decide to release the episode on

24 DVO?
25

A.

I don't know.

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SETH MACFARLANE

Pa 43
other than DVD?

A. I don't know.
e -,i

Q.

Have there been any downloads streaming?
Don't know.

4

A.

Q. Can you tell me what "Family Guy Live" is?
6

A.

"Family Guy Live" is a show that I and the rest

of the cast and usually a couple writers do

8 occasionally, generally at large venues, in which we
9 will read an episode with the full cast live on stage
o and turn it in to an evening, you know, an evening show.

1 We will do -- answer some questions and make
2 sort of a little variety show out of it, and that's in a

3 nutshell that's what it is.
14

Q.

When - - about how many times a year do you do

5 this?
6

A.

It's not an annual thing. On average, I would

say we have done it maybe -- there have been years where
8

we have done two or four performances and some where we have done none, but, you know, to even it out, maybe

19
o

once a year.
Q.
When was the first time you did a "Family Guy

21

2 Live"?
3

A.
Q.

I think it was at the Montreal Comedy Festival.

24

Do you rememer which year?
I don't, but I believe it was before the show
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A.

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fv¡i\C

t':

44
repremiered on Fox.
Q.

And you produced

in discovery you produced a

video recording of a "Family Guy Live" event in Montreal
in 2004.

Would that be the first one, to your knowledge?

A. Tha t I believe so, yeah.
Q. The" Family Guy Live" at the table reading part

of the program, have you ever done the entire Weinstein R
episode?
A. Yes.
Q. How many times?
A. In the live shows?
1

Q.

Yeah.
At least two. It may be more.

A.

I don't

rememer.
6

Q.

And have you ever done a performance of "I Need

17 A Jew" separate and apart from the episode live at one
18 of these "Family Guy Live" shows?

A. Yes.
o 2

Q.

Do you know how many times?
At least once.

A.
Q.

22

And is that recording of the Montreal show the

23 only video that you have of any of these "Family Guy

24 Live" programs?
5

A.

Yes.
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ETH rvJACFARLANE

Pag 4
1

Q.

The first time somebody had the idea to add the

song to the episode.

A. We had planned to use lyrics and music, yes.

Q. And did you have particular music in mind at
that stage?

A. We did.
Q. And what was the idea for the music?
A. At the time, we wanted to do -- we wanted to do
a song that was a parody of "When You Wish Upon a Star."

Q. So musically, you wanted to use music -- when
you say "parody," do you mean that you wanted __

musically you wanted if to be similar to music "When You
Wish Upon a Star"?

A. Ini tially, we wan ted to use the actual melody.

Q. When did that change?
A. When the clearance was denied.
Q. And who requested the clearance to use "When
You Wish Upon a Star"?

A. At the time, that would have gone through Ken
Dennis' office.

I don't rememer in that instance.

I

believe he was the one responsible for pushing for
dealing wi th the clearance.

Q. And who was Mr. Dennis?
A. He was our line producer.

Q. Right. Okay.
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SETH MACFARLANE

Pa 48
1

And do you rememer at what point in the script
stage that clearance was denied?

3

A.

Somewhere between the table draft and the

4 record.
Q. Prior to the clearance being denied -- let me
take a step back.

7 Who would have been involved in actually
8 producing the music part of the song, writing it?
C)

A.
Q.

At which?

o

Let's say at the beginning, at the beginning

phase.
1

A.

The music track would have been produced by, in

this case, Walter Murphy.
4

Q.

And when was the first time that you got Walter

Murphy involved in the "I Need a Jew" song?
6

A.

Immediately following the lyrics that were

1 written.
HJ
i C)

Q.

So prior to the clearance being denied?

A.

That, I don't rememer. Occasionally, he would

o do a temp track for us to have on hand but .
1

Q.

So when you wrote the lyrics to "I Need a Jew,"

were the lyrics written prior to the clearance being

3 denied?
24

A.

Yes.

Q. So those lyrics were written to essentially the
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SETH MACFARLANE

Pa 49
1 actual tune of ""When You Wish Upon a Star"" as far as

the structure of the lyrics?
3
4

A.
Q.

Yes.
After the clearance was denied, how did that

change your plans for the music for the song?

6 A. We decided that we still wanted to do the
7 parody. And so we decided to proceed but with a
8 different melody that evoked the original.
9 o

Q.

And who came up with that melody?
Wal ter Murphy.

A.
Q.

11

Did you -- who gave this assignment to Walter

12 Murphy to make these changes?
13
14

A.
Q.

That would have been David and I.
And what did you say to Mr. Murphy the first

15 time that you asked him to do that?
16

A.

I don't recall exactly what I said to him but

17 the instructions were to do a something that was not
18 ""When You Wish Upon a Star"" but would evoke that song.
19

Q.

Was Walter Murphy the only one who contributed

20 to the musical side of the song?
21 22

A.
Q.

At that stage, yes.

At any other stage did other people contribute?

23

A.

Well, I mean the orchestra played it

24 eventually, but as far as the composition stage, yes.
25

Q.

And who was involved in writing the lyrics?
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SETH MACFARLANE

Pa 51
1

Q.

Is the song meant to be antisemitic?

2 3
4

A.
Q.

No.
Wha t does the song make fun of?

A.
mean it

The song makes fun of a numer of things.

I

5 6

our version makes fun of the very saccharin,

sweet tone of the original song.

It's certainly one of

7 the most overtly sweet, wholesome songs ever written and

8 we were making fun of that.

9 We were -- aside from that, you know,
10 satirizing, you know, bigotry and people like Peter
11 Griffin, but we had also discussed at some point in the
12

room the

tha t the song would be making, you know

13 also serves as kind of a way to poke fun at Walt 14 Disney's reputation as an antisemite.
15

Q.

Were there any other things that the song was

6 making fun of?
17

A.

I mean there are, I suppose, different levels

18 of interpretation wi thin those points but that was __

19 that was our intent.
20

Q.

Tha t 's all of the categories of things you were
Uh-huh.
Of these four targets, if you will, that you

21 making fun of?
22

A.
Q.

23

24 have identified of the satire making fun, are any of
25 them more dominant than the other, more important to the
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SETH MACFARLANE

53
that I would hope they would pick up on all of those

2 things.
3

Q.

Turning first to Peter as being a target of the

4 joke f of the humor of the song, how exactly is the song

5 making fun of Peter?
6

A.

It's exposing his sort of backward bigotry.

7 It's making fun of his tendency to, you know, be sort of
8 a simpleton and to kind of put people in to - - you know,

9 he is an ignorant guy with a tendency to put people into

10 categories based on stereotypes. And in this instance,
11 we were making fun of the fact that he does this in kind
12 of an upside down, you know, hopefully fresh way.
13

Q.

And does the performance usually make fun of

14 Peter and his beliefs?
15

A.
Q.

Yes.
Are Peter's views usually meant to be taken

16

17 seriously in the series?
18

A.
Q.

I would certainly hope not. No, they're not.
During the standards and practices process, did

19

20 you ever discuss this justification for the song with
21 Linda or anybody else at Fox?
22

MR. ZAVIN: Objection as to what "this

23 justification. "
24

MR. FAKER: This justification of making fun

25 of Peter as a justification for the song.
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SETH MACFARLANE

Page 54
1

MR. ZAVIN: And objection; I'm not sure he

2 testified he ever talked to Linda.
3

MR. FAKER: He actually did testify that he

4 has at least on one or two occasions talked to Linda.
5

MR. ZAVIN:

I don't think he testified he

6 talked to Linda about thi s, bu t if he can answer it, he

7 is welcome to do it.
8

THE WITNESS: We did at some point discuss with

9 broadcast standards the fact that this was coming from a

10 character who -- you know, whose views are not

11 necessarily to be taken -- are not to be emulated.
12 BY MR. FAKER:
13

Q.

And is one of the purposes of the targets of

14 the joke is bigotry in general?
15

A.
Q.

Uh-huh.
Would the audience get that joke in the same

16

17 way as is that really an extension of the joke on Peter?
18

A.
Q.

I believe they would.

19

And, again, that was something that was

20 discussed with standards and practices as a reason to

21 justify the content of the joke?
22

A.
Q.

Was his? Making fun of bigotry and antisemitic or rather

23

24 Jewish stereotypes.
25

A.

Yes.
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55
1

Q.

Separate and apart from just Peter?

2
3

A.

Well, the fact that Peter is who he is, you

know, you can't really separate that, but that was

I

4 mean that was something that was discussed, the
5 satirical nature of the song as it relates to -- you
6

know, as it relates to Peter

I mean Brian wouldn't

7 sing that version of the song.
8

Q.

Now, turning to the making fun of the saccharin

9 nature of "When You Wish Upon a Star," how exactly does

10 the song make fun of that?
11

A.

Well, it takes it and turns it upside down. I

12 mean it takes an aggressively sweet tune -- song, and
3 turns it on its ear and puts a spin on it that is most

14 certainly not sweet or saccharin.
15

Q.

And how does it do that?

16

A.

By -- with a set of lyrics that are

17 substantially edgier, to say the least, than the 18 original.
19

Q.

Is there any other way that "I Need a Jew"

20 makes fun of the original "When You Wish Upon a Star"?
21

A.

I have hit on the key satirical points that we

22 were making.
23

Q.

Are there any other specifically, though, with

24 making fun of "When You Wish Upon a Star"?
25

A.

Not that I recall that we have intended.

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57

1 question.

2 (The previous question was read back

3 by the court reporter as follows:
4

"QUESTION:

In dealing wi th

5

standards and practices, was this
justification, "this justification"

6
7 8

being making fun of "When You Wish

Upon a Star", was that ever discussed
wi th Fox as a justification for the

9

10
11

song?" )
THE WITNESS : That, I don't rememer.

12 BY MR. FAKER:
13

Q.

You don't have a specific recollection of that

14 being put forward to them?
15

A.

They -- they wouldn't have been involved

16 wi th -- their concern was not whether the song you 17 know, the issues relating to the song, itself. Their 18 issues were content. And that -- no, that was not a
19 I don't rememer, but that's not a conversation that
20 would have come up wi th them.
21
22

Q.

So as far as you know, that conversation never

came up.
A.
Q.

23
24

Not that I rememer.

Okay. As far as Walt Disney's reputation as an
MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS

25 antisemite, how exactly does the song make fun of his

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SETH MACFARLANE

P 58
repu ta tion? 2 How does the song "I Need A Jew" make fun of
3 his reputation?
4

A.

Well, I mean that song is the anthem for the --

5 I assume willingly so for the Disney Corporation. And
6 it's sort of a great irony that Walt Disney, himself,
7 you know, has this reputation as an anti

semi te. And I

8 mean the simplest terms, that's -- that would be my

9 answer.
10 It's -- that song is synonymous with Disney in
11 many, many ways, and, you know, the song from Peter's

12 point of view takes a very -- while not necessarily
13 you know, part of the joke was to take the idea of

14 bigotry, and in this case antisemitism, and turn it on
15 its ear. He still subscribes to a stereotype about

16 Jewish people, and obviously, in the minds of viewers,

17 hopefully any stereotype is negative.

18 So from Peter's point of view, it is in his
19 backward way, I suppose you could say, anti

semi tic, but

20 in the simplest terms, this is the anthem for Walt

21 Disney. Walt Disney, you know, has this reputation of
22

being an antisemite and the song by

you know, by
well, makes fun

23

making fun -- by making fun of that

24 of that through Peter.
25

Q.

But where is the link to Walt Disney, the
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59
1 individual, in the song?
2

A.

Well, the song, itself, as the anthem for -- I

3 mean "When You Wish Upon a Star," when you hear that you

4 think Disney.
5

Q.

Do you think the Disney Company or do you think

6 Walt Disney, the individual?
7

A.

I mean ei ther / or.

I mean most likely you

8 think -- I don't know. I am not sure. That would
9 depend on the individual.
10
11
2 3

Q.

What do you
When

think?

A.
Q.

I hear the song?
Do you

Yeah.

think the

Walt Disney Company?

A.
Q.

Yeah, I
Do you

14

think of the Walt Disney Company. believe that the public widely perceives

15 the Walt Disney Company as being antisemitic?
16

A.

I mean I rememer living back in Connecticut

17 before I came out here -- I mean I had heard that rumor,

18 you know, when I was young.
19

Q.

That the Walt Disney Company was antisemitic?

20
21

A.
Q.

That Walt Disney was an antisemite.
I am talking specifically now about the Walt

22 Disney Company.

23 Have you heard rumors that the Walt Disney
24 Company was antisemitic?
25

A.

No. A lots of the anima tors call it
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60
1 "mousewi tz" but I mean -- no, I mean as far as -2 3
4

Q.

The company itself?
-- their practices?

A.
Q.

Right.
I mean I know nothing about that.

5 6

A.
Q.

So as far as the "I Need A Jew" song and

7 commenting on Walt Disney, the man's, antisemitism, how

8 exactly does the audience get that joke?
9

A.

Well, with regard to the Disney Corporation, I

10 mean the man was the company in so many ways. I mean
11 his name is on everything, his signature is on
12

everything, Walt Disney.

If you want to point to one of

13 the most visible heads of a company -- I mean he was

14 that company. I mean the Disney Corporation has his
15 name on it. And you know, they have this very wholesome

16 reputation, but looking back, it's kind of ironic that
17 its tarted wi th a guy whom they all revere who was __

8 who had a spotty reputation in this regard.
19

Q.

And what do you base your belief on that

20 reputation on?
21 22

A.
Q.

I could say common belief.
Wha t do you mean by "common belief"?

23
24

A.
Q.

Well
Are you saying it's just something you heard

25 from time to time?
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Page 61
1

A.

Yeah, you know, like saying J. Edgar Hoover was
It's just something that is in the

2

a cross dresser.

3 ether of pop cuI ture .
4

Q.

And do you know -- when was the last time Walt

5 Disney, the man, was the head of the Walt Disney

6 Company?

7 Do you know when that stopped?
8

A.
Q.

I don't.

9

Wha t does the audience have to know in order to

10
11 12

get that joke
A.

out of

the

"I Need A Jew"

song?

They have to know

of this
the common

13
14

that -- they have to be aware of this piece of -- they have to be aware of pop cultural belief that Walt Disney was an

antisemite.
Q.

15

They have to bring that to the song, right,

16 because it's not explicitly referenced anywhere in the

17 song, is it?
18
9

A.
Q.

No.
Do they have to also bring to the song an

20 association of the song with Walt Disney, the

21 individual?

22 A. In order to get that joke, yeah.
23 Q. On other occasions you have made fun of Walt
24 Disney's this rumor of Walt Disney's antisemitism,

25 have you not?
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Page 62
1

A.
Q.

Yes.
How have you done that in other instances?

2 3

A.

There was -- there was a cut-away gag in which

4 Wal t Disney, referring to the less -- less reputable

5 rumor I think that his body was cryogenically frozen
6 there is a gag in which it's 30 years from now and they

7 open his cryogenic suspension chamer and he sits up and
8 says "Are the Jews gone yet," and the doctor says "no"

9 and he says, "Put me back in."
10
1

Q.

Have you done it on any other occasions?
Tha t 's the - - by "i t" you mean?

A.
Q.

12

Making a reference in a joke about Walt

13 Disney's alleged anti

semi tism?
That's the only other instance.

14

A.
Q.

15

Did you ever discuss this target of the joke,

16 Walt Disney's antisemitism, with -- did you or David, to
1 the extent you are aware of it, ever discuss this
18 justification with Fox with respect to, you know, that

19 being the target of the joke during the standards and

20 practices?
21 22

A.
Q.

No.
Did you ever discuss that purpose for the joke

23 with anyone else?
24

A.
Q.

Yes.
With whom?

25

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Fa 63
1

A.

At some point it was discussed in the -- wi thin

2 the writers room.
3
4

Q.

And what point was that?

A.

As we were -- I mean at some point during or

5 after the song was written, it was discussed in the

6 wri tes room that this is -- you know, this is kind of an
7 ironic subtext that hopefully enriches the parody.
8

Q.

Do you rememer whether it was during or after

9 the time that the lyrics were written?
o

A.

I believe it was after. I mean

I am sorry.

11
12

Let me go back.
don't know.

It was -- it was during or after.

I

I can't give you a specific answer.

13
14

Q.

Do you rememer the specific conversation?
I don't.

A.

I remember generally there being some

15 discussion that this was -- that because of the nature

16 of this episode, it was a nice, little ironic twist that
17 this -- you know, we were using that -- that we were,

18 you know, doing a joke on this song.
19

Q.

And as far as the purpose of making fun of the

20 saccharin nature of the original, did you ever discuss
21 that with anyone else?
22

A.

Not that I rememer.

I mean - - you mean

23 outside the writers room?
24

Q.

Let's start with outside the writers room,

25 sure.
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Page 70

1 thought you were referring to the actual orchestral
2 arrangemen ts .
3

Q.

I thought so. Tha t's why I wan ted to make sure

4 the testimony was clear by showing it to you. That's

fine.
6

7
8

REDACTED

9

10 11 12

4

15
fi

17 18

20

21
22

23
24

25

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EXHIBIT PL 21

EXHIBIT FILED WITH THE COURT UNDER SEAL PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER