Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 1020

Administrative Motion to File Under Seal Documents Under Seal Re Apples Opposition To Samsungs Motion For Summary Judgment filed by Apple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Proposed Order, #2 Declaration Of Jason R. Bartlett In Support Of Apples Opposition To Samsungs Motion For Summary Judgment, #3 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 8, #4 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 9, #5 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 10, #6 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 11, #7 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 17, #8 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 18, #9 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 19, #10 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 23, #11 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 26, #12 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 30, #13 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 31, #14 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 32, #15 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 53, #16 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 54, #17 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 55, #18 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 57, #19 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 58, #20 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 59, #21 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 60, #22 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 61, #23 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 62, #24 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 64, #25 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 67, #26 Bartlett Decl. Ex. 80)(Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 6/1/2012)

Exhibit 62

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION

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APPLE INC., A CALIFORNIA
CORPORATION,
PLAINTIFF,

:
:
:

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:
: CASE NO.
: 11-CV-01846-LHK
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS, CO.,
:
LTD., A KOREAN BUSINESS
:
ENTITY; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS :
AMERICA, INC., A NEW YORK
:
CORPORATION; SAMSUNG
:
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA, :
LLC, A DELAWARE LIMITED
:
LIABILITY COMPANY,
:
VS.

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DEFENDANTS
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DEPOSITION OF ANDRIES VAN DAM, an Expert
Witness in the above-entitled cause, taken on
behalf of the Plaintiff, before Barbara
Warner, RPR, Notary Public in and for the
State of Rhode Island, at the offices of
Allied Court Reporters, 115 Phenix Avenue,
Cranston, RI, on September 14, 2011
at 9:30 A.M.

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Job Number: 41901
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APPEARANCES:
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FOR THE PLAINTIFF APPLE INC.:
MORRISON & FOERSTER
BY: RICHARD S.J. HUNG, ESQ.
BY: DEOK KEUN MATTHEW AHN, ESQ.
425 MARKET STREET
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94105

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INDEX
WITNESS

PAGE

ANDRIES VAN DAM
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9

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EXAMINATION BY MR. HUNG............ 6
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FOR THE DEFENDANTS SAMSUNG:
QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART OLIVER & HEDGES
BY: TODD M. BRIGGS, ESQ.
BY: AARON KAUFMAN, ESQ.
555 TWIN DOLPHIN DRIVE
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA 94065

EXHIBITS
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DESCRIPTION
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PAGE

EXHIBIT 129 NOTICE OF DEPOSITION
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EXHIBIT 130 DECLARATION OF ANDRIES
VAN DAM
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ALSO PRESENT:
MIKE HENRIQUES, VIDEOGRAPHER

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EXHIBIT 131 LONG VERSION OF VAN DAM
CV
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EXHIBIT 132 iPAQ
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EXHIBIT 133 CHECKERBOARD DOCUMENT
EXHIBIT 134 EXHIBIT A TO THE BEDERSON
DECLARATION
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EXHIBIT 135 SONY DEVICE

159

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EXHIBIT 136 EXHIBIT 4 TO THE VAN DAM
DECLARATION
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EXHIBIT 137 BATES NUMBERS 1156

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EXHIBITS
DESCRIPTION
PAGE
EXHIBIT 138 EXHIBIT 5 TO THE VAN DAM
DECLARATION
176

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EXHIBIT 139 VAN DEN HOVEN REFERENCE 177
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122

EXHIBIT 140 READING AND WRITING THE
ELECTRONIC BOOK
184
EXHIBIT 141 SOURCE CODE MODULE
199

*EXHIBITS 132 AND 135 RETAINED BY THE
ATTORNEYS.

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(DEPOSITION COMMENCED AT 9:54 A.M.)
ANDRES VAN DAM
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
start of the tape labeled number 1 of the
videotaped deposition of Andries van Dam in
the matter of Apple Inc., versus Samsung
Electronics Company, Limited, in the United
States District Court, Northern District of
California, San Jose Division. The
deposition is being held at Allied Court
Reporters, 115 Phenix Avenue, Cranston, Rhode
Island on September 14, 2011 at approximately
9:54 a.m.
My name is Mike Henriques. I am
the legal video specialist from TSG
Reporting, Inc., headquarted at 747 Third
Avenue, New York, New York. The court
reporter is Barbara Warner in association
with TSG Reporting. And if counsel could
please introduce themselves.
MR. HUNG: Richard Hung of
Morrison & Foerster for Apple Inc. With me
today is Matthew Ahn, also of Morrison &
Foerster.
MR. BRIGGS: Todd Briggs from

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Quinn Emanuel for Samsung and the witness.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: If the court
reporter could please swear in the witness.
ANDRIES VAN DAM
Being duly sworn, deposes and
testifies as follows:
THE REPORTER: Would you state
your name and spell your last name for the
record.
THE WITNESS: Andries van Dam, in
this country Andy van Dam, V-A-N D-A-M, as in
Mary.
(EXHIBITS 129, 130 AND 131 MARKED FOR
IDENTIFICATION)
EXAMINATION BY MR. HUNG
Q. Good morning.
A. Good morning.
Q. You have before you, Dr. van Dam, the notice
of deposition in this case. Have you seen
that notice before?
A. I believe I have.
Q. It has been marked as Exhibit 129. You
understand that you are here today appearing
pursuant to this notice, correct?
A. I do.

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Q. I believe you have been deposed previously,
right?
A. I have been.
Q. How many times?
A. Certainly twice, possibly three times, but
I don't remember.
Q. Do you recall the circumstances of those
prior depositions?
A. They were part of litigation. One was a
patent case, and the other was a trade secret
case. Those are the ones I remember. There
probably was a third patent case, as well.
Q. I want to start by just understanding what
you did to prepare for your deposition today?
A. Sure.
Q. I understand you are here on behalf of
Samsung Electronics, correct?
A. Sorry.
Q. You are here on behalf of Samsung
Electronics?
A. Correct.
Q. What did you do to prepare for your
deposition today?
A. I was given and read a number of
references, including patents. I remembered

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from my own work various references that I
thought might have bearing on the case. And
there were a number of work products, drafts
of work products, that I also went over. And
of course the usual number of conversations
both in person, face to face, and via
telephone with counsel.
Q. Let me go back a second. I know you have
been deposed before, but I will quickly
establish a couple of rules that will help
both of us.
A. Certainly.
Q. One is I will try hard not to talk over you,
and if you could do the same for me. That
would really help out the court reporter.
A. Absolutely.
Q. The second thing I will ask is that I will
try to ask you clear questions. If you don't
ask me to clarify, I'll assume you understood
and that will be great.
A. Absolutely.
Q. You mentioned you took a look at some
patents, do you recall what patents those
were?
A. Obviously I reviewed in great detail the

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Bas Ording patent at issue, 381. I also
looked at the several patents that I cite in
my declaration, in particular Lira and Van
Den Hoven.
Q. Do you recall looking at any other patents to
prepare for today's deposition?
A. Probably I looked at but did not study in
great detail other materials.
Q. What about references, you referred to
various references?
A. Some of the literature references I
remembered, some of them were found. I did
not take the time to reread them in detail
because for the most relevant ones, I knew
what they were about.
Q. You also referred to conversations with
counsel?
A. Um-hum.
Q. And I don't want to invade any work product
between you and your counsel, or certainly
your counsel's work product. I did want to
get a better sense of when those
conversations occurred and how long they
were?
A. I believe they started early July when the

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detect, and I'm going to scroll in the
vertical direction upwards, and here I have a
different portion, which is the second
portion.
And now I'm going to scroll a
little more and there's even less of the mail
file showing. In fact, there is area below
Catherine Thompson, which is white and which
is differentiated from Catherine Thompson by
a very thin, single pixel lines of
demarcation.
Q. Could you hold that up? Thank you.
A. Now, when I let go, it snaps back. The
movement is subtle and I don't know whether
you caught it. Do you want me to repeat it?
Q. Please.
A. Okay. So I'm near the edge for my
starting position, the bottom edge of the
mail file. I'm not going to scroll up like
so until I am just at Sarah Carlson, like so.
And now when I let go, it bounces back and I
see yet a different view of the mail file
where there is nothing showing beyond the
edge that I saw previously.
I have the bottom of the mail file

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in its entirety and it is different from
first, second and third portions.
Q. What if we exceed the threshold?
A. If we exceed the threshold, then we don't
get the bounce-back effect. There is no
reversing of the direction or different
direction, which is all the claim calls for,
but bounce-back typically has this notion of
the opposite direction. You are simply going
to scroll the file so that most of it and
eventually all of it becomes this gray no
man's land.
Q. In which case there is no snap-back, correct?
A. There is no snap-back in any of the prior
art, or I believe the patent itself and its
specification if you go beyond a certain
threshold.
Q. Looking at the blue button with the blue
bar -A. That's the chrome I was referring to
earlier.
Q. That chrome is adjustable on the 1950,
correct?
A. It is. Some of it is. In particular, in
the E-mail application, I can move it up and

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down by moving the blue chrome button and
having it overlay a different header to
indicate selection. But it's not material to
the demonstration because it isn't part of
the electronic document.
Q. If you return to the E-mail list, and you
drag the chrome all the way to the top of the
E-mail list -A. I haven't done that, but let's see if we
can do that. Like so?
Q. Yes. And if you pull the E-mail list down?
A. If I pull the E-mail list down, like so.
Q. And now -- that's perfect.
A. Like so. Now, we have this border region
beyond the electronic document at the top.
Q. Could you actually help me by lowering the
chrome slightly, maybe to a quarter of the
screen?
A. Um-hum. On top of Ben Bederson, is that
where you would like it?
Q. That would be perfect. Can you scroll the
list up by, perhaps, so it fills the entire
screen? Now, if you take the list and you
move the list by less than the threshold
amount, it will only snap to a given object

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in the list, correct?
A. I believe that to be the case. Let's just
move it a little, and it snapped back.
Q. And that is true -- let me start again. When
you were at the very bottom of the list, when
it reached what you referred to as the edge,
the threshold amount was based on the size of
the object, correct, it's related to the size
of the object?
MR. BRIGGS: Objection.
Foundation.
A. I believe it's certainly
application-dependent, but size of object,
what do you mean by object in this case?
Q. For example, when you looked at the source
code, do you recall a function known as
snap-to-object?
A. That sounds familiar, but I can't recall
the specifics.
Q. Could you rehighlight the screen, or turn it
back on?
A. Yes.
Q. When you are moving the list on the 1950 with
LaunchTile, isn't it true that when you
remove the stylist what, in fact, occurs is

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about it, including the bounce-back and the
whole attraction and repulsion grid alignment
system that they used in it. But on such an
early stage product as the iPAQ, or, for that
matter, the Sony device, it's not that
successful because the processor is too slow.
There is too little memory. The touchscreen
does not have adequate resolution. The
screen does not have adequate resolution. So
the user experience on those devices with
software from five years ago can't be
directly compared to a modern device with its
resolution and its image quality. It had a
far greater amount of time that was spent in
engineering it.
Q. Have you owned prior versions of the iPhone?
A. I owned the first iPhone, too, whatever
that model number is, maybe a 3. Is that
what the first release was, an iPhone 3?
Q. Did you own an iPhone in 2007?
A. No. I'm not an early adopter.
Q. Do you believe that Apple innovated a number
of user interface technologies in its iPhones
that you used?
MR. BRIGGS: Objection. Vague.

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Lacks foundation.
A. We are now so far afield. What do you
mean by innovate and so on? Apple knows
goods industrial design. It knows how to
make a product that is aesthetically pleasing
and attractive and nice to use. But as I
said, there are many features of the iPhone I
don't like. By the way, I carry a very
vanilla cell phone because I prefer its
interface to the iPhone's interface, so
that's one example where I think improvement
could be made. So overall, it's a successful
product because it deserves to be.
If you say that is the hallmark of
innovation I would say, okay, they innovated.
Certainly in terms of the UI, the quality of
the image, the ease-of-use features, for the
most part, it's very successful.
MR. HUNG: Mr. Briggs, I
understand that you and I have had a dispute
today, and also Dr. van Dam, as to the scope
of his opinions or not with respect to the
hypothetical device that we were going to
show Dr. van Dam. I understand that we agree
to disagree at this point. If there is

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follow-up, there is follow-up. But I
appreciate your time, Dr. van Dam. And we
are happy to close the deposition now.
MR. BRIGGS: Great. Thanks.
THE WITNESS: Very good. Thank
you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 6 p.m.,
we are off the record. This concludes the
videotaped deposition of Andries van Dam on
September 14, 2011.
(DEPOSITION CONCLUDED AT 6:00 P.M.)

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CERTIFICATE
I, Barbara Warner, a Notary Public in
and for the State of Rhode Island, duly
commissioned and qualified to administer
oaths, do hereby certify that the foreging
Deposition of Andries van Dam, a Witness in
the above-entitled cause, was taken before me
on behalf of the Plaintiff, at the offices of
Allied Court Reporters, 115 Phenix Avenue,
Cranston, Rhode Island on September 14, 2011
at 9:30 A.M.; that previous to examination of
said witness, who was of lawful age, he was
first sworn by me and duly cautioned to
testify to the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, and that he thereupon
testified in the foregoing manner as set out
in the aforesaid transcript.
I further testify that the foregoing
Deposition was taken down by me in machine
shorthand and was later transcribed by
computer, and that the foregoing Deposition
is a true and accurate record of the
testimony of said witness.

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Pursuant to Rules 5(b) and 30(f) of the
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, original
transcripts shall not be filed in Court;
therefore, the original is delivered to and
retained by Plaintiff's attorney, Richard
S.J. Hung, Esquire.
Correction and signature pages were sent
to Plaintiff's Counsel, Todd M. Briggs.

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IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
my hand and seal this 15th day of September,
2011.

__________________________________________
BARBARA WARNER, NOTARY PUBLIC/CERTIFIED
COURT REPORTER

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