Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 1384

Unredacted Exhibits to Arnold Declaration ISO Samsung's MSJ by Samsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC(a Delaware limited liability company) re 1256 Order on Administrative Motion to File Under Seal, (Dkt. Nos. 930, 945) (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 46 to Arnold, # 2 Exhibit 47 to Arnold, # 3 Exhibit 48 to Arnold, # 4 Exhibit 49 to Arnold, # 5 Exhibit 50 to Arnold, # 6 Exhibit 51 to Arnold, # 7 Exhibit 52 to Arnold, # 8 Exhibit 54 to Arnold, # 9 Exhibit 55 to Arnold, # 10 Exhibit 56 to Arnold, # 11 Exhibit 57 to Arnold, # 12 Exhibit 58 to Arnold, # 13 Exhibit 60 to Arnold, # 14 Exhibit 63 to Arnold, # 15 Exhibit 64 to Arnold, # 16 Exhibit 66 to Arnold, # 17 Exhibit 68 to Arnold, # 18 Exhibit 69 to Arnold, # 19 Exhibit 71 to Arnold, # 20 Exhibit 73 to Arnold, # 21 Exhibit 74 to Arnold, # 22 Exhibit 75 to Arnold, # 23 Exhibit 76 to Arnold, # 24 Exhibit 77 to Arnold, # 25 Exhibit 78 to Arnold, # 26 Exhibit 79 to Arnold, # 27 Exhibit 80 to Arnold, # 28 Exhibit 81 to Arnold, # 29 Exhibit 82 to Arnold)(Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 7/26/2012) Modified text on 7/27/2012 (dhm, COURT STAFF).

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UNITED STATES INTERNATIONAL TRADE COMMISSION

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WASHINGTON, D.C.

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In the Matter of:
Investigation No.

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CERTAIN ELECTRONIC DIGITAL
MEDIA DEVICES AND COMPONENTS

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337-TA-796

THEREOF

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CONFIDENTIAL -- ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
PURSUANT TO THE PROTECTIVE ORDER

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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF FLETCHER R. ROTHKOPF

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Redwood Shores, California

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Thursday, April 19, 2012

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REPORTED BY:

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CYNTHIA MANNING, CSR No. 7645, CLR, CCRR

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JOB NO. 48527
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Q.

Okay.

Do you recall any discussions

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discussing product design risks with using a

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cover glass configuration where the top surface

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of the cover glass is curved?

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6

A.

Are we talking just about the edges

being curved?

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Q.

Top surface being curved in any manner.

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A.

Product design.

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What is a product

design consideration?
Q.

Well, my question was -- I'm talking

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about product design risks, so let me just

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reframe the question.

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A.

Okay.

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Q.

Do you recall any discussions about the

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product design risks associated with using a

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cover glass configuration where the top surface

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is curved in either of the ways that you've

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described?

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MR. OVERSON:

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MR. KIDMAN:

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Objection; vague.
Let me just clear it up.

BY MR. KIDMAN:
Q.

You've talked about cover glass

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configurations where the entire top surface is

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curved and then cover glass configurations where

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the top -- where the edges of the top surface are
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curved; correct?
A.

Well, I mostly talked about not seeing

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configurations where the entire cover glass was

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curved on an iPhone or iPod Touch, so not really

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correct.

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7

Q.

Let me just -- let me just back

up then.

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9

Okay.

Do you recall any discussions about
product design risks with using cover glass where

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the top surface is curved in connection with --

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with any product at Apple?

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A.

Would a reliability risk be considered

a product design risk?
Q.

Well, you've -- you're familiar with

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the term "product design risk" or "PD risk";

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correct?

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

It's a term that you've used in updates

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that you give concerning devices like the iPod

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Touch; correct?

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

And when you use that term "product

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design risk," you -- you include reliability

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result risk; correct?

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A.

Yes.
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Q.

Okay.

So using that definition of "PD

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risk" or "product design risk" that you've used

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in update documents at Apple, using that

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definition of "product design risk," do you

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recall any discussions about any product design

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risks associated with cover glass configuration

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where the top surface is curved?

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A.

If I -- if I include reliability and

manufacturing and yield risk and those kinds of

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things and PD risks, which in those updates I

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write I do, then yes.

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Q.

Okay.

And what do you recall being

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discussed about product design risks as you've

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used that term in connection with using cover

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glass where the top surface is curved?

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A.

I recall yield risks, difficulty in

manufacturing some of those curved glasses.

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Q.

Anything else?

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A.

Not specifically related to the glass

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being curved.
Q.

I can't remember anything else.

When you say not specifically relating

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to the glass being curved, do you recall any

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discussions about PD risks with using a curved

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configuration where the curved configuration

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contributed in some way to the -- to the PD risk?
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A.

In those considerations where the glass

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was curved and proud of the rest of the unit or

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above the rest of the unit, yes.

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Q.

And -- and so you're saying that you

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recall the discussion of PD risks with curved

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cover glass and then -- and then in addition, a

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discussion of PD risks where the curve -- where

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the cover glass sat above -- noticeably above the

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edge of the device; is that correct?

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A.

In some cases we consider the glass

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being above the edge of the device to be a risk

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in itself.

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Q.

And what was the -- what was the risk

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with the glass sitting above the edge of the

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device itself?

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A.

The risk is that the edges of the glass

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are more likely to contact the ground or anything

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else in the normal use of the device or abusive

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cases also.

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Q.

And does that have an impact on

failure -- failure rates?
A.

In some cases it has in the reliability

test failure rates.
Q.

And do you recall any discussions --

well, strike that.
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yield risks that you've told me about?

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A.

They're pretty much one and the same,

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Q.

Is there any --

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A.

Difficult manufacturing processes lead

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yep.

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to sometimes low-yield until you have them

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figured out, so those remain as risks.

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MR. KIDMAN:

Let's mark the next

document as Exhibit 2.

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(Deposition Exhibit 2 was marked for

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identification)

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MR. KIDMAN:

And for the record,

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Exhibit 2 is a multipage documents Bates-labeled

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APLNDC0002455740 through 2455745.

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THE WITNESS:

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document.)

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(Witness reviewing

BY MR. KIDMAN:

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Q.

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review this.

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Have you seen any part of this -- this document

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before?

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A.

Give me one minute.

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Q.

Sure.

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A.

I don't think I've seen any part of

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this before.

And, Mr. Rothkopf, take a moment to
My first question is going to be:

I don't remember seeing it now.
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2

Q.

Okay.

And particularly, if you look at

the third page of the document --

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A.

Mm-hmm, yes.

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Q.

-- there is a chart there.

It's got

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some columns at the top.

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Diagram."

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next column says "Time to Market (Ranked)."

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then the next column is "Grape Risks."

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next column is "PD Risks."

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Do you see that?

One says "Layout

The next column says "Z Stack."

The
And

And the

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A.

Yes, I do.

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Q.

You don't recall having seen this --

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this chart before?

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A.

No.

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Q.

Do you recall there being any

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discussion about increased cost using cover glass

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configurations where the top surface or any part

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of the top surface is curved as opposed to the

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glass being flat?

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

What do you recall about that?

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A.

I recall that due to the yield risks

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associated with the curved surfaces, you see an

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increased cost as a result of those.

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piece of glass you throw away, you basically have
TSG Reporting - Worldwide

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So every

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to pay for even though you don't get to ship them

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to a customer.

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In addition, the processing time for

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some of the curved glass configurations was

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longer than a flat glass configuration.

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Q.

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to the cost?

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A.

Correct.

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Q.

Do you recall any discussion in

And so the longer processing time adds

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connection with any curved cover glass

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configurations, meaning that the top surface of

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the cover glass is curved or some portion of the

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top surface of the cover glass is curved, any

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discussions concerning any difficulties with the

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operation of the -- the touch sensor?

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A.

Not specifically relating to the glass

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being curved, but I can see some of those risks

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highlighted in the document that you put in front

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of me here.

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Q.

And where is that?

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A.

Under the column labeled "Grape Risks"

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on the third page of the document.
Q.

And when you say those risks are not

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specifically -- specifically relating to the

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cover glass being curved, is the discussion of
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grape risks related to the cover glass, cover

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glass being curved so?

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A.

So I hadn't previously heard of

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risks -- these type of -- these so-called grape

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risks here related to the cover glass being

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curved, but now, you know, I've read this entire

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column, so now I have -- I know what's on this

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document for the most part.

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Q.

Independent --

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A.

When I say -- sorry.

When I say I know

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what's on this document, I mean only because now

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I have seen it in front of me and I have it in

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front of me.

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Q.

Independent of this document, have you

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heard any discussion concerning any of the things

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that have been identified in this document as

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grape risks in connection with using curved cover

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glass configurations?

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A.

So some of these risks are -- look to

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be somewhat general and could also apply to cover

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glass configurations that weren't curved, and so

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I've seen some of them before in that context,

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but not in the context of specifically this is a

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risk because the cover glass is curved.

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Q.

Now, at least one version of the iPod
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glass manufacturing, but they are very difficult

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to see with the naked eye that could be curved to

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be curved, so --

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Q.

Okay.

So when we're talking about the

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fourth and fifth generation, iPod Nano and we're

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talking about cover glass that's curved on the

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top surface, we're talking about cover glass

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that's visibly curved on -- on the top surface

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and that was the design intent; is that correct?

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A.

Correct, yes.

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Q.

And you were involved from that product

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development perspective with both the fourth and

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fifth generation iPod Nano; correct?

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A.

Really just the fourth.

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Q.

And what was your involvement with the

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fourth generation iPod Nano?
A.

I designed some of the parts inside of

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it and I designed some of the overall

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architecture of the device as far as the

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mechanical parts of the architecture and

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components go.

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Q.

And how is the cover glass on the sixth

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generation iPod Nano different from the cover

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glass configuration on the fourth and fifth

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generations?
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A.

The sixth generation iPod Nano is flat

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on both sides, so there is no intentional design

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element that makes it curved.

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Q.

And was there an additional cost

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associated with using the curved cover glass on

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the fourth and fifth generation iPod Nanos?

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A.

I don't know.

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Q.

Do you recall seeing any -- any

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documents that discussed an additional cost
related to the use of the curved cover glass?
A.

I don't specifically recall seeing

documents related to that.
Q.

Do you recall generally there being any

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discussion about there being an additional cost

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associated with using the curved cover glass on

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either the fourth or fifth generation iPod Nano?

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A.

Generally, yes, I can -- I can remember

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some people talking about that it might be more

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expensive, but I can't -- only generally.

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can't remember exactly what documents were

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generated or anything like that.

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Q.

I

And was that additional expense related

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to the higher -- I'm sorry, the yield risks and

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the manufacturing difficulty that you described

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earlier?
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A.

I don't know if it was related to the

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yield risks or the higher processing time or the

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larger amount of bulk material required.

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three of those could contribute.

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Q.

Any

And when you say "larger amount of bulk

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material required," what -- what are you

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referring to?

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9

A.

The overall volume of the piece of

glass that you start with before you make it into

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a curved piece of glass, in the center of the

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glass, sort of at the apex of the curve, if you

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will, those products are pretty thick, so it

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takes a lot of -- a thick sheet of glass going in

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and in some cases I know we pay for glass per

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square or cubic meter, kind of per weight, so it

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could have been more expensive because of that,

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just requiring more raw material input to the

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process.

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Q.

And why is -- on that curved

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configuration, why is the glass thicker in the

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center?

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A.

That curved configuration -- why is it

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thicker in the center?

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shell kind of shape where the thickness is even

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and the glass is bent, if you will, you start

So as opposed to being a

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with a piece of glass that's as thick as the apex

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and you remove material on the curved sections.

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So what you end up is towards the edges of the

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glass, it's thin and towards the center it's

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thick.

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a piece off of it.

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Kind of like if you took a sphere and cut

Q.

And why is that the process that's used

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to create the curvature as opposed to, as you

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said, it just being a shell with a -- kind of a

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constant thickness?

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A.

It may be possible to do it either way,

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so I don't know exactly -- I don't know exactly

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why.

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it the other way if we had a motivation for doing

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it the other way.

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It's possible.

Q.

We probably could have done

And do you have any understanding as to

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why it was done the way it was done where the --

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you start with a thicker piece of material and --

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and remove material from -- from the edges as

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opposed to creating that shell with the constant

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thickness?

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

And what's your understanding in that

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regard?

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A.

Creating a shell with a constant
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