Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 973

Declaration of Cyndi Wheeler in Support of #930 Administrative Motion to File Under Seal Samsung's Motion for Summary Judgment filed byApple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit 1, #2 Exhibit 2, #3 Exhibit 3, #4 Exhibit 4, #5 Exhibit 5, #6 Exhibit 6, #7 Exhibit 7, #8 Exhibit 8, #9 Exhibit 9, #10 Exhibit 10, #11 Exhibit 11, #12 Exhibit 12, #13 Exhibit 13, #14 Exhibit 14, #15 Exhibit 15, #16 Exhibit 16, #17 Exhibit 17, #18 Declaration Of Mark D. Selwyn In Support Of Samsungs Administrative Motion To File Documents Under Seal Re Samsungs Motion For Summary Judgment, #19 Proposed Order [Proposed] Order Granting Samsungs Administrative Motion To File Documents Under Seal Re Samsungs Motion For Summary Judgment)(Related document(s) #930 ) (Bartlett, Jason) (Filed on 5/24/2012)

Exhibit 12

EXHIBIT 9
FILED UNDER SEAL

Confidential Attorneys' Eyes Only

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION

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APPLE INC., a California
corporation,

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Plaintiff,
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vs.

CASE NO.

11-cv-01846-LHK

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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., a Korean business
entity; SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS
AMERICA,INC., a New York
corporation; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMERICA,
LLC, a Delaware limited
liability company,
Defendants.
____________________________/

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C O N F I D E N T I A L
A T T O R N E Y S E Y E S O N L Y

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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF BRIAN Q. HUPPI
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2011

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BY: ANDREA M. IGNACIO HOWARD, CSR, RPR, CCRR, CLR.
CSR LICENSE NO. 9830
JOB NO. 42679
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layers or just one layer?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague.
THE WITNESS: I believe we had them on both
layers.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q And when you look at Figures 11A and 11B, do
you -- do you see the dummy features in those figures?
A Let's see. Where am I?
Yes, yes.
Q Okay. And those would be the small
rectangular boxes between the longer parallel -substantially parallel lines?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Could you go to Column 16, Line 20.
It explains dummy features a little bit. You see
starting on Line 61, Column 16 says that:
"The dummy features 204 are electrically
isolated and positioned in the gaps between each of
the lines 206 and 208. Although they may be patterned
separately, the dummy features 204 are typically
patterned along with the lines 206 and 208.
Furthermore, although they may be formed from
different materials, the dummy features 204 are
typically formed with the same transparent conductive
material as the lines as, for example, ITO to provide

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the best possible index matching."
How were the dummy features in your invention
electrically isolated from the parallel lines?

Q Okay. Would it be possible to treat the ITO
areas that were to be dummy features to make them more
resistive than the parallel lines?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; it is calls for
speculation; and calls for expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: I I don't know. I can only
tell you how we did it.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q But you physically etched away ITO between
the parallel lines and the dummy features; is that
right?
A That's how
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague; lacks
foundation.
THE WITNESS: That's how I recall that we did
it, yes.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q And typically it says that the dummy features

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are made from the same material as the conductive
lines; correct?
A Correct.
Q So if you were using ITO for the conductive
lines, you would also use the same ITO for the dummy
features?
A That's how we did it in our prototypes, yes.
Q And by using the same material, that provided
the exact same optical index of the dummy features and
the conductive lines; correct?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. Were you familiar with any other touch
screen products that used similar dummy features?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague.
THE WITNESS: Not that I recall, no.

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MR. BARTLETT: Objection; calls for a legal
conclusion.

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MR. MACK: Q. What benefit, if any, would
the use of a virtual ground charge amplifier add to
the touch panel.
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; calls for
speculation; incomplete hypothetical; calls for expert
testimony.

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MR. MACK: Okay.
Q And is the -- is the phrase "a virtual ground
charge amplifier," is that something that you've heard
of outside of Apple?
A I can't say I have, no.
Q Okay. So as far as your -- your best
understanding is, there's no -- that's not a term of
art; correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; calls for a legal
conclusion.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, I'm not aware of
necessarily all the different terms that could be
used. I know the term "virtual ground" I'm -- I'm
aware of being used, "charge amplifier." The whole
combination, I can't say I know for sure.
MR. MACK: Q. Are you aware of any products
on today's market that may embody the invention
described in this patent?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; lacks foundation;
calls for a legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS: I don't know of any
specifically, no.
MR. MACK: Q. Well, the Apple products would
embody this invention; correct.
A Oh, oh, sorry. I thought you meant outside

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of Apple.
I -- I was not at Apple when Apple finally
shipped the final product, so I -- I can't tell you
what technique they're using on the final product.
Q Okay. But is it your understanding that it's
the -- the iPhone that's shipping today uses the
invention described in this patent?
A You know, I can't be sure. I've never torn
one apart to see how it works, so -Q Okay.
A -- I can't speculate.
Q And you mentioned you're not aware of any
third parties that are practicing the invention
described in this patent; right?
A Not that I'm aware of.
Q All right. So you -- you were obviously
aware of touch screen displays prior to May of 2004;
correct?
A Correct.
Q So you didn't invent capacitive touch screen
displays; right?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague.
THE WITNESS: It depends on what type you
mean -- what type of capacitive touch screens you
mean.

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MR. MACK: Okay.
Q You didn't invite -- you didn't invent the
self-capacitive type of -A No.
Q -- touch displays; right?
A No.
Q Do you believe that you invented the
mutual-capacitive type of touch displays?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague; calls for a
legal conclusion; calls for expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: Well, I can tell you that
the -- the -- you know, the prototypes that we
implemented used mutual capacitance.
MR. MACK: Q. And you weren't aware of any
other touch displays that used mutual capacitance
before May of 2004; correct.
A No.
Q Okay. What about the two layers of
electrodes that were spatially separated from one
another? Were you aware of any other products prior
to May of 2004 that exhibited that feature?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague; calls for a
legal conclusion; calls for expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: I was aware that there were
self-capacitive opaque touch devices that used

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copper -- two layers of copper electrodes separated by
a dielectric. That was very, very common in things
like the Synaptics trackpads.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q Were you aware of any transparent Synaptics
products?
A I believe they did give us a demo once
showing a transparent self-capacitive type touch
panel.
Q Okay. And did that transparent
self-capacitive type touch panel include two layers of
electrodes?
A I don't know. I didn't take it apart.
Q Okay. And you also didn't invent multi-touch
recognition on a touch display; correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague; calls for a
legal conclusion; calls for expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: Can you repeat that question
one more time, please.
MR. MACK: Sure.
Q You also didn't invent multi-touch
recognition on a touch display; correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: As far as I'm aware, no one had
done -- had been able to implement multiple-touch

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left-hand column, SmartSkin sensor architecture. It
says that:
"Figure 2 shows the principal of operation of
the SmartSkin sensor. The sensor consists of a
grid-shaped transmitter and receiver electrodes
(copper wires). The vertical wires are transmitter
electrodes, and the horizontal wires are receiver
electrodes. When one of the transmitters is excited
by a wave signal, the receiver receives this wave
signal because each crossing point
transmitter/receiver pairs acts as a very weak
capacitor."
Correct?
A Yes.
Q And looking at that description above with -in context with Figure 2, would that indicate to you
that there are two layers of copper wires?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: Well, it looks like there
are -- there are two -- there are receiver, as they
call them, and transmitter electrodes which may or may
not be on the same layer. I don't -- or on separate
layers. It's hard to say.
MR. MACK: Q. From the text, all the
horizontal wires are receiver electrodes; right.

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A That's the way it's shown, yes.
Q And all the vertical wires are transmitter
electrodes; correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: It appears that way.
MR. MACK: Q. And in order for the
intersection, as it describes, to act as a very weak
capacitor, those wires must be physically separated;
correct.
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: Yeah, without seeing exactly
the physical orientation, it would be hard to say.
They -- for something to be a capacitor, they can't be
conductively connected to each other.
MR. MACK: Right.
Q So there must be -- there must be some space
in between the horizontal wires and the vertical
wires; correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: I would say that would have to
be true, yes.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q And then the next sentence -- doesn't this
next sentence describe a mutual-capacitive sensing
arrangement, where it says:

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"When a conductive and grounded object
approaches a crossing point, it capacitively couples
to the electrodes and drains the wave signal. As a
result, the received signal amplitude becomes weak.
By measuring this effect, it is possible to detect the
proximity of a conductive object, such as a human
hand."
Does this paragraph to you describe a
mutual-capacitive sensing arrangement?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: Again, without, you know, fully
understanding exactly what they're doing, it would be
hard to say. It's -- it sounds like a
mutual-capacitive system to me.
MR. MACK: Q. Has anyone inside of Apple,
when you were developing your multi-touch prototype,
referred to the drive lines as transmitter lines or
transmitter electrodes.
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; vague; overbroad;
and calls for speculation.
THE WITNESS: I don't remember them ever
being called transmitter electrodes, no.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q What about the sense lines? Did -- have you
ever referred to the sense lines in your prototype at

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Apple in the multi-touch panel as receiver electrodes?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: I don't remember ever calling
the receiver electrodes, no.
MR. MACK: Q. Do you see the next -- in the
next column on '31635, the second column, the top of
the column says -- or actually, if we -- can we just
continue reading that paragraph on the left-hand side:
"The system time dividing transmitting signal
sent to each of the vertical electrodes and the system
independently measures values for each of the receiver
electrodes. These values are integrated to form
two-dimensional sensor values which we call proximity
pixels. Once these values are obtained, algorithms
similar to those used in image processing, such as
peak detection, connected region analysis, and
template matching, can be applied to recognized
gestures. As a result, the system can recognize
multiple objects; for example, hands."
Do you see that?
A Yes.
Q So does this appear -- does this appear to
show a mutual-capacitive-based sensing arrangement
that would recognize multiple touches?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; calls for expert

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record.
(Recess taken.)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This marks the beginning
of Volume I, Disc 3, in the deposition of Brian Huppi.
The time is 2:33 p.m., and we are on the record.
MR. MACK: Q. Mr. Huppi, you have in front
of you Exhibit 712 and 713; correct.
A Yes.
Q And Exhibit 712, is the face of that
exhibit is U.S. Patent 7,372,455; correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall seeing this patent before?
MR. BARTLETT: The question as phrased can
potentially call for attorney client privileged
communication and therefore instruct the witness not
to answer.
THE WITNESS: I won't answer.
MR. MACK: Q. Do you know the date that you
saw this patent before?
MR. BARTLETT: Same instruction.
THE WITNESS: I won't answer.
MR. MACK: He can't tell me the date that he
seen this.
MR. BARTLETT: No. If you want to phrase
your questions as you as you have in the past and

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say, you know, independent of any meeting with
counsel, have you seen this before and when, you can
go ahead and do that.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q Independent -- independent from any meetings
you had with counsel, do you recall ever seeing this
patent?
A No, I do not.
Q Could you look at Figure 2 of this patent,
and the corresponding text starting in Column 13.
13, Line 30, starts with making reference to Figure 2.
A Okay.
Q And Column 13 says "Reference is now made to
Figure 2, which is a general description of the second
finger detection embodiment of the present invention,"
and then it talks about a two-dimensional sensor
matrix 20; do you see that?
A Yes.
Q And it mentions that at each junction between
the two conductors a certain minimal amount of
capacitance exists. A finger 26 touches the sensor 20
at a certain position and increases the capacitance
between the first conductor line 24 and the orthogonal
conductor line 28; correct?
A That's what it says, yes.

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Q So the two-dimensional sensor matrix shown in
Figure 2, that would appear to be, again, similar to
the SmartSkin matrix that we looked at earlier;
correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; calls for
speculation; calls for expert testimony; vague.
THE WITNESS: I'd say it's hard to say for
sure whether it's similar or not without fully reading
this document. You know, the Figure 2 looks similar,
but I -- that's all I can say about it.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q And the -- the two-dimensional sensor matrix
20 in Figure 2 appears to be a rectangular grid matrix
of sensors; correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: It appears that way, but
sometimes these things are schematic, so it's hard to
tell what this physical arrangement is.
MR. MACK: Q. And 24 and 28 of Figure 2 are
both referred to in the text as conductor lines;
correct.
A Yes.
Q And it actually says that the conductor lines
are orthogonal; correct?
A Correct.

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Q And orthogonal to you would be another term
for perpendicular; correct?
A Yes, I think so.
Q Okay. Then if you look at Exhibit 713, which
is the provisional application which is incorporated
by reference into Exhibit 712, could you look at
page 17, which is Figure 3 of the provisional
application?
A Sorry. Say that again. Where am I going?
Q Page 17 at the bottom.
A Oh, page 17.
Q Sorry. Figure 3.
A Thank you. Okay.
Q And if you look at that in conjunction with
the text that refers to that figure, excuse me, which
appears on pages five and six, does it appear that the
two -- the two patterns, the vertical pattern and
horizontal pattern, are separated by a space?
MR. BARTLETT: I'm sorry. Did you refer him
to text? I'm confused.
MR. MACK: Yeah, there's text on -- well, we
can look at specific lines of text, if you want.
Q You see on page four, Section 4.2 under
"Sensor"?
A Yes.

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Q It says that "In a preferred embodiment, the
sensor is a grid of conductive lines made of
conductive polymers patterned on a PT foil. The grid
is made of two layers which are electrically separated
from each other. One of the layers contains a set of
parallel conductors. The other layer contains a set
of parallel conductors orthogonal to the first set of
the set of the first layer"; correct?
A Correct.
Q Is that what it says?
Sorry.
A That's what it says, yep.
Q Sorry.
So that would indicate to you the presumption
of Figure 3, if there's two layers of conductive
lines; correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Same objections.
THE WITNESS: Well, it says the grid is made
of two layers, so -MR. MACK: Okay.
THE WITNESS: -- that's what it says, yep.
MR. MACK: Q. And it says that the layers
are made up of parallel lines, correct, or parallel
conductors.
A Yes, it does say that.

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Q And the two different -- the two different
layers of parallel conductive layers are orthogonal to
each other; correct?
A That's what it says, yes.
Q And again orthogonal is another -- another
word -- another term that means perpendicular;
correct?
A Yes.
Q And then do you see at the top of page five,
it says "In a preferred embodiment," very first
paragraph "the sensor is patterned to organic
conductive material on a PT foil. Organic conductive
materials are basically more flexible and easier to
handle and may be able to lower visual difference
between conductive to nonconductive area.
"However, in different embodiments the
present invention sensor can implement another
transparent conductive materials such as ITO"; do you
see that?
A Yes.
Q And the ITO, that would refer to
indium-tin-oxide; correct?
A I believe so, yes.
Q Okay. And then if you go down to the fifth
paragraph, in a preferred embodiment, the conductors

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are straight lines having one millimeter width equally
spaced in a 4 millimeter interval; do you see that?
A Yes.
Q That would indicate to you that the lines
have an equal pitch?
A Yes.
Q And an equal thickness as well or width?
A It sounds like it, yes.
Q Okay. And at the bottom of page five, in one
of the embodiments, there's a three-layered approach
described, and this paragraph says, quote, "In one
embodiment the transparent sensor is built up of three
different layers implemented on three different foils.
Two layers are used for two grid of lines. One for
the X axis and one for the Y axis, and the third layer
is used for hard coating and anti-glaring"; do you see
that?
A Yes.
Q Does that appear to correspond to the
Figure 3 that we looked -- looked at earlier on
page 14?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection.
MR. MACK: I'm sorry. Page 17.
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; calls for
speculation; calls for expert testimony.

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THE WITNESS: Well, it's a bit hard to say,
since I don't actually refer to the figure. It sounds
like it.
MR. MACK: Okay.
Q And then the -- the next -- on page six of
the Exhibit 713, it does go into more detail of
Figure 3.
It says, quote, "The general object of the
present invention is to enable as higher transparency
as possible and therefore a preferred embodiment only
one foil is used."
So this appears to be a second embodiment
where there's only one foil rather than three foils;
correct?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; calls for
speculation; calls for expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: Well, I can just tell you what
it says. It says it's only using one foil.
MR. MACK: Q. Do you recall if your initial
prototype -- or strike that actually.
The -- the embodiment described in the '607
patent, how many layers are in the touch sensor?
MR. BARTLETT: Objection; compound; also
calls for expert testimony.
THE WITNESS: I can tell you I -- I can tell

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