Schoolcraft v. The City Of New York et al

Filing 500

DECLARATION of Alan H. Scheiner in Support re: 498 MOTION in Limine To Preclude Plaintiff From Offering Certain Evidence at Trial.. Document filed by Christopher Broschart(Tax Id. 915354 in his official capacity), Christopher Broschart(Tax Id. 915354 Individually), Kurt Duncan(Shield No. 2483, Individually), Kurt Duncan(Shield No. 2483 in his official capacity), William Gough(Tax Id. 919124, Individually), William Gough(Tax Id. 919124, in his Official Capacity), Elise Hanlon(in her official capacity as a lieutenant with the New York City Fire Department), Elise Hanlon(individually), Shantel James(Shield No. 3004 in his official capacity), Shantel James(Shield No. 3004 Individually), Theodore Lauterborn(Tax Id. 897840 in his official capacity), Theodore Lauterborn(Tax Id. 897840, Individually), Michael Marino, Michael Marino, Gerald Nelson(Assistant Chief Patrol Borough Brooklyn North, Tax Id. 912370 in his official capacity), Gerald Nelson(Assistant Chief Patrol Borough Brooklyn North, Tax Id. 912370, Individually), Frederick Sawyer(Shield No. 2576 in his official capacity), Frederick Sawyer(Shield No. 2576, Individually), The City Of New York. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A, # 2 Exhibit B, # 3 Exhibit C, # 4 Exhibit D, # 5 Exhibit E, # 6 Exhibit F, # 7 Exhibit G (Under Seal), # 8 Exhibit PTX 4, 6, 13, 16, 18, 22, 25, 26, 29, 30, 33, 34, 35, 40, 42, 46, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 57, 59, 60, 62, 64, 65, 66, 72, 84, 93, 95, 306, 308, 309, 314, 316, 400, 401, 402, 403, 406, 407, 408, 409, 420, 421, 426, 427 (Under Seal), # 9 Exhibit PTX 79, # 10 Exhibit PTX 81 (Part 1 of 2), # 11 Exhibit PTX 81 (Part 2 of 2), # 12 Exhibit PTX 404, # 13 Exhibit PTX 410, # 14 Exhibit PTX 411)(Thadani, Kavin)

PTX 411

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298
D429flol

1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

2

----~-------------------------x

3

Filed 05/30/13 Page 1 of 177

DAVID FLOYD, et al.,
Plaintiffs,

4

5

v.

6

CITY OF NEW YORK, et al.,

7
8

08 CV 1034(SAS)

Defendants.
------------------------------x

New York, N.Y.
April 2, 2013
10:09 a.m.

9
10
Before:
11

HON. SHIRA A. SCHEINDLIN,
12
District Judge
13

APPEARANCES
14
15
16
17
18
19

BELDOCK LEVINE & HOFFMAN, LLP
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
BY: JENN ROLNICK BORCHETTA
JONATHAN MOORE
COVINGTON & BURLING, LLP
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
BY: KASEY MARTINI
GRETCHEN HOFF VARNER
ERIC HELLERMAN
BRUCE COREY

20
21
22

CENTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
Attorneys for Plaintiffs
BY: DARIUS CHARNEY
SUNITA PATEL
BARER AZMY

23
24
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

1801

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298
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Filed 05/30/13 Page 28 of 177

1

have a witness, although I don't know if your Honor wants to

2

1828

start the witness now.

3

THE COURT:

Let's take the witness.

4

MR. MOORE:

The plaintiffs would call Steve Mauriello.

5

STEVEN MAURIELLO,

6

called as a witness by the plaintiffs,

7

having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
THE COURT:

8

9

State your first name and last name,

spelling both of the names for the record.

10

THE WITNESS:

My name is Steven Mauriello,

11

S-T-E-V-E-N, M-A-U-R-I-E-L-L-0.

12

DIRECT EXAMINATION

13

BY MR. MOORE:

14

Q.

15

York City Police Department?

16

A.

Yes, I am.

17

Q.

How long have you been in the NYPD?

18

A.

24 years.

19

Q.

You rose from the rank of a patrol officer to now a deputy

20

inspector, is that correct?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

What is your current position?

23

A.

Deputy inspector.

24

Borough Bronx and Queens.

25

Q.

Good morning, Mr. Mauriello.

You're employed by the New

I am executive officer of Transit

What position did you hold right before you became the
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct
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1829

1

executive officer of the transit borough of Bronx and Queens?

2

A.

I was the commanding officer of the 81st Precinct.

3

Q.

Is it accurate that you became the commanding officer of

4

the 31st Precinct in December 2007?

5

A.

Yes, it is.

6

Q.

Before that you spent a year as the executive officer of

7

the 31st Precinct, correct?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

Who was the CO when you were the executive officer?

10

A.

Deputy Inspector Robert Brower.

11

Q.

The 81st Precinct is in the patrol borough Brooklyn North,

12

correct?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

As the commanding officer of the 81st Precinct, you

15

reported directly to Deputy Chief Marino, correct?

16

A.

17

commanding officer, and also Chief Marino, who is the executive

13

officer.

19

Q.

20

borough Brooklyn North?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

And Chief Nelson is a two star chief, he was the borough

23

commander for Brooklyn North?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

You're aware, are you not, that an allegation was made

I reported directly to Chief Gerald Nelson, who is the

Deputy Chief Marino was the executive officer of patrol

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct
D428FL02

1830

1

against you during your tenure at the 81st Precinct that quotas

2

were maintained in the 81st Precinct?

3

allegation, correct?

4

A.

The allegation, yes.

5

Q.

You deny that allegation, is that correct?

6

A.

Of course.

7

Q.

But you know that that allegation was made against you,

8

correct?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

At some point, you were investigated by the NYPD about

11

these allegations, were you not?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

Subsequent to that -- well, let me ask you.

14

You're aware of that

At some point you transferred from the 81st Precinct

15

to your new position as the executive officer of transit

16

borough Brooklyn and Queens, correct?

17

A.

Bronx and Queens.

18

Q.

Bronx and Queens.

19

I'm sorry.

That was on July 3, 2010 when that was communicated to

20

you?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

That was told to you by Chief Hall, correct?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

Chief Hall is the chief of patrol for the entire New York

25

City Police Department, correct?

He called me up.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

!

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1831

1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

When he talked to you on July 3, 2010, this was after

3

allegations had been made against you, correct?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

When he talked to you, he said you were doing a really good

6

job at the 81st Precinct, right?

7

A.

Yes, he did.

8

Q.

In fact, he wanted to reward you by giving you the position

9

of executive officer of transit borough Bronx and Queens,

10

correct?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

And you considered that a promotion, right?

13

A.

I considered it a transfer.

14

Q.

You considered it a promotion as well, right, in the sense

15

you're going to a more important position than what you were

16

in, correct?

17

A.

18

officers.

19

Q.

No.

I mean, I am going to be second commander to more

So that's a step up for you, correct?

20

THE COURT:

21

THE WITNESS:

22

THE COURT:

23

THE WITNESS:

Did you view it that way?
No.
You thought it was lateral?
Yes.

24

Q.

Did you view it as a demotion?

25

A.

No.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct
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1832

1

Q.

2

Department, correct?

3

A.

Yes, sir.

4

Q.

You're aware, are you not, that the Office of the Chief of

5

Department investigates some civilian complaints that are

6

referred to them either by CCRB or other agencies within the

7

police department, correct?

8

A.

Yes, sir.

9

Q.

Some of those allegations --withdraw that.

10

Now, you're familiar with the Office of the Chief of

Allegations of an improper stop and frisk are

11

investigated occasionally by the Office of the Chief of

12

Department, correct?

13

A.

14

do with force or abuse or discourtesy or offensive language.

15

Then it goes to the chief of department.

16

Q.

17

don't recall the Office of the Chief of Department

18

investigating allegations of improper stop and frisk?

19

A.

I don't recall reviewing any.

20

Q.

But you do know that when the Office of the Chief of

21

Department is investigating a case, that they refer the case to

22

the precinct where the allegation took place, correct?

23

A.

24

to the precinct.

25

Q.

Usually it's if someone got a summons.

What about stop and frisk,

It doesn't have to

is it your testimony that you

They refer it to the borough, and then the borough sends it

So when you were the commanding officer of the 8lst

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct

1833

1

Precinct, investigations of officers by the Office of the Chief

2

of Department at some point came across your desk, correct?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

And you would refer those out within the precinct for

5

investigation, correct?

6

A.

7

and then he would give it to the

8

against a lieutenant, my XO would do the investigation.

They would get referred to my administrative lieutenant,

MR. MOORE:

9

reo,

or if it's an allegation

One second, your Honor.

10

Q.

When you say ICO, you're referring to a position known as

11

the integrity control officer, correct?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

What does the integrity control officer of a precinct do?

14

A.

He is making sure all the officers are following the rules

15

and regulations.

16

Q.

Of the New York City Police Department, correct?

17

A.

Of the New York City Police Department.

18

Q.

As well as being ethical in how they are police officers,

19

correct?

20

A.

Of course.

21

Q.

Occasionally, the ICO would farm those investigations out

22

to sergeants as well?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

So it wouldn't be uncommon for a sergeant who supervised an

25

officer to be asked to investigate an allegation against that

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 34 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

1834

1

officer that he supervised, correct?

2

A.

3

the allegation was made.

4

Q.

5

called to investigate an officer that he supervises, correct?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

What you're saying is the only limitation would be, if in

8

fact he was on the scene, then you would find somebody else to

9

do the investigation, correct?

As long as the sergeant wasn't personally on the scene when

But assuming he wasn't on the scene, he could still be

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

After that investigation was completed, they would come

12

back to your desk, right?

13

A.

When it was all done, it would come back to my desk.

14

Q.

And you would review it and send it back on to the borough?

15

A.

Yes.

16

sure we have to file it, send it to the borough.

17

Q.

18

Precinct, you don't ever recall receiving a recommendation from

19

the Office of the Chief of Department to discipline any officer

20

that had conducted an illegal stop and frisk,

21

A.

To the best of my knowledge, no.

22

Q.

You know what CompStat is, do you not?

23

A.

Yes,

24

Q.

Tell us what CompStat is.

25

A.

CompStat is --

Well, I review it, send it to my lieutenant, make

During the time you were the commanding officer of the 81st

right?

I do.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1835

l

Q.

Just briefly.

I know it's a long process.

2

A.

CompStat brings down a borough.

3

will bring down ten precincts, housing and transit, that work

4

in that area, and they would go over crime trends and crime

5

spikes and violence.

6

Q.

7

as the commanding officer of the 8lst Precinct, correct?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

I'm sorry?

10

A.

I still go there as an XO.

ll

Q.

You still go there as the executive officer of the transit

12

borough, correct?

13

A.

Of course.

14

Q.

Is it your testimony that from time to time UF-250s would

15

be discussed at CompStat meetings?

16

A.

17

a crime trend, and they want to know what my plan is and my

18

deployment, and they will put it up on the map.

19

will see what time the crime was happening and what my

20

enforcement is and the violence around it.

21

saying the only time they talk about a 250 was if they did

22

their own -- I guess before we went to CompStat -- they ran a

23

sampling, and if somebody might have been wanted that we

24

stopped on a 250, then my officers might not have known it,

25

they might bring up,

If it's Brooklyn North, it

On occasion you would attend CompStat meetings in your role

And I still go to CompStat.

My testimony was that when we go to CompStat, we talk about

And then they

And I did testify

this guy you stopped was in the area, he

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

is a bad guy, he has got an active warrant, and put the picture

2

up.

3

Q.

4

individual 250, generally, and discuss the circumstances of

5

what is in that document, correct 7

6

A.

No, they don't do that.

7

Q.

And you said the purpose is to analyze crime trends and you

8

look at the location and then you match it with the

9

enforcement, correct?

That's the only time they ever talk about 250s.
In your experience, they don't actually pull out an

10

A.

We do a plan.

11

spike in, say, a certain area, let's say Sector Allen, and I

12

might put a plan out, a foot post or anticrime.

13

at it.

14

and 11 at night, they will look to see what kind of enforcement

15

I have between 3 in the afternoon and 11 at night.

We have a robbery

They will look

If the robbery is happening between 3 in the afternoon

THE COURT:

16

They put it up on a map.

I would like to interrupt now just to stop

17

for the morning recess and reconvene at quarter of on that

18

clock.

19

(Recess)

20

BY MR. MOORE:

21

Q.

22

the transit borough, he described it as a reward, correct?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

So I suppose that's technically not a promotion, but it's a

25

reward for the job you did at the 81st Precinct, correct?

Inspector Mauriello, when Chief Hall told you were going to

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct
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1837

1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Now, before the break you were talking about CompStat, and

3

if I understand what you were saying, CompStat involves the

4

process of locating crime trends and then pairing that up with

5

enforcement activity that is taken to deal with those crime

6

trends or spikes, correct?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

And that activity that is being used that is identified as

9

relating to the crime trends, that's arrest activity, that's

10

summons activity, that's 250s, correct?

11

A.

Doing an overall plan, yes.

12

Q.

That's certainly part of the analysis, correct?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

When you go to CompStat meetings, a precinct command

15

profile is prepared, right?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

And you did that several times when you were the CO of the

18

81st Precinct, correct?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

That summarizes the enforcement activity in the precinct,

21

correct?

22

A.

23

profile?

24

to a CompStat sheet.

25

Q.

It summarizes the enforcement activity in the precinct
It's different stuff on the precinct profile compared

Does the precinct command profile that's passed out of

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct
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1838

1

CompStat, does that indicate for a certain period of time the

2

number of arrests, the number of summonses, the number of 250s?

3

A.

4

know there's overtime and CCRBs.

5

Q.

What about arrests and summonses, you think that's there?

6

A.

It's on the CompStat sheet, our CompStat sheet.

7

Q.

Whether it's a precinct command profile or a CompStat

8

sheet, when you go to the CompStat meetings, you or somebody in

9

your position would be presenting CompStat with a summary of

10

your enforcement activity for the period that's being looked

11

at, correct?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And with respect to 250s, that would compare the number of

14

250s done at a certain point in the past to what is being done

15

at present, correct?

16

A.

I believe on the command profile.

17

Q.

You don't recall, do you, at those CompStat meetings that

18

there was ever a discussion about whether the stops and frisks

19

that would be recorded in those 250s are ever legal or

20

constitutional, you don't recall such a discussion at CompStat,

21

do you?

22

A.

No.

23

Q.

I didn't hear you.

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

And you don't recall discussing that in any other meetings

I have got to reflect.

I know there's 250s on there,

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

I

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 39 of 177
Mauriello - direct
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1

that you had in the NYPD, correct?

2

A.

3

my officers.

4

Q.

5

stops and frisks at the borough commanders' meeting, did you?

6

A.

183 9

I had a borough -- I had my own every payday meeting with

You didn't discuss the legality or the constitutionality of

I had my own payday meeting with my supervisors.
THE COURT:

7

8

At that meeting, did you discuss the

constitutionality of the stops?
THE WITNESS:

9

10

constitutionality.

11

No, we didn't talk about

We went over 250s, if there was mistakes on

it.

12

THE COURT:

l3

THE WITNESS:

14

THE COURT:

You didn't discuss the legality-No.
-- of individual stops?

15

Q.

You have never had that kind of a discussion with the chief

16

of patrol, correct?

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

You have in the past,

19

officer of the 8lst Precinct, had occasions when you observed

20

that 250s had not been prepared properly, correct?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

That typically in your experience involves the form not

23

being filled out properly, right?

24

A.

The form not being filled out properly.

25

Q.

Other than that, other than whether the form was filled out

in your position as commanding

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct

1840

1

properly, you don't recall any other issues at those precinct

2

meetings with your supervisors with respect to any discussion

3

about stop, question and frisk?

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

The question is you don't recall any discussions with your

6

supervisors about the legality or the constitutionality of a

7

particular stop and frisk at any of those meetings with your

8

supervisors,

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

Now, you obviously know Deputy Chief Marino, correct?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

He was your supervisor, at least one of your supervisors

13

for some period of time, correct?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Was he the executive officer the entire time you were in

16

the 81st Precinct?

17

A.

18

I became the CO.

19

Q.

20

officer of the 75th Precinct for a period of time?

21

A.

22

the commanding officer.

23

Q.

24

in the 75th Precinct that he maintained quotas, correct, you

25

were aware of that?

My supervisors know the law.

correct?

He might have been the commanding officer of the 75 before
I'm not sure.

While you were in the 81st Precinct, was he the commanding

He might have been -- when I was the XO, he might have been

You were aware that allegations had been made against him

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1841

1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

And you knew that an arbitrator had found,

3

had set quotas for enforcement activity in the 75th Precinct,

4

correct?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

I'm sorry?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

This is the same Chief Marino who you met with on a regular

9

basis while he was the executive officer of patrol borough

in fact, that he

It was in the paper.

10

Brooklyn North?

11

A.

I didn't meet on a regular basis.

12

Q.

You met at least twice a month?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Do you recall whether Chief Marino was ever disciplined for

15

having been found to have maintained quotas at the 75th

16

Precinct, do you know if he was ever disciplined?

17

A.

I don't know.

18

Q.

Not to your knowledge, right?

19

A.

Not to my knowledge.

20

Q.

When you met with Chief Marino -- withdraw that.

21

He is one of many in the room, yes.

In those twice a month meetings when you met with the

22

executive officer of the patrol borough Brooklyn North, you

23

don't recall any issues of stop and frisk or racial profiling

24

being discussed, do you?

25

A.

No.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 42 of 177
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Mauriello - direct

1

Q.

2

on in the 81st Precinct, even after all that publicity, there

3

was no discussion with Chief Marino about whether there was

4

18 4 2

That's true even after that publicity about what was going

racial profiling going on in the 81st Precinct?
MS. GROSSMAN:

5

Objection.

6

MR. MOORE:

Publicity.

I

don't know what time period.

7

Foundation.

I will lay a foundation.

8

Q.

Do you recall a series of articles in the Village Voice?

9

A.

I believe the first one was in May of 2010.

10

Q.

In May 2010, were you still the commanding officer of the

11

8lst Precinct?

12

A.

Yes, I was.

13

Q.

Chief Marino was the executive officer of patrol borough

14

Brooklyn North, right?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

The series of articles in the Village Voice, do you recall

17

that?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Those articles referred to or contained allegations that

20

quotas were being maintained in the 81st Precinct?

21

A.

The article, yes.

22

Q.

But you never discussed that with Chief Marino, right?

23

A.

No.

24

Q.

You were never present in a meeting with Chief Marino or

25

any of his supervisors where the allegations in that article
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 43 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

1843

1

were discussed with him,

correct?

2

A.

No one ever discussed the article with me.

3

Q.

Now, are you familiar with the concept of team led

4

enforcement?

5

A.

Yes.

6

Q.

Am I accurate in stating that team led enforcement is when

7

a sergeant or a lieutenant takes a group of police officers out

8

into the field and targets a specific area in the precinct,

9

correct?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

The purpose of that is to try to get enforcement activity

12

at that location, correct?

13

A.

14

either shootings or a high rise in crime.

15

part of it.

16

Q.

17

right?

18

A.

19

activity, there is no activity.

20

Q.

21

when the squad activity is too low, correct?

22

A.

23

team led enforcement if shootings are up,

24

way.

25

Q.

The purpose is he is going to the area where we are having
So omnipresence is

One of the goals is to get activity in those locations,

If there is activity to be had, yes.

If there is no

One of the occasions when you do team led enforcement is

We might do it if you have extra personnel, and we might do

Not lack of activity.

yes, we'd do it that

Not always.

I appreciate that answer, but my question is, is one of the

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 44 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

1844

l

times when you do team led enforcement when the squad activity

2

is,

in your judgment, too low?

3

A.

Again, a lot of times team led enforcement,

4

to my platoon commander when he wants team led enforcement.

5

But if I have violence,

6

enforcement.

7

Q.

8

or no, I would appreciate it.

9

team led enforcement when you believe that the squad activity

I leave it up

I will tell them to do team led

I appreciate that, but if you can answer that question yes
Is one of the times when you do

10

is too low?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

So one of the purposes is to direct officers into a

13

location where their activity can increase, correct?

14

A.

15

and quality of life conditions.

16

Q.

So the purpose is to try to get the activity up, right?

17

A.

The purpose is to try to stop the crime.

18

Q.

One of the ways you do that is by increasing the

19

enforcement activity, correct?

20

A.

It's quality.

21

Q.

I understand that.

22

increase the activity, whether it's quality or quantity, you're

23

trying to increase the activity there, correct?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Thank you.

We send them to the location where there is crime trends

We want quality, not quantity, sir.
That also means you're trying to

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 45 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

Do you recall,

1

1845

Inspector Mauriello, giving a statement

2

to individuals within the police department on August 11, 2010

3

involving allegations of quotas at the 81st Precinct?

4

A.

Yes.
MR. MOORE:

5

6

That's Exhibit 298.

We move the admission

of Exhibit 298.
MS. GROSSMAN:

7

We object on the same basis we objected

8

when the same type of transcript was offered with respect to

9

Chief Marino.

But given that we understand what the Court's

10

ruling is going to be, we accept it and admit it subject to our

11

objection.
THE COURT:

12
13

It's reserving your objection, but I am

admitting the document.

14

(Plaintiff's Exhibit 298 received in evidence)

15

MR. MOORE:

16

Can you pull up Exhibit 298, Plaintiffs'

Exhibit 298?
MS. GROSSMAN:

17

I just wanted to remind the Court that

18

the exhibit was only admitted for purposes of notice.

19

It had a

very narrow purpose.

20

THE COURT:

OK.

21

MR. MOORE:

You can leave it right there for the time

22

being.

23

BY MR. MOORE:

24

Q.

25

present and you were represented by an attorney, correct?

At this interview of you on August 11, 2010, you were

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 46 of 177
Mauriello - direct
D428FL02

1846

1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

You were read certain rights that are given to all officers

3

who are under investigation, correct?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

So you understood at that time that this was an

6

investigation, at least in part, of your conduct in the 81st

7

Precinct, correct?

8

A.

Allegations, yeah.

9

Q.

It was an investigation of allegations made against you,

10

correct?

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

You were asked questions and you gave answers to those

13

questions, right?

14

A.

Yes.
MS. GROSSMAN:

15
16

This appears to be set up for improper

impeachment.
THE COURT:

17

I thought so far he is just laying a

18

foundation that it is a sworn statement, a statement under

19

oath.
MR. MOORE:

20

Right.

21

Q.

You were under oath when you gave testimony on that

22

occasion, correct?

23

A.

Yes, sir.

24

Q.

One of the things you talked about in that statement was an

25

officer in the precinct who you believed was not a productive

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 47 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

1847

1

member of the command, correct?

2

A.

They asked me about him, yes.

3

Q.

We don't have to get his name for the record, but they

4

asked you about that person's activity with respect to arrests,

5

summonses and 250s, correct?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

And you told the NYPD at that point that that person was

8

not a productive member of the command, correct?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

That was based, in your judgment, on his overall activity

11

in terms of summonses, arrests, and 250s, correct?

12

A.

13

wasn't taking direction well from his supervisors.

14

Q.

15

arrests, summonses, and 250 activity, correct?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

On that occasion, in that meeting, you denied there were

18

quotas in the 31st Precinct, do you recall that?

19

A.

There are no quotas.

20

Q.

So the answer is, at that hearing, or at that meeting, or

21

however you want to describe it, you denied that there were

22

quotas, correct?

23

A.

Right.

24

Q.

But you did say that there were productivity standards that

25

officers were expected to meet, correct?

I also said, if you read it, about his personality, he

But with regard to his activity, the activity involved is

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 48 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct
1

A.

Correct.

2

Q.

You also indicated that if they don't meet those

3

productivity standards, they can be disciplined in some

4

fashion,

5

A.

Correct.

6

Q.

When you are referring to productivity standards, you're

7

referring to enforcement activity, correct?

8

A.

It's overall.

9

Q.

We are talking about productivity.

1848

correct?

When we do evaluations, productivity, yes.
So I want you to focus

10

on the word productivity.

Is that referring to an officer's

11

enforcement activities?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

That enforcement activity involves arrests, summonses, and

14

250s, correct?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

So it's your opinion that if an officer doesn't meet

17

certain productivity standards with regard to arrests,

18

summonses and 250s, that that officer can be disciplined in

19

some fashion,

20

A.

21

supervisor.

22

year,

23

Q.

He can be disciplined, correct?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

Now,

correct?

He gets counseled all year.

So he has an immediate

So by the time it comes to me at the end of the

the evaluation is already written.

Inspector Mauriello,

So yes.

you were in court just before you

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS,
[phone]

P.C.

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 49 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

1849

1

got on the stand where a series of tape recordings were played,

2

correct?

3

A.

Yes, sir.

4

Q.

You listened to those tape recordings,

5

A.

Yes,

6

Q.

It's not the first time you listened to them?

7

A.

Not the first time.

8

Q.

How many times have you listened to them?

9

A.

Probably too many.

10

Q.

We are going to go over in a minute what you said in some

11

of those meetings, but there was a lot of discussion in those

12

meetings about numbers, correct, on those tapes about numbers,

13

right?

14

A.

15

the officer working.

16

him to make an arrest.

17

Q.

You heard the term numbers being said though, correct?

18

A.

On the tapes, yes.

19

Q.

Those tapes were actually made public sometime ago,

20

correct?

21

A.

I believe back in 2010.

22

Q.

You had never been actually questioned by the police

23

department with respect to any of the matters covered in any of

24

those tapes, correct?

25

A.

correct?

sir.

We want activity.

So it's not about numbers.

It's about

If there is a crime happening,

No.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

I expect

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 50 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

1850

1

Q.

I'm sorry.

I didn't hear the answer.

2

A.

No.

3

Q.

You never discussed with anybody in the police department

4

any allegations about whether there was racial stereotyping or

5

racial profiling going on in any of those tapes, right?

6

never had a discussion with anybody in the police department

7

about that, right?

8

A.

Right.

9

Q.

You have never received any -- you were never disciplined

You

10

for any of those comments that we heard by any of the officers

11

on those tapes, right?

12

A.

Correct.

13

Q.

As far as you know, none of the other officers who spoke on

14

those tapes were disciplined for anything that occurred with

15

respect to what was on those tapes, right?

16

A.

Correct.

17

Q.

In fact,

18

any of the circumstances of what was on the tapes, right?

19

A.

I can't tell you that.

20

Q.

To your knowledge.

21

A.

To my knowledge.

22

Q.

You certainly weren't asked that, right?

23

A.

Right.

24

Q.

Did you ever discuss what was on those tapes with

25

Lieutenant Delafuente?

none of those officers were even interviewed about

I don't know if they were.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1 :08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 51 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct

1851

1

A.

No.

2

Q.

Did you ever discuss anything on any of those tapes with

3

Sergeant, now Lieutenant Weiss?

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

Did you ever discuss anything that was on those tapes with

6

a Sergeant Rasheena Huffman?

7

A.

No.

8

Q.

Did you ever discuss anything that was on those tapes with

9

a Sergeant Raymond Stukes?

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

When those tapes first came out,

12

commanding officer of the 8lst Precinct, correct?

13

A.

Correct.

14

Q.

Lieutenant Delafuente still worked for you at that time,

15

right?

16

A.

17

already gone by then.

18

Q.

He what?

19

A.

He went to harbor.

20

Q.

I thought you said Harvard.

21

A.

Harbor.

22

Q.

Do you know what his rank is now?

23

A.

I think he is still a lieutenant.

24

Q.

We know Sergeant Weiss was promoted to lieutenant,

25

was after these tapes came out, correct?

I'm not sure.

you were still the

He went to harbor so I don't know if he was

I think he was already transferred.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS,
[phone]

P.C.

and that

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 52 of 177
Mauriello - direct
D428FL02

1852

1

A.

Correct.

2

Q.

Rasheena Huffman, is she still a sergeant 7

3

A.

I believe so.

4

Q.

What about Raymond Stukes, has he been promoted from

5

sergeant 7

6

A.

I believe he is still sergeant.

7

Q.

Did anyone ever tell you in the police department that some

8

of the statements made by you-- withdraw that.

9

You were the supervisor of Lieutenant Delafuente while

10

you were in the 81st Precinct, right?

11

A.

I was the commanding officer, yes.

12

Q.

He reported to you, correct?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

You supervised all of those individuals, Raymond Stukes,

15

Rasheena Huffman, Sergeant Weiss and Lieutenant Delafuente, you

16

were the commanding officer for all of those individuals,

17

correct?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

Did anybody ever say to you that some of the statements

20

contained in those tapes could be construed as quotas?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

Before we hear some of the tapes,

23

couple of questions.

24

position is with respect to some of the issues that we may hear

25

raised in those tapes.

I want to ask you a

I want to be clear about what your

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 53 of 177
D428FL02
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1853

It's your position, is it not, that you don't use stop

1

2

and frisk to deter or to instill fear in a certain part of the

3

population, correct?

4

A.

5

person is about to commit, did commit, or will commit a penal

6

law, a misdemeanor or a felony.

We use 250s when you have a reasonable suspicion that the

THE COURT:

7

8

Is that your position?

You agree with Mr. Moore that you don't

use it to instill fear in certain parts of the population?
THE WITNESS:

9

Of course not.

10

Q.

It's your position that as a CO of the 81st Precinct,

11

neither you nor any member of your command team set numerical

12

goals for officers to meet, correct?

13

A.

There was no

14

Q.

Is that your position?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

It's your position, as you sit here today, that as a

17

commanding officer, neither you nor any member of your team

18

used quotas in the 81st Precinct, correct?

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

It's your position that as a commanding officer of the 81st

21

Precinct, neither you nor any member of your team put pressure

22

on officers to get numbers up under threat of adverse job

23

consequences, that's your position as you sit here today,

24

correct?

25

A.

There were no numbers.

No quotas.

No pressure,

just do your job.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 54 of 177
Mauriello - direct
D428FL02

1854

It's your position that neither you nor anybody else in the

1

Q.

2

81st Precinct -- withdraw that.

3

It's your position that as a member of the 81st

4

Precinct, you didn't feel pressure from your higher-ups in the

5

borough to increase your enforcement activity, correct?

6

A.

Correct.

7

Q.

It's your position, as you sit here today, that neither you

8

nor your subordinates engaged in any racial stereotyping or

9

racial profiling in any of the comments that we heard in those

10

tapes, correct?

11

A.

Correct.

12

Q.

Before we go to these tapes, I just want to go back to the

13

statement you made, which is Plaintiffs' Exhibit 298, for a

14

moment.

15

Do you recall telling the interviewer there --

16

MS. GROSSMAN:

17

and line?

if I could just have a page

He is obviously reading.
MR. MOORE:

18

Your Honor,

If I need to impeach him with it, I will

19

give her the page and line, but I don't know what his answer is

20

going to be.
THE COURT:

21
22

It doesn't matter.

If you're reading from

it, tell her.
MR. MOORE:

23
24

using it as a guide.

25

I am not reading word for word.
If I use it to impeach,

I may be

I will definitely

tell her.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 55 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct
THE COURT:

2

If you read from it, tell her the page

MR. MOORE:

1

Page 46,

1855

number.

3

just to be safe.

Do you recall telling the interviewer there that

4

Q.

5

productivity standards were set with respect to arrests,

6

summonses and 250s in the 81st Precinct?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

Is it your position that there were never any consequences

9

if members of the service weren't productive with regard to

10

those activities, is that your position?

11

A.

12

and you were counseled, mentored, team led, trained by a

13

supervisor, documented all year, and then you got a 2.5.

14

that's discipline.

15

Q.

16

they can be disciplined, correct?

17

A.

18

are also other parts of the evaluation.

19

Q.

20

could be taken against them, right?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

That includes being denied overtime, right?

23

A.

No.

24

Q.

Well, what about a change of tour or a change of

25

assignment?

There would be a consequence if you didn't work all year

So

If an officer fails to meet the productivity standards,

That's part of your evaluation, productivity.

When I say discipline,

But there

I mean adverse employment actions

No one ever got denied overtime.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 56 of 177
D428FL02
Mauriello - direct
1

A.

That could be possible.

There is a list.

2

performance monitoring.

3

of -- a transfer out.

4

board.

5

Q.

6

of not fulfilling the productivity standard, correct 7

7

A.

8

women to work hard.

9

Q.

1856

You could get

It could be a change of tour, a change
That's all part of the personnel review

Those would be adverse employment consequences as a result

We are just asking the guys and -- the fellows and the

I understand.

That's all.
And I appreciate that, and I am sure you are

10

asking them to work hard, and I think that's in part why we are

11

here today.

12

What my question is, if they fail to meet the

13

productivity standards, adverse employment consequences could

14

follow,

15

right?

16

A.

Correct.

17

Q.

Inspector Mauriello, I am going to now play some of the

18

tapes that we heard, that you just heard, and I am going to ask

19

you some questions about some of the things we heard on the

20

tapes.

21

A.

Yes,

22

Q.

Everybody on the tape was somebody that you are familiar

23

with, correct?

24

A.

Correct.

25

Q.

Either a lieutenant under your supervision or a sergeant

correct?

Maybe not right away, but at some point,

OK?
sir.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 57 of 177
Mauriello - direct
D428FL02

185 7

1

under your supervision, correct?

2

A.

Correct.

3

Q.

In some cases on the tape we can hear your voice, correct?

4

A.

Correct.

5

6

MR. MOORE:

So if you can play the first track, the 12

December 2008 track.

7

MS. GROSSMAN:

8

MR. MOORE:

9

What time?

Start it at the beginning.

It goes from

2:20 to 4:30, I believe.

10

(Audiotape played)

11

THE COURT:

12

MS. GROSSMAN:

13

THE COURT:

Can we give the witness a copy of the

transcript of that?

14

Stop that.

15

What is the date?

That's a good idea.

I didn't find mine.

What date is it?

16

Mr. Moore, which date is it?

17

MR. MOORE:

The first one, 12 December 2008.

18

THE COURT:

The very first one.

19

(Continued on next page)

OK.

20
21
22
23
24
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-H BP
D429flo3
MR. MOORE:

1

Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 58 of 177
Mauriello - direct

I'm going to hand you,

Inspector

2

Mauriello,

3

do is listen to the recording and then if you need to

4

you're confused about something you can refer to the

5

transcript.

6

the actual written transcripts.

1858

What I'd ask you to
if

Okay.

THE COURT:

You don't listen to him.

7

to listen when you can read along.

8

It's really easy

read along.
MR. MOORE:

9

10

Do both.

So if I were you,

Don't listen to me.

I would

Listen to

the judge.

11

THE COURT:

There you go.

12

MR. MOORE:

So if you could play the first recording

13

and I'll indicate when I want it stopped.

14

(Audio recording played)

15

MR. MOORE:

16

That's Lieutenant Delafuente speaking,

correct?
THE WITNESS:

17

Correct.

18

Q.

And he makes mention of specific numbers from each of the

19

people in the car, correct?

20

A.

Correct.

21

Q.

But they're talking about he expects at least two from each

22

of them

23

correct?

24

A.

That's what he said.

25

Q.

That's two enforcement activities,

But they weren't talked about specific numbers.

each of the occupants of this quality of life car,

correct?

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 59 of 177
D429flo3
Mauriello - direct
1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Okay.

3

officers at the role call, correct?

4

A.

1859

That's what he said.
So that's a specific number that's being told to the

Correct.

5

MR. MOORE:

Keep going.

6

(Audio recording played)

7

Q.

You heard that and followed that along, correct?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

Now that's referring to enforcement activity with respect

10

to summonses and 250s, right?

11

there, correct?

12

A.

I believe community visits he said too.

13

Q.

I'm sorry?

14

A.

I believe community visits too.

15

Q.

I didn't hear?

16

A.

I've said I believe community visits.

17
18

THE COURT:

That's what Delafuente mentions

Community visits, he mentions.

But I

don't see that.

19

THE WITNESS:

20

Can I explain what a quality of life order is?

21

THE COURT:

22

250s and Cs, yeah.

Sure.

He wants to explain what a quality

of life order is.

23

THE WITNESS:

24

THE COURT:

25

THE WITNESS:

Thank you.

The judge said I could.

If you can.
So I'm going to explain.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1 :08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP
D429flo3

1
2

MR. MOORE:

Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 60 of 177
Mauriello - direct

She's the judge.

1860

So if she wants to hear

it, go ahead.
THE WITNESS:

3

Yes.

We used to have impact outside

4

personnel which was the borough officers, 50 officers.

And

5

then they get moved at a certain time to another part of

6

Brooklyn that's having crime problems.

7

So I have to come up with a plan how to, when you move

8

these officers out, they're in a very violent area where we had

9

a lot of problems between three buildings, three different

10

areas with violence and robbery trends, how am I going to put

11

cops in there when I don't have 50 cops to put in like we used

12

to have.

13

So I come up with a plan.

And I have footposts put

14

out there.

Now I don't have that many footposts.

So I put in

15

a certain area, I come up with a quality of life order, which

16

is a mobile moving footpost.

17

certain area.

18

about Marcus Garvey to Saratoga; Atlantic to Decatur.

19

three very violent buildings that were at war with each other:

20

120 Chauncey complex, that's 110 Chauncey 94, and 1711 Fulton.

21

Then we had Breevort houses, which is a half a block away,

22

which is a public housing development.

23

building that's independent on-- between Atlantic and Fulton.

24

They call it the Smurf complex.

25

house, which is a block away.

I want that car to cover a

At the time we're talking about, we're talking
We had

And then we had another

And then we had Chauncey
And all four locations didn't

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

like each other.

2

the Hatfields and McCoys.

3

gang-related, if it was drug-related, or if it was just they

4

didn't like each other because you came from this block.

5

Q.

Are you still talking about what a quality of life order

6

A.

Yes,

1861

I am,

And this goes back for years and years like
There was violence.

If it was

sir.

So I put out a quality of life order.

7

And it's a

8

mobile, moveable footpost.

9

them to help out the footpost to cover a lot of area, to be

10

omnipresent.

But they're in a car.

And I expect

All right.

Of course, if they observe a crime I expect, you know,

11

If they observe a

12

if you have probable cause, arrest somebody.

13

quality of life infraction, I want the condition corrected.

14

they are reasonable suspicion to stop somebody, I expect

15

someone to be stopped.

That's their job.

They're not on the radio.

16

If

They're not being assigned

They're out there only on a major crime where they

17

911 jobs.

18

backup on a 911 job.

19

footpost.

20

They're off the radio.

So it's a mobile

At times, if nothing is going on, I would want them in

21

the car with their lights on, directing patrol on the corner,

22

where people walking home from the subway to go home.

23

They were out there for omnipresence.

24

The people in the community loved it.

25

complimented my officers out there.

They

And also it kept the

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

1862

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1

criminals, by moving the car back and forth with the lights on

2

and going and getting out of the car, the criminals thought we

3

had more personnel out there.

4

commit crimes.

5

Q.

6

quality of life orders, correct?

7

no?

8

A.

If it was out there, yes.

9

Q.

And when Delafuente said we expected at least two from each

And they thought better not to

That's what a quality of life order was.

You expected productivity from the officers in those
Can you just answer it yes or

10

of you in the car he's not saying two from each of you in the

11

car if there's reasonable suspicion or if there's probable

12

cause,

is he?

13

That's not in that transcript,

correct?

14

A.

He's not saying that but

15

Q.

He's not saying that?

16

A.

My officers know that.

17

Q.

But it doesn't appear in the transcript?

18

A.

It doesn't appear in the transcript.

19

Q.

Yes or no?

Thank you.

They're trained.

You say -- actually rather than play the tape and go

20
21

through a lot.

Read,

if you will,

from page -- from on the

22

same page, the transcript, from line 16.

23

right?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

You got that?

Look at line 16.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

All

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1

A.

Yes,

2

Q.

It says:

3

activity.

4

four-and-a-half,

5

1863

sir.
You know, your evaluations are based on your

So,

you know,

I can't give you a four -- a

a three-and-a-half if you have no activity.

That's what Delafuente said at that -- on that

6

occas1on on December 12, 2008 in the 81st precinct, right?

7

A.

8

based on -- evaluations are based on.

9

Q.

That's what he said.

But that's not all the activity is

Evaluations are based, at least in part, on your activity,

10

correct?

And if you don't have activity, you're not going to

11

get a good evaluation?

12

A.

13

sick record.

14

to supervision.

15

Q.

Part of it is based on activity.
Disciplinary record.

You got crime.

How well -- you take well

Go to the next tape, the 12 June 2008.

16

MS. GROSSMAN:

17

MR. MARUTOLLO:

18

You got

And play that one.

start at the beginning.

19

What's the timing, the excerpt?
It's 12:10 as to 13:28.

And we'll

(Audio recording played)

20

Q.

That's Sergeant Stukes or Lieutenant Delafuente?

21

A.

I believe Lieutenant Delafuente.

22

Q.

And he's saying that the XO -- is that the XO of the

23

borough or the XO of the precinct?

24

A.

I believe the XO of the precinct.

25

Q.

Came in and said he laid down a number.

Do you see that?

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

He said laid down a number.

Right?

2

A.

3

so-called number.

4

Q.

But that's what it says in the tape, correct?

5

A.

Correct.

6

Q.

186 4

That's what it says?

And that's a tape of a roll call?

That's what it says but I don't know anything about the

THE COURT:

7

8

Stop moving the mic.

9

You know what, would you do me a favor.

the whole time.

10

THE WITNESS:

11

THE COURT:

Just leave it forward.

Leave it forward

I talk too loud.
That's okay.

Go ahead.

12

Q.

And that's -- that tape is a tape of a roll call done on

13

the 12th of June 2008 by Lieutenant Delafuente in the 8lst

14

precinct, right?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And so he says:

17

going to tell you what it is.
But then he does give some numbers.

18
19

The XO has a number but I'm not actually

He said he wants

three seat belts, one cellphone, and eleven others.
Do you see that?

20
21

A.

I see that.

22

Q.

Pretty specific numbers, right?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

And the others, what's that refer to?

25

Summonses?

Do you know?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

250s?

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D429flo3
This is news to me.

1865

1

A.

There is no such thing as set numbers

2

in the precinct.

3

Q.

4

patrol,

5

then the eleven others.

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

And then --but it's your testimony that this is all news

8

to you.

9

A.

There was never a set number in the 31st precinct.

10

Q.

Well apparently on December -- on June 12, 2008 there was a

11

set number set by Lieutenant Delafuente in the roll call,

12

correct?

13

A.

And then he says, going forward, he says:

So if I was on

I'd be sure to get three seatbelts, one cellphone, and
That's what he says, right?

You never heard that discussion in the Slst precinct?

That's what it says.

14

THE COURT:

That's what he says.

15

THE WITNESS:

16

But that's not what I say.

17

THE COURT:

That's what he says.

All right.

18

Q.

Lieutenant Delafuente held what position in June of 2008?

19

A.

He was platoon commander.

20

Q.

So he was a platoon commander of what platoon?

21

A.

I believe the third platoon.

22

Q.

What shift?

23

A.

Three to eleven, three in the afternoon to eleven at night.

24

Q.

And so he was one of your senior supervisors in the 8lst

25

precinct, correct?

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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l

A.

I guess, yes.

2

Q.

Why don't we go to the next recording which is 13th of

3

January, 2009 which is a roll call from the 3:02 to 4:26.
(Audio recording played)

4

5

Q.

Who is -- is that Sergeant Reade talking?

6

A.

That's Lieutenant Delafuente.

7

Q.

So Lieutenant Delafuente.

8

13th of January 2009.

9

precinct, correct?

Okay.

So this -- this is on

This is a roll call in the 8lst

10

A.

Yes.

ll

Q.

So continue playing if you would.

12

(Audio recording played)

13

Q.

GLA is what?

Grand larceny auto, right?

14

A.

Yes, sir.

15

Q.

And is it true that at some point while you were the

16

commander of the 8lst precinct the borough began to supervise

17

the activity of the precinct in a more complete way?

18

Let me withdraw that question.

19

Is it true that at some point when you were the

20

commander of the 8lst precinct that the borough began to get

21

more involved in finding out what was going on within the

22

precincts?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

So what would happen was the platoon commanders of each

25

precinct would all go to a meeting at the borough office,

They had platoon command staff.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

186 6

1867

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1

correct?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And they would talk about everything, the activity,

4

everything?

5

A.

6

And the lieutenant was almost like the commanding officer.

7

would talk about his personnel and the crime trends.

8

Q.

9

tighter in regards to the accountability of the precinct,

It's all listed there, right?

They broke down the person's platoon as a mini precinct.
He

And you interpreted that as the borough getting tighter and

10

right?

11

A.

I don't believe I said that on tape but the borough was --

12

Q.

Do you agree with that?

13

A.

Holding them more accountable, yes.

14

Q.

But you agree they were getting tighter and tighter,

15

correct?

16

A.

Holding platoon commanders more accountable.

17

Q.

And being accountable in part meant being accountable for

18

their enforcement activity, correct?

19

A.

20

the whole platoon, how they were working.

21

Q.

And part of that was their enforcement activity?

22

A.

Enforcement to crime trends, yes.

23

Q.

And when we say enforcement activity, we're talking about

24

250s, C summonses, or summons and arrests, correct?

25

A.

They were looking to see how they were working the platoon,

Also looking at verticals,

if you have problems with

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

building verticals.

2

Domestic incident reports.

3

It's a very big topic.

4

Q.

5

and for summonses, correct?

6

A.

Looked at --

7

Q.

That's one of the things?

8

A.

Some of the things.

9

Q.

If you could go to the next tape.

10

Radio runs.

1868

Domestic violence, very big.

Are we making arrests on domestic.

It included, did it not, looking at the numbers for 250s

That's some of the things.
Which is 15 July 2008.

Which I believe is a short tape of 35 seconds to 50 seconds.

11

(Audio recording played)

12

Q.

So this is the Lieutenant Delafuente again, correct?

13

A.

Correct.

14

Q.

At a roll call in the 81st precinct, correct?

15

A.

Correct.

16

Q.

Do you know -- do you recall if you were present for that

17

role call?

18

A.

Yes,

19

Q.

So you recall being present for this particular role call?

20

A.

I was present.

21

minutes.

22

So I don't know.

23

Q.

24

250s out there.

25

Right?

I was.

I talked on this roll call for like seven

But, again, I might have walked in right after this.

So in this --this excerpt he says:

I want a couple of

That's what he says, right?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

A.

Yes.

1869

I could explain about the location, your Honor.

2

THE COURT:

Go ahead.

3

THE WITNESS:

4

THE COURT:

5

THE WITNESS:

6

shot in the back of 969 Gates.

7

until 3:00 in the morning.

8

We had five people shot.

9

lost her life.

Yeah, thank you.
Go ahead.
This is a week after we had five people
It was a barbecue that went on

There was DJs, double-parked cars.
An innocent young lady, 17-years-old,

You hear me talking on the tape at the same

10

time about other places in the city with the barbecues.

11

had a lot of violence there.
And the crime went unsolved.

12

But we

There was 35 witnesses.

So, again, the building was very

13

No one stepped forward.

14

nervous.

15

there to make sure they felt very good.

16

was a building across the street, all the same complex.

17

actually went across the street, in the same complex-- we had

18

two officers out there -- and they actually recovered a firearm

19

that's on this thing in the hallway.

20

The community was very nervous.

I put officers out
And my officers, there
They

So we get tips from the tenant board association.

21

They were very afraid what happened because the guy who they

22

believed who did the shooting, no one stepped forward, still

23

lived there.

24

afraid.

25

He was shot.

He was in a wheelchair.

They were

So my officers were put out there for a reason.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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D429flo3

1870

So, again, the 250, if they have reasonable suspicion

l

2

to stop someone, then they got to stop someone.

3

orders are not out there just to do 250s.

4

be omnipresent and make sure the block is safe.
THE COURT:

5

6

But their

They're out there to

The person does say I want a couple of

250s out there.
THE WITNESS:

7

He's says it.

8

it's out there.

9

Again, if it's out thnre,

coming back if there is no 250s.
THE COURT:

10
ll

If it's not out there, there is no punishment

that.

12

THE WITNESS:

l3

THE COURT:

14

I thought you were going to stop doing

I'm so sorry.
You're going to break it.

Leave it

forward.

15

THE WITNESS:

16

THE COURT:

Okay.
There you go.

17

Q.

You have a loud voice.

18

A.

I know I do.

19

Q.

Just sit up straight.

20

and forth.

21

A.

Sometimes I talk loud.

22

Q.

Whatever comfortable position you want to be in.

It's a curse unfortunately, so.

All right.

23

You don't have to keep going back

So, he says there:

24

250s.

25

I want a couple of

He doesn't say anything else about it.

He just says I

want a couple of 250s, right?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13
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Page 71 of 177

l

A.

But you hear me talk for eight minutes afterwards.

2

explain everything that's going on.

3

Q.

4

commander telling the troops that he wants a particular -- a

5

specific number, correct?

6

A.

He wants his officers engaged out there, yes.

7

Q.

But he said I want a couple of 250s.

8

right?

9

A.

1871

I

That's what I'm saying.

So that's, once again, at a roll call, the platoon

Yeah, he said that.

10

Q.

But, again, there was no punishment if

he didn't come back --

11

So that's two 250s,

All I'm asking is whether he said that.
THE COURT:

12
13

It's on the tape.

14

Q.

You don't need to ask him.

I've heard it.

That's it.

But he didn't qualify it in any way, right?

15

THE COURT:

The tape says what it says, Mr. Moore.

16

MR. MOORE:

All right, Judge.

17

Why don't you go now to the 1st November 2008 tape.

18

And the passage is from 2:12 to 3:50.

19

(Audio recording played)

20

Q.

So that's Lieutenant Delafuente, correct?

21

A.

Correct.

22

Q.

And that's at a roll call in the 8lst precinct on

23

November 1, 2008, correct?

24

A.

Correct.

25

Q.

Did you ever hear him make reference to the -- the

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

1872

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1

community, the people in the community of Bed-Stuy as "everyone

2

probably got a warrant," ever hear him use that before?

3

A.

4

98 percent of the people in the community are hard-working

5

people.

6

with.

7

Q.

8

what Lieutenant Delafuente --

9

A.

He never said that in front of me.

10

Q.

But he says it on the tape, correct?

Never heard him.

And if you listen to all my tapes,

I say

It's the two percent, the criminals my officers deal
I say it on every tape.

I'm not asking about what you say.

11

THE COURT:

12

THE WITNESS:

13

MR. MOORE:

Judge --

14

THE COURT:

I

I'm asking you about

You don't need to -He says it on the tape.

just got to watch the time here.

15

don't want this to last two months if it doesn't have to.

16

see it on the tape.

17

I

that question.

He said it on the tape.

I

That's the end of

18

MR. MOORE:

I understand, Judge.

19

THE COURT:

I'm not going to allow you to ask him

20

anymore whether it's on the tape.

21

MR. MOORE:

I'm not --

22

THE COURT:

Mr. Moorer

It's on the tape.

move on.

23

You cannot ask him if it's on the tape.

24

Q.

That's the end of

that.

25

Don't fight with me.

Did you ever hear any other officer in the precinct --

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

1873

withdraw that.

2

Do you think making a reference to somebody as

3

everybody -- you're working in Bed-Stuy where everyone's

4

probably got a warrant, that that's racial stereotyping.

5

you think that?

6

A.

I don't agree with that statement.

7

Q.

Okay.

8

A.

We had a very good relationship with the community.

9

community -THE COURT:

10
11

The

Do you think

that statement is racial stereotyping?
THE WITNESS:

12
13

That wasn't his question.

Do

No.

I don't think he meant it as racial

stereotyping.
THE COURT:

14
15

Q.

16

No.

He doesn't think so.

Go to 27 February 2009 roll call.

Next question.

6:21.
THE COURT:

17
18

The time is 2:35 to

Would the defense mind if we work from the

transcript only at this point, didn't hear the tape anymore?

19

MS. GROSSMAN:

20

THE COURT:

21

MS. GROSSMAN:

22

THE COURT:

23

Now what part do you want to focus on first?

24

Q.

So 27 February 2009.
2:35 to?

2:35 to 6:21.
You can

read it.

25

That's fine.

This is Lieutenant Delafuente, correct, at this roll call?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

1874

And it's on 27 February 2009.

3
4

And he says, urn to reiterate what the sergeant touched
on --

5

MS. GROSSMAN:

6

MR. MOORE:

7

Q.

8

get 250s.

9

Line number?

The beginning.

If you out on the footpost, you need activity.

business, okay.

10
11

You got to get Cs.

You got to

But you got to get community

And then he says a couple lines down, Please get out,
get some activity.

12

Do you see that?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

So Delafuente is telling the troops that he wants activity;

15

specifically, he wants 250s and Cs, correct?

16

A.

17

reading the newspaper.

18

Q.

19

that activity is to be able to demonstrate to the command

20

structure that you're attempting to deal with crime patterns,

21

correct?

22

A.

We wanted to keep crime down.

23

Q.

Would you answer that yes or no?

24

A.

Crime down and quality of life conditions.

25

we're out there for.

Yes.

He also said he doesn't want them sitting in the car

And one of the reasons that they -- that he and you want

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

That's what

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1875

1

Q.

So one of the reasons you and Delafuente would say go get

2

250s or go get Cs is so you can demonstrate to your superiors

3

that you're addressing crime conditions?

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

In your precinct.

6

A.

No.

He's telling them he wants them to work.

If it's out

7

there, and he observes it, he wants them to work.

That's what

8

he's telling these officers.

9

Q.

Would you agree with that?

Well he's also saying, if you look at line 24:

If you have

10

250s or if you have community visits, it shows that you are

11

making an attempt to deter crime, right?

12

A.

Where does it say that?

13

Q.

Do you see that?

14

THE COURT:

15

THE WITNESS:

Beginning on line 24.
Delafuente 701 all right.

16

directly.

17

Q.

Did I read that correctly?

18

A.

No.

That's

That's what it says on 24.

That's the wrong line.

I didn't know--

19

THE COURT:

I don't know where you are either.

20

MR. MOORE:

Line 24.

21

THE COURT:

Line 24 says 701, all right.

22

Are you on a different --

23

MR. MOORE:

No, no.

THE COURT:

The -- I see.

24
25

Going down the page.

That first part of line 24, the

first 24.
You have 250s or if you

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct

1

have community visits it shows that you are making an attempt

2

to deter crime.

1876

The first 24.

THE WITNESS:

3

Yes.

Community visits, yes.

4

Q.

And 250s, right?

5

A.

That's what he said.

6

Q.

And you're making an attempt to deter crime and you're

7

making a -- and that would be conveying to your superiors at

8

the borough that you're making an attempt to deter crime,

9

right?

10

A.

11

have reasonable suspicion to do 250s.

The officers know that.

12

He's saying if it's out there, do it.

But do community visits.

13

Q.

14

do a 250.

15

A.

16

He's talking to his officers.

17

Q.

18

an attempt to deter crime, right?

19

A.

20

there for shootings.

21

So he wants to make sure there is no more shootings.

22

Q.

23

He's telling the officers to do 250s.

That's not what he said.

Again, you have to

He doesn't say if it's out there

He says

That's how I'm taking this.

That's how I'm taking it.

If you have 250s, and we'll look good because it's making

You see before that it's about shootings.

They're out

There was a shooting there the other day.

Let me ask you if you agree with this.
When your superiors in the borough will discuss what's

24

going on in the precinct with you, they would want to see you

25

make what efforts are being made in the precinct to address
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1877

1

crime patterns, to deter crime, correct?

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

And one of the ways -- one of the things they'd look at is

4

whether there's 250s, arrests, and summonses, correct?

5

one of the things that they look at?

6

A.

They also look at in the area radio runs.
THE COURT:

7

8

But that's not fair to not answer--

that's one of the things.
THE WITNESS:

9

10

That's

One of the areas, sorry, your Honor.

That's one of the things they look at.

11

THE COURT:

12

THE WITNESS:

Okay.
Or one, two, three.

13

Q.

Move down to -- on this document to the sentence that

14

begins on line eleven, it's the second line eleven that appears

15

on the document.

16

talk to them, get a name, that's fine.

17

grab someone going in, one of the tenants going in, you know,

18

if they want to stop and talk to you, then get a name and a

19

number.

20

And it says:

If you want to venture down and
If you want to just

Do you see that?
I believe he's talking about community visits.

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

He's saying grab someone, one of the tenants going into the

23

building, right?

24

A.

25

to them, community visit -- put down a name on a piece of

In other words, stop them, right?

He's talking about community visits.

If they want to talk

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

paper.

2

1878

You did a community visit.
THE COURT:

I don't think this whole line of question

3

is productive.

4

saying.

5

man said what he said.

6

don't know what he meant.

7

This is what he said.

8

really meant was, that's not useful.

And generally I wouldn't allow that for a minute.

MR. MOORE:

9

10

He's telling us what he thinks the man is

He doesn't know what he meant.

The

You

You're just arguing with each other.

For him to interpret to say what he

I agree, Judge.

But I think, given that

these are people under his supervision.
THE COURT:

11

You want an interpretation of a simple

12

English sentence, you're getting his gloss on what somebody

13

else said.

It's an objectionable question.

14
15

That's not right.
So I'm sustaining my

own objection.

16

MR. MOORE:

I'll move on then.

17

THE COURT:

That's good.

18

Q.

Let's go to January 28,

19

roll call.

2009.

Which is the four to twelve

The time is 24:29 to 25:50.

20

THE COURT:

21

THE WITNESS:

22

THE COURT:

23

THE WITNESS:

24

THE COURT:

25

THE WITNESS:

You found it?

You know where he is?

What line?
Sorry?
This one.

I just want to see what line.

As long as you know where we are.
Thank you.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Looking at line 19.

1879

This is again --who is speaking here.

l

Q.

2

This is Delafuente?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

He says, beginning on line 19:

5

to get some orders that you may not like.

6

instructions.

7

whatever, you know,

8

like he said,

You're going to get

You're going to get disciplinary action,
you got to just pick up your work because,

I don't want to hurt you.

All right.

Is he referring there to orders meaning-- I'm just

9

10

So, you know, you're going

going to ask him.

And if he says

ll

THE COURT:

He doesn't know what he's referring

12

MR. MOORE:

I don't know that he doesn't know.

l3

THE COURT:

I know.

You can't be in somebody else's

14

mind.

He can start giving you his own theories and

15

interpretations.

16

anybody else.

17

another person say what another person meant.

I don't know how that helps,

But he doesn't know.

frankly,

you or

And we don't usually let

So you can't -- you don't

MR. MOORE:

All right.

20

THE COURT:

I won't let him say what he thinks the

21

other fellow meant.

22

That's it.

18
19

know.

I'll figure out what I

think he meant.

23

MR. MOORE:

All right,

Judge.

24

THE COURT:

He said what he said.

25

MR. MOORE:

Maybe what Delafuente comes if he

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS,
[phone]

P.C.

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1

testifies we can ask him.
THE COURT:

You can ask him what was in

Although he's the commander of the

his mind.

4

5

That's right.

MR. MOORE:

2

3

1880

precinct.

So I think it's relevant.

6

But I'll move on.

7

THE COURT:

It's never relevant to ask him what he

8

thinks somebody else meant.

9

you'd be the first to object if the other side did it.

10
11

MR. MOORE:

My question wasn't what he thinks.

My

question is what he understands that language to mean.

12
13

We don't allow those questions and

THE COURT:

That's a rephrasing.

That's the first

time you phrased it that way.

14

MR. MOORE:

Well --

15

THE COURT:

Yeah, it is.

16

All of the other times it was:

17

meant when he said.

18

MR. MOORE:

19

Q.

What do you think he

And that's just the wrong question.
I'll move on, Judge.

January 29, 2009 roll call.

Do you see that?

20

THE COURT:

That's the next one.

21

MR. MOORE:

The time is 6:20 to 6:48.

22

one on the list.

23

THE COURT:

Short one.

24

MR. MOORE:

It's the short one.

25

Q.

Do you see it?

Do you have that in front of you?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

It is the next

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1

THE COURT:

2

THE WITNESS:

3

THE COURT:

4

MR. CHARNEY:

I can try to help you.

5

THE WITNESS:

This is where I left off.

18 81

6

MR. MOORE:

Mixed them up.

This one.

May I show him my copy, Judge, to speed it

THE COURT:

Yes.

It's the one that says we need 250s.

We need arrests.

11

MR. MOORE:

12

Just read that portion there that begins:

13

So

along, if that's okay.

9

10

I don't have it.

I think might have put it all the way in the back.

7

8

January 29.

Do you see that?
We need

250s.

14

THE WITNESS:

15

MR. MOORE:

16

THE WITNESS:

This is Lieutenant Delafuente, right?
Yes.
We need 250s.

17

of life enforcement.

18

in a car, please get to them.

19

please.

20

Q.

22

correct?

25

We need-- if you're

If you're on a foot, get three

That's community visits.

That's about it.

What else

So that's a mention of specific numbers at that roll call,

THE COURT:

23
24

Community visits.

Quality

do we have?

21

We need arrests.

Those are numbers.

Two and three are

numbers.
THE WITNESS:

Yes.

Two and three are numbers.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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THE COURT:

l

2

THE WITNESS:

4

THE COURT:

But when he said two and three
Forget that.

I didn't ask that.

You got

to listen to my question.
What does it mean to you when he said:

6

7

What does it mean to you that he said we

need 250s, we need arrests?

3

5

1882

We need 250s,

we need arrests.

8

What does that mean to you?

9

THE WITNESS:

He wants the officers to be out there

10

engaged.

ll

Q.

In enforcement activity?

12

A.

Enforcement activity.

13

Q.

And when he says in the car, the two or the three,

14

that -- do you -- do you understand that to mean community

15

visits or other enforcement activity?

16

A.

is

I think it meant community visits.

17

THE COURT:

18

THE WITNESS:

19

THE COURT:

20

THE WITNESS:

21

THE COURT:

22

THE WITNESS:

No, not, again, what you think i t meant.
It meant community visits.
What it means to you.
To me it means community visits.
All right.
I got to start remembering to answer

23

that way.

24

Q.

25

October 2008 and it's a --again, it's Lieutenant Delafuente

Why don't you turn to the transcript of the tape on 30

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

1883

and it's from 4:20 to 6:30.
Do you have that before you?

2

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

30 October 2008.

And he says here at the bottom

5

THE COURT:

What line?

6

MR. MOORE:

Six lines up from the bottom beginning on

THE COURT:

Okay.

7

line 13.

8

9
10

Q.

If you see something,

just do some 250s get all the fucking

riffraff off the corner.

11

Do you see that?

12

A.

Yes, I do.

13

Q.

What does that mean to you?

14

A.

Again, if you see -- he's talking about when you do 250s,

15

he's talking to these guys, it's reasonable suspicion.

16

know what he meant about riffraff.

17

are too populated, ask the people to move off the corner.

18

Q.

Ever hear him use that term?

19

A.

Riffraff, no.

20

riffraff before.

21

Q.

22

calls in the 31st precinct?

23

A.

Riffraff, no.

24

Q.

But apparently Lieutenant Delafuente used it, correct?

25

I don't

He's talking if the corners

I don't think I ever heard anybody use

Did you ever use that term when you addressed the roll

THE COURT:

Well, that's established.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

I heard it.

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l

THE WITNESS:

2

THE COURT:

1884

That's the way it's transcribed.
No.

No.

I heard it.

We're not

3

questioning the transcription anymore.

All the counsel have

4

listened.

5

Q.

6

it's a roll call with Delafuente and the time is 13:09 to

7

14:36?

They stipulated that's what it said.

Now, the next entry on the sth of November,

8

MS. GROSSMAN:

9

MR. MOORE:

Okay.
2008.

The

What's the time?

13:09 to 14:36 I believe.

10

Q.

Do you have that in front of you?

11

A.

Yes,

12

Q.

If you go down to the -- begins on line 4 and about the

13

middle of the passage.

14

get.

15
16

I do.

A sentence that begins:

You've got to

Do you see that?
A.

Yeah, you got -- yeah.

17

THE COURT:

I'm sorry.

18

MR. MOORE:

Line 4.

19

THE WITNESS:

20
21

Q.

What line was that?

Yes, I see it.

Do you got that?
He says:

You've got to get them moving right from the

22

start because if you get too big of a crowd there, you know,

23

they're going to get out of control.

24

think that they own the block.

25

own the block.

All right.

And they're going to

We own the block.

They don't

They might live there but we own

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

the block.

All right.

Page 85 of 177

1885

We own the streets here.

Do you agree with that?

2

3

A.

No,

I don't.

Could I answer -- how you feel,

are you

4

asking me?

5

Q.

I'm asking whether you agreed with that.

6

A.

I don't agree with that, no.

7

Q.

And that would be inappropriate comments for a supervisor

8

to make.
You think it's funny?

9

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

You were laughing.

12

I don't think it's funny.

That would be an inappropriate comment to make for a

13

supervisor in the 81st precinct, correct?

14

A.

He didn't mean we own the block.

15

Q.

You don't know what he meant.

16

A.

You're asking me
THE COURT:

17
18
19
20
21

I'm telling you--

answer.

What it meant to you is what you may

That's all you can answer.
THE WITNESS:

What it meant to me was the criminals

don't own the block.
If you read the whole testimony and the tape, Chauncey

22

and Howard the day before a cop got assaulted by three people.

23

They made arrests.

24
25

He's talking about that.

So he's talking the officers -- the criminals don't
own the block.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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The good people.

l

1886

We work for the people of the

2

community.

They go to work everyday.

That's who we're there

3

for.

4

own the block.

5

Q.

6

who the good people are and who the criminals are?

7

always certain of that, right?

8

A.

He's not-- we don't own the block.

The criminals don't

That's what he's trying to tell them.

You're always certain when you see people in the community
You're

No.

9

THE COURT:

Okay.

So -- one more.

10

MR. MOORE:

You wanted to break for

ll

THE COURT:

Go ahead.

12

MR. MOORE:

Let me just ask one question.

13

Q.

When you see a group of kids on a street corner, three,

14

four, five kids, is your assumption that they are criminals or

15

they're just good people?

16

A.

I think you have to do an observation.

17

Q.

Right.

18

So you can't make an assumption one way or the other,

19

whether they're riffraff or whether they are good or bad

20

people?

21

A.

22

are they good people or bad people.

You're asking me if I see three or four kids on the corner,

I'm telling you, you have to make an observation for a

23
24

while before you know what's going on.

25

You just don't move

into it.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

2

THE COURT:

Okay.

With that we'll pick up at about

five after two.

3

THE WITNESS:

I'm sorry, your Honor.

4

THE COURT:

5

(Luncheon recess)

No problem.

No problem.

6
7

8
9

10
11

12
13

14
15
16

17
18

19
20
21
22
23
24

25

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

18 8 7

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1

AFTERNOON SESSION

2

18 8 8

2:10 p.m.

3

THE COURT:

4

Mr. Moore.

5

MR. MOORE:

6

DIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED

7

BY MR. MOORE:

8

Q.

9

call -- the role call on January 29, 2009.

10

Please be seated.

Thank you, Judge.

Inspector Mauriello, can you turn to the transcript for the
The time is 6:56 to

9:03?

11

THE COURT:

January 29, 2009?

12

MR. MOORE:

29 January 2009.

13

THE WITNESS:

I got it.

14

Q.

Sergeant Weiss was squad supervisor at the 81st precinct

15

when you were there?

16

A.

He was a squad supervisor and then he was an assistant ICO.

17

Q.

Do you see on the middle of the page there, beginning at

18

line 11 it says:

19

burglary, you do a stop, or a show-up, or you stop somebody, do

20

the 250.

21

it damn near idiot proof from when I got on the job.

22

Any radio runs you go to, robbery or

It takes two seconds to do the damn form.

They made

Do you see that?

23

A.

Yes,

I do.

24

Q.

Did you understand those comments to mean -- do you

25

understand those comments to mean that if you're responding to

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1889

1

a radio run about a robbery or a burglary it would be useful to

2

have the 250 to show some record of having responded to it?

3

A.

No.

4

THE COURT:

5

What does it mean to you?

THE WITNESS:

To me it means if you have a -- how can

6

I say -- you have a description of somebody, all right.

And

7

that person matches the description by height, the clothing,

8

then he expects somebody to be stopped if he matches the

9

description.

If you have a complainant in the back of the car

10

for the robbery, and they point out someone, then you go over

11

to talk to that person.

12

a 250.
THE COURT:

13
14

you said.

I'm sorry.

I didn't hear the end of what

If they say it's not
THE WITNESS:

15

And if they say that's not the one, do

If they complainant says to the officers

16

I think that's the one who robbed me and then you get out of

17

the car and they say, Oh, no, it's not him, then you got to do

18

a stop, question and frisk anyway.

19

THE COURT:

20

THE WITNESS:

Then you do a 250?
You do a 250, yes.

21

Q.

It says you do a stop or a show-up or you stop somebody so

22

he's referring to a show-up and a stop of somebody.

23

how you understand that?

24

A.

25

go into a robbery in progress or a burglary in progress and

Is that

The way I understand it is if you go to a radio run or you

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

there's someone there that matches a description of the 911

2

call, that's the one you're going to stop.

3

Q.

1890

Do you agree

4

THE COURT:

And you do a 250?

5

THE WITNESS:

And you do a 250, yes.

6

Q.

7

form is damn near idiot proof?

8

A.

I don't know.

9

Q.

It's a check-off form?

10

A.

It's a check-off form now.

11

Q.

If you could turn to the recording on 12 October 2009.

12

With sergeant Huffman.

13

MS. GROSSMAN:

14

MR. MOORE:

15

Do you agree that -- with his comments there that the 250

It's mostly fill in boxes now.

And the time is 5:57 to seven?
Seven what?

700 I think.

Let me see.

Yes.

7:00.

5:12 to seven minutes.

16

Do you have that?

17

THE WITNESS:

18

Q.

19

Sergeant Huffman.

20

the 81st?

21

A.

Yes, I do.

And at the beginning in the middle of the page it says,
Sergeant Huffman was another supervisor in

Yes.

22

MS. GROSSMAN:

23

MR. MOORE:

Line, please.

Line three.

24

Q.

You know, and if you all try to do a canvass or something,

25

try to get at least a couple of 250s and put robbery down just
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

to say that we was out there.

2
3

responding to a robbery that it's important -THE COURT:

MR. MOORE:

Q.

I've told you, you

THE COURT:
Q.

I'm sorry.

Do you understand him to mean

8

9

Object to the form.

can't do it that way.

6

7

If stopping somebody get a 250.

Do you understand him to mean there that if you're

4

5

1891

No.

What is your understanding?

What does it mean to you?
THE COURT:

10

Right.

11

Q.

When he says --

12

A.

She.

13

Q.

When she says, I'm sorry.

Thank you.

14

Withdraw that.

15

Does it mean to you that if you respond to a robbery

16

on a radio call or something like that, that it's important to

17

at least get some 250s to show that there was some police

18

response?

19

A.

Of course not.

20

THE COURT:

21

THE WITNESS:

Of course not?
No.

22

Q.

What does it mean to you?

23

A.

It means if you're going to a radio -- 911 call of someone

24

doing a robbery, and someone matches the description, then I

25

expect a 250 if the person matches the description, you
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

1892

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1

reasonably suspect that might have been the person that did it.

2

Just not get a 250 for the sake of getting a 250.
THE COURT:

3

4

No.

But it says just to say that we was

out there.

5

THE WITNESS:

6

THE COURT:

7

THE WITNESS:

8

THE COURT:

9

What does the statement mean to you?

10
11

Yeah.

I don't agree.

You what?
I don't agree with that.
Nobody asked you whether you agree.

She did seem to say, show the 250 to show we were out
there.
THE WITNESS:

12

Yeah.

13

take out of that statement.

14

THE COURT:

15

THE WITNESS:

16

THE COURT:

And he said what do you think,

17

THE WITNESS:

No.

Okay.
What did that statement mean to you?

It

seems pretty obvious.

18

No.

Yeah, it means if somebody matches the

19

description of the robbery, that's who you stop and do a 250.

20

Q.

21

to the robbery, even if there isn't a justification for a 250?

22

It could mean that as well, right?

23

A.

I don't agree with that, no.

24

Q.

No, you don't agree with it.

25

well?

Or it could mean there is police activity shown in response

But it could mean that as

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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THE COURT:

1

You're just in the wrong forum.

2

going to let you ask that question.

3

means to him.

4

1893

I'm not

I'm going to take.

5

All you can ask is what it

What does he understand it to mean.

That's all

I don't know why you want to ask him, because it's

6

clear to me what that person said.

7

interpretation.

8

Q.

9

again, this is Sergeant Huffman.

Confusing was getting his

I see what it means.

Why don't you turn to the 24 October 2009 roll call.

And,

And the time is 4:41 to 5:30.

10

A.

I have it.

11

Q.

You have it?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And looking at the beginning at line 1 it says:

14

regardless of what the sectors that's backing them or whatever,

15

we got to stop a couple of people whenever the description

16

comes over and do some 250s.

17

Because like you all know he's at home sleeping in his bed

18

listening to the radio.

19

But

Make it look good for him.

Is that referring to you?

20

A.

I guess so, but that's not true.

21

Q.

Did you used to listen to the radio when you were at home?

22

A.

In bed sleeping, no.

23

Q.

Not necessarily sleeping but when you were at home.

24

A.

If I was going to work.

25

to the radio.

If I'm driving into work, I listen

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

Q.

2

important to simply, if you're responding

3

description,

4

responded?

5

A.

6

description, you should get a 250.

7

I believe.

8

Q.

1894

Does that --does that statement mean to you that it's

Again,

That's what she's saying.

What's a 30 when it says:

Okay, so if you

hear a 30 come over, what's a 30?
THE WITNESS:

That's a robbery in progress.

Sometimes

with force or a weapon.
THE COURT:

13
14

if you got a description, the person matches the

THE COURT:

11

12

it's important to get some 250s to show that you

Let's go to--

9

10

if you have a

Q.

Okay.

Now, turn to the 13th of March,

2009.

THE COURT:

Wait a minute.

17

MR. MOORE:

I'm sorry, Judge?

18

THE COURT:

This is a good one.

15
16

19

This a good one.

so --

I don't know why

you're skipping this one.
You hear a 30 come over, you don't hear nobody being

20
21

stopped,

22

nobody is giving a damn about 30s coming over.

23

people.

24

report.

25

It says

nothing or whatever, and then he's going to feel like

Get 250s.

Drop a couple

That's the activity in your activity

Do you want to ask him about that one?

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

THE WITNESS:

2

THE COURT:

Okay.

3

MR. MOORE:

Thank you, Judge.

4

THE COURT:

1895

You're welcome.

5

Q.

6

Stukes.

I don't know what she's talking about.

Why don't you turn to 13 March 2009.
And it goes from 4:32 to 5:20.

7

MS. GROSSMAN:

8

MR. MOORE:

9

MS. GROSSMAN:

March 13.

13 March 2009.

MR. MOORE:

10

Roll call of Sergeant

The excerpt again?

4:32 to 5:20.

11

Q.

Do you have that?

12

A.

Yes, sir.

13

Q.

And it says:

14

speaking, and he says at the roll call:

15

walking down the street, move them along.

16

you can move.

17

to be an asshole, whatever you want to call it, make a move.

18

If they won't move, call me over and lock them up dis con.

19

big deal.

20

Come get them.

21

If you see --this is Sergeant Stukes
If you see guys
Two or three guys

You can't move fifteen, all right.

We could leave them there all night.

If you want

No

Come get them.

Does that mean to you, reading that, when you see a

22

small group of people on the street, if you don't move them

23

you're going to get a larger group that's going to congregate?

24

A.

I think what

25

Q.

No.

what I'm interpreting this --

What it means to you.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

A.

2

think it says if you have fifteen people, you can't move them

3

by itself.

4

like it means, reading this.

5

wants to move it.

6

corner.

7

Q.

Nothing illegal about congregating on the corner?

8

A.

1896

No.

Two or three guys you can move.

You gotta call for backup.

THE COURT:

10

THE WITNESS:

11

THE COURT:

12

I

That's what it looks

If you two or three people, he

He doesn't want them congregating on the

But, agaln,

9

You can't move fifteen.

it's observation.

What's a dis con?
Disorderly conduct.
So he's saying, does that mean to you,

lock them up and charge them with disorderly conduct?
THE WITNESS:

13

I guess what he means, disorderly

14

conduct,

I guess blocking pedestrian is a subsection in

15

disorderly conduct.

16

group.

17

Q.

18

usually leave people in the precinct all night for disorderly

19

conduct, right?

20

A.

Of course not.

21

Q.

So you-- that's not something you would agree with in

22

terms of what to do, right?

23

A.

24

that person has a warrant, he's an arrest.

25

precinct all night, he goes down to central booking.

I

But that's with a large group, a large

guess fifteen people he's talking about.

When he says you can leave them there all night, you don't

No.

But, again,

it's a hypothetical.

And we don't know if
He might be in the

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

So I

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1

mean,

2

Q.

Well, you don't usually lock people up for dis con?

3

A.

No,

4

night.

5
6

you know,

1897

no.

it•s an open-end question.

I'm saying but you said would you leave him in all

You don't know whether the guy is wanted.
THE COURT:

What about a couple lines down it says:

It's still a number.

7

He says hounds a lot.

THE WITNESS:

8

It keeps the hounds off.

means investigations.

They're in, coming in here.

Then he says hounds,

9

One part hounds

10

from nagging.

11

it keeps the hounds off.

12

I guess he means from barking,

a lot.

13
14

THE COURT:

Hounds to him is nagging.

It's still a number.

So he says
He says it

It keeps the hounds

off.
What's he talking about?

15
16

You don't want to nag them to work.

What number?

What's does

that mean to you?

17

THE WITNESS:

18

THE COURT:

Read the whole thing here.
Somebody is stopped, they refuse, put down

19

refuse, put the description down, or whatever the case may be.

20

It's still a number.

21

THE WITNESS:

It keeps the hounds off.
We want -- again, what I expect or we

22

want the person stopped that we reasonably suspect committed a

23

crime had committed a crime.

24

That's what they know,

25

Q.

That's what I take out of it.

so.

Does ''keep the hounds off'' also mean keep the borough off

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

1898

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you, keep the chief of -- the XO, Chief Marino and the other

2

people in the borough off your back?

3

A.

4

meant inspections.

5

in here.

6

Q.

Does it mean something other than inspections to you?

7

A.

I don't even know what hounds are.

8

says it over and over, hounds is like hounding, hounding, he

9

didn't want to hound, he didn't want to nag, he doesn't want to

The one statement when he says, the borough, the hounds, he
If you listen, the inspections are coming

I told you they're coming in here.

10

keep nagging guys.

11

there working.

12

repeating.

13

Q.

14

have that one actually.

15

A.

January 2008?

16

Q.

1 July 2008.

The bottomline is he

So I guess he means you're hounding, keep

Why don't you turn to the 1 July 2008.

I don't know if you

..

6:58 to 8:00.

Do you have that?

17
18

He wants them to work, be engaged, be out

A.

Who is supposed to be talking on that?
I got November and I got January.

19
20

Q.

Let me just show it to you.

All right.

Because I don't

21

think you have that in your pile there.

22

A.

Okay.

23

Q.

I'm going to call your attention to line seven where it

24

begins:

25

move.

I don't care how many guys are out there.
They won't move,

I'll put them in handcuffs.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

They got to
They want

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1

to roll,

I'll roll with them.

2

move all right.

3

asshole.

4

face.

5

They're going to

the trouble later on.

Let them know you're out there.

They going to do something.

Whatever the occasion.

6

No biggie.

Be an

Shine a light in their

Inconvenience them.

It saves

And that's

7

A.

What line?

8

Q.

Beginning on line -- right there.

I don't care.

And that's Sergeant Stukes again, right?

9

I guess he's talking about, before that, Bainbridge 120

10

A.

11

Chauncey.

12

large group of eight, ten, twelve people.

13

nicely, we want you guys to move off the corner, please.

14

Q.

15

group of eight people, right?

16

A.

A large group there.

So if he's talking about a
And you're asking

There's nothing illegal about being on the corner, even a

No.

No.
It gets to a point where it's blocking pedestrian

17

18

traffic.

19

Q.

20

traffic, right?

21

A.

He's not saying move them if they're blocking pedestrian

I understand.

22

This is all talk-- in roll call he's talking, he's

23

not explaining everything.

24

Q.

You would do a better job of explaining it, right?

25

A.

No.

I mean there's a lot, when you come to me,

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

I could

1899

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1

explain a little better what I meant.

2

Q.

19 0 0

All right.
The phrase that concerns me that I want you to tell me

3
4

what it means is where he says:

Be an asshole.

5

in their face.

6

A.

I don't know what he meant.

7

Q.

What does he mean by that?

8

A.

I don't know what he meant by that.

9

Q.

What does that mean to you?

10

A.

What does that mean to me?

11

Q.

Mm-hmm.

12

A.

It means be a police officer.

13

walk your footpost.

14

Shine a light

to me.

Inconvenience them.

You have a footpost.

And be omnipresent.

You

That's what it means

Nothing about shining something in someone's eyes.

15
16

don't know whether it's nighttime, daytime.

17

Q.

19

street?

20

A.

I don't know what

its means.

18

We

Does it mean to you to be rude and racist to people on the

No.
My civic complaints were down.

21

My officers --

22

Q.

I didn't hear what you said.

23

A.

All my roll calls,

24

people in the community are hard-working people.

25

percent we deal with,

I talk to my officers,

98 percent of the
It's the two

criminals that my officers deal with all

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 101 of 177
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1

19 o 1

the time.
And,

2

again,

just because they're two percent, they

3

still have to do something wrong.

4

Reasonable suspicion.

5

Q.

6

frisks,

7

A.

Can I tell you honestly with this?

8

Q.

Do you recall --

9

A.

I can tell you right now.

My officers will stop them.

And sometimes that 98 percent complain about stops and
right?
I was in there --

I was in there over

10

two-and-a-half years.

All right.

Not one time did I have

11

anybody from politicians, community board,

12

community council meetings when I went there, not one person

13

ever had a problem until an article came out.

14

didn't have a problem.

15

work hard out there.

16

Q.

17

complaints?

18

A.

19

recordings on there.

20

Q.

21

start complaining about -- let me finish the question -- start

22

complaining about stop and frisk?

23

A.

You know what

24

Q.

Can you answer that yes or no.

25

A.

To tell you the truth,

I could say

And, again, they

My officers are very respectful.

They

And then when the article came out, then you started to get

No, you know when the article --the tapes.

They had tape

When the article came out, did the people in the community

I really don't know.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

But I can tell

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l

1902

you honestly

2

THE COURT:

That's the answer.

3

MR. MOORE:

If you don't know, you don't know.

4

move on.

5

Q.

6

So

5:46 to 6:28.

And, again, looking at 23 November 2008, the roll call,

7

MS. GROSSMAN:

8

MR. MOORE:

9

MS. GROSSMAN:
MR. MOORE:

10

I'm sorry.

What's the tape?

23 November 2008.
And the excerpt.

5:46 to 6:28.

ll

Q.

That's apparently Sergeant Stukes, although it doesn't

12

reflect it on this particular page.
Look at line 16 where it says:

13
14

corner, make them move.

15

up.

16

A.

Done deal.

If they are on a

They don't want to move, you lock them

You can always articulate later.

If they're on the corner --

17

MS. GROSSMAN:

18

MR. MOORE:

I'm sorry.

Yes.

November 23, 2008?

5:46 to 6:28.

19

Q.

Do you have it in front of you, Officer?

20

A.

Yes,

21

Q.

Does that mean to you that you -- the police can just go

22

and move people off the corner.

23

move, you can lock them up for no reason?

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

When it says you can always articulate later, does that

sir.

And if they don't want to

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1903

1

mean you can arrest them and then you can come up with a reason

2

to justify the arrest later on?

3

A.

I'd say no.

4

Q.

Is that what it means to you, that -- these words, though?

5

A.

Again, I don't know what he means with these words.

6

have to ask him.
THE COURT:

7

8

words.

But what does it mean to you?

His

What do his words mean to you?
THE WITNESS:

9

Right.

You

It looks to me -- again, you do it

10

they don't want to move, you lock them up.

11

Courtesy, Professional, Respect.

12

respect.

13

Again, CPR.

You always treat them with

If the officer tells the guy to move and the guy gets

14

disrespectful,

I guess this is what I'm reading into it, if

15

he's going to arrest him, he's going to arrest him.

16

what you're asking me here.
Does it happen?

17

No, it doesn't happen.

I was referring to the statement that says:

18

Q.

19

That's

You can always

articulate later.

20

Doesn't that mean to you that you can come up with a

21

justification for locking them up later?

22

A.

23

Online booking sheet.

24

Q.

25

articulate, which means as I understand it to -- does it mean

I guess he means do your paperwork later.

Articulate.

It doesn't say you can fill out the paperwork.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

It says

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1

to you to give a reason for why they were arrested later?

2

A.

(No response).

3

Q.

Is that what it means to you?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

I'm sorry.

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

I know we're -- want to just try to speed a little bit

8

1904

through this.

That's what it looks like.
You guess?

That's what it looks like.

Look at the -- at the entry for

9

10

December of 2008.

11

Sergeant Stukes again.

12

Roll call at 12:20 to

the transcript of 8
12:20 to 15:00

Do you have that before you?

13

A.

Yes, I do.

14

Q.

And why don't you read to -- well let me read it into the

15

record here.

16

of the page.

17

On line -- the second line ten, about the middle

Do you see that?

18

A.

Second line ten?

19

Q.

Line ten up on the top and there's a line ten--

20

A.

Yes, I see.

21

Q.

It says:

22

good, you don't like the 81, but you know that someone will

23

make a phonecall and it will put a jam ln your whole wrench.

24

And now we're, Oh, yeah, this guy's trouble I gotta watch out

25

for this person.

You may leave here and think it's all well and

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13
D429flo3
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1
2
3

Page 105 of 177

Do you see that?
A.

Yes.
(Continued on next page)

4

5
6

7
8
9

10
11

12
13

14
15
16

17

18
19
20
21
22

23
24
25

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

19 05

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 106 of 177
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1

Q.

2

1906

Then going over again to the next page, again on line 10,

it says

3

THE COURT:

Line 10 on the next page?

4

MR. MOORE:

On the back of the page.

5

THE WITNESS:

I have got it on the front.

It's on the

6

bottom I think.

7

Q.

8

then when you get there they make a phone call.

9

screw this guy over here, keep him on this boat, put him in the

Anyway, where it begins,

You don't need that.

10

cemetery.

11

job is so easy,

12

"They could ship you somewhere and
Yeah, yeah,

Give him a weird tour.

This

just keep the hounds off."

Does that mean to you that if you don't meet these

13

performance standards, the failure to do that is going to

14

follow you throughout your career in the police department?

15

A.

16

labeled competent, not incompetent.

17

out there, you want to be labeled competent.

18

life, someone wants to be labeled competent, not incompetent,

19

because your reputation precedes you.

20

Q.

21

you do.

22

works for you.

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

What he is saying is, if you don't do the activity, that

25

reputation is going to follow you throughout your career, and

If you read before that,

it says about, you want to be
It says, If you're working
In any walk of

Actually, to be fair, he's referring to the activity that
He says up there, on line 1 he says,
OK?"

"The activity

You see that, you see where he says that?

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

officers are going to make it difficult for you later on.

2

that what that means to you?

3

A.

4

difficult for you?

5

Q.

6

form 1:20 to 1:38.

7

A.

Yes,

8

Q.

Sergeant Stukes saying, "You're going to be 120 Chauncey.

9

You're going to be a vehicle out there.

19 0 7

No.

Is

Where does it say officers are going to make it
I don't take that out of that.

Look at 8 December 2008, the roll call with Sergeant Stukes
Do you have that before you?

I do.

Shake everybody up.

10

Anybody moving, anybody coming out of that building, 250,

11

verticals, and give me a couple of community visits.

12

as well."

13

C summons

So does that mean to you that Sergeant Stukes is

14

saying anybody coming out of that building 120 Chauncey should

15

get stopped?

16

A.

17

reason to approach, you approach; reasonable suspicion to stop

18

someone, you stop someone.

19

an arrest, I expect an arrest to be made.

20

summonable offense,

21

goes on and says, do 250s, do verticals.

22

long story short,

23

respectful of the work.

24

Q.

25

basically take enforcement action, isn't that what that means

No.

The officers are trained, if you have articulable

If you have probable cause to make
If you have got a

I expect the condition to be corrected.
He's telling them,

I want you out there, be engaged, be

He is saying, anybody coming out of that building,

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

He

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1908

1

to you?

2

A.

It doesn't mean that to me.

3

Q.

120 Chauncey is a building that you said earlier you were

4

concerned about, right?

5

A.

6

shot at in front of there, people stabbed.

7

Q.

Is that a public housing project?

8

A.

It's an independent building, four buildings together.

9

Q.

Is 98 percent of the population there good, decent people?

10

A.

Yes, it is.

11

Q.

You don't want to stop everybody coming out of 120

12

Chauncey, right?

13

A.

Of course not.

14

Q.

So would you agree with me that's a poor choice of words by

15

Sergeant Stukes, anybody coming out of that building?

16

A.

17

from my experience and my officers, I know they didn't stop

18

everybody coming out of that building.

19

Q.

20

to 5:05, and it's you speaking, right?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

DI Mauriello, that's you?

23

A.

Yes, sir.

24

Q.

You say at the roll call, line 15, "If you don't work and I

25

get the same names back again here, I'm moving you.

Of course.

We had numerous people shot there.

We had cops

There's over 1,000 people in there.

It's a poor choice of words, but I know Sergeant Stukes,

Let's go to 28 October 2008.

This is a roll call from 4:07

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

All right?

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1

You're going to go to another platoon.

2

to be."

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

Those are your words at the roll call, correct?

5

A.

1909

Yes.

6

THE WITNESS:

7

THE COURT:

That's how it's going

Could I explain, your Honor.
Wait for the lawyer to ask a question.

8

A.

Those are my words, yes.

9

Q.

All right.

Explain what you mean by that.

10

A.

All right.

Again, we had an incident two days before that.

11

All right?

12

before that and four of my officers were caught off post by

13

inspections on midnight, and I had to move them to another tour

14

to be closely more supervised.

15

call we play later,

16

engaged,

17

all of your capabilities.

18

It's on another tape.

We had an incident two days

And I tell them,

in the roll

I want them to work harder, be more

if you want to get back to your platoon and work to

Now, what I am saying, again, if you read the whole

19

context here, the sergeant is complaining that the cops on

20

overtime didn't want to get out of the car.

21

investigation is working.

22

because they didn't get out of the car and weren't working,

23

am going to transfer them like the other guys who are

24

transferred because of poor supervision on a platoon.

25

So an

So I said, if I get those names

Now, was anybody transferred for this?

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Nobody was

I

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1

ever transferred to another platoon.

2

Q.

3

this is you speaking.

1910

Turn to the roll call on January 28, 2009, and once again,

4

The time is 20:25 to 22:07.

You're speaking here about how many summonses the

5

squad writes, correct?

6

A.

It had to do with traffic stops.

7

Q.

You say there, going down to toward the bottom of the page,

8

line 8, you say, "Just do the old -- go through the motion and

9

get your numbers anyway, but don't be the one to be caught out

10

there.

11

evaluation.

12

yelling at every CO about who gave these points to this guy,

13

this guy, or this girl's no good."

14

Marino is taking it serious, looking at everybody's
He's yelling at me about the points and he's

Those are your words, correct?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

So, basically, what you're saying, if I understand it

17

correctly, to your officers is,

18

will keep the hounds off, right?

19

A.

No.

20

Q.

Go to the entry on 31 October 2008.

21

9:05 to 9:50.

22

A.

OK.

23

Q.

You say here, beginning on line 14, "Just circle around.

24

Again, any groups, I expect you guys to bring in any groups.

25

want them cuffed, brought in here.

just do the numbers and that

That's not what I meant.

I'm sorry, 6:15 to 8:18.

It's an excerpt from
Do you got that?

I got five sectors.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

I got

I

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1911

1

guys on foot.

2

New Year's Eve.''

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

So you are referring to bringing people in as herding them,

5

correct?

6

A.

7

thing, you want me to start from the first?

No.

I want them herded in here like

Those are your words,

correct?

I can explain what I meant by herding.

THE COURT:

8

9

I got overtime.

The whole

I don't know that he has asked you a

question just yet.

10

Q.

Later on down in this passage, on line 6 you say,

11

on a foot post, fuck it.

12

them all up.

13

You're going to go back out.

"You're

Take the first guy you got and lock

120 Chauncey.

Boom.

Bring them in, lodge them.

You can process them later on."

Those are your words, correct?

14
15

A.

Yes,

16

Q.

Part of what you're trying to do there is instill fear in

17

the community that,

18

are going to be run into the precinct, right?

19

A.

20

we are talking from 6:15, there were shots fired three days in

21

a row on the same block, and this happened again.

22

asking my cops, where do think is the best place to put them?

23

it is.

Absolutely not.

Now,

I say,

if they come out and they congregate, they

If you hear me from the beginning, again,

I want you to circle,

So I

am

I want the cars to

24

circle around.

The problem with that is Marcus Garvey, the

25

location, one half is 79 side, Bedford Stuyvesant; the other

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct

Page 112 of 177

1912

1

half is 81, Bedford Stuyvesant side.

2

with the 81 side gang members, and we had shots fired for three

3

days straight.

4

officer to circle around.

5

Q.

I am talking about, bring them in, lodge them --

6

A.

You asked me three different things before that.

7

to go down everything you asked me.

9

So I had an officer out there and I wanted the

THE COURT:

8

79 gang was, again, along

So I want

There is really no question pending.

You

have to wait for question and answer.

10

A.

Repeat your question.

11

Q.

I am going to move on.

12
13

Go to 31 October 2008, the roll call where you're
speaking, from 9:05 to 9:50.

14

You say in here a couple of times, do you not,

15

"Everybody goes, everybody goes tonight," right?

16

A.

It's zero tolerance.

17

Q.

Everybody gets a summons, a 250, or arrested, correct?

18

A.

If they break the law, everybody goes tonight.

19

Q.

You don't say that, to be fair,

20

you're talking to the troops, you don't say, if they break the

21

law, bring them in; you just say, everybody goes, everybody

22

goes tonight,

23

A.

24

pointing out quality of life infractions.

25

take everybody for the sake of taking everybody.

you don't say that --when

right?

I say about throwing dice, if they are drinking.

I

am

I am not saying just

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

If they are

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1913

1

breaking the law, a summonable offense, you either summons them

2

in the precinct or bring them in the house.

3

down because they have a Halloween parade.

4

bring people into the precinct and make sure they have no

5

warrants and summons them there.

6

Q.

7

is you at the roll call.

8

You say here --

9

MS. GROSSMAN:

The computers are
So you're going

Why don't you take a look at 8 December 2008.

MR. MOORE:

10

Again, this

Excerpt.

5:27 to 6:39.

11

Q.

You say in here at the top,

"You gotta get your activity

12

up."

13

A.

Yes,

14

Q.

Down on line 14 you say,

15

the right thing by you if you come in here five parkers,

16

no Cs, and only 250 you do is when I force you to do overtime."

17

Do you see that?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

You're referring to specific numbers of enforcement

20

activities, correct?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

You said 3 As,

23

A.

Again, this had to do with

24

Q.

Is that what you said?

25

A.

There is a reason behind this.

You see that?
sir.
"How the hell do you want me to do
3 As,

five parkers, and no Cs, right?

You heard the whole tape.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1914

1

Q.

I am asking you if you used specific numbers in relation to

2

the different enforcement activities there?

3

A.

It was a hypothetical of numbers.

4

Q.

Then there is a transcript on 8 December 2008, from 7:07 to

5

7:42.

6

These are your words again, right?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

You say,

9

and chewing on your bones."

"I'm what separates the wolves from coming in here
Do you see that?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

You're referring to Chief Marino again, right?

12

A.

No.

13

is right after an incident where I-nad four cops off post at

14

midnight.

15

Q.

16

it says,

17

pulls activity reports, he looks back the whole year, he says,

18

this guy or this girl is no good."

Brooklyn North inspections I was talking about.

This

When you say Brooklyn inspection, if you go down further,

19

''All right.

In fact,

I'm keeping Chief Marino at bay when he

you were referring to Chief Marino, correct?

I wasn't referring to Chief Marino.

It's two different

20

A.

21

lines.

22

Q.

His name is there, right?

23

A.

The reason I said that is because evaluations are in now.

24

He is reviewing all the evaluations to see if the cops are

25

working.

He wants to see my sergeants reviewed properly, gave

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

them the correct score, and wanted to see if I reviewed them

2

properly.

3

do with each other.

4

Q.

5

call with -- you're speaking and Delafuente is speaking, and

6

1915

the time is 14:36 to 16:11 or thereabouts.

That's why I brought that up.

They have nothing to

The last one is 8 November 2008, an excerpt from a roll

7

In the middle of the page, you say, speaking about

8

bandannas,

''I'm tired of bandannas on their waist and I'm tired

9

of these beads.

Red and black beads means Bloods.

Their

10

bandannas -- if they're walking down the street and they've got

11

a bandanna sticking out of their ass, coming out there, they've

12

got to be stopped.

A 250 at least, at least."

Do you see that?

13

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Is it your understanding that if you see somebody walking

16

down the street with a bandanna in their back pocket, that that

17

would give you cause to stop and frisk them?

18

A.

No.

19

Q.

Is that what you're saying there?

20

A.

No.

21

out of the car and walk around.

22

expect them to say hello.

23

approach them, I want them approached.

24

reasonable suspicion to stop this person,

25

Q.

I want my officers to be engaged.

I want them to get

If they come across people, I

If they have articulable reason to
If you have a
I want them stopped.

Would you agree with me that somebody hearing that might

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 116 of 177
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1916

l

think that if they see somebody with a bandanna coming down the

2

street, they should be stopped or given a 250 at least?

3

A.

4

experienced.

5

Q.

6

Mauriello.

My officers know the laws.

They know what I meant.

Just a couple of more questions, Deputy Inspector

Let me hand you what previously has been marked as

7

8

They are trained and

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 290.

9

Have you ever seen this document, Plaintiffs' Exhibit

10

290?

ll

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

This is a document sent from Chief Hall, chief of patrol,

l3

right?

14

A.

2010, yeah.

15

Q.

Yes?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

At the time?

18

A.

Yeah.

19

Q.

October 22, 2010?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

You received a copy of it, right?

22

A.

Yes.
MR. MOORE:

23
24
25

I was in transit.

Judge,

I

move the admission of Exhibit

290.
MS. GROSSMAN:

No objection.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13
Mauriello ~ direct
D428FL04

THE COURT:

1

2

Page 117 of 177

I don't think I have a copy of 290.

1917

Are

you going to put it up?

3

(Plaintiffs' Exhibit 290 received in evidence)

4

Q.

This is a memorandum from James Hall, the same James Hall

5

who rewarded you for your work in the 81st Precinct, right?

6

A.

Yes

7

Q.

It's a memorandum regarding a quota bill, right?

8

A.

Yes, sir.

9

Q.

And if you turn to the next page of this document, you see

1

sir.

10

under the heading quotas there is a subheading called

11

"department policy"?

12

A.

First paragraph?

13

Q.

Yes.

14

''In an effort to address crime and public safety conditions in

15

precincts, supervisors have made statements that could be

16

interpreted as the setting of quotas for enforcement activity."

17

Do you see that?

18

A.

Yes.

19

Q.

That's a statement from the chief of patrol of the New York

20

City Police Department, Chief Hall, correct?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

So he is acknowledging that in some situations, at least it

23

has come to his attention, that some supervisors are making

24

statements that could be interpreted as setting of quotas?

25

A.

I want to direct your attention to a line that says,

Yes.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805~0300

Case 1 :08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 118 of 177
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1

Q.

2

can be interpreted as the setting of quotas?

3

A.

1918

Do you believe that you have ever made such statements that

No.
MS. GROSSMAN:

4

Just for point of clarification, the

5

memo that was prepared by Chief Hall is October 22, 2010, and

6

the second page is the document that he attaches as a reference

7

that was prepared by the legal bureau.

8

that noted.
MR. MOORE:

9

It was attached to the document, right?

MS. GROSSMAN:

10

I just wanted to make

Yes.

11

A.

Yes.

12

Q.

Later on in this memo at the bottom, there is a subsection

13

that says "supervision and performance," right?

14

A.

Yes,

15

Q.

It says,

16

managerial measures to maximize employee performance.

17

department and department managers can set performance goals

18

for the officers under their supervision and can insist that

19

officers take appropriate enforcement action to address crime

20

problems, quality of life conditions, and public safety issues

21

in the commands they are responsible for policing," right?

22

A.

Yes, sir.

23

Q.

So performance goals, that would include setting a goal for

24

the number of 250s that an officer is supposed to get in a

25

certain period of time, correct?

sir.
"The law does not prohibit the use of appropriate
The

That could be a performance

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1 :08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP
D428FL04

Document 298 Filed 05/30/13
Mauriello - direct

Page 119 of 177

1919

1

goal,

right?

2

A.

No.

3

Q.

Could a performance goal include the number of arrests that

4

an officer is supposed to make?

5

A.

No.

6

Q.

What about the number of summonses that the officer is

7

supposed to make?

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

If you turn to the next page, that first paragraph, it

10

says,

''Officers can,

depending upon their specific assignments,

11

and the conditions in the command in which they work, be

12

expected to make arrests,

13

summonses, conduct stops of individuals who are suspected of

14

criminal activity,

15

Do you see that?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

So he lS referring specifically to summonses, to arrests,

18

and to 250s,

19

A.

Yes.

20

Q.

When he says ''stops of individuals," that means stops and

21

frisks,

22

A.

Yes,

23

Q.

Then there is a reminder that such enforcement activity

24

must be based on the meaning of the appropriate legal standard,

25

correct?

issue traffic and criminal court

and engage in other enforcement activities."

right?

right?
sir.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 120 of 177
D428FL04
Mauriello - direct

1

A.

Yes, sir.

2

Q.

Referring to enforcement activity, this memo refers to

3

summonses, arrests and 250s, right?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

How do you set a performance goal for 250s without giving

6

the officer a number?

7

A.

8

expect the officers, when they are working, if they see an

9

arrest situation, they are going to make the arrest.

1920

There is no such thing as giving an officer a number.

I

I f they

10

come across -- if they come across a summonable offense, I want

11

the condition corrected.

12

Q.

13

a number?

14

you explain that to me?

15

A.

16

conditions out there, on all tours, and other officers are

17

working out there and they observe it, I

18

observe it.

19

Q.

So the goal is just to go and enforce the law?

20

A.

The goal is to keep the community safe.

21

Q.

This is speaking about setting performance goals for

22

officers based upon their activity.

23

performance goal for the activity of a 250 without suggesting

24

or indicating a number?

25

A.

How do you set a performance goal for a 250 without giving
How do you set a goal without giving a number?

Can

If the crime trends are out there and quality of life

expect everybody to

So tell me how you set a

A 250 -- if you have a complainant and they point out
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct
1

someone, a 250 is going to be done.

2

are 911 radio runs, an officer is going to respond to a radio

3

run and have a complainant, and they are going to do a 250,

4

because the complainant is going to say that so and so was in

5

1921

my house.
MR. MOORE:

6

So a lot of times there

I am going to ask that that answer be

7

stricken.

It's not responsive to my question.

8

Q.

9

for the enforcement activity of issuing 250s?

My question simply is, how do you set a performance goal
How do you set a

10

performance goal for that?

11

A.

12

goal or no set number for a 250.

13

suspicion.

14

Q.

15

back, they can be disciplined for not having sufficient

16

numbers, correct?

17

A.

18

everything.

19

verticals you're doing, how many arrests you're doing.

20

keep saying 250.

21

Q.

22

be disciplined in part for his failure to meet performance

23

goals with respect to arrests, summonses and 250s, correct?

24

A.

25

yes.

I want the officers to work.

That's it.

There is no set

You have to have reasonable

If an officer doesn't have adequate numbers, upon looking

You look at everything.

Activity or performance report is

How many radio runs are returned, how many
You

It's not 250s.

Let me rephrase the question.

Looking back, an officer can

If they are out there and they are not doing their job,

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - direct

1922

1

Q.

If you can answer that question.

2

A.

Correct.

3

Q.

That would in common sense terms mean that they haven't met

4

the number that the supervisor thinks they should get, right?

5

A.

6

similar officers are working the same time, and similar

7

officers responding to crime conditions are seeing quality of

8

life infractions, or have reasonable suspicion to stop someone,

9

how could 99 percent of the cops do it, and now you tell me one

Yes.

If you have a platoon and similar area they're working,

10

cop also can't do it?

11

Q.

12

in terms of their activity, correct, at least in comparing

13

officers to officers, correct?

14

A.

15

crime trends out there, I want the officers working.

So the performance goals are based upon the actual numbers

Part of it, performance goals is part of it.

16

MR. MOORE:

17

If there is

One second, Judge.

Nothing further.

18

CROSS-EXAMINATION

19

BY MS. GROSSMAN:

20

Q.

Good afternoon,

21

A.

Good afternoon.

22

Q.

Just so that we are clear on some dates,

23

going a little bit backwards, to the beginning of when you

24

started working at the transit borough, that was July 3, 2010,

25

correct?

Inspector.

I know we are

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Case 1:08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 123 of 177
D428FL04
Mauriello - cross

1923

1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

Can you just briefly describe some of the positions you

3

held with the police department up until you started working at

4

the 81st Precinct?

5

A.

6

went to NSU 5, 25, 28, 32, in Manhattan.

7

the 34th Precinct.

8

Narcotics for three months.

9

and I ended up in the 79th Precinct in Bedford-Stuyvesant.

I was a police officer in 1989.

I got out of the academy,
From there I went to

From there I went to Manhattan North
Then I got promoted to sergeant,
And

10

I was there until I went to Brooklyn North warrants as a

11

sergeant.

12

Brooklyn for a month.

13

Greene as a lieutenant and then Williamsburg as a lieutenant in

14

the 90.

15

Precinct in Crown Heights.

16

Greenpoint.

17

became the executive officer of the 81st Precinct and then the

18

commanding officer of the 81st Precinct.

19

Q.

You became the XO from October '06 to December '07?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Then you were the CO of the 81st Precinct from December '07

22

to July 2010?

23

A.

Yes.

24

Q.

What were your duties and responsibilities as the

25

commanding officer at the 81st Precinct?

I made lieutenant.

I went to the 83rd Precinct in

Then I went to the 88th Precinct in Fort

From there I made captain.

I went to the 77th

I went to the 94th Precinct in

I was in Brooklyn North Borough Crime.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Then I

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D428FL04
Mauriello - cross

192 4

I was there to make sure the day-to-day operations were

1

A.

2

fulfilled,

3

rank and file.

4

Q.

5

boundaries?

6

A.

7

Marcus Garvey to Saratoga.

8

Q.

9

audiotapes from October 31, correct?

community directions with crime trends, and with the

What were the boundaries of the 81 Precinct?

What are the

81st Precinct goes from Atlantic Avenue to Broadway, from

Now, Mr. Moore asked you a lot of questions about some

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Can you explain what was going on?

12

correct?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Can you explain some of the intelligence you received on

15

October 31?

16

A.

17

numerous phone calls from the community council, from the

18

community board, from principals of schools, from elected

19

officials, from the school safety agents and gang intelligence

20

that we are going to have initiations.

Yes.

That was Halloween,

Prior to October 31 and up to October 31, I had

I think that's hearsay.

21

MR. MOORE:

Object.

22

THE COURT:

I don't think it's offered, again, for the

I think it's a state of mind thing.

23

truth.

24

was told that he was responding to.

25

whether it's true.

This is what he

It frankly doesn't matter

You can go ahead.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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There are going to be gang initiations that day.

19 2 5

1

A.

2

members were going to wear masks, run down the street, slice

3

people to become a gang member.

4

people, numerous robberies one after the other, and also a

5

group jump up and beat up people, one group beat up one person

6

and move on.

7

Gang

They were also going to rob

In the past, we also got intelligence, and it

8

happened, a lot of vandalism to community's property, their

9

cars, their houses.

Also, a lot of times we had vandalism to

10

department property, police cars' windows are broken, cops had

11

rocks thrown at them and bleach thrown at them.

12

Q.

13

there is a reference to zero tolerance?

14

A.

Yes.

15

Q.

Can you explain what you meant by that?

16

A.

Yes.

17

to be out there, get out of the car, get engaged.

18

a crime, I expect the person to be arrested that night.

19

Q.

20

there is discretion left to the officer to decide whether to

21

enforce a summonable offense?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

So were you trying to communicate that that night on

24

Halloween that you didn't want officers to necessarily use

25

their discretion,

During the October 31, 2008 roll call, at 9:05 to 9:50,

Halloween,

zero tolerance means I wanted my officers
If they saw

Now, are there times when perhaps it's not Halloween where

Always.

you wanted them to actually take enforcement

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

action if they observed the behavior?

2

A.

1926

Yes.

3

MR. MOORE:

4

a leading question.

5

THE COURT:

Object to the form, Judge.

I think that's

It was.

6

Q.

So you also mentioned popping champagne in that same

7

audiotape, right?

8

A.

Yes.

9

Q.

What were you referring to, what were you trying to explain

10

to the officers?

11

A.

12

courtyard of 120 Chauncey, we had numerous radio runs of shots

13

fired inside the courtyard.

14

When we got there, there was 20 people in the courtyard,

15

marijuana smoke, bottles all over, everybody was drinking.

16

guys had run from us.

17

about that.

18

have problems over there.

19

Q.

20

term beads, and you used that in connection with the term

21

Bloods.

22

for you?

23

A.

24

talk to my officers at roll call.

25

getting smarter.

Previously, on New Year's Eve, we had an incident in the

I responded with the officers.

They had a firearm.

Two

And I was talking

There is going to be jumping up.

We are going to

Now, on one of the tapes you also made reference to the

What did that mean?

What significance does that have

We got information from gangs.

Gangs used to come down and
And the gang members were

They weren't going to wear the bandannas to

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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l

show their colors.

2

color beads.

3

were Crips, the Latin Kings had green and yellow.

4

Q.

5

192 7

They were going to start wearing different

15:34, there are references to

And the red and black were the Bloods, blue beads

Referring to the November 8, 2008 roll call at 14:36 to

6

MR. MOORE:

7

MS. GROSSMAN:

8

MR. MOORE:

9

Q.

Hold on.

What date was it?

November 8, 2008, 14:36 to 15:34.

Thank you.

Can you explain what you were referring to in that first

10

paragraph?

ll

A.

12

information center in the roll call room when the officers are

13

getting ready, and we update it constantly every day.

14

had guys that were wanted for warrants, for robberies or

15

shootings, and Blood members that were wanted.

16

showing the officers the handouts and they had fliers that if

17

you see these people that are wanted out on the street, I

18

expect them to be arrested.

Yes.

I was educating the officers.

19

MR. MOORE:

20

MS. GROSSMAN:

We have a crime

On it we

And I was

Can you tell me the time?
14:36 to 15:34.

I'm talking about one incident with Dequan Vance, which was

21

A.

22

my officers on patrol at the time, they were at the roll call

23

too, they had a foot pursuit with him five months before that.

24

They made a gun arrest.

25

back to court so there was an active warrant out for him.

I was saying this young man did not go

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

So

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1

if you see this young man, that he 1s wanted still for a

2

warrant for a gun arrest.

3

Q.

4

this reference to stop everybody coming out of 120 Chauncey.

5

Can you explain?

6

A.

7

problems before I got there and problems we had after.

8

numerous shootings in there, numerous stabbings.

9

shot at over there.

1928

Mr. Moore on direct testimony referred to 120 Chauncey, and

Yes.

120 Chauncey historically is a building that we had

Again, my officers,

We had a cop

I wanted them to be

10

proactive.

11

two-man foot post there.

12

had a cop out there at all times, because we had problems, when

13

we didn't cover that building or that corner, someone would get

14

shot away.

15

It was a very busy building.

We had

We had to put a

This way when someone took a meal, we

The 120 Chauncey we are talking about is a half block

16

from Brevoort Houses, public housing, and the Bloods were in

17

120 Chauncey, the Crips were in Brevoort Houses, and there was

18

a big problem with them too.

19

we had to keep officers over there at all times.

20

Q.

21

Chief Scagnelli and TrafficStat?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

What is the purpose of TrafficStat?

24

A.

TrafficStat is to look at accidents and where they are

25

happening and what is the causating factors,

It was only half a block away so

Now, at the roll call on January 28, 2009, you referred to

what leads to

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1

accidents.

2

1929

prevent the injuries from the accidents?
MR. MOORE:

3

4

How can we prevent the accidents and how can we

Can you just give the time you're

referring to?
MS. GROSSMAN:

5

I wasn't referring to a time.

January

6

28, 2009.

7

Q.

8

to Chief Marino looking at everyone's evaluation, correct?

9

A.

Now, at the January 28, 2009 roll call, you made reference

Yes.

10

MR. MOORE:

The time is 20:25 to 22:07?

11

MS. GROSSMAN:

12

Mr. Moore, actually, I think this was on January 28,

Let me just check.

13

2009, 20:25 to 22:07.

If you move all the way down to the very

14

bottom, there is a second line 11.

15

Q.

There was a reference to Chief Marino yelling, right?

16

A.

Yes.

17

Q.

Did Chief Marino yell?

18

A.

Chief Marino never yelled at me.

19

Q.

What were you trying to communicate

20

A.

I was trying to tell my officers how important it is to

21

work all year because now it's January and Chief Marino-- the

22

evaluation is already done, he is looking over them.

23

do you got to do right for the community, you have got to work

24

every day, and everybody is looking at it, your activity, if

25

you're working.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

Not only

Case 1 :08-cv-01 034-SAS-HBP Document 298 Filed 05/30/13 Page 130 of 177
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1

Q.

2

line 17.

Now, on the January 28, 2009 tape, at 23:24 to 24:10, at
That's January 28, 2009,

3

MR. MOORE:

4

MS. GROSSMAN:

5

MR. MOORE:

6

referring to.

8

Q.

9

of the month.

10

23:24 to 24:10,

line 17.

Let me just -I will read it, Mr. Moore.

I want to find the document you're

What 1s the date and time?

MS. GROSSMAN:

7

1930

January 28,

Let's start at line 14.

2009, 23:24 to 24:10.

"You should be done by the first

I always was, you know, rest of the month, you

can skate."
Now, what was being referred to in that statement, to

11

12

the best of your understanding?

13

A.

14

you should be done with all of your activity the first of the

15

month, you should be done working.

16

Q.

17

that you could be done at the very beginning of the month?

18

A.

19

every day working.

20

should be working daily every day.

21

expect them to make an arrest.

22

them to correct the condition.

23

Q.

24

that can be achieved very quickly, what happens to the rest of

25

the month?

I believe the sergeant is saying that you should have

What is your view about that idea of setting a number so

I'm absolutely against it.

The officer should be out there

The crime trends are daily and the officer
If there is a crime, I

If there is a summons, I expect

What happens if a quota is actually set and it's something

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
( 212) 805-0300

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Mauriello - cross
1

A.

2

the officers won't be out there enforcing the law.

3

Q.

4

1931

The community crime will go up, violence will go up, and

tolerance, that I believe was the October 31 tape.

Now, on one of the tapes, the tape referring to zero

5

MR. MOORE:

I need for you to identify it.

6

MS. GROSSMAN:

7

October 31, 2008, at 6:35 to 7:26, line 18.

I know.

8

Q.

Can you explain what you meant by the term "herded"?

9

A.

Yes.

Again, that night, along with New Year's Eve and July

10

4th, it's hard to do radio warrant checks, go up to the radio,

11

because it's a citywide frequency and on the citywide, on

12

Halloween is the parade, New Year's Eve is Times Square, 4th of

13

July is the fireworks.

14

warrant checks over the radio.

15

my officers to understand that if it is a summonable offense, I

16

expect them to be brought into the precinct with their ID and

17

run right there and then released.

18

are going to stay and be arrested.

19

Q.

20

offense to actually stand on the street corner.

21

be a summonable offense if someone was standing or a group of

22

people were standing on the street corner?

23

A.

24

is observing them for a while and the officer asked the large

25

group, could you do me a favor and please get off the corner,

It's hard to go up.

You can't do

So when I said that, I wanted

If they had a warrant, they

Now, Mr. Moore asked you some questions about is it an
When would it

If a large group was standing on a corner and the officer

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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1932

1

there are problems over here, and the group refuses, then that

2

officer is going to tell them, if you don't move off the

3

corner, I could give you a summons for blocking pedestrian

4

traffic.

5

everybody moves.

6

Q.

So the key point here is blocking pedestrian traffic?

7

A.

Blocking pedestrian traffic.

8

store, they can't get in front of a store, usually a bodega.

9

Q.

Then he gives them a second chance and usually

Usually it's in front of a

Earlier you made reference to civilian complaints.

Did you

10

make any observations about the number of civilian complaints

11

against officers in the 81st Precinct from 2007 to 2008 when

12

you were the CO of the 81st Precinct?
MR. MOORE:

13

14

Objection, Judge.

That's beyond the scope

of the direct.
Let me read that again.

15

THE COURT:

16

Is that before or after that article?

Because you

17

brought out, Mr. Moore, he said there weren't any complaints

18

until the article in the paper.

19

MS. GROSSMAN:

20
21

It's prior to.

It's between 2007 and

2008.
THE COURT:

It's prior to.

He said there were no

22

complaints.

That's my recollection of the testimony.

23

weren't any complaints before the article.

24

MS. GROSSMAN:

25

THE COURT:

Complaints from the community.

About the police.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

There

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D428FL04
MS. GROSSMAN:

1

2

Right.

1933

From community council

meetings.

3

THE COURT:

4

Go ahead and answer it.

THE WITNESS:

When he asked me were there any

5

complaints about illegal stop and frisking and racial

6

profiling,

7

That's the first time we ever heard, nobody in the community

8

ever complained.

9

Q.

I said not till the article, which was May 2010.

My question is, there are times as commanding officer of

10

the 81st Precinct that there may be civilian complaints filed

11

to the Civilian Complaint Review Board, correct?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And you would get notice of that as a commanding officer,

14

correct?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Did you make any observations in terms of the number of

17

civilian complaints that were filed with the Civilian Complaint

18

Review Board between 2007 and 2008?
MR. MOORE:

19
20

THE COURT:
anyway.

I don't see the relevance of this question

I really don't.

23

MS. GROSSMAN:

24

THE COURT:

25

First of all, it's

the period of time I believe before he was the CO.

21
22

I am going to object.

He was the XO.

I think it's an irrelevant issue, a

nonissue in this case, whether there were complaints or not
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - cross

1

complaints.

2

about the police department, not generally about what the

3

community thinks of the police.

4

is not a trial about the police department.

5

the stop and frisk policy only.

6

and frisk complaints until the article.

7

Please ask your next question.

8

MS. GROSSMAN:

9

THE COURT:

1934

We are talking here about stop and frisk, not

We are not doing that.

This

It's a trial about

He said there weren't any stop

Your Honor, I would just like to

Please ask your next question, Ms.

10

Grossman.

11

Lawyers, all sides, live with the rulings.

12

experienced trial counsel do.

13

please.

14

Q.

15

evidence as --

They move on.

I made a ruling.
That's what
Next question,

Now, Mr. Moore showed you what has been entered into

MS. GROSSMAN:

16

17

I don't need any further comment.

Mr. Moore, what was the number of the

plaintiffs' exhibit, department advocate?

18

THE WITNESS:

19

MR. MOORE:

I think it was 298.
298.

20

Q.

21

chance to review that transcript?

22

A.

Yes.

23

Q.

Did you actually have a chance to review it in order to

24

make corrections to it?

25

Exhibit 298, August 11, 2010 transcript.

MR. MOORE:

Did you have a

Objection to the form.

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]

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Mauriello - cross
1

A.

193 5

Yes.

2

MR. MOORE:

I withdraw my objection.

3

THE COURT:

Overruled.

4

MS. GROSSMAN:

5

I have no further questions, your Honor.

6

THE COURT:

Mr. Moore, anything further?

7

MR. MOORE:

Nothing, Judge.

8

THE COURT:

Thank you.

9

MR. MOORE:

Judge, our next witness is another police

Can I have a minute?

10

officer.

I just want to advise the Court that I am doing the

11

examination, and I need to go to the hospital tomorrow morning

12

with my wife, as I explained to you earlier.

13

I think we can finish,
THE COURT:

14

We can start now.

but if for some reason

I have a doctor's appointment so I have to

15

leave earlier than 4:15, and I thought we might not take a

16

break.

17

MR. MOORE:

I think we can finish in an hour.

18

THE COURT:

If we start, we can finish.

19
20
21
22

So where is

the witness?
MR. MOORE:

The next witness is Sergeant Hegney,

Richard Hegney.
RICHARD HEGNEY,

23

called as a witness by the plaintiffs,

24

having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

25

THE COURT:

State your full name,

first and last,

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
[phone]