WI-LAN Inc. v. Alcatel-Lucent USA Inc. et al

Filing 482

MOTION for Judgment as a Matter of Law [RENEWED] OF NO INVALIDITY OR, ALTERNATIVELY, MOTION FOR NEW TRIAL ON INVALIDITY by WI-LAN Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A - Tiedemann, # 2 Exhibit B - Gitlin, # 3 Exhibit C - Gilhousen, # 4 Exhibit D - IS-95-A, # 5 Exhibit E - Trial Transcript (July 12, 2013 Morning Session), # 6 Exhibit F - Trial Transcript (July 8, 2013 Afternoon Session), # 7 Exhibit G - Trial Transcript (July 9, 2013 Afternoon Session), # 8 Exhibit H - Trial Transcript (July 8, 2013 Morning Session), # 9 Exhibit I - Trial Transcript (July 12, 2013 Afternoon Session), # 10 Text of Proposed Order)(Weaver, David)

WI-LAN Inc. v. Alcatel-Lucent USA Inc. et al

Doc. 482 Att. 8

Exhibit H

Dockets.Justia.com

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
TYLER DIVISION

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WI-LAN, INC.

)

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DOCKET NO. 6:10cv521
-vs-

)

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Tyler, Texas
8:51 a.m.
July 8, 2013

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ALCATEL-LUCENT USA, INC.,
ET AL

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******************************************************

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WI-LAN, INC.

)

)
DOCKET NO. 6:10cv252

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-vsHTC CORPORATION,
ET AL

)
)

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TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
MORNING SESSION
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LEONARD DAVIS,
UNITED STATES CHIEF DISTRICT JUDGE, AND A JURY

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COURT REPORTERS:

MS. SHEA SLOAN
MS. JUDY WERLINGER
211 W. Ferguson
Tyler, Texas 75702
[e-mail]

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Proceedings taken by Machine Stenotype; transcript was
produced by a Computer.

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same services, but to be able to be delivered to

2

customers without having to run all the wires.

3

After all, it's very expensive to dig up

4

streets and lay down wires and do those things.

5

lived through Hurricane Sandy, and I watched my entire

6

neighborhood get rewired over a 10-day period.

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attest to the fact that it's very painful to install

8

wired infrastructure.

9

thing I worked on for 10 days during Sandy was my cell

10
11
12

phone.
Q.

I just

So I can

And that wireless is -- the only

And I was lucky that my tower was up.
So let's go to the solution that you came up

with.

13

And what was the name of the product that

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replaced the AS-60 just so we're using the right

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terminology?

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A.

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18
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Initially, it was called that AS-600, but I

think it was re-branded to the AS-4000.
Q.

All right.

So we'll refer to the system you

came up with as the AS-4000; is that all right?

20

A.

That's fine.

21

Q.

So in the AS-4000, did -- did you and Martin

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decide to use dedicated code channels on a

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user-dedicated basis?

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25

A.

No, we didn't.

We were basing the use of

codes on the type of data that was being transmitted,

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the availability within the space of code in time.

2

used the -- you were introduced to this.

3

the combination of codes, of variable lengths of those

4

codes using Walsh functions to make that happen, and in

5

time, so time slots.

6

We

We used both

So the idea was we would look at the data and

7

what was going on in the system, and we would schedule

8

those based on what was happening.

9

know, all three of those elements that were really

So it was all -- you

10

important in the patent.

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from what was available in the day or what people were

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working on.

13

That was a large difference

You'll see people talk about variable codes

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but not variable time.

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were working on all three of those aspects at that time.

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17

Q.

All right.

Time but not variable codes.

We

Well, let's look at one of the

figures from your patent.

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A.

Do we need to erase this?

19

Q.

I got it.

20

A.

Thank you.

21

Q.

And so this is Figure 15A from your '326

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patent.

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sharing the resources across codes and time?

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25

A.

Is this what you're talking about in terms of

Yeah.

Let's -- if everybody on the jury can

take a look, this space across here (indicating) is the

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code space, okay?

2

is both -- is a code that's being used over time.

3

can see time is being ticked off over here, okay?

4

And each one of these vertical lines
You

Then within this timeframe, you can subdivide

5

it into smaller fragments of data or larger fragments of

6

data, okay?

7

orthogonal codes into short codes here.

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has a purpose in the system.

9

And even you can subdivide it using the
Each of them

The flexibility allows you to -- for example,

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the very small ones can be used for voice calls.

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had one of our older systems, we could nail up a channel

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just like you see here.

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like you see right here (indicating), okay?

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If I

And then we could send a fax,

The idea behind this whole thing was a degree

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of flexibility, because there were many types of data.

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And in some cases, our customers might be doing two

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phone calls, sending a fax, because they had a third

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line, and running two or three computers.

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add another computer.

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And they may

So it really was never based on what the

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customer actually had as a quality of service or

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business service level.

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That's at a higher level, that business-level decision

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of how much data or how many channels you could get.

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What was really taken a look at -- because

That's something different.

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this is a radio system and we were worried about it at

2

the radio level -- is how do we put all this together

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and service all those different kinds of users, some of

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which we never even knew of?

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No one was streaming video back in 1995, okay?

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No one was even looking at that.

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downloaded a video file, but you never streamed it.

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didn't stream audio at the time, yet all those

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capabilities are possible with the way we developed

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11

You might have
You

this -- this product, okay?
Q.

All right.

So let's -- let's take a couple of

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those things, because I want to understand how your

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system worked.

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A.

Okay.

15

Q.

If I was connected to the DSC system, could I

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receive a fax and an e-mail at the same time on my

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system?

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A.

Yes.

19

Q.

And how would the system do that?

Would it

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assign me multiple codes, multiple time channels?

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did it work?

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A.

It could do it either way.

How

It could assign

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you multiple codes, if the only resources you had left

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were small time slots and just codes.

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It can also assign you a larger amount of code

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or, again, a medium amount, say like what we have here.

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Several of these channels together can be put together.

3

And the scheduling is almost unlimited.

4

In practicality, we came up with rules that

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made sense to pack these things.

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and use is important, but you had a trade-off.

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could do things in time or in code space, and that

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allows you to be very efficient in how you used the

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Spectrum.

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11

Q.

Again, the efficiency
You

Now, sir, you heard this morning a discussion

of the concept of TDMA.

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A.

Yes.

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Q.

Did you hear that?

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A.

Yes, I did.

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Q.

And do you -- could you explain to the jury or

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state for the jury, what does TDMA stand for?

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A.

Time division multiple access.

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Q.

And at the time, in 1995, were you aware of

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TDMA systems that were in the marketplace?
A.

Yes.

In fact, TDMA systems on wired networks

had been in existence for over 30 years.

So T --

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Q.

I'm sorry.

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A.

I mean, TDMA has been available for a very

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25

long time.
Q.

All right.

And in the TDMA systems that

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you're aware of or were aware of in 1995, were they like

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the -- the dedicated locked-up channel CDMA approach, in

3

that they gave dedicated time slots; or were they

4

flexible and they could just assign any old time slot at

5

any instant in time?

6

A.

It depended on the system.

Most of the

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systems at the time were fixed-channel allocation.

8

In the wireless side, they did allow -- they fixed that

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you got it for a certain period of time until your phone

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call went off, and they were allocating it in that

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manner.

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But in general, it was always a fixed slot,

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never variable on a frame-by-frame basis from the start

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of your need 'til the end of your need.

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always a very fixed, regimented -- every frame, you got

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a slot; this is your time slot.

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anything else.

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it.

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So it was

We didn't look at

You're sending voice.

You know, that's

Or if you had -- remember back in the day, we

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were all on AOL.

So if you had a time slot on a wired

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system, you got a slot.

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thing that chirped and buzzed and then finally gave you

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a really slow e-mail.

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So that's how the systems worked then.

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regimented in their use of time.

You connected your modem, the

And that was dedicated to you.
They were very

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2

Q.

So in your system, you used

something called TDM techniques.

3
4

All right.

Was that -- was that the same as the TDMA
systems that you just described?

5

A.

No, it's not, because the idea behind it was

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this flexibility from frame-to-frame-to-frame.

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allocate all the time across, you know, one code to

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somebody.

9

could -- you know, allocate just one -- one small --

10

there's always a smallest time segment you could do.

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You could allocate that.

12

I could allocate half of the time.

I could

I

So we had flexibility on a frame-by-frame

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basis to the user, you know, that we're going to.

We

14

had the ability to change and adapt that data.

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was especially important, because that user may suddenly

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turn on and start using the Internet while they were

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doing a phone call, or a second phone call may have come

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in on their second phone line, or, you know, let's face

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it.

And that

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There are a lot of different things.

You may

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have had two or three different kids on their computers

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goofing around.

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were always looking at the data requests and then

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allocating on-demand need.

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not really TDMA.

That's kind of the point of it.

We

So it's using TDM, but it's

So we need to separate those two

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concepts.
Q.

They are very different.
All right.

Why was your system a more

3

efficient technique than using either the dedicated time

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slots or the dedicated channels of the systems that you

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were replacing?

6

A.

Well, first of all, the types of data had

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different needs for their regularity of needing time.

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Like your voice, you kind of need a regular pace for two

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people to carry a phone conversation.

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So you get a very

regular allocation of data.

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But you did something like a fax, that's kind

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of a large burst over a certain period of time.

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you're doing the Internet, we're all familiar with this.

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You type a URL in.

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there's a big burst of activity.

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nothing.

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webpage, and all that data is in front of you.

Then the webpage comes up.

If

So

Then you're doing

You're kind of scrolling or reading the

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So, you know, again, I hope I'm not

19

circumventing the question, but it had a great ability

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to allow us to make the most use of the radio resources

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that we had.

22

Q.

All right.

Why did you -- you said that you

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based your decision on how to allocate the bandwidth

24

whether by codes or time.

25

decision based upon the characteristics of the data --

You said you made that

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A.

Correct.

2

Q.

-- that was being sent?

3

A.

Correct.

4

Q.

Why did you not base it on the characteristics

5

of the user?

6

A.

Because the users that we saw, you know,

7

coming in the future -- and if you pull out your cell

8

phone and you realize it -- you know, 20 years ago, you

9

couldn't build this.

10

This is a miniaturization of three

or four devices all put into one, right?

11

And today you use it and you may be using a

12

map while you're talking to somebody on your Bluetooth

13

earpiece.

14

using this to do navigation while you're trying to find

15

someplace you haven't been before, like a restaurant in

16

town?

17

How many of you have been driving and kind of

The issue ending up being is that you can't

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just say what the user is doing.

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many things.

20

activities that are important.

It's not that it's Joe.

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Joe just doesn't do one thing.

Joe may be doing

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multiple things, and Joe may be doing nothing.

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25

The user may be doing

So it's the many things; it's the many

It's really important to be able to look at
just what the services Joe needs and divide that up.
A very interesting concept at the time.

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People were not thinking that way, but we were solving a

2

problem immediately in that roll-out of the Internet.

3

So we had to face that problem about a decade

4

earlier than any device could handle it or think about

5

it, so...

6
7

Q.

All right.

Let me draw your attention now to

another figure from the patent which is Figure 9B.

8

Do you see that?

9

A.

Yes.

10

Q.

In the description of the patent says that

11

this is an example of a fully loaded version of your

12

system.

13
14

Can you describe that for us, please?
A.

Yeah.

Again, you have the code space.

15

here now, you're using the smallest time slots

16

everywhere.

17

And

be used for is two things.

And what this looks like and what this can

18

One, many users making phone calls.

19

favorite version of this and the discussions we had were

20

national -- a national disaster.

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911, okay?

22

My

Many people calling

You would divide everything up, and this made

23

sure that you had all of this as voice conversations, or

24

it could also be many voice conversations and some very

25

low-rate data getting through.