O'Bannon, Jr. v. National Collegiate Athletic Association et al

Filing 237

Administrative Motion to File Under Seal Defendant NCAA's Deposition Designations filed by National Collegiate Athletic Association. (Attachments: # 1 Declaration of Jeslyn A. Miller, # 2 Proposed Order, # 3 NCAA's Deposition Designations, # 4 Exhibit A, # 5 Exhibit B, # 6 Exhibit C, # 7 Exhibit D, # 8 Exhibit E, # 9 Exhibit F, # 10 Exhibit G, # 11 Exhibit H, # 12 Exhibit I, # 13 Exhibit J, # 14 Exhibit K, # 15 Exhibit L, # 16 Exhibit M, # 17 Exhibit N, # 18 Exhibit O, # 19 Exhibit P, # 20 Exhibit Q, # 21 Exhibit R, # 22 Exhibit S, # 23 Exhibit T, # 24 Exhibit U, # 25 Exhibit V - REDACTED, # 26 Exhibit V - SEALED, # 27 Exhibit W, # 28 Exhibit X, # 29 Exhibit Y, # 30 Exhibit Z, # 31 Exhibit AA, # 32 Exhibit BB)(Miller, Jeslyn) (Filed on 6/23/2014) Modified on 6/24/2014 (kcS, COURT STAFF).

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EXHIBIT P IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 1 ·1· · · · · · · · · UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT · · · · · · · · · ·NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA ·2· · · · · · · · · · · · OAKLAND DIVISION ·3 ·4 · · ·In Re:· NCAA Student-Athlete Name and ·5· ·Likeness Licensing Litigation· · · · · ·Case No. · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·4:09-CV-1967-CW ·6 ·7 ·8· · · · · · * MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION * ·9 10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·- - 11 12· · · 13· · · 14 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF · DR. ROBERT McCORMICK · ·NOVEMBER 21, 2013 · · · ·9:30 A.M. · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·ALSTON & BIRD, LLP ·1201 WEST PEACHTREE STREET · · · · ·SUITE 4900 · · · ATLANTA, GEORGIA 15 16· · · 17· · · 18 19 20 21 Objection, 702. Plaintiffs object to the entirety of the NCAA's designation of Dr. McCormick's deposition. Plaintiffs have not sought to elicit testimony from Dr. McCormick at trial. Moreover, the bulk of the NCAA's designations are to questions and answers beyond the scope of Dr. McCormick's expert reports and expertise, as Dr. McCormick has repeatedly noted at his deposition. That testimony is inadmissible and should be stricken. 22· ·REPORTED BY: · · · · · · · · STEVEN S. HUSEBY, RPR 23· · · · · · · · · · CCR-B-1372 Designation Color Key 24 Blue = NCAA Affirm Desigs. Orange = Pls' Counter Desigs. 25 Fuchsia = NCAA Rebuttal Desigs Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 41 ·1· · · ·A.· ·I used to be, but I'm very little ·2· ·anymore. ·3· · · ·Q.· ·Why is that? ·4· · · ·A.· ·Just shortage of time, children, ·5· ·multiple households, work.· You've got to make ·6· ·some choices, and I became a cyclist and other ·7· ·activities took over my Sundays.· And I watch ·8· ·professional football, but I'm not -- I don't ·9· ·follow it was avidly as I do college. 10· · · ·Q.· ·Why you did stick with college football? 11· · · ·A.· ·Well, I live in Clemson.· It's kind of 12· ·hard to miss it, you know. 13· · · ·Q.· ·What do you enjoy about college Objection 402 14· ·football? 15· · · ·A.· ·Almost -- almost everything about it. 16· · · ·Q.· ·For example? 17· · · ·A.· ·The pageantry, the historical -- my 18· ·in-depth relationship with college football, 19· ·having taught students and known them personally 20· ·and been a part of their lives and having close 21· ·friends who have played football and knowing the 22· ·coaches and the administration and being involved 23· ·in it at fundamental levels. 24· · · ·Q.· ·Being part of it? 25· · · ·A.· ·Yes. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 42 Objection 402 702 ·1· · · ·Q.· ·What do you mean by pageantry? ·2· · · ·A.· ·Running down the hill, cheerleaders, ·3· ·tailgating, six World War II airplanes flying ·4· ·over Death Valley Saturday at quarter to 12:00, ·5· ·fireworks, talk shows, people wearing orange. ·6· · · ·Q.· ·Moonshine? ·7· · · ·A.· ·Moonshine.· Brent Musburger. ·8· · · ·Q.· ·All of that? ·9· · · ·A.· ·And more. 10· · · ·Q.· ·Well, what else? 11· · · ·A.· ·Tiger paws, orange.· My wife's a gator 12· ·fan, so thank God they are orange as well. 13· · · ·It's part of American fiber.· It's part of 14· ·the university.· I've written about it. 15· · · ·Q.· ·What have you written about? 16· · · ·A.· ·The relation between athletics and 17· ·academics.· It's been part of my research in 18· ·general. 19· · · ·I'm sorry for speaking so fast.· The relation 20· ·between athletics and academics.· I'm a sports 21· ·economist. 22· · · ·Q.· ·What's your background in antitrust? 23· · · ·A.· ·I took a field in graduate school in 24· ·industrial organization, which antitrust is a 25· ·component of it.· I was tutored and mentored by Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 111 ·1· ·do good? ·2· · · ·A.· ·I wouldn't want to put a label on the ·3· ·classes, but it's not a big deal at the ·4· ·University of Chicago.· It's a pretty big deal at ·5· ·the University of Illinois.· It's different.· And ·6· ·so it might be a scaler, okay. ·7· · · ·The University of Chicago made a business ·8· ·decision that they didn't want to be engaged in, ·9· ·let's call it Division 1 but high-level athletic 10· ·competition with other universities 50, 70 years 11· ·ago.· And the Ivys had made a similar business 12· ·decision.· And some -- so it matters more to some 13· ·schools than others. 14· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Athletics matter -- strike that. 15· · · ·Different schools have taken different 16· ·approaches to athletics? 17· · · ·A.· ·Different schools have different 18· ·business plans about how to achieve what they 19· ·consider good to be and what their mission is and 20· ·what -- how they are organized, yes, I think we 21· ·agree on that statement. Objection V, O, 402 602 702 22· · · ·Q.· ·At Clemson do you believe the college 23· ·athletics program is part of their mission to do 24· ·good? 25· · · ·A.· ·I don't think it's part of their mission Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 112 ·1· ·to do good.· I think it's an input to the process Objection V, O, 402 602 702 ·2· ·of doing good. ·3· · · ·Q.· ·At Clemson do you believe the college ·4· ·athletics program is part of their efforts to do ·5· ·good in accordance with their mission? ·6· · · ·A.· ·I think -- again, I'd just say exactly ·7· ·what I just said.· I think athletics contributes ·8· ·to the mission of Clemson University but have ·9· ·input to the process of doing good. 10· · · ·Q.· ·In what way? 11· · · ·A.· ·I have written about that extensively, 12· ·and so -- but I haven't read those documents 13· ·lately.· So I can only -- I didn't prepare myself 14· ·for that lecture, so let me caveat.· Please 15· ·accept that caveat.· The university -- people 16· ·like to belong to something, and people work 17· ·harder when they feel they are part of something. 18· ·It's part of my theory of management, managerial 19· ·economics, let me say it that way. 20· · · ·And belonging to something then gives you a 21· ·claim to it, and so I think that's the, 22· ·fundamentally the most important role that 23· ·intercollegiate athletics plays as part of the 24· ·university mission, is to create a sense of 25· ·oneness amongst the students and then, of course, Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 113 Objection V, O, 402 602 702 ·1· ·amongst the alumni. ·2· · · ·Practically it -- it's part of a physical ·3· ·education part of educating young minds.· It's ·4· ·part of teaching young people about the -·5· ·overcoming adversity and how to manage success, ·6· ·and there's a lot more. ·7· · · ·It helps to raise money that support ·8· ·philanthropy, and so that's just a piece of it. ·9· ·There's a good bit more, and I would want to take 10· ·some time to prepare the full lecture on it but 11· ·my written work speaks for itself. 12· · · ·But I've elaborated that on in my own mind 13· ·that I haven't written so much about, but I gave 14· ·you a taste of it now. 15· · · ·Q.· ·Do you think this is -- what you talked 16· ·about in terms of Clemson, do you think it would 17· ·be significantly different at other Division 1 18· ·universities in terms of the role of the college 19· ·athletics program in the efforts of the 20· ·university to do good? 21· · · ·A.· ·I suspect that similar -- can I add 22· ·something?· One other thing that I think is most 23· ·important, a function of intercollegiate 24· ·athletics at the university is to provide a 25· ·metric on the quality of the management team Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 204 ·1· ·add I don't know the answer and I wouldn't make a ·2· ·list even if -- that would not be the way I would ·3· ·do it.· And so, no, I can't answer that for a lot ·4· ·of reasons. ·5· ·BY MR. SINGLA: ·6· · · ·Q.· ·Do you have any basis to believe that if ·7· ·the NCAA rules that are being challenged were ·8· ·eliminated, that anyone would pay student ·9· ·athletes for their, quote, name, image and 10· ·likeness rights, end quote, to use in the live 11· ·broadcast of sporting events? 12· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Same objection. 13· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· And let me -- I think 14· ·it's a good time for me to issue the following 15· ·caveat. 16· · · ·A large number of these questions, which I've 17· ·freely answered, are beyond the scope of my 18· ·inquiry, and I do not intend to testify about 19· ·them.· This falls into that category.· With that 20· ·said, the answer is I don't know. 21· · · ·So I'm being asked questions about which I 22· ·wasn't asked to render an opinion and about which 23· ·I do not intend to testify and will not testify, 24· ·and so I don't -- I don't have an answer to your 25· ·question. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 205 ·1· ·BY MR. SINGLA: ·2· · · ·Q.· ·Now, I appreciate you're telling me ·3· ·these are things you do not intend to testify ·4· ·about and you have not expressed an opinion ·5· ·about.· I appreciate that, but I would like to ·6· ·make clear because I'm entitled to answers to ·7· ·questions, and I think an appropriate answer ·8· ·would be you don't know, if you don't know.· I'm ·9· ·going to ask my question again. 10· · · ·A.· ·Okay. 11· · · ·Q.· ·Do you have any basis to believe that if Objection 402, 104a, 701 12· ·the NCAA rules that are being challenged were 13· ·eliminated, that anyone would pay student 14· ·athletes for their name, image and likeness 15· ·rights to use in the live broadcast of sporting 16· ·events? 17· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Same objection. 18· ·BY MR. SINGLA: Objection 402, 104a, 701 19· · · ·Q.· ·Do you know? 20· · · ·A.· ·I do not. 21· · · ·Q.· ·You do not know? 22· · · ·A.· ·I do not. 23· · · ·Q.· ·You do not know? 24· · · ·A.· ·I do not know. 25· · · ·Q.· ·Thank you. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 226 ·1· ·I think there are others.· I don't intend to ·2· ·testify -·3· · · ·Q.· ·Well, one of the things that you believe ·4· ·are not changing -- strike that. ·5· · · ·What are the things that you believe would ·6· ·not change if the money was transferred from the ·7· ·universities, in your view, to the student ·8· ·athletes? ·9· · · ·A.· ·Well, the only thing I've been assigned 10· ·to task and think about in that regard is the 11· ·distribution of talent, and I've already said to 12· ·you and we've already long discussed that I think 13· ·the players would end up at the same places. 14· · · ·Q.· ·Would they play the same number of 15· ·games? 16· · · ·A.· ·If the only thing we changed was the 17· ·prohibition on -- yes, because that's not 18· ·determined by them.· It's plausible, I suppose, 19· ·that -- that the negotiations could lead to 20· ·something different, but that's beyond the scope 21· ·of what I've been asked to testify to and don't 22· ·intend to testify to on that point.· I would have 23· ·to think way more carefully about that. 24· · · ·Q.· ·So you're not offering any opinion that 25· ·the number of games would change? Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 227 ·1· · · ·A.· ·I do not intend to testify on the number ·2· ·of games. ·3· · · ·Q.· ·So in a sense would it be fair to say ·4· ·that your view is that if the money was ·5· ·reallocated, it would not change either the ·6· ·allocation of athletes to schools or the output ·7· ·of games? ·8· · · ·A.· ·I think the output of games, holding ·9· ·constant the rules on limitation of number of 10· ·rules, if you are willing to assume that those 11· ·don't change then I think what you said is 12· ·correct. 13· · · ·Q.· ·And so when you say -14· · · ·A.· ·I don't intend to testify on the latter 15· ·point. 16· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· When you say nothing else 17· ·changes, you're only talking about the allocation 18· ·of students to schools? 19· · · ·A.· ·Correct.· As I said and repeat now, I 20· ·think there are other changes but I've not been 21· ·tasked with that, and I don't intend to testify 22· ·to them. 23· · · ·Q.· ·So is your entire discussion about rent 24· ·theory only to support your idea that the change 25· ·in rules that the plaintiffs are proposing will Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 267 ·1· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Well, for now let's assume ·2· ·there's not an alternative to the Little League. ·3· · · ·A.· ·But it's critical, you understand. ·4· · · ·Q.· ·I understand that's critical.· So -·5· · · ·A.· ·Assuming away the critical part of the ·6· ·question. ·7· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Let's assume -·8· · · ·A.· ·So why do you care what my answer is? Objection 402 702 ·9· · · ·Q.· ·So let's take the Little League, and 10· ·let's assume that the Little League has a rule 11· ·that restricts competition for athletes -12· · · ·A.· ·Okay. 13· · · ·Q.· ·-- by teams, and that the Little League 14· ·makes a lot of money.· Let's say it makes 15· ·80 million dollars. 16· · · ·A.· ·Okay. 17· · · ·Q.· ·Strike that.· Let's say it makes 18· ·10 million dollars a year. 19· · · ·A.· ·Okay. 20· · · ·Q.· ·And that the athletes on the Little 21· ·League don't have opportunities to go earn income 22· ·elsewhere and that the athletes on the Little 23· ·League don't have a comparable league, another 24· ·league to go play with. 25· · · ·Now, why is the Little League not an Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 268 Objection CD, 103, 402 702 ·1· ·antitrust violation? ·2· · · ·Why is it not a cartel? ·3· · · ·A.· ·Because all the counterfactuals are ·4· ·wrong.· I mean, all the assumptions are wrong. ·5· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· If the assumptions were true, ·6· ·would you agree it's a cartel? ·7· · · ·A.· ·Well, I don't know.· It means -- you ·8· ·know, if bullfrogs had wings, they would fly. ·9· · · ·Q.· ·Well, yeah, that's right. 10· · · ·A.· ·Yes, if bullfrogs had wings, they would 11· ·fly. 12· · · ·Q.· ·So if what I said about the Little 13· ·League is true, then it's a cartel? 14· · · ·A.· ·I didn't say that. 15· · · ·Q.· ·Well, why would it not be a cartel? 16· · · ·A.· ·Because -- because I will not answer a 17· ·question which I know the assumptions to be 18· ·incorrect. 19· · · ·Q.· ·What are the assumptions that are 20· ·incorrect? 21· · · ·A.· ·Well, first of all, kids -- I played 22· ·basketball, football, baseball, track.· Now 23· ·there's soccer and field hockey. 24· · · ·Q.· ·We're talking about baseball. Objection 402 25· · · ·A.· ·I know, but you don't have to just play Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 269 Objection 402 702 ·1· ·baseball.· You can play basketball.· It's the ·2· ·same time of the year.· That's competition for ·3· ·athletes. ·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay, so playing other sports in your Objection V, O, 402 702 ·5· ·view is competition for athletes? ·6· · · ·A.· ·Of course.· I said that already.· I said ·7· ·Bible salesman or some other thing.· I said there ·8· ·has to be less than a perfectly elastic supply in ·9· ·order to cartelize against it. 10· · · ·And we're talking about children and -11· · · ·Q.· ·Why does children matter? 12· · · ·A.· ·It matters a lot. 13· · · ·Q.· ·Why? 14· · · ·A.· ·Because they aren't freewill 15· ·decision-makers. 16· · · ·Q.· ·So what? 17· · · ·A.· ·So everything matters in the world with 18· ·children because they aren't freewill -- capable 19· ·of making freewill, adult decisions. 20· · · ·Q.· ·So one reason you think that Little 21· ·League is not a cartel -22· · · ·A.· ·I didn't say that.· I said I'm unwilling 23· ·to analyze the case without knowing a lot more 24· ·facts. 25· · · ·Q.· ·So one of the facts that bothers you Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 270 ·1· ·about me suggesting Little League as a cartel is, Objection 402 702 ·2· ·first, that they are children? ·3· · · ·A.· ·No facts that you said bother me about ·4· ·you suggesting it's a cartel.· I don't care ·5· ·whether you suggest it or not. ·6· · · ·I'm only unwilling to analyze whether the ·7· ·Little League is a cartel or not until I know a ·8· ·lot more, period.· No more answers on this ·9· ·question. 10· · · ·Q.· ·So what you're saying about the Little 11· ·League is that the kids -- they are kids and that 12· ·the kids have other sports they can play.· Is 13· ·there anything else? 14· · · ·A.· ·I'm not answering any more questions 15· ·about this based on my previous answers. 16· · · ·Q.· ·You're refusing to answer my questions? 17· · · ·A.· ·Yes, sir. 18· · · ·Q.· ·Are you familiar with the amateur golf 19· ·tour? 20· · · ·A.· ·No, sir. 21· · · ·Q.· ·So are you familiar with the pro golf 22· ·tour? 23· · · ·A.· ·There are multiple pro golf tours. 24· · · ·Q.· ·Are you familiar with the amateur golf 25· ·circuit? Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 275 ·1· · · ·A.· ·I don't know. ·2· · · ·Q.· ·Give me -- you just said under oath. ·3· ·You just said under oath, you said that their ·4· ·education could matter.· Tell me now, tell the ·5· ·camera, tell the jury, how could their education ·6· ·matter? ·7· · · ·A.· ·I don't know, but it might.· Education ·8· ·matters -·9· · · ·Q.· ·How? 10· · · ·A.· ·It matters in a lot of areas. 11· · · ·Q.· ·How could it matter as to whether the 12· ·amateur golf league is a cartel? 13· · · ·A.· ·Because it matters in a lot of areas, 14· ·and I haven't studied it and, therefore, I'm not 15· ·willing to testify under oath that it doesn't 16· ·matter until I've thought about it and studied 17· ·the problem. 18· · · ·Q.· ·Let's move on.· Let's turn to your quote Objection 402 19· ·from Professor Becker. 20· · · ·A.· ·Okay.· Which one?· I think there's a 21· ·couple. 22· · · ·Q.· ·Footnote 11. 23· · · ·A.· ·Okay. 24· · · ·Q.· ·Now, this is a chapter by Professor 25· ·Becker in this book -Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 278 ·1· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, he says, Absent the rules ·2· ·enforced by the NCAA -·3· · · ·A.· ·I'm sorry, where are you, please? ·4· · · ·Q.· ·The first paragraph that you were ·5· ·quoting from him. ·6· · · ·A.· ·Okay. Objection 402 ·7· · · ·Q.· ·He says, Absent the rules enforced by ·8· ·the NCAA, the competition for players would ·9· ·stiffen, especially for the big stars, and they 10· ·would receive large scholarships and various 11· ·gifts of cars, housing and cash to themselves and 12· ·their families. 13· · · ·Do you see that? 14· · · ·A.· ·I do. 15· · · ·Q.· ·What does he mean? 16· · · ·A.· ·Other than what he said? 17· · · ·Q.· ·Can you explain what we're talking about 18· ·here? 19· · · ·A.· ·I don't think I can say it any better 20· ·than Dr. Becker. 21· · · ·Q.· ·Why would the big stars receive -22· ·strike that. 23· · · ·What does he mean by big stars? 24· · · ·A.· ·You'd better ask him. 25· · · ·Q.· ·Well, you're relying on this, aren't Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 279 ·1· ·you, sir? ·2· · · ·A.· ·I am. Objection V, 104a, 402 602 ·3· · · ·Q.· ·What's your understanding of what he ·4· ·means by big stars? ·5· · · ·A.· ·The ones that get paid the most. ·6· · · ·Q.· ·Who is that going to be? ·7· · · ·A.· ·The ones that are big stars. ·8· · · ·Q.· ·And why would they be big stars? ·9· · · ·A.· ·Because they got paid a lot. 10· · · ·Q.· ·And why did they get paid a lot? 11· · · ·A.· ·Because they generated a lot of income. 12· · · ·Q.· ·And why would they generate a lot of 13· ·income? 14· · · ·A.· ·Because people like watching them. 15· · · ·Q.· ·And why would people like watching them? 16· · · ·A.· ·Because they are big stars. 17· · · ·Q.· ·But why? 18· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Asked and 19· ·answered. 20· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Why people like 21· ·athletics is really an intriguing question. 22· ·BY MR. SINGLA: 23· · · ·Q.· ·Not athletics; athletes. 24· · · ·A.· ·They like athletics, and they like 25· ·people who do it well.· So I think -- I think we Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 281 ·1· ·good ones that aren't very popular. ·2· · · ·Q.· ·All right, so that's fair.· So the big ·3· ·stars are those that have sort of a very ·4· ·appealing combination of both athletic skill and ·5· ·personality? ·6· · · ·A.· ·Perhaps, and maybe more than that. ·7· ·Maybe they are really smart.· Maybe they are ·8· ·really good looking.· I don't know. ·9· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And what portion -- do you have a Objection 104a, 402 10· ·sense of what portion of the total number of 11· ·athletes in the Division 1 would be big stars 12· ·that we're taking about here? 13· · · ·A.· ·Well, I mean, it's a distribution, 14· ·right? 15· · · ·Q.· ·Sure. 16· · · ·A.· ·And so 5 percent of the people are in 17· ·the top 5 percent, 10 percent in the top 18· ·10 percent, half are in the top half. 19· · · ·Q.· ·That's not really answering -- giving me 20· ·much information. 21· · · ·A.· ·Well, it is.· It's answering it as 22· ·carefully as I know how.· Big is some -23· · · ·Q.· ·Do you have a sense of -24· · · ·A.· ·Some, some -- well, the distribution is 25· ·normal, pretty much.· Well, it might be log Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 282 ·1· ·normal. Objection 402 ·2· · · ·Q.· ·You think it's normal distribution? ·3· · · ·A.· ·It's probably log normal. ·4· · · ·Q.· ·It's probably what? ·5· · · ·A.· ·Log normal.· I think -- as I have looked ·6· ·at the data most recently, I think the pro rata ·7· ·rule applies; that 20 percent of the professional ·8· ·athletes get 80 percent of the income, so there's ·9· ·a data point for you. 10· · · ·Tiger Woods -11· · · ·Q.· ·Do you think that would apply in the 12· ·NCAA? 13· · · ·A.· ·It's a good starting place.· I would 14· ·want to look harder and want some data.· If we 15· ·didn't have the cartel I could answer that 16· ·question better, but I would start from that 17· ·proposition. 18· · · ·Again, I'm not testifying on any of this 19· ·stuff. 20· · · ·Q.· ·And what are the large scholarships he's 21· ·talking about? 22· · · ·A.· ·More than they get now. 23· · · ·Q.· ·In scholarships? 24· · · ·A.· ·Well, he means payments. 25· · · ·Q.· ·Oh, he means payments? Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 289 ·1· ·question. ·2· · · ·Q.· ·Now, it says, The NCAA sharply limits ·3· ·the number of athletic scholarships.· Do you see ·4· ·that? ·5· · · ·A.· ·I do. ·6· · · ·Q.· ·Now, why would the NCAA limit the number ·7· ·of scholarships? ·8· · · ·And let's talk about actual tuition ·9· ·scholarships not just grants and aid and those 10· ·type of things.· Why would the NCAA want to limit 11· ·the number of scholarships that could be given? 12· · · ·A.· ·To prevent competition. 13· · · ·Q.· ·And by here I mean, you know, giving 14· ·free tuition. 15· · · ·A.· ·To prevent competition. 16· · · ·Q.· ·What do you mean, prevent competition? 17· · · ·A.· ·So that there won't be competition.· So 18· ·that -19· · · ·Q.· ·For what? 20· · · ·A.· ·For the number of athletes on a team. 21· · · ·Q.· ·But does it cost the university anything Objection O, V, 104a, 402 602 702 22· ·to offer these scholarships of free tuition? 23· · · ·A.· ·It would appear to, yes. 24· · · ·Q.· ·How does it cost the university anything 25· ·to offer free tuition? Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 290 Objection O, V, 104a, 402 602 702 ·1· · · ·I mean, the university classrooms are there, ·2· ·the teachers are there. ·3· · · ·A.· ·Every student that you don't collect ·4· ·revenue from is -- it cost you what you could ·5· ·have gotten from a student you replaced them with ·6· ·a tuition-bearing student. ·7· · · ·Q.· ·I don't understand. ·8· · · ·A.· ·Okay.· So if I give you a scholarship ·9· ·and I deny him entrance to the university and he 10· ·would have paid, then by giving you the 11· ·scholarship I give up the 20,000 dollars I would 12· ·have gotten from him. 13· · · ·Q.· ·So you're saying when the university 14· ·gives the athlete a scholarship, it costs the 15· ·university the equivalent as what the tuition 16· ·could have been from a paying student? 17· · · ·A.· ·That's one way to think about it. 18· ·That's not the only way.· There's out-of-pocket 19· ·costs as well. 20· · · ·Q.· ·So there could be additional costs on 21· ·top of the tuition, foregone tuition? 22· · · ·A.· ·Yeah, I don't understand these line of 23· ·questions.· It seems trivial to me, but maybe I'm 24· ·lost in the fog. 25· · · ·Q.· ·It's okay.· I just want to make sure I Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 291 Objection O, V, 104a, 402 602 702 ·1· ·understand what you're saying. ·2· · · ·A.· ·Well, I want to make sure I'm ·3· ·understanding what you're saying because to give ·4· ·somebody something costs something. ·5· · · ·Q.· ·So to give someone -- your view is to ·6· ·give someone a scholarship costs the equivalent ·7· ·of the cost of tuition that you would otherwise ·8· ·get? ·9· · · ·A.· ·That's one way to think about it. 10· · · ·Q.· ·What other ways would you think about 11· ·it? 12· · · ·A.· ·What it is that you spend if you 13· ·wouldn't have given that scholarship to somebody 14· ·else. 15· · · ·Q.· ·What do you mean? 16· · · ·A.· ·Well, if you have to -- if you have to 17· ·build a dorm to house the people. 18· · · ·Q.· ·I see.· There could be additional costs 19· ·on top of the cost of tuition? 20· · · ·A.· ·There could be. 21· · · · · · · · MR. SINGLA:· Now, let's take a break 22· ·here because we're out of tape. 23· · · · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Off the record at 24· ·4:17 p.m. 25· · · · · · · · (Brief recess.) Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 320 ·1· ·segments of different populations take over ·2· ·sports over time, and that's part of our sports ·3· ·literature. ·4· · · ·And the abiding answer in most of those cases ·5· ·is lack of alternative income-earning ·6· ·opportunities.· So I think that it would be a ·7· ·reasonable inference to draw from the literature ·8· ·that the professional sports tend to be populated ·9· ·over different periods of time by people who come 10· ·from more modest means than the average person. 11· · · ·Q.· ·Okay. 12· · · ·A.· ·That's all.· But I don't -- I have not 13· ·myself done anything other than I just described 14· ·to you. Objection 402, 104a 602 702 15· · · ·Q.· ·Now, have you done anything to analyze 16· ·in this case in your reports the extent to which 17· ·NCAA, FBS football and Division I Basketball 18· ·athletes remained poor after they graduate? 19· · · ·A.· ·Again, I have a wealth of personal 20· ·experience, and there's no literature on that to 21· ·my knowledge so I don't have nearly the breadth 22· ·of understanding that I do, but -- and there's 23· ·quite a divergence there.· Some do very well, and 24· ·others don't do so well.· But I think by and 25· ·large the literature says that they all do better Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 321 ·1· ·than they would have otherwise. Objection 402, 104a 602 702 ·2· · · ·Q.· ·What do you mean, they all do better ·3· ·than they would have otherwise? ·4· · · ·A.· ·Had they not participated in sports; ·5· ·that sport enhances them as a -- on average. ·6· · · ·Again, we're outside, way, millions of miles ·7· ·from my testimony and my -- my charge in this ·8· ·case.· I do not intend to testify about this. ·9· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· When you say they would have done 10· ·better than they would have otherwise, do you 11· ·mean in terms of income? 12· · · ·A.· ·Life. 13· · · ·Q.· ·Does that include income or broader than 14· ·income? 15· · · ·A.· ·Broader.· I'm not tendering myself as an 16· ·expert in that matter. 17· · · ·Q.· ·Have you done anything to analyze the 18· ·value of the scholarships, the economic value of 19· ·the scholarships to student athletes in 20· ·Division 1 FBS football and Division I 21· ·basketball? 22· · · ·A.· ·Can I ask you a question?· Do you mean 23· ·to the athlete or to the university? 24· · · ·We've had this -25· · · ·Q.· ·No, I meant to the athlete.· Should I Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 324 ·1· · · ·Q.· ·And so you're looking at how the ·2· ·athletes did in their grades, if I understand, as ·3· ·compared to non-athletes? ·4· · · ·A.· ·Yes, and -- that's correct, before and ·5· ·after the restrictions. ·6· · · ·Q.· ·Now, how does that help you analyze what ·7· ·their lifetime earnings would be as athletes, as ·8· ·opposed to if they were non-athletes? ·9· · · ·A.· ·Because with the scholarship, that puts 10· ·them into the athletic arena, and then the 11· ·athletic arena presumably causes the effect on 12· ·their grades. 13· · · ·Q.· ·The improvement in their grades? 14· · · ·A.· ·Or disimprovement, whatever it is. 15· · · ·Q.· ·And so why would that translate to 16· ·income? 17· · · ·A.· ·Because if you do better in school, you 18· ·are probably going to do better in life.· Or if 19· ·you do worse in school, you're going to do worse 20· ·in life. 21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And so do you think looking at 22· ·lifetime earnings is a better way -- strike that. 23· · · ·Do you think looking at the athlete's 24· ·lifetime earnings in this way -- strike that. 25· · · ·Do you think that looking at the lifetime Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 325 Objection 402, 104a, ·2· ·student athlete, as opposed to being a nonstudent 602 702 ·1· ·earnings differential that results from being a ·3· ·athlete, is a reasonable way to measure the value ·4· ·of being an athlete to the athlete? ·5· · · ·A.· ·I think there are others who are better ·6· ·qualified to answer that question.· I have not ·7· ·put myself to that.· That's a -- human resource ·8· ·economists have studied this problem a lot, and ·9· ·they are the right people to ask that question. 10· · · ·Q.· ·What is a human resource economist? 11· · · ·A.· ·Those are people who look at those kinds 12· ·of questions, what's the impact of education 13· ·on -- look at gender differences and earnings, 14· ·look at why women get married at ages younger 15· ·than men, by and large.· Those are human 16· ·resource -- human resource economists. Objection 402, 104a, 701 17· · · ·Q.· ·And do you know, for instance, Jim 18· ·Heckman? 19· · · ·A.· ·I do.· I don't know him personally, but 20· ·I know of his reputation. 21· · · ·Q.· ·Is he the kind of human resource 22· ·economist you're talking about? 23· · · ·A.· ·He is one of the -- he is a qualified 24· ·person in that field, yes.· I think he's been 25· ·recognized by people much more famous than me. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 326 ·1· · · ·Q.· ·He's probably one of the leading human ·2· ·resource economists -·3· · · ·A.· ·I would put him in that camp, yes. Objection 402, V, ·5· ·clear.· He is probably one of the most recognized 104a ·4· · · ·Q.· ·I just want to make sure the record is ·6· ·human resource economists in the world? ·7· · · ·A.· ·I would put him in that camp. ·8· · · ·Q.· ·Now, before you got involved in this ·9· ·case, did you ever use any kind of public -- any 10· ·kind of writing or research of the term NIL or 11· ·name, image and likeness? 12· · · ·A.· ·The only way to carefully answer that 13· ·would be to look at my vitae, but I don't have 14· ·any recollection as I sit here without going 15· ·through a long explanation.· It wasn't a term of 16· ·art that I used regularly so probably not, but 17· ·I've been in this business a long time and done a 18· ·lot of work. 19· · · ·So it's possible you could dredge it up, but 20· ·I wouldn't know where to start to look at other 21· ·than my vitae. 22· · · ·Q.· ·As a sports economist, have you ever 23· ·studied professional leagues? 24· · · ·A.· ·I have looked at -- I've done some work 25· ·about the NBA, players in the NBA.· I'm sorry. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 335 ·1· ·the late 1980s and thought it should be part of ·2· ·the academic curriculum, and we put it in and ·3· ·it's flourished. Objection V, 402 ·5· ·sports and sports economics in various ways, have 702 ·4· · · ·Q.· ·So in your entire life, looking at ·6· ·you ever come across an amateur sport in which ·7· ·the athletes received more than living expenses, ·8· ·training expenses, and those kinds of things? ·9· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Object to the 10· ·scope. 11· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Not professionally. I 12· ·have not done -- I have not done any data 13· ·analysis or written about or read papers about. 14· ·BY MR. SINGLA: 15· · · ·Q.· ·Have you ever come across in a news 16· ·article or any other way any discussion or any 17· ·mention of an amateur sport in the United States 18· ·in which the athletes receive more than living or 19· ·training expenses? 20· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Same objection. 21· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I can't -- I can't 22· ·tell you one if I have. 23· ·BY MR. SINGLA: 24· · · ·Q.· ·Now, you've talked repeatedly about the 25· ·elasticity of demand of the athletes. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 370 ·1· ·not studied anything closely, remotely carefully ·2· ·enough to have an opinion about that. ·3· · · ·Q.· ·Is there any other outcome that you ·4· ·think is probable, other than the market ·5· ·splitting into two the way we've just discussed, ·6· ·with some teams taking the Ivy route and some the ·7· ·Alabama route? ·8· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Object, scope. ·9· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Well, first of all, I 10· ·didn't agree with you on that point, so all I 11· ·said there's a possibility it would break out. 12· · · ·There's a possibility that it would -- that 13· ·100 and some odd schools would more or less go 14· ·the same route.· I think there's -- and there's 15· ·other outcomes that are possibly in the middle. 16· · · ·So I really have not studied it and don't 17· ·want to suggest to the Court that I could give an 18· ·informed expert opinion. 19· ·BY MR. SINGLA: 20· · · ·Q.· ·What other possibilities are in the 21· ·middle? 22· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Same objection. 23· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Well, there's a 24· ·myriad.· I mean, there could be like everybody 25· ·gets 10,000 dollars or quarterbacks get 20,000 Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 371 ·1· ·dollars and linemen get 10,000 dollars.· Leagues ·2· ·could emerge, or schools could make individual ·3· ·decisions and be part of a league that had ·4· ·different rules, or there could be no rules. ·5· ·There's any number -- I mean, an infinite number, ·6· ·literally an infinite number of possibilities. ·7· ·BY MR. SINGLA: ·8· · · ·Q.· ·How would anybody be able to determine ·9· ·then what -- if the NCAA's rules were eliminated, 10· ·then what would happen? 11· · · ·A.· ·Well, like I said, you look at 12· ·professional leagues and -- but as one guidepost, 13· ·but I think in terms of -- depending on what the 14· ·scope of your inquiry is. 15· · · ·Do you want to know what higher education is 16· ·going to look afterwards?· I think we would have 17· ·to study that.· I don't have an opinion.· I mean, 18· ·even to think about how to do that is a hard 19· ·problem. Objection 402 20· · · ·Q.· ·So you think it a very difficult 21· ·question to say what would happen if the NCAA's 22· ·rules on compensation of athletes were 23· ·eliminated? 24· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Objection, scope. 25· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah, nobody has -Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 372 Objection 402 ·1· ·nobody has addressed that question as far as I ·2· ·can tell.· That's not before anybody in this ·3· ·case, and I've not heard anybody talk about that. ·4· ·BY MR. SINGLA: ·5· · · ·Q.· ·Do you think there's a different answer ·6· ·if we're talking about just permitting schools to ·7· ·pay 50 percent of broadcast revenues to students? ·8· · · ·Do you think that's a different question? ·9· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Same objection. 10· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah, I think that 11· ·this case is about a very fine point, and that's 12· ·all that I -- I think that anybody has put 13· ·attention to in order to render a really good 14· ·opinion about what the future outcomes will be. 15· ·We're talking about names, image and likeness. 16· · · ·We're not talking agents turning football 17· ·players into employees or anything remotely 18· ·related to paying them full value for whatever 19· ·their marginal product might be.· That's not the 20· ·scope of my assignment, nor do I understand it to 21· ·be the scope of anybody else's assignment in this 22· ·case. 23· · · ·So I don't have an opinion or don't intend to 24· ·testify and don't think I should say anymore 25· ·about that because I don't -- I'm not qualified. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 373 ·1· ·I just don't think I know enough. ·2· ·BY MR. SINGLA: ·3· · · ·Q.· ·So your view is that this case is only ·4· ·about whether student athletes should be paid for ·5· ·the use of their name, image and likeness rights? ·6· · · ·A.· ·I don't even think it's about that. I ·7· ·think it's about whether student athletes should ·8· ·have the right to negotiate for their names, ·9· ·image and likeness and whether -- or whether or 10· ·not a cartel -- whether there should be a cartel 11· ·that doesn't allow schools to shop their names, 12· ·image and likeness rights.· That's what I think 13· ·this case is about.· Nothing else. 14· · · ·Q.· ·What do you mean, shop their name, image 15· ·and likeness rights? 16· · · ·A.· ·To go and say I'll play for you if I -17· ·if you grant me them or you grant me some of them 18· ·or to negotiate their names, image and likeness 19· ·rights. Objection V, 103, 402 702 20· · · ·Q.· ·If there were a free, unfettered market 21· ·in the sense of compensation for student 22· ·athletes, do you believe student athletes would 23· ·be paid for their name, image and likeness -- the 24· ·use of their name, image and likeness in 25· ·broadcasts if, in fact, the courts did not Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 374 Objection V, 103, 402 ·1· ·believe that students had any right to block ·2· ·broadcasts of sports events? ·3· · · ·A.· ·I have no idea. Objection 402 ·4· · · ·Q.· ·Can you think of any instance that ·5· ·you're familiar with where someone is paid for a ·6· ·right that the courts do not recognize? ·7· · · ·A.· ·Absolutely.· Prostitution. ·8· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Anything else? ·9· · · ·A.· ·Lots of -- illegal drugs.· In lots of 10· ·the world -11· · · ·Q.· ·In the United States. 12· · · ·A.· ·Oh, I'm sorry.· There's place probably 13· ·where property rights are ill-defined over land 14· ·where somebody has what amounts to squatter's 15· ·rights and that the courts wouldn't recognize. 16· · · ·Squatter's rights are recognized, so let's 17· ·talk about rights that looks like squatter's 18· ·rights that aren't.· And you could rent a room to 19· ·them or use something you've stolen and you could 20· ·sell, so there's lots of examples. 21· · · ·Q.· ·So things that are stolen, squatter's 22· ·rights, prostitution, drugs.· Any other kinds of 23· ·rights that you believe people are paid for that 24· ·the courts do not recognize? 25· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Beyond the scope. Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 375 Objection 402 ·1· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· There must be others. ·2· ·I've just never put myself to that question. ·3· ·BY MR. SINGLA: ·4· · · ·Q.· ·Would you agree that whether student ·5· ·athletes would be paid for their name, image and ·6· ·likeness rights, absent whatever restraints are ·7· ·being challenged, has to depend on whether courts ·8· ·recognize the existence of those name, image and ·9· ·likeness rights? 10· · · · · · · · MR. GANKENDORFF:· Calls for a legal 11· ·conclusion. 12· ·BY MR. SINGLA: 13· · · ·Q.· ·As an economic matter; that they are not 14· ·going to get paid if the rights don't exist? 15· · · ·A.· ·I think I've already testified about 16· ·that rights question.· We went into it in some 17· ·profound and complete detail.· I don't want to 18· ·add anything other than what I've already said 19· ·about that. 20· · · ·I think there are rights that exist outside 21· ·the court system. 22· · · ·Q.· ·But my question is, do you think that 23· ·there's any basis to conclude that student 24· ·athletes would be paid for specific uses of their 25· ·name, image and likeness rights if courts did not Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 397 ·1· · · ·Q.· ·Right. ·2· · · ·A.· ·And so I don't mean to suggest that I ·3· ·thought those people were doing anything wrong. ·4· · · ·Q.· ·Oh, no, of course not. ·5· · · ·A.· ·Okay.· Same thing here.· Same thing. ·6· · · ·Q.· ·So if a university makes a choice that ·7· ·it doesn't want to maximize its television ·8· ·revenues, that might be consistent with its ·9· ·mission and be perfectly fine? 10· · · ·A.· ·I want to admit that some universities' 11· ·missions may not allow it to have as much 12· ·television revenue as they could possibly have. Objection 402 13· · · ·Q.· ·But you would agree that it may be 14· ·perfectly consistent with the missions of Clemson 15· ·and other Division 1 schools to try to gather as 16· ·much television revenue as they can? 17· · · ·A.· ·Precisely. 18· · · ·Q.· ·Now -19· · · ·A.· ·I want to admit a smorgasbord of 20· ·opportunities there, depending upon admission. 21· · · ·Q.· ·Right.· Now, do the universities -- do 22· ·you think there's anything improper about the 23· ·universities paying college coaches whatever the 24· ·market bears, sort of these high salaries that we 25· ·see? Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 398 Objection 402 ·1· · · ·A.· ·Again, I give the same answer. ·2· · · ·Q.· ·Which is? ·3· · · ·A.· ·It's mission specific.· It depends upon ·4· ·what the university sets itself out to do, what ·5· ·its morale code is, what its mission is, what it ·6· ·wants its student to achieve in life. ·7· · · ·I have to know more about that in order to ·8· ·give -- I wouldn't want to give one answer fits ·9· ·all. 10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So it's not obvious to you that 11· ·the high salaries you see for some head coaches 12· ·for the sort of the biggest Division 1 teams, 13· ·that there's something wrong with that or 14· ·inconsistent with that, in that with university 15· ·missions; it's not obvious? 16· · · ·A.· ·Not per se. 17· · · ·Q.· ·You would have to look at university by 18· ·university? 19· · · ·A.· ·That's the way I would want to do it if 20· ·somebody asked me to, yes. 21· · · ·Q.· ·Can you think of a university where you 22· ·believe the amount that they are paying the head 23· ·coach is inconsistent with the school's mission? 24· · · ·A.· ·I haven't put myself to that job. 25· · · ·Q.· ·Have you looked at what is causing the Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400 YVer1f IN RE: NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING LITIGATION Dr. Robert McCormick on 11/21/2013 Page 404 ·1· · · · · · I was contacted by the offices of ·2· ·Huseby, Inc. to provide court ·3· ·reporting services for this deposition. ·4· ·I will not be taking this deposition under ·5· ·any contract that is prohibited by O.C.G.A. ·6· ·15-14-7 (a) or (b). ·7· · · · · · I have no written contract to ·8· ·provide reporting services with any party ·9· ·to the case, any counsel in the case, or 10· ·any reporter or reporting agency from whom 11· ·a referral might have been made to cover 12· ·this deposition.· I will charge my usual 13· ·and customary rates to all parties in the 14· ·case. 15· · · · This, the 29th day of November, 2013. 16 17· · · · · · · · · ______________________________ · · · · · · · · · · STEVE S. HUSEBY, CCR-B-1372 18· · · · · · · · · My Commission Expires · · · · · · · · · · January 20th, 2015. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Huseby, Inc. 555 North Point Center, E., #403, Alpharetta, GA 30022 www.huseby.com (404) 875-0400

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