Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 991

Administrative Motion to File Under Seal Documents Re Apples Opposition To Samsungs Motion To Exclude Opinions Of Certain Of Apple Experts filed by Apple Inc.. (Attachments: #1 Declaration Of Cyndi Wheeler In Support Of Apples Administrative Motion To File Under Seal Documents Re Apples Opposition to Exclude Apple Experts Opinions, #2 [Proposed] Order Granting Apples Administrative Motion To File Under Seal, #3 Apples Opposition To Samsungs Motion To Exclude Opinions Of Certain Of Apples Experts, #4 Declaration Of Mia Mazza In Support Of Apples Opposition To Samsungs Motion To Exclude Opinions Of Certain Of Apples Experts, #5 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. D, #6 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. F, #7 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. G, #8 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. J, #9 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. K, #10 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. L, #11 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. R, #12 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. S, #13 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. T, #14 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. U, #15 Exhibit Mazza Decl. Ex. V, #16 Exhibit Hauser Decl. Ex. B, #17 Exhibit Hauser Decl. Ex. C, #18 Exhibit Hauser Decl. Ex. D, #19 Exhibit Hauser Decl. Ex. E, #20 Exhibit Musika Decl. Ex. S, #21 Exhibit Musika Decl. Ex. T, #22 Exhibit Musika Decl. Ex. U, #23 [Proposed] Order Denying Samsungs Motion To Exclude Opinions Of Apples Experts)(Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 5/31/2012) Modified on 6/3/2012 attachment #1 Sealed pursuant to General Order No. 62 (dhm, COURT STAFF).

Exhibit D

Page 1
1
2

3

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

APPLE INC., a California
Corporation,

)
)
)
Plaintiff, )
)
v.
)
)
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD,
)
a Korean business entity;
)
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
)
INC., a New York corporation;
)
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS
)
AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware
)
Limited liability company
)
)
Defendants.
)
________________________________)

No: 11-CV-01846-LHK

13
14
15
16
17
18
19

* H I G H L Y
C O N F I D E N T I A L *
* ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY - PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER*
VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
HENRY A. URBACH
New York, New York
Thursday, April 19, 2012

20
21
22
23
24

25

Reported by:
ANNETTE ARLEQUIN, CCR, RPR, CLR
JOB NO. 48724
TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 5
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

This is the tape

3

labeled No. 1 of the videotaped deposition

4

of Henry Urbach in the matter of Apple Inc.

5

versus Samsung Electronics Company Limited.

6

We are now going on the record.

7

Counsel will state their appearances
for the record.

10
11

MR. ARNOLD:

MS. HAGBERG:

Karen Hagberg, Morrison

THE VIDEOGRAPHER:

Will the court

reporter please swear in the witness.

16
17

10:07AM

& Foerster, for Apple.

14
15

I'm Brett Arnold from

Quinn Emanuel for Samsung.

12
13

The

time is 10:07 a.m.

8
9

10:07AM

*
H E N R Y

*
U R B A C H,

10:07AM

*
called as a

18

witness, having been duly sworn by a

19

Notary Public, was examined and testified

20

as follows:

21

EXAMINATION BY

22

10:08AM

MR. ARNOLD:

23

Q.

Good morning.

24

A.

Good morning.

25

Q.

Thank you for coming.

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

10:08AM

877-702-9580

Page 7
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

the question and have given your best testimony.

3

Is that fair?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Is there anything you know of that

6

might prevent you from giving your best

7

10:09AM

testimony today?

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

If you need a break at any time, just

10

let me know, the one exception being if I've

11

asked a question that you haven't answered yet.

12

Is that fair?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

And what is your home address?

15

A.

806 Ponus Ridge Road, New Canaan,

10:09AM

16

Connecticut, 06840.

17
18
19
20
21
22

10:09AM

Q.

And do you have a business address as

well?
A.

I do.

The Glass House, 199 Elm

Street, New Canaan, Connecticut, 06840.
Q.

10:09AM

And Mr. Urbach, what is the highest

level of education that you've reached?

23

A.

I have two master's degrees.

24

Q.

And where did you get those master's

25

degrees from?

10:09AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 8
1
2
3

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
A.

My first is a master of architecture

from Columbia University in 1990.

4

My second is a master of arts in

5

history and theory of architecture from

6

Princeton, 1995.

7
8

Q.

Okay.

10:10AM

So let me ask you first about

the Princeton master of arts.

9

How long did you attend Princeton for

10

that degree?

11

A.

For that degree, three years.

12

Q.

Three years.

13
14

10:10AM

And you said it was a master of arts
in history and theory of architecture.

15

A.

Correct.

16

Q.

What type of coursework did you take

17
18

10:10AM

for that program?
A.

There were seminars related to

19

history and theory of architecture.

20

yearlong seminar on the idea of representation,

21

which I think formed some of the intellectual

22

basis of my report.

23

Q.

There was a
10:10AM

And when you say the idea of

24

representation, is that in the context of

25

architecture?

10:10AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 9
1
2

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
A.

It's in the context of things that we

3

make, culture, which is to say that things

4

represent ideas, values.

5

ideas and values that inform them.

6

of reading objects.

7

Q.

Okay.

They re-present the
It's a way

10:11AM

So just to be -- maybe I'm new

8

to the subject.

9

objects, buildings, et cetera, as well as

It would include architectural

10

smaller objects that might fit inside this room,

11

for instance?

12

A.

Very much so.

10:11AM

From buildings to

13

furniture, to urban spaces, to products.

14

theoretical framework that allows one to

15

interpret objects of any scale in this way.

16
17
18
19
20

Q.

It's a

10:11AM

And did you focus on any particular

type of objects in that seminar?
A.

In that seminar we were primarily

looking at architectural spaces, but not only.
Q.

But primarily architectural spaces.

21

When you say architectural spaces, do you mean

22

10:12AM

interior spaces?

23

A.

Interior, exterior, urban.

Again,

24

the specificity of the object isn't what's at

25

stake as much as the framework used to

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:12AM

Page 10
1
2
3

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
interpret.
Q.

Was there a particular framework that

4

you studied, particular framework of

5

interpretation that you studied?

10:12AM

6

A.

I don't understand the question.

7

Q.

I'm sorry.

You just mentioned that

8

it wasn't so much the object, what was at stake,

9

as much as the framework used to interpret it.

10

And I was just wondering if there was a

11

particular framework of interpretation that you

12

were taught or --

13

A.

10:12AM

Well, in theoretical and historical

14

work, you have an object of study and you have a

15

method of analysis, and this idea of

16

representation or re-presenting concepts through

17

forms is the framework that I studied, not only

18

in that seminar, but also as an undergraduate

19

and in subsequent work.

20

Q.

10:13AM

Can you think of any examples of

21

concepts that were represented through forms

22

10:13AM

that you studied in that seminar?

23

A.

Power is the classic one.

One can,

24

for example, look at monumental architectural

25

form to understand the effects of power, but one

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:13AM

Page 11
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

can also look at other kinds of objects to

3

understand the presence of different values,

4

even radically different values.

5

Q.

6

values?

7

A.

8
9

Do you have any examples of different

Yes.

They're innumerable.

10:14AM

There is

as many as there are objects in the world.
Q.

Just as a for instance -- I'm new to

10

the subject so I'm just interested to know what

11

types of values you were studying.

12

maybe just a few examples, that would be

13

helpful.

14

A.

10:14AM

If you have

I did some research on advertising

15

light in Paris between 1925 and '37, which is to

16

say the introduction of neon and electrical

17

signage into a metropolis, and I was interested

18

in the way that these lights, advertising signs,

19

for example, were typically described as

20

feminine.

21

those days as an aging starlet who wore too much

22

make-up, for example.

23

People would talk about Paris in

10:14AM

10:14AM

And my interpretation of that

24

discursive condition was to say that there was

25

actually a larger instability about gender,

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:15AM

Page 12
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

about the relationship of men and women in the

3

Post World War I period that was being displaced

4

onto a discussion of urban form.

5

Q.

Interesting.

So there was sort of a

6

metanarrative going on that was transferring

7

from cultural happenings to the forms you were

8

10:15AM

studying?

9

A.

I'm not sure what you mean by

10

metanarrative, but what I'm talking about is a

11

framework for interpreting cultural artifacts.

12

Q.

Okay.

10:15AM

Moving on from that, did you

13

study anything else during your time at

14

Princeton?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And what was that?

17

A.

My other coursework.

10:15AM

There was

18

coursework on concept of privacy and publicity.

19

There was coursework on landscape architecture,

20

gardens.

21

10:16AM
Much of the work was independent

22

actually, and so, for example, the project I was

23

describing on nocturnal light was central to

24

what I studied.

25

Q.

Anything else you can remember?

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:16AM

Page 13
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

A.

From that particular program?

3

Q.

Yes.

4

A.

You know, it's quite some time ago,

5

so I could certainly fill in the record with a

6

complete list of coursework, but it's not what's

7

at the forefront of my mind right now.

8

Q.

9

Sure.

10:16AM

And that's fine.

And just as a general matter, I

10

wouldn't want you to speculate if you can't

11

remember something.

12

10:16AM

So let's move on to your time at

13

Columbia University.

14

there with a master's in architecture in 1990;

15

is that correct?

And you said you graduated

10:17AM

16

A.

Correct.

17

Q.

And how long did you attend Columbia

18

University?

19

A.

Three years.

20

Q.

Three years as well.

21
22
23

10:17AM

And what did you study while you were
there?
A.

That is a professional degree which

24

combines design studio work, which is the

25

primary basis of that program, so a tremendous

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:17AM

Page 14
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

amount of time designing objects, buildings,

3

spaces, as well as other courses related to

4

drawing, history and theory, technology.

5
6

Those were the major areas.
Q.

10:17AM

And you mentioned that you spent a

7

tremendous amount of time designing objects.

8

Can you remember any objects that you designed

9

at that time?

10

A.

Well, we were always making models

11

and drawings, which are themselves objects.

12

Again, for specifics of something that is now

13

10:18AM

15 years ago, I would need to get back to you.

14
15
16

Q.

So nothing comes to mind, no specific

object comes to mind, I take it?
A.

10:18AM

There was a housing studio that

17

involved designing elements related to housing

18

at all scales, from the housing block to the

19

building, to interior spaces and elements of the

20

interior.

21
22
23

10:18AM
There was a music school on the

Palisades.
My thesis project was a series of

24

urban objects for what was then the divided

25

center of Berlin.

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

10:19AM

877-702-9580

Page 15
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

Those are among them.

3

Q.

It sounds like the models then were

4

related to a small-scale version of a larger

5

building you might be planning or --

6

A.

That's correct.

7

Q.

10:19AM

-- conceiving of.

8
9

Was that the case with all the
objects you were making at that time?

10

A.

Largely, yes.

My training is in

10:19AM

11

architecture, not in product or object design,

12

which I think is where you're -- where these

13

questions seem to be going.

14

that.

15
16

Q.

Sure.

So I want to state

I'm just curious as to, you

10:20AM

know, your background and experience.

17

A.

Sure.

18

Q.

Okay.

And then -- let me see.

And

19

moving backwards more in time, where did you

20

attend before you went to Columbia University?

21

A.

10:20AM

I went to Princeton University

22

undergrad, where I have a BA magna cum laude in

23

the history and theory of architecture.

24

Q.

And what years were you there?

25

A.

1980 to '84.

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

10:20AM

877-702-9580

Page 16
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

Q.

And you can probably guess I'm going

3

to ask you again what you studied at that time.

4

Do you remember any particular coursework you

5

took?

6

10:20AM
A.

Sure.

In the first few years, I was

7

trying a number of different things in the way

8

that liberal arts students do, literature,

9

chemistry, Russian language, history of science,

10

and eventually migrated into the architecture

11

department, where again it was a combination of

12

design studio work and history and theory

13

seminars, both in the architecture school and in

14

the art history department.

15

Q.

Do you know any Russian anymore?

16

A.

I know very little Russian.

10:21AM

10:21AM

It's not

17

a language that I have kept up with, but I can

18

read it and say basic things.

19
20

Q.

That's actually impressive.

it's a very difficult language.

21
22

I hear

MS. HAGBERG:

10:21AM

I thought you were

going to start asking questions in Russian.

23

(Laughter.)

24

MR. ARNOLD:

25

If I knew Russian, I

would.

10:21AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 17
1
2
3

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
BY MR. ARNOLD:
Q.

So it sounds like after spending some

4

time sampling different coursework, you focused

5

in on architecture.

10:21AM

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

And then the design work, or the

8

studio work rather, that you did was focused on

9

drawings and designs of architectural objects,

10
11

buildings and the like?
A.

10:22AM

Largely, yes.

We also, for example,

12

did studies of objects like fruits, for example,

13

cutting cross-sections through fruits as a way

14

of developing drawing skills.

15
16

Q.

Did you take any coursework at that

10:22AM

time on industrial design?

17

A.

I did not.

18

Q.

And did you take any coursework on

19

industrial design during your master's programs?

20

A.

I did not.

21

Q.

Did you take any coursework at any of

22
23

10:22AM

those schools on product design?
A.

I did not.

To the best of my

24

knowledge, they weren't offered at these

25

schools, in fact.

They tend to be offered at

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:22AM

Page 19
1
2

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
Each has its advantages and limitations.

3

Q.

4

Interesting.

Thank you.

Moving on to some other types of

5

coursework you might have taken or might not

6

have taken, did you take any coursework at any

7

time on the design of graphical user interfaces?

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

Any coursework on marketing?

10

A.

No.

11

Q.

Advertising?

12

A.

No.

13

Q.

Graphic design?

14

A.

No.

10:24AM

15

10:24AM

Somehow I kept busy, but no.

(Laughter.)

10:24AM

16

Q.

Packaging design?

17

A.

Also not.

18

Certainly none were

offered in those areas.

19

Q.

20

Okay.

So no.

Cultural anthropology?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

10:25AM

And when did you take courses in

23
24
25

that?
A.

I remember one course in particular

with Natalie Davis, who is a cultural historian

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:25AM

Page 20
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

noted for kind of an anthropological approach

3

that focuses on everyday life as the subject

4

matter of historical interpretation.

5

Q.

6

course?

7

A.

At Princeton.

8

Q.

Was that during your undergraduate

9

And where was it that you took that

10:25AM

time?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

And do you remember any other courses

12

you took on that subject?

13
14
15

10:25AM

MS. HAGBERG:
A.

Objection, vague.

I would be happy to fill in the

record with a complete list of coursework.

16

Q.

But none come to mind right now?

17

A.

None come to mind right now.

10:25AM

18
19

years ago.
Q.

20
21

It's 20

Sure.
Did you take any coursework in

10:26AM

sociology?

22

A.

Not strictly considered, no.

23

Q.

Any coursework in consumer behavior?

24

A.

No.

25

That again would not have been

offered at a place like Princeton, though the

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:26AM

Page 21
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

history and theory courses in architecture and

3

art history encompassed aspects of these fields

4

of inquiry.

5

Q.

And when you say fields of inquiry,

6

are you thinking of any in particular from the

7

10:26AM

ones that I've asked about?

8
9

A.

Sociology, cultural anthropology, in

particular.

In fact, the history and theory of

10

architecture program at Princeton was founded as

11

a kind of project in cultural anthropology.

12
13
14

Q.

10:27AM

more.

Can you explain that a little bit
I'm not sure I understand that.

A.

It goes back to the idea that we've

15

been discussing from the very start, that

16

objects represent ideas and values, and with

17

architecture in particular, since it is largely

18

a social phenomenon, often connected with forms

19

of power and authority, one can understand the

20

dominant values, the dominant ideas, the norms,

21

the habits of a social order through the kinds

22

of buildings and spaces that it constructs.

23
24
25

Q.

10:27AM

10:27AM

In any of your coursework, do you

remember studying particular companies?
A.

My undergraduate thesis was -- the

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:28AM

Page 22
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

subject matter was theme parks, and I had

3

written a junior paper on Epcot Center.

4

Disney in fact was a company that I was very

5

interested in at the time.

6
7
8
9

Q.

So

10:28AM

And do you remember what your

conclusion was in your thesis regarding Disney?
A.

That research was about the way in

which these artifacts, theme parks, which we

10

tend not to think about very much, we think of

11

them as places you go and have fun, that in fact

12

they were completely loaded and coded with ideas

13

about history, nature, class.

14

10:29AM

In particular, the Disney parks --

15

and I certainly was not the only one, there were

16

other theorists working on this -- were

17

particularly ideological and very much masked

18

the kind of ideological claims they would make,

19

for example, about the supremacy of America in

20

the post-war period, would mask those political

21

claims as a form of entertainment.

22
23
24
25

10:29AM

10:29AM

Sobering, I know, but that's what I
was thinking about.
Q.

And that was in your time at

Princeton as an undergrad?

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

10:30AM

877-702-9580

Page 23
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

A.

Yes.

3

Q.

Did you spend much time at that theme

4

park?

5

A.

I did.

6

Q.

It's a nice perk.

7

A.

I didn't experience it that way,

8

but...

9
10
11

10:30AM

(Laughter.)
Q.

So moving on to your employment

10:30AM

history, are you currently employed?

12

A.

I am.

13

Q.

And where do you work?

14

A.

I am, as of recently, as of a little

15

more than two weeks, the director of the Glass

16

House in New Canaan, Connecticut.

17

Q.

18
19

Oh, just two weeks.

10:30AM

Okay.

And what is the Glass House?
A.

The Glass House refers to a campus of

20

buildings centered on a building that is also

21

called the Glass House, which is a weekend house

22

built by Philip Johnson in 1949 that was

23

essentially made of glass and achieved a kind of

24

iconic status, not only as a building, but also

25

as a kind of cultural project, insofar as over

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:30AM

10:31AM

Page 24
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

the next 50 years, until he passed, the Glass

3

House campus became a center where leading

4

artists, architects, designers, patrons, writers

5

would gather.

6

10:31AM

And Philip Johnson left the house in

7

his will to the National Trust for Historic

8

Preservation, who now own it, and I am the

9

director, which is to say that I am responsible

10

for this property, for this site and for its

11

future.

12

Q.

13
14

10:32AM

And when you say responsible for this

property, do you mean day-to-day operations?
A.

Well, we have a staff, some of whom

15

focus on operations and things like

16

groundskeeping and so on.

17

10:32AM

The primary components of my job are

18

maintaining the integrity of the site from a

19

kind of preservation perspective, which includes

20

operations, fundraising, various kind of

21

managerial issues, as well as developing the

22

potential of this site, which since Philip's

23

death has been largely recreated as a house

24

museum for public tours, and my mandate is to

25

restore its influence as a center of culture.

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:32AM

10:33AM

Page 25
1
2
3
4

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
Q.

And what type of things are displayed

in the house museum?
A.

Well, currently it's the house itself

5

and the other roughly dozen buildings,

6

structures on the property.

7

objects.

8

were there during Philip's lifetime are on

9

display, and Mies van der Rohe furniture,

10

10:33AM

There are also

Some of the objects and furniture that

important artworks, artifacts of everyday life.

11

10:33AM

But it's largely set up -- it's

12

something like a period room, where you enter

13

into the space and there's a display of how it

14

might have looked at a moment in time.

15
16
17

Q.

And what were you doing prior to

10:34AM

working at the Glass House?
A.

For about a year I was doing

18

independent projects, both writing and

19

consulting.

20

And prior to that, for about five

21

years, I was curator of architecture and design

22

10:34AM

at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art.

23

And prior to that, I owned a gallery

24

of contemporary art and architecture in

25

New York.

10:34AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 26
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

All the while writing and teaching

3

and occasionally consulting through that entire

4

period of roughly 15 years.

5

Q.

So staying busy, to say the least?

6

A.

A little busy.

7

Q.

And going back to the period just

8

prior to the Glass House, you said you were

9

10:35AM

doing some consulting and writing.

10
11
12

What type of consulting were you

10:35AM

doing?
A.

I was working with a gallery of

13

design objects in San Francisco, helping them

14

develop their program, their identity.

15

with them for approximately six months.

16

I worked
10:35AM

I also consulted with a gallery in

17

New York on the development of an exhibition of

18

drawings.

19
20
21

Those were the two primary consulting
projects.
Q.

10:35AM

22

And those were both galleries.

23

Did you do any consulting with any
businesses?

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

Apart --

You mean apart from galleries?

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

10:36AM

877-702-9580

Page 27
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

A.

Which also are businesses.

3

Q.

Right.

4

Yeah, my mistake.

No, that's

right.

5

A.

And I was writing as well, and it was

6

during that period that I wrote the essay on

7

Apple stores that I believe is in the exhibit or

8

10:36AM

appended to my report.

9

Q.

Okay.

So that was written in that

10

time period between when you worked at the

11

San Francisco Museum of Modern Art and the Glass

12

House?

13

A.

10:36AM

I believe I started it while still at

14

the museum, but most of the writing happened in

15

the period immediately after.

16
17

Q.

10:36AM

Did you do any other writing that you

can remember during that time?

18

A.

I did.

Some independent.

Some

19

writing toward a book project on installation

20

architecture.

21

Some smaller writing projects.

10:37AM

I mean I'm frequently writing, so...

22

Q.

Then looking at your time at the

23

San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, and first

24

let me ask, is there -- that's kind of a long

25

name.

10:37AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 28
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

Do you refer to it as SFMOMA?

3

A.

That's fine.

4

Q.

So at your time at SFMOMA, you were

5

there from 2006 to 2011; is that correct?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

And what was your job title there?

8

A.

I was curator of architecture and

9

design.

10

Q.

10:37AM

11

And was that your job title the whole

10:37AM

time that you were there?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And what were your responsibilities?

14

A.

It was an endowed position, so the

15

official title was the Helen Hilton Raiser

16

Curator of Architecture and Design.

17

Q.

And what were your responsibilities?

18

A.

10:37AM

My responsibilities largely divided

19

into three categories; exhibitions, acquisitions

20

and community relations.

21

10:38AM

In terms of exhibitions, I was always

22

responsible for the dedicated architecture and

23

design galleries, which were about 3,000 square

24

feet on the second floor, and so it was my

25

responsibility to make sure that we had

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:38AM

Page 29
1
2

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
exhibitions in those spaces.

3

In addition, there was the

4

opportunity to do exhibitions elsewhere in the

5

museum, in particular, a large 7,500-square foot

6

exhibition on the museum's fourth floor, which

7

was the lead exhibition of that moment.

8

10:38AM

In terms of acquisitions, it was my

9

responsibility to build the permanent collection

10

by proposing works for purchase or donation that

11

would be reviewed by an accessions committee,

12

then a higher-level committee, and finally the

13

board of trustees, before these works would

14

enter the permanent collection.

15

There were some responsibilities

16

where I would consult with conservators, for

18

10:39AM

related to the maintenance of the collection,

17

10:39AM

example, if an object needed treatment.

19

And then community relations had to

20

do with cultivating donor groups.

21

group of friends who we would organize programs

22

related to architecture and design, in general

23

kind of building the profile of architecture and

24

design in the community and within the larger

25

field.

We had a

10:39AM

10:39AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 30
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

SFMOMA, as you might know, is one of

3

only three major art museums in America to have

4

a department of architecture and design, and it

5

is considered a leader in the field.

6

Q.

7

museums are?

8

A.

10:40AM

9
10
11

Do you remember what the other two

The Museum of Modern Art and the Art

Institute of Chicago.
Q.

When you say the Museum of Modern

10:40AM

Art, that's the one here in New York?

12

A.

In New York, yes.

13

Q.

Now, when you say cultivating donor

14

groups, is that similar to fundraising, or is it

15

different than that?

16

A.

10:40AM

Well, it generally falls under the

17

category of fundraising.

18

different from what I do and will be doing at

19

the Glass House.

20

It's something

Often what you do as a curator, you

21

try to raise money for your projects, whether

22

they're exhibitions or acquisitions.

23

example, if there's -- there was an acquisition

24

budget each year that came from the donations of

25

the committee members, but sometimes there were

10:40AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

So for

877-702-9580

10:41AM

Page 31
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

opportunities to acquire things beyond that

3

budget that we felt important for the

4

collection, so we would need to raise additional

5

funds.

6

10:41AM
Likewise, with exhibitions, though

7

there was a development department who was

8

largely responsible for raising money, curators

9

are always involved in helping raise money.

10
11

Q.

A.

13

and 15.

14

Q.

16

10:41AM

did you help to coordinate?

12

15

And how many exhibits or exhibitions

I believe it was somewhere between 12
We could verify that.
Was there a specific topic or focus

on those exhibits, or were they disparate?
A.

10:42AM

I think there was a nice range.

17

There were, I believe, five exhibitions from the

18

permanent collection that sought to provide a

19

sort of conceptual framework to objects drawn

20

from the collection, which may have been objects

21

that I brought in or brought in by my

22

predecessors.

23

10:42AM

One exhibition that I think is

24

germane to what we're discussing here today was

25

the major exhibition that I did that I mentioned

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:42AM

Page 32
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

earlier, the museum's lead exhibition in that

3

period, which was called How Wine Became Modern,

4

Design and Wine, 1976 to Now, and that was an

5

original and it was said ground-breaking study

6

of the visual and material culture of wine in

7

the period from 1976 to now, 1976 being the year

8

of a watershed event in the world of wine called

9

the Judgment of Paris, where essentially, in

10

very broad strokes, the new world begins to gain

11

a kind of ascendency that it hadn't previously

12

had, and as part of this story, a kind of battle

13

for authority within the world of wine, I became

14

particularly interested in the way that designed

15

objects could confer value.

10:42AM

16

10:43AM

10:43AM

And by objects, to go back to an

17

earlier discussion we were having, I was looking

18

not only at architecture such as the

19

architecture of wineries, but at wine glasses,

20

wine labels, works of art related to wine,

21

concepts of land use related to wine, such as

22

terroir, popular culture in a sort of cultural

23

anthropological approach, such as news, film and

24

advertising related to wine, all to try to

25

understand how it is that something that might

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:43AM

10:44AM

Page 33
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

otherwise have the same status as grape juice or

3

Coca-Cola in fact has a completely different

4

elevated status.

5

And it was my argument that design

6

played a central role in that transformation.

7

Q.

8
9

10:44AM

Interesting.
And at that time, did you have any

exhibits that were devoted to consumer

10

electronics?

11

A.

10:44AM

No.

We had some consumer electronics

12

in permanent collection exhibitions.

13

particular, 246 and Counting, was an overview of

14

all of the works that I had brought into the

15

collection during the first roughly

16

two-and-a-half years of my tenure, and we had

17

some Apple products as well as Bang & Olufsen,

18

as well as other examples of product design,

19

furniture.

20
21
22

Q.

One in

10:45AM

We had a bicycle, for example.
And what was the purpose of that

10:45AM

exhibit?
A.

The exhibition was a kind of

23

meta-exhibition really that was designed to

24

inform the public of how a museum collects,

25

which was a rather distinctive approach.

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:45AM

Page 34
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

Usually when curators mount permanent

3

collection shows, especially recent acquisition

4

shows, they're seen as sort of greatest hits or

5

a celebration of what the museum now owns,

6

demonstrations of the museum's power and

7

authority.

8

there were many things about this exhibition

9

that worked to complicate that idea and to make

10:46AM

Of course it was also that, but

10

visible the actual processes by which works come

11

into a collection.

12

10:46AM

So for example, we informed people

13

that, as I just told you, a curator surveys the

14

landscape, decides what he or she thinks is

15

museum worthy, proposes that to a committee.

16

Those decisions are then reviewed, then reviewed

17

and approved by the board of trustees.

18

are things that are not common knowledge to the

19

public.

20

10:46AM

These

Or, for example, discussing some of

21

the conservation issues that attend to acquiring

22

objects.

23

where, for example, we would talk about issues

24

of when you acquire a consumer electronics, that

25

you need to make decisions about whether you

10:47AM

And we did a cell phone guided tour

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:47AM

Page 35
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

display them on or off.

3

on, how do you deal with screen burn over a long

4

period of time.

5
6
7

If they're displayed

These kinds of -- but it was a very

10:47AM

behind-the-scenes look at making an exhibition.
Q.

And to maybe go a little deeper into

8

this, what were some of the reasons that you

9

chose to try and bring certain items into the

10

museum?

11

A.

10:48AM
It's not exactly a formula, but it's

12

a combination -- one thinks of several things.

13

What one would like to have on hand for

14

exhibitions and what one would like to preserve

15

for posterity.

16

10:48AM

Within that the criteria include

17

excellence, which can be formal, material,

18

technical, conceptual excellence.

19

Also responding to what has been

20

collected already.

21

fill gaps in a collection or trying to build

22

upon strengths or concentrations.

23

So for example, trying to

10:48AM

Of course budget plays an issue, as

24

does serendipity.

25

access to everything one wants, so one is

One doesn't always have

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:49AM

Page 36
1
2

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
responding to what the market makes available.

3

As well in my field, my field was

4

rather -- my purview was rather broad, insofar

5

as architecture and design, as defined at

6

SFMOMA, includes architecture, product design,

7

industrial design, graphic design and furniture.

8

And so I would also try to be balanced and to

9

make sure that all parts of the design

10

collection were moving forward, not in every

11

meeting at the same rate, but over the arch of

12

10:49AM

time, to be comprehensive in that way.

13
14

Q.

And I think you had used the phrase

earlier, the phrase "museum worthy."

15
16
17

10:49AM

What -- in your opinion, what makes

10:50AM

something museum worthy?
A.

Again, my first response would be to

18

say there's something ineffable that's not easy

19

to put one's finger on, but it has to do with

20

excellence.

21

status.

22

narratives that one is trying to relate with the

23

collection.

24
25

It might have to do with social

10:50AM

It might have to do with certain

Generally speaking, works that are
exalted in some way are museum worthy and in

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:51AM

Page 37
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

turn become exalted as they enter museums.

3

There are, I should note, other

4

museums that take different approaches.

5

are museums that are more concerned with a kind

6

of encyclopedic collecting strategy, trying

7

almost in a kind of time capsule way to capture

8

everything or much of the material culture of

9

the period.

10

There

In the design fields, that also is a

11

on a sort of encyclopedic collection of material

13

culture and those that are concerned with

14

establishing a meaningful relationship between a

15

collection of architecture and design and the

16

other collections that exist in the museum; at

17

SFMOMA, photography, painting and sculpture and

18

10:51AM

kind of split between museums that are focused

12

10:51AM

new media.

19

10:52AM

What joined us all was an effort to

20

tell a story, to tell a compelling, truthful and

21

meaningful story about culture and its

22

evolution.

23

Q.

10:52AM

Is it the case that -- did you ever

24

acquire any items that you considered to be

25

museum worthy for -- for example, because they

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:52AM

Page 38
1
2
3

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
were a controversial item?
A.

I did acquire some controversial

4

items.

5

reason for acquiring them.

6

I would not say that that was the major

Q.

10:53AM

Then you also said that you were

7

hoping to tell a truthful and meaningful story

8

about culture and its evolution.

9
10

How did that affect what you
acquired?

10:53AM

11

A.

12

sure...

13

Q.

In what way?

14

A.

Can you rephrase the question?

15

Q.

Sure.

16

It governed my decisions.

I'm not

10:53AM

In telling a truthful and meaningful

17

story about culture and its evolution, did you

18

have any particular criteria for what types of

19

items would tell that story?

20

A.

Generally speaking, I was interested

21

in objects that could be used to reveal this

22

concept of design and its representation, which

23

is to say that -- again, that ideas, habits,

24

norms, values, are represented through objects.

25

That was certainly one dominant strand.

10:53AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:54AM

Page 39
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

Another was to locate significant

3

points of intersection between important

4

architecture and design movements and movements

5

in other fields, for example, that the museum

6

was interested in.

7

10:54AM

And then there were also objects that

8

I collected simply -- we collected simply

9

largely because they were first in their class.

10

Sometimes there were also social or kind of

11

anthropological stories that gave objects

12

particular resonance.

13

10:54AM

There was also a strand -- when I

14

mentioned that one collects to consolidate the

15

strengths of a collection, partly because of

16

when SFMOMA began collecting, but also because

17

of the interests of the three curators that

18

preceded me, as well as my own, there is a

19

concentration of experimental and visionary

20

work, for example, what might be called paper

21

architecture, which is a somewhat different

22

approach to museums that are more focused on

23

buildings, documents of buildings, just as an

24

example.

25

Q.

You had mentioned that you had some

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

10:55AM

10:55AM

10:55AM

Page 40
1
2

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only
Bang & Olufsen products in the museum?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

And what were some of the reasons why

5
6

you acquired those?
A.

10:55AM

Bang & Olufsen is one of those

7

companies, and there are a handful of them, who

8

in the 20th century committed to design

9

excellence as integral to their brand identity

10

and became known by the public as a company

11

committed to design.

12

gorgeous.

13
14
15

Q.

10:56AM

And the objects were

And when you say design excellence,

what do you mean by that phrase?
A.

I think in every field of endeavor,

16

experts are able to assert what excellence is.

17

In design, one of the ways to determine that

18

is -- sort of a classic way, I suppose -- is

19

that the relation of form and content has a kind

20

of inevitability to it.

10:56AM

21

10:57AM

But there are many -- the history of

22

design is full of competing ideas about what

23

makes for excellence.

24
25

One of the ways that I -- I think we
can leave it at that.

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

10:57AM

877-702-9580

Page 44
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

A.

Likely.

3

Q.

Let me ask you just a few more

4

questions on background-type things and then

5

we'll take a break.

11:02AM

6

A.

Okay.

7

Q.

Prior to working for SFMOMA, where

8
9

were you working?
A.

I had a gallery in New York called

10

Henry Urbach Architecture.

11

contemporary art and architecture.

It was a gallery of

12

Q.

And how long were you working there?

13

A.

11:02AM

I founded it in late 1995, and did

14

not have a physical space but worked as a kind

15

of freelance curator/dealer until 1998, when I

16

opened my space, and I ran my gallery as a space

17

from 1998 till 2005.

18
19

Q.

11:02AM

I was having to chase down to the end

of the transcript.

20

And was it a gallery, you called it?

21

A.

Yes.

22

Q.

11:03AM

And that gallery was devoted to

23

architecture, as well as works of art?

24

A.

Yes.

25

Q.

And do you have a recollection of

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

11:03AM

Page 45
1

H. Urbach - Highly Confidential - Attorneys Eyes Only

2

what types of exhibits you put, exhibitions that

3

you put on there?

4

A.

Yes.

5

Q.

Do you have an example of one that

6
7

11:03AM

you did?
A.

How shall I choose?

There were -- I

8

did 50 exhibitions when I had my gallery.

9

would you like to know?

10
11
12

Q.

What

I mean, was there a general theme to

11:04AM

the exhibitions?
A.

I found the best artists and

13

architects that I could work with.

14

them -- there tended to be a good number of

15

installations, environmental strategies for

16

presenting work.

17

Some of

11:04AM

But we had photography exhibitions,

18

sculpture, painting, architectural drawing,

19

video.

20

contemporary with a few modern period

21

exceptions, such as a show of Le Corbusier

22

drawings that I presented.

23

Q.

It ran the gamut in terms of media.

All
11:04AM

And did you ever feature examples of

24

consumer electronics products in your

25

exhibitions?

11:04AM

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580

Page 184
1
2
3
4
5

C E R T I F I C A T E
STATE OF NEW YORK

)
: ss.

COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER

)

6
7

I, ANNETTE ARLEQUIN, a Notary Public

8

within and for the State of New York, do

9

hereby certify:

10

That HENRY A. URBACH, whose deposition

11

is hereinbefore set forth, was duly sworn

12

by me, and that the transcript of such

13

depositions is a true record of the

14

testimony given by such witness.

15

I further certify that I am not related

16

to any of the parties to this action by

17

blood or marriage; and that I am in no way

18

interested in the outcome of this matter.

19
20

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
my hand this 19th day of April, 2012.

21
22

________________________________

23

ANNETTE ARLEQUIN, CCR, RPR, CLR

24
25

TSG Reporting - Worldwide

877-702-9580