Campbell et al v. Facebook Inc.
Filing
179
Joint Notice of Refiling of Documents Accompanying Class Certification Briefs and Evidentiary Objections. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1 (Redacted), # 2 Exhibit 2 (Redacted), # 3 Exhibit 3 (Redacted), # 4 Exhibit 4 (Redacted), # 5 Exhibit 5 (Redacted), # 6 Exhibit 6 (Redacted), # 7 Exhibit 7 (Redacted), # 8 Exhibit 8 (Unredacted), # 9 Exhibit 9 (Unredacted), # 10 Exhibit 10 (Redacted), # 11 Exhibit 11 (Redacted), # 12 Exhibit 12 (Redacted), # 13 Exhibit 13 (Redacted), # 14 Exhibit 14 (Redacted), # 15 Exhibit 15 (Redacted), # 16 Exhibit 16 (Redacted), # 17 Exhibit 17 (Redacted), # 18 Exhibit 18 (Redacted), # 19 Exhibit 19 (Unredacted), # 20 Exhibit 20 (Redacted), # 21 Exhibit 21 (Redacted), # 22 Exhibit 22 (Unredacted), # 23 Exhibit 23 (Redacted), # 24 Exhibit 24 (Redacted), # 25 Exhibit 25 (Unredacted))(Chorba, Christopher) (Filed on 3/28/2016) Modified on 3/29/2016 (kcS, COURT STAFF).
1
2
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
3
OAKLAND DIVISION
4
5
MATTHEW CAMPBELL, MICHAEL HURLEY, )
and DAVID SHADPOUR,
)
6
)
Plaintiffs,
7
) Case No.
vs.
) C 13-05996 PJH
8
)
FACEBOOK, INC.,
)
9
)
Defendant.
10
)
)
__________________________________)
11
12
13
14
15
16
VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF MATTHEW D. CAMPBELL
17
San Francisco, California
18
May 19, 2015
19
Volume I
20
21
22
Reported by:
CARLA SOARES
23
CSR No. 5908
24
Job No. 2067810
25
Pages 1 - 294
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anybody else?
2
A
Just with my wife.
3
Q
Just generally, what have you discussed
4
09:14:18
regarding this case with your wife?
5
A
The underlying basis of the suit and the
6
allegations against Facebook.
7
being in the lawsuit, I guess, was one of her first
8
questions.
9
09:14:32
it.
10
11
12
Q
And how I wound up
And that's more or less the extent of
And how did you end up being involved in
09:14:49
the lawsuit?
A
I had -- how did it work?
I had a
13
conversation with Mr. Slade.
14
underlying facts and asked if I would be interested
15
because -- first asked if I had any sort of messages
16
that would have had URLs and would have, you know,
17
kind of fallen into the subject matter.
18
when I said I had, he asked if I would be
19
interested.
20
21
22
Q
He mentioned the
09:15:09
And then
And did he reach out to you or did you
09:15:22
reach out to him?
A
We -- I honestly can't remember.
23
up in the course of a conversation.
24
It came
who broached it first.
25
Q
I'm not sure
Did you know Mr. Slade before this initial
09:15:40
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contact?
09:15:43
2
A
Yes.
3
Q
How did you know him?
4
A
Well, I've known him for probably three
5
years.
I can't recall exactly how I met him.
6
Q
7
or classmate?
8
A
Friend.
9
Q
Do you remember when you first met him?
10
A
About three years ago.
11
Q
What about the circumstances?
09:15:53
Was he a personal acquaintance or a friend
12
social function?
13
09:16:09
Was it a
some sort?
14
A
Was it a professional meeting of
I think we had a -- still have a mutual
15
friend, and that's how we sort of encountered one
16
another.
17
18
Q
09:16:20
And who is the mutual friend, if you
remember?
19
A
His name is
20
Q
Okay.
Can you just give me,
21
Mr. Campbell -- again, you've been through this
22
process before.
23
bit of your educational background.
24
school, where you went, when you graduated, college,
25
and I know you attended law school as well.
09:16:35
So I'd just like to get a little
Start with high
09:16:52
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Q
Not for the Facebook page that you set up?
2
A
Correct.
3
Q
And do you know who that 1 represents?
4
A
I have no idea.
5
Q
Do you know if there's any way to find
6
09:46:44
That's my understanding.
09:46:56
that out?
7
A
I have no idea.
8
Q
I think you mentioned you have a Facebook
9
page for the Pinnacle Law Firm.
10
A
Yes.
09:47:08
11
MR. CHORBA:
12
(Exhibit 2 was marked for identification
13
14
Let's mark this as Exhibit 2.
and is attached hereto.)
BY MR. CHORBA:
15
Q
Mr. Campbell, please take a moment to
16
review the document that the court reporter has
17
09:47:29
handed you which we've marked as Exhibit 2.
18
And I'll represent to you that this is a
19
copy of the Pinnacle Law Firm public-facing page
20
that we found on Facebook and printed about a week
21
ago.
22
let me know when you're ready.
09:47:42
Just take a moment to familiarize yourself and
23
A
Okay.
24
Q
Why do you have a Facebook page for the
25
Pinnacle Law Firm?
09:47:59
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A
For advertising purposes for the law firm.
2
Q
Who would you say is your audience for the
3
4
5
09:48:01
advertising?
A
Potentially any potential client in
Arkansas with access to Facebook.
6
Q
Anyone else?
7
A
Not that I can think of specifically, no.
8
Q
09:48:23
You mentioned -- and we don't have to turn
9
back to it, but I think one of the areas you
10
identified was assisting with appellate advocacy in
11
Arkansas.
12
A
Yes.
13
Q
09:48:40
Do you ever partner with counsel and
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
assist them with the appellate process?
A
I have to varying degrees two or three
09:48:51
times over the last couple of years.
Q
Do you consider co-counsel to be your
clients in those situations?
A
It depends on the arrangement between
myself and co-counsel.
Q
09:49:06
Would those potential co-counsel
22
relationships be another potential audience for your
23
Facebook page?
24
25
A
Possibly.
I've never -- never gotten a
co-counsel arrangement from somebody that I didn't
09:49:26
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know outside of Facebook.
2
Q
09:49:29
How about I guess direct client
3
relationships?
4
Facebook page?
5
6
A
Have any of those come out of your
Possibly.
I can't think of any one
09:49:48
specific.
7
Q
When you go through the client intake
8
process, do you ask your clients or prospective
9
clients how they heard of you?
10
A
Yes.
09:49:57
11
Q
As part of that, do you have a list of
12
questions, a sort of set checklist that you go
13
through, or is it more just ad hoc?
14
A
It's more ad hoc.
I'll ask that at some
15
point during the intake process.
16
information that I have a form for is identifying
17
information and contact information, potential
18
witnesses.
19
Q
But the only
09:50:08
As part of that intake process, do you ask
20
the specific question, "Did you see my Facebook
21
page?"
22
A
No.
23
Q
09:50:24
But you said it's possible that you've
24
obtained clients through the public-facing Facebook
25
page?
09:50:33
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2
A
No.
Two of my friends have administrator
10:09:54
access and help with the tech side of things.
3
Q
4
And who are those friends?
A
10:10:10
6
7
8
9
Q
And do
help you with the
running of the website?
A
does from time to time on the -- on
this kind of stuff, the layout and the tech side of
10
things.
11
Q
12
13
10:10:28
And did you ask them to add Facebook and
Twitter functionality to your website?
A
I don't know if I asked
or if he just
14
mentioned it and asked me if I wanted him to do it.
15
But at some point there was a conversation.
16
17
Q
10:10:44
And you approved of having this on the
website?
18
A
Yes.
19
Q
Why did you approve of having Facebook
20
social plug-in technology on your website?
21
A
I don't know that there was a particular
22
reason.
I just didn't see a reason not to include
23
10:11:02
it given that it was an option.
24
Q
Do you think it's beneficial to have it on
25
your website?
10:11:17
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A
Honestly, I don't know that I see any
2
benefit to this particular social plug-in.
3
there is some benefit to the website from Facebook,
4
10:11:25
but I don't think this plug-in is it.
5
6
7
Q
I think
What is the benefit to the website from
10:11:38
Facebook?
A
Generating traffic back to the website
8
from the actual Blue Hog Report Facebook page is the
9
primary benefit that I've seen.
10
Q
And how about if we turn to page 3, the
11
"Like" button.
12
10:11:54
And again, do you recognize this as
a specific article --
13
A
Yes.
14
Q
-- page?
15
So if we turn back to page 1, if we were
16
to click on one of those articles, it would bring up
17
a page that looks a little bit like 3.
18
the specific article here, but this would be the
19
10:12:03
general layout; is that correct?
Maybe not
20
A
Yes.
10:12:15
21
Q
If you notice at the top right it says,
22
"facebook.com/bluehogreport," and then
23
"@bluehogreport."
24
25
Is the second one the Twitter handle?
A
Yes.
10:12:27
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active use?
2
that category?
3
A
What types of uses are you including in
10:32:12
Posting anything, myself posting things to
4
my timeline, posting things to the Blue Hog page or
5
the Pinnacle Law Firm page, commenting on other
6
people's statuses or posts.
7
Q
Do you enjoy using Facebook?
8
A
I guess so, most of the time.
9
Q
And why?
10
A
It's entertaining at times.
10:32:27
11
12
13
14
It's
10:33:03
occasionally informative.
Q
You said "most of the time."
Is there a
time you don't enjoy using Facebook?
A
Just in those moments of, you know,
15
somebody's wrong on the Internet and it becomes
16
these inane Facebook arguments between friends.
17
18
19
20
21
22
Q
10:33:22
When did you first use the Facebook
Messenger product?
A
I have no idea beyond just right around
the same time that it was added to my account.
Q
10:33:49
And do you remember approximately when
that was?
23
A
No.
24
Q
And you've -- since filing this lawsuit in
25
No.
December 2013, have you continued to use Facebook?
10:34:11
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A
Yes.
2
Q
Why?
3
A
Are you asking about the Messenger product
4
5
6
10:34:14
specifically or Facebook broadly?
Q
Let's deal with each in sequence.
How
10:34:32
about Facebook more broadly?
7
A
Why have I continued to use that?
8
Q
Yes.
9
A
Because I had no reason to stop using it
10
11
12
13
simply based on filing the lawsuit.
Q
10:34:40
That's a reason I guess not to stop.
But
why did you continue to use it?
A
I suppose because it's the largest social
14
media site in the world, and most of the people I
15
know are on there.
16
17
Q
10:35:01
And how about Messages?
Have you
continued to use Messages since filing the suit?
18
A
Yes.
19
Q
At any point have you -- we talked about
20
the Blue Hog page and the Pinnacle page.
At any
21
point have you ever given access to your personal
22
Facebook account to anybody else?
23
A
No.
24
Q
10:35:19
As far as you know, has anyone ever sent
25
messages through your personal account on your
10:35:32
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private messenger function.
2
Q
3
that you had?
4
A
10:48:31
5
And what was the source of the information
There was a conversation with David Slade.
MR. CARNEY:
I'd caution you here not to
6
discuss the actual language you and Mr. Slade used
7
10:48:46
in any discussions you had.
8
THE WITNESS:
9
MR. CHORBA:
Are you objecting, Counsel?
10
MR. CARNEY:
Yes.
11
MR. CHORBA:
On what basis?
12
MR. CARNEY:
No, I'm not objecting.
13
10:48:57
I'm
just --
14
Okay.
BY MR. CHORBA:
15
Q
You can answer, Mr. Campbell.
10:49:01
16
A
There was a conversation with Mr. Slade in
17
reference to a 2013 Wall Street Journal article that
18
discussed the practice of scanning the private
19
messages.
20
21
Q
And when was this conversation with
10:49:19
Mr. Slade?
22
A
Sometime late 2013, after The Wall Street
23
Journal article came out but before the lawsuit was
24
filed.
25
Q
And how did you speak with Mr. Slade?
Was
10:49:33
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it phone call, in person, or through some other
2
means?
3
4
5
6
A
10:49:35
I believe it was a combination of Facebook
message and also a phone call.
Q
How did -- did Mr. Slade contact you or
10:49:49
did you contact him?
7
A
8
recall.
9
Q
I don't recall.
I think -- I don't
Did you know about the 2013 Wall Street
10
Journal article that you referenced before speaking
11
with Mr. Slade?
12
A
I believe I did.
13
Q
10:50:01
And how did you come to be aware of that
14
15
16
article?
A
I think I saw that someone had posted it
10:50:24
on Facebook.
17
Q
One of your friends?
18
A
I couldn't tell you.
19
Someone who showed
up in my news feed in some form or another.
20
Q
You don't remember who it was?
21
A
No.
22
Q
Do you remember if it was at the time the
23
24
25
10:50:35
article was published or was it sometime after?
A
I couldn't tell you.
I mean, by
definition it was sometime after the article had
10:50:51
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(Recess, 11:03 a.m. - 11:10 a.m.)
2
THE VIDEO OPERATOR:
11:03:02
We are back on the
3
record at 11:10 a.m.
4
Volume I, Media No. 2, of the deposition of Matthew
5
Campbell.
6
BY MR. CHORBA:
7
Q
8
9
10
This marks the beginning of
Please continue.
11:10:07
Welcome back, Mr. Campbell.
I should have asked this earlier, but you
understand that when we take breaks, you're still
under oath when you return?
11
A
Yes.
12
Q
Okay.
11:10:14
Turning back to Exhibit No. 6, we
13
were talking about the phrase "scanning of private
14
messages in the manner alleged in the complaint."
15
Are there any practices that you
16
challenge, as far as you know, that are not alleged
17
11:10:31
in the complaint?
18
A
No.
19
Q
So you noted earlier you'd need to have a
20
copy of the complaint.
If we consulted the
21
complaint and we consulted this response, it would
22
be complete, there's nothing else that wouldn't be
23
identified, either there or here?
24
A
Correct.
25
Q
Did you ever contemplate bringing a
11:10:45
11:10:56
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lawsuit against Facebook before speaking to
2
Mr. Slade?
3
4
5
A
11:11:06
No.
(Question not answered per instruction of counsel:)
Q
At the time you spoke with Mr. Slade, did
6
he tell you that he was filing a lawsuit against
7
11:11:17
Facebook?
8
9
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
attorney-client privilege.
It calls for
I'm going to instruct
10
the deponent not to answer that question.
11
BY MR. CHORBA:
12
13
Q
11:11:31
Are you going to follow your counsel's
instruction, Mr. Campbell?
14
A
Yes.
15
Q
At the time you spoke with Mr. Slade, did
16
17
11:11:41
he ask you to serve as a plaintiff in this lawsuit?
A
I don't know that he asked me.
I wouldn't
18
go so far as to say that he asked me to be a
19
plaintiff.
20
Q
Did you volunteer to serve as a plaintiff?
21
A
After discussion with him, yes.
22
Q
At any point in time during these
23
discussions with Mr. Slade in or about October or
24
November of 2013, was there discussion of a
25
potential monetary recovery from any lawsuit, yes or
11:12:04
11:12:22
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privilege log, dated October 30, 2013?
2
A
I believe so, yes.
3
Q
11:16:37
Again, the statement in this letter
4
dated -- or marked as Exhibit 6 is accurate?
5
A
Yes.
11:16:52
6
Q
So it's true you first learned of the
7
facts concerning Facebook's scanning of private
8
messages in the manner alleged in the complaint
9
through this private message from Mr. Slade on
10
October 30, 2013?
11:17:03
11
A
Yes.
12
Q
Mr. Campbell, when you made the decision
13
to join or serve as a plaintiff in this lawsuit
14
against Facebook, were you aware of similar class
15
action lawsuits pending against Google and Yahoo!
16
regarding the alleged scanning of email messages?
17
A
No.
18
Q
11:17:20
Have you since become aware of those
19
lawsuits?
20
21
22
23
24
25
A
Only in the broadest sense that they
Q
11:17:31
What do you know about those other
exist.
lawsuits?
A
Literally just what you just said, that
there are lawsuits regarding emails.
11:17:42
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2
3
point or another, I ran into him in person.
Q
11:20:19
And who is your friend that works at the
law school?
4
A
5
Q
And which law school is this?
6
A
University of Arkansas Little Rock.
7
Q
And had you had other meetings with
11:20:27
8
Mr. Slade before October 30, 2013, or was it just
9
one meeting in person before then?
10
encounter?
11
Or one
meeting, necessarily.
12
13
A
You mentioned an encounter, not a
11:20:52
I've run into him in a social setting
multiple times.
14
Q
Do you consider him one of your friends?
15
A
Yes.
16
Q
Had he ever represented you before?
17
A
No.
18
Q
And was it during this post October 30,
11:21:02
19
2013, meeting, you know, a week give or take four
20
days after, was that when you decided to retain
21
Mr. Slade to represent you in your case against
22
Facebook?
23
A
11:21:16
I believe it was actually over a telephone
24
call that I sort of made the final decision.
I
25
think by the time we met in person, that had already
11:21:38
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2
3
kind of been more or less established.
Q
11:21:40
And this was a phone call after the
initial private message?
4
A
Yes.
5
Q
Did you ever consider using attorneys
6
other than Mr. Slade or his firm to bring this
7
11:21:49
lawsuit?
8
A
No.
9
Q
Why not?
10
A
Because I knew David and I trusted his
11
12
11:21:59
understanding of the subject matter.
Q
And at the time I guess you first met with
13
David through your mutual contact,
14
what did you know to be David's practice area?
15
Mr. Slade's practice area?
16
A
Excuse me.
11:22:26
Other than knowing the firm that he worked
17
at, I didn't -- I hadn't actually talked to him
18
about his practice area.
19
in practice a few years, and our interactions had
20
been social, not work-related.
He only -- he's only been
21
Q
And when did he graduate, do you know?
22
A
I don't know.
23
Q
But recently, within the last ten years?
24
A
Oh, yeah.
25
Q
Did he graduate after you graduated from
11:22:48
Definitely.
11:22:57
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(Recess, 11:24 a.m. - 11:34 a.m.)
2
THE VIDEO OPERATOR:
3
The time is 11:34.
4
11:24:56
Back on the record.
Please continue.
MR. CARNEY:
Counsel, we've had the
5
opportunity to confer, and without certainly waiving
6
any attorney-client privilege rights we have, I'm
7
going to instruct my client to answer your last
8
question.
9
10
MR. CHORBA:
12
13
Do you need me to repeat the
last question?
11
11:34:12
11:34:27
MR. CARNEY:
Could you do that?
Yeah.
BY MR. CHORBA:
Q
I believe I asked you, Mr. Campbell,
14
whether it was fair to say Mr. Slade identified and
15
picked you as opposed to you selecting Mr. Slade to
16
bring this action.
17
why is that not accurate?
18
You answered no.
I asked you,
Can you answer that question now?
19
A
Yes.
20
Q
And that was after your discussions with
21
11:34:36
I volunteered to be the plaintiff.
11:34:52
Mr. Slade?
22
A
Yes.
23
Q
And you had not reached out to Mr. Slade
24
about bringing an action against Facebook before he
25
contacted you?
11:35:06
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A
Correct.
2
Q
So why is it -- why is my characterization
3
that he picked you, you didn't pick him, inaccurate?
4
5
11:35:06
A
Because he didn't contact me to ask me to
be the plaintiff.
6
Q
7
11:35:25
Why did he contact you?
Let me ask it in yes or no form.
Did he
8
contact you because he was contemplating a lawsuit
9
against Facebook, yes or no?
10
11
A
I can't speak to what he was
11:35:52
contemplating.
12
Q
Do you know why he contacted you?
13
A
Yes.
14
Q
And why did he contact you?
15
A
He contacted me as a fellow attorney, just
16
sort of -- just sort of discussing broadly the
17
11:36:06
facts.
18
19
Q
Had he ever contacted you before regarding
potential litigation?
20
A
No.
11:36:25
21
Q
And when in this sequence did you
22
volunteer to serve as a plaintiff?
We mentioned --
23
by "this sequence," I mean you have the initial
24
message by Mr. Slade, October 30.
25
meeting, I guess, three to 11 days after that.
There's the
11:36:49
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2
3
When in that sequence did you volunteer to
11:36:54
become a plaintiff?
A
I believe -- I can't say for certain.
4
believe I tossed out the idea in the message and
5
then confirmed it to him in the telephone
6
conversation.
7
Q
I
11:37:09
That's my memory of it.
And when you say you tossed out the idea
8
in the message, was that in your response to
9
Mr. Slade's Facebook message to you on October 30,
10
11
12
13
or was it at a later date?
A
Oh, no.
11:37:28
I see what your question is.
It
would have been in that October 30 exchange.
Q
So is that -- as far as you know, is that
14
the second entry on the privilege log marked as
15
Exhibit 7?
16
Matt Campbell, Recipient, David Slade."
It states, "October 30, 2013, Author,
17
A
I suppose it would have to be.
18
Q
11:37:42
So the sequence, Mr. Slade writes to you,
19
you then respond and volunteer to serve as a
20
plaintiff?
21
A
11:38:04
Again, I'm working from memory.
It's
22
possible that that message a few days later on 11-3
23
was where I volunteered.
24
whether it was my immediate response on 10-30 or the
25
one a few days later.
I can't say for certain
11:38:16
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all decisions.
2
allegations that are made in the complaint.
3
provided hundreds of pages of documents in
4
discovery.
5
locate those documents with Mr. Slade and my other
6
attorneys.
7
I've had input into the factual
12:14:25
I've
I've walked through the search for -- to
12:14:47
At every step along the way, I've had --
8
I've been kept in the loop on communication and had
9
some input.
10
Q
Was there any -- ever any point in time,
11
yes or no, where your attorneys wanted to either
12
assert a claim or take a certain position and you
13
12:15:06
rejected that proposal, yes or no?
14
A
No.
15
Q
Were there ever any strategic decisions
16
where you disagreed, yes or no, with their proposed
17
12:15:26
course of action?
18
19
20
21
A
No.
I've deferred to them for all legal
strategy.
Q
You mentioned local counsel.
Is that
12:15:42
Mr. Carney's firm?
22
A
Yeah.
They've been my point of contact.
23
Q
Local counsel kind of has a special
24
connotation with lawyers, as I'm sure you
25
understand.
They're counsel of record in this case?
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A
Right.
2
Q
I just wanted to clarify.
3
A
I spoke inarticulately there.
4
Q
You meant they were local to you?
5
A
Right.
6
Q
Got it.
7
8
I --
12:15:56
I'm sorry.
12:16:05
Have you served, or on your behalf, have
discovery requests been served on Facebook?
9
A
To my knowledge, yes.
10
Q
Do you know what types of requests?
11
A
I do not.
12
Q
Interrogatories?
13
14
15
12:16:23
Do you know whether
there have been interrogatories served?
A
I don't know.
That's something that I've
deferred to the attorneys.
16
Q
How about document requests?
17
A
I don't know.
18
Q
12:16:36
Did you participate in any way in the
19
drafting of discovery requests directed to Facebook?
20
A
No.
21
Q
But you provided discovery responses in
22
I'm not the attorney in this case.
12:16:58
this case, correct?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
Whose decision was it to bring this case
25
as a class action?
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2
3
4
A
That was a decision by one of the
12:17:18
attorneys involved or all of the attorneys involved.
Q
Did you review the initial disclosures
served on behalf of the plaintiffs in this case?
5
A
Yes.
6
Q
Did you review the supplemental initial
7
12:17:30
disclosures?
8
A
Yes.
9
Q
Did you review the responses served on
10
your behalf to Facebook's interrogatories?
11
A
Yes.
12
Q
12:17:39
And did you review a set of corrected
13
responses to Facebook's interrogatories?
14
A
Yes.
15
Q
How about the document requests, responses
16
to the document requests?
17
12:17:49
Did you review those
before they were filed?
18
A
Yes.
19
Q
Did you sign any of these documents?
20
A
I don't recall one way or the other.
21
Q
Do you remember reviewing all these
22
12:18:03
responses for accuracy?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
Did you make every effort to make sure
25
they were correct?
12:18:12
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or icon?
13:44:08
2
A
Yeah, that's a fair description.
3
Q
And when you've sent messages, you've seen
4
that URL preview?
5
A
Yes, I've seen it.
6
Q
Have you seen it every time you've
7
8
9
10
13:44:17
included a URL or just sometimes?
A
I don't recall.
I don't know that I've
seen it every time.
Q
And how would you determine whether or not
11
you've seen it every time?
12
13:44:28
you've seen it every time?
13
A
Could you determine if
Retroactively, probably not.
I know that
14
it wasn't a feature, to my recollection, when the
15
private messaging was first introduced.
16
along later.
That came
17
Q
Do you remember when?
18
A
No.
19
Q
13:44:46
Do you understand that Facebook has copies
20
of messages that its users send and that are stored
21
on its servers?
22
A
13:44:55
Again, I can't say that I know that
23
they're stored on Facebook's servers.
I understand
24
that they have copies based on my ability to
25
download these through this litigation.
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that yield a larger universe than the universe you
2
ultimately produced?
3
MR. CARNEY:
4
THE WITNESS:
13:48:42
Object to form.
I produced 100 percent of
5
what I downloaded and searched -- 100 percent of
6
what I had I produced to counsel.
7
BY MR. CHORBA:
8
9
10
Q
13:48:52
And when you downloaded, did you download
messages -- only messages that contained URLs or did
you just download everything?
13:49:05
11
A
I downloaded everything.
12
Q
And do you understand that what was
13
produced was only those messages that contained
14
URLs?
15
A
That seems to be what is represented, yes.
16
Q
And do you know why it was limited in that
17
13:49:18
fashion?
18
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form to the extent
19
it involved discussions you had with counsel.
20
I'm instructing you not to answer.
21
BY MR. CHORBA:
22
23
Q
I asked a yes or no.
And
13:49:29
Do you know why it
was limited in that manner, yes or no?
24
A
Yes.
25
Q
And why was that?
Can you answer that
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2
3
without consulting with your attorney?
A
decision.
I can -- no, I can't.
13:49:41
That was a legal
I deferred to them on that.
4
Q
That was not your decision?
5
A
No.
I've deferred the actual legal
6
matters in this case to the attorneys who are
7
13:50:01
handling it.
8
9
10
11
12
Q
Mr. Campbell, what is your understanding
of how the Facebook "Like" social plug-in works?
A
Beyond what I testified to earlier, I
13:50:16
don't know that I have additional understanding.
Q
In this lawsuit, do you object to the,
13
quote, scanning, end quote, of Facebook messages to
14
increase the "Like" count?
15
A
Yes.
13:50:35
16
Q
And do you object in this lawsuit to the,
17
quote, scanning of Facebook messages for the
18
purposes of developing user profiles to support and
19
deliver targeted advertising?
20
A
Yes.
21
Q
Do you object to the, quote, scanning, end
22
13:50:49
quote, of Facebook messages for any purpose?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
Are there any exceptions to that?
25
A
With respect to my messages, none that I
13:51:06
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can think of.
2
Q
3
4
13:51:08
What about scanning messages in order to
deliver them to the intended recipients?
A
Scanning the content of the message to
5
deliver it to the intended recipient, yes, I would
6
object to that.
7
8
Q
13:51:25
What about scanning messages to filter
messages?
9
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
10
You can answer.
11
THE WITNESS:
12
Can you be more specific in
terms of -- filter how?
13
13:51:37
BY MR. CHORBA:
14
15
Q
What about scanning messages to store the
messages?
13:51:47
16
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
17
You can answer.
18
THE WITNESS:
I -- yes, I would object.
I
19
don't see a purpose, why the content would need to
20
be scanned for storage purposes.
21
BY MR. CHORBA:
22
Q
Let's carve out scanning the content.
23
purpose.
25
actual content of the message?
I'm
not asking about scanning -- scanning for any
24
13:51:58
Is your objection limited to scanning the
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A
I can't --
13:52:14
2
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
3
You can answer.
4
THE WITNESS:
I can't see what other --
5
I'm wondering if we're using different meanings for
6
"scanning" here.
7
BY MR. CHORBA:
8
9
10
11
Q
Why don't you explain what you mean by
"scanning."
It's a term you've used earlier and in
your responses, so I'm trying to understand that.
A
13:52:24
13:52:32
I mean specifically looking at and
12
extracting information from the content of the
13
message itself.
14
it's addressed to as scanning.
15
16
17
Q
Okay.
I don't consider looking at who
So identifying the actual recipient
13:52:49
you wouldn't consider content?
A
Correct.
I would -- that would be the
18
same as -- I look at that as the same as addressing
19
a letter to somebody.
20
without having any idea what's inside the envelope.
21
22
Q
Okay.
13:53:06
And how about the -- I guess the
date of the message?
23
MR. CARNEY:
24
THE WITNESS:
25
You can see who it's going to
Object to form.
To the extent that that's
separate from the content of the message, then I
13:53:24
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wouldn't object to that.
2
the date on a postmark.
3
BY MR. CHORBA:
4
Q
I'd say that's similar to
13:53:29
So when you refer to scanning, you're
5
talking exclusively about the content, and by
6
"content," you mean what's in the actual message,
7
the body of the message itself?
8
A
Yes.
9
Q
Does that include URLs?
10
A
Yes.
11
Q
13:53:39
Does that include URLs to generate URL
12
13
13:53:51
previews?
A
To the extent that it requires more than
14
just sort of an automatic -- more than an automatic
15
function of the software, yes.
16
Q
13:54:13
What do you mean by "automatic function of
17
the software"?
18
understand.
19
A
I just want to make sure I
This is sort of getting above my pay grade
20
in terms of technology, but if that's a function
21
that is just coded into the software and it happens
22
automatically and that information goes no further
23
than to create that preview, which I can then choose
24
to remove, I see that as -- I would not object to it
25
in that situation.
Anything beyond that, yes.
13:54:25
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Q
What about checking to make sure a URL is
2
a valid URL and not, for example, a URL that
3
redirects to a malicious website?
4
scanning necessary to ensure that it's not
5
redirecting to a malicious website, do you have an
6
13:54:46
objection to that?
7
A
If they're
13:55:01
On some level, yes, to the extent it gets
8
into any sort of content or any use of the
9
information contained therein.
10
11
Q
What if the information is used solely to
13:55:22
protect the integrity of the site?
12
A
To protect the integrity of Facebook's
14
Q
Yes.
15
A
I suppose I need a more concrete example
13
16
17
site?
13:55:39
before I can answer that.
Q
Okay.
Let's say hypothetically it
18
redirects to a site that then downloads malware,
19
either into Facebook itself or into the user's
20
computer.
21
22
23
24
25
13:55:52
Would that be an example of scanning the
content of a message to which you would object?
A
Would it even be possible for a site to
download malware into Facebook's site?
Q
Let's say -- let's put Facebook's site
13:56:04
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aside.
2
site -- assume for the moment that it is possible --
3
would you have an objection to that?
4
5
If it's to protect the integrity of the
A
13:56:07
I would, because there are other ways that
Facebook could protect itself from such malware.
6
Q
How would that be?
7
A
13:56:23
They could block the installation directly
8
instead of preventing the sending of a message.
9
They could protect themselves on the back end.
10
Q
And how about scanning, as you defined it,
11
the URL to make sure it's not redirecting to a
12
malicious website that would then be used to
13
download malware to the individual user's computer?
14
13:56:42
Would you have an objection to that?
15
A
I would, because to my understanding,
16
Facebook would not be liable for what happened to
17
that other user's computer.
18
Facebook is scanning to prevent that to be a little
19
disingenuous.
20
Q
13:57:06
So I find the idea that
So your objections hinge on whether or not
21
Facebook would be legally liable to its users and
22
13:57:19
not whether it's designed to protect its users?
23
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
24
You can answer.
25
THE WITNESS:
Only in the specific
13:57:29
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previous example that you gave.
2
BY MR. CHORBA:
3
Q
13:57:31
What about scanning of the content of
4
messages, again as you've defined, and in
5
particular, the URLs that are on lists maintained by
6
law enforcement as known child pornography sites?
7
A
13:57:41
I would still object to that to the extent
8
that it got into -- if it went beyond just blocking
9
that outright.
10
If it was something where a person could
13:58:10
11
not even send it so that it wasn't actually scanning
12
content, that would be one thing.
13
well, you can send, but we're going to keep an eye
14
on it and then do something with that information,
15
you again get back into the content and the
16
expectation of privacy.
17
Q
I think saying,
Do you know of a way for -- yes or no:
18
Do
you know of a way for a company to just block that
19
13:58:20
without scanning, in your terms, the actual URL?
20
21
22
23
24
25
A
No.
That's something that's outside my
13:58:38
area of knowledge.
Q
Do you object to, in general, scanning of
messages to detect criminal conduct?
A
Yes.
I don't think Facebook's role --
that's Facebook's role.
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2
Q
What about scanning messages to render the
13:59:00
message in the appropriate language?
3
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
4
You can answer.
5
THE WITNESS:
That's getting a little more
6
technical than I'm completely familiar with.
7
again, if it requires actual access of the content
8
rather than just sort of an automatic translation,
9
13:59:21
then yes, I would object.
10
11
But
BY MR. CHORBA:
Q
13:59:37
And do you have any objection to
12
Facebook -- let's put scanning aside for a moment --
13
processing messages to render them in the
14
appropriate language?
15
A
Can you define "processing"?
16
Q
Processing in a way so that it makes sure
17
that if you're sending it to someone, it will
18
13:59:47
actually display in the user's language.
19
20
21
A
Isn't that basically the previous
question?
Q
14:00:03
I'm distinguishing your use of "scanning"
22
versus -- I'm using a more generic term,
23
"processing."
24
available to the user.
25
In other words, rendering, making it
Let's put scanning -- we've asked a bunch
14:00:15
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of questions using your definition of "scanning,"
2
which you've related to content.
3
now just general processing, delivering, you know,
4
rendering in a way that's usable to the recipient.
5
7
A
14:00:32
As long as that process was separate from
the content, no, if it was an automatic process.
8
9
Let's distinguish
Do you have any objection to that?
6
14:00:16
Q
So it depends on whether it's an automatic
process?
10
A
It depends on whether the process is
11
separate from -- it depends on whether the
12
content -- strike that.
13
14:00:40
in my head.
14
Let me think this through
To a certain extent, yes.
It depends on
15
whether it's automatic.
16
the content rather than just an automatic function
17
of the software, I think those are two distinct
18
situations.
19
Q
If it requires access to
14:00:55
What if the automatic function of the
20
software necessarily involves -- it's not a person
21
at a computer reading the content but it necessarily
22
involves processing of the content.
23
render the URL preview.
24
that?
25
A
14:01:05
For example, to
Do you have an objection to
As I said earlier, as long as it's an
14:01:26
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automatic function of the software, I see that as
2
distinct from the scanning that we're discussing.
3
Q
14:01:29
Did you at any point contact Facebook
4
before filing this lawsuit to see if you could
5
resolve the matter without litigation?
6
A
No.
7
Q
Why not?
8
A
It never crossed my mind.
9
Q
14:01:49
Have you ever contacted Facebook to
10
discuss any of its practices?
14:01:59
11
A
No.
12
Q
You've never written to the help center,
13
called a phone number, anything like that?
14
A
No.
15
Q
Going back to the Blue Hog website and
16
Facebook page, have you ever used the Domain
17
Insights service provided by Facebook to review the
18
14:02:11
activity on the Blue Hog Facebook page?
19
20
21
22
23
A
If that -- I don't know that I'm sure
specifically what you're talking about.
Q
14:02:36
Have you ever heard of the Domain Insights
service?
A
Not phrased that way.
I know there are
24
some analytic tools available on one of the tabs of
25
Blue Hog Report's Facebook page.
14:02:48
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for its own benefit."
2
14:23:28
What do you mean when you allege here
3
that, "Facebook treated the content of plaintiffs'
4
private messages as an endorsement of the website"?
5
A
Facebook used the mere fact that -- for
6
example, I sent a message that had a URL.
7
generated "Likes" from that, and regardless of
8
whether either I or the recipient had any intention
9
14:23:41
They then
of liking the page, did like the page, liked it but
10
chose not to -- they used that message to create the
11
impression that two additional people had liked that
12
page regardless of whether either of those people
13
had that intent.
14
Q
14:24:00
Is it your understanding that the
15
anonymous "Like" count number merely went up, or is
16
it your contention or your allegation that your name
17
was associated with the increased "Like" count on
18
the website?
19
A
14:24:15
I can't say for sure how Facebook stored
20
it -- I don't -- how Facebook treated that
21
information.
22
Q
14:24:33
Did you ever see a situation in which you
23
shared a URL through a message, the "Like" count was
24
increased, and that was somehow attributed to you,
25
you specifically?
14:24:52
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2
3
4
A
Me specifically, no, I cannot say that I
14:24:53
saw that.
Q
Mr. Campbell, have you been harmed by the
conduct that you're challenging in this action?
5
A
Yes.
14:25:06
6
Q
How so?
7
A
My privacy was breached, and my speech was
8
corrupted in that Facebook -- Facebook created
9
"Likes" for a page irrespective of whether that was
10
11
12
13
something that I would like.
Q
14:25:26
You said your speech was corrupted.
What
do you mean, your speech?
A
That's what I just explained.
Just as I
14
have a right to choose to go like a page, I also
15
have the right to not like the page, even if it's
16
something that I love.
17
Facebook went ahead and created a "Like" as if I had
18
liked it based on the mere fact that I discussed it
19
with someone.
20
Q
21
22
14:25:41
And by doing it this way,
When you say "in this way," you're talking
14:25:58
about the sharing of URLs through messages?
A
Let me reread my answer.
23
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
24
You can answer.
25
THE WITNESS:
By doing it -- yes.
14:26:12
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Q
Got it.
Okay.
So you don't have an issue
2
with the fact that there is the ability to access,
3
14:27:22
it's the actual fact of accessing the messages?
4
A
Yeah, I think that's a fair statement.
5
Q
Have you suffered any monetary harm as a
6
result of the conduct you're challenging in this
7
14:27:36
case?
8
MR. CARNEY:
9
THE WITNESS:
10
Object to form.
Not that I'm aware of.
BY MR. CHORBA:
11
Q
14:27:47
Have you lost any money as far as you
12
understand to Facebook as a result of the conduct
13
you're challenging in this case?
14
A
Not that I'm aware of.
15
Q
And other than having your -- you
16
referenced earlier having your privacy breached --
17
14:27:59
have you suffered any other type of harm?
18
MR. CARNEY:
19
THE WITNESS:
20
The corruption of speech as
well.
21
Object to form.
BY MR. CHORBA:
22
23
24
25
14:28:14
Q
And you distinguish that from having your
privacy breached?
A
It came about as a result of the breach of
privacy, but it is a separate thing.
14:28:23
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explained that you've observed Facebook generating a
2
URL preview in a message.
3
14:34:31
Do you consider that -- using the phrase
4
"interception," which has, I'm sure as you know,
5
legal significance in this case given the
6
allegations and claims, do you consider that
7
rendering of a preview to be an interception?
8
9
10
11
12
A
14:34:40
No, because the message hasn't been sent
at that point.
Q
Do you consider that rendering of a URL
14:34:51
preview to be a scanning of the message?
A
No.
I always considered it to be just an
13
automatic function of the software that I can
14
override by clicking "Remove preview."
15
Q
So when you use the phrase
16
"interception," and you're using that in the context
17
14:35:10
of the URL, what specifically do you mean?
18
A
I'm referring to the accessing of the
19
content of my message at some point after it has
20
been -- after I've made the affirmative step to hit
21
"Send."
22
14:35:27
And the distinction I'm drawing is that
23
the preview and everything is happening before I hit
24
"Send."
25
a URL in, if I haven't hit "Send," I see that as a
So whatever I type up there, even if I put
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Q
And by "doing that," do you mean just
2
intercepting generally or incrementing the "Like"
3
14:37:57
count through URLs shared over private message?
4
A
Both.
5
Q
Have you done anything to verify whether
6
or not Facebook is continuing to engage in the
7
14:38:13
conduct that you challenge in the complaint?
8
MR. CARNEY:
9
THE WITNESS:
10
Object to form.
No.
I assume that -- no.
BY MR. CHORBA:
11
Q
14:38:37
Mr. Campbell, do you have any information
12
or any basis of any kind that Facebook has targeted
13
an ad to you based on something that you put in a
14
message on Facebook?
15
A
That Facebook itself has targeted an ad to
17
Q
Yes.
18
A
Online ads or --
19
Q
Any type of advertising.
20
A
As I testified earlier, I don't see ads on
16
14:38:51
me?
21
pretty much any website.
22
14:39:01
that.
23
Q
So, no, I haven't seen
You mentioned that some websites, they
24
sometimes sneak through.
In those instances -- I'm
25
trying to figure out if you have any basis for
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Facebook.
2
seeing any in the last few years with the Adblock
3
software, but also I can't recall -- I cannot tell
4
you specifically that there was this ad that was
5
targeted at me.
6
7
Q
14:40:19
14:40:31
So you may have -- if I can just make sure
I'm following you.
8
9
I can't recall one -- I can't recall
You may have seen an ad here or there on
Facebook, but you can't link it to anything that
10
would be targeting you based on content of your
11
messages?
12
A
Correct.
13
Q
Mr. Campbell, do you know anybody named
15
A
No.
16
Q
Have you ever heard that name before?
17
A
No.
18
Q
14:40:40
Do you know whether or not you can send
14
19
20
21
22
23
14:40:56
Facebook messages to non-Facebook users?
A
I don't know.
I assumed you could not,
14:41:10
but I don't know that.
Q
Did you ever send any Facebook messages to
non-Facebook addresses?
24
A
I don't know how I would have done that.
25
Q
As far as you know, did anyone ever send
14:41:25
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181 messages, is it fair to say the majority of them
2
had a URL preview?
3
4
5
6
A
I can't say for sure one way or the other
on that.
Q
Do you remember -- how would you check
MR. CARNEY:
8
THE WITNESS:
10
11
14:57:04
that, or could you check that?
7
9
14:56:51
how I would.
Object to form.
I don't know -- I don't know
I don't know that I could.
BY MR. CHORBA:
Q
14:57:16
At any point in time do you remember
12
typing in a URL, a preview was generated, and then
13
clicking on the X to X out of the preview?
14
A
Yes.
15
Q
You've done that before?
16
A
Yes.
17
Q
Would you say you've done that, you know,
18
more than half the time, less than half the time?
19
A
I can't say for sure.
20
Q
Were there specific circumstances where
21
22
14:57:28
I don't know.
14:57:42
you would click X on the preview?
A
Nothing specific.
I think sometimes just
23
the way the thumbnail rendered or something didn't
24
look right with the preview, so just get rid of it
25
because that was an option.
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A
Yes.
2
Q
-- little box?
3
4
14:59:27
And that would be the box to X out if you
did not want the URL preview?
5
A
Yes.
14:59:33
6
Q
Based on your use of Facebook, would the
7
URL still transmit in the message if you clicked on
8
the X?
9
A
Yes.
10
Q
It just wouldn't have the URL preview like
12
A
Correct.
13
Q
I believe you said this.
11
14:59:40
this?
You can't
14
estimate approximately how often the URL preview
15
would be generated during times you sent messages?
16
A
Right.
17
Q
14:59:52
And would looking -- I think you said
18
earlier you don't know how you would even determine
19
the answer to that question.
20
Would going through Exhibit 8 or Exhibit 1
21
to Exhibit 5 in any way refresh your recollection as
22
to whether or not you X'd out of the preview?
23
A
No.
24
Q
15:00:10
During the time you've used Facebook in
25
any capacity, have you used different browsers?
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A
Yes.
15:00:43
2
Q
Which ones?
3
A
Primarily Google Chrome.
I guess whatever
4
the -- if we want to qualify the Facebook app as a
5
browser on a Samsung phone.
15:01:03
6
Q
Okay.
7
A
And then I probably accidentally used
8
Safari once or twice.
9
Q
Not a fan?
10
A
No.
11
Q
And that would be -- I think you mentioned
12
15:01:16
earlier you have a MacBook Pro?
13
A
Yes.
14
Q
Have you ever used Internet Explorer?
15
A
No.
16
Q
You have very strong views there, but I
15:01:25
17
will not probe them as Microsoft is a very good
18
client of the firm.
19
Do you happen to know, were there specific
20
periods you'd use one browser as opposed to the
21
other?
22
A
15:01:39
It's been almost exclusively Chrome for
23
the last few years for sure.
Prior to that, I guess
24
I would have used Firefox at some point to assess
25
Facebook prior to switching over to Chrome.
15:01:56
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2
Q
And can you pinpoint that on a -- with a
15:01:59
specific date?
3
A
No.
4
Q
And did your different browsers have
5
JavaScript enabled?
15:02:10
6
A
For the most part, yeah.
7
Q
But it's possible that one or more
8
browsers or at one or more points in time it may not
9
have been installed?
10
A
The JavaScript, yes, especially using the
11
Chrome browser on my cell phone.
12
15:02:29
There was a period
where Java didn't load at all on Chrome.
13
Q
But that would be just on your smartphone?
14
A
In that example, yes.
15
Q
Can you think of other examples where
16
you're pretty certain you would not have had
17
15:02:49
JavaScript enabled?
18
A
At one point I used a Chrome extension
19
that required you to affirmatively enable JavaScript
20
for each specific page so there could have been
21
periods in there where I just didn't have it enabled
22
for Facebook.
23
Q
24
25
15:03:00
So there were certain sites where you
wouldn't have it enabled, JavaScript, that is?
A
Right.
Once you've installed the
15:03:16
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extension, then you had to affirmatively re-enable
2
it for each site as you went there.
3
4
Q
Have you ever affirmatively disabled it
for any particular sites, yes or no?
5
6
15:03:17
A
Other than that example with the
15:03:29
extension, no.
7
Q
Do you know how many of the URLs reflected
8
in either of the exhibits we're looking at, again,
9
Exhibit 1 to Exhibit 5 or Exhibit 8, do you know if
10
any of those URLs contained a Facebook "Like" button
11
social plug-in?
12
A
15:03:44
I can't say for certain one way or the
13
other.
14
URL, any of them that were sent after the "Like"
15
button was installed there would have had one.
16
The ones that included a Blue Hog Report
Q
I'm sorry, Mr. Campbell.
Remind me.
17
know you testified earlier.
18
15:04:03
I
when that "Like" button was installed.
19
A
I just don't remember
Sometime in 2013 or possibly early 2014.
20
I want to say it was 2013 but I can't pinpoint it
21
more than that.
22
Q
15:04:23
And did adding it to that website have
23
anything to do with this particular lawsuit or is it
24
just coincidental timing?
25
A
To the extent there's overlap, it would be
15:04:34
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coincidental.
2
Q
15:04:36
Got it.
3
And for any of the other sites other than
4
Blue Hog, with which you're obviously familiar, and
5
perhaps the Pinnacle Law Firm website, by going
6
through this list, will we be able to tell whether
7
at the time the message was sent there was a
8
Facebook "Like" button on that website?
9
10
11
12
A
15:04:44
Not to a degree of certainty more than
just sort of best guess.
Q
15:05:02
So some of the websites may have had the
"Like" button while others may not; is that right?
13
A
Yes.
14
Q
And do you know whether your -- any time
15
you shared a URL in a Facebook message, whether that
16
share incremented the "Like" count on a website?
17
We'll assume it had the "Like" social plug-in.
18
me pause there.
19
15:05:21
Let
We'll come back to this.
You understand that if the website to
20
which the URL directed didn't have a "Like" counter,
21
that the transmission of that URL through a message
22
didn't increment a "Like" count because the "Like"
23
count didn't exist.
24
A
That seems reasonable.
25
Q
You don't have any basis for contending
15:05:38
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otherwise?
15:05:55
2
A
No.
3
Q
And do you know whether your sharing of
4
any particular URL in a Facebook message incremented
5
the "Like" count on any particular web page?
6
A
15:06:03
No, because that's not something I was
7
looking for at the time.
8
practice.
9
Q
I was unaware of the
But sitting here today and going back and
10
looking at either the chart or Exhibit 8, are you
11
able to tell whether or not any URL shared through a
12
private message to or from you incremented the
13
"Like" count for that particular page?
14
A
Going through these lists, no.
15
Q
Do you have any other way of determining
A
No.
15:06:15
16
that?
17
18
15:06:32
I don't know that it would be
possible to go back and find out.
19
Q
So let's look again at the production
20
marked Exhibit 8.
21
there.
22
23
I think it's under your left arm
15:06:50
And again, you can keep the chart, if you
would, because I think we may refer back.
24
Let's first look at -- since you have that
25
in front of you, I'll tell you it's line 27 of that,
15:07:04
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top of page 3.
2
for you, Mr. Campbell.
3
And then I'll try to match this up
15:07:07
If you go to the page marked
4
CAMPBELL000005, there's a message.
5
the top there, second one, from
6
you and
7
It's kind of at
to
15:07:27
Who is
8
A
A friend.
9
Q
How long have you known him?
10
A
Four or five years.
11
Q
And just a friend socially, not a work
12
15:07:50
colleague or client or anything like that?
13
A
Correct.
14
Q
And we talked about
15
earlier.
And he's the person who works at
16
University of Arkansas Law School?
17
A
Arkansas, Little Rock.
18
Q
Little Rock.
19
15:08:04
Yes.
Thank you.
And he works as a law librarian?
20
A
Yes.
21
Q
Do you know -- this was a message again
22
23
24
25
from
15:08:17
to you.
Do you know what understanding
had about whether or not this message
that he sent was scanned or intercepted by Facebook?
15:08:31
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A
I can't speak to his understanding.
2
Q
And there are four different URLs there,
3
if you look at the next column or if you look at the
4
document.
5
the URLs are retained.
15:08:37
6
7
Again, it's heavily redacted, but I think
15:08:48
Do you know if any of these URLs had any
URL previews in this particular message?
8
A
I have no idea.
9
Q
And if you had a copy of this message
10
dated May 27th, 2011, in your Facebook messages
11
folder, would you be able to bring it up and see
12
whether there were URL previews?
13
14
15
16
A
Possibly.
15:09:08
That's not something I've ever
looked to see if I could see after the fact.
Q
And as far as you know, do you still have
15:09:22
a copy of this message?
17
A
I assume so.
18
Q
Do you know what kind of browser
19
20
was using, if any, when he sent this
message to you and
?
21
A
No idea.
22
Q
15:09:34
Do you remember what the subject matter of
23
24
25
this discussion was generally?
A
Yes.
Generally it was related to the
attempt by the Arkansas Republican Party to get me
15:09:45
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A
I have no idea if he did or not.
15:13:04
2
Q
Looking at the message, again, line 156,
3
that
sent to you, do you know what
4
understanding
5
his message was being scanned or intercepted by
6
Facebook?
had about whether or not
7
A
I can't speak to his understanding.
8
Q
15:13:17
I'm going to go back a little bit to
9
page 4 of the document production, and it's line 21
10
of the chart.
11
to first.
12
13
MR. CARNEY:
daydreaming.
14
15
18
19
22
I was
Line 21 of the chart, page 4
of the document production.
MR. CARNEY:
Gotcha.
15:13:50
Thank you.
BY MR. CHORBA:
Q
This is a message, July 17, at 7:18 p.m.
It's a message, Mr. Campbell, from you to
20
21
Chris, I'm sorry.
15:13:33
Where are we headed?
MR. CHORBA:
16
17
Whichever is easier for you to flip
Who is
A
15:14:06
He's a friend and former reporter for a
small-town newspaper.
23
Q
Which newspaper?
24
A
Fort Smith, The City Wire.
25
It's an
online-only publication.
15:14:23
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2
3
4
A
I'm a friend of his on Facebook.
I don't
15:15:32
know if that's what allowed me to send it or not.
Q
Did
ever send you messages on
Facebook?
5
A
I believe he did from time to time.
6
Q
Do you know what understanding
7
had about whether or not any of the messages shared
8
on Facebook were being scanned or intercepted by
9
15:15:43
Facebook?
10
A
I don't know what his understanding was.
11
Q
Let's go to page 7 of the production there
12
in front of you, and it's line 45.
13
15:15:53
message, sir, from you to I believe
14
This is a
And it's a post to the Blue Hog
15
Report.
16
A
Yes.
17
Q
And this was less than a year ago,
18
15:16:16
August 2014.
19
20
knew about your lawsuit at
that time; is that fair to say?
21
A
Yes.
22
Q
15:16:29
And did she understand Facebook practices
23
at the time you shared this message with her?
24
MR. CARNEY:
25
THE WITNESS:
Object to form.
I can't speak to what her
15:16:48
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A
Yes.
2
Q
Have you ever spoken with Dr. Kaku?
3
A
No.
4
Q
But you know who he is?
5
A
From television.
6
Q
From what -- like what context?
7
A
Does he
He had a show on Discovery or one of those
channels not too long ago.
10
11
15:25:07
have a TV show?
8
9
15:24:57
Q
Got it.
He's not based in Arkansas or
anything, is he?
12
A
13
No.
MR. CHORBA:
14
good spot.
15
Okay.
I think we're at a
break.
THE VIDEO OPERATOR:
Going off the record,
the time is 3:25.
18
19
Why don't we take a quick five-minute
15:25:26
16
17
15:25:20
(Exhibit 17 and Exhibit 18 were marked for
identification and are attached hereto.)
20
(Recess, 3:25 p.m. - 3:37 p.m.)
21
THE VIDEO OPERATOR:
22
The time is 3:37.
23
15:25:31
Back on the record.
BY MR. CHORBA:
24
25
Q
Please continue.
Welcome back, Mr. Campbell.
You have the chart in front of you still
15:37:08
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that's Exhibit 1 of Exhibit 5.
2
page 102, and specifically line 54 (sic).
3
A
Q
Page 102, line 754.
15:37:09
Line 754?
4
If you could turn to
That's a message
5
dated February 4th, 2011, and it has a website
6
Smiley & West.
7
15:37:35
Do you recognize that site?
8
A
No.
9
Q
I'm going to hand you a document we've
10
marked -- the reporter has premarked as Exhibit 17.
11
15:37:48
I'll represent to you that we went to
12
smileyandwest.com.
13
Google URLs noted, and those are the three web
14
pages.
15
And the two short abbreviated
Have you ever seen those web pages before?
16
A
No.
17
Q
Do you know who Smiley and West are?
18
A
Yes.
19
Q
Who are they?
20
A
Tavis Smiley and Cornel West.
21
Q
Do they have a radio program?
22
A
15:38:06
I don't believe they do anymore, but they
23
15:38:20
did at one point.
24
Q
Have you ever listened to it?
25
A
A few times.
15:38:32
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Q
If you look at the first page there in
2
Exhibit 17, I'll represent to you there's, as far as
3
we can tell, no Facebook "Like" button, at least
4
currently.
15:38:35
5
We printed these out recently.
Then if you turn to the second page, and
6
this is the second link, that shortened Google link
7
referenced in line 754, you'll see there's a "Share"
8
button beneath the "Subscribe to podcast" statement
9
15:38:52
there with a little Facebook icon.
10
And then if you look at the last page,
11
which appears to be a printout from Google Maps,
12
Smiley and West station, there's a Facebook "Like"
13
button there, or Facebook icon.
14
15:39:17
Excuse me.
Do you recognize any of these sites?
15
A
No.
15:39:33
16
Q
Do you remember receiving this message?
17
A
No.
18
Q
Do you know who
19
A
No.
20
Q
Is it possible you received this message
is?
21
at the time and knew what it was about and have just
22
15:39:52
forgotten in the last four years?
23
A
I suppose that's possible.
24
Q
And the number that's reflected there,
25
1158728615, is that number in any way associated
15:40:19
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2
3
practices?
Q
15:50:18
Let's focus on the practices that are
challenged in this case.
4
A
No.
5
Q
But you may have discussed other practices
6
7
15:50:24
with him?
A
I wasn't -- I was trying to clarify
8
whether by "practices" you meant what size pictures
9
needed to be or how the posting of -- how that
10
worked.
11
Q
12
15:50:34
Other than that, were there any other
practices you discussed with him?
13
A
No.
14
Q
Does
15
A
I can't say for sure.
16
17
18
know about this lawsuit?
I haven't told him
15:50:44
about the lawsuit.
Q
Have you had any discussions with him
about the lawsuit?
19
A
No.
20
Q
And have you ever accessed any other
21
15:51:14
developer guidance on Facebook's website?
22
A
Not that I know of.
23
Q
Who is
24
A
A reporter for the Arkansas Democrat
25
Gazette.
15:51:40
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Q
Have you sent Facebook messages to
3
A
Yes.
4
Q
Has he sent messages to you?
5
A
I believe so.
6
Q
Do you know where
7
A
In the Little Rock area.
8
Q
Do you know his specific address?
9
A
No.
10
Q
Do you know how we would reach him?
11
A
Other than Facebook or email, no.
12
Q
Do you know if he's aware of the lawsuit,
13
15:51:45
this lawsuit?
2
14
MR. CARNEY:
15
15:51:50
THE WITNESS:
16
or not.
17
lives?
15:51:58
Object to form.
I don't know if he's aware
15:52:13
BY MR. CHORBA:
18
19
Q
I haven't spoken about it with him.
Did you ever send
any messages
containing URLs?
20
A
I believe so.
21
Q
Did he ever send you messages containing
23
A
I can't recall off the top of my head.
24
Q
Do you know if
22
25
15:52:24
URLs?
ever consented to
the interception or scanning of messages on
15:52:37
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Facebook?
15:52:41
2
MR. CARNEY:
3
THE WITNESS:
4
I can't speak to whether he
consented or not.
5
Object to form.
BY MR. CHORBA:
6
Q
15:52:49
Do you know if
ever visited the
7
Facebook developer page that explained that URL
8
attachments to messages were included in the
9
external website "Like" count?
10
MR. CARNEY:
11
Object to form.
THE WITNESS:
15:53:06
I'm not familiar enough with
12
his web-using habits to know.
13
BY MR. CHORBA:
14
Q
Do you know if
ever saw articles
15
or press coverage regarding the fact that Facebook
16
was, in your words, scanning messages?
17
A
18
either.
19
Q
15:53:15
I can't speak to his reading habits,
Do you know whether or not, if
20
did send a message containing a URL preview, or URL,
21
whether he saw a URL preview before sending the
22
message?
23
A
I don't know.
24
Q
Who is
25
A
A friend of mine.
15:53:30
15:53:44
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2
A
That's
15:54:49
why I said I might have mentioned it in passing.
3
4
I don't recall anything specific.
Q
And why would you have mentioned it if you
A
Just when we were talking about current
did?
5
6
caseloads, litigation, it might have come up that
7
15:54:55
way.
8
9
Q
Did
ever send you any
messages?
10
A
I believe so.
11
Q
Did he send you messages that contained
13
A
I think so.
14
Q
And did you send messages to
12
15:55:12
URLs?
15
15:55:18
16
A
Yes.
17
Q
Including messages with URLs?
18
A
Most likely.
19
Q
Do you know if
consented to
20
the scanning or interceptions that you're alleging
21
in this case?
22
A
23
24
25
I don't know.
15:55:30
I don't know how anyone
could have consented to an unknown practice.
Q
But I'm asking you, do you know
affirmatively whether or not he consented to it?
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A
No.
15:55:45
2
Q
Do you know if
had viewed
3
any Facebook developer pages, Facebook disclosures,
4
or press coverage regarding the practices challenged
5
in this case?
15:55:59
6
MR. CARNEY:
7
THE WITNESS:
8
9
Object to form.
I don't know.
BY MR. CHORBA:
Q
Do you know if
ever saw a
10
URL preview before he sent a Facebook message
11
containing a URL?
12
A
I don't know.
13
Q
Do you know
14
A
No.
15
Q
How about
16
A
No.
17
Q
18
A
No.
19
Q
We talked about
20
know if
21
15:56:06
containing URLs, correct?
15:56:30
earlier.
-- and you sent
Do you
messages
22
A
I believe so, yes.
23
Q
And he sent you messages containing URLs?
24
A
Yes.
25
Q
We looked at one a moment ago that had the
15:56:45
15:56:54
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Facebook developer guidance.
2
A
Right.
3
Q
Do you know whether
15:56:55
consented to
4
the scanning or interceptions that are at issue in
5
this case?
6
7
A
15:57:03
I don't know.
I don't know that he was
aware of it.
8
Q
You don't know one way or the other?
9
A
Correct.
10
Q
And do you know whether he ever visited
11
any Facebook pages or articles or any other sources
12
15:57:13
that disclose the practices at issue in this case?
13
A
I don't know.
14
Q
Do you know whether
15
ever saw the
URL preview before sending a message with that URL?
16
A
17
Q
15:57:28
I don't know.
you've sent messages to
18
him with URLs and he's sent messages to you with
19
URLs; is that right?
20
A
Yes.
15:57:55
21
Q
Do you know if he consented to the
22
scanning or interceptions that you're challenging in
23
this case?
24
25
A
I don't know because I don't know if he
was aware of it.
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2
Q
You don't know one way or the other
15:58:06
whether he was aware of it?
3
A
No.
4
Q
He could have been, you just don't know?
5
A
It's possible.
6
Q
You don't know one way or the other,
7
though?
8
A
9
10
15:58:12
You said it's possible, but you don't know?
No.
MR. CARNEY:
Object to form.
BY MR. CHORBA:
11
Q
15:58:22
Do you know if
ever visited
12
any websites, saw any news articles that disclosed
13
the practices challenged in this case?
14
A
I can't say for sure.
I'd be shocked if
15
he did.
16
Q
Why do you say that?
17
A
Because he's something of a Luddite and I
15:58:35
18
can't imagine that he would ever willingly read a
19
Facebook privacy policy.
20
21
Q
24
25
15:58:45
sure whether he's read any of this?
22
23
Are you speculating or do you know for
A
Speculating based on what I know about
Q
Informed speculation?
him.
And do you know whether
15:58:53
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December 16, and December 22nd that follow this
2
October 30 exchange, are you able to describe the
3
general subject matter of those communications?
4
5
A
7
They were all related in one way or
another to this lawsuit.
6
Q
16:10:43
16:10:59
And have you reviewed these messages since
providing them to your counsel?
8
A
Not subsequent to providing them, no.
9
Q
And do you know whether or not there's any
10
non-privileged information reflected in these
11
messages?
12
A
I have no reason to believe there is.
13
Q
16:11:11
What are the newspapers that you read
14
regularly, Mr. Campbell?
15
A
The Arkansas Democrat Gazette.
16
16:11:30
beyond that I'll need to ask you to define
17
I suppose
"regularly."
18
Q
That you read more than once a year.
19
A
The Southwest Times Record, the Arkansas
20
Times, New York Times.
21
Q
That's probably it.
16:11:53
And focusing on those four publications,
22
are there any that you read on a daily and/or weekly
23
basis?
24
25
A
The Democrat Gazette and the -- it's daily
or near daily, and the Arkansas Times is a weekly
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2
3
publication.
Q
16:12:22
And do you read these in paper form,
online, or both?
4
A
Both.
5
Q
Do you subscribe to any publications?
6
A
I subscribe to the Democrat Gazette.
7
Q
Any others?
8
A
No.
9
Q
How about magazines?
10
A
Currently, yes.
11
Q
Which ones?
12
A
Sports Illustrated and Time, I guess.
13
16:12:30
Not newspapers, no.
16:12:43
My
wife has a subscription.
14
Q
But do you read Time?
15
A
Occasionally.
16
Q
Have you ever read the Washington Post
17
16:12:58
online or in paper form?
18
A
Ever?
Yes.
19
Q
How about The Los Angeles Times?
20
A
Again, yes, ever.
21
Q
Wall Street Journal?
22
A
Yes.
23
Q
Business Insider?
24
A
No.
25
Q
Chicago Tribune?
16:13:15
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A
Yes.
2
Q
The San Francisco Chronicle?
3
A
Yes.
4
Q
The Philadelphia Inquirer?
5
A
No.
6
Q
New York Post?
7
A
No.
8
Q
New York Daily News?
9
A
I don't believe so.
10
Q
Financial Times?
11
A
I visited their website.
12
Q
Have you ever read any content on the
13
16:13:29
16:13:43
16:13:53
website?
14
A
Possibly.
15
Q
How about a website forbes.com?
16
A
I have visited the website before, yes.
17
Q
Have you ever read any of the content on
18
16:14:05
forbes.com?
19
A
Probably.
20
Q
How about foxnews.com?
21
A
I assume I've wound up there by accident
22
23
24
25
16:14:18
at some point.
Q
Have you ever knowingly read any content
on foxnews.com?
A
Not that I can recall.
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Q
2
Fair enough.
16:14:37
How about CNN?
3
A
Yes.
4
Q
We're moving into perhaps more hospitable
5
territory.
6
16:14:42
Huffington Post?
7
A
Yes.
8
Q
How about Huffington Post tech page?
9
Do
you ever read that?
10
A
No.
11
Q
Seen it?
12
A
Yeah, I believe so.
13
Q
Vice.com?
14
A
Only the one time they had a story about
15
something Blue Hog Report did.
16
17
16:14:49
Q
16:15:00
How about any of Wall Street Journal's
online blogs or publications?
18
A
No.
19
Q
How about the website Mashable?
20
A
I've heard of it.
21
ever read it.
22
Q
Politico?
23
A
Yes.
24
Q
Wired Magazine, either online or in paper
25
I don't know that I've
form?
16:15:15
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A
2
I've read it.
3
Q
Tech Radar?
4
A
No.
5
Q
The Daily Beast?
6
A
I've probably read something there before.
7
Q
MSNBC.com?
8
A
Yes.
9
Q
The Onion?
10
A
Yes.
11
Q
Gizmodo?
12
A
Yes.
13
Q
PC Magazine?
14
A
No.
15
Q
The Next Web?
16
A
No.
17
Q
Did you review any materials from Facebook
18
19
20
21
22
Again, heard of it.
I don't know that
16:15:23
16:15:28
16:15:39
16:15:46
before deciding to register for a Facebook account?
A
Only whatever information is part of the
sign-up process in 2009.
Q
16:16:21
Do you recall anything about any of the
materials you read at the time?
23
A
No.
24
Q
But you would have read them?
25
A
No, I would have glossed over them and
16:16:36
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I, the undersigned, a Certified Shorthand
2
Reporter of the State of California, do hereby
3
certify:
4
That the foregoing proceedings were taken
5
before me at the time and place herein set forth;
6
that any witnesses in the foregoing proceedings,
7
prior to testifying, were administered an oath; that
8
a record of the proceedings was made by me using
9
machine shorthand which was thereafter transcribed
10
under my direction; that the foregoing transcript is
11
a true record of the testimony given.
12
Further, that if the foregoing pertains to
13
the original transcript of a deposition in a Federal
14
Case, before completion of the proceedings, review
15
of the transcript [X] was [ ] was not requested.
16
I further certify I am neither financially
17
interested in the action nor a relative or employee
18
of any attorney or any party to this action.
19
20
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date
subscribed my name.
21
22
Dated: 05/29/2015
23
24
<%signature%>
25
CARLA SOARES
CSR No. 5908
Page 294
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