Avenue CLO Fund, Ltd. et al v. Bank of America, N.A., et al
Filing
79
CERTIFIED REMAND ORDER. MDL No. 2106. Signed by MDL (FLSD) on 1/14/14. (Attachments: # 1 Transmittal from FLSD, # 2 1 09-md-02106 Designation of Record, # 3 1 09-md-02106 Dkt. Sheet - flsd, # 4 09-MD-2106 DE 1, 2, 4-30, # 5 0 9-MD-2106 DE 32-36, # 6 09-MD-2106 DE 37 part 1 of 3, # 7 09-MD-2106 DE 37 part 2 of 3, # 8 09-MD-2106 DE 37 part 3 of 3, # 9 09-MD-2106 DE 38, 39, 41-47, 49, 50, # 10 09-MD-2106 DE 51, # 11 09-MD-2106 DE 52-59, 61-65, 68, 70, 72-76, # (1 2) 09-MD-2106 DE 78-84, 86-91, # 13 09-MD-2106 DE 93, 95-103, 106-108, # 14 09-MD-2106 DE 110-115, # 15 09-MD-2106 DE 116-125, 127-129, 132-134, # 16 09-MD-2106 DE 136-140, 142-158, # 17 09-MD-2106 DE 160-162, 164-167, 170-175, 177-190, # ( 18) 09-MD-2106 DE 191-199, 201-215, # 19 09-MD-2106 DE 217-229, 232-247, # 20 09-MD-2106 DE 248, # 21 09-MD-2106 DE 249 part 1 of 2, # 22 09-MD-2106 DE 249 part 2 of 2, # 23 09-MD-2106 DE 251-253, 262-266, 284-287, 300, 301, 310, 319, 326-3 31, # 24 09-MD-2106 DE 335, 336, 338-344, 346-349, # 25 09-MD-2106 DE 350, # 26 09-MD-2106 DE 351-358, # 27 09-MD-2106 DE 360-366, 368-374, # 28 09-MD-2106 DE 375 part 1 of 3, # 29 09-MD-2106 DE 375 part 2 of 3, # 30 09-MD-2106 DE 375 p art 3 of 3, # 31 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 1, # 32 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 2, # 33 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 3, # 34 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 4, # 35 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 5, # 36 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 6, # 37 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 7, # 38 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 8, # 39 09-MD-2106 DE 376 part 9, # 40 09-MD-2106 DE 377 part 1, # 41 09-MD-2106 DE 377 part 2, # 42 09-MD-2106 DE 378, # 43 09-MD-2106 DE 379, # 44 09-MD-2106 DE 380, # 45 09-MD-2106 DE 381 part 1, # 46 09-MD-2 106 DE 381 part 2, # 47 09-MD-2106 DE 382 part 1, # 48 09-MD-2106 DE 382 part 2, # 49 09-MD-2106 DE 382 part 3, # 50 09-MD-2106 DE 382 part 4, # 51 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 1, # 52 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 2, # 53 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 3, # 54 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 4, # 55 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 5, # 56 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 6, # 57 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 7, # 58 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 8, # 59 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 9, # 60 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 10, # 61 09-MD-2106 DE 383 part 11, # 62 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 1, # 63 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 2, # 64 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 3, # 65 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 4, # 66 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 5, # 67 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 6, # 68 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 7, # ( 69) 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 8, # 70 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 9, # 71 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 10, # 72 09-MD-2106 DE 384 part 11, # 73 09-MD-2106 DE 385 part 1, # 74 09-MD-2106 DE 385 part 2, # 75 09-MD-2106 DE 386 part 1, # 76 09-MD-2106 DE 386 part 2, # 77 09-MD-2106 DE 386 part 3, # 78 09-MD-2106 DE 386 part 4, # 79 09-MD-2106 DE 386 part 5, # 80 09-MD-2106 DE 386 part 6, # 81 09-MD-2106 DE 386 part 7, # 82 09-MD-2106 DE 387 part 1, # 83 09-MD-2106 DE 387 part 2, # 84 09-MD-2106 DE 388, # 85 09-MD-2106 DE 389 part 1, # 86 09-MD-2106 DE 389 part 2, # 87 09-MD-2106 DE 389 part 3, # 88 09-MD-2106 DE 389 part 4, # 89 09-MD-2106 DE 390, 392-394, # 90 1 10-cv-20236 Dkt. Sheet - flsd, # 91 10cv20236 DE #1-27, 29-31, 45, 53, 60-65, 67-70, 73, # 92 1 09-cv-23835 Dkt. Sheet - flsd, # 93 09cv23835 DE 112, 115-126, # 94 09cv23835 DE 130, 134, 135 and 145)(Copies have been distributed pursuant to the NEF - MMM)
<![CDATA[
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 112 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/20/2011 Page 1 of 1
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 115 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/25/2011 Page 1 of 1
ELEVENTH CIRCUIT TRANSCRIPT ORDER FORM
PART I.
TRANSCRIPT ORDER INFORMATION
Appellant to complete and file with the District Court Clerk within x days of the filing of the notice of appeal in all cases, including those in which there
10
was no hearing or for which no transcript is ordered.
14
Short Case Style:
Avenue CLO Fund, Ltd., et al.
vs Bank of America, N.A., et al.,
District Court No.: 09-CV-23835-Gold
CHOOSE ONE:
✔
Date Notice of Appeal Filed: January 19, 2011 Court of Appeals No.: Not Available
(If Available)
No hearing
No transcript is required for appeal purposes
All necessary transcript(s) on file
I AM ORDERING A TRANSCRIPT OF THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS:
Check appropriate box(es) and provide all information requested:
HEARING DATE(S)
✔
JUDGE/MAGISTRATE
COURT REPORTER NAME(S)
May 7, 2010 and January 7, 2011 - Judge Gold - Joseph A. Millikan
Pre-Trial Proceedings
Trial
Sentence
Other
METHOD OF PAYMENT:
✔
I CERTIFY THAT I HAVE CONTACTED THE COURT REPORTER(S) AND HAVE MADE SATISFACTORY ARRANGEMENTS WITH THE
COURT REPORTER(S) FOR PAYING THE COST OF THE TRANSCRIPT.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT. Attached for submission to District Judge/Magistrate is my completed CJA Form 24 requesting authorization for
government payment of transcript. [A transcript of the following proceedings will be provided ONY IF SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED in Item 13 on
CJA Form 24: Voir Dire; Opening and Closing Statements of Prosecution and Defense; Prosecution Rebuttal; Jury Instructions]
Ordering Counsel/Party: Lorenz Pruss/Plaintiffs
Name of Firm: Dimond Kaplan & Rothstein, P.A
Street Address/P.O. Box: 2655 S. Bayshore Drive, Penthouse 2B
City/State/Zip Code: Miami, FL 33133
Phone No.: 305-600-1393
I certify that I have filed the original (Yellow page) with the District Court Clerk, sent the Pink and green pages to the appropriate Court Reporter(s) if
ordering a transcript, and sent a photocopy to the Court of Appeals Clerk and to all parties.
DATE: January 19, 2011
SIGNED: s/
PART II.
Lorenz Pruss
Attorney For: Plaintiffs
COURT REPORTER ACKNOWLEDGMENT
Court Reporter to complete and file Pink page with the District Court Clerk within 10 days of receipt. The Court Reporter shall send a photocopy to the
Court of Appeals Clerk and to all parties, and retain the Green page to provide notification when transcript filed.
Date Transcript Order received: 01.25.11
Satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript were completed on:
x Satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript have not been made.
No. of hearing days:
2
Estimated no. of transcript pages:
97
Estimated filing date:
01.25.11
DATE:
SIGNED: s/
Phone No.: 305.523.5588
NOTE: The transcript is due to be filed within 30 days of the date satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript were completed unless the
Court Reporter obtains an extension of time to file the transcript.
PART III.
NOTIFICATION THAT TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN FILED IN DISTRICT COURT
Court Reporter to complete and file Green page with the District Court Clerk on date of filing transcript in District Court. The Court Reporter shall send a
photocopy of the completed Green page to the Court of Appeals Clerk on the same date.
This is to certify that the transcript has been completed and filed with the district court on (date):
Actual No. of Volumes and Hearing Dates:
Date:
Signature of Court Reporter: s/
*U.S. GPO: 1998-734-049-80146
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 116 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 1 of 1
ELEVENTH CIRCUIT TRANSCRIPT ORDER FORM
PART I.
TRANSCRIPT ORDER INFORMATION
Appellant to complete and file with the District Court Clerk within x days of the filing of the notice of appeal in all cases, including those in which there
10
was no hearing or for which no transcript is ordered.
14
Short Case Style:
Avenue CLO Fund, Ltd., et al.
vs Bank of America, N.A., et al.,
District Court No.: 09-CV-23835-Gold
CHOOSE ONE:
✔
Date Notice of Appeal Filed: January 19, 2011 Court of Appeals No.: Not Available
(If Available)
No hearing
No transcript is required for appeal purposes
All necessary transcript(s) on file
I AM ORDERING A TRANSCRIPT OF THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS:
Check appropriate box(es) and provide all information requested:
HEARING DATE(S)
✔
JUDGE/MAGISTRATE
COURT REPORTER NAME(S)
May 7, 2010 and January 7, 2011 - Judge Gold - Joseph A. Millikan
Pre-Trial Proceedings
Trial
Sentence
Other
METHOD OF PAYMENT:
✔
I CERTIFY THAT I HAVE CONTACTED THE COURT REPORTER(S) AND HAVE MADE SATISFACTORY ARRANGEMENTS WITH THE
COURT REPORTER(S) FOR PAYING THE COST OF THE TRANSCRIPT.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT. Attached for submission to District Judge/Magistrate is my completed CJA Form 24 requesting authorization for
government payment of transcript. [A transcript of the following proceedings will be provided ONY IF SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED in Item 13 on
CJA Form 24: Voir Dire; Opening and Closing Statements of Prosecution and Defense; Prosecution Rebuttal; Jury Instructions]
Ordering Counsel/Party: Lorenz Pruss/Plaintiffs
Name of Firm: Dimond Kaplan & Rothstein, P.A
Street Address/P.O. Box: 2655 S. Bayshore Drive, Penthouse 2B
City/State/Zip Code: Miami, FL 33133
Phone No.: 305-600-1393
I certify that I have filed the original (Yellow page) with the District Court Clerk, sent the Pink and green pages to the appropriate Court Reporter(s) if
ordering a transcript, and sent a photocopy to the Court of Appeals Clerk and to all parties.
DATE: January 19, 2011
SIGNED: s/
PART II.
Lorenz Pruss
Attorney For: Plaintiffs
COURT REPORTER ACKNOWLEDGMENT
Court Reporter to complete and file Pink page with the District Court Clerk within 10 days of receipt. The Court Reporter shall send a photocopy to the
Court of Appeals Clerk and to all parties, and retain the Green page to provide notification when transcript filed.
Date Transcript Order received: 01.25.11
x Satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript were completed on: 01.27.11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------x Satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript have not been made.
No. of hearing days:
2
Estimated no. of transcript pages:
97
Estimated filing date:
01.27.11
01.25.11
DATE:
SIGNED: s/
Phone No.: 305.523.5588
NOTE: The transcript is due to be filed within 30 days of the date satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript were completed unless the
Court Reporter obtains an extension of time to file the transcript.
PART III.
NOTIFICATION THAT TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN FILED IN DISTRICT COURT
Court Reporter to complete and file Green page with the District Court Clerk on date of filing transcript in District Court. The Court Reporter shall send a
photocopy of the completed Green page to the Court of Appeals Clerk on the same date.
This is to certify that the transcript has been completed and filed with the district court on (date):
Actual No. of Volumes and Hearing Dates:
Date:
Signature of Court Reporter: s/
*U.S. GPO: 1998-734-049-80146
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 1 of 63
1
1
2
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
MIAMI DIVISION
3
Case 09-2106-MDL-GOLD
4
IN RE:
COURTROOM 11-1
FONTAINEBLEAU LAS VEGAS
CONTRACT LITIGATION
MIAMI, FLORIDA
5
6
MAY 7, 2010
7
8
9
10
(Pages 1 - 63)
__________________________________________________________________
TRANSCRIPT OF ORAL ARGUMENT
BEFORE THE HONORABLE ALAN S. GOLD
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
__________________________________________________________________
11
12
13
APPEARANCES:
14
FOR THE PLAINTIFFS:
15
Avenue CLO IV, Ltd.
J. MICHAEL HENNIGAN, ESQ.
KIRK D. DILLMAN, ESQ.
Hennigan Bennett & Dorman LLP
865 South Figueroa Street, Suite 2900
Los Angeles, CA 90017
213.694.1200
(Fax) 213.694.1234
hennigan@hbdlawyers.com
dillmank@bhdlawyers.com
ACP Master, Ltd.
Aurelius Capital Master
JAMES B. HEATON, III, PH.D.
STEVE NACHTWEY, ESQ.
VINCENT S. J. BUCCOLA, ESQ.
Bartlit Beck Herman Palenchar & Scott, LLP
54 West Hubbard Street
Chicago, IL 60654
312.494.4425
(Fax) 312.494.4440
jb.heaton@bartlit -beck.com
steven.nachtwey@bartlit -beck.com
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
TOTAL ACCESS
NETWORK COURTROOM REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 2 of 63
2
1
FOR THE DEFENDANTS:
2
3
4
Barclays Bank PLC
Deutsche Bank
JP Morgan Chase
Royal Bank of Scotland
5
6
THOMAS C. RICE, ESQ.
STEVEN S. FITZGERALD, ESQ.
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, LLP
425 Lexington Avenue
New York, NY 10017
212.445.3040
(Fax) 212.455.2502
trice@stblaw.com
sfitzgerald@stblaw.com
7
8
Bank of America
Merrill Lynch Capital
DANIEL L. CANTOR, ESQ.
O'Melveny & Myers LLP
Times Square Tower, Times Square
New York, NY 10036
212.408.2483
dcantor@omm.com
HSH Nordbank AG
AARON RUBINSTEIN, ESQ.
Kaye Scholer LLP
425 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10022
9
10
11
12
13
212.836.8000
(Fax) 212.836.8689
arubinstein@kayescholer.com
14
15
16
17
Bank of Scotland PLC
ANTHONY L. PACCIONE, ESQ.
Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP
575 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10022
212.940.8502
(Fax) 212.894.5502
anthony.paccione@kattenlaw.com
Sumitomo Mitsui Banking
ROBERT GERALD FRACASSO, JR., ESQ.
Shutts & Bowen
201 South Biscayne Boulevard, Suite 1500
Miami, FL 33131
305.358.6300
(Fax) 305.381.9982
rfracasso@shutts-law.com
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 3 of 63
3
1
Camulos Master Fund
SAMUEL M. SHELDON, ESQ.
McDermott Will & Emery LLP
201 South Biscayne Boulevard, Suite 2200
Miami, FL 33131
305.358.3500
(Fax) 305.347.6500
ssheldon@mwe.com
REPORTED BY:
JOSEPH A. MILLIKAN, RPR-CM-NSC-FCRR
Official United States Court Reporter
Federally Certified Realtime Reporter
400 North Miami Avenue, Suite 11-1
Miami, FL 33128
305.523.5588
(Fax) 305.523.5589
jamillikan@aol.com
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
TABLE OF CONTENTS
15
Page
16
Reporter's Certificate ...................................... 57
17
18
19
CITATION
20
Page
21
22
Berry Harvester Co. v. Walter A. Wood Mowing & Reaping
Mach. Co., 46 N.E. 952 (N.Y. 1897) ........................... 9
23
24
25
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 4 of 63
Oral Argument
4
15:05:52
1
15:05:56
2
15:06:02
3
15:06:04
4
15:06:05
5
15:06:07
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right.
15:06:10
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speak in the microphone in front of you, please.
15:06:12
8
15:06:14
9
15:06:18
10
THE COURT:
15:06:18
11
MR. HEATON:
15:06:23
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and Vince Buccola on behalf of the ACP Master and Aurelius
15:06:29
13
Capital Master plaintiffs.
15:06:30
14
THE COURT:
15:06:34
15
MR. RICE:
15:06:36
16
and Steve Fitzgerald from Simpson Thacher & Bartlett.
15:06:40
17
here for Barclays, Deutsche Bank, JP Morgan Chase and Royal Bank
15:06:45
18
of Scotland.
15:06:48
19
America and Merrill Lynch who have their own motion and were
15:06:51
20
going to argue part of the joint motion are not here, and I
15:06:55
21
don't know where they are, Your Honor.
15:06:56
22
15:07:01
23
telling me this is set for 3:15.
15:07:02
24
o'clock.
15:07:06
25
THE COURT:
Good afternoon.
On Case 09-2106, may I
have appearances, first on behalf of the plaintiffs?
Good afternoon, Your Honor.
MR. HENNIGAN:
Michael
Hennigan from --
THE COURT:
You need a microphone, sir.
It's all
Just whatever is comfortable, you can stay seated.
Good afternoon, Your Honor.
MR. HENNIGAN:
Just
Michael
Hennigan and Kirk Dillman on behalf of the Avenue plaintiffs.
Thank you.
Your Honor, James Heaton, Steve Nachtwey
All right.
Yes.
Thank you.
Other appearances?
Good afternoon, Your Honor, Tom Rice
We're
Your Honor, I apologize, but counsel for Bank of
THE COURT:
MR. RICE:
You know, I may be early.
Okay.
My office is
I thought it was three
Our understanding was, mine certainly
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 5 of 63
Oral Argument
5
15:07:09
1
was, 3:15, Your Honor.
15:07:10
2
15:07:14
3
upon you, I'll wait until 3:15 and come back.
15:07:17
4
other appearances by phone, so we'll come back and pick this up
15:07:21
5
in just a few minutes.
15:07:24
6
THE COURT:
Then let me do this.
Thank you.
Rather than impose
I think there are
Stay seated, please.
[There was a short recess taken at 3:07 p.m.]
7
AFTER RECESS
15:17:04
8
[Proceedings in this cause resume at 3:17 p.m.]
15:17:05
9
15:17:07
10
15:17:10
11
with appearances.
15:17:12
12
the microphones, please.
15:17:13
13
15:17:14
14
afternoon.
15:17:17
15
plaintiffs.
15:17:18
16
THE COURT:
15:17:20
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MR. HEATON:
15:17:23
18
Steven Nachtwey and Vincent Buccola on behalf of the ACP Master
15:17:29
19
and Aurelius Capital plaintiffs.
15:17:30
20
15:17:33
21
15:17:35
22
15:17:37
23
Fitzgerald from Simpson Thacher & Bartlett for Deutsche Bank, JP
15:17:43
24
Morgan, Royal Bank of Scotland and Barclays.
15:17:49
25
THE COURT SECURITY OFFICER:
THE COURT:
All rise.
Be seated, please.
So let me start again
Everybody can stay seated.
MR. HENNIGAN:
Just speak into
Thank you, Your Honor, and good
It's Michael Hennigan on behalf of the Avenue
I'm here with my partner, Kirk Dillman.
THE COURT:
Thank you, sir.
Your Honor, I'm James Heaton.
Thank you.
With me is
Now, let me start with
appearances and work around the table.
MR. RICE:
Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. CANTOR:
Tom Rice and Steve
Good afternoon, Your Honor.
May 7, 2010
Dan Cantor,
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 6 of 63
Oral Argument
6
15:17:50
1
O'Melveny & Myers, on behalf of Bank of America and Merrill
15:17:53
2
Lynch Capital Corp. and I apologize for holding up the Court
15:17:57
3
this afternoon.
15:18:02
4
15:18:03
5
Rubinstein from Kaye Scholer on behalf of defendant HSH
15:18:04
6
Nordbank.
15:18:05
7
15:18:07
8
15:18:09
9
15:18:12
10
microphone since I have others on the telephone who won't be
15:18:12
11
able to hear you.
15:18:13
12
15:18:18
13
15:18:20
14
15:18:23
15
15:18:26
16
15:18:28
17
15:18:33
18
15:18:34
19
everybody.
15:18:38
20
joint motions to dismiss the term lenders' complaints which is at
15:18:44
21
Docket Entry 36.
15:18:51
22
the various points with a counterpoint.
15:18:55
23
me rather than hear everybody's argument and all the responses.
15:19:00
24
15:19:10
25
MR. RUBINSTEIN:
MR. PACCIONE:
Good afternoon, Your Honor.
Aaron
Anthony Paccione, Your Honor, from
Katten Muchin Rosenman for Bank of Scotland.
THE COURT:
Sorry.
MR. PACCIONE:
You'll need to speak in the
Anthony Paccione, Katten Muchin Rosenman
for Bank of Scotland, Your Honor.
MR. FRACASSO:
Robert Fracasso, Shutts & Bowen, for
Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation.
MR. SHELDON:
Good afternoon.
Samuel Sheldon from
McDermott Will and Emory on behalf of the Camulos Master Fund.
THE COURT:
All right.
Thank you and welcome
I'd like to start, please, with the defendants'
And I'd like, if you don't mind, to go through
It would be helpful to
So let's start, please, with the standing issues, and
I've looked at this in terms of the question of which circuit's
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 7 of 63
Oral Argument
7
15:19:24
1
standing requirements apply and does it make a difference here
15:19:27
2
in terms of ultimately getting to New York law.
15:19:36
3
understanding from looking at both the Eleventh Circuit and the
15:19:42
4
Second Circuit, given the nature of this proceeding, that the
15:19:48
5
issue of standing ultimately is a question of state law and New
15:19:54
6
York law would apply to it.
15:19:56
7
15:20:01
8
there because I imagine it's a procedural versus substantive
15:20:04
9
issue.
15:20:15
10
and the like, and it just seems to me that I have to go through
15:20:19
11
the analysis to get to state law issues rather than federal
15:20:27
12
common law issues on that question.
15:20:30
13
15:20:33
14
Myers.
15:20:35
15
you need to go through the analysis of which circuit because
15:20:38
16
standing may be a bit of a misnomer here.
15:20:42
17
issue of who has a right under the contract to assert a breach
15:20:45
18
of contract clause.
15:20:50
19
provision that provides for New York law without choice of law
15:20:53
20
rules --
15:20:54
21
15:20:58
22
standing, there are different types of standing.
15:21:02
23
argument about Article 3 standing, about whether there's an
15:21:07
24
injury in fact as a result of a legally protected interest under
15:21:14
25
the contract at issue, is that the kind of standing you're
And my
Does anybody disagree with the analysis of how we get
I know you have choice of law in your credit agreements
MR. CANTOR:
Your Honor, Dan Cantor from O'Melveny &
We do arrive at the same place.
THE COURT:
I'm not sure whether
It's really more an
And since the contract has a choice of law
But I wanted to ask you about when you use
May 7, 2010
I think your
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 8 of 63
Oral Argument
8
15:21:17
1
talking about?
15:21:18
2
15:21:21
3
standing in arguably a more colloquial sense of do you have a
15:21:26
4
right of action here under the contract, not an Article 3 is
15:21:31
5
there an injury, is there a case of controversy but, rather,
15:21:38
6
does the contract give you rights to enforce an alleged breach
15:21:43
7
by one of the other contracting parties, a contract to which you
15:21:49
8
are admittedly a party.
15:21:53
9
place but in my mind, Your Honor, it doesn't have a
15:21:57
10
constitutional Article 3 dimension; it's a pure contract issue
15:22:01
11
and it's standing in a legal sense as opposed to a
15:22:05
12
constitutional sense, an Article 3 sense.
15:22:07
13
15:22:11
14
the term lenders have rights sufficiently under the contracts at
15:22:19
15
issue to raise the claims that they're talking about.
15:22:24
16
broadly call it standing.
15:22:29
17
kind of analysis or something else.
15:22:35
18
from your side of the table, you're requesting I approach the
15:22:41
19
analysis.
15:22:41
20
15:22:43
21
contract law, Your Honor, not as an issue of Article 3 standing.
15:22:48
22
This is a multiparty contract with a great many multilateral,
15:22:55
23
bilateral promises, and the issue is whether the promise that
15:23:00
24
the term lenders have chosen to sue on in this case is one that
15:23:04
25
they have a contractual right to enforce.
MR. CANTOR:
THE COURT:
MR. CANTOR:
No, Your Honor.
I think it really is
And so as I said, we end up in the same
Well, it comes to the question of whether
You
I don't know if this is an Article 3
That's why I'm asking how,
I would approach it as an issue of state
May 7, 2010
So, you know, I don't
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 9 of 63
Oral Argument
9
15:23:12
1
see this as an Article 3 issue; I see it as a pure state law
15:23:16
2
contract issue.
15:23:16
3
15:23:20
4
F.3d 964 which suggests otherwise, but tell me:
15:23:29
5
else on that side of the table want to get into this issue and
15:23:34
6
give me something other than opinion but based upon citation?
15:23:41
7
15:23:45
8
How would you characterize the standing issue?
15:23:48
9
ultimately comes down to state law but it just seems to me that
15:23:52
10
15:23:55
11
15:23:58
12
actually just thought of this as having been essentially
15:24:03
13
innocently mislabeled.
15:24:08
14
when they said "standing," what they really meant was the term
15:24:11
15
lenders don't have any contractual right.
15:24:16
16
particular contractual right that they're asserting in this
15:24:20
17
complaint and that that would make it purely a matter of really
15:24:23
18
interpreting the contract.
15:24:25
19
15:24:30
20
you know, their cite to Berry Harvester and the way that we've
15:24:34
21
briefed that.
15:24:39
22
analysis, because we're parties to the contract and because we
15:24:42
23
actually have an injury, we would get over that hurdle almost
15:24:46
24
too easily for that to have been what I think they meant.
15:24:53
25
certainly comfortable, you know, proceeding either way, but I've
THE COURT:
All right.
Okay.
There is citation to a case at 405
Does anybody
What about from the plaintiffs' side here?
I know it
I ought not skip steps as to how I get there.
MR. HEATON:
I understand, Your Honor.
I have always
I think I agree with Mr. Cantor that
They don't have the
That's also consistent with some of the, well, I think,
I think also, just from a typical standing
May 7, 2010
We're
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 10 of 63
Oral Argument
10
15:24:56
1
always understood it as really being about the existence of a
15:24:59
2
right to enforce under the contract.
15:25:04
3
15:25:07
4
question is determined under New York law in any event; is that
15:25:08
5
correct?
15:25:16
6
MR. HEATON:
15:25:17
7
THE COURT:
15:25:21
8
there, as part of the overall deal on this project, an
15:25:31
9
interlender agreement or agreements independent of the credit
15:25:37
10
and disbursement agreements?
15:25:41
11
back and look?
15:25:43
12
15:25:44
13
question with a question, Your Honor, there is a document that
15:25:47
14
I'm aware of that is called an intercreditor agreement, I
15:25:52
15
believe, is what it is called.
15:25:55
16
today, I don't remember precisely what it covers.
15:25:58
17
15:26:00
18
I did not go back and look at it.
15:26:03
19
agreement that covers not just the rights vis-à-vis the lenders
15:26:11
20
to this credit agreement but also as Your Honor knows, there are
15:26:12
21
retail lenders under other credit agreements, but I don't
15:26:14
22
believe that there is -- there also is obviously security
15:26:15
23
agreements, you know, et cetera, but I don't think it's --
15:26:22
24
15:26:26
25
THE COURT:
MR. CANTOR:
MR. RICE:
Okay.
So no one disputes that that
Yes, Your Honor.
Okay.
So let me ask a question here:
Does anybody know?
Did anybody go
I guess my question, not to answer your
I apologize.
Your Honor, if I may.
THE COURT:
Was
Okay.
As I sit here
Again, I will confess
I think though that may be an
I'm talking about matters from
another life that I participated in.
May 7, 2010
In a deal of this
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 11 of 63
Oral Argument
11
15:26:30
1
complexity, in addition to documents like the credit agreement
15:26:33
2
and disbursement agreement, in the course of the relationships
15:26:40
3
between and among the creditors, all the lenders here, was there
15:26:46
4
an interlender or intercreditor agreement that spelled out
15:26:54
5
obligations, promises, duties and the like?
15:26:57
6
MR. CANTOR:
Not that I'm aware of, Your Honor.
15:27:01
7
MR. HEATON:
Your Honor, I agree with Mr. Rice.
15:27:03
8
think there is an interlender agreement among all of the
15:27:08
9
lenders, not just among the lenders here.
15:27:11
10
15:27:13
11
15:27:17
12
a serious look at whatever you're referring to, since I don't
15:27:21
13
have it, to see if it in any way pertains to the kinds of
15:27:30
14
responsibilities and obligations that are being argued in this
15:27:34
15
case.
15:27:34
16
15:27:36
17
will say that the disbursement agreement is so specific and is
15:27:42
18
so extensive in terms of the laying out of the obligations of
15:27:47
19
the various parties to the credit agreement that it would
15:27:51
20
surprise me if there was another agreement that spoke to that
15:27:54
21
issue any further because I'm not sure what's left to say once
15:27:59
22
you get beyond the provisions of the disbursement agreement.
15:28:02
23
But I cannot represent to you, Your Honor, that I've gone back
15:28:05
24
and looked for that.
15:28:06
25
THE COURT:
I
It addresses things
really not at issue here.
THE COURT:
MR. CANTOR:
Well, I'm asking whether anybody has taken
I have not looked for it, Your Honor.
Okay.
But I thought if there was some
May 7, 2010
I
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 12 of 63
Oral Argument
12
15:28:09
1
agreement like that, certainly the plaintiffs would have brought
15:28:12
2
it to my attention as something important to look at in addition
15:28:18
3
to the two agreements that are at issue here.
15:28:22
4
a fair statement if it exists at all?
15:28:25
5
15:28:27
6
there were any agreement that was more specific on this question
15:28:32
7
than what we believe supportable from the case law and the
15:28:37
8
contract, we would have brought it to your attention.
15:28:38
9
15:28:42
10
will continue to assume that there is no other agreement between
15:28:47
11
and among the creditors/lenders that pertain to any of the
15:28:54
12
issues.
15:29:00
13
down to whether the plaintiffs are intended or incidental
15:29:08
14
beneficiaries of the various obligations and promises.
15:29:13
15
this is your first point on that side of the room, why don't you
15:29:17
16
go ahead and address your arguments on it.
15:29:20
17
15:29:22
18
our argument here is that the term lenders cannot sue the
15:29:27
19
revolvers for breach of contract damages in connection with the
15:29:31
20
revolvers' refusal to fund in response to Fontainebleau's
15:29:37
21
notices of borrowing in March 2009 because the revolvers'
15:29:41
22
lending commitment was a promise to Fontainebleau only.
15:29:44
23
It was not a promise to the term lenders, and the term
15:29:47
24
lenders provided no consideration for the revolvers' commitment
15:29:50
25
to lend funds to Fontainebleau.
MR. HEATON:
THE COURT:
Wouldn't that be
Your Honor, it's a fair statement that if
Okay.
So for purposes of our discussion, I
So essentially under New York law, the question comes
MR. CANTOR:
Sure, Your Honor.
So since
As you've alluded to,
The term lenders do not dispute
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 13 of 63
Oral Argument
13
15:29:55
1
that they provided no consideration to the revolvers, and the
15:29:59
2
term lenders don't identify any credit agreement provision
15:30:02
3
giving them the right to enforce the revolvers' lending
15:30:07
4
commitment and, in fact, there is no such provision that either
15:30:09
5
expressly or impliedly would permit the term lenders to sue the
15:30:13
6
revolvers.
15:30:15
7
15:30:19
8
Section 2 of the credit agreement which is titled "Amount and
15:30:28
9
Terms of Commitments," § 2.1 expressly states that each lender
15:30:30
10
has a several, i.e., separate, obligation to make loans to
15:30:36
11
Fontainebleau.
15:30:40
12
provides separate considerations in the form of promises to
15:30:43
13
repay the loans and commitment fees to each of the lenders.
15:30:48
14
15:30:52
15
opposition papers that there are no bilateral promises here is
15:30:57
16
demonstrably false.
15:31:01
17
promises here.
15:31:05
18
are lenders.
15:31:08
19
terms, but each one of them is a separate loan.
15:31:11
20
lending promise and a separate promise to repay.
15:31:15
21
So plaintiffs' argument that they can enforce mutual
15:31:18
22
obligations is meaningless because they're unable to identify
15:31:23
23
any mutual obligations, and it's been the law in New York for
15:31:27
24
over 110 years now that merely because you are a party to a
15:31:32
25
multiparty contract, that does not mean that you have the right
In fact, to the contrary, if you take a look at
And in §§ 2.7.A and 2.8.A, Fontainebleau
So the term lenders' assertion which they made in their
In fact, there are dozens of bilateral
There are as many bilateral promises as there
They may all have identical or near identical
May 7, 2010
It's a separate
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 14 of 63
Oral Argument
14
15:31:36
1
to enforce all of that contract's promises.
And none of the
15:31:40
2
cases that plaintiffs have cited in their opposition brief,
15:31:43
3
which I'm happy to get into if Your Honor would like, requires
15:31:46
4
any different result.
15:31:48
5
15:31:52
6
not dispute that there's no provision that entitles them to
15:31:57
7
enforce the revolvers' commitment and that they provided any
15:32:00
8
consideration for it, under the controlling law in Berry
15:32:03
9
Harvester they do not have any basis to maintain a breach of
15:32:08
10
contract claim against the revolvers for the revolvers' funding
15:32:12
11
commitments.
15:32:14
12
THE COURT:
15:32:16
13
MR. RICE:
15:32:19
14
Rice.
15:32:25
15
they relied on, you know, the revolving commitment of the
15:32:29
16
revolving lenders, and I just would ask Your Honor to take a
15:32:33
17
look at, you know, both the provisions of § 2.1 which talk about
15:32:37
18
what they did rely on in making term loans and delay draw term
15:32:42
19
loans and contrast that with §§ 2.5 and 3.1 of the credit
15:32:47
20
agreement which are provisions where in other contexts the
15:32:53
21
parties to this contract show that they know exactly how to make
15:32:57
22
clear when they're relying on the commitment of other lenders.
15:33:01
23
Those two provisions relate to the letter of credit
15:33:03
24
commitment and the swing line loan commitment where one bank
15:33:06
25
goes out-of-pocket and relies on other banks to basically
So at the end of the day because the term lenders do
Anyone else want to add to that argument?
Your Honor, if I may just very briefly.
Tom
You know, the plaintiffs argue nonetheless that somehow
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 15 of 63
Oral Argument
15
15:33:10
1
reimburse it when they go out-of-pocket.
15:33:12
2
contexts, the parties make absolutely clear that one bank's
15:33:16
3
commitment is in reliance on another.
15:33:24
4
from any of the provisions relating to initial term loans or
15:33:27
5
delay draw terms loans.
15:33:29
6
15:33:30
7
one final point.
15:33:33
8
papers that somehow the credit agreement reflects an agreement
15:33:36
9
among the lenders to share the risks of the lending transaction
15:33:41
10
in a ratable fashion.
15:33:46
11
you recognized last summer in dealing with the Fontainebleau
15:33:49
12
motion, which is the sequential structure of this credit
15:33:52
13
facility, whereby you weren't going to be able to get to the
15:33:56
14
entire revolver until after the term and delay draw loans had
15:34:00
15
been exhausted.
15:34:03
16
going to bear the risk that for some reason or another the
15:34:07
17
revolvers weren't going to end up funding their loans.
15:34:11
18
got no basis for a breach of contract claim here, Your Honor.
15:34:14
19
15:34:17
20
sure that I've covered all of your arguments that you've raised
15:34:21
21
on this issue and you didn't have anything else you wanted to
15:34:30
22
bring to my attention that has not been briefed.
15:34:30
23
opportunity.
15:34:31
24
15:34:35
25
MR. CANTOR:
That is glaringly absent
And, Your Honor, if I may, I just to add
There was a suggestion in the term lenders'
I think, Your Honor, that ignores what
That shows that the term lenders were always
THE COURT:
MR. HEATON:
Your Honor.
In each of those
Then let me shift over.
Yeah.
They've
I want to make
Now's your
I do want to emphasize something,
We could've briefed this better and it gets to this
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 16 of 63
Oral Argument
16
15:34:38
1
point that merely because you are a party to a joint contract
15:34:40
2
doesn't mean you can enforce every promise.
15:34:42
3
uncontroversial statement.
15:34:45
4
15:34:49
5
words of severance, then you cannot enforce a right given you
15:34:54
6
under that contract.
15:34:57
7
I'd appreciate the opportunity to do here now, Your Honor, is to
15:35:00
8
point Your Honor to -- defendants cite 22 New York Jurisprudence
15:35:06
9
2d Contracts, Section 260, which says:
15:35:11
10
joinder are not necessary to create a joint obligation or
15:35:15
11
right."
15:35:16
12
15:35:18
13
15:35:20
14
15:35:25
15
point that we don't need -- the contract itself shows a joint
15:35:31
16
obligation.
15:35:36
17
the premise that a joint contract must have express words
15:35:43
18
including people in the set of people who can enforce rights is
15:35:49
19
false; and the defendants' citation to this 22 New York
15:35:56
20
Jurisprudence 2d Contracts, it's also in the Restatement
15:35:59
21
(Second) of Contracts 297.
15:36:00
22
15:36:03
23
that Berry Harvester is a contract that actually does exclude
15:36:07
24
people from enforcing rights, and it's important because the
15:36:11
25
defendants hammer on this idea that the obligation to lend is
That's an
The necessary rest of that is if there are express
THE COURT:
And what I wish we would've done and what
"Words of express
Is this something you briefed or is this
something you just came up with?
MR. HEATON:
It's in the -- what we briefed was the
What I think is not clear in there enough is that
So what happens in Berry Harvester, for example, is
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 17 of 63
Oral Argument
17
15:36:18
1
severed, it's not joint among lenders; but there is no
15:36:25
2
equivalent severing of the right to enforce that obligation, and
15:36:28
3
that is what would have to be in this joint contract under New
15:36:31
4
York law.
15:36:32
5
They focus on from whom the duty is owed.
15:36:36
6
point to anything severing to whom performance is owed, and
15:36:42
7
that's why they haven't shown that this joint contract under New
15:36:49
8
York law doesn't allow the term lenders to enforce.
15:36:54
9
15:36:58
10
if they are separate contracts is commercially absurd.
15:37:05
11
lender would enter into these agreements if theirs was the only
15:37:11
12
enforceable agreement, that all the other term lenders could
15:37:15
13
lend if they wanted to.
15:37:17
14
15:37:19
15
your agreement for you at this late stage?
15:37:25
16
crucial issues -- and I'm not saying that they weren't -- why
15:37:30
17
weren't they in the document or in some other intercredit or
15:37:37
18
interlender agreement spelling it out?
15:37:39
19
15:37:41
20
crystal clear on this point, that words of express joinder
15:37:46
21
aren't necessary in a joint contract.
15:37:48
22
15:37:53
23
enforceable by someone in a joint contract, or if you want a
15:37:57
24
right, a duty, to be severed is you have to expressly sever it.
15:38:02
25
This contract is no doubt written in reliance on that background
They don't
The other point is that to look at these contracts as
THE COURT:
MR. HEATON:
No term
Are you, in effect, asking me to rewrite
If these were
Your Honor, because New York law is
What you have to do if you want a right not to be
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 18 of 63
Oral Argument
18
15:38:09
1
law.
It is a false premise that we don't have a right to
15:38:14
2
enforce unless it is specifically there.
15:38:17
3
around.
15:38:23
4
severed.
15:38:23
5
THE COURT:
15:38:24
6
MR. CANTOR:
15:38:27
7
what words it is that they're looking for beyond a description
15:38:31
8
of the lending obligation that's several and a description of
15:38:35
9
the repayment obligation as being several.
15:38:40
10
15:38:44
11
In Berry Harvester what the Court looked at in deciding that
15:38:48
12
there were separate promises was the fact that one portion of
15:38:50
13
the contract was introduced by the words "It is mutually agreed
15:38:55
14
by and between two of the parties."
15:38:58
15
15:39:00
16
I assume that plaintiffs are not arguing that there is some
15:39:03
17
magic talismanic set of words that need to be uttered here -- it
15:39:08
18
is clear from the face of the contract that there are separate
15:39:12
19
lending agreements that are all bound together in one contract
15:39:16
20
that is designed to be administered jointly but that still
15:39:23
21
reflect separate obligations both on the part of the lenders to
15:39:25
22
lend and on the part of the borrower to repay.
15:39:33
23
15:39:36
24
contract either with respect to their commercially reasonable
15:39:39
25
argument, but presumably what they were expecting when they went
It's the other way
We have a right to enforce unless it is specifically
Response?
Yes, Your Honor.
I think -- I'm not sure
They've mischaracterized the facts in Berry Harvester.
Well, while we don't use the exact identical words -- and
I don't want to venture outside the four corners of the
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 19 of 63
Oral Argument
19
15:39:41
1
into this contract was that they were going to be repaid by the
15:39:44
2
borrower.
15:39:47
3
going to happen vis-à-vis other lenders.
15:39:51
4
been focusing on other lenders but they certainly knew, given
15:39:52
5
the sequential structure of the contract, that there was a risk
15:39:55
6
that for one reason or another that when they funded up front at
15:40:00
7
the closing in the case of the initial term lenders or at some
15:40:03
8
point earlier in the process in the case of the delay draw
15:40:06
9
lenders that the revolving lenders would be relieved of their
15:40:11
10
obligations to fund and would not fund.
15:40:14
11
clearly bore on the face of the contract.
15:40:17
12
THE COURT:
15:40:19
13
MR. HENNIGAN:
15:40:21
14
on behalf of the Avenue plaintiffs.
15:40:26
15
has not been discussed which is the in-balance test that is
15:40:29
16
required before any funding is permitted or required under the
15:40:34
17
agreement.
15:40:35
18
There is required to be a certification that there are
15:40:38
19
sufficient funds left to complete the project at every phase of
15:40:43
20
the project.
15:40:48
21
has sufficient credit accessible to it in order to complete the
15:40:52
22
project and specifically there for the benefit of each lender
15:40:57
23
whose turn it is to lend.
15:41:02
24
think, does knit together all of these obligations, to say that
15:41:06
25
we on our side, the term lenders, were looking to the continued
They probably had no expectations as to what was
They wouldn't have
That's a risk that they
Anything else anybody wants to argue?
If I may, Your Honor.
Michael Hennigan
There is a clause here that
That is there in order to insure that the project
And so that is a clause that, I
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 20 of 63
Oral Argument
20
15:41:11
1
availability of those loans before we were obligated to fund at
15:41:16
2
all.
15:41:17
3
THE COURT:
15:41:18
4
MR. CANTOR:
15:41:21
5
and oranges.
15:41:25
6
right to enforce a promise that was not made to you unless there
15:41:30
7
is something in the contract that makes it clear that you have
15:41:34
8
the right to enforce that promise.
15:41:37
9
15:41:42
10
money to Fontainebleau.
15:41:46
11
contract itself which in any way indicates that if the revolving
15:41:51
12
lenders did not lend to Fontainebleau that the other lenders
15:41:56
13
would have the right to sue Fontainebleau, excuse me, sue the
15:42:01
14
revolvers for damages for their failure to lend money to
15:42:04
15
Fontainebleau.
15:42:10
16
delve into the minutia of this complex contractual funding
15:42:16
17
arrangement in an effort to shore up what should have been a
15:42:19
18
very basic provision in the contract, I think, is exalting form
15:42:27
19
way over substance.
15:42:28
20
15:42:34
21
concern has to do with the issues associated with whether the
15:42:38
22
term lenders state a claim for breach of contract based on the
15:42:44
23
March 2nd and 3rd notices of borrowing and as part of that, we
15:42:49
24
get to the issue of the question of fully drawn and fully funded
15:43:02
25
or the like which I've been through before but as pointed out,
Any response?
Your Honor, that's really comparing apples
The law is clear that you're not going to have the
The promise here was by the revolving lenders to lend
There is nothing on the face of the
That's been the law for over 110 years and to
THE COURT:
All right.
Moving on, the next area of
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
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15:43:09
1
there are matters that needed to be brought to my attention by
15:43:13
2
the term lenders that they did not sufficiently have the
15:43:17
3
opportunity as amicus to address.
15:43:20
4
15:43:23
5
those points of your brief if there's something in addition that
15:43:26
6
you want to bring to my attention based upon all the
15:43:30
7
submissions.
15:43:30
8
15:43:33
9
15:43:36
10
this ground with the term lenders, certainly Mr. Hennigan's
15:43:40
11
clients in the room before.
15:43:43
12
crystal clear, Number 1, that Your Honor has already ruled on
15:43:45
13
this in the Fontainebleau case and even though they try to
15:43:49
14
characterize what they're doing as new, an awful lot of it is
15:43:54
15
rehashing.
15:43:55
16
15:43:58
17
denying Fontainebleau's motion for summary judgment and for its
15:44:03
18
application for an interlocutory appeal, the Court has made
15:44:06
19
clear that it's not looking at the general meaning of the term
15:44:10
20
"drawn" or "fully drawn."
15:44:14
21
of that term within the four corners of this contract and, most
15:44:18
22
importantly, you know, looking at § 2.B.3, the Court properly
15:44:22
23
found that that could only mean "fully funded."
15:44:26
24
15:44:29
25
So let me turn it back to whoever is going to argue
MR. RICE:
Your Honor, this is Tom Rice.
just to be brief -- and I won't reargue this.
I would guess
We've been over
But, you know, it's absolutely
I think Your Honor has already found twice, both on
The Court was looking at the meaning
So all of the references to dictionary definitions or
how it's used in cases, even though we don't think that supports
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
22
15:44:32
1
their claim, that's not new.
I think Your Honor has already
15:44:35
2
rejected that.
15:44:36
3
15:44:44
4
contract where words like "draw" are used, Your Honor has dealt
15:44:47
5
with that already and has disposed of those arguments and I
15:44:49
6
won't go through those.
15:44:51
7
15:44:56
8
address, you know, any questions Your Honor would have about
15:44:58
9
them, but I think we have really, you know, addressed each of
15:45:02
10
those.
15:45:06
11
on an interpretation of the contract is this idea that, you
15:45:09
12
know, in § 2.B.3 rather than saying "delay draw term loans" it
15:45:15
13
says "delay draw term loan," so therefore this clause doesn't
15:45:18
14
mean what Your Honor found it to mean because it's only talking
15:45:22
15
about the loan of each individual lender that they severally
15:45:28
16
make, is frankly, Your Honor, specious.
15:45:32
17
15:45:37
18
know, it clearly says that plural means singular, singular means
15:45:41
19
plural.
15:45:46
20
talking about the proceeds to be received from the delay draw
15:45:49
21
term loans that are made in response to any particular notice of
15:45:53
22
borrowing.
15:45:56
23
15:46:00
24
the language of 2.B.3 that says those proceeds will be applied
15:46:07
25
first to repay in full the then outstanding revolving term
Similarly, the references to other places in the
I guess there are three new arguments, and I'm happy to
I think the main one or the only one that's really based
Number 1, the agreement itself in § 1.2.B says, you
And reading this in context, it's clear § 2.B.3 is
That's clearly what it means.
Even more importantly, their argument doesn't deal with
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
23
15:46:11
1
loans, and that just can't happen if, as Your Honor has already
15:46:15
2
found, if "fully drawn" meant "fully requested" as opposed to
15:46:20
3
"fully funded."
15:46:21
4
15:46:25
5
stop.
15:46:27
6
in our reply papers, are similarly, I think, just totally devoid
15:46:30
7
of any merit and indeed the other ones go beyond the four
15:46:33
8
corners of the contract as well, but I'm obviously happy to
15:46:36
9
answer any questions.
15:46:38
10
15:46:40
11
that hasn't been already developed in the papers or you want to
15:46:46
12
emphasize?
15:46:47
13
15:46:49
14
would like to take on the charge that our use of "delay draw
15:46:53
15
term loan" is specious.
15:47:01
16
that revolvers suggested and that the Court adopted in the
15:47:03
17
August 2009 opinion just does not work because 2.1.B.3 uses the
15:47:11
18
term "delay draw term loan."
15:47:15
19
15:47:17
20
do this because this was an argument that was fleshed out on the
15:47:21
21
reply, just go to the definition of "delay draw commitment" in
15:47:27
22
the credit agreement.
15:47:31
23
delay draw lender the obligation of such lender, if any, to make
15:47:37
24
delay draw term loan.
15:47:39
25
Your Honor, I know you don't need to hear this.
I'll
The other arguments, I think, you know, as we've laid out
THE COURT:
MR. HEATON:
All right.
Anything that you want to cover
I won't emphasize anything.
Your Honor, I
That argument, the line of reasoning
You can go, for example, we didn't have the chance to
"Delay draw commitment" means as to any
Go to "delay draw lender," same page, Page 12 of the
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
24
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1
credit agreement, "A delay draw lender means each lender that
15:47:45
2
has a delay draw commitment or is the holder of a delay draw
15:47:50
3
term loan."
15:47:50
4
If the parties had meant that the amount of the entire
15:47:57
5
borrowing had to be bigger than the outstanding revolving loan,
15:48:01
6
they would have used the term they used in 2.1.B.1 which is each
15:48:06
7
borrowing under the delay draw commitment.
15:48:09
8
15:48:18
9
15:48:23
10
what we point out in our briefs, a reasonable person can hold
15:48:27
11
the view that "drawn" means "demanded" there and that's all we
15:48:33
12
have to show.
15:48:34
13
15:48:36
14
draw term loan" meant what was funded by a single delay draw
15:48:44
15
term lender, then this 2.B.3 doesn't make any sense at all
15:48:49
16
because there's no way that those monies could ever be applied
15:48:52
17
to repay in full on these outstanding revolving loans.
15:48:57
18
the agreement, including 1.2, I said "B" before; it's 1.2.D
15:49:02
19
which says "The meanings given to terms defined herein shall be
15:49:06
20
equally applicable to both the singular and plural forms of such
15:49:09
21
terms," gives the Court the ability, indeed I think it is the
15:49:12
22
inescapable ability, to interpret this in the manner that we've
15:49:18
23
suggested and in the manner that Your Honor has previously
15:49:21
24
found.
15:49:24
25
So it may be that "drawn" should mean "funded," but
that reasoning doesn't work.
MR. RICE:
And in light of all the rest of
Your Honor, just very briefly.
THE COURT:
All right.
If "delay
Clearly
Is there anything else that you
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
25
15:49:26
1
want to bring to my attention that came up in the reply that you
15:49:31
2
haven't had a chance to address?
15:49:34
3
15:49:38
4
point.
15:49:42
5
It says each loan that comes in has to be set out over here
15:49:47
6
until that thing is repaid in full, and then the extra monies
15:49:52
7
go elsewhere into the bank proceeds account.
15:49:55
8
15:50:01
9
ambiguity, but it can never be such a strong ambiguity that it
15:50:06
10
can overcome what is obviously the meaning of "delay draw term
15:50:11
11
loan" which is the loan that each delay draw lender makes.
15:50:15
12
15:50:17
13
say that Mr. Heaton has not addressed § 1.2.D which gives Your
15:50:21
14
Honor actually the ability and, I think, obligates us to
15:50:22
15
interpret this in the way that makes sense within the context of
15:50:26
16
the agreement.
15:50:28
17
15:50:32
18
opportunity through the briefing to point out their various
15:50:35
19
positions, particularly as it relates to what I have said in a
15:50:40
20
prior order, so let's go to the remainder of the points if you
15:50:45
21
feel that oral argument is necessary on any of those remaining
15:50:52
22
issues on your motion.
15:50:53
23
15:50:57
24
15:50:58
25
Just to respond to the repay in full
MR. HEATON:
Your Honor, it's very simply a flow of funds mechanism.
At worst for the term lenders "in full" creates an
MR. RICE:
I'm not going to respond further except to
THE COURT:
MR. RICE:
All right.
I think everybody has had the
Your Honor, it's me, Tom Rice, again.
me just make one other point if I can on the argument.
THE COURT:
Go ahead.
May 7, 2010
Let
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Oral Argument
26
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1
15:50:59
2
made a number of arguments, but I think the only other one that
15:51:03
3
I wanted to focus on was our argument that by the time the
15:51:10
4
second notice of borrowing came in April, the April 21st notice
15:51:13
5
of borrowing for which we were sued for allegedly breaching
15:51:17
6
that, that that claim relating to that breach, you know, fails
15:51:23
7
as a matter of law because it is conceded, indeed it's
15:51:29
8
affirmatively alleged, that the day before that the revolving
15:51:31
9
lenders had issued notice of termination of their commitments.
15:51:36
10
15:51:41
11
otherwise, that had there been an event of default by
15:51:45
12
Fontainebleau on April 20th, that notice of termination could be
15:51:53
13
issued and, indeed, there are affirmative allegations by the
15:51:59
14
plaintiffs which show why -- withdrawn.
15:52:03
15
15:52:06
16
of default and indeed through their own pleadings we know why,
15:52:11
17
because they affirmatively allege elsewhere the existence of the
15:52:14
18
events of default.
15:52:19
19
April 21 notice of borrowing was that the termination of the
15:52:20
20
commitments on April 20 was no good because the reasons for that
15:52:24
21
termination were not given.
15:52:26
22
And, Your Honor, what we've laid out in our papers that
15:52:30
23
certainly they've asserted -- they have pointed to the Court for
15:52:33
24
no authority for that proposition, and I don't know that there
15:52:38
25
is any in the case law or, more importantly, within the contract
MR. RICE:
I mean, there really are -- you know, we
It's conceded as well, both in the papers and
The plaintiffs have not alleged the absence of an event
So their entire argument with regard to the
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
27
15:52:41
1
itself.
15:52:44
2
15:52:48
3
Section 8, it talks about providing a notice or by notice
15:52:55
4
terminating.
15:52:59
5
should be, is a notice that the commitment is terminated.
15:53:02
6
There's nothing in there to suggest that they're supposed to be
15:53:05
7
given notice of the default which gives rise to the termination;
15:53:09
8
and we pointed to, in a footnote, I'm sorry to say, in our
15:53:13
9
papers, to § 8.D.2 which shows, you know, again, how the parties
15:53:19
10
when they mean to require notice of a default, as opposed to
15:53:24
11
notice of a termination, of how that's done.
15:53:27
12
15:53:30
13
several other provisions in the contract that make clear when
15:53:33
14
the parties are looking for specificity in terms of what the
15:53:36
15
notice will give, they know exactly how to do that.
15:53:41
16
refer the Court to § 6.7 in which when the borrower has an
15:53:45
17
obligation to give a notice of its defaults when they occur.
15:53:50
18
makes clear that they shall "set forth details of the occurrence
15:53:53
19
referred to therein and stating what action the company is
15:53:56
20
proposed to take thereto."
15:53:58
21
15:54:01
22
detail in terms of the notice, they say so, and I'll just give
15:54:05
23
you cites without burdening you with the argument about them,
15:54:08
24
but similar specificity is required in § 5.1 relating to
15:54:14
25
conditions for the closing date, § 2.17 relating to notice of
I think looking at the relevant provisions of
It's clear they're talking about what the notice
And then, Your Honor, if I could just briefly refer to
Briefly, I
It
So when the parties are looking for in the agreement
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
28
15:54:20
1
increased borrowing costs as a result of changes in law, § 6.8
15:54:25
2
relating to environmental law issues and, maybe most obviously,
15:54:31
3
in §§ 2.4 and 2.6 in notices of borrowing where there's
15:54:36
4
specificity as to when details of the notice of borrowing need
15:54:40
5
to be given.
15:54:41
6
15:54:45
7
I'm not trying to go outside the scope of the pleadings, but
15:54:48
8
there is reference to the Aurelius complaint at Paragraph 68,
15:54:53
9
and that is when the March 2nd third notice of borrowing came
15:55:08
10
forward.
15:55:19
11
refused to fund, essentially for the reasons that were
15:55:27
12
incorporated in the responses; and it wasn't until it was
15:55:32
13
severed out, that is, the draw term request was made
15:55:36
14
independent, that there was funding by the draw term lenders.
15:55:39
15
15:55:44
16
sure that I understood that this is sufficiently from the
15:55:49
17
pleadings itself.
15:55:56
18
revolvers and the draw term lenders that met on this and made
15:56:03
19
their decision, forwarded on to Bank of America and then Bank of
15:56:10
20
America said, "Well, whoever disagrees with this can act
15:56:15
21
independently."
15:56:21
22
15:56:23
23
complaints fairly allege that on March 2 there was a borrowing,
15:56:29
24
a notice of borrowing for $670 million.
15:56:33
25
$656 million on March 3.
THE COURT:
Let me go back to one point because, again,
My understanding is that most of the delay draw lenders
Now, I wanted to go over the procedure on that and make
But there was a committee made up of the
Is that a fair analysis of what --
MR. RICE:
Yes, I believe it is, Your Honor.
May 7, 2010
The
It was corrected to
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Oral Argument
29
15:56:39
1
On March 4th, there is reference in the complaint, and
15:56:44
2
therefore we attached it to our motion papers, so I don't think
15:56:49
3
it's outside the record -- it's Exhibit E to my affidavit with
15:56:54
4
our motions -- there is a communication from Bank of America's
15:56:59
5
agent to lenders and professionals who get these things which
15:57:03
6
says, "We're posting this renewed loan notice and we're advising
15:57:12
7
you that we formed an ad hoc committee of lenders."
15:57:17
8
THE COURT:
15:57:19
9
MR. RICE:
15:57:23
10
of lenders which included revolving lenders and some term loan
15:57:28
11
lenders as well.
15:57:30
12
15:57:32
13
15:57:33
14
15:57:35
15
some of the plaintiffs were.
15:57:40
16
This is not in the record, I don't believe, Your Honor, you
15:57:42
17
know, on the motion; but I do believe that at least one or a
15:57:48
18
term loan only member was Highland, which I believe some of the
15:57:54
19
plaintiffs who are on the other side of the table have acquired
15:57:57
20
their interest.
15:57:58
21
15:58:02
22
the interpretation of fully drawn that we've argued and Your
15:58:05
23
Honor has found, and then it goes on to state importantly -- and
15:58:09
24
I believe it is both alleged and it is also here in the
15:58:13
25
exhibit -- that "lenders which disagree with the steering
This is the steering committee of lenders.
It was called an ad hoc steering committee
THE COURT:
Were these plaintiffs members of that
committee?
MR. RICE:
I believe, Your Honor, that predecessors of
Highland, for example, is one.
But that ad hoc committee said it unanimously supported
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
30
15:58:16
1
committee's position are asked to immediately contact Bank of
15:58:19
2
America as administrative agent to make operational arrangements
15:58:22
3
for funding their portion of the requested borrowing."
15:58:28
4
15:58:30
5
America was saying if there were any draw term lenders that
15:58:35
6
disagreed with the ad hoc steering committee's position, they
15:58:39
7
can act independently.
15:58:41
8
15:58:43
9
15:58:46
10
until there was yet a third borrowing notice which removed the
15:58:51
11
request for the revolver.
15:58:53
12
15:58:56
13
what's on the face of the complaint and what's fairly part of
15:59:04
14
these proceedings.
15:59:07
15
what's commercially fair and all, but didn't your predecessors
15:59:13
16
agree with Bank of America that that was the proper position
15:59:17
17
because they didn't come back after the fact and say, "You know
15:59:21
18
what, we don't believe that's right.
15:59:25
19
separately to protect our position."
15:59:28
20
15:59:29
21
we shouldn't go outside of the record at a time like this
15:59:33
22
because Your Honor is not in a position to know yet, without
15:59:38
23
benefit of expert testimony or fact testimony, what the course
15:59:41
24
of conduct is for lenders in a syndicate when their
15:59:46
25
administrative agent tells them --
Okay.
THE COURT:
MR. RICE:
Your Honor.
So at that juncture what Bank of
They can go ahead and fund and none did,
This is, I think, in the complaints.
None did
So let me go back to that issue in terms of
THE COURT:
You're talking about course of dealings and
MR. HEATON:
We're going to fund
Your Honor, this is a great example of why
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
31
15:59:46
1
15:59:49
2
fairly on the face of the complaint that there was a procedure
15:59:56
3
in process where Bank of America said, "This is the position of
16:00:01
4
the ad hoc committee.
16:00:08
5
any term lenders disagree, go ahead and you may act separately."
16:00:13
6
I mean, that's not subject to expert testimony.
16:00:17
7
if that's a fair statement of what appears on the face of what
16:00:21
8
has been pled.
16:00:23
9
16:00:25
10
unfair would be to infer from that that the reason that the term
16:00:32
11
lenders did not fund was that they agreed with, acquiesced in,
16:00:41
12
Bank of America's decision.
16:00:44
13
hoc.
16:00:48
14
And to get back to the interrelatedness of a
16:00:52
15
transaction like this, something that the Court in the Deutsche
16:00:55
16
Bank case that we cite recognized, and which would be proven if
16:01:00
17
we had the chance to take evidence on this, is that no one is
16:01:09
18
going to fund into that sort of a situation.
16:01:15
19
16:01:21
20
or this thing doesn't make any sense.
16:01:24
21
would show when we got there is Bank of America knew full well,
16:01:28
22
or should have known full well, that no one was going to fund
16:01:32
23
once they had announced that their decision was it wasn't a
16:01:38
24
valid notice.
16:01:39
25
THE COURT:
MR. HEATON:
I didn't ask about that.
I'm asking what's
We're going to proceed to not fund and if
That's a fair statement.
I'm just asking
What would be
That ad hoc committee was very ad
It was not any official committee.
The whole idea here is that either everybody's funding
And what the evidence
And I think, you know, if we're going to go outside
May 7, 2010
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Oral Argument
32
16:01:42
1
like this or if we're gonna look at stuff which is, you know,
16:01:46
2
outside the pleadings, but certainly outside the four corners of
16:01:48
3
the agreement, all of this is going to show that these terms are
16:01:54
4
susceptible to reasonable differences of opinion, and we need to
16:01:58
5
take discovery to figure out what this means.
16:02:01
6
16:02:05
7
you had two people before you saying this is unambiguous and the
16:02:09
8
other guy is being unreasonable.
16:02:12
9
think the term lenders are telling it like it is with respect to
16:02:17
10
these items.
16:02:21
11
agreement.
16:02:22
12
16:02:28
13
Reasonable minds can differ and they did differ because some of
16:02:30
14
the term lenders funded.
16:02:36
15
16:02:39
16
What is before Your Honor, you know, based on the pleadings and
16:02:40
17
the agreements are as Your Honor stated:
16:02:44
18
borrowing request on March 3, Bank of America gave the notice
16:02:49
19
that it gave.
16:02:51
20
agreement says each lender is obligated to make its own
16:02:55
21
decisions without reliance on anybody else, and what's also in
16:02:58
22
the record from Mr. Heaton's pleading, as well as elsewhere, is
16:03:04
23
that nobody funded in response to that second borrowing request
16:03:08
24
and did not fund until the request for the revolving loan was
16:03:15
25
removed from the agreement.
And when Your Honor went through this in August 2009,
Their view is unreasonable.
This term "fully drawn" is ambiguous in this
You know, there is ambiguity in this agreement.
MR. RICE:
Your Honor, if I may just very quickly.
After the second
It was also in the record that the credit
I think that clearly is supportive
May 7, 2010
I
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Oral Argument
33
16:03:19
1
of the clear and unambiguous reading of "fully funded" that Your
16:03:23
2
Honor has previously found.
16:03:25
3
16:03:30
4
motion that anybody feels they need to bring up at this point in
16:03:34
5
oral argument that's not already covered by the papers?
16:03:39
6
MR. RICE:
16:03:42
7
THE COURT:
16:03:46
8
we've been at this about 45 minutes, and I want to have
16:03:50
9
sufficient time for the other issues.
16:03:53
10
Anything else from your side on that?
16:03:56
11
MR. HEATON:
16:03:57
12
THE COURT:
16:04:02
13
Bank of America's motion to dismiss the term lenders'
16:04:06
14
disbursement agreement claims which is Docket Entry 35 and
16:04:13
15
invite again anything you wish to emphasize here at oral
16:04:19
16
argument that you feel needs to be fleshed out more.
16:04:23
17
16:04:26
18
from O'Melveny & Myers.
16:04:30
19
argument because you have the papers and it's all there.
16:04:34
20
want to emphasize that term lenders -- they assert that the
16:04:39
21
disbursement agent here is the gatekeeper and that the
16:04:43
22
disbursement agent is lenders' last line of defense.
16:04:47
23
16:04:51
24
are entirely inconsistent with the clear and unambiguous terms
16:04:55
25
of the disbursement agreement which at every turn seeks to limit
THE COURT:
All right.
Is there anything else in the
Nothing from me, Your Honor.
MR. CANTOR:
Anyone else in terms of the motion because
No, Your Honor.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Your Honor.
So let me turn to
Again, Dan Cantor
I will not go through the full blown
I just
And while these are nice rhetorical flourishes, they
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 34 of 63
Oral Argument
34
16:05:00
1
the disbursement agent's obligations and clearly establishes
16:05:04
2
that the position of disbursement agent is essentially an
16:05:09
3
administrative position.
16:05:13
4
gatekeeper.
16:05:16
5
auditor.
16:05:17
6
I would most particularly direct Your Honor's attention
16:05:20
7
to §§ 2.4.4 and 9.3.2 of the disbursement agreement which, taken
16:05:29
8
together, make it clear that with respect to advance requests,
16:05:35
9
the disbursement agent's sole obligation was to make sure that
16:05:39
10
the advance request that was submitted by Fontainebleau
16:05:41
11
contained all of the necessary documents.
16:05:45
12
were certifications that the conditions for funding under § 3.3
16:05:51
13
were met.
16:05:53
14
16:05:57
15
there, the disbursement agent had no choice.
16:06:01
16
It shall send an advance confirmation notice to the funding
16:06:04
17
agents who, in turn, shall release the funds to Fontainebleau.
16:06:10
18
16:06:16
19
amplifies the limited nature of the disbursement agent's
16:06:20
20
obligations.
16:06:22
21
not required to conduct any independent investigation with
16:06:25
22
respect to the accuracy, completeness, veracity of documents
16:06:29
23
submitted by Fontainebleau to certify its compliance.
16:06:33
24
16:06:35
25
The disbursement agent was not a
It was not a watchdog.
It certainly was not an
Among those documents
If, in fact, all of the required documentation was
It was required.
§ 9.3.2 -- I'll do this very quickly, Your Honor --
It specifically provides the disbursement agent is
It specifically provides that notwithstanding anything
else in the agreement to the contrary, that in approving an
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 35 of 63
Oral Argument
35
16:06:40
1
advance request, the disbursement agent is allowed to rely on
16:06:44
2
certifications from Fontainebleau as to the satisfaction of
16:06:49
3
conditions, and it specifically provides that the disbursement
16:06:52
4
agent is protected in acting upon any certifications that it
16:06:56
5
provides or that it receives, rather, from Fontainebleau.
16:07:01
6
16:07:04
7
any breach of contract claim with respect to the disbursement
16:07:09
8
agent's -- with respect to BofA's conduct as the disbursement
16:07:16
9
agent fails to state a claim, Your Honor.
16:07:18
10
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:07:19
11
of the plaintiffs in this case.
16:07:30
12
argument, one would assume that if you went back and read the
16:07:33
13
complaint, we allege that Bank of America failed in its
16:07:37
14
obligations as disbursement agent.
16:07:39
15
16:07:44
16
significantly, it was also the bank agent which is also called
16:07:50
17
the administrative agent.
16:07:53
18
to describe the responsibilities of the disbursement agent in
16:08:00
19
many different places, and I would suggest that some of those,
16:08:07
20
even if we were talking about the responsibilities as
16:08:09
21
disbursement agents, have been, shall we say, overly
16:08:17
22
optimistically characterized by counsel.
16:08:20
23
16:08:31
24
reliance generally which if you would just listen to the
16:08:34
25
argument, you would assume that this is like a letter of credit
So it is clear, Your Honor, from these provisions that
Your Honor, Michael Hennigan on behalf
Listening to counsel's
Bank of America played many roles here and,
There are provisions here that tend
He points, for example, to 9.3.2.
May 7, 2010
9.3.2 encaptioned
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 36 of 63
Oral Argument
36
16:08:38
1
where the disbursement agent is required to examine the document
16:08:42
2
itself and if the document itself appears to be in order and
16:08:47
3
properly signed, that he can and should rely on it.
16:08:53
4
what it says.
16:08:54
5
16:09:00
6
to skip into a complex paragraph -- "with a document believed by
16:09:05
7
it on reasonable grounds to be genuine and to have been signed
16:09:10
8
and presented by the proper party."
16:09:13
9
16:09:21
10
American Heritage Dictionary this morning to look at "genuine."
16:09:27
11
"Genuine" of course, means, "sincere."
16:09:32
12
means "to be trusted."
16:09:36
13
16:09:42
14
grounds to believe that it's genuine with the allegations of the
16:09:47
15
complaint that very specifically set forth the fact that Bank of
16:09:50
16
America, at the time it began processing these disbursement
16:09:56
17
requests, was fully aware of the fact that there had been a
16:10:01
18
material breach of one of the lending agreements by Lehman
16:10:03
19
Brothers and specified that that notice had been received by
16:10:11
20
them several months earlier.
16:10:13
21
16:10:21
22
there's a gatekeeper here, it's the BofA, it's not the
16:10:26
23
disbursement agent but the BofA.
16:10:30
24
its responsibilities as the bank agent, Paragraph 3.3 of the
16:10:34
25
agreement requires that the bank agent -- and I'm going to read
That's not
9.3.2 requires the disbursement agent -- and I'm going
Well, "genuine and signed."
We did a quick look of the
It means "real."
It
So we contrast that phrase of requiring reasonable
So we begin there.
We also point out the fact that if
Perhaps most significantly in
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 37 of 63
Oral Argument
37
16:10:41
1
this paragraph slowly and carefully -- "Conditions precedent to
16:10:46
2
advances by the trustee and the bank agent.
16:10:54
3
the trustee to make advances from the second mortgage proceeds
16:11:01
4
account to the second mortgage funding account and of the bank
16:11:04
5
agent to make advances from the bank proceeds account are each
16:11:08
6
subject to the prior satisfaction of each of the conditions
16:11:11
7
precedent set forth in this Section 3.3."
16:11:15
8
16:11:23
9
16:11:28
10
functioning responsibility of the bank agent at that moment in
16:11:32
11
time.
16:11:37
12
disbursement process, to ensure, make reasonable efforts to
16:11:40
13
conclude that the conditions precedent in 3.3 have been
16:11:44
14
satisfied.
16:11:44
15
We, of course, have alleged, I think very plainly, that
16:11:50
16
not only were they not but that Bank of America -- and we're not
16:11:56
17
specific with respect to which capacity it is -- was aware of
16:12:02
18
the fact that there were material breaches and they were aware
16:12:04
19
of them because term lenders had put them on specific notice of
16:12:09
20
it.
16:12:12
21
One of the provisions of Section 3 --
16:12:18
22
THE COURT:
16:12:21
23
record that deals with whether the plaintiffs here or their
16:12:28
24
predecessors were among those that put the bank on notice?
16:12:31
25
The obligations of
Well, there are, as far as I'm aware, no limitations or
no paragraphs that would describe some kind of narrow
He is required as bank agent, before he proceeds with the
Well, let me ask:
MR. HENNIGAN:
Is there anything in the
Plaintiffs and their predecessors put
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 38 of 63
Oral Argument
38
16:12:34
1
them on notice, yes.
16:12:35
2
THE COURT:
16:12:41
3
were aware of defaults, at least what could be characterized as
16:12:45
4
defaults, prior to making the draw term loans.
16:12:55
5
16:12:59
6
the emphasises here that relates to the prior argument as well
16:13:03
7
is this was one tightly knit, cohesive lending agreement that we
16:13:13
8
believed at the time anyone who failed to fund in the face of a
16:13:16
9
demand from the Bank of America in whichever capacity was going
16:13:20
10
to do so at its peril because it was likely going to crash this
16:13:25
11
entire multibillion dollar project.
16:13:28
12
16:13:30
13
understand in terms of your position.
16:13:33
14
predecessors knew and informed Bank of America and truly
16:13:37
15
believed that there were defaults, then why fund since you had
16:13:45
16
an independent and severable opportunity to make that decision.
16:13:53
17
16:13:53
18
Your Honor, it is our obligation to fund whether or not there
16:13:55
19
have been defaults.
16:14:00
20
know, we have an administrative agent, sometimes also called the
16:14:05
21
bank agent, who is responsible for ensuring that those funds do
16:14:10
22
not leave the sanctity of that account and get out into the
16:14:19
23
project until there are no longer any material breaches.
16:14:22
24
fact of the material breach does not prevent our obligation to
16:14:24
25
fund; it prevents their obligation to disburse.
So therefore plaintiffs and predecessors
MR. HENNIGAN:
THE COURT:
Indeed, Your Honor, and I think one of
This is what I'd like you to help me
MR. HENNIGAN:
If plaintiff and
Because the way we read the obligations,
It goes into a special block account.
May 7, 2010
You
So the
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 39 of 63
Oral Argument
39
16:14:29
1
16:14:33
2
conditional on that by saying our position is that there is a
16:14:41
3
default because of these two situations, and we are stating this
16:14:47
4
to you to make sure these other components of the agreement are
16:14:52
5
met so our monies are not further disbursed in a way that
16:14:57
6
prejudices us until this issue is resolved.
16:15:03
7
16:15:06
8
me on the Deutsche Bank where there was a declaratory action as
16:15:10
9
to what would happen or not happen under the circumstances.
16:15:13
10
this is where I'm having some difficulty because there's nothing
16:15:17
11
I saw from your side of it, or your predecessor's side, that
16:15:24
12
funded conditionally subject to maintaining rights.
16:15:30
13
that?
16:15:35
14
if I consider at this point -- but to what extent does that
16:15:40
15
address the issues of Bank of America's responsibility when
16:15:47
16
it's, you know, something that is also subject to your control
16:15:52
17
as well.
16:15:53
18
16:15:55
19
agreements, we were required to fund.
16:15:59
20
relatively safe function and keeps us from breaching.
16:16:04
21
step is whether Bank of America is going to permit disbursal and
16:16:08
22
in the two communications to the BofA dated September and
16:16:16
23
October '08, they say:
16:16:23
24
default and here are some of the things you can do.
16:16:29
25
is the borrower's legal counsel should provide an opinion that
THE COURT:
But wouldn't your communication be
In effect, this is something like the case you cited to
So
What about
I mean, to what extent is that something -- I don't know
MR. HENNIGAN:
Well, as I said, the way we read the
That's supposed to be a
The next
"We believe that there has been a
May 7, 2010
One of them
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 40 of 63
Oral Argument
40
16:16:37
1
the Lehman funding agreement is in full force and effect.
Our
16:16:43
2
position is that Lehman is in breach of the agreement.
16:16:46
3
not appear that the retail lenders made the September payment
16:16:50
4
but, rather, equity investors.
16:16:55
5
Merrill Lynch.
16:16:59
6
made for funding requests were false."
16:17:08
7
16:17:13
8
disbursement agent received notice of Lehman default from one or
16:17:17
9
more term lenders.
16:17:24
10
necessarily a default forever and steps can be taken in the
16:17:29
11
interim to make sure that the defaults have been cured and that
16:17:35
12
the project is still in force, and that's where we rely upon the
16:17:40
13
discretion, good faith and contractual responsibilities of the
16:17:45
14
BofA.
16:17:48
15
16:17:49
16
and let me try to get to all of it, and I'll try to do it in the
16:17:53
17
order in which Mr. Hennigan laid it out.
16:17:59
18
his first arguments are interesting arguments that I would have
16:18:02
19
enjoyed responding to in my reply brief had they been found
16:18:07
20
anywhere in his opposition brief, but this is the first time I'm
16:18:10
21
hearing of an argument about the word "genuine."
16:18:14
22
16:18:18
23
what 9.3.2 was meant to mean was that the disbursement agent
16:18:25
24
shall be protected in acting or referring on acting in any
16:18:29
25
certificate or other paper document believed by it on reasonable
It does
Please see attached report from
This would indicate that the reps the companies
As we alleged in Paragraph 129, the BofA as
I think the quick answer is a default isn't
MR. CANTOR:
Thank you, Your Honor.
There's a lot here
Certainly several of
I certainly believe that it would be an odd choice if
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 41 of 63
Oral Argument
41
16:18:34
1
grounds to be genuine or to be signed and presented.
16:18:38
2
that meant was that, in fact, we needed to believe that it was
16:18:42
3
accurate, notwithstanding the fact that later in the paragraph
16:18:44
4
it says that we are not required to conduct any independent
16:18:47
5
investigation as to the accuracy, veracity or completeness of
16:18:51
6
any such items or investigate any other facts or circumstances
16:18:55
7
to verify compliance by the project entities, "genuine" is an
16:18:59
8
odd word to have chosen to laden it with as much meaning as
16:19:05
9
counsel now gives it here.
16:19:08
10
The second argument was about --
16:19:10
11
THE COURT:
16:19:13
12
I missed this -- is there anything in the complaint where
16:19:17
13
Fontainebleau affirmatively certifies that there was no default,
16:19:22
14
such that Bank of America could rely upon that?
16:19:26
15
MR. CANTOR:
16:19:28
16
THE COURT:
16:19:31
17
point to in the complaint one way or the other that refers to
16:19:38
18
Fontainebleau affirmatively certifying that there was no
16:19:40
19
default, such that Bank of America could rely upon that?
16:19:46
20
16:19:48
21
specifically allege that.
16:19:50
22
contract provides that Fontainebleau will submit this advance
16:19:57
23
request.
16:20:01
24
Exhibit C1.
16:20:05
25
disbursement agreement and thus is in the record in that form.
MR. CANTOR:
Can we go back?
I'm sorry.
If what
Is there anything -- maybe
I couldn't hear Your Honor.
I say, Is there anything that anyone could
I don't know whether plaintiffs
The process, Your Honor, under the
A copy of the advance request is in the record.
It's
A model advance request is Exhibit C1 to the
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 42 of 63
Oral Argument
42
16:20:08
1
And what you'll see if you look at the document is that it
16:20:12
2
requires numerous, different representations, warranties and
16:20:17
3
certifications by Fontainebleau, among other things, as to the
16:20:21
4
satisfaction of all conditions required for funding.
16:20:29
5
16:20:32
6
respect to counsel's argument with § 3.3 and the bank agent's
16:20:40
7
responsibility to fund because if you look at the way this is
16:20:43
8
supposed to work -- and it's very important, Your Honor, to
16:20:47
9
recognize that in this complex lending transaction, these
16:20:51
10
lengthy documents, lengthy and detailed documents, set up some
16:20:55
11
very specific procedures that had to be followed here and if
16:20:59
12
they were followed, there were rights that flow from that, and
16:21:02
13
we can't just sit here and argue about what should've happened
16:21:04
14
or what sounds right.
16:21:07
15
16:21:10
16
of the contract were followed.
16:21:14
17
agreement, it provides, let me back up one.
16:21:19
18
Fontainebleau to submit an advance request in order to obtain
16:21:24
19
funds that have been provided by the lenders.
16:21:29
20
this advance request which I previously described to Your Honor,
16:21:31
21
under 2.4.4 the disbursement agent reviews the advance request
16:21:37
22
and the attachments thereto to determine whether all required
16:21:41
23
documentation has been provided.
16:21:45
24
that the disbursement agent has under 2.4.4.
16:21:50
25
And that actually, Your Honor, is significant with
We have to look and see whether the specific provisions
In § 2.4.4 of the disbursement
§ 2.4 provides for
When they submit
That is the only obligation
If you then flip forward to 2.4.6, it says that
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 43 of 63
Oral Argument
43
16:21:54
1
when the applicable conditions precedent set forth in Article 3
16:21:58
2
have been satisfied, and they get satisfied in this instance by
16:22:01
3
virtue of a certification to the disbursement agent by the
16:22:05
4
borrower that they've been satisfied, then it says the
16:22:09
5
disbursement agent shall execute an advance confirmation notice
16:22:13
6
setting forth the amount of advances to be made pursuant to each
16:22:17
7
finance agreement on the advance date.
16:22:19
8
16:22:24
9
16:22:28
10
agents, which is the same as the bank agent, shall make the
16:22:31
11
advances contemplated by that advance confirmation notice to the
16:22:36
12
relevant accounts.
16:22:38
13
So to the extent that we're talking about obligations
16:22:42
14
under the disbursement agreement here, it is clear that all of
16:22:46
15
the proper -- that there has been no allegation that the proper
16:22:49
16
steps were not followed here.
16:22:54
17
as I read them and as described in plaintiffs' opposition brief
16:23:00
18
after we said when we read the complaint, we see the claim
16:23:04
19
against BofA as disbursement agent to be the following:
16:23:08
20
BofA was wrong in approving advance requests and in not issuing
16:23:13
21
stop funding notices.
16:23:14
22
16:23:17
23
there, that there was some other claim that we needed to address
16:23:20
24
because we would have addressed it in our reply brief.
16:23:23
25
we have established, Your Honor, in our briefs is that with
And then if you go further down in that paragraph, it
says that on the scheduled advance date, each of the funding
The allegations in the complaint,
That
No one ever said to us that we'd missed something
May 7, 2010
And what
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 44 of 63
Oral Argument
44
16:23:25
1
respect to those two claims, that if you parse through § 2.4.4
16:23:29
2
and 2.4.6 which deal with advance requests and if you look at §
16:23:35
3
2.5.1 which deals with the conditions under which a stop funding
16:23:41
4
notice is permitted to issue, there is no allegation that BofA
16:23:47
5
in its capacity as disbursement agent has breached any
16:23:50
6
obligation that it had under the disbursement agreement.
16:23:53
7
16:23:59
8
breached any obligation that it had under the disbursement
16:24:01
9
agreement.
16:24:06
10
have quarrel with whether BofA took actions that they consider
16:24:10
11
to be improper under other agreements.
16:24:14
12
claim, we'll address it.
16:24:15
13
16:24:18
14
whether Bank of America breached the disbursement agreement, and
16:24:22
15
there is no allegation sufficient when read next to the clear
16:24:27
16
and unambiguous terms of the disbursement agreement establishing
16:24:31
17
that sort of a breach.
16:24:34
18
16:24:37
19
which, I think, gets sometimes spoken about too swiftly when
16:24:44
20
counsel for BofA is speaking.
16:24:50
21
"When the applicable conditions precedent set forth in Article 3
16:24:54
22
have been satisfied," that's when the rest of the paragraph
16:24:59
23
follows.
16:25:00
24
16:25:04
25
There isn't even any allegation that BofA as bank agent
These are disbursement agreement claims.
They may
If they ever plead that
But the claim that we're dealing with here now is
MR. HENNIGAN:
Your Honor, let's go back to 2.4.6
Let me read the first sentence:
Let's go back to Article 3.
Article 3 is the one that
says that the bank agent is required -- obligations are
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 45 of 63
Oral Argument
45
16:25:09
1
conditioned upon the satisfaction of all the conditions
16:25:12
2
precedent.
16:25:20
3
16:25:23
4
account made concurrently with or after exhaustion of the second
16:25:27
5
mortgage proceeds account, the bank agent shall not have become
16:25:32
6
aware, after the date hereof, of any information or other matter
16:25:37
7
affecting any loan party, Turnberry residential, the project or
16:25:43
8
the transactions contemplated hereby that, taken as a whole, is
16:25:48
9
inconsistent in a material and adverse manner with the
16:25:51
10
information or other matter disclosed to them concerning such
16:25:56
11
projects and the project taken as a whole."
16:25:58
12
16:26:01
13
precedent to disbursing any funds, cannot have become aware of
16:26:05
14
any adverse information.
16:26:10
15
16:26:12
16
agreement and the way that the funding mechanism was set up.
16:26:18
17
Looking at 2.4.6:
16:26:23
18
forth in Article 3 have been satisfied, the disbursement agent
16:26:29
19
shall."
16:26:35
20
make it crystal clear that the disbursement agent's
16:26:39
21
responsibility with respect to determining whether the
16:26:41
22
conditions precedent set forth in Article 3 have been satisfied,
16:26:45
23
that obligation is fulfilled if it receives a certification from
16:26:51
24
the borrower that all of the conditions necessary to a borrowing
16:26:55
25
have been satisfied.
Let me read to you condition precedent 3.3.21.
"In the case of each advance from a bank proceeds
In other words, Bank of America, as a condition
MR. CANTOR:
Your Honor, that ignores the rest of the
"When the applicable conditions precedent set
The rest of the contract, particularly 2.4.4 and 9.3.2,
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 46 of 63
Oral Argument
46
16:26:56
1
When they get that certification and there's no
16:26:58
2
16:26:59
3
16:27:02
4
16:27:07
5
16:27:09
6
16:27:15
7
THE COURT:
Would you answer my question?
16:27:17
8
MR. CANTOR:
I am trying to, Your Honor.
16:27:19
9
16:27:23
10
representation.
16:27:25
11
make that representation.
16:27:26
12
16:27:29
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that be an important part of your statement of claim that
16:27:35
14
Fontainebleau failed to make representation, and there was a
16:27:43
15
loan anyway?
16:27:47
16
important to your claim as it relates to Bank of America?
16:27:51
17
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:27:51
18
THE COURT:
16:27:53
19
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:27:54
20
16:27:58
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16:28:01
22
16:28:02
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16:28:06
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had failed to allege that Bank of America was actually on notice
16:28:10
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of adverse information, in which case we would have to then
allegation --
THE COURT:
So was there a certification that's part of
anything in this record so far from Fontainebleau?
I would say, Your Honor, there is no --
MR. CANTOR:
the process is the process.
The -- the -- the --
I apologize.
There is no allegation that Fontainebleau made that
There is also no allegation that they failed to
THE COURT:
Well, let me ask you about that.
Wouldn't
I mean, isn't what Fontainebleau did or didn't do
No.
Explain that to me.
First of all, there's no allegation one
way or the other in the complaint.
THE COURT:
That's why I'm asking whether that's
materially missing.
MR. HENNIGAN:
It is not.
May 7, 2010
It might be important if we
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 47 of 63
Oral Argument
47
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allege that they were not in possession of the kind of
16:28:16
2
documentation that would have permitted them to fund.
16:28:21
3
not our case.
16:28:22
4
16:28:25
5
know, we can assume here that Fontainebleau, you know, was at
16:28:30
6
least filing routine documents that were saying that the thing
16:28:35
7
was in balance, for example.
16:28:36
8
16:28:40
9
16:28:45
10
information out there that it can't and should not be permitted
16:28:50
11
to ignore.
16:28:51
12
16:28:55
13
from Page 3.
16:29:00
14
say:
16:29:06
15
default under the disbursement agreement concerning the
16:29:08
16
allegedly Lehman defaults.
16:29:14
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was permitted to rely on, and indeed could not disregard,
16:29:17
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Fontainebleau's certification as to the satisfaction of the
16:29:22
19
disbursement agent's conditions precedent to funding."
16:29:25
20
16:29:27
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allegation that there was such a certification, but they're flat
16:29:32
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wrong about the description of the complaint.
16:29:36
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specifically says that you were on notice of a default because
16:29:40
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we sent it to you.
16:29:43
25
That's
You know, for purposes of this discussion only, you
What happens here is what happens when Bank of America
is on notice and it's true that there is material adverse
Let me read from the reply brief of Bank of America
The second full paragraph about halfway down they
"There's no allegation that BANA ever received a notice of
In the absence of such notice, BANA
A little footnote there:
MR. CANTOR:
We didn't make that
The complaint
Well, there's several problems with that.
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 48 of 63
Oral Argument
48
16:29:46
1
First of all, all they allege in the complaint is that letters
16:29:49
2
were sent.
16:29:53
3
describe the letters in any detail.
16:29:56
4
them.
16:29:59
5
16:30:02
6
16:30:03
7
16:30:05
8
they try to conflate all of the different roles that BofA had in
16:30:11
9
this transaction and, admittedly, they had multiple roles.
16:30:15
10
16:30:19
11
states that knowledge that BofA has in one context is not
16:30:26
12
imputed to it in another context.
16:30:30
13
a letter to Bank of American as lender or Bank of America as
16:30:31
14
bank agent and said, "Hey, did you hear about the Lehman
16:30:34
15
default," that's not notice to Bank of America as disbursement
16:30:37
16
agent.
16:30:38
17
16:30:41
18
believe it to be, the parties specifically decided that the
16:30:47
19
disbursement agent, whether it be BofA or somebody else, was not
16:30:52
20
going to be burdened with that issue of whether there were
16:30:56
21
defaults or not.
16:31:02
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agent shall be protected in acting upon information that it
16:31:07
23
receives from Fontainebleau; that notwithstanding anything else
16:31:11
24
in the agreement to the contrary that in performing its duties,
16:31:16
25
including approving advance requests, disbursement agent shall
They don't say whom they were sent to.
They don't
They certainly don't attach
The issue here is not --
THE COURT:
Well, how detailed do we have to get at
this stage?
MR. CANTOR:
Well, it's important, Your Honor, because
But there is a specific provision in the contracts that
And so therefore if they sent
And in any event, as remarkable as plaintiffs seem to
9.3.2 makes it clear that the disbursement
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 49 of 63
Oral Argument
49
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1
be entitled to rely on certifications from the project entities.
16:31:24
2
They want to read into that some notion --
16:31:27
3
THE COURT:
16:31:30
4
because I asked about the issue of whether there was
16:31:35
5
certification of nondefault.
16:31:39
6
Fontainebleau had to submit along with its request?
16:31:42
7
16:31:44
8
establish that we breached our obligations, they have to
16:31:48
9
plead -- and they have not -- that Fontainebleau failed to
16:31:52
10
certify that there was compliance and we went ahead and issued a
16:31:59
11
confirmation notice anyway.
16:32:01
12
They don't allege that, so they have not properly
16:32:03
13
alleged a breach by Bank of America as disbursement agent.
16:32:09
14
THE COURT:
16:32:13
15
technical arguments.
16:32:27
16
difficult because the matters alleged, the two breaches, I mean,
16:32:29
17
Lehman and, what was it, Nevada Bank --
16:32:32
18
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:32:34
19
THE COURT:
16:32:37
20
16:32:41
21
MR. CANTOR:
16:32:43
22
THE COURT:
16:32:49
23
16:32:56
24
16:32:58
25
So I'm going around in circles a little bit
Isn't that something that
Yes, Your Honor.
MR. CANTOR:
In order for them to
I understand a lot of this comes down to
I'm going to back off for a moment.
It's
Yes.
-- were known to the plaintiffs and Bank of
America and everybody else.
Arguably, Your Honor, there were other -So how could Fontainebleau certify there
was no default when those two issues were clearly on the table?
MR. CANTOR:
I don't know.
Fontainebleau.
May 7, 2010
I can't speak for
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 50 of 63
Oral Argument
50
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16:33:03
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is whether in order for your side, your complaint, is that an
16:33:06
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essential allegation, that in addition to knowledge there was
16:33:13
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no certification of nondefault.
16:33:16
5
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:33:18
6
THE COURT:
16:33:20
7
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:33:22
8
that we're going to stand on is:
16:33:27
9
of America as bank agent -- let's draw a circle around it -- as
16:33:32
10
16:33:37
11
16:33:39
THE COURT:
Well, that's what I'm struggling with here,
No, Your Honor.
That's where I'm struggling.
The case that we've alleged and the one
What is the obligation of Bank
bank agent when it knows that that certification is false?
Okay.
I understand your position because
12
you're at a pleading stage.
This is something that may be more
16:33:43
13
appropriate at a summary judgment argument on their side of the
16:33:46
14
equation.
16:33:52
15
of one means or another, I'm not sure they have to.
16:33:59
16
16:34:02
17
they might have wanted to plead, and we would have moved against
16:34:05
18
it and dealt with it.
16:34:07
19
America as disbursement agent should not have approved advance
16:34:11
20
requests or should have issued stop funding notices.
16:34:15
21
different than what Bank of America as bank agent should have
16:34:18
22
done.
16:34:18
23
16:34:22
24
you can't conflate them and place Bank of America as
16:34:25
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disbursement agent for which it was paid not by the lenders but
THE COURT:
You're arguing they knew.
MR. CANTOR:
Whether they knew because
That's an interesting claim and one that
But what they pled is that Bank of
These are divided.
That's
These positions are divided up, and
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 51 of 63
Oral Argument
51
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1
by the borrower a paltry sum and say that it's going to be
16:34:34
2
responsible for a billion eight in financing if it wrongly
16:34:38
3
approves an advance request when the language of the contract is
16:34:42
4
so clear that all it was doing was checking boxes and making
16:34:45
5
sure that documents were attached.
16:34:47
6
16:34:51
7
agent under the credit agreement for not taking action?
16:34:54
8
know, but that's not what they've pled here.
16:34:58
9
the complaints.
16:35:02
10
specifically about approving advance requests and failing to
16:35:09
11
issue stop funding notices.
16:35:15
12
the Aurelius complaint.
16:35:19
13
it's in the third claim.
16:35:20
14
16:35:24
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pled, and it's sufficiently different that it doesn't even come
16:35:27
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within the normal rules about reading a pleading broadly and
16:35:31
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allowing them to state any claim.
16:35:34
18
against a difficult entity.
16:35:35
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It so happens in this case that BofA had multiple
16:35:40
20
roles, but they've asserted a claim against the disbursing
16:35:42
21
agent.
16:35:44
22
to plead a claim against the bank agent, well, they had a chance
16:35:47
23
to do that and they didn't.
16:35:48
24
THE COURT:
16:35:51
25
MR. HENNIGAN:
Do they have a claim against Bank of America as bank
I don't
It's clear from
Paragraph 176 of the Avenue complaint talks
The same is truth with respect to
I don't have specific paragraph now but
They're now arguing a different claim than the one they
It's a different claim
They've failed to plead it as such.
Anything else.
If they want to try
Any last points?
Your Honor, I think he's confusing
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 52 of 63
Oral Argument
52
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1
complaints.
In our complaint, the Avenue complaint, there is no
16:35:58
2
allegation that Bank of America failed to perform its
16:36:02
3
responsibilities as disbursement agent.
16:36:04
4
that they were both the bank agent and the disbursement agent.
16:36:08
5
16:36:12
6
responsibilities throughout.
16:36:15
7
You know, I don't want, you know, the power of the argument here
16:36:19
8
to change the words on the page.
16:36:23
9
breached its responsibilities.
16:36:25
10
16:36:29
11
amount of time trying to figure out this metaphysical difference
16:36:33
12
between the Bank of America as disbursement agent and the Bank
16:36:35
13
of America as bank agent and the Bank of America as funding
16:36:39
14
agent.
16:36:40
15
16:36:43
16
16:36:46
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THE COURT:
16:36:48
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MR. HENNIGAN:
19
THE COURT:
16:36:52
20
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:36:54
21
THE COURT:
16:36:56
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MR. HENNIGAN:
16:36:58
23
you get knowledge in one capacity and not in another capacity if
16:37:01
24
you're the same person.
16:37:03
25
We very clearly allege
We then allege that Bank of America failed in its
You know, that's what we pleaded.
We pleaded Bank of America
Now, I have to tell you something.
I've spent a fair
You know, I don't know how that works.
You know, I'd kind of understand if they had told me
that their Milan branch --
THE COURT:
Were they a draw lender, too?
Yes, they were.
Okay.
No, no.
They were a revolving lender.
They were a revolving lender.
Okay.
So I don't know understand exactly how
Well, I mean, part of the problem, too, is
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 53 of 63
Oral Argument
53
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1
Bank of America as revolving lender says, "Well, we knew there
16:37:12
2
were defaults which is one of the reasons why we didn't fund
16:37:17
3
Fontainebleau, and that's why we shouldn't be subject to any
16:37:20
4
liability to them."
16:37:21
5
16:37:23
6
16:37:25
7
THE COURT:
16:37:27
8
half in Bank of America or --
16:37:29
9
MR. CANTOR:
16:37:31
10
to read the documents and take their words as they are written,
16:37:35
11
not as they are characterized by counsel.
16:37:38
12
respect to advance requests and stop funding notices is not
16:37:43
13
knowledge, it's notice.
16:37:50
14
BofA as disbursement agent received a notice.
16:37:54
15
THE COURT:
16:37:55
16
MR. CANTOR:
16:37:55
17
16:37:56
18
THE COURT:
16:37:57
19
MR. CANTOR:
16:38:02
20
THE COURT:
16:38:07
21
16:38:07
22
16:38:08
23
16:38:09
24
THE COURT:
16:38:11
25
MR. CANTOR:
MR. CANTOR:
That is why, Your Honor, it is important
to read -So does one half communicate with the other
But, Your Honor, that's why it's important
All right.
The issue here with
The question is whether
From whom?
From the bank agent.
But the reason why
it's important that they --
division?
From whom?
From Bank of America as bank agent.
So one division sends a notice to the other
Is that what you're saying?
MR. CANTOR:
The reason that would be important, Your
Honor, is because if you look -Is that what you're saying?
They would need to paper it correctly.
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 54 of 63
Oral Argument
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It's not enough to assume that someone told someone else.
They
16:38:17
2
would need to paper it.
16:38:18
3
16:38:21
4
as some people may think it sounds, is because if you look at
16:38:25
5
2.5.1, Bank of America as disbursement agent is then supposed to
16:38:29
6
provide a copy of that notice of default to Fontainebleau when
16:38:33
7
it issues a stop funding notice to Fontainebleau saying we're
16:38:36
8
not giving you the money that you want.
16:38:38
9
16:38:41
10
provide that notice to Fontainebleau.
16:38:45
11
me, by the way, just before I move --
16:38:50
12
16:38:52
13
16:38:53
14
16:38:57
15
me make sure I'm looking at -- well, I'm sorry.
16:39:01
16
other firm's complaints.
16:39:07
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16:39:13
18
16:39:16
19
16:39:20
20
2008, and continuing through the March 25 Advance Request,
16:39:24
21
BofA materially breached its duties under the Disbursement
16:39:29
22
Agreement by improperly approving Advance Requests that
16:39:32
23
failed to meet one or more of the conditions precedent under
16:39:36
24
§ 3.3 of the Disbursement Agreement, improperly issuing
16:39:41
25
Advance Confirmation Notices, improperly failing to issue
Your Honor, the reason that's important, as ridiculous
If they don't receive the notice, then they can't
THE COURT:
Again, Your Honor, let
We're going to have to wrap up in a few
minutes.
MR. CANTOR:
Yeah.
The complaint, Paragraph 154 -- let
That's the
Paragraph 176 of the Hennigan, Bennett & Dorman
complaint says that, beginning in Paragraph 176:
"Beginning with Advance Requests made in September
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 55 of 63
Oral Argument
55
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Stop Funding Notices."
16:39:43
2
Your Honor, those --
16:39:46
3
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:39:47
4
MR. CANTOR:
16:39:50
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16:39:53
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16:39:57
7
16:40:00
8
16:40:05
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16:40:09
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16:40:11
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16:40:16
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the disbursement agent which in 2.4.6, I said, provides that
16:40:20
13
when they get this advance confirmation notice, they shall fund.
16:40:24
14
So for them to say that their allegations are not about BofA in
16:40:29
15
its role as the disbursement agent is totally contrary to
16:40:33
16
Paragraph 176.
16:40:36
17
obligation to issue Advance Confirmation Notices, Stop Funding
16:40:38
18
Notices, and approve Advance Requests.
16:40:40
19
16:40:43
20
16:40:45
21
MR. HEATON:
16:40:47
22
THE COURT:
16:40:48
23
MR. HEATON:
16:40:50
24
Aurelius complaint at Paragraph 152.
16:40:57
25
its obligation as bank agent, (administrative agent), and/or
Can we finish the sentence?
Let me finish it!
Let's see.
Where did I
leave off?
"And improperly disbursing funds from the Bank Proceeds
Account pursuant to such deficient Advance Requests."
Your Honor, the first three of those are
responsibilities of the disbursement agent.
They are not
responsibilities of the bank agent.
The final one flows from the notice that they get from
It's only the disbursement agent that has the
THE COURT:
I can't wait to hear this argument in front
of a jury.
Your Honor, may I have ten seconds?
Just last words.
Very last, just to this point, the
May 7, 2010
BofA's failure to fulfill
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 56 of 63
Oral Argument
56
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disbursement agent by approving Advance Requests constitutes a
16:41:03
2
material breach of its obligations under the disbursement
16:41:07
3
agreement.
16:41:08
4
16:41:12
5
both bank agent and disbursement agent is belied by just going
16:41:16
6
back and reading these allegations, Your Honor.
16:41:18
7
16:41:21
8
clear that the bank agent doesn't approve advance requests.
16:41:24
9
they could allege whatever they want about the bank agent but if
16:41:27
10
it's not an obligation in the contract, it doesn't establish a
16:41:31
11
breach.
16:41:31
12
16:41:33
13
16:41:35
14
MR. HENNIGAN:
16:41:35
15
THE COURT:
16:41:37
16
through some of these matters, but I appreciate all work that
16:41:40
17
you've done on it.
16:41:41
18
16:41:45
19
The idea that we don't allege breaches of duties as
And, Your Honor, the contract is crystal
MR. CANTOR:
All right.
THE COURT:
So
Thank you for your appearances
today.
Thank you, Your Honor.
It's going to take me a little time to work
Have a nice weekend.
MR. HEATON:
Thank you very much, Your Honor.
[The proceedings conclude at 4:41 p.m., 5/7/10.]
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May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 57 of 63
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CERTIFICATE
I hereby certify that the foregoing is an accurate transcription of the
proceedings in the above-entitled matter.
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10
________________
05.08.10
DATE
______________________________________
JOSEPH A. MILLIKAN, RPR-CM-NSC-FCRR
Official United States Court Reporter
Federally Certified Realtime Reporter
Wilkie D. Ferguson, Jr., United States Courthouse
400 North Miami Avenue, Suite 11-1
Miami, FL 33128
305.523.5588
(Fax) 305.523.5589
jamillikan@aol.com
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Quality Assurance by Proximity Linguibase Technologies
May 7, 2010
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 58 of 63
58
A
Aaron 2:12 6:4
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above-entitled 57:3
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address 12:16 21:3 22:8 25:2 39:15
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45:3 48:25 50:19 51:3,10 53:12
54:19,20,22,2 5 55:7,13,17,1 8 56:1,8
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affecting 45:7
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already 21:12,16 22:1,5 23:1,11 33:5
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anthony.paccione@ kattenlaw.com
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May 7, 2010
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Capital 1:20 2:8 4:13 5:19 6:2
carefully 37:1
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charge 23:14
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chosen 8:24 41:8
circle 50:9
circles 49:3
circuit 7:3,4,15
circuit's 6:25
circumstances 39:9 41:6
citation 9:3,6 16:19
CITATIONS 3:19
cite 9:20 16:8 31:16
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cited 14:2 39:7
cites 27:23
claim 14:10 15:18 20:22 22:1 26:6
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clearly 19:11 22:18,22 24:17 32:25
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cohesive 38:7
colloquial 8:3
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communication 29:4 39:1
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complaints 6:20 28:23 30:9 51:9 52:1
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complete 19:19,21
completeness 34:22 41:5
complex 20:16 36:6 42:9
complexity 11:1
compliance 34:23 41:7 49:10
components 39:4
conceded 26:7,10
concern 20:21
concerning 45:10 47:15
conclude 37:13 56:19
concurrently 45:4
condition 45:2,12
conditional 39:2
conditionally 39:12
conditioned 45:1
conditions 27:25 34:12 35:3 37:1,6,13
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conduct 30:24 34:21 35:8 41:4
confess 10:17
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consideration 12:24 13:1 14:8
considerations 13:12
consistent 9:19
constitutes 56:1
constitutional 8:10,12
contact 30:1
contained 34:11
contemplated 43:11 45:8
CONTENTS 3:14
context 22:19 25:15 48:11,12
contexts 14:20 15:2
continue 12:10
continued 19:25
continuing 54:20
contract 1:6 7:17,18,18,2 5 8:4,6,7,10
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contracting 8:7
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contrast 14:19 36:13
control 39:16
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controversy 8:5
copy 41:23 54:6
corners 18:23 21:21 23:8 32:2
Corp 6:2
Corporation 6:15
correct 10:5
corrected 28:24
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costs 28:1
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counsel 4:18 35:22 39:25 41:9 44:20
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create 16:10
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DANIEL 2:8
date 27:25 43:7,9 45:6 57:6
dated 39:22
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dcantor@omm.com 2:10
deal 10:8,25 22:23 44:2
dealing 15:11 44:13
dealings 30:14
deals 37:23 44:3
dealt 22:4 50:18
decided 48:18
deciding 18:11
decision 28:19 31:12,23 38:16
decisions 32:21
declaratory 39:8
default 26:11,16,18 27:7,10 39:3,24
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defaults 27:17 38:3,4,15,1 9 40:11
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defendant 6:5
defendants 2:1 6:19 16:8,19,25
defense 33:22
deficient 55:7
defined 24:19
definition 23:21
definitions 21:24
delay 14:18 15:5,14 19:8 22:12,13,20
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demand 38:9
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describe 35:18 37:9 48:3
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description 18:7,8 47:22
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detailed 42:10 48:5
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determine 42:22
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differ 32:13,13
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dillmank@bhdlawyers.com 1:18
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disclosed 45:10
discovery 32:5
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discussed 19:15
discussion 12:9 47:4
dismiss 6:20 33:13
dispersal 39:21
disposed 22:5
dispute 12:25 14:6
disputes 10:3
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DISTRICT 1:1,1,10
divided 50:23,23
division 1:2 53:20,21
Docket 6:21 33:14
document 10:13 17:17 36:1,2,6 40:25
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documentation 34:14 42:23 47:2
documents 11:1 34:11,11,22 42:10,10
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May 7, 2010
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enforce 8:6,25 10:2 13:3,21 14:1,7
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entities 41:7 49:1
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establish 49:8 56:10
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event 10:4 26:11,15 48:17
events 26:18
ever 24:16 43:22 44:11 47:14
every 16:2 19:19 33:25
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everybody's 6:23 31:19
evidence 31:17,20
exact 18:15
exactly 14:21 27:15 52:22
exalting 20:18
examine 36:1
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except 25:12
exclude 16:23
excuse 20:13
execute 43:5
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exhaustion 45:4
exhibit 29:3,25 41:24,24
existence 10:1 26:17
exists 12:4
expectations 19:2
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expert 30:23 31:6
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express 16:4,9,17 17:20
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facility 15:13
fact 7:24 13:4,7,16 18:12 30:17,23
34:14 36:15,17,21 37:18 38:24 41:2
41:3
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facts 18:10 41:6
failed 35:13 38:8 46:10,14,24 49:9
51:21 52:2,5 54:23
failing 51:10 54:25
fails 26:6 35:9
failure 20:14 55:24
fair 12:4,5 28:21 30:15 31:7,9 52:10
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faith 40:13
false 13:16 16:19 18:1 40:6 50:10
far 37:8 46:4
fashion 15:10
Fax 1:17,23 2:5,14,19,2 3 3:3,8 57:9
federal 7:11
Federally 3:7 57:7
feel 25:21 33:16
feels 33:4
fees 13:13
Ferguson 57:8
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Figueroa 1:16
figure 32:5 52:11
filing 47:6
final 15:7 55:11
finance 43:7
financing 51:2
finish 55:3,4
firm's 54:16
first 4:2 12:15 22:25 40:18,20 44:20
46:19 48:1 55:8
Fitzgerald 2:3 4:16 5:23
FL 2:23 3:2,8 57:9
flat 47:21
fleshed 23:20 33:16
flip 42:25
FLORIDA 1:1,5
flourishes 33:23
flow 25:4 42:12
flows 55:11
focus 17:5 26:3
focusing 19:4
followed 42:11,12,16 43:16
following 43:19
follows 44:23
Fontainebleau 1:5 12:22,25 13:11,11
15:11 20:10,12,13,1 5 21:13 26:12
34:10,17,23 35:2,5 41:13,18,22
42:3,18 46:4,9,14,1 5 47:5 48:23
49:6,9,22,2 5 53:3 54:6,7,10
Fontainebleau's 12:20 21:17 47:18
footnote 27:8 47:20
force 40:1,12
foregoing 57:2
forever 40:10
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45:18,22
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forwarded 28:19
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frankly 22:16
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9:7,21 10:24 12:7 15:4 16:24 17:5
18:18 22:20 28:16 29:4 31:10 32:22
32:25 33:6,10,18 35:2,5,6 37:3,5
38:9 39:11,20 40:4,8 42:12 45:3,23
46:4 47:12,13 48:23 49:1 51:8
53:15,16,18,1 9 55:6,11,11
front 4:7 19:6 55:19
fulfill 55:24
fulfilled 45:23
full 22:25 24:17 25:3,6,8 31:21,22
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function 39:20
functioning 37:10
fund 3:1 6:17 12:20 19:10,10 20:1
28:11 30:8,18 31:4,11,18,2 2 32:24
38:8,15,18,2 5 39:19 42:7 47:2 53:2
55:13
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32:14,23 33:1 39:12
funding 14:10 15:17 19:16 20:16
28:14 30:3 31:19 34:12,16 37:4
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gets 15:25 44:19
getting 7:2
give 8:6 9:6 27:15,17,22
given 7:4 16:5 19:4 24:19 26:21 27:7
28:5
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giving 13:3 54:8
glaringly 15:3
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going 4:20 15:13,16,17 19:1,3 20:5
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gone 11:23
gonna 32:1
good 4:1,3,8,15 5:13,25 6:4,16 26:20
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hearing 40:21
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23:13 25:3,13 30:20 31:9 33:11
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help 38:12
helpful 6:22
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39:18 40:17 44:18 46:17,19,23
49:18 50:5,7 51:25 52:18,20,22
54:17 55:3 56:14
Hennigan's 21:10
hennigan@hbdlawyers.com 1:18
hereof 45:6
Heritage 36:10
Herman 1:21
Hey 48:14
Highland 29:15,18
hoc 29:7,9,21 30:6 31:4,12,13
hold 24:10
holder 24:2
holding 6:2
Honor 4:3,8,11,15,18,2 1 5:1,13,17,22
5:25 6:4,7,13 7:13 8:2,9,21 9:11
10:6,13,17,2 0 11:6,7,16,2 3 12:5,17
14:3,13,16 15:6,10,18,2 5 16:7,8
17:19 18:6 19:13 20:4 21:8,12,16
22:1,4,8,14,1 6 23:1,4,13 24:13,23
25:4,14,23 26:22 27:12 28:22 29:14
29:16,23 30:9,20,22 32:6,15,16,17
33:2,6,11,1 7 34:18 35:6,9,10 38:5
38:18 40:15 41:15,21 42:5,8,20
43:25 44:18 45:15 46:5,8 48:7 49:7
49:21 50:5 51:25 53:5,9,23 54:3,10
55:2,8,21 56:6,7,14,18
HONORABLE 1:9
Honor's 34:6
HSH 2:12 6:5
Hubbard 1:22
hurdle 9:23
I
idea 16:25 22:11 31:19 56:4
identical 13:18,18 18:15
identify 13:2,22
ignore 47:11
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imagine 7:8
immediately 30:1
impliedly 13:5
important 12:2 16:24 42:8 46:13,16
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importantly 21:22 22:23 26:25 29:23
impose 5:2
improper 44:11
improperly 54:22,24,25 55:6
imputed 48:12
incidental 12:13
included 29:10
including 16:18 24:18 48:25
inconsistent 33:24 45:9
incorporated 28:12
increased 28:1
indeed 23:7 24:21 26:7,13,16 38:5
47:17
independent 10:9 28:14 34:21 38:16
41:4
independently 28:21 30:7
indicate 40:5
indicates 20:11
individual 22:15
inescapable 24:22
infer 31:10
information 45:6,10,14 46:25 47:10
48:22
informed 38:14
initial 15:4 19:7
injury 7:24 8:5 9:23
innocently 9:13
instance 43:2
insure 19:20
intended 12:13
intercredit 17:17
intercreditor 10:14 11:4
interest 7:24 29:20
interesting 40:18 50:16
interim 40:11
interlender 10:9 11:4,8 17:18
interlocutory 21:18
interpret 24:22 25:15
interpretation 22:11 29:22
interpreting 9:18
interrelatedness 31:14
introduced 18:13
investigate 41:6
investigation 34:21 41:5
investors 40:4
invite 33:15
in-balance 19:15
issue 7:5,9,17,25 8:10,15,20,21,2 3 9:1
9:2,5,8 11:10,21 12:3 15:21 20:24
30:12 39:6 44:4 48:4,20 49:4 51:11
53:11 54:25 55:17
issued 26:9,13 49:10 50:20
issues 6:24 7:11,12 12:12 17:16 20:21
25:22 28:2 33:9 39:15 49:23 54:7
issuing 43:20 54:24
items 32:10 41:6
IV 1:15
i.e 13:10
J
J 1:15,21
May 7, 2010
James 1:20 4:11 5:17
jamillikan@aol.com 3:9 57:10
jb.heaton@bartlit-beck.com 1:23
joinder 16:10 17:20
joint 4:20 6:20 16:1,10,15,1 7 17:1,3,7
17:21,23
jointly 18:20
JOSEPH 3:6 57:6
JP 2:4 4:17 5:23
Jr 2:21 57:8
JUDGE 1:10
judgment 21:17 50:13
juncture 30:4
Jurisprudence 16:8,20
jury 55:20
just 4:6,6 5:5,11 7:10 9:9,12,21 10:19
11:9 14:13,16 15:6 16:13 21:9 23:1
23:6,17,21 24:13 25:3,24 27:12,22
31:6 32:15 33:19 35:24 42:13 54:11
55:22,23 56:5
K
Katten 2:17 6:8,12
Kaye 2:12 6:5
keeps 39:20
kind 7:25 8:17 37:9 47:1 52:15
kinds 11:13
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knew 19:4 31:21 38:14 50:14,14 53:1
knit 19:24 38:7
know 4:21,22 7:9 8:16,25 9:8,20,25
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27:9,15 29:17 30:17,22 31:25 32:1
32:12,16 38:20 39:13,16 41:20 47:4
47:5,5 49:24 51:8 52:6,7,7,14,14,15
52:22
knowledge 48:11 50:3 52:23 53:13
known 31:22 49:19
knows 10:20 50:10
L
L 2:8,17
laden 41:8
laid 23:5 26:22 40:17
language 22:24 51:3
LAS 1:5
last 15:11 33:22 51:24 55:22,23
late 17:15
later 41:3
law 7:2,5,6,9,11,12,18,19,1 9 8:21 9:1,9
10:4 12:7,12 13:23 14:8 17:4,8,19
18:1 20:5,15 26:7,25 28:1,2
laying 11:18
least 29:17 38:3 47:6
leave 38:22 55:5
left 11:21 19:19
legal 8:11 39:25
legally 7:24
Lehman 36:18 40:1,2,8 47:16 48:14
49:17
lend 12:25 16:25 17:13 18:22 19:23
20:9,12,14
lender 13:9 17:11 19:22 22:15 23:23
23:23,25 24:1,1,15 25:11 32:20
48:13 52:17,20,21 53:1
lenders 6:20 8:14,24 9:15 10:19,21
11:3,9,9 12:18,23,24,2 5 13:2,5,13
13:14,18 14:5,16,22 15:7,9,15 17:1
17:8,12 18:21 19:3,4,7,9,9,2 5 20:9
20:12,12,22 21:2,10 25:8 26:9
28:10,14,18 29:5,7,8,10,10,11,25
30:5,24 31:5,11 32:9,14 33:13,20
33:22 37:19 40:3,9 42:19 50:25
lending 12:22 13:3,20 15:9 18:8,19
36:18 38:7 42:9
lengthy 42:10,10
let 5:2,10,20 10:7 15:19 21:4 25:23
28:6 30:12 33:12 37:22 40:16 42:17
44:20 45:2 46:12 47:12 54:10,14
55:4
letter 14:23 35:25 48:13
letters 48:1,3
let's 6:24 25:20 44:18,24 50:9 55:4
Lexington 2:4
liability 53:4
life 10:25
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 117 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 61 of 63
61
light 24:9
like 6:19,21 7:10 11:1,5 12:1 14:3
20:25 22:4 23:14 30:21 31:15 32:1
32:9 35:25 38:12 39:7
likely 38:10
limit 33:25
limitations 37:8
limited 34:19
line 14:24 23:15 33:22
listen 35:24
Listening 35:11
LITIGATION 1:6
little 47:20 49:3 56:15
LLP 1:16 2:3,8,12,17 3:1
loan 13:19 14:24 22:13,15 23:15,18,24
24:3,5,14 25:5,11,11 29:6,10,18
32:24 45:7 46:15
loans 13:10,13 14:18,19 15:4,5,14,17
20:1 22:12,21 23:1 24:17 38:4
longer 38:23
look 10:11,18 11:12 12:2 13:7 14:17
17:9 32:1 36:9,10 42:1,7,15 44:2
53:23 54:4
looked 6:25 11:16,24 18:11
looking 7:3 18:7 19:25 21:19,20,22
27:2,14,21 45:17 54:15
Los 1:17
lot 21:14 40:15 49:14
Ltd 1:15,20
Lynch 2:8 4:19 6:2 40:5
M
M 3:1
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made 13:14 20:6 21:18 22:21 26:2
28:13,17,18 40:3,6 43:6 45:4 46:9
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magic 18:17
main 22:10
maintain 14:9
maintaining 39:12
make 7:1 9:17 13:10 14:21 15:2,19
22:16 23:23 24:15 25:24 27:13
28:15 30:2 31:20 32:20 34:8,9 37:3
37:5,12 38:16 39:4 40:11 43:10
45:20 46:11,14 47:20 54:15
makes 20:7 25:11,15 27:18 48:21
making 14:18 38:4 51:4
manner 24:22,23 45:9
many 8:22 13:17 35:15,19
March 12:21 20:23 28:9,23,25 29:1
32:18 54:20
Master 1:20,20 3:1 4:12,13 5:18 6:17
material 36:18 37:18 38:23,24 45:9
47:9 56:2
materially 46:22 54:21
matter 9:17 26:7 45:6,10 57:3
matters 10:24 21:1 49:16 56:16
may 1:6 4:1,22 7:16 10:17,18 13:18
14:13 15:6 19:13 24:8 31:5 32:15
44:9 50:12 54:4 55:21
maybe 28:2 41:11
McDermott 3:1 6:17
mean 13:25 16:2 21:23 22:14,14 24:8
26:1 27:10 31:6 39:13 40:23 46:15
49:16 52:25
meaning 21:19,20 25:10 41:8
meaningless 13:22
meanings 24:19
means 22:18,18,22 23:22 24:1,11 32:5
36:11,11,12 50:15
meant 9:14,24 23:2 24:4,14 40:23
41:2
mechanism 25:4 45:16
meet 54:23
member 29:18
members 29:12
merely 13:24 16:1
merit 23:7
Merrill 2:8 4:19 6:1 40:5
met 28:18 34:13 39:5
metaphysical 52:11
Miami 1:2,5 2:23 3:2,7,8 57:8,9
Michael 1:15 4:3,8 5:14 19:13 35:10
microphone 4:5,7 6:10
microphones 5:12
might 46:23 50:17
Milan 52:16
MILLIKAN 3:6 57:6
million 28:24,25
mind 6:21 8:9
minds 32:13
mine 4:25
minutes 5:5 33:8 54:13
minutia 20:16
mischaracterized 18:10
mislabeled 9:13
misnomer 7:16
missed 41:12 43:22
missing 46:22
Mitsui 2:21 6:15
model 41:24
moment 37:10 49:15
money 20:10,14 54:8
monies 24:16 25:6 39:5
months 36:20
more 7:16 8:3 12:6 22:23 26:25 33:16
40:9 50:12 54:23
Morgan 2:4 4:17 5:24
morning 36:10
mortgage 37:3,4 45:5
most 21:21 28:2,10 34:6 36:23
motion 4:19,20 15:12 21:17 25:22
29:2,17 33:4,7,13
motions 6:20 29:4
move 54:11
moved 50:17
Moving 20:20
Mowing 3:21
much 41:8 56:18
Muchin 2:17 6:8,12
multibillion 38:11
multilateral 8:22
multiparty 8:22 13:25
multiple 48:9 51:19
must 16:17
mutual 13:21,23
mutually 18:13
Myers 2:8 6:1 7:14 33:18
N
Nachtwey 1:20 4:11 5:18
narrow 37:9
nature 7:4 34:19
near 13:18
necessarily 40:10
necessary 16:4,10 17:21 25:21 34:11
45:24
need 4:5 6:9 7:15 16:15 18:17 23:4
28:4 32:4 33:4 53:25 54:2
needed 21:1 41:2 43:23
needs 33:16
Nevada 49:17
never 25:9
new 2:4,9,13,18 7:2,5,19 10:4 12:12
13:23 16:8,19 17:3,7,19 21:14 22:1
22:7
next 20:20 39:20 44:15
nice 33:23 56:17
nobody 32:23
nondefault 49:5 50:4
none 14:1 30:8,9
nonetheless 14:14
Nordbank 2:12 6:6
normal 51:16
North 3:7 57:8
nothing 20:10 27:6 33:6 39:10
notice 22:21 26:4,4,9,12,1 9 27:3,3,4,5
27:7,10,11,15,17,22,2 5 28:4,9,24
29:6 30:10 31:24 32:18 34:16 36:19
37:19,24 38:1 40:8 43:5,11 44:4
46:24 47:9,14,16,2 3 48:15 49:11
53:13,14,20 54:6,7,9,10 55:11,13
notices 12:21 20:23 28:3 43:21 50:20
51:11 53:12 54:25 55:1,17,18
notion 49:2
notwithstanding 34:24 41:3 48:23
Now's 15:22
number 21:12 22:17 26:2
numerous 42:2
NY 2:4,9,13,18
N.E 3:21
N.Y 3:21
O
obligated 20:1 32:20
obligates 25:14
obligation 11:14 13:10 16:10,16,25
17:2 18:8,9 23:23 27:17 34:9 38:18
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55:17,25 56:10
obligations 11:5,18 12:14 13:22,23
18:21 19:10,24 34:1,20 35:14 37:2
38:17 43:13 44:25 49:8 56:2
obtain 42:18
obviously 10:22 23:8 25:10 28:2
occur 27:17
occurrence 27:18
October 39:23
odd 40:22 41:8
off 49:15 55:5
office 4:22
OFFICER 5:9
official 3:6 31:13 57:7
Okay 4:25 9:3 10:3,7,24 11:25 12:9
30:4 50:11 52:19,21
once 11:21 31:23
one 8:7,24 10:3 13:19 14:24 15:2,7
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28:6 29:15,17 31:17,22 35:12 36:18
37:21 38:5,7 39:24 40:8 41:17
42:17 43:22 44:24 46:19 48:11 50:7
50:15,16 51:14 52:23 53:2,7,20
54:23 55:11
ones 23:7
only 12:22 17:11 21:23 22:10,14 26:2
29:18 37:16 42:23 47:4 55:16
operational 30:2
opinion 9:6 23:17 32:4 39:25
opportunity 15:23 16:7 21:3 25:18
38:16
opposed 8:11 23:2 27:10
opposition 13:15 14:2 40:20 43:17
optimistically 35:22
oral 1:9 25:21 33:5,15
oranges 20:5
order 19:20,21 25:20 36:2 40:17 42:18
49:7 50:2
other 4:14 5:4 8:7 9:6 10:21 12:10
14:20,22,25 17:9,12,17 18:2 19:3,4
20:12 22:3 23:5 25:24 26:2 27:13
29:19 32:8 33:9 39:4 40:25 41:6,17
42:3 43:23 44:11 45:6,10,12 46:20
49:21 53:7,20 54:16
others 6:10 23:7
otherwise 9:4 26:11
ought 9:10
out 11:4,18 17:18 20:25 23:5,20 24:10
25:5,18 26:22 28:13 32:5 33:16
36:21 38:22 40:17 47:10 52:11
outside 18:23 28:7 29:3 30:21 31:25
32:2,2
outstanding 22:25 24:5,17
out-of-pocket 14:25 15:1
over 9:23 13:24 15:19 20:15,19 21:9
25:5 28:15
overall 10:8
overcome 25:10
overly 35:21
owed 17:5,6
own 4:19 26:16 32:20
o'clock 4:24
O'Melveny 2:8 6:1 7:13 33:18
P
Paccione 2:17 6:7,7,12,12
page 3:15,20 23:25,25 47:13 52:8
Pages 1:7
paid 50:25
Palenchar 1:21
paltry 51:1
paper 40:25 53:25 54:2
papers 13:15 15:8 23:6,11 26:10,22
27:9 29:2 33:5,19
paragraph 28:8 36:6,24 37:1 40:7
41:3 43:8 44:22 47:13 51:9,12
54:14,17,18 55:16,24
paragraphs 37:9
Park 2:13
parse 44:1
part 4:20 10:8 18:21,22 20:23 30:13
May 7, 2010
46:3,13 52:25
participated 10:25
particular 9:16 22:21
particularly 25:19 34:6 45:19
parties 8:7 9:22 11:19 14:21 15:2
18:14 24:4 27:9,14,21 48:18
partner 5:15
party 8:8 13:24 16:1 36:8 45:7
payment 40:3
people 16:18,18,24 32:7 54:4
perform 52:2
performance 17:6
performing 48:24
Perhaps 36:23
peril 38:10
permit 13:5 39:21
permitted 19:16 44:4 47:2,10,17
person 24:10 52:24
pertain 12:11
pertains 11:13
phase 19:19
phone 5:4
phrase 36:13
PH.D 1:20
pick 5:4
place 7:14 8:9 50:24
places 22:3 35:19
plainly 37:15
plaintiff 38:13
plaintiffs 1:14 4:2,9,13 5:15,19 9:7
12:1,13 13:21 14:2,14 18:16 19:14
26:14,15 29:12,15,19 35:11 37:23
37:25 38:2 41:20 43:17 48:17 49:19
played 35:15
PLC 2:3,17
plead 44:11 49:9 51:21,22
pleaded 52:6,8
pleading 32:22 50:12 51:16
pleadings 26:16 28:7,17 32:2,16
please 4:7 5:5,10,12 6:19,24 40:4
pled 31:8 50:17,18 51:8,15
plural 22:18,19 24:20
point 12:15 15:7 16:1,8,15 17:6,9,20
19:8 24:10 25:4,18,24 28:6 33:4
36:21 39:14 41:17 55:23
pointed 20:25 26:23 27:8
points 6:22 21:5 25:20 35:23 51:24
portion 18:12 30:3
position 30:1,6,16,19,2 2 31:3 34:2,3
38:13 39:2 40:2 50:11
positions 25:19 50:23
possession 47:1
posting 29:6
power 52:7
precedent 37:1,7,13 43:1 44:21 45:2,2
45:13,17,22 47:19 54:23
precisely 10:16
predecessors 29:14 30:15 37:24,25
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Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 1 of 32
1
1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
MIAMI DIVISION
2
3
Case 09-2106-MDL-GOLD
4
IN RE:
5
6
FONTAINEBLEAU LAS VEGAS HOLDINGS, LLC,
et al.,
7
Debtors.
8
9
10
FONTAINEBLEAU LAS VEGAS
HOLDINGS, LLC, et al.,
COURTROOM 11-1
Plaintiffs,
11
MIAMI, FLORIDA
vs.
12
JANUARY 7, 2011
BANK OF AMERICA, N.A., et al.,
13
14
15
16
17
18
(Pages 1 - 32)
Defendants.
__________________________________________________________________
TRANSCRIPT OF ORAL ARGUMENT
BEFORE THE HONORABLE ALAN S. GOLD
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
__________________________________________________________________
APPEARANCES:
KIRK DILLMAN, ESQ.
Hennigan Bennett & Dorman LLP
865 S. Figuerora Street, Suite 2900
Los Angeles, CA 90017
213.694.1200
19
20
21
BRETT AMRON, ESQ.
Bast Amron, LLP
One Southeast Third Avenue, Suite 1440
Miami, FL 33131
305.379.7904
22
23
24
25
TOTAL ACCESS
NETWORK COURTROOM REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 2 of 32
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DANIEL CANTOR, ESQ.
O'Melveny & Myers, LLP
Times Square Tower
7 Times Square
New York, NY 10036
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3
212.326.2000
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CRAIG RASILE, ESQ.
Hunton & Williams
1111 Brickell Avenue, Suite 2500
Miami, FL 33131
305.810.2500
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7
8
DAVID WOLL, ESQ.
Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, LLP
425 Lexington Avenue
New York, NY 10017
10
212.455.3040
AARON RUBINSTEIN, ESQ.
Kaye Scholer, LLP
425 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10022
9
212.836.8000
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12
13
14
15
STEVEN MAHER, ESQ.
Shutts & Bowen
201 S. Biscayne Boulevard, Suite 1500
Miami, FL 33131
305.358.6300
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
REPORTED BY:
JOSEPH A. MILLIKAN, RPR-CM-NSC-FCRR
Official United States Court Reporter
Federally Certified Realtime Reporter
400 North Miami Avenue, Suite 11-1
Miami, FL 33128
305.523.5588
(Fax) 305.523.5589
jamillikan@aol.com
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January 7, 2011
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TABLE OF CONTENTS
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Reporter's Certificate ...................................... 32
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CITATIONS
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Lloyd Noland Foundation, Inc. versus Tenet Health
Care, 483 F.3d 773 .......................................... 17
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January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
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All rise.
The Honorable
09:59:12
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09:59:15
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09:59:18
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THE COURT:
09:59:41
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May I have appearances this morning on Case 09-2106.
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MR. DILLMAN:
09:59:49
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for the Nevada term lenders.
09:59:50
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MR. AMRON:
09:59:53
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behalf of plaintiffs ACP Master, Ltd. and Aurelius Capital
09:59:58
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Master, Ltd.
09:59:58
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THE COURT:
10:00:00
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MR. CANTOR:
10:00:03
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O'Melveny & Myers, on behalf of Bank of America, N.A. and
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Merrill Lynch Capital Corp.
10:00:10
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MR. RASILE:
10:00:12
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Hunton & Williams, also co-counsel with Mr. Cantor for Bank of
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America, N.A. and Merrill Lynch.
10:00:20
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10:00:23
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Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, for J. P. Morgan Chase Bank,
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Barclays, Royal Bank of Scotland and Deutsche Bank.
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THE COURT:
10:00:25
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MR. RUBINSTEIN:
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THE COURTROOM DEPUTY:
Alan S. Gold presiding.
MR. WOLL:
This Court is in session.
Good morning, everyone.
Please be seated.
Good morning, Your Honor.
Good morning, Your Honor.
All right.
Brett Amron on
Thank you.
Good morning, Your Honor.
Good morning, Your Honor.
Good morning, Your Honor.
All right.
Kirk Dillman
Dan Cantor,
Craig Rasile of
David Woll from
Thank you.
Good morning, Your Honor.
Aaron
Rubinstein from Kaye Scholer on behalf of HSH Nordbank.
MR. MAHER:
Your Honor, Steven Maher from Shutts &
Bowen here for Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation.
THE COURT:
Give me a moment.
January 7, 2011
There are some who are
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Oral Argument
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joining us by telephone but will not be participating through
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appearances.
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joined us.
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have had appearances from counsel here in court.
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joint motion for partial final judgment.
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start our discussions:
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benefit of arguing on the issue which directly concerns you that
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will be permitted to file an amicus brief -- it is discretionary
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with the appellate court -- and there is even less guarantee
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that we would be permitted to argue.
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even if those things were granted, an amicus simply doesn't have
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the same standing as a party to an appeal.
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argue, then there really isn't any reason for delay in terms of
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a 54(b) certification.
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we are going to be arguing and presenting our opinions to the
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Court, that everyone who is there, all arguments will be aired
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and there will be no reason not to have that be final and
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binding upon us.
All right.
Thank you.
Good morning to those who have
I'm not going to take appearances over the phone.
I
We are here this morning on the plaintiff term lenders'
So let me ask as we
Why would you not have the same type of
the trustee has already filed by way of filing amicus briefs?
MR. DILLMAN:
lenders.
Your Honor, Kirk Dillman for the term
I will be arguing on behalf of the term lenders today.
A couple of things:
One, there is no guarantee that we
The reality, however, is
But if we were permitted to file an amicus brief and
If we are going to be there anyway, if
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
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It is one of the benefits.
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of an MDL proceeding, to have a situation where all parties may
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air their views on the same issues before one Court at one time
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and hopefully get a final decision, so that is what we would
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hope for.
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primary ground had to do with standing, to make the argument, if
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you go 54(b), doesn't the Eleventh Circuit have to address that
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issue before letting you argue on the merits on the
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first answer, the short answer, is no, I don't believe so.
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Court can reach the conclusion on the fully drawn -- which it
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will have to reach no matter what, and if the Court agrees with
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this Court, that the failure to fund claims in our case were
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properly dismissed, the summary judgment was properly denied in
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the trustee's case, then the standing issue will never have to
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be reached.
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efficiencies compelling and would, in fact, sequence their
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deliberations in that manner.
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the fully drawn question that would not already be covered by
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the trustee and also any amicus brief that you file, assuming
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that you are permitted to do so?
THE COURT:
It is the primary benefit
But let me ask you this:
Because the
interpretation question?
MR. DILLMAN:
Your Honor, a couple of things.
The
The
We suspect that the Eleventh Circuit would find those
THE COURT:
What arguments would you envision making on
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
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Well, Your Honor, if we are permitted to
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file an amicus brief, we would make the arguments that we would
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make if we were an appellant, so we wouldn't be making any new
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or different arguments as an appellant.
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As I say as an appellant we have the virtue of having
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full standing to be there and also we have the finality of the
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decision.
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One thing that I should point out, Your Honor, is --
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THE COURT:
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if you go 54(b) instead of amicus, you might have the
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opportunity to stand up and make some additional oral argument?
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were permitted to argue, we would have the same opportunity to
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present to the Court; however, what we would not have is the
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finality.
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upon the Ninth and the Second Circuits these same issues.
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an important point that at least wasn't expressly made in our
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papers.
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appellate and we do not have finality, what is going to happen?
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At the end of this case, those issues will then be determined by
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the Court, by the jurisdiction in which the matter then resides.
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MR. DILLMAN:
MR. DILLMAN:
Is the real difference and practical effect
If we went 54(b) as opposed to amicus and
We would not have the standing and we would impose
Let me pause there for a moment because I think this is
If the trustee's motion is brought without us as an
These matters will be remanded to their home districts
upon the conclusion of pretrial proceedings.
January 7, 2011
When they are, we
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Oral Argument
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will go back to Nevada which is governed by the Ninth Circuit.
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The ACP plaintiffs will go back to New York, governed
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by the Second Circuit.
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judgment and at that point, the appeal of these issues by the
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term lenders will be had.
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case; the Second Circuit will in the Aurelius case.
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burdened two additional circuits with the exact same issues,
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facts and parties that could now be, with a 54(b) certification,
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has been delayed until sometime in February.
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delayed because there is an ongoing mediation with the Eleventh
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Circuit mediator.
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We have been told that, pending this motion, we are respectfully
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not invited.
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therefore have the other salutary effect not only of not
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imposing on additional districts these issues but on, perhaps,
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promoting a global settlement of these issues.
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THE COURT:
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MR. DILLMAN:
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except I have communications from the mediator to the effect
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that we have been disinvited.
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pending on other matters next week, and I believe the sort of
The trial will be held.
Who will hear that?
There will be a
The Ninth Circuit will in our
We have now
before the Eleventh Circuit.
I am told that the Eleventh Circuit briefing process
It has been
We have actually asked to be a part of that.
We think that the granting of 54(b) relief would
When is the mediation set?
Your Honor, I don't have that information
There is a mediation that is
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
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separate mediation or separate issues raised here, as far as I
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know -- and counsel across the aisle can comment -- but as far
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as I know, there hasn't been a date set for that continued
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mediation.
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moment and turn to the other side.
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are raised with regard to any additional appeals to other
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circuits and would it make sense if they are fully part of
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global mediation with the 54(b) partial final judgment?
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O'Melveny & Meyers.
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THE COURT:
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MR. CANTOR:
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respectfully, and let me explain why not, certainly with respect
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to the argument about involving the other circuits.
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because if, in fact, this case ultimately gets resolved, the
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disbursement agent agreement claims that are still remaining in
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the case between Bank of America and the term lenders gets
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resolved on summary judgment by Your Honor, that appeal would go
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to the Eleventh Circuit.
10:09:03
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So it is not even entirely clear that this case on an
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appellate level would end up in either the Ninth or the Second
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Circuit, but even if that were the case, Your Honor, quite
10:09:13
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frankly, that makes it even more clear why 54(b) relief is
THE COURT:
MR. CANTOR:
Let me interrupt your presentation for a
What about these points that
Thank you, Your Honor.
Dan Cantor from
Doesn't that make some sense?
It actually does not, Your Honor,
As an initial matter, it is a speculative argument
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
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inappropriate because there is going to be an appeal at the end
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of the litigation between the term lenders and Bank of America.
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anywhere close to this litigation knows that one side or the
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other will be appealing the ultimate outcome of that case.
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So if, in fact, that appeal is going to happen at all,
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it makes far more sense -- and this is what the second sentence
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of 54(b) is designed to accomplish -- and the basic policy of
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not having piecemeal appeals is designed to avoid where you
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would have a situation where the Ninth or the Second Circuit is
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going to have to learn all about this case anyways.
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shouldn't have them have to do it only for half the case.
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of theoretical possibilities, inconsistent ruling among the
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circuits?
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situation that would be something that you would prefer to
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avoid.
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would suspect that although they would not be bound by any
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determination by the Eleventh Circuit, they certainly would be
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well influenced by the fact that a panel has already considered
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these questions and ruled upon them.
I know that in my bones and anyone who has been
THE COURT:
MR. CANTOR:
You
What if you have, continuing our discussion
Obviously, Your Honor, that would be a
THE COURT:
Right, but that wouldn't benefit anybody,
MR. CANTOR:
It would not benefit anyone, although I
would it?
January 7, 2011
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But I think more fundamentally, Your Honor, what that
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argument reveals is a basic misunderstanding by the term lenders
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of what 54(b) is about.
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this issue or this argument, rather, on an issue-by-issue basis.
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The question is not how many appeals are there going to be on
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the fully drawn issue.
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there going to be in the case of term lenders versus revolving
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lenders.
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in that case and Rule 54(b), and all the Eleventh Circuit
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authority on Rule 54(b) make it clear that if you are going to
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have two separate appeals in a single case, one on an
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interlocutory basis and one at the end of the case, that the
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movant under 54(b) has to satisfy an extremely high burden in
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order to justify that relief.
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The Eleventh Circuit in the Eberhini case and in the
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Vann case has made it clear that the circumstances justifying
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54(b) relief are going to be encountered only rarely and that
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District Courts are supposed to be conservative in ruling on
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54(b) motions and that it is reserved for the unusual case where
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there is a pressing need on the part of the movant.
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Court called it the infrequent harsh case.
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case, that couldn't be further from what the term lenders are
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facing here.
It is not about -- you can't look at
The question is how many appeals are
The term lenders want there to be two different appeals
The Vann
Well, pressing need, unusual case, infrequent harsh
They are merely complaining about the
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
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inconvenience of the fact that there is another appeal that
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raises an issue, but not all of the issues that would be raised
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in their appeals, and that it is proceeding first.
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May 28th ruling when it first came out.
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reconsideration.
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were perfectly fine with this case proceeding along the normal
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path until the Fontainebleau trustee dismissed the rest of its
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claims and got the right to immediately appeal the fully drawn
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ruling.
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appeal Your Honor's ruling.
10:12:53
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10:12:58
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as a result of the Fontainebleau trustee arguing this issue
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before they get a chance to do so, that is not the kind of
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hardship or prejudice or pressing need --
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THE COURT:
10:13:12
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technical if you don't mind.
10:13:13
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MR. CANTOR:
10:13:15
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THE COURT:
10:13:17
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Circuit to have a choice, which really comes down to -- and I
10:13:23
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will get back to that in a second -- of looking at these issues
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with respect to both cases and also determine their standing?
10:13:34
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MR. CANTOR:
10:13:36
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THE COURT:
10:13:40
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You know, they were content to not appeal Your Honor's
They didn't seek
They didn't move for 1292(b) relief.
They
That was when they suddenly decided that they needed to
But whatever it is that they feel that they will suffer
Let me talk more practical to you than
Okay.
Sure.
What would be the harm for the Eleventh
Well, that is the part, Your Honor, -What would be the harm to your side to tee
off all these issues and get one opinion on it?
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
13
Well, among other things, Your Honor, the
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10:13:48
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issue of the credit agreement breach is one that could be mooted
10:13:54
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by the proceedings that are going to happen on the disbursement
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agreement claims that are going forward in Your Honor's court
10:14:01
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simultaneously with the appeal that is going on at the Eleventh
10:14:03
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Circuit.
10:14:04
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10:14:09
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first raised this issue and they were adamant that they didn't
10:14:11
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want to do anything that was going to prejudice their 2012 trial
10:14:15
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10:14:18
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10:14:21
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claims, one of the things that they are going to have to show is
10:14:24
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that there were defaults, events of default, by Fontainebleau.
10:14:29
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10:14:32
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ruling in the Fontainebleau case and as we discussed with Your
10:14:36
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Honor in the briefing on the motion to dismiss in this case, if
10:14:41
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it is established by the term lenders, as they must, that there
10:14:46
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were defaults by Fontainebleau, and the events of default that
10:14:50
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they are talking about in their complaint happened long, long,
10:14:54
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long before March 2009, then there would be no breach claim
10:15:02
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under the credit agreement for failure to fund the March
10:15:05
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borrowing request because Fontainebleau would have already been
10:15:08
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in material breach of the credit agreement.
10:15:10
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10:15:15
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MR. CANTOR:
We spoke to counsel for the term lenders when they
date on the disbursement agent claims.
But in order to prevail on the disbursement agent
But as Your Honor recognized in the summary judgment
So we would be going up to the Eleventh Circuit on an
issue that, from a standing perspective, Your Honor has already
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
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determined they don't have the right to be heard on.
That is
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what your standing ruling is, is that they are not a beneficiary
10:15:28
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of the fully drawn provision and therefore they don't have a
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right to be heard on it.
10:15:33
5
10:15:36
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go up to the Eleventh Circuit in an extraordinary procedural
10:15:41
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mechanism that is to be invoked rarely so that they can argue
10:15:44
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about the contract interpretation of a provision that Your Honor
10:15:48
9
said they don't have the power to enforce.
10:15:51
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are talking about a claim that could be mooted by the ongoing
10:15:54
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litigation.
10:15:55
12
10:15:58
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to, respectfully, you know, what's the harm is not the proper
10:16:04
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standard.
10:16:07
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lot more serious than okay, you know, it would be convenient.
10:16:11
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10:16:15
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overstepped my bounds and they are going to limit their
10:16:19
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discussion, in which case the other side then says, "Well, we
10:16:23
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want at least the opportunity to file amicus on this."
10:16:27
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10:16:30
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other, they're going to try to get their position heard with
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respect to the fully drawn question.
10:16:38
23
MR. CANTOR:
10:16:39
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THE COURT:
10:16:41
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So it is really getting it backwards that they want to
In any event, they
So that's the prejudice to us, Your Honor, in addition
The Eleventh Circuit has made it clear that it is a
THE COURT:
Then they would tell us that I have
So then we're back to the amicus issue.
One way or the
Your Honor, it is interesting -The only issue is whether they have any
opportunity to argue about the standing issue at that same time.
January 7, 2011
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Your Honor, it was interesting that when
10:16:45
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10:16:47
2
you asked them what new arguments, different arguments, they
10:16:50
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would raise that aren't going to be raised by the trustee,
10:16:55
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whether intentionally or by inadvertence, they actually didn't
10:16:59
5
answer that question because, quite frankly, either answer
10:17:01
6
doesn't help them on this motion.
10:17:04
7
10:17:06
8
or their arguments are going to be different, in which case
10:17:09
9
their point about not burdening the Eleventh Circuit makes no
10:17:11
10
sense because now they are, in fact, burdening the Eleventh
10:17:14
11
Circuit with additional issues that they wouldn't otherwise have
10:17:17
12
to address.
10:17:18
13
10:17:22
14
10:17:24
15
10:17:27
16
Let me go back to, I think, where your question started with
10:17:32
17
counsel.
10:17:33
18
10:17:37
19
any reason that we should not be in the Eleventh Circuit arguing
10:17:43
20
these issues?
10:17:44
21
10:17:46
22
this in the first instance and had delayed, had not sought
10:17:51
23
reconsideration, had not sought a 54(b) certification because we
10:17:56
24
had determined that we didn't want to be in the Court of Appeal.
10:17:58
25
MR. CANTOR:
Either their arguments are going to be exactly the same
THE COURT:
Point well taken but let me turn back.
What do you have to say with respect to their position?
MR. DILLMAN:
Well, Your Honor, a lot was just said.
As a practical matter, why do we care?
Why is there
Counsel suggested that we had somehow not cared about
Far from it, Your Honor.
We would have loved, in May
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
16
10:18:01
1
of last year, to go up on appeal.
We would have liked to have
10:18:05
2
gotten finality on this.
10:18:08
3
revolving lenders back in this case.
10:18:11
4
one-defendant case where it was eleven before.
10:18:14
5
10:18:17
6
neither this Court nor the Eleventh Circuit would have looked
10:18:20
7
favorably upon the multiple appeals that that would have
10:18:26
8
created.
10:18:27
9
10:18:30
10
Fontainebleau.
10:18:35
11
have an appeal of that issue at the end of their case.
10:18:41
12
by definition if we were to seek 54(b) relief at that time, we
10:18:45
13
would have created the situation of multiple considerations by
10:18:48
14
the Eleventh Circuit on these issues.
10:18:52
15
10:18:56
16
Honor granted the trustee's motion to dismiss claims, to allow
10:19:01
17
the trustee to appeal, that now gave an opportunity to have this
10:19:07
18
issue decided once by the Eleventh Circuit now.
10:19:13
19
10:19:18
20
possible harm?
10:19:20
21
with a couple of additional arguments?
10:19:23
22
10:19:26
23
Eleventh Circuit will want to have before it when it considers
10:19:29
24
these issues all points of view.
10:19:35
25
at the end of the case it is determined that they weren't given
We would have liked to have gotten the
This is now a
It was our assessment, however, at that time that
How so?
You had already denied the 1292(b) motion for
Therefore, they were going to only be able to
That situation has now come full circle.
I go back to the practical question:
And so
When Your
What is the
Why is the Eleventh Circuit going to be burdened
I think that they can handle that.
I think the
They will be disappointed if
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
17
10:19:38
1
arguments.
10:19:39
2
10:19:44
3
possibility.
10:19:48
4
multiplicity of appeals throughout the circuits that will result
10:19:51
5
if we are not there.
10:19:52
6
10:19:55
7
the Eleventh Circuit calls the shots on the issue because if I
10:20:03
8
grant your motion, it can take a look at what I've done and say
10:20:09
9
that the entry of partial final judgment under 54(b) was
10:20:13
10
10:20:21
11
10:20:25
12
versus Tenet Health Care, 483 F.3d 773, decided in 2007, and
10:20:40
13
there are others.
10:20:44
14
10:20:48
15
in the interest of all the parties as they see it through the
10:20:52
16
appellate lens.
10:20:58
17
10:21:01
18
that opportunity and the opportunity for the other side to move
10:21:04
19
to dismiss it as being improperly filed, I suppose, and the
10:21:07
20
Eleventh Circuit can decide that question.
10:21:10
21
10:21:13
22
Yarn Processing case as another case where the Eleventh Circuit
10:21:16
23
rejected a 54(b) certification, saying that there hadn't been
10:21:19
24
sufficient grounds established.
10:21:20
25
Now, Your Honor has pointed to the issue of an amicus
Yes, that exists, but then we get back to the
THE COURT:
Well, I mean, the truth of the matter is
improper and dismiss it, and they have done so.
One case I found was Lloyd Noland Foundation, Inc.
So the Eleventh Circuit can decide, in effect, what is
The question is whether it makes sense to give them
MR. DILLMAN:
Well, Your Honor, I would point to the
The Eleventh Circuit has shown no reluctance to step in
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
18
10:21:22
1
when it does not want to be bothered by appeals that it does not
10:21:25
2
consider to be appropriate under Rule 54(b).
10:21:29
3
10:21:34
4
ourselves:
10:21:40
5
out of the Eleventh Circuit?
10:21:43
6
will be there.
10:21:47
7
They will fly out.
10:21:50
8
have to address the standing argument, but they will have to
10:21:53
9
address that sometime anyway.
10:21:54
10
10:21:57
11
10:21:57
12
10:22:00
13
10:22:05
14
I want to emphasize this is an MDL proceeding.
10:22:09
15
set up for just these efficiencies, and I would suggest that the
10:22:15
16
MDL panel, if looking at this, would say we don't want these
10:22:18
17
appeals to be heard in different circuits.
10:22:22
18
it to Judge Gold.
10:22:26
19
Circuit oversee these matters.
10:22:28
20
10:22:31
21
reason that all of us are here before you, that you would not
10:22:35
22
permit us 54(b) certification.
10:22:37
23
10:22:39
24
global mediation?
10:22:45
25
a place at the table.
I think, Your Honor, as a final matter we have to ask
Why are the defendants fighting so hard to keep us
They are going to be there.
They
It is not going to be a stitch more for them.
They will make their appearance.
They will
They think you are too good an advocate up
THE COURT:
there.
Well, Your Honor, it is obviously
MR. DILLMAN:
strategic, not equitable, in terms of their desires here.
This is
That's why we sent
That's why we sent it to have the Eleventh
I think it is fundamentally inconsistent with the whole
THE COURT:
What is your response to the issue of the
With a 54(b) in their favor, they would have
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
19
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1
Why wouldn't you want them to have a place at the
10:22:49
2
10:22:49
3
10:22:54
4
that.
10:23:00
5
because they have to do with strategic settlement issues.
10:23:04
6
10:23:06
7
is there some persuasive reason that would be disruptive of the
10:23:14
8
mediation to have them as a participant if it is a global
10:23:18
9
mediation?
10:23:18
10
10:23:20
11
posture right now from a settlement perspective than the trustee
10:23:26
12
is.
10:23:26
13
10:23:29
14
dismissed.
10:23:33
15
Bank of America which while I, as you undoubtedly recognize,
10:23:40
16
seriously dispute, I'm sure they believe them to be very strong,
10:23:43
17
very valid and worth a lot of money.
10:23:47
18
10:23:52
19
the settlement conference just for that reason alone, among
10:23:56
20
others.
10:23:56
21
10:24:00
22
among yourselves at this point because the discovery hasn't gone
10:24:03
23
far enough?
10:24:05
24
10:24:10
25
table?
MR. CANTOR:
Your Honor, I've got lots of answers to
Some of them are probably not appropriate for a courtroom
THE COURT:
MR. CANTOR:
I'm not asking for those answers.
I mean,
Well, Your Honor, they are in a different
Every single one of the trustee's claims has now been
The term lenders still have their claims against
Thus, it would impose an entirely different dynamic on
THE COURT:
Is it premature for settlement discussions
Would it be helpful to have an early discussion which
is triggered by this global mediation at the Eleventh Circuit
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
20
10:24:16
1
level?
10:24:16
2
10:24:19
3
not meaning to be -- hopefully not being nonresponsive.
10:24:22
4
parties have been mindful already of the potential benefits of
10:24:27
5
early settlement.
10:24:32
6
will not advance that goal in any way.
10:24:42
7
Your Honor, just further on the mediation point, the
10:24:47
8
parties have already debated with Mr. Halbecker, the Eleventh
10:24:52
9
Circuit mediator, whether, in fact, mediation would be fruitful
10:24:57
10
10:25:00
11
10:25:03
12
Mr. Halbecker has told us he still wants to go forward with the
10:25:07
13
mediation.
10:25:11
14
with high expectations for its success, so that's another
10:25:16
15
atmospheric there as well.
10:25:18
16
10:25:21
17
point on this issue of if the Eleventh Circuit doesn't want it,
10:25:24
18
the Eleventh Circuit will kick it back.
10:25:27
19
10:25:29
20
Circuit opinions on 54(b), and in particular the Eberhini case,
10:25:37
21
the Eleventh Circuit has made it clear that it doesn't want to
10:25:39
22
be burdened with having to kick it back in the first instance.
10:25:42
23
10:25:46
24
instructed to Districts Courts that they need to make very
10:25:50
25
specific findings before granting 54(b) relief and has, in the
MR. CANTOR:
Let me put it this way, Your Honor, and
The
The mediation that is planned for February
even between the revolving lenders and the trustees.
Quite frankly, over the revolving lenders' views,
So it's not as though everyone is going to mediation
If I may, Your Honor, I just would like to add one
Respectfully, I think when you read the Eleventh
And that is why, respectfully, it has specifically
January 7, 2011
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Oral Argument
21
10:25:55
1
Court's words, counseled Districts Courts to exercise the
10:26:00
2
limited discretion afforded by Rule 54(b) conservatively.
10:26:05
3
10:26:08
4
does not envision a process whereby 54(b) relief will be granted
10:26:13
5
because what's the harm?
10:26:16
6
it back.
10:26:17
7
10:26:20
8
10:26:21
9
10:26:25
10
order but I'm asking you practically, as we discuss the
10:26:33
11
implementations of the give and take, what is really going on
10:26:36
12
here between the parties, this question, --
10:26:38
13
MR. CANTOR:
10:26:39
14
THE COURT:
10:26:41
15
litigation context.
10:26:44
16
10:26:51
17
we talk about summary judgment on the remaining issues that are
10:26:57
18
still before us, but without even beginning to imagine all the
10:27:05
19
arguments that both sides will present, there may be a
10:27:12
20
likelihood that there are material issues of fact that require
10:27:16
21
resolution through trial.
10:27:19
22
10:27:24
23
different points of view among circuits on this issue and that
10:27:28
24
certainly is not consistent with the multidistrict goals.
10:27:37
25
So I think it is fair to say that the Eleventh Circuit
The Eleventh Circuit can always kick
They want to make sure that the issue has been fully
vetted here first.
THE COURT:
I promise I won't put those words in my
Yeah.
-- particularly in a multidistrict
I have concerns about where it all ends up.
You know,
If that's the case, then there could be a potential for
MR. CANTOR:
I understand that, Your Honor, but -January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 22 of 32
Oral Argument
22
That's one point that the Eleventh Circuit
10:27:39
1
10:27:42
2
might have some concern about, that they would be the one to
10:27:47
3
decide this issue as to all the parties once and for all.
10:27:57
4
10:27:57
5
could I jump in for a second on that point?
6
Simpson Thacher.
THE COURT:
MR. WOLL:
Your Honor, if Mr. Cantor doesn't mind,
Sure.
David Woll from
Could you use the microphone a
10:28:00
7
10:28:01
8
little bit better?
10:28:03
9
MR. WOLL:
10:28:06
10
recognize that the "fully drawn" appeal in the trustee case, in
10:28:13
11
the Fontainebleau case, could very well result in unresolved
10:28:19
12
disputed factual issues, either because the Eleventh Circuit
10:28:22
13
found contrary to our belief that the term is ambiguous and that
10:28:25
14
there needs to be a trial on the meaning of "fully drawn," or
10:28:30
15
because of the events of default issues that Mr. Cantor
10:28:33
16
mentioned.
10:28:35
17
10:28:39
18
contract interpretation issue, there is still the issue of the
10:28:42
19
events of default which Your Honor is suggesting may not be
10:28:46
20
subject to resolution on summary judgment.
10:28:48
21
10:28:52
22
the Eleventh Circuit now on this legal issue and then have
10:28:55
23
another shot in another circuit after a trial on the factual
10:28:59
24
issues which could very well result from the appeal, I don't
10:29:03
25
think serves judicial economy or the MDL interest because then
THE COURT:
I apologize.
I think it is important to
Even if Fontainebleau prevailed on the "fully drawn"
So this notion that the term lenders want to go up to
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 23 of 32
Oral Argument
23
10:29:08
1
you have two Appellate Courts dealing with appeals in the same
10:29:11
2
case.
10:29:13
3
10:29:15
4
making earlier, Your Honor, which is to say that there is going
10:29:17
5
to be an appeal from the term lender versus revolver case, and
10:29:22
6
it will be better for whatever Court ultimately hears that
10:29:25
7
appeal that it have all of the issues between us before it
10:29:28
8
rather than having only part of those issues, particularly with
10:29:33
9
respect to the credit agreement claims, because as Mr. Woll
10:29:37
10
said, there are going to be arguments about the credit agreement
10:29:41
11
claims in this case if the Eleventh Circuit decides that your
10:29:44
12
interpretation of "fully drawn" was either incorrect or that the
10:29:48
13
term is ambiguous.
10:29:51
14
10:29:54
15
term lender case until it was all done, Mr. Dillman referred to
10:29:58
16
this as strategic, but I think he sort of meant that in a
10:30:02
17
somewhat pejorative sense, but I think it is really more a
10:30:06
18
matter of fairness.
10:30:07
19
10:30:09
20
case on the issue of the credit agreement with all of our
10:30:16
21
arguments available to us.
10:30:18
22
10:30:20
23
in a pleading sense as opposed to a factual sense is that the
10:30:21
24
term lenders can't prevail on the credit agreement claim because
10:30:26
25
it has been established that Fontainebleau breached the
MR. CANTOR:
And that goes back to the point that I was
So on the other hand if we were to wait to appeal the
We should be able to go up to the Appeals Court in this
One argument that we won't have available to us except
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 24 of 32
Oral Argument
24
10:30:29
1
agreement before it made the March 3 borrowing request.
10:30:34
2
10:30:39
3
suggested, where there could be multiple courts dealing with
10:30:42
4
that issue, where all of the issues relating to the credit
10:30:45
5
agreement are not before the Appellate Court, whereas if you
10:30:48
6
keep the term lender litigation together -- and again to go back
10:30:51
7
to my initial point, 54(b) is not about the appeal of issues; it
10:30:55
8
is about the appeal of cases.
10:30:57
9
10:31:01
10
the second part of 54(b) talks about, what the policy against
10:31:06
11
piecemeal appeals is designed to prevent, then you avoid these
10:31:11
12
potential problems.
10:31:12
13
THE COURT:
10:31:14
14
MR. DILLMAN:
10:31:17
15
to simply try and count up appeals and say how many are there,
10:31:23
16
and depending on that equation, we're going to grant or not
10:31:27
17
54(b) relief.
10:31:30
18
10:31:34
19
the Appellate Courts now to be there and, by the same token, to
10:31:42
20
prevent parties from cutting in line.
10:31:45
21
you need to go through to appeal, and the Appellate Court has
10:31:47
22
said we don't want people cutting in line unless there is a
10:31:51
23
pretty darn good reason for it.
10:31:54
24
10:31:57
25
54(b) relief puts you in this odd posture, as Mr. Woll
And if you keep this case to one appeal, which is what
What's your response to all that?
Your Honor, I think it is a narrow view
54(b) is designed to allow parties that should be in
There is a process that
We are not even seeking to cut in line.
there.
It is already
We are just seeking to join the parties that are already
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 25 of 32
Oral Argument
25
10:32:00
1
in line, that are there as a matter of right; and the notion
10:32:05
2
that somehow there may be events -- and I am not even sure I
10:32:09
3
completely understood the fact patterns that they were
10:32:12
4
speculating in terms of what may happen and when and in what
10:32:15
5
circuits.
10:32:16
6
10:32:21
7
drawn issues on the credit agreement, the only issues involving
10:32:25
8
10 of the 11 defendants, the only issues involving those
10:32:29
9
revolving defendants, other than BofA, who is -- the
10:32:34
10
allegations, who is being -- claims are being asserted against
10:32:39
11
on a wholly different agreement for wholly different conduct
10:32:42
12
with different damages.
10:32:47
13
set of claims involving 10 defendants up before the Court of
10:32:51
14
Appeal.
10:32:52
15
10:32:54
16
don't know how things are going to go.
10:32:56
17
summary judgment.
10:32:59
18
all I know.
10:33:04
19
stake through this particular issue and, that is, is there a
10:33:08
20
claim for failure to fund against the revolving lenders?
10:33:11
21
10:33:16
22
It may or may not be able to be joined with this case given the
10:33:20
23
timing.
10:33:23
24
that bridge when we come to it.
10:33:25
25
One thing we know to be clear:
These issues, the fully
So we have got all of the issues on a
I don't know what is going to happen in these cases.
I
I don't know about
Your Honor may grant our summary judgment for
But I do know that we have an opportunity to put a
If the answer to that is yes, it will come back down.
Who knows what is going to happen, but we will burn
If the answer is no, then we're done.
January 7, 2011
Then we no
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 26 of 32
Oral Argument
26
10:33:29
1
longer have the revolving lender failure to fund claims to deal
10:33:35
2
with, and I think that really is the focus of our motion, is to
10:33:42
3
generate the efficiencies, to eliminate the extraneous work that
10:33:51
4
would otherwise be imposed upon the Eleventh Circuit,
10:33:54
5
potentially the Ninth Circuit and potentially the Second Circuit
10:33:58
6
here.
There is no reason.
10:34:01
7
here.
The parties are there.
10:34:07
8
them.
10:34:07
9
10:34:10
10
it clear that there has to be a pressing need, that the purpose
10:34:13
11
of 54(b) is to avoid prejudice to the party that seeks the
10:34:19
12
relief.
10:34:22
13
10:34:28
14
at the Eleventh Circuit with the trustee, and I can understand
10:34:30
15
why he would like to be a part of that proceeding, but he has
10:34:32
16
not made even the remotest showing of a pressing need.
10:34:38
17
10:34:40
18
about is 54(b) relief for what was alternative grounds for Your
10:34:47
19
Honor's decision to dismiss his claims.
10:34:53
20
seeks 54(b) relief so that he can appeal the principal basis on
10:34:58
21
which his claims were dismissed.
10:35:00
22
He wants to appeal an alternative basis.
10:35:10
23
MR. RUBINSTEIN:
24
10:35:12
25
MR. CANTOR:
There is no just cause for delay
We simply seek to be there with
Your Honor, the Eleventh Circuit has made
What is the pressing need?
What is the prejudice?
Mr. Dillman has explained why they would like to be up
Again, it is important to remember what he's talking
It is not even that he
Your Honor, may I?
Aaron Rubinstein
from Kaye Scholer for HSH Nordbank.
I am in a slightly different position than Mr. Cantor
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 27 of 32
Oral Argument
27
10:35:15
1
and his client because I am only a revolver, and I am not facing
10:35:19
2
the disbursement agreement claims that he is facing.
10:35:21
3
10:35:25
4
yes from the Eleventh Circuit, that indeed Your Honor was wrong,
10:35:30
5
then I am back in litigation now and I am litigating and going
10:35:34
6
through discovery and everything without the Eleventh Circuit
10:35:37
7
having had the opportunity to address everything to prevent me
10:35:40
8
from being in that position, because without 54(b)
10:35:44
9
certification, the litigation is going to proceed against Bank
10:35:47
10
10:35:49
11
10:35:54
12
10:35:58
13
10:36:00
14
declared and that alone would preclude the revolvers from having
10:36:05
15
to have funded on March 2 or March 3.
10:36:07
16
10:36:11
17
plaintiff's counsel is that is exactly why I, as a revolver only
10:36:17
18
-- and most of us are revolvers only except for Bank of
10:36:19
19
America -- are facing very severe prejudice.
10:36:22
20
10:36:26
21
Eleventh Circuit at the end of the case, including whether or
10:36:28
22
not there was a default after a determination of the claims
10:36:33
23
against the administrative agent, then they are only addressing
10:36:37
24
the issues that relate to the revolvers with part of the legal
10:36:45
25
basis to proceed on the claims for not funding on March 2 or
To respond to plaintiff's last point, if the answer is
of America as administrative agent.
And if they lose, then I'm never going to be faced with
the trial for the reasons Mr. Cantor said.
There will have been a default that will have been
And so the answer to the last point that was made by
If they win without all of the issues before the
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 28 of 32
Oral Argument
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10:36:49
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March 3.
10:36:50
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I may never get there if the determination is made that
10:36:55
3
there were serious defaults and events and defaults that existed
10:36:59
4
because that is a separate basis that would preclude their
10:37:03
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claims against the revolvers.
10:37:06
6
10:37:09
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settlement and why it would hurt if they were there.
10:37:12
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things which I can say is I think it would hurt tremendously
10:37:15
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from my perspective.
10:37:20
10
10:37:22
11
10:37:30
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bankrupt entity that no longer owns this project and that has to
10:37:34
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evaluate, having lost, whether or not it is worth spending money
10:37:39
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to pursue the claims or not and evaluate what is reasonable for
10:37:43
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it to accept under these circumstances.
10:37:46
16
10:37:53
17
vulture fund purchasers who bought up this debt for severe
10:37:59
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discounts but for many millions of dollars.
10:38:03
19
recover their investment, and they are hardly going to be of a
10:38:06
20
frame of mind to settle at what we believe should be the minimal
10:38:09
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amount that a trustee should agree to settle because why should
10:38:14
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they?
10:38:15
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10:38:18
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their hundreds of millions of dollars of whatever they have
10:38:20
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invested because otherwise they are potentially being asked to
One more point, Your Honor, if I may.
You asked about
One of the
There are different types of plaintiffs
here with respect to that same issue.
We are going to be negotiating with a trustee of a
Many of the plaintiffs in this case are essentially
They are in it to
They'd rather pay counsel and take a shot and recoup
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 29 of 32
Oral Argument
29
10:38:22
1
walk away for a minimal amount.
10:38:27
2
10:38:29
3
settle with the term lenders.
10:38:31
4
could settle with the trustee but if there is a joint
10:38:35
5
negotiation, I think that eliminates the chance of settling with
10:38:38
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the trustee because the trustee is not going to accept what I
10:38:43
7
think is the most we are going to be willing to pay under the
10:38:46
8
settlement circumstances if the term lenders are there
10:38:48
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potentially getting more or substantially more.
10:38:53
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10:38:57
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10:39:00
12
THE COURT:
10:39:04
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MR. DILLMAN:
10:39:09
14
without indicating that this notion that proof of a default
10:39:15
15
somehow eliminates the claims against the revolvers is just not
10:39:22
16
correct.
10:39:24
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10:39:28
18
Fontainebleau case.
10:39:31
19
the motion to dismiss, spent a great deal of time -- I believe
10:39:36
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six or seven pages -- explaining why, under the proper
10:39:39
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interpretation of the credit agreement, prior defaults did not
10:39:45
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excuse the revolving lenders from funding.
10:39:49
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10:39:56
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their reply brief on that.
10:39:59
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is very much, in our opinion, a live issue.
I don't think there is a chance at this stage we could
I think there is a chance we
It really changes the dynamic in a way that I think is
very detrimental to reaching a settlement with the trustee.
Anyone else have anything you wish to add?
Your Honor, I can't let this hearing go
Your Honor has ruled on this issue previously in a
We have in our motion, our opposition to
That was never rebutted by the revolving lenders in
The Court never reached it, but it
January 7, 2011
Even if the Court
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 30 of 32
Oral Argument
30
10:40:04
1
were to conclude that indeed prior existing defaults excused,
10:40:12
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recall that our disbursement agreement claims, our claims
10:40:16
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against Bank of America for improperly disbursing our funds
10:40:22
4
March 25, 2009, concern acts that occurred on March 25, 2009.
10:40:26
5
10:40:31
6
is certainly a possibility that even if you were to determine
10:40:37
7
the defaults excused payments, the defaults that we prove up
10:40:42
8
would not be relevant and applicable to that earlier period.
10:40:47
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10:40:49
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10:40:52
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10:40:55
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expression that you are interested in going through more detail
10:40:58
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on that.
10:40:59
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THE COURT:
10:41:00
15
MR. DILLMAN:
10:41:03
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10:41:07
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10:41:09
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that, because I also recognize that you don't want to get into
10:41:12
19
the meat of this, but I would simply point out that in our
10:41:15
20
motion to dismiss reply brief at Page 8, Footnote 12, we did, in
10:41:19
21
fact, deal with their issue.
10:41:22
22
Because it was the fourth or fifth reason why their
10:41:25
23
claims failed, it was not emphasized in our brief or in Your
10:41:28
24
Honor's opinion, but we very much did dispute the issue, and are
10:41:34
25
prepared to do so down the road as well.
The failure to fund occurred on March 3rd, and so there
I didn't want it to go by that that was something that
we agreed with and that that was the law of the case here.
I am happy to -- I don't get the sense from the Court's
I am really not.
There are many arguments that we have and
I just wanted to make sure that that did not go unresponded to.
MR. CANTOR:
Your Honor, the only thing I will say on
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 31 of 32
Oral Argument
31
Does anybody wish to have any other
10:41:38
1
10:41:41
2
10:41:43
3
10:41:49
4
on the question.
10:41:51
5
clarifying some matters that at least I wanted to ask you about,
10:41:55
6
but I hope to get the answer out to you within the next week so
10:42:01
7
that you have time to take positions that you may want to take
10:42:09
8
if I rule adversely.
10:42:10
9
10:42:14
10
MR. DILLMAN:
Thank you Your Honor.
10:42:15
11
MR. CANTOR:
Thank you, Your Honor.
10:42:17
12
THE COURT:
position stated?
I'd like to take another look at this before I decide
Your arguments today were helpful in
Thank you for your appearances today.
[The proceedings conclude at 10:42 a.m., 1/7/11.]
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January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 118 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 32 of 32
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CERTIFICATE
I hereby certify that the foregoing is an accurate transcription of the
proceedings in the above-entitled matter.
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________________
01.25.11
DATE
______________________________________
JOSEPH A. MILLIKAN, RPR-CM-NSC-FCRR
Official United States Court Reporter
Federally Certified Realtime Reporter
400 North Miami Avenue, Suite 11-1
Miami, FL 33128
305.523.5588
(Fax) 305.523.5589
josephamillikan@gmail.com
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Quality Assurance by Proximity Linguibase Technologies
January 7, 2011
Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 119 Entered on FLSD Docket 01/27/2011 Page 1 of 1
ELEVENTH CIRCUIT TRANSCRIPT ORDER FORM
PART I.
TRANSCRIPT ORDER INFORMATION
Appellant to complete and file with the District Court Clerk within x days of the filing of the notice of appeal in all cases, including those in which there
10
was no hearing or for which no transcript is ordered.
14
Short Case Style:
Avenue CLO Fund, Ltd., et al.
vs Bank of America, N.A., et al.,
District Court No.: 09-CV-23835-Gold
CHOOSE ONE:
✔
Date Notice of Appeal Filed: January 19, 2011 Court of Appeals No.: Not Available
(If Available)
No hearing
No transcript is required for appeal purposes
All necessary transcript(s) on file
I AM ORDERING A TRANSCRIPT OF THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS:
Check appropriate box(es) and provide all information requested:
HEARING DATE(S)
✔
JUDGE/MAGISTRATE
COURT REPORTER NAME(S)
May 7, 2010 and January 7, 2011 - Judge Gold - Joseph A. Millikan
Pre-Trial Proceedings
Trial
Sentence
Other
METHOD OF PAYMENT:
✔
I CERTIFY THAT I HAVE CONTACTED THE COURT REPORTER(S) AND HAVE MADE SATISFACTORY ARRANGEMENTS WITH THE
COURT REPORTER(S) FOR PAYING THE COST OF THE TRANSCRIPT.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT. Attached for submission to District Judge/Magistrate is my completed CJA Form 24 requesting authorization for
government payment of transcript. [A transcript of the following proceedings will be provided ONY IF SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED in Item 13 on
CJA Form 24: Voir Dire; Opening and Closing Statements of Prosecution and Defense; Prosecution Rebuttal; Jury Instructions]
Ordering Counsel/Party: Lorenz Pruss/Plaintiffs
Name of Firm: Dimond Kaplan & Rothstein, P.A
Street Address/P.O. Box: 2655 S. Bayshore Drive, Penthouse 2B
City/State/Zip Code: Miami, FL 33133
Phone No.: 305-600-1393
I certify that I have filed the original (Yellow page) with the District Court Clerk, sent the Pink and green pages to the appropriate Court Reporter(s) if
ordering a transcript, and sent a photocopy to the Court of Appeals Clerk and to all parties.
DATE: January 19, 2011
SIGNED: s/
PART II.
Lorenz Pruss
Attorney For: Plaintiffs
COURT REPORTER ACKNOWLEDGMENT
Court Reporter to complete and file Pink page with the District Court Clerk within 10 days of receipt. The Court Reporter shall send a photocopy to the
Court of Appeals Clerk and to all parties, and retain the Green page to provide notification when transcript filed.
Date Transcript Order received: 01.25.11
x Satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript were completed on: 01.27.11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------x Satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript have not been made.
No. of hearing days:
2
Estimated no. of transcript pages:
97
Estimated filing date:
01.27.11
01.25.11
DATE:
SIGNED: s/
Phone No.: 305.523.5588
NOTE: The transcript is due to be filed within 30 days of the date satisfactory arrangements for paying the cost of the transcript were completed unless the
Court Reporter obtains an extension of time to file the transcript.
PART III.
NOTIFICATION THAT TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN FILED IN DISTRICT COURT
Court Reporter to complete and file Green page with the District Court Clerk on date of filing transcript in District Court. The Court Reporter shall send a
photocopy of the completed Green page to the Court of Appeals Clerk on the same date.
This is to certify that the transcript has been completed and filed with the district court on (date):
Actual No. of Volumes and Hearing Dates:
Date:
01.27.11
01.27.11
Two Volumes, 05.07.10 & 01.07.11
Signature of Court Reporter: s/
*U.S. GPO: 1998-734-049-80146
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Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 124 Entered on FLSD Docket 09/09/2011 Page 8 of 28
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Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 124 Entered on FLSD Docket 09/09/2011 Page 9 of 28
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Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 124 Entered on FLSD Docket 09/09/2011 Page 10 of 28
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Case 1:09-cv-23835-ASG Document 124 Entered on FLSD Docket 09/09/2011 Page 11 of 28
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