O'Bannon, Jr. v. National Collegiate Athletic Association et al

Filing 233

Deposition Designations by Edward C. O'Bannon, Jr. (Attachments: #1 Exhibit A, #2 Exhibit B, #3 Exhibit C, #4 Exhibit D, #5 Exhibit E, #6 Exhibit F, #7 Exhibit G, #8 Exhibit H, #9 Exhibit I)(Bojedla, Swathi) (Filed on 6/20/2014) Modified on 6/23/2014 (kcS, COURT STAFF).

EXHIBIT I

Page 1
1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

2

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

3
4

______________________________
)

5

IN RE NCAA STUDENT-ATHLETE

)
)

6

NAME AND LIKENESS LICENSING

) CASE NO.
) 4:09-cv-1967 CW

7

LITIGATION

)
)

8

______________________________)

9
10
11
12

VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of JOHN D. WELTY

13

FRESNO, CALIFORNIA

14

MONDAY, MAY 20, 2013

15
16
17
18
19
20
21

Reported by:

22

VANESSA HARSKAMP

23

CSR No. 5679, RPR, CRR, CCP

24
25

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 10

8
9

Q.

Could you state you full name for the

record, sir?

10

A.

John Welty.

11

Q.

And have you ever had your deposition

12

taken before?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

On how many occasions?

15

A.

Four or five, probably.

16

Q.

And in recent years?

17

A.

Yes, within the last seven or eight years.

18

Q.

And were you deposed in any of the

19

discrimination lawsuits brought by former female

20

coaches in the mid 2000s?

21

A.

22

Q.

212-279-9424

Yes.

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 14
1

declaration, was anyone present?

2

A.

Mr. Curtner was present for part of it.

3

Q.

All right.

4

A.

No.

5

Q.

Okay.

Anyone else?

Prior to the hour you spent today

6

preparing for the deposition, did you do anything

7

else to prepare for today?

8

A.

No.

9

Q.

Have you spoken to anyone about the

10

deposition, other than the fact that you would be

11

tied up in the afternoon?

12

A.

16

Q.

Okay.

How did it come about that you

17

prepared a declaration which was submitted to the

18

court in mid March in opposition to the class

19

certification motion?

20
21

A.

I was contacted by Mark Emmert, the

President of the NCAA.

22

Q.

And when was that, approximately?

23

A.

I would say three or four months ago.

24

Q.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 16

18

Who prepared the declaration?

21

THE WITNESS:

22

The -- I'm not sure of the

exact person, but the firm representing the NCAA.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 22
1

Q.

And do you still have a copy of that?

2

A.

I don't believe so.

3

Q.

5

Q.

6

Okay.

Before you signed the declaration,

did you do any research?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

And could you describe the research you

9
10

did, please?
A.

I reviewed our budget for some of the

11

financial figures that are included in the

12

declaration.

13

Q.

14

State?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

Anything else that you reviewed prior to

17

And this is the athletic budget for Fresno

executing the declaration?

18

A.

No.

19

Q.

Did you read any -- any economic textbooks

20

or treatises?

21

A.

No.

22

Q.

Did you direct anyone to do any research?

Q.

So basically your research was limited to

23
24
25

confirming the numbers for the athletic budget for

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 23
1

Fresno State; is that correct, sir?

2

A.

That's correct.

3

Q.

Now, in this case there have been a number

4

of reports submitted by expert witnesses.

5

Have you

reviewed any of that material?

6

A.

No.

7

Q.

Let me just go over the names so that our

8

record is complete.

9
10

Have you reviewed any of the reports by
Dr. Roger Noll, the economist from Stanford?

11

A.

I have not.

12

Q.

Did you review any of the reports by Larry

13

Gerbrandt, G-E-R-B-R-A-N-D-T?

14

A.

No.

15

Q.

Did you review the report by Dr. Rascher,

16

R-A-S-C-H-E-R?

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

Did you review the report by

19

Dr. McCormick, M-C-C-O-R-M-I-C-K, the fellow from

20

Clemson?

21

A.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 37

25

Q.

212-279-9424

Okay.

And then you came to Fresno State?
VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 38
1

A.

That's correct.

2

Q.

And you have been here ever since?

3

A.

Yes.

4

Q.

And when you came, did you come in as the

5

President?

6

A.

Yes.

7

Q.

And you have been the President since '91?

8

A.

That's correct.

9

Q.

So about 22 years?

10

A.

Yes.

11

Q.

Okay.

12
13

And I understand you are retiring

soon?
A.

212-279-9424

Yes.

At the end of July.

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 41
1
2

I football or Division I basketball?
A.

From time to time there have been

3

discussions about whether that is an alternative we

4

should consider.

5

CSU schools dropped football, we have had

6

discussion about:

7
8

Q.

Largely in football, when other

Can we sustain the program here?

And were any studies done, anything on a

formal level?

9

A.

No.

10

Q.

No -- any papers produced?

11

A.

I don't believe so.

12

Q.

Any economic analysis prepared?

13

A.

No.

14

Q.

So these are just sort of informal

15

discussions with some of your colleagues?

16

A.

That's correct.

17

Q.

Okay.

Has anyone at Fresno State

18

performed any sort of economic analysis about the

19

pros and cons of leaving Division I football to go

20

to Division II or Division III?

21

MR. CURTNER:

22

You may answer.

23

THE WITNESS:

24

Object to form.

We've had -- I don't know

that there has been a formal paper presented, but

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 50
1

California, just explain to me briefly how that

2

comes.

3

A.

I'm trying to understand.
Well, essentially the legislature

4

allocates an amount to the California State

5

University, in turn then the Chancellor's office

6

allocates to the 23 campuses, and it's usually

7

done -- it's done primarily based upon enrollment.

8

Q.

Right.

So, for example, if you have

9

10,000 students here and another state university

10

has 20,000, then in general they are going to get

13

Q.

And do you know how much the

14

breakdown between the money that comes through the

15

California State University system versus student

16

tuition?

17

A.

Well, roughly 48 percent of our general

18

fund is from the State of California, and 52

19

percent comes from student fees.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 57
1
2

Q.

5

And then the next item, sir, is

"NCAA distributions."

3
4

Okay.

And

If you can explain that, please?
A.

These are distributions that come to the

conference and are distributed -- well, excuse me.

6

NCAA distributions covers the basketball

7

units, revenue based upon the number of sports we

8

offer, revenue for the student-athlete opportunity

9

fund, and then there is a couple of other

10
11

miscellaneous distributions.
Q.

So just so I'm clear, does this money come

12

directly from the NCAA to Fresno State, or is the

13

Western Athletic Conference -- or strike that -- is

14

the Mountain West Conference and before that the

15

Western Athletic Conference an intermediary?

16

A.

The -- for basketball units and the

17

student-athlete opportunity fund, the conference is

18

an intermediary.

19

I think the revenue for the number of

20

sports we offer comes directly from the NCAA.

21
22

Q.

NCAA's source of revenue?

23
24
25

And what is your understanding of the

Where does its revenue come from?
A.

Its primary source of revenue is the men's

basketball contract.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 58

4

Q.

Any other source, to your knowledge?

5

A.

Well, there are other sources, but the --

6

you know, that include sponsorships, other

7

championships, and there is revenue sources there

8

too, but it's pretty small.

9

Q.

But the bulk of the money is from the

10

spring annual basketball tournament known as March

11

Madness?

12

A.

Yes.

13

Q.

And do you have an understanding as to, in

14

general terms, the amount of money that generates

15

in revenue for the NCAA?

16

A.

I don't recall the exact annual figure,

17

the contract is a multi-year contract of over a

18

billion dollars.

19

Q.

Per year?

20

A.

No.

21
22
23
24

Well, per -- I don't know exactly on

that specific amount.
Q.

It's -- regardless, in lay terms, it's a

lot of money?
A.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 59
1
2

BY MR. STEYER:
Q.

3

When the money comes to Fresno State

4

from the conference, I take it that the other

5

schools within the Mountain West Conference share

6

in that revenue stream?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

And how is that allocated?

9
10
11

Is it by

student population or is it a different metric?
A.

No, each university has one share, and

that's allocated based upon the shares, so --

12

Q.

So it's basically pro rata?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

Regardless, if you are the biggest team,

15

and the biggest school in the conference or the

16

smallest?

17
18

A.

Right, it has nothing to do with the

students.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 64

15

Q.

So, for example, you've told us that

16

Fresno State now, on an annual basis, awards 235

17

athletic scholarships; right?

18

A.

(Witness nods head).

19

Q.

Is that correct?

20

A.

Yes.

21

Q.

Does Fresno State have the ability to

22

increase that if it wants, or is that all capped by

23

NCAA rules?

24

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 78
1
2

are the university's rights.
Q.

Okay.

So, for example, if the rules, as a

3

result of this case or otherwise, were to change

4

and they were to allow student-athletes on a

5

deferred basis, for example, pursuant to a group

6

license to participate in some of the revenue

7

stream, Fresno State would still have an economic

8

interest in getting the best broadcast contracts it

9

could; correct?

10

A.

11
12
13

That's correct.
MR. CURTNER:

Object to form.

BY MR. STEYER:
Q.

And it would still be in Fresno State's

14

interest to maximize those contracts as a source of

15

revenue?

16
17

Q.

18

And is it correct that you are saying here that

19

Fresno State does not own the rights of current or

20

former student-athletes, to their name, image or

21

likeness?

22

THE WITNESS:

23

MR. STEYER:

Will you repeat that?
If you could read it back,

24

212-279-9424

www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 79
1
2
3

THE WITNESS:

That's correct.

BY MR. STEYER:
Q.

And it's your understanding that the

4

student-athletes or former student-athletes own the

5

rights to their name, image or likeness?

6

MR. CURTNER:

7

You may answer.

8

THE WITNESS:

9
10
11
12

Object to form.

No, I don't believe that's

correct.
BY MR. STEYER:
Q.

What do you -- can you read it back?

Maybe it wasn't well stated.

13

(The record was read back:

14

Q.

And it's your understanding that

15

25

Q.

212-279-9424

Now, do you have any understanding if a
VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 80
1

student-athlete decides to come here and play, say,

2

football or men's basketball, if they have to sign

3

any forms in order to play on the team?

4
5
6
7
8
9

A.

We do have some forms that they sign, yes,

when they -Q.

And could you tell me what forms they have

to sign in order to play?
A.

Well, I don't know all of the forms, but

they have to do with their agreeing to comply with

10

university rules, regulations, as well as NCAA

11

regulations.

12

Q.

And who prepares the forms?

13

A.

The athletic department.

14

Q.

And do you have any input into that?

15

A.

I do not, no.

16

Q.

And I take it you have never prepared or

17

edited any of the forms?

18

A.

No.

19

Q.

And I take it, and I know it sounds silly,

20

but I'll just ask it anyway, that in your capacity

21

as president of the university, you are not meeting

22

with the incoming student-athletes and going over

23

the forms with them and explaining to them or

24

talking to them about it?

25

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 81

4

Q.

And is it your understanding to the extent

5

whatever forms you require here that if a player, a

6

student-athlete is unwilling to sign it, that he

7

would not be eligible to play on that particular

8

team?

10

12

THE WITNESS:

Q.

That's correct.

Are you aware of any instances during the

13

time that you've been president where a student-

14

athlete refused to sign a particular form that

15

Fresno State required and was still allowed to

16

play?

17

A.

No.

18

Q.

If you could look at paragraph 13,

19

please?

And this is in reference to televised

20

games.

21

are not directly involved in discussing with

22

student-athletes the number of times their team's

23

games may be televised in a given season?

Is it correct that you, as the president,

24

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 82
1

primarily here referring to football and

2

basketball?

3

A.

Well, no.

Actually, you know, more

6

Q.

And then you go on to say, quote, "The

7

number one complaint we receive from coaches and

8

student-athletes alike regarding television

9

appearances is that they would like to be on

10

television more often."

11
12

Has any student-athlete ever approached
you directly and complained about that?

13

A.

Yes.

14

Q.

On how many occasions?

15

A.

I may hear about that five to eight times

16
17

a year.
Q.

Okay.

And when you talk about coaches,

18

are there particular coaches that you have in mind

19

here?

20
21
22

A.

Well, the ones you most frequently hear

from are football and basketball coaches.
Q.

And I take it, obviously, if -- it's the

23

university's goal to have as much exposure for its

24

football and basketball games on television as

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 85

611b

8
9

Q.

highly compensated?

11
12

And I take it that the football coach is

THE WITNESS:

In relation to what?

In

relation to the president, yes.

13

MR. STEYER:

Well, we are going to get --

14

that's the first thing Curtner and I are going to

15

do when we are done here today.

16

BY MR. STEYER:

17
18

Q.
coaches?

19

611b

In relation, say, to all the other

A.

22

Q.

23

And he earns north of a million dollars a

year?

24

A.

No.

25

Q.

Less?

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 86
611b

1

A.

Yes.

2

Q.

How much, approximately?

3

A.

Base is in the neighborhood of 650, plus

4

bonus opportunities.
Q.

6

Okay.

And so that's right, like you are

saying, in the lower percentiles of coaches?

7

A.

Yes.

8

Q.

What I did mean, it was a vague question,

9

is relative to the other coaches here.

10

MR. CURTNER:

Object to the form.

12

Q.

The football coach --

13

A.

Relative to --

14

Q.

-- makes the most salary, the most

15

compensation of all your other athletic coaches?

16

A.

At Fresno State, yes.

17

Q.

And typically the number 2 salaried person

18

is the men's basketball coach?

19

A.

That's correct.

20

Q.

Okay.

Take a look at paragraph 15,

21

please.

22

you talk about the $2.4 million and those other

23

numbers?

24
25

A.

What year are you referring to here when

This is a projection for the -- it would

be the '13-'14 academic year, the 2.4, from the

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 87
611b

1
2

Mountain West.
Q.

Okay.

And when you say, "revenues from

3

institutional and conference television

4

broadcasts," briefly, what are you referring to?

5
6

10

A.

Well, I'm talking about the conference

contract that we have.

Q.

And then the total revenue you are

11

projecting for the next football season is

12

approximately $4 million?

13

A.

That's correct.

20

Q.

And you are saying that the total revenues

21

for men's basketball are approximately $1 million?

22

A.

That's correct.

23

Q.

Also from the same sources?

24

A.

Correct.

25

Q.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 90
1
2
3

pay them, as is outlined in A, B and C there.
Q.

You mean you are saying you don't think --

I'm trying to understand -- you are saying you

4

6

Q.

Okay.

Now, when you talk about student-

7

athletes, do you differentiate in your mind the

8

notion of student-athletes being compensated on a

9

deferred basis when they are former student-

10

athletes, versus being paid while they are actually

11

at university?

12

A.

No, I think paying them either way is --

13

would go beyond what I would consider to be

14

appropriate for an educational institution.

15

Q.

Okay.

But you don't disagree with the

16

notion that collegiate sports, particularly

17

football and men's basketball, has become big

18

business?

21

Q.

And I don't say that in a pejorative way.

22

A.

There -- no, I don't disagree with that.

23

Q.

I mean, there's hundreds of millions of

24

dollars of revenue now in the modern era being

25

generated from the playing of these athletic

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 91
1

events.

2
602
701

A.

That's correct.

3

Q.

Now, you go on to say in your declaration

4

that, "any such state of affairs would be a

5

disaster for intercollegiate athletics and higher

6

education."

7
8

Fair to state that's your opinion;
correct?

9

A.

That is correct.

10

Q.

And why do you think it would be a

11

disaster?

12

A.

Well, I think it would -- and first of

13

all, and I believe there's intercollegiate

14

athletics as part of the educational mission of the

15

institution, and I think if we got into paying

16

student-athletes, particularly if the belief is

17

that you pay football and basketball players, I

18

think it would be illegal under Federal Title IX

19

law.

20

Secondly, I think it would create a

21

situation where you would have, even if you could

22

do that, you would have unevenness between football

23

and basketball players and other intercollegiate

24

athletes, and it goes beyond what I would consider

25

to be part of our educational mission, because a

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 92
602
701

1

student-athlete does receive grant-in-aid, receives

2

lots of other support in order to provide for their

3

educational success.

4

Q.

Then you go on to say that you "know of no

5

college or university president who would support

6

such an approach."

7

Before you signed your declaration, did

8

you speak to any other university presidents on

9

this topic?

10
11
12

A.

There, over the years, have been lots of

discussions on this topic that -Q.

Sure.

And I realize you have been in

13

education for a long time.

14

specifically in the context of preparing this

15

declaration, did you speak to anyone specifically

16

on the topic?

17
18

MR. CURTNER:

I'm asking you

He is trying to give you an

answer and you started interrupting him.

19

So you are free to answer.

20

MR. STEYER:

21

interrupt?

22
23

Oh, I'm sorry, did I

THE WITNESS:

Well, you know, I did not

speak to anyone before doing this declaration, you

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 94
1
2

MR. STEYER:

I think we all know it is

primarily football and basketball.

3

MR. CURTNER:

Same objection.

4

THE WITNESS:

Well, again, I think the --

5

I do not necessarily agree with how some of the pro

6

leagues approach that in terms of student-athletes,

7

but I also recognize they have that opportunity to

8

make a choice if they want to go pro.

9

believe we should be essentially paying student-

10

12

But I don't

athletes to be pros while they are in college.

Q.

Okay.

All right.

Let's take a look at

13

paragraph 17, please.

14

first part of your paragraph, you are saying, well,

15

in your view, your opinion they could -- schools

16

could end up offering different amounts to

17

different student-athletes; is that what you are

18

suggesting there?

19

A.

212-279-9424

And if I understand the

Yes.

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 95

4

So, hypothetically, if there's 15 players

5

on the basketball team and they all shared equally,

6

you wouldn't have that problem that you are

7

articulating?

8
9
10
11

A.

Well, I think there would be a problem

between different institutions, because some would
be able to pay more than others.
Q.

That's what you address, I take it, on the

12

bottom of paragraph 17.

13

you talk about top recruits then mid-level and

14

low-level.

15

please?

16
17

And I wanted to ask you,

Could you define what you mean by that,

MR. CURTNER:

It says, "so-called 'top

recruits.'"

18

MR. STEYER:

Right.

Yeah.

19

MR. CURTNER:

You may answer.

20

THE WITNESS:

Well, again, the -- you

21

know, there's various services and ratings that

22

identify people as top recruits across the country,

23

and that group of student-athletes would be pursued

24

much more aggressively.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 96
602
701

1

Q.

I understand

2

what you are saying, but realistically if someone

3

is a top recruit, isn't it true that, say, in

4

football, that it's unlikely, regardless whether

5

the NCAA rules are changed in the future or not,

6

that the top recruits are still going to end up at,

7

quote, "the major schools," you know, for football,

8

Alabama, Florida, Ohio State, et cetera, and

9

respectfully are probably not going to be

10

considering Fresno State or San Diego State, et

11

cetera?

13

THE WITNESS:

15

Q.

That's true.

And that that probably won't change,

16

regardless if the rules change in the future or

17

not?

19

THE WITNESS:

Well, it may not.

I mean,

20

again, I think if there's different levels paid,

21

that's going to influence the student-athlete

22

probably.

23

BY MR. STEYER:

24

Q.

25

I understand what you are saying.
But if it were, if hypothetically it's on

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 97
602
701

1

a group license basis, the average athlete, the

2

average good high school athlete, USC and UCLA are

3

not going to be recruiting him anyway as a

4

practical matter, wouldn't you agree with that,

5

regardless if they end up sharing some of the

6

revenue?

8

10

THE WITNESS:

Q.

Probably not.

And the same would be true for basketball?

11

MR. CURTNER:

Same objection.

12

THE WITNESS:

Yes.

13
14

BY MR. STEYER:
Q.

All right.

If you could look at -- well,

Q.

If you could look at paragraph 18,

15

602
701

19
20

please?

21

You say, quote, "Introduction of that kind

22

of commercial recruiting compensation -- recruiting

23

competition for and between student-athletes would

24

be devastating to Fresno State's ability to recruit

25

student-athletes."

212-279-9424

Unquote.

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 98
602
701

1

But isn't it true, as we've been

2

discussing, that you are still going to end up

3

recruiting from the same pool, in all likelihood?

5

THE WITNESS:

Not necessarily.

6

I mean, we do get, from time to time we

7

compete with USC or UCLA and are successful, so --

8

BY MR. STEYER:

9

Q.

On occasion it may occur, but would you

10

agree with me that's an outlier, that's not

11

typical?

12
13

MR. CURTNER:

Object to the form.

Asked

and answered.

14

THE WITNESS: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't --

15

it happens not frequently, but certainly from time

16

to time.

17

BY MR. STEYER:

18

Q.

I mean, a smart young lawyer in my office,

19

when he knew I was coming to visit with you, ran --

20

I'm not going to, we don't have time to -- the

21

rosters the last four years for your football team,

22

and as we discussed, generally it's California

23

student-athletes who are coming here, and many even

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 99
602
701

1

Q.

And so wouldn't you agree that in all

2

likelihood that's not going to -- your pool is not

3

going to change that much, regardless if NCAA

4

changed its rules and in the future student-

5

athletes could on a group basis participate in some

6

of the revenue from some of these revenue streams?

7

MR. CURTNER:

Object to the form.

9

THE WITNESS:

No, probably not.

11

Q.

Okay.

Asked

I understand, by the way, you may

12

not agree with it philosophically as an educator,

13

that I get, but in terms of, you know, the

14

actuality, it doesn't seem like much would change?

15

A.

And you also have to realize it's -- under

16

Title IX, it's illegal, so it would force us to

17

change how we approach intercollegiate athletics.

18

Q.

And let me ask you about that.

You had

19

mentioned that, I know, at the end of your

20

declaration on paragraph 22.

21

Have you specifically, as part of your

22

preparing this declaration, researched or looked

23

into any Title IX issues?

24

A.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 101
1

Q.

Right?

Q.

And would you also agree, and I don't have

2
3
4

the numbers off the top of my head, that here at

5

Fresno State, like many institutions, your

6

graduation rates for student-athletes generally

7

speaking are lower than for your general student

8

population?

10
11

THE WITNESS:

That's not correct.

BY MR. STEYER:

12

Q.

How about as to football?

13

A.

They are higher than the general

14
15
16
17
18

population.
Q.

And what are they, if you know, off the

top of your head?
A.

They are in the, I believe, high 50

percentage or the low 60s, for the football team.

19

Q.

And how about men's basketball?

20

A.

They are, I don't know specifically.

21

602

25

There again, I think they are in the 50s.

Q.

212-279-9424

Okay.

Take a look at paragraph 20.
VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

And

212-490-3430

Page 102
602

1

you talk about that it's possible that Fresno State

2

might cease playing Division I or Football Bowl

3

Subdivision sports entirely.

4

studied this; is that a fair statement, sir?

5

A.

I mean, you haven't

No, I have looked at this pretty carefully

6

in terms of the financing of intercollegiate

7

athletics here.

8

Q.

Here at Fresno State?

9

A.

That's correct.

10

Q.

Okay.

Have you looked at it in the

11

context of, you know, some of the major schools

12

that have major football and basketball teams?

13
14
15

A.

I have not reviewed others other than

Fresno State.
Q.

All right.

So I just wanted to show you

16

briefly, this is -- here, I'm going to just give

17

this you copy.

18

I'm just going to show you something.

19

This is Dr. Rascher's report, and

If you take a look -- bear with me one

20

second.

21

at pages 81 and 82 and 83, and he, the -- this is

212-279-9424

Let me find the page for you.

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

If you look

212-490-3430

Page 105

802

9

Q.

You know, if the rules changed and they

10

allowed some form of a group license for the

11

student-athletes, either currently or after

12

eligibility ends, to participate in some of the

13

revenue streams from football and basketball, has

14

anyone told you they would stop playing Division I?

15

A.

I think among discussion among presidents,

16

there have been a lot of discussion about what

17

different form intercollegiate athletics would take

18

if we move outside of that.

19
20

Q.

But no one has specifically said that to

you; correct?

21

MR. CURTNER:

Object to the form.

23

THE WITNESS:

No, that's not correct.

24

I

mean, in discussions we've had, a number of

25

Asked

presidents have taken that position.

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 106
1
2
3
4
5
6

BY MR. STEYER:
Q.

particular that comes to mind?
A.

10

Q.

13

All right.

If you could look at paragraph

And you say that, "If Fresno State were to
move to Division III, all athletics grants-in-aid
would be eliminated."

11
12

I don't know that I can identify the

numerous discussions we've had, no.

8
9

And could you specify any one in

And can you explain why that is, please?
A.

Well, in Division III athletic grants-in-

aids are prohibited.

14

Q.

Okay.

By the NCAA's rules?

15

A.

Yes.

16

Q.

And Division II, you indicate, there would

17

be roughly half of what are awarded today, and

18

what's the basis for that statement?

19
20
21
22
23
24

A.

Well, again, looking at the maximum

allowable scholarships in Division II by sport.
Q.

Okay.

So, for example, football would

shrink from approximately 85 to 42?
A.

43?

Yeah, I think they allow 65, but we also,

I think, would be faced with we probably would not

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430

Page 109

Q.
9

Are there schools within the California

10

State University system that you are aware of who

11

have left Division I, or the FBS form of

12

subdivision of football?

13

A.

There are at least three schools that come

14

to mind that have dropped football that were in,

15

previously in FBS, what is now FBS, Fullerton, Long

16

Beach and Northridge.

17

Q.

Are there other schools within the Cal

18

State system that have not attempted to compete at

19

the Division I level?

20

A.

Yes.

In fact, I think probably a majority

21

of our 23 campuses are either at Division II or

22

Division III.

23

212-279-9424

VERITEXT REPORTING COMPANY
www.veritext.com

212-490-3430