State of Hawaii v. Trump

Filing 198

MEMORANDUM re 65 MOTION for Temporary Restraining Order [MUSLIM ADVOCATES, AMERICAN MUSLIM HEALTH PROFESSIONALS, MUPPIES, INC., THE NATIONAL ARAB AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, AND NETWORK OF ARAB-AMERICAN PROFESSIONALS' BRIEF OF AMICI CURIAE IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER], filed by American Muslim Health Professionals, Muppies, Inc., Muslim Advocates, Network of Arab-American Professionals, The National Arab American Medical Association. (Attachments: # 1 Declaration of Anton A. Ware, # 2 Exhibit 1 - Shutdown Press Release, # 3 Exhibit 2 - Anderson Cooper Interview, # 4 Exhibit 3 - State Rudy Guiliani, # 5 Exhibit 4 - Miller on Fox News, # 6 Exhibit 5 - WaPo Kansas Suspect, # 7 Exhibit 6 - Seattle Kent, # 8 Exhibit 7 - Fire store owner, # 9 Exhibit 8 - WaPo pipe attack, # 10 Exhibit 9 - Spate of mosque fires stretches across the country, # 11 Exhibit 10 - Politico absolute no choice but to close down mosques, # 12 Exhibit 11 - Georgetown Bridge Initiative Trump Cites Flowed Poll, # 13 Exhibit 12 - Republican Candidates Debate in North Charleston, South Carolina, # 14 Exhibit 13 - Transcript Donald Trump's national security speech, # 15 Exhibit 14 - 60 Minutes Trranscript, # 16 Exhibit 15 - Meet the Press, # 17 Exhibit 16 - Presidential Candidates Debates, # 18 Exhibit 17 - Christian Broadcasting Network, # 19 Exhibit 18 - Donald Trump on Twitter defends Muslim ban, calls work a 'horrible mess', # 20 Exhibit 19 - Pew Reseach Center 2016 Refugees, # 21 Exhibit 20 - DJT Tweet, # 22 Exhibit 21 - So called judge tweet, # 23 Exhibit 22 - See you in court tweet, # 24 Exhibit 23 - Sean Spicer press conference, # 25 Exhibit 24 - Stephen Miller key engineer, # 26 Exhibit 25 - Stephen Miller Islamofascism, # 27 Exhibit 26 - Pew Forum, # 28 Exhibit 27 - State Dept Country Report, # 29 Exhibit 28 - DHS, # 30 Exhibit 29 - DOJ Iraqi Kentucky, # 31 Exhibit 30 - Cato, # 32 Exhibit 31 - Lawfare, # 33 Exhibit 32 - Brennan Center, # 34 Exhibit 33 - Letter Former Officials on March 6 EO, # 35 Exhibit 34 - Trump delays new travel ban after well-reviewed speech - CNN Politics, # 36 Exhibit 35 - Families hoping to make the U.S., # 37 Exhibit 36 - Trump Muslim ban is tearing apart families, # 38 Exhibit 37 - Children and Refugees Who Planned Medical Care in the US Stuck After Trump Executive Order - Health News - ABC News Radio, # 39 Exhibit 38 - Trump's Travel Ban, Aimed at Terrorists, Has Blocked Doctors - The New York Times, # 40 Certificate of Service)(Kacprowski, Nickolas) Modified on docket title text on 3/14/2017 (ecs, ).

EXHIBIT 15

2/9/2017

Meet the Press - July 24, 2016 - NBC News

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Meet the Press - July 24, 2016
CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, the Democratic National Convention gets underway here in
Philadelphia, after a raucous and unpredictable Republican convention. That
ended with the nomination of Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP:
I am with you, I will fight for you, and I will win for you.
CHUCK TODD:
This morning, my sit-down with Donald Trump on his convention speech.
DONALD TRUMP:
The only negative reviews were a little dark.
CHUCK TODD:
On whether he's backing off on his Muslim band.
DONALD TRUMP:
I actually don't think it's a pull-back. In fact, you could say it's an expansion.
CHUCK TODD:
And on Hillary Clinton's choice of Tim Kaine.
DONALD TRUMP:
Tim Kaine was a slap in the face to Bernie Sanders.
CHUCK TODD:
Plus Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine hit the road in Florida.
HILLARY CLINTON:
Tim Kaine is everything Donald Trump and Mike Pence are not.
CHUCK TODD:
But some Bernie Sanders supporters are criticizing the Kaine pick as a sellout
to moderates. I'll talk to Sanders and get his reaction to that and to the DNC
Wikileaks e-mail release. Joining me for insight and analysis are MSNBC's
Rachel Maddow, former chairman of the RNC, Michael Steele, NBC News
Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent, Andrea Mitchell, and host of Hardball and
Philadelphia hometown boy, Chris Matthews. Trump, Sanders and reactions to
the new Democratic ticket. Welcome to Sunday, in a special edition of Meet the
Press at the Democratic National Convention.
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CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. We are at the Wells Fargo Center here in South
Philadelphia, home of the NBA 76ers and the NHL Broad Street Bullies, the
Fliers. Democrats have begun to arrive, along with a pretty bad heat wave.
And beginning tomorrow, they will gather to officially nominate Hillary Clinton
as their presidential candidate.
Yesterday in Miami, Clinton was joined by her new running mate, Senator Tim
Kaine of Virginia, in an upbeat event that was notable simply by the contrast to
the disorganized rollout of Donald Trump's running mate a week earlier, Mike
Pence.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEN. TIM KAINE:
Hillary Clinton, she doesn't insult people, she listens to them. What a novel
concept, right? She doesn't trash our allies, she respects them. And she'll
always have our backs, that is something I am rock solid sure of.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
We will get to reaction to the new Democratic ticket later in the show, including
my interview with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont in a moment. But first,
we're going to talk also about Sanders, about those Wikileaks emails and what
they may say about DNC favoritism towards Hillary Clinton. But we begin with
the man who has now taken control of the Republican Party. It's nominee
Donald Trump.
I traveled to Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey, sort of his
weekend getaway, last night for a face-to-face interview since dropping the
word "presumptive," it's his first one, from the nominee title. We touched on so
much: Tim Kaine, Trump's tax returns, his proposed restrictions on Muslim
immigration and why he says he alone can fix the country's problems. But I
began by asking him how it feels to be the Republican nominee for president of
the United States.
(BEGIN TAPE)
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, it really feels great. And we really have a very unified party, other than a
very small group of people that, frankly, lost. And we have a very unified party.
You saw that the other night with the love in the room, and the enthusiasm in
the room. The enthusiasm, there are people that say they have never seen
anything like what was going on in that room, especially Thursday night.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me tell you, you bring up Thursday night, I've got to ask you about your
entrance. Before we get serious here. That Monday night entrance was
something else. I know you've gotten a lot of feedback on it. How'd you come
up with it?
DONALD TRUMP:
I think I'm a little bit lucky, and a couple of people had that idea and I went
along with the idea. And everything just worked right. And it was so good that
they wanted to do it on Thursday night. I said, "Never in a million years,
because you'll never get it that way again."
CHUCK TODD:
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I don't think I've seen that even on WWE.
DONALD TRUMP:
Yeah, I know. Well, Vince is a good friend of mine. He called me, he said, "That
was a very, very good entrance." But I didn't want to do it a second time,
because, you know, it never works out the second time.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let's go into the speech. I want to put some meat on the bones. But
first, let's talk about, you've seen some of the positive reviews, some of the
negative reviews. Some of the negative has been that it was a little dark-DONALD TRUMP:
That's the only thing that-CHUCK TODD:
--that there wasn't enough optimism in it. What would you say? It's not Morning
in America.
DONALD TRUMP:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
What would you say to that?
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I think the only negativity, and, you know, the hate, I call them the haters,
and that's fine. But the only negative reviews were, "A little dark." And the
following day, they had another attack, and then today you see what happened
in Afghanistan with many, many people killed.
They have no idea how many, so many killed. Yesterday it was Munich. And
you know, I know they're saying, "Maybe it wasn't terrorism. Maybe it was just
a crazy guy." But in the meantime he's screaming, "Allahu Akbar," as he's
shooting people, so, you know, we'll see how that turns out. And all of a
sudden people are saying, "Maybe it wasn't dark at all." But the only thing that
some people said, "It was a little dark. It was a little bit tough."
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think it was a little dark?
DONALD TRUMP:
No, oh, I thought it was very optimistic. To me, it was an optimistic speech,
because-CHUCK TODD:
What makes it optimistic in your view?
DONALD TRUMP:
Because we're going to stop the problems. We're going to stop the problems.
In other words, sure, I talk about the problems, but we're going to solve the
problems.
CHUCK TODD:

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One of the phrases you used, "I alone can fix it." And to some people, that
sounded almost too strong-mannish for them. Do you understand that criticism
and what do you make of it?
DONALD TRUMP:
I'll tell you, part of it was I'm comparing myself to Hillary. And we know Hillary,
and we look at her record. Her record has been a disaster. And I am running
against Hillary. It's not like I'm running against the rest of the world. I know
people that are very, very capable that could do a very good job, but they could
never get elected.
I can tell you right now. I can give you ten names of people that would do an
extraordinary job, but there's no way they could ever get elected. They
wouldn't know where to begin. It wouldn't be for them. But for governing, they
would be good. I'm running and, you know, against one person.
CHUCK TODD:
You said there would be consequences for any company that tried to move a
factory out. What-DONALD TRUMP:
Absolutely, so simple-CHUCK TODD:
--what is the consequence? Let's start with, you bring up Carrier a lot.
DONALD TRUMP:
It's so simple-(OVERTALK)
CHUCK TODD:
Right, I understand that. But explain the consequences-DONALD TRUMP:
Okay, here's the consequence-CHUCK TODD:
What would it be?
DONALD TRUMP:
So Carrier comes in, they announce they're moving to Mexico, they fire all their
people in Indiana, and they say, "Hi, well, here we are in Mexico, you know,
enjoy your plant, enjoy the rest of your life," and you hire people from Mexico,
okay? Now they make their product and they put it into the United States.
Well, we will have a very strong border, by the way, but they put it into the
United States and we don't charge them tax. There will be a tax to be paid. If
they're going to fire all their people, move their plant to Mexico, build air
conditioners, and think they're going to sell those air conditioners to the United
States, there's going to be a tax.
CHUCK TODD:
What kind of tax are you thinking?
DONALD TRUMP:
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It could be 25 percent. It could be 35 percent. It could be 15 percent. I haven't
determined. And it could be different for different companies. We have been
working on trying to stop this government, because we don't know what we're
doing. And not only Obama, they've been trying to stop this from before
Obama. But they don't know. You know, they've done, they've tried lower
interest loans, they've tried zero interest loans, these guys-CHUCK TODD:
Well, some of these things aren't going to get through the World Trade
Organization. There's-DONALD TRUMP:
It doesn't matter. Then we're going to renegotiate or we're going to pull out.
These trade deals are a disaster, Chuck. World Trade Organization is a
disaster.
CHUCK TODD:
You know the concern on some of this-DONALD TRUMP:
NAFTA is a disaster-CHUCK TODD:
-- is that it would rattle the world economy. Look what Brexit did to the world
economy. Investors got rattled.
DONALD TRUMP:
What did it do? What did it do?
CHUCK TODD:
Now you-DONALD TRUMP:
The stock market's higher now than it was when it happened. And by the way,
I'm the only one of all of these people at the higher level of the wonderful world
of politics, I'm the only one that said, "Brexit's going to happen." Remember, I
was asked the question. I said, "Yeah, I think they're going to approve it. I think
they want independence. I don't think they want people pouring into their
country." And I was-CHUCK TODD:
You're not worried about, you think a fractured Europe is good for America?
DONALD TRUMP:
No, no. But we're spending a lot of money on Europe. Don't forget, Europe got
together, why, primarily did they get together? So that they could beat the
United States when it comes to making money, in other words, foreign trade-CHUCK TODD:
Economic-DONALD TRUMP:
Okay? And now we talk about Europe like it's so wonderful. Hey, I love Europe,
I have property in Europe. I'm just saying, the reason that it got together was
like a consortium so that it could compete with the United States-http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-july-24-2016-n615706

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CHUCK TODD:
So what you're saying is all this stuff is good for America, even if it's not good
for Europe?
DONALD TRUMP:
Look, you take a look at Airbus. They make more planes now than Boeing,
okay? They got together, all of these countries got together so that they could
beat the United States. Okay, so we're in competition. So you know, we're in
competition in one way, we're helping them in another way. It is so messed up.
CHUCK TODD:
The Muslim ban. I think you've pulled back from it, but you tell me.
(BEGIN TAPE)
DONALD TRUMP:
We must immediately suspend immigration from any nation that has been
compromised by terrorism until such time as proven vetting mechanisms have
been put in place.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
This feels like a slight rollback-DONALD TRUMP:
I don't think that's-CHUCK TODD:
Should it be interpreted-DONALD TRUMP:
I don't think so. I actually don't think it's a rollback. In fact, you could say it's an
expansion. I'm looking now at territories. People were so upset when I used
the word Muslim. Oh, you can't use the word Muslim. Remember this. And I'm
okay with that, because I'm talking territory instead of Muslim.
But just remember this: Our Constitution is great. But it doesn't necessarily
give us the right to commit suicide, okay? Now, we have a religious, you know,
everybody wants to be protected. And that's great. And that's the wonderful
part of our Constitution. I view it differently.
Why are we committing suicide? Why are we doing that? But you know what? I
live with our Constitution. I love our Constitution. I cherish our Constitution.
We're making it territorial. We have nations and we'll come out, I'm going to be
coming out over the next few weeks with a number of the places. And it's very
complex-CHUCK TODD:
Well I was just going to say-DONALD TRUMP:
--we have problems in Germany and we have problems with France-CHUCK TODD:
I was just going to ask that. Will this limitt-http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-july-24-2016-n615706

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DONALD TRUMP:
You know, so it's not just the countries with-CHUCK TODD:
--would this limit immigration from France?
DONALD TRUMP:
What we're going to have is a thing called-CHUCK TODD:
They've been compromised by terrorism.
DONALD TRUMP:
They have totally been. And you know why? It's their own fault. Because they
allowed people to come into their territory-CHUCK TODD:
So you would toughen up. You're basically saying, "Hey, if the French want to
come over here, you've got to go through an extra check."
DONALD TRUMP:
It's their own fault, because they've allowed people over years to come into
their territory. And that's why Brexit happened, okay? Because the U.K. is
saying, "We're tired of this stuff, what's going on, we're tired of." But listen to
this-CHUCK TODD:
You could get to the point where you're not allowing a lot of people to come
into this country from a lot of places.
DONALD TRUMP:
Maybe we get to that point. Chuck, look what's happening. Look at what just
took place in Afghanistan, where they blow up a whole shopping center with
people, they have no idea how many people were even killed. Happened
today. So we have to be smart and we have to be vigilant and we have to be
strong. We can't be the stupid people-CHUCK TODD:
So France, Germany, Spain-DONALD TRUMP:
Here's my plan-CHUCK TODD:
--places that have been compromised?
DONALD TRUMP:
--here is what I want: Extreme vetting. Tough word. Extreme vetting.
CHUCK TODD:
What does that look like?
DONALD TRUMP:
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Tough. We're going to have tough standards. And if a person can't prove-CHUCK TODD:
Give me one.
DONALD TRUMP:
--that they're from an area, and if a person can't prove what they have to be
able to prove, they're not coming into this country. And I would stop the Syrian
migration and the Syrian from coming into this country in two seconds. Hillary
Clinton wants to take 550 percent more people coming in from that area than
Barack Obama. I think she's crazy. I think she's crazy. We have no idea who
these people are for the most part, and you know, because I've seen them on
different shows-CHUCK TODD:
All right.
DONALD TRUMP:
--but more importantly, I've read about it. I study it. There is no way that you
can vet some of these people. There is no way. Law enforcement officials, I've
had them in my office. I've talked to them.
CHUCK TODD:
You realize some of these folks have nowhere to go? They're truly victims of
this civil war, what do you do with them?
DONALD TRUMP:
We will help them and we will build safe havens over in Syria, and we will get
Gulf States-CHUCK TODD:
We, the United States are going to build these safe havens?
DONALD TRUMP:
We, the United States, we'll get Gulf States to pay for it, because we right now,
we're going to have $21 trillion very soon, trillion, in debt. We will do safe
havens and safe zones in Syria and we will get nations that are so wealthy that
are not doing anything. They're not doing much. They have nothing but money.
And you know who I'm talking about, the Gulf States. And we will get them to
pay for it. We would lead it. I don't want to pay because our country is going
down the tubes. We owe too much money.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Let me move to something with NATO. Mitch McConnell said this
about your NATO remarks in the New York Times. He said it was a rookie
mistake, and that once you, let me finish the comment here. "It's a rookie
mistake, and it proves that Trump needs people like us around to help steer
him in the right direction on some basic things."
DONALD TRUMP:
He's 100 percent wrong. Okay? He's 100 percent wrong if he said that. I didn't
hear he said that-CHUCK TODD:
He did say it.
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DONALD TRUMP:
Okay, fine, fine-CHUCK TODD:
New York Times-DONALD TRUMP:
If he said that, he's 100 percent wrong. And frankly it's sad. We have NATO,
and we have many countries that aren't paying for what they're supposed to be
paying, which is already too little, but they're not paying anyway. And we're
giving them a free ride or giving them a ride where they owe us tremendous
amounts of money. And they have the money. But they're not paying it. You
know why? Because they think we're stupid-CHUCK TODD:
So Estonia is paying, and if they get invaded by Russia, you're there?
DONALD TRUMP:
I feel differently. I feel very differently-CHUCK TODD:
But if a country's not doing -- Britain hasn't done the two percent.
DONALD TRUMP:
We have countries that aren't paying. Now, this goes beyond NATO, because
we take care of-- we take care of Japan, we take care of Germany, we take
care of South Korea, we take care of Saudi Arabia, and we lose on everything.
We lose on everything. If Mitch McConnell says that, then he's wrong.
So all I'm saying is they have to pay. Now, a country gets invaded, they haven't
paid, everyone says, "Oh, but we have a treaty." Well, they have a treaty too.
They're supposed to be paying. We have countries within NATO that are taking
advantage of us. With me, I believe they're going to pay. And when they pay,
I'm a big believer in NATO.
But if they don't pay, we don't have, you know, Chuck, this isn't 40 years ago.
This isn't 50 years ago. It's not 30 years ago. We're a different country today.
We're much weaker, our military is depleted, we owe tremendous amounts of
money. We have to be reimbursed. We can no longer be the stupid country.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, what Donald Trump says about David Duke, Bernie
Sanders, and whether he really plans to spend millions for the sole purpose of
defeating Ted Cruz and John Kasich. Sanders about Trump and about his
reaction to Tim Kaine becoming Hillary Clinton's running mate. We're in
Philadelphia, site of the Democratic National Convention. Stay with us.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Such a beautiful city here. Welcome back. More now of my interview with
Donald Trump at The Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey.
And since we had a limited amount of time, I ended up speeding things up by
asking Trump for some quick reaction to simply some very prominent names in
the news.
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(BEGIN TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
I'm just going to literally throw out a name and you'll know the question I'm
asking. Bernie Sanders.
DONALD TRUMP:
Great respect for what he's done. He is being taken advantage of, and frankly,
the system was rigged, and I'm the first one to say it was rigged against him.
And by the way-CHUCK TODD:
You took after him. You took after him. You said for supporting Hillary Clinton,
you think he needs to-DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I'm not a fan of Bernie Sanders. But I am a fan of one thing that he talks
about: Trade. He is the only one on that side that understands trade. Now, he
can't do anything about it because that's not his thing. But he has been gamed.
He has been, it's a rigged system against him. And what happened with the
choice of Tim Kaine was a slap in the face to Bernie Sanders and everybody. I
was shocked. I love it from my standpoint, I love-CHUCK TODD:
Why do you love the Kaine pick?
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, first of all, he took over $160,000 of gifts. And they said, "Well, they
weren't really gifts, they were suits and trips and lots of different things," all for
160-CHUCK TODD:
Legal, legal in the state of Virginia.
DONALD TRUMP:
Bob McDonnell-- I believe it was Bob McDonnell, in the meantime, he had to
go to the United States Supreme Court to get out of going to jail-CHUCK TODD:
Well, they proved to quid pro quo-DONALD TRUMP:
--for taking a fraction of what-CHUCK TODD:
They proved quid pro quo on that one.
DONALD TRUMP:
Excuse me, Bob McDonnell took a fraction of what Kaine took. And I think, to
me, it's a big problem. Now, how do you take all these gifts? Hundreds of
thousands of dollars. The other thing about him, he's bought and owned by the
banks. And the third thing, he's in favor of TPP and every other trade deal that
he's ever looked at. And that means he wants people not to work.

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Now, he's going to change his tune. And I understand he's now going to say,
"I'm against TPP." Hillary Clinton was totally in favor of TPP, which is the job
killer, right? So was he. When she watched me on your show and other shows,
all of a sudden she changed, because she knows she can't win that in a
debate.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Ted Cruz, I'm going to amend it, are you really going to fund a super
PAC to help defeat him-DONALD TRUMP:
Well, it's not the number one thing on my mind. Look, what's on my mind is
beating Hillary Clinton. What's on my mind is winning for the Republican Party.
With that being said, yeah, I'll probably do a super PAC, you know, when they
run against Kasich, for $10 million to $20 million, against Ted Cruz. And maybe
one other person that I'm thinking about-CHUCK TODD:
Who's that other one person?
DONALD TRUMP:
--but I won't tell you that. I mean, he's actually such a small person, I hate to
give him the publicity. But yes, I will probably do that at the appropriate at time.
But I'm not going to do that until-CHUCK TODD:
Oh, give me the small person here.
DONALD TRUMP:
No, no, don't worry about it. We'll give it to you another time.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let me ask you about this one. David Duke announced his Senate
candidacy claiming your agenda for his own, or essentially saying, "Glad that
you spoke out."
DONALD TRUMP:
Are you ready, before you ask the question?
CHUCK TODD:
Newt Gingrich said, "Every Republican should repudiate this guy no matter
what it takes"-DONALD TRUMP:
I did. And I do. Are you ready? I want-CHUCK TODD:
Would you support a Democrat over David Duke if that was what was
necessary to defeat him?
DONALD TRUMP:
I guess, depending on who the Democrat, but the answer would be yes. Look,
the answer is, as quick as you can say it. In fact, I went to answer you before
you-http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-july-24-2016-n615706

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DONALD TRUMP:
Because last time with another person in your position, I did it very quickly.
And they said, "He didn't do it fast enough." Rebuked. Is that okay? Rebuked,
done-CHUCK TODD:
Rebuked, done. Okay. Tax returns. A lot of conspiracy theories are being out
there about why-- what's in your tax returns. You would get rid of all these
conspiracy theories tomorrow-DONALD TRUMP:
Let me tell you-CHUCK TODD:
Probably make people look silly-DONALD TRUMP:
Let me tell you. Let me give you a little lesson on tax returns. First of all, you
don't learn very much from a tax return. I put in to the federal elections group
100 and some-odd pages of my financials. It showed, as you know, that I'm
much wealthier than anybody even understood, okay? Tremendous cash,
tremendous assets, tremendous all that stuff. Okay, that's it. I'm going through
a routine audit. Just a routine audit, and I've had it for I think 14 years, 13
years-CHUCK TODD:
Why?
DONALD TRUMP:
Every year they audit me. It's routine government. I would never give my tax
returns until the audit's finished. But remember this: Mitt Romney, four years
ago, was under tremendous pressure to give his tax returns. And he held it and
held it and held it, and he fought it, and he, you know, he didn't do too well,
okay? But he didn't do anything wrong on his taxes. When he gave his tax
returns, people forget, not now. He gave them in September, before the
election-CHUCK TODD:
So you still might release them-DONALD TRUMP:
No, wait a minute, wait a minute. When he did, and his tax returns are a tiny
peanut compared to mine, they went through his tax returns. And they found
one little sentence, another little-- there was nothing wrong. And they made
him look bad. In fact I think he lost his election because of that.
CHUCK TODD:
Because of the tax returns?
DONALD TRUMP:
I think he lost. And I'll tell you why: He didn't do anything wrong. Mitt Romney
did nothing wrong. But they would take out of, his weren't too big. Have you
ever seen mine with the picture, they're like this high?
CHUCK TODD:
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I have seen that picture, yes.
DONALD TRUMP:
Okay, so they took his tax return and they found a couple of little things.
Nothing wrong, just standard. And they made him look very bad, very unfair.
But with all that said, I'd love to give them, but I'm under audit. When the
audit's finished I'll give them.
CHUCK TODD:
Finally, Roger Ailes. Is he helping you? Is he advising you?
DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I don't want to comment. But he's been a friend of mine for a long time,
and I can tell you that some of the women that are complaining, I know how
much he's helped them. And even recently, and when they write books that are
fairly recently released, and they say wonderful things about him.
And now all of a sudden they're saying these horrible things about him. It's
very sad. Because he's a very good person. I've always found him to be just a
very, very good person. And by the way, a very, very talented person. Look
what he's done. So I feel very badly. But a lot of people are thinking he's going
to run my campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, well-DONALD TRUMP:
My campaign's doing pretty well.
CHUCK TODD:
Mr. Trump, until we meet again.
DONALD TRUMP:
Thank you very much-CHUCK TODD:
Thank you for your time, sir, appreciate it.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Up next, the man who had hoped to be the candidate being nominated by
Democrats right here in Philadelphia this week, Senator Bernie Sanders of
Vermont. What does he think of those leaked DNC e-mails? We'll get his first
comments since it happened. We're going to be right back in just a minute.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
(BEGIN TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Tremendous shots there of a beautiful city. Welcome back. It's not the kind of
thing you want happening days before your convention. This weekend,
Wikileaks released nearly 20,000 emails sent and received by members of the
Democratic National Committee, some of which seem to confirm what a lot of
people had suspected, that the DNC was playing favorites with Hillary Clinton
over Bernie Sanders.
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It appears Wikileaks either stole these emails or got them from a source.
Remember, the DNC was hacked a few months ago. Among the emails was
one from the DNC's Chief Financial Officer Brad Marshall that was looking
ahead to the contests in Kentucky and West Virginia in early May. While not
mentioning Sanders specifically by name, the email appeared to question
Sanders' faith.
He wrote this, quote: "Does he believe in a god? I think I read he is an atheist.
This could make several points difference with my peeps. My Southern Baptist
peeps would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist." Well,
Sanders has long believed that DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz was in
Clinton's corner the whole campaign. Well, he joins me now. Senator Sanders,
welcome back to Meet the Press.
And I should note that you talked about your belief in God last fall in an
interview, I think, with your hometown paper there, so want to get that out of
the way. So let me start with this question questioning your faith. Brad Marshall
apologized on Facebook. Has anyone apologized to you personally? And what
is your response to this entire discussion?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, no, nobody has apologized to me. And as you just mentioned, this really
does not come as a shock to me or my supporters. There is no question but
the DNC was on Secretary Clinton's side from day one. We all know that. And I
think, as I have said a long time ago, that the time is now for Debbie
Wasserman Schultz to step aside, not only for these issues.
We need a Democratic Party that is open, that's going to bring young people
and working people into it, that is going to stand up and take on the big money
interests and fight for working families. I don't think Debbie has been that type
of leader. So I would hope, and I said this many months ago, that she would-CHUCK TODD:
Right.
BERNIE SANDERS:
--step aside, we would have new leadership.
CHUCK TODD:
And do you think it needs to happen now, today, before the start of the
convention?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well-CHUCK TODD:
Would that help calm some of your supporters down?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I think what is already happening is that it's clear she is not going to be
speaking to the convention. That is the right thing. I think right now what we
have got to focus on as Democrats is defeating perhaps the worst Republican
candidate that I have seen in my lifetime. Donald Trump would be a disaster
for this country. He must be defeated.
We've got to elect Secretary Clinton on every single issue: fighting for the
middle class on health care, on climate change, is a far, far superior candidate
to Trump. That's where I think the focus has got to be.
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CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe that the DNC's apparent favoritism cost you this race?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I think you-- there are a lot of reasons why one loses. We started off 50
points behind Secretary Clinton. We had the opposition of virtually the entire
Democratic leadership in every state in this country. And by the way, in terms
of media, we did not get the kind of media attention that somebody like a
Donald Trump got, because media is not necessarily interested in the issues
facing the middle class, more interested in attacks in personality. So I think
there were a lot of reasons.
But I will tell you this, Chuck, from the bottom of my heart, I am extraordinarily
proud of the campaign that we ran. The issues that we raised, the fact that we
got 13 million Americans to vote for a political revolution. People who know the
economy is rigged in favor of big money, people who know that our middle
class continues to decline and we have to go outside of establishment politics
and economics, people who know that we need to reform a broken criminal
justice system and we need comprehensive immigration reform.
The people-- what we did in our campaign is bring people together to say, "You
know what? This country, our government, belongs to all of us and not just a
few." So I am very proud of the campaign we ran and the supporters that came
on board.
CHUCK TODD:
So just to sum up here, these leaks, these emails, it hasn't given you any
pause about your support for Hillary Clinton?
BERNIE SANDERS:
No, no, no. We are going to do everything that we can to protect working
families in this country. And again, Chuck, I know media is not necessarily
focused on these things. But what a campaign is about is not Hillary Clinton,
it's not Donald Trump. It is the people of this country, people who are working
longer hours for lower wages, people who do not have health care or are
underinsured.
Hillary Clinton and I have worked together on a higher education proposal
which will guarantee free tuition in public colleges and universities for every
family in this country making $125,000 a year or less. We're going to fight for
paid family and medical leave. Those are the issues that the American people
want to hear discussed, and I'm going to go around the country discussing
them and making sure that Hillary Clinton is elected president.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, The Green Party presumptive nominee, Jill Stein, put out a release
yesterday about the emails. And she said this: "Democratic Party elites have
been caught red-handed, sabotaging a grassroots campaign that tried to bring
huge numbers of young people, independents and non-voters into their party.
Instead, they have shown exactly why America needs a new major party, a
truly democratic party for the people." Are you going to urge your supporters
not to support Jill Stein and try to thwart her efforts to recruit your supporters?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, you know, let me just say this. As the longest serving Independent in the
history of the United States Congress, as somebody who came into office by
defeating an incumbent Democratic mayor in Burlington, Vermont, I know
something about third party politics. And I respect Jill.
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But right now, the focus, to my mind, is to make sure that Donald Trump does
not become president of the United States. I think by temperament he is
unqualified to be president. I think his views-- you have a guy who's running for
president who rejects science, doesn't even believe climate change is real, let
alone wants to do something about it, wants to give hundreds of billions of
dollars in tax breaks to the top two-tenths of one percent.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you-BERNIE SANDERS:
So my job right now is to see that Donald Trump is defeated, Hillary Clinton is
elected.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, he makes a big deal out of the fact that you and he agree on one
big issue, and that is trade deals, that these trade deals have been bad for the
country. And he basically says that Clinton and Kaine, as a ticket, aren't-- that
their opposition, for instance, the TPP as sort of Johnny-come-lately, that it
can't be trusted, and that Sanders supporters should support Trump if they
care about trade. What do you say to that?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I think in terms of who can be trusted, I think the evidence is clear that
there has been no candidate that I have ever seen who lies more often than
does Donald Trump. I mean and that's just not me saying it, that's what any
independent media analysis has shown. So in terms of trust, you really can't
trust a word, I think, that Mr. Trump has to say.
In terms of the TPP, it is no secret. I think our trade policies, for many, many
years, have been a disaster. They have benefited corporate America at the
expense of working people. Secretary Clinton has come out in opposition to
the TPP, does not want to see it-CHUCK TODD:
Right.
BERNIE SANDERS:
--appear in the lame duck Congress. That's my view, as well.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, some of your supporters are disappointed in the pick of Tim Kaine,
that he's not progressive enough. I know Tim Kaine called you after he was
picked. Do you consider Tim Kaine a progressive? And are you happy with this
pick?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, you know, the pick is Secretary Clinton's. I've known Tim Kaine for a
number of years. We've served in the Senate together, obviously. Tim is a very,
very smart guy. He's a very nice guy. His political views are not my political
views. He is more conservative than I am. Would I have preferred to see
somebody like an Elizabeth Warren selected by Secretary Clinton? Yes, I
would have.
CHUCK TODD:

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And then finally, do you feel as if, that you, when you got Glass-Steagall, I
wanted to ask about this, because it looks like the one thing that both parties
may agree on in their platforms is putting-- is being in favor of reinstating
Glass-Steagall. Does this mean we will see that happen in the next Congress?
BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I'm going to do everything that I can to make it happen. You know, when
we talk about our campaign, one of the things that we have been able to do,
Chuck, is create the most progressive Democratic platform in the history of the
Democratic Party, and that includes breaking up the large Wall Street banks
and reestablishing Glass-Steagall.
I think the American people understand that we cannot continue to have a
handful of reckless, irresponsible banks often acting illegally, that something
has to happen. They have to be broken up.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, Senator Bernie Sanders. The big speech is tomorrow night. We'll be
waiting for you here in a very, very hot Philadelphia, over 100 degrees.
BERNIE SANDERS:
Okay.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Sanders, thanks for coming on. Good to see you, sir.
BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you very much.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, reaction to Hillary Clinton's choice of Tim Kaine as a
running mate, who showed why he might have appeal, unique appeal, to a
very important voting bloc.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEN. TIM KAINE:
Aprendilo valores de mi pueblo--faith, familia, y trabajo.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD
And we'll be back in a moment from Philadelphia with this great panel. Rachel
Maddow, Michael Steele, Andrea Mitchell, and Chris Matthews. Stay tuned.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
And we'll be back in a moment from Philadelphia with this great panel, Rachel
Maddow, Michael Steele, Andrea Mitchell, and Chris Matthews. Stay tuned.
***COMMERCIAL TAPE***
CHUCK TODD:
We are back. So much to talk about already. Our panel is here, Rachel
Maddow, host of The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC, former chairman of
the Republican National Committee, Michael Steele, he's sort of the fish out of
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water here in Philadelphia. Andrea Mitchell, NBC News, Chief Foreign Affairs
Correspondent, host, of course, of Andrea Mitchell Reports on MSNBC. And a
Philadelphia native himself, Mr. Brotherly Love Chris Matthews, host of
Hardball-RACHEL MADDOW:
Mr. Brotherly Love?
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
And sisterly affection.
CHUCK TODD:
--Sisterly affection here for the Penn grad.
CHUCK TODD:
And-- this morning by the way we have new pictures of Tim Kaine walking into
church this morning in Richmond, Virginia. He now realizes, and now his
parish is realizing, what it's like to have Secret Service following around a
member of the parish there. All right.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Know what his Secret Service name is going to be yet?
CHUCK TODD:
What do we think the code name should be?
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But we're not sure-RACHEL MADDOW:
Well, the big joke was that if you're boring enough, your Secret Service name
is Tim Kaine.
CHUCK TODD:
Ooh.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Right? That-CHUCK TODD:
Those are old Johnny Carson and Jay Leno, Al Gore jokes-CHUCK TODD:
All right, you guys are having already too much fun.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Sorry, sorry.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me just throw it out here. We heard what Bernie Sanders said about Tim
Kaine. It was, that was tougher than I expected.
RACHEL MADDOW:

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"His politics are not my politics."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
That's really -RACHEL MADDOW:
"He does not share my political views." That's an aggressive take from Bernie.
I'm not surprised. Bernie's an aggressive politician. And I think when Senator
Sanders speaks at the DNC, I think everybody's going to be on the edge of
their seat. I think that he is not going to pull a Ted Cruz because he's already
made an endorsement.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, he said, "I'm for Hillary," and he was tough on Trump.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah. And but he doesn't relish going after Trump. He likes going after the
Democratic Party to try to move the Democratic Party. That's his target, always
has been.
MICHAEL STEELE:
It's still obvious, he's not 'Feeling the Bern' for Hillary. And that was very
obvious. And when you asked about the trust question, he didn't say he trusted
Hillary Clinton. He said he didn't trust Donald Trump. So the reality of it is
there's still some tension there that Bernie is reflecting among his supporters.
And it was evident there. I mean-RACHEL MADDOW:
He's got a mission that's bigger than one election. He always has.
MICHAEL STEELE:
That's true.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And in fact, he could quiet the march that is planned to go from the center of
Center City, and Rittenhouse Square all the way down at Independence Hall.
This march is going to disrupt the city today, no matter how peaceful, because
this is a city, in 100-degree heat, that is planning for a convention. And it's
going to be a very large outpouring. He also said-CHUCK TODD:
And by the way, the hotter it is, the crankier people will be.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Yeah. And he also says that Tim Kaine doesn't share his politics, not only that,
but that he would have preferred Elizabeth Warren. He made it very clear; Tim
Kaine is a nice guy, but he's not endorsing or embracing someone who Hillary
Clinton -CHUCK TODD:
There's a painful look in your face, Chris.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
--called Tim Kaine a progressive.
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CHRIS MATTHEWS:
He didn't get to pick. Hillary Clinton did. And I've watched Hillary Clinton. I've
watched a lot of politicians over the years. You can tell when they're actually
happy, not when they fake the laugh or anything else. She looked delighted
during his speech yesterday. And I haven't seen her that delighted in a long
time. She had found her guy to be her running mate. I think she loved it.
And I think one thing we're getting all excited about, I understand why the
progressives are upset. But one thing historically we all know is the selection
of a vice president is a poor predictor of the direction of that administration.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
FDR picked John Nance Garner-RACHEL MADDOW:
It's not a policy pick.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Kennedy picked another conservative from the south, Lyndon Johnson,
relatively conservative. And then we got the New Deal out of that and we got
the Great Society we got the New Frontier. It's a poor predictor. Now, if this is
about spoils, they've got an argument. They wanted a piece of the action. But
there's differences between spoils and direction.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to throw out the one thing that Trump's trying to hit Kaine on, well, two
things. But the one big one is the gifts in Virginia.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
I only throw it out there is that I heard Ed Rendell ask to defend it. And he
struggled, Andrea. He said, "Well, it's illegal in Pennsylvania."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Virginia-CHUCK TODD:
Okay. And it's legal in Virginia. That wasn't exactly a resounding defense.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Yeah. Virginia has a very strange, let's face it, strange gift law. The difference
with Bob McDonnell, who was convicted, and then the Supreme Court
overturned it, is there was no quid pro quo. He declared it. That was the main
thing. He declared everything, put it down, in fact, computed higher numbers to
staying in friends' houses. He put everything down. He was meticulous about
it.
So they don't think there's a big ethics thing. Just on his progressivity or lack of
it, he has this civil rights background. I mean I was in the room. And what you
saw on T.V. yesterday in Miami, in that largely Hispanic campus, that wonderful
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campus in Miami, it was extraordinary. The enthusiasm for him and the
affection. And having watched her all of these years, you're absolutely right,
Chris-CHUCK TODD:
You know-ANDREA MITCHELL:
--she found her guy. She was a happy camper.
RACHEL MADDOW:
He's not a progressive, but they will tell a very progressive story about his
history. The party has moved to the left while he sort of always been a solid
liberal.
CHUCK TODD:
Both of them are trying to-ANDREA MITCHELL:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
I feel like both Clinton and Kaine are trying to catch up to the party's
movement.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
That's so true.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, on guns he was always there. He was heroic in Virginia on gun laws.
CHUCK TODD:
That they're moving-- and Michael, let me ask you this. The Trump camping
says, "We love the Kaine pick." And here's their reasoning. They love the
Kaine pick because it reinforces that they're the political professionals, that
here's Tim Kaine, and all he's done in life, is been in office for the last 25
years.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
And the whole point of Trump is Trump's Mr. "I'm the total outsider." If they
want to double down on that, fine, go ahead. What do you say?
RACHEL MADDOW:
Except Mike Pence
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right, right, right.
CHUCK TODD:
They pay no attention to that. I brought that brought to them. I said, "What
about Pence?" And they're like, "Well, it's the top of the ticket."
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MICHAEL STEELE:
"Ignore that man behind the curtain."
CHUCK TODD:
What do you say to that? Did they have a point or not?
MICHAEL STEELE:
Well, they'll have a-- I think the broader point, is an interesting one. Because
what he's comparing himself-- he's comparing himself, Trump, to Kaine-CHUCK TODD:
Right.
MICHAEL STEELE:
--and Clinton. So it's me and against them.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Pence is not a part of that equation, necessarily.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
MICHAEL STEELE:
So when he's talking about the maverick, the outsider, he's-- he's assuming his
ticket is total that.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, Pence wasn't even a part of his own rollout.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
If you remember. And that was-RACHEL MADDOW:
He couldn't get a word in edgewise.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Hillary Clinton spoke about Tim Kaine-MICHAEL STEELE:
I think their strength, Chuck, is gonna be on the argument-- this notion that Tim
Kaine is progressive is just not believable. And for a whole host of reasons. I
think that's an opening for a lot of folks on Trump's side.
RACHEL MADDOW:
You can, there are element of his record that are not progressive, but on
balance, I would argue that he is.
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ANDREA MITCHELL:
I would argue that too.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
But one thing, the guy's two doors from you, if you're president. Look at the
structure of the West Wing now. It's not some guy that goes back to Maine like
Lincoln's first vice president. He or she is right with you.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
You want a good person two doors for you, somebody who has values. And it's
not just smart politics. I think what Hillary Clinton's going to love having is a
guy who's a true blue good guy. And I think he is a progressive on all the moral
issues-CHUCK TODD:
Let's sneak in a break here. When we come back, I want to get into the DNC
e-mail situation. And I also want to get your guys' reaction to some interesting
comments from Donald Trump. Yeah, you know that guy that was at the start
of the show. We'll be right back.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back, panelists here. Before we jump to Trump, the DNC email
leaks, Cleveland, we expected rowdiness, Never Trumpsters, and all that stuff.
We expect order here. But I wonder, Rachel, if-- look, I'm hearing from the
Bernie bros. I'm in one of the emails just-- I'm the complaint department here
sometimes at NBC. Somebody was complaining about coverage. And I said,
"Okay, let's talk on the phone," or whatever. But we didn't do anything about it,
because I get complaints about coverage every hour, every day.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
But I think Bernie supporters may like this place, at least outside. They may be
upset, and they may do something about it.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah. I mean and, you know, there will be that big protest that Andrea was
talking about today, to start things off. And there will be a lot, there will be
hundreds of Bernie delegates insides the room. Now honestly, from the top,
down, he said, "We've got to elect Hillary Clinton." He's been unequivocal
about that, that's the most important thing.
It'll be interesting to see whether the rules fights and the platform fights end up,
in the end, when there's need to get nailed down with those votes, there is
some dissent and chaos there. There might be.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
One thing is-CHUCK TODD:
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Do you think Debbie Wasserman Schultz needs to get out now?
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Well, look-CHUCK TODD:
Not even gavel it in?
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
This is not a mystery story. This isn't Colombo.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
We knew from the beginning, watching the debate schedule, put together by
the DNC-CHUCK TODD:
Sure.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
--that they were tilting the scales to Hillary Clinton. Middle of the night debates,
Sunday morning -- it was an absurd debate schedule. And it just said, "We're
for Hillary, we don't want the new guy to get all the attention."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And what Bernie said to you is that she's not going to be giving a speech.
When does the party chair not give a speech at the convention? And
apparently that is the case.
CHUCK TODD:
And then right now, though, they will gavel in.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Thank god we haven't-- her quitting right now before -- I mean, the DNC's
gonna be running a big part of the ground game for the whole-CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah.
RACHEL MADDOW:
You know, you don't-CHUCK TODD:
But I tell you, this-RACHEL MADDOW:
It would be suicide for the chair to jump out now-CHUCK TODD:
This doesn't help her own fight for reelection, which I still think she's going to
be okay.
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RACHEL MADDOW:
No, but-CHUCK TODD:
It's a district that she knows very well. But-ANDREA MITCHELL:
But Bernie endorsed her opponent.
RACHEL MADDOW:
But her reelection fight is in her district.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Right.
RACHEL MADDOW:
It's not to be the chair of the DNC, that's next year.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Michael Steele, what'd you hear from Donald Trump? Did it make you
feel better or worse about his chances?
MICHAEL STEELE:
Well, I think Donald Trump did a couple of things he needed to do. One was,
and you could see it in the room that night, people began to say, "Okay, I can
get there." The speech that he gave, when you read it, seemed a lot darker
and harsher than when he delivered it. He delivered it in a way-RACHEL MADDOW:
I thought the opposite.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Yeah, yeah.
RACHEL MADDOW:
When reading it, I wasn't freaked out.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Yeah.
RACHEL MADDOW:
And then, when I saw him give it, I pulled the covers up.
MICHAEL STEELE:
No, for me, it was the reverse. Because the reaction. I'm sitting in the room
and I'm getting the reaction from the crowd.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Mmm.
MICHAEL STEELE:

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And the reaction from the crowd was, "This guy is going to be a fighter." And I
think that's a strong message for him coming out of this convention.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Rachel, you have never pulled the covers up.
RACHEL MADDOW:Oh no, I meant proverbially
CHUCK TODD:There's a lot of personal information here. Woah, it's Sunday
morning, guys.
MICHAEL STEELE:
I thought he did what he needed to do, Chuck. I do.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Standing under those 15-foot-tall letters with Trump, and then his head comes
up there. And then he spent 76 minutes screaming, red faced, about terrorism
and death and destruction and "I'm the only one who can fix it"-CHRIS MATTHEWS:
I think that was technical. I don't think he knew how to read a script like that. I
don't think he had the ability to-- his daughter knew how to do it. It's tough to
read a script in a conversational manner. So you end up doing this sort of
scream thing.
RACHEL MADDOW:
But it takes an ego to turn a 30 minute script into a 78 minute rant.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But he said that he was the person who would fix everything. And they're
focusing on that. But, you know, Kaine was focusing on that. You know, it is the
"we" not the I. They're comparing him to a dictator.
MICHAEL STEELE:
But the-ANDREA MITCHELL:
It is the language and the delivery, Michael-MICHAEL STEELE:
Don't lose sight of the fact that a lot of Americans out there are saying it is the
"we" who screwed us up to this point.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah.
MICHAEL STEELE:
It is the we who've gotten us into this mess.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
It's a different way of defining democracy, Michael.
MICHAEL STEELE:

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So they're looking for the I, someone who's going to step forward as a leader,
to get us through this mess. This is the bifurcation of the of the population, the
voting population right now. And it's going to be interesting to see which one of
these arguments win-RACHEL MADDOW:
Is this about the hunger for a strong man, is that what you're talking about?
MICHAEL STEELE:Yeah no, there really is Rachel.
RACHEL MADDOW:We've seen this around the world, it's not supposed to be
us.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
I've heard Bernie make your point.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Yes!
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
It's that we have to reach outside the establishment to get the solution to these
really bad economic problems affecting the working people of this country.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Same message. Different sides.
MICHAEL STEELE:Same message.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Same message. The question is whether or not one man is supposed to
deliver salvation for the country. We're not supposed to be that kind of country.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to throw one more. He seemed, at least in the interview with me, he
goes after Mitch McConnell, goes after Ted Cruz, goes after John Kasich.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
He is fearless in that regard.
CHUCK TODD:He really is.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
He is not going to moderate himself.
RACHEL MADDOW:
You didn't even ask about Kasich. And he's bringing it up
CHUCK TODD:
No, exactly. He brought Kasich up himself.
ANDREA MITCHELL:

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And another player to be named player, who, you know, remain -- could be one
of the senators like Jeff Flake. Look, the fact is that he is not playing by
anybody's ground rules except Donald Trump's. What he said about N.A.T.O.
was extraordinary because he doubled down on that. And the whole system of
collect your security in Europe, if you're in Poland today, you are not
reassured-CHUCK TODD:
What's amazing is the Trump campaign tried to walk it back all last week on
the N.A.T.O. stuff. And he's basically saying, "Don't walk it back."
RACHEL MADDOW:
Even beyond N.A.T.O. to talk about Europe as a threat to America is what's
good for Europe is bad for America and we have an interest in Europe being
weak and divided, they only got together to screw us? Like, hold on a second.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah, it'll play in Scranton. It'll play up there in the Eerie, Pennsylvania it'll play.
RACHEL MADDOW:
The European Union-- came out of the way to try to not have World War III.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Because people think we're being shoved around and exploited and he's
saying, "I'm going to shove back."
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They are our markets-- markets, allies-CHUCK TODD:
You guys great. I'm going to try to get another half hour. But let me sneak in
this. We'll be back in a moment with our-- we'll call it halftime segment. No, it's
Endgame Segment. And we'll look at Hillary Clinton's popularity compared to
other Democratic nominees on the eve of their conventions.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
The panel never stops interacting here. Seriously we just went to a commercial
break-RACHEL MADDOW:
--wants more with France!
CHUCK TODD:
It's endgame time. Look, I want to show you here very quickly some numbers,
because it will help us judge whether this is a successful convention for Hillary
Clinton. These are favorable ratings, personal favorable ratings, whether
you're right side up or upside down, from our NBC Wall Street Journal poll, for
every Democrat going back to '92. And as you can see, Hillary Clinton in the
worst shape of any presumptive nominee going into their convention.
Now, let me show you what everybody else came through after their
convention. So successful convention for Bill Clinton, successful one for Al
Gore. Flat for John Kerry, successful, Barack Obama. Obviously, we'll find out,
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ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, what they are going to do is they're going to have gauzy films, the same
kind of films you saw in 1992, the same producers-CHUCK TODD:
And JFK?
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They're going to have all of these films, biography, résumé. They know that her
résumé is not resonating with millennials. People know what she did, they
don't know-- they know the list of what she was. They don't know what she
actually did, what she accomplished.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Yeah.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They're going to do all of that. The balance is going to be very different.
RACHEL MADDOW:
--because T.V. networks don't always take the movies anymore-ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, they're going to have to validators.
RACHEL MADDOW:
Yeah.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They're going to have people on that podium behind it who are going to talk
about things she has done for them. And it's going to be very much all about
her and much less about taking down Trump
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
I think the magic moment in this convention's going to be Thursday night. And
a lot of women, and a lot of men, too, are going to see Hillary Clinton as the
first party nominee, who's probably going to be like the president. She has the
advantage right now. And there are going to be misty eyes all across the
country.
And any men at that moment who make a wisecrack are going to be
guaranteeing another vote for Hillary Clinton. I think it's a very emotional
moment for people. They've haven't quite got to it because of all is mishegas
that's gone on this year. I think it's going to be magical. And if Hillary Clinton
just stands there with a little emotion, this is an amazing historic moment.
CHUCK TODD:
Michael was the Republican convention too anti-Clinton and not enough proTrump?
MICHAEL STEELE:
No. The Republican convention had to go anti-Clinton-CHUCK TODD:

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Had to do that?
MICHAEL STEELE:
--because of the Trump issues.
CHUCK TODD:
What about this one?
MICHAEL STEELE:
This one? I was thinking, as you guys were talking about Barack Obama and
talking about Hillary Clinton being likable enough, this is going to be a
convention in which they're going to showcase her so you can like her.
Because people, those numbers show, don't like her. So it's going to be
everything you just said, Chris, plus more. The problem is what happens
afterwards. And that's where Hillary Clinton's going to have to contine .
CHUCK TODD:
Here's an out question for all of you. Besides Hillary Clinton's speech, what will
be the other buzziest speech or speaker when we walk away from this
convention?
RACHEL MADDOW:
We're going to have a huge one on night one. Bernie is a big deal.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Bernie.
RACHEL MADDOW:
The Democratic Party is going through a transformation. Liberals are having
their moment. And this convention has to reflect it.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Every Democratic convention I can remember, going back to, God, '64, the
best speech was never given by the nominee, whether it's Bobby Kennedy or
it's Jesse Jackson, or it's Mario Cuomo.
MICHAEL STEELE:
Right.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
The candidates never have been able to deliver the best speech. So I would
bet on Bernie.
RACHEL MADDOW:
It was Trump Jr. last week.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
Bernie or President Obama.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Michelle Obama and Barack Obama on day two.
CHUCK TODD:

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I think it's Barack Obama on Wednesday night. I think it's going to be to Hillary
Clinton what Bill Clinton was to Barack Obama four years ago. All right. That's
all for this Sunday morning.
CHRIS MATTHEWS:
We agree.
CHUCK TODD:
I'll be hosting a special edition of Meet the Press Daily tonight at 5:00 Eastern
on MSNBC. I know that's what everybody on this table will be watching. And
then, throughout the week, I'll be joined by my colleagues Lester Holt and
Savannah Guthrie right here at The Wells Fargo Center for convention
coverage on the network beginning at 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. If you
missed it last week, you should be regretting it. Watch us this week. And of
course we'll be back next Sunday. Because if it is Sunday, Meet the Press.
* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *
TOPICS FIRST READ
FIRST PUBLISHED JUL 24 2016, 11:47 AM ET
 NEXT STORY First Read: How the Email Saga Sums Up the Clintons

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