Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 1346

Unredacted Exhibits to Bartlett Decl ISO Apple's Response to Samsung's Opening Memo Re Design Patent Claim Construction (Dkt. No. 1140) re 1256 Order on Administrative Motion to File Under Seal, by Apple Inc.. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 2, # 2 Exhibit 3, # 3 Exhibit 4, # 4 Exhibit 5, # 5 Exhibit 6, # 6 Exhibit 7, # 7 Exhibit 8, # 8 Exhibit 9, # 9 Exhibit 10, # 10 Exhibit 11, # 11 Exhibit 12, # 12 Exhibit 13, # 13 Exhibit 14, # 14 Exhibit 27)(Jacobs, Michael) (Filed on 7/25/2012) Modified text on 7/26/2012 (dhm, COURT STAFF).

Exhibit 5

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
SAN JOSE DIVISION
APPLE INC., a California
Corporation,

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Plaintiff,

Case No.

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vs.

11-CV-01846-LHK

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SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
a Korean business entity;
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
INC., a New York corporation;
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS
AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware
Limited liability company,

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Defendants.
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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JONATHAN IVE
San Francisco, California
Tuesday, February 7, 2012
(Volume II - Pages 260 - 335)

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REPORTED BY:
CYNTHIA MANNING, CSR No. 7645, CLR, CCRR
JOB NO. 46227
TSG Reporting - Worldwide

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Tuesday, February 7, 2012
3:52 p.m.

Deposition of JONATHAN IVE, taken on
behalf of Defendants, at 50 California Street,
San Francisco, California, before Cynthia
Manning, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 7645,
Certified LiveNote Reporter, California Certified
Realtime Reporter.

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APPEARANCES:
FOR PLAINTIFF:
MORRISON & FOERSTER, LLP
BY: MICHAEL A. JACOBS, ESQ.
FRANCIS C. HO, ESQ.
425 Market Street
San Francisco, California 94105
415.268.7455
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
FOR DEFENDANTS:
QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP
BY: MICHAEL T. ZELLER, ESQ.
SCOTT B. KIDMAN, ESQ.
SCOTT C. HALL, ESQ.
865 S. Figueroa Street
10th Floor
Los Angeles, California 90017
213.443.3000
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
ALSO PRESENT:
Erica Tierney, Esq., Apple Inc.
Tim Zurloff, Videographer

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SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA;
Tuesday, February 7, 2012; 3:52 P.M.

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THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the start of
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Disk No. 1 of the videotaped deposition of
15:52
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Jonathan Ive, in the matter of Apple
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Incorporated, versus Samsung Electronics Company,
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et al., in the United States District Court,
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Northern District of California, San Jose
Division, Case No. 11-CV-01846 LHK.
15:52 10
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This deposition is being held at 50
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California Street, San Francisco, California on
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February 7th, 2012, at approximately 4:53 p.m.
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MR. JACOBS: 3:53.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 3:53. Sorry.
15:53 15
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My name is Tim Zurloff. I'm the legal
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video specialist from TSG Reporting,
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Incorporated, headquartered at 747 Third Avenue,
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New York,
New York.
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The court reporter is Cynthia Manning,
15:53
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in association with TSG Reporting.
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Will counsel please introduce
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yourselves.
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MR. ZELLER: Mike Zeller for Samsung.
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MR. HALL: Scott Hall for Samsung.
15:53

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Page 264
MR. KIDMAN: Scott Kidman for Samsung.
15:53
MR. JACOBS: Michael Jacobs for Apple.
MR. HO: Francis Ho for Apple.
MS. TIERNEY: Erica Tierney for Apple.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court
15:53
reporter please swear in the witness.
JONATHAN IVE,
having first been duly sworn, testified
as follows:
15:53
MR. ZELLER: And so we have it on the
record, what we're doing here is we are now
switching over to the Northern District of
California deposition portion of Mr. Ive's day.
15:53
And for the record, I hadn't finished
my questioning in the ITC proceeding. But in
light of the fact that the witness is recovering
from a cold or flu, as well as the fact that we
don't want to overtax him, I decided I would
15:54
switch over.
Obviously, I'm reserving my rights in
terms of what we do going forward on the
remainder of the ITC proceedings. But in the
interest of addressing and acting pursuant to
15:54

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for the development of that model that you have
16:38
in front of you? In other words, was there
something in particular that designers were
looking for?
A. I -- I don't know.
16:38
MR. ZELLER: Let's please mark as
Exhibit 1453 another tangible object. It is
labeled "Apple Proto 0399."
(Deposition Exhibit 1453 was marked for
identification)
16:38
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q. And please let me know when you've had
a chance to look at that item.
A. (Witness reviewing object.)
16:38
Okay. I've had a look.
Q. And if you could, please, actually for
the record, hold that one up and show the video
camera.
A. (Witness complies.)
16:39
Q. And do you recognize what this item is
that we've marked as Exhibit 1453?
A. I recognize this as a model that was
made for -- for the industrial design team. And
I recognize it as an early exploration for the
16:39

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iPhone, the first iPhone development.
16:39
Q. And is the model, or three-dimensional
item that you have there that we marked as
Exhibit 1453, is that in the vein of the design
that was shown in the CAD drawings attached to
16:40
Mr. Stringer's declarations, namely, Exhibits 1
through 4?
A. I would say this -- this model has a
lot of similarities to -- to the CAD drawings
that I saw in Mr. Stringer's declaration 1
16:40
through -- was it 1 through 4?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes. There are similarities.
Q. Do you recall there being models that
you saw, back when this exploration was being
16:40
done for the first iPhone, that were closer to
those CAD drawings than the model that we've
marked there as 1453?
A. I don't recall. There may have been
models that were closer. This may have been the 16:41
closest. I don't recall which of the CAD
drawings we then decide to make a model from.
Q. Do you have a sense of how many models
you saw of different iterations of the design of
the type that's there that's been marked as 1453? 16:41

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MR. JACOBS: Objection; form.
16:41
THE WITNESS: I can't recall how many
models, as a team, that we would have looked at
and evaluated that were in the category or the
family of designs that I think were described by 16:42
the 1 through 4 exhibits in Mr. Stringer's
declaration. But it would have -- my vague
recollection, it would have been more than 10.
MR. ZELLER: Let's please mark as
Exhibit 1454 a three-dimensional item, or
16:42
tangible, that's labeled Apple Proto 3 -- 0383.
Again, that's "Apple Proto 0383."
(Deposition Exhibit 1454 was marked for
identification)
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q. And if you can please let us know when
you've had a chance to examine Exhibit 1454.
A. (Witness reviewing object.)
I've had a chance to look at that.
Q. Do you recognize that model that we
16:43
marked as Exhibit 1454?
A. I don't actually recall seeing this
model or remember talking about this model.
I recognize it as a model that was made
and finished for the industrial design team, but 16:43

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TSG Reporting - Worldwide

I have less recollection about this model and its 16:43
place in the development process for the
different generations of iPhone.
Q. And also, for record purposes, if you
could please hold that one up and show it to the
16:44
camera, that would be helpful.
A. (Witness complies.)
Q. And you'll see on this prototype
that -- or model that we marked as
Exhibit 1454 -- that the corners are not rounded; 16:44
but, rather, more of -- more of a straight edge?
A. Yes. The four -- the four corners in
the plan view have a -- I don't know the best way
of describing it -- but a flat chamfer. There is
a radius that connects that chamfer to the main
16:44
-- you know, to the horizontal and vertical
perimeter of the product.
Q. And do you recall what was being
explored by having the corners in that manner?
A. No, I don't recall specifically what we 16:45
were exploring or examining here, other than
this -- this being very typical of our process,
which is to be exploring the many -- the many
alternative solutions that there are to design an
iPhone.
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question.
17:00
Q. Sure.
A. You're asking what's the motivation to
have a non-flat surface -- as a designer, what
would the motivation be?
17:00
Q. Pretty close. That's one way of
looking at it. I wasn't necessarily looking so
much to motivation; but, rather, what -- why
would a designer, such as yourself, want to
create a design for an electronic device like
17:00
this that doesn't have a completely flat surface
on the front, but rather is more complex of the
kind that the model that we marked as Exhibit
1455 has.
I mean just purely from a design
17:01
perspective, what do you think that accomplishes,
as compared to a completely flat surface?
A. Well, I think this -- this -- this
model, as described as 1455, I think is -- is
consistent with constantly exploring
17:01
alternatives.
And I know that we have explored
alternatives that relate to surface.
We've explored alternatives that relate
to the perimeter shape, to the section.
17:01

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So when you ask me why -- why would a
17:01
designer make this model, to answer that question
properly, I think you have to understand its
context in design explorations that are
constantly happening.
17:02
And so this is one -- this represents
one of many design explorations. I don't know
for which product. I don't know when this
occurred. But I know that it's typical of
constantly exploring.
17:02
Q. And I guess one way of what I'm trying
to really drive at here is, just purely from a
design aesthetic point of view, is there anything
that you see that's better or worse about having
a completely flat front surface of the kind that
17:02
the original iPhone had, the first iPhone had, as
compared to the more complex and not completely
flat surface that the model we've marked as
Exhibit 1455 has?
MR. JACOBS: Objection; form.
17:02
THE WITNESS: Could you ask me that
again, please? There were a number of questions.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q. Sure. And I'm just -- for the record,
I'm just asking, basically, a comparison of this
17:03

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flat versus non-flat surface between the first
17:03
iPhone and then the model we've marked as Exhibit
1455.
And what I'm asking is, is just purely
from your own aesthetic designer point of view,
17:03
what's the advantage or disadvantage of having a
more complex non-flat surface of the type that's
shown in that model, as compared to having a
completely flat one?
A. Well, they're certainly different. And 17:03
it's difficult to compare these -- these two
objects, because the aspect ratio is so
different.
But there is certainly an appearance
difference, and I think that there is something
17:03
particularly beautiful about a very flat surface,
and particularly when it is a singular part, and
particularly when that singular part extends
right to the very perimeter of the product.
And so there is a -- there's an
17:04
appearance difference, and we've chosen and
developed designs that are -- have this single
clear part that's flat because we think it's
particularly beautiful.
Q. Are there any -17:04

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MR. JACOBS: Would you like a couple
17:04
minutes or do you want to press on through?
THE WITNESS: If it's possible to take
a couple of minutes, that would be great.
MR. ZELLER: Sure. Let's do that.
17:05
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're now going off
the record. The time is 5:05 p.m.
(Recess taken)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're now back on
the record. The time is 5:20 p.m.
17:20
MR. ZELLER: Let's please mark as
Exhibit 1457 a two-page document bearing Bates
Nos. APLNDC0001203443 through 444. The top of
the first page is an e-mail from the witness to
Chris Stringer, dated July 16, 2008, with the
17:20
subject of SJ.
(Deposition Exhibit 1457 was marked for
identification)
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. ZELLER:
17:21
Q. And let me know when you've had a
chance to look at Exhibit 1457.
A. (Witness reviewing document.)
MR. JACOBS: Mike, just so I
understand, how does this fit into your letter
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about today's two-hour deposition?
17:21
MR. ZELLER: I thought it was
mentioned, wasn't it?
MR. HALL: We -MR. ZELLER: Was this marked before?
17:22
MR. HALL: It wasn't sent in the
letter, but it was marked before.
MR. ZELLER: I guess the answer is it
wasn't in the letter, but I'm not going to be
dwelling on it, if you want to know.
17:22
MR. JACOBS: So I object to you
discussing it with the witness, but I won't be -you have 43 minutes left, so.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q. Have you had a chance to look here at
17:22
Exhibit 1457?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And if you -- first of all, do you
recognize these pages as a series of e-mail
exchanges you had with Chris Stringer back in the 17:22
July of 2008 time period?
A. I recognize that this is a -- an
exchange, multiple exchange between Chris
Stringer and myself. I have no recollection of
the -- the content of the meeting that Chris is
17:23

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referring to.
17:23
Q. And then if you take a look at the
second page, this is an e-mail dated July 16th,
2008, and it starts off with "Jony"?
A. Yes, I see that.
17:23
Q. And then about halfway down, there's
the heading "tablet."
Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. And Item 1 is -- it says (reading):
17:23
"Saw quick surface study D.C. and I did
on the margins being slimmer in X. He
likes the recent model that you last
saw most that has the short margins
being 2 millimeters wider than the long 17:23
margins to accommodate the audio jack."
Do you see that?
A. Yes, I see that.
Q. First, is the -- is the tablet
reference here to the iPad?
17:23
A. That's my -- that would be my
assumption, that he's talking about the -- an
iPad, or an iPad study.
Q. And then do you know what he's
referring to here where he says short margins
17:24

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being 2 millimeters wider than the long margins
17:24
to accommodate the audio jack?
A. No, I don't -- I don't know what he
means by margins.
Q. So I take it you don't have an
17:24
understanding as to what he's referring to here
in Item 1 that we talked about, or that I read?
A. I understand some aspects of what he's
saying, but I don't know -- I'm not familiar with
the term short or long margins. I'm not familiar 17:25
with Chris using that term, and I would be
unclear about what he meant.
Q. And here it refers to a surface study
D.C. and I did. Do you know what he's referring
to there?
17:25
A. I understand what those words mean. So
D.C. refers to one of the industrial designers,
Danny Coster.
Q. And what's a surface study?
A. A surface study is a -- in this
17:25
context, it's a -- a very broad description of an
exploration into form, and it can -- it's a -- my
understanding, and the way that we use the term
in the design team, it can describe an
exploration into a small detail or a -- a larger 17:26

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complete surface.
17:26
And typically a study would be carried
out in CAD and then partial models made. So very
often a surface study would be just cut on the
CNC machine, very often not painted. So it's
17:27
just an exploration into one aspect or one
attribute of -- of a design.
Q. Is there anything else that you -- that
you recall or -- or understand from -- from what
he's referring to here on this -- this particular 17:27
instance where these margins were being made 2
millimeters -- 2 millimeters wider than the long
margins to accommodate the audio jack?
A. No, I don't understand that without
understanding the context or having a telephone
17:27
conversation or a conversation.
MR. ZELLER: Let's please mark as
Exhibit 1458 a collection of drawings that are
also known as MCOs. That's the acronym M-C-O.
(Deposition Exhibit 1458 was marked for 17:28
identification)
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q. And I have some particular questions
for you on these, but if you could first just
17:28

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time is 6:06 p.m.
(Time noted: 6:06 p.m.)

18:06

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DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY
I, JONATHAN IVE, do hereby certify under
penalty of perjury that I have read the foregoing
transcript of my deposition taken on February 7,
2012; that I have made such corrections as appear
noted herein in ink, initialed by me; that my
testimony as contained herein, as corrected, is
true and correct.
DATED this
2012, at

day of
, California.

JONATHAN IVE

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IN THE MATTER OF: Apple Inc v. Samsung Electronics
Company Limited
DATE: Tuesday, February 07, 2012
WITNESS: Jonathan Ive
Reason codes:
1. To clarify the record.
2. To conform to the facts.
3. To correct transcription errors.
Page

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From

Reason
to

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Reason
to

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Reason
to

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Reason
to

JONATHAN IVE

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STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
:ss
COUNTY OF SAN MATEO )
I, CYNTHIA MANNING, a Certified Shorthand
Reporter of the State of California, do hereby
certify:
That the foregoing proceedings were taken
before me at the time and place herein set forth;
that any witnesses in the foregoing proceedings,
prior to testifying, were placed under oath; that
a verbatim record of the proceedings was made by
me using machine shorthand which was thereafter
transcribed under my direction; further, that the
foregoing is an accurate transcription thereof.
I further certify that I am neither
financially interested in the action, nor a
relative or employee of any attorney of any of
the parties.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed
my name this 7th day of February 2012.

CYNTHIA MANNING, CSR No. 7645, CCRR, CLR

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