Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al
Filing
2126
Declaration of Susan Estrich in Support of 2013 MOTION for Judgment as a Matter of Law, New Trial and/or Remittitur Pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 50 and 59, 2054 Brief, 2053 Opposition/Response to Motion, filed bySamsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1 to the Estrich Declaration, # 2 Exhibit 2 to the Estrich Declaration, # 3 Exhibit 3 to the Estrich Declaration, # 4 Exhibit 4 to the Estrich Declaration, # 5 Exhibit 5 to the Estrich Declaration, # 6 Exhibit 6 to the Estrich Declaration, # 7 Exhibit 7 to the Estrich Declaration, # 8 Exhibit 8 to the Estrich Declaration, # 9 Exhibit 9 to the Estrich Declaration, # 10 Exhibit 10 to the Estrich Declaration, # 11 Exhibit 11 to the Estrich Declaration, # 12 Exhibit 12 to the Estrich Declaration, # 13 Exhibit 13 to the Estrich Declaration, # 14 Exhibit 14 to the Estrich Declaration, # 15 Exhibit 15 to the Estrich Declaration, # 16 Exhibit 16 to the Estrich Declaration, # 17 Exhibit 17 to the Estrich Declaration, # 18 Exhibit 18 to the Estrich Declaration, # 19 Exhibit 19 to the Estrich Declaration, # 20 Exhibit 20 to the Estrich Declaration, # 21 Exhibit 21 to the Estrich Declaration, # 22 Exhibit 22 to the Estrich Declaration, # 23 Exhibit 23 to the Estrich Declaration, # 24 Exhibit 24 to the Estrich Declaration, # 25 Exhibit 25 to the Estrich Declaration, # 26 Exhibit 26 to the Estrich Declaration, # 27 Exhibit 27 to the Estrich Declaration, # 28 Exhibit 28 to the Estrich Declaration, # 29 Exhibit 29 to the Estrich Declaration, # 30 Exhibit 30 to the Estrich Declaration, # 31 Exhibit 31 to the Estrich Declaration)(Related document(s) 2013 , 2054 , 2053 ) (Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 11/9/2012)
Estrich Declaration
Exhibit 15
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1
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
3
SAN JOSE DIVISION
4
5
APPLE INC., a California
6
corporation,
CASE NUMBER
7
Plaintiff,
8
vs
9
11-CV-01846-LHK (PSG)
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
10
a Korean business entity,
11
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
12
INC., a New York corporation,
13
et al.,
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Defendants.
______________________________________________________
15
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
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17
CONTINUED VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF PHILIP W.
18
SCHILLER
CUPERTINO, CALIFORNIA
19
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 2012
20
VOLUME II
21
REPORTED BY:
22
THOMAS J. FRASIK
23
RPR, CSR No. 6961
Job No. 1554045
24
25
PAGES 404 - 534
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
2
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
3
SAN JOSE DIVISION
4
5
APPLE INC., a California
6
corporation,
7
CASE NUMBER
Plaintiff,
8
vs
9
11-CV-01846-LHK (PSG)
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., LTD.,
10
a Korean business entity,
11
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
12
INC., a New York corporation,
13
SAMSUNG TELECOMMUNICATIONS
14
AMERICA, LLC, a Delaware limited
15
liability company,
16
17
Defendants.
______________________________________________________
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19
Confidential Videotaped Deposition of
20
PHILIP W. SCHILLER, VOLUME II, at 3 Infinite Loop,
21
Cupertino, California, beginning at 1:01 p.m., and
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ending at 4:25 p.m., on Friday, November 2, 2012,
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before THOMAS J. FRASIK, Registered Professional
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Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 6961.
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APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2
3
FOR PLAINTIFF APPLE INC.:
4
5
MORRISON & FOERSTER LLP
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BY:
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425 Market Street
8
San Francisco, California
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415-268-7000
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MICHAEL A. JACOBS, ESQ.
94105
mjacobs@mofo.com
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12
APPLE INC.
13
BY:
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MS 3-PAT, 1 Infinite Loop
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Cupertino, California
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408-862-4884
CYNDI WHEELER, ESQ.
95014
17
18
FOR DEFENDANTS:
19
QUINN EMANUEL
20
BY:
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865 South Figueroa, Tenth Floor
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Los Angeles, California
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213-443-3000
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michaelzeller@quinnemanuel.com
MICHAEL T. ZELLER, ESQ.
90017
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MR. JACOBS:
2
Objection.
THE WITNESS:
I was involved in the choice to
3
include a number of these documents.
4
BY MR. ZELLER:
5
Q.
Do any of the attachments to Exhibit 1677, your
6
declaration, show any of the reasons why consumers
7
13:07:03
purchase Samsung devices?
8
MR. JACOBS:
9
THE WITNESS:
10
Objection.
Let me look at them again,
please.
11
13:07:20
I do not believe that any of the attachments
12
include any specific reasons directly why a Samsung user
13
may by a Samsung phone.
14
BY MR. ZELLER:
15
Q.
Prior to the time that you prepared and signed
16
this declaration we've marked as Exhibit 1677, did you
17
undertake any investigation to determine whether or not
18
Apple has in its possession studies or research showing
19
the reasons why consumers purchase any Samsung
20
smartphone?
21
A.
13:08:58
13:09:14
I do not recall looking for Samsung research
22
performed by Apple.
23
created ourselves specifically of Samsung users.
24
25
Q.
I'm not aware of any that we have
I take it you didn't ask anyone to look into
whether or not Apple had such studies or research; is
13:09:38
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Q.
And so we'll just take these one at a time.
2
Focusing your attention on the Galaxy S II AT&T device
3
you refer to in your declaration, does Apple have any
4
tests or studies showing the reasons why consumers
5
purchased that device at any time?
6
7
8
9
10
A.
13:12:49
I am not aware of any study that we have on the
reasons for purchase of a Galaxy S II AT&T customer.
Q.
Do you have any hard data or direct knowledge
as to the reasons why consumers have ever purchased that
product?
13:13:07
11
MR. JACOBS:
12
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
I have a lot of knowledge of why
13
customers purchase smartphone products, yes.
14
BY MR. ZELLER:
15
Q.
Do you know specifically why consumers purchase
16
the Galaxy SII AT&T?
17
13:13:20
5 of your declaration.
18
19
20
21
A.
It's referenced here in paragraph
Yes, I do believe I have some knowledge of why
consumers may purchase a Galaxy SII AT&T.
Q.
Do you have hard data or hard information to
13:13:39
back up what you believe is that knowledge?
22
MR. JACOBS:
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THE WITNESS:
Objection.
I'm sorry.
Form.
I don't know what you
24
mean by "hard data," "hard information."
25
BY MR. ZELLER:
13:13:51
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Q.
Do you have specific empirical data that you
2
can point us to to support any beliefs that you have as
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to the reasons why consumers have purchased the Galaxy
4
S II from AT&T?
5
MR. JACOBS:
6
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
13:14:03
I have a great deal of
7
information from my position over the years in marketing
8
and selling phones as to why people select cellphones,
9
smartphones, including the Galaxy phone, including
10
discussions with customers, with press, product
11
reviewers, people who sell them in the channel and in
12
the stores, and a great deal of information gathered
13
from all of my time working in this business.
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BY MR. ZELLER:
15
Q.
And those conversations pertain specifically to
16
13:14:39
the reasons consumers purchase the Galaxy S II from
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13:14:26
AT&T, the AT&T version of it?
18
A.
Certainly that was one of the products,
19
including many products that I've asked the people that
20
sell the products, you know, why people buy them, ask
21
customers.
22
Galaxy SIIs.
23
interfaces with people who either sell, market, review,
24
or use these products, including the Galaxy S II.
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Q.
13:14:55
I've spoken with customers who have had
And throughout my years I've had many
Please tell me what is the most important
13:15:13
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feature that drives consumer demand for the Galaxy S II
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AT&T version.
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MR. JACOBS:
4
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
I think there are a number of
5
features that go into a customer's reason for purchasing
6
products such as the Galaxy S II, and they include
7
design, ease of use, performance, price, to list a few.
8
BY MR. ZELLER:
9
Q.
13:15:29
Which is the most important of those with
10
respect to what drives consumer demand for the Galaxy
11
S II AT&T version?
12
MR. JACOBS:
13
THE WITNESS:
13:15:58
Objection.
I don't understand your question.
14
Because, in my experience, customers have many --
15
customers have a number of reasons they purchase a
16
product, not only solely one, and each person may have a
17
different primary reason.
18
BY MR. ZELLER:
19
Q.
13:16:12
It varies by customer.
What percentage of consumers who purchase the
20
Galaxy S II, the AT&T version, purchased it because of
21
ease of use?
22
A.
23
24
25
13:16:29
I have not done a quantitative study of Galaxy
S II users for the reasons for purchase.
Q.
What percentage of those consumers purchased it
because of price?
13:16:45
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factors into the decision most all the time.
Q.
So what percentage is your testimony of the
3
number of consumers who purchased the Galaxy S II AT&T
4
version because of design, to use your term?
5
MR. JACOBS:
6
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
13:18:33
As I stated earlier, I think
7
customers don't purchase a product only solely on one
8
factor.
9
into your purchase decision, design is one of those
I think there are a number of factors that go
10
factors.
11
a hundred percent, at least consider design in their
12
purchase.
13
others, I don't know.
14
study of that.
15
BY MR. ZELLER:
16
Q.
And I think most everybody, which is close to
13:18:47
Whether what ranking it is relative to
I've not done a quantitative
13:19:05
So it's true that with respect to these factors
17
that you mentioned, design, ease of use, performance,
18
price and any other factors, you can't put them into a
19
rank order in their importance to consumers?
20
MR. JACOBS:
21
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
13:19:20
Are we talking specifically only
22
about the Galaxy S II from AT&T?
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BY MR. ZELLER:
24
Q.
Correct.
25
A.
I do not know the ranking of those elements to
13:19:28
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Galaxy S II users because I've not done a quantitative
2
study of that.
3
4
5
Q.
And I take it you don't know which one is the
most important among the ones you mentioned; correct?
A.
I do not know on average in a quantitative
6
study across all the users who purchased it what would
7
13:19:41
average out as the most important, no.
8
9
Q.
One factor that you described was what you
called "ease of use."
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terminology?
11
A.
What do you mean by that in your
13:20:02
Ease of use is a broad term that covers the
12
interface between the product and the user.
This is my
13
lay personal definition.
14
what appears on the screen and how you interact with it
15
in the case of a phone, the features it has, and the
16
steps it takes to utilize those features all go into
17
ease of use.
18
Q.
Anything else?
19
A.
I'm sure there's a lot more that goes into it.
That often is about the --
20
If you'd like me to take some time, I can try to think
21
of every possible element that goes into ease of use.
22
13:20:25
It's a very broad topic.
23
Q.
13:20:41
Well, I'm trying to understand how you're using
24
the term so, I mean, is that a complete answer in terms
25
of how you're using it or is there more?
13:20:58
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A.
Again, my -- as I described, it's a very broad
2
term that covers many things.
Most commonly, it's known
3
for how you interact with a device.
4
began with computers, people talk about computers being
5
easy to use, and that meant how the user interacts with
6
the software but it can also include the input devices,
7
in case there's buttons and switches, the interaction
8
between hardware and software, the setup experience, the
9
ability to access advanced features and what are very
10
visible and exposed versus ones you have to study to
11
learn to use.
12
Q.
And often -- it
13:21:21
13:21:41
It's, again, a very broad industry term.
Another term that you used as a factor was
13
"performance."
14
"performance."
15
A.
Please the tell me what do you mean by
Performance, again, is a very broad term.
It
16
can deal with the speed of a device, it can -- deals
17
with how fast it is to access and use features; it also
18
can relate to network performance, things outside of the
19
device that it interfaces to; deals with things such as
20
the time it takes to start up a device, the time it
21
takes to wake up the device, the time it takes to
22
perform actions.
23
you might not know anything of performance but actually
24
are related such as battery life are often considered
25
elements of performance to many users.
13:21:59
13:22:21
It can also deal with elements such as
Those are a few
13:22:41
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examples.
2
3
Q.
Then you used the term "design" as a factor.
What do you mean by "design"?
4
A.
5
things.
6
shape of it, the color of it, the materials that are
7
used, the size, the weight.
8
other elements as well.
9
software.
10
Q.
Design is a very broad term that covers many
A few examples are how something looks, the
13:22:55
I'm sure there are many
It includes both hardware and
Focusing on the reasons why consumers purchased
11
at any time the Galaxy S II, this AT&T version that
12
we've been discussing, does the choice of carrier factor
13
13:23:14
into the decision of the consumer?
14
MR. JACOBS:
15
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
Speaking specifically about the
16
Samsung Galaxy S II, I haven't done a study to say
17
exactly what -- the extent of what things all
18
contributed to users' decisions to purchase.
19
13:23:43
BY MR. ZELLER:
20
21
Q.
Generally speaking, do consumers have certain
13:24:05
preferences for certain carriers?
22
A.
I haven't done a study on carrier preference by
23
user so I can't speak quantitatively, specifically to
24
what may or may not be a study of that factor.
25
know.
I don't
13:24:26
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Q.
Do you have any knowledge or information as to
2
whether or not carrier preference has been a feature or
3
attribute that has driven consumer demand for that
4
product?
5
MR. JACOBS:
Objection.
Form.
6
Do you mean the S II AT&T?
7
MR. ZELLER:
8
THE WITNESS:
13:24:42
Correct.
I haven't done a study
9
specifically of the Galaxy S II, so I do not know to
10
what extent carrier preference played any part in a
11
purchase decision.
12
BY MR. ZELLER:
13
Q.
13:24:51
Does Apple have any tests or studies showing
14
the reasons why consumers purchased the T-Mobile version
15
of the Galaxy S II?
16
A.
13:25:07
I'm not aware of any study that we have done
17
at Apple about the specific reasons for purchase of a
18
Galaxy S II by Galaxy S II customers for T-Mobile.
19
Q.
Do you have any hard data on that subject?
20
MR. JACOBS:
21
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
13:25:24
Again, if you could please tell
22
me what you mean by "hard data."
23
BY MR. ZELLER:
24
25
Q.
Do you have any kind of verifiable empirical
information that would allow you to say with certainty,
13:25:36
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with confidence, what the reasons are that consumers
2
have purchased the AT -- excuse me -- the T-Mobile
3
version of the Galaxy S II?
4
MR. JACOBS:
5
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
As I also explained with the AT&T
6
version, as with the T-Mobile, I have a great deal of
7
experience over the years speaking with customers of
8
these products, with channel partners who sell them,
9
13:25:51
with press who review them, and on and on, that have
10
given me some knowledge of why customers may purchase a
11
product or how they may look at the purchase process,
12
what they think about when they're purchasing a product
13
like the Galaxy S II at T-Mobile.
14
BY MR. ZELLER:
15
Q.
What's the most important feature or reason why
16
13:26:29
consumers have purchased the T-Mobile version of the
17
13:26:13
Galaxy S II?
18
MR. JACOBS:
19
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
I believe that there isn't one
20
singular, most important reason for all customers.
21
believe there's a mix of things that a customer looks at
22
and thinks about when they purchase a smartphone product
23
like the Galaxy S II at T-Mobile.
24
BY MR. ZELLER:
25
Q.
I
The reasons why or what the most important
13:26:46
13:27:07
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correct?
A.
We attached the studies to the declaration in
3
support of some of the statements that we make within
4
the declaration, yes.
5
Q.
And I take it you didn't have any reason to
6
doubt or hesitate the veracity of the information that
7
you put forth and attached here to your declaration;
8
13:30:02
right?
9
A.
Every study we do has a -- has a measure of
10
its estimated accuracy based on the percentage of the
11
population surveyed and the range of responses, and you
12
try to make sure that within an acceptable range of data
13
that it is representative of the larger population and
14
therefore likely very accurate for whatever topic you're
15
asking about.
16
well-done surveys, as we do at Apple.
17
Q.
I think that's normal procedure for any
13:30:24
13:30:47
And certainly your intention in submitting this
18
declaration, along with these excerpts from the studies,
19
that the court rely on these materials; correct?
20
A.
We believe these materials are accurate that
21
we've attached and that I believe that they're very
22
representative of what we think the population at large
23
that we were interviewing in the surveys believe and we
24
13:31:07
believe that is accurate and true.
25
Q.
And why do you -- why do you have confidence in
13:31:20
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don't tell you and what they're not good for.
2
must be very mindful and careful when one does surveys.
3
BY MR. ZELLER:
4
Q.
So one
Do you have the authority, as part of your
5
position here at Apple, to ask others to conduct surveys
6
and studies as to the reasons why consumers purchase
7
particular products?
8
9
10
11
A.
13:32:52
Yes, I can ask our team to conduct surveys to
ask questions about why customers may purchase a
particular product.
Q.
13:33:14
You could have done that in connection with the
12
reasons why it is that consumers purchase Samsung
13
devices; correct?
14
MR. JACOBS:
15
THE WITNESS:
16
No.
Form.
That wouldn't be very easy
13:33:24
for us to do.
17
Objection.
BY MR. ZELLER:
18
Q.
You don't have any authority to instruct others
19
to conduct surveys to determine the reasons why
20
consumers purchase Samsung devices?
21
A.
13:33:39
I have the authority to ask the research team
22
to conduct a survey.
23
nature done by Apple would be easy to do was the point
24
of my comment.
25
Q.
I don't think a survey of that
At any time here at Apple have you ever
13:33:59
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that are -- that are possible.
2
Increasingly, as you investigate those methods
3
coming from Apple to a competitor's products, those
4
methods may become less reliable and less sure in terms
5
of their potential results.
6
inclined to do that research because I would less trust
7
the veracity of them as being done from a competitor.
8
BY MR. ZELLER:
9
Q.
So I would not be as
13:37:01
Was there in fact a specific reason why you did
10
not ask anyone to undertake a survey as to the reasons
11
why consumers purchased Samsung devices prior to the
12
time that you signed your declaration which we've marked
13
as Exhibit 1677?
14
15
MR. JACOBS:
17
Object and instruct not to answer
on work product and attorney-client privilege grounds.
16
13:37:17
13:37:34
You can answer that to the extent there was
some nonprivileged reason that you didn't do something.
18
THE WITNESS:
19
time.
20
None that I can think of at this
BY MR. ZELLER:
21
Q.
13:37:49
Are you able to tell us what the five most
22
common and important reasons are for why consumers
23
purchased the T-Mobile version of the Galaxy S II?
24
MR. JACOBS:
25
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
I can tell you based on my
13:38:15
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experience and discussions with customers, reviewers,
2
general partners and others what I believe some of the
3
most common reasons that a customer might purchase a
4
Samsung Galaxy II from T-Mobile, if you would like those
5
reasons.
6
BY MR. ZELLER:
7
8
Q.
13:38:41
Can you tell me the most important in rank
order?
9
MR. JACOBS:
10
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
I have not done a quantitative
11
study to rank order by percentage the reasons that a
12
customer purchases a Galaxy S II from T-Mobile.
13
13:38:51
BY MR. ZELLER:
14
Q.
Beyond what you mentioned previously in
15
connection with the AT&T version of the Galaxy S II
16
where you named design, performance, ease of use and
17
price, do you know of any other factors that have gone
18
into the reasons why consumers have purchased the Galaxy
19
S II T-Mobile version specifically?
20
MR. JACOBS:
21
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
13:39:06
13:39:30
In addition -- I cannot think of
22
any other reasons off the top of my head at this moment
23
in addition to those.
24
25
Those are some of the most important reasons
customers choose these products.
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2
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
Can you tell me what percentage of consumers
3
consider price to be an important factor in the purchase
4
of their T-Mobile version of the Galaxy S II?
5
A.
I cannot tell you an exact percentage that
6
customers chose price when purchasing a Galaxy S II from
7
T-Mobile because we have not done a quantitative study
8
13:40:02
to give exact percentages of that.
9
Q.
Well, you haven't done a qualitative study at
10
all on that subject; correct?
11
MR. JACOBS:
12
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
13:40:26
Form.
We have not done a quantitative
13
or qualitative study of Samsung Galaxy S II from
14
T-Mobile purchasers.
15
BY MR. ZELLER:
16
Q.
13:40:39
And I take it you can't provide for me any
17
information on a percentage basis as to the number of
18
consumers who purchased that product for a given reason;
19
is that true?
20
A.
In order to provide a percentage, I would need
21
to do a quantitative study, which we have not done, of
22
13:41:01
Galaxy S II T-Mobile purchasers.
23
Q.
Does Apple have any test or study showing the
24
reasons why consumers purchased the Galaxy S II Epic 4G
25
Touch, which is referenced there in paragraph 5 of your
13:41:26
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declaration?
2
A.
I do not believe we have done a study of
3
reasons for purchase of a Galaxy S II Epic 4G Touch from
4
Sprint at Apple.
5
Q.
Do you have any direct knowledge as to what the
6
most important reason is as to why consumers have
7
13:41:44
purchased that product?
8
9
A.
I do not believe there was one simple most
important reason.
As stated before, I believe there are
10
a number of reasons that go into consumers purchase of
11
smartphones and I believe I already outlined a list of
12
many of those important factors that a customer
13
considers.
14
Q.
13:42:03
And those are the ones you mentioned previously
15
in connection with the AT&T version of the Galaxy S II;
16
right?
17
A.
13:42:21
I believe the reasons a customer purchases a
18
Galaxy S II and the factors they consider are similar
19
across all the carriers, including Sprint.
20
Q.
Does Apple have any test or study showing the
21
reasons why consumers have purchased at any time the
22
Galaxy S II Skyrocket that's referenced there in
23
13:42:39
paragraph 5 of your declaration?
24
25
A.
I'm not aware that Apple has done a study of
Galaxy S II Skyrocket from AT&T customers' buying
13:43:10
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preferences.
2
Q.
You address some additional phones in paragraph
3
6 of your declaration.
4
does Apple have any tests or studies showing the reasons
5
why consumers purchased the Droid Charge?
6
A.
So focusing on those phones,
13:43:37
I'm not aware of a study that Apple has done
7
for the specific reasons for purchase for a Droid
8
Charge.
9
Q.
Or the Galaxy Prevail?
10
A.
I am not aware of a study that Apple has done
11
the reasons customers may have purchased a Samsung
12
13:43:57
Galaxy Prevail.
13
Q.
Or the Galaxy S 4G?
14
A.
I'm not aware of a study that Apple has done
15
for the specific reasons for purchase for a Samsung
16
Galaxy S 4G.
17
Q.
Or for the Showcase?
18
A.
I'm not aware of a study that Apple has done
19
for the specific reasons for purchase for a customer of
20
the Galaxy -- Samsung Galaxy Showcase.
13:44:11
21
Q.
13:44:27
By the way, from time to time Apple commissions
22
or engages third parties to do research on its behalf;
23
is that true?
24
A.
25
Apple works with third parties to often
purchase research they have already done or to assist us
13:44:46
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THE WITNESS:
There may be studies that Apple
2
has of why someone has ever purchased a Samsung device
3
of any kind.
4
have read one.
5
BY MR. ZELLER:
6
Q.
I don't want to state either way.
I may
I do not recall at this moment.
13:47:32
I take it that in the declaration that you're
7
offering in this case you're not relying on such
8
studies; is that true?
9
A.
The studies specifically in support of the
10
statements made in the declaration are the ones that are
11
provided and not others not provided to the best of my
12
knowledge, yes.
13
Q.
13:47:44
And the ones that are attached to your
14
declaration, as we talked about earlier, are studies
15
about the reasons why consumers purchase Apple products;
16
right?
17
A.
13:47:55
The studies attached to my declaration are
18
specifically studies about Apple customers and their
19
purchase of Apple products.
20
Q.
Focusing on the phones that are mentioned
21
specifically in paragraphs 5 and 6 of your declaration,
22
are you aware of any third-party research or studies
23
that have been done into the reasons why consumers
24
13:48:09
purchased those products?
25
A.
I can't speak to the world of studies that have
13:48:29
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been done.
I'm not aware of a study that I can recall
2
at this moment specifically on these phones done by any
3
third party.
4
Q.
Does Apple have in its possession, whether it's
5
a study that it's done or done by a third party, any
6
data showing the reasons why consumers purchase any
7
Galaxy Tab device?
8
9
10
11
A.
13:48:49
I do not recall any studies that Apple has in
its possession for specific reasons a customer purchased
a Galaxy Tab device.
Q.
13:49:12
Does Apple have any test or studies showing
12
whether consumers who purchased the Galaxy S II
13
Skyrocket would have bought another Android device as
14
opposed to an Apple device if the Galaxy S II Skyrocket
15
product was not available?
16
MR. JACOBS:
17
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
13:49:37
Form.
I do not recall seeing any survey
18
that explained why the -- what a purchaser of a Galaxy
19
S II Skyrocket might have purchased had they not had --
20
not purchased a Galaxy S II Skyrocket.
21
BY MR. ZELLER:
22
Q.
13:49:55
Do you have any surveys or consumer research
23
showing that if the Galaxy S II Skyrocket was not
24
available, those consumers would have purchased an Apple
25
iPhone instead?
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MR. JACOBS:
2
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
I do not recall seeing a survey
3
that asked consumers of the Galaxy Skyrocket SII what
4
they would have purchased if it had not been in
5
existence.
6
BY MR. ZELLER:
7
Q.
13:50:33
Does Apple have any test or study showing
8
whether consumers who purchased the T-Mobile version of
9
the Galaxy S II would have purchased an Apple device as
10
opposed to some other Android device if the T-Mobile
11
version of the Galaxy S II was not available?
12
A.
13:50:50
I do not recall seeing or reading any survey
13
that Apple has where a Galaxy S II for a T-Mobile
14
customer was asked about what they would purchase if it
15
did not exist.
16
17
18
Q.
13:51:13
Is the same true with respect to the Galaxy
S II Epic 4G Touch?
A.
I also do not recall reading any survey where
19
the user of the Galaxy S II Epic 4G Touch was asked what
20
they would have purchased had it not existed.
21
Q.
Is the same true for the AT&T Galaxy S II?
22
A.
13:51:26
I also do not recall reading any survey where a
23
user of a Galaxy S II from AT&T was asked what they
24
would purchase if it did not exist.
25
Q.
Is the same true for the Droid Charge?
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A.
I also do not recall reading any survey that
2
Apple has where a customer of the Droid Charge was asked
3
what they would purchase if it did not exist.
4
Q.
Is the same true of the Galaxy Prevail?
5
A.
I also do not recall reading any survey that
6
Apple has where the customer of a Galaxy Prevail was
7
13:51:56
asked what they would purchase if it did not exist.
8
Q.
Is the same true for the Galaxy S 4G?
9
A.
I also do not recall reading any survey that
10
Apple has that asked customers of a Samsung Galaxy S 4G
11
what they would have purchased if it did not exist.
12
Q.
Is the same true for the Showcase?
13
A.
13:52:13
I also do not recall reading any survey
14
where -- that Apple has where a customer of the Samsung
15
Showcase was asked what they would purchase if it did
16
not exist.
17
18
19
Q.
13:52:31
Is the same true for any Samsung Galaxy Tab
devices?
A.
I do not recall seeing any Apple survey where
20
the customer of a Galaxy Tab was asked what they would
21
purchase if it did not exist.
22
Q.
13:52:47
Do you have any knowledge or information as to
23
what percentage of consumers who purchased the Galaxy
24
S II Skyrocket would have purchased an iPhone if the
25
Galaxy S II Skyrocket was not available?
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2
Q.
And if I asked you the same question about any
Galaxy Tab device, you'd give me the same answers?
3
A.
Yes, I believe I would.
4
Q.
And, in fact, if I asked you any questions
5
about any Samsung device, you'd give me the same
6
answers?
7
A.
14:08:45
With such a broad statement, could you please
8
restate the question in total just to be sure I get it
9
right?
10
Q.
Sure, absolutely.
Do you have a percentage of
11
consumers who purchased any Samsung device who would
12
have purchased an Apple device had that product not been
13
14:08:55
available?
14
A.
We have not studied customers who have
15
purchased a Samsung device of any kind that I can recall
16
where we asked what they would have purchased from Apple
17
if that device did not exist.
18
MR. ZELLER:
19
Thank you.
20
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
21
number one.
Okay.
14:09:20
Now is a good time.
This marks the end of disk
14:09:35
We are going off the record at 2:09 p.m.
22
(Recess held.)
23
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
This marks the beginning of
24
disk number two and we're going back on the record at
25
2:18 p.m.
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attributes?
2
MR. JACOBS:
3
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
This question that we've
4
represented here on this chart is specifically only to
5
attractive appearance and design and how important that
6
was to the customer.
7
asked other features and where they could similarly rank
8
them, and those are comparable.
9
researcher, look at those, but that isn't what this
10
There were other questions that
You can then, as a
chart is.
11
14:25:49
BY MR. ZELLER:
12
Q.
14:26:07
Do you know what the relative ranking of
13
features was in terms of overall percentage of who said
14
a given attribute was very important?
15
A.
In order to answer completely your question, I
16
would need to go back to the original survey, look at
17
each question, and then compile an answer.
18
recall off the top of my head that attractive appearance
19
and design was very high amongst all the questions that
20
were asked and responses they gave, it was one of the
21
highest.
22
14:26:21
their relative distribution of each.
23
Q.
I simply
14:26:40
I don't recall exactly each one of them and
Were the iPhone buyer respondents who were
24
surveyed in these surveys shown here in PDX 10.1 asked
25
verbatim the question about "importance of attractive
14:27:00
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appearance and design," are those the actual words that
2
were used in the questioning to the respondents?
3
A.
I believe so, but I would have to look back at
4
the exact methodology report to verify that.
5
best of my knowledge, I believe that is the case.
6
7
8
9
Q.
To the
14:27:20
Was this phrase "attractive appearance and
design" defined to any of the survey respondents?
A.
I do not believe the terms "attractive
appearance" or "design" were further defined for the
10
respondents.
11
Q.
12
13
14
15
14:27:43
Did these surveys define any more specifically
what was meant by "attractive appearance and design"?
A.
I do not know if there was any more definition
provided respondents around those terms.
Q.
In your view, does this study or group of
14:28:00
16
studies that are summarized here show the relative
17
importance of attractive appearance and design of the
18
hardware as opposed to iOS?
19
A.
I believe the response customers provide to
20
this question regarding attractive appearance and design
21
is representative of the entire product, the iPhone in
22
this case, its combination of hardware and software.
23
Q.
And nothing more specific than that?
24
A.
That is my belief.
25
Q.
I direct your attention to Attachment 2.
14:28:31
This
14:28:54
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pick, they're looking at the thickness and weight, a
2
number of factors all go into the appearance and design
3
that they consider.
4
Q.
And do you have any hard data that would allow
5
you to say that any of those features of the design or
6
appearance is more important than others --
7
8
9
MR. JACOBS:
Objection.
14:43:58
Form.
BY MR. ZELLER:
Q.
-- to the consumer in the purchasing decision,
10
or is it all such a mixture that there's no way of
11
separating them, in your view?
12
A.
14:44:14
I don't believe consumers only pick one
13
attribute of a product's appearance and design as most
14
important over some other elements.
15
combination of a few, the most visible and distinctive
16
ones, that often make the most impact on customers.
17
Q.
I think it's a
14:44:31
Would you be able to tell me the percentage of
18
consumers who considered the flat glass front of the
19
iPhone 5 to be the factor that really drove their
20
purchasing decision?
21
A.
14:44:54
I don't believe that we have done a
22
quantitative study of the relative weighting of
23
different pieces of design with consumers.
24
25
Q.
And is the same true of the other elements that
you mentioned, the bezel, the overall shape, the
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materials, including aluminum and the thickness and
2
weight?
3
A.
I don't believe we've done a study of iPhone 5
4
buyers to determine the individual elements of the
5
appearance and design and how they would rank them
6
relative to each other.
7
Q.
14:45:34
Has Apple done any studies or surveys of
8
iPhone 4 or 4S purchasers such that you would be able to
9
tell us from the consumer perspective which of these
10
features of the appearance and design that you mentioned
11
was the most important in their purchasing decision?
12
A.
14:46:00
I am not aware of a study that we have done of
13
iPhone 4 users asking them to weight the relative value
14
of different elements of our design of the iPhone 4.
15
Q.
And is the same true of the iPhone 3G and 3GS?
16
A.
I'm not aware of a study that we have done at
17
Apple to rank the relative importance of different
18
components of the design for iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4
19
14:46:23
customers.
20
Q.
Is the same true of the first iPhone?
21
A.
I don't recall us running a survey of iPhone --
22
original iPhone buyers and what individual elements of
23
the design that customers might rank relative to each
24
14:46:44
other.
25
Q.
So I take it with respect to these various
14:47:11
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factors -- I'm sorry.
2
Strike that.
With respect to these various features that
3
you've identified that are part of the appearance and
4
design, I take it you can't tell me what percentage of
5
consumers bought an iPhone because of those features
6
individually.
7
A.
14:47:27
We, through our surveys, can tell the
8
importance of the design in total to those users, not
9
individual features of the design.
10
Q.
And the studies that you're referring to that
11
show it at that level, the totality of the appearance
12
and design taken all together for the iPhones, include
13
14:47:49
the studies that are attached to your declaration?
14
15
A.
18
Could I have that question read
back?
16
17
I'm sorry.
14:48:13
Q.
Sure.
I'll try to -- I think I can simplify
it.
Focusing on the studies that you have attached
19
to your declaration, that you refer to in your
20
declaration, do any of these studies break down and show
21
what features of the appearance and design of these
22
various iPhones drove consumer demand for those phones,
23
or as you understand it these surveys simply show what
24
the totality of all those features among everything else
25
that goes into appearance and design show?
14:48:22
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2
product?
A.
I don't think about those elements in terms of
3
having a ranked element of performance because they are
4
one product together that the user experiences and sees,
5
and I don't think I don't think of them as individual
6
components.
7
Q.
14:56:17
Are you able to separate out those features for
8
purposes of identifying which are the most important or
9
relatively the most important for purposes of reasons
10
11
why consumers purchase a given iPhone?
A.
14:56:36
I could not easily break them out and don't
12
think that's appropriate for how customers look at a
13
product.
14
which is more important to your health, your heart, your
15
lungs or your brain, as a customer, I would say all of
16
them, they all make up me, and I wouldn't want to have
17
to pick between which one of those things I want, they
18
all make up me.
19
we're discussing all make up what customers identify as
20
the iPhone, and it's not a -- I wouldn't ask a customer
21
to break up what they in their own minds don't think of
22
as separate things.
23
Q.
As a way of analogy, if I were to ask you
14:57:00
And, similarly, I think those elements
14:57:16
So I take it you can't identify specifically
24
what features that go into the appearance and design of
25
the iPhones is the most important one to consumers; is
14:57:38
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2
that true?
A.
It's my statement that these -- the ones --
3
the elements I listed are all important and customers
4
consider them together in defining the design of the
5
iPhone, and they're not thought of as individual,
6
separable things to rank in importance.
7
Q.
14:57:57
So I take it that you're not able to tell me
8
what is the most important one from the consumer demand
9
perspective; is that true?
10
A.
I don't believe that of the elements I've
11
spoken that there is one to be -- they could be ranked
12
14:58:15
by relative importance.
13
Q.
And I take it from your answer you wouldn't be
14
able to rank the five most important features of the
15
appearance and design that drive consumer demand for any
16
iPhone product; correct?
17
A.
14:58:34
I believe I've provided the ones that I believe
18
are the most important.
19
themselves, but I gave them because they're much more
20
important than other things that are smaller and of less
21
importance.
22
screen, the overall shape of it, the iPhone with its
23
rounded corners, its icons on its dock as in the top
24
most important features of design and attractiveness.
25
And they are not ranked within
14:58:55
So, for example, I listed the large front
I did not rank other elements of design
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attractiveness that are, in my belief, not as important.
2
The types of screws we use in the bottom of the iPhone
3
to attach it together are parts of design but I don't
4
think those are as important to customers.
5
the speaker grill holes on the bottom for your
6
microphone and speaker I don't think are as important as
7
the elements I've listed.
8
9
The shape of
14:59:31
So I did list elements that I think are very
important, very visual, very influential to customers'
10
decision to purchase an iPhone and why they find it
11
attractive.
12
Q.
14:59:46
And what empirical data can you point us to
13
with respect to the relative importance of these
14
features of appearance and design that you testified to
15
are the most important?
16
A.
15:00:09
The data upon which I have formed my opinion on
17
some of the elements of attractive appearance and design
18
are based on our experience creating the product,
19
showing it to customers, providing it to reviewers and
20
press, talking to customers and hearing their input on
21
what they like about it and on and on, many actual
22
pieces of information that we provide -- that have been
23
provided to us.
24
Q.
Is it supported by any consumer surveys?
25
A.
I am not aware of any consumer survey that we
15:00:29
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have done at Apple that studies individual subcomponents
2
of the design for the relative ranking of importance.
3
Q.
Focusing on the first iPhone, was the way that
4
the product worked more important to consumers as part
5
of their purchasing decision than the way it looked?
6
MR. JACOBS:
7
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
15:01:14
Form.
I believe that a number of
8
factors went into importance of the original iPhone and
9
its innovation to consumers when we launched it.
10
appearance and design, the way it, quote, looked,
11
certainly was an extremely important factor in what
12
customers thought about it, what it did for them and the
13
features it had was also of great importance to
14
customers as well.
15
BY MR. ZELLER:
16
Q.
The
15:01:40
15:02:06
Do you have any empirical data or survey
17
information that would allow you to provide testimony as
18
to whether consumers considered the look of the first
19
iPhone to be more important than how it worked?
20
MR. JACOBS:
21
THE WITNESS:
Object to the form.
15:02:31
I did not say that the look of
22
the iPhone was more important than how it worked.
23
said they were both important to consumers when we
24
launched the original iPhone.
25
I
BY MR. ZELLER:
15:02:46
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specific to this context or go back and list out what I
2
said.
3
iPhone users said in this survey about rating ease of
4
use, and I don't recall the exact words previously in
5
this deposition.
6
Because now we're talking specifically about what
Q.
I'd have to hear them again.
15:08:07
Please tell me what is your understanding of
7
what "ease of use" means in the context of these surveys
8
that you're relying upon and discussing in your
9
declaration.
10
A.
Sure.
In this survey, we are asking recent
11
iPhone purchasers -- so in this time, in 2010, we're
12
asking iPhone purchasers of the iPhone 3GS and
13
iPhone 4 -- to tell us how ease of use -- what they
14
thought of ease of use relative to their purchase of
15
an iPhone and to rank it as very important, somewhat
16
important, neither important, somewhat unimportant, very
17
unimportant and don't know.
18
they were given in this question.
19
number of factors went into these customers'
20
consideration of ease of use.
15:08:20
21
15:08:46
Those are the categories
And I believe a
15:09:01
First of all, specifically, this is ease of
22
use of an iPhone, so they're talking specifically about
23
their experience using an iPhone.
24
about the multi-touch experience, because that is one of
25
the key elements of owning an iPhone, is it's a
So that means it's
15:09:15
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multi-touch smartphone.
So they're talking about using
2
their fingers on the screen to access the applications
3
the iPhone comes with.
4
application on the iPhone is the Safari browser we were
5
just talking about, so using the Safari browser to tap
6
on web links to go to web pages, to use fingers to
7
scroll up and down on the webpage, to doubletap on a
8
story and have the text zoom up and fill the screen, on
9
and on, scroll to the end of the page and how it bumps.
For example, a popular
10
Those are all elements of what creates the experience
11
that a customer might consider easy to use.
12
15:09:34
the context of an iPhone user using an iPhone.
13
14
15
Q.
15:09:51
It's all in
Any other understanding of what "ease of use"
means here, any other features?
A.
Well, there would be -- sure, there would
16
be many.
17
applications are and how they can have a home screen
18
and tap on it and swipe on it and launch applications.
19
It would be the integration of the hardware and the
20
software, to be able to hold an iPhone with one hand and
21
touch on an application in the dock and launch something
22
simply.
It's about using an iPhone and not needing a
23
manual.
Customers are always very impressed that you
24
don't need to use a manual to get a lot of functionality
25
out of your iPhone.
15:10:08
There's also our home screen and where
There are many elements that go
15:10:24
15:10:44
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into the experience.
2
I do think the multi-touch user interface part
3
of it is probably among the most important of all the
4
elements of how customers perceive ease of use on an
5
iPhone.
6
Q.
7
8
9
15:10:59
Any other features that go into "ease of use"
as you understand it's being used here?
A.
I'm sure there are many others.
There's how
you set up an iPhone right out of the box and start
10
using it.
It is the range of applications that it
11
comes with and your mail application and all the other
12
software that's on there, how it all works seamlessly
13
together and how it's designed to work together, how you
14
answer a phone call and make a call.
15
features that go into ease of use.
15:11:14
There are many
16
Q.
Any other features you can identify?
17
A.
15:11:33
I'm sure there are many more but, time
18
permitting, I don't -- at the moment I can't think of
19
any off the top of my head.
20
21
MR. JACOBS:
Mike, at a convenient point for
15:11:49
you, could we take another short break?
22
MR. ZELLER:
Sure.
23
MR. JACOBS:
Do it now?
24
MR. ZELLER:
Yes, now is fine.
25
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
We're going off the record
15:11:59
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2
3
You understand that some consumers have a
preference for Android over iOS; right?
A.
I have not researched the preference users have
4
of Android versus iOS specifically.
5
research that we've done with that specific question.
6
Q.
I don't recall a
15:48:22
So it's true that you're unable to tell me what
7
percentage of consumers purchase a given smartphone
8
because of the operating system that it uses?
9
A.
Your question treated the purchase of a phone
10
because of the operating system in a singular as if
11
that's the only feature someone is considering.
12
stated earlier, I do not believe that is the only
13
feature someone considers when they purchase a device.
14
I think customers think of a number of features
15
altogether when they make a purchase decision.
16
Q.
15:48:47
As I
15:49:01
What percentage of consumers of smartphones
17
consider the choice of operating system to be the most
18
important factor in their purchasing decision?
19
A.
I have not -- do not recall reading any survey
20
that tells what percent specifically a customer -- of
21
customers rate choice of operating system the number one
22
most important factor in purchasing a smartphone.
23
Q.
15:49:21
Do you have any empirical data or survey
24
evidence that would tell you what percentage of
25
consumers considered the operating system to be
15:49:52
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2
important in their smartphone purchasing decision?
A.
I do not recall reading survey -- any survey
3
data about the importance of one operating system versus
4
another in their purchase decision.
5
6
Q.
15:50:08
case, the "bounce patent"?
7
8
Did you review the '381 utility patent in this
THE REPORTER:
"Bounce"?
BY MR. ZELLER:
9
Q.
"Bounce."
10
A.
I'm not sure what you mean by review the
11
patent.
12
Q.
15:50:32
In connection with your declaration, in
13
preparing your declaration, did you review any Apple
14
patents?
15
16
17
A.
No, I did not read any patent documents or
15:50:43
filings.
Q.
Have you ever read a patent that's sometimes
18
called the '381 Patent?
19
Apple patent that describes a form of bounce-back.
20
A.
It's the one that -- it's an
I'm familiar with the multi-touch bounce
21
feature.
22
15:50:59
associated with that.
23
Q.
I have not read the patent documents
Focusing on the bounce feature then in iOS,
24
has Apple done any studies or surveys to determine what
25
percentage of consumers purchased an iPhone device
15:51:21
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2
because of that feature?
A.
I don't recall any Apple surveys that my team
3
did on the importance of an individual feature, such as
4
the bounce feature, to the purchase of the device.
5
believe in the trial there was other research
6
referenced, but nothing that I did with my team.
7
Q.
I
15:51:46
Is there any survey data or research that
8
you're relying upon in your declaration to -- that
9
relates in any way to the -- whether or not the
10
bounce-back feature is a driver of consumer demand
11
for any iPhone?
12
MR. JACOBS:
13
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
15:52:13
Form.
I -- when talking about the
14
bounce interface feature in my statements, I am
15
referring to the data regarding ease of use and my
16
knowledge that the bounce feature is a contributor to
17
the overall ease of use experience the customer has with
18
an iPhone.
19
research provided in the declaration and its
20
attachments.
21
BY MR. ZELLER:
22
Q.
15:52:30
And there's a great deal of ease of use
15:52:49
Do you know or have any specific information as
23
to the extent to which the bounce-back feature is a
24
driver of consumer demand for any iPhone product?
25
A.
Do I know?
Yes, I know that the bounce-back
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bounce-back was created for the purpose of ease of use.
2
So it isn't separate of ease of use, it is about ease of
3
use.
4
5
Q.
"Ease of use" as used in these surveys, as we
discussed, include multiple features within it; right?
6
7
It isn't a separable concept.
A.
15:58:13
Yes, there are multiple features of ease of
use, one of which is bounce-back.
8
Q.
So my question is of the specific feature of
9
bounce-back that is part of ease of use, what is the
10
extent to which the bounce-back feature specifically
11
and itself drives consumer demand for any of the
12
iPhone devices?
13
have that quantifies that percentage of consumers?
14
A.
15:58:27
Is there any information that you
It is my belief that this percentage of ease of
15
use does quantify bounce-back as a -- one of the many
16
key features of ease of use of iOS in the iPhone and is
17
representative of that value.
18
Q.
15:58:49
Are there any features that are part of ease of
19
use that you've identified in your deposition that are
20
more important than other features in terms of ease of
21
use?
22
MR. JACOBS:
23
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
I'm sorry.
15:59:08
Form.
I don't understand
24
the idea of features of ease of use that have different
25
relative importance.
15:59:24
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A customer doesn't use an iPhone feature in
2
isolation of the other features, so you can't separate
3
out one from another easily, it's one experience, and
4
the bounce-back feature being a very common one that you
5
run into many times throughout a single day of use.
6
So I feel it affects every user of the iPhone on a daily
7
basis and therefore is absolutely intrinsically tied
8
with the concept of ease of use.
9
BY MR. ZELLER:
10
11
12
Q.
15:59:41
And if I ask you the same questions about the
15:59:56
pinch-to-zoom gesture, you'd give me the same answer?
A.
I believe that pinch-to-zoom is a very
13
important feature that's intrinsically tied to ease of
14
use in the experience with the iPhone as well.
15
16
Q.
And if I ask you the same question about the
16:00:15
doubletap-to-zoom, you'd give me the same answer?
17
A.
18
ease of use.
19
as we launched it, we demoed it, we showed it on TV.
20
think you can't now separate that from customers' minds
21
as a different feature of ease of use.
22
what makes up ease of use on the iPhone.
23
Q.
Doubletap-to-zoom is extremely important in
In fact, it was written about many times
I
16:00:30
It's all part of
And I take it that you can't separate out the
24
extent to which pinch-to-zoom or doubletap-to-zoom or
25
bounce-back are relatively important in relationship to
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one another in terms of what it is that drives consumer
2
demand for iPhone products?
3
A.
I certainly haven't ever separated them out.
4
I know, again, through the trial some other research was
5
provided by other people who have, but I have never done
6
that in our research, separated out these individual
7
features.
8
9
10
11
Q.
16:01:09
Are you aware of any empirical data that shows
the percentage of consumers who purchased an iPhone
product specifically because of pinch-to-zoom?
A.
16:01:27
I believe that all customers who purchase an
12
iPhone product in part value pinch-to-zoom in the total
13
experience that they want.
14
data that specifically attempts to quantify that.
15
Apple has done -- what percentage of that applies, I
16
don't recall seeing that kind of a question.
17
Q.
I don't know of any survey
But
16:01:54
Does Apple have any empirical data or survey
18
evidence that shows the extent to which consumers have
19
purchased any iPhone devices because of
20
doubletap-to-zoom?
21
A.
16:02:19
As with the other two features, I believe most
22
all iPhone users in part purchase the iPhone because of
23
one of the many features it has and has had from the
24
beginning is doubletap-to-zoom and that's critical for
25
their web-surfing experience.
But what percent that
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makes up of their total desire to have an iPhone, I do
2
not know, do not recall a survey question from Apple
3
asking that.
4
Q.
Would you consider the bounce-back feature to
5
be one of the five most important reasons why consumers
6
purchase iPhones?
7
A.
16:02:49
I don't think of these features individually
8
myself in terms of a relative importance.
The
9
experience we create in iOS and in the user experience
10
of iPhone in total has made it extremely easy to use.
11
Among the many features that we've done that are very
12
important and influential I believe is bounce-back.
13
I recall when we were working on it that,
14
without it, the experience was not nearly as good.
15
when the engineering team created bounce-back, it made a
16
dramatic difference in our usability with iPhone for all
17
of us testing it in our use every single day.
18
it has a great importance.
19
of that importance because we have not researched it
20
that way.
16:03:13
21
Q.
And
16:03:31
So I know
I can't quantify the percent
16:03:49
So it's true that you can't tell me to what
22
degree the bounce-back feature is an affirmative driver
23
of consumer demand in any sort of quantifiable way, as
24
opposed to you believe it's -- you saw some evidence
25
that its absence made a dramatic difference; is that
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Of course, price is unique with cellphones in
2
the US because with the subsidized plan model that most
3
phones are sold on, they're really all within the same
4
price range, so it's really sort of neutralized between
5
competing products.
6
are important metrics.
7
I believe quality and performance
16:05:45
So as a customer, you look at this total
8
offering and you make a value decision on whether that's
9
the product you want in total and you consider all of
10
these factors.
11
representative list for what most people are looking at.
12
BY MR. ZELLER:
13
Q.
And I think those are a pretty
16:06:01
Focusing on the features that Apple claims to
14
be patented in this case, can you tell me which of them,
15
if any, is the most important reason why consumers
16
purchase iPhones?
17
18
MR. JACOBS:
Objection.
Form.
16:06:18
Lacks
foundation.
19
THE WITNESS:
I have not done a survey of the
20
individual patent features to rank their relative
21
importance to consumers in their purchase process.
22
BY MR. ZELLER:
23
Q.
16:06:31
What percentage of consumers have purchased
24
iPhones because of the specific, individual patented
25
features that are at issue in this case?
16:06:53
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MR. JACOBS:
2
Objection.
THE WITNESS:
Form.
I do not believe customers think
3
about only individual features when they purchase a
4
product like iPhone.
5
features together as one product.
6
customers make a purchase decision.
I believe they consider all of the
That's how I believe
7
MR. JACOBS:
8
16:07:11
Let me just ask how we doin' on the clock,
9
Excuse me just a second.
what's the total time?
10
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
11
MR. JACOBS:
12
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
13
MR. JACOBS:
14
Time on the record?
16:07:28
Time on the record.
Two hours 47 minutes.
Okay.
BY MR. ZELLER:
15
Q.
So you can't give me percentage?
16
A.
I'm sorry.
Q.
Can you tell me the percentage of consumers
17
18
16:07:36
Could you restate, percentage of
what?
19
who have purchased any iPhone products because of the
20
patented features that are at issue in this case?
21
MR. JACOBS:
22
THE WITNESS:
Objection.
Form.
16:07:51
Foundation.
I would estimate that a hundred
23
percent of the customers purchase an iPhone because the
24
patented features in this case are features of the
25
iPhone.
I think these are features that matter to
16:08:11
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2
still being sold?
A.
I don't know which models are being sold with
3
what specific operating system.
4
the Samsung/Android world which operating system ships
5
with which phone.
6
Q.
It's quite confusing in
16:18:41
Well, what percentage of consumers are
7
currently buying any kind of Samsung device because of
8
bounce-back?
9
A.
As I stated earlier, I have not done a survey
10
of Samsung purchasers to ascertain what percentage of
11
individual Samsung Galaxy buyers are buying a product
12
for a feature.
13
Q.
16:18:48
Back during the time period when, according to
14
Apple, Samsung's devices had the bounce-back feature
15
with its various devices, do you believe that consumers
16
purchased those Samsung devices because it had the
17
bounce-back feature?
18
A.
16:19:12
I think -- the way I think of it is I believe
19
that if those Samsung devices did not implement
20
bounce-back in copying iOS, fewer customers may have
21
purchased them because they would have been dissatisfied
22
with the ease of use of the product.
23
customers would have chose not to buy it had it not used
24
bounce-back in combination with the other multi-touch
25
features as well.
16:19:34
So I think
So I do think there's an impact on
16:19:52
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DEPOSITION REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION
2
3
4
5
I, the undersigned, a California Certified
Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify:
That the foregoing proceedings were taken
6
before me at the time and place herein set forth, at
7
which time the witness was administered the oath; that
8
the testimony of the witness and all objections made by
9
counsel at the time of the proceedings were recorded
10
stenographically by me, and were thereafter transcribed
11
under my direction; that the foregoing transcript
12
contains a full, true, and accurate record of all
13
proceedings.
14
I further certify that I am neither financially
15
interested in the action nor a relative or employee of
16
any attorney or party to this action.
17
18
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date subscribed
my name, dated this 5th day of November, 2012.
19
20
21
22
23
______________________________
24
THOMAS J. FRASIK, CSR No. 6961
25
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