Apple Inc. v. Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. et al

Filing 2126

Declaration of Susan Estrich in Support of 2013 MOTION for Judgment as a Matter of Law, New Trial and/or Remittitur Pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 50 and 59, 2054 Brief, 2053 Opposition/Response to Motion, filed bySamsung Electronics America, Inc.(a New York corporation), Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., Samsung Telecommunications America, LLC. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit 1 to the Estrich Declaration, # 2 Exhibit 2 to the Estrich Declaration, # 3 Exhibit 3 to the Estrich Declaration, # 4 Exhibit 4 to the Estrich Declaration, # 5 Exhibit 5 to the Estrich Declaration, # 6 Exhibit 6 to the Estrich Declaration, # 7 Exhibit 7 to the Estrich Declaration, # 8 Exhibit 8 to the Estrich Declaration, # 9 Exhibit 9 to the Estrich Declaration, # 10 Exhibit 10 to the Estrich Declaration, # 11 Exhibit 11 to the Estrich Declaration, # 12 Exhibit 12 to the Estrich Declaration, # 13 Exhibit 13 to the Estrich Declaration, # 14 Exhibit 14 to the Estrich Declaration, # 15 Exhibit 15 to the Estrich Declaration, # 16 Exhibit 16 to the Estrich Declaration, # 17 Exhibit 17 to the Estrich Declaration, # 18 Exhibit 18 to the Estrich Declaration, # 19 Exhibit 19 to the Estrich Declaration, # 20 Exhibit 20 to the Estrich Declaration, # 21 Exhibit 21 to the Estrich Declaration, # 22 Exhibit 22 to the Estrich Declaration, # 23 Exhibit 23 to the Estrich Declaration, # 24 Exhibit 24 to the Estrich Declaration, # 25 Exhibit 25 to the Estrich Declaration, # 26 Exhibit 26 to the Estrich Declaration, # 27 Exhibit 27 to the Estrich Declaration, # 28 Exhibit 28 to the Estrich Declaration, # 29 Exhibit 29 to the Estrich Declaration, # 30 Exhibit 30 to the Estrich Declaration, # 31 Exhibit 31 to the Estrich Declaration)(Related document(s) 2013 , 2054 , 2053 ) (Maroulis, Victoria) (Filed on 11/9/2012)

Estrich Declaration
Exhibit 9

2651

1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

2

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

3

SAN JOSE DIVISION

4
5
6

APPLE INC., A CALIFORNIA
CORPORATION,

7
8
9
10
11
12
13

PLAINTIFF,
VS.
SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
LTD., A KOREAN BUSINESS
ENTITY; SAMSUNG
ELECTRONICS AMERICA,
INC., A NEW YORK
CORPORATION; SAMSUNG
TELECOMMUNICATIONS
AMERICA, LLC, A DELAWARE
LIMITED LIABILITY
COMPANY,

14
DEFENDANTS.

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C-11-01846 LHK
SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA
AUGUST 15, 2012
VOLUME 9
PAGES 2651-2965

15
16
17

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE THE HONORABLE LUCY H. KOH
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

18
19
20

APPEARANCES ON NEXT PAGE

21
22
23
24
25

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER: LEE-ANNE SHORTRIDGE, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 9595
IRENE RODRIGUEZ, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074

2652

1

A P P E A R A N C E S:

2

FOR PLAINTIFF
APPLE:

3
4

MORRISON & FOERSTER
BY: HAROLD J. MCELHINNY
MICHAEL A. JACOBS
RACHEL KREVANS
425 MARKET STREET
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

94105

5
6
7
8

FOR COUNTERCLAIMANT WILMER, CUTLER, PICKERING,
APPLE:
HALE AND DORR
BY: WILLIAM F. LEE
60 STATE STREET
BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS 02109

9

BY: MARK D. SELWYN
950 PAGE MILL ROAD
PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA

10
11

FOR THE DEFENDANT:

12
13

94304

QUINN, EMANUEL, URQUHART,
OLIVER & HEDGES
BY: CHARLES K. VERHOEVEN
ALBERT P. BEDECARRE
50 CALIFORNIA STREET, 22ND FLOOR
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94111

14
BY:

VICTORIA F. MAROULIS
KEVIN P.B. JOHNSON
555 TWIN DOLPHIN DRIVE
SUITE 560
REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA

15
16

94065

17
BY:

MICHAEL T. ZELLER
WILLIAM C. PRICE
JOHN B. QUINN
865 SOUTH FIGUEROA STREET
10TH FLOOR
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90017

18
19
20
21

FOR INTERVENOR
REUTERS:

RAM, OLSON,
CEREGHINO & KOPCZYNSKI
BY: KARL OLSON
555 MONTGOMERY STREET, SUITE 820
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 94111

INTERPRETERS:

JAMES YIM VICTORY
ANN PARK
ALBERT KIM

22
23
24
25

2653

1
2

INDEX OF WITNESSES

3

DEFENDANT'S

4

MARKUS PALTIAN
VIDEO DEPOSITION PLAYED

5

P. 2670
P. 2671

6
7

ANDRE ZORN
VIDEO DEPOSITION PLAYED

P. 2671
P. 2672

8
9

TIM ARTHUR WILLIAMS
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. VERHOEVEN
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. LEE

P. 2676
P. 2739

JIN SOO KIM
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. QUINN
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. MCELHINNY
REDIRECT EXAM BY MR. QUINN

P. 2787
P. 2821
P. 2833

RICHARD HOWARTH
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. PRICE
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. MCELHINNY

P. 2838
P. 2842

ANDRIES VAN DAM
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. JOHNSON
CROSS-EXAM BY MS. KREVANS
REDIRECT EXAM BY MR. JOHNSON
RECROSS-EXAM BY MS. KREVANS

P.
P.
P.
P.

STEPHEN GRAY
DIRECT EXAM BY MR. DEFRANCO
CROSS-EXAM BY MR. JACOBS

P. 2893
P. 2924

10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18

2845
2873
2883
2884

19
20
21
22
23
24
25

2859

1

THE COURT:

WE CAN GO A LITTLE BIT

2

LONGER, BUT I DON'T WANT OUR COURT REPORTERS TO

3

HAVE TO GO TWO HOURS STRAIGHT.

4

SINCE 1:03.

5

MR. JOHNSON:

6

THE COURT:

THEY'VE BEEN GOING

THIS IS A PERFECT PLACE.
IS THIS A GOOD PLACE.

OKAY.

7

IT'S NOW 2:52.

WE'LL TAKE A 15-MINUTE BREAK.

SAME

8

ADMONITION, PLEASE KEEP AN OPEN MIND, DON'T DISCUSS

9

THE CASE WITH ANYONE.

PLEASE DON'T READ ABOUT THE

10

CASE OR DO ANY RESEARCH.

11

BINDERS ON YOUR CHAIRS, AND WE'LL SEE YOU BACK IN

12

15 MINUTES.

13
14

YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR

THANK YOU.

(WHEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS
WERE HELD OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

15

THE COURT:

16

(WHEREUPON, A RECESS WAS TAKEN.)

17

(WHEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS

18
19
20

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

WERE HELD OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT:

ALL RIGHT.

WELCOME BACK,

PLEASE TAKE A SEAT.

21

IF YOU WOULD PLEASE BRING OUR JURY BACK.

22

(WHEREUPON, THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS

23
24
25

WERE HELD IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT:
WELCOME BACK.

OKAY.

PLEASE TAKE A SEAT.

2860

1

IT IS 3:07.

2

MR. JOHNSON:

3

YOUR HONOR, I'D LIKE TO START BY MOVING

4

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

IN SDX 3964.15, WHICH IS THE VIDEO WE JUST WATCHED.

5

MS. KREVANS:

6

THE COURT:

7

THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

NO OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.
ALL RIGHT.

3964.015, NOT A,

JUST 015.

8

MR. JOHNSON:

9

THE COURT:

THE VIDEO.
WHAT WAS THE NUMBER FOR THAT?

10

MR. JOHNSON:

IT SHOULD BE .015A.

11

THE COURT:

12

MR. JOHNSON:

13

THE COURT:

14

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

15

3964.015A, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED

16

FOR IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

17

EVIDENCE.)

IT IS A, OKAY.
YES.
THANK YOU.

THAT'S ADMITTED.

18

BY MR. JOHNSON:

19

Q

20

TABLECLOTH MEETS THE NEXT LIMITATION OF CLAIM 19?

21

A

22

THAT YOU MUST HAVE INSTRUCTIONS FOR DISPLAYING A

23

FIRST PORTION OF AN ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT.

24
25

PROFESSOR VAN DAM, CAN YOU SHOW US HOW

SURE.

IT'S A VERY SHORT ELEMENT, AND IT SAYS

IT DOESN'T TELL YOU HOW YOU ARRIVE AT
THAT FIRST PORTION.

SO LET'S ZOOM IN AGAIN AND NOW

2861

1

WE'LL SEE A BIT OF SCROLLING, AND THEN SOMEWHERE

2

WE'LL STOP AND SAY THAT'S OUR FIRST PORTION AND

3

ANNOTATE IT AS SUCH.

4

Q

5

INSTRUCTIONS FOR TRANSLATING?

6

A

7

MORE, SHOWING THAT THERE ARE INSTRUCTIONS FOR

8

TRANSLATING.

9

OKAY.

WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT LIMITATION,

SO HERE WE'VE TRANSLATED JUST A LITTLE BIT

AND THAT TRANSLATION DIRECTION IS CALLED

10

THE FIRST DIRECTION, THE UPWARD DIRECTION IN THE

11

CASE OF TABLECLOTH AND IN THIS DEMONSTRATION.

12

NOW, WHEN YOU SCROLL, INEVITABLY YOU'RE

13

GOING TO DISPLAY A DIFFERENT PORTION OF THE

14

ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT.

15

PORTION IN THE CLAIM LANGUAGE.

16

AND THAT IS CALLED THE SECOND

NOW, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THIS

17

DISCUSSION OF FIRST PORTION, SECOND PORTION, AND

18

YOU'LL SOON SEE A THIRD AND FOURTH IS THE PATENT'S

19

WAY OF TEXTUALLY DESCRIBING WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO

20

SEE VISUALLY.

21

DESIGN FEATURE.

22

SCROLLING MOTION.

23

IT IS NOT, IN FACT, A SEPARATE
IT'S A CONSEQUENCE OF THE

SO WHAT ELSE IS REQUIRED?

WELL, BECAUSE

24

YOU'RE SCROLLING, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A DIFFERENT

25

PORTION, AND, THEREFORE, THE SECOND PORTION WILL BE

2862

1

DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST PORTION.

2

AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT, FOR

3

EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF SKY IN THE

4

SECOND PORTION VERSUS THE AMOUNT IN THE FIRST

5

PORTION.

6

SO WE CAN CHECK OFF THAT ENTIRE ELEMENT.

7

Q

OKAY.

8

THE NEXT LIMITATION OF THE CLAIM.

9

A

SURE.

CAN YOU SHOW US HOW TABLECLOTH MEETS

SO IN THE CASE WE'RE GOING TO SCROLL,

10

AS WE'VE SEEN BEFORE, UNTIL WE REACH THE EDGE AND

11

THEN SCROLL A LITTLE BIT MORE TO OVER SCROLL, SO GO

12

BEYOND THE EDGE, AT WHICH POINT WE HAVE TO SEE

13

SOMETHING NOT PART OF THE ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT,

14

WHICH THE PATENT CALLS AREA BEYOND THE EDGE.
NEXT, AGAIN, INEVITABLY BECAUSE OF THE

15
16

SCROLLING ACTION, WE'LL SEE YET A DIFFERENT PORTION

17

OF THE ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT CALLED THE THIRD

18

PORTION, AND THE PATENT DESCRIBES THAT, AGAIN,

19

INEVITABLY, THAT THE PORTION HAS TO BE SMALLER THAN

20

THE FIRST PORTION, NOT JUST DIFFERENT, BUT SMALLER.

21

WHY?

WELL, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO MAKE ROOM

22

FOR THE AREA BEYOND THE EDGE AND THUS THE RED

23

RECTANGLE IS SMALLER THAN THE ORANGE RECTANGLE.

24

THE IMAGE IS JUST SMALLER.

25

Q

AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US HOW TABLECLOTH

2863

1

MEETS THE NEXT LIMITATION AS DESCRIBED IN CLAIM 34?

2

A

3

AND THIS IS SETTING US UP FOR THE SNAP-BACK.

4

IS THE SNAP-BACK?

5

DIRECTION, A SECOND DIRECTION, HERE THE OPPOSITE

6

DIRECTION GOING DOWNWARD.

7

SO THE NEXT ELEMENT IS GOING TO BE SHOWN HERE,
WHAT

IT MEANS TRANSLATING IN ANOTHER

AND WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH?

8

WELL, YOU'RE TRYING TO GET RID OF THAT AREA BEYOND

9

THE EDGE, AND WHEN YOU DO, YOU SNAP BACK.

10

NOW, ADDITIONALLY, BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING

11

AT YET A DIFFERENT PORTION OF THE ELECTRONIC

12

DOCUMENT, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A FOURTH PORTION AND

13

THE PATENT REQUIRES THAT IT BE DIFFERENT FROM WHERE

14

YOU STARTED THE ANALYSIS.

15

AND JUST TO REMIND YOU, WE HAVE --

16

WHOOPS -- A COMBINATION OF TWO IMAGES IN THE FIRST

17

PORTION OVER HERE AND A SINGLE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT

18

AS OUR FOURTH PORTION.

19

AND THAT COMPLETES THE LAST ELEMENT, AND

20

SO WE'VE SHOWN THAT ALL OF THE ELEMENTS OF CLAIM 19

21

ARE FOUND IN TABLECLOTH.

22

MR. JOHNSON:

YOUR HONOR, WE ASK THAT SDX

23

3964.026 THROUGH 38, THAT THOSE SLIDES THAT

24

PROFESSOR VAN DAM JUST REFERRED TO BE ADMITTED.

25

MS. KREVANS:

NO OBJECTION.

2864

1
2

THE COURT:

I'M SORRY.

GIVE ME THAT

BATES RANGE AGAIN.

3

MR. JOHNSON:

4

THE COURT:

IT'S 3964.026 THROUGH .038.
OKAY.

AND NO ONE WILL BE

5

ABLE TO GET ANY DEMONSTRATIVES ADMITTED IN THEIR

6

REBUTTAL CASES BECAUSE THIS IS FAR EXCEEDING ALL

7

THE EXHIBIT LIMITS.

OKAY?

8

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBERS

9

3964.026 - .038, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY

10

MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION, WERE ADMITTED

11

INTO EVIDENCE.)

12

BY MR. JOHNSON:

13

Q

14

OF WHEN TABLECLOTH WAS CREATED?

15

A

16

HIS COLLEAGUE AT MITSUBISHI ELECTRIC RESEARCH LAB

17

DURING THE HOLIDAY WINTER VACATION, AND IT WAS THUS

18

AVAILABLE EARLY IN JANUARY, MID-JANUARY IT WAS

19

SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC AT THE NEW SCHOOL FOR SOCIAL

20

RESEARCH, AND I UNDERSTAND FROM HIS TESTIMONY THAT

21

ONE OF THE ATTENDEES WAS SENATOR KERREY.

22

Q

WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?

23

A

THAT WAS 2005.

24

Q

OKAY.

25

PROFESSOR VAN DAM, WHEN IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING

IT WAS CREATED, AS DR. FORLINES TESTIFIED, BY

LET'S TURN OUR ATTENTION TO LAUNCHTILE.
NOW, CAN YOU TAKE US THROUGH A DISCUSSION

2865

1

OF HOW LAUNCHTILE MEETS EACH AND EVERY LIMITATION

2

OF CLAIM 19?

3

A

4

DR. BEDERSON DEMONSTRATED ALREADY.

5

OF 36 TILES, EACH OF WHICH IS MEANT, IN THIS

6

PROTOTYPE, EVENTUAL TO LAUNCH AN APPLICATION.

I WILL.

7

HERE WE SEE THE DEVICE THAT
IT'S AN ARRAY

AND, AGAIN, THE FIRST THING WE HAVE TO DO

8

IS IDENTIFY WHAT OUR ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT IS GOING

9

TO BE.

10

BY THE COURT'S CONSTRUCTION, IT CAN BE

11

ANYTHING THAT HAS A DIGITAL REPRESENTATION.

12

COULD PICK A SINGLE TILE.

13

EIGHT OR THE ENTIRE SET OF TILES.

14

I

I COULD PICK TWO, FOUR,

FOR THE PURPOSES OF MY INVALIDITY

15

ANALYSIS, I PICKED TWO ADJACENT ZONES.

16

IN TO MAKE THOSE SHOW UP.

17
18
19

I'LL ZOOM

AND THE TWO ZONES I'LL PICK ARE THE
LEFT-MOST ONES.
SO THERE IT IS.

IT'S KIND OF SMALL, SO

20

LET ME GO IN A LITTLE BIT.

AND TO ILLUSTRATE WHAT

21

I MEAN BY THE ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT, I'M GOING TO

22

SHOW YOU A SCHEMATIC OF THOSE TWO ZONES OF FOUR

23

TILES EACH, TOGETHER, AS YOU CAN THINK OF THEM AS

24

TWO PHOTOGRAPHS OR EIGHT PHOTOGRAPHS.

25

ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT, AND THAT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO

IT'S OUR

2866

1

DO OUR ANALYSIS.

2

ZONE, THE LEFT-MOST PART OVER HERE, AND WE'RE GOING

3

TO SEE THE DOCUMENTS SCROLL IN THE LEFT DIRECTION.

4

WE'RE GOING TO START IN THE LEFT

EVENTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO COME TO THE

5

EDGE OVER HERE.

6

Q

WHY DOES THE AREA BEYOND THE EDGE?

7

A

WELL, HERE IT IS ANYTHING THAT IS NOT PART OF

8

THE ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT, SO IT'S WHATEVER LIES

9

OUTSIDE THAT WHITE BOX DESIGNATING THE ELECTRONIC

10

DOCUMENT.

11

Q

12

THIS PARTICULAR DEVICE MEETS THE LIMITATIONS?

13

A

I HAVE, YES.

14

Q

AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT WE SEE?

15

A

SO --

16

Q

AND WE'RE LOOKING AT 3964.043 AT THIS POINT.

17

A

WE START OFF BY HAVING ONLY A PORTION IN VIEW,

18

JUST AS IN THE CASE OF TABLECLOTH.

19

LIMINE ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS ARE TOO MUCH TO BE SEEN

20

IN THEIR ENTIRETY IN WHATEVER DISPLAY YOU USE,

21

WHETHER IT'S A SMARTPHONE OR EVEN A VERY LARGE

22

INTERACTIVE WHITE BOARD.

23

HAVE YOU PREPARED A VIDEO THAT DESCRIBES HOW

MOTION IN

SO THIS IS THE AMOUNT THAT WE CAN SEE ON

24

THIS LITTLE HANDHELD DEVICE, AND EVENTUALLY WE'RE

25

GOING TO SCROLL TO THE LEFT UNTIL WE -- SORRY.

MY

2895

1

TELLS YOU HOW LONG I'VE BEEN DOING THIS.

2

ASSEMBLY LEVEL LANGUAGES, A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT

3

COMPUTING LANGUAGES.

4

Q

5

EXPERT ON THE '915 AND '163 PATENTS; IS THAT

6

CORRECT?

7

A

THAT'S CORRECT.

8

Q

HAVE YOU WORKED BEFORE AS A TECHNICAL EXPERT

9

IN YOUR CAREER?

10

A

VARIOUS

AND, SIR, YOU'RE HERE AS SAMSUNG'S TECHNICAL

I HAVE.

11

MR. DEFRANCO:

YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT

12

WE WOULD OFFER MR. GRAY AS AN EXPERT IN SOFTWARE

13

PROGRAMMING AND USER INTERFACE.

14

THE COURT:

15

MR. JACOBS:

16

THE COURT:

ANY OBJECTION?
NO OBJECTION.
SO CERTIFIED.

17

BY MR. DEFRANCO:

18

Q

19

OF SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT YOU LOOKED AT IN YOUR

20

WORK IN THIS CASE?

21

A

22

HISTORY, AND WHAT BY "FILE HISTORY" WHAT I MEAN IS

23

THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE PATENT OFFICE AND THE

24

APPLICANT WHEN THEY'RE GETTING THEIR PATENT

25

APPROVED.

BRIEFLY, SIR, WOULD YOU GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES

I REVIEWED THE PATENTS; I REVIEWED THE FILE

2896

1

I'VE STUDIED THE REPORTS OF THE EXPERTS

2

IN THIS MATTER, I'VE STUDIED DEPOSITIONS AND A

3

VARIETY OF OTHER DOCUMENTS THAT ARE RELATED TO THE

4

MATTER.

5

Q

6

A TIME STARTING WITH THE '915.

7

SOME SLIDES, DEMONSTRATIVES AS HAS BEEN DONE IN THE

8

CASE.

9

OKAY.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE THE PATENTS ONE AT
WE'RE GOING TO USE

THIS IS THE '915 PATENT.

CAN YOU REMIND

10

US IN A SENTENCE WHAT THE '915 PATENT IS ABOUT?

11

A

12

ZOOM WITH TWO FINGERS.

13

Q

AND THE FILING DATE OF THAT PATENT, SIR?

14

A

THAT PATENT WAS FILED ON JANUARY 7TH, 2007.

15

Q

AND THIS IS THE PATENT IN WHICH APPLE IS

16

ASSERTING CLAIM 8; IS THAT CORRECT?

17

A

THAT'S CORRECT, CLAIM 8.

18

Q

ALL RIGHT.

19

PATENT IS ABOUT GENERALLY.

20

HERE?

21

A

22

COMES FROM THE PATENT ITSELF.

23

SIDE WE SEE A SCROLL OPERATION, ONE FINGER MOVING

24

THE, THE IMAGE ACROSS THE SCREEN THE VIEW OF THE

25

IMAGE ACROSS THE SCREEN.

SO THE '915 IS THE SCROLL WITH ONE FINGER,

EXACTLY.

THAT'S THE '915.

LET'S -- YOU DESCRIBED WHAT THE
IS THAT WHAT'S DEPICTED

THERE'S A LITTLE ANIMATION THAT
ON THE LEFT-HAND

2897

1

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE PERFORMING.

2

THERE'S A LITTLE BUG HERE IT LOOKS LIKE.

3

GO.

4
5

THERE WE

SO THAT'S THE SCROLLING OPERATION, SINGLE
FINGER SCROLLING OPERATION.

6

ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE IS WHAT'S REFERRED

7

TO AS THE GESTURE OPERATION.

THE GESTURE

8

OPERATION, FOR EXAMPLE, IS A MULTIPOINT GESTURE

9

OPERATION AND ALLOWS, FOR EXAMPLE, SCALE IN AND OUT

10

FOR A PARTICULAR OBJECT.

11

GESTURE OPERATION.

12

Q

13

ABOUT CLAIM 8.

14

YOU, WHAT PRIOR ART YOU LOOKED AT?

15

A

16

LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE SCREEN, THE BLUE BACKGROUND

17

IS THE PRIOR ART I INTEND TO TALK ABOUT TODAY.

18

OF THAT ART WAS FILED SOMETIME PRIOR TO THE

19

APPLICATION IN JANUARY 2007 OF THE '915 PATENT.

20

Q

21

BEFORE THE PATENT OFFICE DURING PROSECUTION OF WHAT

22

BECAME THE '915 PATENT?

23

A

I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

24

Q

OKAY.

25

FRACTAL ZOOM, OKAY?

OKAY.

SO THAT'S THE MULTIPOINT

AND WE ARE, WE'RE GOING TO TALK A BIT
JUST IN A SENTENCE, TELL US WHAT

SO THE PRIOR ART THAT YOU SEE HERE ON THE

ALL

AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING WAS ANY OF THAT ART

LET'S START WITH DIAMONDTOUCH RUNNING
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

2898

1

A

SURE.

2

Q

I'D LIKE TO WALK THROUGH THE CLAIM ELEMENTS.

3

BY THE WAY, WERE YOU IN THE COURTROOM

4

WHEN THESE FACT WITNESSES TESTIFIED, MR. BOGUE AND

5

MR. FORLINES?

6

A

YES, I WAS.

7

Q

OKAY.

8

BIT ABOUT THE SYSTEM, ENOUGH SO THAT WE CAN JUST GO

9

TO THE CLAIM AND COMPARE IT TO THE DEVICE ITSELF.

10

IN A SENTENCE -- I THINK WE'VE HEARD A

ARE YOU WITH ME?

11

A

SURE.

12

Q

WHY DON'T WE WALK THROUGH THAT ONE LIMITATION

13

IN THE CLAIM AT A TIME AND YOU CAN TELL US WHERE IN

14

THE CLAIM IT'S FOUND.

15

A

16

STORAGE, AND, AGAIN, THAT'S MEMORY THAT CONTAINS

17

INSTRUCTIONS THAT CAUSE THE COMPUTER, IN THIS CASE

18

THE DIAMONDTOUCH SYSTEM, TO PERFORM ITS OPERATIONS.

19

ONE OF THOSE OPERATIONS IS RECEIVING USER

SO CLAIM 8 REQUIRES MANUFACTURE READABLE

20

INPUT IN THE FORM -- I SHOULD SAY RECEIVING USER

21

INPUT ON A TOUCH SENSITIVE DISPLAY THAT IS

22

INTEGRATED WITH THE DATA PROCESSING SYSTEM.

23

SO AS THE PREVIOUS WITNESS SPOKE ABOUT,

24

THAT'S THE WAY THAT THE DIAMONDTOUCH SYSTEM WORKS.

25

IT'S A COMPUTER SYSTEM THAT HAS A TOUCH SENSITIVE

2899

1

DISPLAY THAT ALLOWS FOR CAPTURING OF THE INPUT

2

POINTS.

3

Q

4

EVENT OBJECT.

5

PLEASE, WHERE IT'S IN THE REFERENCE, SIR?

6

A

7

THE DIAMONDTOUCH SYSTEM IS SHOWN, IS ILLUSTRATED BY

8

THIS PIECE OF CODE.

9

AN OBJECT KNOWN AS THE DTLIBINPUTTFRAME.

10

LET'S GO TO THE NEXT LIMITATION, CREATING AN

SURE.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT FOR US,

SO CREATING AN EVENT OBJECT IN THE DT,

THIS PIECE OF CODE IDENTIFIES
THAT

STANDS FOR DIAMONDTOUCH LIBRARY INPUT TOUCH FRAME.

11

AND WHAT IT CONTAINS IS THE TOUCH

12

INFORMATION THAT WHEN THE USERS TOUCH THE SCREEN,

13

THIS IS THE OBJECT THAT CONTAINS THAT INFORMATION.

14

THE DTLIBINPUTTFRAME EVENT OBJECT

15

INCLUDES, FOR EXAMPLE, INFORMATION LIKE THE NUMBER

16

OF TOUCHES THAT THE USER HAD ON THE SCREEN, WHERE

17

THE TOUCHES STARTED AND WHERE THEY ENDED.

18

THE REFERENCE THERE AT THE XY POSITION, AND TIME

19

REFERENCES TO CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THOSE, OF THAT

20

TOUCH.

21

SO THAT'S THE ELEMENT.

THAT'S

THAT'S THE

22

OBJECT.

23

Q

24

COULD YOU PLEASE DESCRIBE FOR US WHERE THAT IS?

25

A

OKAY.

LET'S GO TO THE NEXT ELEMENT, SIR.

SO THE NEXT ELEMENT IS DETERMINING WHETHER OR

2900

1

NOT WE HAVE DONE A, USE A -- OR INTENDING TO DO A

2

SCROLL OR A GESTURE OPERATION BY DISTINGUISHING

3

BETWEEN A SINGLE INPUT POINT WHICH IS TOUCHED ON

4

THE INPUT DISPLAY OR MULTIPLE INPUT POINTS.

5

IF IT IS A SINGLE INPUT POINT, IT'S A

6

SCROLL OPERATION.

IF IT'S MULTIPLE INPUT POINTS,

7

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A GESTURE IN THE WAY IT'S

8

REFERRED TO IN THE '915 PATENT, AND THE GESTURE

9

WOULD BE, FOR EXAMPLE, A SCALING OPERATION.

10

SO, SO THERE'S ONE FINGER FOR SCROLL, TWO

11

FINGERS FOR GESTURES, AND THAT'S THE DISTINGUISHING

12

ASPECT HERE.

13

Q

OKAY.

14

A

I'M SORRY.

15

SCREEN THAT'S SHOWN HERE, THE SPLASH SCREEN THAT IS

16

UP THERE INDICATES THE ACTUAL MANNER IN WHICH THE

17

DEVICES OPERATE.

18

Q

19

PLEASE.

20

A

21

A SCROLL OR GESTURE CALL BASED ON INVOKING THE

22

SCROLL OR GESTURE OPERATION.

23

FRAGMENT OF CODE.

24

CALLED THE FRACTAL ZOOM APP, WHICH IS AN

25

APPLICATION THAT WAS REFERRED TO THE OTHER DAY WHEN

OKAY.

SO THAT CLAIM IS MET.

I SHOULD MENTION, THE SPLASH

LET'S GO TO THE NEXT LIMITATION,

SO THE NEXT LIMITATION HAS TO DO WITH ISSUING

AGAIN, THIS IS A

THIS IS FROM A, A PIECE OF CODE

2901

1

DR. FORLINES TALKED ABOUT THE DEVICE.

2

THE FRACTAL ZOOM, THIS PARTICULAR METHOD

3

IS ONE CALLED TOUCH DETECTED.

4

METHOD DOES PROCESSING, BUT BY THE TIME IT GETS

5

HERE, IT DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT THE M CURRENT

6

MODE IS EQUAL TO MODE ZOOM OR M CURRENT MODE IS

7

EQUAL TO MODE PAN.

8

THE TOUCH DETECTED

BASED UPON THAT, THE SYSTEM PERFORMS

9

DIFFERENT OPERATIONS, ONE THAT CREATES A SCALING

10

FACTOR, THE OTHER ONE DOES NOT CREATE A SCALING

11

FACTOR.

12

BUT IN ANY EVENT, THE RESPONSE IS TO --

13

THE RESPONSE IS TO REPAINT THE SCREEN BASED UPON

14

THE OPERATIONS WHICH ARE DEFINED IN THE TOUCH

15

DETECTIVE.

16

Q

OKAY.

17

A

THE LAST LIMITATION IS ACTUALLY HOW THE SCREEN

18

IS ALTERED BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THE USER HAS

19

DONE IT.

20

OPERATED ON, SCROLL UP AND SCROLL DOWN, SO THAT

21

CLAIM LIMITATION IS MET.

22

Q

OKAY.

23

A

AND HERE'S THE TWO FINGER GESTURE.

24

ZOOMING IN AND THEN A TWO FINGER GESTURE WHILE

25

WE'RE -- ACTUALLY, IT'S THE OPPOSITE, ZOOMING OUT

THE LAST LIMITATION, SIR, PLEASE?

SO HERE YOU SEE THE SCROLL THAT'S BEING

AND THEN WE TAKE YOU TO?
WE'RE

2902

1

AND ZOOMING IN.

SO THAT LIMITATION IS ALSO MET.

2

Q

3

RESPONDING TO AT LEAST ONE GESTURE CALL.

4

SEE THAT, SIR?

5

A

THAT'S CORRECT.

6

Q

ALL RIGHT.

7

YOU ANALYZED.

8

ABOUT THE NOMURA REFERENCE, PLEASE, SIR?

9

A

AND THAT LIMITATION FOR THE RECORD IS
DO YOU

LET'S TURN TO THE SECOND REFERENCE
WOULD YOU GIVE US A SENTENCE OR TWO

SO THE NOMURA REFERENCE IS A JAPANESE PATENT.

10

IT WAS FILED NOVEMBER OF 1998.

AND THE PATENT

11

TALKS ABOUT AN ELECTRONIC OR PORTABLE INFORMATION

12

DEVICE, A PORTABLE DEVICE THAT IS USED FOR A MAP

13

APPLICATION.

14

AND ONE OF THE -- SEVERAL OF THE

15

FUNCTIONS THAT ARE PERFORMED IN THE MAP APPLICATION

16

RELATE TO ENLARGEMENT, WHICH IS SCALING, REDUCTION,

17

WHICH IS ALSO SCALING, AND THEN SCROLLING.

18

SO IT'S A, A PATENT APPLICATION THAT

19

IDENTIFIES A MAPPING APPLICATION AND AN E-BOOK, AN

20

ACTUAL DEVICE, THAT PERFORMS THOSE OPERATIONS.

21

Q

22

EXHIBIT DX 550?

23

A

24

REFERRING TO.

25

SIR, IS THAT IN THE BINDER IN FRONT OF YOU AS

DX 550, YES, THAT'S THE REFERENCE I'M

MR. DEFRANCO:

YOUR HONOR, WE WOULD MOVE

2903

1

FOR ADMISSION OF EXHIBIT DX 550, THE NOMURA

2

PREFERENCE.

3

MR. JACOBS:

OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

4

REFERENCE TO COUNSEL'S CHARACTERIZATION OF IT AS A

5

PATH.

IT'S AN UNEXAMINED PATENT APPLICATION.

6

MR. DEFRANCO:

THAT'S CORRECT, YOUR

7

HONOR, IT'S AN UNEXAMINED PATENT APPLICATION FOR

8

THE RECORD.

9

THE COURT:

IT'S ADMITTED.

10

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

11

550, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

12

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

13

EVIDENCE.)

14

BY MR. DEFRANCO:

15

Q

16

THROUGH THE LIMITATIONS IN THE CLAIM AND IF YOU

17

COULD COMPARE THEM TO THE DISCLOSURE IN THE NOMURA

18

REFERENCE.

19

A

20

DEMONSTRATION.

21

FINGER SCROLL, AN ANIMATION THAT SHOWS MOVING THE

22

MAP ACROSS THE ELECTRONIC BOOK.

23

ONE WAS A PINCH.

24

Q

25

CLAIM ELEMENTS.

LET'S DO THE SAME THING, MR. GRAY.

LET'S WALK

ARE YOU WITH ME?

I'M WITH YOU.

SO, AGAIN, THIS IS A LITTLE

HERE IS THE SCROLL, THE SINGLE

NO NEED TO RUSH YOU.
OKAY.

AND THEN THE OTHER

LET'S START WITH THE

2904

1

A

FAIR ENOUGH.

2

AGAIN THE MANUFACTURE READABLE STORAGE MEDIUM.

3

FIGURE 2 FROM THE PATENT SHOWS AN INSTRUCTION

4

STORAGE MEDIUM THERE, THAT'S THE BOX THAT I'VE

5

HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW.

6

UNIT, AND THE INFORMATION STORAGE MEDIUM CONTAINS

7

DATA AND INSTRUCTIONS WHICH ARE USED BY THE E-BOOK

8

IN PERFORMANCE OF ITS APPLICATION.

9

ELEMENT IS MET.

10

SO THE FIRST PART OF CLAIM 8 IS

THAT FEEDS THE PROCESSING

SO THAT CLAIM

THE FINGER MOVEMENT DETECTOR, WHICH IS

11

NUMBER -- WHICH IS ELEMENT 10 OF FIGURE 2, SHOWS --

12

IS THE RECEIVER OF THE INPUTS FROM THE TOUCH

13

SENSITIVE SCREEN THAT THE USER OPERATING ON, ON THE

14

DEVICE.
SO THE FINGER MOVEMENT DETECTOR CREATES A

15
16

FINGER MOVEMENT HISTORY.

THAT HISTORY IS --

17

RECORDS WHAT THE MOVEMENTS WERE ON THE SCREEN.

18

Q

AND THAT --

19

A

SO THAT LIMITATION IS ALSO MET.

20

Q

THAT MEETS THE RECEIVING A USER INPUT

21

LIMITATION?

22

A

CORRECT.

23

Q

OKAY.

24

WHICH IS CREATING AN EVENT OBJECT IN RESPONSE TO

25

THE USER INPUT.

LET'S TURN TO THE NEXT LIMITATION,

2905

1

WHERE IS THAT IN NOMURA, SIR?

2

A

SO AS I JUST MENTIONED, THE UNIT THAT RECEIVES

3

THE USER INPUTS STORES THAT INFORMATION IN THE

4

MOVEMENT HISTORY, AND THE MOVEMENT HISTORY, A

5

FINGER MOVEMENT HISTORY IN NOMURA IS THE '915'S

6

VERSION OF THE EVENT OBJECT.

7

Q

8

DETERMINING WHETHER AN EVENT OBJECT INVOKES A

9

SCROLL OR GESTURE ELEMENT?

OKAY.

HOW ABOUT THE NEXT LIMITATION,

10

A

SO ELEMENT 30, THE OPERATING CONTENTS

11

DETERMINATION UNIT, IS WHAT MAKES A DETERMINATION

12

AS -- USING THE FINGER HISTORY TO DETERMINE WHETHER

13

OR NOT -- WHAT KIND OF MOTION IS BEING PROSCRIBED,

14

WHETHER IT IS A SCROLL OR A GESTURE OPERATION.
SO YOU CAN SEE HERE THE GESTURE OPERATION

15
16

MOVES ONE FINGER, THE UNIT DETERMINES THAT A MAP

17

SCROLLING OPERATION IS INPUT, AND THEN USING TWO

18

FINGERS, IT SHOWS THAT IT WAS, IT WAS EITHER DOING

19

A SCALE, A SCALE IN OR A SCALE OUT.

20

Q

OKAY.

21

A

SO USING TWO FINGERS TO PERFORM.

22

Q

ALL RIGHT.

23

SIR?

24

A

25

CONTAINS A SERIES OF ELEMENTS AS WELL.

CAN WE GO TO THE NEXT LIMITATION,

SO THE, THE MAP OPERATIONS PROCESSING UNIT
THE

2906

1

REQUIREMENT -- OR THE CLAIM ELEMENT HERE SAYS

2

ISSUING AT LEAST ONE SCROLL OR GESTURE CALL BASED

3

ON INVOKING THE SCROLL OR GESTURE OPERATION.

4

SO WE CAN SEE HERE THAT ELEMENT 48, THE

5

SCROLL PROCESSING UNIT, IS ACTUALLY THE UNIT THAT

6

MAKES -- THAT IS FED BY THE OPERATING CONTENTS OF

7

THE DETERMINATION UNIT, AND THEN CREATES THE --

8

PERFORMS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN TERMS OF A

9

SCROLL.

10

Q

OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

AND THE NEXT LIMITATION,

11

SIR, WOULD YOU TAKE US THROUGH THAT?

12

A

13

OTHER UNITS ON HERE, TOO, THAT AREN'T HIGHLIGHTED,

14

BUT THE COMPRESSION PROCESSING UNIT 42 AND

15

COMPRESSION PROCESSING UNIT 44 ARE THE UNITS THAT

16

PERFORM THE SCROLLING OPERATION, YEAH, THE

17

SCROLLING -- I'M SORRY, THE SCALING OPERATION.

18

MISSPOKE.

CAN WE GO BACK A SLIDE.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF

I

SO, YEAH, SO THAT LIMITATION HAS BEEN

19
20

MET.

21

Q

22

SIR.

23

PLEASE?

24

A

25

PROCESSING UNIT HAS DONE, THE IMAGE GENERATION UNIT

OKAY.

GREAT.

LET'S TURN TO THE NEXT ONE,

CAN YOU TAKE US THROUGH THAT LIMITATION,

SO BASED UPON WHAT THE MAP OPERATIONS

2907

1

RECEIVES THAT, THAT INPUT AND PERFORMS -- SENDS IT

2

TO THE DISPLAY UNIT, WHICH THEN UPDATES THE DISPLAY

3

ON THE E-BOOK ITSELF.

4

Q

OKAY.

5

A

SO THERE'S A SCROLL BAR THAT SHOWS, THAT

6

DEMONSTRATES THE SCROLL OPERATION.

7

LIMITATION IS MET.

8

Q

9

RESPECT TO NOMURA.

OKAY.

I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE MOTION.

SO THAT

AND LET'S FINISH THE LAST SLIDE WITH

10

A

SO, AGAIN, SIMILARLY TO THE WAY THAT THE

11

SCROLL OPERATION WAS, WAS MET, THE SYSTEM ALSO

12

RESPONDS TO A GESTURE CALL BY PASSING THE

13

INFORMATION TO THE IMAGE GENERATION UNIT WHICH GOES

14

TO THE DISPLAY UNIT WHICH UPDATES THE E-BOOK.

15

Q

16

RESPECT -- ARE ALL THE LIMITATIONS OF CLAIM 8 OF

17

THE 195 -- '915 PATENT FOUND IN NOMURA?

18

A

YES, THEY ARE.

19

Q

AND WHAT DOES THAT LEAD YOU TO CONCLUDE?

20

A

WHAT THAT MEANS IS BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT

21

ALL OF THE CLAIM LIMITATIONS ARE COVERED BY NOMURA,

22

OR THAT IT ANTICIPATES OR RENDERS OBVIOUS, OR

23

INVALIDATES, RATHER, THE '915 PATENT BY WHAT'S

24

REFERRED TO AS ANTICIPATION, MEANING THAT ONE

25

SOURCE ENCOMPASSES ALL OF THE CLAIM ELEMENTS.

OKAY.

NOW, IN YOUR OPINION, SIR, WITH

2908

1

Q

2

DIDN'T MISS IT, WHAT WAS YOUR CONCLUSION WITH

3

RESPECT TO DIAMONDTOUCH RUNNING FRACTAL ZOOM

4

COMPARED TO CLAIM 8 OF THE '915 PATENT?

5

A

6

CLAIM ELEMENTS OF CLAIM 8, AND, THEREFORE,

7

INVALIDATES CLAIM 8 AS WELL.

8

Q

9

REFERENCE, IF I HAVE SUCCESS BRINGING IT UP HERE

10

AND WHAT CONCLUSION, SIR, JUST TO MAKE SURE I

LIKE NOMURA, DIAMONDTOUCH COVERS ALL OF THE

I JUST WANT TO SPEND A MOMENT ON A THIRD

HERE.

11

JUST A SENTENCE OR TWO, SIR, ABOUT WHAT

12

THE HAN SYSTEM WAS?

13

A

14

AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY AND HE CREATED A DEVICE, NOT

15

ENTIRELY DISSIMILAR FROM THE DIAMONDTOUCH SYSTEM,

16

BUT IT'S A USER INTERFACE, LARGE SCALE USER

17

INTERFACE THAT RESPONDS TO TOUCH INPUT.

18

THERE'S A, A FILM HERE THAT SHOWS EXACTLY WHAT THAT

19

SYSTEM DOES.

20

Q

21

MIND, LET'S SHOW A VERY SHORT PORTION OF THE HAN

22

VIDEO.

SURE.

OKAY.

JEFFERSON HAN WAS A RESEARCH SCIENTIST

AND

AND I THINK JUST TO BRING IT BACK TO

23

CAN YOU PUT THAT UP, PLEASE.

24

(WHEREUPON, A VIDEOTAPE WAS PLAYED IN

25

OPEN COURT OFF THE RECORD.)

2909

1

MR. DEFRANCO:

2

THE COURT:

3

OKAY.

WHAT'S THE NUMBER ON THAT

VIDEO, PLEASE?

4

MR. DEFRANCO:

5

THAT INTO EVIDENCE.

6

YOUR HONOR, WE WOULD OFFER

556.

7

THE COURT:

THAT IS GOING TO BE EXHIBIT DX

ALL RIGHT.

8

PENDING THE STIPULATION.

9

ADMITTED RIGHT NOW UNLESS THERE'S A STIPULATION ON

10

THE VIDEO.

OKAY.

THAT'LL BE
SO IT'S NOT

SO I'LL HOLD THAT.

11

MR. DEFRANCO:

12

THE COURT:

YES, YOUR HONOR.

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

13

BY MR. DEFRANCO:

14

Q

15

'915 PATENT WITH RESPECT TO THE HAN VIDEO, SIR?

16

A

17

READABLE -- A COMPUTER THAT HAS INSTRUCTIONS IN IT

18

THAT PERFORM VARIOUS OPERATIONS.

19

RECEIVES INPUTS, AS YOU CAN SEE WHEN HE WAS

20

DEMONSTRATING THE SYSTEM, IT RECEIVES INPUTS IN THE

21

FORM OF SINGLE INPUT SCROLLS, MULTI INPUT ZOOMING

22

OPERATIONS.

23

NOT THE EVENT OBJECT INVOKES A SCROLL BECAUSE IT

24

RECORDS THOSE EVENTS IN AN EVENT OBJECT.

25

DETERMINES BY DISTINGUISHING WHETHER IT'S A SINGLE

BRIEFLY, CAN YOU WALK THROUGH CLAIM 8 OF THE

SO THE HAN DEMONSTRATION SHOWS A MACHINE

IT'S SHOWN IT

IT CREATES -- IT DETERMINES WHETHER OR

IT

2910

1

POINT OR MULTIPOINT.

2

IT THEN ISSUES A SCROLL OR GESTURE CALL

3

BASED ON THE DETERMINATION IT MADE AND THEN UPDATES

4

THE SCREEN TO REFLECT WHAT THE USER HAD DONE WITH

5

THE SINGLE OR MULTITOUCH INPUTS.

6

Q

7

INFRINGEMENT ISSUES FOR JUST A MOMENT.

OKAY.

8
9

LET'S TALK ABOUT NON-INFRINGEMENT,

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT CLAIM ELEMENT D IS
ABOUT AGAIN IN THIS CLAIM.

10

A

SO CLAIM ELEMENT D HAS TO DO WITH DETERMINING

11

WHETHER THE EVENT OBJECT INVOKES A SCROLL BY

12

DISTINGUISH -- OR A GESTURE BY DISTINGUISHING

13

BETWEEN ONE POINT OR MULTIPOINT.

14

AND IT'S -- THE EVENT OBJECT IS --

15

INVOKES THE SCROLL OR GESTURE OPERATION.

16

AN INVOCATION OF THE SCROLL OR GESTURE OPERATION BY

17

THE EVENT OBJECT.

18

Q

19

OF INVOKE AS IT'S TO BE USED IN THIS CASE?

20

A

21

MEAN TO CAUSE, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT'S THE COURT'S

22

CONSTRUCTION FOR THE TERM "INVOKE."

23

Q

24
25

THERE'S

WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE DEFINITION

SO INVOKE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, HAS COME TO

OKAY.

AND -MR. JACOBS:

YOUR HONOR, THAT'S AN

INCOMPLETE RECITATION OF THE COURT'S CLAIM

2911

1

CONSTRUCTION.

2
3

THE COURT:

OVERRULED.

YOU'LL HAVE A

CHANCE ON CROSS.

4

GO AHEAD.

5

BY MR. DEFRANCO:

6

Q

7

PRODUCTS HAVE THAT FEATURE, SIR?

8

A

9

SLIDE ON THIS, BUT THE ACCUSED PRODUCTS OPERATE

10

OKAY.

NO.

IN YOUR OPINION, DO THE ACCUSED

THE ACCUSED PRODUCTS, I THINK THERE'S A

MORE ALONG THE LINES LIKE THIS.

11

WE HEARD THE OTHER DAY DR. SINGH TALK

12

ABOUT THE WEB VIEW OBJECT AND THAT THE WEB VIEW

13

OBJECT RELIED -- USES THE DATA THAT IS STORED IN

14

THE MOTION EVENT OBJECT TO MAKE A DETERMINATION AS

15

TO WHETHER ONE TOUCH OR MULTIPLE TOUCHES HAD

16

OCCURRED.

17

AND IF ONE USES -- IT TAKES A DIFFERENT

18

PATH THROUGH THE CODE, IN ORDER TO SEE IF ONE TOUCH

19

OR MULTITOUCH HAD BEEN USED.

20

THE POINT IS THAT THE MOTION EVENT OBJECT

21

IS NOT THE CAUSER OF THIS DETERMINATION AS TO

22

WHETHER OR NOT ONE TOUCH OR MULTIPLE TOUCHES HAVE

23

OCCURRED.

24
25

THE MOTION OF THAT OBJECT THAT CONTAINS
THE DATA, WHICH IS THEN USED BY THE WEB VIEW OBJECT

2912

1

IN ORDER TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION.

2

Q

3

TWO FINGER SCROLLING.

4

YOU'VE CONCLUDED WITH RESPECT TO TWO-FINGER

5

SCROLLING IN SOME OF THE SAMSUNG PRODUCTS THAT YOU

6

ANALYZED?

7

A

8

THE OPPORTUNITY, THAT I'VE ANALYZED, WHICH ARE THE

9

ACCUSED PRODUCTS IN THIS MATTER, THE PRODUCTS DO

OKAY.

AND THEN THERE'S BEEN SOME TALK ABOUT
WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT

SO ON SOME OF THE SAMSUNG PRODUCTS THAT I HAD

10

PERFORM MULTIPOINT SCROLLING, IN OTHER WORDS, BEING

11

ABLE TO SCROLL A DEVICE USING MULTIPLE POINTS.

12

AGAIN, THE PATENT CALLS FOR

13

DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN A MULTIPOINT SCROLL AND A

14

SINGLE -- I MEAN, A MULTIPOINT SCALE AND A SINGLE

15

POINT SCROLL.
WHAT I WAS ABLE -- WHAT I'VE OBSERVED IS

16
17

THAT SOME OF THE DEVICES DO PERFORM MULTIPOINT

18

SCROLLING WHICH, AGAIN, IS CONTRARY TO THE WAY THE

19

PATENT, THE WAY THE PATENT CLAIMS OPERATE.

20

Q

21

ABOUT THE '163 PATENT, OKAY?

22

A

SURE.

23

Q

I WANT TO MOVE AHEAD A LITTLE BIT.

24

THIS IS INTRODUCTORY SLIDE.

25

PRIOR ART?

OKAY.

LET'S SHIFT GEARS NOW AND LET'S TALK

I KNOW

YOU'VE GOT THE SAME

2913

1

A

AGAIN, SAME PRIOR ART, YES, TO THE RIGHT.

2

Q

THERE'S BEEN QUITE A BIT OF DISCUSSION OF

3

LAUNCHTILE IN THIS CASE.

4

ENOUGH ABOUT THAT.

5

THE ASSERTED CLAIM IN THE '163 PATENT.

6

CLAIM 50, IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?

7

A

8

PATENT.

9

Q

I THINK WE'VE HEARD

SO WHY DON'T WE GO STRAIGHT TO
THAT'S

CLAIM 50 IS THE ASSERTED CLAIM IN THE '163

WHY DON'T WE DO THIS.

WHY DON'T WE -- LET'S

10

START WITH THE FIRST ELEMENT AND I WILL MOVE

11

THROUGH THE SLIDES AS YOU DESCRIBE WHERE YOU

12

BELIEVE THE ELEMENT AT ISSUE IS FOUND IN CLAIM 50.

13

ARE YOU WITH ME?

14

A

15

A PORTABLE ELECTRONIC DEVICE WHICH THE LAUNCHTILE

16

SYSTEM RUNNING ON THIS HEWLETT-PACKARD IPAQ

17

HANDHELD UNIT PERFORMS.

18

A PROCESSOR, A TOUCH SENSITIVE SCREEN, MEMORY, AND

19

A SERIES OF PROGRAMS AND THOSE PROGRAMS CONTAIN

20

INSTRUCTIONS WHICH ALLOW THE PROGRAM TO DO WHAT

21

IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO.

OKAY.

SO THE FIRST ELEMENT IS OF -- DESCRIBES

IT'S A CROSS -- IT'S WITH

SO THAT CLAIM ELEMENT IS MET.

22

SO THE SECOND PART OF CLAIM 50 SAYS

23

DISPLAYING AT LEAST A PORTION OF A STRUCTURED

24

ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT.

25

WHAT'S REFERRED TO THERE, IN LAUNCHTILE,

2914

1

THE STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT IS WHAT

2

DR. BEDERSON REFERRED TO AS THE INTERACTIVE ZOOM

3

SPACE.

4

COLLECTION OF 36 TILES THAT DR. BEDERSON TALKED

5

ABOUT, AND THOSE 36 TILES ARE AN INTERACTIVE ZOOM

6

SPACE THAT IS THE STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT OF

7

THE REQUIREMENT.

THAT INTERACTIVE ZOOM SPACE IS THAT

8
9

IF YOU SEE HERE, WHAT IT ALLOWS IS FOR
THE IDENTIFICATION OF A FIRST BOX IN THAT -- IN A

10

PLURALITY OF BOXES OF CONTENT.

11

Q

OKAY.

12

A

SO THE -- THE PATENT REQUIRES THAT THE SYSTEM

13

BE ABLE TO DETECT A FIRST GESTURE AT THE LOCATION

14

DISPLAYED ON THE -- AT A LOCATION DISPLAYED ON THE

15

STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT FOR DETERMINING A

16

FIRST BOX IN THE PLURALITY OF BOXES LOCATED AT THAT

17

LOCATION.

18

AND THE NEXT LIMITATION, SIR?

SO, IN OTHER WORDS, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE,

19

THE USER IS ABOUT TO SELECT AN AREA WITHIN THAT BOX

20

OF FOUR, BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THAT THE LAUNCHTILE

21

IS ORGANIZED IS A SERIES OF QUAD TILES, OR

22

TWO-BY-TWO ELEMENTS, AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THE

23

STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT, OR THE INTERACTIVE

24

ZOOM SPACE, IS TRANSLATED AND ENLARGED, AND WE'LL

25

SEE THAT IN THE NEXT CLAIM ELEMENT.

THIS MEANS

2915

1

THIS ONE HAS BEEN MET.

2

SO HERE WE SEE THE STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC

3

DOCUMENT, THE INTERACTIVE ZOOM SPACE IS NOW

4

TRANSLATED, MEANING SCROLLED, AND ENLARGED OR

5

CENTERED, CENTERED AND ENLARGED SO THAT WE ENLARGE

6

THAT, THAT FIRST BOX OF CONTENT WITHIN THAT

7

STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT.

8

AND THAT'S WHAT'S SHOWN HERE.

THE

9

FOUR -- THAT QUAD TILE, THOSE FOUR TILES, ARE NOW

10

SELECTED AND ENLARGED.

11

MET.

12

Q

AND THE NEXT LIMITATION, SIR?

13

A

SO THE NEXT LIMITATION, THIS IS AN IMPORTANT

14

ONE, THE NEXT LIMITATION IS AFTER THE FIRST BOX IS

15

ENLARGED, DETECTING A SECOND BOX WHICH IS NOT THAT

16

FIRST BOX.

17

SO THAT CLAIM ELEMENT IS

AND THAT SECOND GESTURE NOW, YOU CAN SEE

18

IT BEING DONE HERE, THE USER IS SELECTING THAT

19

SECOND BOX OTHER THAN THE FIRST BOX.

20

AND SO THE -- ONCE THE FIRST BOX HAS BEEN

21

ENLARGED, NOW I'M SELECTING A SECOND BOX, WHICH IS

22

THIS UPPER LEFT-HAND QUADRANT HERE.

23

ELEMENT IS MET.

24

Q

25

SIR?

OKAY.

SO THAT

AND THEN FINALLY THE LAST LIMITATION,

2916

1

A

AND THEN TRANSLATING AND ENLARGING, SO WHAT

2

HAPPENS IS THE SELECTION OF THAT SECOND BOX ALLOWS

3

FOR IT, FOR THE UNIT TO BE TRANSLATED AND CENTERED

4

ON THE DISPLAY SCREEN, AND THAT'S WHAT THE LAST

5

CLAIM ELEMENT MEANS, SO THAT THE SECOND BOX IS

6

CENTERED AND TRANSLATED.

7

SO, ONCE AGAIN, I'VE GONE FROM THE

8

STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT, AND I SELECTED A

9

SPACE WITHIN THE STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT,

10

AND THEN A FINER SPACE WITHIN THE STRUCTURED

11

ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT THAT ORIGINATED WITH THE TILES

12

OF 36.

13

Q

14

WHAT'S KNOWN AS XNAV RUNNING ON THE IPAQ AND THE

15

SOURCE CODE?

16

A

I HAVE.

17

Q

AND GENERALLY, CAN YOU TELL US, WHAT'S YOUR

18

CONCLUSION AS TO WHETHER LAUNCHTILE AND XNAV ON THE

19

IPAQ INVALIDATE CLAIM 50 OF THE '163 PATENT?

20

A

21

LAUNCHTILE.

22

IT RUNS ON A DIFFERENT SET OF HARDWARE, A SONY

23

DEVICE THAT'S A DIFFERENT SET OF HARDWARE.

24

OPERATED IT.

25

AND, SIR, HAVE YOU ALSO LOOKED AT AND ANALYZED

I HAVE.

SO XNAV IS A PRODUCT THAT IS DERIVED FROM
WE'VE SEEN THE SOURCE CODE FOR XNAV.

I'VE

AND IT PERFORMS ESSENTIALLY IDENTICAL

2917

1

FUNCTIONS TO THE LAUNCHTILE SYSTEM.

2

SO IT TOO INVALIDATES.

3

Q

ALL RIGHT.

I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO ANOTHER

4

REFERENCE NOW, AND WE HAVE A -- I'VE ASKED THAT A

5

SUMMARY SLIDE BE PREPARED.

6

PATENT.

7

PATENT IN YOUR BINDER THERE, SIR?

8

AS EXHIBIT 561 SOME DOCUMENTATION RELATING TO

9

AGNETTA.

THIS IS THE AGNETTA

IT'S THE '632 PATENT.

DO YOU SEE THAT
YOU SHOULD HAVE

DO YOU SEE THAT?

10

A

I DO.

11

Q

AND THERE'S A -- IS THERE A PROVISIONAL

12

APPLICATION IN THE FRONT OF EXHIBIT 561 AND IT'S

13

THE '632 PATENT ITSELF IN THE BACK?

14

A

15
16

THERE IS A PROVISIONAL APPLICATION, YES.
MR. DEFRANCO:

YOUR HONOR, WE WOULD MOVE

FOR EXHIBIT DX 561 INTO THE RECORD.

17

MR. JACOBS:

NO OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

18

THE COURT:

19

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

20

561, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

21

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

22

EVIDENCE.)

23

MR. DEFRANCO:

ALL RIGHT.

OKAY.

IT'S ADMITTED.

WHAT YOU WANT TO DO

24

SIR, RATHER THAN WALKING THROUGH -- BY THE WAY, IS

25

THIS SOMEWHAT -- IN THE CONSTRUCT OF WHAT'S SHOWN

2918

1

IN THIS PATENT, IS IT SIMILAR SOMEWHAT TO

2

LAUNCHTILE?

3

A

4

CONFIGURATION --

5

Q

AND LET ME JUST JUMP IN --

6

A

SURE.

7

Q

-- IN THE INTEREST OF TIME.

8

HERE IS WE PUT THE CLAIMS SIDE BY SIDE WITH ONE

9

FIGURE FROM THAT PATENT, AND RATHER THAN TAKE YOU

IT IS SIMILAR TO LAUNCHTILE.

THE -- THIS

WHAT I'VE DONE

10

THROUGH EACH ELEMENT ONE SLIDE AT A TIME, COULD YOU

11

JUST DESCRIBE FOR US GENERALLY WHERE IN YOUR

12

OPINION THE LIMITATIONS IN CLAIM 50 OF THE '163

13

PATENT ARE FOUND IN THE AGNETTA REFERENCE, SIR?

14

A

15

DIRECTED TO A PORTABLE ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT WITH

16

MEMORY AND PROCESSORS AND COMPUTER INSTRUCTIONS.

17

SO 50A AND 50B ARE MET.

18

SURE.

SO THE AGNETTA REFERENCE AGAIN IS

50C IS MET BECAUSE WHAT IT DOES --

19

BECAUSE THE STRUCTURED ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT WAS

20

SIMILAR TO LAUNCHTILE IS WHAT IS REFERRED TO HERE

21

AS A TILE SPACE WHICH, AGAIN, PROVIDES INSIGHT INTO

22

THE INFORMATION AND CONTENT THAT IS ON THE

23

PARTICULAR ELECTRONIC DEVICE.

24
25

THE USER CAN SELECT ANY OF THOSE TILES.
ONCE THOSE TILES -- ANY TILE THAT IS SELECTED IS

2919

1

ENLARGED AND CENTERED, SO THAT MEANS THAT CLAIM 50D

2

AND E ARE MET, AND F FOR THAT MATTER.

3

AND IN ADDITION, ONCE THAT -- ONCE THE

4

TILE HAS BEEN ENLARGED AND CENTERED, THE ADJACENT

5

TILES AROUND IT ARE AVAILABLE, THE USER THEN HAS

6

THE OPPORTUNITY TO SELECT THOSE ADJACENT TILES,

7

WHICH THAT TILE WILL NOW BE CENTERED AND ENLARGED

8

AS WELL.

9

PATENT PERFORMS THE SAME OPERATIONS AND SAME

SO MUCH LIKE LAUNCHTILE, THE AGNETTA

10

FUNCTIONS.

11

Q

12

OF CLAIM 50 OF THE '163 PATENT IN VIEW OF THE

13

AGNETTA REFERENCE, SIR?

14

A

15

CLAIM 50 BECAUSE IT MEETS ALL THE CLAIM

16

LIMITATIONS.

17

Q

18

IT SHOULD BE IN YOUR BINDER AGAIN.

19

PATENT.

20

DX 1081.

AND WHAT IS YOUR YOUR OPINION OF THE VALIDITY

I BELIEVE THE AGNETTA REFERENCE INVALIDATES

WE HAVE ONE MORE TO DO, THE ROBBINS PATENT.

DO YOU SEE THAT THERE, SIR?

21

IT'S '349
IT'S EXHIBIT

AND, RYAN, WHILE WE'RE DOING THAT, CAN

22

YOU PLEASE PUT UP THE SUMMARY SLIDE FOR THAT

23

REFERENCE.

24

A

25

OR ROBBINS PATENT.

I DO.

I SEE EXHIBIT 1081 AND IT IS THE '349

2920

1

Q

IS THAT THE ROBBINS PATENT THAT YOU ANALYZED

2

IN YOUR WORK IN THIS CASE?

3

A

IT IS.

4
5

MR. DEFRANCO:

YOUR HONOR, WE WOULD MOVE

EXHIBIT DX 1081 INTO EVIDENCE, PLEASE.

6

THE COURT:

7

MR. JACOBS:

8

THE COURT:

9

MR. JACOBS:

ANY OBJECTION?
IS THAT THE PATENT?
YES, IT IS.
NO OBJECTION.

10

THE COURT:

IT'S ADMITTED.

11

(WHEREUPON, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER

12

1081, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED FOR

13

IDENTIFICATION, WAS ADMITTED INTO

14

EVIDENCE.)

15

THE COURT:

GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

16

BY MR. DEFRANCO:

17

Q

18

WOULD YOU PLEASE DO THE SAME.

19

ELEMENT IN CLAIM 50 OF THE '163 PATENT AND TELL US

20

WHERE IN YOUR OPINION THAT IS FOUND IN THE ROBBINS

21

'349 PRIOR ART PATENT.

22

A

23

PATENT.

24

DEVICES.

25

UNDERNEATH IT.

MR. GRAY, ONE MORE TIME.

WE'RE ALMOST DONE.
TAKE US THROUGH EACH

SO THE ROBBINS PATENT, AGAIN, IS A ZOOM
IT IS DIRECTED TO PORTABLE ELECTRONIC
AGAIN, THERE'S A MAP APPLICATION
THE ROBBINS PATENT AGAIN BEING

2921

1

DIRECTED TO A PORTABLE ELECTRONIC DOCUMENT HAS

2

PROCESSOR AND A TOUCHSCREEN AND A VARIETY -- AND

3

MEMORY AND INSTRUCTIONS THAT PERFORM VARIOUS

4

OPERATIONS.

5

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WHAT HAPPENS IS,

6

IN THIS EXAMPLE THAT'S SHOWN HERE, THE SCREEN IS

7

DIVIDED INTO THREE-BY-THREE MATRIX THAT OVERLAPS,

8

AND WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THAT

9

OVERLAPS.

10

THE USER THEN CAN SELECT ANY OF THOSE

11

SEGMENTS AND THOSE SEGMENTS THEN BECOME CENTERED

12

AND ENLARGED ON THE DISPLAY SCREEN.

13

IF YOU NOTICE ON THE -- IF YOU TAKE THE

14

UPPER RIGHT-HAND SEGMENT, THERE'S A SMALL RECTANGLE

15

TO THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THAT SEGMENT.

16

SELECTION OF THAT SEGMENT NOW ALLOWS THE, THE USER

17

INTERFACE TO MOVE TO THE ADJACENT SEGMENT AND HAVE

18

THAT BE CENTERED AND ENLARGED AS WELL.

19

THE

SO THE PATENT MEETS THE LIMITATIONS OF

20

THE FIRST PART OF 50A AND B BECAUSE IT IS A

21

STRUCTURED -- IT'S A PORTABLE ELECTRONIC DEVICE.

22

IT ALLOWS FOR THE ENLARGEMENT OF THE DOCUMENTS,

23

THAT'S 50C.

24

A SECOND SPACE, AND THEN THE ENLARGEMENT AND

25

CENTERING OF THAT.

IT ALLOWS FOR SELECTION OF THE SECOND,

SO IT MEETS ALL THE LIMITATIONS

2922

1

OF THE CLAIM AS WELL.

2

Q

3

OF THIS REFERENCE?

4

A

5

OF THE CLAIM LIMITATIONS OF '163, CLAIM 50, AND

6

CONSEQUENTLY IS -- INVALIDATES IT AS WELL.

7

Q

8

NON-INFRINGEMENT ISSUE, YOU'VE HEARD THE TERM

9

"SUBSTANTIALLY CENTERED."

AND, IN YOUR VIEW, IS CLAIM 50 INVALID IN VIEW

AGAIN, ROBBINS AS WELL, THIS CLAIM COVERS ALL

SHIFTING GEARS BRIEFLY TO INFRINGEMENT,

10

A

11

FOR EXAMPLE, REFERS TO SOMETHING BEING

12

SUBSTANTIALLY CENTERED.

13

Q

AND WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON THAT, SIR?

14

A

IN MY OPINION, THE TERM "SUBSTANTIALLY

15

CENTERED" IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM.

16

A PATENT DOES IS PROVIDE INFORMATION TO AN ENGINEER

17

TO ALLOW THEM TO UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE OF THE PATENT

18

SO THAT THEY CAN AVOID INFRINGING THE PATENT.

19

RIGHT.

IS THAT CORRECT?

ONE OF THE CLAIM ELEMENTS HERE, 50F,

I -- PART OF WHAT

I DON'T KNOW WHEN SOMETHING IS

20

SUBSTANTIALLY CENTER.

21

FULLY CENTERED OR NOT CENTERED, BUT "SUBSTANTIALLY

22

CENTERED" IS AMBIGUOUS.

23

I KNOW WHEN SOMETHING IS

HOW WOULD A PATENT -- HOW WOULD AN

24

ENGINEER UNDERSTAND HOW TO MAKE SOMETHING

25

SUBSTANTIALLY CENTERED OR NOT?

SO IN MY OPINION,

2923

1

"SUBSTANTIALLY CENTERED" IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM.

2

Q

3

DETERMINING A FIRST BOX IN THE PLURALITY OF BOXES

4

AT THE LOCATION OF THE FIRST GESTURE, CAN YOU GIVE

5

US YOUR OPINION AS IT RELATES TO INFRINGEMENT ON

6

THAT ELEMENT?

7

A

8

PLURALITY OF BOXES AT THE LOCATION OF THE FIRST

9

GESTURE.

10

AND, FINALLY, SIR, WITH RESPECT TO ELEMENT E,

AGAIN, 50E TALKS ABOUT IDENTIFYING A BOX IN

WHAT THAT SEEMS TO INTEND, AT LEAST THE

11

WAY I READ THIS CLAIM THE FIRST TIME I READ IT, WAS

12

THAT THERE ARE A PLURALITY OF BOXES.

13

IF YOU THINK ABOUT NESTED BOXES WHERE

14

THERE ARE MULTIPLE BOXES THAT ARE NESTED AND THE

15

USER SELECTS A BOX OR A SPACE, SOME LOCATION WITHIN

16

THAT NESTED BOX, WHAT HAPPENS IS THE SYSTEM WOULD

17

THEN NEED TO DETERMINE WHICH ONE OF THOSE NESTED

18

BOXES THE USER WAS ACTUALLY INTENDING TO HAVE

19

CENTERED AND ENLARGED.

20

SIMILARLY TO THE WAY LAUNCHTILE WORKS.

21

IF YOU RECALL LAUNCHTILE, YOU CAN SELECT ANY ONE OF

22

THE FOUR IN THE QUAD TILES AND THAT WHOLE QUAD TILE

23

GETS ENLARGED AND CENTERED.

24
25

AGAIN, I'M NOT SEEING ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL
SUPPLIED, OR ANYTHING IN ANY OF THE REPORTS THAT

2924

1

INDICATE HOW THE ACCUSED PRODUCTS MEET THE

2

LIMITATION OF SELECTING A -- SOMETHING IN A

3

PLURALITY OF BOXES.

4
5

MR. DEFRANCO:

THE COURT:
4:20.

THANK YOU,

ALL RIGHT.

THE TIME IS NOW

GO AHEAD, PLEASE, WITH ANY CROSS.

8
9

MY TIME IS UP.

SIR.

6
7

SO, AGAIN, I'M NOT SEEING IT.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. JACOBS:

10

Q

GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. GRAY.

11

A

GOOD AFTERNOON.

12

Q

NOW, YOUR TESTIMONY ON THE SUBJECT OF

13

INVALIDITY WAS PREMISED ON THE IDEA OF

14

ANTICIPATION; CORRECT, SIR?

15

A

THAT'S CORRECT.

16

Q

AND ANTICIPATION IS ALL YOU SPOKE TO; CORRECT?

17

A

THAT'S CORRECT.

18

Q

AND ANTICIPATION REQUIRES THAT EVERY ELEMENT,

19

THE JURY HAS HEARD THIS MANTRA, EVERY ELEMENT OF

20

THE CLAIM BE PRESENT IN THE PROPOSED INVALIDATING

21

REFERENCE; CORRECT, SIR?

22

A

THAT'S CORRECT.

23

Q

AND SO IF THE JURY --

24

A

WELL, WITH A POSSIBLE EXCEPTION THERE.

25

EITHER -- IT IS EITHER COVERED OR IS INHERENTLY IN

IT IS

2925

1

THE REFERENCE.

2

Q

3

COMES TO INVALIDITY, IF ANY ELEMENT OF THE CLAIM IS

4

NOT PRESENT IN THE PROPOSED INVALIDATING REFERENCE,

5

THEN YOUR OPINION SHOULD BE REJECTED; CORRECT, SIR?

6

A

7

ELEMENT THAT IS INHERENT OR IMPLIED, THAT'S MY

8

UNDERSTANDING.

9

Q

AND SO IF THE JURY FINDS THAT IN -- WHEN IT

AGAIN, WITH THE PROVISO THAT IF IT IS AN

OTHERWISE YOU AGREE WITH ME, YOUR OPINION

10

RISES AND FALLS ON THE IDEA OF -- THERE'S NO CLOSE

11

HERE, YOU EITHER GOT IT, EVERY ELEMENT IS PRESENT,

12

OR YOU DON'T.

13

A

14

INHERENT AS IS REQUIRED.

15

Q

16

QUESTION ABOUT YOUR ROLE IN LITIGATION SUPPORT OVER

17

THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, AND YOU SAID YOU SPENT SOME

18

TIME DOING LITIGATION SUPPORT.

CORRECT, SIR?

EITHER EVERY ELEMENT IS PRESENT OR IT IS

NOW, I LISTENED CAREFULLY TO THE ANSWER TO THE

WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY "SOME TIME," SIR?

19
20

A

WELL, ACTUALLY SINCE, STARTING IN 1984, I DID

21

SOME LITIGATION SUPPORT, AND THROUGHOUT MY CAREER

22

AS AN ENGINEER, I PERIODICALLY DID LITIGATION

23

SUPPORT ASSIGNMENTS.

24

TIME, SINCE 1984.

25

Q

SO IT'S BEEN OVER A LONG

BUT OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, ALMOST ALL

1
2
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTERS

3
4
5
6

WE, THE UNDERSIGNED OFFICIAL COURT

7

REPORTERS OF THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR

8

THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA, 280 SOUTH

9

FIRST STREET, SAN JOSE, CALIFORNIA, DO HEREBY

10
11

CERTIFY:
THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT,

12

CERTIFICATE INCLUSIVE, CONSTITUTES A TRUE, FULL AND

13

CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF OUR SHORTHAND NOTES TAKEN AS

14

SUCH OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS OF THE PROCEEDINGS

15

HEREINBEFORE ENTITLED AND REDUCED BY COMPUTER-AIDED

16

TRANSCRIPTION TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY.

17
18
19

/S/
_____________________________
LEE-ANNE SHORTRIDGE, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 9595

20
21
22

/S/
______________________________
IRENE RODRIGUEZ, CSR, CRR
CERTIFICATE NUMBER 8074

23
24
DATED:
25

AUGUST 15, 2012